Whistle blower or traitor?

December 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm by David Farrar

The HoS reports:

It’s tough being a whistleblower as Private has found.

The US Army intelligence analyst is alleged to have provided a huge trove of classified information – everything from Iraq and Afghanistan war logs to 250,000 diplomatic cables – to in 2010, triggering enormous media coverage and a witch hunt by US authorities to find the leak.

I don’t regard that as whistleblowing. A whistleblower would reveal specific information about specific alleged misdeeds. That is vastly different to stealing and passing on 250,000 cables.

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46 Responses to “Whistle blower or traitor?”

  1. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    He’s a traitor and should face a firing squad.

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  2. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    He’s a hero and should be given the nobel prize for peace.

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  3. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    If the US hadn’t done what it did, Manning wouldn’t have done what he did.

    Funny how some who think he’s a traitor, wouldn’t condone someone else who knew about a crime, not reporting it. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. After all, it’s not as if he leaked intel on say, radar systems. All he did was leak material that showed wrong doing, not by an individual but by a country. And wrong doing is wrong doing, whichever way you look at it.

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Bradley-Manning-A-Window-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-121204-212.html

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  4. Rex Widerstrom (5,349 comments) says:

    Regardless of which he is, how’d he get past the supposedly rigorous psychological and mental stress testing they put you through before you even get to enlist, let alone the presumably even tougher tests you’d need to undergo to get access to high level classified information?

    I’ve read about him suggests he ever wrestled with his conscience about releasing the information, jus that as soon as he realised he could get his hands on it he brought CDs into work – ostensibly to listen to music – and burned the cables onto them.

    And what sort of a military command system is that easy to penetrate?! If the whole thing relies entirely on its operators not being bribed / seduced / converted to Islam / going crazy then I’m going to implement Plan B – a top secret defence strategy which I cannot confirm or deny involves pulling the bed covers over my head and whistling very loudly.

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  5. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,889 comments) says:

    Given a Nobel Peace Prize?

    Really?

    Then take him out straight away and shoot him. And have the committee reconvene atop a two tonne pile of their patron’s fine product timed to detonate ten minutes after the meeting convenes. One must make allowances for late comers.

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  6. Elaycee (4,378 comments) says:

    Manning is scum. He deserves everything coming his way….

    And no surprises at all that this piece of jaundiced crap appeared in the Hoorald.

    Endorsement of subscription cancellation – TICK.

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  7. Colville (2,261 comments) says:

    250,000 cables.
    If it took one minute to read and check each one that is wasnt sensitive and would end up with deaths of his countrymen that would have taken 4,200 hours. So lets assume he didnt do that and released them to Wiki because he was on some moral crusade.
    Hang him high.

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  8. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    what are you rabitting on about now “Adolf”?

    and speaking of rabbits, how many dogs have you bagged now Adolf? I believe it was about 71 at last count?

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  9. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    If the US hadn’t done what it did, Manning wouldn’t have done what he did.

    Your statment reads like a panty-waisted excuse for crime: The environment is responsible. I had no choice.

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  10. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    So you approve of the US soldiers who did this, kk?

    http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/video_shows_murder_of_journalists_and_iraqi_civilians_20100405/

    I wonder if you’d still approve if it was say, Iraqi soldiers doing exactly that to say, US citizens?

    Simple consistency and logic would force you to say, yes, you would approve of that. Which seems a bit odd but if that’s your position then that is your position. After all, murder is murder, isn’t it. You can’t say it’s not murder simply because of the uniform the soldiers are wearing, that’s just nuts.

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  11. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    reid, You said Manning wasn’t responsible for his actions. I think that is a ridiculous assertion..

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  12. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    You said Manning wasn’t responsible for his actions.

    No I didn’t. I said he’s not culpable in my book if his actions exposed state-sponsored murder of civilians and other assorted culpable state crimes, which they did.

