General Debate 13 January 2009

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expat

Any employers out there give this credence?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10551657

Economy keeps sliding – one third of NZ firms to lay off staff
10:08AM Tuesday Jan 13, 200
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January 13, 2009 10:43am
CraigM

Until last week, Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama’s pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group’s Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for “global governance” and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/

The global economic crisis has shrunk more than a few economies I’d say.

Socialists for global governance 1 – Free World nil
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January 13, 2009 11:55am
CraigM

Expat – Times are tough & the competition is retrenching, so I’m hiring sales staff at the moment. Can’t afford not to. There is market share to be won.

I wait with interest to see what calibre of staff we attract.
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January 13, 2009 11:59am
TimG_Oz

Just saw the funniest anti israel blog comment yesterday on the Herald Sun website in Melbourne. Essentially it said “Boycott Israeli Companies. Use Google to find out how”

[for those that don’t know, Google has a strong Israeli presence, and both Sergey Brin and Larry Page are Jewish by birth]

As well as Google, Microsoft and Intel develop a large amount of software and chips respectively in Israel.

John Minto must be heeding the ban … looks like he has been off the internet and not using his imperialist dog computer!
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January 13, 2009 12:00pm
Redbaiter

Radar detectors to be banned.

Stephen Joyce had the balls to speak out for the Exclusive Brethren’s right to criticise the government. About time he took a stand against the Safety Nazis in the Road Transport Ministry. Do not let these fascist bastards lead you by the nose Mr. Joyce. These scum are one of the biggest threats to individual freedom that exist in NZ. Be a man. Be a free man. Stand against these desk driving bureaucratic anti freedom scum, who use their assumed warrant for our safety on the roads to enact an unending series of assaults on the concept of freedom and individual responsibility.

Its time to shrink this Ministry and call it to account for its ill mannered badgering of New Zealanders. The Ministry are public servants. Make sure they understand this, and ensure they conduct there business with the NZ public in a courteous and helpful manner. There so called “public good” print advertisements and television commercials, their road side signs, their road blocks and the general disrespect they show for New Zealanders and individual rights and freedoms is a disgrace and should not be tolerated in a free country. If they don’t tone down their rhetoric and their approach then fire them and give the money they suck up back to those who have earned it. It is doubtful that these arrogant jack booted parasites achieve any real results in lowering the road toll anyway.
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January 13, 2009 12:07pm
Viking2

Yep, actually for us times were tougher last winter when no one knew what to expect. Expanding our coverage, advertizing some more and expect to make a lot more bottom line. Been too lazy but got to get to work, tough times never last but tough people do.
Probably add staff.
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January 13, 2009 12:09pm
Redbaiter

Good posts Expat and CraigM. Too many have been living off the efforts of too few for too long. And now that the shit has finally hit the fan, what do the dumbfuck Americans, hoodwinked by a totally corrupt mainstream media do, but give power to those possessed of the very destructive mindset that caused the collapse.

The stupid socialist Obama and his dumbfuck commie cronies (like Browner) will ensure only one thing, and that is that the pain is much more intense and long lasting than it has to be.

I see where Socialist International have been flat out like lizards drinking wiping all the commie shit off their site pertaining to this crook Brown. Won’t change the truth. Brown is just a socialist thug, as are most of those allied with Socialist International. Klark and her corrupt shenanigans in this country just proved that well enough.
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January 13, 2009 12:15pm
Tauhei Notts

Hey Redbaiter,
What happened in the eight minutes to 12.15?
You went from totally brilliant to a bit silly.
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January 13, 2009 12:33pm
goodgod

Concert FM is right now running an anti-israeli propaganda piece in the form of a fictional story where the muslim characters are portrayed as easy going liberals and their ungracious guest, an israeli, as a religious extremist.

the stilted dialogue is laughable.

it’s probably been written by a university indoctrinated NZder.
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January 13, 2009 12:42pm
adamsmith1922

I see the Holy Tagger has been written up again in the DomPost, but story not on line. Apparently the Catholic Church do not think he should be disciplined for his action in defiling the Rabin memorial.

If anyone is interested I have commented

http://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/12566/
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January 13, 2009 12:51pm
Redbaiter

“You went from totally brilliant to a bit silly.”

Wonderful critique Tauhei. With facts like those, how could I possibly argue?? Why don’t you just tell me what it is you don’t agree with?

