General Debate 4 August 2014

August 4th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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245 Responses to “General Debate 4 August 2014”

  1. hj (6,807 comments) says:

    Lord Vestey who owned the Weddell supermarket chain in the UK, was the owner of NZSC up until 1990.
    Vestey used his substantial land holdings in Australia, NZ, Argentina in conjunction with his meat companies to move his frozen meat products to the UK.. In Australia his meat companies were C.Q.M.E in Rockhampton and N.Q.M.E in Townsville and in NZ it was Westfield ( Auckland ) Tammona ( Hawkes Bay).
    Vestey shipping portfolio at the time contained Blue Star & A.C.T.A shipping line.
    Unfortunately in the 1980’s Vestey had moved into real estate development and the high land values saw him borrow against these heady property values. The stock market crash on October 14th 1988, saw the Vestey group liquidate their land and meat works in Australia ( meat works now owned by Packer and his company Consolidated Meat Holdings ) and NZ, ( now owned by A.F.F.C.O, Auckland Farmers Freezing Co-operative ) it was in 1990 that the Vestey group sold NZ Line & Blue Star to P&O, the only NZ Line vessel operating at time of sale was the NZ Mariner, which travelled between Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, Wellington, Lyttelton.
    The name NZSC went through many incarnations with the late Prime Minister of NZ Mr Norm Kirk who died in office (1967) the principle driving force for creating a New Zealand owned shipping company ( Shipping Corporation of New Zealand later on it became New Zealand Shipping Corporation or short for NZSC under Vestey ) Norm Kirk’s plan was to increase the value added component of NZ primary products ” a man a head of his time ” as witnessed by the Japanese ” Sogo Shosu ” concept of vertical integrated business and Vestey himself. There were two vessels put in service, the first vessel was the Meadowbank, ( the second vessel, the name escapes me ) some sources said they were procured from Bank & Saville line whilst others have said the Bank Line. ( we would be interested to know ) This government sponsored idea was plagued with confrontationally disputes, mores the pity. It was Vestey who brought the remnants of SCNZ and changed the name to NZSC and then to NZ Line

    http://www.newzealandshipping.co.nz/History/Comments/Archives/1999.htm

    But at the same time as they were mixing with royalty, the family were also benefiting from a massive – and completely legal – tax avoidance scheme. Since the earliest days, Edmund and William had developed an obsession with taxation which they feared would be the ruin of their business. They wrote to the Prime Minister, David Lloyd George, demanding that they be exempt from income tax. King George V was so appalled by this behaviour, in the darkest days of the first world war, that he opposed William becoming a baron, but William handed over £20,000 to Lloyd George and got the title anyway.
    And when the prime minister still refused to play ball, the family reacted first by going into tax exile in Argentina, then by setting up an elaborate avoidance scheme centred on a Paris trust which was the bane of Inland Revenue investigators for more than 60 years. “Trying to come to grips with the Vesteys over tax,” one tax officer who attempted to take on the Vesteys is reputed to have said at the time, “is like trying to squeeze a rice pudding.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/aug/11/features11.g2

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  2. Other_Andy (2,562 comments) says:

    I wonder how long before Yoza will be back after trawling the Islamic supremacist and neo Nazi sites for made up slander about the evil Jews slaughtering innocent babies.
    I suppose everybody is trying to do his bit for the ultimate solution. Some do the actual dirty work, others make sure the trains run on time and we have people like Yoza to tell everybody that what they ultimately want isn’t really what you, not too deep down, know it is.

    They all play their part diverting the blame of the current bloodshed.
    The ‘Palestinian refugee’ in New Zealand using his daughters (Now where have we seen this before?) for political ends. The angry, shouting, Israeli flag burning Mana supporters, ‘refugees’ and foreign students trying to import this conflict into New Zealand. The Herald, TVNZ and TV3 reporters dutifully publishing, showing and reading out Hamas approved statements and pictures.

    But whoever you are and whatever you say or do, don’t blame those who actually started it all and keep it going.
    And when you point that all out, people like Yoza will come around and duly tell you it is not those who actually started it all and keep it going but it is those evil baby killing Jews that are to blame.

    It is only about the Zionists killing people in Gaza. And when that stops ….
    It is about the blockade of Gaza. And when that stops ….
    It is about the checkpoints at the border of Gaza. And when that stops ….
    It is about Palestinian prisoners. And when they are set free ….
    It is about the wall. And when that is gone ….
    It is about the ‘West Bank’. And when they have that ….
    It is about the checkpoints at the ‘West Bank’. And when they are gone ….
    It is about East Jerusalem. And when they have that ….
    It is Jerusalem. And when they have that ….
    It is about Palestinian refugees. And when they are ‘back’ ….
    It is about the 1967 borders. And when they are re-established ….
    It is about the 1948 border. And when they are re-established ….
    It is about Zionist Israel. And when they have made Zionist Israel history….
    It is about the Jews.

    And when we are at the last step people like Yoza will throw up their hands (“Ich habe das nicht gewusst”) and say, but I only trawled the Islamic supremacist and neo Nazi sites for made up slander about the evil Jews slaughtering innocent babies, don’t blame me.
    And you know Yoza, f**** that, I am calling you out.
    I am not going shrug my shoulders, ignore it and let you get away with that, no discussion, end of story!

    And before anybody starts, it is not the making excuses for and defending Hamas, although bad enough, it is people like Yoza who go that one step further and wilfully distribute slandering fascist porn.

    Not sure why DPF is alright with this stuff being distributed through his site.

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  3. hj (6,807 comments) says:

    While Federated Farmers supports positive overseas investment into New Zealand’s farming system, it is concerned the potential sale of Lochinver Station to Shanghai Pengxin Group Co. Limited, may not provide sufficient benefit to New Zealand.
    “Since there is no requirement to publicly notify applications to the Overseas Investment Office, Federated Farmers is frankly uneasy about the potential sale of Lochinver Station to Shanghai Pengxin,” says Dr William Rolleston, Federated Farmers President.
    “New Zealand absolutely needs foreign investment but it has to be of benefit to the local and national economy.
    “That is why a ‘substantial and identifiable benefit’ test was incorporated into the overseas investment decision tree, further bolstered in 2012 by a High Court decision adding a “with and without” counterfactual test.
    “This was to ensure any investment, such as the one being proposed, has benefit over and above just making a farm work better. Since Lochinver Station is highly regarded in farming circles there must be something very special and we are keen to know what that is.
    “Given the location of these farms to Shanghai Pengxin’s other landholdings, it will increase speculation that vertical integration by way of processing could be on the cards.

    http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/farmers-concerned-over-lochinver-sale/5/198138
    Jiang has 70 land titles in NZ under a company NZ milk which is a “person” for legal purposes.

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  4. duggledog (1,494 comments) says:

    A great example of the NZ Herald’s detachment from reality is their continuation of the headline on what is starting to look like ‘Our Millie’. It’s really sad and everything but she was hardly the People’s Princess. Someone tell the luvvies please

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  5. dirty harry (446 comments) says:

    I see Millie Molly Holmes in the news again…this time her boyfriend beaten to death in Auckland. She doesn’t seem to have much luck. Bit of an embarrassment if you ask me. Stupid girl.

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  6. big bruv (13,675 comments) says:

    I note that there is to be a 100 gun salute this morning in Wellington to commemorate the beginning of WWI. It is at times like this that I am proud to have a PM like John Key. Key is a man who understands sacrifice, a man who will treat the commemoration with the respect it is due.

    How things would be different if we were still under the corrupt Klark regime. She who could never be bothered getting up early to attend Dawn Parade, she who spat on soldiers, she who screamed “baby killers” at our returning men. I disliked Klark for many reasons but her totally hypocrisy when it came to our military is one of the major reasons I think she was, and is, nothing more than a piece of shit.

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  7. Left Right and Centre (2,910 comments) says:

    Otago Uni public health research – another day, another lot of unknowable numbers plucked out of thin air . . .

    Kiwis would gain an extra 0.7kg each year were it not for the Heart Foundation’s tick, researchers say.

    Aha – really ? And that’s 700g *each year*. So if you were age twenty when the pretty tick first appeared 22 years ago – *without* the tick you would’ve gained 15.4kg in that time.

    I’m sorry – this has just got to be a total load of old bulldust – how did they come up with such utter nonsensical number buggery, huh ?

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  8. stephieboy (2,641 comments) says:

    ” The current chief investigator, Keith Conradi, is an appointee of former Transport Minister Andrew Adonis, an orphan who rose though the ranks of Labour as a protege of Evelyn de Rothschild and his political operative Peter Mandelson. Sir Evelyn has a key role in the dynastic fortune as honorary chairman at the NM Rothschild & Sons, an investment bank in the City of London. The Rothschild fingerprints on both Malaysian Air incidents are too extensive to be mere coincidence but are instead indicative of a pattern related to their geopolitical objectives of upgrading Israeli military technology and extending control over banking and energy resources, especially in target countries Russia and Iran.”

    This posted on Trade me this morning re Flight M17 ..Ugly Truth,Reid ,wiki and EAD will just love it. It has David Icke or Jeff Resne etc delusional paranoia written over it.! .

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  9. hj (6,807 comments) says:

    Nihilism?

    Paul Walker, being a good economist and in the country, makes a number of salient points about this attitude:

    Let me make a couple of points here. For efficiency reasons we want resources to be in the hands of those who value them most highly and the way to do that is sell them to the highest bidder.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/70000000-benefits-from-the-sale-of-lochinver-station-to-chinese-interests/
    A Biafran hasn’t eaten for two weeks and wants to by the pork chop at aroadside stall. Along comes a tourist who hasn’t eaten for 3 hours. The tourist buys it (values it more).

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  10. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    Not sure why DPF is alright with this stuff being distributed through his site.
    For the same reason he lets wingnuts post climate change denial Other Andy.
    Ich habe das nicht gewusst
    I was only trolling anti science blogs.
    ….EH…..

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  11. iMP (2,350 comments) says:

    Now we have a race in Epsom. Fascinating. Young man vs mature woman; Liberal vs Conservative; Act vs Consv.

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  12. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    The hate campaign against John Key and National (and Labour) continues after Green Party members were linked to earlier hoarding defacements continues in Dunedin. The latest includes obscene graffiti, juxtaposed with Green messages of love.

    Greens promoting love, practicing hate?

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  13. SGA (982 comments) says:

    Other_Andy at 8:01 am

    I wonder how long before Yoza will be back after trawling the Islamic supremacist and neo Nazi sites for made up slander about the evil Jews slaughtering innocent babies.

    Well… I’d say your “preemptive strike” almost guarantees it won’t take long :-)

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  14. Simon (727 comments) says:

    Dont mind Griff he is a shut in. He needs a little understanding. Starting to think as well as being a shut in drugs might have cooked his brain.

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  15. Viking2 (11,344 comments) says:

    Supporters of Act have laid a complaint with Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy over an Auckland Council plan that the party calls racist for putting the rights of Maori above the property rights of all Aucklanders.

    The complaint – prepared by former Act MP Stephen Franks and on behalf of Lee Short – focuses on a part of the council’s Proposed Auckland Unitary Plan.

    “The council may require the landowner to protect natural features by providing appropriate access to any sites and places of significance to Mana Whenua, [and] providing for cultural harvest by Mana Whenua in accordance with tikanga Maori,” the draft plan says.

    The complaint says the plan’s purpose “is to enable them [Mana Whenua] to seek rights to enter private property to carry out a cultural activity”.

    It asks Dame Susan to tell the council that the plan unjustifiably impinges upon property rights, and to draw attention to the damaging effect that “racially discriminatory” schemes can have on race relations.

    It furthers asks Dame Susan to “remind Auckland Council and the Government of the risks to racial harmony posed by such schemes”.

    Auckland Mayor Len Brown last night declined to comment.

    The office of Dame Susan did not respond to requests for comment.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11303488
    =====================
    Imagine that Devoy couldn’t even understand the complaint. As i said before just another dumb sports body.

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  16. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    simon simon simon
    Its a glorious morning
    The view over auckland gives stunning vista with the soft white fog shaded hills and glisten water.
    Poor me having a little farm to spend my shut in days on.
    While the lucky and free get to sit in a 3×3 cubical all day.

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  17. hj (6,807 comments) says:

    Go to the companies office and look up Shanghai Pengxin you will find that there is no such company

    There is however a company called PENGXIN NEW ZEALAND FARM GROUP LIMITED which was set up on 27 Jun 2012 and has a registered office of Level 34, Vero Centre, 48 Shortland St, Auckland Central, Auckland.

    The sole director is Zhaobai JIANG No. 57, Lane 2188, Hongqiao Road, Shanghai , China and the 100% shareholder is MILK NEW ZEALAND HOLDING LIMITED

    Pengxin is recorded as owning 76 land titles, all no doubt purchased since 2012 since the company was set up . The land Transfer will show that th land is not bought by a Chinese interest but rather by a New Zealand company because PENGXIN NEW ZEALAND FARM GROUP LIMITED is a New Zealand legal person

    Zhaobai JIANG according to Forbes has a net worth of 1.2 billion he made his money through real estate

    http://www.anticorruption.co.nz/2014/08/02/fictional-company-ultimately-owns-large-chunk-of-nz/

    Liberal Land Policy for Closer Settlement, 1891–1911
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/land-settlement/page-6

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  18. itstricky (1,766 comments) says:

    Imagine that Devoy couldn’t even understand the complaint. As i said before just another dumb sports body.

    There we go Shawn, didn’t take me long to prove every KBer loves Susan Devoy as much as they love Jonah.

    She should come out in support of JK. Will do her no end of good.

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  19. flipper (3,940 comments) says:

    Help…Help!
    SOS, SOS…..
    mayday, mayday ….
    Pan Pan…..

    Mr Xenophic has escaped.,,,,,

    Oops, sorry. Meant to say, Mr hj.

    Bugger off hj, you xenophobic fool.
    Your rants on migration, or anything that can be related there to, are boring.

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  20. Colville (2,248 comments) says:

    iMP
    Just think for a moment if Rankin splits the Nat vote and ACT misses out on Epsom and because of that Nats dont get back in.
    The Cons will go down in history as the most hated Poli party ever.

    Incredibly dumb move by the Cons in Epsom IMHO.

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  21. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    it is people like Yoza who go that one step further and wilfully distribute slandering fascist porn.

    Not sure why DPF is alright with this stuff being distributed through his site.

    Because this site believes in free speech to a far greater degree than most others, and certainly more than the MSM. One of the reasons I first paid attention to blogs was that I was able to see arguments that never made it to “Letters to the Editor”. That includes Yoza. Besides, I love seeing him earnestly explain why Jews are white people.

