General Debate 14 February 2009

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reid

What do you think of this prediction from Gerald Celente: 2009 will bring the worst economic collapse ever.

This guy is extremely astute. He predicted sub-prime and many other trends.
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February 14, 2009 9:13am
Brian Smaller

My thought of the day comes after watching news last night and seeign the family of the tagger killed reacting to the sentencing of Emery. Such love and devotion. Where was it when he was running amok? Also, twice this week we have seen “supporters” wearing t-shirts emblazoned with the deceased face and a message of support/sympathy outside the courts. What is this? Is it an American thing?
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February 14, 2009 9:25am
Patrick Starr

Yeah Brian. I noticed that too. I also found it unusual to hear a Maoris outside a court complaining a sentence was too light
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February 14, 2009 9:48am
reid

Well if I’d lost my son I’d be complaining too.

It’s one thing to look at it dispassionately as uninvolved people can, quite another if you are family of the deceased.
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February 14, 2009 9:51am
Patrick Starr

If I lost my son in those circumstances I’d be taking a very long look at myself
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February 14, 2009 9:53am
Ross Nixon

Re the Greatest Depression video in post #1: Sounds almost completely correct to me. But knowing what to do for a job during the following 10+ year depression is the problem.
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February 14, 2009 9:55am
AG

“If I lost my son in those circumstances I’d be taking a very long look at myself”

Yep – nothing like some uniformed bigotry to start the weekend off on the right note …

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10490683
“Ms Cameron said her son had come from a loving, caring family but had stopped attending high school late last year – against his separated parents’ wishes – because he “hated it”.
As a child, Pihema had been brought up knowing tagging was wrong but, like many teenagers, had found himself in minor trouble.
About a year ago he was caught – by his parents – tagging a table.
“It was just a peer thing. Every teenager does it.
“We were totally against it … I gave him a bucket of water and a cloth – no Jif – and made him scrub it off.”
Ms Cameron said she had signed a petition about two years ago that supported more parental responsibility through a scheme in which parents would also have to remove graffiti with their children if the teens were caught tagging.”
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February 14, 2009 9:58am
Redbaiter

“Is it an American thing?”

More a progressive thing. They’re fucking countries all over the world.
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February 14, 2009 10:03am
Patrick Starr

and nothing like starting the weekend off with some bleeding heart pinko making excuses for the little bastard and his parent.
I was wondering what would have made that 15 year old into an out of control drug taking juvenile delinquent vandal – that was until I heard his mother on the news – answered most things really.

“It was just a peer thing. Every teenager does it.” maybe in her house, but not in mine
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February 14, 2009 10:08am
reid

Yes graffiti is extremely annoying. I live in Eastbourne and the idiots that have vandalised and tagged the pier there over this summer really piss me off. I mean, what’s the point.

It must be doubly annoying when it happens repeatedly to your own house and I feel for people who suffer that. However, at the same time, it’s hardly the crime of the century.

I take your point Patrick and I wouldn’t and most others too, wouldn’t raise such disrespectful children. However that’s all it is: it’s a disrespectful act, not a violent one.

For that reason, personally, I don’t really put this into the same category as other self-defense incidents such as the various people over the years who’ve shot and wounded people who broke into their property. Those offenders are to me, in a different league and they got what they deserved.

Having said that, I really didn’t like the veiled threat the mother made last night on the news, when she asked how Emery would feel if it was one of his children that was killed. I thought that comment really went beyond the pale and it shows perhaps the mentality of the parents who raised this kid to do what he did.
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February 14, 2009 10:16am
Brian Smaller

““It was just a peer thing. Every teenager does it.”

Not in my house either. My kids are respectful of other people’s property. Their own is another thing.

AG – why is that bigotry to question the family’s control of a teenage family member? As to my comment on t-shirts. The other group wearing them this week were family and supporters of the farmer killed in the Hawkes Bay.
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February 14, 2009 10:19am
AG

“maybe in her house, but not in mine”

Pray tell, Patrick, do you live in South Auckland? What decile school do your kids go to (assuming, of course, they aren’t privately schooled)? What role models are they presented with to aspire to? Does their peer group include many desocialised youth who’ve given up on education and already hit the bottle/bong? No? Then STFU.

Fact is, you have NO evidence whatsoever that the Mother was a bad parent. Indeed, the available evidence is she was a good parent who couldn’t keep her kid on the straight and narrow. So for you to assume otherwise is bigotry, pure and simple.

Oh – and as for her reaction on the news? Go look at your kid and imagine someone stabbed them to death, then got 4 and a bit years in jail without batting an eyelid about it, and show us how composed and quiet you would be.
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February 14, 2009 10:20am
Redbaiter

“Fact is, you have NO evidence whatsoever that the Mother was a bad parent.”

Its not a fact and there is plenty of evidence. In the first place, the little scumbag had no respect for private property because he hadn’t been taught that respect. In the second place, almost everything this woman is reported to have said at the trial identifies her as a bad parent. Once again, all you have to offer here is blind hate the rich based ideological prejudice.

(..and the usual condescension and arrogance)
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February 14, 2009 10:26am
big bruv

Yep – nothing like some uniformed liberalism to start the weekend off on the right note …

This little prick spent the day drinking and taking drugs, where were the “loving caring parents” then AG?

““Ms Cameron said her son had come from a loving, caring family but had stopped attending high school late last year – against his separated parents’ wishes – because he “hated it”.

So that is an acceptable excuse for you is it AG?, the little low life did not like school/work/responsibility so lets all shrug our shoulders and point the oxygen thief in the general direction of the local WINZ office.
Mrs Cameron is also a fucking liar, a “loving caring” family does not sit by and watch their kid fall off the bandwagon.

Bruce Emery should not have taken a knife outside, he should not have stabbed this vermin however I understand why he did it, what Mr Emery should have done is grabbed a baseball bat and broken both of this little pricks arms and legs.
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February 14, 2009 10:27am
AG

“…the little scumbag had no respect for private property because he hadn’t been taught that respect.”

This is a stupid claim. The evidence is the Mother did try to inculcate such respect in him (see previous posts). Just because a lesson doesn’t take doesn’t mean it wasn’t given. Put it this way – I’m sure your mother tried to teach you to be a civil and decent person … we can’t hold her responsible for the outcome, can we?

“…almost everything this woman is reported to have said at the trial identifies her as a bad parent.”

Evidence, please. If it is reported, lets see it.

“…all you have to offer here is blind hate the rich based ideological prejudice.”

Errr … Bruce Emery was “rich”? I’m sure that would come as a surprise to him!
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February 14, 2009 10:31am
Patrick Starr

My kids don’t vandalise property because I taught them respect, and taught them to understand the value and effort in working for it.
It doesn’t get handed to them on a WINZ plate.

“nothing like some uniformed…” So that means you are ‘informed’ AG? – what do you do? Are you a social worker for the family, their counselor, Citizens advice bureau? – or have you just scanned the herald like everyone else!

“Ms Cameron said she had signed a petition about two years ago that supported more parental responsibility through a scheme in which parents would also have to remove graffiti with their children if the teens were caught tagging.”

Fantastic – she just doesn’t say how many times she actually went and removed his tags.
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February 14, 2009 10:31am
billyborker

Brian Smaller, Patrick Starr and their ilk are simply pissed that abrown kid can get justice at the expense of a white business man.

Let’s take a look at what this brown kid did.

He made a conscious decision to graffiti some property. The penalty for this is a fine or prison, not death.

He also made a conscious decision to flee when challenged. The penalty for this is nothing.

OK, now let’s look at what the white business man did.

He made a conscious decision to challenge the graffitist.

He made a conscious decision to take a weapon.

He made a conscious decision to chase the graffitist, rather than call the police.

He made a conscious decision to use the knife.

Afetr using the knofe, he made a conscious decision to flee the scene, rather than render assistance.

On reaching his home, he mad a cosnscious decision to cleana nd hide the knife, rather than phoning police and ambulance.

And you dropkicks want to blame the mother?

