A different view on North Korea

September 21st, 2013 at 7:49 am by David Farrar

Retired Australian Supreme Court Justice chairs a commission set up by the UN Human Rights Council about .

Now as readers will know Justice Gareth Morgan recently toured North Korea, and his findings included:

  • it was fantastic
  • The country is beautiful
  • The country is just fantastic, the farms are perfect. They have no pollution.
  • huge pride in their personal space
  • those they witnessed were not malnourished or lacking in necessities in clothing or shelter
  • poor, yes, but wonderfully engaged, well-dressed, fully employed and well informed
  • what North Korea has achieved economically despite its lack of access to international money has been magnificent.

So how does that contrast with what Justice Kirby has been hearing from actual North Koreans who escaped:

“The commission listened to political prison camp survivors who suffered through childhoods of starvation and unspeakable atrocities, as a product of the ‘guilt by association’ practice, punishing other generations for a family member’s perceived political views or affiliation,” he said.

Among the stark testimony was that from a man imprisoned from birth, who lived on rodents, lizards and grass, and witnessed the public execution of his mother and brother; from a woman who saw a fellow inmate forced to drown her own baby in a bucket; and from a man obliged to burn the corpses of starved inmates and scatter their ashes on fields.

Mr Kirby also spotlighted torture and sexual violence, detention for watching foreign soap operas or having religious beliefs, kidnapping citizens of South Korea and Japan, massive malnutrition, and the total control by the regime’s propaganda apparatus.

Just fantastic!

 

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95 Responses to “A different view on North Korea”

  1. Right of way is Way of Right (1,122 comments) says:

    Have you ever seen video footage of a North Korean Citizen being interviewed by international media. They do nothing but speak party slogans, and you can clearly see in their body language that they are TERRIFIED that they will say the wrong thing and end up in a gulag, or worse.

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  2. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Careful David,
    You will be targeted by the Red Reverend Borrie from Porirua.

    Morgan has spent too much time on his BMW motorbike. It has dulled his brain.

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  3. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    Having met retired Justice Michael Kirby a few times I would rather support his views than those of Morgan.

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  4. wat dabney (3,761 comments) says:

    As any Marxist-Leninist can tell you, you can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

    People like Russel Norman for example, or the late British historian Eric Hobsbawm who asserted that the sacrifice of millions of lives is worth it to achieve communism.

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  5. wreck1080 (3,917 comments) says:

    Gareth should move there.

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  6. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Morgan reminds me a little bit of the nauseating types one could meet in the 1970s and 1980s who would claim that one could not have an informed opinion on apartheid unless one had travelled to South Africa.

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  7. greenjacket (466 comments) says:

    I had always read Gareth Morgan as a commentator with interest. With this, he displays such a complete naivety verging on stupidity that any of his future opinions are not worth reading.

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  8. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think Morgan is deliberately a controversialist. I find his opinions stimulating, even when they are demonstrably foolish, like his views on cats and North Korea.

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  9. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    My biggest problem with the left is that they put ideology ahead of people. Morgan is a classic example. He should be sick with shame.

    mikenmild , I hope you are right. I used to like the guy and his concern for others.

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  10. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m sure he is concerned for others. He doesn’t have to be right every time – he just needs to keep pumping out ideas.

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  11. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    You ignore what Morgan has previously said about North Korea:

    “Standing at the wire between North and South Korea is a strange experience. Thoughts of course turn to Kim de Jung who just got the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to cajole his northern neighbour, the “Hermit Kingdom” from 50 years of darkness. Being the last surviving example of socialism gone horribly wrong it also of course reminds one of what’s been happening back in New Zealand with Labour set on a course of taking our country down a road for which there is unanimous condemnation and derision about in the West. What did the AFR just say – “the world is rightly concluding that New Zealand has lost the plot”.