    As for the others, think of it as cheap private sector therapy that helps our society, though it would be tempting to have all other commentators one day start agreeing with everything they’re saying, just for kicks. I wonder what they would do then?

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  22. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Poor Susan Devoy is out of her depth. Send her to a marae for some more indoctrination.

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  23. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Conservatives claim polling shows they can win Epsom. Yeah, not very right.

    Conservative Party Leader Colin Craig says “We have polled the electorate, and ACT has no chance of winning. By standing Christine, we give the people of Epsom the chance to elect a centre right government with Conservative values.”

    “Epsom is a seat that the Conservative Party can win if we stand the right candidate. The right Candidate is Mrs Christine Rankin,” Mr Craig says.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1408/S00034/epsom-candidate-announced.htm

    Rankin has also claimed “the polling we have done says I have a chance of winning”. If it’s the same sort of polling Craig claimed prior to the last election that can be viewed with suspicion.

    The Conservatives are so confident about Rankin’s chances in Epsom they haven’t bothered to mention anything about it yet on their website.

    As Colville says, this looks like a dumb move unless they want to bring National down and give themselves a chance in 2017.

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  24. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Right, the Conservative Party and Rankin do not have a hope in hell of winning Epsom.

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  25. Gulag1917 (851 comments) says:

    Well done NZ Commonwealth Games team on a fine effort.

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  26. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Food nazis of the world, unite!
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/schools-plan-to-lighten-up-on-bake-sales-1406923280?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories

    A federal law that aims to curb childhood obesity means that, in dozens of states, bake sales must adhere to nutrition requirements that could replace cupcakes and brownies with fruit cups and granola bars.

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  27. OneTrack (2,966 comments) says:

    Pete – “The hate campaign against John Key and National (and Labour) continues after Green Party members were linked to earlier hoarding defacements continues in Dunedin.”

    Oh the Green Party? Who would have thought?

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  28. OneTrack (2,966 comments) says:

    “Right, the Conservative Party and Rankin do not have a hope in hell of winning Epsom.”

    Maybe not. But they probably do have a hope of taking just 2000 votes from ACT, meaning the National candidate will win the seat, ACT will be out and the country might fall be under the rule of the benighted coalition of envy, taxes and regulation.

    Good going Conservatives. High five, you dicks.

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  29. georgebolwing (758 comments) says:

    The Conservative Party needs to remember one thing: National Party supporters in Epsom are above all obedient. These are the people who elect Rodney Hide and then John Banks as ACT candidates, when I doubt you can find two people with more different views on about everything. One was a classical liberal, with populist tendencies, the other a conservative.

    I am confident that they will follow the PM’s instructions and vote for David Seymour.

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  30. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    Manolo- I don’t have any idea who might “win” Epsom but I think its a major tactical mistake for the Conservatives to run a person like Rankin, basically a career public servant whose “success” is tainted by affirmative action policies, who has been married four times and has never been known to utter one word ever that hints at any attachment to Conservatism.

    However the worst aspect is that she has a political history, and this blunts the Conservative’s most apppealing aspect in that they are freshies and not part of the current political framework. In other words, free from blame.

    Rankin is also viewed quite negatively by many because of that history.

    The women who is missing from NZ politics is Muriel Newman. She of course also has history, but its quite different to Rankin’s, and IMHO much more attractive to Epsom.

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  31. RF (1,364 comments) says:

    big bruv. 8.06am.

    Don’t forget Phil Goof who was also standing shoulder to shoulder with Klark screaming abuse at our troops. How he became minister of defence completely floors me. Sick joke.

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  32. KiwiGreg (3,246 comments) says:

    Actually George, we will use our brains.

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  33. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,825 comments) says:

    Next Commonwealth Games is practically a home games. Gold Coast the New Zealand home away from home.

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  34. flipper (3,940 comments) says:

    Viking2 (11,159 comments) says:

    August 4th, 2014 at 8:19 am

    Supporters of Act have laid a complaint

    ****

    Heh, Norseman…..

    It is not the fault of sport, or squash, that Devoy has a kneejerk, almost arrogant, reaction to any constructive suggestion in relation to a level playing field for all ethnic groups in NZ. After all she was chosen by the most arrogant of all Ministers – Collins, a woman with delusions of grandeur that in National Party circles outside of Auckland, are regarded as being, well, at best, silly.

    But there is another, probably more important problem, and that is the overt advocacy by media and (their) selected commentators, of Maori over all other ethnic groups.

    Want a classic example?

    Imagine the reaction if ACT’s Jamie Whyte had described the present policies of the ultra-left HRC bureaucracy as “VILE”, as one idiot named Little did in his Herald comment on Whyte’s Hamilton speech. The screams would reverberate for the next year.
    Don Brash destroyed the silly prick over the weekend.

    But there is a problem that will never be addressed because the media’s self appointed, self regulating, watchdog is simply a rubber stamp. No? Well following his Hamilton speech Whyte was savaged by media. So the following day, last Thursday, he responded when in New Plymouth:

    ***… ” I said that all citizens should be equal before the law.

    “I realise that in some countries, such as Afghanistan, that might be a controversial idea. Many people in Afghanistan reject the idea that women should have equal rights. And at earlier times in history the idea was rejected across the Western world. Up to the mid-20th century, laws that privileged men, whites and gentiles were common. But in New Zealand today, you might expect the principle of equality before the law to be uncontroversial. You might expect that a declaration of commitment to it would be greeted with quiet equanimity, perhaps even a yawn.

    “Not so. My declaration has triggered vitriolic hostility.

    “Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia has accused me of “harking back to the same old racism that people before him thought would win them votes”. She says my comments are “straight racism”. “He thinks it’s attractive to New Zealanders, but New Zealanders actually know we have to work together,”
    “It’s old politics, it has no place in New Zealand.”

    “Here is a woman who leads a party with an explicitly race-based agenda, who represents an electorate in which only people of one race are permitted to vote, and she accuses me of being racist. And what racist thing did I do? I suggested that the law should pay no heed to race!

    “But it is not just political beneficiaries of New Zealand’s race-based laws who display contempt for the principle of equality.
    Since publishing my speech I have been exposed to hitherto unimagined absurdity from journalists – unimagined by me, at least. A reporter from Radio NZ asked me if I realised how “offensive” my commitment to equality before the law is.
    Offensive?

    “Equality before the law is a fundamental principle of liberal democracy. Since when is it offensive to defend such principles?
    Other journalists have accused me of “playing the race card”.

    “Suppose you meet two politicians. One says the law should not differentiate between people on the basis of race. The other one says it should. Which politician is playing the race card? “

    Now, as proudly National Party Member and voter, I ask the naysayers to explain where, and why, Whyte is wrong!

    At the same time tell me where his New Plymouth rebuttal of media rubbish was reported?

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  35. mandk (947 comments) says:

    Perhaps it should be ACT that backs down in Epsom.
    ACT will not bring any additional seats with them, but the Conservatives will.
    The Conservatives have far more support nationally.
    A lot of people here hate the Conservatives, but that is the political reality.

    Politics is the art of the possible.

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  36. dime (9,795 comments) says:

    Interesting listening to JK on ZB this morning. Hosking grilling him about the sale of a farm (lol). shows what a small country we are.

    Anyway, i didnt hear JK mention property rights. I guess that doesnt sit well with focus groups?

    Heres how Prime Minister Dime would handle it.

    Hosking: Prime Minister Dimebag the great, what is your opinion on the sale of this farm? Labour say it shouldnt happen!

    PM Dime: fuck labour and their shitty communist views. heres the fact. some dude owns a piece of land. that dude can sell to ANYONE he fucking wants to! Why should he be FORCED by govt to sell only to “kiwis” at a reduced price?? we arent commies ffs!

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  37. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Rankin adds weight to the Craig established impression of ‘faux Conservative’.

    You can write ‘Conservastive’ with lipstick on a pig but that doesn’t make to pig conservative.

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  38. dime (9,795 comments) says:

    The Conservatives are now dead to me.

    Rankin sounded dreadful on zb this morning too. Why do women think they have to be so aggressive to be heard? she just sounded like a bitch.

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  39. EAD (937 comments) says:

    Article in the Herald today highlighting how the manufacturing sector has seen a massive decline in the number of people employed in over the past few year:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11303447

    So despite all of the Government propaganda telling us how great the manufacturing sector has been performing, it seems the long established New Zealand manufacturers are now having to bear the brunt of the consequences associated with the ‘sharp rise’ in the cost of living in New Zealand.

    Even though, our government insists there is no such thing.

    The effing jokers that they are.

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  40. Changeiscoming (178 comments) says:

    Some people on here think the Conservatives are beholden to National and ACT wishes. Why? It is about one thing and one thing only – maximising the party vote. Can I remind everyone that it is up to the voters to decide who is government not the politicians. It’s pure arrogance to think politicians can instruct people on how to vote. Also both the National and ACT candidates are liberals and now the voters have a choice of a conservative.

    And my own personal opinion is that the good folk of Epsom are a lot more conservative than we think. Remember the falling out of the National Epsom Electorate committee with Paul Goldsmith after his vote for the same sex marriage and same sex adoption law.

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  41. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Other_Andy August 4th, 2014 at 8:01 am

    big bruv August 4th, 2014 at 8:06 am

    Outstanding posts.

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  42. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘the good folk of Epsom are a lot more conservative than we think’
    Extreme wishful thinking.

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  43. flipper (3,940 comments) says:

    EAD (640 comments) says:

    August 4th, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Article in the Herald today highlighting how the manufacturing sector has seen a massive decline in the number of people employed in over the past few year:

    ****

    Now EAD,

    You remember about steam, oil, and electricity, replacing manpower, wind and water?
    Recall how underground mines brought out their coal?
    Oh, and what about those pesky things that changed agriculture ? Like aerial top dressing, quad bikes, milking machines, and herring bone yards.

    And now we have those idiotic computers and robots. They replaced typists, and process workers.

    Want to pull out your history books and revise your understanding of the industrial revolution (circa 1700) and compare the numbers pro rata, to say, 2014 ????

    And while you are at it, look at the production rates per employee.

    Just a sample, but we can revert if you insist – at a cost.

    Dumbass!….

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  44. EAD (937 comments) says:

    If you want to see a far left cultural marxist attempt to be funny, you should read this piece by someone called “Steve Braunias”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10338356/The-secret-diary-of-Jamie-Whyte

    They can’t use reason or logic to defend their position so instead of their usual tactic of shouting something (racist!, climate denier!, conspiracy theorist!, Nazi!, Bigot!) to try and drown out debate, Braunias has tried to use humour. All I can say is don’t waste 2 minutes of your life on that drivel.

    Without irony, ludicrous posh idiots like Braunias seriously believe they are rebellious anti-Establishmentarians and are fighting the good fight against The Man. Toe-curling embarrassment doesn’t do his comedy justice. If it wasn’t places like the embarrasingly left wing Herald or TVNZ, nobody would know who the hell he or the rest of these alleged comedians are.

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  45. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    People may be right about the Epsom electorate supporting a Conservative, however that doesn’t mean they will vote for Rankin.

    Anyone out there able to provide an argument supporting the view that Rankin is a Conservative?

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  46. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Another excellent Braunias column. He really is very funny.

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  47. Ashley Schaeffer (457 comments) says:

    I was starting to waver on voting Conservative after Whyte took on the wreckers and haters, but standing Rankin in Epsom has made up my mind to switch my vote to ACT. This is a dumb move for the right and could end up ushering in an even more left-wing government than National.

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  48. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    “He really is very funny.”

    No he is not funny at all.

    All his attempts at humour are based upon precepts that are completely incorrect.

    Just an ignorant irritating twerp.

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  49. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Crazy fact for the day from Jesusland:
    A Miami ordinance states that liquor licensees may not “knowingly sell to, serve, or allow a homosexual person to consume alcoholic beverages, or to knowingly allow two or more homosexual persons to congregate or remain in his place of business.”

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  50. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    “Now, as proudly National Party Member and voter, I ask the naysayers to explain where, and why, Whyte is wrong!”

    Are you completely off your head???

    The National Party pushed policies that actually confront much of what Whyte is saying.

    FFS, you have nothing to be proud of as far as the National Party goes. They are behind most of this shit, with Doug Graham and the Maori Party and the Constitutional Review and the Maori seats they didn’t do away with as they said they would.

    Get real and stop posing as something you are not.

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  51. georgebolwing (758 comments) says:

    I’m with flipper on this.

    EAD: I suggest you stop reading that Austrian stuff that you seem to favour (no real economist takes anything from the Ludwig von Mises Institute seriously) and go back to Adam Smith. The highest possible level of welfare will be attained by individuals following their self-interest, freed from the dead hand of government interference, especially government’s trying to maintain the status quo against the forces of innovation and progress.

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  52. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (2,343 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 8:01 am

    I wonder how long before Yoza will be back after trawling the Islamic supremacist and neo Nazi sites for made up slander about the evil Jews slaughtering innocent babies.

    Where have I ever bothered linking to neo-Nazi sites or ‘Islamic supremacist’ sites? Israeli crimes against defenceless Palestinian civilians, which includes many innocent babies, are common place enough to not need make any special effort to highlight them. The only time Palestinian deaths reach the mainstream media is when they are killed in their hundreds, like this latest onslaught, or when they are tenuously connected to the deaths of white Israelis – the Palestinian youth who was burnt to death in an apparent act of retaliation for the killing of the three white Israeli youths.

    I suppose everybody is trying to do his bit for the ultimate solution. Some do the actual dirty work, others make sure the trains run on time and we have people like Yoza to tell everybody that what they ultimately want isn’t really what you, not too deep down, know it is.

    This constant reference to Jews being threatened by an imminent second Holocaust is barking mad, rather the pretence of the coming imaginary holocaust is used as a rationale to subject the Palestinians to a regime of ethnic cleansing, mass-murder, assassination, torture and imprisonment by the Israeli establishment. Norman Finkelstein, the child of parents who survived the Holocaust, goes into detail in his book, The Holocaust Industry, “…in which he argues that the American Jewish establishment exploits the memory of the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel. According to Finkelstein, this “Holocaust industry” has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust.

    They all play their part diverting the blame of the current bloodshed.

    If it is Israeli tanks, soldiers, jets, artillery, missiles, drones causing the carnage in Gaza then the ‘blame’ for the mounting Palestinian death toll sits squarely on the shoulders of the Israeli government. Pretty straight forward there, Andy.

    But whoever you are and whatever you say or do, don’t blame those who actually started it all and keep it going.
    And when you point that all out, people like Yoza will come around and duly tell you it is not those who actually started it all and keep it going but it is those evil baby killing Jews that are to blame.

    Europeans invaded Palestine during the early 20th century and effectively ethnically cleansed of the resident Arab Palestinians, that is what started it, Andy.

