General Debate 13 January 2009

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Don the Kiwi

First up again !

I must be getting up too early. Working in Rotorua at the moment, so have to get on the road early.

I didn’t realise how slummy a lot of Rotorua has become, from when I lived there in the 70’s. The Mongrel Mob seem to have a pretty firm hold there as well. I guess that’s why drugs are a problem there.

I agree with a comment yesterday, that its time our Maori brethren tidied up their act in that regard and drop their endless complaints about the past.
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January 13, 2010 7:07am
dad4justice

The mental mungrel mob in Rotovegas like the smell of sulphur because they only wash themselves once a year.
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January 13, 2010 7:14am
Whafe

Other than the great mountain biking, Rotorua is a shit hole…. Not at all an area that one feels safe in when the sun goes down!
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January 13, 2010 8:04am
Murray

Drugs are not a problem in Rotorua Don. You can score any where any time.
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January 13, 2010 8:20am
Chicken Little

When is National going to reverse/repeal the ETS?

When will John and Nick explain how NZ businesses are going to compete with the vast majority of the world which doesn’t have have a carbon tax scheme? (ie- Oz, USA, China, India etc)

When (not if) the ETS is repealed, will National take back the 35,000 hectares of public land it bribed the Maori party and friends with to get them to support this dog? If not why not? and can I have 35,000 hectares to play with too?

How long will honest citizens sit by and allow these idiots to ruin our country?
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January 13, 2010 8:21am
Whafe

C Little = Dont hold your breath on John or Nick doing anything!

John has lost his direction, he is a classic dude whom loves all the strategy talk etc, but when it comes to execution, he is a cold fart, not even a cold fart warming up…

It saddens me to say that, but he doesnt have the balls to do any much needed changes…
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January 13, 2010 8:26am
jaba

I see the Chinese will own our sugar soon and the President of the Labour Party is upset the coal mine down south have purchased new flash 4wds for some staff .. It seems Mr Little, I think is a union pres as well (2 job Andrew), wants them to buy cheap shit. What is it about vehicles that get the left so upset (unless you mention the BMWs they bought) .. one of their MP’s was moaning about the new self drive cars the Nats got recently.
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January 13, 2010 8:32am
Darren

With the country borrowing $250 mil a week, who here thinks spending $100 mil (public money) on the RWC ‘Party Central’ (for private profits) is a good idea?

Just wondering:)
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January 13, 2010 8:40am
Manolo

“When is National going to reverse/repeal the ETS?”

Hell will freeze over first. Key, the empty suit, was conned by Smith and passed the ETS, so chances are the hands-off PM will be in no hurry to repeal it, regardless of its detrimental effect to our economy.

The same timid and spineless government which claims to be for private enterprise (you can almost hear the yeah right) is choking NZ with this bastardised law.
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January 13, 2010 8:57am
Whafe

Key has done to us what the last rugby world cup team did, got us all in behind, then choked!

Call me stupid, but I seriously thought Key had some balls, it shows openly now that he has none or very small ones….

Key & National, you had better start sorting your shit or else the people are going to shy away from you like a disease….. The polls at present show that nothing sticks to Key, will it change I wonder?
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January 13, 2010 9:29am
southtop

2010 is decision time for many on the RedNats.
If they continue to dick around following failed Helengrad policies then it may be interesting.
Even some of the complete and utter Nat party zealots [the ones that labour hate, yet are very similar to them in thier blinkered following of ideology] are beginning to question if any actual change is going to come.
What a shame Rodney has to now completely rebuild his image. If he hadn’t been so bloodly stupid he could have positioned himself as the leader of the opposition after the Akl city stuff is sorted.
Passing thought: maybe Key will hope for reflective glory from the Rugby World Cup for poll success in 2011?
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January 13, 2010 9:34am
RightNow

In Australia a farmer by the name of Peter Spencer is staging a hunger strike protest after the government made it illegal for him to clear regrowth on his own property. This effectively meant he couldn’t use his own land, and obviously it has no sale value. The government never compensated him (or other farmers) for their appropriation. The reason they did it? To meet their Kyoto obligations. They stole from private land owners to meet their Kyoto targets.
“The carbon stored in confiscated land amounts to about $10.7 billion in carbon credits. Probably the total value lost (with interest) from the productive use of that land would be many times higher.”

