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December 12, 2005 9:04am by David Farrar

Race Riots on Sydney Beaches

Tim Blair has a roundup of the coverage. Up to 5,000 people were involved!

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Comments (178)

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jnzed

Interesting article:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/12/11/1134235944844.html
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December 13, 2005 5:52am
Lance

The Prophet

I bow to your intellectual superiority. You are obviously so smart and much cleverer than me is.
“Not a Dutch South African by any chance?.”
No.. nor of Dutch decent.
And your ‘genuine question’ is asked why? Hypocrite!

As for me not stating my views. I thought that was obvious but just for you.. here goes.
The rioting in wrong, the racism is wrong, the violence is wrong.
What I want to know is the real reason behind this outburst and was it because of reverse racism.
I get annoyed at people who put others down on blogs using nothing but name calling and slogans. I prefer logic.. hell they might even learn something by listening to others points of view.. doesn’t mean to have to like it or agree with it.
The other thing I see repeated over and over are those from the left (for want of a better term) claiming intellectual superiority over those on the labelled right.
This is pathetic and egocentric and just cries out for mockery.

You said “Lance = TROLL”
Class act mate.. class act. Deep logic.. keep it up and the world will be a better place.
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December 13, 2005 8:32am
Anti Hippy

Atmore Law was a firm I used when buying a house a year or so ago, the URL was as good as any to use Stephen, so do what you like
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December 13, 2005 8:33am
rightsaidsteve

Back in the seventies and eighties when the idiotic notion of PC was just taking hold, it was a standard comedy sketch of the likes of the two ronnies,not the nine o’clock news etc etc to have a parody of a news broad cast, were the joke was that the news reader had to convolute his way through a news item without mentioning a particular word or phrase.
Watching the Tv 3 news last night on the riots in Sydney was like a jolly old nostalgia trip as the news readers collapsed into a fit of comedic self parody, what a joke, what a pathetic joke
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December 13, 2005 8:34am
mikeybill

I’m just waiting for some part of the white mob to attack Lesbians, and to hear of reprisals against Austrians living in Lebanon.
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December 13, 2005 8:49am
Ben Wilson

An observation today: In all the various articles on the ongoing violence across the water, I noticed about 50 times the politicians decrying it as ‘unaustralian’ or ‘not the australian way’. I have to wonder why not just say it’s ‘wrong’. It’s kind of like the basic ideas of right and wrong have got lost in patriotic ideals. Who cares if it’s unaustralian? So is being a New Zealander, but that doesn’t mean we don’t know right and wrong.

Stopping this senseless violence is not about getting people to conform to the australian way, it’s about protecting innocent people’s lives, property, and freedoms. Whether they’re as ozzie as Kath and Kim or as vietnamese as Ho Chi Mihn, it makes no difference at all. At least, it shouldn’t.
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December 13, 2005 8:51am
Ben Wilson

Nice one mikeybill. I’m waiting for the Lesbian mob to be reported as unaustrayan too.
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December 13, 2005 9:12am
Logix

the URL was as good as any to use Stephen, so do what you like Bullshit.

Stopping this senseless violence is not about getting people to conform to the australian way, it’s about protecting innocent people’s lives, property, and freedoms

Clearly there are many factors coming into play here. The Lebanese Muslim community has brought much of this upon themselves, but compounding this I would strongly suggest that underlying these events has been a long standing failure of the NSW police to address the flourishing crimminal subculture in these immigrant groups.

The PC crap the media is serving up will of course only be adding fuel to the white backlash as well. It must be very galling to listen to your own media telling you that all the violence is being perpetrated by “white racist thugs”, all the while any mention of the violence from the Lebanese is being sanitised out.

The onus here lies on the police to stand up to both sides and clearly spell out that this kind of crimminal thuggery is NOT acceptable in any form. Once that line has been drawn and enforced, only then should the PC brigade move in and address the issues.
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December 13, 2005 9:34am
err..

Anti Hippy, just a thought. If you’re going to roam around the web congratulating white trash skinheads for beating up people on the basis of their ethnicity, maybe typing in the URL of a law firm as your own might just be asking for trouble, no..? I can’t think of anybody more likely to sue…
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December 13, 2005 9:36am
Mark

“In Bay Street, Brighton-le-Sands, a young woman was sitting in a car when men approached and opened the door to her vehicle and put a hand up her dress, saying: “We are going to rape you, you Aussie sluts.” http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/armed-gangs-on-rampage/2005/12/12/1134236005902.html
Still convinced these wonderful Lebanese gangs are the are poor wittle victims?
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December 13, 2005 9:37am
sock thief

I wouldn’t say that race was an “institution”, it’s more of an in-built category which is all too easily used as the basis for in-group, out-group determinations.

And that inherent psychological process gives the lie to the idea that multi-culturalism should not be attempted. I remember an Italian telling me how much the South hated the North. How much Rome hated Milan. How much one suburb of Milan hated another. How much one street in one suburb hated another street. People, especially young men, are all to capable of forming hosile in-group/out-group alliances on anything distingiusing. Race is but one way and people are endlessly inventive. But the peoblem is not multiculturalism, its the alliance forming – gangs – tendency.

