General Debate 22 Octoer 2009

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kaya

Good morning from paradise!!
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October 22, 2009 9:02am
mickysavage

I want John Key and Rodney Hide to come and talk to my group and give us an inside aspect of Government policy. How much will it cost and who do I pay?
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October 22, 2009 9:02am
grumpyoldhori

Damn, I’m as bad as others.
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October 22, 2009 9:03am
Murray

You don’t want to pay to hear Rodney speak at his partys fund raiser don’t bloody go you moron.

I’m sure they’ll miss you.

Windage is a bitch.
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October 22, 2009 9:07am
Colonel Masters

Does Hide just happen to be in Christchurch that day? Who is paying for him to get there?
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October 22, 2009 9:20am
CraigM

CBS News Exclusive: Study Of State Results Finds H1N1 Not As Prevalent As Feared

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml

Who in their right mind , would line up for an untested “vaccine” with known serious side-effect risks, for a flu that looks to be less serious than the ‘ordinary’ flu that kills half a million people a year.

Further, the US Government is now going to risk giving it to kids who may already have had this flu, but they’re not sure because they stopped testing for it. Given these results, I’m pretty sure I know why they stopped testing. The results were ruining their case for a compulsory vaccination programme.

It begs the question of why the US and other governments are so determined to have a everyone vaccinated against a seemingly low risk flu?

Global over-reaction by any chance?
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October 22, 2009 9:22am
Brian Smaller

CraigM – When I first heard of H1N1 I initially thought that Helen had got a new best friend.
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October 22, 2009 9:26am
cha

A couple of Wired stories about vaccination fear-mongering in the US.

The Misinformants: Prominent Voices in the Anti-Vaccine Crusade.

An Epidemic of Fear: How Panicked Parents Skipping Shots Endangers Us All.
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October 22, 2009 9:33am
dimmocrazy

@CraigM: It’s a lot more ominous than that. Apart from the commercial advantages of mass-‘immunization’ schemes, they also create another thin end of another wedge, the acceptation by the general population that it is OK and acceptable if the government decides that each individual undergoes some form of medical ‘treatment’. Once this has been established through voluntary campaigns, expect that this will increasingly become compulsory, eventually leading to a situation where the entire population has to line up at regular intervals for a cocktail of “health” interventions of uncertain description.
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October 22, 2009 9:33am
cha

And an article by Erin Biba debunks three of the major fears about the H1N1 flu shot.
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October 22, 2009 9:35am
wreck1080

With the Rodney Hide situation, he is saying that he is discussing the Act party and it’s policies.

But, he is local govt minister and Acts policies are also government policies so there is overlap.

And, why is he targeting local government workers for his fundraiser?

You cannot make an opinion based on the media reports thus far.

So, there is no option than to give Rodney the benefit of the doubt unless proved otherwise.
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October 22, 2009 9:38am
david

i may have heard it wrong wreck1080 but I understood that local government received 30 out of 300 invitations – just part of the marketing mix if true.

Also using the words “local government” and “workers” in the same sentence will get you a spell in the gulag sunshine. (Perhaps it was local government Ceos or a particular component of local government who were suggested as possible interested attendees.

As has been previously said, no-one is forcing them to go!
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October 22, 2009 9:56am
Manolo

More lunacy from the doomsayers, as reported today by the Dom Post:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/2987848/Save-the-planet-time-to-eat-dog/
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October 22, 2009 10:17am
Ryan Sproull

Interesting stuff, Manolo.
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October 22, 2009 10:20am
s.russell

The Herald this morning reports on John Key’s speech to a CTU conference.

“Mr Key later said only a limited amount of money was available (for education sector pay rises)”

Trevor Mallard’s response is illuminating: “This (state sector pay) is a priority area and in the end the Government has to find the cash for it.”

Yes, Trevor, the Govt has a bottomless pit full of cash for causes just like this.

