General Debate 12 August 2009

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Glutaemus Maximus

Should Ex MP’s have their travel perks removed? Or is it actually a binding contract linked to previous wage suppression?

My guess is that whilst very desirable, and cost effective. Current MP’s will never agree to it.

They are dyed in the wood entitlists.
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August 12, 2009 8:06am
big bruv

Just a word of warning, anybody who need to update their car/bike/truck registration should get in now, the bastards are going to raise the price as from the first of September.

Road user charges will also rise on the same day.
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August 12, 2009 8:18am
Glutaemus Maximus

Hilary Clinton loses her composure after being asked a question by a Congolese student.

And Later………….

Hillary: “Nuke Congo!”
Aide: “Of course, madam. Which Congo would you wish to nuke? Brazzaville or Kinshasa or both?”
Hillary: “You mean there are two?! like Irak and Iran?”
Aide: “There are indeed. There are two Koreas too. As you know, your husb….”
Hillary: “Nuke them all!”

And just why did Hillary Clinton say.

“If there was a nuclear war, only the cockroaches would survive, oh and Helen Clark.”
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August 12, 2009 8:20am
Glutaemus Maximus

BB, are they going to raise rail fares as well?
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August 12, 2009 8:21am
Herman Poole

Philu,

Are you Bryan Spondre?
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August 12, 2009 8:22am
Cerium

GM: Should Ex MP’s have their travel perks removed? Or is it actually a binding contract linked to previous wage suppression?

With a bit of luck it was a lifetime entitlement contracted in the same way lifetime drivers and gun licenses were contracted.
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August 12, 2009 8:29am
Glutaemus Maximus

All contracts can be over-ridden by Statute.

Just place it under Anti-Terrorism laws. Works in the UK. And as Iceland found out.
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August 12, 2009 8:31am
Inventory2

@ Herman – doubt it! Bryan uses punctuation!
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August 12, 2009 8:35am
Inventory2

Very interesting piece from John Whitehead in this morning’s Herald, expanding on the need for the public sector to embrace change. It’s interesting too that Whitehead used to be the head of the Labour Party research unit, but he seems to have shrugged off his past.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/08/whitehead-explains.html
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August 12, 2009 8:38am
petal

I am rarely calling for new laws – we have enough already – but I really would like to see a Private Members Bill that compells any registered charity to disclose the percentage-per-donated-dollar that actually reaches the intended recipients as part of any and all public communications made. Just a circle with a “52%” in it would do, and we’d quickly learn to check for it. The “business” of charities is quite distasteful in some cases.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/2742223/Telethon-charitys-costs-queried
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August 12, 2009 8:50am
Inventory2

Agree wholeheartedly petal – the “charity industry” is the reason why the phone in our household does not get answered between 5.30 and 7.30pm.
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August 12, 2009 8:52am
Herman Poole

Petal,

Good idea, I would include the IRD in that to, although I suspect the figure wouldn’t be too impressive. I big 25% might get a few people asking where their tax cuts are.
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August 12, 2009 9:00am
big bruv

Glutae

I did see that piece about Hillary Clinton, while I have no time at all for Obama I am so glad that Hillary is not the leader of the free world when she has a temper like that.

Can you imagine it, a middle aged menopausal old bat having the ability to blow up the world?
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August 12, 2009 9:00am
Glutaemus Maximus

Going on about charities.

I was a non exec director of a local radio station. Which in turn was part of a big PLC group.

They had a Charity Arm, and I was stunned that the PLC considered the costs to be a legitimate revenue stream.

The classic line was that the Jocks would plug away about how all the charities to be supported were local, child orientated, and

There was no danger of money going overseas. Well it did if any shareholders were based overseas by way of dividend.

The Chairman was a well known local sports celebrity and one of the nicest guys that I have ever met.

Typically I upset things by demanding management accounts in the first meeting, rather than just being a lunch and stamp member.

Needless to say I wasn’t super impressed with the PLC antics. In this case 33% went to charities, 33% straight to the PLC as ‘rights’?

and 33% to cover the direct running costs of the activities. Given the Station was running on a 50% Pretax Profit Margin, a good chunk of the Station’s money for Charity Activities was claimed at period ends for PLC reporting.

Not a good look!
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August 12, 2009 9:11am
3-coil

I noticed on last night’s TV news that uber-trougher Chris Carter is travelling on the Labour Party bus tour…without his partner Peter Kaiser!

Are they no longer inseparable – on the “honeymoon that never ends”? Or is the bus a bit too low-rent and Peter is flying ahead (courtesy of the tax-payer), to catch up with his chum Chris each night – to offer him the support he can’t survive more than a few hours without?
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August 12, 2009 9:16am
philu

hello bryan/herman..