Here’s the thrust of what I said. Obama is a socialist and will do what socialists do. This is the exact opposite path to which the world and the US and NZ and most other western democracies need to take if they want to improve the situation. Socialism, with its cronyism and its corruption and its economic waste and desolation of the human spirit, brought us to the abyss. More socialism is not going to allow us to climb out. Here’s what will. Very very very small government and allowing people to keep the money they earn, a solution that is unacceptable to socialists and their doctrine.

No politician who is a member of Socialist International has the intelligence, the skills or the knowledge to save any country from any economic crisis, and Carol Browner, with her power obsessed mindset, would be one of the most stand out examples of this. Helen Klark was another. Now, anything to say to rebut these opinions?
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January 13, 2009 1:01pm
Ratbiter

goodgod –

I admire your good musical taste in listening to ConcertFM. But:

(1) If you cannot listen to a story because the author has not written the characters the way YOU think they should be, you are going to be limiting yourself to a very, VERY insular little reading-list for the rest of your life.

(2) If you cannot accept that some Muslims somewhere might not conform to your prejudices, well, you are just quite distasteful.

(3) If you see a vast anti-Semitic conspiracy everywhere, even in random works of fiction, you really really need to get a life!
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January 13, 2009 1:06pm
goodgod

Ratbiter –

I admire your good musical taste in listening to ConcertFM. But:

(1) If you cannot listen to a story because the author has not written the characters the way YOU think they should be, you are going to be limiting yourself to a very, VERY insular little reading-list for the rest of your life.

(2) If you cannot accept that some Israelis somewhere might not conform to your prejudices, well, you are just quite distasteful.

(3) If you see a vast anti-muslim conspiracy everywhere, even in random works of fiction, you really really need to get a life!

😉
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January 13, 2009 1:08pm
Ratbiter

goodgod-

I am not the one who is complaining about a story portraying Israelis and Muslims in a way that I think is “wrong”!
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January 13, 2009 1:10pm
goodgod

ratbiter-

I am not the one who is complaining about a story portraying Israelis and Muslims in a way that I think is “wrong”!

😉
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January 13, 2009 1:11pm
Ratbiter

I’m sorry, but when I read your 12:42pm, it looks like you are!
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January 13, 2009 1:13pm
goodgod

Perhaps you can’t see past your own prejudice?
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January 13, 2009 1:14pm
Ratbiter

Well then, why else is it “an anti-Israeli propaganda piece”?

The main reason you’ve cited is that the author has dared to have Muslim characters who are “easy going” and dared to have an Israeli character who is some sort of religious extremist. As though in your eyes these are completely false and impossible, and hence it must be a piece of propaganda.
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January 13, 2009 1:19pm
kiwipolemicist

Redbaiter: I am in general agreement with your first post. Police checkpoints are a gross breach of civil liberties, along with the many other regulations entailed in driving. Only when driving is a person who has not been arrested required to provide ID to the statist thugs in blue.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/police-checkpoints-breach-the-civil-liberties-of-the-many-to-catch-the-few/

It’s worse in the USa, where they’ve started puttng military police at highway checkpoints. Just for obsevation and for dealing with military personnel, of course.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/military-police-on-the-highways-of-america-part-1/
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January 13, 2009 1:33pm
AG

“Only when driving is a person who has not been arrested required to provide ID to the statist thugs in blue.”

Umm – no. What about when carrying a fire-arm? Or when fishing in fresh water?

Of course, we could just have a rule saying “anyone can drive, it’s only when you commit an offence that you can be stopped” … but the consequences of being in charge of several hundred kilos of metal that can travel at high speed without having proven a basic level of competence is rather high.
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January 13, 2009 1:38pm
Ratbiter

AG – but hey, at least those people who I just ran over have the comfort of knowing that I ran them over in an environment of freedom and liberty, eh?
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January 13, 2009 1:42pm
AG

Give me liberty and give me death! The revolution is born in the blood of martyrs …
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January 13, 2009 1:45pm
getstaffed

Ratbiter – When media have a choice of content – i.e. the ConcertFM drama… which let’s face it could have been replaced with any piffle – then it’s reasonable to assume that the ConcertFM producer is making a political statement. In this case, like the majority of the news media, it’s an anti-Israeli message. I call that propaganda.
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January 13, 2009 1:51pm
AG

“When media have a choice of content – i.e. the ConcertFM drama… which let’s face it could have been replaced with any piffle – then it’s reasonable to assume that the ConcertFM producer is making a political statement.”

