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October 6, 2005 11:23am by David Farrar

Transmission Gully

The Wellington northern access decision is a mess. The Government has given the local bodies a claytons choice

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Comment38

Uncategorised
Local Body Politics

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Comments (38)

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ZenTiger

As I said at Sir Humphrey’s:

At least thirty years ago Wellington started talking about getting a decent motorway out of the capital, heading North. A country of vision would have had an 8 lane highway, a dual express (like 300kph) train line, and safe cycling tracks between Wellington and Auckland by now. With good roads, it would have been a 6 hour trip. Maybe the toll would have been coming off next year.

Instead, after 30 years of pissing around consulting, investigating, much crying on how hard it is to build anything like roads, bridges, and the bloody pyramids of Egypt we have yet another consultation process.

It sounds like the consultation process is to say “dump Transmission Gully and we demolish lots of houses, coastline and a few businesses to build a coastal highway. It will take 24 years, and there will be constant roadworks all that time so you can write off about 5 years of your life sitting in queues”

This is getting beyond a joke. It was a joke about 15 years ago. Now its just pathetic. Here’s the solution. Any person involved in discussing and consulting on Transmission Gully since 30 years ago, that held the process up in any way shape or form gets tracked down and given a shovel. They start digging.

Whilst they are digging they can discuss all the issues with 30 years of “expertise” and the combined knowledge of 30 years of reports, studies, guides, consultations, meetings, press releases, promises, backtracks and general crap. Whilst they are digging, we can play, on an I-Max sized screen a collection of road projects completed around the world in the past 100 years.

For the steep grades suggested for the route, they can be shown pictures of massive excavation. Tunnels. Big Earth Moving Equipment. Explosives.

I’m sure our consultative experts will soon figure out the benefits of supplementing their shovelling with some of the afore-mentioned equipment.

And once they get through to Paraparaumu, they can keep going up to Auckland.
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October 6, 2005 12:21pm
darren

I agree with Zen.
Sir Humphreys well aired this topic yesterday but it is good for “blog central” as the lovely Cathy Odgers calls it, to consider the issue as well.
I’ll just add that there is a widespread lack of vision among the political elite.
Now, we will have nannying Greens who will want nothing to happen, bar force people onto buses and trains.
It is almost like the Liar-bour government is using underhand tactics to force people into something they do not want (a coast road) which might leave Wellington with nothing at all.
It should be to New Zealand’s shame that its capital is linked to the outside world by a piss-poor twisted single carriageway road that cannot really be widened because of its proximity to the sea, railway tracks, houses, etc.
Transmission Gully offers a clear route bypassing all these probelms and provides an alternate route for Wellington- which is vital when the coast road gets blocked by accidents, landslips, etc.
Liar-bour has failed Wellington, Peter Dunne has failed Wellington. Perhaps getting nothing except Auckland-style congestion, which will eventually happen, is what the capital deserves for re-electing the left, when it is only the right that was promising proper, long-term solutions for Wellington’s roading problems.
One final question is, the centennial highway is twisted and quite dangerous passing through many built up areas, with bad junctions, etc.
How many more lives will be lost because the politicians refuse to take off there blinkers and accept that Transmission Gully offers a safe motorway route away from houses and allows the traffic to quickly exit and enter the capital?

All the best

Darren
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October 6, 2005 12:35pm
culma

220 million, that’s not even 1 years operating budget for the Wananga.
Tell you what I have approx 30 cubic meters of freight going through there weekly, put a toll on the road through Transmission Gully, lets be honest a certain few of us will end up paying for it any way, just get up and running.
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October 6, 2005 12:37pm
Derryn

