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May 1, 2009 9:07am by David Farrar

General Debate 1 May 2009

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Chthoniid

Well, I appreciate the mayhem has already begun but hey, Friday morning means a new photo

http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p1022173332-5.jpg

I don’t usually do a lot of zoo shots, but the timing on this one worked well to my eye.

Mmm…good coffee (sip)
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May 1, 2009 9:10am
Rakaia George

Nice photo, that’s Limahl from 80’s popsters Kajagoogoo right?

On the music theme – did anyone see the Billy Gibbons bit on Breakfast this morning? Please tell me ZZ Top are coming, pleease…
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May 1, 2009 9:15am
gladstone

The

knees

are gone ( bugger! ) but there’s still plenty left, if you’re quick!
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May 1, 2009 9:21am
Murray

So thats where Cullen went.
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May 1, 2009 9:28am
cha

Great news, Brown defeated over Gurkha rules.

MPs voted by 267 to 246 for a Lib Dem motion offering all Gurkhas equal right of residence, with the Tories and 27 Labour rebels backing it
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May 1, 2009 9:48am
Patrick Starr

If you want a threat greater than Swineflu get an infection in this hospital. It’ll kill you quicker than any flu
Its been a national disgrace for the past decade

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10569713
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May 1, 2009 9:49am
bharmer

Chthoniid, I may not agree with every political thought you have, but count me among the fans and admirers of your superb photography. That’s a great image.

And on another matter, how the heck do you pronounce “Chthoniid” anyway. I have a vague idea of what they are (eg pseudoscorpions), but I end up with spray on my screen when I try to say it.

I am guessing that the first “ch” sounds as “k” and that the “th” that follows is soft (as in “thanks) , an that the two “i”s are pronounced separately?
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May 1, 2009 9:50am
Chuck Bird

Professor Bob Carter in on NewstalkZB guest of Leighton Smith just after the 10am news this morning to dispel myths about AGW.
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May 1, 2009 9:51am
side show bob

I bet pharmacy owners are rubbing their hands with glee. I see Tamiflu can be now brought over the counter. All the hypochondriac’s will be lining up, coughing and sneezing and claiming death is over their shoulder’s. There must be great relief in the pharmaceutical industry that God has sent the swine flu, considering all those stocks of Tamiflu were due to expire at the end of the year. I smell a stink but I don’t think it has any thing to do with pigs.
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May 1, 2009 10:00am
bharmer

I was in a normally busy pharmacy in Lower Hutt this morning (seeking relief for gout like symptoms). I expected to see a queue of people seeking Tamiflu. There was no one there except women buying cosmetics.
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May 1, 2009 10:09am
AG

CB:
“Professor Bob Carter in on NewstalkZB guest of Leighton Smith just after the 10am news this morning to dispel myths about AGW.”

While we’re on the subject of dispelling myths, let’s just note that Bob Carter has about as much credibility on this issue as … oh, I don’t know … Leighton Smith.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bob_Carter
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May 1, 2009 10:34am
infused

This year is going tooooooo fast 🙁
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May 1, 2009 10:34am
Chthoniid

Wow Rakaia G- that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. My MP3 player tends to 80’s alternative bands 😉 Good call though.

Murray- aah, another resemblance I had missed. If you were dedicated you could probably photo-shop Cullen’s face onto the image. But I’m not that dedicated…

bharmer- thanks. I usually go with the ‘Greek’ and pronounce is as hard ‘ch’ smoothly followed by ‘th’. But it varies with modern languages. English speakers normally treat the ‘ch’ as silent, while say German speakers say the ‘Ch’ but pronounce the th as ‘t’. I like photography- it puts me in a calm ‘place and time’.
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May 1, 2009 10:44am
Chthoniid

So, what about this P J O’Rourke fellow- how did the talk go last night?
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May 1, 2009 10:45am
paradigm

Police decide not to press charges against Tokoroa takeaway shop worker. I guess they got the picture after the last two self defense cases were thown out by JPs at depositions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10569750
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May 1, 2009 10:55am
andrei

let’s just note that Bob Carter has about as much credibility on this issue as … oh, I don’t know … Leighton Smith.

you make me laugh. A geologist who has spent a lifetime studying the way the climate has developed in the past has no credibility?