    And when we are at the last step people like Yoza will throw up their hands (“Ich habe das nicht gewusst”) and say, but I only trawled the Islamic supremacist and neo Nazi sites for made up slander about the evil Jews slaughtering innocent babies, don’t blame me.
    And you know Yoza, f**** that, I am calling you out.
    I am not going shrug my shoulders, ignore it and let you get away with that, no discussion, end of story!

    You are completely potty, Andy. You slander me with a bunch of accusations that are no more than figments of your fevered imagination, then have the gall to accuse me of slandering Jews. OK, I’m ‘calling you out’, Andy, provide a single link to anything I have posted anywhere that slanders Jews. There is nothing, only criticism of Israeli crimes.

    … it is people like Yoza who go that one step further and wilfully distribute slandering fascist porn.

    That’s completely nonsensical. Again, post one link to anything I have posted anywhere that remotely supports your gibbering horse shit.

    tom hunter (4,445 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 8:52 am

    That includes Yoza. Besides, I love seeing him earnestly explain why Jews are white people.

    Israel enacts law allowing authorities to detain illegal migrants for up to 3 years

    Meanwhile on Sunday, Israeli daily Maariv published an interview with Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in which he stated that most of the “Muslims that arrive here do not even believe that this country belongs to us, to the white man.”

    “I will continue the struggle until the end of my term, with no compramises,” Yishai continued, stating that he would use “all the tools to expel the foreigners, until not one infiltrator remains.”

    So Yoza and the Israeli Interior Minister think Israel is founded on principles of white supremacy, ….oops.

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  53. gump (1,614 comments) says:

    @dirty harry

    You’re calling Millie Holmes an “embarrassment” and a “stupid girl” because her boyfriend was hacked to death with a machete by a gang prospect in a random attack?

    Where is your sense of compassion and empathy?

    Seriously? What the fuck is wrong with you?

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  54. EAD (937 comments) says:

    This is the real reason so many jobs have been lost in manufacturing in NZ (for NZ, replace Britain)

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100165623/big-government-is-bad-for-manufacturing-in-britain/

    the truth is – I haven’t seen many bigger governments in my time in NZ as the Socialists we have in charge now.

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  55. wiseowl (859 comments) says:

    Flipper.
    Whyte is right.
    As a National Party supporter please tell us why your party did not make a stand against this race based infiltration of our legislation ?

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  56. Viking2 (11,344 comments) says:

    EAD (642 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Article in the Herald today highlighting how the manufacturing sector has seen a massive decline in the number of people employed in over the past few year:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11303447

    So despite all of the Government propaganda telling us how great the manufacturing sector has been performing, it seems the long established New Zealand manufacturers are now having to bear the brunt of the consequences associated with the ‘sharp rise’ in the cost of living in New Zealand.

    Even though, our government insists there is no such thing.

    The effing jokers that they are.

    =======================
    Not all surprised. Some months since I noted this and was attacked for questioning the National Line of bullshit. Their contort was that because we processed more milk manufacturing was rising and because we shipped more logs manufacturing was rising.
    This created a false evidence appearing real.
    i.e. fear in the pollies eyes.

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  57. Lance (2,619 comments) says:

    @Yoza
    Are Hamas still storing and firing rockets at Israel from within UN sites and schools etc such as to invite retaliation knowing causalities will be a victory for them?

    Simple question

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  58. Viking2 (11,344 comments) says:

    gump (1,495 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    @dirty harry

    You’re calling Millie Holmes an “embarrassment” and a “stupid girl” because her boyfriend was hacked to death with a machete by a gang prospect in a random attack?

    Where is your sense of compassion and empathy?

    Seriously? What the fuck is wrong with you?
    =======================
    Short memory you have. He was a piece of slime . Live by the sword die by the sword or in this case a machette. it seems.
    I am sick of listening to bleeding hearts justifying crap people that we have imported into NZ. Time we stopped bringing in those that can’t add good value and be good citizens.

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  59. Ross12 (1,376 comments) says:

    On the Yahoo News Poll today ( unscientific , I know) they ask “Have you decided who you will vote for ?” Those answering
    ” yes , definitely ..” = 77%. Undecided = 9% , Somewhat , but could change = 11%.

    So really all the talking , bribes and other BS over the next few weeks is for 20% or less of potential voters based on these figures.
    It is probably similar for each election but it puts the “effort” in perspective.

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  60. Odakyu-sen (568 comments) says:

    “Housing Minister Nick Smith says there will be a review of an attack by a dog at a Housing New Zealand property in Auckland that left a young boy hospitalised. Dogs are banned from Housing New Zealand properties – unless there are exceptional circumstances.”

    Any penalties for keeping a dog in violation of the ban? (Like eviction?)

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  61. Than (448 comments) says:

    Maybe not. But they probably do have a hope of taking just 2000 votes from ACT… Good going Conservatives. High five, you dicks.

    I completely agree it’s an utter dick move by the Conservatives, but there are two reasons to think this won’t alter the outcome in Epsom.

    First, the Conservative candidate in Epsom in 2011 only got 342 votes. Granted Christine Rankin is higher profile than Simon Kan, but I doubt that will make much difference. Second and more important, any votes the Conservatives gain will be drawn equally from National and ACT. Probably if anything more from National given ACT’s libertarian views. So unless they can draw off the twenty thousand plus votes needed to put the Labour candidate in front (in which case they would win the seat themselves anyway) it won’t make any difference to the final outcome.

    Not getting an electorate deal means the Conservatives are dead and gone in NZ politics. This election the media will still report on them in the hope of interesting headlines, but post election they will be ignored the same as all the other non-parliamentary political parties.

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  62. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    So Yoza and the Israeli Interior Minister think Israel is founded on principles of white supremacy, ….oops.

    Muhahahahah. This is even better than your partial quote of Chomsky and your use of it completely out of context – and that was a source you supposedly read diligently.

    A little bit of digging unearthed the following:
    – Israeli daily Maariv is a Hebrew language newspaper
    – as such there could be some fun with translations at best.
    – and partial quotes out of context.

    Here’s what the site “HonestReporting” (something Yoza avoids like the plague) had to say about this incident:

    As The Jewish Press notes, that sentence is better translated as:

    “Most of the people coming here are Moslems who think the land doesn’t belong to us at all, to the white man.”

    With the more accurate translation above, you can see that there is room to wonder who is thinking that about the ‘white man’.

    Who indeed:

    But here is is the excised sentence that comes next and is missing in the Ha’aretz translation:

    “A number of them have said that openly on television.

    Chuckle. So it turns out that

    In short, Eli Yishai is not quoting his own thoughts or beliefs.

    Eli Yishai is not saying Israel belongs to the ‘white man’.

    Eli Yishai is quoting the infiltrators, and it is the infiltrators who have said that Israel doesn’t belong to the “white man”.

    Just like Yoza does. Clever!

    Ha’aretz left out one little sentence. But that sentence determines if Yishai is a racist or not.

    The real question is, did Ha’aretz leave it out on purpose or accidentally?

    Given that Ha’retz is known as The New York Times of Israel I’m willing to make a bet as to which it was.

    And as for Yoza there’s no doubt at all.

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  63. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Yowza, your side lost in 1945. Get over it.

    “We are Socialists, we are enemies of the capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” – – Adolf Hitler.

    “Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed, and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews. Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism, had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews. . . . Antisemitism is really a hatred of capitalism.”
    —Ulrike Meinhof, left-wing German terrorist of the 1970s

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  64. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    One thing Yoza knows, if he wants a response to his insane drivel, Kiwiblog is the place to come.

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  65. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    From the MH370 thread:

    Ugly: I have hitherto been very polite…but PFO…(an old law students acronym) you are a fucking idiot…

    I don’t serve a corrupt legal institution that lies about the common law, David.

    http://www.actsinjunction.info/

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  66. Odakyu-sen (568 comments) says:

    The really scary part about Meihof’s quote is the part “… for what they were considered:…”

    Not “what they were” but “what they were considered.” In other words, if people consider it to be true (re: if the State considers to be true) then it must be true.

    So, millions of people murdered because of “beliefs” rather than “facts.”

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  67. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I don’t serve a corrupt legal institution that lies about the common law, David.”

    Translation: ‘I don’t serve the real law of the land, I serve the law I have made up in my head which rules the fantasy land I dwell in.’

    There, fixed it for you. :)

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  68. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    One thing redbaiter knows, if he wants a response to his insane drivel, Kiwiblog is the place to come.
    Yip Lots of :lol: at that alright.
    I thought you spat the dummy and retired permanently from KB the prog hippie Marxist sewer redblurt what happened to changing the political landsacpe of nz with twitface?

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  69. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Do I need further proof that verbal incontinence, absolute madness, and faith on vile Islam are not exclusive?

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  70. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “what happened to changing the political landsacpe of nz with twitface?”

    He walked head first into the wall known as reality.

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  71. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Translation: ‘I don’t serve the real law of the land, I serve the law I have made up in my head which rules the fantasy land I dwell in.’

    Project much, Shawn?

    According to the state: “The whole of the common law is judge made.”

    Accirding to Black’s dictionary of law:

    common law:
    As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgments and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs; and, in this sense, particularly the ancient unwritten law of England. The “common law” is all the statutory and case law background of England and the American colonies before the American revolution. People v. Rehman, 253 C.A.2d 1 19, 61 Cal.Rptr. 65, 85. “Common law” consists of those principles, usage and rules of action applicable to government and security of persons and property which do not rest for their authority upon any express and positive declaration of the will of the legislature. Bishop v. U. S., D.C.Tex., 334 F.Supp. 415, 4 1 8. As distinguished from ecclesiastical law, it is the system of jurisprudence administered by the purely secular tribunals. (Black’s 5th)

    http://www.actsinjunction.info/corruption.html

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  72. gump (1,614 comments) says:

    @Viking2

    “Short memory you have. He was a piece of slime . Live by the sword die by the sword or in this case a machette. it seems.
    I am sick of listening to bleeding hearts justifying crap people that we have imported into NZ. Time we stopped bringing in those that can’t add good value and be good citizens.”

    ——————————–

    The guy bled to death in the arms of his girlfriend after a random and unprovoked attack.

    I don’t give a shit who he was – because nobody deserves to die like that. It’s symptomatic of the low quality of debate here on Kiwiblog that you think it’s appropriate to post such garbage.

    You’re just another gutless keyboard coward.

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  73. dirty harry (446 comments) says:

    I dont have an issue with that mikemilk..imagine a gaggle of pissed scottchris’s congregating in one spot , how untidy and unseemly it would be..the drunken homosexual debauchery would be rife..keep ‘em off the piss I say.

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  74. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    C’mon Shawn, feed Ugly Untruth as well, you know you want to.

    Another nut job obsessive who relies on you for a stalking horse.

    Hurry up and oblige him.

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  75. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Red,

    The best way to deal with bad ideas is to debate them openly, not just for KB posters, but for the silent majority who read the blog.

    Plus, whenever I confront Ugly it sends him into a raging mental fit, which is entertaining in it’s own right. :)

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  76. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    You thick as a brick loser.

    You’ve been “debating” this idiot obsessive now for hundreds of comments week after week after week. Where the fuck do you think it ends?

    If it wasn’t for lonely low intellect dipshits like you feeding him he wouldn’t bother.

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  77. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Plus, whenever I confront Ugly it sends him into a raging mental fit, which is entertaining in it’s own right.

    You wish, liar.

    Another nut job obsessive who relies on you for a stalking horse.

    That’s about as connected to reality as you saying that the sun doesn’t emit radio waves, Redbaiter.

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  78. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “You thick as a brick loser.”

    You’re brave when you’re behind a computer Red. I doubt you would be in person.

    “If it wasn’t for lonely low intellect dipshits like you feeding him he wouldn’t bother.”

    Yes he would. People like Ugly are driven by deeply rooted psychological obsessions and cannot help themselves.

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  79. Judith (8,531 comments) says:

    Today, 100 years ago, New Zealand, as part of the British Empire, announced it was at war.

    Granddad’s Diary –

    We are at war. Mirrie, Harry and Mack took me to the Domain where we had tea and joined the crowds. The band played until dark. I lost Harry and Mack after we walked Mirrie home.
    Letter, 3 pages, to Mother, Father and Daisy, they will be worried about Geoff.
    The happy chaps still not home. Can still hear singing!

    Within 12 months, Harry, Mack and Geoff (a British Navy Officer) were dead. They had that last happy day – 100 years ago today, together. Only Granddad survived, to return home and marry Mirrie.

    This is for ‘our kiwi boys’.

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  80. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Nice post Judith.

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  81. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    tom hunter (4,448 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 10:29 am

    The site you provided does nothing to refute the claim the Interior Minister believes Israel is ‘for the white man’. The ‘us’ he uses when paraphrasing, not quoting, the immigrants is stated in the closing clause ‘the white man’. Feeble Tom, even for you.

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  82. SGA (982 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 11:03 am

    The best way to deal with bad ideas is to debate them openly, not just for KB posters, but for the silent majority who read the blog.

    A silent majority who without your daily war of words would be vulnerable to UT’s idiosyncratic worldview? Really?

    whenever I confront Ugly it sends him into a raging mental fit, which is entertaining in it’s own right.

    Probably more to the point.

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  83. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    “Probably more to the point.”

    Anyone who feels any need to read the endless long comments of Shawn and his mate Ugly for “entertainment” (or for any reason really) needs psychiatric help.

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  84. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    Isn’t funny how unaware of his own reality red blurt is
    Seasoned anonymous Keyboard worrier who insist on calling others deluded coward prog hippie scum Marxist not actually debating at all.
    When his chosen moniker is one of the worlds great examples of paranoid political delusions.
    A stunted intellect who can not debate just resorts to insults when queried about his politics.
    Thats our red blurt to a T.

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  85. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    “Nice post Judith.”

    A reminder of what a waste it was.

    All those good men gone opposing totalitarianism while its now the preferred choice among so many of today’s poorly educated ignorant of history voters.

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “whenever I confront Ugly it sends him into a raging mental fit, which is entertaining in it’s own right.”

    Probably more to the point.

    I think Shawn may be projecting here, he seem to be having something of an episode with this little outbust:

    “Neither does David, because your understanding of the law, like your understanding of the science around 911 and other issues, is just the ranting of an looney who has zero credible knowledge on any topic.”

    “David has a law degree. You only have the internet, you’re looney tunes conspiracy sites, and your mental disorder.”

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  87. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    What happens to Palestinians who sell land to Israelis? Maybe there is a lesson there vis a vis Lochinver Station.

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  88. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Truth hurts eh Ugly? :)

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  89. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Depends on whether or not you lost the argument.

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  90. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Seasoned anonymous Keyboard worrier who insist on calling others deluded coward prog hippie scum Marxist not actually debating at all.”