The Herald also notes the following:

Labour had $2.6 billion increases in each of its last five budgets, but from next year the National Government would have only $1.1 billion extra.
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October 22, 2009 10:23am
Brian Smaller

More lunacy from the doomsayers, as reported today by the Dom Post:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/2987848/Save-the-planet-time-to-eat-dog/

Reading that article will make me feel a lot better when I run over dogs with my SUV.
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October 22, 2009 10:27am
stephen

It’s not “lunacy” Manolo,

“The title of the book is a little bit of a shock tactic, I think, but though we are not advocating eating anyone’s pet cat or dog

They’re just making a point about consumption.
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October 22, 2009 10:37am
Rufus

Somebody actually took the time to work out how much carbon having a pet generates – some people have waaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands. Saddos.

I expect the papers to be filled with stories of people killing their pets or trading them in for chickens. Not. See how the article quoted some official saying that asking people to get rid of family pets is “not acceptable” or something.

No, but I guess pissing our economy down the ETS drain is????!!!!!!

Idiots all of them. Future generations will laugh at us for this folly.
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October 22, 2009 10:38am
hj

Bad News: Thief breaks into home office runs off with laptop.
Good News: it was (be soft on crime) Brian Edwards house.

Heard on The Panel RadioNZ Wed.
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October 22, 2009 10:39am
Manolo

“They’re just making a point about consumption.”
Making a point? Exactly. I object to that: you worry about your consumption, I’ll worry about mine.

Fundamentalist enviromentalism is making inroads, otherwise how could you justify the publishing of such tripe like that book?
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October 22, 2009 10:44am
philu

no..all you have to do is have vegan dogs…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 10:45am
Ryan Sproull

Manolo,

There’s nothing fundamentalist about acknowledging that there are limited resources in the world.

What was the name of the person who strapped you down and forced you to read this book? I’ll have a word to him or her so it doesn’t happen again.
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October 22, 2009 10:48am
Rufus

Phil you dick, dogs are carnivores. They’ve been designed to hunt, kill and eat meat. Idiot.
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October 22, 2009 10:51am
Rufus

Anyways, human vegans are bad enough. Imagine what it’d do to our pets.

You’d also have to grow more genetically engineered Soya on wide expanses of Roundup-soaked US farmland to feed them all.

Oh, where else did you think your tofu yoghurt and “it’s-just-like-meat-but-it’s-not-it’s-really-just-highly-processed-soy” burgers and bacon come from?
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October 22, 2009 10:54am
Rufus

Ryan – no, the fundamentalist streak comes into the debate when you have one side trying to force “the solution” onto the other.

Especially when the science and the impact/effect of “the solution” is debatable.
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October 22, 2009 10:56am
stephen

Making a point? Exactly. I object to that: you worry about your consumption, I’ll worry about mine.

Research has been done – new information is out there, which you can choose to worry about, or not, or use, or not.

And what Ryan said. I’m not sure what you’re objecting to.
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October 22, 2009 11:00am
philu

rufus..you vaginal-front-door…

dogs are omnivores..

and a shame you didn’t see the lady in the park this morn..

with the 11 yr old carnivorous dog..(sedately walking along..showing its’ years..)

goggle-eyed in amazement at the health/vigor/energy of my 12 yr old vegan dog..

(leaping around like a boisterous puppy..)

(and her six year old vegan daughter..

(one of those convinced in yr ignorances..there..?..eh rufus..?..)

if you key ‘vegan dogs’ into the whoar search-engine..

you’ll find all the evidence/photo-galleries you’ll need..

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan+dogs

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:01am
david

Refer the Sydney Morning Herald today (Column ‘8) regarding the preparation of “roof rabbits” when nutritional needs are pressing.
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October 22, 2009 11:01am
NOt1tocommentoften

What are your reasons for being vegan philu? I don’t really see it as a principled position myself, but everyone has their views I suppose.
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October 22, 2009 11:04am
philu

“..You’d also have to grow more genetically engineered Soya on wide expanses of Roundup-soaked US farmland to feed them all.

Oh, where else did you think your tofu yoghurt and “it’s-just-like-meat-but-it’s-not-it’s-really-just-highly-processed-soy” burgers and bacon come from?..”

vegan dogs have an environmental footprint a fraction of a carnivorous dog..

and..most soy is grown to feed to animals..

so..y’know..!

your hole is just getting deeper and deeper..

any more ignorances you’d like corrected..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:05am
philu

personal health/environmental footprint..

but mainly..the institutionalised-sufferings of the animals..

is why i’m vegan.