What you mean is he doesn’t go along with what you believe and challenges the status quo amongst so-called “climate scientists” – oh bear of little brain try thinking for yourself rather than running with the herd. It doesn’t hurt I promise and is rewarding when helps you avoid being scammed.
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May 1, 2009 10:55am
Inventory2

Another half-arsed beat-up from the Dom-Post this morning:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/05/shock-horror.html

I’d have thought Labour would have been applauding the government for being responsible with public spending!
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May 1, 2009 10:57am
lofty

The tok cops are tops.
They did their job and came up with the correct decision, as we would expect them to.
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May 1, 2009 10:58am
philu

muzza..!..another gun-nut-dyslexia-joke .. for your repertoire:..

what did the dyslexic gun-nut say to the naked woman sprawled in front of him..?

‘whoar..!..you’ve got a cunning stunt..!..

..can i barrel my stick into it..?..’f

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 11:10am
philu

(alt last line..)

‘can i dillinger my stick into it..?’

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 11:14am
Ryan Sproull

Philu,

That not a joke, it’s just random crassness. And that’s not dyslexic, it’s a spoonerism.

This is a joke:

Q: How many anarchists does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Haha, anarchists can’t change anything.
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May 1, 2009 11:19am
Ryan Sproull

Sorry, that’s not a joke, is what I meant.
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May 1, 2009 11:30am
philu

“..Philu,

That not a joke, it’s just random crassness.”

’tis not..!..

it’s muzza-baiting..!

(you just wait..soon he will crawl out of his (well-defended) fox-hole..

..and will give us a heartfelt/overwrought verse or two of..

‘poor poor..dyslexic me..!’

..a muzza-bait’ll usually get that result

..eh..?..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 11:31am
philu

“..Sorry, that’s not a joke, is what I meant.”

sshh!!…we understand .

…oh fellow-traveller of muzza..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 11:33am
Ryan Sproull

It’s the law of the internet. If you point out someone else’s mistake, you’re bound to make one yourself.
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May 1, 2009 11:35am
PhilBest

From Ian Wishart’s TBR.CC:

Global warming campaigner Bill McKibben, regarded as a climate change guru by Al Gore, has pulled out of a TV debate on global warming with Ian Wishart, the author of the controversial new climate change bestseller, Air Con: The Seriously Inconvenient Truth About Global Warming.

McKibben, who once famously blamed Hurricane Katrina on human-caused climate change, only to be embarrassed when scientific studies rubbished the claim, is touring New Zealand this week giving lectures on the threat of catastrophic global warming and urging people to financially support his new climate change lobby group, 350.

New Zealand’s TV3 Network had organized for a Friday morning debate between McKibben and Wishart, but the emails from TV3 below tell the story:

From: Alistair Wilkinson
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2009 5:40 p.m.
To: ian@investigatemagazine (Etc, email edited to avoid spam)
Cc: Stacey Murdoch
Subject: Sunrise appearance

Hi Ian,

Thanks for agreeing to take part in a debate on Friday with Bill McKibben on climate change. We’ll need you at TV3 at 645 for a 715 appearance. Mr McKibben will be in our Chch studio.

My colleague, Stacey Murdoch will be in contact to reconfirm tomorrow afternoon.

Best wishes

Alistair Wilkinson

http://tbr.cc/
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May 1, 2009 11:38am
PhilBest

Typical, eh?

The list of people that Al Gore and his cronies have refused to debate on AGW would fill several pages.
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May 1, 2009 11:41am
Ryan Sproull

Typical, eh?

The list of people that Al Gore and his cronies have refused to debate on AGW would fill several pages.

