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July 10, 2009 6:39am by David Farrar

General Debate 10 July 2009

Almost home – in Auckland Koru Club!

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General Debate

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Comments (73)

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Glutaemus Maximus

The Yanquis are missing you already!!

Meanwhile Gordon Brown saves the World at G8 plus 12. Er that would be G20?

The climate is changing FFS. Quick tax everyone!
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July 10, 2009 7:02am
Cerium

Did you see this too GM?

“Arctic sea ice thinned dramatically between the winters of 2004 and 2008, with thin seasonal ice replacing thick older ice as the dominant type for the first time on record. The new results, based on data from a NASA Earth-orbiting spacecraft, provide further evidence for the rapid, ongoing transformation of the Arctic’s ice cover.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090708103212.htm
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July 10, 2009 7:06am
Brian Smaller

Cerium – in the 1950s two US submarines surfaced at the North Pole – there was no ice there – it was open ocean.. Santa obviously had his water wings.
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July 10, 2009 7:16am
Cerium

It’s not uncommon to have breaks in the ice in the summer, submarines have surfaced there in various years.
http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

The research is measuring the total volume of ice. It is not replenishing as much in the winters.
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July 10, 2009 7:27am
Glutaemus Maximus

So how does taxing people help?

It would be much more credible to offer tax breaks and subsidies. Then I might become a believer.

What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?
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July 10, 2009 7:36am
jcuknz

I hope you have all bought your water-wings
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July 10, 2009 7:37am
jims_whare

going by the frost outside I think the ice is replenishing nicely down here in oamaru…..be nice if a bit of the climate change crap was actually true…..might warm this winter up a bit…..lucky my CO2 producing slow burning fire place is working well eh?
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July 10, 2009 7:46am
siobhan

Physics 101 from Dr Cliff Ollier

“Firstly, shelf ice is floating, because it is less dense than seawater. When floating ice melts, there is no change in sea level. This is a bit of elementary physics known as Archimedes’ Principle. Secondly, the breakup of ice shelves is normal and inevitable. Ice caps grow by precipitation in the uplands, flow at depth, and at the ice front the ice either melts or breaks off as icebergs. The ice never simply keeps flowing to the equator. Icebergs are produced in both times of climate warming and times of cooling, so they tell us nothing of climate change.”
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July 10, 2009 7:54am
Murray

Clearly its submarines that are causing gorebul warming.

Ban them!
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July 10, 2009 8:10am
big bruv

So your back in NZ now DPF, bloody depressing aye.
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July 10, 2009 8:24am
Andrew W

What’s your point Siobhan? While that may be news to you it’s not news to anyone else.
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July 10, 2009 8:24am
Banana Llama

Anyone see the full moon last night? gave me a bit of a chuckle.
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July 10, 2009 8:32am
siobhan

Get out of the wrong side of bed AndyCap?
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July 10, 2009 8:33am
Glutaemus Maximus

So will Santa be able to use any ice for take off? Or will he revert to Floats like so many Millenia before?

Funny how the Journos go to the Artic in Summer to declare how bad things are, and then to the Antartic 6 months later.

Never do the BBC go to either Pole in the Winter. Polar extremes frozen rock solid again, and very dark. Not much of a story I guess?
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July 10, 2009 8:37am
thedavincimode

Glutaemus Maximus says:

“What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?”

Fear not GM; they are safe and sound as a consequence of new hole in the icecap fencing regulations introduced by the North Pole City Council, requiring that:

1. The hole is fenced off by a solid non-melting wall with a minimum height of 1.2m, and not having any footholds, nor any elevated terrain or structures within a distance of 50m.

2. The access gate handle must be placed at a height of 35m above the ground.

3. No permanent or temporary seating is permitted within the icecap hole enclosure area in order to reduce the prospect that Santa might doze off while the little elves are splashing about.

4. No diving or jumping into the polar icecap hole is permitted.

5. All igloo windows within a 5 kilometre radius of the icecap hole enclosure must be restricted to an opening distance of 50mm and all igloo doors must be bolted shut permanently.

6. No swimming when submarines are present.

7. No swimming competitions (hardly relevant to a pool code, but I think its a Liarbore lead Council up there)

8.No feeding of the polar bears
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July 10, 2009 8:38am
Cerium

Interesting to see the negatives, I just posted reports without pushing a view, one report tended to support climate change, the other was against. Do people not like to see something they think is against their view?

