General Debate 13 September 2009

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Viking2

On the good side of the ledger. The Nats. should be praised for this action.

Govt settles with West Coast sawmillers
By GILES BROWN – The Press
Last updated 05:00 11/09/2009

West Coast sawmillers say Government compensation is less than half what they had sought.

Economic Development Minister Gerry Brownlee said yesterday that $4 million would be paid to four Coast sawmills to settle their long-running dispute with failed state-owned enterprise Timberlands West Coast.

The Labour government banned logging of rimu in 2000, but Timberlands said 350,000 cubic metres of radiata pine would be available annually to keep the mills working.

However, a report commissioned by the National Government found Timberlands had been aware as early as 1997 that yields could not exceed 250,000cu m.

Sawmills made big investments based on the inaccurate projections, and when this led to mill closures and staff layoffs, the sector demanded compensation from the Government.

Brownlee said he hoped the payment would end the dispute.

The two operating sawmills that will receive part of the $4m are Westco Lagan, near Hokitika, and Westimber, in the Grey Valley.

WE Whiley and Co in Hokitika, and Inangahua Sawmilling near Westport will be compensated but stopped operating last year.

Part of the agreement is that the sawmills will not sue the Government for more money.
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September 13, 2009 11:06am
nickb

Who else was at the game last night! Wasn’t it awesome?
Well, apart from the rugby…
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September 13, 2009 11:06am
calendar girl

Colin Espiner appears to have given up on his blog – no new post for 12 days.
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September 13, 2009 11:08am
Brian Smaller

I was thinking that the way to deal with thee stupid rioters in Dunedin will be to go through any video footage and the Universities (Otago, Canturbury and any others) need to expell anyone identified. No refunds, too bad if you are half way through a Medical degree. The last two nights have been mayhem for the sake of mayhem.
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September 13, 2009 11:09am
Viking2

No just cut out the student loans. Saves money all round and makes those that are students realise that money is hard to get and should be appreciated.
Tough on others but we are long past continuing to be nice to the takers in this country.
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September 13, 2009 11:11am
Fisiani

Just finished doing the Nevis bungy at Queenstown. 8.3 secs of freefall adrenaline. Awesome 134 metres. Fantastic weather here. Wow
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September 13, 2009 11:13am
nickb

Agree Brian. What mongrels.
And the second one of the rioters gets hospitalised for being pepper sprayed etc, the students union’s and other assorted groups will scream “POLICE BRUTALITY!!!”
Give the police rubber bullets or something.
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September 13, 2009 11:19am
Redbaiter

Someone needs to tell John Key to go to the National web page and check out its party “principles”-

– Equal citizenship and equal opportunity
– Individual freedom and choice
– Personal responsibility
– Competitive enterprise and rewards for achievement
– Limited government

How long are the NZ people going to tolerate politicians professing to have a set of principles and then when they get in to power, acting in a way completely contrary to those principles?

How does sucking up to the racist Maori Party, and having to be dissuaded by a strong stand by Rodney Hide from giving them special seats on the Auckland council, not betray the principle of equal citizenship and opportunity?

How does (for example) hammering tobacco producers, business people engaged in a lawful business from which the government reaps millions of dollars in unearned income, and forcing them to print government mandated propaganda on their products, not betray the principle of “individual freedom of choice”?

How does their support for scores of nanny state laws such as Sue Bradford’s anti-parenting bill, not betray the principle of “personal responsibility”?

How does their support for the global socialist propaganda based initiative of Cap and Trade not betray the principle of support for “competitive enterprise”..????

How does all of the above add up to acting in line with what I think is the most important principle, “limited government”???

“You lie” cried Joe Wilson as he listened to Obama trying to sell his health care bill by way of a national televised address. Wilson was seen by millions and as a result, he raised over $1 million in donations immediately after.

Well, where are the Joe Wilson’s in NZ???

Nowhere that I can see. We’re meant to warm to Key because he uses a megaphone to address unionists. Sure it’s a welcome change in approach, but its window dressing. We’re really meant to support National because its a party that professes to be driven by the principles above.

They are not. They do not act on those principles. In fact they daily betray them.

Like Obama, they’re liars.

How long is the NZ blogosphere, and the so called right wing blogosphere in particular going to succumb to the National Party’s lies??

Look at the momentous events in the US. Millions in the streets protesting big government and the failure of the Republicans to act in opposition to socialism. Their failure to act as their principles should force them to. Here in NZ the Nats represent a similar failure to step up to the plate.

The Nats embrace socialism. Are never heard to say a word against it. Yet socialism is the exact antithesis of all of the principles above that the National party professes to hold dear.