(plus..i know quite a few vegans in their 60’s-70’s..

who’ve been vegans for 30-40 yrs..

who are in really bloody good knick..eh..?..)

i look at them..i look at the carnivores..

and it’s ‘no contest’..

the eye-evidence is all you need…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:09am
Brian Smaller

Philu – I must have missed the bit about dogs being into vegetables when I saw that docu on Animal Planet with the wolves tearing the living shit out of deer and gobbling all that bloody meat.
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October 22, 2009 11:09am
Pete George

Especially when the science and the impact/effect of “the solution” is debatable.

When wouldn’t it be debatable? If you change nothing unless there is nothing left to debate you will end up in a sorry state.
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October 22, 2009 11:11am
NOt1tocommentoften

Philu – do you think that all your vegetables and vegan product is grown without the help of animals? Dead animals in the soil certainly come to mind. Have a look at this great article on the unassailable position of meat eaters and why it is ethical to eat meat: http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/killing-sacred-cows. It’s a good read. And from a greeny too.
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October 22, 2009 11:15am
Rufus

Phil you tool – look at a dog. Look at it’s TEETH for crying out loud. A dog – is – a – carnivore.

If a dog was an omnivore, it would have molars for grinding down vegetable matter like a cow.

By making your dog exist on a vegan diet, you are simply imposing your ideas, your beliefs, your philosphy onto your dog.

And your dog deserves better than that.

A dog is a carnivore. Like it’s predecessor, the wolf. Fact.

Now they may be opportunistic and eat a bit of vegetable matter from time to time. In fact, some dogs seem to do ok on a vegetarian diet for a while.

But fact remains – dog = hunter, killer, meat-eater, carnivore.

You are not allowing the dog to fully express it’s essence, it’s being – you are not allowing your dog to be a dog.

Rather you’ve turned your dog into a canine hippy.
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October 22, 2009 11:15am
philu

then there are the serious health implications/outcomes..

the linking of meat/dairy consumption with a range of cancers..(bowei..esp. for meat..)

and our world-beating rates of meat/dairy-consumption..

i feel..go hand in hand with our worldbeating rates of those cancers thus linked..(!)

y’know..!..do the maths..!..eh..?

i’ve never had any problem joining those dots..eh..?

in fact..i find it hard to come up with a reason not to be vegan..

(and no..!..the smell of pig/bacon cooking..does not make me go ‘yum!’..)

phil(whoar.co.nz
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October 22, 2009 11:15am
dad4justice

phool is in another vege state. Yawn back to work.
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October 22, 2009 11:17am
dave

Hey philu,

with regards to joining dots…. and vegan dogs….!!….

and things that make you go ‘yum!’…..

I’ve found the perfect job for you. Wanna apply?
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October 22, 2009 11:20am
philu

rufus..smaller..

the word is ‘omnivore’..

(do you need a dictionary..?.)

i do like that ‘canine hippy’ label tho’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:22am
Rufus

dave, he would, but applying for work is too much hassle.

Easier to collect the dole and be a bludger.

Right, Phil?

I feel sorry for his dog. I really do. I’d like to take its little hemp shirt off, and take it out to the wild, take it rabbit hunting.
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October 22, 2009 11:23am
Ryan Sproull

Phil,

What about vitamin B12?
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October 22, 2009 11:24am
philu

dave..

i know..!..i know..!

‘dream-job’…

i could do that..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:24am
Rufus

Phil

Carnivore – big teeth for ripping flesh, breaking bones. Short digestive system.

Omnivore – littler teeth, plus molars for grinding down plants. Longer digestive system.

Herbivore – no sharp pointy teeth, just ones for for nipping grass and molars for grinding. Long digestive system.

Dog, wolf = carnivore.
Human = omnivore.
Cow = herbivore.

But hey, don’t let the real world etc get in your way.