I totally agree with Zen, Darren & Culma re Transmission Gully.
What do we have to do. We are already paying for Dorklands roads with our 5c Litre Petrol tax, when in fact how many of us venture that far to ever use these roads we are paying for?? We just lost two Wellington MP’s from Cabinet who could have made a difference and while Ms Clark leads this country there will be no action on this as she has never committed to any improvement in this area for our Capital. Ms Clark made a comment in 2004 when Paekakareki Hill slips closed State Highway 1 due to 100 year floods, she commented that this was a once in a lifetime closure!! Tell that to all the people who died on Centenial Highway and their families and guess what Helen: the roads closed for hours on end various times throughout the year. I challenge the Dominion Post, research 10 years accidents, deaths, injuries, weather conditions vs road closures in this area, add in the population growth of Kapiti/Horwhenu, traffic using the road daily and calculate how many more lives we need to give before someone takes action, maybe this will give us some hope if we have a goal of numbers required to be sacrificed before action will happen. Not to mention the enormous cost to the Wellington economy by road closures, how many businesses just don’t bother setting up in Wellington because it is too hard?? Do the sums Dom Post and get in the faces of those who can make a difference. Ms Clark flies in and out of the Capital so she wouldn’t have a clue as do most of her cabinet members.
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October 6, 2005 1:26pm
darren

Yes, Derryn, Clark flies into the capital.
By jet or by broomstick, I am not sure 🙂
But I bet the police wouldn’t exceed 120kmh on that coast road.
The DomPost must be told.
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October 6, 2005 1:32pm
David P

There is an inclination towards cheap and nasty in NZ infrastructure. Look at the widening that has been completed (??? or can’t be far off) through Mana. You’re taking, effectively, a motorway, terminating it at an enormously congested roundabout. And then taking it along a dual carriageway with traffic lights and houses on either side. It’s dangerous, bad for traffic flow, and can’t possibly be a long term part of any modern state highway. So why did the government waste money on it, rather than working on a long term solution?

Not that TG is a particularly good route. But at least it isn’t trying to string a mishmash of existing roads together in to some half baked motorway alternative.
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October 6, 2005 1:54pm
culma

Wellington you have no real voice in Parliament this issue is dead in the water, Trevor Mallard, Annette King, Marion Hobbs, Darren Hughes, Paul Swain, Steve Meharey,if any of you had any BALLS you would do something for those that voted you in,but no you all sit there, to scared to make a sound rather than bringing down the wrath of FRAU CLARK. Get a real job people, where you actually have to do something, rather than hiding behind the Mistresses dress. I have left Winnie Laban off this list as who knows, she may have the best interests of her constituents at heart and actually do something for her Salary.
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October 6, 2005 2:14pm
Mike Collins

Haha,

That is exactly how I put it to Winnie Laban at our last candidates meeting before the election. Basically I got sick of hearing at every meeting that she supports Transmission Gully and always has. She is part of a government that is, as you say DPF, providing a clayton’s choice to local bodies.

This was the only time I have ever seen Winnie lose her rag, and those who know her will testify that that is a pretty rare thing. It is very much a sore spot for local Labour MPs who have dodged the issue until now. The more pressure put on them on this issue the better.
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October 6, 2005 2:21pm
culma

Meharey – humor has it you are the the one that will pick up whats left after Frau Clark has finished, lets see some leadership, I know she told you all, you weren’t aloud to speak to the media on election night, that was weeks ago.
Time to start doing something, c’mon now get back to work.
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October 6, 2005 2:41pm
darren

What about Mallard??

Shouldn’t he do something about roading as he is from Wellington region as well?
Or is he only fit for inventing smears against the National Party?
Is he likely to keep edukashun?
Will he go elsewhere?
Should he?

Cheers

Darren

PS In answer to Paul W. Normally, your background should not bar you to parliament. But as there is such a heavy union/ teaching/ public sector bias in the Liar-bour party, I feel this might affect their ability to understand the rest of the country, let alone represent it.
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October 6, 2005 3:05pm
culma

darren – I think you have it, put her in a cop car, take her from Wellington to Palmerston North at 180 KPH, have a cup of tea with Meharey, then throw her back in and do the same coming back, the only thing you have to do is find a cop that is prepared to lose his licence and his job.
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October 6, 2005 3:08pm
Derryn

Go you Kiwi’s go.
We don’t have enough cops down this way to drive Helen out of Wellington, sorry!! They are too busy looking for handbags. As my brother said “pitty she wasn’t attached to the handle”.

