General Debate 10 February 2012

February 10th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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163 Responses to “General Debate 10 February 2012”

  1. Keeping Stock (10,086 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think that The Rock’s plan to pay for some bloke to spring a divorce on his wife on Valentine’s Day is in the worst possible taste?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/crossing-line.html

    Having been through it, I can assure The Rock that there’s nothing funny at all about divorce…

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  2. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    New political party?
    Pirate Party’s position on Megaupload case
    arrrg
    http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/megaupload-interest-a-mixed-blessing-for-pirate-party
    The Pirate Party of New Zealand (PPNZ) says it is wary that the Megaupload controversy might generate superficial interest in the party’s policies and attract approaches from insufficiently committed new members.
    http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/special/pirate-partys-position-on-megaupload-case
    NZ law and rights of NZ citizens who legally stored material on Megaupload’s servers should have been taken into account, says party

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  3. RF (1,260 comments) says:

    What happened Rachel ??? Just proves that she should be seen… From a distance.. But not heard.

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  4. Manolo (13,303 comments) says:

    A business peronality has died: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6395838/Infratil-founder-Lloyd-Morrison-dies

    R.I.P. Lloyd Morrison.

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,086 comments) says:

    Mike Hosking: “Rachel Hunter and the English language are not closely connected”

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  6. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (338 comments) says:

    Outside the inquiry, Bernie Monk, spokesman for some Pike families, said it was heartbreaking to hear the mine’s problems and he had shed tears listening to Reece.
    “Our men were relying a hell of a lot on these mine managers and designers and everything else to protect them and they were let down extremely badly,” Monk said.
    “It brought tears to my eyes sometimes just to hear some of the things that they had to put up with and they’ve been sadly let down.”

    It may be rather insensitive to mention again evidence which was touched on earlier and which Bernie Monk condemned – being that cigarette butts had been found in the mine where they should not be. Along with plastic bags on gas metres?

    While, very under-standably, Bernie Monk will not have anything unfavourable said about the 29 dead men, Monk does seem to simplify things so that mine management and designers are to be seen at the other end of the scale.

    But I believe it is still fair to ask – Just how many of the 29 men were smokers?
    Maybe none.

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  7. Pete George (22,727 comments) says:

    From an unlikely beginning in an unlikely place a discussion developed yesterday that illustrates how entrenched the culture of violence is in New Zealand.

    It began on a Dim Post about Piri Weepu and breast and bottle feeding babies, moved to male bonding, and then a couple of quips.

    I’ve commented more here: Have you heard the one about men thrashing children?

    New Zealand’s culture of violence is more widespread and embedded than may people care to think.

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  8. flipper (3,527 comments) says:

    Puzzled…
    Good points… plus cigarette lighter, and so on.

    Monk needs to button his lip. And the media could help by leaving it to the Royal Commission.
    It will be the Commission that will evaluate evidence, speculation and then ascribe blame where it considers appropriate.

    Monk’s views are understandable. But we either have a Monk determination or we have a Royal Commission comprising people who have no family connections.

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  9. david (2,531 comments) says:

    Bernie Monk just needs to STFU for a bit and let the Commission get on with its job. His constant opinionated harping night after night on the news gets up my nose in the same way as a whining mosquito in the night. He seems to have morphed from a grieving family member to an expert commenter on all matters to do with mining, mine safety, methods, ventilation, underground techniques and the personal abilities of everyone connected with Pike River and the disaster management.

    I’m over it, largely due to Bernie.

    The families should hold him responsible for single-handedly eroding the remaining sympathy of the larger population of New Zealand whose contributions they seek to spend on what appear to be ill-advised premature attempots at recovering the remains of their loved ones.

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  10. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    While NZ ‘Champion’ Sonny Bill William’s boxing entourage continue to beat their chests and proclaim SBW the ‘greatest since Ali’ … News comes to light that the fat pudding he ‘fought’ (who incredibly managed to miss all his punches by at least a metre then fell over after being hit with a punch my grandma could have thrown) is, in fact, a paid actor.
    Credibility issues there Sonny?

    The Herald sums up this embarrassing farce well-
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10784571

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  11. flipper (3,527 comments) says:

    Greens…

    In the House of “Representatives” the red-melons have two new positions in keeping with their dopey “sackcloth and ashes ” poiicies – Musterer and Deputy Musterer.

    In most western democracies (including NZ) Parliamentary political parties have “whips”. Even the Peters party has one!

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  12. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    Pete, I agree there is a cultural endorsement of violence, but some things you can joke about and some you can’t, depending on audience, context, or even whether the joke teller is generally liked by said audience. Sometimes the distinction is even less apparent than that.

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  13. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    Meanwhile Margaret Mutu again shows her lack of academic discipline by announcing that she is leading some committee on alternative governance, based on an assumption of the reason(s) for low Maori turnout in the last election. No studies or scientific polls; she just “knows” the reason is disillusionment with “pakeha” parliament!

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  14. Sofia (817 comments) says:

    And in light of evidence to date, where now are the MURDER AT PIKE RIVER accusations personally passed on to socio-sycophant Penny Bright by her correspondent Jacob Cohen?

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  15. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    That would be Saint Valentines Day.

    Another reminder that our society has it’s roots firmly in the Judeo Christian tradition.

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  16. MT_Tinman (2,983 comments) says:

    Longknives, the fat bastard would not have been employed if he could fight.

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  17. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Another claim coming up here……

    ….’The Oglala Sioux Tribe of South Dakota said it is demanding US$500 million (NZ$598m) (from brewers) in damages for the cost of health care, social services and child rehabilitation caused by chronic alcoholism on the reservation.’….

    Forget the water claim……..

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  18. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    Longknives 8.54

    Tillman gave new meaning to the phrase ‘hay makers.’ Even ‘going in for the kill’ SBW didn’t seem to appreciate that Tillman’s head remained open to the left hook. I didn’t watch it but apparently it was a ‘great’ fight and Tillman looked almost poised to throw a punch at one stage before diverting into an agricultural display of scything fresh air.

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  19. James Stephenson (2,006 comments) says:

    the Judeo Christian tradition

    That would be the tradition of re-branding pre-existing “pagan” celebrations right? Our society’s roots are in the Celtic, Saxon, Norse and Roman traditions.

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  20. Pete George (22,727 comments) says:

    adze – I know my nitpicking on the trivialisation of violence will not go down well with some people, but it’s a huge problem in our society, and most people are oblivious to how widesprea, embeded and often subconcious it is in our culture.

    The only way of dealing with it is to confront it. And to keep confronting it. I know many people aren’t comfortable with that. But many kids aren’t comfortable with being bashed, beaten, tortured and killed. It’s a problem that won’t fix iteself.

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  21. Manolo (13,303 comments) says:

    Worth a laugh: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/09/virginia-school-district-considers-ban-on-cross-dressing-students/

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  22. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    LOL there is no Israeli firsters some argue and then a septic who is Jewish and runs a small newspaper puts an edition out containing this.

    (Writing about how to deal with diverging U.S.- Israeli views on the threat from Iran, Adelson discusses ‘option three:’ “Three, give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place, and forcefully dictate that the United States’ policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies)

    http://gawker.com/5877892/newspaper-editor-israel-should-consider-assassinating-obama

    So anybody arguing against the fact that there are Israeli firsters ?

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  23. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    Celts, Saxons,Norse and Romans all became Christian.

    The Roman Empire became Christian and then so did the western world (and Asia Minor).

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  24. James Stephenson (2,006 comments) says:

    Yes kowtow, it’s just a phase we’ve been going through and are thankfully growing out of.

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  25. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    Another find that proves there were peoples here before Maori –

    Another issue of Franklin magazine E-local has just come out, with another in it’s excellent series about the original inhabitants of New Zealand – those who were here before Maori.

    Part 3 discusses how the Greeks found their way to New Zealand. In the article is a photograph of a 14 ton ancient stone Greek calendar found in Northland by a pig hunter and verified by a university in Greece. Thousands of years old. The university said, “What’s this piece doing in New Zealand”? It has the constellations and months etched on it.

    You can see image of the calendar and read article here – http://bit.ly/yplOt6

    As we meet, I have to ask [author and historian Max Hill] exactly what his central thesis is. “What the Greek people knew was absolutely mind-boggling. They knew how to measure a full year, off by only six minutes, not to mention Eratosthenes being able to calculate the span of the Earth, latitude and longitude, all by using shadows and astrolabes.” Eratosthenes had a navigator – believe it or not – named Maui. In 230 BC, 300 Greeks, Carthaginians, Egyptians and prisoners were taken on a voyage of six ships, which Max believes got as far as the Pacific, cutting through an ancient Red Sea canal known at the time as – wait for it – Havaiki. “I find it incredible that we’re told to keep quiet about the real Hawaiiki, because it might upset people,” Max sighs. “But why be quiet about it? It should be celebrated.” Celts, Carthaginians, Greeks and Phoenicians on ships spread animals, hieroglyphics and objects across the Pacific, from New Guinea to Easter Island.

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  26. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    Yeah 1600 years is quite a phase,isn’t it?

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  27. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Fletch

    Read your comment & the link….interesting & well worth the read. Raises questions about how much other info is being destroyed or suppressed in case they make the Maori claims to everything in NZ more specious.

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  28. James Stephenson (2,006 comments) says:

    It is kowtow, yes, but the Greeks were talking about the Celts in 500BC.

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  29. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    For grumpyhori, checkout US foreign aid to Israel – how does the US taxpayer feel about bankrolling this?

    “Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, having since been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel.

    Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance. In the past, Israel also had received significant economic assistance. Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving benefits not available to other countries. For example, Israel can use some U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, all U.S. foreign assistance earmarked for Israel is delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year. Most other recipients normally receive aid in installments. Congress also appropriates funds for joint U.S.-Israeli missile defense programs.”