(any advice today..?..on how farrar could/should improve this blog..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 12, 2009 9:20am
Chris

GM, If Rodney ‘The Perkbuster’ Hide or the ACT party had any Balls in them they would have drafted a bill the first day they joined this rag-tag government that would get rid of the ex-MPs free travel.

Come on Rodney, I’m waiting! This is the man who has been portrayed in the media and self-confessed perkbuster yet the stupidest perk remains…. I WONDER WHY???

“Trim the fat from government spending” blah blah, more rhetoric please Bill. Get rid of that bullshit perk and I might believe you, otherwise I think you and your party are all shit and quite happy to sit atop on power maintaining status quo.
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August 12, 2009 10:05am
Murray

Ban you for life.
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August 12, 2009 10:13am
Bok

Make it a woman threatening criminal free zone?
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August 12, 2009 10:25am
Jack5

Great piece on Stuff quoting farm leader Don Nicolson on Green hypocrisy:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2742148/Farmers-leader-queries-stars
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August 12, 2009 10:28am
Redbaiter

Great move by the Breast Cancer Foundation to reject a donation from the odious and sleazy self serving creep behind Boobs on Bikes and a large part of the NZ porn industry.
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August 12, 2009 10:36am
tom hunter

Given that I included an old quote of his yesterday I suppose I need to follow my own advice in relation to philu – just ignore him.

That includes the people constantly giving him -ve karma points, as it implies that you’ve read him and supplies more oxygen.

Let’s have a Kiwiblog philu target – 0:0 in ’09.
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August 12, 2009 10:38am
Murray

I consider it a public duty to smack idiots who think they should talk crap in public tom.
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August 12, 2009 10:48am
tom hunter

Murray

Yeah – the soundbite bullshit that is intended to reinforce some piece of leftie propaganda gets a bit much for me too.

But I suggest only going after those who appear to have a coherence about them and to which you can attribute at least some rational underhandedness beyond simple forum disruption.

The likes of racer1, billyborker, and sonic are just blurts intended to disrupt a successful blog they hate and enable them to run the line about it being an unworthy sewer – and philu’s driver is narcissism.

The bottom line is that you’re getting into shouting matches with people who want exactly that, since it saves them having to demonstrate any thinking.
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August 12, 2009 10:59am
Chthoniid

As an interesting development on the Epilepsy front, the local branch I’m associated with has had several direct approaches from funding groups, wanting to make more direct contributions as a result of the publicity.

It would though be good for the Charities Commission to take a closer look at this sector. One of the apparent weaknesses of the system, is that it reports the percentage going from say Group A to Group B. But if Group A is using a professional funder, it doesn’t report the cut taken by the professional funder. This ends up over-reporting the percentage passed on.
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August 12, 2009 11:06am
Bok

Redbaiter it is absolute moralistic bullshit. What was the name of that old woman from the hawkes Bay in the 80’s who tried everthing from bikinis to kissing in films banned? You are no different. here is a charity that gladly accepts money from gambling and booze, yet moralizes over porn? give me a break!
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August 12, 2009 11:10am
nickb

Walking through the city today, the number of school aged kids running round, actiung like little clowns and gangsters is appalling. School holidays are over arent they? Where are the truancy officers????

Anyone that has enough time on their hands to hang around town alday acting like thugs should be in school or in work- but wouldnt surprise me if some were on benefits
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August 12, 2009 11:11am
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter it is absolute moralistic bullshit.”

I happen to be a fan of “moralistic bullshit” Bok, because I can see what has happened to this country since the idea of morality was replaced by passive subservience to the ideas of the Progressives.

..and I’d take the bravery of Particia Bartlett any day over the seedy self promoting bag of slime you regard as a hero.
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August 12, 2009 11:16am
Brian Smaller

Great move by the Breast Cancer Foundation to reject a donation from the odious and sleazy self serving creep behind Boobs on Bikes and a large part of the NZ porn industry.

I know a woman who runs an adult shop and she reckons more than half her customers are women. More like 75% for most stock items. Men buy more dvds 🙂

The BCF rejecting that money smacks of hypocrisy if they also take money from gambling and alcohol industries – both sources of lots of problems for women in New Zealand. Oh well, Crow is donating to stop woman having their clits cut off in Africa instead.
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August 12, 2009 11:21am
Brian Smaller

Red – I like porn, ever since I got a Cheryl Rixon poster when I was 15.
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August 12, 2009 11:22am
Redbaiter

Brain- of course you do, but its not about what you (or I) like.
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August 12, 2009 11:25am
Jeff83

“..and I’d take the bravery of Particia Bartlett any day over the seedy self promoting bag of slime you regard as a hero.”

Ill take both as muppets. SC I have no respect for, he is out for himself in a capitlistic way and exploits certain people to do so (insert pregnant solo mum in a porn with the birth being filmed), so be that. In saying that Patricia Bartlett can get her views out of my life, I do not need moralising by some backwater stuck in the past person.

