Cunliffe won’t go if he loses

July 8th, 2014 at 4:30 pm by David Farrar

My Labour sources have been telling me for some time that those who expect to go, if Labour loses the election, are wrong. They say he has made it very clear that he doesn’t care about the support of caucus, so long as he has the unions and activists on side.

This poses a huge dilemma to Grant Robertson if Labour loses. He massively has the numbers to roll Cunliffe. In fact under Labour’s rules, Cunliffe needs a 60% confidence vote, otherwise the leadership is vacated. If they have a caucus of 34, then just 14 MPs voting against will cause a vacancy in December.

However if they roll Cunliffe, and Robertson stands against him, and loses again, then Robertson may never become leader. He won’t get a third chance. So the Robertson Camp are genuinely unsure whether to risk rolling Cunliffe come December. Up until a few weeks ago they were assuming he would do a Clark and Goff and resign if he loses. But as reported in the Herald, he won’t:

Labour leader David Cunliffe says he expects to get the 60 per cent endorsement of caucus that he will need in a confidence vote soon after the election even if Labour loses the election.

Mr Cunliffe has also indicated he would seek to stay on as leader if Labour was still in Opposition. The party’s rules require a caucus confidence vote within 3 months after an election at which the leader must get at least 60 per cent support.

Asked if would expect to get that endorsement even if Labour was still in Opposition, he said “I think that’s quite likely.”

This helps explain why Cunliffe no longer has a target of getting 40% of the vote, but is now saying he just wants to get Labour into the 30s:

Mr Cunliffe had originally said he hoped to lift Labour into the 40s in the polls, but it is currently polling at just below 30 per cent in most.

He denied he had since lowered that target, but refused to give a new target. “What I am clear about is that we wouldn’t have to get to 40 per cent to change the Government.”

He said he was certain Labour would get above 30 per cent – higher than its 2011 result of 27 per cent

So why such a modest target? Well, survival. If he does even worse than Goff, then the caucus will have no choice but to roll him. But if he can do even say 2% better than Goff and get say 29%, this allows him to declare he will stay on as leader, and tell his caucus if they roll him – he will not resign – and win the union and activists vote.

Labour2041

Maybe his tweet wasn’t a typo, and he is saying he will stay on as leader until 2041, if that is what it takes to finally win!

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129 Responses to “Cunliffe won’t go if he loses”

  1. ROJ (125 comments) says:

    Cunliffe: “…Labour was still in Opposition, he said “I think that’s quite likely.”

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  2. RightNow (7,015 comments) says:

    You’re doing a heck of a job Cunny.

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  3. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Is the Maori person (can’t tell the sex, but then that’s probably true of half the attendees) he is embracing disabled?

    I wonder which of his accents he used to address the “Congress”??

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  4. stigie (1,458 comments) says:

    As DPF put up on an earlier post….

    Don’t they look happy! Captions below – as always funny, not nasty, please.

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  5. shoreboy57 (141 comments) says:

    Oh joy – three more years of Cunners. Is iPredict up for JK as PM 2017?

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  6. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  7. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    sociopath

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  8. JMS (370 comments) says:

    Please stay Cunliffe!, or at least make a mess on your way out.

    Encouragingly, Labour has a deep pool from which to draw future Leaders of the Opposition.

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  9. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Oh Kimbo, you absolute idiot!! I used to sleep with a Tongan woman (the same one) every night for 8 years…my children are half Tongan… I lived in Tonga for four years…Garrett & Associates of Nuku’alofa and Auckland is still working…

    I think that’s called an “epic fail” by the yoof isn’t it? (You I mean, not me…)

    Now slink off back to the Stranded where you belong…we use two and three syllable words over here…

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  10. ldypen (42 comments) says:

    Cun?liffe is doing a great job, he really is the answer as far as National is concerned as the longer he stays as the labour leader the more people will realise just how wishy washy and useless he really is… so Labour please don’t roll your great leader all the good folks need him to stay exactly where he is.

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  11. Ross12 (1,488 comments) says:

    Similarities between the statements from Cunliffe and Len Brown are rather striking !!

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  12. TMC (64 comments) says:

    Not sure why that would surprise anyone. Of course he’ll stay on. Textbook narcissist. They’ll need to pry him out of the bunker kicking and screaming and even then he’ll be blaming someone else.

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  13. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “But then I suspect the only time you’ve actually met someone who is Pasifika close up”

    Heh! As soon as I read that I thought “yeah, this is going to be fun!”

    Silly boy! Epic, epic fail!

    Have at him David! :)

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  14. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Oh, and just before you go…I have it on very good authority (My estranged wife and all the people who worked for me in Tonga) that “pasifika”, the idea that all PI people are one big happy family, is a bullshit construct born of the Auckland intelligentsia..

    In fact the Samoans hate the Tongans because the Tongans once ruled an empire in the Pacific including both Samoa and half of Fiji; the Fijians hate the Tongans for the same reason; the Tongans hate and despise the Fijians because they are “black” – or at least the ones outside Rotuma and the Lao group are (because the Tongan empire once included those islands those people are Polynesian in appearance and not Melanesian..).