Of course. Now, no one flap their arms madly by going too far with the analogy, but:

Would you debate David Irving on television?
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May 1, 2009 11:43am
Brian Smaller

Rakaia George – ZZ Top are one Sharp Dressed Band.
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May 1, 2009 11:51am
Colonel Masters

I guess they got the picture after the last two self defense cases were thown out by JPs at depositions.

Or they got the picture after their bosses in the criminal Labour government were thown out by voters at election time.
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May 1, 2009 11:51am
philu

smaller..you like cartoon-rock..!

a kiss-fan too..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 11:56am
gladstone

Ian Wishart, debate? He cant. (No missing apostrophe there)
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May 1, 2009 12:00pm
village idiot

“The knees are gone ( bugger! ) but there’s still plenty left, if you’re quick!”
Ah Gladstone! The quick and the dead!
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May 1, 2009 12:28pm
RightNow

Good watching Wishart on Breakfast. Seemed very competent and reasonable. Would probably very well hold his own in a debate. I don’t know what your criteria or qualification for commenting is gladstone but you seem to be full of crap.
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May 1, 2009 12:56pm
Inventory2

RightNow – I strongly suspect that gladstone is our old friend greenfly reincarnated. That would confirm your final sentence 🙂
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May 1, 2009 1:03pm
PhilBest

Oh, come on, Ryan Sproull, I thought you were one of the world’s great sceptics. Do you honestly mean to admit that you have been sucked in that totally by the AGW scam?

Associating AGW “deniers” with David Irving, is a tactic more in kind with the Nazis than with the anti-Nazis.

Having read “Air Con”, although I have read many similar books already by people like James Horner and Patrick Michaels, Wishart’s book is the best “quick read” and I sincerely hope it starts the AGW debate that we in NZ have never had. The whole thing is a frightening example of how a Joe Goebbels job can be put across in Free countries; all the more successfully precisely because the people are free. Stupid, yes, ignorant, yes, badly educated, yes, but free.
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May 1, 2009 2:09pm
gladstone

You’re quite right, Inventory2 – I am he! Following my expulsion from Kiwiblog, I was unable to reset my greenfly account with WordPress – all it would give me was this old ‘Gladstone’ account that I used a couple of years ago, (before the birth of greenfly) so I’m reforged. It’s no secret – nobody had asked til now.
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May 1, 2009 2:10pm
gladstone

p.s. I’m also ‘Patrick Starr’ and ‘Murray’ 🙂
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May 1, 2009 2:11pm
Ryan Sproull

Oh, come on, Ryan Sproull, I thought you were one of the world’s great sceptics. Do you honestly mean to admit that you have been sucked in that totally by the AGW scam?

Associating AGW “deniers” with David Irving, is a tactic more in kind with the Nazis than with the anti-Nazis.

No arm-flapping, I said.

Personally, I wouldn’t debate David Irving on television, because I wouldn’t want to give such madness the validation.

It is entirely possible that McKibben feels the same way about people like Wishart that I feel about David Irving.

Don’t you think?
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May 1, 2009 2:25pm
Komata

As we have many Dutch in our country, (and probably blogging here as well), the following from this morning’s (London) Times might be of interest. The NZ MSM seem to have missed it so far . . .

May I offer my condolances to anyone here who might be affected.

Times

31 April 2009

‘The Dutch Royal Family looked on in horror yesterday as a car ploughed into a crowd of wellwishers, killing five and injuring twelve.

The car smashed through two police barriers in an apparent attempt to ram the open-top bus carrying the royal party, which included Queen Beatrix, 71.

Dutch media reported that the driver, a 38-year-old man, had been fired from his job and faced eviction from his home.

He was slumped at the wheel when he was arrested. Police said that the man, who was in a critical condition, had no history of mental illness and had acted alone. No explosives were found in the vehicle.

The Royal Family had been visiting Apeldoorn, 60 miles (96 km) east of Amsterdam, as part of the festivities for the annual Queen’s Day holiday.