Overall I much prefer where we are currently in terms of our views of morality than we were 40 years ago. The exception to this is people are allot more me focused, but even then I still think the majority of people try and do good things for their community.

All depends on what you call moral I guess.
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August 12, 2009 11:25am
senzafine

I happen to be a fan of “moralistic bullshit” Bok, because I can see what has happened to this country since the idea of morality was replaced by passive subservience to the ideas of the Progressives.

Normally you are a bit too feral for me Red. But on this I have to agree with you.

It was refreshing toalking to a wee lass the otherday who told me that she idealises the 50’s, and wishes she could stay home, look after her family and man while he went forth and provided. Its a real shame that more women don’t find that more appealing.

I mean, fuck. Its been one of the bases of society for hundreds of years! And people wonder why society is crumbling and splintering?
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August 12, 2009 11:26am
Jeff83

Brian I suspect the Breast cancer society is taking a fuller picture approach and can see that the gain from taking donations from Crow is likely to be outweighed by negative associations from it. Considering they have to represent a very broard spectrim of society I dont think their position can really be critised.

In saying that I have no problem with porn per say, as long as its participants are willing etc, but I think a charity has the right to choose where its donations come from to an extent.
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August 12, 2009 11:29am
Brian Smaller

Brain- of course you do, but its not about what you like.

No, it is about an organisation that has rejected a significant amount of funding because they don’t like a particular vice but who are happy taking donations funded from other, equally bad in some people’s opinion, vices.
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August 12, 2009 11:29am
Redbaiter

“equally bad in some people’s opinion”

Sure, but opinion is opinion. Some people would regard degradation of woman with its associated effects on family and public etiquette as a much greater “vice”. Obviously the BCF do, and good on them.
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August 12, 2009 11:34am
Jeff83

“It was refreshing toalking to a wee lass the otherday who told me that she idealises the 50’s, and wishes she could stay home, look after her family and man while he went forth and provided. Its a real shame that more women don’t find that more appealing.”

So has disciplining ones wife and making it ‘morally repugnant’ to leave ones partner no matter how abusive they were. That was the case historically allot of the time.

“I mean, fuck. Its been one of the bases of society for hundreds of years! And people wonder why society is crumbling and splintering?”

I fail to see society is crumbling, its changing, for the positive in my opinion. The idea of marrying a woman who stayed at home all day is so unappealing to me, would be dull. I am all for someone staying home while children are young (up to 5) but I think after that more self worth is derived by going back into society. However each to their own and if one wants to stay home that shouldnt be looked down upon either. Know allot of girls who actually want to be stay at home wives, thing is often its not monetarly an option these days.
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August 12, 2009 11:37am
Redbaiter

“I fail to see society is crumbling,”

Of course. Your major problem. An ignorant of history socialist raised and educated (indoctrinated) in the Progressive paradigm and therefore completely lacking any ability to relate to reality.

There was a time you know when NZ was light years away from being one of the world leaders in incidence of rape and violent crime.
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August 12, 2009 11:39am
Jeff83

“Sure, but opinion is opinion. Some people would regard degradation of woman with its associated effects on family and public etiquette as a much greater “vice”. Obviously the BCF do, and good on them.”

Pretty sure the problems caused by alcohol (domestic violence) and gambling (addicts – couple of my friends parents were addicts – lost everything) are pretty up there on the vice scale. Thing is most people alcohol, gambling, and porn carries no to little negative side effects, for some it does. Saying porn degrades woman is pretty debatable. Imagine some does, but at the same time it implies in itself woman dont have a sex drive which is redicolous in itself.

However saying that, I still think that the Breast Cancer Society hasnt done anythign wrong, its a society for women and many of its people I am sure would feel uncomforable with money coming from Crowe who is on the fringe of the porn business in some areas and does things to shock more than most.
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August 12, 2009 11:41am
Jeff83

“There was a time you know when NZ was light years away from one of the world leaders in incidence of rape.”

Figures were also understated. Domestic viiolence not reported etc. In saying that yes we do have a problem there but I would hardly say it has been caused by liberalism in general. Considering a small portion of society commits the majority one could say it is more of a social economic issue. How one deals with that me and you would likely disagree however.

Re ignorent of history, whilst I may not of lived it, have studied large portions of it and take great interest in where we came from. How can one learn if one does not learn from the past. Yes society has problems, but I would give my left hand to live now instead of 30 years ago.
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August 12, 2009 11:45am
Cerium

“There was a time you know when NZ was light years away from being one of the world leaders in incidence of rape and violent crime.”

At least it is being reported more now. It wasn’t long ago a lot of it was ignored as being “domestic”. Worse than that, it was regarded as legal.
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August 12, 2009 11:46am
Redbaiter

“At least it is being reported more now.”

