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December 7, 2009 3:00pm by David Farrar

Blunt on Obama and Afghanistan

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United States
Afghanistan
Barack Obama
Blunt
cartoons

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KiwiGreg

I dont get it?
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December 7, 2009 3:29pm
Brian Smaller

Obama’s Afhganistan policy is off the wall model – just a new face. In other words it is a Bush-like Iraq surge. At least that is what I got out of it.
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December 7, 2009 3:31pm
Put it away

Can anyone say “malaise”
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December 7, 2009 3:33pm
KiwiGreg

OK I was looking for some black v white context or corruption or something deeper; better lift my game for the rest of the week /sigh.
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December 7, 2009 3:34pm
Redbaiter

“better lift my game for the rest of the week /sigh.”

That’s OK, we know you’re trying real hard.
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December 7, 2009 3:39pm
Redbaiter

Actually, I don’t agree with the premise of the cartoon.

Obama did not send troops to Afghanistan because he wanted to, but only because it would have been too electorally unpopular for the Democrats not to. If Obama could do as he and his extreme left wing friends would want, they would fold their tents in Afghanistan right now.

The left betrayed their country in Vietnam, and eventually, they will betray it in Afghanistan. (To a greater extent than what they already have of course.) The American left have always signaled defeat to the enemies of their country, and by that means they have been best allies of all who would attack America.

Obama is not the same President as George Bush.
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December 7, 2009 4:03pm
Pete George

That last paragraph is 100% correct. And it looks like that used all your %s up.
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December 7, 2009 4:13pm
malcolm

The left betrayed their country in Vietnam, and eventually, they will betray it in Afghanistan.

Yeah right. All the US needed was a little more home support and they would’ve won against the Viet Cong. Not even close. They’d still be there today.

And Afghanistan is even more of a hopeless case.
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December 7, 2009 4:16pm
side show bob

The left in the US must feel more then a little shattered, myself and many others know how they feel. Yes the new broom has sweep away the dross, just to make room for the same old same old.
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December 7, 2009 4:49pm
Redbaiter

“And Afghanistan is even more of a hopeless case.”

And you wonder why I call you a commie.

Interview with Victor Davis Hanson-

John Hawkins: One last one I want to ask you about; What about Vietnam? I guess it would have been worth it if we had stayed in there and hung in there and helped them become a democracy, but in retrospect, would you say that one was worth it?

Victor Davis Hanson: I do. I think it was necessary. I mean, all our strategic objectives, I think you could argue, were met by 1974. We had American troops gone, we had a viable government in South Vietnam that was working and the danger to it was not coming from local resistance, the Vietcong.

The way that government was destroyed was not through a local uprising which had been pretty well wiped out in the year since Tet. It was a classic invasion from the North which could have been stopped with air power. But, once we had the Watergate fiasco and the cutting off of funds and air support, then not only did we have a disaster in Vietnam with a half a million people interred, probably a half a million killed or missing, another million in boats, plus 30 years plus misery — but we had immediately a holocaust in Cambodia, a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that did untold damage, a revolution in Nicaragua, and the hostage take-over and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in Iran. All that adventurism was based on the premise that the U. S. no longer had the will to follow through with its commitments, had become isolationist, and was shocked and battered and humiliated after losing the war in Vietnam.

John Hawkins: Had we continued aiding them, had we continued to supply them, had we continued the air support, do you think we’d have a democratic Vietnam today?

Victor Davis Hanson: Absolutely. It would be something like Korea. It wouldn’t have been at the first. It wouldn’t have been a liberal democracy the way that we would like it, but it would have been something on the evolutionary path of Korea and we would have ended up with something that would have been an anchor, right there with Taiwan, South Korea, and then Thailand.

It would have been a very good thing and for the counter argument that consumer capitalism is inevitable anyway and it’s liberalizing its economy, there are two answers. One is that we’ve lost three decades those people have had to live under that government and the other is there is no guarantee that government will liberalize politically either. It’s still a Stalinist state.

So I think it was a tragedy all the way around especially because the U. S. military — people forget especially after 1969, 1970, — it fought very, very well and did a wonderful job.
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December 7, 2009 5:02pm
malcolm

And you wonder why I call you a commie.

It’s no mystery at all, Redbaiter. Anyone who doesn’t agree 100% with everything you say or comments unfavourably on any of your sacred cows (Palin et al) is a commie. Brilliantly simple.

Re: Afghanistan. How exactly do you think the US and friends* are going to prevail in a totally backward, feudal and corrupt culture, against an enemy which enjoys the support of much of the population, is largely indistinguishable from the population and which slinks back into that population whenever it likes? Half the population are the enemy and the remainder are potentially the enemy because of their absurd and backward culture of honour and retribution and unite with your enemy against any foreign invader.

Afghanistan is a waste of time. It would be much better IMHO to let Afghanistan sort itself out (might take a few hundred years) and just deal with any direct threat emanating from there with the superior technology (drones, missiles etc) which is so useless when fighting a guerilla war. And help Pakistan fight the Taliban in Pakistan. That’s where it really matters. Afghanistan is just a swamp in which to get bogged down.

*Other than the US, I don’t believe any other countries are involved in Afghanistan because they think it’s worth it. They just want to stay on side with the US, and will do just enough to achieve that.
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December 7, 2009 6:00pm
Simon

VDH is cool. I remember when the US won in Iraq everyone who knew what was happening (Generally anyone outside of MSM, certainly not a leftard like Obama) was saying the US won because they brought off the other side, Bush gave hope to the Iraqi people, Al-Qaeda were animals, the tribal leaders switched, the surge worked & the Iraqi parliament / government clicked etc etc.

VDH just said yep that was important but for him the insurgency gave up because the US Military spent four years killing vast numbers of dead enders and Bush’s surge came at the right time. Great stuff.
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December 7, 2009 6:41pm
RRM

When exactly did Obama make the transition from [the antichrist/ an impostor on a race ticket / a lightweight] to “more of the same” in the right-wing-osphere’s eyes?
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December 7, 2009 6:45pm
kiki

Exactly what has been won in Iraq? and what will victory be like in Afghanistan?

both now have corrupt governments with Iraq sliding back to a dictatorship backed by torture. Iran was the same, they did not rebel because the shah tried to westernise it was because he was a corrupt dictator that stayed there with terror.

The west is not winning just sowing seeds for more trouble in the future.

Ironically we in the west are losing our rights and freedoms in this war on everything and we are losing them to our governments. Soon we won’t know what victory was as we will be as oppressed as those we have been lead to fight.
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December 7, 2009 7:32pm
Redbaiter

Sorry guys, I don’t have the time or energy or interest in correcting the one dimensional ideas of loons who get their information from left wing propaganda outlets and don’t know any better. Just keep helping the enemy. At least its clear what you really value, and freedom sure ain’t high on that list. Me, I’ll always support our troops, and not buy into the lies and propaganda of left wing scum who put our soldier’s lives at risk for the sake of their own political advancement.
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December 7, 2009 8:07pm
Simon

“Exactly what has been won in Iraq?”

Work in progress democracy.

To gain some perspective on Bush’s, the US military and the Iraqi people’s victory you might like to go over the snot nosed Guardian Iraq archives for 2005 to 2007. Take heart.
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December 7, 2009 8:17pm
malcolm

Sorry guys, I don’t have the time or energy or interest in correcting the one dimensional ideas of loons who get their information from left wing propaganda outlets and don’t know any better.

Don’t worry. The burden of being the only person with the truth must be considerable indeed. Have a little time off, Redbaiter.
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December 7, 2009 9:33pm

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