GM, I am dubious about the benefits of the approach being taken.

I know climate change is happening, it always has. I know humans affect it. The main questions are:
– is the human effect significant enough to need to do something about it
– if so, is there anything significant that can be done about it

We should be working a lot more towards conserving resources and polluting less regardless.
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July 10, 2009 8:39am
OTGO

Changing the subject (GW is boring me speechless) I heard Kate Wilkinson being interviewed on Radio Live this morning about the mass medication of folic acid in bread. What is it about politicians? It has been documented that she is against the compulsory addition of folic acid and yet when asked if it was going to happen she couldn’t give a yes or no answer. Instead she burbled on about some Australian protocol that we had signed up to. Are we no longer a sovereign nation? 85% of us don’t want it so just don’t do it!
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July 10, 2009 8:39am
NOt1tocommentoften

Big Bruv – if it depresses you you can leave. Freedom of movement is a great human right. Why not enjoy it. Honestly though, it is depresses you so much, why not leave?
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July 10, 2009 8:41am
thedavincimode

Glutaemus Maximus says:

“What do you think has happened to the Toy making Elfs?”

Fear not GM; they are safe and sound as a consequence of new hole in the icecap pool and fencing regulations introduced by the North Pole City Council, requiring that:

1. The hole is fenced off by a solid non-melting wall with a minimum height of 1.2m, and not having any footholds, nor any elevated terrain or structures within a distance of 50m.

2. The access gate handle must be placed at a height of 35m above the ground.

3. No permanent or temporary seating is permitted within the icecap hole enclosure area in order to reduce the prospect that Santa might doze off while the little elves are splashing about.

4. No diving or jumping into the polar icecap hole is permitted.

5. All igloo windows within a 5 kilometre radius of the icecap hole enclosure must be restricted to an opening distance of 50mm and all igloo doors must be bolted shut permanently.

6. No swimming when submarines are present.

7. No swimming competitions (hardly relevant to a pool code, but I think its a Liarbore led Council up there).

8. Gay whales have priority use of the facilities (see comment re 7 above).

9. No feeding of the polar bears (see comment re 7 above).

10. No fun permitted (see comment re 7 above).
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July 10, 2009 8:42am
Andrew W

No Siobhan, I’m in a chirpy mood today.

OTGO, What’s Joe publics opinion to do with it unless there’s about to be an election (and even then)? 85% of us didn’t want Bradford’s bill either.
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July 10, 2009 8:49am
Michaels

Why has The Herald gone and screwed with a perfectly good website?????
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July 10, 2009 8:49am
NOt1tocommentoften

Jesus I am livered – I just saw that this Hungrian fella Ambash was only convicted of manslaughter and not murder because of the provocation defence and its supposed application in homosexual panic cases! Absolutely disgusting. Repeal the defence!
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July 10, 2009 8:53am
Cerium

“Jesus I am livered” – too much wine?
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July 10, 2009 8:57am
OTGO

Andrew W 8.49- yes but we have a National led govt now. The social engineers have gone – haven’t they?
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July 10, 2009 9:08am
Andrew W

Yea right.
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July 10, 2009 9:11am
philu

“..Do people not like to see something they think is against their view?..”

you haven’t been coming here for very long..?..

..eh cerium..?

this is the home of more than a few who do seem to be a tad over-one-eyed/blinkered..

..(bless them..!..eh..?)

..you’ll get to know who they are..after a while..

but..diversity..?..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 10, 2009 9:25am
andrei

I wonder if a woman who defended herself against a would be rapist could use the heterosexual panic defense?

Nah; she wouldn’t need to – people only get “livered” over politically protected classes like homos and wimmen.

Oh my; hasn’t political correctness shrunk peoples shrunken peoples capacity for rational thought.
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July 10, 2009 9:31am
Brian Smaller

I watch Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel. In their winter crab season they always have to contend with ice coming down through the Bering Straits and clogging up half of the Berings Sea. I thought the ice never reached that far south in these Latter Times of the world’s climate history.
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July 10, 2009 9:33am
Andrew W

Cerium, since you asked:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/02/people_like_congenial_news/
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July 10, 2009 9:34am
AG

OTGO,

This might answer some of your questions on the folic acid issue: http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/to-folate-or-not-to-folate

On a different point … anyone see this?