Lies- the communist’s stock in trade.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
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August 12, 2009 11:47am
Cerium

That graph doesn’t show (actually it shows SFA) how many women were stuck financially and societally in violent marriages, and who now have the strength and support to remove themselves and usually their kids from dangerous lives. And some of them make a stand and take the stand to try and prevent the criminals from repeating.
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August 12, 2009 11:58am
Bok

Redbaiter, you really see red and nothing else. I did not say SC was a hero, I said Breast Cancer was being hypocritical. Taking booze and gambling money, but saying no to boobs on bikes money. give me a break. Even you cannot justify that one.

The second point is, On the one hand you want people (government) to stop interfering in our lives. Stop telling us that we cannot smack our children when they need it (and I agree) then you say :” but, but, but…. I want to tell you what you are allowed to see and …”

Why is it that those who hold the moral high ground in these matters always end up the worst offenders…

Capill — values in politics and bringing up children
Tamaki .. a paragon of morals..
How many scout leaders and church leaders do you want me to name? All holding up the moral fibre while doing the nasty on the side
Ian Bilby hero of the NZ pentecostal movement in the 90’s

I do not condone things Crow does, I do not advocate porn. But get it straight, dont shout commie meddler on one side and then be a fundie meddler on the other.

I agree that the moral fibre of our society has been eroded, but I put to you that the Patricia Bartletts and the Graham Capills had more to do with that than Crow did.

Bartlett with her the little woman who should stay and be obedient and sex with the lights off attitude did more for affairs and lose morals than crow ever did.
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August 12, 2009 12:09pm
big bruv

Latest Roy Morgan poll.

National Party 53.5% (up 1.5%)
Maori Party 1.5% (down 2%)
ACT NZ 2.5% (up 1.5 %)
United Future 0.5% (unchanged)

Labour Party 34% (up 4%)
Greens 7% (down 3%)
NZ First 1% (down 1%)

Great to see the Greens sinking like a stone, this is the last parliament we will have to suffer through their lies and madness.
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August 12, 2009 12:11pm
Bok

@Redbaiter
“equally bad in some people’s opinion”

Sure, but opinion is opinion. Some people would regard degradation of woman with its associated effects on family and public etiquette as a much greater “vice”. Obviously the BCF do, and good on them

You are equating people getting bashed up by boozy partners (happens a lot) people losing their homes and everthing because mom or dad likes the pokies to the effects on public etiquette? Fair enough. And then to say opinion is opinion (but me is right and a fact, you commie bastards!!!!)

You have just convinced me . I was wrong.
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August 12, 2009 12:21pm
Bok

Big Bruv
You watch the lefty spin come out of this…

Labour on the comeback trail!!!!
Key falters as Labour picks up nearly a 10% increase in support.

When the real headlines are:

Greens lose 30% of their support and soon Labour will have two coalision partners that collectively poll below the threshold.

and
“bewildered unionists stagger back to labour in a tiny trickle as other options disappear.”
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August 12, 2009 12:37pm
Bok

Just in my rant about Bartlett and the way that NZ has been brought up.

We have a go at gen Y all the time and rightly so… in some cases. But in others they are just way ahead of us.

Before I moved to Australia I went down to a famous trout fishing contest. All fairly professional and educated people.
We were all staying in a house we rented (just blokes). One evening there was about 15 or 20 guys there, having a few and cooking a BBQ.

The question was asked how many has had affairs or flings. ( I shamefully admit to a transgression during my first marraige, and the reason it ended. I learnt. ) However more than 3/4 shamefully for some, and proudly for others admitted to having been “naughty”.

It really stunned me, so I asked the guys, and how many of your wives do you think have had affairs? Well the outburst. No, never!!!!
Oh really? So who where you all having affairs with? I asked. Single girls…..?

The moral of the story is that like it or not, in NZ the Gen X and the Baby boomers grew up with a attitude towards woman and to sex that is totally unhealthy. On the outside we pretended that we were morally superior and yet in real life, well….

Think back you guys in your 30, 40, 50 and 60’s. Think back to the parties and think back to how we reacted when some-one brought round a Hustler or Penthouse from their Aussie trip to footy practice. Then let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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August 12, 2009 12:49pm
mattyroo

inventory, when you post a link to a story via your blog, please also place the link to the source story… I cannot access blogspot blogs due to the great chinese firewall, and I don’t want to waste my time searching for it.
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August 12, 2009 12:58pm
david

What was Jamtin’s figures in the last poll and how does that correlate to Labour’s “dramatic rise”
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August 12, 2009 1:03pm
Cerium

“Labour will have two coalision partners ” – that could mean two things. At once.
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August 12, 2009 1:14pm
shady

And yet another baby injured! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2745126/Baby-critically-injured
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August 12, 2009 2:04pm
racer1

I wish we were allowed to take guns to meetings with politians in New Zealand. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/11/2026745.aspx
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August 12, 2009 2:09pm
big bruv

Shady

Do you want to say it or shall I?
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August 12, 2009 2:12pm
shady

We’ll wait till the whanau have their say shall we? (For the sake of their “mana” – I hope we’re wrong!)
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August 12, 2009 2:22pm
KiwiGreg

@ big bruv “Great to see the Greens sinking like a stone, this is the last parliament we will have to suffer through their lies and madness.”