    All of which you might just know if you got your knowledge “on the ground” rather than from some New Zealand born “pasifika” lecturer at Auckland Uni…

    And just because I am a generous sort of chap…any other questions you might have about the interrelationship between the Tongans Samoans and Fijians – modern or historic – just ask and I will try and enlighten you…

    Actually YOU might be able to help ME…Hone Harawira often used to say to me “Your wife’s blacker than me, eh bro!” Now why do you think he might have said that? (My reply was always, She is Hone…and?? He never elaborated)

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  15. s.russell (1,650 comments) says:

    He may be bluffing: it would not be smart to say he would quit if he loses as that would suggest he expects to lose. But if true it kinda explains the insane policies: he is not trying to win middle NZ in order to win the general election. He’s written that off: he’s trying to win/keep the love of the activists so he can win the leadership election. If true I think he’s dreaming. Once he loses in September he’s toast no matter how “pure” he is.

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  16. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett

    Now slink off back to the Stranded where you belong…

    No David, I’m actually a National voter as my previous posts will attest.I just don’t like nasty shits. And as per Wikipedia, I’m well aware of your time in Tonga.

    And in all your huffing and puffing about the obvious cariacture I used (which was kinda the point in response to your original post about the NZ version of one armed dyslexic Welsh paraplegics), I note you have ignored the primary point – you were acting like a nasty shit towards someone who is not running for political office, and is simply involved at a low level of NZ politics as is her right and passion, and who, more to the point, didn’t deserve your arrogant disrespect.

    And just so you realise, I used the term “Pasifika” rather than “Polynesian” because it collectively distinguishes non-Melanesian and non-Micronesian Pacific Islanders from Maori…you know, Maori being Polynesian and all. Maybe those academics aren’t so imprecise after all. Whatever kumbaya nonsense you want to read into that is your baggage, not mine.

    And whatever the history of Tongans and Samoans, plenty inter-marry and live and work, play and study together. Plenty of whom I count as my friends. Better than the English, French and and Germans who have some “history”. Maybe you need to chat to more Tongans. Including the ones marries to Samoans (Mr and Mrs Inga Tuigamala come to mind…)

    Now, are you prepared to back down off that big high horse and admit that the lady in question didn’t deserve the chimpanzee shit you were throwing her way?

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  17. Nostalgia-NZ (5,324 comments) says:

    It’s been obvious for months he is unlikely to go – Labour is ‘reshaping’ from the inside out. They know they get to ‘tag’ National at some point and they need to be organised in order to do that. What it means is that may have hit rock bottom and see some signs of the rebound. Not only does he have the unions on side, but McCarten in the fold and a better chance than National to form a Government with IP, NZF and the MP. It may or may not work, but for the first time in years we appear to see a ‘long game’ unfolding with Labour, probably as much as anything a political evolution of sorts – if not the swallowing of reflux and doing a ‘National’ on ‘National’ following the success of JK in doing a ‘Labour on National’ for so long. Smarter politics than Labour has managed in years if only to copy the ‘copy cat.’

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  18. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Kimbo: Now just in case you think the early Maori were the only cannibals in the Pacific I commend to you a book by one William Mariner: “Tonga Islands; William Mariner’s account”..Mariner – like me 150 years later – spent four years in Tonga after his ship the Port au Prince was sacked, and most of the crew eaten by a chief called Finau and his tribe…Finau took something of a liking to Mariner – the cabin boy – and spared him…his account of his time there between 1806 (when the ships company was eaten) and 1810 (when Finau allowed Mariner to return to England) is most interesting…

    and so I am not indicted for thread jacking…I should perhaps offer my services to Cunliffe as “pasifika advisor”…legal work is a bit scarce just now, and I would probably be his only advisor on matters Pacific who had ever actually lived there…Whaddya think? Don’t be shy..you weren’t before…

    Ah there you are…actually, one lesson I have learned in life…when you are caught making a complete ass of yourself it’s better to just admit it…You had no idea of my history you clown…

    There may well be some intermarriage between Tongan and Samoan…I don’t doubt it…But I am very aware that in general the enmity continues…running out of time..

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  19. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Ohhh Kimbo, are you suggesting that PIs can only aspire to be cleaners if in parliament building? tsk tsk tsk.

    And I’m more that happy to vouch for David’s hospitality towards other ethnicities.

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  20. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Here’s a good story one of my employees told…When playing rugby in Samoa, the Tongan boys (they call themselves “boys” no matter what the age) had a code word to be used when nearing full time if they were winning…in such a situation their bus would edge onto the field, the codeword would be given, and all the team and its supporters would make for the bus…If they didn’t do that, and the final whistle blew with Tonga in the lead, a brawl would instantly break out between both of the teams and their supporters…actually now that I think of it, the guy who told me that story married a Samoan girl…sadly it didn’t last…

    Samoan and Tonga cultures are quite different you see (their languages are so different one cannot understand the other) and such marriages are as stressed as Tongan-Palangi ones…but then of course you knew all that…from Wikipedia…

    Ah, Wahine! Talofa!! do you believe Kimbo knew all along that I have …ah…an intimate connection with the Pacific? I think the fool is lying myself, and should probably stop digging…

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  21. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    Still not backing down after picking on the little people, David?

    She is a political non-combatant.