    The fact he exposed one of our “mates” seems to be the critical determinant in some people’s thinking, which as I said, is hypocritical and logically inconsistent. If what he exposed had been done by one of our “enemies” then most of the people who think he’s a criminal would have been praising him for his courage.

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  13. alex (304 comments) says:

    @Reid – Hit the nail on the head. Manning exposed exactly what it is the US Army does in the name of their citizens, and how it is often completely different from the official information. Such people are crucial for a healthy democracy. The reaction of the US Government would suggest that it is not, in fact, a healthy democracy at all.

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  14. Kea (12,463 comments) says:

    But but but Reid !!!

    If the US government really murders civilians and does all these evil things, then who do the citizens give their guns to ?

    tvp, mikenmild, Scott1, big bruv, eszett and other assorted lefty shills, told me the US government does not do these things. They claimed we would all be safer if only the US government forces had guns. Look for yourself.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/gun_control_in_the_us.html#comments

    So how can it be that official government documents contradict their claims ?

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  15. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Kea, what’s the point in asking me what some lefties think about US gun control?

    You know, or should know by now, that I’m a conservative.

    The difference between me and some other conservatives is that I’m not flighty, sometimes taking one position, like on the GFC and sometimes another, like on gay marriage.

    No, unlike those flighty conservatives like DPF and Whale, I’m always consistent, calling bullshit when I see it, whether I see it in a “friendly” like the US or whether I see it in a social movement designed to destroy conservative values, like in gay marriage. I find it moronic and idiotic to adopt as some do, the Nelson blind-eye approach to certain issues and I simply refuse to do that. As evidenced by my own post on the gun control thread, which is consistent with my conservative values, in limiting the power of govt and maximising the power of the people. I just wish others like DPF and Whale were as consistent as I am, but they’re not. Too bad, for them.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/gun_control_in_the_us.html#comment-1062382

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  16. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    Kea

    This wouldn’t be one of those cases of mass cognitive dissonance, probably caused by something someone has dumped in the water, perchance? I realise that time is taking it’s toll on my memory but it seems like only yesterday that we were reading the bleats of those who considered Mummy state to be the only safe repository for all those nasty gun things.

    Less than twenty four hours for a complete flip flop could challenge the record of Phil Goff under pressure in an election year.

    Anything for “the cause”!

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  17. Kea (12,463 comments) says:

    nasska, The lefty authoritarians seem to be very quiet all of a sudden.

    I hope RRM & his crew have not done anything “silly”. They said some very alarming things yesterday and lashed out at all of humanity. I worry about our lefty brothers, they live in such a bleak and hopeless world. It can’t be easy living with that sort of burden.

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  18. Kea (12,463 comments) says:

    Reid, yes I do know that. I was making a point, not taking a dig at you.

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  19. Rex Widerstrom (5,349 comments) says:

    The trouble with trying to make your argument, Reid, is that the United States does not aggregate data on police shootings of its civilian populations. Funny that, ain’t it?

    Some police departments keep such information (the latest NYC statistics are for 2010, so clearly it’s not a priority) and some do not, and no central agency collects and collates them.

    You can easily find statistics on the crimes committed by the civilian population, including shootings, but it seems the total number of killings of civilians by police (and related enforcement agencies such as the FBI, ATF, ICE etc etc) never appears on the radar. There’s a petition to try to change that. I wish the proponents luck, but I’m not holding my breath.

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  20. Mark (1,481 comments) says:

    Reid (12,615) Says:
    December 16th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
    Kea, what’s the point in asking me what some lefties think about US gun control?

    You know, or should know by now, that I’m a conservative.

    The difference between me and some other conservatives is that I’m not flighty, sometimes taking one position, like on the GFC and sometimes another, like on gay marriage.