    That’s because Griff Redbutt does not have the intelligence to debate with his betters, and he knows it. Easier just to play tough guy and pretend that his own useless ranting is changing NZ.

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  91. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    Heh, further more, Tom, you are going to have a difficult time defending a racist like Eli Yishai – this is a guy who has a solid history of racist rhetoric.

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  92. wreck1080 (3,864 comments) says:

    So,Nick Smith says…”Dogs are banned from Housing New Zealand properties – unless there are exceptional circumstances”

    I reckon dogs would be very common in housing nz homes…these people are responsible for housing nz, so who on this list is ultimately responsible for letting tenants break the rules?…

    The Board members are:
    •Dr Allan Freeth (Chair)
    •Adrienne Young-Cooper (Deputy Chair)
    •Jeff Meltzer
    •Susan Paterson
    •Whaimutu Dewes
    •Ian Kearney
    •Liz Jones
    •Peter Dow

    Management

    Our Chief Executive, Glen Sowry, is supported by the executive team:
    •Leonie Freeman – Acting General Manager Asset Development
    •Marcus Bosch – General Manager Property Services
    •Greg Groufsky – General Manager Governance
    •Bryony Hilless – General Manager Communications, Marketing & Stakeholder Engagement
    •Rowan Macrae – General Manager Business Support
    •Kay Read – General Manager Tenancy Services
    •Phillip Bailey – Chief Financial Officer
    •Paul Commons – General Manager Canterbury Redevelopment

    I reckon Glen Sowry takes top responsibility, perhaps followed by Marcus Bosch?

    Although, if the CEO is not enforcing the policies then is it also the board that should be held to account?

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  93. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    Well said Wreck.

    More light should be shone on these ineffective management groups.

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  94. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “this is a guy who has a solid history of racist rhetoric.”

    POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

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  95. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    The best way to deal with bad ideas is to debate them openly, not just for KB posters, but for the silent majority who read the blog.

    Normally I would agree – in fact Nostradamus tweaked me a little the other day about engaging with Yoza. But while Yoza plays a mini-me version of Chomsky on KB that’s quite a different situation to the nutters on here – and bear in mind that I only engage Yoza when he’s spewing his bile about something that is in the news and where there might be people who take notice of him, e.g. the current Israeli-Gaza scarp.

    But the others are not expressing bad ideas, they’re simply venting an avalanche of unhinged, basement-dwelling conspiracy theories about almost everything. There is actually no logical or factually based rationale on which to engage; the argument simply jumps from one nutty point to the next, not to mention the complete absence of “the reasonable man” state to which to appeal an argument.

    The best way to deal with those is actually not to waste time debating them but simply allow them to howl at the moon. Of the people who read KB, 99.9% will roll their eyes and scroll past. You’re not actually “debating” with them at all, you’re feeding them.

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  96. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    “Don’t feed the troll”
    It can be fun sometimes, though.

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  97. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Tom, how would you distinguish the situation from a simple case of denial that large conspiracies exist?

    There is actually no logical or factually based rationale on which to engage

    In other words, you don’t have the facts on your side.

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  98. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.

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  99. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Every state has the right to defend itself”

    A criminal state has no right to defend itself, just as a criminal has no right to defend a criminal act.

    In other words, you can’t defend the indefensible.

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  100. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    “The best way to deal with those is actually not to waste time debating them but simply allow them to howl at the moon. Of the people who read KB, 99.9% will roll their eyes and scroll past. You’re not actually “debating” with them at all, you’re feeding them.”

    Well said Tom.

    As usual.

    (Most of your comments are a must read for me but I gotta admit I struggle with the Yoza stuff)

    I was watching Barnaby Joyce (a RW Australian MP) the other day and he expressed the want not to discuss Isreael/ Palestine at all. He said so many words had been exchanged over so many decades, and yet nothing seemed to change, except that the situation continued to grow in combustability, and he preferred not to add to it.)

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  101. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Now that last post from Ugly is exactly why he needs to be openly opposed. Silence in the face of evil is not an option.

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  102. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    he expressed the want not to discuss Isreael/ Palestine

    Looking at the problem as Israel vs Palestine entirely misses the point, as many Palestinians are Jewish or of Jewish descent.

    The issues can more effectively be described as the secular Zionist state vs religious Jews and Muslims.

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  103. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Palestinians are Jewish or of Jewish descent.”

    Almost none are. You have no evidence for this apart from the opinion of one fringe academic that even the Palestinians think is wrong.

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  104. SGA (982 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Now that last post from Ugly is exactly why he needs to be openly opposed. Silence in the face of evil is not an option.

    Actually, I think you were more accurate with –

    People like Ugly are driven by deeply rooted psychological obsessions and cannot help themselves.

    and that

    whenever I confront Ugly it sends him into a raging mental fit, which is entertaining in it’s own right.

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  105. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Almost none are. You have no evidence for this apart from the opinion of one fringe academic that even the Palestinians think is wrong.

    You have no evidence that “almost none” are Jewish or of Jewish descent.

    “After years of research, Misinai says that he can declare with certainty that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from the Jews. “And what’s more, about half of them know it,” he says. Not only that, many Palestinians retain Jewish customs, including mourning rituals, lighting Shabbat or memorial candles and even wearing tefillin.”
    http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/The-lost-Palestinian-Jews

    Ariella Oppenheim Ph.D., a researcher at Hebrew University and the Hadassah Medical School labs, has published the result of DNA studies which show that both the Palestinians and Jews are descended from the Kurds of Iraq and Turkey.

    Oppenheim also isolated and traced the chromosome for the “priestly” Cohen line.

    “We find that Arabs also carry this chromosome,” she noted in a documentary film, which claims that some Palestinians are also Cohens, genetically.

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/news/2011/09/jews-palestinians-have-close-genetic-ties-say-researchers.php

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  106. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    I gotta admit I struggle with the Yoza stuff

    Well as I said, I let most of his stuff slide with a chuckle, especially when he starts trumpeting about the coming overthrow of capitalist democracies. I just think that Israel needs backing against the overwhelming propaganda levelled against it, especially when there is little difference between what Yoza expresses and what one sees from MSM journalists.

    Now that last post from Ugly is exactly why he needs to be openly opposed. Silence in the face of evil is not an option.

    (Shrugs shoulders). I can only judge each commentator on what I’ve seen of their comments. I judge Ugly to be unhinged because of all the other stuff he’s expressed over the months he’s been here, and as such he can be dismissed.

    Yoza I judge to be more evil because there is a cold-blooded, cynical rationality about his attacks, hence I think he has a greater chance of success in convincing people. For example, he’ll argue the whole “Jews as White People” because that can be emotionally tied into his other nostrums about European colonisation, oppressed peoples and Apartheid, which would be a measure of success. There are any number of other commentators here who buy into the same theories but to a lesser degree. But Yoza’s too cunning to delve into the world of arguing about “Jewish” chromosomes.

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  107. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I judge Ugly to be unhinged because of all the other stuff he’s expressed over the months he’s been here, and as such he can be dismissed.

    That’s the easy way out, Tom, to play the ad hominem. Unless you can back up your position with facts and reason then all you have is opinion, and unless you are qualified to speak as a judge then your opinion is of no value to anyone.

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  108. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Now that last post from Ugly is exactly why he needs to be openly opposed. Silence in the face of evil is not an option.

    Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil
    Isaiah 5:20

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  109. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    According to Ugly “many Palestinians are Jewish or of Jewish descent.”

    Apparently the Palestinians do not agree.

    “Palestinians: “No Jews Allowed!”

    “”We will approve the meeting on condition there are no Jews.”

    This is what you are likely to hear these days if you request a meeting with any senior Palestinian Authority official in the West Bank.

    Palestinian journalists who try to arrange meetings or interviews with Palestinian Authority representatives for Western colleagues have become used to hearing such things almost on a daily basis.

    Just last week, for example, a journalist who requested a meeting between Western journalists and a top Palestinian Authority official was told “to make sure there were no Jews or Israelis” among the visitors.

    The official’s aide went on to explain: “We are sorry, but we do not meet with Jews or Israelis.”

    Another Palestinian journalist who tried to arrange an interview with a Palestinian Authority official for a European colleague was turned down “because the man’s name indicates he is a Jew.”

    In yet another recent incident, a Palestinian Authority ministry instructed its guards to “prevent Jewish reporters” from attending an event in Ramallah.

    It is not clear at this stage if the Palestinian Authority leadership is behind the boycott of Jews and Israelis who seek to meet with its representatives.

    What is clear is that Palestinian Authority officials do not hesitate to state in public that they do not want to meet with any Jew or Israeli.

    The Palestinian Authority representatives assume that if you are a Jew, then you must be pro-Israel or anti-Palestinian.

    The only people with whom they want to meet are those who support the Palestinians and do not ask difficult questions.”

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3783/palestinians-no-jews-allowed

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  110. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil
    Isaiah 5:20

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.
    1 John 2:22

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  111. Viking2 (11,344 comments) says:

    gump (1,497 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    @Viking2

    “Short memory you have. He was a piece of slime . Live by the sword die by the sword or in this case a machette. it seems.
    I am sick of listening to bleeding hearts justifying crap people that we have imported into NZ. Time we stopped bringing in those that can’t add good value and be good citizens.”

    ——————————–

    The guy bled to death in the arms of his girlfriend after a random and unprovoked attack.

    I don’t give a shit who he was – because nobody deserves to die like that. It’s symptomatic of the low quality of debate here on Kiwiblog that you think it’s appropriate to post such garbage.

    You’re just another gutless keyboard coward.
    ==============================

    Really. Unprovoked like fuck.
    Gang attacks are related to their need to control the turf and the opposition. Nothing unprovoked just probably not planned to happen as it did.
    Tough for Elder but if you sleep with dogs then expect to get their fleas.
    She made her choices which were bad. Not our fault.

    If you think your gutless insults will cause me any bother over scum of this nature then you are barking fucking mad. Have dealt with enough of these arsewipes to long ago have lost any sympathy for them.
    If you don’t like KB and some of our more community minded views then fuck off and join someone else who thinks these people are decent Kiwi’s.

    Waste of space and taxpayers money.

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  112. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Apparently the Palestinians do not agree.

    It’s not politically correct to be Jewish in Gaza.

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/news/2011/09/jews-palestinians-have-close-genetic-ties-say-researchers.php

    “Many of the Palestinians know it, but it’s not politically correct to acknowledge this publicly among Muslims,” says Steve Hagerman, founder of Turkish World Outreach.

    Mossek filmed a Palestinian home where the Jewish mezuzah was hidden under a shelf, and the tefillin are hidden among the socks in a dresser. A mezuzah is a parchment of scripture placed on the doorpost by religious Jews. Tefillin, also known as phylacteries, are a set of small boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with scripture, which are worn by observant Jews during morning prayers.

    A Palestinian woman interviewed on the program says, “That is how I pray and everyone keeps the secret.”

    “Will your little boy find out he is Jewish? an interviewer asks.

    “He will find out eventually,” she says.

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  113. Viking2 (11,344 comments) says:

    Gaza conflict: Secret labyrinth of tunnels and bunkers

    Gaza conflict: Secret labyrinth of tunnels and bunkers

    By Harriet Sherwood
    5:00 AM Monday Aug 4, 2014

    Save
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    Gaza
    International Politics
    War

    An Israeli army officer inspects a tunnel allegedly used by Palestinian militants. Picture / AP An Israeli army officer inspects a tunnel allegedly used by Palestinian militants. Picture / AP

    The entrance is a deep vertical shaft, usually hidden in a house. It drops down a dozen metres or so before reaching a horizontal passage, lined with concrete and electric cables.

    Most are around a metre wide and perhaps 2.5m high, barely enough to accommodate a man carrying a heavy load of weaponry.

    The tunnels descend deeper, reaching up to 30m below the surface.

    Most are between 1 and 3km long and have multiple entrances and branches. They interconnect with other passages and with bunkers used as command centres and weapons stores and to keep Hamas’ political and military leaders safe from the pounding by Israeli forces above ground.

    This is “lower Gaza” and Israel’s casus belli: a secret labyrinth of tunnels and bunkers, painstakingly built by Hamas over recent years at enormous cost.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11303441

    Quite a different perspective.

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  114. wiseowl (859 comments) says:

    Just an observation.
    The guy Franklin from Lochinver says they will be using the money from the sale to invest in a quarry development near Auckland.

    I am sure the neighbor of Lochinver is or was a guy who sold a quarry in Auckland to buy a farm to put into dairying.

    lol

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  115. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Making Weapons Out of Dead Children in Gaza: Journalists play into Hamas’s hands when they direct their outrage at Israel.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384367/making-weapons-out-dead-children-gaza-ian-tuttle

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  116. stephieboy (2,641 comments) says:

    Correction Ugly Truth. It is more accurate to say both Jews, Palestinians and Arabs living in Lebanon and Syria share a common semitic heritage that recent genome and DNA analysis has confirmed .
    Therefore its not correct to say the Palestinians are of jewish descent.
    Actually there is a concerted attempt by Palestinians and their supporters ( including neo nazis ) to deny that jews have any links whosoever to the Middle East with spurious Ashkenazi East European Jews argument .
    Your suggestion would be an abomination to Palestinians and their supporters.

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  117. Tauhei Notts (1,677 comments) says:

    Flipper at 9.15; and EAD at 9.44 = brilliant posts.
    The main stream media’s hate on ACT is irrational. Nobody chose to mention Whyte’s rebuttal of the criticism levelled at him.
    Notice how Little and Braunias will not point out any factual errors in what Whyte said. That is because it was all honest logical truth. So their employers allocate them column centimetres to lampoon an honest man. All very sad.

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  118. Fletch (6,237 comments) says:

    Oh FFS – One News post on facebook – They say there “is a call” (who from?) for unisex toilets in schools for so-called transgender students.

    Researchers have developed an action plan to try and and create a better environment in schools for an increasing number of young people who identify themselves as transgender.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/call-unisex-toilets-in-schools-help-transgender-students-6046017

    This liberal, progressive, sexual BS is starting to infiltrate into New Zealand.

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  119. Redbaiter (8,266 comments) says:

    Tauhei- there is an active intent among NZ’s MSM to ignore Jamie Whyte.

    Patrick Gower sent the following message to all his MSM followers on Twitter-

    @patrickgowernz Jul 31

    Jamie Whyte is desperate and should be ignored on this

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  120. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Jeepers. Gaia will be in danger: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8885396/farm-sale-to-china-irks-nz-farmers

    Selling off New Zealand farmland to overseas investors will result in greater environmental degradation from dairy intensification, the Green Party warns.

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  121. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The extent and sophistication of the underground network has taken Israel’s political and military leadership by surprise.

    Yeah right.

