General Debate 18 March 2010

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calendar girl

The DomPost’s online business news section has long been at best a little whimsical. Its perceived importance is demonstrated editorially by the fact that it it is placed after the “Entertainment” and “Weird News” sections. But even more frustratingly many of the featured “Business” stories have little to do directly with business news.

This morning’s offering is an example, the five featured stories being headlined (my reactions in brackets):

– Container space at a premium (that’s a reasonable business story)
– Criticism grows over Housing NZ move (whistle-blowing about alleged HNZ wastage of money – Politics?)
– Poor, elderly fear GST rises (based on survey results – Politics?)
– TVNZ cuts news to save $5m (TVNZ masquerading as a real business?)
– Unprepared for retirement (based on survey of people’s fears – Politics?)

The capital’s newspaper deserves something better.
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March 18, 2010 8:27am
Lazybum

I am off to blow up a P lab today. My self defense is that I think I am saving lives.
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March 18, 2010 8:31am
Luc Hansen

I will have to get back to you, sorry, but I will be blogging on last Friday’s The Panel, on which DPF shared the mic with Chris Trotter.

Jim Mora gave them both an easy ride for some outrageous statements (well, one really from DPF, that I remember, but CT was in fine form!).

Point 1: How easily the word “compulsory” drips off DPF’s tongue.

Point 2: And how easily the socialist (yes, if RB was here, CT is (was?) a true socialist) fell into the same trap.

What hope have we when the proponents of both liberty and complete state control agree on something where the answer begins with “compulsory.”?

Point 3: CT claiming absolution for past atrocities on the basis that today’s morals cannot be ascribed to our ancestors. What a cop put! Can anyone tell me when the Ten Commandments first became a formative influence on our (ie European) ethical framework? And when European colonialism ran rampant? And when “we” bombed to death hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians?

Point 4: CT appears to want a homogeneous society. Diversity is a pain in the proverbial. Anyone remember the White Australia immigration policy? Assimilation is in, diversity is out, according to our friend from the left. Where can I buy shares in a skin whitening company?

So much to say, so little time!
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March 18, 2010 8:36am
expat

Andrew Williams subscribes to the Charles Chauvel school of public relations and persecutes 74yr old pensioner.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10632709
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March 18, 2010 8:44am
Dave Mann

Spy base verdict lets protesters go free:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10632720

I have just read this in the NZ Herald and it staggers me, frankly. What has our jury system degraded into when this kind of shit passes itself off as justice?

The bastards broke into a restricted area and did one million dollars ($1,000,000) worth of damage….. and a jury LETS THEM OFF FREE??? So now the law says “Oh, thats perfectly alright because you only cut up a silly little dome and you were acting on your beliefs so its OK”.

I find it difficult to believe this. Is it April Fools Day already? Would the crown be able to appeal? Probably not I think under the double jeopardy rule, but still….
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March 18, 2010 8:44am
mickysavage

Can someone explain why Tolley would cut funding for a literacy project that was achieving good results in favour of the normalisation of test results that will not do anything to improve literacy?
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March 18, 2010 8:45am
Lazybum

MS – $240M PW borrowing.
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March 18, 2010 8:49am
expat

sorry, where are the results you are talking about? can’t see them anywhere?
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March 18, 2010 8:50am
mattyroo

Calendar Girl – I couldn’t agree more with you about the business news, and it is the same across all our major newspapers. The Herald makes an effort, but that is only because they have a couple of decent business reporters, such as Brian Gaynor, but, I think these guys are up against it and fighting a losing battle.

For any real business news, I go to the Aussie newspapers online editions, particularly the AFR and The Australian, whose business section is in association with the WSJ. Suits me, as I do all my investing in Aussie stocks, nothing worth investing in on the NZX anyway. Well done on that score Weldon!
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March 18, 2010 8:51am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Luc Hansen

“And when “we” bombed to death hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians?”

These would be the same civilians who supported the murder by their army and air force of hundreds of thousands of defenseless Chinese women and children?

The same civilians who were complicit in the brutal slaughter of hundreds of thousands of captured civilians and POWs from Malaysia, Thailand, Philipines, Indonesia?

The same civilians whose sons rushed off in their droves to be part of the slaughtering conquering ‘banzai’ screaming hordes?