In my opinion Emery was guilty of murder and should have been sentenced as such. Four years is a light sentence for a man who made conscious decisions to kill, to not render all possible life saving assistance and to attempt to hide his involvement.

I also wonder how Emery would feel if it was one of his children that was killed? And reid, that’s a legitimate question, not a threat.
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February 14, 2009 10:34am
big bruv

AG

“This is a stupid claim. The evidence is the Mother did try to inculcate such respect in him (see previous posts)”

Where is this evidence?, the only words I have heard the “mother” utter were a threat to anybody who “laughed in her face”.

The mother sat on her arse while her son smoked drugs and got pissed, all because he “hated school”
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February 14, 2009 10:36am
Redbaiter

“This is a stupid claim. The evidence is the Mother did try to inculcate such respect in him ”

Utter bullshit- she said herself it was only a matter of a bit of paint. (or some such words) She is a product of your political system AGatha and is raising children that are like products. Dysfunctional and destructive to society, but that’s really how you want it.

AGatha- “Errr … Bruce Emery was “rich”? I’m sure that would come as a surprise to him!”

Why the eagerness to portray yourself as such a superficial dipshit?
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February 14, 2009 10:36am
AG

PS:

““nothing like some uniformed…” So that means you are ‘informed’ AG? – what do you do? Are you a social worker for the family, their counselor, Citizens advice bureau? – or have you just scanned the herald like everyone else!”

Actually, the latter is all I did. But the scary thing is that even this minor effort made me more informed on the issue than you were before you went around condemning the kid’s family. Have a bit of respect, can’t you? At least PRETEND to care about getting SOME facts in hand before you rant off.
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February 14, 2009 10:39am
Patrick Starr

“she was a good parent who couldn’t keep her kid on the straight and narrow”

and by comparison to? LOL – doesn’t say much for your upbringing!
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February 14, 2009 10:40am
Redbaiter

Borker, go away with your shallow racist shit. You’re another brain damaged communist who cannot ever see things clearly for the red mist of the leftist dreamworld.
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February 14, 2009 10:41am
reid

Re the Greatest Depression video in post #1: Sounds almost completely correct to me. But knowing what to do for a job during the following 10+ year depression is the problem.

Yes I completely agree Ross. Celente makes sense though, when he says that industries that increase productivity in the same way the internet revolution has, are the way of the future, as is health, security and conservation technologies.

Regarding getting through this thing intact, did you notice he said he buys gold? That’s something I’ve been advising people to do on this blog for some time. Do it and do it now, is my advice. Don’t get certificates, get bullion. Also silver, that’s got a great multiplier.
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February 14, 2009 10:42am
AG

BB:

“Where is this evidence?, the only words I have heard the “mother” utter were a threat to anybody who “laughed in her face”.”

See my post at 9:58. And are you seriously surprised/outraged that a mother who has lost a son would be moved to hit anyone who came up to her and “laughed in her face” about this? Seriously? Honestly? Right then…

“The mother sat on her arse while her son smoked drugs and got pissed, all because he “hated school.””

I’m interested to know what you would do if your 15 year old acted in this way. Maybe we could pitch a new reality TV show to TVNZ. Big Bruv and Patrick Starr go into South Auckland and take a bunch of 15 year old truants in hand, putting them on the straight and narrow with their amazing parenting skills. It would be a cross between Super Nanny and Ross Kemp visiting the gangs of the world.

RB:

“she said herself it was only a matter of a bit of paint. (or some such words)”

In the context of “my son didn’t deserve to die for a bit of paint” – even YOU wouldn’t dispute this, surely?
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February 14, 2009 10:46am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Think I found the perfect Valentines day gift. 😉
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February 14, 2009 10:47am
Redbaiter

“even YOU wouldn’t dispute this, surely?”

Of course I would you tiresome brainless posturing fool, BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST A MATTER OF A BIT OF PAINT. Go away.
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February 14, 2009 10:49am
AG

Oh – that’s right! Pihama Edwards was attempting to hide Obama’s birth certificate, and Emery was sent to retrieve it!

I’d forgotten that angle. Sorry!
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February 14, 2009 10:50am
big bruv

At what point do the left accept personal responsibility?, it never ceases to amaze me the lengths the pinko’s will go to in their all out hatred and war on those who they perceive to be “rich”.

At what stage do they say “enough is enough”?

Of course the reality is that they do not give a shit about Cameron, his useless mother or anybody else in the underclass, they want them to stay where they are, bloody hell they NEED them to stay where they are or they (the left) have no reason to exist.
As one who has come from the “underclass” I can tell you that these wankers are the very reason most do not manage to struggle out from the grip of poverty, the very last thing they want these people to do is get on in life, I despise them with every bone in my body.
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February 14, 2009 10:51am
greenfly

reid says buy gold and silver bullion. I say buy land, plant food crops. Bullion is very hard to digest and hell on your teeth. An empty stomach will keep you awake at night. An empty safe can be ignored if you are well fed.
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February 14, 2009 10:51am
Patrick Starr

Reid – I’m not defending what Emery did. He left his house with a knife FFS! In saying that however I can understand the absolute frustration of the man trying to defend his property from constant vandalism by drugged up little shits like that
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February 14, 2009 10:53am
Neil

A very simple question from a “racist” from the boondocks in the South of South Island.
If Pihama Cameron was Peter Smith from Roxburgh, Central Otago would we have the same screaming ? Wrong ethnicity and wrong part of the country. Reverse the ethnic status- if Peter’s attacker was an ethnic of Pacific background would there be the same fuss.
The nastiness of Ms Cameron was objectionable,there was racial hatred dripping from her mouth and her associated hangers on. Emery certainly did wrong.
However the crime ridden South Aucklanders are being boosted by the do gooders looking for social inequality as a means to slam NZ real society. Ethnics cannot fall back on injustices, real or nonexistant, to pass the blame to mainstream society.
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February 14, 2009 10:53am
reid

Does their peer group include many desocialised youth who’ve given up on education and already hit the bottle/bong? No? Then STFU.

Fair point, AG. However, not all people who grow up in the same socio-economic environment have the same outcomes. Two families, side-by-side. One family is self-disciplined, loving, respectful, values education. The other is violent, angry, hateful, envious and lazy. The children in each of those families selects their peers accordingly. Most lefties appear to imagine socio-economics is the sole root cause of these circumstances. They are wrong. The root cause of the environment for both families in my example lies in their attitudes, which costs absolutely nothing to possess.

In my opinion Emery was guilty of murder and should have been sentenced as such. Four years is a light sentence for a man who made conscious decisions to kill, to not render all possible life saving assistance and to attempt to hide his involvement.

I also wonder how Emery would feel if it was one of his children that was killed? And reid, that’s a legitimate question, not a threat.

Billy, for me, from reading the media reports, there’s enough evidence to imply that (a) Emery kept hold of the knife because he was chasing two youths, not just one (b) in the heat of the moment it is easily imaginable that he didn’t thrust, he held it and the youth walked onto it and (c) he didn’t realise the serious nature of the injury he’d inflicted.

Of course only the jury knows how these issues really panned out, but to me, all of these add up to a reasonable doubt defense so I think manslaughter was the appropriate verdict here. 4.5 years is the usual sentence for this. It was a tragic rather than a brutal incident, to me and I think justice was in fact served in this case.

Secondly, re: the mother’s comment. The way I described it in my comment was not the way she said it on the news. The way she said it was far more threatening than a mere innocent question – have a look for the clip if you can, think it was TVNZ.
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February 14, 2009 10:57am
Patrick Starr

“Big Bruv and Patrick Starr go into South Auckland”
I lived in Mangere East for 5 years FFS – and even had a few local gang members working for me. I do know these people and could probably ‘inform’ you of a few things

“Pihama Edwards”??? – and here you are telling us you were the informed one?
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February 14, 2009 11:01am
Redbaiter

“I’d forgotten that angle. Sorry!”