    “Israeli Reserve Brig. Gen. Shimon Daniel, who headed the combat engineering force between 2003 and 2007, says it wasn’t easy to uncover tunnels even back then, because they aren’t deep enough for ground penetration radar to locate.”
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/07/30/336594614/gazas-network-of-tunnels-is-a-major-hole-in-israels-defenses

    Actually a dozen to 30 meters is well within the range of ground penetrating radar:

    “Much better, than an Israeli concept of building a moat around Gaza, polluting the ground aquifer, Bauman said, would be a technique like underground radar to find tunnels. “Israel has been very interested in this, and Israeli companies are working on underground radar systems,” said Bauman. “In an underground radar system, you aim the wave down below the ground, and when you get back a signal that is an anomaly — indicating that there is something different about the area you just checked than other areas — you know you’ve found something worth investigating.””

    “There are limitations to the system, though. “Depending on the frequency of the radar wave, you can have a system that can ‘see’ as far down as 100 meters, but at low resolution, or just 10 meters at a better resolution,” Bauman said. Radar could be very useful in discovering larger concrete tunnels, which have metal rebar in them — concrete and metal being much denser than the gypsum and salt-rich soil around the Gaza border — but not for the simpler, smaller wood-reinforced tunnels.”

    ““For 10 years I’ve been crying and screaming to the highest possible levels – to the Defense Ministry, the chief of staff, the commanding officers of southern and northern command,” Dr Joseph Langotsky, an Israeli geologist who has long advocated greater attention to the issue of the tunnels, said in an interview with the Jerusalem Post.”

    “Ilana Freedman, veteran intelligence analys, raised the issue of the threat of tunnels crossing the Lebanon Israel frontier. The IDF was warned about the Hezbollah tunnels as early as April 2010, including a large tunnel which was being constructed from southern Lebanon to central Haifa.”

    http://drrichswier.com/2014/07/25/israel-stunned-discovery-tunnels-gaza/

    ground penetrating radars Companies in Israel
    20 Results found
    http://www.environmental-expert.com/soil-groundwater/geophysics/companies/keyword-ground-penetrating-radars-939/location-israel

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  122. Judith (8,531 comments) says:

    I bow to the knowledge that so many of you have, that I don’t, on the Gaza conflict and associated issues.

    What I’d really like to know, rather than who is to blame or whatever, is how do any of you think it could be solved, without more bloodshed? What, apart from violence, could put a stop to the fighting? What would each side have to do?

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  123. Nookin (3,260 comments) says:

    Judith:

    A 1000 years or so of history suggests that relocation is probably the best solution. One lot at the North Pole and the other lot at the South Pole.

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  124. cha (3,921 comments) says:

    Ahh, crisp, sweet, satisfying wingnut tears.

    The panel voted Thursday to declassify the report, the result of two years of investigation by the committee. U.S. intelligence agencies will have to approve making the report public.

    Thompson said the report “confirms that no one was deliberately misled, no military assets were withheld and no stand-down order (to U.S. forces) was given.”

    http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/House-panel-No-administration-wrongdoing-in-5663509.php

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  125. stephieboy (2,641 comments) says:

    cha, thanks for that. Fletch, Tom Hunter and our other local Tea Party aficionados will be positively delirious with joy about the Republican led Intelligence Committee findings over the alleged Benghazi Conspiracy and cover up claptrap.!

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  126. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers :)

    Sink your gums into this one …….

    (FYI – I have sent this out widely as a ‘MEDIA ALERT’)

    There is a US Chamber of Commerce briefing at the MFAT office on Quay St at which Minister of Trade, Tim Groser will be speaking.

    TOMORROW: Tuesday 5 August
    5pm
    139 Quay St Auckland City.

    Where’s the ‘People’s Briefing’?

    Where’s the ‘open, transparent and democratic accountability’ with these Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) negotiations?

    What sort of ‘PARTNERSHIP’ excludes the public?

    After 30 years of neo-liberal ‘Rogernomic$’ – haven’t the public learned that what’s good for big business isn’t usually good for the the public majority?

    How come over 600 corporate ‘trade advisors’ get to see the TPPA text – but the public don’t?
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.citizen.org/TPP

    ” Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): Job Loss, Lower Wages and Higher Drug Prices

    Have you heard?

    The TPP is a massive, controversial “free trade” agreement currently being pushed by big corporations and negotiated behind closed doors by officials from the United States and 11 other countries – Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam. In one fell swoop, this secretive deal could:

    offshore millions of American jobs,
    roll back Wall Street reforms,
    sneak in SOPA-like threats to Internet freedom,
    ban Buy American policies needed to create green jobs,
    jack up the cost of medicines,
    expose the U.S. to unsafe food and products,
    and empower corporations to attack our environmental and health safeguards.

    Although it is called a “free trade” agreement, the TPP is not mainly about trade.

    Of TPP’s 29 draft chapters, only five deal with traditional trade issues.

    One chapter would provide incentives to offshore jobs to low-wage countries.

    Many would impose limits on government policies that we rely on in our daily lives for safe food, a clean environment, and more.

    Our domestic federal, state and local policies would be required to comply with TPP rules.

    The TPP would even elevate individual foreign firms to equal status with sovereign nations, empowering them to privately enforce new rights and privileges, provided by the pact, by dragging governments to foreign tribunals to demand taxpayer compensation over policies that they claim undermine their expected future profits.

    We only know about the TPP’s threats thanks to leaks – the public is not allowed to see the draft TPP text.

    Even members of Congress, after being denied the text for years, are now only provided limited access.

    Meanwhile, more than 600 official corporate “trade advisors” have special access.

    The TPP has been under negotiation for five years, and the Obama administration wants to sign the deal by early 2014.

    Opposition to the TPP is growing at home and in many of the other countries involved. … ”
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Whose interests are being served by the TPPA?

    Follow the dollar ……..

    What do you expect from this John Key led National Government, when this ex-Wall Street banker is STILL a shareholder in the Bank of America?

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20141/2e04287ad20ee5da12a308149e59bb16d7f47ce5

    “Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)
    2 Other companies and business entities

    Little Nell – property investment, Aspen, Colorado

    Bank of America – banking ”
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    “The will of the people is the basis of the authority of government”!

    NO PUBLIC SAY – NO TPPA!

    https://www.facebook.com/ItsOurFutureNZ

    It’s time to ROLLBACK ‘Rogernomic$’ and corrupt corporate control – not extend it.

    Open the books!

    Cut out the private sector contractors and consultants!

    Return essential public services back to direct democratic control, with’in-house’ employees, under the ‘public service’ – NOT commercialised or privatised model!

    The neo-liberal mantra that ‘public is bad – private is good’ – has been proven over the last 30 years to be a complete and utter rort and fraud perpetrated on the public.

    In my considered opinion, the only ones who have benefited from public services being run in a more ‘business-like’ (privatised) way – is those businesses who have secured the contracts.

    It’s time for the public majority to benefit from our public monies at central and local government – not a corporate minority – helped by politicians who serve their interests.

    The TPPA will extend this corrupt, powerful corporate control, both nationally and internationally.

    ENOUGH!

    My very clear position as a fiercely independent anti-corruption and anti-privatisation Public Watchdog, is that this NZ National-led Government must NOT sign the TPPA.

    Penny Bright

    2014 Independent Candidate for the Helensville electorate

    2009 Attendee Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2010 Attendee Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    2013 Attendee Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2009 Attendee G20 Anti-Corruption Conference
    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes)

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  127. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    A possible partnership of Miss Dim with UT would be a marriage in Hell, the Islamic version of it, where pork dishes are on the menu every day and rates never paid.

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  128. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What, apart from violence, could put a stop to the fighting? What would each side have to do?

    Know where they stand in relation to the original religious context: i.e. know what the limits to militant behaviour are according to the Hebrew Torah and the Islamic Quran, and recognize the historical land rights of both the Jewish and Muslim people in the middle east.

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  129. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    In other words, compromises that neither side is prepared to make.

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  130. wreck1080 (3,864 comments) says:

    good to see the nurses going on strike.

    Teachers unions have been far more aggressive at obtaining higher pay rises and have left nurses behind over a number of years.

    Time for some catch up!!!

    Interesting this occurs after Tony Ryall resigns. But, he’s been incredibly effective at suppressing pay increases.

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  131. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    In other words, compromises that neither side is prepared to make.

    There is only one side that is unable to find a workable solution regarding religion, and it isn’t the Jews or the Muslims.

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  132. Yadayada (2 comments) says:

    Oh Penny. What to say…….

    Sod it. Replying only gives oxygen

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  133. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Thank God for Africa……not!: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-collapses-3977051

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  134. Don the Kiwi (1,684 comments) says:

    Judith.

    “What, apart from violence, could put a stop to the fighting? What would each side have to do?”

    Sadly, until Hamas (and other Arab groups and states, like Iran) give up their determination to exterminate “The Joos” , this conflict will continue until one of the combatants is totally overcome. This quite evident in the breach of the past five ceasefires – Hamas has simply used them as an opportunity to prepare for, and continue to attack Israel.

    One light at the end of the tunnel,are those Pallestinians – like the Hamas’ founder’s son – and other sensible Muslims, are starting to talk out against the aim of getting rid of Israel, and agreeing to co-exist with them, as has happened several times in history.

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  135. Jack5 (5,005 comments) says:

    The lead party that loses the coming general election might be the lucky one.

    Economic storms may be looming for dairy-export dependent NZ.

    The UK Telegraph is reporting surging European milk production, and an incipient world milk-price war:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/11008732/UK-farmers-in-firing-line-as-global-dairy-giant-signals-milk-war.html

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  136. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Good news!

    Court declares Ground Zero cross an important historic symbol.

    “The American Atheists sued the National September 11 Museum & Memorial and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to remove the Ground Zero Cross memorial from the site of the 2001 Islamic terrorist attack in New York City, an attack that left close to 3,000 dead.

    During clean-up, a worker clearing rubble discovered two crossed steel beams in the debris. For those working amid the destruction, the cross came to symbolize faith and hope. In addition to the usual and erroneous constitutional “separation of church and state” contention, American Atheists actually argued the plaintiffs in the case “suffered, are suffering, and will continue to suffer damages, both physical and emotional, from the existence of the challenged cross … dyspepsia, symptoms of depression, headaches, anxiety, and mental pain and anguish from the knowledge that they are made to feel officially excluded from the ranks of citizens who were directly injured by the 9/11 attack and the lack of acknowledgement of the more than 1,000 non-Christian individuals who were killed at the World Trade Center.”

    On Monday, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected those claims. Contrary to the argument that including religious symbols in a public historical display is impermissible religious promotion, the court contended that the U.S. Supreme Court “has long recognized that an accurate account of human history frequently requires reference to religion.””

    http://www.worldmag.com/2014/07/court_declares_ground_zero_cross_an_important_historic_symbol

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  137. Urban_Redneck (67 comments) says:

    Good news!

    Soft-core atheists are some of the worst malcontents around.

    More often than not a motley collection of libertines and sexual eccentrics who don’t like the ethical and moral restraint Christianity places around certain behaviours.

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  138. cha (3,921 comments) says:

    Tom Hunter and our other local Tea Party aficionados

    I may disagree with Tom about lots of things but I think he’s possibly the best contributor to KB and to lump him and his musings in with some others is quite frankly damned insulting.

    If you want to bag him fine, go right ahead and flame away but leave me out because I consider Tom’s contributions to be the rarest of all things on KB – must reads that have caused me to rethink more than a few of my own positions.

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  139. Tauhei Notts (1,677 comments) says:

    My mate from Coogee Bay, who is a huge Waratahs’ sponsor, wants to by me a tee shitt with the placard on it;
    “I’m not an alcoholic. I only drink when McCaw’s offside”

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  140. Other_Andy (2,562 comments) says:

    Trust us, we are the media…….

    More rubbish from Kathy Marks at the NZ Herald copied almost straight from the ABC without fact checking.

    Rising seas threaten to drive Torres Strait islanders from homes

    Hundreds of people living in the Torres Strait face the prospect of having to leave their homes in the coming decades as rising seas engulf their low-lying islands, a new report says.
    The fear is that as the ocean warms and sea levels rise further, some islands may have to be abandoned. (Boohoo, I bet there is money involved somewhere, somehow, a lot of money!)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11303423

    So how bad is it?
    Easy to check. Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level (PSML) has 4 tidal gauges operating on the Torres Strait Islands as part of the The Global Sea Level Observing System.
    The four stations have been measuring sea level for 30-40 years.

    http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1368.php

    Checing out all four stations it appears sea level rise is……..
    Wel, as you can see for yourself, next to nothing.

    Getting something so simple so wrong, how confident are you that other things they are reporting are correct?

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  141. freemark (554 comments) says:

    Here’s one for Griff..
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2014/05/21/global-warming-alarmists-are-getting-desperate/

    Judith (7,732 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
    “I bow to the knowledge that so many of you have, that I don’t, on the Gaza conflict and associated issues.
    What I’d really like to know, rather than who is to blame or whatever, is how do any of you think it could be solved, without more bloodshed? What, apart from violence, could put a stop to the fighting? What would each side have to do?”

    There is no doubt whatsover Judith that the support the child murdering Terrorist Hamas (& other similar organisations) are given by the feeble international media & gullible Lefty mouth pieces (including our own) encourages them. This will ensure the conflict rages on. Sustained condemnation of the terrorists by the rest of the world (and increasing military action) is probably the only thing that will save millions of innocents.

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  142. Nostradamus (3,249 comments) says:

    Cha:

    I may disagree with Tom [Hunter] about lots of things but I think he’s possibly the best contributor to KB and to lump him and his musings in with some others is quite frankly damned insulting.

    If you want to bag him fine, go right ahead and flame away but leave me out because I consider Tom’s contributions to be the rarest of all things on KB – must reads that have caused me to rethink more than a few of my own positions.

    Well said.

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  143. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I may disagree with Tom about lots of things but I think he’s possibly the best contributor to KB and to lump him and his musings in with some others is quite frankly damned insulting.”

    I agree cha. Sadly this is Stephies dishonest style, slur by association. The problem is that Stephie does not have any real understanding of US politics. He frequently lumps together all sorts of highly divergent people and groups. Even the Tea Party itself has a great deal of diversity, yet Stephie carries on as though it’s a single entity with a single platform.

    He recently tried to lump me in with Alex Jones, a fringe nutter and a 911 Truther, despite knowing that I despise 911 truthers. Why? Because I criticize Obama, and so does Jones, thus in Stephies mind we must be on the same page.

    It’s a gutter level tactic based on ignorance and lazy thinking.

    Tom’s posts are easily amongst the very best on KB. He nailed Yowza brilliantly last night.