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

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  30. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    nasska, yes. There’s a whole series of articles in e-local that we’ve been reading. If you click on ‘archives’ up the top, you can read the articles from other past issues. The December issue talks about the Stone City in the Waipoua Forest that was found in the 1980s and has been embargoed until 2063 (when, by that time, it will probably have been overgrown and destroyed by nature).

    http://bit.ly/zIE4Sq

    I wanted to check out independently the claim about “Maui” being a navigator on a Greek expedition, and yes, there are other articles that mention it. eg from 21st Century Science & Technology magazine – http://bit.ly/xWzv4M

    Around the year 232 B.C., Captain Rata and Navigator Maui set out with a flotilla of ships from Egypt in an attempt to circumnavigate the Earth.1 On the night of August 6-7, 2001, between the hours of 11 PM and 3 AM, this writer, and fellow amateur astronomer Bert Cooper, proved in principle that Captain Rata and Navigator Maui could have known and charted their location, by longitude, most of the time during that voyage.

    The Maui expedition was under the guidance of Eratosthenes, the great scientist who was also the chief librarian of the library at Alexandria. Could this voyage have demonstrated Eratosthenes’ theorem that the world was round, and measured approximately 24,500 miles in circumference? One of the navigational instruments which Maui had with him was a strange looking “calculator” that he called a tanawa; such an instrument was known, in 1492, as a torquetum.

    ‘Maui’ had a device for navigating called a ‘Tanawa’? Wow..

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  31. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    James stephenson,
    What’s your point?
    I’m not denying the Celts existed.I’m also not saying pre Christian history,paganism or Germanic migration is irrelevant to our history and heritage either.

    and I say that as a Celt who speaks a Germanic language that has a majority of Latin words in it,and who worships a Jewish God on a pagan holiday originally designated for celebrating an Italian Emperor.

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  32. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    # kowtow (1,464) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 10:56 am


    Yeah 1600 years is quite a phase,isn’t it?

    Most of that time was without modern science and without much freedom of thought. In recent times the western world has become increasingly secular where a lot of so-called “Christians” are hardly true believers at all. True believers seem to constitute a small portion of society nowadays. For many people today religion is more about family and tradition rather than a real commitment to scripture and personally, as an atheist, I can enjoy traditional holidays just as much as any Christian.

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  33. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, a President Santorum would launch a new domestic war in the United States – a war on contraception.

    Even though 99% of US women who have sex use contraception, and 98% of Catholic US women who have sex use contraception.

    And 53% of US citizens who actually vote are US women.

    But wait! There’s more! The other Republican candidates are all on roughly the same page!

    It’s as though they want to drive the electorate into Obama’s camp.

    I guess they don’t do focus groups like we do.

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  34. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I don’t think it is funny either Pete. Following is a link to all the kids that have died at the hands of adults.

    http://www.nark.org.nz/NARK_Angels.html

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  35. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    weihana

    Stater of the bleeding obvious…..”most of that time was without modern science….” FFS,of course it wasn’t “modern” then it was ancient science.

    Oh and since when did you appoint yourself as the Lord High Interpreter of what and who are “true” Christians , do you not see how arrogant you are?

    Please feel free to enjoy any holiday you like, no one is trying to stop you.

    Luc,
    Knock yourself out with your nutty rhetoric ,”war on contraception”. People will still be able to buy at the supermarket. War indeed.

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  36. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in past 10 years

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/08/glaciers-mountains

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  37. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    As each Cristian domination insists they are the true Christians.
    Its probable that there are no true Christians.

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  38. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kowtow

    Santorum goes way beyond that particular debate. You are not paying attention. Watch the man himself. You could be pedantic and argue that he wants the state to have the ability to outlaw contraception, but if you listen you will see that if he could, he would do for the entire country.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#46319914

    You will have to sit through 30s of ads (I like watching the ads, though)

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  39. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Britain is going to print…Money that is.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16963116

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  40. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    griff

    I never intended this to become a debate on the nature of Christianity /virtue etc
    I was pointing out that Saint Valentines day is that. It has become secularised like so much else in Christendom.
    Every one should be free to worship as they please, or indeed not to.
    No true Christians? Any one who considers that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead and is the Son of God could be said to be a Christian. Believing that though does not necessarily make you a good or virtuous person.So I think there are lots of “true” Christians around but at the risk of labouring the point we/they are no better or worse than the next person.

    Having said that could you please forward your full details as I want to denounce you to the Inquisition:)

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  41. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Right Now

    Thanks for the heads up, I haven’t got to the Guardian today, yet.

    I do hope you read the Q + A that followed with the glaciologist as guest.

    But you need to revise your interpretation of the study -it’s not that the peaks have not lost ice as the ice is always melting and being replaced by new ice. In fact, as the article says, loss is accelerating, but net mass remains constant.

    This is a new method of observation and has delivered new results. I await your acknowledgement that the science has been freely published and there is no evidence of any suppression in the cause of your favoured global warming conspiracy.

    Basically, more water vapour in the atmosphere as a result of past warming leads to higher snowfalls in some regions. It still fits the science, but previous observation overestimated the rate of net mass loss.

    Exciting science, isn’t it?

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  42. Pete George (22,727 comments) says:

    kowtow I guess you mean a different inquisition to Kiwiblog – there’s plenty enough inquisitions and denouncements here.

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  43. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    It has become secularised like so much else in Christendom

    So much in Christendom has no or at best tenuous links to the Carpenter of Bethlehem circa 30ad including “his” philosophy

    That its merely society reclaiming wot we already owned

    Jesus means savoir of the Jews the name should be reclaimed as well

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  44. Scott Chris (5,869 comments) says:

    kowtow says:- “I was pointing out that Saint Valentines day is that. It has become secularised like so much else in Christendom.”

    Well considering Christmas and Easter were appropriated by the Christians from pagan solar and planting festivals, I’d say it’s all ‘swings and roundabouts’.

    As for what constitutes ‘the true Christian’…. I’d say that anyone who tries to understand what Jesus was actually going on about, and attempts to live by that code is a true Christian. To me, Jesus embodies the qualities of forgiveness, love, compassion, tolerance, charity, humility and sacrifice. Shame a lot of practicing Christians appear not to see it that way. Basically Jesus was a liberal, not a conservative.

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  45. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Above should have read “global meltwater loss is accelerating,but Himalyan net mass loss remains constant.”

    Just for the pedants.

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  46. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    Luc, “But you need to revise your interpretation of the study” – tell it to the guy who wrote the headline.

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  47. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    Cloud height could be a significant negative feedback on climate:

    http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2012/2011GL050506.shtml

    Key Points
    MISR measures global effective height with an annual sampling error of 8 m
    Regional height changes correlate well with ENSO showing global teleconnections
    Decreasing global cloud heights suggest negative feedback over the last decade

    Good to see a couple of NZers produced the paper.

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  48. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Jesus is a myth.

    And not a particularly influential myth, either, in terms of real world actions of the so-called adherents.

    The Nazareth of the Bible never existed, and the actual Nazareth didn’t exist at the time.

    I place myself more on the Hitchens/Dawkins plane than de Botton, who, to me, overemphasises what he sees as positive aspects of religion.

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  49. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    At least this Nazareth existed Luc:

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  50. minto57 (197 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen is a myth. just a figment of some unbelievers imagination
    I aIso note that Atheists tend to be more dogmatic

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  51. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    Jesus is a myth.

    Luc, I suggest you read The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition

    http://amzn.to/Adq9jK

    Here’s what one reviewer writes on Amazon –

    The set of respectable ways to argue that Jesus was legendary or never existed just got a whole lot smaller. Two highly qualified scholars with impeccable credentials have granted the skeptics their wish: to subject the Jesus-myth arguments to critical scrutiny instead of simply dismissing them as ‘anti-God’ or ‘just so much rhetoric’. Maybe now people like Robert Price and Earl Doherty wish they hadn’t. Greg Boyd and Paul Eddy conduct such a thorough demolition of the Jesus myth and make such a strong case for the general reliability of the Gospels that, unless dramatic new discoveries come to light from the ancient world, I doubt anyone will be able on the available evidence to produce such an argument which withstands their criticisms. Skeptics will no longer be able to simply refer to ‘the writings of Robert Price and Earl Doherty’ and act as if that settled the issue of Christian origins. They will have to pass through Boyd and Eddy first.

    More at link, of course….

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  52. KevinH (1,131 comments) says:

    @Fletch

    The conspiracy theory outlined in your entry regarding the ancient greeks was interesting but is just amusing nonsense. Personally I have travelled to Waipoua and tramped over Mangonui Bluff and was not surprised to find nothing remotely matching the nonsense printed in the Franklin magazine: http://bit.ly/yplOt6.

    Northland has a history of volcanism and evidence of that can be seen all around in particular, Hokianga, and the road from Dargaville to Whangarei where large boulders are evident. Also in Wekaweka Valley north of Waipoua large boulders matching the “Greek” one are littered in paddocks.
    In my opinion a number of these nonsense theories have their origins in the large community of pot smoking hippies who resided in the area during the anti 10/80 campaign who promulgated outlandish non anthropological /archeaological theories to amuse themselves and to throw off dope thieves from stealing their crops.
    However one theory that resonated and had credence was the Mangonui Bluff itself, which was once part of a large land bridge that connected New Zealand with Australia but subsided as a result of tectonic activity and eroded over the years through wind and wave action. It is a fascinating area that is spookily inspirational in cultural terms and is still highly regarded by the local maori at Kaihu, the Te Rarawa , Te Taou and Ngati Whatua.

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  53. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    # kowtow (1,467) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    weihana

    Stater of the bleeding obvious…..”most of that time was without modern science….” FFS,of course it wasn’t “modern” then it was ancient science.

    The point, which you seem to have missed, was that superstition thrives on ignorance.


    Oh and since when did you appoint yourself as the Lord High Interpreter of what and who are “true” Christians , do you not see how arrogant you are?

    The point was not to pass judgment as to who is a “true” Christian or not. It is meaningless to me. What I was doing was making an observation that many people identify with religion through family and tradition rather than through any active belief in religious doctrine. That is to say they may find value in the teachings without believing in the fairy tales. Take John Key for instance.