    Our government’s effort once again to charm selected businesspeople over the cuppa tea we’ve been having since David Lange originally called for it, will only change things for the better if government accepts it’s policies have to date been ineffective. Nobody is blaming this government for having caused the long term economic slide – but investors sure look to government to deliver policies that will improve matters. If they see policies that will only make things worse then they rightly conclude, “New Zealand has lost the plot”.”
    http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/580/letter-from-north-korea.aspx

    and BTW Morgan has more unkind stuff to say about National:

    Given New Zealand is a democracy, what the public thinks about the state of New Zealand’s rivers and streams should matter a great deal. In fact, it should be the only thing that counts.

    However from the policies that are in place right now, and if leaked documents circulated last week from the new policies that are coming are anything to go by (see here), the public is evidently unconcerned about fresh water quality and has no interest in reining in polluters. Believe that at your own risk.
    http://garethsworld.com/blog/enviroment/time-publics-views-prevail-fresh-water/?utm

    Gareth Morgan digs deep and delivers his climate change verdict
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0905/S00025.htm

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  12. Ian McK (237 comments) says:

    Never seen a reborn socialist that can be trusted. Even Dashing David Cunliffe has now been exposed as a liar.

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  13. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Again, it’s not about trusting, or even liking, Morgan; it is about the quality of ideas and the debates generated. Thanks for the links hj, there’s a far bit of reading for me there.

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  14. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Aint it great to have an energetic, caring, free thinker, out side the self interested putrid lump!?

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  15. wat dabney (3,761 comments) says:

    I find his opinions stimulating

    If that’s the case then the profundity of Hollywood actors’ thoughts on Social Justice will blow your mind.

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  16. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    The best argument against Morgans visit and stated opinions came from Eric Crampton who compared him to Stalin’s “useful fools”. Except that the North Korean regime has been around a lot longer and managed without the help of outside endorsement.
    You don’t get access to someone’s house and slag it as you’re walking down the drive (if you want to come back).

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  17. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I must admit that I can’t think of any Hollywood actor that could write such a good blog article as this one on the Snapper decision:
    http://garethsworld.com/blog/fisheries-management/hobby-fishers-must-pay-snapper/

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  18. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I do not condemn socialist states out of a philosophical difference. I condemn them for what they do to their people and the methods used. At the end of the day it is only outcomes that matter to people, not the ideas. Most of us here are not poor & powerless enough to fully grasp that.

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  19. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Anyone remember Aesops Fables where the wind and the sun had a contest.

    The Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger. Suddenly they saw a traveller coming down the road, and the Sun said: “I see a way to decide our dispute. Whichever of us can cause that traveller to take off his cloak shall be regarded as the stronger. You begin.” So the Sun retired behind a cloud, and the Wind began to blow as hard as it could upon the traveller. But the harder he blew the more closely did the traveller wrap his cloak round him, till at last the Wind had to give up in despair. Then the Sun came out and shone in all his glory upon the
    traveller, who soon found it too hot to walk with his cloak on.

    Moral of Aesops Fable: Kindness effects more than severity. The North Korean regime needs to be able to save face a bit if it is to risk a thaw?

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  20. OneTrack (3,106 comments) says:

    Kea – “At the end of the day it is only outcomes that matter to people, not the ideas”

    While that’s true, the problem is that the ideas lead to the real outcomes. Which in the socialists case, mean they say they want “equality” and they usually end up with 99% equally poor and an authoritarian nightmare. They don’t seem to have a concept of real human nature and what people really want.

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,884 comments) says:

    Gareth might like it there. I bet there are not many cats.

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  22. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    OneTrack , yes I agree. It does not work. That is my point. The socialist dream ignores human nature. My point was that if it did work in reality, I would not oppose it just for ideological reasons, provided the outcomes worked. It is not a left/right thing, it is about common sense and pragmatism.

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  23. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    If there were no socialist regimes and we were all libertarians we would still have problems. The libertarian view of climate change indicates a faulty dial on the dash for starters.

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  24. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    the problem is that the ideas lead to the real outcomes

    Well said OT. Many people haven’t yet grasped the reality that thoughts are things. James Allen has written a brilliant treatise on this.

    Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master.

    They don’t seem to have a concept of real human nature and what people really want.

    Personally I’ve always believed communists have done what they have done purposefully and deliberately with full knowledge and aforethought in the total understanding that what they were doing was designed not to free but to enslave.

    I don’t believe your average leftist thinks that but I do believe the people in highest echelons such as those who control organisations like the Fabians know exactly that and do exactly that and for exactly that reason. And the average leftist is simply a fool who gets dragged down into the mire of their poison because they haven’t yet learned how to separate reason from emotion and they get carried away with the duplicitous lie that humanity’s path is best served by collective sacrifice. Their mistake lies in the fact that this in fact is quite true, provided the collective sacrifice is led and conducted in the name of all that is good and humane, but it’s not, under socialism, because the lie is that its done in the name of whatever their leaders decide is best for them and their own close circle of followers and its then sold in the disguise of all that is good and humane. And anyone who knows the first thing about human nature is that you don’t look to mankind for wisdom, you look elsewhere, because mankind is always venal, cruel, vindictive and ruthless and you only have to look at history to establish the truth of that.

    But those simple and apparent facts have never stopped fools from having their ears tickled before and I don’t expect it to stop anytime soon, but what appalls me is that at this time in history when we have more information available to us than ever before simply there for the taking, and yet still we have tremendous numbers of people lining themselves up for their own sacrifice by voting like turkeys, for their own thanksgiving.

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  25. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Given New Zealand is a democracy,

    It isn’t. Democracies, unlike NZ, observe the rule of law.

    what the public thinks about the state of New Zealand’s rivers and streams should matter a great deal. In fact, it should be the only thing that counts.

    Thinking like that is one of the reasons that conspiracies involving the state are so widespread.

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  26. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    NZ is a democracy,like any, flawed and imperfect,but a democracy non the less.

    One of a number created by our British fore fathers.

    I am proud of them and the world they created.Imperfect, but a shit load better than the alternatives (to paraphrase the great Winston S Churchill).

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  27. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ugly, democracy is about representation of those who law governs. Our laws are made by our elected representatives. You can not get much more democratic than that. Appeals to religion and unelected kings who lived in the dark ages in another country before NZ was discovered are not examples of democracy.

    It is a pretty simple point and you must see it for yourself. So the question is; What is really your game ? I do not think you are being honest and upfront about your motivations. Why not simply say how you would like things to be and cut the bullshit ?

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  28. cha (4,018 comments) says:

    Weird.

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  29. Scott (1,800 comments) says:

    The problem in North Korea is communism and atheism. You cannot separate the two. It’s what happens when atheists run the show. They don’t believe they will be accountable in this life or the next. They do not accept any limits on their power. Given the rise of atheism in this country, and this blog is a good example, one can only shudder if atheism became our nations official religion.

    Atheism or Islam? Not much of a choice is it?

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  30. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I think poor Gareth is embarrassed by his fortune and feels he has to make amends before he meets the eye of the needle.

    A lot of rich chaps become a tad eccentric in their declining years! :)

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  31. Yoza (1,875 comments) says:

    I know for a fact David Cunliffe was born in North Korea and was educated in that country’s most radical madrassas. It was at the People’s Red Madrassa of Pyongyang that he met Kim Il Bin Laden (aka Gareth Morgan).

    The people need to know!

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  32. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Scott, no the problem is ideological zealots like you. Who do you think you are demanding that your absurd cult be imposed on people by central government ? The only difference between the society you want and North Korea is in the ideology not in the methods used.

    If we are to move forward and evolve, we need to be considerably less tolerant of people like yourself. Your belief in the supernatural is not harmless and not a personal issue. Religion has caused more suffering than socialism through out history.

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  33. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Beware of all zealotry – religious, political or social. I tend to mistrust greatly those who are most certain that their particularly ideology is best for others.