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  144. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Sustained condemnation of the terrorists by the rest of the world (and increasing military action) is probably the only thing that will save millions of innocents’
    You may not be aware that terrorism is strongly condemned in much of the world already. As for increasing military action, how much more would you like to see?

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  145. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    As for increasing military action, how much more would you like to see?

    The amount required to send Hamas’ leadership to the other world to enjoy Allah’s paradise.

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  146. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    A good debunking of the 911 truther myths.

    The 9/11 Truth Movement: The Top Conspiracy Theory, a Decade Later.

    “As with any well-developed pseudoscience, literally thousands of individual arguments can be advanced in support of the proposition that the United States secretly carried out the September 11 attacks. This report will examine the most enduring and oft cited of these claims: “free fall” of the towers, reports of thermite and molten steel, and WTC 7’s curious collapse. Some of the factions that have developed (such as the “no-planers”) will also be described briefly.”

    http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_9_11_truth_movement_the_top_conspiracy_theory_a_decade_later/

    Six really stupid 9/11 conspiracies debunked in about six seconds.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/six-really-stupid-911-conspiracies-debunked-in-about-six-seconds/story-fndir2ev-1226717737311

    Confessions of an Ex-Truther: The ranting and raving of someone who wasted a year of his life being sucked into the lies of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

    http://extruther.blogspot.co.nz

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  147. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    Reading about the Atheists trying to remove the cross from Ground Zero..
    What the fuck is wrong with them? And what’s next? Removing all the crosses at Arlington Cemetery?
    Bulldozing Christ the Redeemer??

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  148. stephieboy (2,641 comments) says:

    Shawn LH, Your the one who engages in slur and stupefying arrogance suggesting that your US citizenship gives you special insights and privileges position in understand US politics and the economy ,including the Obama Presidency,

    I merely drew attention to the fact that even someone like Alex Jones etc would not stoop to such patronizing and condescending arrogance.

    cha, Tom Hunter has steadfastly supported the Benghazi conspiracy claims that the Right media such as Fox and the Tea Party have assiduously and persistently sought to blame on the Obama administration. He might be the best poster but certainly got it wrong on Benghazi and ,in my view ,Libya and Syria. too.!

    Both now the Republican led Intelligence committee like the Bi partisan Senate in February this year agree there has been no wrong doing by Obama and his Presidency.
    That should be the end of it but I don’t bank on Fox News etc agreeing with it and the campaign will continue to malign Obama over Benghazi will continue.
    Likely with the help of Tom Hunter and sundry

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  149. Other_Andy (2,562 comments) says:

    Not on the News…

    HAMAS shot some 20 Palestinians on Monday night for protesting against Hamas for the massive destruction inflicted on their neighbourhood in Shejaia by the IDF in the past weeks, Channel 10 reported on Tuesday.
    Over the past few days, Hamas has executed more than 30 civilians from various parts of the Gaza Strip which it suspected of collaborating with Israel, unidentified Palestinian security sources told the Palestine Press News Agency.

    Hamas claimed it had detected alleged “spies” in the area of Shejaia and said that they were executed after an investigation into some of them. Such investigations reportedly revealed weapons and communication devices in the possession of the “spies.”
    In the past Palestinian sources have quoted Hamas’ armed wing, Ezaddin al-Qassam as saying that it has used agents in civilian clothes to monitor the movement of suspected informants.

    Those bodies will turn up as unarmed civilians murdered by the Zionist occupiers…….

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  150. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Shawn LH, Your the one who engages in slur and stupefying arrogance suggesting that your US citizenship gives you special insights and privileges position in understand US politics and the economy ,including the Obama Presidency,”

    Well that statement just proves my point Stephie, because it’s a lie.

    What I actually said is that my and my families real world experience in the US (not my citizenship) means I have better insight into the country than you personally. Now note the difference between what I actually said and meant, and how you characterize it, and that is the problem.

    “I merely drew attention to the fact that even someone like Alex Jones etc would not stoop to such patronizing and condescending arrogance.”

    It’s neither of those things. It’s just fact that is inconvenient to you.

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  151. Elaycee (4,351 comments) says:

    Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) yada, yada, evil, evil, protest, protest…

    and…

    How come over 600 corporate ‘trade advisors’ get to see the TPPA text – but the public don’t?

    Several reasons -m including:

    1.Because there is a series of confidentiality clauses in the document that are still points for discussion.

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  152. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    From Shawn’s link

    “Pictures of cranes holding red-hot materials in the rubble are said to show molten steel. Had this been the case, however, the crane rigs would have immediately seized up (Blanchard 2006).”

    Or not.

    http://www.volvoce.com/constructionequipment/na/en-us/newsmedia/articles/Pages/molten_lava.aspx

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  153. Judith (8,531 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,491 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    It is a symptom of a growing intolerance demonstrated by all sorts of groups around the world who cannot cope with difference. Anyone with a belief, visual appearance, even a difference in wealth, is deemed to be the ‘enemy’. It can only go one way, and that is to pick up steam and end very badly. I cannot envisage humankind learning to be tolerant of difference, any time soon.

    Of course, we are genetically geared to be wary of difference, which doesn’t help, but the current atmosphere is also being driven by social/cultural beliefs as well.

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  154. Elaycee (4,351 comments) says:

    Yikes! So much for using the mobile…. lets try again:

    Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) yada, yada, evil, evil, protest, protest…

    and…

    How come over 600 corporate ‘trade advisors’ get to see the TPPA text – but the public don’t?

    Several reasons – including:

    1. Because there is a series of confidentiality clauses in the document.
    2. Because there are a number of items still to be sorted.
    3. Because any release of confidential information at this stage would be unlawful.
    4. Because some of this info has insider trading implications if confidentiality is not observed.
    5. Because it contains big words, Penny – you wouldn’t understand it anyway…

    Elaycee,

    Supporter: Israel’s absolute right to deal to terrorism and protect its citizens.
    Attendee: Springbok Tour Supporters Group – Wellington, 1981.
    Attendee: Wairarapa Banana Eating Competition – The Tin Hut, 1982.

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  155. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Supporter: Israel’s absolute right to deal to terrorism and protect its citizens.
    Attendee: Springbok Tour Supporters Group – Wellington, 1981.
    Attendee: Wairarapa Banana Eating Competition – The Tin Hut, 1982.”

    :) :) :)

    Brilliant parody of the not so bright one Elaycee.

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  156. cha (3,921 comments) says:

    Not on the News…

    What, unverified fiction appears on wingnut sites, reputable outlets wait for verification…

    ~shocked~

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  157. Other_Andy (2,562 comments) says:

    In the mean time not far away in Australia…

    A COUPLE of hundred men marched past the Lakemba Hotel in Sydney a week ago, chanting their support for Gaza, and with it a threat.
    Here is what they shouted while waving black flags of jihad — and pray Labor finally listens:

    Palestine is Muslim land
    The solution is Jihad …
    You can never stop Islam
    From Australia to al Sham (Syria)
    One umma (Muslim community) hand in hand
    From Lakemba to Gaza
    One call “khalifa” (Caliphate)

    That chant is a wake-up for a political class now too cowed or craven to judge between the civilised and the primitive.
    Yes, we really do now have hundreds of people who feel free to demonstrate a common cause with terrorists waging the most hideous wars in Gaza, Syria and Iraq.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/wake-up-labor-smell-the-threat/story-fni0ffxg-1227011942295

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  158. Maggy Wassilieff (316 comments) says:

    @ Judith 1:30pm

    “What I’d really like to know, rather than who is to blame or whatever, is how do any of you think it could be solved, without more bloodshed? What, apart from violence, could put a stop to the fighting? What would each side have to do?”

    A similar problem was faced by folks in Northern Ireland in the 1970s…
    Some women from Unionist and Republican sides decided to forswear all forms of violence.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4781091.stm

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  159. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “One umma (Muslim community) hand in hand
    From Lakemba to Gaza
    One call “khalifa” (Caliphate)”

    Sounds familiar.

    “Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer” (‘One People, One Nation, One Leader’) – – Adolf Hitler.

    And some idiots wonder why we call it Islamo-Fascism.

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  160. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    A must-read for stephie: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/08/barack-obama-talks-economist

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  161. Other_Andy (2,562 comments) says:

    cha says:

    Blah blah blah wingnut sites.

    Google is your fried Cha…
    https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hamas+kills+20+protesters&start=10

    What, Cha hurling abuse without checking?
    ~shocked~

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-gaza-became-one-big-suicide-bomb-20140803-zzxgn.html

    At a local Gazan protest against the war, Hamas gunmen shot and killed 20 unarmed protesters on Monday last week and summarily executed 10 alleged collaborators with Israel the same day. Not everybody wants to die for the Islamist cause.

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  162. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    @Andy: Thanks for the link. The mere sight of those primitives chanting on the streets of Sydney is bad news to any decent Aussie.

    Another “triumph” of multiculturalism.

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  163. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Not everybody wants to die for the Islamist cause.

    It was never about that.

    http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

    New York Times Reporter David Shipler cites the Israeli military governor of Gaza as boasting that Israel expressly financed the fundamentalists against the PLO:

    “Politically speaking, Islamic fundamentalists were sometimes regarded as useful to Israel, because they had conflicts with the secular supporters of the PLO. Violence between the two groups erupted occasionally on West Bank university campuses. Israeli military governor of the Gaza Strip, Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, once told me how he had financed the Islamic movement as a counterweight to the PLO and the Communists. ‘The Israeli Government gave me a budget and the military government gives to the mosques,’ he said.”

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  164. cha (3,921 comments) says:

    Yet no official verification.

    https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hamas+kills+20+protesters+site:http:%2F%2Fwww.idfblog.com

    https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hamas+kills+20+protesters+site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIDFSpokesperson

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  165. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,706 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    He nailed Yowza brilliantly last night.

    No, he didn’t. Tom likes to develop caricatures, then he denounces and slays them. I don’t recognise the caricature he has constructed of me, so when he sinks into one of his rants about the evil Soviets and my admiration for them I’m genuinely stunned. How can you argue with someone who is so enthrall to the US projecting power through foreign policy initiatives he is incapable of understanding the wielding of that power is creating a growing number of victims?

    I watched a documentary last night by Jeremy Scahill, it was called, Dirty Wars, anyway, Scahill’s interviewing this special forces veteran and the veteran’s talking about these kill lists, and how the first year there was a list of two hundred names of these Taliban guys that needed taking out. This veteran says they were quite successful taking out so many of these people that were regarded as, I dunno, dangerous imminent threats.

    The next year when the kill lists came out they contained three thousand names.

    Expressing the legitimacy of authority with killer drones, assassination squads and cruise missiles is coming to the end of its shelf life. Countries like the US and Israel will, ultimately, adopt a more conciliatory stance toward their neighbours and the rest of the planet. That is the future.

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  166. Southern Raider (1,778 comments) says:

    The left is definitely upping the anti against Israel.
    – Helen Clark has come out in a media release issued by UN blaming everything on Israel
    – First Union boss states every crime is Israel’s fault and Hamas has clean hands
    – Maxine Boag (Napier Council) is organising rallies against israel and calling for boycott through here councillor Facebook page

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  167. Southern Raider (1,778 comments) says:

    Maxine Boag has also closed comments on her Facebook page after people started challenging her about why she would block the Israeli ambassador from speaking so that people could get both sides of the story and then make up their mind.

    The left never likes a balanced discussion

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  168. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Sorry folks listerning to larry williams, CAM the slater comes across as a thick depressed droning right winger,NEGATIVE thick as, a rifle in his home to shoot the unemployed and a female sheep for comfort after a day pasting crap on his blog.I think the other right wingers on larrys event are bored with his NO NO NO attitude ,hes a pathetic fat arsehole

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  169. gump (1,614 comments) says:

    @Viking2

    >Really. Unprovoked like fuck.

    ——————

    If you have information that the attack on Connor Morris was provoked then you should report it to the Police – because they have consistently reported that the attack was unprovoked.

    On the other hand – if you are just making shit up about somebody you don’t know, then your contributions here are worthless. You are literally just contributing noise.

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  170. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “No, he didn’t. Tom likes to develop caricatures, then he denounces and slays them.”

    You’re confused. That’s you Yowza.

    “How can you argue with someone who is so enthrall to the US projecting power”

    Of course “enthralled” is not a caricature, right?

    And to answer the rather dumb question, you argue with people who disagree with you by arguing with them, not throwing a tantrum because they don’t agree with you.

    “I watched a documentary last night by Jeremy Scahill,”

    Let’s phrase that honestly shall we? You watched a propaganda film by a far left activist from The Nation mag. And the reason we should take anything he says seriously is….????

    And yes Yowza, he both nailed you and demolished your arguments.

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  171. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Ugly cites conspiracy theorist Henry Makow.

    Here is RationaWiki’s take on this guy and his total lack of credibility.

    “Dr. Henry Makow is what you get when you cross a whiny, Warren Farrellian men’s rights activist with a paranoid, David Ickian conspiracy theorist. In Makow’s warped imagination, the world is being controlled by nefarious Judeo-Masonic/Satanic/Communist forces spearheaded by the Rockefeller Foundation, to which feminism can be attributed as a scheme designed to encourage women not to have children as part of greater depopulation efforts. He also designs board games.”

    Makow also believes that the Illuminati was created by Kabbalah Jews acting in concert with the Knights Templar

    That the proper place of women is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen

    And that the Beatles were Illuminati mind controllers who promoted drug use, free sex and the New Age movement. As with Bush, Makow knows this because of a gesture John Lennon made with his hand on the cover of Yellow Submarine.

    This is the guy Ugly want’s us to take as a serious commentator on Israel.

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  172. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Didn’t know you were such a fan of RationalWiki, Shawn. Maybe there’s hope for you.

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  173. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    This is the guy Ugly wan’s us to take as a serious commentator on Israel.

    Wow, so much ad hom when I quoted a Israeli military governor of Gaza talking about how they helped create Hamas.

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  174. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Didn’t know you were such a fan of RationalWiki, Shawn”

    It’s useful sometimes.

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  175. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Perhaps Shawn would like to argue this point with RationalWiki:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Problems_with_biblical_inerrancy

    The Bible’s own position on Inerrancy

    The Bible does not refer to itself as a unit, nor could it possibly do so, since its most recent books were written generations before church councils compiled the canon of scripture. The closest the Bible comes to self-referral and claims of inerrancy is, for example, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, which says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work” (ESV). Note, first, that “Scripture” in this passage refers to, at most, the old Jewish canon, and second, that it says nothing of inerrancy or any similar concept. Going from “breathed out by God” to “without error in a single detail” is a logical leap made in relatively recent times. Should an omnipotent deity have wanted to establish a doctrine of inerrancy, the passage from 2 Timothy above could easily have indicated that “Scripture is inerrant and should be regarded as fully accurate in every historical detail”, rather than making a general statement about its being “profitable” or “useful”.