“The Government has discussed expanding Kiwibank amid calls for it to beef up the state-owned bank to help push interest rates lower.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2580792/Talks-held-on-growth-of-Kiwibank

Guess that’s another Progressive-Labour innovation that you can tick off as “a success”.
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July 10, 2009 9:37am
Cerium

Good one Andrew. Paint ourselves in ideological corners. But preaching with the converted can get boring. It’s good to stir up some alternatives.
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July 10, 2009 9:38am
Inventory2

Complete change of subject – can anyone remember what happened 42 years ago today?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/07/42-years-on.html
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July 10, 2009 9:58am
Andrew W

It’s an instinct, a product of evolution, for millions of years looking after yourself, your family, and your peers has been more important than being right.
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July 10, 2009 10:00am
kiwipolemicist

Yesterday Brian Smaller mentioned that people had been fined for letting people sit on their roof and watch the Hamilton 400. The “crime” wasn’t getting a free peek at the cars, the crime was sitting on a roof.

If you look at the details it beggars belief; this is Nanny State with whip and jackboots pretending to care about you.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/sitting-on-your-roof-is-illegal/
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July 10, 2009 11:39am
xxx

I saw the people sitting on their roof. The physical laws of mechanics would suggest that ten people weighing around 900kg would likely collapse the light framing used to support the tin of an old house. It was a fuckin dumb thing to do. Complete ignorance.
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July 10, 2009 11:43am
Ryan Sproull

kiwipolemicist,

I agree with you there. Do you have similar views on how the Nanny State interferes with cannabis cultivation and enjoyment?
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July 10, 2009 11:45am
Andrew W

It’s a bit of a drop in the ocean compared to the all the other rules the state feels it needs to impose on us for our own good. On the other hand, if the roof had collapsed it could have been nasty, and taxpayers, as well as those on the roof, would be paying.
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July 10, 2009 11:50am
kiwipolemicist

Ryan:

Do you have similar views on how the Nanny State interferes with cannabis cultivation and enjoyment?

I most certainly do, and they’re all here:
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/the-pointless-death-of-an-undercover-policeman/
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July 10, 2009 12:08pm
kiwipolemicist

Andrew W:

On the other hand, if the roof had collapsed it could have been nasty, and taxpayers, as well as those on the roof, would be paying.

That’s the trouble with living in a Socialist state: someone else does something stupid and you wind up wearing part of the cost.

For another example of this go to
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/slices-of-life-from-auckland-hospital/
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July 10, 2009 12:19pm
kiwipolemicist

On the nanny state theme, let’s not forget that our spineless government is going to go ahead with the forcible medication of bread, while the Food Safety Minister has the cheek to claim that National has a philosophy of “personal choice”!

The New Zealand Organisation for Rare Disorders also has a totalitarian attitude when it comes to folic acid in bread.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/govt-forces-folic-aci-into-bread/
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July 10, 2009 12:25pm
Andrew W

yep
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July 10, 2009 12:31pm
southtop

Interesting how God Complexes develop. I see the G8 are going to hold global temperatures at a maximum of 2degree above industrial age temps. WTF? on so many levels!
Do these dickheads have super human powers (G Brown may have, a very unusual looking specimen)?
Have they not heard of sun activity, activity in oceans etc
Surely this have to be a piss take or poor reporting?
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July 10, 2009 12:34pm
kiwipolemicist

southtop:

They do indeed have a God complex, but they don’t have supernatural powers. They’ll try and control temps with Emissions Taxations Scams, which the IMF has admitted are taxes and a means of taking money from rich countries and giving it to the poor ones.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/the-emissions-trading-scheme-global-socialism/
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July 10, 2009 12:44pm
Brian Smaller

Southtop – Not superheros. Only Obama. He has already stated that he will stop the earth warming (he has succeeded obviously as it is fucking cold today) andturn back the rising seas. Who needs the other G8 when the world has The One?
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July 10, 2009 12:47pm
Ryan Sproull

Kiwipolemicist,

Cool. I am a big fan of consistency. Thanks for the link.
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July 10, 2009 1:01pm
kiwipolemicist

Ryan:

