General Debate 03 October 2008

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dad4justice

Careful nefarious you’ll upset the cauldron of feminazi socialist witches fermenting on level 9 with all that Livid Wine.

Edit – RRM – I love Sarah.
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October 3, 2008 5:16pm
RRM

PS: If you think “Being disagreed with” = “intimidation, social ostracism and silencing of dissent” then don’t get involved in political debate; you are probably going to have a lifetime of feeling like a victim in everything!
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October 3, 2008 5:16pm
jafapete

Redbaiter: “Respondents in the same poll were also asked who was more likeable. Results- Palin 54 percent, Biden 36
percent.”

True. And in good times, Americans have been known to vote for the one they’d “rather have a beer with.” But (a) they learnt the hard way about voting this way over the past eight years, and (b) these surely ain’t good times.

In any case, at the top of the ticket Obama is pulling ahead on the “I’d rather have a beer with” polls. as with most other polls.
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October 3, 2008 5:18pm
Nefarious

“In any case, at the top of the ticket Obama is pulling ahead on the “I’d rather have a beer with” polls. as with most other polls.”

What about the “I’d rather have several bottles of tequila with and then try and shag” poll? Is he topping that too?
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October 3, 2008 5:23pm
dad4justice

jafapete – having a beer with Bill Clinton would be a dangerous pastime for any sane and moral lady.
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October 3, 2008 5:23pm
RRM

dad – you’re right she’s not bad looking for a politician. But for my liking, a bit too zealous with the “Dinosaurs walked with man 6,000 years ago” thing though. Although blind god-bothering faith is almost a requisite for attaining high office in the USA now I gather. I like my women to be grounded in 20th century thought at the very least…
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October 3, 2008 5:24pm
redeye

CBS focus group: (which appears about right for mine)

“46 percent say he won compared to 21 percent for Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

“Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

“Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

“Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn’t changed.

“After the debate, 66 percent see Palin as knowledgeable about important issues – up from 43 percent before the debate. But Biden still has the advantage on this – 98 percent saw him as knowledgeable after the debate. That figure was 79 percent before the debate.
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October 3, 2008 5:25pm
Nefarious

But RRM, god fearing girls are so damned dirty.

They just need a little corrupting, not in the Winnocent/Helen mould of course.
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October 3, 2008 5:26pm
dad4justice

RRM “grounded” or ground hog day? I did not have sex with that Camel Hillary.
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October 3, 2008 5:27pm
Lindsay Addie

Did anyone see Bill O’Reilly go toe-to-toe with that Democratic plonker Barney Frank on Fox today?
It was hilarious, the funniest pollitical interview I’ve seen in years. Here it is:
Frank vs O’Reilly

O’Reilly can be a prick sometimes, pity there weren’t interviewers here with the spine to call liars out when they deserve it.
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October 3, 2008 5:32pm
RRM

She’s no Condoleeza Rice though. Damn, I’d tap that…
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October 3, 2008 5:33pm
jafapete

RRM, I’d probably settle for post-Enlightenment thought (before I got married, of course), but that would still eliminate Palin from the pool.

Nefarious asks, “What about the “I’d rather have several bottles of tequila with and then try and shag” poll? Is he topping that too?” Haven’t seen that one, but the way the polls are going…

Damn redeye, how could as many as 2% of those who watched the debate not think Biden is knowledgeable? They must have polled big bruv, who watched the debate on another planet.

BTW, redeye is the name of that lame as Faux News program with Greg Gutwretch isn’t it?
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October 3, 2008 5:36pm
Inventory2

Did anyone else hear Larry Williams’s interview with Det Sgt Dave Pizzini on Newstalk ZB a few minutes ago, and wonder if the lunatics really ARE running the asylum?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/10/dial-111-yeah-right.html
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October 3, 2008 5:37pm
Redbaiter

“Irony anyone?”

Another minimally educated leftist fuckwit who doesn’t know what ‘irony’ means.
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October 3, 2008 5:47pm
redeye

Jafa, dunno, I wouldn’t stain my TV with that crap.

Don’t tell me they’ve pinched my name?
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October 3, 2008 5:48pm
redeye

Sticks and stones redbaiter.
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October 3, 2008 5:50pm
Redbaiter

“But for my liking, a bit too zealous with the “Dinosaurs walked with man 6,000 years ago” thing though.”

You painfully ignorant dipshit- for God’s sake, why do you hang around here with a brain like that?? If it weren’t for sniffling retards and MSM sponges like you, they (the MSM) would have gone broke a decade or two ago. Hopeless…!!
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October 3, 2008 5:52pm
kiwi in america

jafapete
The CBS poll has a 41% Democrat vs 27% Republican voter ID split. Not hard to win with that degree of bias. I haven’t seen the CNN split but they have used the 2006 voter ID split in past polls that also strongly favour the Dems. The Fox poll of course had a strong Palin win.

Drudge has lately been in the tank for Obama so he’s not the right wing lion he used to be. With over 20 million daily hits, he’s getting a huge across the spectrum readership. Also its very hard to stack a poll where almost 200,000 participated.

Biden has been on the national stage for decades, Obama has been campaigning for 19 months and McCain could do debates in his sleep. That Palin held her own and clearly bested Biden in some of the exchanges after only 5 weeks in the national spotlight is the real takeaway. Her debate performance could not be sullied by biased gotchas (witness Couric’s grilling of Palin vs her softly softly interview of Biden) or by selective media editing.