    Please feel free to enjoy any holiday you like, no one is trying to stop you.

    I know.

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  54. TimG_Oz (914 comments) says:

    Luc says: “Jesus is a myth.”

    So, is Muhammad also a myth? Please confirm.

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  55. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    “subsided as a result of teutonic activity”

    It’s proven! The Germans were here first :P

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  56. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    KevinH, um…. Even a university in Greece confirms that the boulder (check out the photo if you haven’t seen it) is thousands of years old and authentic – etched with constellations and calendar. I very much doubt you’ve seen these “littered in paddocks” as you put it.

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  57. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    Luc says Jesus is a myth because He was a Jew living in Judea before the Islamists. History must be re written to suit.

    Jesus was a liberal . So Scotty even knows who God votes for.

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  58. KevinH (1,131 comments) says:

    @Fletch

    Been there done that, your story is complete nonsense.

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  59. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    # minto57 (151) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 1:06 pm


    I aIso note that Atheists tend to be more dogmatic

    I might agree, depending on what is meant. As an atheist I strive to base my beliefs on reason, logic and empirical evidence. As such I believe I can achieve a greater sense of certainty about my life than many who are religious. That’s not to say I am close minded or will not consider arguments or evidence which challenge my way of thinking, but I nevertheless estimate that I have more confidence in my beliefs than those who are religious and therefore the likelihood of my views changing is less.

    For instance, and correct me if I’m wrong, religious people appear to believe that when they die they will go to heaven to live for eternity with God. This is the most glorious and wonderful thing. Yet religious people still fear death and try to avoid it like the rest of us. This, in my view, betrays a lack of faith.

    On the other hand guys flying planes into buildings clearly believe their faith 100% with absolutely no doubts.

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  60. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    KevinH, please explain then…
    And tell me where the rest of these 14 ton boulders (the one of which I mention has been confirmed by a university in Greece) are “littering paddocks”?

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  61. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    Rightnow- Nazareth! Awesome….

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  62. Scott Chris (5,869 comments) says:

    Weihana says:- “Yet religious people still fear death and try to avoid it like the rest of us. This, in my view, betrays a lack of faith.”

    I think you’re being a bit harsh there. The beast in us fears pain and death and uncertainty and rejection and separation from others. That’s just the way it is. The rational part of your brain may come to terms with death, but the instinctive animal is forever lurking in the background…at least in my experience.

    I suspect most of us would panic a bit if the plane we happened to be flying in’s wings fell off.

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  63. spk18 (21 comments) says:

    @Fletch – I expect you also believe in the tooth fairy as well. While it might be convenient to find some race of peoples that were pre-Maori to in part discredit any claims that Maori may or may not have, that ‘science’ and ‘history’ you speak of is, frankly bollocks. Nothing of which you speak is found to be even vaguely verifiable by any credible historian.

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  64. DJP6-25 (1,267 comments) says:

    barry 9:27 am. The brewery should counter sue. They could claim that the tribes irresponsible of alcohol has diminished the firms reputation. Spurious. Of course. No doubt some scum bag lawyer would take the case though :-)

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  65. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Speaking of Luc
    The only good thing i saw a nudist say was this week when a nudist objected to the photo
    in the Herald of 2 nudists sitting together and said, ‘No self respecting nudist would ever sit on anything, EVER.”

    Also. What has gone wrong with New Zealand ?

    i observed the passionate nationalism of Americans evidenced during the Superbowl.
    Hands on hearts, respect shown, tears during the singing of America the Beautifull and the Star Spangled Banner
    That sort of pride in country that used to be the case in NZ when i was a kid.

    Now we have, shitheads allowed to run riot at Waitangi.
    Joris de bres declaring that, ‘Protest is part of who we are.”
    Anzac day reduced to 4 hours in the morning.

    And otherwise seemingly intelligent correspondents such as nasska comming out with shit like,
    ‘I’d like to see all JAFFAS drown.’

    What the fuck has gone wrong ?

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  66. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    spk18, really, it doesn’t matter to me re: claims whether Maori were first here or not, but I do care about history being warped and rewritten; and really, there just is so much evidence of peoples here before Maori (the Maori even have names for the people’s here before them – the “Patu-paiarehe” or Turehu). In the 1800s, skeletons were dug up that were thought to be Maori, but the Maori said that they weren’t their people.

    I’m not saying this is 100% proof, but I think these things should be looked into, and also as to why this stuff has been covered up.

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  67. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I didn’t realise religion was still going strong on GD while I was away, but I’ll post this anyway.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/89715/leonard/?all=1

    It’s an article on my favourite singer-songwriter, Leonard Cohen, and includes links to his performance at the infamous Isle of Wight concert in 1970.

    I was a busy young Dad in those days (jeez, nothing’s changed there; just replace “young” with “old”!) and I always only vaguely remembered the event as some sort of stupendous riot that I sadly missed. I suppose being in the wrong country didn’t help.

    Tim, thanks for your enquiry about Muhammed (although why ask me, I’m an atheist by trade) but I will say Muhammed lived some 600 years after Jesus supposedly did, and records were a lot more reliable by then.

    According to credible historians, there were lots of people wandering around Gallilee in those days proclaiming themselves as the true Messiah, so there were lots of role models for an invented character, and lots of room for creative stories to be woven around pre-existing myths.

    If some short, dark and swarthy character suddenly appears at my dinner table and turns my beer into fish and wine, well, then I suppose I will have to rethink.

    Mind you, I’ve got more than a few hard questions ready for the bugger!

    Anyway, Cohen’s new album, Old Ideas, is available on itunes now. I highly recommend it.

    !

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  68. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Scott Chris,


    I suspect most of us would panic a bit if the plane we happened to be flying in’s wings fell off.

    Absolutely, but my point is simply that I believe I am more confident of my place in the Universe than they are of their place in heaven and this greater certainty can lead a person to be more dogmatic, or at least to have the appearance of being dogmatic.

    We fear death precisely because it is the ultimate unknown and no matter how much a normal person may profess to be sure of God and heaven, they really aren’t. They don’t know anything more than I do. They don’t have a hotline to God even if they pretend that they do. As such there is no more reason to be confident about God’s existence than an atheist even if they delude themselves into believing that their faith is unquestionable. As such when the plane starts falling out of the sky they are just as scared as I am.

    But whereas their faith requires constant effort to ignore or reject contrary evidence, a belief based on rationalization and observation stands on its own and protects one against adopting new beliefs when it is clear that such beliefs are wrong. I think this creates the appearance of dogma.

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  69. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    “Just how many of the 29 men were smokers?Maybe none.”

    There is a good chance that they all ended up smoking and smoldering somewhat

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  70. Fletch (5,993 comments) says:

    re: Muhammad, Robert Spencer has a new book out in April that questions whether he actually existed (hey, if it’s good enough to question whether Jesus existed….)

    Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam’s Obscure Origins

    Are jihadists dying for a fiction? Everything you thought you knew about Islam is about to change.

    In Did Muhammad Exist? best-selling author Robert Spencer meticulously examines historical records, archaeological findings, and pioneering new scholarship to reconstruct what can be known about Muhammad, the Qur’an, and the early days of Islam. He uncovers evidence that calls into question fundamental assumptions made even by non-Muslims. Did Muhammad Exist? reveals:

    * The earliest biographical material about Muhammad dates from 150 years after the traditional date of his death.
    * Neither the Arab conquerors of the seventh century nor the people they conquered made any mention of Muhammad, the Qur’an, or Islam for fully six decades.
    * Recent scholarship indicating that the Qur’an was constructed from existing materials—including a pre-Islamic Christian text.
    * Numerous archaeological indications that Islam as a religion was fashioned for political reasons.

    Far from an anti-Islamic polemic, Did Muhammad Exist? is a sober and unflinching look at the origins of one of the world’s major religions. While Judaism and Christianity have been subjected to searching historical criticism for more than two centuries, Islam has, astonishingly, never received the same treatment on any significant scale. In bringing to light the latest scholarship on Muhammad and Islam, Robert Spencer raises questions of global consequence.

    http://amzn.to/A3Wv46

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  71. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    bereal “And otherwise seemingly intelligent correspondents such as nasska comming out with shit like,
    ‘I’d like to see all JAFFAS drown.’”

    Wait, what? There’s nothing like that in this thread, are you taking about another thread perhaps? Link?

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  72. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    nasska (2,693) Says:
    February 9th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
    GD
    That said,us Northern Wairarapa types really couldn’t care less even if Global warming/climate change/weather occurs. It will give us a fine opportunity to sit on our mountains shouting, “Oi Jaffa, fancy a Pineapple?” as we watch Auckland drown.

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  73. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    Thanks Griff, I didn’t check yesterday’s thread. Funny but IMO not malevolent.

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  74. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    Top ten list for today:

    MP’s air travel for Q4 2011.

    Party, MP, Cost
    Mana, Harawira, Hone 27,067
    Labour, Hawkins, George 17,451
    Green, Turei, Metiria 17,202
    Labour, Goff, Phil 17,127
    Green, Graham, Kennedy 16,554
    Green, Hague, Kevin 15,958
    Maori, Katene, Rahui 14,979
    Labour, Jones, Shane 14,447
    Green, Hughes, Gareth 13,325
    Labour, Parker, David 12,894

    Some MP’s aren’t walking the walk.

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  75. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    The only places to drown in Auckland would be to the south and west
    not much of a loss even if its people go with it
    It would also create lots more islands and bays to play in
    making Auckland even more beautiful

    The rest of the country are just jealous of Aucklands beauty

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  76. TimG_Oz (914 comments) says:

    Ah Leonard Cohen … great artist.

    He did a sell out performance in Israel last year.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/leonard-cohen-performs-in-israel-after-selling-out-concert-in-record-time-1.7302

    He runs the Leonard Cohen fund for Tolerance:

    http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/ramatgan.html
    http://thefundfor.org/

    A lot of barriers for both sides to break through to end the conflict.