Seriously though, come on you Politicians, Local Body Electorates etc get on with it. Enough is enough – why are WE waiting. Zen is right 15 years ago the road infrastructure into our Capital was a joke, it is downright dangerous now.
As I travel home 50km to Te Horo tonight it will take me approximately an hour to do so. Yes it is my choice to live up the coast, but I pay PAYE, GST, Petrol Tax, Tax on Tax etc. I pay the extra cost of fuel & wear & tare on my vehicle to travel to work, and I now pay in discomfort because of rediculous roadworks that seem to be ongoing and pointless. Mana is a mess as is SH1 Northbound leading into Paraparumu, putting a walkway and curb in for half a dozen residence, and lets not talk about McKays crossing!!!@%# Lindale took twice as long as it should have at an excessive budget blow out and even with the $$$ contribution by Lindale businesses they cocked that up which is now affecting these businesses – good one Transit.
COME ON YOU LOT SUPOSIDLY RUNNING THIS COUNTRY, do what the PEOPLE need, not want but NEED. Give us accessibility to our employement and homes, give us what you have in your own Electorates. I ask you Helen Clark “BE A LEADER” I didn’t vote for you but am stuck with you as the leader of my country, my voice still counts and if you continue to ignore the people you will fall flater on your face than you did in this election – of course your parties underhand tacktics helped push you over the threshold but then we are used to that with Paintergate, Policegate, Handbaggate, you are untouchable. Make a change though – Run the Country and Listen to the People. Now there’s a though.
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October 6, 2005 3:33pm
Derryn

You cannot possibly get over 5km per hour on SH1 from Porirua to North of Paraparaumu. Believe me I do it every day. 1 Hour to travel 45km. Often longer. Don’t bother on a long weekend, you have to take the Friday off work. Last Easter took me 2 1/2 hours to get home. No accidents just congestion.

Helen would have been home quicker flying from Wellington to Auckland and by car home. But then her drivers have to be oblivious to the speed limit because of the cargo!!

Here’s a thought. Politicians why don’t you run the country this term in office. Why not address the real issues of the real people. We don’t need any money pored into Te Papa, We don’t need any more money wasted on court cases caused through Prime Ministerial Hypocrasy and We didn’t need to waste Police time searching for a handbag that was found. Give up this rubbish and lead the country. Take some of your “ooh look at all this money we didn’t know we had” and spend it wisely. The Students don’t need it, they have more resource to earn than we ever did, the money being handed out willy nilly to education flop funds is beyond rediculous.
Cancel all of this and you will have enough to improve Health and to improve the Capital’s road infrastructure. Put Wellington back on the map as the Capital of a great country.
Go figure Helen, LEAD THIS COUNTRY FORWARD. Stop the landslide. Be a LEADER.
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October 6, 2005 3:52pm
baxter

I can’t dis-agree with a single word so far written. I would just add that the crazy decision a decade or so ago by Goverment to site the new Wellington Hospital at Newtown instead of Kenepuru was probably made on the basis that Transmission Gully would go ahead. Instead one poor illogical decision has been compounded by another. As for planning to get to the airport on time to catch a plane…leave the night before.
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October 6, 2005 5:05pm
Betty

Wellington and Hutt Valley folk have to have a second route out of the city. What if theres a tragedy where lives are endangered. I’m one of these people it could affect, along with family members. Why is it that this lot in Parliament had’nt even mentioned plans etc. for the future in their election bribes. Get real Helen Clark and instead of throwing millions of dollars to failures, think of the people that elected you back, even though I was’nt one of them. Next time you wont get back. Betty
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October 6, 2005 5:23pm
Lucyna

I heard recently that supermarkets now do not carry extra stock anymore. The nearest food storage location for Wellington is Palmerston North. IF there is a major blockage of the main route into Wellington for any extented period of time, Wellington might be looking at food shortages.
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October 6, 2005 6:32pm
ZenTiger

Rather than frame this as a National infrastructure issue – a major highway Wellington to Auckland, plus an improved high speed rail link Wellington – Palmerston – Wanganui – Hamilton – Auckland, its couched in ratepayer terms. Which ratepayers should pay for national infrastructure?