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  22. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    Kimbo, if, as you claim, you were aware of DG’s time in Tonga (and obviously not aware that he had a Tongan partner) then how do you explain the claim that DG had obviously never met any “Pasifika” people?

    When your in a hole, stop digging.

    I don’t see any attack on the women in question in David’s post, just a question.

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  23. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Oh let him dig Shawn. The lady in question is now one of the little people. What a condescending twat.

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  24. Bingo99 (94 comments) says:

    Actually, I agree with Kimbo’s point about keeping the slags directed at the politicians, not regular people.

    It was unwarranted by Garrett and, well, really just a shitty thing to do. Cunliffe? Sure, go for it. But leave the private citizens out of it. And really, commenting on anyone’s physical appearance is pretty bung. It’s like The Standard nutabgs going after DPF when he was a little, ahem, more rounded. Pointless. Petty.

    Though Kimbo is wrong about Garrett’s interaction with Pasifika people (or whatever you want to call it, and it’s a little remarkable he can’t distinguish between Maori and Pacific Islander given that interaction) focusing on that and then deviating to a whole argument on historical differences between some of them is a pretty obvious attempt to deflect from the original shitty comment about the woman’s appearance.

    Just apologise Garrett and move on.

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  25. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Dickhead: If you are, as you claim, a national voter, how do you know the ethnicity of the woman in the pic, much less that she is “involved at a low level of politics”??

    As Wahine has helpfully asked, do you assume all Pasifika people are at a low level in the Labour Party machine??

    Bingo: You c an believe it or not (I really don’t give a shit) but I had and still have no idea of the ethnicity of the person Cunliffe is cuddling up to…our friend Kimbo the National voter seems to think she is a “pasifika woman involved at a low level of politics”…to me, she looks to be very physically uncomfortable; rather than disability that may be because Cunliffe had just come up and grabbed her for his photo op, I dunno…Kimbo seems very imformed on this, so maybe she/he can tell us

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  26. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “Oh let him dig Shawn.”

    Ok! :)

    Personally I don’t think David meant anything by it, but he can defend himself well enough. Moving on.

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  27. Bingo99 (94 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, poor Cunliffe. He does realise it’s not really his choice, right?

    Seeing that picture of Shearer and Goff behind him today, makes you realise that at least those guys were decent and knew their stuff, even if one is a Clark leftover and the other couldn’t speak publicly to save himself. Cunliffe, well, what a shit.

    What I don’t get is, wasn’t Cunliffe always part of the right faction of Labour? Is he now seen as the left? Or am I wrong in my original assumption?

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  28. Bingo99 (94 comments) says:

    Stop being so disingenuous, Garrett. According to you, you can’t even tell her gender. I think 99% of people can work that out from the picture. Would you like us all to pass comment on your appearance?

    You said a shitty thing. You were called out on it. Stop being the grade A, stereotypical rightwing nutjob that the Left love to latch on to as representing the right. Leave regular people out of it and don’t hijack threads with your weak self-defense.

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  29. Jimbo (43 comments) says:

    David Garrett is a complete embarrassment. He continues to help the left.

    Either he is a sleeper agent for Hone Harawira or he’s seriously deluded in his efforts to promote his views.

    David Garrett was by far Rodney Hide’s worst decision (and there are a few!). He continues to tout himself as the hero of the 3 strikes law but that got through only because others fixed up his seriously flawed initial efforts.

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  30. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    I smell the stench of the invertebrates of no standards.
    the blog that bans PG for being a rwnj.

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  31. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Bingo: If you knew anything at all about the Pacific you would know two things: 1) the phenomenon of fa’fafine (in Samoa) and fakaleite (in tonga) is one of the things people notice in Pacific countries; transsexuals/transvestites are much more numerous than in our society; and 2) Pacfic women tend to be quite hirsute, at least in the face…for obvious reasons I don’t want to elaborate on that…suffice it to say that if you – like your mate – had any real knowledge of the Pacific you would know that…

    You can believe it or not – again I don’t give a shit – I was genuinely unaware both that the person was a woman, and that she was “pasifika”…which as I have said, is a term beloved of Auckland academics, but is unknown about the hoi polloi of Tonga and Samoa…not so certain about Fiji…

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  32. Reid (16,743 comments) says:

    Why is Cunliffe in so ultra tight with the unions? Anyone know?

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  33. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Reid – I don’t know if he’s ultra tight with the unions, or close at all. He got close enough to get most of their votes to secure the leadership. Apart from that he seems quite flexible.

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  34. WineOh (636 comments) says:

    If Cunliffe loses, he’ll be out. The unions et al are putting on a brave face, but they hate losing too & will dump him. Why would he want to persevere with another 3 years in opposition facing down his caucus every couple of days. He, and the rest of NZ would be much better off if he disappeared back into ‘strategising’ somewhere else.

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  35. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Griff: Yes, I smell a few invertabrates from the swamp myself…perhaps they are here under orders from the Politiburo; “Farrar is belittling our Glorious Leader…Attaaaaaack!!!”

    PG: “Flexible”!! I suppose that’s one word for someone who says different things depending on the audience, and even adopts the accent he thinks will make him most persuasive…the guy is an epic failure, let’s not beat around the bush…

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  36. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Unions just want National out. I don’t think they believe they’re behind labour or cunliffe. Hell they’d vote for Mickey Mouse if they thought it would get rid of Key.