Waste of carbon you are mate.
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October 22, 2009 11:26am
philu

ryan..they also get these vegan dog biscuits…that have everyrthing in them..

and once again..

the mother is 12 years old..

and gambols like a puppy..

the eye-evidence..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:27am
philu

that’s a very narrow focus you have there..rufus..

.the teeth..

..eh..?

why not ask a vet/google/do something..!

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:29am
Brian Smaller

the mother is 12 years old..

and gambols like a puppy..

You see what you have done to the poor animal. Sheep gambol.
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October 22, 2009 11:30am
Brian Smaller

Phil – if you gave your dog meat it would eat it. Really quickly. I have seen a hungry dog eating wood, it didn’t make it a termite.
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October 22, 2009 11:32am
philu

i’m not ‘on the dole’ rufus..

i receive a domestic purposes benifit..(for the usual reasons..)

you really are the one for getting the simple facts wrong..aren’t you..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:33am
Manolo

“Waste of carbon you are mate.”

Oi, be careful: Carbon is likely to take offense 🙂
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October 22, 2009 11:34am
philu

no smaller..puppies/young dogs also ‘gambol’..

it implies a certain anarchic loose-jointedness..

..and a delight of discovery in/of the actual physical action..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:36am
Ryan Sproull

I meant where do you get your B12, Phil?
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October 22, 2009 11:39am
Rufus

Phil you moron – just because you feed your dog a vegetarian diet, and it doesn’t die, doesn’t make it an omnivore.

A dog is, has always been, a carnivore.

Observe the closest to a dog in the wild, and you will see it doesn’t pine after a soy-latte-shake, or tofu burgers, or a vegatarian dog biscuit. They hunt stuff, kill it, and eat it.

Feeding dogs vegan stuff says that you are imposing your beliefs onto another creature, a poor, poor creature who looks to you to look after it.

You’re being negligent in your duty of care.

Dog = carnivore.

Basic physiology buddy.

DPB = dole.

Bludger.
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October 22, 2009 11:44am
philu

i share the dog biscuits..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:49am
philu

and rufus…that little salvo of ignorances/ad hominemae .

sees you graduate to the ignore/shit-list..

eh..?

you’ve got nothig of any interest to say..

..and are as thick as pigshit..

so..! y’know..!..eh..?

enjoy the company/droolings of the other knuckledraggers there..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 11:53am
Ryan Sproull

i share the dog biscuits..

Heh heh.
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October 22, 2009 11:59am
Pete George

There would be far less species diversity if some species didn’t eat other species.

There are strong indications that cooking and eating meat were significant contributions to the development of humans, especially the brain.

Meat eaters don’t need to spend anywhere near as much time eating as herbivores. They tend to be a lot smarter than herbivores, possibly because of their diet, possible because they have to do a lot more than stand around munching foliage all day in order to survive.
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October 22, 2009 12:08pm
Murray

Rufus in proof that even a stopped clock is right twice day phil is in fact correct. Dogs are omnivors. They can actually live on veggies and do not need the high protien diet that cats do. Which is why cat food can be more expense than dog food.

Humans too have canine teeth but unfortunately the curd bean muching vegans are still refusing to die off in droves.
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October 22, 2009 12:15pm
sbk

hey,Philu dont forget to tune into PrimeTV this friday 9:30pm..”Messing With Heads”..
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October 22, 2009 12:16pm
llew

Rufus (34) Vote: 3 0 Says:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 am
Phil you tool – look at a dog. Look at it’s TEETH for crying out loud. A dog – is – a – carnivore.

If a dog was an omnivore, it would have molars for grinding down vegetable matter like a cow.

Mine likes apples 🙂

here’s what wikipedia says about dogs’ diets:

“Diet
See also: Dog food

Some sources describe dogs as carnivores.[82][83] Other sources describe dogs as omnivores, despite their descent from wolves and despite their classificatioon in the order Carnivora.[2][84][85][86] Unlike an obligate carnivore, such as a member of the cat family with its shorter small intestine, a dog is neither dependent on meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods, including vegetables and grains, and can consume a large proportion of these in their diet. In the wild, canines often eat available plants and fruits.[2]”
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October 22, 2009 12:20pm
Murray

How DARE you come in here and use facts and reason! Good lord man what were you thinking?
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October 22, 2009 12:24pm
philu

“..hey,Philu dont forget to tune into PrimeTV this friday 9:30pm..”Messing With Heads”..”

is it about someone playing with their crop..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 12:28pm
llew

How DARE you come in here and use facts and reason! Good lord man what were you thinking?