In a rare television address Queen Beatrix offered her condolences. “We are speechless that something so terrible could have happened,” she said, looking shaken. “My family and I think everybody in the country sympathises with the victims, their families and friends. What began as a great day has ended in a terrible tragedy.”

On Queen’s Day, which commemorates the birth of Queen Beatrix’s mother, millions of people take the day off, dress in orange wigs and hats and hold street parties. Last night the parties were cancelled and flags were at half-mast.

Ludo Goossens, a justice official, said: “At the moment of first contact with police on the ground, the man indicated that his action was aimed against the Royal Family.”

Jan Peter Balkenende, the Prime Minister, said: “I think that it has become clear that this happened with premeditation.”

Officials said that the driver had a map of the Queen’s parade route. He apparently tried to collide with the bus carrying the Royal Family. People were thrown in the air as his car ripped through the crowds before hitting a monument and coming to a halt.

Dutch television showed Crown Prince Willem-Alexander and his wife, Princess Maxima, watching in astonishment. No one in the royal entourage was hurt.

Peter von de Vorst, a witness, said that the incident was like watching a Hollywood film. “It was a really nice day. Then you hear a bang. Everyone looks up and you see people indeed flying through the air,” he said. “This must be a joke or a strange prank. Then suddenly panic, and you realise that something really terrible has happened.”
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May 1, 2009 2:26pm
Chuck Bird

The chances of AGW being a treat to mankind are infinitesimal..

Check out the following video about Muslim demographics particularly in Europe and you will see what the real threat to the world is.

Unfortunately nearly everyone is too PC to talk about it.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=245

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCWB3RwbO4
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May 1, 2009 2:27pm
Komata

Date correction to the (London) Times article I have just posted: it is Today (1 May 2009)!!
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May 1, 2009 2:29pm
racer

OMG the A-rabs are coming??!!!!!!12wesdfc
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May 1, 2009 2:32pm
stephen

The NZ MSM seem to have missed it so far . . .

It’s been on Stuff since early this morning.
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May 1, 2009 2:39pm
village idiot

chuck bird said “The chances of AGW being a treat to mankind are infinitesimal..”
That’s right chuck, it’ll be no treat!
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May 1, 2009 3:07pm
dad4justice

“no treat” foams the village idiot.
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May 1, 2009 3:17pm
racer

Any one catch page A6 of the dom post today? ACT candidate convicted on child pornography charges, I guess that means their transformation from a liberal party to a conservative one is complete.

Anyway, I’m off for a walk on the beach, I’ll keep an eye out for the a-rabs (or perhaps you prefer the term ‘Sand Negroids’?) while i’m there, any invasion will be reported immediately upon my return, Kiwiblog shall be the first to know!
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May 1, 2009 3:38pm
MyNameIsJack

gladstone (36) Vote: 1 1 Says:

May 1st, 2009 at 2:11 pm
p.s. I’m also ‘Patrick Starr’ and ‘Murray’

Bugga! i had you down as billyborker, me and that other guy, dad4justice, although you could also have been bigbruv and Neville Key for all I know.
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May 1, 2009 3:49pm
Paul Marsden

Great to see some sanity at long last prevailing in the police, who have decided they aren’t going to charge the Tokoroa shop keeper for taking a crack at the piece of pond life who tried to rob him and thretaen his family. A quick decision too, so accolades to the cops this time around.
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May 1, 2009 3:55pm
jcuknz

People are always right when they do what you think is right, irrespective of right and wrong.
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May 1, 2009 4:32pm
Nomestradamus

Philu:

You disgust me.

muzza..!..another gun-nut-dyslexia-joke .. for your repertoire:..

Your “defence” of this dyslexia joke:

it’s muzza-baiting..!

(you just wait..soon he will crawl out of his (well-defended) fox-hole..

..and will give us a heartfelt/overwrought verse or two of..

‘poor poor..dyslexic me..!’

..a muzza-bait’ll usually get that result

..eh..?..