You’re welcome. My position as a classical liberalist is simple and consistent, i.e. anything that doesn’t violate the non-aggression axiom is fine with me. Although I have a personal moral code that precludes many things that do not violate the non-aggression axiom, I will not attempt to stop other people doing them.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/non-aggression-axiom/

I have to depart from Blogland now.
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July 10, 2009 1:12pm
southtop

But Brian the climate IS changing. It was bloody cold here in the Top of the South this morning but now it is showing 15degrees in my yard. Maybe this is Nick Smith’s fault?
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July 10, 2009 1:31pm
Brian Smaller

Southtop – you could be onto something there.
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July 10, 2009 1:51pm
Owen McShane

I went to America as the NZ delegate to the New York Mirror Youth Forum and while staying with friends in Palo Alto watched the great US hope launch their sputnik blow up on the launch pad.
Also the Edsel was launched – just about as big a disaster. I think earlier that year the Russians had launched their Sputnik.
I didn’t look so this might all be hopelessly self centred.
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July 10, 2009 2:44pm
Owen McShane

Oh, I also saw the first run of video tape machines being assembled in Palo Alto at the Ampex factory where my friends father was an electronic engineer. They were about the size of a small kitchen.
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July 10, 2009 2:45pm
Owen McShane

BLenheimer’s disease.
I did the maths in my head and got it wrong.
I was writing about 1957.

I certainly remember the change to decimals. And as it happens, during that 1957 trip a family friend came in to the house in Palo Alto and showed me this new small calculator they had for the shop. I peered at it and kept asking “But does it add up money?” and they looked at me as though I was half witted – after some strange conversations the penny finally dropped. With Decimal currency any calculator would add up money!
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July 10, 2009 2:50pm
Offshore_Kiwi

AG

““The Government has discussed expanding Kiwibank amid calls for it to beef up the state-owned bank to help push interest rates lower.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2580792/Talks-held-on-growth-of-Kiwibank

Guess that’s another Progressive-Labour innovation that you can tick off as “a success”.”

Since nobody else has taken the bait, I will. First, WTF? Kiwibank hasn’t done anything to help push interest rates lower. The BEABs (Big, Evil Aussie Banks) have (if not a reason, then at least) an excuse for not pushing their interest rates down; it is some bullshit about the cost of funds in offshore markets…accurate bullshit, if you believe the recent article on interest.co.nz. Kiwibank has no such pressure; it is government-funded, yet since day 1 it has kept its rates at a fixed and cozy 0.5% below the BEABs’. Push interest rates down? My arse. Forget the stories about the BEABs price-gouging; Kiwibank is teaching them all a lesson.

“Progressive=Labour innovation” … another innovation into shafting the NZ taxpayer!
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July 10, 2009 2:52pm
Portia

Kiwipolemicist and Ryan – and it seems that cannabis cultivation and enjoyment could save California from financial ruin…

Smoke dope to save California, dude

… failing that, it could at least help to dull the pain 🙂
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July 10, 2009 3:03pm
bringbackthebiff

If anyone on this blog has acquaintances who live in Oz and travel around victoria at all, I encourage them to boycott BP at the Flying horse on the East side of Warrnambool. I want these highway robbers out of business
Die Flying Horse BP Die
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July 10, 2009 3:09pm
Kris K

Inventory2 [9:58 am],
“Complete change of subject – can anyone remember what happened 42 years ago today?”

Yep, I was 14 days short of my 5th birthday and still remember decimal currency coming in.
A lot happened around that time – the late sixties, that left lasting impressions on my young mind.
As well as decimal currency in 1967, the Wahine storm 1968 [still remember seeing corrugated iron flying about 500m up in the sky and asking my mother why parents would send kids to school in that weather with all the debri flying around], and the moon landing in 1969.

Other interesting yardsticks [metre-sticks doesn’t have the same ring] I remember:
3rd form, 1976 still used log tables at school. [just like my father had]
4th form, 1977 slide rules came in.
5th form, 1978 basic scientific calculators came in; allowed to use them in School Cert.
6th form, 1979 advent of the programmable calculator, but still sent punch cards in for maths/computing.
7th form, allowed programmable calculators into exams. So new back then that the exam observers didn’t know how to check the memories to prevent cheating [not that I did, of course!].