    No, unlike those flighty conservatives like DPF and Whale, I’m always consistent, calling bullshit when I see it, whether I see it in a “friendly” like the US or whether I see it in a social movement designed to destroy conservative values, like in gay marriage. I find it moronic and idiotic to adopt as some do, the Nelson blind-eye approach to certain issues and I simply refuse to do that. As evidenced by my own post on the gun control thread, which is consistent with my conservative values, in limiting the power of govt and maximising the power of the people. I just wish others like DPF and Whale were as consistent as I am, but they’re not. Too bad, for them.

    Reid its good to know that that you are so consistent and not an issue by issue thinker. Conservative is right no matter how moronic a particular conservative view may be. you have a lot in common with the great thinkers from the green party.

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  21. Kea (12,463 comments) says:

    Mark I agree. We should judge each issue on its merits and not hold a particular position to appear either left or right. There is way too much of that sort of thinking here on KB.

    I am right on some issues and left on others. Some days I am fighting in the trenches with Redbaiter by my side and other times I am a god hating homo loving brain washed liberal. I must have the balance about right ;)

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  22. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Reid, yes I do know that. I was making a point, not taking a dig at you.

    Sorry Kea.

    Reid its good to know that that you are so consistent and not an issue by issue thinker. Conservative is right no matter how moronic a particular conservative view may be. you have a lot in common with the great thinkers from the green party.

    Yes it was a bit tongue in cheek Mark, I was desperate to claim the moral high ground you see. But in reality unlike the Gweens I don’t pwetend I’m always correct simply because I have my warm tummy on my side. I prefer to use logic and if my position is illogical, I stand ready to be hoisted onto my own petard. (Yes I know that also sounds arrogant as well but I don’t know how else to put it…)

    The trouble with trying to make your argument, Reid, is that the United States does not aggregate data on police shootings of its civilian populations. Funny that, ain’t it?

    Rex in my book real conservatives don’t support the govt when they do wrong but rather they excoriate it, whether or not a conservative administration is currently in power. I’ve noticed you do that as well, BTW. IMO the issue in the US is their national psyche. You put a uniform on an American and they turn from a nice friendly person into a facist in quick order and you see that all over from police to border officers to TSA to military. They literally become like mini Cartmans (from Southpark). Respect my authoriti! I don’t know why that happens but it does, undeniably. Interestingly the same thing doesn’t happen elsewhere, like say, the Brits. And IMO this is why the US and the Brits have a completely different approach to occupation. For example compare the British approach in Northern Ireland to the US approach in Iraq and you have no comparison. None of this is necessary and none of this makes sense, unless you recognise the possibility its done on purpose, to encourage the traits the respective authorities consider desirable in their troops. Which says a great deal about the motivations of those who architect the situations in which these traits play themselves out.

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  23. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Having the balance right could lead to drooling from both sides of the mouth.

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  24. BlairM (2,321 comments) says:

    “I’m a principled conservative, but I’m not one of those bad conservatives, because just like the Left, I’m bigoted against Americans too!”

    It would be funny if it didn’t sum up so many supposedly intelligent New Zealanders on the Right, including some bloggers…

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  25. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    Let us know when you get an even flow of drool. :)

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  26. OneTrack (3,027 comments) says:

    a traitor, aiding and abetting the enemy. How was releasing any of that stuff supposed to have helped the US. It didn’t. It just made things significantly harder and, I believe, cost some people their lives. And it helped America’s enemies. Sounds like a textbook definition of teachery to me.

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  27. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The release of previously secret information, however that release occurs, may sometimes be in the best interests of those who hold that information. It was arguably in the interests of the American people to know more about what was being done in their name. The likelihood of exposure, whether by legitimate means or not, may be a useful check on the abuse of power.

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  28. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Execute him.

    As for the weird argument “but look what the Americans did”, who cares?

    As much as kiwis seem to think our viewpoints are taken notice of by other countries, this is an issue for the US military.