The angle you have forgotten is that the kid should not have ventured onto someone else’s property and defaced it. He has no respect for a custom that is the cornerstone of a civilized society. Neither does his mother, and neither do you, and people who think this way are really at the root of the whole problem and that they are about in such overwhelming and socially destructive numbers is a result of the social and political ascendancy in NZ of people who think like Helen Klark.

..and you and every other damn blind destructive Progressive out there.
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February 14, 2009 11:04am
reid

reid says buy gold and silver bullion. I say buy land, plant food crops.

That’s not a bad idea either, greenfly, provided you don’t have to go into debt to get it.
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February 14, 2009 11:05am
big bruv

AG

“Big Bruv and Patrick Starr go into South Auckland and take a bunch of 15 year old truants in hand, putting them on the straight and narrow with their amazing parenting skills”

I cannot speak for Patrick as I do not know the man, however I know that I would survive, that is where I come from and I know the frustration levels many of those young men experience.
I would happily do as you ask, the only problem is that you and your other left wing wankers would expect me to do the job with one arm tied behind my back.
The first thing you would need to do is establish authority, this might mean cracking the odd head, however you fucking idiots think you can do this with soft and gently words, trust me these young men would rip you to shreds if you approached them in that fashion.

So please AG, do not make silly comments when you have no fucking idea what it is like to live in their world.
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February 14, 2009 11:08am
dad4justice

Only the willfully ignorant amongst us think we are equal under law, as Helen Klark proved that justice is a sick joke.
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February 14, 2009 11:09am
Patrick Starr

AG says
“And are you seriously surprised/outraged that a mother who has lost a son would be moved to hit anyone who came up to her and “laughed in her face” about this? Seriously? Honestly? Right then…”

yet the lefties like borker defended this piece of shit
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/an_invalids_beneficiary.html
for doing exactly that – Mother of murderer laughing in the face of the murder victims family

Do you pinkos deliberately set out to be so hypocritical – or is it just instinctive?
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February 14, 2009 11:18am
Inventory2

Anyone else read the piece of crap Tane has published at the VDS on “institutional racism”, referring to the Emery case?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/02/racist-dog-whistle.html
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February 14, 2009 11:28am
Brian Smaller

That “bit of paint” is a stab into the heart of our culture. The culture that makes people proud to live in decent surroundings. Pihema Cameron certainly didn’t deserve to die, but a fat whie middle-aged man does not chase two 15 year olds 300m down a street and catch up to them. I think the jury saw a man who was goaded beyond his ability to cope. I think they acknowleged that the two youths turned on him and came at him and he defended himself. He didn’t stab the guy in the back you know.
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February 14, 2009 11:28am
getstaffed

“I can’t hack it … I just stay at home and bum around and get stoned and drink alcohol,” Aquitania [Cameron] said.

I can’t imagine what it must be like to loose a sibling at that age. Just horrible. Regardless, Aquitania’s response shows – to me at least – a complete lack of maturity, a sense of defeatism and a willingness to let her own life go down the gurgler. Shit happens. Really bad shit happens. It does. But it’s how we choose to respond determines the outcome. To think otherwise is to become a lifelong victim of circumstance. And we have too many NZers in that space IMO.
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February 14, 2009 11:31am
PhilBest

reid (2012) Vote: 1 0 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 9:13 am
“What do you think of this prediction from Gerald Celente: 2009 will bring the worst economic collapse ever.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nJ7LM3iyNg

“This guy is extremely astute. He predicted sub-prime and many other trends.”

Reid, I have tried to give you a positive karma point and the system isn’t letting me.

I wish Kiwibloggers would take more notice of this posting and others like it. We are in times of serious crisis.

The more I look into it, the more economists etc I find have been warning and predicting what was going to happen as a result of housing bubbles, money supply inflation, and increasing debt.

This guy is the most pessimistic I have seen yet, but I have similar fears to him, I just thought it would take a few years for all that stuff to happen, I didn’t think it would be “this year”.

Wake up, everyone, watch the vid, and say something.

Ludwig Von Mises:

“……No one can find a safe way out for himself if society is sweeping towards destruction. Therefore everyone, in his own interests, must thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle. None can stand aside with unconcern; the interests of everyone hang on the result……”
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February 14, 2009 11:33am
calendar girl

” … I wouldn’t and most others too, wouldn’t raise such disrespectful children. However that’s all it is: it’s a disrespectful act, not a violent one.”

It’s a bit more than a “disrespectful act”, Reid – it’s also a premeditated criminal act, and a fairly high-profile criminal act in that it attracts a great deal of community resentment and media comment. But if you were merely trying to convey that it wasn’t the most serious crime ever committed, then without condoning it I can agree with you.
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February 14, 2009 11:35am
PhilBest

Reid, I presume you have also seen this interview between the same “Russia Today” interviewer and Peter Schiff this time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSparys6duU
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February 14, 2009 11:38am
dad4justice

“We are in times of serious crisis.”

I wonder when we start the depression?
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February 14, 2009 11:39am
PhilBest

Brian Smaller (730) Vote: 2 0 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 11:28 am
“……Pihema Cameron certainly didn’t deserve to die, but a fat white middle-aged man does not chase two 15 year olds 300m down a street and catch up to them. I think the jury saw a man who was goaded beyond his ability to cope. I think they acknowleged that the two youths turned on him and came at him and he defended himself. He didn’t stab the guy in the back you know.”

Thank you, Brian Smaller; my very thoughts. Has what the fat white middle aged man really did, been fairly reported?
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February 14, 2009 11:42am
greenfly

ORGANIC food that is. When, oh when will the National Party recognise the value of organic growing and farming to the people and environment of New Zealand?
Answer: at the same time as they win the hearts of the ‘green body’ of the voting public. The two go hand in hand. (But I’m not holding my breath).
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February 14, 2009 11:42am
Redbaiter

“Aquitania’s response shows – to me at least – a complete lack of maturity, a sense of defeatism and a willingness to let her own life go down the gurgler.”

She has been inculcated with the ideas and the language of the Progressives. By means of the education system, the media and the political system, millions of such dysfunctional mental derelicts are being produced, and the purpose is to ensure that the left (AGatha and his comrades) have the political power that is their obsession.
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February 14, 2009 11:43am
Redbaiter

“at the same time as they win the hearts of the ‘green body’ of the voting public.”

Fucking politicians trying to do that have caused some of the worst disasters in modern times. So called “green” politicians elected by mungbeans like you are responsible for much of the loss of life that occurred during the recent Australian bushfires. Making people plant trees close to their houses and refusing them permission to clear scrub. You are in fact a poison in the electorate, scare mongering and playing on the fears of the ignorant in order to carve a place for yourself on the political spectrum, and to seek power over others.
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February 14, 2009 11:50am
reid

I’m interested to know what you would do if your 15 year old acted in this way. Maybe we could pitch a new reality TV show to TVNZ. Big Bruv and Patrick Starr go into South Auckland and take a bunch of 15 year old truants in hand, putting them on the straight and narrow with their amazing parenting skills. It would be a cross between Super Nanny and Ross Kemp visiting the gangs of the world.

I think you miss the point, AG. By the time they’re 15, it’s way too late. The time to instill respect, discipline and love both in yourself and toward others, is from birth to 3 years old. If you don’t do it then, it’s very hard to turn it around.

Most parents when they have children are too unsophisticated to realise that intellectually, so if they do it they do it based not on a conscious decision but on their emotional state. Fortunately nature instills in parents certain attributes that lend parents toward that behaviour. For example there’s a hormone in mothers that literally forces them to love their child for the first 6 months or so. It takes a lot of emotional dysfunction to act against that natural instinct but it can be done and are seeing those results in our courts with increasing frequency because more and more families with inter-generational emotional dysfunction are appearing.

It’s utterly appalling and quite frankly distressing to me, because to me, the fix is simple and obvious. Drop the wrong-headed thinking that states the socio-economic environment operates upon people as if they are inevitably forced to do what they do. That’s fucked in the head territory. It basically assumes that humans are helpless automatons without freedom of choice, helplessly swept up by their circumstances. Every single fucking day that’s proven wrong millions of times around the world and yet, fucked in the head lefties continue to focus upon it as if it’s the only game in town.