Spencer has up to 20 days left to live apparently.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/12/australias-retarded-rudd-government-about-to-claim-its-first-carbon-bureaucracy-victim/#more-15163
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January 13, 2010 9:56am
freethinker

Water Privatisation – shudder – legislation proposed needs the same kind of furore as S59 – Auckland metro Water was the warning – Key needs reminding his government is the representative not the master and his parties future must be very doubtful if this legislation passes given the horrific results worldwide of Water privatisation – costs much more, delivers less.
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January 13, 2010 10:05am
MeneerCronje

Sorry if I missed the memo – did the karma buttons disappear?
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January 13, 2010 10:18am
jaba

water, or lack of it, in other countries will be the reason for future wars. I’m into privatisation on many things .. water is not one of them.
It seems almost all contributors on blog sites are anti ETS/carbon trading .. Charlie Chavel an exception. Specking of Chuck, is he still on holiday. Before and during Carbonhagen, he wouldn’t shut up and now silence.
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January 13, 2010 10:22am
Ryan Sproull

Sorry if I missed the memo – did the karma buttons disappear?

They were attracting a lot of attention from anonymous immature wankers.

Also some hackers.
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January 13, 2010 10:23am
MeneerCronje

—They were attracting a lot of attention from anonymous immature wankers.
—Also some hackers.

That’s unlucky – it was really nice to see what others thought of my opinions. You would think it possible to restrict those buttons to logged in users with > 20 posts?
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January 13, 2010 10:33am
Whafe

Yes it has taken away a good many features, like the most recent posts etc etc…..

David, how long is this going to be down for? or is it like how long is a piece of string?
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January 13, 2010 10:44am
Jack5

New topic for a moment if I may…

The People’s Republic survives and rules in Christchurch under yesteryear-celebrity mayor “Sideshow Bob” Parker.

The city council has announced plans to sell its stake in a local bodies’ owned forests — at the bottom of forestry prices.
It will put some of the money into its broadband company, which duplicates fibre in competition with private telco providers, including Telecom and Telstra, which some Christchurch ratepayers will have shares in.

Christchurch City already has many businesses that compete with its ratepayers, notably contractors. These city owned businesses return an over-all return on investment that would not be acceptable to private enterprise.

The People’s Republic will undoubtedly use the power to rate citizens as security to borrow money for these ventures, which compete with the citizens’ businesses and citizens’ private sector jobs.

Whenever there are suggestions the council sell its subsidiaries that compete with the private sector the lefties shout “don’t sell the family silver”, but they will be all oohs and ahs when the city wants to sell a decent long-term asset like forests.

Socialism is more entrenched in NZ local bodies than it is nationally.
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January 13, 2010 11:00am
Sonny Blount

They were attracting a lot of attention from anonymous immature wankers.

I would suggest those that get upset about them are the immature wankers. No baby fur seals are killed because of karma scores.

It definitely creates a sense of interaction that you don’t get at other blogs. When you strongly agree or disagree you have some tiny input into a conversation and there was the possibility for an indication of the opinion of the majority of non posting readers.

On quiet afternoons others in our office have competitions for the most positive or negative karma on particular topics. And it creates a motivation to revisit a continuing conversation.

I would be saddened if DPF has succumbed to the droning elitist minority on the karma buttons.
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January 13, 2010 11:17am
MeneerCronje

Definitely agree on the value of interaction, but it’s sad when trolling becomes an office competition.
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January 13, 2010 11:22am
tristanb

Maybe Bob’s mates with someone who wants those forests, maybe his mate is running the council fibre company? I seem to vaguely remember some dodgy dealings he had with some bankrupt rich-prick about some central city property.
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January 13, 2010 11:23am
DJP6-25

MeneerCronje 10:18 Guess I missed that memo too. Lack of buttons takes some of the fun out of Kiwi Blog.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 13, 2010 11:50am
DJP6-25

Chicken Little 8:21 Probably another 70 years like they have already. That is unless the money finally starts running out. then watch the fertiliser hit the ventilation.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 13, 2010 11:56am
Sonny Blount

Definitely agree on the value of interaction, but it’s sad when trolling becomes an office competition.