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  37. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Wahine: What’s the word from the rohe up north?? Are they going to vote for Hone or for Kelvin Davis? I was very impressed by Kelvin when we were both there…

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  38. Reid (16,743 comments) says:

    Well if he think’s he’s staying then someone is telling him they support him and that someone is apparently, the unions. But why has Cunliffe got their support? Why?

    Why don’t they support Robertson for example.

    Cunliffe is such a loser, that’s clear. So what has he told the unions, to get their support?

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  39. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Cunliffe and the unions is more likely to be an association of convenience rather than a close connection. Cunliffe simply doesn’t seem the union type, even when he’s trying to act the part.

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  40. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    The subject of the blog is “Cunliffe won’t go if he loses”! Why are we having losers like David Garrett waffling on about everything but the subject blog? He makes out like he’s the only person who knows anything about Pacific Islands. David, there are many of us who have lived and worked in the Pacific for years, not only Samoa & Tonga, but also Fiji, PNG and Solomons, both North and South! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing when you want to make out that you know all there is to know!! Stick to the subject, David. Cunliffe won’t go if he loses! He won’t have a choice!!

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  41. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    David, there was a swing towards Davis and then the mana party office was shot at in kaitaia. And because the police have been so slow in investigating it, so there’s been a swing of sympathy towards harawira.

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  42. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Shit, we really do have an invasion from the swamp tonight!! Note to fools: People with 27 or 48 comments are generally not PLU…but welcome! Unlike your spiritual home, DPF welcomes all creeds and opinions…you can even slag us regulars off and he won’t ban you…A phenomenon that will confuse you, I know…it’s called “free speech” you see, which means anyone can have a go…

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  43. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Wahine: What is your sense about Harawira’s shot office? Is it a cunning plan on the part of he and the bros to get sympathy, or is it a genuine “We don’t like you and your message Hone”??

    If you ask me it is probably the latter…but then I am not very fond of Hone the racist…(his observations about the “blackness” of my wife never bothered me…I thought they were amusing)

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  44. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    “Shit, we really do have an invasion from the swamp tonight!! ”

    That’s almost Redbaiter level irony. At times you’re getting as bad as some of the worst elsewhere DG. The nastiness you sometimes resort to isn’t a good look for Kiwiblog so don’t think you’re in a position to speak on behalf of KB. Like the rest of us you’re just one guest here.

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  45. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Not instigated by hone. But someone from the inner sanctum who feels betrayed over a recent treaty settlement.

    And on a slightly different path… Mangere seat will be interesting to watch. If PI churches have their way, congregations won’t be voting labour.

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  46. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    PG; You probably identify with Cunliffe and his apology for having a cock and balls…I make no such apology…as I have said before, the height of your political achievement is hosting a few meetings with the coiffed one at the lectern …I am perfectly content to stand on my own record…a couple earlier have said that 3S is in law despite rather than because of my efforts…they are entitled to that opinion…like DPF I am a great believer in free speech..

    Wahine: Is that right? so they will unseat Sio and vote National do you mean??

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  47. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    yip this is a liberal blog and you really have to push the boundaries of reasonable behavior to cope a oneweek ban.
    as some of us have. :lol:
    Over at the standard less I understand that the boundaries are ill defined and arbitrary and a simple post disagreeing with the moderators views can get you banned for life.
    DG for all his myriad faults is a value contributor to debate on here and sometimes gets to guest post at DPF’s invite.To see the newbies attacking him stinks of a astro turf from the authoritarian swamp of the left.

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  48. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    The only people highjacking this thread are the idiots attacking David.

    Give it a rest, move on.

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  49. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Once he’s taken down to the cellar of Trades Hall he’ll go…one way or the other! :)

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  50. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “Why is Cunliffe in so ultra tight with the unions? Anyone know?”

    It was the only way he could get elected leader, as his own caucus generally did not want him, for what are now obvious reasons.

    The Unions see their power and relevance declining fast, and are desperate to get their man in so they can rig the system to their benefit.

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  51. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    DG – again you make totally incorrect assumptions in your first two claims, you’re making shit up. Again, you seem to be making a habit of it. Belief in speech is fine, I believe in that to a fair extent too – but with that comes responsibilities, especially when you’re using someone else’s facilities.

    If DG set some sot of responsible example here there might be some justification for his griping but it smacks of “do as I demand, not as I do”.

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  52. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    David… PIs in south auckland are more conservative in their thinking than your average right winged voter. Family and church values mean everything. And unlike their pale brothers, your average PI dominate male of the family will have no issues about telling his family to vote.

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  53. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Completely off topic chaps (but I think DPF will forgive me) we are experiencing wild weather out here in the rural sector…5 power outages since 5 pm… so if I fail to respond to some dickhead having a go, please believe it is the weather, and not that I am lost for words..

    Now be honest PG…when Cunliffe apologised for being a man, something inside of you – the bit that thinks we have a ‘rape culture’ to which most NZ men adhere – said “Hurrah! You said it David!”

    Am I right??