I repeat what I said above. Attitudes cost nothing. Attitudes are the root cause of all behaviour. Period. Attitudes are responsible for both destructive and productive behaviour. If you don’t understand that then you understand nothing whatsoever about human life on this earth.

If you wanted to get rich, would you study poor people? And yet, that’s what most social scientists who want to address this problem do. They study the people who commit the crimes instead of studying the people who don’t. So FFS, do some science that seeks to understand the root causes of why that group of people who grow up poor, don’t do crime, and use it to fix the attitudes in those that do. It’s not rocket science, is it?
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February 14, 2009 11:51am
reid

But if you were merely trying to convey that it wasn’t the most serious crime ever committed, then without condoning it I can agree with you.

That was my point, calendar girl.
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February 14, 2009 11:58am
billyborker

Patrick Starr (1590) Vote: 2 1 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 11:18 am
AG says
“And are you seriously surprised/outraged that a mother who has lost a son would be moved to hit anyone who came up to her and “laughed in her face” about this? Seriously? Honestly? Right then…”

yet the lefties like borker defended this piece of shit
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/an_invalids_beneficiary.html
for doing exactly that – Mother of murderer laughing in the face of the murder victims family

Do you pinkos deliberately set out to be so hypocritical – or is it just instinctive?

Losing the argument about Emery, poor old Paddy Stark drags in the irrlevant.

I have not, and never will, defend those who deliberatly flout the law in the way that either Emery or Campbell did. But what I will do is point out the stupidity of the stupid who think murder is excuseable because some beneficiary somewhere did something.
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February 14, 2009 11:59am
Patrick Starr

@11.51 – “If you wanted to get rich, would you study poor people?”
excellent post Reid.
The problem in this country is that the likes of AG, borker et-al place the ‘have nots’ on a pedestal, then sit back and teach them to resent the ‘have’s’

Borker – you seriously are a fuckwit. Read my 10.53
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February 14, 2009 12:03pm
big bruv

Reid

15 is not to late to change them, yes it is a shit load harder but it can be done.

HOWEVER, the rules and restrictions imposed upon us by the left mean that it is near impossible, there are many good meaning people who have tried in the past yet at each and every turn there is some limp wristed pinko screaming about discipline or authority and soon as one of these little low life’s is put under a bit of pressure.
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February 14, 2009 12:08pm
greenfly

Redbaiter – “playing on the fears of the ignorant” The ignorant? Who would they be then? The public?
I take it you are refering to the ‘Blue-green’ arm of the National party
“Fucking politicians trying to do that have caused some of the worst disasters in modern times,”
and their front-man Nick Smith. You might be right, they may cause terrible damage – certainly the changes they have planned for the RMA look set to do just that.
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February 14, 2009 12:10pm
PhilBest

Redbaiter, now that you raise it, even the Fairfax papers are doing it; throwing the Green sacred cow under the bus:

“Green Ideas Must Take Blame For Deaths”; Miranda Devine; Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/green-ideas-must-take-blame-for-deaths-20090211-84mk.html?page=-1

I wonder if that opinion will make it into our Fairfax papers?

And even Germaine Greer is onto it:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25048576-2702,00.html

“OUTSPOKEN academic Germaine Greer has branded Australian authorities arsonists for failing to carry out regular burn-offs, which she says could have prevented the deadly Victorian bushfires.

Greer said Australians were paying the price for repeatedly ignoring the lessons of past bushfires – the need for burn-offs in cooler months to lessen the risk of blazes in the summer.

“I was born in 1939 and Melbourne was under black clouds of smoke with cinders sifting down everywhere and we were already there on Black Friday,” she said in London.

“We get taught the same lesson again and again and we just think: `Oh no, that’s a bit drastic’. No, it’s not a bit drastic, we have to do it.

“It’s the same old story. We need to educate people, we need to also have a bit of courage and we probably need somebody to direct the operation.

“It’s useless running around looking for arsonists. The arsonists are us. They are our government and our administrators. We have been stupid.”

Greer was speaking while attending a function with Prince Charles in London to celebrate the fifth anniversary of the Royal Flying Doctor Service’s charity in the UK…..”

How about THAT, Redbaiter?

Did you think you’d ever read something Germaine Greer said that you’d agree with?
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February 14, 2009 12:13pm
Inventory2

billyborker said “I have not, and never will, defend those who deliberatly flout the law in the way that either Emery or Campbell did. But what I will do is point out the stupidity of the stupid who think murder is excuseable because some beneficiary somewhere did something.”

billy – twelve peers or yours and mine listened to every word of evidence, and concluded that Emery was NOT guilty of murder, but was guilty of manslaughter. Therefore, your continued references to murder are totally irrelevant. BOTH families have been traumatised by this sad event, and I’m sure that Cameron’s mother will be wondering why she was in Perth, while relatives tried to care for her children. Likewise, I am sure that Emery’s wife will be wishing he had acted differently.
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February 14, 2009 12:16pm
Redbaiter

“their front-man Nick Smith”

Why are you commies often so superficial. I’ll tell you. There’s two kinds. The kind that know of the deceit that is going down because they’re the ones doing the deceiving, (the Mintos) , and the gape jawed simpletons who are so easily manipulated by the Mintos. (Greenblowfly)

Nick Smith is merely another pawn on the big political chess board. The real problem is the global propagandists who have forced the false religion of environmentalism to the forefront of the political scene. For example, those who indoctrinate (like Hitlerian fascists) our school children with environmental propaganda instead of educating them.

Its not about Nick Smith you mungbean, its about global politics and power.
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February 14, 2009 12:19pm
Redbaiter

“Did you think you’d ever read something Germaine Greer said that you’d agree with?”

Yeah I read that, and I don’t believe it. I’ll keep my powder dry for now. Tar babies and all that.
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February 14, 2009 12:22pm
reid

Reid, I presume you have also seen this interview between the same “Russia Today” interviewer and Peter Schiff this time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSparys6duU

No, I hadn’t Phil and thanks for that. You and Shiff and I all agree on this. Shiff says the US needs higher interest rates. He’s utterly correct and I said so when Bernanke started dropping them last year. The US authorities actions are going to lead to the collapse of the USD, believe it. Obama is NOT going to stop that happening, based on current observation thus far.

Some people forget that the property bubble began when Greenspan dropped the interest rates to near zero in the middle of the dot-bomb debacle. That action simply transferred that bubble from technology stocks into the property market. He did that calculatedly and deliberately, knowing what the effect of his actions would be. (If he didn’t know, then he should not have been the Chair of the Fed). This is one of the specific reasons why I have said for years that the govt of the US consistently acts against the best interests of its own people.

As Celente said, 2009 will see a collapse in commercial property, that will be the beginning of the end. Virtually the only hardcore manufacturing remaining in America is in the defense and the auto industries. That’s why I argued it was necessary to save the auto industry. America has no engine-room to drive itself out of this calamity. They “offshored” it over the last 15 years. As Shiff says, all the govt can do to get out of this is print money. Perhaps they haven’t heard about Zimbabwe yet?

All of this is quite separate to the fundamental structural issues they have in the finance sector and the shit hasn’t hit the fan there yet either. Those derivatives are going to kill most of the major players unless something really sneaky is going on behind the scenes and I wouldn’t put it past them to do that because the people who own those institutions behind all those front companies are not going to stand by and just let their assets disappear, although it’s entirely possible that they might just allow them to quietly morph into something else whilst letting mom and pop lose their life savings.

The whole thing’s pretty amazing isn’t it. We are living in interesting times. Personally if I were you, I’d keep a very close eye on the geopolitics in places like Russia, Israel, China, Iran, US and Europe. We are going to see some fundamental transitions there and while I’m not yet sure what exactly those will be, I am fairly sure that those areas will be the lead indicators for whatever is about to happen geopolitically, over the next 3-5 year time scale.
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February 14, 2009 12:23pm
reid

HOWEVER, the rules and restrictions imposed upon us by the left mean that it is near impossible, there are many good meaning people who have tried in the past yet at each and every turn there is some limp wristed pinko screaming about discipline or authority and soon as one of these little low life’s is put under a bit of pressure.