As I recall, Philip Ure, you were very sensitive when anyone brought your son into the debate – particularly those who commented on your fitness to be a parent. By making highly-personalised (and entirely unprovoked) dyslexia jokes like this, you open yourself up to highly-personalised “jokes” too.
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May 1, 2009 4:54pm
village idiot

” “no treat” foams the village idiot” foams dad4justice.

(you have to be an idiot to play ‘escalation’ with dad4justice! )
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May 1, 2009 4:59pm
PhilBest

Ryan Sproull:

“…..It is entirely possible that McKibben feels the same way about people like Wishart that I feel about David Irving…..”

Not a fair comparison at all. AGW is not proven to have killed millions of people 60 years ago. Nor is it a regime and a murderous ideology that actually kills people by direct violence, if at all. It is a theory about a future danger to humanity that is nowhere near meeting standards of normal scientific proof.

It is more akin to the Nazi ideology than the “deniers” are. The Nazis believed that it was “proven” that Jews were sub-human and guilty of ongoing plots that were a threat to the human race. Some of the AGW crowd believes just as fervently, because they badly want to, not because of proof; about Western industrialists and motorists and consumers, and conducts smear and dehumanising campaigns against honest experts who dare to question them. Which tradition does that make them inheritors of?
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May 1, 2009 5:33pm
reid

I’ve been thinking about the similarities between AGW and the recovered memory child abuse issue in the 90’s.

Almost exactly similar, even down the same type of people being swept up in it.

When will they ever learn?

I mean, who really understands the science except a few hundred thousand people who do it for a living?

The rest of us, well, it’s a value judgement, if you’re honest with yourself. How the fuck would anyone who isn’t a scientist know if they were being scammed or not? I know I wouldn’t.

So all we can do is use discernment with the sources and scan the environment for events.

I just don’t understand why the evangelists, when you consider that we’re talking about the largest inter-nation wealth-transfer mechanism in history, can’t get it through their thick skulls that skepticism is necessary.

As PhilBest says above, we haven’t had the debate. He’s right. We haven’t had it here in NZ and hello, it hasn’t happened anywhere else either.

I mean, AGW went from zero to tangible global action in less than two years. That’s amazing and unique for everything short of a war.

So far the evangelists don’t acknowledge the need for caution in such circumstance. When will they ever learn?
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May 1, 2009 6:07pm
Ryan Sproull

Not a fair comparison at all. AGW is not proven to have killed millions of people 60 years ago. Nor is it a regime and a murderous ideology that actually kills people by direct violence, if at all. It is a theory about a future danger to humanity that is nowhere near meeting standards of normal scientific proof.

Doesn’t matter. What matters is how he views people who deny AGW. If McKibben sees Wishart as someone with a completely spurious argument motivated by a less obvious agenda – as I would see Irving – then his refusal to take part in a televised debate is more likely to be a matter of not giving Wishart validation than any sort of cowardice or fear of being shown up by Wishart.

Do you not agree? And if not, please address which part of the pretty simple argument you disagree with:

1. That it is possible that McKibben sees Wishart as a fringe nut.
2. That you see David Irving as a fringe nut.
3. That you would conceivably decline a televised debate with Irving to refuse giving him that perceived validity.
4. That McKibben would therefore act similarly with regards to Wishart if he saw him as a fringe nut.
5. That therefore McKibben’s refusal to engage Wishart could well not be fear of Wishart’s mighty facts.

There’s very little scope in addressing this argument to list how many people the Nazis killed. None, in fact, unless you’d prefer a rousing-speech competition.
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May 1, 2009 6:24pm
Ryan Sproull

I mean, AGW went from zero to tangible global action in less than two years. That’s amazing and unique for everything short of a war.

You can’t possibly mean you think no one was talking about global warming before a few years ago. I don’t remember it ever not being an ecological issue. Captain Planet was having episodes about it 20 years ago.
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May 1, 2009 6:29pm
philu

gee nosty..!

why don’t you just post a list of subjects about which jokes shall not be made..eh..?