Tell me Luc, would you have dropped the A bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki or would you have committed a further three million troops and civilians to agonizing death in a land invasion?
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March 18, 2010 8:56am
sbk

I totally agree with you Dave..kind of opens the door to any crackpot who has a strong political view to act on it..just as long as there is no criminal intent!..FFS !!!.
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March 18, 2010 8:58am
mickysavage

Expat

Hon Trevor Mallard: Did she read and understand the briefing to her as an incoming Minister that indicated that the previous Government’s literacy strategy resulted in student gains in reading and writing that were twice what could be expected without the intervention, and that schools accelerated the rate of progress for the majority of at-risk students by four times the expected rate? If she did read and understand that, why has she not invested more in that area, which has proven results, rather than the $62 million put into her national standards?
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March 18, 2010 8:58am
KiwiGreg

There’s your proof expat – an actual QUOTE from Trevor Mallard.
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March 18, 2010 9:02am
Lazybum

MS – the public like National Standards. You leftard bludgers do not. Labour Party is not mainstream NZ.
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March 18, 2010 9:04am
expat

Thank goodness I have Trevors word, I will treasure that along with the waterfront stadium.
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March 18, 2010 9:14am
philu

“..would you have dropped the A bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki or would you have committed a further three million troops and civilians to agonizing death in a land invasion?..”

c’mon adolf..!..not that hoary old defence of what were war crimes..

a/one bomb on an unpopulated part of japan…

would have achieved the same result..

there was no need for the murder of all those civilians..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 9:16am
Murray

Almost as convincing an argument as an actual punch in the head from Trevor Mallard Greg!
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March 18, 2010 9:19am
expat

Labour has now become the beneficiaries party.
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March 18, 2010 9:24am
toad

@Lazybum 8:31 am

I am off to blow up a P lab today. My self defense is that I think I am saving lives.

Why don’t you just tell the Police where it is?
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March 18, 2010 9:27am
Murray

Once again phool demonstrates the hatred for western civilisation by all communist douce bags. While your talking shit about WWII go ahead and defend the war crimes of Japan.

I wont be replying, I just want you to demonstrate what a complete denialist fuck tard you are and treat everything you say accordingly.

Phool of course would have liked to see the war continue with its 200,000 csualties each week. Thats what drugs and socialism do to your brains kids.
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March 18, 2010 9:28am
Murray

You worried about your investment portfolio toad?
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March 18, 2010 9:30am
Lazybum

Taod – the police have more important things to worry about like giving speeding tickets to everyone (except Helen of course). Think of it as a citizens arrest. It would be nice to think gangs might get raided by vigilanties and burn their cess pits down.
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March 18, 2010 9:39am
Brian Smaller

I did not see the original post by Philu as he is invisible to me, but from Murray’s reposonse I can figure what he said – probably something supporting Luc hansen’s ‘the west are evil for killing Japanese during a war’ post. They also forget that the military party had compelte control over Japan. Those A-bombs saved millions of lives – Allied and mostly japanese. It also made the Russians back off saving us from another split down the middle country in Asia.
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March 18, 2010 9:39am
Put it away

Savage you compulsive liar, how do you convert Trevor Mallard saying the minister should put more money into one programme, into “she’s cutting funding for it” ? She’s putting 36 million more into helping schools meet the literacy and numeracy requirements of the national testing, how do you make this a “cut ” ? Looks like you need a bit of literacy and numeracy funding for yourself.
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March 18, 2010 9:43am
mickysavage

Kiwigreg and Expat

Have a look at page 18 of the initial briefing for the incoming Minister of Education where you will find the quote. The briefing is at http://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/MinEdu_BIM.pdf
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March 18, 2010 9:44am
kowtow

Luc et al really are self loathing dick heads of the highest order.

Anyway can I recommend Iris Changs The Rape Of Nanking,the forgotten holocaust of WW2. Most thickos think the war started with Pearl Harbour.

Japanese imperialists occupied Manchuria in 1931.
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March 18, 2010 9:46am
expat

Mickey, where did the summary in the incoming briefing come from? It’s all a bit tenuous at present as far as I can see.
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March 18, 2010 9:50am
Lazybum

Luc – what do you think of the bombing of Dresden? Bomber Harris is a hero. The enemy is for defeating, whatever the cost to them. Once beaten, then look at humanities.
If I was an Amercan GI in Aug 1945 I know what I would have preferred. They were the people who REALLY counted then, not Jap civilians.
PHOOL – better hide your drug den, I could be after you.
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March 18, 2010 10:00am
James Stephenson

Labour has now become the beneficiaries party.