While I would wish it to be true I doubt any of those “movements” are outside of the margin of error. Everyone likes point accuracy for polls but all they are are the mid point of a range of equal possibilities.
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August 12, 2009 2:45pm
racer1

Go ACT! 2.5%, fuck yeah!!

2.5% tail wagging the National dog!

Lucky they know best huh?
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August 12, 2009 2:55pm
Banana Llama

well clearly it was the Colonial Empires fault!? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2745126/Baby-critically-injured

They came to this land and found a flourishing civilization that believed in equality under the law, where a man was not to have his property taken from him in an unlawful manner, where hard work was rewarded and slothfulness discouraged. The Colonial Empire were no better than the Hun! they pillaged and enslaved this magical people of the long white cloud who have never been able to recover from the barbarity inflicted upon them.

Suffer not the Hun to live!
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August 12, 2009 2:55pm
Redbaiter

” then you say :” but, but, but…. I want to tell you what you are allowed to see and …””

Why do you liberals always make this false allegation? You look at what you like. Whack yourself to death. Go for it.

I am not trying to stop you and neither do I advocate the force of government be brought to bear to stop you. These allegations are entirely fale and baseless, and typical of the kneejerk reaction you get from pseudo liberals if you provide any view that does concur with their own.

All I am doing is availing myself of my right to judge you upon your ideas, your speech and your actions, and I find you wanting. As I said above. Go for it. Whack yourself or do whatever the hell it is you want to do, just do not ask me to bless it by turning my head aside.

I say it is wrong, that you are a wanker (literally) and that SC (I’m not going to write his name and give the lowlife any more publicity than necessary) is a scumbag, and I will never step back from expressing that view. If you don’t like that, I couldn’t give a fuck.
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August 12, 2009 4:14pm
Redbaiter

“Capill — values in politics and bringing up children”

To smear all (the millions) moral campaigners or religious people (billions) on the basis of Capill’s actions is rank bigotry and equal to saying all secularists are peadophiles because secularists occasionally commit child sexual abuse.

“How many scout leaders and church leaders do you want me to name?”

Sexual abuse of children takes place at a much greater ratio in secular organisations and schools.

You’re just full of the same old same old peudo liberal lies smears and bullshit. Always the same- scratch the surface of a Progressive, and underneath lies a dose of bigotry and prejudice and intolerance that is twice the level of those who do not agree with your ideas and whom you desperately attempt to smear.
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August 12, 2009 4:31pm
Cerium

Is smearing all (the millions) of Progressive, on the basis of whoever-it-was’s comments rank bigotry and prejudice and intolerance?
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August 12, 2009 4:38pm
Cerium

A man found dead in a Northland ditch had been released from prison just a few months ago after serving a 5-year sentence for armed robbery – and he was due in court again next week for reoffending.

A victims’ lobby group says Raymond Ahitopere Shelford’s death will be justice for his victims and has saved the taxpayers having to fork out for court costs again.

Sensible Sentencing Trust spokesman Garth McVicar said Shelford would not have been rehabilitated in prison.

“He couldn’t handle the outside world and he’s attempted to commit another violent offence, then he’s gone and killed himself. Maybe it’s justice at the end of the day. He’s saved the taxpayers a lot of money by preventing any reoffending.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10590192

Is this what we are becoming, the cheerleaders of death?
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August 12, 2009 4:41pm
getstaffed

How many scout leaders and church leaders do you want me to name?

I’ve worked in church and church youth groups for 30 years. I can not name one leader in our church or any other than we’ve collaborated with who has been accused of sexual crimes, let alone convicted. So yes, please name all the ones you know off… as a public service. Or you could apoligise for your uncharacteristic bigotry. I thought you were better than this Bok.

Oh, and BTW, the 100’s (probably 1000’s) of at-risk young people that we’ve helped into a normal, functional lives are seldom if ever mentioned by the MSM once it becomes known that their stories involve the support of a church group.
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August 12, 2009 4:44pm
Bok

See baiter I am probably more rightwing then you, I just know that one should actually experience life and make your decision
based on that , rather than just mindlessly repeating what you read on acornflakes box somewhere.

“Sexual abuse of children takes place at a much greater ratio in secular organisations and schools.”

In numbers yes, in ratio, no. But then you just make shit up. Give me the ratios and i’ll prove you wrong.
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August 12, 2009 4:49pm
Cerium

MSM seldom seem to do stories about any at-risk young people helped into a normal, functional lives.