Where are the Tea Parties in NZ?

More importantly though, where are the RW bloggers who so passionately attacked socialism when the Labour party was in government?? Fought so valiantly against the Klark regime. I admired them and I’ll bet so many other readers did to. I believed that as a result of their efforts, we were approaching an historical turning point.

Now, the passion seems to have dissipated and we’re floating aimlessly in the same old stagnant socialist tide as we have always floated in over the last few decades.

I believed in those bloggers. Now I wonder, we’re they really just National party propagandists lying to us as well??
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September 13, 2009 11:27am
ernesto

Where are the Tea Parties in NZ?

Tea bagging is soooo 2008.
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September 13, 2009 11:36am
Cerium

“I was thinking that the way to deal with thee stupid rioters in Dunedin will be to go through any video footage and the Universities (Otago, Canturbury and any others) need to expell anyone identified.”

What about those filming the video footage? If they had ignored this “event” it would have been a non-event. This is reality TV at it’s worst.

And it is what Redbaiterism seems to desperately want – people “protesting” and creating mayhem because they are being manipulated by people with an agenda.
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September 13, 2009 11:38am
Redbaiter

Good news item on American protests-

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53935
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September 13, 2009 11:40am
Rodders

A (presumably unintentionally) amusing interview with Jim Anderton on Q&A this morning. Among his howlers:

Mr Anderton claimed that a coup against Bill Rowling happened during an election campain. In fact, the coup happened 11 months before the 1981 election. Also, not many writers on that period regard Jim’s determination to keep Bill Rowling as leader was anything other than Jim wanting Bill to keep the seat warm for him.
Jim also said that the Progressives will not have a party list at the next election and he had given Labour the benfit of his advice on how to win electorates. When he was president, Labour candidates received more votes than National but won fewer seats.
Jim added that he had represented Sydenham for quarter of a century, usually with increased majorities – The seat he has represented for the last 13 years is called Wigram (or is Sydenham the only suburb within his electorate?)

It really is time for Jim to plan for his retirement.
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September 13, 2009 11:42am
Chuck Bird

It will be interesting to see if Labour adopts this hair brained policy. I would appear that Labour is still going to allow the militant homosexual branch of the Labour Party to promote their failed sexual health policies. When homosexuals get their HIV down to what it is for heterosexuals then they may be in a position to they the rest of us how to behave.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10596944
Condoms on Labour’s new to-do list
4:00AM Sunday Sep 13, 2009
By Patrick Gower

Taxpayer-funded condoms at supermarkets, dairies and service stations are on today’s Labour Party agenda.
But its rainbow sector group says it should only be for “basic” condoms – meaning the subsidy would not extend to the flavoured and ribbed varieties.
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September 13, 2009 11:45am
Cerium

People of Dunedin should be in the streets protesting against the trash who trash the place. There’s a good bet the court news will show that a significant proportion are not students, but hoons looking for any excuse to act like arseholes. Thanks to advance publicity from TV news!

The US protesters a different, they are pawns being stirred up in a bigger more dangerous game.
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September 13, 2009 11:46am
bharmer

Brian Smaller (1668) Vote: 3 1 Says:
September 13th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I was thinking that the way to deal with thee stupid rioters in Dunedin will be to go through any video footage and the Universities (Otago, Canturbury and any others) need to expell anyone identified. No refunds, too bad if you are half way through a Medical degree. The last two nights have been mayhem for the sake of mayhem.

The behaviour of the students concerned is disgusting, and unlawful.

However, all punishments need a basis in law. How would your solution work in respect of the contract between the university and the student?

Signing on as a student does not give the university any particular mandate or guardianship rights by which to regulate the private lives of its customers. They haven’t joined the army. There is no authority relationship between the institution and the student except as it applies to the things they do as part of the institution.

While the students definitely need to wear some consequences, it has to be left to the police and the people whose property was damaged to use proper processes.
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September 13, 2009 11:49am
Cerium

“Good news item on American protests-” – good news for those wanting to overthrow a democratically elected government.

From the linked article:
““It is not a personal battle against President Obama or a partisan battle,” said DeMint. “It is a battle between big government collectivism and freedom-loving Americans.”

DeMint tea party? Where were they when GW kept expanding government and restricting freedoms? Too busy reading tea leaves?
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September 13, 2009 11:56am
Redbaiter

“Where were they when GW kept expanding government and restricting freedoms? Too busy reading tea leaves?”

You’re merely an uninformed moron if you believe Obama was the single impetus for the uprising. As I said above, the Republicans were failures at doing what they said they would do and abiding by Republican principles. That was why I made the comparison to National. Take a refresher course in comprehension before wasting any more time with such inanities.
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September 13, 2009 12:11pm
Angus

Shit, they were only expecting 150 thousand max.