Pollster Frank Luntz allowed his focus group to be selected by a professional independent profiling firm after he was stung from using panels of supposed undecideds in previous debates and speeches when a number were unearthed as unabashed Obama supporters. His panel tonight of genuine undecideds scored a big win for Palin.

Normally VP debates make little difference. I think Palin helped McCain more than she hurt him whereas Biden was solid but neither a help nor hinderance to Obama. The bailout package looks set to pass the House. McCain’s role in trying to pass legislation providing greater oversight over Fannie and Freddie that was voted down by Democrats and his tying Raines and Johnson (both involved in the Obama campaign) to the mortgage meltdown is starting to bite.
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October 3, 2008 5:53pm
dad4justice

Inventory2 – The New Zealand Police have lost the plot. University degrees don’t nail hard core criminals.
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October 3, 2008 5:53pm
Redbaiter

“The CBS poll has a 41% Democrat vs 27% Republican voter ID split. Not hard to win with that degree of bias. I haven’t seen the CNN split but they have used the 2006 voter ID split in past polls that also strongly favour the Dems. ”

I read about that yesterday on Newsbusters (I think). Amazing that they (CBS) still retain any credibility. Still, they’re desperate I suppose. Need to give their man a boost. Palin’s got them all shitting their pants. She’s a star.
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October 3, 2008 5:59pm
NeillR

She’s no Condoleeza Rice though. Damn, I’d tap that…
You are Winston Peters and i claim my $5.
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October 3, 2008 6:01pm
haydenmunro

Redbaiter, I dunno if the left in America are “shitting their pants” at all, especially the Obama campaign. Palin’s effect on this election is largely over with, she’s hyped the Republican base up, and for a while that helped McCain’s poll numbers. but she’s turning off large numbers of voters in vital areas like Florida (which should NEVER be polling for Obama but a number of the major polling companies have him ahead there at the moment.) She did well enough in the debate, and contributed hugley to McCain’s post convention bounce. But her unfavourable’s have been climbing, and McCain’s poll numbers are in the toilet.

Obama is going to win this election, and I don’t think Palin (no matter how much you may personally like her) brings enough to the ticket to turn that around.
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October 3, 2008 6:02pm
Redbaiter

“Did anyone see Bill O’Reilly go toe-to-toe with that Democratic plonker Barney Frank on Fox today?”

That lily livered left wing scumbag would need to start going toe to toe with someone. Fucken sell out. Kissing Obama’s arse. Attacking oil companies. Attacking Republicans over the mortgage crisis. Useless.
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October 3, 2008 6:04pm
dad4justice

After watching TV news crap – question MADam speaker super justice big nose justice ministerial nitwit Kingy thingy ;will shop keepers issue knives so customers can stab them? New Zealand Police are dumbos. Get a life you silly Helengrad puppets.
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October 3, 2008 6:04pm
Redbaiter

“Obama is going to win this election”

So the left and the MSM, in unison, keep telling us. Has to be fact then don’t it?
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October 3, 2008 6:07pm
haydenmunro

No, so I keep telling you. So are you willing to go on record predicting a McCain win? Or do you agree with me?
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October 3, 2008 6:18pm
PaulL

Redbaiter, I’d bet my money that Obama is going to win. And I really don’t want him to. But the reality is that this election was a big ask for the Republicans – they’ve been in power for a while, and Bush is very unloved. Picking McCain helps a lot – he is a more to the centre, so starts to claw some votes back from the Dems. But I reckon a lot of the undecideds will break for the Dems, and a lot of Republicans will just stay home.

The polls are broadly telling us that – McCain keeps catching up, but the point is that by default he seems to be behind, and the few polls where he is lineball with Obama are the ones people on the right talk about. The numbers say Obama has it, and the feel to me is that Obama will get it.

Ah well, even odds that he’ll be so incompetent he’ll be a one term President. He might be smart enough to surround himself with good advisers and not attempt to do too much (it’s not like he has a record of doing anything at all anyway). He might equally just make a complete hash of attempting to manage an economy going into recession. Hopefully we’ll get Romney next time – I think he would have made a better Republican candidate.
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October 3, 2008 6:31pm
big bruv

I see dear corrupt maggot leader has said that Winston should never have been found guilty by the privileges committee as the evidence would “not stand up in court”

I had no idea that dear corrupt maggot leader is a lawyer.

This fucking bitch genuinely thinks she and her cronies are above the law and yet 35% of the people in this stupid bloody country still want her to be PM.
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October 3, 2008 6:40pm
kiwi in america

haydenmunro
Obama holds only a narrow lead over McCain. The RCP average is weighted with old media polls that overly represent Democrats. The same pollsters breathlessly predicted Gore and Kerry wins even after exit polls on election day and became victims of their flawed methodology. The gap even in the more respected polls is pretty much the margin of error and we still have over a month to go so anything can happen especially with October ‘surprises’ planned by both campaigns. Obama has been the temporary beneficiary of a firestorm of negative economic news that invariable hurts the incumbent party’s candidate. With this tailwind and the most lopsided, partisan biased media coverage in history Obama should be absolutely caning McCain and he isn’t.

In the last 14 primaries Obama UNDERPERFORMED versus the polls in every State except North Carolina (with 37% AA voters). By underformed I mean his actual vote on the day was on average 3 percentage points lower than the polling average. Some posit the so-called Bradley effect (popular African-American LA mayor Tom Bradley was leading his opponent by 6 points in the 1982 CA Senate race but lost narrowly to his white opponent). Whatever it was, Obama was dragged across the finish line not by Democrat voters but by the super delegates after a string of sometimes huge defeats.