I know Church groups are heavily involved in social services.
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August 12, 2009 4:57pm
Redbaiter

Bok, I have the data, not just an unfailing belief in my own self righteousnous. As for your claims to be “right wing”, just look at who your allies are on this subject. You’re a progressive, and the kind of pseudo right winger that has for decades been undermining the cause with their political confusion.

-In 2002 the Department of Education carried out a study of sexual abuse in the school system.

Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

“[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?” she said. “The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml
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August 12, 2009 4:58pm
Bok

Getstaffed I am sorry if I offended you, I am not suggesting for one moment that youth groups are not the savior of many young kids. I myself went to youth group as a youngster and was taught a lot. If you read again what I said, it is that it always seems to be those who campaign the hardest on “moral”issues, that fall the furthest and cause the most damage. I will take you to plenty of churches, youth groups and community organizations that spend their time helping youth (like the ones you no doubt have mentioned) It is the ones who get distracted trying to tell the world how to live and what they are allowed and not allowed to do in their bedroom, that seem to cause the most fallout.

I’ll say it one last time for those to thick to understand. I am not condoning crow. I am calling breast cancer on hypocrisy.

Can you honestly say that the boobs on bikes or even the erotica expo does anywhere near the damage booze and gambling does?

Here is a news flash. You want to see boobs on bikes, you have to go to queenstreet once a year (why you would escapes me)
You want to go get porn, you have to go and seek it out.

But you drive down the road and there is booze ads everywhere. And show me a pub, RSA, sportclub where there is no pokies.
The impact is far greater on society and one-eyed fools like red pisses me off for trying to argue the counter. It is up there with the Libertarianz drug is a victimless crime argument which is the other extreme. Common sense people.

Is it not funny that the same churches that jump up and down like this are the same ones that fleece their parishioners. The likes of tamaki and whats his name City Vision or whatever.

You want to see youth groups that I respect, go to your local pressy, or anglican or RC church.

Again I a sorry if I offended you but read the argument.
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August 12, 2009 5:05pm
Bok

Red go and read that piece again..

Come to mind….

Then they take the figures of number of abuse cases and say that it is more than the total RC enrollments What?
Talk about massaging numbers. There was only 143 000 enrolled in RC schools in Cali for 2007/8
Total enrollment for the whole state was 6.7 million. Total cases (according to this person’s opinion) that MIGHT BE abused could be 442 000 or just over the 7% mark. They do not split out the RC component at all. so we are not told what percentage or what number falls in the RC system.

The thing is that even that is irrelevant , because I my point is not that all churches are bad or that all churches are abusers. My point was the hypocrisy of ah never mind…

Just one last thing. The fact that I sometimes agree with what some-one on the left says , does not make me left. Just able to actually think for myself. And i’ll leave you with a saying my wife always use.

My enemy’s enemy, is not necessarily my friend, and his friend is not always my enemy.
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August 12, 2009 5:22pm
Redbaiter

Bok, your hollow protestations mean nothing to me.

You are a crypto leftist.

I suggest you choose your side, for the time when you could have a foot in both camps is rapidly drawing to a close.

The right is sick of having their foundations gnawed away by white ants like you.
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August 12, 2009 5:28pm
KiwiGreg

Sorry no link but I thought this email was kind of funny (it’s obviously American so you have to make your NZ parellels:

SCHOOL — 1957 vs. 2009

Scenario :
Jack goes rabbit shooting before school,
pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1957 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s rifle, goes to his car and gets his rifle & chats with Jack about guns.

2009 – School goes into lock down, Star Force called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again.. Counsellors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario:
Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1957 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.

2009 – Police called, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it. Both children go to anger management programs for 3 months… School board hold meeting to impliment bullying prevention programs

Scenario:
Robbie won’t be still in class, disrupts other students.

1957 – Robbie sent to office and given 6 of the best by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2009 – Robbie given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. Robbie’s parents get fortnightly disability payments and School gets extra funding from state because Robbie has a disability.

Scenario :
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1957 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2009 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison.

Scenario :
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1957 – Mark gets glass of water from Principal to take aspirin with.

2009 – Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario :
Pedro fails high school English.

1957 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.

2009 – Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. AFRE files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario :
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from Guy Fawkes, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a bullant nest.

1957 – Ants die.

2009- State Police, Star Force, Federal Police & Anti-terrorism Squad called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, Feds investigate parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated. Johnny’s Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario :
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary . Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1957 – In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2009 – Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.
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August 12, 2009 5:36pm
PaulL

Bok, don’t waste your time. If you don’t conform exactly to Red’s philosophies in absolutely every minute detail, you are pond scum, and beneath contempt. There is only one true way, and it is his way.