    Loved this quote from his website

    “As such, we work to tackle the most critical psychological barriers, such as– fear, mistrust, dehumanization of the other and divergent conflict narratives“

    You don’t suffer any of those psychological barriers, do you??

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  77. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Rabbi Shmuley Boteach has a new book out that questions the supposed divinity of Jesus.

    Kosher Jesus

    Kosher Jesus is a project of more than six years research and writing. The book seeks to offer to Jews and Christians the real story of Jesus, a wholly observant, Pharisaic Rabbi who fought Roman paganism and oppression and was killed for it. While many Christians will be confused by its assertion that Jesus never claimed divinity and not only did not abrogate the Torah but observed every letter of the Law, they will find comfort in my tracing most of Jesus principal teachings back to Jewish sources, this before he was stripped of his Jewishness by later writers who sought to portray him as an enemy of his people

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  78. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    rightnow

    As always with politicians and particularly the left….do as I tell you.

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  79. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    RightNow @ 3.43
    Not malevolent, i agree but you miss the point.

    i will try to spell it out for you.

    If we have respect for , and are proud of our country, why would we want to be so immature
    and parochial that we need to feel that we have put ourselves up by putting our fellow countrymen down ?
    As naaska does ?

    Is that not a symptom of sumsing that has gon rong in New Zealand ?

    This sick trend needs exposing to eraditcate it.

    Its sick and New Zealand doesn’t need it.

    Maybe naaska can tell us why this is just a joke and not realy a sympton of where he has fucked up.

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  80. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    CAGW believers lately have been telling us that colder temperatures in high northern latitudes are congruent with global warming.

    Does that mean that the Yamal tree ring data used in dendroclimatological reconstructions is actually indicative of the inverse of what they’ve been telling us?

    “Tree rings are wider when conditions favor growth, narrower when times are difficult. ”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendroclimatology

    So those narrow tree rings from Yamal probably indicate global warming periods?

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  81. spk18 (21 comments) says:

    @Fletch – FYI a rough definition of “Patu-paiarehe” is pixies… if you believe they are people then you need more help than I thought. I agree with you that history shouldnt be covered up – I don’t agree that this is an example of it. Just because there are a number of quasi-historians and people who ‘feel’ they are right, does not history make…

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  82. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    RightNow
    try and get with the programme baby.

    Tree rings give you a hardon ?
    Shit, Yamal are the best of all.
    So good, you gotta love those Yamals.

    personaly, i’m not sure which ones are better, the narrow ones or the thick ones.

    Bet you favour the thick ones .

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  83. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I have often mentioned here the clear and present danger of investing heavily in fossil fuel exploration and exploitation only to see those assets become “stranded” when the wold moves to the equivalent of a wartime programmme to combat disastrous climate change.

    Here is one estimate of the cost of those stranded assets, the value that will simply disappear into the ether:

    http://capitalinstitute.org/blog/big-choice-0

    Twenty trillion dollars (US).

    You can argue a few dollars high or low, as takes your fancy, but this is the high road that we will one day travel, or else it will be the low road to the most destructive wars mankind has ever seen.

    The Capital Institute’s founder is an ex Morgan Stanley Managing director.

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  84. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    cha

    What’s your point? Are you Jewish?

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  85. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Tim Oz

    I said Cohen is my favourite singer-songwriter, but not necessarily my favourite policy analyst. I suspect we all have enough trouble arriving at a common interpretation of his dense lyrics let alone a policy paper he may write!

    Anyone who alludes to a scenario in which both sides can act together to arrive at the end of conflict is ignoring, either deliberately or through ignorance, the sheer assymetrical nature of the facts on the ground.

    Only one side, Israel, can make peace. Israel chooses not to. That is the end of the story, for now.

    In reality, Israel has peace, anyway. Total domination is the equivalence of peace, and what we have now in historical Palestine (where Palestinians and Jewish Israelis are virtually equals in population size, with another 5 million Palestinians in Arab states eager to return) is an apartheid nation, where low level civic disorder is met with uncompromising, ruthless murder and oppression.

    If that sounds familiar, it’s because it has been tried before and failed. As it will this time, in time.

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  86. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    This discussion reminds me of a fierce online debate I had, many years ago (before the WWW existed in this part of the world) with a couple of Jewish fundamentalists. One of which was the type who loved to troll christians but foamed at the mouth if so much as a bad word was spoken against Judiasm (back then I was a christian-spiritualist). After one of them finally lost his rag, he said that Jesus was a heretic, and anyway, he didn’t exist :)

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  87. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Of course it was someone elses fault didn’t ya know.
    Five year and ssiters “playing on a pile of logs, unsupervised and in someone else’s property.
    Sure ti was someone else’s fault.
    The person who should have supervising the kids and wasn’t.

    AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN’

    A friend and neighbour of Glenn Te Miha-Barlow said the tragedy was an “accident waiting to happen”.

    Helen Tuuta today was in disbelief about the loss of one of Motueka’s young sons.

    “This was an accident waiting to happen. I can’t believe there was no barriers or signs to let kids know it wasn’t safe. That’s all it would’ve taken was a bit of bright plastic … we have lost one of our kids from this community.”

    She wanted answers about why the accident had happened.

    The pile of logs was unbalanced with large logs on top of smaller ones.

    “What 5-year-old wouldn’t think that was a pirate ship or a spaceship and play on it?”

    Heads needed to roll, she said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6395936/Boy-killed-by-log-adored-by-everyone

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  88. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    So the Big Yankee muscle comes calling again. Hope you like the idea that it will cost us all a bunch of dollars to assist the Yankie IRS to collect its taxes.

    Maybe this will piss you off bereal.

    Concessions for NZ building societies and credit unions in draft Big Brotheresque US crackdown on tax dodgers, but bad news for KiwiSaver providers
    Posted in News February 10, 2012 – 11:43am, Gareth Vaughan

    There’s some good news for New Zealand building societies and credit unions in US Foreign Account Tax Compliant Act (FATCA) draft regulations, but bad news for local superannuation and KiwiSaver schemes in the draft of an Act the New Zealand Bankers’ Association has estimated could cost the industry in this country NZ$100 million to comply with.

    FATCA targets US tax dodgers by aiming to ensure there’s no gap in the ability of the US government to determine the ownership of US assets held through foreign bank accounts. It will require financial institutions to collect information on US clients and relay it to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the US taxman. One proposal has been that they will have to withhold tax on customers who don’t comply, and will be subject to a 30% withholding tax on their own income if they themselves don’t comply.

    This proposed new reporting and withholding regime is expected to impact current account opening processes, transaction processing systems and “know your customer” procedures used by non-US banks and is due for introduction from January 1, 2013.

    The New Zealand Bankers’ Association, which represents the country’s banks, has been working with its Australian, Canadian and British counterparts in an attempt to get the US government to alter FATCA, which it says would cost the industry here NZ$100 million to comply with and breach New Zealand’s Privacy Act.

    more @. http://www.interest.co.nz/news/57852/concessions-nz-building-societies-and-credit-unions-draft-big-brotheresque-us-crackdown-t

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  89. Other_Andy (2,261 comments) says:

    You are starting to sound like a stuck record Luc.
    Why don’t you write about the Turkish occupation of Cyprus?
    Why don’t you write about the right of retrurn of the Hindus to Pakistan, Armenians and Greeks to Turkey and Greeks to Cyprus?
    Why don’t you write about the right of return of the more than 850,000 Jews to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Marocco, Agiers, Egypt etc.?
    The Arabs want peace?
    Israel agreed to the UN plan in 1948, the Arab countries attacked Israel.
    Arab states either violated UN agreements or attacked Israel again in 1956, 1967 and 1973 while terrortists backed by Arab countries killed hundreds of Israeli citizens.
    They want peace?
    Since Gaza has been given back to the Arabs, they have send more than 8000 rockets and mortars into Israel. Both Hamas and Fatah have stated time after time that they do NOT want peace but the destruction of Israel.
    “The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

    Tell me Luc..why didn’t they establish a “Palestinian” state in 1948?
    For 20 years Egypt and Jordan “occupied” the “westbank”, Gaza and East Jeruzalem. They even destroyed all the synagogues in East Jeruzalem and expelled all the Jews that lived there.
    And why do they want another Palestine state Luc? According to Prince Hassan, the brother of King Hussein, ‘Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate.’

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  90. TimG_Oz (914 comments) says:

    Haha Luc, that’s pure gold. PMSL… :-) favourite singer but not your favourite analyst.

    Yes we can’t have tolerance … gotta have sheer bloody closed mindedness. Oh don’t insult me by claiming “facts on the ground”, you’ve never been to “the ground” and any fact from you is either cherry picked or twisted like a lemon.

    I thought that would challenge your warped logic. Oh don’t bother responding, I’m laughing off to the weekend now.

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  91. Steve (4,489 comments) says:

    I see the effects of the full moon are still with some.
    General Debate is Generally Religious Debate. Just about any subject gets hijacked, off on a tangent. Pity we have gravity

    Get a life

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  92. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Simple point.
    Quite simple.
    Why is it that in New Zealand it is OK to denigrate our largest city ?
    Why is that ?
    What does it say about all the other citizens with a chip on their shoulder like, say, naaska ?

    Is it like Americans saying, “We hate New York, anyone who comes from New york is a shithead.”
    Maybe in the USA they call them JA NYC SHITHEAD

    naaska will be able to spell it out soon.

    Hold your breath, he is here every nite,
    now to explain where i have got it wrong,

    here is naaska.

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  93. Steve (4,489 comments) says:

    ‘Why is it that in New Zealand it is OK to denigrate our largest city ?’

    Well most if NZ towns and citys are ok with the jafa thing, and they don’t really care. The biggest noise comes from Wellingtonians who have an inferiority complex and a chip on both fucking shoulders. They want to be the BIG city and it ain’t gonna happen any time soon.
    Make Auckland the capital city? No way, we don’t want you non productive civil servants up here.
    Sorry about that chief

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  94. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    What do you reckon Steve, the Ports have suspended the pr blitz and another meeting is scheduled before the strike?