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  34. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    mikenmild, There is a difference between being a passionate advocate for something and being a zealot. The difference is a zealot will maintain a position regardless of the evidence or logic. Being “mild” on important issues is nothing at all to be proud of. It has allowed some of the greatest tragedies in human history. No wrong can exist with those who allow it through indifference.

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  35. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I take it then that you will be resigning from HOBM milky! :)

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  36. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don’t mistake my cognomen for indicating mildness of opinion – it’s just a name I chose to indicate I didn’t wish to imitate the style of the more rabid commenters.
    Johnboy – bury me in a red and white coffin!

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  37. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    As long as HOBM get out the chequebook again to pay for your coffin it shall be done milkey! :)

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  38. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Shall we remove any green stripes that get mixed up with the red and white milkey? :)

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  39. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes please – religion, like politics, has no place in sport.

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  40. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    cognomen

    Well that got me running to google :)

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  41. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Cog no men are chaps that cant engage and screw anymore Kea! :)

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  42. Redbaiter (8,890 comments) says:

    This is a thread about Nth Korea and you idiots are using it as a chat thread.

    Grow up.

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  43. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    It’s cause of Hindu new year Red me old matey! :)

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  44. wat dabney (3,761 comments) says:

    The problem in North Korea is communism and atheism

    Shh, Scott. Grown-ups are talking.

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  45. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Red, this is a thread about ideology and you are using it to launch off topic personal attacks. :)

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  46. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Also, there is no GD today for some reason.
    Do they play rugby in North Korea, I wonder?

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  47. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    HOBM supporters are some of the worst ideologues I have ever met Kea! :)

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  48. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Johnboy what does HOBM stand for ?

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  49. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Milky can tell you. Ask him/her. :)

    I could not let the full wording of it pass my lips in case I chundered myself to death! :)

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  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Hutt Old Boys is a Lower Hutt rugby club temporarily saddled with a Marist moniker.

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  51. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (4,921) Says:
    September 21st, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    This is a thread about… blah blah blah

    Spaghetti alle Vongole

    INGREDIENTS
    Kosher salt
    6 oz. spaghetti
    4 Tbsp. extra-virgin olive oil, divided
    1 garlic clove, thinly sliced
    1 tsp. crushed red pepper flakes
    1/4 cup white wine
    2 lb. cockles, Manila clams, or littlenecks, scrubbed
    2 Tbsp. roughly chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley

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  52. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Do they eat much spaghetti in North Korea? Is it legal to be a Pastafarian in P’yonygang?

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  53. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    mikenmild , No. The dear leader has ruled that eating is a capitalist construct and it is forbidden.

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  54. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Milkey has duly been reported to Lucia and the NZRFU as an Apostate! :)

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  55. Redbaiter (8,890 comments) says:

    The idea of these comment threads is to make some kind of substantive point on the OP.

    You infantile rattlebrains just use this blog and any thread you fancy as your own personal chat room.

    Always all about you.

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  56. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (4,921) Says:
    September 21st, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    This is a thread about… blah blah blah

    Dung Beetles in Ancient Myth

    Dung beetles, often referred to as ‘Scarabs’ hence the classification Scaraboidea, at least those of the roller persuasion have been noticed by mankind for a long time and in ancient Egypt the scarab or dung beetle was their most important religious symbol In some Indian tribes from South America a dung beetle named Aksak is supposed to have modelled the first man and woman from clay, an oblique reference the dung beetles habit of shaping the dung into balls. An ancient Taoist text contains the following quote, “The scarab rolls hi pellet, and life is born in it as an effect of nondispersed work spiritual concentration. Now, even in manure an embryo cam develop and cast his ‘terrestrial’ skins, why should the dwelling of our celestial heart not be able to generate a body too, if we concentrate our spirit on it?”

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  57. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    It’s just the alternative thread since it’s Hindu new year Red. Any contribution you feel you should make ( since I love your style) would be greatly appreciated! :)

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  58. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I just gave you a plus to encourage you! :)

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  59. Redbaiter (8,890 comments) says:

    This applies to Nth Koreans but also applies to NZers. Only to a lesser degree.