When it all goes well we get the All Blacks or Manchester United.
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December 13, 2005 9:42am
err..

Mark, you dickhead. Nobody here has claimed the lebanese *gangs* are the victims. They’re just claiming that NOT ALL LEBANESE PEOPLE ARE IN GANGS, and that RANDOMLY BEATING LEBANESE PEOPLE IS NO BETTER THAN THEM RANDOMLY ATTACKING WHITE PEOPLE.

You see? Simple? Or is that kind of complexity beyond your little walnut of a brain?
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December 13, 2005 9:50am
Bubbles

What is the deal with that URL box anyway? What are you supposed to put? I was n’t sure so I just put the Kiwiblog web address for my link.

I can’t believe Anit-hippy would be dumb enough to put his or her own employer in though, lol.
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December 13, 2005 10:34am
Mark

I wasn’t writing to you err, you are clearly unhinged and a danger to society. And take your caps lock off.
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December 13, 2005 11:08am
james

Does it matter who you were writing to? It’s right there for everyone to see…
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December 13, 2005 11:34am
TheProphet

Lance –

‘The rioting in wrong, the racism is wrong, the violence is wrong’

Couldn’t agree with you more.

My question was a genuine one and wether you think so or not I care not a whit.

Alot of people posting comments on sites such as Voice of Dissent,Stormfront etc SEEM to have Dutch sounding surnames hence my question.I was not implying that Dutch people are racists.I was not implying that Dutch people are from SA. That is whats going on in your head Lance.

Reverse racism – Please explain exactly what reverse racism is.

Also IF you are labelling me a leftist you could not be further off the mark.As a simple search thru my comments on this site will confirm.

Now we come to this little gem –

‘I get annoyed at people who put others down on blogs using nothing but name calling and slogans. I prefer logic’

Hmmmm Really Lance, OK, here’s is a selection of YOUR comments on this thread –

‘What a crock of shit!’
‘Mindless lefty babble.’
‘Fuck what a dickhead.’
‘You are way more ‘shallow’ than those you are heaping scorn upon.’

and of course the true diamond in this little lot
‘Hypocrite!’

I stand corrected under your towering mountain of ‘Logic’ Lance, I really do.

‘Class act mate.. class act. Deep logic.. keep it up and the world will be a better place.’
Ditto, Lance, big ditto on that one.

Allah protect us.
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December 13, 2005 11:56am
Bubbles

It is because of polls like these that I distrust statistical studies:

http://smh.com.au/polls/national/form.html

Not very leading ay.

BTW here is a link to a very interesting article about the problems of muslim integration. It is fairly balanced, as the author is very critical of the current state of western society.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html
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December 13, 2005 11:57am
Lance

The Profit
Yawn..
This private conversation is getting tedious so this is my last comment.
I believe those comments I made were in context of an argument, some a tad heated granted, others fair comment. You are scraping the old barrel I suggest to you.
If you bothered to read the text that is.
I also said put downs without logic were the problem. Nothing like having to repeat oneself.

Feel free to rant on. I will not reply to any more.
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December 13, 2005 12:38pm
sock thief

An interesting development – http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gang-peace-deal-appeal/2005/12/13/1134236033030.html

“Lebanese Muslim leader Keysar Trad and Maroubra’s surfer gang, the Bra Boys, are attempting to broker a peace deal between rival groups following race riots in Sydney.”

And even more surprisingly – “Mr Trad said the Bra Boys were one of the most multicultural groups of surfers in Australia and showed people from all backgrounds could enjoy the beach.

“They (the Bra Boys) expressed their outrage at what happened at Cronulla and they expressed their support and appreciation for the Middle Eastern community,” Mr Trad said.
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December 13, 2005 12:43pm
fatcoon2000

Anti-Hippy, you are seriously off the planet. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Better the devil you know.
I have a head like a concrete block.
In my days in the Navy Seals, we were taught how to rip our enemies’ throats out.
‘What we need is a great big melting pot’
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December 13, 2005 1:37pm
Bubbles

All this debate is basically pointless. This link contains the only rational analysis of the whole debacle I have yet seen. Required viewing (requires sound):

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/paris-hilton-face-p1.php
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December 13, 2005 2:23pm
TheProphet

So Lance retreats in true phule style.Thats with a ‘yawn’ ‘I can’t be bothered anymore.I’m way to busy for this tedious shit,blah,blah,blah.’

Just one more Lance PLEASE.

Your definition of ‘reverse racism’

Fill me in on what exactly ‘reverse racism’ is.
By that of course I mean the ‘logic’ behind the name.

Please Lancey wancey don’t go away mad.

Allah protect us.
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December 13, 2005 3:19pm
TheProfit

By the By Lance,being the first person ever in the entire history of me commenting on this site to get the name ‘theprophet’ you win a prize.

Your prize – you get to buy Sir David anything you want off his wishlist.