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  176. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    You are a silly man, Shawn.

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  177. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    We are slowly perverting him mike.
    The followers of gammon will win in time to condemn his god tortured body to the worms of eternal death

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  178. goldnkiwi (1,254 comments) says:

    Sad for Millie and I hope she has the inner strength not to relapse due to her partner dying. I was surprised to read that they had just been on an OE together despite their drug convictions, but nice that there will be memories of such a journey together to help through the dark times.

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  179. hj (6,807 comments) says:

    Decline in U.S. Manufacturing Jobs Tied to Shift in China Trade Policy?

    A new working paper by Peter Schott, professor of economics at the Yale School of Management, and co-author Justin Pierce, an economist at the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, links the sharp decrease in U.S. manufacturing employment after 2001 to a substantial shift in U.S. trade policy towards China in late 2000.

    “While trade with China is a prime suspect in the overall loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs in recent decades,” says Schott, “what’s interesting about the change in policy we study is that it did not affect the level of tariffs the U.S. applied to Chinese imports. Rather, it eliminated uncertainty about those tariffs.” Before 2000, Chinese imports into the United States enjoyed the same low tariffs that the U.S. applies to other countries with which it has “normal trade relations” (NTR). In China’s case, however, this NTR status was subject to politically contentious annual renewals. With the October 2000 change in policy, China’s NTR status became permanent.

    Pierce and Schott show that U.S. manufacturing employment losses starting in 2001 are concentrated in industries where a failed annual re-approval would have resulted in the sharpest increase in tariffs. They also show that these same industries see a large rise in U.S. imports from China as well as in the number of U.S. firms that import from China.

    http://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/decline-us-manufacturing-jobs-tied-shift-china-trade-policy

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  180. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Wow, so much ad hom when I quoted a Israeli military governor of Gaza talking about how the help create Hamas.”

    Your willingness to use people like Makow speaks to your lack of credibility. And possibly your mental state.

    You did not quote an Israeli military governor, you supposedly quoted a reporter, and you gave no link for the quote, so we do not know if it is even a real quote.

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  181. Nookin (3,260 comments) says:

    Gee, Lurcher. Why don’t you stop beating round the bush and tell us what you really mean?

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  182. wiseowl (859 comments) says:

    Yes Raider, Maxine Boag is one of those Labour Party councillors who they keep electing for some strange reason.

    Typical leftie who doesn’t have a clue about anything.

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  183. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “You are a silly man, Shawn.”

    Not very good at this debating thing are ya Yowza. :)

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  184. Yoza (1,771 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,710 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    [Yoza]“How can you argue with someone who is so enthrall to the US projecting power”

    Of course “enthralled” is not a caricature, right?

    I don’t recall Tom ever questioning US state violence abroad. Perhaps you could provide a link, Shawn.

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  185. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Perhaps Shawn would like to argue this point with RationalWiki:”

    Why would I? I agree with it. I’m an Anglican, not a fundamentalist. I subscribe to the classical Anglican understanding of Scripture, not fundamentalist inerrancy.

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  186. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I don’t recall Tom ever questioning US state violence abroad.”

    Have you asked him if he agrees with every single overseas military action the US has done? Is asking him difficult in some way?

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  187. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Why would I? I agree with it.

    Really? That isn’t consistent with your position here:

    “ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God, and thus all of it must be taken together, rather than indulging in your straw man tactic of only selectively quoting it.”

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  188. jcuk (664 comments) says:

    “You can write ‘Conservastive’ with lipstick on a pig but that doesn’t make to pig conservative”

    Particularly when Christmas is coming up ….PG

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  189. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Nookin (3,048 comments) says:
    August 4th, 2014 at 5:08 pm
    Gee, Lurcher. Why don’t you stop beating round the bush and tell us what you really mean?

    um um sorry Nookin if i say cam is full of piss and wind, overtalks others and IS HIS FATHERS SON, and is driven down a single railway line with no diversions, some like his cut and paste blog with some news but his posters think hes a god, gag chunter,says it all

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  190. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Really? That isn’t consistent with your position here.

    “ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God, and thus all of it must be taken together, rather than indulging in your straw man tactic of only selectively quoting it.”

    Yes it is. The classical Anglican (and for that matter Lutheran, Roman Catholic and Orthodox) teaching is that all of Scripture is the Revelation/Word of God, but this is not the same thing as the doctrine of inerrancy, which states that all of Scripture must be taken in a superficially literal fashion. God is perfectly capable of using metaphor.

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  191. Don the Kiwi (1,684 comments) says:

    There are four “senses” of Scripture.

    Ugly gives us the non senses of scripture. ;-)

    Actually, quoting scripture – and in most cases incorrectly – is really not the way to frame or attempt to win an argument on a secular political blog.
    Much better to use logic and verifiable quotes – then people can understand. But many people cannot give a stuff about scripture.

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  192. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes it is.

    No, your statements are not consistent.

    You said that you agreed with the following from RationalWiki:

    “The Bible does not refer to itself as a unit, nor could it possibly do so, since its most recent books were written generations before church councils compiled the canon of scripture. The closest the Bible comes to self-referral and claims of inerrancy is, for example, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, which says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching…”

    … but RationalWiki contradicts you when you said earlier that:

    “ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God…”

    … because as RationalWiki points out, The Bible wasn’t being referred to by Paul because the canon didn’t yet exist back then.

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  193. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Actually, quoting scripture – and in most cases incorrectly – is really not the way to frame or attempt to win an argument on a secular political blog.”

    Generally speaking I agree with you. The exception is when a debate is actually over a theological issue, as is the case with Israel and the Holy Land.

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  194. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “No, your statements are not consistent.”

    Only in your bizarre little mind Ugly.

    “because as RationalWiki points out, The Bible wasn’t being referred to by Paul because the canon didn’t yet exist.”

    The canon did exist, it was just incomplete, which is what RW was referring too. And yes, Paul was referring to the OT, but in doing so he makes the point that the legitimacy of the OT is because of it’s Divine origin, which Christians understand to include the NT.

    But none of these things has anything to do with the fundamentalist idea of inerrency, which is a totally different issue.

    Nice attempt to change the subject from the fact that you quoted Makow though. And still waiting for a credible source for that supposed quote of the Israeli governor.

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  195. Don the Kiwi (1,684 comments) says:

    “Generally speaking I agree with you. The exception is when a debate is actually over a theological issue, as is the case with Israel and the Holy Land.”

    Correct Shaun, but there is as much verifiable evidence in historical ducuments as well. Of course, the bible is recognised as a historical document – by objective analysis. (Some on this blog may dispute that) :-)

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  196. Reid (16,183 comments) says:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/brian-eno-on-the-israelgaza-crisis-how-can-you-justify-images-such-as-this-9643916.html

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  197. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The canon did exist

    No it didn’t. Didn’t you just agree with the following from RationalWiki?

    “since its most recent books were written generations before church councils compiled the canon of scripture”

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  198. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Didn’t you just agree with the following from RationalWiki?

    “since its most recent books were written generations before church councils compiled the canon of scripture”

    Yes, but the councils compiled the final canon, note that word, final. That does not mean the canon did not exist in an incomplete form.

    So, are you on board with everything Makow says?

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  199. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Correct Shaun, but there is as much verifiable evidence in historical ducuments as well. ”

    I agree Don.

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  200. lilman (949 comments) says:

    Lurcher you gotta be joking?

    Listening to Pagani raving on about wool development in Ratahei was about as inspiring as watching David Cunliffe eating an apple through a tennis racket.

    Slater is if anything ahead of the game,so listening the left bullshit on whilst already developing threads for the next week let alone whats going on today, it must be very hard to sound enthused.

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  201. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes, but the councils compiled the final canon, note that word, final.

    The issue of whether the canon means the early canon from the Council of Trent or any later canon is irrelevant.

    The point remains that you agreed with the statement that “most recent books were written generations before church councils compiled the canon of scripture”, in reference to Paul’s statement that “All Scripture is breathed out by God”, and so you contradicted yourself when you said that “ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God”.

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  202. RF (1,364 comments) says:

    Judith.. 11.14am.

    Good post !!!!

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  203. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “The issue of whether the canon means the early canon from the Council of Trent”

    The Council of Trent did not finalize the early canon. The canon was generally accepted by the mid third century.

    “The point remains”

    The point remains that you’re trying to side step the issue of why anyone should take Makow seriously.

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  204. nasska (11,095 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi @ 5.48pm

    Manure is manure, fresh or old. :)

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  205. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The Council of Trent did not finalize the early canon. The canon was generally accepted by the mid third century.

    So what? It doesn’t affect the point that you’ve contradicted yourself regarding an argument that you later claimed to have won “hands down”.

    The point remains that you’re trying to side step the issue of why anyone should take Makow seriously.

    No, I don’t care if people take him seriously or not. My post wasn’t about Makow, it was about an Israeli military governor describing how they helped to establish Hamas.

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  206. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “So what? It doesn’t affect the point that you’ve contradicted yourself regarding an argument that you later claimed to have won “hands down”.”

    That argument was about Israel, not the canon of Scripture. Trying to bait and switch again Ugly?

    “My post wasn’t about Makow, it was about an Israeli military governor describing how they helped to establish Hamas.”

    LOL, bullshit! Your claim about this was based on Makow’s say so! One goes with the other! If Makow cannot be trusted, then neither can your claim about Israel creating HAMAS.

    Cripes, talk about contradicting yourself! :)

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  207. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Manure is manure, fresh or old.”

    Been reading the Labour Party manifesto again naaska? :)

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  208. SGA (982 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi at 5:48 pm

    Of course, the bible is recognised as a historical document – by objective analysis.

    Honest question – what does something being recognised as an historical document mean? In one sense, a Shakespeare first folio is an historical document, but I’m guessing you mean more than that?

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  209. nasska (11,095 comments) says:

    SGA

    A document becomes historical when there’s no one left alive who can testify that it’s actually a load of crap.

    A bit like Maori oral history. :)

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  210. cricko (289 comments) says:

    And they don’t teach history these days. They should.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715098/The-haunting-account-trenches-ll-read-brilliant-anthology-Birdsong-author-Sebastian-Faulks.html

    My Grandfather who lived in Beckenham, Christchurch volunteered age 22 in 1916

    1917 was blown up by shellfire in France. Hospitalised back to England, sent to a camp in England where
    soldiers were sent to ‘harden up’ after recovering and discharge from hospital (it actually says a camp to harden up in his service record)

    Redeployed to France 1917 where he was gassed in the trench. Lost a lung as a result.

    Volunteered again in 1939 Lingered on and died of his injuries in 1959

    Kids these days have no idea.

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  211. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That argument was about Israel, not the canon of Scripture.

    Yes, it was about Israel, specifically that the Zionist state was not the rebirth of the nation of Israel because the establishment of the Zionist state was not a messianic event. In that argument you said that “ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God” in order to support your position, and you’ve now contradicted yourself by agreeing with RationalWiki’s take on it.

    Trying to bait and switch again Ugly?

    If you really think that I’ve tried that before, then quote it.

    “My post wasn’t about Makow, it was about an Israeli military governor describing how they helped to establish Hamas.”

    LOL, bullshit! Your claim about this was based on Makow’s say so!

    Nope. What I posted was:

    http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

    New York Times Reporter David Shipler cites the Israeli military governor of Gaza as boasting that Israel expressly financed the fundamentalists against the PLO:

    “Politically speaking, Islamic fundamentalists were sometimes regarded as useful to Israel, because they had conflicts with the secular supporters of the PLO. Violence between the two groups erupted occasionally on West Bank university campuses. Israeli military governor of the Gaza Strip, Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, once told me how he had financed the Islamic movement as a counterweight to the PLO and the Communists. ‘The Israeli Government gave me a budget and the military government gives to the mosques,’ he said.”

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  212. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    Good god, I step away from KB for a few hours and the place goes berserk ….

    I consider Tom’s contributions to be the rarest of all things on KB – must reads … – cha

    (Most of your comments are a must read for me – Redbaiter

    WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON AROUND HERE?

    Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

    Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?

    Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

    Venkman: Exactly.

    Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

    Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes…

    Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

    Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!

    Fortunately I see I can still rely on Yoza and Stephieboy!

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  213. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Nope. What I posted was: http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

    Yes, a link to Makow’s site. See, if you look really closely Ugly, your will see ‘henrymakow’ in that link. Or is it that in your fantasy world a link to a site is not really a link to a site? As to the article contained in it, that has been “abridged” by Makow.

    Take your meds Ugly, your insanity is showing.

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  214. Southern Raider (1,778 comments) says:

    Protesting against Israel in the diamond district of New York is probably not this smartest move.

    See how disillusioned and confused they get once they discover there is a counter protest

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NkZdVeb9iSY

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  215. EAD (937 comments) says:

    Good article/video on the hedge that explains the process of money creation very succinctly.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-03/money-creation-so-simple-mind-repelled

    “As John Kenneth Galbraith famously stated, “The process by which money is created is so simple the mind is repelled.” As Peak Prosperity’s Chris Martenson explains (as part of his excellent Crash Course), essentially, money is lent into existence though fractional reserve banking. The dollars you deposit at the bank? They turn into nearly 10x that amount as your bank subsequently makes loans using that money as collateral.

    As simple as the process is, nearly every American remains ignorant of it and its massive implications.

    At the heart of the matter is this: our money supply and its related debt obligations MUST continue expanding (thereby devaluing the purchasing power of each dollar ad infinitum) — forever — or the entire system collapses upon itself. Prepare to be repelled…”

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  216. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    So our schools are going to all get seperate ‘Transgender’ toilets and changing sheds for confused kids…
    Seriously.. What the fuck??

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  217. EAD (937 comments) says:

    Shawn – While you are right to point out that this Mankow character has some “interesting” ideas, it is very revealing that you use the site “rationalwiki” to support your argument.

    Rationalwiki is a site often referenced by far-left extremists who seek talking points to “shut down the debate” with over the top rhetoric

    Perhaps you are further “left” than you care admit?

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  218. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “While you are right to point out that this Mankow character has some “interesting” ideas, it is very revealing that you use the site “rationalwiki” to support your argument.”

    Not really. It is sometimes useful, sometimes not.

    “Perhaps you are further “left” than you care admit?”

    The Left-Right spectrum is subjective to a degree. From my point of view your take on foreign policy and national defense is no different to the extreme Left’s, so…..back at ya! :)

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  219. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes, a link to Makow’s site.