Ergo, ANYTHING that the producer puts on the radio is a political statement. A decision to put “piffle” on in place of the play equally would have been a political statement, as it represents a rejection of that particular play (and hence any “message” it contains). So your objection rather disappears into an endless regression.

Of course, if you have indisputable proof that the majority of media messages really are “anti-Israeli” – as opposed to reflecting the brute fact that in the present conflict something like 80 Palestinians are killed for every Israeli – then you might have a valid point. But you seem to be extrapolating from the fact the media say things you don’t like hearing to find a conspiracy.
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January 13, 2009 1:58pm
big bruv

Proof that Cantabs are sick.

Canterbury mum ‘blessed’ with two-headed baby
New 8:53AM Tuesday Jan 13, 2009

A Cantabrian mum is preparing to give birth to Siamese twins with two heads but just one body.

Lisa Chamberlain, 25, says she feels “blessed” to be pregnant with the twins and on the brink of making New Zealand medical history if they are born alive.

She and her brother Mike Chamberlain were told by doctors that the twins had a 20 per cent chance of surviving but decided not to abort the twins because they were a gift from God.

“Some North Island people might look at me and say, ‘You’re going to give birth to a freak’ – but I don’t care because I feel blessed,” Chamberlain told The Herald newspaper.

“To me, my twins are a gift from God and we’re determined to give them their chance of life.”

After Chamberlain, 25, underwent a scan last week, doctors were stunned to discover she was carrying conjoined babies with two heads attached to one body with one heart.

The babies are known as dicephalous twins, the rarest known type of Siamese twins.

Chamberlain discovered she was pregnant in December after being told for years she probably would never have children because she had poly cystic ovaries.
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January 13, 2009 2:57pm
MT_Tinman

AG “but the consequences of being in charge of several hundred kilos of metal that can travel at high speed without having proven a basic level of competence is rather high.”

Since when have motor vehicle drivers in NZ had to prove any level of competence before taking the road?

Evidence suggests the exact reverse is true.

What have the storm-trooper cowboys bullying antics got to do with this?
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January 13, 2009 3:00pm
bearhunter

“Lisa Chamberlain, 25, says she feels “blessed” to be pregnant with the twins and on the brink of making New Zealand medical history if they are born alive.

She and her brother Mike Chamberlain were told by doctors that the twins had a 20 per cent chance of surviving but decided not to abort the twins because they were a gift from God.”

She and her BROTHER???? I hear banjos again…
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January 13, 2009 3:04pm
AG

“Since when have motor vehicle drivers in NZ had to prove any level of competence before taking the road?
Evidence suggests the exact reverse is true”

Exactly what “evidence” are you referring to, aside from anecdotal observation? And if you genuinely think that incompetent drivers currently are gaining licenses, then isn’t that an argument for having tighter restrictions, not looser ones? Or do you seriously think that allowing people to drive without any form of licensing would be as safe or safer than the current rules? If not, just how many other people’s lives are you prepared to sacrifice for your beliefs?

“What have the storm-trooper cowboys bullying antics got to do with this?”

Simple. The law requires you to be licensed to drive. I think this is a good thing. The police have the right to stop you and demand you present your license to show compliance with the law. I think this is a perfectly justified requirement.
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January 13, 2009 3:08pm
MyNameIsJack

big bruv (2236) Vote: 0 0 Says:

January 13th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Proof that Cantabs are sick.

Canterbury mum ‘blessed’ with two-headed baby
New 8:53AM Tuesday Jan 13, 2009

A Cantabrian mum is preparing to give birth to Siamese twins with two heads but just one body.

Lisa Chamberlain, 25, says she feels “blessed” to be pregnant with the twins and on the brink of making New Zealand medical history if they are born alive.

>>>>>>>>>>

Nothing to do with being cantabrian.

Everything to do with letting religion get in the way of reason.
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January 13, 2009 3:17pm
big bruv

Its everything to do with being Cantabrian, sadly the practice of marrying your sister is common down that way.

One only has to look at the number of complete idiots that province produces to see that there is something desperately wrong.
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January 13, 2009 3:23pm
MyNameIsJack

big bruv, religious stupidity knows no geograpical bounds.
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January 13, 2009 3:26pm
big bruv

Come on Jack, nowhere else in NZ does this happen, some of the very worst examples of this inbreeding went on to coach and captain the All Blacks.
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January 13, 2009 3:35pm
MyNameIsJack

What’s an all black?
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January 13, 2009 3:39pm
Rex Widerstrom

AG:

The police have the right to stop you and demand you present your license to show compliance with the law.