In his own mind he is entirely consistent – he is denouncing absolutely everything that he doesn’t agree with, and doing it in the strongest possible terms. As is his right. And when someone else does the same to him, he just ups the rhetoric and throws it right back. As is also his right. It’s incredibly annoying if you were attempting to engage in dialogue, but once you work out what he’s doing, it’s at least internally consistent.

Once you understand that he’ll never change his mind, he’ll never concede a point, and he’ll never have anything useful to add to a conversation, you’ll have a fair idea what the appropriate response to his ranting is.
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August 12, 2009 5:40pm
Redbaiter

“you’ll have a fair idea what the appropriate response to his ranting is”

Clearly your own idea is about 150 words of off topic subjective criticism, random bigotry and abuse.

Utterly infantile.
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August 12, 2009 5:44pm
PaulL

Off topic on the general debate thread? Not sure how you’d come to that conclusion. As for the rest (and your exceptionally obnoxious and wrong comments about me on other threads today), well, how about you just fuck right off if you don’t like it?

Oh, and who made you official spokesman for the right? As in “The right is sick of having their foundations gnawed away by white ants like you.” I seem to recall a time a few months back when your thing was to rant at various people whenever they used words like “we” – asking where they got off trying to speak for some group other than just themselves. How about you take some of your own advice?
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August 12, 2009 5:50pm
Redbaiter

Paul, the left has for decades waged war on our culture. Progressive ideas have been a big part of that war, and one of the best strategies the left have ever latched on to. Because it split the right. Weakened their defences like nothing else.

However, the battle lines are getting clearer everyday. In the end, the war will be between the Secular Progressives and the Christian Conservatives. Choose your side, for it will be plainly impossible to have a foot in either camp.
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August 12, 2009 5:58pm
big bruv

Red

I am far from what you call a secular progressive but I am also not a Christian conservative, the whole concept of a “higher power” is just ridiculous to me.

So how do I fit in?, I detest pinko’s with a passion but I am sure as hell not going to be lumped in with the religious extremists either.
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August 12, 2009 6:06pm
Bok

Thanks for the advice PaulL.
I was just about to git dem white robes out and give the missus a slappin for talkin back, just so as i could cummunicat with the red but maybe it aint worth it.
Jesus I honestly believe the guy is a labour plant or even a green plant. One cannot be that thick and walk and breath at the same time.
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August 12, 2009 6:11pm
PaulL

No Bruv, according to Red’s diktat, you must choose a side. For us or agin us.

To be (sort of) fair, it doesn’t mean he’s going to come around and shoot you tomorrow for disagreeing with him. Just that where-ever you disagree with him he’s going to point it out loudly and long. As is his right.

My problem is that many of the Christian Conservatives that I meet are in favour of the state controlling aspects of our lives that I’d rather the state not having control over. I’m not clear whether Red also favours that – he certainly bemoans the decline in moral standards, but this doesn’t necessarily mean he wants the govt to do something about it – he might just want people to of their own accord behave differently. Which then leads to the question of who gets to set the definition of “Christian Conservative”.

I’ve fallen into the trap of arguing this with Red before, and usually the things I don’t like about Christian Conservatives turn out to be things that don’t fit within his definition – that is to say, if I defined Christian Conservative the way Red did, I’d probably be OK with them.
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August 12, 2009 6:15pm
Redbaiter

Bruv, nobody is asking you to be a religious extremist, or support religious extremists, and I’m not really talking about religious extremists.

This habit of labelling as “extremist” everybody who might have some mild faith or chooses a different answer to the mysteries of time and space to the secularists is something we must guard against.

I’m not religious myself. have never been in a church in my life other than for deaths and marriages etc. Nevertheless, I have made my decision, and I’d rather have one Christian Conservative in the foxhole with me than a hundred Secular Progressives. I’d take one Ronald Reagan to a million Joe Stalins.

IMHO, mild religious belief is far more beneficial to society overall than the widespread amorality of the Progressives.
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August 12, 2009 6:17pm
labrator

Choose your side…

Now redbaiter is starting to get a little scary… War? Defenses? Battles? Christian’s vs the secular?
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August 12, 2009 6:19pm
Redbaiter

“My problem is that many of the Christian Conservatives that I meet are in favour of the state controlling aspects of our lives”

I doubt it. I addressed this same old false allegation above. Obviously it didn’t find its way past Paul’s self righteous intellectual armour.

It is the Progressives who desire government to intrude. (Sue Bradford for example) Christian Conservatives want small unobtrusive government.

They do though want the right to judge you. Behave as you want, but do not assume that others should be prevented from expressing disapproval of what you might do.
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August 12, 2009 6:24pm
Redbaiter

“Now redbaiter is starting to get a little scary”

Good. You need to feel fear.
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August 12, 2009 6:25pm
Hurf Durf

Haha, racer goes to msnbc. Surprise surprise.
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August 12, 2009 6:33pm
Patrick Starr

Did I just imagine that – Did anyone else just hear that leftie fruit loop Mike Lee speculate on TV1 news that the dead marine life in the harbour and dead dogs on Milford beach is a result of dairy farming run-off coming up from the firth of Thames?