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  54. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    Oh for goodness sakes give a rest Pete, your pompousness is getting seriously boring, and the adults are trying to discuss the actual thread topic.

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  55. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Be fair here DG. Petes ex leader never actually raped Andrea Vance. He just fancied her a tad! :)

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  56. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    Northland Wahine

    Will the redirected PI vote go to National or the Conservatives?

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  57. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    DG – no, totally wrong. As soon as I heard him say it I knew he had made a major stuff-up and no, I don’t agree with what he said. It will bite him more than any of his other gaffes. I’ve commented and posted quite a bit about this.

    Making shit up and repeating it when told you’re wrong is just shitty dissing. I agree with Griff, sometimes your contributions here are worthwhile, but you detract from that by being an arsehole too often with too much blatant abusive bullshit.

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  58. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Fuck. Minus monster is slow tonight!! :)

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  59. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    Even with the backing of the unions and other groups, I seriously doubt Cunliffe will survive a defeat. Maybe if he had made a good attempt at campaigning he might have been able to hang on, but after the long and ever growing series of foot in mouth gaffes I can’t see it.

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  60. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I of course have fancied various ladies here….. None of whom have returned the pleasure I might add.

    Perhaps it’s my lack of a hairstyle that’s put them off? :)

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  61. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    PG: I believe you are past 60….an age to which I am uncomfortably close myself…”dissing” is an abbreviation for “disrespecting”, which is a word known to the yoof, but not the Concise Oxford..

    A wee hint for free: As the father of one teenage girl and a boy close behind, adopting “yoof speak” just makes them think you are a dickhead, not that you are hip…

    Shawn: I think it rather depends on what the unions and “activists” think doesn’t it? That’s what DPF seems to think, and he is arguably better informed than either you or I…

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  62. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    My observations swing to National. If the conservatives had a prominent PI candidate, things may be different.

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  63. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    I’m confused DG/NW.

    Are you guys at it or not?

    (I love a romance :oops: )

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  64. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    DG – you’re are making things up again, or you’re just wrong again.

    And as for ‘dissing’, it’s is a term that’s been used on Kiwiblog for some time as far as I’m aware. And it’s in the Oxford:

    1980s: abbreviation of disrespect.
    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/dis?q=diss

    ‘Yoof’ weren’t alive in the 1980s.

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  65. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    Perhaps it’s my lack of a hairstyle that’s put them off?

    Is that what drove you to wool JB?

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  66. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,705 comments) says:

    Aaaaaaaaaaah! Such a joy to see the fat little termite being slowly exterminated.

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  67. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “I think it rather depends on what the unions and “activists” think doesn’t it?”

    Oh sure, I agree with that. I just wonder that, even with their power, how much of a hard sell to the rest of the party that will be given Cunliffes horrible performance so far.

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  68. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I always wanted to be a QC DV. It’s the frustration that drove me to hate them so! :)

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  69. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    DVM: Wahine and I are close personal friends…will that do?

    And much as this will pain Kimbo (the National voter) Wahine is, as her handle suggests, a member of the large northern tribe of the tangata whenua…

    If she can be bothered, I think she would probably agree with my comments on the supposed “pasifika”; those people from different Island groups who all just love each other…

    Now where’s that Kimbo chap gone?? You see, if I was him – and god knows I have made enough blunders in my life – I would just say “I fucked it up Garrett; I didn’t know you had such familiarity with Tonga”…but “national voters” such as he have such great trouble with saying something like that…

    Now how do I bring this back to Cunliffe?? Does anyone know if he has “pasifika” advisors on his staff? Or does he just grab them at every opportunity for a photo op??

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  70. stigie (1,458 comments) says:

    “Perhaps it’s my lack of a hairstyle that’s put them off?” :)

    Please put up photo of hairstyle Johnboy so we can judge for ourselves !~

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  71. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Can you just carefully define “close” and “personal” a little more closely and personally for us lascivious bastards that really love a good old dirty story please DG? :)

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  72. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    I believe they did but it was but a ship in the night tdvm

    The dusky maiden has moved far far away from the ranch.

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  73. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Photos+of+bald+men&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=JaC7U-2dOsn2kAWqpoCQDg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1512&bih=916

    Take your pick Stigie! :)

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  74. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    David G. @ 5.48

    Got to agree that’s there’s a lack of deep love amongst the Polynesian groupings.

    An obscene number of years ago I used to work as a driver & three or four times a year Saturday’s job was to cart hay over to the various horse fanatics in the Hutt Valley. Job over we’d pile into one of the booze barns once finished.

    There was always a gap (sometimes a couple of leaners) between the Tongans & Samoans then another gap to the Europeans, Maori, Cook & Tokes. It was treated as a no-mans land.

    Anecdotally, Todd Motors apparently had to segregate different departments by ethnicity otherwise fights would break out on the factory floor.

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  75. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Yep David, the idea that all PIs and Maori are one big happy brown family is a farce.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know of couples and friends that cross the cultural boundary but they are more the exception than the rule. Normally, island ethnicities marry within their own, and as for Maori? Hell we’re still fighting amongst ourselves over land claims let alone anyone else.

