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December 18, 2006 9:18am by David Farrar

Advanced MMP Quiz

The Electoral Commission has an advanced MMP quiz with nine questions.

A couple of tough questions there.

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Comments (108)

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Peter Metcalfe

The first question (what is high political efficiacy) is simply pathetic as the correctness of the answer is dependent not on facts nor legislation but some arcane definition known only to political scientists.
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December 18, 2006 10:01am
PaulL

7 of 9 – I figured that the politically correct wouldn’t put a question in where the correct answer was… suppose that would spoil it for others.
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December 18, 2006 10:03am
Linda Wright

7/9 – I should have read the question more carefully.
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December 18, 2006 10:30am
Graeme Edgeler

7 out of 9; do have a bone to pick, however…

**SPOILERS**

“Registered parties receive state campaign funding based largely on their success at the previous election.”

No, registered parties receive state campaign funding largely on whether they are National or Labour or some smaller party.

When Labour gets 1.1 million compared to National’s $900,000, despite being nearly twice as successful at the 2002, and New Zealand First gets $200,000, despite being nearly half as successful as National in 2002, then success is largely unimportant.

Must say that I thought Maori on the general roll were more likely to vote than those on the Maori roll, though.
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December 18, 2006 10:33am
Errol

Agree with Peter M on the first question (7/9, and got the two I was unsure of wrong).
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December 18, 2006 11:25am
Chris

So what was your score DPF?
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December 18, 2006 11:25am
Richard

7/10

I agree about question #1, its a test of understanding a word, not knowledge of MMP. Oh, and I got it wrong, so extra reason why its a crap question 🙂

Also not reading the other question properly (but I didn’t know once you are out of NZ for 3 years you can’t vote).
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December 18, 2006 11:46am
Porcupine

Can someone explain this BS:

How does the Representation Commission determine the number of general electorates in the South Island?

Correct answer: It is always 16

Good to see confirmation that the Maori seats are “more equal” than others.
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December 18, 2006 12:44pm
Ron

The percentage of party votes cast for a party is used …

Surely it is used in calculation to help give out the 120(ish) seats?
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December 18, 2006 12:47pm
Porcupine

Hey if the number of electorates is set by arbitrarily assigning 16 seats to the relatively static SI population, isnt that a good argument for a birth control subsance in the SI drinking water?
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December 18, 2006 1:02pm
Graeme Edgeler

Ron – no – the exact numbers of votes received are used, applying the Saint-Lague formula, not the percentages.

Porcupine – Maaori seats are worth more, although under FPP they may have been (when they were arbitrarily set at four).

There are 16 electorates in the SI, and 7 Maaori seats – this is because the Maaori electoral population is roughly 7/16ths of the SI electoral population.

If the number of Maaori on the Maaori roll decreased then the number of Maaori seats would decrease, so that they were proportionally worth the same (somewhere around 55,000 people each).
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December 18, 2006 1:29pm
Graeme Edgeler

damn!

Maaori seats AREN’T worth more…
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December 18, 2006 1:33pm
Brian (Shadowfoot)

I have a low level of political efficacy because I can’t say I find politics interesting. Does that mean I shouldn’t bother researching things before an election and voting?
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December 18, 2006 3:26pm
David Farrar

I got 8/9. The one I got wrong was me being pedantic over whether parties get funding for their campaigns as technically they don’t get the money, they just direct how it is used. So I am a moral 9/9 as I knew the law, the question wasn’t as clear as it could have been.
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December 18, 2006 4:08pm
Richard

DPF, then I get a moral 8/9 🙂

Did anyone get an “actual” 9/9 ?
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December 18, 2006 4:26pm
Ele

Why, if a list MP wins a bi-election would the next un-elected person on that MP’s party list become an MP? The total number of MPs that party has remains the same if a list MP becomes an electorate MP. It’s the party vote which counts and that isn’t changed by a bi-election; and if the party got another list MP when a former list MP wins a bi-election it would then have one more MP than it was entitled to by the party vote in the previous general election.

If there was to be any more list MPs surely it would only come if a list MP from one party (A)one a bi-election in a seat formerly held by another (B) because then party B would have one fewer MP than its party vote entitlement.

Ele
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December 18, 2006 10:59pm
Ele

Why, if a list MP wins a bi-election would the next un-elected person on that MP’s party list become an MP? The total number of MPs that party has remains the same if a list MP becomes an electorate MP. It’s the party vote which counts and that isn’t changed by a bi-election; and if the party got another list MP when a former list MP wins a bi-election it would then have one more MP than it was entitled to by the party vote in the previous general election.

If there was to be any more list MPs surely it would only come if a list MP from one party (A)one a bi-election in a seat formerly held by another (B) because then party B would have one fewer MP than its party vote entitlement.