Who says its trolling or insincere? Bit narrow minded there I think. I also tend to laugh rather than be offended at joke posts.
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January 13, 2010 12:14pm
stephen

I would suggest those that get upset about them are the immature wankers.

Nah-ah, only lefties get upset because um it stops them commenting.

Wrong door alright, Michaels. Notice how the lefties have swarmed into Kiwiblog with the karma buttons off.

The readers are in the position of people at a public political meeting who have been banned from clapping or booing, from commenting, from showing leftist agitators how they regard their leftist heckling.

😀 😀 😀
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January 13, 2010 1:45pm
Manolo

Absurd nanny-statism in New York City that would make even the NZ socialist Labour Party blush.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/12/war-unemployment-deficits-salt-new-york-mayor-wants-serving-reductions/?test=latestnews
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January 13, 2010 1:49pm
graham

“A Maori sovereignty group insists a Maori Traveller’s Permit is legitimate despite one of their members being arrested when he used it in Hamilton on Monday night.”

Read the full story at

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3227154/Post-Shop-accepted-Maori-ID
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January 13, 2010 1:57pm
wreck1080

I see 2009 was cooler than average.

I wonder why Niwa try to minimise this fact.

This is the main gist of Niwas statement…

“See-sawing temperatures characterised New Zealand’s weather in 2009”

So, instead of admitting 2009 was cooler than average, they try to switch the main point to the fact the weather was changeable.

It seems we may be in a trend of global cooling….
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January 13, 2010 2:36pm
RightNow

John Key is going to end Japanese whaling in the Southern Ocean. I saw him walk over water once – well he kind of stepped over a puddle but jeez it was awesome.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/3227549/Key-plan-to-end-Southern-Ocean-whaling
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January 13, 2010 4:07pm
RightNow

Wreck, there is apparently nothing that the climate can actually do that would prove that man is not causing catastrophic climate change. Even when the trend reversed to cooling it apparently is still proof of AGCC because it is within the models’ margin of error.
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January 13, 2010 4:12pm
MeneerCronje

Pfft – is “divisive” and “negative”really the best JK could come up with?? Poofy, toothless, King Nothing.

Maori Party MP Hone Harawira’s latest comments on New Zealand’s colonial history are “divisive” and “negative”, Prime Minister John Key says.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3227799/Harawira-hindering-race-relations-Key
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January 13, 2010 4:51pm
WebWrat

Can anyone tell me how I can get fixes for property survey pegs?
I want to check out a boundary with my GPS but can’t find the pegs in the scrub.
Thanks.
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January 13, 2010 5:37pm
Steve

WebWrat,

Get down to the WINZ Office in the morning and get a few volunteers to help clear the scrub
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January 13, 2010 7:07pm
Southern Raider

When does school start again?

I see Minto is now off to Waihopai with Keith Locke. Looks like he should get a summer job while schools out so that he doesn’t have so much time on his hands to cause mischief.
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January 13, 2010 7:47pm
Viking2

Clinton calls on China to explain cyber attacks as Google threatens to pull out

* UPDATE: Michael Sainsbury, China correspondent
* From: The Australian
* January 13, 2010 4:51PM

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today called on Beijing to explain cyber attacks originating from China against internet search giant Google and at least 20 other firms.
More at:http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/google-mulls-china-exit-after-cyber-attack/story-e6frg996-1225818786765
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January 13, 2010 7:56pm
Viking2

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/google-to-build-great-wall-in-wake-of-cyber-attack/story-e6frg90x-1225818914737
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January 13, 2010 8:03pm
jaba

what is kelvin davis up to on redalert .. 2 posts in the vein of Winny re Maori stuff???
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January 13, 2010 8:04pm
pjje

I never knew that about Libertarians! See http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/humor/caveman-diet-nytimes-2010.html.
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January 13, 2010 8:05pm
jaba

sthn raider .. I heard Minties now works for Matt McCartens union .. Unite
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January 13, 2010 8:06pm
WebWrat

Thanks Steve!
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January 13, 2010 8:09pm
Southern Raider

God save us Jaba. So a teacher strike is on the books then.