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  95. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Cause to get anything done, have an intelligent conversation, get supplies, get paid etc etc (the list is endless) as well as the bragging, Jaffaz’s are about as efficient and usless as a Northland Hori.
    There.

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  96. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Steve, u might have gone close to WHY ?

    Is it based in an inferiority complex ?
    If so where did that come from ?

    naaska is here every night.
    Waiting to hear from him to night.

    Why do you hate Aucklanders naaska ?

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  97. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    steve @641
    Religion is a huge part of culture.
    get over it.

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  98. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Also. What has gone wrong with New Zealand ?

    i observed the passionate nationalism of Americans evidenced during the Superbowl.
    Hands on hearts, respect shown, tears during the singing of America the Beautifull and the Star Spangled Banner
    That sort of pride in country that used to be the case in NZ when i was a kid.

    Now we have, shitheads allowed to run riot at Waitangi.
    Joris de bres declaring that, ‘Protest is part of who we are.”
    Anzac day reduced to 4 hours in the morning.

    I nearly got sucked in with agreeing, almost, but then I thought what is laereb on about?
    He joins the above group everyday in KB.
    This lot. Now we have, shitheads allowed to run riot at Waitangi.
    Joris de bres declaring that, ‘Protest is part of who we are.”
    Anzac day reduced to 4 hours in the morning.
    KB reduced to ignorance and shit talk by bereal.

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  99. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Mind you he might leave me alone now he has decided to beat naaska up.

    naaska is here every night.
    Waiting to hear from him to night.

    Why do you hate Aucklanders naaska ?

    Do you beat your poor wife as well bereal??

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  100. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Some reading lately that bears upon the Dotcom raids, relating to the “War on Drugs” that Nixon talked about but Reagan initiated and pursued with vigour, even though drug use was falling and only 2% of the US population registered concern about illegal drug use.

    Anyway, it records 1981 as the year that gave birth, via specific legislation tying drug arrests to extra funding, to “military policing” as opposed to “community policing.”

    A description of a SWAT raid: “…not a polite encounter…police blast into peoples homes…throwing grenades…shouting…pointing guns at anyone inside, including young children…dozens of innocent people killed…traumatised victims…overwhelmingly involving black and Latino…handcuffing children and grandparents…often no drugs found…”

    We now see the emergence of this style of policing in New Zealand – at least two prominent examples where a local bobby could have just knocked on a door and asked for the information, or executed a search warrant in a civilised manner (remember TV3 and the polite cops?).

    Confiscated property over there becomes the property of the police department and is often not returned even if no conviction occurs. Here, the government gets lucky.

    I won’t go on about the needless and highly racist (as Reagan was) War on Drugs but the tactics are coming soon to a place near you, or closer, be in no doubt.

    The Dotcom raid sits with the Ureweras incident as the most highly despicable organised acts of policing this country has seen, in my opinion (in modern times, so excluding Parihaka).

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  101. big bruv (13,200 comments) says:

    Bereal

    naaska is jealous.

    He lives in some shitty rural town (could be Chch) and suffers from the inferiority complex common to non Aucks.

    Do not give him any thought at all, like the rest of NZ his opinion does not matter, remember, if he was rich enough he would be up here with the rest of us.

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  102. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    One thing anyone can see sticking out like dogs balls .

    The last moron you need standing you is Viking2

    Don’t embarass those who you think might be your mates Viking2

    On behalf of your mates STFU

    People need a friend like you like they need a hole in the head.

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  103. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    Well most if NZ towns and citys are ok with the jafa thing, and they don’t really care. The biggest noise comes from Wellingtonians who have an inferiority complex and a chip on both fucking shoulders.

    Say what? I think you mean Cantabs (I know, I lived there in my yoof and bought into that whole anti-Akl culture until after I moved to the NI and grew out of it). Wellingtonians as a general rule don’t have a thing about Auckland; however Cantabs always used to call you guys “dorklanders”. It’s John Banks who has a thing against Wellington (or at least, he made a show of it while he was Mayor of the original Auckland).

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  104. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    I have often mentioned here the clear and present danger of investing heavily in fossil fuel exploration and exploitation only to see those assets become “stranded” when the wold moves to the equivalent of a wartime programmme to combat disastrous climate change.

    Luckily for the world Luc I can announce this won’t happen with 100% certainty.

    The world is never going to do that, not in a million years. I mean, do you seriously think every single human being on earth is going to give up all their vehicles, lifestyle etc? Not going to happen.

    Even if the atmosphere became hot like Venus and windy like Jupiter why then none of us would give a shit for we’d all be spirits by then surfing happily through the lead waves etc, since our material beings perished eons ago.

    If we were suddenly driving our cars and it want all black and scawy then that’s not how it would happen, according to the scientists since its a gradual process over many decades.

    If you think there’s a tipping point beyond which the hitherto normal climate plunges into the abyss then what human being hasn’t enjoyed living as they did right up till it happened, all throughout history? Why do you think this will be any diff?

    So I recommend just relax and enjoy life and educate your children well so make this place a heck of a lot better with the technology we leave them, which we’re working on right now.

    Either that or simply panic and buy a whole lot of organic everything, build yourself an Earth House somewhere and bask in your smug self-righteousness until you feel like joining the party again.

    One or the other, really mate.

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  105. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Why doesn’t a nudist such as Luc get it ?

    Nudists dont count Luc.

    You don’t count Luc.

    Get it ?

    Keep standing up Luc.
    For fuks sake.

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  106. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    I didn’t know that you were a nudist bereal.
    But anyway I’m sure there’s a colony for you somewhere in the greater city area.

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  107. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Where is naaska ?
    Every nite,
    day in, year out, but,
    where is he tonight ?

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  108. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    Possibly to the rest of NZ, Auckland is like the guy with the enormous wang, whom everyone is a bit jealous of, but afraid to admit it.

    That’s the only thing that explains it for me.

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  109. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Google going to live music. No wonder the FBI are running around closing down the opposition.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/technology/google-to-create-android-powered-wireless-music-entertainment-system/story-fn7cejkh-1226267727011

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  110. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Guess what Nostalgia -NZ i’m not a sicko nudist but,
    i agree that it is bad to sit down anywhere when u r a nudist.
    Maoris got that too.

    Hope they tell their children that.
    Please let me know where they are so i can avoid them and let
    my pharno know 2.

    How long have you been a sicko nudist Nostalgia-Nz ?

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  111. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Seems that a bit of banter between me (a climate skeptic) & Griff (a climate warmist) has brought ‘bereal’ close to meltdown.

    Funny thing about people…we form small groups (families), larger groups (communities) & so on until we become nations. Then we align with other nations with similar goals & ideals. Sometimes we even have, shock & horror a bit of fun & play rugby or cricket or netball using these groupings to form teams. This is often referred to as parochial pride

    Occasionally we even have each other on about our weather & compare notes about how bad each others mayor is.

    Last night I tossed a comment to Griff facetiously suggesting handing out pineapples grown on the top of the Tararuas while Auckland was submerged by rising sea levels. I guess that most people would have written it off as a joke, a frivolous comment, perhaps a stupid comment….who knows but one person has taken it on him/herself to interpret it as a lack of national pride.

    Please re read the comment. I’ve explained it fully & finally.

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  112. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    I haven’t joined yet bereal, I’m still considering the fine print of your invitation.
    However, don’t be deterred – what ever gets you to sail as they said in the old country.

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  113. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    Luc you want to talk about Dotcom?

    Quite agree. Despicable sychophancy in plain sight with not many people saying a damn thing about it. Fucking outrageous, in my view.

    Why can’t people see that even tho this is being done by our govt that this isn’t the way we’d be doing things if it was purely domestic so why are we doing it this way now? This is the rule of law we are talking about, after all, aren’t we.

    Why can’t people see that this is anomalous therefore wrong in terms of the rule of law and if they can, why the fuck aren’t they disturbed about it?

    Perhaps they think cos it’s only Uncle Sam then that makes it OK?

    If anyone thinks that way perhaps one could explicate that perspective because I don’t get it, seriously.

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  114. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    A young Wellington woman was so depressed that she decided to end her life by throwing herself into the sea, but just before she could throw herself from the wharf, a handsome young man stopped her.

    “You have so much to live for,” said the man. “I’m a sailor, and we are off to California tomorrow. I can stow you away on my ship. I’ll take care of you, bring you food every day, and keep you happy.”
    With nothing to lose, combined with the fact that she had always wanted to go to California, the woman accepted.
    That night the sailor brought her aboard and hid her in a small but comfortable compartment in the hold. From then on, every night he would bring her three sandwiches, a bottle of red wine, and make love to her until dawn. Two weeks later she was discovered by the captain during a routine inspection.

    “What are you doing here?” asked the captain.
    “I have an arrangement with one of the sailors,” she replied. “He brings me food and I get a free trip to California.”
    “I see,” the captain says.
    Her conscience got the best of her and she added, “Plus, he’s screwing me.”

    “He certainly is,” replied the captain. “This is the Picton Ferry.”

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  115. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    Where do you get all these jokes from nasska? I’m hoping you’ll say your prodigious memory (and not some website), or I’ll be disappointed somehow. :)

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  116. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    The cantab anti Auckland thing died along with their rugby dominance. Ancient history. A big ‘who cares’ now. Far as I’m concerned a massive chunk of roading funds should go to Auckland, the infrastructure is an embarrisment. Even compared to the 3rd world roads we have down here now.

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  117. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    reid 7.57

    The value of the property seized is beyond the value of the claim. The claim, which should most likely have been a civil claim, is presented under criminal law in the USA. NZ have siezed goods which are reported to become forfieted to the NZ Government, even though there is no apparent intention to charge Dotcom with contravening any nz law.
    The lives of Dotcom’s wife and family have been invaded, stripped of assets even though they face no charges here. Everything, probably including food, ability to pay their bills has been siezed – and this is called Justice?