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  29. Rex Widerstrom (5,349 comments) says:

    Reid:

    IMO the issue in the US is their national psyche. You put a uniform on an American and they turn from a nice friendly person into a facist in quick order … I don’t know why that happens but it does, undeniably. Interestingly the same thing doesn’t happen elsewhere, like say, the Brits.

    Well it certainly happens in Australia and I’ve seen it in NZ too. Only occasionally mind you, but definitely there. I’m thinking back to the cop who stopped me near Ashburton over 20 years ago, wearing jodphurs, leather jacket and dark glasses even though he was driving a sedan on an overcast day. He, of course, came complete with the authoritarian moustache. Or the parking warden who used to (may still do, for all I know) wander around Lower Hutt jangling an enormous ring of keys so people would see his moustache and dark glasses. Since all the meters were keyed alike obviously all but one key was there for show, unless he moonlighted at the dog pound and every cage had a different lock.

    Then there’s Council themselves, like the one in Perth which has banned kids from digging holes, building sandcastles, flying kites and doing just about anything else on its beaches aside from sit there looking photogenic in case they want to take a snap for yet another “please visit our town” promotion, which they need to keep paying for because they just can’t figure why people only ever visit the one time, then stay away…

    My theory is that you give a little bit of power to anyone and the first impulse of about 85% of them is to figure out how to abuse it… all that keeps the NZ ratio lower is that we as a society tend to mock authoritarians, then ignore them, whereas Americans either start a major civil liberties campaign or meekly comply.

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  30. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    I’m thinking back to the cop who stopped me near Ashburton over 20 years ago, wearing jodphurs, leather jacket and dark glasses even though he was driving a sedan on an overcast day.

    You weren’t telling people you were Blondini and driving a yellow mini with missing doors and wearing a WWI leather flying helmet were you Rex? Because if so, yeah, that cop was a real prick, wasn’t he. Imagine what he would have done to you if the cameras hadn’t been there.

    My theory is that you give a little bit of power to anyone and the first impulse of about 85% of them is to figure out how to abuse it…

    I just wish I was one of the 85 instead of one of the 15 Rex, for then I feel I would have accumulated far more riches and power than I have. Obi Wan’s advice has had its downside.

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  31. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    Hunt down and kill anyone who thinks about committing acts of terror, it’s nasty, but it’s quick!

    Terrorise the terrorists! :cool:

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  32. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    A traitor of the worst kind!

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  33. SHG (312 comments) says:

    Doesn’t matter either way. Whether he was a whistleblower or a traitor, he should have been tried quickly and detained under humane conditions until trial. Which, you know, didn’t happen.

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  34. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    Reid would be the only self professed “conservative” I know who constantly links to sites run by far left liberals, (in this case one that supports the Occupy movement). In fact he’s more a far left conspiracy loon than a Conservative as his belief that (/11 was an “inside job” demonstrates so well).

    And if he really thinks that the bleeding heart liberals DPF and Whale are any kind of Conservatives then its clear he doesn’t have a damn clue what the term means.

    Manning is a dopey little fag who now claims it was his “gender confusion” that caused him to release secret messages and other classified material to his traitor buddy Assange and Wikileaks. Material that put his fellow soldier’s lives, and the lives of their Afghan friends at risk.

    He put his pissant concerns about himself and queers in the military before his duty as a US soldier.

    He’s therefore a dirty cowardly little narcissist and a traitor, and he should get the chair or the needle or the bullet.

    I dunno why the army courts have been fooling about all this time. He’s admitted his treachery.

    Execute the POS and be done with it. Send a message to Assange and the rest of his traitorous group and the far left commie scum who nominated Manning for the Peace prize.

    Assange should be the next one.

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  35. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    SHG – you know, hes in the army. bad luck.

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  36. Zapper (1,019 comments) says:

    Both Kea and reid are the only posters I have ever seen who think “a lot” is one word “allot”. Also both batshit insane. Coincidence?

    And yes, this guy is a traitor. An uncivilised country in the middle east would execute him. USA should imprison him. NZ and Australia would make him a hero.