Congratulations.

John Key protect us
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December 13, 2005 3:27pm
fatcoon2000

Bubbles, you are wrong about Muslim integration. My tree-hugging wife and myself have many muslim friends. I urge them to STAND STRONG! in this era of provocation.
All we need is love
Islam is the religion of peace
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December 13, 2005 4:59pm
David Farrar

Anti-Hippy’s comments have had the URl of a law firm entered into the URL line, which automatically links from his comments.

The senior partner of the law firm concerned has just spoken to me, and asked me to inform readers that the firm in question does not endorse the comments made, and is investigating whether they were actually made by anyone connected with the firm.

I note that Anti Hippy in a later post has said “[it] was a firm I used when buying a house a year or so ago, the URL was as good as any to use”

I would remind everyone that the URL field is not mandatory to fill in (unlike name and email) and you should be careful about including URLs which are not your own.
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December 13, 2005 5:15pm
B.J. Melville

I lived on Australian beaches for about 6 years and I can tell you it had nothing to do with race until the police went in with battens and got their media people to concoct some justification for it. It had nothing so with race and everything to do with dickhead homeboys from the western suburbs getting out of their depth on an eastern suburbs beach.

I’ve seen similar things happen on the Gold Coast in the late 90’s. In one particular incident that I witnessed, a young surfer was bashed unconscious and robbed by a gang of homeboy types (it matters not that they were pacific islanders).

Within minutes of the attack, a couple of hundred surfers had gathered in the park where it occured and began scouring the streets armed with cricket bats etc and chased away anyone wearing American style gang regalia or listening to rap music.

I think sock theif had a valuable point before; Remove the distinction and the hate will probably go with it. Prodding both sides off the streets at batton point will only suppress the situation. The obvious way the police could restore public order is to target all the homeboy gangstas, regardless of ethnicity, and let the aussie yobs get back to their surfing and bbqing. Quite simple.
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December 14, 2005 9:42am
Ben Wilson

BJ, you started out well, I thought you might almost have a point, but you ended poorly. You say that they should ‘remove the distinction and the hate will probably go with it’. Can you clarify what you mean?

Targetting homeboy gangstas is every bit as stupid as targetting yobs, and prodding both sides off the streets at batton point does the very useful job of suppressing the situation. I’d like to see it remain suppressed, rather than ending up in some crazy West Side Story standoff where people will definitely get killed, and the situation will only escalate. Homeboyz get more than enough beats at the hands of the ozzie cops, and it’s done nothing to prevent this series of incidents.

My own little racial violence story in ozzie has a different spin to yours. I witnessed from a distance of about 10 feet a bunch of about 5 ozzie gangster kids (in the style of ‘Two Hands’) chase down an asian guy, trip him over, and punch him in the face real hard as he was getting up. He pulled a knife on them and had a swing at the puncher. The rest surrounded him and he backed into a nearby shop. The cops were there in about 45 seconds, as about 20 other passers by had used their cellphones to call it in. They arrested the asian and took him away in handcuffs. I approached the police to give witness, but they seemed completely disinterested, saying they knew what it was all about – a drug deal gone wrong. The fact that one of the guys had assaulted the asian right in front of me didn’t impress them at all, and the guy eventually wandered off without charges.

It didn’t give me any good feelings about the Melbourne or it’s police force, or race relations, I can tell you. I was never called upon to give evidence, despite being the closest witness, and stating quite clearly that I wasn’t afraid to give evidence. Sure, carrying and using a concealed weapon is a serious crime, but so is team assault. The asian guy was running away when first I saw him. The way he was being set upon I’d say almost made his actions self defence, and I was getting ready to jump right in and try to stop it, until he pulled the knife. But my testimony was obviously considered utterly irrelevant.
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December 14, 2005 10:57am
dim

I’m curious to see the white pride posters around Wellington today – if anyone who got a picture could send it to me, or post it online someplace that would be great.

Cheers,

dim
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December 15, 2005 7:31am
TheProphet

Keep an eye on the news Sat nite/Sunday folks.

She’s on.With the bad boys THIS time.

Allah protect us.
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December 15, 2005 8:51am
nigel

Prophet,
Like you are going to see a balanced report coming out of TV news here. So far the reports have been so biased and that just about all they have reported is that a bunch of neo-nazi boover boys just decided to go on a leb bashing rampage. All this is, is a bunch of thugs on both sides both lebanese and white having a little turf war. This is not a race war, this is a gang war.
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December 15, 2005 9:43am
rotifer

Interesting that the Bra Boys and the Comancheros(sp?)have both come out with statements deploring the violence of the past week.

All that police presence must be interfering with cash flow.
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December 15, 2005 10:39am
TheProphet

Nigel – Thats quite true. However if the people over there that I am in contact with are correct there is going to be very serious bloodshed on Sat night.The MSM can spin it any way they want but dead people make good stories.
Rotifers comment above is a good hint as to what sort of players are starting to become involved in this thing.
Maybe a gang war up to now but come Sunday things may never be the same.