Its hard to believe but he even said it with a straight face. This is coming from the chairman a regional council that consents raw sewage discharge off the same beach
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August 12, 2009 6:33pm
Redbaiter

“Haha, racer goes to msnbc”

Every remark he makes here is underpinned by the same old left wing mainstream media propaganda. A complete waste of time.
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August 12, 2009 6:35pm
big bruv

“IMHO, mild religious belief is far more beneficial to society overall than the widespread amorality of the Progressives”

No argument from me on that score Red.

However, I think I will stick with the old fashioned “conservative” of even “right winger” if you don’t mind mate, while you and I share the same goals and aims I refuse to be lumped in with the more fanatical of our religious pals.
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August 12, 2009 6:39pm
Haiku Dave

well look who it is!
redbaiter, that well travelled
cosmopolitan

i trust this post’s been
ideologically
‘pure’ enough pour toi
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August 12, 2009 6:40pm
getstaffed

Bok, apology accepted – thanks. that said, i wasn’t really offended, just pissed off that once again Christian groups seem to be singled out for a bashing on sexual crime. I do wonder how many convicted sex offenders attended church in the days preceding their offence(s). my guess, and it is just a guess, is that they’d be under representative of the church vs non-church attending populations. and while going to church doesn’t make one a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes one a hamburger, the relationship between church attendance and sexual offending would make an interesting investigation.
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August 12, 2009 6:44pm
Redbaiter

“I refuse to be lumped in with the more fanatical of our religious pals.”

Fanatics come in all shapes and sizes. The worst of them are those who are fanatical about increasing the size and influence of government.

America is the proving ground of ideas, and there the silent majority, the sleeping giant, has finally been awoken, and leading the push back against the subvsersives are the Christian Conservatives. People like Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin are hated and feared by the left for one real reason, and that is they are the right’s most powerful and effective weapons.

Notice how the left marshall all their forces against Palin and Bachmann? Their media apologists in the mainstream, progressive entertainers like Letterman etc. have all been instructed to go after them with as much hate lies derision and ridicule as they can muster.

If they were the idiots the left try to portray them as, the left would not be focusing all their fire upon them.
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August 12, 2009 6:51pm
Haiku Dave

there’s a big wide world
out there, little man, get out
there and carpe diem
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August 12, 2009 6:54pm
Haiku Dave

red, i think you and
sarah should be together
in alaskan dreams
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August 12, 2009 6:56pm
big bruv

I see that Pelosi and Obama have sunk to new depths in their attack on those who dare question them, all over the USA communities are holding town hall meetings to let their local representatives know that they are far from happy with B Hussein Messiah Obama and plastic Pelosi’s rapid socialisation of the USA.

Pelosi’s response was to cal them all members of the KKK and accuse them of carrying swastika’s.

If some of you are not sure who Pelosi is or what she is all about think Helen Clark and multiply that by 100, while Clark is a nasty and vicious individual Pelosi is the epitome of evil.
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August 12, 2009 6:59pm
Redbaiter

Hackneyed Dave, why don’t you tell me how many countries I have lived in and how you know this.
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August 12, 2009 7:00pm
Nomestradamus

Could someone get a room for Haiku Dave and Philu? That way they’d have an outlet for their garbled English (each other), and the adults can talk 🙂
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August 12, 2009 7:12pm
Haiku Dave

as the nun said to
the eunuch, “can’t we just sit
here and laugh at you?”
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August 12, 2009 7:14pm
Redbaiter

Yep, you and your imaginary friend should just sit their and laff Hackneyed. Save Kiwiblog any more of your dumbarsed narcisstic and pretentious attempts at prose.
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August 12, 2009 7:38pm
Haiku Dave

they say that travel
broadens minds, till you can’t get
your head out the door
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August 12, 2009 7:55pm
Steve

Nomestradamus

“Could someone get a room for Haiku Dave and Philu? That way they’d have an outlet for their garbled English (each other), and the adults can talk”

Try some punctuation the Phool’s way.
..there’s a big wide..
.. world out there little..
..man.. get out..
..there..
..they say that travel..
..broadens..
..minds..
..your head out the door
ah, no more
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August 12, 2009 8:28pm
Steve

drug crazed fuckwit
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August 12, 2009 8:29pm
KiwiGreg

I think Haiku Dave
Has a real talent for verse
But I am nowhere near as good.

Also at 6:56 unless you pronounce it ala..ask..ken
it doesn’t
really work
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August 12, 2009 8:45pm
KiwiGreg

Also can all the god botherers line up on the left.
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August 12, 2009 8:46pm