It’s fucking tragic isn’t it Big Bruv?

Why are lefties so fucking stupid that they can’t see that their actions are producing exactly the result that they claim to be against?

Why don’t they understand that touchy-feely is not kindness, it’s stupidity?

Fucked if I understand it. It does my head in. I mean, they claim to weally weally care. Yet it’s so fucking obvious that their approach isn’t working yet they keep falling into the old ‘definition of insanity’ trap. It’s not as if they’re ALL stupid although some of them are, and another group of them, mostly the younger ones, are naive as well. But FFS, once you reach a certain level of life, you start to get insights into human behaviour and it’s those insights that appears to completely bypass their logic circuits. It’s as if they’re wired differently from the rest of humanity and something fundamental has gone wrong in the clown factory. Personally I try not to think about it too much because it just makes me mad and that’s a stupid reaction but I mean fuck, what can you say.
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February 14, 2009 12:39pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Was only paint on somebodies own property.

Funny thing is, it was only beer that I accidentally spilt in that bar.

Without the premeditated thought of being controversial.

Before you know it, there were 3 bro’s abusing me.

Retaliation is best before action.

The big one went off with a very broken nose, and the little aggressive one limped away with a much higher voice.

The last one just fucked off with his mates.

So please don’t tell me that these little shits are innocent. They are pissed up, drugged up, and have attitude in buckets.

Then the big fucker arrived looking for me. The Cousin, and his mate. An invitation to have a glass event, was turned down.

Only because they thought I was much crazier than them.
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February 14, 2009 12:41pm
greenfly

Redbaiter – the ‘Gardens in Schools’ programme is ‘Hitlerian facism’? You are frightened by peas, carrots and silver beet? (I already know beans send shivers of fright down your spine). You are a nervy fellow!
Love how readily you (and PhilBest) have embraced the anti-tree spin from .. Germaine Greer !!! Hero of yours is she Phil? A voice of reason for the Right? Riiiiight!
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February 14, 2009 12:43pm
big bruv

And to change the subject entirely……

I see that many airlines are considering allowing cell phone use on flights…..FUCK THAT!!!

All I can say is that they had better not place any bloody serial txter in the seat next to me or any prick who cannot manage his life without making a cell phone call for six or seven hours, I honestly believe that I would be hard pressed not to rip the thing from his or her hands and smash it into a million pieces.
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February 14, 2009 12:47pm
greenfly

PhilBest – we often heard it said that the Greens can’t claim every idea as their own, just because it is environmentally beneficial (home insulation etc) but now the blame for the retention of trees around homes in Australia is to be laid at the feet of the ‘greens’. Nice selective logic there Phil!
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February 14, 2009 12:48pm
big bruv

Glute

Well done, and boy are you right…..NOBODY wants to take on a madman.
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February 14, 2009 12:48pm
Viking2

Report in the paper today that mother was in Perth earning a living. Now that’s a good way to manage your 15 yr old.

Next question then is who was responsible for him and who supplied him and his mate with ;
1. the alcohol and or the money to buy it. ( 15 year olds are not allowed to be sold booze, its against the law, or was it stolen?)
2. Who supplied him with the paint? It is illegal to sell cans to those under 18 ( not supplied free by those that sell these products.)
3. Who supplied him and his mate with cannabis and or the money to buy the cannabis. (Not supplied free by Winz as far as I know.)

When mother fronts up with the truthful answers to those questions and the POLICE arrest and charge those responsible I will then ask her how a middle aged fat man was to defend himself against an attack by two boozed and doped teenagers. It clearly must have been an attack on him because the deceased scum was knifed in the front, not in the back which clearly means they must have been confronting one another, i.e. face to face.

And when she gets to the truth of that she just might come to the realization that her son was author of his own misfortune.

And i might add that the MSM’s attempt to portray the rich against the poor by continually calling Emery a business man is slimy and churlish. He was a self employed person in a SME, the backbone of NZ businesses and most are doing well if they earn sufficient to keep an owners family.
That is as bad as The Standards attempt at racism.
Talking of which the family were aware and either were complicit in or condoned the writing and published recording of a rap song about the killing. All before sentencing. There are two things about that.

It could well be interpreted rightly as an attempt to pervert the course of justice either directly or indirectly by endeavoring to influence the courts decision. The late departed Dixon was going to retrial because it was alleged that a juror was influenced by looking at the INTERNET. Does radio not have the same influence?

The rap song is clearly a racist song, may well represent untrue or unknown facts about the killing and it and its authors and producers should be taken to the race relations commissioner, as should the Standard, for publishing racist material and inciting racial disharmony.

Interesting to note that someone blogged that the amount of tagging had gone right down after the killing. Now we won’t put that down to police initiatives so we have to say that there is some good that has happened. In the BOP we had a boyracer killed and that has had the same affect. Not too many about now that reality has to be faced.

Hasn’t had quite the same affect on drunk drivers or “p” addicts yet unfortunately.

t
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February 14, 2009 12:50pm
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter – the ‘Gardens in Schools’ programme is ‘Hitlerian facism’?”

If you won’t listen to me, maybe you’ll listen to this guy. Or is reason far beyond you?

—————————————————–

Save The Children (From Global Warming Propaganda)
By Marc Sheppard

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the Future
– Adolf Hitler, 1935

No regime in modern history exploited propaganda as diabolically and successfully as did the Third Reich, thanks, in large part, to its focus on those most vulnerable to their ideological manipulation — children. And with more American adults seeing the cold truth behind warming misinformation, alarmists are stepping up efforts to brainwash our schoolchildren using a playbook that would have impressed Joseph Goebbels himself.

Of course, green schooling was surreptitiously introduced years ago when teachers began espousing benign environmental distractions like “Earth Day.” But trendy nontoxic slogans like “reduce, reuse, recycle” eventually opened the door to the destructive propaganda of teaching Al Gore’s scientifically-challenged movie in science classes. Which soon facilitated a California Law mandating unbalanced Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) theories be included in public school curricula. And that paved the way for today’s second installment of a malignant little program cleverly crafted to indoctrinate our impressionable youth on a chillingly massive scale.

Rest of article at

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/save_the_children_from_global.html
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February 14, 2009 12:59pm
dime

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO

we now know some details about Paula Bennetts future son in law. he sounds charming.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10556722

“The gang-member boyfriend of Paula Bennett’s daughter used a fence paling to attack a man, who suffered a broken jaw and a 10cm head gash, the Weekend Herald can reveal.”

“Halaholo and a group of friends were walking down the road when they saw a party at a house. They went inside and demanded cigarettes and alcohol but were escorted outside as it was a private party.”

this is pretty much standard for a west auckland party.

back in my day, every party would have a group of big brown boys turn up to steal alcohol and cause fights. the funny times would be when there was a free keg… free alcohol.. they would stand around and not know what to do.

it hasnt changed 15 years later. a mates cousin got beaten up by 3 islanders.. at his own 21st birthday party.. cause he went out to his car by himself. after dealing to him, they then walked down the road smashing cars up.. cops got them in the end.

just pieces of garbage.

anyway, back to his Mp’s son in law. what a fuckin nutbar. can you imagine picking up a fence paling and smashing someone around the head with it???????????
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February 14, 2009 12:59pm
greenfly

Redbaiter – that’s a’yes’ then, to fear of vegetables? The thin edge of a Facism in our schools! Beware the loaded carrot! Keep a wary eye on those radishes, THEY ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM! Really Redbaiter !
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February 14, 2009 1:04pm
Ross Miller

Gueeez, people are angry today. I know Otago lost last night but ……………….
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February 14, 2009 1:04pm
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter – that’s a’yes’ then, to fear of vegetables?”