Allah protect us
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December 15, 2005 10:58am
Ben Wilson

TheProphet, you’re bordering on the inciteful with that post. Makes me understand the use of the pseudonym better.

Don’t do anything stupid. I implore you. Allah will not protect you. If he exists, He will look with scorn at stupidity and your virgin in paradise quotient will suffer.
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December 15, 2005 12:36pm
B.J. Melville

Yeah, it’s on for this weekend at the gold coast. I’ve heard people from the coolie, seedy and palmie crews, as well as the burley boys will be patrolling the streets of surfers paradise looking for any trouble from the homeboyz. Schoolies festival is kicking off this weekend and if it is anything like the previous 10 years, there will be leb homeboys bashing people in the crowd. Only this year they will provoke a reaction.
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December 15, 2005 2:15pm
Ben Wilson

Charming. Are you pitching in, BJ?
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December 15, 2005 2:23pm
B.J. Melville

Absolutely! Go Surfies!
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December 15, 2005 2:47pm
Ben Wilson

At least you’re honest. An honest idiot, and if you get bashed by a copper I won’t be shedding any more tears for you than I do for Tookie.
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December 15, 2005 4:23pm
B.J. Melville

*update* pictures of the Cronulla “riot”

Here are some pictures of “popular protests” and “peace rallies” to compare them with:
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December 15, 2005 7:36pm
B.J. Melville

Oh, come on DPF, let me post those URLs.
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December 15, 2005 7:40pm
B.J. Melville

anyway, they’re on flickr, under the tag cronulla.
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December 15, 2005 8:03pm
TheProphet

Ben – What the fuck are you harping on about.I am not instigating or stimulating anything. MY CONTACTS IN AUSSIE TOLD ME THERE IS GOING TO BE TROUBLE ON SAT/SUN.BAD TROUBLE.

Thats it – End of story.

Get away from your computer a little more. Theres a real world out there. I think you said you have little ones on the way.Get their pushchair and take it for practice walks down to the park.Take your wife to the park and give her a foot massage.(preggers girls love it)please, anything to give your brain a rest from some of the misinterpretations you seem to make.

72 virgins was always going to be to many for me anyway.

Allah protect us.
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December 15, 2005 8:40pm
Vaughan Wylie

The Latest Sydney Riots

Latest Riots in Cronulla Sydney Seem To Have Calmed A Little, Or Have They?…
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December 15, 2005 8:48pm
Ben Wilson

TheProphet

I stand by my comment you’re bordering on incitefulness. You’re handing on your version of when the next big bash will be and with who. And you sound like you’re licking your chops. Have you passed on the name of your ‘contact’ to the cops so they’ll know who to ask so they can stop this event which you don’t seem to think you are inciting? This ‘very serious bloodshed’ that you’re trying to tell everyone about on a public forum but distance yourself from simultaneously?

That’s why I also make my anonymity comment – you’re also scared anyone will know who you are, for very good reason – the boys in blue will be quite interested if what you say is true. If you have a conscience, you will try to stop it.

It’s you who needs to get out, mate. Have a long walk and think about your life and where it’s all going. Do you really want it to be a small box, either concrete or wooden? I’ll stick to living my life, looking after my wife, and not bashing people I don’t know for no good reason, thanks.
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December 15, 2005 10:02pm
Ben Wilson

Oh, and I agree, that’s way too many virgins. Then again, it’s meant to be eternity, so I guess you could get bored. That’s always been one of my problems with the idea of paradise.
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December 15, 2005 10:31pm
TheProphet

Hmmm OK Ben, Whatever.

I have not said ‘with who’ cause I don’t know.

If I rang the Police and said ‘XXX told me that someone on the East Coast of Australia is going to get hurt on Sat nite but I don’t know who or where’ What do you think they would say Ben?.

//rant//
As for licking my chops – As RB would say *sigh*
For many years I was involved in violence as a way of life.In fact I spent years of days and nights teaching woman(mostly) how to defend themselves from lowlifes on the streets. To be honest I used to scare myself with the damage I could do(and occasionaly did) if I felt like it.So I am somewhat inured to violence.I also know enough about my fellow man to know that violence is part of us.Like war it can never be eradicated.Its what we do.It IS the human condition.To think that you can change several hundred thousand years of human conditioning in 50(?) years is stupid.Like it or hate it violence is part of us.THAT is what I taught my students – be prepared,don’t wait,take control.
//end rant//

What I am inadequately trying to get across above is that I have seen enough violence to dislike its essence and therefore not crave it.Again it your interpretation Ben.

I am anonymous because I choose to be.(How do I know who you are or that you’re even a real person.I don’t care enough for you to answer that by the way.)Calling me scared is playground stuff Ben.You know very little about me.

You seem to imply that I spend my time bashing people.
Who exactly have I bashed for no good reason?
Evidence or apology please.

I have a life Ben, I live,but I have not been so cloistered as to be ignorant and naive of the real world and that,I’m afraid my friend, is how you strike me.