Forgot which site I was on.

Before I checked that I considered dogs carnivores in theory anyway. In practice, a labrador for instance, will eat almost anything, including wet cardboard, which surely makes it an omnivore.
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October 22, 2009 12:38pm
Falafulu Fisi

Phil U, here is why psychic claims can’t exist. Let me point you out to some philosophical concepts of the WHY, which you have to start your self-education from it first. It is simple to follow really since it is not a page that’s littered with complex equations to be unreadable for you. Now, start with the following page:

Epistemology – Integration

If you want to read more, then read the whole web site, where the above link came from:

Importance of Philosophy.

Now, once you understand the above, then come back here so that I can educate you more on how those epistemological principles bring in everything that we know including the physical world (ie, physics). It is easy reading Phil, perhaps easier than your Master’s thesis. I am trying to prove that so called educated people like yourself who should know better about the hokum of psychics are no better than illiterates who endorse psychics without even applying the notions of Integrations.

Ok, let’s roll. Your turn to bat.
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October 22, 2009 12:41pm
MikeNZ

This article on Uk brings up an interesting conundrum.
Do you want to know what crime is going on around you?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221604/Online-crime-maps-wipe-thousands-house-prices-overnight.html
what do you think?
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October 22, 2009 12:52pm
philu

“..Now, once you understand the above, then come back here so that I can educate you more..”

or not..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 1:20pm
llew

Observe the closest to a dog in the wild, and you will see it doesn’t pine after a soy-latte-shake, or tofu burgers, or a vegatarian dog biscuit.

You’ve never owned a labrador retriever have you.
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October 22, 2009 1:31pm
Right of way is Way of Right

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/australian_navy_sex_scandal.html

I see this is being re-visted by the media. Perhaps not all was as it seemed!

From the Sydney Morning Herald.

No sex ledger but navy investigation continues
October 21, 2009

THE Royal Australian Navy says its investigation into claims of sexual misbehaviour by sailors on the supply ship HMAS Success is still under way.

Senior officers told a Senate estimates committee hearing in Canberra yesterday that the navy had never suggested that the sailors ran a competition with a ”sex ledger” on how many female shipmates they could sleep with. They said that claim was made by the media and it was not part of the current investigation.

The Opposition’s defence spokesman, David Johnston, said this week that navy investigators concluded months ago that the claim, widely repeated around the world, was not true. He said four petty officers, sent off their ship in disgrace, were owed an apology.

Senator Johnston asked the Chief of the Navy, Vice-Admiral Russ Crane, and the Defence Minister, John Faulkner, about the allegations, but he was told they couldn’t do or say anything about the issue until the navy had finished its inquiry.

Senator Johnston said the system was fundamentally flawed and corrupt. ”I don’t think our leaders can hide behind this option.”

He said that for the past five months the accused sailors had been in Sydney and prevented from returning to their ship.

Their names and reputations were still under a cloud. ”The navy has left them swinging in the breeze.” It should have corrected the record once it knew that the media reports were untrue, he said.

Brendan Nicholson
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October 22, 2009 1:33pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

# philu (6317) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 6 Says:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 am

no..all you have to do is have vegan dogs…

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Vegans ARE dogs. Ever seen one that looks healthy? It’s like looking for a smiling jogger.
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October 22, 2009 1:36pm
llew

Observe the closest to a dog in the wild, and you will see it doesn’t pine after a soy-latte-shake, or tofu burgers, or a vegatarian dog biscuit.

But it seems they do like a salad now & then. Heh.

“Wolves supplement their diet with vegetation. Scat analysis found 75% of samples found Yellowstone National Park wolves’ summer diet contained plants mostly grass (Graminae).[86] In some areas of the former Soviet Union wolves have been reported to cause serious damage to watermelon plantations.[75]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf#Dietary_habits
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October 22, 2009 1:37pm
CraigM

11 years for stealing some very special medals – check. Happy with that.