Leave our children alone you fascist scumbag. Your ideas will not withstand logical scrutiny so you surreptitiously introduce them into society by indoctrinating the ignorant, gullible and innocent. Just like Adolf did.
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February 14, 2009 1:10pm
Redbaiter

“The big one went off with a very broken nose, and the little aggressive one limped away with a much higher voice. The last one just fucked off with his mates.”

Not a bad effort for a girl.
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February 14, 2009 1:13pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Yes RB, not bad for a girl.

Perhaps you might like a Liverpool Kiss and a Glasgow Knee sometime.

You aren’t allowed to hit females though!
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February 14, 2009 1:20pm
reid

RB re: your 12:59 about environmental propaganda in schools, the lefties were also doing it for social engineering as well. I recall a concerned parent showing me a booklet his adolescent had been given in sex-ed that had a full frontal drawing of a naked guy and girl. The guy’s semi-hard penis was drawn laying over the girl’s belly with cum splashes on her belly.

I mean fuck, what’s that about. She was 11, that was in the early 90’s. Imagine what they get now.

Lefties who advocate that sort of shit are fucking insidious social engineering scum.

Most people don’t recall or never saw the significance in the fact that Lange as PM appointed himself as Minister of Education. The PM, as Minister of Education? Unheard of, then and since. Implementing shit like I described above is precisely why he did it.

I completely agree, get all of this social engineering, environmental propaganda bullshit out of our schools, right now. Who’s the Minister of Ed now?
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February 14, 2009 1:22pm
Inventory2

Excellent post Viking2. I too wonder about this whole situation where the mother heads off around a third of the way round the world to get a job, leaving her teenaged son in the care of other family, knowing that he has already shown anti-social tendancies. And I wonder to about a family which allows a 14 year old to leave school and get drunk and stoned because she “can’t hack” school any more after her cousin was killed. Little wonder our “decent society” is going to hell on a handcart.
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February 14, 2009 1:29pm
Redbaiter

“Who’s the Minister of Ed now?”

I think its Bill English, but it doesn’t really matter because they’re damn sure not going to do what’s needed. The problem is bigger than any one politician and sure as hell bigger than the National Party.
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February 14, 2009 1:29pm
reid

Yeh the Bolger/Shipley govt sure as hell did precisely zero.

Who knows, Key does seem pretty onto it and he MAY decide to tackle it, but it’s fairly well entrenched now amongst all the teachers. They’d scream pretty loudly due to their permanent confusion about what’s the right thing and what’s the wrong thing to do.

If only the bloody reef-fish would understand and I’ve often thought: fight fire with fire. Get some propaganda of our own going that talks about the dangers of insidious leftist propaganda and gives examples – if it was done right that might wake the reef-fish up.
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February 14, 2009 1:38pm
Paul Marsden

According to the locals, ‘tagging in the area stopped overnight’. Therein lies a powerful message about the punishment fitting the crime, and how one member of society accomplished in less than a heart-beat, what the authorities and the courts have failed to accomplish, ever. Society reaps what it sows.
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February 14, 2009 1:45pm
baxter

ORGANIC food that is. When, oh when will the National Party recognise the value of organic growing and farming to the people and environment of New Zealand?
Don’t worry GREENFLY good old Papatanuku will soon make it clear to them.
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February 14, 2009 1:47pm
Inventory2

Minister of Education is Anne Collins – greenfly’s fave – who last week changed the regulations for tuck shops having to nsell only healthy food and passed the decisionmaking back to Baords of Trustees, from whom it should never have been removed.

And as one employed in education, I was encouraged when she said this:

“This change will help schools to concentrate on core business – providing students with a quality education and learning environment and concentrating on improving education standards.”

“Providing students with a quality education and learning environment and concentrating on improving education standards” sounds like a far better goal for our schools than being agents for untested social experiments IMHO.
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February 14, 2009 1:49pm
Portia

Reid:
That’s why I argued it was necessary [for the US] to save the auto industry.

Yes, but not by propping up a dying corpse. Did you see this article by Thomas Friedman a couple of months back?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html
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February 14, 2009 1:56pm
PhilBest

greenfly (331) Vote: 0 4 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
“Redbaiter……..Love how readily you (and PhilBest) have embraced the anti-tree spin from .. Germaine Greer !!! Hero of yours is she Phil? A voice of reason for the Right? Riiiiight!”

Greenfly; can you not read, or not comprehend?

I SAID:

“Redbaiter; Did you think you’d ever read something Germaine Greer said that you’d agree with?”

And Redbaiter replied:

“Yeah I read that, and I don’t believe it. I’ll keep my powder dry for now. Tar babies and all that.”

It really, really sounds like we both admire Germaine Greer, doesn’t it?

The whole point of my posts is that you Greens are poison right now; even the Sydney Morning Herald is throwing you under the bus, and even Germaine Greer has broken with the leftwing/Green solidity sacred cow……EVEN GERMAINE GREER….note that Redbaiter still doesn’t believe she really said that….if she did, boy it shows just how low you Greens rate right now.
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February 14, 2009 2:01pm
PhilBest

reid (2023) Vote: 3 0 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“RB re: your 12:59 about environmental propaganda in schools, the lefties were also doing it for social engineering as well. I recall a concerned parent showing me a booklet his adolescent had been given in sex-ed that had a full frontal drawing of a naked guy and girl. The guy’s semi-hard penis was drawn laying over the girl’s belly with cum splashes on her belly.

I mean fuck, what’s that about. She was 11, that was in the early 90’s. Imagine what they get now.

Lefties who advocate that sort of shit are fucking insidious social engineering scum….”

Hear, Hear. But it’ll be all about how “normal” boy/boy and girl/girl sex is now, in the “cause” of eliminating “bigotry”…..
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February 14, 2009 2:05pm
PhilBest

reid (2023) Vote: 3 0 Says:

February 14th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

“…..No, I hadn’t Phil and thanks for that. You and Shiff and I all agree on this. Shiff says the US needs higher interest rates. He’s utterly correct and I said so when Bernanke started dropping them last year. The US authorities actions are going to lead to the collapse of the USD, believe it. Obama is NOT going to stop that happening, based on current observation thus far.

Some people forget that the property bubble began when Greenspan dropped the interest rates to near zero in the middle of the dot-bomb debacle. That action simply transferred that bubble from technology stocks into the property market. He did that calculatedly and deliberately, knowing what the effect of his actions would be. (If he didn’t know, then he should not have been the Chair of the Fed)…..”

Reid, if you haven’t read “I, Greenspan” by Bill Bonner, prepare for a good hoot now:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner188.html
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February 14, 2009 2:09pm
PhilBest

And that may just be a case of a true word spoken in jest……

From “I, Greenspan”, by Bill Bonner

“…..Yes, I, Alan Greenspan, ruled the financial world. But who ruled Alan Greenspan? Ah…I will come to that, and tell you how, while presiding over the biggest boom ever I became caught in what I may call the “golden predicament” from which I have never since become disentangled.

This is not by any means the first thing I have written. I have written much over the years. But it was all written for a purpose, which only a few were able to discern. Most readers foolishly saw the cluttered mind of a dithering economist or the clumsy, stuttering pen of a professional bureaucrat…..

“……Scarcely had I settled into to the big chair at the Fed when a crisis was thrust upon me. And it is true, I responded in the conventional manner. There is no manual for central bankers, but there is a code of behavior. Faced with a financial crisis of any sort, a central banker’s first duty is to run to the monetary valves and open them. This I did in 1987. I was new to the job and probably didn’t open them enough. The U.S. economy lagged its rivals in Europe for several years. My old boss, George Bush, the elder, lost his bid for re-election in 1992 and blamed it on me. I resolved never to make that mistake again. Faced with a slew of challenges, shocks, uncertainties, crises and elections…ever thereafter, I made sure that every valve, throttle, level, switch and sluice gate was wide open.