When will these guys ever come to the realisation that Socialism is so last decade.
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January 13, 2010 8:13pm
Southern Raider

How long would a white man manufacturing fake drivers licences last in this country?
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January 13, 2010 8:55pm
jaba

I would like David to start a post re Margaret Mutu and her stating settlements will NEVER EVER be full and final .. future generations will keep coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see the rich prick post is almost at 200, this one should go close.
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January 14, 2010 10:01am
starboard

..all the while Key walks around smiling and grinning….theres gona be some serious shit go down in this country soon.
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January 14, 2010 10:14am
Pete George

He is starting to outline his serious shit Starboard:

Raising economic growth to be Govt’s major focus this year, says Key

Key said the Government’s major theme in 2010 would be improving New Zealand’s economy and growth in what was still a “fragile” world economy.

The Budget would focus on steps to improve economic growth and he would lay out his initial thinking in his first major speech of the year on February 9 when Parliament resumed.
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January 14, 2010 10:21am
jaba

want a laugh .. google fleggaard and check out the washing machine ad.
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January 14, 2010 10:28am
RightNow

heh jaba, I found it and yes it was funny. On the other hand it did remind me that when topless women really skydive their boobs go concave.
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January 14, 2010 10:51am
RightNow

Jaba, regarding the treaty settlements, I seem to recall there was a cut-off date (some time in 2008?) and there can be no more claims lodged.
anybody know the detail?
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January 14, 2010 10:57am
Kris K

Thousands feared dead after powerful Haiti quake

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Haitians piled bodies along the devastated streets of their capital Wednesday after a powerful earthquake flattened the president’s palace, the cathedral, hospitals, schools, the main prison and whole neighborhoods. Officials feared thousands — perhaps more than 100,000 — may have perished but there was no firm count. …

Most Haitians are desperately poor, and after years of political instability the country has no real construction standards. In November 2008, following the collapse of a school in Petionville, the mayor of Port-au-Prince estimated about 60 percent of buildings were shoddily built and unsafe normally.

I was actually thinking that they must have some pretty lax building codes – this news item confirms it.
You get the feeling that almost every building failed catasrophically. No doubt the West will be expected to bail out yet another corrupt and incompetent regime.
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January 14, 2010 10:59am
Ryan Sproull

I would suggest those that get upset about them are the immature wankers. No baby fur seals are killed because of karma scores.

It definitely creates a sense of interaction that you don’t get at other blogs. When you strongly agree or disagree you have some tiny input into a conversation and there was the possibility for an indication of the opinion of the majority of non posting readers.

On quiet afternoons others in our office have competitions for the most positive or negative karma on particular topics. And it creates a motivation to revisit a continuing conversation.

I would be saddened if DPF has succumbed to the droning elitist minority on the karma buttons.

Sonny,

I’m sure he has not. Apparently it was attracting denial-of-service attacks. I’m sure that can be fixed.

As for interaction, my impression is that karma buttons make people feel like they’ve had a say without requiring them to hurt their heads coming up with any actual reason for agreeing or disagreeing with a statement.

Combine that with the number of thumbs down I received for my friendly and genuine offers of catching up with regulars in other cities for a drink while I was travelling through, I don’t see any benefits of the buttons and plenty of reasons to believe they’re excuses for anonymous rudeness.

It should cause some kind of gasp that the only people polite enough to take me up on the offer were Danyl and Dad4Justice. Sharp intake of breath.

If they weren’t anonymous, I think that would fix those problems. Cowards would be less likely to click them if their name was suddenly put to their opinions, and I might even be tempted myself to click them for non-anonymous karma.
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January 14, 2010 11:09am
Danyl Mclauchlan

No doubt the West will be expected to bail out yet another corrupt and incompetent regime.

Those dying kids should have used steel-reinforced concrete when they built their slums. This’ll learn ’em.
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January 14, 2010 11:30am
malcolm

I don’t see any benefits of the buttons and plenty of reasons to believe they’re excuses for anonymous rudeness.