Do the ‘younger generation’ even remember a time without PCs, the web, cell phones, etc? [what’s a log table?]
Gee, I feel old now. Think I’ll go have a nap.
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July 10, 2009 3:26pm
AG

Offshore Kiwi,
“Forget the stories about the BEABs price-gouging; Kiwibank is teaching them all a lesson.
“Progressive=Labour innovation” … another innovation into shafting the NZ taxpayer!”

Not sure I understand your position here. Do you want Kiwibank to operate as a commercial entity that generates profits (by loaning at a rate that is more attractive to borrowers than the BEABs, yet is above its (comparatively cheaper) cost of funds), pays a dividend to the government, and thus makes more money available for things like health and education (i.e. recycles that money within NZ, rather than ? Or do you want Kiwibank to operate as a purely social/charitable enterprise that loans money at near-cost, charges lower interest rates, offers the government no return on the capital it has invested, thus effectively creating a transfer of wealth from every taxpayer to the few who borrow money from Kiwibank? Or do you want no Kiwibank, just the BEABs charging their higher rates of interest, sending their profits to Australia, thus increasing our already parlous balance of payments situation?

My point about Kiwibank being “a success” is that (1) you don’t hear much anymore from those doomsayers (i.e. Rodney Hide) who predicted Kiwibank would fail; (2) it appears National has moved from wanting to privatise to embracing the institution; and (3) a bunch of Aussie economists want to copy us … and we all know how important it is for NZ to have international validation! (see http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10583310 )
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July 10, 2009 3:38pm
AG

D’oh … posted too quick, and no edit!

Meant to write (i.e. recycles that money within NZ, rather than exports it to Australia?)
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July 10, 2009 3:40pm
backster

It would be interesting to know the percentage of mortgage defaults and provisions for bad loans made by Kiwibank vis a vis the Aussie ones before getting too enthusiastic about its’ expansion.
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July 10, 2009 3:54pm
Rex Widerstrom

Andrew W notes:

On the other hand, if the roof had collapsed it could have been nasty, and taxpayers, as well as those on the roof, would be paying.

I agree. I’m so glad Labour put an end to all this pointless risk-taking behaviour, like climbing a bloody mountain just because it’s there (as opposed to, say, needing to get to the other side or some rational reason). I mean such bloody-minded stupidity in the pursuit of “fun” could lead to the loss of innocent lives, such as that of your mountain guide for instance.

Oh wait… is it just that risk-taking behaviour isn’t okay for the poor dumb folks of Hamilton, but still okay for the moneyed power elite? Sorry, I’ll shut up then.
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July 10, 2009 4:04pm
AG

backster.

Agreed. Any evidence these figures are significantly higher for Kiwibank vis a vis the Aussie ones?
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July 10, 2009 4:13pm
AG

Rex,

Isn’t there also an irony in the Hamilton Council cracking down on the “unsafe” spectators of an event involving high performance motorcars flying around a circuit deliberately designed so that any lapse in concentration/judgment results in a high-speed crash? An event the Council pours quite considerable sums of ratepayer money into?
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July 10, 2009 4:15pm
joeAverage

Its sad that white hunters who go out hunting are now been targeted by the mongrel mob and other tosser fat belly maoris in the bush ( i would shoot the fat pricks, but maori who are only 10% of NZ who are the FIRST NATION are endangered), john boy key the wimp (OUR PM ????????) who leads us groveled to the fat belly in charge maori party for their support and the crims took this grovelling as a green light to do what maoris do ,be crims if you can get away with it ,GOOD ONE NATIONAL and johnboy key who luvs every one except the white middle class working man who is his main voting base , 2.5 years to go john boy and you could be gone
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July 10, 2009 4:43pm
LUCY

Wall Street Journal 10 July2009

“King Canute at the G-8
World leaders tell the Earth’s temperature not to rise”

“When King Canute of lore wanted to teach his citizens a lesson, he set his throne by the seashore and commanded the tides to roll out. Canute’s spirit was back in business this week at the G-8 summit in Italy, where the assembled leaders declared that the world’s temperature shall not rise: “We recognize the scientific view that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels ought not to exceed 2 degrees [Celsius],” or 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, said the summit declaration.

So let it be written, so let it be done.”