The same reasons for building super-efficient connections between Wellington and Auckland apply to connecting up Tauranga, Rotorua, Taupo, Napier, New Plymouth, etc.

As Darren noted somewhere – if the UK can provide living space for 60 million or so, we can think ahead to infrastructure to host 8-12 million or so over the long term. Politicians, think of the extra tax revenue.
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October 6, 2005 6:43pm
Libertyscott

As someone who knows well a good number of the key people involved in this, and has actually read thoroughly the consultants’ reports – it is about time that people got their heads out of their arses and stopped following this cargo cult called Transmission Gully.

Transmission Gully has a benefit/cost ratio well below 1, close to 0.5. Now roads are not funded on this basis anymore, but they ARE funded to at least be efficient – which means the benefits over the long term must at least be as high as the costs – Transmission Gully fails miserably on these counts. Why?

1. The safety benefits are very low. While it removes around 40% of the traffic from the current highway, people will continue to be killed on it because it isn’t that safe. A median barrier along the full length of the Pukerua Bay-Paekakariki section will fix that, along with a flyover at Paekakariki and a few other intersection fixes – the total cost of THAT work is less than $100 million.

2. The congestion issues are mainly at Mana – nowhere else, and the work currently underway there will ease that considerably for some years. Money is also being spent on upgrading the rail service considerably in the next few years – around $200 million. That will mean a 15 minute frequency service to a new large park and ride facility north of Paraparaumu, with a number of other new park and rides (e.g. Raumati). Mana can be fixed in ten years time (once the current upgrade has reached capacity) for around $250 million.

3. The coastal route would only get funding if it got consented – and it does cost $250-$300 million less – building a road to a standard of service as good as Transmission gully (which is the same length and has hills the steepness of Ngauranga Gorge but 3x as long, on both sides). That $250-$300 million can be spent on other roads. Simple opportunity cost – Why spend more on something that gives you the same.

4. Nobody is willing to actually pay for the additional cost of Transmission Gully. Road users wouldn’t pay a toll of $10-$15 for the difference, so they are out. Ratepayers who benefit from removing traffic from their communities (including the moaners in Mana and Plimmerton and Paekakariki) wont put their anticipated increased property values where their mouths are, so why the hell should the average taxpayer do it?

5. The idea that you must pay for Transmission Gully bugger the cost – which the DomPost rejected – because of “security of access” is a nonsense. 4-laning the current route would almost certainly ensure that it remains open in the event of an accident (main reason for closure) and slip, and the Hutt Valley has only one access to Wellington, the Wairarapa has only one access. NZ is not rich enough to pay for duplicate routes all over. Paekakariki Hill Road provides an alternative for light traffic as does Akatarawa Road.

Nobody who wants Transmission Gully over the coastal road upgrade wants to spend their money on it – simple as that.
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October 6, 2005 9:17pm
Lucyna

Libertyscott, have you ever actually driven on that road during rush hour? Or had to go over the hill road at night time because there’s been a crash and you’ve been diverted?
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October 6, 2005 10:16pm
Libertyscott

Lucyna yes I have, but I still didn’t want to pay $15-$20 for every time I used an alternative route, which is what the toll would have to be to make up the difference (except so few would use it). I also wouldn’t pay more rates just because people choose to live in Kapiti but commute by car into Wellington.

Would you pay a toll of $15-$20?

The worst congestion is at Paremata and Mackays Crossing, both of which will be eased by the work currently underway, and crashes along the coast will be largely eliminated by putting in a median barrier.