    “None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.”

    – Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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  60. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    The Tao

    76 – Rigid behaviour will kill you

    When alive, the body is supple, yielding.
    In death, the body becomes hard, unyielding.

    Living plants are flexible,
    In death, they become dry and brittle.

    Therefore, stubborn people are disciples of death, but
    Flexible people are disciples of life.

    In the same way,
    Inflexible soldiers cannot win (a victory).
    And the hardest trees are readiest for an axe to chop them down
    Tough guys sink to the bottom, while
    Flexible people rise to the top.

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  61. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Folks named Johann always have very important stuff to say! :)

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  62. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Ah so little flighty bird. You have researched many wise words to emasculate the unyielding! :)

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  63. Redbaiter (8,890 comments) says:

    Gareth Morgan has some like thinkers in the US-

    SAN LEANDRO — Over the objections of residents and human rights groups, the city will raise the flag of the People’s Republic of China on Oct. 1, a day that honors the formation of the sovereign state in 1949 by communist leader Mao Zedong.

    The City Council voted 4-3 Monday to approve the request by Councilman Benny Lee, a Chinese-American who said he intended the move as a sign of support for the city’s growing Chinese population and a sign the city is open for Chinese business and investment.

    “Raising the flag gives us the opportunity to show the openness to the people of China, the business people of China, to show that we welcome that investment and we welcome the prosperity,” Lee said. Raising the flag also is a way “to acknowledge and accept the people of Asian ancestry, Chinese ancestry” in San Leandro, he said.

    So, is there any substantive difference in terms of personal liberty between Nth Korea and China that should enable us to welcome one and reject the other?

    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24113366/san-leandro-fly-flag-peoples-republic-china

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  64. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    High & low, beautiful & ugly: all your creations

    2 -Making things ugly

    When people see beauty, they think, “that’s beautiful”.
    Thinking of something as beautiful makes you think other things are ugly.
    Calling something “good” forces you to call some other things “evil.”

    The ideas “difficult” and “easy” support each other.
    “Long” and “short” define each other.
    “High” creates “low”
    “Tone” creates “noise”
    “Before” creates “after”
    “Have” creates “don’t have”

    This is why the Sage acts without effort and teaches without words.
    New things are created and the Sage just accepts them.
    Things fade away and the Sage accepts that too.

    A Sage can have things without feeling they “own” them.
    The Sage does things without putting an emotional stake into the outcome.
    The task is accomplished, but the Sage doesn’t seek credit or take pride in the accomplishment.
    Because the Sage is not attached to the accomplishment, the accomplishment lasts forever.

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  65. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    The advantage of listening to Gareth Morgan is in the fact he has actually been to North Korea. Most of you neolibs haven’t even left the North Shore.

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  66. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Bollocks Sammy. Some of us have moved as far south as Wainui! :)

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  67. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    More edicts from SS-Sturmbannführer !

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  68. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    The universal principles of government or private organizations in Taoism should be as follows:

    A. The size of government must be small.

    B. Laws and regulations must be simple and few.

    C. Policies must be honest.

    B. Economic system must be fair.

    C. Taxes must be low.

    F. Population growth must be controlled.

    G. Individual freedom must be protected.

    H. Education must be a priority.

    I. Military expenditures must be limited.

    J. The leader must voluntarily retire.

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  69. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    J. The leader must voluntarily retire.

    Helen did. God how I have misjudged that Woman/Person :)

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  70. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    Kea – How come there are two “B”s in your list?

    Did you try to cut and paste the “B. Economic system must be fair.” out?

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  71. Scott (1,800 comments) says:

    Kea-you talk rubbish. Christianity begets a civilization that has lasted millenia. Atheism always begets hell on earth that lasts a few decades before the people vomit it out. The leaders of North Korea are atheists. That’s why they are so horrible to the people.
    Atheism has caused more suffering than anything else.