Ele
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December 18, 2006 11:02pm
Masked Marvel

9/9. Heh, that Pols degree comes in handy sometimes.
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December 19, 2006 5:27am
Masked Marvel

9/9. Heh, that Pols degree comes in handy sometimes. Edge would have got 9/9 too – he’s just being modest.
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December 19, 2006 5:28am
Ele

To answer my own question above: the quiz question has assumed that the bi election was won by a list member from the party which held the seat in the first place. In that case the next unelected person on that party’s list would go into parliament to maintain proportionality.

However, if the bi election was won by a list MP from a party which hadn’t previously held the seat there would not be an extra MP from their party come on to the list. But the party which had held the seat would be eligible for someone else from the list (because losing the seat means they had one fewer MP than the party vote had entitled them to). So the answer to the question is: it depends on whether the seat is won by a list member from the party which had already held it or not.

Ele

p.s. sorry about double post above, I got a message saying the first message couldn’t be posted so sent it again.
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December 19, 2006 9:21am
Graeme Edgeler

Ele – I’m afraid you’re wrong.

If Rodney were to resign from Parliament to pursue a dancing career, and Richard Worth were to win Epsom Back for National, Act would fall to one MP, and National would gain an extra list member.
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December 19, 2006 9:44am
Ele

Graeme – Are you sure? If Rodney resigned from Epsom Act wouldn’t be entitled to any MPs at all (because they were under the 5% threshold) but parties don’t lose list MPs if proportionality changes at a by-election. However, National wouldn’t gain any list MPs because Richard would move from the list to an electorate leaving National’s proportion of MPs unchanged.

If however, the electorate had previously been held by a party which had crossed the 5% threshold at the last election I think it would be the same as if there was a change between election night and the final count eg a seat goes to Labour on election night but at the final count goes to National then Labour would get one more list MP (and if the one who lost the seat was next on the list it would be him/her.

If the person who won the seat at the final count was already an MP via the list then National wouldn’t get an extra MP and if the winner hadn’t already got in on the list the last National list MP in would be out.

Whether a list MP becomes an electorate MP between election night and the final count or in a by-election his/her party (which has already crossed the 5% threshold) does not get an extra list MP because there is no change in the proportion of MPs they have.

Ele
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December 19, 2006 11:06am
David Farrar

Ele – Graeme is absolutely right. Proportionality only applies to election night, not to the whole term of Parliament.
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December 19, 2006 11:14am
Ele

David – does this mean that if a party loses a seat in a by-election then it doesn’t get another MP in on the list but the party which won the seat does? Or do both parties get another list MP?

Take the example of Pete Hodgson resigning and Katherine Rich winning the consequent by-election in Dunedin North. Katherine goes from being a list MP to an electorate MP and if what you say is correct National gets another list MP so ends up with one more MP in total. Does Labour a) get another list MP (to replace the electorate MP it lost) or does it b)complete the term one MP down?

a) means Labour finishes with the same number of MPs in total even though it lost the electorate b) means it would have one fewer because it lost an electorate MP and didn’t gain a list one.

If National wins the electorate and gets another list MP the centre-right ends one up under a) and two up under b) – good for those of us who are blue, but hardly fair.

Ele
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December 19, 2006 12:17pm
Graeme Edgeler

Ele – using your Dunedin North example – it’s basically b (but National would gain one, not two).

If the Dunedin North by-election were held, and won by Katherine Rich, then Labour would lose a seat (down to 49 MPs) and National would gain a seat (to 49 MPs too).

Labour would keep the same number of list MPs they were entitled to at the last election (19), but would have one fewer electorate seats (down to 30).

National would keep the same number of list MPs as at the last election (17), and would have an extra electorate seat (32). To ensure National had the same number of list seats when Rich resigned her list to to take up the electorate seat, her list seat would be filled by the next list member.

I realise this is a little counter-intuitive, but that’s the way it presently works.
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December 19, 2006 12:39pm
Ele

Graeme – that means that in a general election the number of electorates are taken into account so it’s the total number of MPS which matters but they aren’t in a by-election when it’s only the number of list MPs which matter.

When I said National would be two-up what I meant was that the difference between National and Labour would increase by two in National’s favour; because Labour lost an electorate MP who wasn’t replaced by one on the list while National gained a seat and got an additional list MP as well.

It isn’t logical that a party which wins a by-election gets an extra list MP and goes over its entitlement while the party which loses the seat in the by-election doesn’t get another list MP and so has one less than they’re entitled to.

It does explain why Labour was so keen not to force Field to resign though.
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December 19, 2006 1:48pm
Graeme Edgeler

Thought you might have been saying that, but wasn’t sure – decided to make sure the point was clear.

It is somewhat illogical, but not really any more logical than New Zealand First losing a large number of votes when it split in 1998…
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