I kind of agree. If you don’t like what someone has said you now have to man-up and say so. There has certainly been a bit of karma bullying at times.

I tried to use more positive than negative, and I miss the positive. I can do without the negative. If someone writes something particularly lucid I might write something like: “Well said, Ryan”.
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January 14, 2010 11:35am
malcolm

Re Haiti. Just read Collapse by Jared Diamond (a very good read). He has a very good chapter talking about why Haiti is in such a mess compared with The Dominican Republic (the other half of the island Hispaniola). Haiti started off in a much better position. Very interesting.
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January 14, 2010 11:41am
Redbaiter

“If someone writes something particularly lucid I might write something like: “Well said, Ryan”.”

Gratuitous expressions of agreement were once frowned upon in discussion groups as a waste of bandwidth. You either say something with a point or shut the hell up.
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January 14, 2010 11:47am
Ryan Sproull

Gratuitous expressions of agreement were once frowned upon in discussion groups as a waste of bandwidth. You either say something with a point or shut the hell up.

Well said, Redbaiter.
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January 14, 2010 11:52am
MyNameIsJack

Kris K (1302) Says:

January 14th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Thousands feared dead after powerful Haiti quake

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Haitians piled bodies along the devastated streets of their capital Wednesday after a powerful earthquake flattened the president’s palace, the cathedral, hospitals, schools, the main prison and whole neighborhoods. Officials feared thousands — perhaps more than 100,000 — may have perished but there was no firm count. …

Most Haitians are desperately poor, and after years of political instability the country has no real construction standards. In November 2008, following the collapse of a school in Petionville, the mayor of Port-au-Prince estimated about 60 percent of buildings were shoddily built and unsafe normally.

I was actually thinking that they must have some pretty lax building codes – this news item confirms it.
You get the feeling that almost every building failed catasrophically. No doubt the West will be expected to bail out yet another corrupt and incompetent regime.

Another great demonstration of “Christian Charity” from Kris K. No doubt of the same mind as Pat Robertson.

US EVANGELICAL preacher Pat Robertson has blamed Haitians directly for the devastating earthquake, saying that the country “swore a pact to the devil” at its creation.
“Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it,” Robertson said on his Christian Broadcasting Network show The 700 Club.

The 80-year-old former presidential candidate said Haitians were originally “under the heel of the French”.

“You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever.

“And they got together and swore a pact to the devil.

“They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story.

“And so, the devil said, ‘Okay, it’s a deal’.

“Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other.”

And people still ask me WHY I am not a xtian.
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January 14, 2010 11:57am
MyNameIsJack

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/pat-robertson-blames-haiti-suffering-on-pact-with-devil/story-e6frf7jx-1225819075543

Link for above story
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January 14, 2010 11:58am
stephen

And people still ask me WHY I am not a xtian.

Some wacko in a country far, far away?
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January 14, 2010 12:01pm
Kris K

Danyl Mclauchlan 11:30 am

No doubt the West will be expected to bail out yet another corrupt and incompetent regime.

Those dying kids should have used steel-reinforced concrete when they built their slums. This’ll learn ‘em.

NameIsJack 11:57 am,

Another great demonstration of “Christian Charity” from Kris K.

While we may sympathise with the victims, there is also a degree of responsibility for a given society/country to ensure that basic safety issues are met, and its populace therefore protected.

I mean if you, Jack and Danyl, built a house, but ignored the building codes, and then suffered a collapse in, say, an earthquake, then while I may feel sorry for you, you do have to take some personal responsibility for your mishap.

While the following is spiritual in its application, it is based on common sense and the personal responsibilty of the individual:

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
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January 14, 2010 12:15pm
Ryan Sproull

Kris,

If a meteor strike destroys your home, do you have to take some personal responsibility for your mishap?
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January 14, 2010 12:18pm
Yvette

Harawira issue
So he is now facing criticism again over the “raping our lands and ripping us off” comments.
I would have thought the actual expletives were of little importance when they were first used – you can get much the same as regular fare on television every evening.
Just like the illusion of mass weapons of destruction, by the time the team looking for these officially said there were none, we had all accepted the US and others were going into Iraq for other reasons. Similarly I would have thought no one was really thinking Harawira’s expletives were the real issue – they just became a side show – the main concern was view we are all land rapists and rip-off artists.
So after a tax payer holiday, absent from Parliament for a period, Harawira has repeated the same offensive comment and the Maori Party needs to now act as it seemed it was going to do before and expel Harawira, or admit they all have the same view, in which case Key needs to review his coalition with them.
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January 14, 2010 12:23pm
wreck1080

John Keys star keeps rising.