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  37. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Anyone else on Reddy’s death list, I wonder? If only he had the personal courage necessary to take the fight to those commie scum.

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  38. Zapper (1,019 comments) says:

    Well said, redbaiter

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  39. Rex Widerstrom (5,349 comments) says:

    @Reid

    Ha, I’d quite forgotten Bruno’s exploits in that film :-D No, I was a far more sedate type of fellow, flogging my wares to country GPs, but I made the mistake of accelerating over the limit in order to pass a particularly long articulated truck. Mr Moustache came speeding after me, but I didn’t notice him till after I’d pulled in front of the truck and he pulled in behind me, reducing the safe distance between the truck and his car to such an extent the truck driver blasted his horn.

    I evidently wasn’t meant to exceed 100 km/h even on the wrong side of the road with clear visibility and a straight road virtually to the horizon. Funny little man he was. I imagine he’s now ordering round the nurses in some aged car facility while they offer long-suffering smiles and grind more sedatives into his porridge.

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  40. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    A volunteer ,serving soldier,presumably under oath to perform the duties of his office ……..

    He’s a traitor.

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  41. Tautaioleua (296 comments) says:

    Give that man a QSM. Foreign policy is increasingly secretive. You might say because such information is ‘classified’ but I think people don’t know enough. We elect representatives on our behalf. We don’t elect them because ‘they know best and should lead us blindfolded’ – this is the information era. We need more from our governments.

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  42. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    Just to address something else that really pissed me off about this thread, and its Reid’s claim at 2:26 that Wikileaks released evidence of a “crime”. He’s meaning the helicopter attack on Iraqi terrorists that also killed two so called Reuters Journalists.

    In fact no soldiers were charged with any wrong doing because the video was a relatively short edited part (17 minutes) of a battle that extended for four hours and was used by Wikileaks to underpin patently false charges against US troops, and the real purpose was always to get Wikileaks maximum publicity.

    In the proper context there was no wrong doing, and as for the “Reuters journalists” they were filmed actively helping the Iraqi terrorists engage with other US troops. They got what was coming to them.

    In the second place, this was not the only issue regarding the documents leaked by Bradley. They provided the location of sensitive targets, and provided names of Afghan loyalists who had helped US forces against the Taliban.

    Reid claims he only makes decisions after considering all of the “facts”. In his dictionary, a fact is anything written on any anti-US website, no matter how distorted it is by propaganda intent.

    BlairM is correct. Reid is just another anti-US bigot who wouldn’t know a fact if it was chewing his arse off.

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  43. alex (304 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter – You may not always be on the same side as the US government, which is arguably the most powerful organisation that has ever existed, in terms of their ability to kill at will. An opinionated fellow like yourself should be careful about advocating a policy of killing all potential enemies without mercy, as one day their enemy might be people who hold the same opinions as you.

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  44. tvb (4,366 comments) says:

    Much of it was low llevel diplomatic chit chat. It was quite interesting to read. I do not think the security interests of the US were much harmed.

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  45. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    It sounds like there needs to be… some kind of… Court Martial hearing… to determine the answer to DPF’s question? ;-)

    LOL at all the Kiwiblog hanging judges out in full force as usual.

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  46. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    “BlairM is correct. Reid is just another anti-US bigot who wouldn’t know a fact … .”

    People who like to conflate criticism of US foreign policy with a general hatred of the US are doing so under the dubious illusion that US foreign policy and US public opinion are one and the same.

    It is the attempt to preserve the ‘necessary illusion’ that public opinion effortlessly conforms to public policy which drives the State to punish Manning; if the US public become more aware of the iniquitous behaviour of its publicly funded enforcers they may very well agitate for the legitimacy of that authourity, being exercised in their name, to be challenged.

    Uncritical acceptance of US foreign policy is an act of simpering docility whether you are a US citizen or not.

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