(typical control-freak rightwinger..eh..?..)

quite astonishing how you ‘supporters of personal freedom’..want to ban/control pretty much everything..

..eh..?

by their cant shall we know them..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 1, 2009 6:50pm
reid

You can’t possibly mean you think no one was talking about global warming before a few years ago. I don’t remember it ever not being an ecological issue. Captain Planet was having episodes about it 20 years ago.

Yes, I was talking about ‘global agenda,’ mate.

Never has something so important, leapt onto the global agenda, in so little time.
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May 1, 2009 7:29pm
Ryan Sproull

Yes, I was talking about ‘global agenda,’ mate.

Never has something so important, leapt onto the global agenda, so fast.

Fair enough. It did seem pretty quick, but probably not to those organisations that have spent decades trying to get people to pay attention to the problem. Though the Kyoto Protocol was 12 years ago – that’s pretty global.
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May 1, 2009 7:33pm
reid

Yeh well maybe two years is a hyperbole, but it’s a phenomena of this decade.

The main point though Ryan is the fact the debate ain’t been had.

Do you disagree?
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May 1, 2009 7:37pm
Ryan Sproull

Yeh well maybe two years is a hyperbole, but it’s a phenomena of this decade.

The main point though Ryan is the fact the debate ain’t been had.

Do you disagree?

Depends – can you set clear criteria for when you’d accept that it has been had?
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May 1, 2009 7:40pm
reid

Depends – can you set clear criteria for when you’d accept that it has been had?

Intelligent, detailed, verifiable, equally exposed by MSM and globally ubiquitous dissemination of both skeptical and evangelist perspectives.

That’d be a start.

I’ll get back with some more after tea.
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May 1, 2009 7:51pm
Nomestradamus

Philu:

You asked:

why don’t you just post a list of subjects about which jokes shall not be made..eh..?

Well, let’s see, this comment of yours could go on the list:

philu (4143)
August 4th, 2008 at 9:38 am

listen arse-wipe..

could you please crawl back into your cess-pit..

..and just leave my/(anyones’) family..

..out of this..?

..maybe a small mark of some sort of ‘civilisation’..?

..a concept alien to a slimeball like you..i know..

..but..y’know..!

So, according to you, personal attacks on family are out (and for the record, I think Chuck Bird went too far on that thread).

Taking your ‘civilisation’ concept a step further, I’d say personal attacks focusing on someone’s disability should also be out. Russell Brown has an autistic child but, to my knowledge, no one’s ever descended into gutter humour about it. They’re pretty supportive, actually. Mocking someone with dyslexia solely to get a rise out of him (as you have) is pretty low.

As for right-wing control freaks wanting to ban everything, no, that’d be the Greens!
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May 1, 2009 9:38pm
Angus

(typical control-freak rightwinger..eh..?..)

Maybe we should just let every deranged, self-indulgent, drug atrophied parasite rob community pharmacies at will ?
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May 1, 2009 9:47pm
Southern Raider

You must view this. Shows why the UN is a complete joke. Note the comments at the end of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU&feature=player_embedded
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May 1, 2009 9:51pm
Patrick Starr

“p.s. I’m also ‘Patrick Starr’ and ‘Murray’ ”

in your wildest dreams greenfly
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May 2, 2009 9:44am
PhilBest

Ryan Sproull:

“And if not, please address which part of the pretty simple argument you disagree with:

1. That it is possible that McKibben sees Wishart as a fringe nut.
2. That you see David Irving as a fringe nut.
3. That you would conceivably decline a televised debate with Irving to refuse giving him that perceived validity.
4. That McKibben would therefore act similarly with regards to Wishart if he saw him as a fringe nut.
5. That therefore McKibben’s refusal to engage Wishart could well not be fear of Wishart’s mighty facts……”

Reid repeats the very good point I made earlier, that this debate has simply never been had. It is “over”, in Al Gore’s words, before it has even started.

But yes, I will be glad to go further in response to your questions.