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  118. Other_Andy (2,261 comments) says:

    Energy policy based on renewables will win hearts but won’t protect their owners from frostbite and death due to exposure.

    Windmills are a self-indulgent and sanctimonious luxury whose purpose is to make us feel good. Had Europe genuinely depended on green energy on Friday, by Sunday thousands would be dead from frostbite and exposure, and the EU would have suffered an economic body blow to match that of Japan’s tsunami a year ago. No electricity means no water, no trams, no trains, no airports, no traffic lights, no phone systems, no sewerage, no factories, no service stations, no office lifts, no central heating and even no hospitals, once their generators run out of fuel…….

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-energy-policy-based-on-renewables-will-win-hearts-but-wont-protect-their-owners-from-frostbite-and-death-due-to-exposure-3012098.html

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  119. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    As I sat basking in the knowledge that Tim Oz had huffed and puffed his way off to home, I thought I should post some kind of reply to Other_Andy’s diatribe.

    This link give a good summation of why the so-called acceptance of the partition by Israel and refection by Arab states is just another myth. Rejection of being stripped off their land by the Western powers and handed to a bunch of invaders by Palestinians is, of course, understandable. However, nothing is as simplistic as Israel-firsters posit, so peruse this informative article at your leisure:

    http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=99

    Another couple of points for O_A:

    The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is an abomination. Turkey will not be admitted to the EU while it continues, but I fear Turkey’s desire in that regard has diminished.

    I’m not aware of any UN mandated right of return in the other instances you mention, but I’m do support many other causes relating to dispossession and oppression, you just haven’t noticed.

    Your points about Palestinian nationalism ignore the fact that we are talking of an indigenous people forcibly dispossessed of their ancestral lands. They, through their forbears, can trace their roots back to the West Semites, the original occupiers of the land.

    In the UN negotiations leading to the Partition Plan, the Palestinian negotiators expressed their view that they saw themselves as Southern Syrians, an area that included Jordan, but they were precluded from that option. Already, resistance to British occupation had seen a nascent nationalism develop and that deepened with adversity. That’s human nature.

    I suggest you read the link. It answers many of your points.

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  120. noskire (831 comments) says:

    Question for people with knowledge in employment law.

    Wife was told by her management to start looking for another job at the end of last year (she has been there for ten years). Never had verbal or written warnings, and always exceeded sales targets.

    Today she is marched into meeting with management and offered 3 months pay to leave, or they will start performance management.

    ?

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  121. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    See there’s lots of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles missing from Libya.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-02-07/gadhafi-missiles-unaccounted-for/53002584/1?loc=interstitialskip

    Yes, it’s a USA Today story but it was linked from rense so maybe it’s not true but then, it’s USA Today isn’t it and surely that’s owned and run by “reliable people” isn’t it?

    Crikey, who knows, these days? Anyway, isn’t it a shame lots and lots of those things are missing, especially when nothing at all needed to happen, except for Ghaddafi to leave because it wasn’t convenient to have him anymore. Strange isn’t it how a man who’d ruled his people peacefully for many decades and they prospered under him – look it up – and then all of a sudden he wasn’t convenient anymore and they not only had to kill him, they killed him brutally, with one report of him I’ve read said he was raped on the bonnet of a jeep before he was shot dead. Not to mention what’s still happening to all his supporters and their families now. But he was always like that, wasn’t he. The excuse they used to sell his taking out to the useful idiots I mean – he was a brutal dictator who tortured his own people. He never changed. Still, strange isn’t it he was left alone all those years and then suddenly for all sorts of geopolitical reasons which many of us knew about some decision was made and the media started talking about it and then a year or so you know, incident here, incident there, it’s all on isn’t it. Then special forces then NATO then, you know. But hooray, another bad guy bites the dust, isn’t that terrif.

    And the oil agreements they’ve made with the US since and the Libyan Central Bank they setup within days of the fall I think even within a single day, a single day, had nothing at all to do with that, did it. It was just the good guys winning again to vanquish evil from the world and hooray for that, wasn’t it. Of course it was. Hooray.

    Edit: Exactly Nostalgia and why, that’s what I want to know. Why.

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  122. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Reid:

    I’m sort of agreeing with you. I don’t think the world leaders see the global system going on in its present form much longer, so many of the issues that seem to be of vital and immediate importance, are moot.

    Politics as most people know it is just a shell game. Humanity has a destiny which is hidden to most, but not all and one day we will be shown. I’m still trying to figure out who the good guys and the bad guys are. What do you see Reid? The only real fracture point i see is Islam vs the Zionists/Freemasons, and know that the later get up to some horrific stuff. That said, it is a divine plan, and god works in mysterious ways.

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  123. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    adze

    All over the place. I follow a few websites, rewrite some jokes but many come from email exchanges from like minded mates. The best source I,ve ever found was the Australian ‘Picture’ magazine.

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  124. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    reid (9,942) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Jeez Wayne, you blather on! Talking about setting up straw men! Nothing I have said even remotely points to what you wrung out of my words.

    Think of wartime Britain and the way industry ramped up. Think of the Manhatten Project. That’s the spirit we may heed to harness again, and it will be up to the half billion of us in the rich countries who will show the way and save humanity.

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  125. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    Oh dear. Queue eight paragraphs of vitriol followed by a mild stroke.

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  126. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    Abomination (from Latin abominare, “to deprecate as an ill omen”) is an English term used to translate the Biblical Hebrew terms shiqquwts (“shiqqûts”) and sheqets, which are derived from shâqats, or the terms תֹּועֵבָה, tōʻēḇā or to’e’va (noun) or ta’ev (verb). An abomination in English is that which is exceptionally loathsome, hateful, sinful, wicked, or vile.

    The Biblical words usually translated as “abomination” do not always convey the same sense of moral exceptionalism as the English term does today, as it often may signify that which is forbidden or unclean according to the religion (especially sheqets). Linguistically in this case, it may be closer in meaning to the Polynesian term taboo or tapu, signifying that which is forbidden, and should not be eaten, and or not touched, and which sometimes was a capital crime. The word most often translated “abomination” to denote grave moral offenses is Tōʻēḇā. This article examines the term as it is used in English translations of the Bible, and also the actual senses of the words which are being translated into this term in English

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_%28Bible%29

    I notice that it seems to be the word of the week looked it up and found this interesting

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  127. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    Luc, the only way to ensure the ongoing survival of humanity is populate other planets. This one is doomed, just a matter of time – no matter what we do.

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  128. Nostalgia-NZ (4,896 comments) says:

    Reid 8.15

    The ‘capture’ and treatment of Ghaddafi was a moment in time that gave his countrymen, or even a single man, the chance to embrace peace and a just way forward. But no one took it. They took revenge and brutality instead.

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  129. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    noskire (536) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Question for people with knowledge in employment law.

    Wife was told by her management to start looking for another job at the end of last year (she has been there for ten years). Never had verbal or written warnings, and always exceeded sales targets.

    Today she is marched into meeting with management and offered 3 months pay to leave, or they will start performance management.

    What does her contract say?
    Sounds like a case of constructive dismissal coming. Record everything said and done. Dates times places etc.

    I imagine that her contract if she was given one has a redundancy clause they don’t want to pay out on. If she has no contract they are already outside of the law and better go get a good lawyer that knows the employment law.
    FWIW

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  130. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    When did you start beating your wife and kids Bereal? eh

    Really you are just a nasty bastard ain’t you.

    Clearly you need medicating or you need to stop tking your meth.

    Are you a wharfie. You tend to sleep in and thn come here with astinking foul attitude towards others.

    Maybe like philu you are a redeamed nut case and druggie. Are you a druggie?

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  131. Other_Andy (2,261 comments) says:

    I’m not aware of any UN mandated right of return in the other instances you mention.

    Me neither. Which begs they question, why not.

    But I’m do support many other causes relating to dispossession and oppression, you just haven’t noticed.

    I haven’t noticed because you haven’t mentioned any.

    Your points about Palestinian nationalism ignore the fact that we are talking of an indigenous people forcibly dispossessed of their ancestral lands.

    Indigenous? Your ersatz people identified nowadays as the “Palestinians” are a collection of diverse Arab clans plus a smattering of other ethnic groups (such as Serbs — these are the so-called Bosnian Muslims who were Serbian Orthodox Christians before their forced conversion to Islam — as well as Circassians and Chechens, all imported by the Ottoman Empire from their lands of origin to the Middle East. Only since 1967 they publicly declared themselves to be a distinct ethnic nation named after those very same defunct Philistines — this despite the fact that the ancient Philistines were not even Arabs.
    ‘Palestinians’ have no identity other than as the instrument of Israel’s destruction. No history, no ancient kings, no ancient texts, songs, or dances and no distict language. Their modern heroes are famous for murder and destruction.
    Forcibly? Some of them, but that is not the whole story… The Syrian Prime Minister in 1948­, has (Among others) admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave. “Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.”
    You want to talk about refugees? The real refugees were the Jews, 900.000 of them were thrliving in muslim countries before 1948.About 140,000 Jews lived in Iraq; nearly 60,000 in Yemen and Aden; 40,000 in Syria; 5,000 in Lebanon; 90,000 in Egypt; 40,000 in Libya; 150,000 in Algeria; 120,000 in Tunisia; and nearly 300,000 in Morocco, including Tangiers – a total of almost 950,000 in ten Arab countries, and a further 200,000 or more in Iran and Turkey. Today, scarcely 40,000 out of almost 1,250,000 persons remain from these indigenous Jewish communities dating from biblical times – less than 4,000 in Arab countries, scarcely half of 1% of those in 1948.

    They, through their forbears, can trace their roots back to the West Semites, the original occupiers of the land.

    Did you make that up yourself? Most Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the 1845-1947 Muslim migrants from the Sudan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, as well as from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, Bosnia, the Caucasus, Turkmenistan, Kurdistan, India, Afghanistan and Balochistan.
    Arab migrant workers were imported by the Ottoman Empire and by the British Mandate for infrastructure projects: The port of Haifa, the Haifa-Qantara, Haifa-Edrei, Haifa-Nablus and Jerusalem-Jaffa railroads, military installations, roads, quarries, reclamation of wetlands, etc. Illegal Arab laborers were also attracted by the relative economic boom, stimulated by Jewish immigration.