In one week, he has stated his intentions to lower taxes, repaired NZ / US relations and saved the whales to boot.

Can he do no wrong?
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January 14, 2010 1:10pm
MyNameIsJack

Ryan Sproull (3268) Says:

January 14th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Kris,

If a meteor strike destroys your home, do you have to take some personal responsibility for your mishap?

Yes, of course, because god would never, ever let a meteor fall on earth, just like he would never, ever design a planet that requires earthquakes to maintain stability.
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January 14, 2010 1:17pm
CharlieBrown

Just read an interesting article by Bernard Hickey. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10619277

You may disagree with his views in general but the statistics he shows really illustrates how Labours increase in the top personal tax rate created a huge tax avoidence industry which helped contribute to the property boom. It puts an impetous on John Key to completely remove the highest tax rate all together and have as few different income tax rates. Making 33% the top tax rate on its own without changing the overall tax structure may increase the overall tax take within the next few years. It has been proven in many economies that a flat tax system, although painfull in the short term, actually increases government revenue in the medium to long term. It makes John Keys pledge of any changes in tax rates being revenue neutral very shortsighted, the old saying comes into play… No pain, no gain.

Overall, these statistics show that the last governments ideals are based around envy and had no long term goals. Now, lets see if National have the balls to put their money where their mouth is and remove the current tax regime based around envy. National used to constantly accuse Labour policies of being based around envy, not lets see them change it.
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January 14, 2010 1:22pm
CharlieBrown

Yvette (417) Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

Harawira issue:

I think people took issue to his referring to some of us as “white motherf******”. Imagine the uproar if Rodney Hide called the people issuing maori travel permits as “brown motherf*******”? In fact, Harawira’s party has the gall to call Brash racist when he promoted removing race-based electorate seats.

In saying that, you are correct in saying the most concerning thing about his comments was his belief that maori are still being ripped of by the system. People who believed that they are entitled to anything without them individually working for it will never succeed. This is the problem among not just a sizable sector of maori, but across a sizable sector of all of NZ.
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January 14, 2010 1:39pm
Kris K

Ryan Sproull 12:18 pm,

Kris,

If a meteor strike destroys your home, do you have to take some personal responsibility for your mishap?

Only in the same way as you would if struck by lightening in a one in a million occurance. Although I’m sure your house being struck by a meteor is even less odds than you being struck with lightening. Do you know anyone who has, Ryan?

Of course earthquakes are a fairly regular occurance, and so making provision for them is in the area of ‘reasonable care’.
Do you put your seat belt on when driving, Ryan? Especially after just recently graduating from your “Tonka truck and tricycle”.
How’s that working out for you, anyway?
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January 14, 2010 1:40pm
KiwiGreg

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3229811/Clinton-postpones-New-Zealand-visit

I guess MY pact with Satan is paying off.
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January 14, 2010 1:44pm
Danyl Mclauchlan

I mean if you, Jack and Danyl, built a house, but ignored the building codes, and then suffered a collapse in, say, an earthquake, then while I may feel sorry for you, you do have to take some personal responsibility for your mishap.

Now let’s imagine you were born in Haiti, the poorest country in the western hemisphere. You have no education, no tools, no money, no job prospects, no materials and no skills. How would you go about earthquake proofing your slum? And if it was destroyed in an earthquake, along with most of your friends and family, how would you feel about rich, privilieged people standing around in the wake of the disaster clucking their tongues and explaining that you needed to take personal responsibility for yourself?
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January 14, 2010 1:50pm
Kris K

KiwiGreg 1:44 pm,

From Greg’s link:

Clinton postpones New Zealand visit:

“Mrs Clinton told me that given the unimaginable scale of tragedy, and the fact that there are no operating institutions left in Haiti, the importance of US leadership in the relief efforts required her to return home immediately.