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  76. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Nasska: Yes indeed…back in the ’70’s when “pasifika” immigration was at its height, I believe little old ladies from the various Islands would fight each other at the bus stops…so a generally understood division grew up” “tongan” bus stops were different from “Samoan”, and “Niue” only had one bus stop per several miles…

    But now they all just love each other, and just love to hear each other sing at the Pasifika festival at Western Springs…at least until the beer and wine starts to flow…

    Griff: She was always a long way from the ranch…but you know…some things are worth traveling for…Lets just say that when we get the chance we stimulate each other on “many different levels”…the lefties just looove “levels”

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  77. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    If you and Dave are getting it on NW I think you are making one fine couple to be honest! :)

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  78. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Have Tongans stopped chasing Savu’s down the streets of Otara with machetes then?

    The power of love is absolutely wonderful! :)

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  79. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Griff, oh Griff… The not so dusky maiden has resided in the Deep South auckland for 30 years. Having a little chuckle tho.

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  80. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Griff: Actually it is one of the barriers to our “going further”…she is not dusky enough!!

    But where’s that Kimbo chap gone? Feeling like a right Charlie perhaps, to borrow from Rowan Atkinson??

    JB: And for the benefit of the yoof who may be here but not feeling able to contribute…pitched battles in the streets of Otara between Samoans and Tongans, each armed with sharp machetes WAS in fact a feature of the 70’s… for the most part they now just try and kill each other on the ruby league field…

    But then of course Kimbo and his mates will know all of that…

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  81. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    One should never let either colour nor the lack of it get in the way of a good root I say! :)

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  82. goldnkiwi (1,617 comments) says:

    Or a bad one as some others might say ;)

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  83. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    You’re truly one of the last of the great romantics JB. :)

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  84. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Nasska, I have no doubt JB shags both white and black ewes!

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  85. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Quite regular those pitched battles used to be in the old days. Times have changed for the better I suppose.

    Much fun they were for us civilised folk though…. Sort of like Bear Baiting/Cock Fighting! :)

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  86. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    JB: Who said anything about rooting?? In the right kind of candle light Wahine looks distinctly Tongan…

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  87. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    And the odd Goat!

    Only the very odd one’s mind you! :)

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  88. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Would that be her candle labrias DG? :)

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  89. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    ….”I have no doubt JB shags both white and black ewes!”…..

    And a sick dog at the end of a chain Northland Wahine…..he’s not a fussy man. :)

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  90. Keeping Stock (9,384 comments) says:

    @ Northland Wahine (6.58pm) – good point. John Key addressed a crowd of well over 500 in Mangere today, and was enthusiastically received. He had Sam Lotu-Iiga and Alfred Ngaro with him, along with Mangere candidate Misa Fia Misa-turner. I can’t see National beating Su’a William Sio in Mangere, but I am picking they will take a huge chunk out of his majority. The PI community and vote is no longer Labour’s by right.

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  91. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    smacks JB over the head with a candelabrum!

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  92. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH

    Kimbo, if, as you claim, you were aware of DG’s time in Tonga (and obviously not aware that he had a Tongan partner) then how do you explain the claim that DG had obviously never met any “Pasifika” people?

    David Garrett was an ACT MP. Ignorant prejudice and stereotype (hence my use of the phrase “cheap shot”) would reduce him to the caricature of a rich prick who knows nothing about what happens in Pacific Island communities.

    just as

    David Garrett’s original post reduces a simple Labour Party member down to a bunch of demographics, some insulting “can’t tell the sex…disabled?”

    Now, focus on that point, ShawnLH, because I think you’ll note that DG still continues to evade it. Someone who is likely a proud but insignificant low-level Labour Party member – whose politics you, DG and I probably all disagree with, but nonetheless she is a Kiwi participating in the democratic process and deserves respect for that – has been singled out for insulting comments. THAT is the point at issue.

    Since that matter has been brought to David Garrett’s attention, then we’ve had a series of half truths, evasions, and irrelevancies posing as bon mots such as: –

    “In fact the Samoans hate the Tongans” Really? All of them? Not “some”, “many” or “most”?

    – An ideologically loaded and irrelevant objection to the neutral phrase “Pasifika”, which has become mainstream in New Zealand vocab and means nothing other than Pacific Island Polynesians, usually resident in New Zealand.

    “Now just in case you think the early Maori were the only cannibals in the Pacific…” Relevance?

    “Here’s a good story one of my employees told…When playing rugby in Samoa,…” Relevance, and also general applicability? DG obviously hasn’t spent much time at my Auckland rugby club where, for some 30 years Palagi/Pakeha, Maori, and Pacific Islanders thrive together. Maybe someone better warn Steve Hansen and the All Blacks of David Garrett’s rich sociological insights.

    “1) the phenomenon of fa’fafine (in Samoa) and fakaleite (in tonga)…2) Pacfic women tend to be quite hirsute…” Has anyone ever suggested that maybe David Garret should just shut the fuck up, and keep his pointless thoughts and feeble justifications for writing something really rude, arrogant and stupid in the first place to himself?