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  132. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    The ‘capture’ and treatment of Ghaddafi was a moment in time that gave his countrymen, or even a single man, the chance to embrace peace and a just way forward. But no one took it. They took revenge and brutality instead.

    No the Libyan militia weren’t Libyan’s Nostalgia. Perhaps you’re been listening to too much Fox.

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  133. big bruv (13,200 comments) says:

    noskire

    Basically she has them over barrel, IMHO she needs to speak to an employment law specialist ASAP.

    In my (unqualified opinion) she needs to face the fact that she is gone but I suspect she will also be able to screw them for plenty.

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  134. kowtow (7,580 comments) says:

    other andy

    Yep when the chips are down it’s back to dirty old coal to keep people warm. So much for global warming.

    http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/germany-forced-tap-electricity-reserves

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  135. big bruv (13,200 comments) says:

    noskire

    One more thing….pay the extra to get a really good employment law specialist. They will more than pay for their fees in what they manage to get for your Mrs.

    Good luck.

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  136. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    I’m still trying to figure out who the good guys and the bad guys are.

    We don’t have good guys and bad guys Wetfoot it’s them and us. This is critical to understand about this issue.

    They call us useless eaters. They undermine our family values through things like feminism and they manipulate us like you wouldn’t believe.

    Consider if politics were not real. It didn’t exist except as a puppet show, in that, in the US has Obama changed the tack which the US has been on, since Reagan? In terms of general decline? Has it? You look. Reagan did the Central Banking Interest Rate monetary reforms then Bush came in and BTW during Reagan, Bush was the driving force e.g. he was behind Iran-Contra and Bush 29 Jan 1991 even (by permission) announced the NWO in his State of the Union and invaded Kuwait. To an open mind there are a lot of problems with that operation but as always look at the attendant fallout for the motive: oil agreements, etc. Then Clinton came (check his Arkansas history it is amazing) with a dot-bomb bubble, Greenspan dropped interest rates to zero, the bubble transferred itself to the nascent real-estate market. At the same time the globalisation era (world govt?) began the off-shoring that has today hollowed out America’s engine so she has no motor for recovery apart from historical reputation and that’s transient. Then Bush 43 arrived and FFS, enough said. Now Obama who has more Wall-streeters in his Administration than ANY other president in history – gee the bailouts didn’t really happen, did they? That’s just a “conspiracy theory.” (Plus the fact he comes from nowhere, has questionable gay links (Specific to the skeptics with cognitive dissonance: What’s the matter, didn’t you know that? I would have thought Fox would have told you that. Look it up, dummy.) and apparently has birth certificate problems sufficient a Georgia judge told him to appear and produce he was no show and consequently could legally forfeit the Georgia ballot (think it’s Georgia).

    Just imasgine if that had really happened. Would that mean both left and right were tanking their own country, or what. Or are they just really mental? The most senior politicians in the richest country in the world over a period of decades, were mental. It really seems

    From what I have read and I don’t know if it’s true, their goal is a world government with 500 million humans with them as aristocrats and the rest of those who survive as slaves to them, in that, you are chipped, without which you don’t work, eat or live. The family doesn’t exist. You don’t breed without permission. Children are taken and raised by the state for their own purposes. Seven billion on this planet cannot be sustained. Therefore 500m is their goal. Simple as that.

    The problem is, Earth isn’t like this, is it. And this is why most people don’t get it. The reason they don’t get it is the cause is a spiritual explanation here Wetfoot, not an Earthly one. This is why many, almost all in fact, fail even to begin exploring it. It’s tragic beyond words for they miss the most important truth of their lives and it’s right in front of them.

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  137. noskire (831 comments) says:

    Thanks bruv and viking, my thoughts too.

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  138. noskire (831 comments) says:

    Next question, can anyone recommend the best employment lawyer in Christchurch?

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  139. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    Now that’s a good nutball conspiracy theory. Right up there with lizard pepole rule the world. Love it.

    http://www.rense.com/general56/liz.htm

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  140. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    Now that’s a good nutball conspiracy theory. Right up there with lizard pepole rule the world. Love it.

    Pearl. fatnuts.

    Rense:

    Ted Turner, Willard ‘Mittens’ Romney & The Mormon Mafia

    Major Ron Paul Hit Piece

    1000s Shoulder-Fired Missiles Missing In Libya

    US Arming Brutal Uzbekistan Dictator

    Assad Is Not Using Artillery On Civilians Says Russia

    Assad Gets The Famous Iraq ‘Dead Incubator Baby’ Smear

    China Says Syrian Opposition Delegation Has Visited

    Syrian Diplomats Expelled By Germany

    US Missile Kills al Qaeda ‘Chief ‘ In Pakistan

    Western Blueprint

    Foster Friess – The Man Bankrolling Ricky Santorum

    Whistleblower – TSA Boys Club Targets Women, Gays, Blacks

    Man Executed By Taser At Gatwick Airport

    UK To Microchip Dogs?

    NASA Spacecraft Sees Big Avalanche Near Mars N Pole

    France Defeats Monsanto

    Monsanto Forced Out Of Costa Rica

    GM Crops Around The World In 2011 – Map

    US Experts Kept In Dark After Fukushima Disaster

    Big Freeze Has Turned European Continent Blue

    etc.

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  141. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Reid:

    Agree that the US, in the macro-sense, is run by an oligarchy, with the left-right divide being a facade. What i meant was, it seems that the Iranian Ayatollahs, supported by other Sheit leaders in Pakistan, are the last stumbling block for the new world order. Both the Zionists and the Islamic fundamentalists are bent on playing out the events that precede their respective messianic prophecies, which means an end of times battle in the Syria-Israel-Iraq area. Following this, both sides want their own one-world state.

    I agree that the Illuminati (what ever you want to call them) are intent on scooping out the soul of western society by degrading all that was once holy (sexuality, family, the human body etc). You could look at them as being satanists, providing their master with ever more souls to join him in hell. That’s why i think they’re ultimately the bad guys in the war. In contrast, the Islamic forces seem to be defending the human soul, so they could be seen as the good guys. Your thoughts?

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  142. Other_Andy (2,261 comments) says:

    And some people are complaining about some New Zealand laws.

    No Fun Allowed: L.A. Beaches Ban Footballs, Frisbees, and Sand Digging

    the California county passed a 37-page ordinance that prohibits “any person to cast, toss, throw, kick or roll” any object other than a beach ball or volleyball “upon or over any beach” between Memorial Day and Labor Day.
    They’ve even gone as far as prohibiting anyone “digging any hole deeper than 18 inches into the sand except where permission is granted for film and TV production services only.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/no-fun-allowed-l-beaches-ban-footballs-frisbees-212100718.html

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  143. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    I prefer the nutball theories with UFOs; ‘ancient aliens, the disclosure project’ etc. the truth is out there.

    This video from the US press club is remarkable, one high ranking official after another.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

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  144. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    fatnuts – I believe that the UFO thing is a smoke-screen in a battle that is essentially spiritual in nature. They’re an other-dimensional spiritual phenomena, not an extra-terrestrial one IMO.

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  145. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Also – no i’m not in to drugs or alcohol lol. I’ve just come to realise that the truth is to be found in the symbolic order of the world, not the literal surface appearances.

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  146. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    But if aliens arrived on earth, back in antiquity, say 100,000 years more technically advanced than earths inhabitants the locals would have assumed them to be gods, right?

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  147. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    In contrast, the Islamic forces seem to be defending the human soul, so they could be seen as the good guys. Your thoughts?

    OK Iran is the most God-fearing country on Earth if one accepts that the people of Israel are not the true Israelites and frankly, if Israel really is populated by the chosen people then why the fuck are they so brutal to their neighbours and don’t say it’s because they have to be, because rationally and realistically, Israel has had enough military strength to control all its neighbours ambitions for a hell of a long time now. Her existence is not under threat from a few bombs. So given this is in fact the stark clear and obvious human and factual reality and has been for decades, why the fuck, why the fuck, pray tell, does she act so very brutally, given she is supposed to be God’s “chosen people?”

    Iran on the other hand has never invaded anyone. Ever. Iraq invaded her, not the other way round and Iran merely defended herself.

    Now if one compares the two, which of the more likely is the G-d fearing one?

    OTOH, you have the Biblical prophecies which are all about Israel and the seat of Jerusalem. You know the Rothschild’s paid for the Israeli Supreme Court building and there is masonic symbolism all over it. It’s unbelievable what is there. They paid for it on the condition the price never be revealed.

    One of them used to be on the 500 Sheckel note. They’re revered there, apparently.

    A key to understanding these people is they wish to destroy God’s credibility in the eyes of His people. Satan is not called the Slanderer and Deceiver for nothing. So if Israel is destroyed, if he can’t save his own people, then He doesn’t exist.

    I’m not sure exactly how Iran fits into this, but a strong real possibility right now is Iran has an unhittable missile force. There are thousands of them and some of them whatever happens will be launched at Dimona and Tel Aviv etc etc also, Iran will I believe be accused of if not actually do, sink a US carrier in the gulf. Iran has missiles capable of taking out carriers, one of the Fifth Fleet’s carriers is on its last voyage before being sent to the carrier-knackers yard which is a billion dollar decommissioning process and frankly, much better if it simply sank in the gulf and we blamed Iran.

    Cynical?

    You bet. I’ve seen and read what these bastards have done. That would be nothing, to them.

    I think it will go nuclear. But surgically as in neutron nuclear. You know, don’t damage the property…

    I think it could trigger China/Russia response but that’s real hard to read.

    Russia you see is NWO but Putin is resisting the pull. Whereas China is still to me but a black box, I haven’t cracked her yet.