They had that right in South Africa once, too. The only difference being that they could do it when you were on foot as well. But give them time, the NZ Police are only one step away from demanding that right, all in the interests of “anti terrorism” and “fighting crime” you understand.

There’s a fairly well-acknowledged precept of “innocent till proven guilty” which is being steadily eroded by government agencies, who lead stupid lawmakers by the nose.

It’s a disease which equally affects the “left” and “right” parties in NZ (and I’m pleased to see Anita at Kiwipolitico acknowledging that, as DPF mentions in another post) and it needs not only to be stopped but turned back.

As Rebbaiter pointed out (@ 12.07) they now want to ban radar detectors. In WA they arrested a young man who stood by the side of the road with a sign saying “speed camera ahead”. But the effect of both these things is to slow traffic down – the same aim as is claimed for traffic enforcement operations.

When their guard slips on issues like that, their real agenda is exposed – and it’s one of control.
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January 13, 2009 3:43pm
beanee

Sigh – unfortunately its not confined to Canterbury:

BOP baby ‘Zealand-New’ welcomed into the world
New 1:14PM Tuesday Jan 13, 2009

A Bay of Plenty baby will always know where she comes from regardless of where she travels in the future.

The baby girl who was born at Tauranga Hospital on January 11 has been given the name Zealand-New by her grandmother Sharron Te Moni, the Bay of Plenty Times reported.

“I was fiddling around and it was something different to say it back to front,” Ms Te Moni said.

The little girl’s full name is Zealand-New Sharron Phyllis Atareta Davoren.

Her mother, Tomicina Davoren and her father Mana Te Moni from Merivale in the Western Bay said they had never heard anybody being called that name.

“It is unusual to name your child that,” Ms Davoren said.

Zealand-New is the couple’s fourth child. The others are named Rlexuz Toara Chantz Te Moni, Mikaere Morgan Te Moni and Korizma-Lake Vonnita Manaaki Te Moni.

– NZPA
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January 13, 2009 3:45pm
dad4justice

I am convinced big bruv is a bitter woman, who got badly sun burnt one day in a Canterbury nor wester. What a nutter.
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January 13, 2009 3:52pm
Ratbiter

Did anyone see that doco on 20/20 a while ago, about a pair of Siamese twins in the States who were also effectively a two-headed girl, who were getting their Drivers’ licenses and finishing High School?

How much of a “blessing” it is probably depends upon what the word blessing means to you. But from what I saw of two American girls, and the way they lived, I think the world is definitely better off for having them around.

And at least they had sensible names…

(PS: Dad, I know we don’t see eye to eye on many things, but I promise you I’m right behind you on that last particular score!)
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January 13, 2009 3:56pm
beanee

Those two seem pretty level headed (pardon the pun) – compare them to the two nutters that have been on various documentaries over the past couple of years.
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January 13, 2009 3:59pm
wreck1080

We are going to be in recession until house prices start rising and thus people restart spending . Anyone see them rising this year? Unless the export sector takes off but who knows.

When does a recession become a depression?

Reserve bank is always 1 year behind the 8-ball… they are talking cuts of 50 to 100 points, but i don’t even see a 200 point cut taking the country out of the poo.
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January 13, 2009 4:00pm
AG

Rex

“They had that right in South Africa once, too. The only difference being that they could do it when you were on foot as well. But give them time, the NZ Police are only one step away from demanding that right, all in the interests of “anti terrorism” and “fighting crime” you understand.”

The problem with such “slippery slope” arguments is that they are too easy to make and prevent you from ever doing anything … “we should not let schools require that students wear uniforms or the next thing they’ll be demanding is that the students pledge oaths of loyalty and inform on their parents”; “we should not require pubs to refuse to serve drunk people or the next thing they’ll be required to do is refuse to serve Tongans”.

I think the argument for allowing police to randomly stop motorists for breath alcohol and licensing checks (of drivers only, mind) is much, much stronger than allowing random identity checks of all persons at any time. I agree that the latter is bad. But the former does not necessarily require the latter.
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January 13, 2009 4:01pm
MyNameIsJack

Ratbiter, please explain how “…the world is definitely better off for having them around”. What marks them out so we all bask in their glory?
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January 13, 2009 4:02pm
Ratbiter

Klezmer Rebs – playing tonight in the Botanic Gardens Soundshell as part of the Wellington Summer Season.