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/09/first-reports-from-ap-and-ny-times.html
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September 13, 2009 12:17pm
Redbaiter

Go Home!’: DC Crowd Drowns Out CNN Reporter During Live Report

http://www.breitbart.tv/go-home-dc-crowd-drowns-out-cnn-reporter-during-live-report/
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September 13, 2009 12:20pm
Cerium

“You’re merely an uninformed moron if you believe Obama was the single impetus for the uprising. ”

Is it an uprising? You wish. An uprising of thinly veiled stupidity. Especially if you think you can get protesters in our streets waving “Key is a Nazi” posters.
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September 13, 2009 12:24pm
Angus

Red, have you seen the Beck – Horowitz interview?

It’s always a great insight into how the left operate when it comes from a former communist and red nappy baby like David Horowitz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W276ICvVAd4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B4H4C4dFHs&feature=related
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September 13, 2009 12:25pm
Redbaiter

“Especially if you think you can get protesters in our streets waving “Key is a Nazi” posters.”

Leaving aside the left’s tumult of cowardly smears against George Bush, maybe you can give a genuine example of such a poster being seen at the above protests. (apart from the life time communist and member of the International Socialist Nancy Pelosi’s false allegations and lies on the issue).

(Thanks Angus, I’ll check the vid out.)
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September 13, 2009 12:32pm
somewhatthoughtful

I’m an otago student and I’m also appalled at how this Undie idiocy happens every year, however what it really proves is that the hardline approach isn’t working and the students aren’t afraid of riot police. Couple this with the fact that a whole group of people are still allowed to drive from chch to dunedin, whether peter chin and the maori hill matrons like it or not then they need to find another solution. I still think they’ve taken the wrong tack from the start, opposing it and saying they didn’t want it happen was never going to stop it happening, and as long as there are more students than police in a crowded area the risk of arrest is not that great. The powers that be need to either engage with OUSA and ENSOC (who both need to stop blaming each other and realise that their member’s are acting like twats) and hold a constructive controlled event or expect that for a weekend in september there will student riots for the next few years.
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September 13, 2009 12:36pm
philu

here is a warning review on that beatles vid-game

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/just-how-good-is-the-beatles-rock-bandin-short-if-you-stuck-a-beatles-album-on-your-stereo-and-spent-an-evening-playing-tetris-you-would-have-a-very-similar-experience/

“…So we had a go.

And I don’t know if I’m missing something here, but I can’t see what all the fuss is about.

What the first (ever) Beatles video game involves, as far as I can tell, is standing in front of a television holding a small plastic “guitar” with five colour-coded buttons.

On the TV screen a sequence of coloured blobs streams towards you.

Your job is to hit the button on your instrument that corresponds with each blob — or musical prompt.

In short, if you stuck a Beatles album on your stereo and spent an evening playing Tetris, ..

.. you would have a very similar experience..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 12:36pm
backster

Ever wondered how difficult it is to get BAIL if you are arrested on Criminal Charges???

Sunday Star Times…”told Sunday News both Elder and Morris, each aged 21, were searched but only Morris was charged.

He made a brief appearance in Waitakere District Court on Friday and was released on bail to reappear next month. Kickboxer Morris, the son of Head Hunter gang member Chris Morris, now faces nine criminal charges in two different courts. Elder, who is receiving legal aid, faces 10 charges in three different courts.
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September 13, 2009 12:41pm
Cerium

“maybe you can give a genuine example of such a poster being seen at the above protests.”

“Some signs, reflecting the growing intensity of the health care debate, depicted President Obama with the signature mustache of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler. ”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/12/tea-party-express-arrives-march-washington-protest-government-spending/
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September 13, 2009 12:42pm
Bok

I love how people like Ceruim operates. If a hundred people march down a street protesting in support of some socialist cause, it is “democracy and people power showing the world…” If i.2 million protest it is “thinly veiled stupidity” ? My god man you are worth a laugh every now and then. I don’t know what the protest is about, I don’t care. I really cannot give a toss about American politics right now. However 1.2 mil is 1.2 mil.
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September 13, 2009 12:44pm
joe90

Well the birchers are Birching the 912 Rally in DC.
,

And as for DeMint, what a guy.