Gore and Kerry victories were as smugly trumpetted by the MSM and the chattering classes of the world as your prediction. Neither group understands middle America and neither do you.
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October 3, 2008 6:44pm
big bruv

I still think that all those who are desperately hoping for an Obama victory are forgetting one very important thing.
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October 3, 2008 6:53pm
PaulL

Arrgggh. The suspense is killing my big bruv!!!

I’d much prefer Obama didn’t win. It just doesn’t feel that way. I think McCain has a sniff of it, but it is Obama’s to lose. Obama is to my mind pretty lightweight, so a few bad interviews and some tough decisions needed on the fly could very quickly swing things. Conversely, a friendly media with no hard questions, a carefully stage managed campaign with no need to think for yourself, and his generally pretty likeable and energetic presentations could easily be enough to keep him in front. I don’t think McCain has any big guns to bring to bear – he just has to keep doing a solid job of his campaign and hope that Obama chokes somehow.

Almost the opposite of the NZ election to be honest – I reckon the NZ election is Key’s to lose, but he is more than capable of screwing it up. And Helen just has to keep soldiering on and hope that Key chokes at the last hurdle.
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October 3, 2008 7:04pm
redeye

Yes Bruv, as unlikely as it sounds, a black man is going to be the leader of the free world. He wouldn’t have had a chance if it wasn’t for the incompetence of Junior Bush, and the baggage that McCain carries. I mean, do you really want a lying gambling addict with such a temper he calls his wife a cunt in public with his finger on the button?

“John has made a pact with the devil,” says Lincoln Chafee, the former GOP senator, who has been appalled at his one-time colleague’s readiness to sacrifice principle for power. Chafee and McCain were the only Republicans to vote against the Bush tax cuts. They locked arms in opposition to drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And they worked together in the “Gang of 14,” which blocked some of Bush’s worst judges from the federal bench.

“On all three — sadly, sadly, sadly — McCain has flip-flopped,” Chafee says. And forget all the “Country First” sloganeering, he adds. “McCain is putting himself first. He’s putting himself first in blinking neon lights.”

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/1
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October 3, 2008 7:20pm
haydenmunro

Kiwi In America,

You make some good points (I also appreciate that you were able to make the case against Obama with out once using the term leftist fuckwit).

However, I’m still picking Obama, and not based on polls but because the tanking economy will probably continue to dominate this election, and Obama in every poll I’ve seen, be it by the msm, gallup or any of the other big polling companies have Obama ahead in the polls.

Also the Obama defeats in the primaries happened at a time when Obama was hurting from the Wright scandal, and voters were veru uneasy with him, especially middle American voters. It seems to me however that the wright damage has subsided, and that voters have had time to get used to Obama.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I will happily be back here on November 5th to let you rub my face in it if you are right.
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October 3, 2008 7:24pm
big bruv

Comrade Redeye

I would rather have Bush again than a committed communist in the form of Hussein Obama.

BTW, have you seen the clip that proves Obama is nothing more than soundbites?, the man is a fool who cannot think for himself.
He reminds me of a young Winston Peters, yes he is smooth and good with a prepared script (and tame media) but when you come down to it he is shallow and has no policy at all.

Have you or any of your other red pals actually heard how he is going to “change” things?
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October 3, 2008 7:31pm
haydenmunro

gah, sorry i meant to say “every poll I’ve seen, be it by the msm, gallup or any of the other big polling companies have Obama leading on that issue.”

apologies.
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October 3, 2008 7:38pm
Southern Raider

I’ve lost all faith in the Police. A youth starts a brawl in your shop, stabs you in the leg and the store owner gets sent to court?
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October 3, 2008 7:53pm
slightlyrighty

Southern Raider.

I am thinking the same thing. It is quite telling that on the same day this is announced, an Avondale Lotto Shop staff member is stabbed several times by an assailant. Mr Singh may have gone overboard in the eyes of the police, but given the recent death of another Mr Singh, the statements of Detective Pizzini who said shop owners who feared for their safety ” need to get on the phone, dial 111 and the police will respond and deal with it”, ring very hollow indeed.

With that background, can one blame him?
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October 3, 2008 8:03pm
philu

“..Have you or any of your other red pals actually heard how he is going to “change” things?..”

rumour is..he is going to soak the fucken rich..

..raising taxes/windfall taxes..

..he’ll have to..to try and fix up the fucken messes the rightwingers have made..

..bush inherited four years of surpluses under clinton..

..hasn’t he done well..?

..at turning those surpluses into record deficits..

..at pouring squillions into the black hole that is iraq..

..at really fucking up the environment..

..and really really fucking the american/global(?) economie(s).

..listen..when you have got unashamed american apologist..steve hoadley..from auck uni.

..saying bush is ‘the worst president ever’..

..eh..?..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)..

and isn’t that k.i.a.’funny’..eh..?

now he is relying on primary defeats..and a 1983 mayoral race..

..to make his case for a obama defeat..

..fucken hilarious..!

..k.i.a. will probably be demanding a recount..as obama is sworn in..

..i mean..k.i.a. has been 100% wrong so far..

(with all his predictions of when clinton would rise up and strike obama down..remember all them..?..heh heh..!..)

..i guess he/she is going for the trifecta ..eh..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 3, 2008 8:15pm
dad4justice

Speaking of a trifecta phool, did you pop three party pills?
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October 3, 2008 8:21pm
philu

and k.i.a should get a special ‘green award’..

..for recycling all the american rightwing ‘talking points’..

..eh..?