Allah protect us.
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December 15, 2005 10:53pm
Ben Wilson

TheProphet, I’m not threatening you, so the ‘playground stuff’ is silly. I’m not trying to arrange a punchup or anything, quite the opposite. My point is you have shown poor restraint in your comments on a matter that could be considered inciteful and hiding behind a pseudonym goes a long way to explaining why.

As examples, from your comments:

“Keep an eye on the news Sat nite/Sunday folks.

She’s on.With the bad boys THIS time.”

“However if the people over there that I am in contact with are correct there is going to be very serious bloodshed on Sat night.The MSM can spin it any way they want but dead people make good stories.”

“Maybe a gang war up to now but come Sunday things may never be the same.”

Now I’ve been generally pretty impressed with your thoughts until these pearls started coming out. They make it look like you’re keen on the whole thing and you know something we don’t about what’s going to happen. So your question:
“If I rang the Police and said ‘XXX told me that someone on the East Coast of Australia is going to get hurt on Sat nite but I don’t know who or where’ What do you think they would say Ben?.”

to me the obvious answer would be ‘well, given what happened in Sydney last weekened, we believe you and we’ll be contacting XXX to see if we can head it off at the pass’. They might think it’s a hoax, sure, but only if you insist on anonymity.

I have not accused you of bashing anyone, apologies if it came across that way. But your last post implies strongly that you’re taking vicarious pleasure in what only saddens me.

I don’t follow your ignorant and naive comments – being no stranger to violence, as you profess, is not a guarantee of worldliness or wisdom. I am no stranger either, but I still deplore it. In self defence, fine, as a last resort. But your quoted snippets above imply more than that. You talk of bloodshed in a way that makes me wonder if you’re the same TheProphet who made the earlier posts in this thread.

Perhaps //rant// has got the better of you. I hope so. Sorry man, I sense good intentions in you. But your appeal to ‘hundreds of thousands of years of human conditioning’ counteracts the good intentions. I do think that in 50 years we can learn to control ourselves – we should certainly try. 50 years is a good example, since the general human taste for massive fights has abated since then, for good reasons which doesn’t come from our ancient brainstems. Now the only fights that happen are on a smaller, longer scale. That’s progress. We can go a lot further and seek not to fan these flames in Oz.
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December 16, 2005 3:05am
B.J. Melville

I think both Prophet and Ben Wilson have good points there.

Ben, I agree that there should be an end to the constant crime on the streets of Australian cities (and NZ ones too). Surely you realise though that it is the attitude of muslims and faux gansta rappers to Australian culture that is responsible for the tension.

You can understand that young muslim men and women who are told, by their parents and religious leaders, that Aussie women are “sluts” and “whores” for wearing bikinis at the beach will feel somewhat alienated from the rest of society.

Do you think that young muslim men might try to take advantage of these “whores”? Do you think they might prehaps become angry when the Aussie girls tell them to “f*** off and go get a life you sleazy ****s”? This happens every day on the streets of Sydney and Brisbane.

These young guys come from a society where women are beaten and locked in their homes for looking at a man the wrong way. Add a violent gangsta rap culture to this and things are bound to get nasty.

Prophet is just being realistic about the situation. Tension will continue until the above situation is resolved in some way. It was this very same culture clash between Western culture and militant Islam that sent the resort city of Beirut into civil war 20 years ago.

I’ll be there with camera in hand when the innevitable happens.
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December 16, 2005 11:20am
Ben Wilson

BJ, I half agree with you, in that sexist attitudes and violent counter culture beget tension and violence. But I think you are unfair in laying this entirely on ‘muslims and faux gangsta rappers’. They are not the only violent thugs in ozzie, or the only group with sexist attitudes.

I don’t think the ‘muslims and faux gangsta rappers’ emerge fully formed from their refugee parents. Their parents mostly likely are very bitter on them being little gangstas, like parents of any group are. Perhaps the sexism comes from the folks, perhaps not. It could come from the alienation that they feel from “when the Aussie girls tell them to “f*** off and go get a life you sleazy ****s”?”. Especially if ****s is something like wogs or guidos or coons or sand niggers or whatever….insults that just flowed like water in oz during my time there.

I don’t agree with your analysis of why Beirut fell into anarchy, I think it was a lot more due to foreign military pressure. I can’t think of anywhere that’s ever been improved by bombing.
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December 16, 2005 12:02pm
B.J. Melville

” I can’t think of anywhere that’s ever been improved by bombing” Japan and Nazi Germany are a couple of examples that spring to mind.

As for Cronulla, that event was nothing to with racism. If you look at the pictures taken by a local on the flickr link i suggested above then you would see that there were people of aboriginal, chinese, latin american, italian and greek descent protesting at he behaviour of the muslim youths. It was a genuine, broadly supported protest by the entire beachfront community.