DeMint also stirred controversy during debates with Tenenbaum when he stated his belief that openly gay people should not be allowed to teach in public schools. [1] When questioned by reporters, DeMint also stated that single mothers who live with their boyfriends should similarly be excluded from being educators. He later apologized for making the remarks without specifically retracting their substantive claims, saying they were “distracting from the main issues of the debate.” He also noted that these were opinions based on his personal values, not issues he would or could deal with as a member of Congress. He also favors banning all forms of abortion.
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September 13, 2009 12:45pm
Angus

“I’m an otago student and I’m also appalled at how this Undie idiocy happens every year,”

Yeah. The creme of New Zealand’s academic elite, our future; a bunch of drunken idiots wearing tutus and gorilla masks.
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September 13, 2009 12:46pm
Cerium

“However 1.2 mil is 1.2 mil.”

Or not. WaPa and Fox report “tens of thousands”.

Bok, it is relevant because it’s what RB and a few others want repeated here. They don’t like the government so they want to take it down. They don’t believe in a free democracy, they only want a democracy that does what they want.

It’s refereed to as the tea party (by Fox and others)

“The Boston Tea Party was a key event in the growth of the American Revolution.”
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September 13, 2009 12:55pm
Angus

“They don’t like the government so they want to take it down. They don’t believe in a free democracy, they only want a democracy that does what they want.”

Bullshit. It’s the burgeoning size of the govt that they don’t like and the fact it is bankrupting their county. Why are you commies so ill-informed ? Pull your head out of your arse and watch this. I’d expect it to go WAY over your head, but it’s worth a try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NZ&hl=en-GB&v=DioQooFIcgE
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September 13, 2009 1:03pm
Tassman

A recent survey by one of NZ’s university supports a relationship between the finger and happiness. At first students placed their fingers in the light and after five minutes 95% of them reported to have feelings of fatigue and sleepiness. And when they placed their fingers in a dark place all 100% of them felt excited and happy. They are still doing it in the dark for two days now!
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September 13, 2009 1:05pm
pentwig

Agnus (141) @ 1.03

A thought inducing analysis

Thanks
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September 13, 2009 2:54pm
Jack5

Re Brian Smaller (11.0), NickB (11.10), Angus (12.46) etc….

Why such indignation about drunken students rioting? Yes it is deplorable, but…

These kids are nothing compared with the criminal gangs destroying young NZ with their P and other hard drugs.Why aren’t the police and the media up in arms about the real menace? Gutless? Like boy racers, the students are a soft target: white, largely from good or at least reasonable families, and able to be whacked around without accusations of racism or police brutality. The parents will be too ashamed to protest.

And, ah, Mr Chin, Dunedin’s Mayor. He has just blown tens of millions of his city’s money on a stadium that it seems will probably not be finished for the World Cup. Who’s the real vandal?

As for the university administrations thundering they hope their students meet the full force of the law. These kids are mainly white engineering students. Arts students can march and protest about every lefty cause and bugger all notice is taken. They can chain themselves to railway lines and, absent from classes, try to block mining. That’s okay.

If these Dunedin rioters were not engineering students but were were of some minority, onlookers would be blaming society and wringing their hands and pontificating about what caused the problem.

For balance, Canterbury-ites should take a walk around Christchurch strip or the Dave Henderson booze area late any Friday or Saturday night. Paralytic kids. Girls so drunk and helpless they can barely walk. People peeing and crapping in shop doorways. Bashings. Robberies. No fires but in every other way more disgusting then boozed up teenage boy students. Other regions will have similar districts.

I had no kith or kin in the Dunedin riots, but I was young once, and I am appalled by New Zealand’s righteousness about the behaviour while at the same time being so gutless in not standing up to vicious gang crime. It is hypocrisy to continually scapegoat young groups to create the attention NZ is solid on law and order.

Our “leaders” also generally decline to note that as well as gang-run vicious drugs, NZ youth is being ravaged by cheap alcohol, a low drinking age, late bar hours, alcohol advertising, and the havoc from low-duty STDs, in which the alcohol taste is masked by sweet flavours. Ask any seasoned spirits afficianado. You add water, and only water, to spirits. This allows you to judge the strength and the quality, and will alert the drinker to any bootleg, dangerous spirits that gangs feed into the system in authentic spirits bottles.

The reaction to the riots is: wreck them, scapegoat them, clamp down on them, marginalise them.

Get your engineering degrees and get on the plane to Australia, boys!
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September 13, 2009 3:29pm
nickb

I know what you mean Jack. I hate criminal and gang scum as much as anyone.

But crime is still crime, and as this is the topic of the day, I’m angry at it. Imagine the cost of law-abiding citizens’ property destroyed during the riots, the number of elderly people and children who would have been sitting inside traumatised while this was going on. And all for fucking nothing, just selfishness and a night on the piss.
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September 13, 2009 3:44pm
philu

moral panic of the week…

..(..yawn..!..)

are we back on boy-racers again next week..?

d’yareckon..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 4:03pm
nickb

And how is expressing disgust at criminal behaviour “moral panic”?