..phil(whoar,co.nz)
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October 3, 2008 8:21pm
philu

never tried party pills..

..from what i hear..they were a total waste of time/rip-off..

(you’d have stacked away a few ales by this time on a friday nite..eh..?..d4j..?)

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 3, 2008 8:23pm
dad4justice

Sorry phool I don’t drink when I’m working you deranged creep!!
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October 3, 2008 8:28pm
philu

whatever..!..(yawn..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 3, 2008 8:30pm
WebWrat

If Obama wins, it wont be on his merits, it will be due to the manipulation of the election by the pinko lame stream media.

OT. It never ceases to amaze me how the types that vote Liarbore/Green and vilify George Bush can idolise this sadistic, murdering, filthy, communist mongrel.
http://nzconservative.blogspot.com/2008/10/was-che-guevara-evil.html
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October 3, 2008 9:39pm
georgebolwing

I was just thinking, has anyone seen the Prime Minister lately. Tall women, kiwi accent, head of government, normally driven around in very fast cars.

It’s just that we have, as of today, had 3/8ths of the election campaign and I can’t recall seeing any reports of the PM actually doing anything this week.

Two theories come to mind. The first, and least likely, is that Labour’s polling has shown that they are making absolutely no progress with Plan A (John Key sucks) and they have no Plan B and so they are in a complete funk and don’t know what to do. The smarter member of the caucus have already given up and have started the plotting to replace Dear Leader.

The second is that they have a series of new policy initiatives to roll out which, while fiscally irresponsible and popularist in the extreme, is the only thing that they can think of the out spend National’s tax cuts. I am waiting to hear how Michael Cullen will explain that he has suddenly found that his fiscal comfort zone is somewhat larger than he thought.
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October 3, 2008 9:48pm
Redbaiter

“No, so I keep telling you. So are you willing to go on record predicting a McCain win? Or do you agree with me?”

I’m not into predictions. I leave that to seers, prophets, necromancers and other experts.
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October 3, 2008 9:49pm
RRM

Well I’VE just come back from watching a re-run of the Palin/Biden debate on the big screen at J.J.Murphy’s (Cuba Mall Dahlings, near the bucket fountain.)

{Awesome social life I know, but I have yank mates who were dead keen, and anyway the US election may well influence our lives more than our own shades of blue/red Decision’08.}

I did very much admire the way both kept personal attacks right out of it, a lesson our own leaders across the whole spectrum could do well to learn from. The only references to an opponent’s background were always of the form “XXXX which Obama in fact voted FOR…” or “you say that now but in fact sen. McCain actually voted AGAINST YYYY…” etc.

There was a certain amount of irony in some of the pleasantries (“and it is such a pleasure to finally meet you face to face senator…”) but that was as bad as it got – no shouting the opponent down in mid sentence, nor Helen Clark’s trademark laughing haughtily over the top of a critical speaker. Both palin and Biden would grin in an OTT way whenever they wanted it to be obvious they thought the other was talking shit.

OTOH, there were a couple of major clangers from Palin where she would essentially go something like “Well we’ve only got limited time, so rather than answer THAT issue I’d like to go back to what I was saying earlier about our energy independence…”
The very pro-Biden crowd at Murphy’s was not impressed, but more to the point the “worm” of swing voters from Ohio was not either. She also spoke about “nucular weapons” and the war in “I-rark” a bit too often to give me any belief that she was much of a citizen of the world. She also brought up the timeless wisdom of people in the street as an answer to complex economical and strategic questions a bit too often for this punter’s taste. But then there was a bit of rhetoric from both sides about the schools and hardware stores of their hometowns, and about what “the middle class” wants or knows or expects.
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October 3, 2008 9:58pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Redbaiter, Debate doesn’t appear to be your strong point. Spittle inducing diatribes have become tiresome. You appear to have lost the power of reasoning. Labour supporters aren’t evil, just misguided.
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October 3, 2008 9:58pm
RRM

PhilU: Apparently you’re better off doing Coke than those party pills or “herbals”, because if you overdose the emergency room staff know how to recognise the signs of coke o/d, and how to treat you, whereas apparently the newfangled substances are all too unknown and scary to really deal with.

I know this, because two girls who would have been all of about 15 were discussing it on the bus the other day…!
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October 3, 2008 10:09pm
Redbaiter

“Spittle inducing diatribes have become tiresome.”

Can I suggest you cease reading them then? It will at least save you your spittle. Idiot.
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October 3, 2008 10:14pm
Glutaemus Maximus

How about you get some decorum. Ignorant Pig.

You are actually a bigot!
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October 3, 2008 10:17pm
Redbaiter

“You are actually a bigot!”

Thanks for that opinion. I guess you must truly think it counts for something.
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October 3, 2008 10:24pm
Glutaemus Maximus

To be fair, I think that I have a lot more reason to believe that.
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October 3, 2008 10:28pm
lloydois

Jesus RRM, you’re way too sane for here. Redbaiter rules. Froth and blather is what the punters want.
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October 3, 2008 10:33pm
Redbaiter

“To be fair, I think that I have a lot more reason to believe that.”

Well, of course you would say that. However whether its fair or not is actually a subjective matter.
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October 3, 2008 10:36pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Exactly.

An angry, ineffectual saddo. Probably got short man syndrome.

Has yet to realiase that he has got two ears and one mouth, and should use them in that ratio.

Froth and blather is a spot on description, and no-one is allowed a say when RB speaketh.

Reminds me of the crazed bigots in NI. On both sides of the troubles.
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October 3, 2008 10:39pm
Redbaiter

“Jesus RRM, you’re way too sane for here.”