Sadly it was marred when a muslim man put on a show for the cameras by razzing up a couple of drunken yobs and then making a run for it, hence you get the rather embelished account in the media of a “race riot”.
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December 16, 2005 12:25pm
Ben Wilson

BJ, I don’t think bombing Japan and Nazi Germany helped much at all. It served almost no military purpose, caused a lot of loss of innocent life, and dragged us down to the moral level of those we were fighting. It was done almost entirely for revenge purposes, and of course revenge begat revenge, leading to the horrific losses of life that we saw during that war.

What improved those countries eventually was the removal of their disgusting leadership and their complete disarmament, followed by decades of hard work and billions of foreign dollars in rebuilding.

If you saw the firebombed Tokyo, Dresden, or the nuked Hiroshima straight after they happened you would have to be a sick person indeed to think that was an improvement. I think Hiroshima may have been justified from the perspective of saving the lives of US personnel, but I’m not convinced at all that Japanese weren’t right on the verge of surrender. A nuclear demonstration could have served a near equivalent purpose without the thousands of corpses. Perhaps some Japanese diplomats could have been invited to New Mexico to see what they were up against, or a bomb let off on an uninhabited island within view of Japanese ships or planes.

In Cronulla I think you’re revising recent history drastically. There were riots, man, really big ones. There were thousands of witnesses, so I’m not going to take all my information from some pictures and some partisan views.
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December 16, 2005 12:55pm
B.J. Melville

The decisions to firebomb Dresden and Tokyo were made by extremely unemotional politicians in Washington and London. Revenge had nothing to with the destruction of those cities, it was just business.

Speaking of destruction, there was a distinct lack of it at Cronulla. The pro-Australian protestors were extremely well behaved and just wanted Muslim gangs off their beach.

As it turned out, only one muslim man turned up looking to cause trouble and he did so by starting a fight with the drunkest yob he could find and then ran off for the benefit of the news media. He received a minor head injury and was escorted to hospital by police and ambulance officers.

There was no riot. The entire event at Cronulla on the was documented on film and is a glorious example of community spirit mobilised against a group of unwelcome intruders. The press took the NSW labor government’s line, which was quite simply a lie.
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December 16, 2005 4:40pm
Ben Wilson

BJ, are you saying thousands of people who were there are lying?

If Dresden and Tokyo were unemotional business, that doesn’t make them any less unnecessary.
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December 16, 2005 5:52pm
Logix

Ben,
I’m getting genuinely confused here. The Aussie media has labelled the event last weekend as “riots” and posted some pictures of one man getting a beating to back their story. On the other hand all the other pictures I have seen show reasonably peaceful crowds milling about making a point rather than creating mayhem.

Frankly I don’t trust the media. Every event I have ever been involved with personally, that has been subsequently reported in any media, has been misreported beyond all recognition. It seems to me that this has probably happened to this story as well.

Now I am sure that every person who was there will have their own subjective recall of the experience…but is there any dependable source who has recorded what actually happened?
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December 16, 2005 6:05pm
B.J. Melville

Logix, go to flickr dot com and type “cronulla” into the image search box for a comprehensive visual record of the events.
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December 16, 2005 8:47pm
B.J. Melville

And what do you know, they’ve removed the cronulla riot tag and we can’t see the pics anymore 🙁
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December 16, 2005 9:13pm
Logix

BJ,

Those were the pics I was refering to above…I found them earlier today…and now they are gone. Out with the old tinfoil hat I say…mmm.
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December 16, 2005 9:46pm
B.J. Melville

Damn space alien moonbats must have got em. I didn’t know they were working for the NSW govt.
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December 16, 2005 10:04pm
You Are Here

Multiculturalism doesn’t work you fucking idiots! Never will
CHAIOFOTWYC – Come Here And Integrate Or Fuck Off To Whence You Came
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December 16, 2005 10:50pm
B.J. Melville

I have tracked down that cronulla photolibrary to the following: flickr.com/photos/warrenhudson/

Only one muslim guy was set upon and he initiated the confrontation for the sake of the cameras. The muslim leaders have been playing the media like a violin… or is it tamborine.
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December 16, 2005 11:08pm
err..

“Multiculturalism doesn’t work you fucking idiots! Never will CHAIOFOTWYC – Come Here And Integrate Or Fuck Off To Whence You Came”

Ah, welcome the nazi right. Hello!

Shouldn’t you be posting in Maori? Or have you failed to integrate or fuck off to whence you came?
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December 16, 2005 11:48pm
Ben Wilson

Logix impersonator and Kimble, I really don’t think the entirety of Australia has just had a massive delusion that these riots happened. Unless someone slipped something into the water perhaps? Thousands of people were involved, tens of thousands of witnesses. I tend to believe evidence like that.
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December 16, 2005 11:56pm
B.J. Melville

*update*
Here’s a tally of the violence the media has reported so far:

Sat or sun 3rd4th – Muslim homeboy gang bashed a bunch of lifeguards at Cronulla Beach, including knocking one unconscious. They also harassed women on the beach.

sun 11th – cronulla locals turn out to defend the beach from muslim gangs, 1 muslim man, probably not a gang member, was lightly injured and hospitalised after instigating a confrontation for the cameras on the main beach.

mon 12th – ~200 men had assembled outside Lakemba Mosque – some armed with Glock pistols – and dozens more gathered at Campsie.