    If you are, as you claim, a national voter, how do you know the ethnicity of the woman in the pic, much less that she is “involved at a low level of politics”??” Which is not only

    a misquotation (I said “I think she is a Pacific Islander”),

    a failure of logic (why would a National Party voter from West Auckland who went to school, played sport, worked, went to church and has relatives and/or friends who are Maori and/or Pasifika not be able to pick a Pacific islander from a Maori, and more to the point, what does ones political views have to do with the ability to do so?!),

    but also bait-switching (if she is a well know high-level Labour Party office holder, don’t you figure we would quickly have a good idea of who she is?)

    Instead, she is most likely someone’s Mum, someone’s wife, someone’s grand mum who was proud to be photographed with her Party leader -and good luck to her, even if her politics are mistaken IMHO – I speak as a fomer Labour Party voter AND member-

    and then some arsehole comes along a few days later and dumps on her proud moment for what? To make a cheap point in a political echo chamber. What a guy! You want to take a shot at David Cunliffe? Go for it! Russell Norman and Meteria Turei, Hone, and Harre? Fair enough! They are on a ballot or are out front and center.

    But it takes someone with poor judgement, and psychopathic tendencies (“again I don’t give a shit”)- the sort of qualities, btw. that maybe see you steal and identity, even though it could cause immense pain to the family involved – to take a shot at a little person

    …and then obfuscate, change the topic, and deny when you are called out over the matter.

    David – the woman did not deserve to have her gender called into question (if you didn’t know what is was, then just shut up about it like polite inoffensive people do), and neither for a cheap quip did you have to question if she was disabled.

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  93. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I’ve always enjoyed having my head buried in a Labriabum! :)

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  94. Mobile Michael (476 comments) says:

    Just from memory, Clark, Bolger, Kirk, Holyoake, Nash, and Holland lost an election and went on to become Prime Minister.

    Holyoake has the distinction of being the only leader since the formation of Labour and National to lose an election as PM, and return as PM at the following election.

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  95. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock, I agree. And as young PI become more educated, the more that gap will close. Maori could learn a lot from our PI communities.

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  96. Reid (16,743 comments) says:

    Just from memory, Clark, Bolger, Kirk, Holyoake, Nash, and Holland lost an election and went on to become Prime Minister.

    Yeah but that was before the whole country hated their guts.

    It’s too late now for Cunliffe. The people have spoken, and he’ll never be PM, not in eleventy gajillion years times infinity plus one.

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  97. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    They have to be freshly washed of course! :)

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  98. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    The teachers are voting for him Reid. Surely that will make a difference? :)

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  99. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    Kimbo the rest of us have long since moved on, and you fantasies about what you think David said are of absolutely no interest to me.

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  100. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH

    Thought I quoted him accurately. But then if you don’t like the answer…don’t ask the question, especially when you aren’t witty enough to pull off “rhetorical”.

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  101. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Kimbo spent a lot of time putting that pile of obsessional shit together ShawnLH. You could at least give him one for effort! :)

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  102. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “Kimbo spent a lot of time putting that pile of obsessional shit together”

    I’m sure he did, but after the first paragraph I started falling asleep, so…….. :)

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  103. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    If only he’d probed deeply into DG and NW’s relationship!

    We’d all wake up and be alert to read that story! :)

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  104. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I’m just jealous really.

    I could have heaps of females that posted to support me like NW does for David.

    It’s just that sheep can’t type! :)

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  105. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH

    I’m sure he did, but after the first paragraph I started falling asleep, so……

    I was thinking of using crayons so you could follow better – but given your tendency to eat them I decided otherwise.

    Next time I’ll use puppets. Just promise not to continually check if they have willies…

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  106. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy

    Kimbo spent a lot of time putting that pile of obsessional shit together ShawnLH. You could at least give him one for effort!

    Fair enough Johnboy. But seeing as you seem like the sort of guy who gets his kicks out of arseholes like David Garrett picking on the defenceless, far be it from me to get in the way of your fun…

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  107. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    Ok Kimbo,

    It’s your opinion that he was attacking her. I read it as just an innocent question. You have your view, I and others have ours. End of story.

    If your too immature to deal with that, then that is your problem, not mine or JB’s. So keep your infantile insults to yourself, because there are dragons in the world, and you boy, are not one of them.

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  108. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    Is ShawnLH retarded, a masturbator, or just particularly obtuse?

    Innocent question?

    While you are figuring that out, in the meantime I suggest you give your advice to someone who respects your “view”, and the mental processes and capacity by which you reach it.

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  109. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (901 comments) says:

    OK bros. I had enough of this clown. DPF – you are a mate of John Key. Can you somehow convince uncle Key to remain focussed, not bored? Also throw him a challenge that he should secure a record 4th term. With all the clowns around, a fourth term is a certainty if Key wants it.

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  110. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Kimbo, Kimbo, where ya gonna go-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, whatcha gonna do-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, does your mommy know
    That you’re goin’ on the blog to sort out little Davieo.

    Kimbo is a little boy who’s only got two friends
    Bingo and Jimbo they like to make amends
    He’ll knash his teeth and sing and dance, and talk his baby talk,
    With his two mates to help him
    he’s just big enough to walk.

    Kimbo, Kimbo, where ya gonna go-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, whatcha gonna do-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, does your mommy know
    That you’re goin’ on the blog to sort out little Davieo.