I struggled thru his tiresome and infantile epic on the debate expecting to read something on Biden. There was nothing. I guess that sums up the impression Joe made. Or maybe its just a measure of RRM’s obsession with Sarah.
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October 3, 2008 10:39pm
tom hunter

(with all his predictions of when clinton would rise up and strike obama down..remember all them..?..heh heh..!..)

Not that I want to encourage Philu to post here more often but really – if he’s going to continue writing the same brain dead, cut-n-paste comments about KIA’s predictions re Hillary vs. Obama I’m going to keep cutting and pasting the same comments from KIA from May 2007:

<blockquote
Clinton’s negatives are so high that even senior party officials are questioning whether she can carry the nomination.
…………
If you look at the internals of various recent polls, Hillary’s problem is not just her rising negatives but the shrinking of her core support – that of single women and blacks. Bill’s charm has been insufficient to staunch the flow of these two groups to Obama – the former charmed by his youthful vigour (he is 15 years younger than Clinton) and the latter because he is black. Clinton will not go down without a fight but the trend of all polls for her has been ominous.
……..
Bill is still popular among Democrats and therein lies Hillary’s problem. Everytime they see her on stage she pales in comparison with him. He is warm – she is not; he was at heart a centrist who headed left at times to keep his base happy – she is a lefty at heart and is as centrist as she needs to be to get elected. He oozed charm and charisma – she has neither. Read the polls – her negatives keep rising and her base is ebbing away and that trend is occuring with no scandals swirling over her right now and her getting the usual positive coverage from her fawning fans in the mainstream media. The problem is the more democrat voters see her, the less they like her. Her tenancity and connections may yet win the day but her road to possible nomination will not be the foregone coronation she had anticipated.
………..
I believe the candidate they [Republicans] fear the most is Obama.
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October 3, 2008 10:43pm
Redbaiter

“An angry, ineffectual saddo.”

Hows the spittle? Running low yet???
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October 3, 2008 10:47pm
RRM

I apologise humbly for the many shortcomings in my report. As the full debate was carried on CNN it should be widely available to anyone who wishes to draw their own conclusions. (Unless you think “the MSM” is corrupt and not to be trusted, in which case, please yourself.)

In my defence I would admit that I was a bit pissed by the end – the result of using pints of Erdinger Wheat Beer to play the Sarah Palin Debate drinking game.
“Hockey moms” = Drink.
“Raise taxes” = Drink.
“PTA” = Drink.
“Hilary Clinton” = Drink.
“Vietnam” = Drink.
“Abraham Lincoln” = Drink.
“Thanks but no thanks” = Drain your Vessels.
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October 3, 2008 10:49pm
lloydois

I’ve read plenty on Biden actually. Everyone was obsessing on how Palin would do, she exceeded expectations nothing more or less. Not only was there no debate but Sarah Palin was not required actually to answer any of the questions put to her, and she announced before she began that she was just going to throw up on us all the talking points that she had binged on in Arizona for the past few days.

She mugged for the camera, winked like a bar fly, and just went on talking and talking and talking, oblivious to whatever anyone else said. Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill’s questions,she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said. When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.
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October 3, 2008 10:52pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Perhaps RB you should look up the definition of “Contributor”

I am writing this with a huge grin!

SMS was reasonably accurate then?
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October 3, 2008 10:54pm
Redbaiter

Iloydois- why would you think opinions on Sarah Palin from a bigoted leftist ignoramus like you would be worth writing here?? What on earth would possess you to put the time into such worthless shit?? Who do you think is interested? Who are you trying to impress? Leftists are always so insane.
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October 3, 2008 11:00pm
lloydois

The Republicans have tried to present the negative reaction to Ms. Palin as a matter of liberal elites sneering at someone who does not share their privileged backgrounds. That is a distraction. The problem with Ms. Palin’s candidacy, which she underscored in her appearance at the debate on Thursday night, is not that she didn’t attend a fancy school or go backpacking in Europe after college.

It is her disdain for knowledge, education, experience and contemplative leadership

The big news is that McCain Campaign has given up on Michigan.

Yee ha.
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October 3, 2008 11:00pm
tom hunter

As far as the debate is concerned I find myself reaching the same conclusions as I did with the first Obama-McCain debate. Young, inexperienced poli. stands next to old, experienced poli. – and does just fine.

Combine that with low expectations, Reagan style friendliness and you have a win for Palin.

Having said that Biden spent most of his time going after McCain, which is what the Veep is there for, and did not allow himself to get distracted. Had he really gone after Palin that would have been interesting.

She, on the other hand, had to spend most of her time building her public persona back up so did not have the time to go after Obama. Less a debate than two separate interviews.
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October 3, 2008 11:03pm
RRM

“I struggled thru his tiresome and infantile epic on the debate expecting to read something on Biden. There was nothing. I guess that sums up the impression Joe made.”

It’s true – Joe Biden (I keep thinking his name is Larry not Joe for some reason) was clearly an old pro and knew exactly how to work a crowd, but he certainly didn’t shut Palin down or rip into her like I expected. he calmly just said his thing, and over the course of each oily-smooth two minutes of his speech you would watch the worms slowly buty steadily rise to the top of their +ve tracks. He spent more time criticising McCain’s record than I expected, given that both were clearly at great pains to focus on what good they were going to do, and minimise recriminations or blame about the past.