But it was on December 5, 1996, that I had my first epiphany. That was the year that I made my celebrated remark about stock prices. I wondered aloud if they did not reflect a kind of “irrational exuberance.” In truth, whether they did or did not, I do not know. But what I came to realize was this: 1) People, especially my employers, actually wanted prices that were irrationally exuberant. And 2) they could become far more irrationally exuberant if we put our minds to it.

I was 70 years old at the time. I had weaseled (why not be honest about it?) my way to the top post by knowing the right people and by making myself generally agreeable, and helpful, and by not saying anything anyone could disagree with. That was the original reason for what the press called “Greenspan speak.” My private thoughts remained mine alone. All the public and the politicians got was gobbledygook, but for good reason.

They would not have wanted to hear what I really thought. So, I did not tell them. For I knew well and good what generally happened when politicians and central bankers got their hands on soft money and a compliant central banker. I was not born yesterday. They use their control of the money to cheat people. It is as simple as that. (I explained this early on in my career; fortunately, no one bothered to read what I wrote. Otherwise, I never would have gotten the job.) If central banking were an honest métier, there would be no reason to have it at all. Private banks could do the job better.

But people are ready to believe anything. Somehow, they think that a collection of rich financiers and power-mad politicians got together to create and run a central bank for the benefit of the people! Well, I’ve got news: it doesn’t work that way…..

“……A successful central banker, in the age of compliant paper money, is one who is able to control the rate of ruin so that the rubes don’t catch on. A little bit of inflation, they believe, is actually healthy. Haven’t the economists told them so? Issuing a little bit more money each year makes people feel richer…so they spend more; they hire more people; they build more houses. Everybody is happy. Everyone feels richer. What an elegant fraud! It’s almost a perfect crime, because no one objects as long as it is done right. (My replacement at the Fed, Ben Bernanke, specializes in controlling the rate at which central bankers can steal from dollar holders without getting caught. He says that if necessary, he’ll “drop money from helicopters” should the currency fail to lose value fast enough. I predict that there will be a lot of people who will want to drop him from a helicopter…for reasons I will explain here.)

I return to my narrative. After I made my remark about “irrational exuberance,” I was called into Congress. The politicians who confronted me were the usual oafs and know-nothings. They made it clear that if I wanted to hold onto my job, I would have to stop worrying whether asset prices were too high; instead, I would need to do all I could to goose them up! It was on that very day, I recall it well, that what I had previously seen only in foggy theory came out into the clear, bright daylight of applied central banking.

No one wants honest money. No one. The politicians, bankers, investors, voters, and householders – anyone with a voice in the matter wants “easy” money. It is just too delicious to resist. (I wondered what kind of a central banker would stand against them; he would need a backbone of titanium like Paul Volcker, and a head as thick and hard as a vault.) Debtors want a little inflation to lighten their burdens and put a wind to their backs. Creditors want inflation to swell their asset values. Politicians want to be re-elected. Businessmen want customers with money to throw around. Is there anyone who doesn’t appreciate a little inflation?

And yet, of course, I always knew the answer. Easy money only works by defrauding people into thinking they have more money than they really do. Easy come; easy go. They get it; they spend it. Before you know it, you have a boom. But people soon adjust their expectations. Prices rise to catch up to new money. Debt levels increase, and with them come heavier debt service costs. The magic fades. What can a central banker do? He can do the right thing. He can “take the punch bowl away,” as my predecessors used to say. But this is where the trouble begins. Take away the punch bowl, and they begin punching you! I recall they burned Paul Volcker in effigy on the Capital steps when he did it. They would have burned him alive if they could have gotten their hands on him.

Why should I, Greenspan, suffer such a fate? No, it was not for me. This was the “golden predicament” I faced. Yes, I knew well that the nation would be better off if the punch bowl were removed, but I knew that I would be removed too, if I did it. And I knew, also, that it would be just a matter of time until the pressure for easy money would overwhelm any resistance a Fed chairman could put up. No pure paper money system has ever lasted. People can never resist the temptation to make the money easier and easier…until it is so wobbly and woozy it falls on its face. It’s better that it falls sooner rather than later. It’s better that the lesson is taught now, rather than 10 years from now. It’s better that the lean times come on the next man’s watch, not on mine! That’s what I owe to old Ayn; she taught me who rules Greenspan – Greenspan! Ayn taught me the number one rule: Look out for Numero Uno.

I remember it so clearly. I was sitting in a House committee hearing room. My tormentors kept asking questions. I kept giving the kind of answers for which I later became famous…answers that didn’t say anything. And I thought to myself: if these lardheads want easy money, I’ll give them easy money. I’ll give them the easiest money the planet has ever seen! I’ll give it to them good and hard!…..

“…..But that is the smooth, perverse pleasure a cynical old man takes in his achievements. I have practically ruined the nation, and I know it. If you distributed the cost of the federal government’s programs, promises, and pledges to the voters, along with the nation’s private debt, the typical household, and the nation itself, would be broke. And yet, almost everywhere I go, I am revered as a maestro…saluted as if I were a war hero. It is as if I had won World War II all by myself. The same numbskulls that wanted easy money 10 years ago, now praise me for causing what they call “The Great Moderation,” as if there were anything moderate about America’s borrowing binge.

Others say that my real legacy is that I finally “made central banking work.” Yes, I made it work…just like it’s supposed to work, giving the people enough rope so they could hang themselves. That’s what they’ve done. Now, they dangle from a long rope of mortgages, deficits and credit cards.

And I am delighted. Soon, people will be able to see how central banking really works……”

WRITTEN BY BILL BONNER IN JANUARY 2006.

Do follow the link in the previous posting and read the whole thing

Bill Bonner is just one of a long list, and getting longer, of people that I am discovering who saw all this coming, and were not listened to; mocked, even.
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February 14, 2009 2:20pm
greenfly

“Who’s the Minister of Ed now?”

I think its Bill English, but it doesn’t really matter”
Thanks redbaiter, that’s a classic!
Inventory2 corrects you with: “Minister of Education is Anne Collins”
Thanks Inv2, that’s added to my joy (and my understanding of the depth of knowledge here)!
I’ll have a shot at it …ummm.. Trolley? Wally? …Tolley! That’s it!!!
And it DOES matter! She hasn’t a clue! . $3000 fine for the parents of truants!!! Choice! The same ‘choice’ she’s offering school children – the ‘choice’ to keep the diabetes and obesity statistics up! Go Anne, ya’ wee beaut!
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February 14, 2009 2:22pm
reid

Reid: That’s why I argued it was necessary [for the US] to save the auto industry.

Yes, but not by propping up a dying corpse….

Thanks for that link, Portia. What I’m saying is that if you allow that manufacturing capability to die then you’re giving up a powerful tool that can be used for economic recovery. I completely agree with the tenor of that article that Detroit has been looking at the wrong thing and in ordinary times they should pay the capitalist price and cease to exist. However these aren’t ordinary times and that fact is really fundamental to my view on this issue.

I utterly agree with the article that the way forward is to expand into new technologies and within the auto field personally rather than hydrogen-fuel cells I would be looking at promising developments in hydrogen cracking technology and these new HHO gas technologies which provide for true water-powered vehicles because those technologies avoids the need to setup a new fuel-distribution network which costs billions if not trillions.

Outside the auto field I’d be looking at zero-point energy technology – scalar electromagnetics and the like. The US has huge scientific and engineering resources that could be harnessed in these fields and that’s what Obama should be directing its limited funds into. The govt has to do it because private companies face resistance from massively powerful vested interests who actively try and preserve the status quo in old technologies like oil because of their huge investments in these. The only thing powerful enough to take on these vested interests, is Uncle Sam.
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February 14, 2009 2:25pm
Redbaiter

“Thanks redbaiter, that’s a classic!”

Once again, you don’t get the real issue. English has a lot of ideas on Education and was the Opposition Spokesman, but no matter who is the actual Minister, the National Party cannot fix the problem because due to their incoherence on so many issues, they have allowed the left to outflank them again and again, and education in particular is now so firmly in the grip of the progressives it is only some global cataclysmic event that will free it.