3 years for punching and killing a 78 year old man – Disgraceful.

Could anyone satisfactorily explain this discepancy to you if it was your 78 year old relative and convince you that it is justice?
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October 22, 2009 1:47pm
stephen

B12 is added to marmite!
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October 22, 2009 1:52pm
philu

and there’s pete george..

making a real vaginal-front-door of himself..

(spouting drivel not even worthy of a response..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 1:54pm
Murray

Labs love their lattes.
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October 22, 2009 2:10pm
stephen

Yeah load of crap Pete George. Well whatever. FWIW higher IQs *correlate* with vegetarianism.
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October 22, 2009 2:27pm
Colonel Masters

BTW, what is Octoer?
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October 22, 2009 2:39pm
philu

obama is kicking arse..!

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/obama-pay-cuts-white-house-forcing-bailed-out-companies-to-slash-compensationby-90/

you go..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 2:56pm
stephen

NZ Herald:

The Government will open ACC to competition after striking a deal that will see the ACT Party support proposed ACC legislation when it comes before Parliament next week.

Dom Post:

National and ACT have struck a deal over ACC reform that will see the Government investigate opening the work account to competition.

HUH?
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October 22, 2009 3:04pm
RightNow

It’s a happy day here in Wellington. Labour have no chance of being taken seriously and ACC is going to be transformed away from a welfare organisation (which is nowhere near as good as doing away with it altogether but is certainly better than letting it bankrupt us). I notice Maryan Street at Trev Alert has been saying ACC has a $1 billion surplus. Good to know she’s nowhere near the helm any more.
Key has given me a couple of reasons to smile today too, particularly with his comments in front of the CTU about teachers sacrificing for support staff. What cheek, imagine suggesting that one group should make sacrifices to help another. Of course it would be ok if the group that was to make the sacrifices weren’t a big Labour support bloc. Frankly I’m pleased that Labour haven’t got a clue what reality tastes like. Let them drink chardon eh?
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October 22, 2009 4:09pm
Luc Hansen

Craig

Probably just a sentence swap would do the job.

Or maybe just leave all the sentencing to one judge. Can all be done by computer, a bit like internet voting – click: 3 yrs; click 21yrs…Just bad luck if a hanging judge is in for a while. 😉
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October 22, 2009 4:13pm
Luc Hansen

I heard Tariana on the wireless this morning (I think it was said in Parliament) saying Labour had left the ACC in huge debt. She had the grace to say she is no economist.

According to John Judge, ACC has 10,000,000,000 (10b) invested and Tariana’s “debt” is a shortfall in contingent liabilities and includes in large part, I suspect, although they won’t tell us, of the probably temporary drop in share values and interest rates.

And the need for that contingency fund is hotly disputed and is, in reality, an ideological as much as an economic position.

In terms of premiums to claims, last year ACC ran at a surplus.
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October 22, 2009 4:22pm
philu

the aussie insurance-execs will be popping the champagne tonight..

key has kept that ‘promise to privatise’ he made to them..

back in 2008..before the election..

here is how i reported it then..(july 2nd..2008..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/national-has-plans-to-privatise-accand-should-they-do-thisaussie-insurance-companiesinsurers-will-make-a-killing-of-some-200-million/

“..Australian insurers are poised to make a $200 million killing if National wins power and goes ahead with an “informal” plan to privatise ACC, a broker’s report says.

The report, issued by the Australian broking arm of investment bank Merrill Lynch, said privatisation could unlock $2.1 billion in new premium income, adding an “incremental kick” of $200 million to the industry’s after-tax earnings.

Prime candidates for privatisation were the workers’ compensation and motor accident accounts.

“Publicly, as best we can identify, and contrary to the statements made by several insurers we have met with in New Zealand, the National Party has made no formal statement on its plans for the ACC,” the report by analyst Andrew Kearnan says.

“Informally, however, we understand the National Party has been very clear in saying it will privatise the ACC..