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  72. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Herr SS-Sturmbannführer, nicht !

    http://www.thegreattao.com/html/taoofphilosophy.html

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  73. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    But there are also two “C”s in Kea’s list.

    C. Policies must be honest.

    C. Taxes must be low.

    Ah now I understand! :)

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  74. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SS-Untersturmführer Johnboy, you try and write the bloody list in Mandarin then smart arse ;)

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  75. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    Now I see too – Kea’s a religious nutter.

    Who would have thought – a religious nutter on a Right Wing blog.

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  76. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “Now I see too – Kea’s a religious nutter.

    LOL :)

    He actually said that !

    This shows the comprehension skills of the far left.

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  77. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Kea (7,678) Says:

    September 21st, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Scott, no the problem is ideological zealots like you. Who do you think you are demanding that your absurd cult be imposed on people by central government ? The only difference between the society you want and North Korea is in the ideology not in the methods used.

    If we are to move forward and evolve, we need to be considerably less tolerant of people like yourself. Your belief in the supernatural is not harmless and not a personal issue. Religion has caused more suffering than socialism through out history.

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  78. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’s boring to quote yourself – just sayin’.

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  79. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    If you feel that you have to explain ( even to a retard like SS ) you have lost Kea.

    Never say sorry, never explain! :)

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  80. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Yes, North Korea is described as a communist state, because of its antecedents,. and its Stalinist approach to life.

    But the reality is that North Korea has morphed into the biggest criminal family business in modern history, possibly ever. It is far bigger, and sarin gas notwithstanding, more ruthless than the Assad family business that is Syria.

    In terms of criminality, and on a scale of 1 to 10, North Korea (aka Borrie-Morganland) would rate 10. Assad and Syria about 9, the drug cartels of Columbia (et al) and Mexico 5, and the mafia (irrespective of location) three.

    Let us be clear- North Korea is the 2013 personification of Ronald Reagan’s Soviet evil empire.
    Morgan’s delusional view is reminiscent if how those equally delusional 1930 era suckers portrayed Hitler’s Third Reich.

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  81. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “It’s boring to quote yourself – just sayin’.”

    mikenmild, sorry the power of the holly spirit took over.

    I have been called all kinds of things here on KB, but “religious” was one I never saw coming :)

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  82. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’s not close enough to Xmas yet to be drinking ‘holly’ spirit. Sounds like something they might try in Wainuiomata.

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  83. Scott (1,800 comments) says:

    Gosh Kea,still writing foolish nonsense. Christianity has existed for millenia and has flourished without any government assistance at all. Christianity imposed by government? It existed and flourished for example when Rome spent all its time persecuting the church.

    Atheism is imposed by govt. And always ends up hell on earth. You guys should apologise for North Korea. And the Soviet Union. And communist China. And even your mate Hitler was a Darwinist . So although not an atheist he believed like you do in natural selection and the survival of the fittest. He was a pagan by the way,not a Christian as you so stupidly said a few days ago. Now you are corrected. Got it?

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  84. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Gosh Scott, still writing foolish nonsense.

    I would argue that the regimes you cite actually represent the kind of totalitarian ideologies that many ‘religious’ people would like to see imposed on others.
    And natural selection is an observed scientific fact, BTW.

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  85. wat dabney (3,761 comments) says:

    Is Scott a 13 year-old?

    Seriously. Such infantile stuff.

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  86. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Everyday is a holly day in Wainuiomartia. Darwin finished writing his book before we came on the scene Scott! :)

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  87. cha (4,018 comments) says:

    Since you asked Russell – A few years ago my brother, ex-army cook and now executive chef with a European mob, travelled to NK set up western dining at a re-unification hotel.

    He said the drive through the DMZ was quite an experience in itself, chilling and foreboding. The NK defensive positions appeared to be post WW2 Soviet batteries which with ageing munitions would pose more of a danger to the artillery men and rocketeers than anyone else.