I think he trusted that She-One-Who-Thinks-Men-&-Dinosaurs-walked-together-6,000-years-ago would put her foot in her own mouth quite nicely. He wasn’t wrong, although she has such the gift of the gab that she could always carry right on oblivious to the fact that her tangent about the Surge in I-rark didn’t really answer the question of whether a “nucular” armed Iran would be more or less dangerous than an instable Pakistan.

They both acknowledged climate change is real. Biden was of the view that it is clarly brought about by human activity, whereas Palin granted that humans no doubt played a part but that there wasn’t enough knowledge about it to, like, do anything or bother worrying about it.
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October 3, 2008 11:06pm
Redbaiter

For fucks sake.. why do I encourage these maroons???
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October 3, 2008 11:10pm
RRM

It’s ‘Moron.” You maroon.

I don’t know why you do it either. Wouldn’t you rather go to bed in a good mood?
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October 3, 2008 11:12pm
tom hunter

She mugged for the camera, winked like a bar fly, and just went on talking and talking and talking, oblivious to whatever anyone else said.

You’ve seen Biden questioning witnesses in the Senate then?

Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill’s questions,

Sounds like a politician. Who knew?

she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said.

Always a wise move. Puts her in the same camp as most Democrat voters in the primaries.

When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.

So you cried along with Eliot when ET died?
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October 3, 2008 11:13pm
Eisenhower

I must say Key looked very much the quintessential down-to-earth Kiwi hubby and yet Prime Ministerial at the same time on Close Up tonight.

At least another 3 poll ratings IMO.
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October 3, 2008 11:27pm
tom hunter

The Republicans have tried to present the negative reaction to Ms. Palin as a matter of liberal elites sneering at someone who does not share their privileged backgrounds.

Less a presentation than a clear-eyed observation that all but the most one-eyed partisans made – and a good part of the reason for her initial burst of popularity. Here’s a quote from TalkLeft a couple of weeks ago before the Obama campaign – if not its most unhinged devotees – learned their lesson:

She did not accept the premise of the question (5.00 / 8) (#31)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:40:41 PM EST

Which is what smart politicans do.
For eff;s sake, are you all pretending you have never seen a politician ignore the question asked and then give the answer they want to give?
Are all of you really this unhinged now?
Incredible. You guys are killing Obama with this craziness.

That is a distraction.

It certainly was for the Obama campaign for about three weeks. I cannot recall any Presidential campaign (or candidate) going so totally off the rails over the opposition’s VP pick. But then it simply added to the suspicions that for all the “momentum” of Obama his campaign is really quite brittle.
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October 3, 2008 11:30pm
noskire

Is it just me, or does Sarah Palin remind you of Peggy off King of the Hill?
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October 3, 2008 11:46pm
Glutaemus Maximus

From the ‘Telegraph’

A curious look at how Westminster deals with scandal. More of the same but different.

“But Mr Brown’s decision to appoint Mr Mandelson’s return as Business Secretary could be a risky move, given the latter’s history of highly damaging scandals.
He quit as Trade Secretary in December 1998 after it emerged that he had failed to declare an interest-free loan from Geoffrey Robinson, a millionaire Labour MP whose business dealings were being investigated by his department.
And in January 2001 he was sacked by Mr Blair after it was suggested he had put pressure on a Home Office minister to give British citizenship to Srichand Hinduja, an Indian businessman who had sponsored the Millennium Dome. The allegations were later disproved.”
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October 3, 2008 11:57pm
philu

no..palin is the mad mother on malcom in the middle..

(she has that same manic cheerfulness..in the face of adversity..)

..and mccain is hank hills’ father..

..they both look alike..and walk/waddle/wave/talk the same way..

..and are both very short grumpy old men..

..with trophy wives..

..but the stat about mccain that most impresses me..

..is that before he was shot down..(while bombing vietnamese civilians..)

..he had crashed five different planes/times..

..now..isn’t that a lot..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 4, 2008 12:08am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Sky news has an interesting breaking story on Obama:
Obama. An ‘Insensitive Star’.

Best quote in the article on Obama from the British Ambassador in Washington to Gordon Brown:
“The main impression is of someone who was finding their feet, and then got diverted by his Presidential ambition.”
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October 4, 2008 2:26am
kiwi in america

I repeat what I said earlier – VP debates rarely influence the race. However Palin is not an ordinary VP choice – she electrified the race and thus the liberals and their media water carriers went into attack overdrive. The significant takeaway from this debate is that Palin was able to connect directly to voters over the heads of the Gibsons, Courics and Iflils of this world. Remember that Reagan was villified by the left through the 1980 campaign as old, out of touch, a two bit B grade movie actor and a war mongering right wing nutter. Prior to the debates the media were able to keep that narrative going and the debates (even more back then as there was no right wing media to balance the MSM) enabled him to talk direct to the American people. What they saw was a reflection of their heartlaned values and they swept Carter out of office.