    Which you took out of its original context, Shawn. Here it is once again in its original context, giving attribution an unnamed Israeli military governor of Gaza:

    http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

    New York Times Reporter David Shipler cites the Israeli military governor of Gaza as boasting that Israel expressly financed the fundamentalists against the PLO:

    “Politically speaking, Islamic fundamentalists were sometimes regarded as useful to Israel, because they had conflicts with the secular supporters of the PLO. Violence between the two groups erupted occasionally on West Bank university campuses. Israeli military governor of the Gaza Strip, Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, once told me how he had financed the Islamic movement as a counterweight to the PLO and the Communists. ‘The Israeli Government gave me a budget and the military government gives to the mosques,’ he said.”

    Also, here’s another quotes from Makow’s site which helps illustrate the point:

    According to Robert Dreyfuss, author of “Devil’s Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam”:

    “And beginning in 1967 through the late 1980s, Israel helped the Muslim Brotherhood establish itself in the occupied territories. It assisted Ahmed Yassin, the leader of the Brotherhood, in creating Hamas, betting that its Islamist character would weaken the PLO.”

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  220. Griff (7,245 comments) says:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moonbat

    According to liberals

    The far-left-wing sort of moonbats are the closest analogies to wingnuts. In North America, the former is much more rare than the latter, probably due to recent shifts to the political right, but where they do exist it’s usually of a more hard green bent as opposed to an economic one (e.g. a communist). The more extreme buffoons of the anti-imperialism movement, like Ward Churchill, also contribute heavily to America’s moonbat population.

    One reliable heuristic when separating moonbats from rational lefties is their categorical opposition to everything the U.S. does overseas, to a degree unwarranted by skepticism. For example, Muammar Gaddafi kills protesters? Serb militias ethnically cleanse Bosnia and Kosovo? All of this is protested vigorously… until the U.S. and its allies move to intervene against the offenders, at which point genuine moonbats will often perform an instantaneous 180 and defend the repressive regime that they had previously loathed. It is rational to criticize a war by saying that it is killing more people than it was meant to save, causing major regional instability, or that it will generate unwanted blowback; when one turns to sensationalism, platitudes, and name-calling, one has crossed into moonbat territory.

    Cranks in general — alties, conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, anti-GMO crusaders, and especially the New Age crowd — are often classified as moonbats, unless their ideas are intertwined with a right-wing ideology, in which case the wingnut label is more appropriate. Examples of cranky moonbats are David Icke and Vani Hari. Alex Jones, contrariwise, is a wingnut due to his wacky theories fueling a Christian fundamentalist agenda.

    A final subcategory of moonbats generally leans left while holding a few views more typical of wingnuts. Cathy Brennan’s extreme transphobia and Sam Harris’s support for racial profiling fall in this category.

    For those interested, RationalWiki has a list of genuine nutty far-left activists and ideas at the bottom of this page, under the category “extreme moonbattery.”

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  221. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    @ Southern Raider: August 4th, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Absolutely fantastic video SR! That was truly inspiring!

    Cripes, we need more Jews in NZ.

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  222. cricko (289 comments) says:

    On the anniversay of the out break of the Great War why can’t some fuckwits show a little respect and
    just stop the constant bickering about Hamas V Israel for even a few minutes.

    Pick it up again tomorrow fuckwits.

    Nothing will have changed, and your idle chatter will never change anything anyway.

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  223. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    Ah – Elycee is gumming away. (yawn)….

    I know you don’t understand or support ‘transparency’ – you don’t put your name to posts – gutless anonymous Elycee.
    (Meant of course in a caring way :)

    Penny Bright

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  224. EAD (937 comments) says:

    Since when has military adventurism ever been a policy of the so called “right”? Don’t tell me George “Big Government Conservative” Bush (his own words) was anywhere right on the left/right spectrum.

    As you know I’m Austrian/Libertarian in my outlook on just about all matters with Ron Paul being my most respected politician with whom I share the most similar outlook with. His campaign song below was called “end this war”.

    This article on Mises Daily explains best that the only rational action for a person on the right is to support a strong a military that only should be used for self defence. It says “As society and government merge into the state during wartime, the individual begins to disappear. The individual becomes part of what Bourne called “the herd.” He described the term: “The State is the organization of the herd to act offensively or defensively against another herd similarly organized.”

    http://mises.org/daily/5748/Bourne-of-War

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  225. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Watching the terrorist supporting scum (the usual mix of Islamo-Fascists and their dumbass Western Lefty puppets) get drowned out and pushed back was outstanding!

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  226. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Since when has military adventurism ever been a policy of the so called “right”?”

    For most of it’s history. The so=called Paleo-Cons and Paleo-Libertarians were never representative of the Right except for a brief period in the 20’s to 30’s when the isolationists held sway, and when many of the same were supportive of Hitler.

    “His campaign song below was called “end this war”.”

    Sounds like a drug addled lefty hippy from the sixties. No wonder most heartland conservatives don’t support him.

    “This article on Mises Daily explains best that the only rational action”

    The Miseans are living in a fantasy land. Isolationism is impossible in a globalist world.

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  227. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “gutless anonymous Elycee.”

    Well unlike you Penny shes not stealing from rate payers or marching in the streets with Jew haters and terrorist supporters screeching like nutjob.

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  228. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    On the anniversay of the out break of the Great War why can’t some fuckwits show a little respect and
    just stop the constant bickering about Hamas V Israel for even a few minutes.

    Because it’s not about Hamas vs Israel, it’s about the US-Zionist alliance vs the Palestinians and other middle eastern people.

    The Zionist involvement in establishing Hamas is described here.

    The US/NATO involvement in establishing Al Qaeda is described here:

    “.. it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul.” ~ Zbigniew Brzezinski

    And here

    “To paraphrase Edmonds: though the collusion with radical Islam had been going on for decades, it wasn’t until 1996 that a formal decision was made by NATO to abandon their previous secret relationship with neo-Fascists and arch-Nationalists and replace them with Islamists.”

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  229. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “New York Times Reporter David Shipler cites the Israeli military governor of Gaza”

    Prove it. The only “evidence” for this is Makows site. He gives no independent verification. There is no link to the actual article. And he has “abridged” the article, which, given Makows insanity could mean anything. In short, we have no way of knowing if the article itself exists, or that the journalist even said what he said, or, even if he did, if he is telling the truth.

    There is no evidence here, there are no facts here, just Makow’s say so.

    So I call bullshit on the claim.

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  230. EAD (937 comments) says:

    Shawn – think my man, think!

    Where did this “globalist world” meme originate from and who pushes it?

    Most Heartland conservative supporters don’t support him? Then how did he win two Conservative Political Action Conference(CPAC) straw polls for 2 years in a row? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/12/ron-paul-wins-presidential-straw-poll-cpac/

    Supportive of Hitler?? Paleo cons/paleo libertarians??? Where on earth do you get your ideas from?

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  231. Jack5 (5,005 comments) says:

    Hosking on 7 Sharp tonight weighed in on behalf of National’s PCCO* faction to support the sale of Lochinver station to the Chinese.

    State-owned TV backing the sale of our land to China when China won’t sell land to New Zealanders! Sort of fits the Chinese Communist state-capitalism model, I suppose.

    Of course, Hosking alleged racism as one reason for opposing the sale. No mention of the non-reciprocal position for New Zealanders who want to buy China land, no mention of course of Key’s historic caution about foreign sales of our land (link repeated below), no mention that China and Middle East oil barons are buying up land around the world and that Brazil has just moved to block them by declaring land a strategic asset. (Try as a foreigner to buy a strategic asset in China and see how you get on.)

    Foreign land sales are going to be an issue in the election campaign, so perhaps Hosking should be taken off air until after the voting.

    The link to John Key’s earlier view (are you suggesting he is a racist, Hosking?):

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10656731

    *PCCO = Pro Communist Chinese Oligarchs

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  232. cricko (289 comments) says:

    Hey Ugly Truth.

    You really are one poor sad sick fuck.
    And I mean that most sincerely.

    ‘Obsessed’ demented, wouldn’t even come close.

    Fuck, you even go to great lenghts to argue about what you are even arguing about.

    You saddo.

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  233. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Big fan of the Zionist crime syndicate, are you, cricko?

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  234. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Shawn – think my man, think!”

    Back at ya.

    “Where did this “globalist world” meme originate from and who pushes it?”

    Technology. It’s simply a function of global trade and global communications.

    “Most Heartland conservative supporters don’t support him? Then how did he win two Conservative Political Action Conference(CPAC) straw polls for 2 years in a row?”

    CPAC is a Beltway organization, which is why it is often not representative of heartland Americans. That is why Paul can win a straw poll there, but bomb when it comes to the primaries.

    Anyway, I’m out for the rest of the evening. Bye all.

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  235. Nostradamus (3,249 comments) says:

    Penny Not-So:

    I noted the following statement on your blog:

    I believe that is high time that NZ got our ‘House’ in order, and established the legislative framework to prevent and fight corruption, and ensure genuine transparency and accountability in local and central government and within the judiciary.

    If you support the ‘self-funded’ work I am doing – your donations are welcome and appreciated.

    Kiwibank

    Account Name: P M Bright
    Account Number: [redacted]

    Thanks! :)

    So, Penny, let’s put your transparency claims to the test:

    1. How many people have made donations through your website since you posted your bank account details?

    2. In the last financial year:

    – What was the total amount donated?
    – Who made the smallest donation, and how much was their donation?
    – Who made the largest donation, and how much was their donation?

    3. Have you spent any of the total amount donated in the last financial year?

    4. If yes to 3, please specify: (i) each item purchased; (ii) when it was purchased; (iii) the purpose for which it was purchased; and (iv) the relevant amount.

    5. In your Return of Electoral Donations and Expenses form, you declared an amount of $42.78 spent on “4 cans spray ink”? Given the unusual nature of that purchase in the context of a mayoral campaign, did the amount of $42.78 come from donations? Were the “4 cans spray ink” used to deface other candidates’ signs?

    6. Have you retained any of the total amount donated in the last financial year as remuneration (however characterised) for your “self-funded work”?

    7. If yes to 6, how much have you retained, and for what purpose?

    8. If yes to 6, have you, or do you intend to, declare the retained amount in your tax return?

    Your answers – all in the name of transparency – will be of considerable interest to Kiwiblog readers and the IRD!

    But, of course, you have no intention of being all that transparent, do you?

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  236. EAD (937 comments) says:

    @ Jack5

    excellent link – John Keys hypocrisy on this issue is breathtaking. What is even more bewildering is the “John Key can do no wrong” brigade defending the indefensible.

    It’s not about “wayyyyycism” Prime Minister Key, it’s about:
    – reciprocity (can New Zealanders buy Chinese farms?)
    – The chain of ownership – I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid about a private citizen from any country coming here, buying a farm and farming it, but when the farm is basically being purchased by the Chinese Government that is a different story
    – not wanting to become serfs in our own country. John Key admitted this himself in the article you linked to but now seems to conveniently have changed tune

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  237. Nookin (3,260 comments) says:

    Jack5.

    I hope you are not a spin doctor by profession. You’ll go broke pdq if so.

    Mike Hosking did not advocate the sale of farmland to China. He pointed out the hypocrisy of those who say nothing about overseas sales until there is a sale to China. I cannot recall the ranking but China seems to be 5 or 6 on the list but way up top for prompting outcry.
    Did you recall that it was Labour who negotiated the free trade agreement with China?
    Did you recall that it was Labour that wrote the rules relating to the sale of farmland to foreigners, that National tightened them and that these sale would have proceeded under Labour’s rules?
    Isn’t this what Hosking is saying — that there are some who are not willing to let facts get in the way of a good story?
    Mike Hosking is hardly the spokesperson for the State Broadcaster and the inference that TV1 is the modern day version of Pravda in the 60s and 70s is nonsense.
    Do you really expect China to alter its laws of land tenure for little ole NZ?
    Have you read this:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11291767?
    Yet more investment by an NZ company in China? An interest (short of ownership, probably but still and interest in farmland.)
    Do you think that maybe this article was worthy of mention or doesn’t it fit your view of our ability to invest in China? After all, as Hosking would say — why let facts get in the way of a good story?

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  238. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    The real crime syndicate in the Holy Land.

    Son of Hamas founder: Hamas tortures and kills Palestinian children.

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  239. Jack5 (5,005 comments) says:

    Re Nookin at 9.45:

    Opposition to foreign sales of land has not been restricted to purchases by Republic of China interests. I have posted links in the last few days to earlier concerns about Shania Twain’s purchases in Queenstown for instance.

    The point is Hosking tonight branded as xenophobic, even racist, those who question sales overseas of our freehold land.

    From that, I assume he would class Brazilians as racist for that country’s action to classify land as a strategic asset with extremely tight limits on its sales to foreigners.

    I meet many people who are concerned about sales overseas of our arable land and permanent grasslands, which are one of our country’s few strategic assets. All are getting pissed off with political cronies of Chinese interests and these interests’ PR hacks and lobbyists trying to silence questioning of such sales with cries of “racism!” and “xenophobia!”.

    TVNZ is a State owned entity sustained by taxpayer cash piped in through Creative NZ etc, cash which it then classifies as revenue and claims to be earning a profit for the state. Publishers, including TV channels, must surely be legally liable for the statements of their employees. If not, surely they ought to preface Hosking’s show with a statement along the lines: the views expressed in this show are not necessarily the views of TVNZ.

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  240. gump (1,614 comments) says:

    @Longknives

    >So our schools are going to all get seperate ‘Transgender’ toilets and changing sheds for confused kids…
    Seriously.. What the fuck??

    ————————

    Actually, they’re getting some separate toilets that anybody can use.

    Not sure why this is a problem for you. But I guess you’ll make up a reason.

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  241. Gulag1917 (851 comments) says:

    Ethnic Cleansing 101 –
    Israel Wipes Out Entire Gaza Neighborhood in 1 Minute

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  242. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    Someone should string up Roger Douglas, he’s the bastard who cleared the way for rich foreigners to make NZ farms too dear for New Zealanders to buy.

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  243. deadrightkev (402 comments) says:

    “Rankin has also claimed “the polling we have done says I have a chance of winning”. If it’s the same sort of polling Craig claimed prior to the last election that can be viewed with suspicion.”

    In 2011 Craig relied on information he was provided by a so called experienced pollster. He was let down but it didn’t stop National lap bloggers like Slater character assassinating. This election I think you will find he not only has the right pollster but he can afford to make good decisions on the back of it.

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  244. deadrightkev (402 comments) says:

    “Someone should string up Roger Douglas, he’s the bastard who cleared the way for rich foreigners to make NZ farms too dear for New Zealanders to buy.”

    What an uneducated Dickhead. He removed subsidies so farming could become efficient and competitive in the world. He also cleared the way for Kiwis to get access to global goods and services at much cheaper prices and stopped privilege for the rich via import license.

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  245. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    And he also cleared the way for rich foreigners to make NZ farms too dear for New Zealanders to buy, so fuck off.

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