Several Cronulla streets visited by about 20 carloads of Muslim gang members last night before rampaging through the beach community, smashing car windows and shopfronts with baseball bats. Gunshots heard near the Northies Hotel, opposite north Cronulla beach.

Six people were arrested at Cronulla and on the Kingsway, in nearby Caringbah, after shops and vehicles were attacked.

Two men and three youths were arrested at Maroubra beach after police discovered a replica pistol in the bushes.

Police said the injured included a Bexley couple attacked as they left a restaurant in Caringbah about 10pm (AEDT).

A 35-year-old Lansvale man suffered head injuries and severe facial bruising after being attacked at a youth hostel at Caringbah. He was taken to Sutherland hospital in a stable condition.

A 45-year-old Cronulla man suffered broken ribs and head injuries when he was attacked as he put his rubbish bin out on the street.

A 51-year-old Woolwooware man suffered a broken arm after he was attacked with a baseball bat at Cronulla.

Shots were fired at teachers’ cars, and parents and children were abused at a primary school Christmas carol service in Sydney, the Catholic Church has said. The Catholic Archbishop of Sydney, George Pell, said people at a service on Monday night at St Joseph the Worker Primary School in Auburn were abused by men of Middle Eastern appearance.

tue 13th to fri 16th – police arrest various people connected with the crime wave.
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December 17, 2005 1:08am
Logix

Ben,

Nope I’m the same old moonbat Logix always was. My first comment is what I meant to say… what I have seen so far about the “riots” last weekend has more confused me than convinced me. I’m not getting at anyone or contesting anyone, rather I am trying to understand what really happened and to what extent the media and polititians have distorted the facts.
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December 17, 2005 12:06pm
B.J. Melville

Have a look at the legislation pushed through in the urgent sitting of NSW parliament, supported by both sides of the house. If successful, the NZ govt might look at using it as a model.
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December 17, 2005 12:51pm
B.J. Melville

Have a look at the legislation pushed through in the urgent sitting of NSW parliament, supported by both sides of the house. If successful, the NZ govt might look at using it as a model. Very interesting stuff.
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December 17, 2005 12:52pm
err..

“Here’s a tally of the violence the media has reported so far: …

sun 11th – cronulla locals turn out to defend the beach from muslim gangs, 1 muslim man, probably not a gang member, was lightly injured and hospitalised after instigating a confrontation for the cameras on the main beach.”

Wow, that’s a nice piece of revisionism of the “violence the media has reported so far”. Two seconds on the BBC site will find you images of drunken shirtless rednecks trying to bottle policemen, and more. And that’s just the pictures.

That doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story, but there was, according to all available evidence, considerably more violence on the 11th than you’re asserting here.

It’s also worth noting that the existence of photos of the day NOT showing violence does not disprove that it happened. It’s actually very hard to take good, clear photos of violence – I have a bunch of photos here that, if you look at them with a magnifying glass and a lot of imagination, show London police beating people at random from horseback in a crowd. But if you saw the photo and hadn’t been there you’d never believe it.

The fact that there are enough high-quality photos of violence suggests to me that there was considerably more than just one event on the day.
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December 17, 2005 1:25pm
B.J. Melville

I am informed that the BBC photo you mention shows a drunk being restrained by two of his mates after the police attempted to confiscate a carton of stubbies from the group. An understandable move on the part of the police, and a typical reaction on the part of drunk, but again, nothing to do with ‘race riots’.
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December 17, 2005 9:56pm
B.J. Melville

And now, the Labor premier of NSW has had one of his ministers introduce ’emergency legislation’ to give his government extra police powers for a term of 2 years, its expiry coincidentally being the likely date of his retirement from politics.

Smokescreen politics is alive and well. I wouldn’t be surprised if NZ Labour tries something similar. They are at a similar late stage of their government to NSW Labor, so it may be an effective means for them to push some legislation through on the sly. Coincidence that racist posters go up around Wellington?
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December 18, 2005 11:45am
slingshot

Late stage of government in NSW ? . Labour has been in power in NSW since 1992. So six years in NZ is the same as 12 years in NSW! You are a silly fathead BJ, stick to counting the number of cornflakes you get for breakfast.
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December 18, 2005 12:14pm
B.J. Melville

NSW Labor, though victorious in the last election, has lost ground dramatically since Bob Carr resigned the Premiership. He had surrounded himself with incompetent union men and ethnic players to ensure he remained in control of his party. The current Premier, Morris Iemma, member for the muslim stronghold of Lakemba, has lost ground steadily since taking over.

NZ PM Helen Clarke has also lost ground, as you all know she can’t really count on a majority in parliament. It is unlikely that NZ Labour can have any meaningful legislative impact without something extraordinary happening and they won’t just resign themselves to bench warming until they are thrown out next election.