Come along if, like me, you’ve been smeared as an Anti-Semite recently and feel a need to prove you’re not 😉
Music should be good too…
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January 13, 2009 4:19pm
Ratbiter

MyNameIsJack – the general human decency, goodness and optimism they showed, even to a world that mostly saw them as freaks and often stared…
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January 13, 2009 4:55pm
Redbaiter

Good post Rex. Don’t tell me you’re coming around to the dark side.

The issue is this. We have conceded the Transport Dept the right to ensure our safety on the roads, and the path they have chosen is one of harsh laws, unfair penalities, gross attacks on civil liberties and in most cases they display a general contempt of drivers that no public servant should be permitted to indulge in in respect of any NZ citizen. The Road Safety section of the Transport dept is out of control and running amok. Stephen Joyce needs to reign it in.

As I said above, there is no evidence that the jackboot tactics of these self serving empire building beaurocrats is effective. Overseas, governments have adopted a much softer approach, refusing to run propagandising television commericals, refusing to harass drivers with deluges of messages and signage, and reducing the presence of road police.

Stephen Joyce has to curb the excesses of this dept. If he cared enough for the freedom of the Brethren, then he should care enough about this. The Transport Dept is out of control. Stephen Joyce needs to fix it, and not just be a public mouth piece for the self serving propaganda of these anti-freedom scum. Show some spine Mr Joyce. Tell these bastards at the Transport Ministry that they are public servants, not jumped up little Nazi dictators free to spit upon the NZ public as they wish.
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January 13, 2009 5:34pm
Ratbiter

Yeah! Fight for your freedoms on the roads.

If you crash into someone else and kill them because you were exercising your “right” to try and push through a tight windy bit at 160km/h, that’s really nobody’s business but your own. The people you killed really benefited from your freedom and rights. Who do those control freaks think they are, eh?
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January 13, 2009 5:41pm
Redbaiter

“If you crash into someone else.”

Why don’t you get an education you tiresome slow witted little bore. You’re not even arguing on the issue. (methods to make roads safe) In fact go somewhere else. With your multitudinous inanities on every thread you’re just a complete waste of bandwidth. And get an IQ upgrade before you come back. Then maybe you’ll be able to make comments that actually deal with the issue.
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January 13, 2009 5:52pm
Roger Douglas

While the proposed recession summit of top Ministers and officials is a good idea in principle, nothing at all will be achieved – and a great deal of harm could be inflicted – if Ministers do not face reality.

The danger is that, like Obama, the Government will decide to start throwing money around on all sorts of projects – from roads to alternative energy – and expand the budget deficit beyond where it stands today.

Given the contraction that has taken place in private credit – which will clearly be further reduced by the Government borrowing programme – the danger is that more and more activity will end up in Government hands rather than the private sector.

What is required is a programme along the lines of what I outlined on November 26, when I stated that Treasury had under-estimated the credit crunch and the consequences thereof.

I was right on that one, and I believe I was also right on the remedies – I hope the Government will listen this time.
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January 13, 2009 6:14pm
billyborker

Roger Douglas (3) Vote: 0 0 Says:

January 13th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
While the proposed recession summit of top Ministers and officials is a good idea in principle, nothing at all will be achieved – and a great deal of harm could be inflicted – if Ministers do not face reality.

The danger is that, like Obama,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Surely you meant to write “Like GW Shrub”.

Bush the minor has presided over the greatest expansion of government into the economy than any President since Roosevelt. Banks, financiers, car manufacturers – is there anythuing he won’t buy or bailout with the taxpayer dime?
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January 13, 2009 6:47pm
dime

what am i being made to buy???

why is it the taxpayer dime? why not the taxpayer bruv??? its always me paying for everyone else!
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January 13, 2009 6:54pm
Patrick Starr

Well dime, it couldn’t be the taxpayer borker as I seriously doubt he is one
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January 13, 2009 7:23pm
heathcote

Thanks for your post Roger.

Could you please provide a link to your proposals of Nov 26?
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January 13, 2009 8:33pm
bearhunter

Rex- they had the right in Northern Ireland too. it didin’t work out well.

Redbaiter – I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you entirely about the NZTA. These are the same hoors that claim all the credit when the “road toll” goes down but blame the rest of us when it goes up. Can we have performance-related pay for these gobshites? I’m almost willing to sacrifice myself to make sure they lose money.
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January 13, 2009 10:06pm
Roger Douglas

Here is the link to to my proposals of 26 November 2008.

http://www.act.org.nz/news/facing-the-financial-meltdown
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January 14, 2009 12:30pm

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