Certainly not the confused and ineffectual National party, who as a result of their inability in articulating counter ideas to the left, have only one real remaining strategy and that is to look as much like the left as possible, and not do anything but the very least to disturb the status quo, in case the fickle poorly informed ideologically clueless mass of socialist voters get nervous and stampede back to whence they came.
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February 14, 2009 2:39pm
Inventory2

Thanks for that greenfly – the brain is a bit slow today!! But I don’t resile from the other comments in my post!
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February 14, 2009 2:41pm
reid

Hear, Hear. But it [sex education in schools] will be all about how “normal” boy/boy and girl/girl sex is now, in the “cause” of eliminating “bigotry”…..

What gets me Phil, is that even some otherwise strong conservatives like DPF fail for some reason to recognise the agenda behind all of this crap and fall lock, stock and barrel for the propaganda line that it’s all about ‘human rights.’

It’s not. It’s all about destruction of the integrity of the natural family unit for extremely insidious and destructive purposes and the fact that some don’t recognise that doesn’t make it untrue. If you understand history you can see the pattern which dates right back to before the communists and follows through birth control and the 60’s and the design of consumerism so as to require dual incomes just to merely experience a normal middle-class life. All these things and much much more are all connected and designed, they didn’t just happen by accident.
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February 14, 2009 3:27pm
Brian Smaller

ORGANIC food that is. When, oh when will the National Party recognise the value of organic growing and farming to the people and environment of New Zealand?

We grow a lot of our own veges. Totally organic. Nothing on them except water, sun and pony shit. I don’t need the National Party to tell me the value of growing them. However, if I have to buy veges I don’t buy organic produce from the supermarket as they cost too much. You cannot force people to eat what they don’t want to Greenfly.
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February 14, 2009 3:43pm
Inventory2

Intersting hypothesis reid – remembering back to my own formative years of the 1960’s-70’s, mothers who worked were by far in the majority. Wages weren’t high, but families seemed to want for not much. And the overwhelming majority of families had both a mother and a father.

We had different values then. If we were playing cricket or rugby in the back yard and the ball went over the fence, we’d go and ask the neighbour if we could get it back. We respected other peoples’ property (most of the time), and we respected the Police. It might not be fashionable to mention these days, but church was also a requirement on Sundays.

When did it all start to change?
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February 14, 2009 3:47pm
kiwipolemicist

Tanzania has an interesting method of educational reform: caning teachers in front of children. I kid you not.

Do you think that it would be popular and effective in NZ?

Why not extend it to other so-called public servants? 💡 How much you would pay for the opportunity of giving Herr Helen a public caning? 🙄

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/every-childs-dream-teachers-in-tanzania-caned/
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February 14, 2009 3:51pm
PhilBest

Reid, I take my hat off to you for that comment; YOU SAID IT:

“….What gets me Phil, is that even some otherwise strong conservatives like DPF fail for some reason to recognise the agenda behind all of this crap and fall lock, stock and barrel for the propaganda line that it’s all about ‘human rights.’

It’s not. It’s all about destruction of the integrity of the natural family unit for extremely insidious and destructive purposes and the fact that some don’t recognise that doesn’t make it untrue. If you understand history you can see the pattern which dates right back to before the communists and follows through birth control and the 60’s and the design of consumerism so as to require dual incomes just to merely experience a normal middle-class life. All these things and much much more are all connected and designed, they didn’t just happen by accident.”

That bit about the dual incomes, is one factor in the whole crisis we now have today. It is those dual incomes, combined with low interest rates and easy credit, that have driven up the price of houses and driven up the amount of debt that people are willing to take on. I am starting to see this clearer and clearer, as I read people like Steve Keen and Karl Denninger and the Von Mises economists; not that these people are making the connection with dual incomes. Besides the dual incomes, there are the selfish consumerist childless “single” lifestylers. The moral breakdown is having tragic consequences on the macroeconomic scale. Look at the pension bomb, too.

But in all this, it has become nigh on impossible to live a traditional christian family life, the State itself goes out of its way to penalise you and reward the opposite, societally destructive behaviour.
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February 14, 2009 3:53pm
kiwipolemicist

reid: you’re right about the Marxist agenda behind the destruction of the family unit. Marx said ““That the abolition of individual economy is inseparable from the abolition of the family is self-evident”.

I’ve covered that here:
“That the abolition of individual economy is inseparable from the abolition of the family is self-evident”

PhilBest: living a “traditonal christian family life” is difficult because the Marxists attack christianity – the root of Western culture – in order to destabilise that culture and bring about revolution.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/the-motives-of-the-liberal-left/

*****

A while ago a comment from Samuel Dennis got me thinking about why the Liberal Left is so successful:
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/the-liberal-left-agenda-in-new-zealand/
Then Samuel added a comment to that post pointing out that I’d forgetten to state the most obvious reason 🙂
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February 14, 2009 4:13pm
reid

How much you would pay for the opportunity of giving Herr Helen a public caning?

Quite a lot, kp.

Quite a lot. Especially if Peter was the one who was doing it. I’d imagine his years of pent-up domination from Helen might be quite cathartic for him.

OTOH, maybe in private that’s what happens anyway. You know, those twisted British politicians who enjoy a bit of masochism. Shudder. I think I’ve gone blind.
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February 14, 2009 4:16pm
kiwipolemicist

reid, try this re Marx and the family: http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/20/finding-out-which-politicians-are-family-friendly-and-why-the-rest-arent/

Sorry about that.

I’ve never met a dominatrix, but I imagine that Helen is a natural for the job.
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February 14, 2009 4:25pm
greenfly

“You cannot force people to eat what they don’t want to Greenfly.”
Well that’s right Brian, you have to get people to want to eat whatever you are offering them. McDonalds seem to have mastered that trick.
Organic veges from your own garden are number one. I wonder Brian, if you had a magic wand (bear with me 🙂 would you make organic food available to everyone (think of the improvement to health, the environment..) would you transform school canteens to 100% organic food, or would you like keep sugary, overprocessed, preservative laden ‘junk’ food as an option, so that the children can learn to ‘choose’ (given the pressure from junk food manufacturers through the medium of television, to ‘get children to want to buy and eat their products) for themselves? It seems to me a high-risk ‘experiment’ that ‘let children choose for themselves’ idea. The harm is already patently obvious and NActional seems intent on carrying on the same way. I’d be very interested to hear your views. Maybe even address my points, if you’d do me the honour.
greenfly
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February 14, 2009 4:33pm
reid

the State itself goes out of its way to penalise you and reward the opposite, societally destructive behaviour.

That’s very true Phil and also your 4:13, kp.

One of the very revealing moments of Hulun’s reign to me, was when she proposed a policy I think during her second term, that was going to restrict subsidised child day-care only to govt-approved “education” centres. I used “education” there for dramatic effect, but that’s precisely what she was angling for. She quickly realised it was a bridge too far and wound it back and the media never noticed it beyond merely reporting it was there one day and gone the next. But that was an example of her thinking – straight out of the commie playbook.

One area where perhaps I differ from one or both of you is that I personally also see designed destruction in conservative politics as well, but it’s not in the social engineering dimension it’s in the capitalist and military frameworks but anyhoo, just to see it anywhere I think is something that is a benefit when it comes to analysing politics and reality, despite what some uninformed people seem to think. It makes me laugh, quite honestly. One of my family who is also keen on politics is of the, shall we say, conventional mindset, and he thinks he knows what’s going on. He’s vehement that I’m quite wrong in my views. However, fact is, I not only understand exactly where he comes from, but I also understand other things as well. That combination allows me to see things coming like this GFC that completely bypass others until it hits page one of the Herald.

Sad, really. Ignorance is not really bliss, it’s foolishness when you’re dealing with this type of knowledge. Foolishness that has calamitous real effects. I’ve advised him to buy gold for years. He still hasn’t, preferring to stick with the wisdom that it’s not as serious as I make it out to be. Every day proves me right and him wrong, and he still doesn’t get it.
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February 14, 2009 4:34pm

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