    The soldiers were exclusively youngsters, he described them as farm boys and most certainly not well trained soldiers, in ex-soviet uniforms with many carrying bolt action weapons and overseen by an officer corps who appeared to be from an entirely different ethic group.

    He was accompanied by political commissars, appearing to be from a different ethnic group again, while he was there and warned about straying out of the the designated compound and was made aware of the shooting of someone who did. The civilians he did have dealings with were exclusively from a political class speaking impeccable English with the burr that comes from a Russian education.

    What he did see of the locals was from the transport through the DMZ and the compound he was confined to where he could see small agricultural settlements with people going about their tasks and not a machine or vehicle of any sort in sight. Everything was manual, digging, ploughing, the lot. The only evidence of any machinery was the sound of small stationary engines most probably being used for irrigation and, because when the engines stopped and place went black, small scale generation. There didn’t appear to be any reticulated electricity although there was a cell network that the political class were using.

    NK itself looking like NZ, hilly with winding roads and beautiful coast, but quiet, dark, with small underfed people who were doing it hard being lorded over by another group who weren’t doing quite so badly and all tucked away from prying eyes.

    The re-unification itself hotel was marvellous though, self contained in it’s own compound with it’s own generation, water, waste treatment etc, top SK/western food, great accommodation, services, and an 18 hole course as good as any.

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  88. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Hey Scott…….the idiots here forget that they are all hard wired to worship.

    Some of us worship our Creator while others worship bloody near anything…….eachothers arseholes, cocks,….Kylie Minogue!

    And the pathetic Kea worships her own ego also…….without reasoning……the feminists simply told her…..’be more assertive’ Kea!

    Kea’s a pussy! :cool:

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  89. Scott (1,800 comments) says:

    No milkenmild-everything I have said is true. Christianity leads to freedom and civilisation. Atheism leads to murderous tyrants who go to war against their own people. Mao,Stalin,Lenin,Kim Jong etc-all murderous tyrants-all atheists.Atheism leads to hell on earth.
    An atheist is not at peace. He is not at peace because he is not at peace with himself. He is not at peace with himself because he is not at peace with others. He is not at peace with others because he is not at peace with God.

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  90. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Say it all over again a few more times, Scott and it might sound as though you believe it. Isn’t that how prayer works?

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  91. jcuk (687 comments) says:

    Kirby was looking for problems and found them while Gareth was enjoying his trip and apparently did.

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  92. jcuk (687 comments) says:

    Sadly Scott is typical of the intolerant religious who cause so much trouble … in the case of Christianity for the past couple of millenia it has been around what with wars ‘because god is on our side’ and persecution of their own countryfolk.
    Christianity is wonderful but the trouble is it is interpretted by humans who usually make a stuff up with personal desires.
    It is sad that such a wonderful idea is afflicted so much by so many … no wonder some turn to unbelieving to get away from it.

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  93. OneTrack (3,106 comments) says:

    What’s wrong with Kylie Minogue?

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  94. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    jcuk , people do not and can not “turn to unbelieving”. Speaking personally, I do not believe in god. End of story. It is not a position I adopted to make some sort of statement. When the question is religion, then I am opposed to it. But I see that as a separate question to the existence of god. If I believed in god I may still speak out against religion, I do not see it as a contradiction to have that separation.

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  95. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    North Korea is a grotesque personality cult run by a hereditary dynasty which is presiding over a charnel house? Nothing new there, sadly. Although it’s good to hear Justice Kirby reiterate it so eloquently. Unfortunately, the dynasty in question has a brainwashed standing army and nuclear capabilities, so it won’t be easy to dislodge…no matter how much one would wish otherwise. Otherwise, one risks an irradiated Korean peninsula, which would cause untold damage and chaotic refugee flows to adjacent China and Japan. And, depending on the amount of nuclear weapons used, a nuclear winter. The best that one can hope for is the collapse of this nightmare.

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