This is what many in NZ and other left leaning watchers globally and the Manhatten media elites entirely miss every time (much to the GOPs electoral advantage). They don’t live with, associate with or understand middle America, fly over country or ‘Joe 6 pack’. It is almost impossible to describe the reaction of mainstream a-political Americans I meet to Palin. Overwhelmingly the comment is “she’s one of us”. To the chattering classes her failure to rattle off the prestigious journals they read in an interview is a hanging offence. Her in-your-face choice for life by carrying Trig to term destroys the left’s carefully crafted image of the pro-life movement as out-of-touch old white Christian men. To the beltway elites her attendence at a B grade college in Idaho vs their ivy league graduate degrees instantly makes her a hick and so her hunting and other down home qualities all lead to a glorified trailer trash sneering. But outside the NY-Washington corridor, there are millions of voters who see exactly the game that is played. They know the editors at CBS and NBC did their best to cut and paste the interviews for maximum anti-Palin effect. They see Obama and Biden getting the kids glove treatment vs Palin. They know that had Palin said that Roosevelt went on TV in 1929 to calm nerves as Biden did that there would’ve been a front page feeding frenzy lasting for days. They see Obama and the major networks sending hacks to Alaska to interview the unhappy victims of her cleaning house up there while they see Obama’s Chicago political machine threatening radio stations with investigations and legal action if they dare run ads opposing the annointed One or the Obama campaign helping the University of IL stonewall noted journalist Stanley Kurtz’s attempts to expose Obama’s true association with unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers through their joint efforts at the Annenberg Challenge. Were McCain to have such an association you can guarantee media researchers would be crawling all over those files reading every minute of every meeting these two men attended together breathlessly reporting on the front page any and every association. Their revenge for such unhanded tactics is their vote knowing that for every left leaning coulumnist and reporter there are 20 heartland inhabitants thoroughly disgusted at the advocacy that now passes for journalism.

If your political orientation is to the left then these slights, these biases, these blatant lopsided treatments dont matter because they are hardly seen. Left leaning commentators exist in an echo chamber of their own enlightened circles whose job it is to protect the rudder of power from hapless fools like they see Palin. And yet in election after election the people of America shock these elites and actually ignore them and vote from their heart. Palin is far from the perfect candidate and still remains a risky pick for McCain but last night we saw why he took the risk. The one thing that this debate performance will do is switch the left’s attacks from “conservatives want her off the ticket” and “what a hopeless interview she had” back to the dumpster diving and You Tube clips of some visiting African preacher praying at her church.

Hayden
The Wright controversy had died down by the latter part of the primaries and yet Obama still underperformed. The tanking economy has helped Obama but his hands off stay above the fray approach is contrasting with McCain ability to get into the trenches. Before he suspended his campaign only 4 GOP House mmbers were on the record as supporting the bailout and he helped get over 60 to vote. The Dems control the House so Pelosi should’ve been able to easily pass that package with 60+ GOP votes to add to her majority.

Tom Hunter
Thanks for fisking philu – he seems obsessed about this “Clinton will win the nomination” prediction thing. Note he never rebuts with facts, just sweeping snide assertions. In his world, Clark will win with an increased majority.

Llyoidois
The GOP hasn’t won Michigan since Reagan so its hardly earthshattering news that McCain chose to conserve campaign resources and stick to the known battleground states. Of course I never heard a peep from you when Obama abandoned his much trumpeted 50 state strategy (after wasting $25m advertising in GA, ND, MT and WY) in favour of… the same battleground states that they’ve always chased.
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October 4, 2008 3:57am
noskire

Of course the fact that McCain was a POW for six years evades your recollection of stats, doesn’t it, philu?

Really, your “trophy wives” comment says it all about you, the sad and pathetic lonely boy that you are. Bitter and twisted at what you could have been, and afflicted with a horrible addiction to fucking up flowing prose with “..”

You really are fucked in the head, but not because you were the scrawny little cunt who was always the last to be picked for team sports.

And not because your drunken, wife-beating father bailed when you couldn’t yet wipe your own ass.

You have chosen to be fucked in the head, with all the screaming totalitarian sympathy and welfare payments it brings you. Labour love “fuck-ups” like you. You kept them in power.
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October 4, 2008 4:23am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

noskire says at 4:23 am

Labour love “fuck-ups”

That’s their base. 😀
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October 4, 2008 5:57am
Glutaemus Maximus

And this comment from the BBC online:

“The British ambassador to Washington has described US presidential hopeful Barack Obama as “highly intelligent” but at times “aloof”, reports say.
Sir Nigel Sheinwald also said Mr Obama was untested and if elected would “have less of a track record than any recent president”, the Daily Telegraph said.”

I really wanted Obama to beat Clinton.

In the long haul to the White House, his biggest problem is that he a Black man, and seemingly very shallow.

My Catalan Friends reckon that there is a more than 30% chance of assasination if elected.
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October 4, 2008 6:02am
Glutaemus Maximus

Mandy Mandelson back in power. So was he GB’s best bf ever?

I feel sick.
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October 4, 2008 6:04am
Glutaemus Maximus

More on the Socialist Cabinet Shuffle in the UK

“Excellent. Peter Mandelson will add a much needed air of financial probity with Margaret Beckett adding a touch of charm and glamour.

That should do the trick….”

Conservative are 22 points ahead in the Rogue Polls.

The most re-viled politician in Europe has just entered the building, and has also been granted a peerage. Unelected, having been disgraced at least twice, and yet appears to have some big leverage on McStalin.

Hmmm. We are seeing similarities, aren’t we?
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October 4, 2008 6:12am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Ssshh Fran, don’t scare the horses:
Fran O’Sullivan: Memo to John Key – Everything’s not okay

No politician will save New Zealand if the international economy really turns to custard “depression style”. New Zealand is in a more precarious position than most Western economies. But the people of New Zealand voted to make it that way when they voted for Labour in 2005. A bit late to complain now that your hungry and can’t buy food.

Best to sit back and enjoy a good long recession. It’s what you asked for so why are people surprised that that is exactly what they have got?
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October 4, 2008 6:17am
lloydois

If intrade this morning is any indicator then it’s all over despite what joe 6 pack thinks of Sarah. Obama is 40 points clear, even Florida is surging Obama. It’s a GOP meltdown.
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October 4, 2008 9:06am
Glutaemus Maximus

IIoydois

You must be reading a different poll of polls to me. There is still only 6 points in it.