This is $360 million we are talking about – where is that coming from?
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October 7, 2005 12:50am
Logix

LibertyScott,

Thanks for the concise summing up. I had long suspected the facts you have outlined…I appreciate someone informed laying them out in detail.
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October 7, 2005 7:23am
culma

Libertyscott- well put, “BUT’ the issues you have outlined deal with NOW,how far forward do the upgrades extend 1 year,5 years, like most INFRASTUCTURAL PROBLEMS in this country we spend 1.5 billion getting to the start line, only to find there’s not enough money to finish the race.
This is not just a Wellington issue, you can polarise it if you want Libery, but this is THE MAIN TRUNK LINE, every product produced in the south, goes through the listed black spots, as a company that does have continuing problems getting product to my major market “AUCKLAND”, it has identified its self as one of the continual reasons for missed deadlines and late delivery.
SOLUTION – PUBLICLY LISTED COMPANY, FLOAT The IDEA, at the end of the day hidden agenda’s aside, bypass the Politician’s, Mayor’s of each of the cities, very easy to survey your constituents, get DPF or Mr Morgan (trade me) to donate a portion of their sites to run said survey.
Libertyscott one point you missed from the figures in your posting, What are the values of the dead, or they never mattered, Anyone that has had a Family member killed between Porirua and Kapity, TOUGH SHIT, get over it, is what you have been told.
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October 7, 2005 8:22am
ZenTiger

LibertyScott, I’d be interested in the source of your $10-$15 toll fee assumptions. One document I read made the assumption people would not use the road if there was a toll, and reduced the traffic on it accordingly. My experience of tolled roads in Australia is that is likely wrong.
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October 7, 2005 5:53pm
Libertyscott

Culma

I don’t disagree that if a company wants to build Transmission Gully and toll it that it should be allowed to do so. The problem is that much research has been done by Transit, Land Transport NZ and the Wellington Regional Council that shows that – at best – a toll could pay for 10% of the cost of Transmission Gully over 35 years unless you want to start making the current road virtually unusable (50 km/h speed limit which delays everyone going from Kapiti to Porirua) -or tolling the current route heavily – funnily enough if you did that the demand would be so suppressed you wouldn’t need EITHER option for around 10-15 years anyway.

The values of the dead matter there, just as they do in the Waikato, Northland and Manawatu where other people die because there is insufficient funding to fix all of the substandard roads that exist – that is why Land Transport NZ exists – to ration funding so with the available dollars you save the most lives. The head on collisions between Pukerua Bay and Paekakariki can be stopped for around $15 million – and I read today that Transit is going to apply for funding to construct this project.

Transmission Gully would only make things safer by reducing the traffic flow, but head on collisions would still exist.
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October 7, 2005 9:11pm
Libertyscott

Zentiger

The problem with Transmission Gully as a toll road is that, outside peak hours, it would be mostly empty.

Trucks, except those heading for the Hutt Valley, will avoid it because it is no shorter and much much steeper than the current route, so it will cost them more in diesel and travel time, with no road user charges savings.

Outside peak times, Transmission Gully will save a private motorist 5-10 minutes because the only difference is avoiding the 50 km/h zones in Mana and Pukerua Bay- most people wont pay much for that sort of saving. On top of that, when you remove those who would use Transmission Gully, you make the current route a lot less congested, making the Gully less attractive.

By contrast the Aussie toll roads are almost always brand new high quality expressway routes that make the old city street intersection laden routes look like a joke – so the toll roads are an enormous improvement in service. The Aussie toll roads per km are generally far cheaper to build because of the seismic/ground conditions, and carry far more traffic than most roads in New Zealand.
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October 7, 2005 9:23pm
culma

Libertyscott, so what about the increase in population in the lower North Island, simple fact we are talking about SH1, I don’t care about Transmission gully as a route, the major point here is that the road where ever it goes from Plimmerton to Otaki, needs to clear the Residential boundaries of those outlaying suburbs. It also needs to be 4 lanes wide, not 2 lanes with a wire barrier between, govt is advocating a band aid type fix.
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October 10, 2005 9:14am
Libertyscott