It’s a international phenomenon expat: http://www.redragonline.com/2010/03/jobless-figures-fiddled-to-hide-massive.html
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March 18, 2010 10:07am
MT_Tinman

Lazybum (12) Says:
March 18th, 2010 at 8:31 am

I am off to blow up a P lab today. My self defense is that I think I am saving lives.

Why blow up a P lab?

From my understanding they blow themselves up readily.

Why not just nick a 60″ plasma TV?

“Well M’Lud, Television is known to corrupt innocent minds and I was only trying to prevent hurt to young children.”
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March 18, 2010 10:09am
RKBee

@expat 9:24 am

“Labour has now become the beneficiaries party”

Labour is a benefiiary.
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March 18, 2010 10:41am
Le Grande Fromage

Was just reading a hilarious rant at the Standard where they respond to a post here in which DPF points out that people might respond to the warming nutters a bit kinder if they weren’t so hysterical.

How do they respond? You guessed it, the standard children on fire in the near future, disease and pestilence hysteria that DPF was alluding too.

It would be tragic how ridiculous these twats are if it wasn’t so funny.
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March 18, 2010 10:41am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

Like pet food, The Standard is not fit for human consumption.
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March 18, 2010 10:46am
Put it away

Fromage – irony doesn’t exist for those people. It’s some kind of right wing invention to undermine their IMPORTANT work
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March 18, 2010 10:47am
Swiftman the infidel

Philu is a fucking idiot.
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March 18, 2010 10:51am
MikeNZ

And I thought Hilary Clinton’s smack on thewrist phone call was on orders from OB1!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/hillary_and_israel_you_cant_te.html
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March 18, 2010 10:58am
Pete George

The Standard is a waste of time as it is, the message police hover, ready to threaten (or execute) a ban for any sort of challenge to their hypocrisy. A huge wasted opportunity to be a credible outlet.
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March 18, 2010 11:00am
trout

I have read the briefing to the incoming Minister of Education; what I see is the typical plea from the beaurocrats; ‘we are not doing as well as we should but give us more money and we will do better’. As to the comment ‘literacy strategy resulted in student gains in reading and writing that were twice what could be expected without the intervention’; who decides what ‘could be expected’ if this is not related to an agreed Standard. So much easier to get valid comparisons and true measures of progress if National Standards are applied.
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March 18, 2010 11:27am
philu

“..I did not see the original post by Philu as he is invisible to me, but from Murray’s reposonse I can figure what he said –”

heh..!..on quite a few levels..eh..?

and..

(good point..!..swifty..!..i hadn’t considered that factor..).

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 1:05pm
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/nz-dairy-farmers-are-polluting-our-waterways-worse-than-ever/

nice one..!

eh..?

‘backbone of the country’..and all that..eh..?

more ‘sewer-pipe of the country’..aren’t they..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 1:18pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 10:58 am,

And I thought Hilary Clinton’s smack on thewrist phone call was on orders from OB1!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/hillary_and_israel_you_cant_te.html

Indeed, Mike.

From your link:

At a time when elements of the American Left embraced the Palestinian cause and condemned Israel, Hillary was telling friends that she was “sympathetic” to the terrorist organization and admired its flamboyant leader, Yasser Arafat. When Arafat made his famous appearance before the UN General Assembly in November 1974 wearing his revolutionary uniform and his holster on his hip, Bill “was outraged like everybody else,” said a Yale Law School classmate. But not Hillary, who tried to convince Bill that Arafat was a “freedom fighter” trying to free his people from their Israeli “oppressors.” (1)

[…]

To his astonishment, as soon as Hillary saw the menorah, she refused to get out of the car. “Bill walked up to me and said that she was hot and tired, but later he explained the real reason.” According to the friend and another eyewitness, Bill said, “I’m sorry, but Hillary’s really tight with the people in the PLO in New York. They’re friends of hers, and she just doesn’t feel right about the menorah.” (2)

It is painfully obvious that Secretary of State Clinton still has issues with the Jewish people and the state of Israel. How tragic that someone with a history of anti-Semitic views and behavior should be placed in such a sensitive position. But then, President Obama would seem to echo Hillary’s sentiments.