..and we are told there is a well-buried comment on the National Party website suggesting they plan to privatise the market.”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 5:09pm
adc

what’s with 11 years for stealing a couple medals vs 3 years for dragging someone out of their car and murdering them?

what is this country coming to?
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October 22, 2009 5:21pm
philu

and all that money..and all those profits..

..will flow out to australia…

key has just given our world-ranked accident system..

to the australian insurance industry..

(um..!..why..?..)

good one..!..mr key..!

and hide..!

and the maori party..eh..?

(i’m picking they will live to regret that..the maori party..)

(i mean..talk about selling out our soverignty..?

w.t.f..?..)

they are paying a very high price for the repeal of the foreshore and seabed act..

something when it comes to pass..that could well be symbolic only..

and far overshadowed by that ‘high price’..

now ..have i just got this right..?

the maori party..has just voted to give our state run accident system..

to the fucken australian insurance companies..?

and..c’mon righties..!

tell us how this is such a fucken cracker of an idea..?

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 6:03pm
Luc Hansen

It was actually 6 yrs for the burglary and 5 yrs for other charges. Six yrs still seems excessive, especially when there was no threat to persons, but then, a few years ago, a public bar acquaintance was executed in the course of a burglary on an empty unit.
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October 22, 2009 6:09pm
Hurf Durf

ACC is still bust? Socialism works!

Leeching off someone else won’t last very long, phool.
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October 22, 2009 6:21pm
side show bob

Bloody hell Phil save the crocodile tears. Since when did you ever give a fat rat’s arse about ACC, it’s not as though you pay your share. Did you catch old Philin on the TV one news tonight, shit I hope the camera person was wearing a full face mask, old Philin was spewing. It seems this sort of carry on really upsets the socialists/commies, I do hope there is more to follow. Rather give my money to a private company then the state ripoff merchants that are ACC. I have paid thousands over the years an have only made one claim when I cut myself killing a pig. The quack gave me 10 days off and A fucking CC gave me sixty dollars for the effort. Should have saved the pig and taking a knife to this sponging socialist organisation.
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October 22, 2009 6:48pm
snowy

Philu you fucking loser. Until you get a job your opinion is worthless.

BTW your shithouse site doesn’t count as a job.
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October 22, 2009 6:51pm
Luc Hansen

Why am I getting bad karma for the execution of a burglar? I thought my green bin would be overflowing! 😉

And why is a post on General Debate October 15 from the faith fanatic Kris K still in recent posts? Is this a sign of approval?
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October 22, 2009 7:03pm
philu

“..Rather give my money to a private company..”

you would rather give your money to an australian insurance company..eh bloody hands bob..?

you really are an unthinking moron..aren’t you..

btw..i see the river system you pour your cow-shit/farm-run-off into..

has been ranked as the dirtiest in the country..

your days are numbered..eh..?

you think you can just fucken do that forever..?

really..?

and when the pendulum swings..

..you will be screaming..

and you will be castigated/reviled in the court of public opinion..

and the vile/poisonous/cancer-causing muck you peddle..the ‘white-death’..

will be shown for what it is..

once again..

‘all your own work’..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 7:18pm
Hurf Durf

Do you subscribe to Uncensored, phool? Sounds like it’s right down your alley.
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October 22, 2009 7:21pm
nickb

Lol Hurf.
Its like a left wing Investigate.
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October 22, 2009 7:23pm
Patrick Starr

“btw..i see the river system you pour your cow-shit/farm-run-off into..
has been ranked as the dirtiest in the country..”

now theres an idea, get the unemployed and other welfare bludging parasites to clean it up
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October 22, 2009 7:24pm
side show bob

Better go and have your lentils Phil you seem a little aggravated tonight. Oh and please furnish details of the river system my cow shit is running into and could you also contact the regional council on my behalf, I feel like a good laugh.
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October 22, 2009 7:53pm
philu

here you are..

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/10/21/water-quality-tables-paint-clear-but-ugly-picture/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 22, 2009 7:59pm
Pete George

Congratulations Southland!