Culma

Completely agree. However, it has to be staged, and the long term goal is to designate land for 4-lanes to north of Waikanae – but the immediate priority is to fix the safety problems on the current road, and start seeking routes for the bypasses at Mana/Plimmerton and Pukerua Bay. Ideally the coast should be 4-laned and have a barrier installed at the same time – but the RMA would make that tortuously slow!
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October 10, 2005 10:25pm
culma

Liberty – as a person that has lost 3 family members to that section of state highway 1, I am passionate about it’s upgrade to make sure their deaths and their lives were worth something.
The loss of 3 children under 6 years old in 1 accident to a drunk driver (not oncoming traffic both cars were south bound)decimated the family, and they never recovered. How do you think it would feel to go out to in the morning with 4 children and by sunset only have 1 still alive. Blame the RMA if you want but it is only a tool, there has been no investment in Infrastructure . Every government has side stepped this issue and the others you pointed out above, electing to pour money into areas where it can’t be traced. According to Fitsimmons of the greens things get passed very quickly through the RMA if they are worth while, BULLSHIT.
As I said at the start of this piece this country will spend 1.5 billion getting everybody’s agreement on the project and not have enough money to start it.
Last Question why does it cost 10 times more in NZ per km of road than it does in Australia?
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October 11, 2005 9:51am
ZenTiger

Liberty Scott: “However, it has to be staged, and the long term goal is to designate land for 4-lanes to north of Waikanae”

All I have heard for the last 30 years is about long term goals, studies, consultancy etc. I don’t believe it for a moment. It would seem to be more empty promises, with “just wait”

(Not that I’m blaming you for that – I just have a growing belief/credibility on anything being said by people involved in roading projects)

If Transmission Gully is so patently un-do-able, I’d like to know how much money we have wasted in consultancies over the last 30 years discussing the undiscussable.

If the grade is too steep, what’s involved in making it less steep, or tunnelled? How on earth did we manage to build a train tunnel through to the Wairarapa all those years ago? It would seem technically impossible with today’s consultants.

There could have been a long term vision to have major highways connecting the major centres years ago, supported by high speed rail options.

Ultimately, we need a decent highway out of Wellington. I am stunned it’s all too hard, or always been too hard and so there have been thirty years of talking about nothing, at great financial cost and wasted lives. The coastal highway, at least the centennial highway part could have been widened and a median barrier years ago whilst apparently totally pointless discussions continued with Transmission “we have long term goals and visions, just trust us, oops 30 years later we can’t actually do it”

Yes, you may be right, and all the wasted time and effort may not be any-one particular persons fault. But after 30 years, with no real solutions on the table, and the myths and misinformation still out there, it shows an organisation hasn’t been doing its job for a long time.

It needs to be fixed.

And if cost/estimates of city to city infrastructure come down to rate payers (just another tax, pushing the top marginal rate towards 60% after GST) then the rate payers of Auckland better divide the 2 billion (bet it grows to 4 billion) dollars to work out the cost of the Greens underground rail project. Only $15 a ride you say? Cheap at twice the price.

/rant mode off
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October 11, 2005 10:16am
culma

Zen- another angle was put on the whole North bound highway out of Wellington by a close acquaintance in Wellington. The statement was that the road would not be opened up into a main Highway north until the land made available for landfill around the Cannons creek area had been compacted and subdivided, to be honest the way it was explained to me made sense. Open up the road into a highway and the land in that area while not being worthless is definitely less attractive.That was the trade off made by the WDC quite some time ago. It would be interesting to know if that is common knowledge.
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October 11, 2005 10:58am
Lance

Oh Derryn.
Such blind hatred of Auckland where you keep up the tradition of not letting the facts get in the road of a good bit of biggotry.
Auckland has been obscenly underfunded in roading infrastructure for decades. And shock horror to fix the problem a surcharge is introduced where Auckland gets a whole (hold breath at the evilness of it all) a third.. yes a third.. I will say it again… a third.
Well bugger me… doesn’t Aucland have a third of NZ’s population?
But hell… I’m sure you will keep the hatred going. I give you something to help you… Wellington is not important anymore… even Christchurch is bigger than you now.