In my humble opinion Clinton and Obama are not much better than those in the Middle East (and elsewhere) who desire the total annihilation and destruction of Israel. And this further highlights the possilbility that the (so called) leader of the free world is indeed a (closet) Muslim.

By their fruits ye shall know them …
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March 18, 2010 1:28pm
Luc Hansen

Dealing with Points 1 & 2 (above), the topic up for discussion was the higher, much higher, than average road toll in one of the poorest areas of the country. Chris Trotter initially got to the nub of the problem with a good explanation of effects such deprivation on a population.

But when challenged for a solution, compulsory breath-alcohol testers in cars was the suggestion from DPF. The actual details of the suggestion were not clear eg whether the measure was for the entire country, or just the Gisborne area; or for those already convicted of a drink-driving offence, just in the Gisborne area, which is what I think was meant. And CT, showing the rigid thinking we expect from those of a certain ideology, concurred.

Now really, is this the best a pair of relatively privileged, aging white men can come come up with? Throw up their hands and introduce yet more laws to utilise to lock up more people who are already inclined, for reasons well understood, to disregard the law anyway? And a major side effect will inevitably be jailing yet more of our indigenous people, a unpleasant statistic that is beginning to draw international attention.

What a failure of the imagination! Just lock up more Maori! And don’t forget to throw away the key.

The real solution would involve bringing meaning and hope into these people’s lives, but I suppose that’s just too damn hard.
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March 18, 2010 1:44pm
LeftRightOut

Meaning and hope?

The National party have eliminated all meaning from their policies and hope like hell no one notices.
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March 18, 2010 1:48pm
Gooner

I see National is refusing to back Sir Roger’s bill to reinstate youth rates despite arguing against their abolishment when Labour was in office.

My oh my what the baubles can do aye.
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March 18, 2010 1:55pm
Gooner

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/d/f/e/48HansD_20070905_00001031-Minimum-Wage-New-Entrants-Amendment-Bill.htm

National Party MPs making the argument against abolishing youth rates in September 2007. Read their speeches and ask them all when you see them next if they agree with what they said, and if they did not why did they say it.
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March 18, 2010 2:05pm
Steve

Lazybum,

Starting a vigilante group against dropkick druggies? Good idea, destroy the product on the grounds that it destroys lives.
I’m in. Phool has a lot of long unmown grass to hide the shit. Don’t worry about his dogs, give them silverbeet.
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March 18, 2010 2:20pm
Luc Hansen

Now addressing the canard of “anachronistically” applying today’s moral values to yesterday’s atrocities.

I have already pointed out that our moral values are not at all a modern invention. What is more modern is the willingness to consider the plight of the victims – in general ongoing discrimination and economic deprivation while the perpetrators continue to steal, without compensation, resources belonging to the descendants of the vanquished. This willingness is actually the basis of out treaty process; the basis of the rollback of colonialism (with one notable, increasingly obscene, exception); and a pillar of the concept of human rights.

What CT is saying here is, “Get over it, losers, and move on.” Fine for the victors, I guess.

The real anachronism here is CT’s views. It’s the views of the stone age.

And the same theme is apparent in Point 4 (above), bewailing diversity in favour of assimilation and homogeneity.

Actually, assimilation entails, again, the “spoils to the victor” mentality, where the loser is assured centuries of discrimination, deprivation, incarceration or worse, but told to “get over it, boy.”

I’m quite disgusted that such views went unchallenged and surprised they have not attracted more attention.

But here’s a thought for Chris: yes, Chris, managing diversity is a challenge, it requires intellectual effort, it requires genuine leadership, but your alternative has already been tried and found wanting.
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March 18, 2010 2:23pm
kowtow

God, Luc is boring………zzzzzzzzzzzzz………..
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March 18, 2010 4:03pm
grumpyoldhori

God that piece of trailer trash named Palin is dumb, if you are going to swing at some one make damn sure they are not better at swinging back, which this bloke Grayson is. Chillbilly heh heh.

(On Friday night, Sarah Palin came to Orlando, and attacked Rep. Alan Grayson. This is what she said:

“I got to meet quite a few candidates who are lining up in a contested primary who want to take out Alan Grayson. And I think Alan Grayson — what can you say about Alan Grayson? Piper is with me tonight, so I won’t say anything about Alan Grayson that can’t be said around children. [Good one, Sarah!] But thank you, Florida, for allowing candidates in a contested primary to duke it out over ideas and principles and values, all with the same goal, and that is unseating those who have such a disconnect from the people of America. That’s what the goal is here in this race against Alan Grayson. Please fight hard, and do this for the rest of the country. Fight hard, and send a conservative to Washington, DC.”