Drumming up racial tension might be just the thing to bring the maori party back into the fold.
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December 18, 2005 12:47pm
slingshot

“you all know she can’t really count on a majority in parliament”
Poor helen, could never count on a majority from the labour party only from day one she was PM.
But since she is in a much better position than Don Brash who couldnt count on a mjaority even with the maori party. cant accept that Labour hasnt lost any support from the last election. Don’s lies managed to kill most of ACT, NZF, UF, but didnt make any difference to labours votes. There must be a billboard for that one, only if he doesnt overspend!
Looks like support will have to be found on each and every piece of legislation , as the voters intended, not that passing laws is a real problem, running the government is the real prize. Roll on the next 6 years like in NSW !
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December 18, 2005 1:17pm
B.J. Melville

Maybe I’m a little behind the 8 ball today. I just remembered that Clarke already played the race card in response to Don’s calls for national unity and an end to racial discrimination.
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December 18, 2005 2:23pm
B.J. Melville

An interesting article in the SMH, a left leaning paper. I still don’t discount that a Labor premier may have had some influence over the behaviour of the muslim gangs through his connections with the Lebanese Muslims in Lakemba. He did after all use Muslims to stack his branch.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/a-great-divide-takes-some-understanding/2005/12/16/1134703611534.html
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December 18, 2005 2:29pm
Jock Mc Kenzie

Hmmmmm I SEE,,,
When white folks riot its called “Racism”—
When Ethnic minorities Riot its called “oppression”.

Its about time we saw the spirit of the blues eyed standing up for our time honoured beliefs, to many PC liberal dogooders let these Outspoken minorities get the upper hand,,,,,,PLEASE SUPPORT CHRISTMAS,,,those religions who have no Christmas should not be in our western nations!
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December 18, 2005 4:54pm
B.J. Melville

According to a retired Sydney detective, there are only about 200 or so hardcore troublemakers in that pseudo-muslim subgroup of Western Sydney’s gang culture. There have been about 40 arrests so far and they don’t seem to make trouble unless there are about 100 of them present, so I guess Sydney is past the worst of it.

There has been a lot of talk from the gangs in the other capitals and on the Gold Coast but so far no violence. It seems the smarter ones have accepted a tactical defeat and are keeping a lid on things.
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December 18, 2005 8:36pm
Evan

Who is to blame?

1: John Howard for sending our troops to Iraq against our wishes and creating this terrorism nightmare we are in?

2: The hooligans in Cronulla who are a disgrace to Australia due to being uneducated on how to accept a multi cultural country?

3: The thug Lebanese gangs that have created a bad name for all the Lebanese community? This group of thugs are on the same level as the Cronulla hooligans. They too are uneducated and a disgrace to the Lebanese race.

4: The media for creating stories that install hate, fear and racism in the minds of most Australians?

I don’t have the answers to the question or the problems that awaits us.

I am an Australian born male from Greek origin. It was only until last week did I know the nationality of each of my friends. Prior to the riots this was not even an issue. But now I can tell you I have Lebanese, Chinese, Indian, Pakistan, Thai, Aboriginal, Indonesian, New Zealanders, English, Serbian, French Mauritian, Japanese, Jewish, Muslim and Australian friends.

This group of friends does not see colour, race or place of birth as the decider on who to associate with. This group of friends joined as one to help the fight to bring shapelle Corby home. This group of friends mourned together at the loss in tsunami. This group of friends cried together over the Bali bombings. This group of friends are equally disgusted at the attention the race riots in Sydney are receiving.

We are the people of Australia, we are Australian, and we should be in the media. Show the world what we are, a country that is tolerant and accepting of all. Do not grab a small piece of ugly crime and make it the only view of Australian lifestyle. This race riot story does not warrant anymore media coverage.

The people that are causing the trouble should immediately be locked up. They are a threat to society and do not deserve the freedom Australia is known for.

There was old saying my grandmother once told me,
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December 19, 2005 10:38pm
Dave McGeoch

Hey Guys,

The name’s David and I am an Aussie exchange student over in Brazil. I just read an SMH article about the race riots and then decided to have a read to see what people had to say on the topic. I was shocked and appalled to say the least. How can you guys condone race violence against women children? I hate the way there is so much division coming out of this, people are either labelling the other side left or right. Then you’ve got NZ’s saying that they don’t want to visit Australia now as a result of what happened. Is that really what you guys want? The Lebanese rape cases were horrible and also racially based. But didn’t pretty much everyone denounce what happened, including a lot of Lebanese leaders. Didn’t the guys that did it end up in prison? How can these poor souls attacked be responsible for the actions of the gangs? There is too much paranoia in oz about minority groups getting a free ride from the Government. Sure there are gonna be the odd bunch of dole bludgers, but there are white ones as well. What I hate is all this hate talk, enough division. Call me a bleeding heart liberal, I trully don’t care. But you would be ignoring the fact that we are all in this together. Who agrees?
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December 24, 2005 1:17pm
geoff

you’re all as bloody bad as the people clashing on the beaches
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March 5, 2006 2:03pm

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