Sure Obama may win. I wouldn’t write McCain off yet.

Even with MMP, it looks like it is all over here!

Benneydale is turning blue as we speak, and its an AXIS meltdown!
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October 4, 2008 9:20am
tom hunter

Careful KIA.

You keep putting forward that sort of detailed explanation and reasoning on American voters and why McCain still has a shot at this and you’ll reduce the Obama glee club here to jumping up and down like little boys yelling “You’re losing! You’re losing!”.

Oh wait….

If intrade this morning…..

Funny how the same people who routinely decry open marketplaces as nothing but the madness of crowds so often wind up citing Intrade on this election.

Probably Enron investors.
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October 4, 2008 9:46am
kiwi in america

Lloydois
Obama leads by a mere 3 points (pretty much the margin of error) in the battleground states poll average, down from 5 a few days ago showing that McCain has some momentum his way. Of course you ignore the fact that the RCP averages are weighted by old media polls that usually oversample Dems by 10 points or more. You also ignore the evidence that Obama underperformed in 13 of the last 14 primaries by an average of 3% vs the poll averages in each state on the eve of each primary vote. With the bailout package signed and markets calming, the extreme economic tailwind favouring Obama has abated a little. And that’s before you factor in Palin’s debate performance.

So yea go ahead and cite the Intrades and a few state polls taken at the height of the market meltdown and keep thinking Obama’s got this one in the bag. Palin beat out 3 term Gov Mukowski in the 06 Gubanatorial primary and then beat 2 term former Gov Knowles despite being outspent 3-1 by both opponents. Romney and Huckabee forced McCain into an embarrassing 3rd place in Iowa and Romney outpsent McCain 6 – 1 and look who won the nomination. The meltdown you hope for is nothing but the left’s wet dream – and it will stay just that – a dream.
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October 4, 2008 9:49am
jafapete

KIA, You can delude yourself about “the Surge” for Obama as much as you like, but… let’s take a look at Rasmussen, an accurate pollster who consistently favours the Republican side. Today’s Rasmussen Reports: Obama 7 points ahead on the daily tracking poll. And the latest state polls: “Obama takes lead in Nevada”, “Washington: Obama pulls ahead by ten”, “New Hampshire: Obama opens ten point lead.”

Sure, a month is a very long time in politics, and Obama could still lose. But the point is, it’s going to take a really big October surprise to get McCain back in the running. I can’t see Obama stumbling in the remaining debates, but I can see him needling McCain enough to get the old goat blowing his stack. I can also see the financial crisis continuing to overshadow everything, and I can’t see any good news on that front. Did someone mention Troopergate? Most importantly, most voters are pretty decided now, and the independents are making up their minds (in Obama’s favour). Obama supporters are more enthusiastic than McCain’s, and McCain is badly out-organised on the ground. He’s limited in how much he can spend. He’s now on the defensive, having just withdrawn from Michigan.

I’m amazed that you can be at all optimistic.
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October 4, 2008 10:32am
philu

“..# noskire (55) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 4th, 2008 at 4:23 am

Of course the fact that McCain was a POW for six years evades your recollection of stats, doesn’t it, philu?..”

are we allowed to mention the allegations of collaboration with his captors..?

..and of his record since then of suppressing evidence on the prisoners ‘left behind’..?

..(i have stories/links on both at whoar..)

“..Really, your “trophy wives” comment says it all about you, the sad and pathetic lonely boy that you are..”

um..!..aside from the fact one is a cartoon character..what exactly is your definition of the term ‘trophy wife’..?

..it must differ from mine..

“..Bitter and twisted at what you could have been..”

um..!.no..(but thanks for the implied compliment…eh..?..)

“..and afflicted with a horrible addiction to fucking up flowing prose with “.

and..once again..(your punctuation quibble to one side)..thanks for the description of my doodlings/ramblings as ‘flowing prose’..

(blush..!..)

“..You really are fucked in the head, but not because you were the scrawny little cunt who was always the last to be picked for team sports..”

there is some truth in that..(myopia/disinterest..)..but running was my ‘go’..

“..And not because your drunken, wife-beating father bailed when you couldn’t yet wipe your own ass..”

aside from the illumination of showing what piece of shit you are..that is factually incorrect..

“..You have chosen to be fucked in the head, with all the screaming totalitarian sympathy and welfare payments it brings you..”

um..!..i’ve read this back and forth..up and down..and it just dosen’t make any sene..it is a nonsense..

..and..what exactly is ‘screaming totalitarian sympathy’..?..(inquiring minds want to know..)

“..Labour love “fuck-ups” like you..”

you have obviously ignored mymany critiques on the failures of clark/labour over the last three + years of whoar..

..(and you must stop relying on that fox news..eh..?)

“..You kept them in power..”

i have voted green since there was green..

(there you go then..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 4, 2008 10:45am
PhilBest

And before there was Green, or if there wasn’t a Green…..?

“NZ Communist Party” would be the natural home for Keith and Sue and you and your fellow travellers, philu……..

But there is a slight difference with the Commies of the past, they weren’t so favourable towards kinky sexual practices……
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October 4, 2008 11:26am
kiwi in america

jafapete
Its clear you didn’t read my post.
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October 4, 2008 3:50pm
DJP6-25

kiwi in america. Your first post was spot on. You should do this for a living.
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October 5, 2008 8:18am

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