Lance
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October 11, 2005 1:08pm
culma

Lance – about 30% of the population live above the Bbay hills, I would be quite happy for Auckland to take it’s proportional share of the tax take to do with as it pleased, I don’t think the rest of the country would be adverse to having to operate off the rest as it would be a bloody site more than is allocated at present.
The funniest thing in your entry that Wellington doesnt matter as Christchurch is bigger, Must be a size thing as no one else in the country gives a shit about size, Oh except Aucklanders that is.
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October 11, 2005 2:52pm
Derryn

Thanks for your comments Lance.
My Dorkland comment was meant in jest, I apologise to you as it appears you have taken this very personally, as I don’t know you I assure you this was not directed at you.
I did work in Auckland for several months and can prove this because I had to buy my first water proof rain coat!! (This is a joke Lance).
My comments above were written to bring attention to the plight of our nations Capital, this is affecting Wellington dramatically as you pointed out Canterbury has outgrown us, ASK YOURSELF WHY?? Answer, business’s are not setting up here and others are relocating for various reasons, one major reason being accessibility. I work in the transport industry and our non-productive time has risen by 20% in past four years due to increased traffic, endless and seemingly useless roadworks with little results in easing traffic congestion, this is hard to swallow when in the last six months our fuel costs have risen over 19%, with drivers sitting in traffic jams, for sometimes hours on end on a daily basis, you have to ask yourself: Is it worth it??? Proof is that it is not worth it as businesses are closing, relocating or just not setting up here. Of course you will point out other possible reasons and will be right, BUT the effect on Wellington is dissasterous in human lives being lost on this stretch of road, on local and national business, on employment etc etc. This government as with others is doing nothing, at least in Auckland you have a plan and money being allocated toward roading, we have a plan that has been investigated, been reviewed, been sidelined, re-investigated and shelved. And still people die. FYI, I am not a Wellingtonian, lived here for a few years and am moving North next month. I just care about the people who have has their lives taken and their families who suffer without answers, having lost family myself on this stretch of road I believe I have a right to speak up, and if it takes for me to be called a biggot to raise the issue, then I AM A BIGGOT and proud of it. As for blind Hadred a bit strong but if it makes you feel good to get personal then Bravo.
Asta La Vista Baby
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October 11, 2005 3:21pm
Lance

To Derryn and culma…
There is nothing like a good spleen venting to make sure some stereotypes are not continuously amplified into folklore.
FYI I lived for 8 years in the Plimmerton area so I am quite aware of the problems. The lethal nature of the road I accept is a problem, had a few near misses there myself. But the traffic jams are minor compared to Auckland, sorry but its true. I guess the rest of the country think we are we making it up because nobody would really spend 3 hours a day in traffic congestion on a normal working day, would they?
My real view is most of the larger urban centres have been grossly mismanaged for decades by our half arsed politicians. (Warning more controversy coming) with way too much money being spent on immaculate roads in out of the way places and ‘cultural’ initiatives.
Oh.. and just incase I am accused of being a townie who doesn’t know anything.. I spent my first 18 years in rural Southland.

Lance… Ive been everywhere man.
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October 11, 2005 8:01pm
Lance

To Derryn and culma…
There is nothing like a good spleen venting to make sure some stereotypes are not continuously amplified into folklore.
FYI I lived for 8 years in the Plimmerton area so I am quite aware of the problems. The lethal nature of the road I accept is a problem, had a few near misses there myself. But the traffic jams are minor compared to Auckland, sorry but its true. I guess the rest of the country think we are we making it up because nobody would really spend 3 hours a day in traffic congestion on a normal working day, would they?
My real view is most of the larger urban centres have been grossly mismanaged for decades by our half arsed politicians. (Warning more controversy coming) with way too much money being spent on immaculate roads in out of the way places and ‘cultural’ initiatives.
Oh.. and just incase I am accused of being a townie who doesn’t know anything.. I spent my first 18 years in rural Southland.