Todays WSJ. It would seem that I am not the only one who thinks that man controlling the climate is as idiotic as King Canute controlling the tides!!!!!!!!!!!
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July 10, 2009 4:57pm
EverlastingFire

What’s up with Key planning to piss away tax payer money to all these pacific countries? We’re getting poorer and he’s increasing handouts to them by the millions every year.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-government/news/article.cfm?c_id=144&objectid=10582007&ref=rss

Looks like we’re even paying for a little hip-hop tour too! A little something Helen was famous for.

I think we’ve heard the last of any tax cuts…
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July 10, 2009 5:59pm
reid

Firstly, shelf ice is floating, because it is less dense than seawater. When floating ice melts, there is no change in sea level. This is a bit of elementary physics known as Archimedes’ Principle. Secondly, the breakup of ice shelves is normal and inevitable. Ice caps grow by precipitation in the uplands, flow at depth, and at the ice front the ice either melts or breaks off as icebergs. The ice never simply keeps flowing to the equator. Icebergs are produced in both times of climate warming and times of cooling, so they tell us nothing of climate change.

Sorry to raise AGW again, but thought some might be interested in this little fact, since the break-up of the floating ice shelves in Antartica is often shrugged off using the argument that they’re also floating.

That’s true.

But unfortunately, those ice shelves act like flying buttresses, holding in all the ice on the land in Antartica. So if those big shelves go, then nothing happens, sea-level-wise. But if that land ice then slides into the sea, we’re all living in coastal properties.

As readers know, I’m an AGW skeptic, but facts like that give me pause for thought.
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July 10, 2009 6:00pm
thedavincimode

… so then joewellbelowAverage …

… and you still have a vote ..??!!
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July 10, 2009 7:20pm
jcuknz

>>>kiwipolemicist (339) Vote: 7 0 Says:

July 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Yesterday Brian Smaller mentioned that people had been fined for letting people sit on their roof and watch the Hamilton 400. The “crime” wasn’t getting a free peek at the cars, the crime was sitting on a roof.

If you look at the details it beggars belief; this is Nanny State with whip and jackboots pretending to care about you.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/sitting-on-your-roof-is-illegal/<<<

They are not bothered about you but in this crazy PC society they might receive a “please explain” note if the roof collapsed. It is a result of the “Why doesn’t somebody do something about it” syndrome .. God help us all.
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July 10, 2009 8:25pm
jcuknz

I have yet to understand why some men who claim to be hetrosexual think their virginity is so important that it justifies killing somebody, and why our society permits it to be a defence against a murder charge. Are they latent homosexuals that they get so hung up? Why cannot they simply say “NO” unless of course it is a definite rape situation. I think they are a collection of wankers frankly.
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July 10, 2009 8:36pm
Dusky

Jcuknz, wankers is putting it mildly, when killing somebody is concerned.
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July 10, 2009 8:38pm
Buggerlugs

Labour MP and former lawyer Charles Chauvel is spearheading a bid to remove provocation as a defence in criminal cases.
The defence is often used in court by defendants to justify violent attacks if provoked by a victim.

OK, so Clayton 216 Stab Wounds Weatherston is a scumbag. This makes Charlie an opportunistic scumbag.
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July 10, 2009 11:52pm
Whafe

The moral fiber of society, honesty of mankind etc etc is in the toilet, it gets worse by the week or month.

When will humans as a whole say enough is enough??? I know i should not hold my breath, but it is ever going to happen. Is the PC-itis going to drown us all in the Politically correct crap?
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July 11, 2009 12:13am
Pat

The honeymoon is over! Oh, wait…

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2009/4398/

In early July support for John Key’s Coalition Government is 58.5% (up 1%) comprising National Party 54% (up 2%), Maori Party 3% (up 0.5%), ACT NZ 1% (down 1.5%), and United Future 0.5% (unchanged) according to the Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll conducted June 22 — July 5, 2009.

Support for Opposition parties is 41.5% (down 1%); Labour Party 31.5% (down 1.5%), Greens 8% (up 0.5%), NZ First 1% (unchanged), Progressive Party 0.5% (unchanged) and Others 0.5% (unchanged.
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July 11, 2009 8:24am
philu

so..act is on 1%…margin of error is over 1%

theoretically…act could be in the minus..

..eh..?

whoar..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 11, 2009 9:03am

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