“The decision to postpone the visit is entirely understandable, given the massive damage and loss of life in Haiti, and the fact that there are a very large number of Americans based there.

“I told Secretary Clinton that New Zealand had specialist skills in a number of emergency relief and recovery areas, and we would be happy to supplement US efforts in any way required. She thanked me for the offer and said she would come back to me with any requests,” Mr McCully said.

“I told Secretary Clinton that New Zealand had specialist skills in a number of emergency relief and recovery areas …”
We’re also not bad in the area of earthquake design of buildings and infrastructure.

Maybe the Yanks would be happy to bankroll a little input from the Kiwi engineering and building industry in the rebuilding of affected areas of Haiti?
Something perhaps Shonkey could take up with her when she manages to get to NZ?
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January 14, 2010 1:57pm
Ryan Sproull

Kris,

My point was that if the Haitians are not capable of protecting themselves from such an earthquake, they can’t be held personally responsible for it. And you needed my Tonka truck joke explained to you, just let me know.
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January 14, 2010 2:08pm
Kris K

Danyl Mclauchlan 1:50 pm,

Now let’s imagine you were born in Haiti, … how would you feel about rich, privilieged people standing around in the wake of the disaster clucking their tongues and explaining that you needed to take personal responsibility for yourself?

I would probably ask, “Why didn’t you hold my government to account in the area of good building practices?”

But that would be after asking my government and local bodies, “Why didn’t the building codes address this possibility”, or perhaps more likely, “Why don’t we have building codes?”

Once again, only ‘governments’ allow construction of buildings “upon the sand”.
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January 14, 2010 2:09pm
Pete George

What was the known risk of earthquakes of this size in Haiti?

Checking…

The fault has been more or less locked for 200 years. Seismologists were unsure as to whether it would produce one Big One or several smaller ones

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/wl_time/08599195328400
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January 14, 2010 2:14pm
KiwiGreg

“I would probably ask, “Why didn’t you hold my government to account in the area of good building practices?”

But that would be after asking my government and local bodies, “Why didn’t the building codes address this possibility”, or perhaps more likely, “Why don’t we have building codes?”

Once again, only ‘governments’ allow construction of buildings “upon the sand”.”

The closest I have got to Haiti was Jamaica but do you actually have any conception of what life is like in these countries? Danyl is right on the money, I’ll bet the people did the best they could with the resources available to them. Getting all sanctimonious (sp?) about why they built the way they did isnt going to help them now and wont help them in the future.
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January 14, 2010 2:19pm
Pete George

The problem is, long-term forecasting does not do much to keep people from putting themselves in harm’s way. If it did, nobody would live in California or Mexico City or parts of Japan.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1953347,00.html?xid=feed-yahoo-full-world-related

Some experts think this quake moves the stress point along the fault towards Jamaica.

What if a major earthquake struck Wellington, or Napier. Should the rest of NZ just shrug their shoulders and tell them they should have known better?
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January 14, 2010 2:20pm
Danyl Mclauchlan

I would probably ask, “Why didn’t you hold my government to account in the area of good building practices?”

I bet that’s exactly what all those children in Haiti dying of infected wounds, thirst or dysentery are crying out right now. You’re a hell’ve a Christian, Kris.
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January 14, 2010 2:22pm
Ryan Sproull

Silly Danyl. Didn’t the hero of the Bible say, “I wash my hands of this”? I’m sure that sounds familiar. “It’s not my problem. The responsibility is yours.”
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January 14, 2010 2:31pm
wreck1080

Unbelievable…

American televangelist Pat Robertson has blamed the devastating earthquake in Haiti on a pact between the impoverished nation’s founders and the devil.

So, why do church groups always seem to be getting hit by lightning in the USA?
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January 14, 2010 3:16pm
Kris K

Danyl Mclauchlan 2:22 pm,

I bet that’s exactly what all those children in Haiti dying of infected wounds, thirst or dysentery are crying out right now. You’re a hell’ve a Christian, Kris.