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  148. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    The internet do not let them control it
    the MSM is the main method of control
    The whole celebrity, advertising, misleading News, fashion and corporate spin Thing is how the plebs get sucked in. The MSM sucks plebs into a fantasy world.

    Parts of the net is outside of this witness the riots in England using face book etc to organize. Anonymous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_%28group%29
    We can now see any were in the world and make our own minds up from the truth. Social media allows ideas to spread instantly. If you are interesting in a subject You can easily access many sources of information.

    .
    This is why the freedom of the internet is so important.

    Is this why they are prosecuting the German git? IMHO with out doubt.

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  149. Nookin (3,033 comments) says:

    Noskire
    Sounds like her bosses have studied “How to Fuck it up 101″. I could give you a few names but it has been a long time since I practised in Christchurch. I will do some looking.

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  150. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    fatnuts
    Thanks for the link, I’m watching it now… no expectations

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  151. fatnuts (164 comments) says:

    Reid, in my ever so humble opinion, it’s about Jerusalem. The most aggressive settlement activity blatanty annexes off the city. The laws on Palestinians living in the old city are blatanly oppressive, and obviously designed for their ejection. Ultra orthodox Jews openly call for the destruction of the Al-Aqsa Mosque to make way for the 3rd temple, which some beleive wold then ‘teleport’ down. They’d probably trade off much of the occupied West band, even Galilee, once Syria is neutralised. They did with Gaza. These places are shit holes, so no idea why any Jew wold want to live outside of Tev Aviv, or Haifa, which are lovely spots. It part of some grand plan.

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  152. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Reid – I don’t doubt that most of the people in Israel are genuine god-fearing Jews, good people. However, the Rabbinic tradition was corrupted by Satanic forces a long time ago. They learned magic/demonology/spirit possession from the Egyptians, arguably from the time of Moses onwards. Certainly from the time of Solomon onwards. Since then it has spread over the rest of the world like a virus, through the secret society networks, poisoning the hierarchy of most societies. Yes – many people will literally sell their immortal soul for power, astounding but true.

    Not everyone will be fooled however. i.e. the Ayatollahs are savvy to it i believe, and Ayatollah Khomeini won’t travel outside Iran, or meet with foreign leaders. He has also publicly accused Ahmadinejad of practicing black magic – which shows he is aware of the reality that it truly exists. What do you think Reid.

    Agree with you on Russia – I can’t figure China out either.

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  153. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Also – no i do not fear evil. It’s not how long you live but how you live which is important.

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  154. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Williamson looked like a real drop kick on Closeup tonight. When is Key going to reply to John Scarry’s letter of Oct 2,009? It looks like these mongrels are going to dump everything on the CHCH city council.
    Do people know that Canterbury Uni demolished a building because it was the same design as the CTV building?

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  155. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Viking2 8.44
    No. i’m not a druggie but i gotta go now.
    Don’t wanna miss my share of the last burn.
    Onya.

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  156. Scott Chris (5,869 comments) says:

    Abomination = a nation that does a lot of bombin’. The Americans, for instance, are a bombin’ nation.

    Since WW2 the Yanks have bombed:

    Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)

    Guatemala 1954

    Indonesia 1958

    Cuba 1959-1961

    Guatemala 1960

    Congo 1964

    Laos 1964-73

    Vietnam 1961-73

    Cambodia 1969-70

    Guatemala 1967-69

    Grenada 1983

    Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)

    Libya 1986

    El Salvador 1980s

    Nicaragua 1980s

    Iran 1987

    Panama 1989

    Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)

    Kuwait 1991

    Somalia 1993

    Bosnia 1994, 1995

    Sudan 1998

    Afghanistan 1998

    Yugoslavia 1999

    Yemen 2002

    Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)

    Iraq 2003-present

    Afghanistan 2001-present

    Pakistan 2007-present

    Somalia 2007-8, 2011

    Yemen 2009, 2011

    Libya 2011

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  157. reid (15,904 comments) says:

    fatnuts, agree re: heart = Jerusalem.

    The grand plan I fear is a Muslim-Western war with China playing an unknown possibly neutral part.

    Well it’s one of their grand plans. I’m just wondering which one it might be because the others aren’t much better.

    The key at the mo is Iran because they are seen in the Muslim as the purist Islamic nation and attacking them is a dagger through the heart of Islam. Regardless of how we see it this is how the whole Islamic world will see it.

    But don’t wait for the MSM to explain that, will you.

    Not everyone will be fooled however. i.e. the Ayatollahs are savvy to it i believe, and Ayatollah Khomeini won’t travel outside Iran, or meet with foreign leaders. He has also publicly accused Ahmadinejad of practicing black magic – which shows he is aware of the reality that it truly exists. What do you think Reid.

    Crikey. I think we should get some garlic and silver wetfoot.

    And lots of crosses.

    Seriously I read one story where this young Iranian guy’s dad told him when the Ayotollah took over that while the Shah wasn’t good news the religious nutters weren’t any better and this was and I believe still is the Iranian ‘street’ sentiment.

    And if you think of Iran like that you see it as a serious, peaceful, modern, sophisticated, prosperous, powerful country. Why is that scary, to some? This to me is the puzzle.

    Of course, if all one ever thinks about when one thinks about Iran at all, is the latest Islamic stoning or state beheading atrocity and one never thinks anything else about it until the next one comes along, well one is less than a wildebeast in one’s intelligence on what Iran is really like, isn’t one. Possibly a particularly stupid wildebeast.

    There’s lot’s of them thar wildebeast out thar Wetfoot, this is the problem.

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  158. Wetfootmammal (32 comments) says:

    Reid – fair enough on the garlic and silver.

    I was a typical well-educated, hedonistic, agnostic lefty liberal up until a year or so ago (not saying you are). I would have laughed at the idea that black magic is a real and powerful force in this world. Then events in my life led me to a different understanding. It’s very real, and almost took my life. Of course it’s impossible to prove, but it’s at the crux of the whole spiritual/political issue of our time. The best i could do is direct you to a doco, which should get you questioning your position on the matter.

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  159. noskire (831 comments) says:

    Thanks Nookin.

    It’s a high-profile international company and she’s been shafted because she didn’t (or didn’t want to) fit into the “sub-culture” that exists in its Christchurch operation – an operation I suspect would surprise the God-fearing NZ CEO that is supposedly in charge.

    Appreciate your help.

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  160. Griff (6,693 comments) says:

    Grow your own solar panel http://www.sciencenewsline.com/physics/2012020317190079.html

    The biosolar breakthrough has the potential to make “green” electricity dramatically cheaper and easier.
    “This system is a preferred method of sustainable energy because it is clean and it is potentially very efficient,As opposed to conventional photovoltaic solar power systems, we are using renewable biological materials rather than toxic chemicals to generate energy. Likewise, our system will require less time, land, water and input of fossil fuels to produce energy”

    New particle to look for once we find the higgs accounts for dark matter. http://www.sciencenewsline.com/physics/2011092117140014.html

    The Universe wouldn’t be the same without the Higgs boson. This legendary particle plays a role in cosmology and reveals the existence of another closely related particle. “We have determined that when the Higgs condensate disappeared to make way for the particles that exist today, the equations permitted the existence of a new, massless particle, the dilaton,” explains EPFL physicist Daniel Zenhäusern.
    ‘It turns out that this new and as yet purely theoretical particle happens to have the exact characteristics to explain the existence of dark energy.”

    Antimatter trapped and studied. http://www.sciencenewsline.com/physics/2011060608200000.html

    Is antimatter the answer for time travel?
    ” A particle moving forward through time in our universe should be indistinguishable from an antiparticle moving backwards through time in a mirror universe”

    Will anti matter become the next big weapon?
    “They will escape from the trap, and we can detect the annihilation – even for just a single atom.”

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  161. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (1,245) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Now I’m home from work, relaxing, less hurried, I’ll give O_A some more guidance, and hopefully catch up with him tomorrow to point him this way.

    He accuses me of being unconcerned with other causes but the reply really should be, even if that was true, so what? We were all brought up with this conflict writ large in our homes. I was raised a Christian, of course, so the spiritual imperative should be obvious.

    In addition, though, and primarily now, I recognise this as the last European colonisation project and we mainly agree these days that colonisation, all things considered, is bad for those colonised. This one is not complete and can be ameliorated, so we, as Europeans, have a responsibility to advance amelioration as favourable as possible to the Palestinians, without causing physical harm to Israelis.

    So I’ll see his begging the question and raise a red herring.

    Then he objected to my asserting Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land, and complained of immigration to the land.

    Well, Andy, almost no ethnicity is pure, these days, and Palestine has seen a long line of conquerors come and go, but that does not diminish the claim to indigeneity, which is recognised at the United Nations and other international forums. Go argue with them.

    Your paragraph beginning “‘Palestinians’ have no identity other than…” is just more Zionist trope. It’s proven lies, disproved especially by Israel’s own historians. You need to widen your reading, and a good start would be my reading list shown on my blog, albeit badly in need of updating.

    The Jews in Arab states, Mizrahi Jews, were particularly hard hit by the despicable actions of the western powers in supporting the Partition Plan. Not only did they have to contend with the hostile actions of people they had lived with for thousands of years, they then suffered racist marginalisation in Israel, as they do to this day. It was only human nature for fellow Arabs to take the side of Palestinians, but the Jewish Arabs were victims, too, in more ways than one.

    However, this is something that needs to be taken up with the Arab states as it has nothing to do with Palestinians or with a resolution that ends the occupation and the oppression.

    Your last paragraph I have already covered above.

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  162. Nookin (3,033 comments) says:

    Noskire

    Best way to contact you?

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  163. Rat (383 comments) says:

    noskire (539) Says:
    February 10th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
    Question for people with knowledge in employment law.

    “Wife was told by her management to start looking for another job at the end of last year (she has been there for ten years). Never had verbal or written warnings, and always exceeded sales targets.

    Today she is marched into meeting with management and offered 3 months pay to leave, or they will start performance management.”

    Noskire

    When they marched her into the meeting, was she given notice of the meeting and advised to bring in an adviser ?

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