I do not believe that any of these people, Al Gore, McKibben, Hansen, Bolin, Strong, etc, who are close to the centre of the AGW scam, truly believe that their opponents are fringe nuts. I believe that they know their opponents have truth on their side, and that is why they have disallowed debate at any time. I believe that they know that what they are putting across is a scam and a power grab, and they know that the tactics they are using are akin to those of totalitarian power grabbers of the past.

I do believe that a certain proportion of credentialed people are honest dupes. But most credentialed people who are also honest people, are sceptics on this.

It is like “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. The people who best knew them to be untrue, are the people who wrote them in the first place. But having sown the seeds in the minds of people who badly, badly wanted them to be true, their work, based as it was on the same motives as the people who wanted to believe them, was done. You show me a credentialed scientist who pushes “catastrophic anthropogenic global warming”, and I will show you someone who despises global capitalism and consumerism. It is the same as showing me someone who believes the “protocols” and me showing you someone who hates Jews.
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May 2, 2009 12:40pm
PhilBest

And it is the same as showing me a credentialed scientist who supports evolutionary theory. I will show you someone who badly, badly, wants to believe there is no creator God.
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May 2, 2009 12:42pm
stephen

You show me a credentialed scientist who pushes “catastrophic anthropogenic global warming”, and I will show you someone who despises global capitalism and consumerism.

Lovelock? Your use of the word “catastrophic” weeds out many AGW scientists too, I’d imagine.
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May 2, 2009 2:03pm
AG

PB:

“And it is the same as showing me a credentialed scientist who supports evolutionary theory. I will show you someone who badly, badly, wants to believe there is no creator God.”

At which point, PB takes himself beyond the possibility of rational communication. All he’s left with are allegations about the psychological states of those whom he is “conversing”, with no possible inter-personal means of resolving disputes between them. So, to use his own language, PB clearly is so in want of a father figure that he did not progress beyond the childhood state of sticking his fingers in his ears and saying “ISNOTISNOTISNOTISNOT” very loudly whenever confronted with people saying things to him he didn’t like hearing.
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May 2, 2009 2:25pm
PhilBest

stephen, the word “catastrophic” is exactly the point. Nothing else justifies the massive, life-altering impositions that are planned by the U.N.’s cronies. You are quite right that the word “catastrophic” rules out most of the AGW theory scientists – many such people are speaking out against the severity of the planned coping measures that are actually the whole point of the whole scam having been set in motion by Al Gore and his cronies. That man is a very, very dangerous man; all the more so because of his great popularity with millions of ignorant and deceived young people.

And AG; I get great enjoyment from occaisionally watching and reading debates between atheist evolutionists and God-believing scientists. Do you? Is it me or you that does “not progress beyond the childhood state of sticking his fingers in his ears and saying “ISNOTISNOTISNOTISNOT” very loudly whenever confronted with people saying things to him he didn’t like hearing.”….?
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May 2, 2009 3:27pm
PhilBest

“……At which point, PB takes himself beyond the possibility of rational communication……”

Classic, classic smear tactics that says it all about the kinship between all totalitarian systems, and the anti-Christian, evolutionist establishment of today.
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May 2, 2009 3:29pm
AG

PB;

(1) You cannot, I say cannot, follow up the claim “show[] me a credentialed scientist who supports evolutionary theory. I will show you someone who badly, badly, wants to believe there is no creator God” with the claim “I get great enjoyment from occaisionally watching and reading debates between atheist evolutionists and God-believing scientists.” You’ve simply foreclosed the possibility of any meaningful “debate” by discounting in advance the arguments of those explaining evolution as being purely psychologically derived – which is why I say you are like a child going “ISNOTISNOTISNOT”. Now, before you accuse me of doing the same thing – rabbits in the permian. Show me that, or its equivalent, and then we have grounds for a debate about whether or not evolution is the best scientific theory to explain the ongoing development of life. Otherwise we have no grounds for a “debate” on evolution in any interesting sense (I acknowledge I’m not particularly interested in how religious believers choose to doublethink around observable facts within their own churches or mosques … it just doesn’t have anything to do with science or truth).