While my heart may go out to the individuals, children, et al (and it does), this was an accident waiting to happen. It’s all well and good having sympathy after the fact, but if we were going to do something shouldn’t it have been in the area of ensuring this couldn’t happen.

The West seems quick to rush in after Third World disasters and help clean up the mess by throwing money, aid, etc., at the problem. But shouldn’t we rather assist them in the areas of education so that they might have their own engineers and skilled tradesmen to prevent such disasters occuring – especially where they are largely preventable – like in this case?

What’s that old proverb:
“Give a man a fish – feed him for a day. Teach him to fish – feed him for a lifetime.”

The West seems to specialise in the former, rather than the latter.

I speak as an engineer and a Christian.
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January 14, 2010 3:39pm
hj

Britain’s cold snap is explained by the Arctic oscillation

IT IS an ill wind that blows no good, as people have been remarking to each other since at least the 16th century. In the case of the bitter easterlies that have brought Britain colder, snowier weather than has been seen for a couple of decades, the proverbial benefit has been felt by the more foolish and facile of those who doubt the reality or likelihood of man-made climate change. “Snow Chaos: And still they claim it’s global warming” read the front page headline of Britain’s Daily Express on January 6th. The foolishness is not one sided. With less public prominence, those convinced of climatic doom mutter of “extreme events” being more likely in a more man-made climate, with the implication that this might in some way explain the current cold.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/greenview/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15262021&fsrc=nwl
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January 14, 2010 3:48pm
Redbaiter

Funny how the left rush to portray Pat Robertson as representative of Christians everywhere, but Islamic terrorists are never representative of Muslims.

Sad how the left see the earthquake in Haiti as an opportunity to latch onto the words of some insignificant zealot and use them and the tragedy as a means to smear Christians.

Funny how the left are preoccupied with smearing Christians, when the elephant in the room is the fact that outcomes in Haiti, namely the poverty and social desolation, are mainly the result of global and local left wing influences.
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January 14, 2010 4:13pm
Kris K

Redbaiter 4:13 pm,

Funny how the left are preoccupied with smearing Christians, when the elephant in the room is the fact that outcomes in Haiti, namely the poverty and social desolation, are mainly the result of global and local left wing influences.

I raised this the other day, but you’ve highlighted it again for me, Red.
I believe the West (and Israel) has traditionally been prosperous because it was (past tense) founded upon God’s word, His laws, and it generally acknowledged Him within society. God blesses those that submit to His authority. As we have divorced ourselves from Him we have lost the benefit of His protection (spiritually and physically) and His blessing. But there is still a hangover from our past that the Third World have never enjoyed.

Third World nations generally worship false gods and follow false religions.
Of course Haiti is known for its voodoo, and is certainly not a Christian nation (past or present).
Part of God’s blessing in the West extends to wisdom and infrastructural systems that protect the members of that society – what we would consider part of civil society. One example of this would be building codes, and the fact that we look to improve our society with such safeguards.

Whether it’s tsunamis, earthquakes, mudslides, epidemics, et al, Third World countries always fare worse than the West for the above reasons; primarily being out of God’s blessing and the downstream effects of that.

As the West comes more in line with Left Wing Socialism, and therefore becomes increasingly divorced from the God of the Bible, then we will see the further decline of the West as a result.
I believe the Islamic flood into most/all Western nations is also part of a curse upon us; a loss of spiritual protection.
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January 14, 2010 6:18pm
Pete George

Your god sounds like a mean bastard Kris. But it doesn’t add up. If all of Haiti had converted to your “true” religion how would that have prevented the earthquake?

If all Muslims converted to your “true” religion would that suddenly make them caring prosperous people?

I think you will find that Christians have suffered from a lot of natural (and unnatural) disasters over the centuries. Can’t be praying hard enough. Or something.
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January 14, 2010 6:39pm
Anna Sewell

Funny how the left rush to portray Pat Robertson as representative of Christians everywhere, but Islamic terrorists are never representative of Muslims.

He seems pretty representative to me. I failed to see the difference between what Pat said and what Kris K said in his 6:18pm post.
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January 15, 2010 8:16am

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