Palin, the former half-term Governor, current-nothing and future-even-less, charmed the all-Republican audience with her folksy folksiness and her homespun homespunnery. Atypically, Palin was wearing clothes that she had paid for herself. At the end of the event, she shared her recipe for mooseface pie.

In response to Palin’s attack on Rep Grayson, Grayson actually complimented Palin. Grayson praised Palin for having a hand large enough to fit Grayson’s entire name on it. He thanked Palin for alleviating the growing shortage of platitudes in Central Florida.

Grayson added that Palin deserved credit for getting through the entire hour-long program without quitting. Grayson also said that Palin really had mastered Palin’s imitation of Tina Fey imitating Palin. Grayson observed that Palin is the most-intelligent leader that the Republican Party has produced since George W. Bush.

When asked to comment about what effect Palin’s criticism might have, Grayson pointed out, “As the Knave’s horse says in Alice in Wonderland, ‘dogs will believe anything.'” Earlier, as the Orlando Sentinel reported, Grayson said, “I’m sure Palin knows all about politics in Central Florida, since from her porch she can see Winter Park,” which is part of Grayson’s district.

Grayson said that the Alaskan chillbilly was welcome to return to Central Florida anytime, as long as she brings lots of money with her, and spends it. “I look forward to an honest debate with Governor Palin on the issues, in the unlikely event that she ever learns anything about them,” Grayson added, alluding to Politifact’s “liar, liar, pants on fire” evaluation of much of what Palin has said.
Scientists are studying Sarah Palin’s travel between Alaska and Florida carefully. They hope to learn more about the flight patterns of that elusive migratory species, the wild Alaskan dingbat.)

Now some of the conservative blogs are whining that it is unfair of him to use his ability with the English ? language against a lady ? 🙂
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March 18, 2010 4:26pm
Hurf Durf

Don’t worry, sillydumbtwat, your Commie cuzzie and his Paylun obsession will stop her. Anyway, is that the same Alan Grayson who demonises independent military contractors then uses an independent military contractor to get out of Nigeria during a coup? A man of principle is Grayson.

I would appreciate where you copypasted that from and gave the proper credit too. Your drug addled brain isn’t capable of constructing anything that colourful.

a/one bomb on an unpopulated part of japan…

would have achieved the same result..

[Citation needed]
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March 18, 2010 7:20pm
philu

nah..!..all my own (drug-addled) work..

eh..?

you like it mister..?

i have much more where that came from..

would you like to join my fanclub..?

you could be my fan-boy..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 8:52pm
Hurf Durf

Keep me out of your sick dreams, phillip.
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March 18, 2010 9:22pm
philu

oh no..!..fanboys have to keep their distance..

you can worship from afar..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 9:35pm
Hurf Durf

I’ll score you some methadrone if you want, phillip, you won’t have to spam this place with your blog for another week then.
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March 18, 2010 9:43pm
rouppe

Anyone else think this is a huge betrayal of trust from the Port Nicolson iwi?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/3468049/Maori-trust-in-gun-over-hunting-ban

Access was supposed to be maintained unless serious egological damage was likely. The Trust board and DoC came up with completely different reasons, and finally on TV tonight Trust secretary Aroha Thorpe said “well its in our control now” as she leaned forward and sneered into the camera.

I would bet my house on the fact that during duck shooting season, you will hear gunfire from that area, and access to the ‘public’ will have been determined on racial grounds.
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March 18, 2010 9:48pm
philu

no thanks hurf..

‘done is foul nazi muck..

(and more addictive than heroin..)

and a horrible ‘dead’ stone..

i wouldn’t give it to a junkie..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 18, 2010 9:49pm
LeftRightOut

Fucking hell grumpy, that’s brilliant. Where’s redbirther when you need a flailing right winger?
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March 18, 2010 10:45pm
jackp

Rouppe, I saw that as well. The sneer was pretty strong. John Key looked a little dumbfounded. Hopefully this is a wake up call for National because if they continue the way their going, there are going to be big problems, e.g UN’s declaration of indigenious people, foreshore and seabed… the list goes on.
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March 18, 2010 11:56pm

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