(2) I use the word “rational” in the sense of permitting inter-subjective communication between persons of differing viewpoints. You’re the one who wants to reduce everything to quasi-psychological speculation about a speaker’s motives. I say it doesn’t matter why a person is proposing a position (such as “evolution is the best fit theory for observable data”) … what matters is whether their claim is true or not. Now, if you have a theory of truth that (a) depends entirely on the psychological motivations of the speaker, and (b) allows different speakers to evaluate a claim in a way that permits a resolution based on the truth of that claim, then lets have it. But I’ll bet you don’t. Which is why you aren’t speaking rationally.
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May 2, 2009 3:45pm
PhilBest

Bulletin from Ian Wishart:

“……We’ve been absolutely overwhelmed with demand for the new book Air Con which launched this week, and it has been all hands to the pumps in the book publishing unit.

More than half of the initial print run has disappeared in five days……”

GO, “Air Con”…….
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May 2, 2009 3:50pm
PhilBest

“Rabbits in the permian”

I am fine with there not having been any.

You show me the fossil record of what rabbits evolved from and all the missing links in between.
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May 2, 2009 3:53pm
Poliwatch

This should be an Interesting read

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=99646&fm=psp,nwl
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May 3, 2009 7:55am
Poliwatch

From the NZ Herald today

“Outrage over brothel at National MP’s house

A brothel that horrified neighbours in a leafy Mt Eden street was operating from a house co-owned by a National MP.

Kanwal Bakshi, a first-term list MP who stood in Manukau East, said he gave notice to the tenants to move out last month after angry neighbours complained. His property manager investigated and issued a warning notice to tenants ……..

But Auckland Mayor John Banks, whose office received complaints from neighbours and from Labour’s Phil Goff, said such brothels had become a “growth industry” that was expensive to monitor and police.”

Obviously Phil Goff has got nothing better to do with his time.
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May 3, 2009 8:08am
Poliwatch

PhilBest

And now a book by Gareth Morgan “Poles Apart” but coming down on the other side of the debate it seems. Should be another good book to read on the subject.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=99646&fm=psp,nwl
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May 3, 2009 8:12am
stephen

I had forgotten about Morgan. I don’t think the fact that he had a hand in writing it necessarily means that it will be accurate…

Morgan said the book was designed to get past emotion and misinformation, such as views expressed by Hide. Hide last year told Parliament climate change data and hypothesis “do not hold together”. He called emission trading schemes “a worldwide scam and swindle”. Morgan said: “When I get a non-scientist belching emotion like that, I just think that’s gutter of politics. I was trying to clear the room of the Rodneys of this world, and whoever his equivalent is on the other [environmental alarmist] side.”

Would be interesting to know who he reckons the latter are – surely he has some idea.
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May 3, 2009 12:54pm
philu

hide pisses whatever shreds/shards of credibility he has/had away by his cartoonish/clownish climate-change denial..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 3, 2009 1:09pm
philu

um..!..nosty..have you never read the slime-words of the muzza..?

since d4j retired into occaisonal burps/farts..muzza and redbaiter have been the biggest..personal level or not..throwers of crap..

so..if he can hand it out…he can also take it..

..and i think i am also reacting to his many repeats of ‘poor poor dyslexic me’..if anyone dare take the piss out of his strangled language..

..this usually after he has abused/accused all and sundry of everything dating back to that adam/eve/apple/snake thing..

..the boy has cried wolf too often..

were it any other dyslexic..?..probably not..

..but muzza is a ‘special case’..in more ways than just that..

eh..?

(and i still think it’s pretty funny he lies in bed at night..wonderig if there s a dog..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 3, 2009 1:18pm
dad4justice

“since d4j retired into occaisonal burps/farts..”

I take offence. Whoever said Harvest time was good for the brain was a fuckwit – eh phool. Goodbye ducks need blasting.
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May 3, 2009 1:26pm

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