    Kimbo’s got a great big mouth that opens wide and far,
    And the way to make it open up by picking on the tars.
    Crackerjacks and Honkey digs will start his day off right,
    And Bingo and Jimbo will back him in his fight.

    Kimbo, Kimbo, eggy on your face-e-o,
    Kimbo, Kimbo, spewin’ on your spleen-e-o.
    Kimbo, Kimbo, when you gonna know
    That none of us actually really give a shit-e-o. :)

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  111. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    So originality is not your strong point either?

    One more question. If you don’t give a “shit-e-o”, then how come it took you 5 long painful verses to say it?

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  112. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I just have a poetic/musical bent and Kimbo, Jimbo and Bingo just seem far to contrived for me to resist. :)

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  113. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Not suggesting that you’re an utter wanker that posts under three different names at all of course! :)

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  114. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    It is possible that you are just Kimbo and you only have two friends in the world called Jimbo and Bingo I suppose! :)

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  115. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Of course Cunliffe would never go from the leader of the opposition’s salary and perks.

    Just look at Len Brown’s shining example. Why fall on your sword, when it’s more fun to stroke it back erect?
    (And the public for some reason tolerates this!)

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  116. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    It is possible that you are just Kimbo and you only have two friends in the world called Jimbo and Bingo I suppose!

    Three problems with that theory, Johnboy

    1. Kimbo, Jimbo and Bingo are just a bit too obvious, even if I’m trying to pull one over ShawnLH

    2. Given your enthusiastic but limited capacity for Irish melody and brogue, I’m guessing Jimbo and Bingo are your alter egos.

    3. Do I strike you as the sort of person who has any friends?!

    Now those last three post were worth waiting for. Time to call it an evening. “Good night Johnboy…Good night Grandpa…Good night Mary Allen…”

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  117. Kimbo (1,265 comments) says:

    But on second thoughts, what does it mean when someone chooses the moniker of an inbred TV character from the mountains of Depression-era rural Virginia?

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  118. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Kimbo, Kimbo, where ya gonna go-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, whatcha gonna do-e-o
    Kimbo, Kimbo, does your mommy know
    That you’re going’ down the road to screw a little ewe e o.

    couldn’t resist.

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  119. Bingo99 (94 comments) says:

    Sweet jesus this place is almost as bad as The Standard. Though I gotta say I’m surprised Redbaiter hasn’t contributed.

    Sorry to say fellas but Kimbo and I are separate people altogether. Though just to feed the sad sack fire, excellent post above, Kimbo, ripping Garrett a new one. PG, nicely said too.

    I’m starting to see a disturbing pattern in his personality. Because he’s the kind of dude who rips into a member of the public for her appearance. Arsehole. Because, you know, Garrett’s such a stunner himself.

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  120. Fisiani (1,052 comments) says:

    Even when the next poll shows Labour in the low 20’s Cunliffe will never admit that he is the problem. Robertson does not have the courage to roll him as he knows he will lose in September. Robertson has always assumed he would inherit the job after Sept. Cunliffe will blame the media. Get the popcorn ready. This will be fun.

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  121. PaulL (5,451 comments) says:

    Back on topic, I did wonder whether this could be a prompt for Robertson to roll him now. Argument being that they’re going to lose anyway, and Robertson could win the caucus vote after the election (therefore no union vote). Robertson just needs a good enough story that he’s “saving the furniture” a la Rudd, and he’d be able to do it.

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  122. Fisiani (1,052 comments) says:

    Robertson is desperate to be leader and his only option is for Labour to lose so badly that Cunliffe will have to stand down. Last time he managed to lose the Party Vote to National and the Greens. He will do so again.

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  123. lolitasbrother (774 comments) says:

    agree with PaulL [ two above ] this is a hopeless situation for Cunliffe. He is not of a real world. But Labour must take the medicine, and appoint gay or trade union after election so we can continue laughing at them

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  124. PaulL (5,451 comments) says:

    In other words, for Robertson it might be now or never. He has a path to the leadership of Labour now (if not to the prime ministership), this information suggests he doesn’t have a path to leadership after the election.

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  125. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    KeyLiffe and Mallard: three troughers only half through their political careers

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  126. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    “The people have spoken, and he’ll never be PM, not in eleventy gajillion years times infinity plus one.”

    I wish I could think of some awesome prose like this to describe Sue Moroney’s secret fantasy of following her hero H Clarke to the PM’s office. She haas the termerity and obnoxiousness and time is on her side. She spends a few minutes each night before sleep thinking of voices promoting her and how she will flush with shyness as she accepts her parties candicacy as she wallows in her red eiderdown.

    In the real world she knows her career will outlast the longest of the troughers including Winston, Mallard and most of the Labour front bench. Her real concern are the youthful Greens who can compete with her for senior positions. I’m sure she’s often seen at their BBQ’s consolidating futures.

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  127. doggone7 (850 comments) says:

    Is John Key going if he loses?

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  128. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Jeeze I’d forgotten about this! No denials from Jimbo then! :)

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  129. Francis_X (147 comments) says:

    Have to agree with Kimbo, Garrett’s calling people’s gender into question was a low-blow. But if that’s what passes for intelligent debate here, well, I’ll stick to watching infomercials on TV. Not as many WTF moments.

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