For the first time in fifty years the shield goes South.
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October 22, 2009 9:29pm
Rufus

In other news, Phil is still a dick.
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October 22, 2009 11:47pm
Viking2

Well, its Friday again but with a holiday attached. That’s nice for some of us early rises.
Meanwhile in blogsville the Blog chief snoozes, Wgtn is still asleep, the suns up and again not a cloud to be seen.
Unfortunatley we still have to post on yesterdays General Debate. How sad.

Probe ordered after juror casts doubt over rape conviction
By IAN STEWARD – The Press
Last updated 05:00 23/10/2009

The Court of Appeal has ordered an inquiry after a juror said a man was found guilty of rape after the juror did not want to spend another night in a hotel during deliberations.

Iowane Seru Sucuturaga was last year found guilty in the Greymouth District Court on three charges of rape and sentenced to 10 years’ jail.

He has appealed against his convictions and has sought Court of Appeal rulings on fresh evidence and on issues raised in a letter from one of the trial jurors to Sucuturaga’s lawyer, Phillip Hall.

In the letter, the juror said that on the third day of deliberations the jury was “at a stalemate as three of us were saying not guilty”.

“It was pointed out to us by the court runner that if we could not come to a decision, the judge said we would have to spend another night in a hotel, which I could not face as I was stressed enough by this case,” the juror wrote. “The stress was affecting my health and basically I just wanted to get home.”

In its ruling on the defence applications, the Court of Appeal summarised Sucuturaga’s case as:

“The retirement of the jury was too long and the trial judge should have discharged the jury from delivering a verdict long before the verdicts were taken.”

“The jury was placed under undue pressure to deliver verdicts, particularly when facing the prospect of a further retirement overnight together at a motel-hotel. There are grounds to suggest an improper compromise was reached on the guilty verdicts, rendering those verdicts unsafe.”

The Court of Appeal said the full hearing would have to address those issues, but it directed further inquiry of the juror who wrote the letter, the jury attendant and the foreman about what communication took place.

Auckland University law professor Scott Optican said a letter from a juror was unusual, but “it’s a pretty long chain of reasoning to get to a miscarriage of justice”.

He said the situation was simply an allegation from a juror. It had to be proved and then it had to be shown there was undue pressure from an outside source on the deliberation process, he said.

The juror also questioned the appropriateness of having two jurors who claimed to have been victims of sexual abuse, although the Court of Appeal declined to examine that aspect.

Sucuturaga moved to Greymouth in 2001 to play rugby.

He met and befriended the complainant and moved into her house in October 2001.

The complainant alleged sexual offending occurred between April 2002 and December 2003.

Sucuturaga was found guilty on three counts, not guilty on one, and verdicts could not be reached on eight others.

The Court of Appeal also granted leave for evidence to be produced from a cousin of Sucuturaga who stayed with him and the complainant in April 2003.
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In an affidavit, the cousin said the complainant asked if he could massage her legs, which “progressed to sexual intercourse, at the invitation of the complainant”. The cousin said he did not tell anyone because he felt ashamed.

A date for the appeal hearing has not yet been set.

One suspects that this is a fiarly common occurrence despite all the protestations of vested interests. Of course unless someone “outs” the behavoir as in this case those that have been intimidated in this or any other way will always remain silent for fear or the repercussions and indeed weight it places on that persons shoulders. As far as I am aware no jury is recorded nor are any minutes of the conversations taken so like so many socialist things (and a jury is a socialist beast) clarity and transparency are never going to see the light of day.
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October 23, 2009 6:33am
Pete George

so like so many socialist things (and a jury is a socialist beast)

??

Using this “logic” you could say society is a socialist beast, therefore a more natural state than capitalism. Except that socialist is a political construct relating to an economic system, as opposed to being judicial – which is another construct of society but it has been around for a lot longer (juries since 1250) than political socialism (1827).

Not yet defined in dictionaries but it seems modern usage of socialist now encompasses a general derogatory term.
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October 23, 2009 7:22am
Pete George

To provide some balance, conservative (1350 but derived from Latin) has had a general meaning, but now also can be used as a political label (French revolution 1790), but modern usage could also be a putdown:

“Conservatives have their feet in concrete and their heads in the clouds” (circa 2009)
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October 23, 2009 7:30am

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