Lance… Ive been everywhere man.
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October 11, 2005 8:04pm
Libertyscott

Oh Transmission Gully – a perfect example of why consultation, politicians and bureaucracy are the worst possible way to plan and fund infrastructure. Air NZ used to run according to the wishes of Ministers, so did the Post Office when it ran the phones, and it cost a fortune to call overseas, and new businesses had to wait weeks for new phone lines in downtown Auckland.

The origins of Transmission Gully in recent times come from one of the most useless bureaucracies around – the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who railed against the proposed upgrade of the coastal route in the early 90s. This resulted in a quick and dirty investigation into the relative costs of both options, which indicated the coastal option was more expensive – but that both were well above the threshold for funding at the time. After a few years of argument, when the locals were listened to and opposed every fundable upgrade of the highway – including a Mana bypass, a Pukerua Bay bypass, Transit decided to designate Transmission Gully as the long term option. This foolish decision has cost many many years – when, in hindsight, it should have done a detailed geotechnical investigation of both options which would properly informed the organisation as to costs.

Anyway, now we know the Gully is an unaffordable pipe dream – except the Plimmerton/Mana locals who want their property values increased.

Culma – I understand your concern about the safety of the highway, and I hope Transit’s decision to push the median barrier forward (which will include some lane widening and hopefully shoulders for the highway) will fix this. Admittedly, until around 2000/2001 this stretch of highway had a very good safety record, with accidents/fatalities well below the national average – so it didn’t qualify for work – plus the technology for median barriers on 2-lane stretches of highway had only recently been trialled in Sweden. Again there are plenty of more dangerous stretches of highway in the country – mostly in Waikato- that kill more people and can be fixed for less cost. However they are not a priority for this government.

There is record spending on roads in NZ now – Labour has poured bucketloads into it, for the whole country. Wellington has four major roading projects underway at the moment (Inner City Bypass, Mackays crossing overbridge, Kaitoke hill realignment and Mana/Plimmerton upgrade), typically in the past there was only one at a time.

The reason that roads cost more in NZ compared to Australia is because:

1. Seismic conditions in NZ that do not exist in Australia. This especially increases the cost of bridges, tunnels and retaining walls.

2. Topography and grounds. More hills, rivers and harder ground for cuttings and tunnels.

3. Weather. Conditions that are largely sunny are cheaper to build in than those with more rain. Rainy days are unusable for most parts of road building, which means there is equipment and labour that can’t be properly utilised.

Most Australian road building involves traffic volumes well above the New Zealand equivalents. State Highway 1 north of Wellington barely carries enough traffic between Kapiti and Porirua to justify 4-laning, because MOST of the time it is uncongested.
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October 12, 2005 12:12am
ROZZA

WHAT I THINK SHOULD HAPPEN IS SIMPLE.THEY SHOULD MAKE ONE GOVT FOR AUCKLAND AND ONE FOR THE REST.JAVAS ARE SO BLOODY FULL ON THEM SELFS.Y PUT A 4 LANE HIGHWAY SOUTH OF BOMBAY PAST MERCER WHEN THE HOLE GOD GOD GOD DAM HIGHWAY FROM MANA TO NORTH KAPITI CLOGS UP BLOODY ALL THE TIME.DOES STATE HIGHWAY 1 SOUTH OF BOMBAY DO THAT?
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October 24, 2005 1:21pm
pukerua

Now the Mana four laning is done and the traffic is flowing beautifully (yes I drive it every day), perhaps people will stop whining about how the Coastal route won’t work and pull their heads out of their spoilt parochial arses long enough to see the rest of the country has no intention of funding the convenience of people who made a lifestyle decision to live on the other side of extreme roading geology. Libertyscott is one of the few people talking in an informed and rational manner about this issue and I thank him for it. Most other discussion reminds me of selfish brats screaming because Mummy won’t buy them a playstation.
Sooner of later the governement will get sick of this crap and just do it, but not before more years of futile bickering until the problem has become critical.
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November 10, 2005 10:54am

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