Maybe if it was your backyard they were storming through, and house being damaged while your son was trying to sleep, you’d think differently?
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September 13, 2009 4:08pm
philu

maybe..maybe..maybe..

(yawn..!)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 4:28pm
philu

were they wearing engineering school ‘patches’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 4:29pm
nickb

New topic if I may…

http://blog.mises.org/archives/010642.asp

Food for thought for Obama supporters.. so much for the state being “caring”
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September 13, 2009 4:39pm
Cerium

From memory with last year’s undie something like 80% of those arrested were Not students. I don’t think any were Chch students.
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September 13, 2009 5:31pm
Jack5

Whoops! In my 3.29 post my fingers slipped and I spoke of “STDs” instead of “RTDs” — the ready to drinks, the alcopops, the spirits mixed with anything to disguise their taste.

RTDs may well contribute to incidence of STDs of course.
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September 13, 2009 5:49pm
Cerium

“And the second one of the rioters gets hospitalised for being pepper sprayed etc, the students union’s and other assorted groups will scream “POLICE BRUTALITY!!!””

That’s happening now, sure enough TV news is able to find some screamers. Some may be over the topped but they choose to be part of the crowd.
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September 13, 2009 6:11pm
Cerium

Laws in SST: “And so the wars will continue. They have arrived in New Zealand and they battle for the soul of this country. Which side are you on?” He’s talking about conservatives and liberals. Is he Redbaiter? Why should it all have to be a cultural war, winners and losers (Laws of course claims to be on the right side of that)? Seems pathetic. Most people have more common ground than differences.
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September 13, 2009 6:32pm
Bok

Ceruim Sorry I just spent a day having a gourmet picnic in 30 degrees on Sydney’s harbor. I came back and could not believe what I saw.

“Or not. WaPa and Fox report “tens of thousands”.”

Have you read your own post?

That is the same as saying 12 thousand died or 20 thousand died or a million. After a point, it is simply numbers. Now as a good died in the wool socialist, you would know how had it is to mobilize 500 protesters…..

Why do I bother?
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September 13, 2009 6:58pm
Cerium

If you don’t differentiate between “1.2 mil.” and “tens of thousands” then maybe you shouldn’t bother.
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September 13, 2009 7:02pm
Bok

When 1 person dies it is sad
10 is a tragedy
100 is a disaster
1000 is a disaster
10 000 is a disaster

dont be a prat you are (sometimes) smarter than that.
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September 13, 2009 7:20pm
philu

“..Ceruim Sorry I just spent a day having a gourmet picnic..”

still with the food..

..eh..?..

what’s yr ‘patch’..?

a crossed knife and fork..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 7:44pm
philu

won’t somebody think of his liver..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 7:54pm
philu

brilliant..!

mike moore is doing a stream of conciousness number on tvnz7..

(slurring ‘chardonnay schocialists’..)

piling/linking cliche upon cliche..

as only he can..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 13, 2009 8:39pm
Cerium

Students from Otago believe that the tradition of the Undie 500, even if it didn’t start with bad intentions, will continue to attract people that want to riot. “It’s the environment that it creates. It brings out the worst in people,” “They come from all over, just for the opportunity to create trouble, and heaps of them aren’t even university students, but we get the rap for it.”

Canterbury students feel they are being unfairly blamed. Many of those who drove vehicles down for Undie 500 feel that their fun is being marred by “stupid Otago students who think that just because we’re here, they can act like tools and we’ll get blamed”. Arrest statistics speak in favour of Christchurch, with none of the arrests made on Friday being related to any Canterbury or Lincoln student.

“[the students] just reach a certain degree of drunk after which you either get violent, or let nothing in the way of stopping you partying. I think the cops did a good job overall, but they can’t always distinguish who are being dickheads or who just want to have fun.”
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September 13, 2009 8:56pm
Steve

Is someone ignoring someone? oh no, they are ignoring someone else!
Stupid prick.
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September 13, 2009 9:19pm
racer1

“nickb
Imagine the cost of law-abiding citizens’ property destroyed during the riots, the number of elderly people and children who would have been sitting inside traumatised while this was going on. ”

You are obviously not familiar with the area concerned.
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September 14, 2009 2:15pm
nickb

You are obviously not familiar with reality racer
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September 14, 2009 2:25pm
racer1

You dick. How many elderly people and children live on castle st?
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September 14, 2009 2:39pm

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