General Debate 8 May 2010

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Sonny Blount

Rex: “unable to” vs “unwilling to” are two different questions.

Think about for example, all the pensioners [i.e. our parents] who’ve worked and paid taxes all their lives and are in their last years and have lost their earning power and use up most of the health budget. Should they lose their vote?

What about pensioners who’ve never worked, like phil, when he reaches that age?

It’s something to be worked through.

Do you agree with the general principle?

I’m not set on this net taxation idea (perhaps net taxation over your lifetime), but what mechanism or principle do we have that constrains the possible problems of the tyranny of the majority and how has the problem been dealt with elsewhere successfully?
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May 8, 2010 5:10pm
Steve

Chthoniid, thanks.
Now do you have the power to shut that fucking idiot up? or is today the day he self destructs?
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May 8, 2010 5:15pm
reid

“do you really think i am going to entertain the medieval/feudal fantasies of that hong kong lawyer who likes to boast about how little she pays her cleaners..etc..?”

Well after your reported experience with her at the Blogger drinks in Ponsonby phil, no I didn’t expect you’d be paying a whole hell of a lot of attention to her.

But she’s not asking you that question.

I’m not baiting you, seriously. It’s just I really do think it’s a relevant, fair, just proposition. It won’t ever get anywhere politically, I’m not naive enough to think it would. But I’m an ethical man, and I can’t see any flaw in it that could not be justly resolved.

You say you’ve got a degree in pol studies and we all know your ideology and your lifestyle because you’ve told us and based on that, you’d be one of those most affected.

So I would have thought that on this blog in particular, you’d be interested in outlining the issues, as you see them?
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May 8, 2010 5:16pm
Steve

“do you really think i am going to entertain the medieval/feudal fantasies of that hong kong lawyer who likes to boast about how little she pays her cleaners..etc..?”
You would never understand her post Phool.
I do hope Kate tears the bloodsucking parasite to bits
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May 8, 2010 5:21pm
Sonny Blount

how do we set about differentiating those on benefits who are willing but unable to “give their all to the betterment of socirty” and those who are bludgers?

You can only measure results, not intentions.

We can’t and shouldn’t differentiate. The best we can do is provide fair opportunity and fair care for all, the rest is up to the laws of nature.

Bad luck and outcomes will always be there and governments and intellectualism will never be able to ‘fix’ the human condition.
Fear (of lifes outcomes) is never going to go away.
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May 8, 2010 5:21pm
Chthoniid

Steve- I have the ability, but not the authority 🙂
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May 8, 2010 5:25pm
philu

what do you think about the chatter around the recent discovery of neandarthal-mating..by some early humanoids..

..as being the explanation for the likes of yrslf..?.and yr primitive political ideas..?

‘..I’m not baiting you, seriously. It’s just I really do think it’s a relevant, fair, just proposition..’

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 5:30pm
reid

“‘..I’m not baiting you, seriously. It’s just I really do think it’s a relevant, fair, just proposition..’”

So that’s the contribution of a pol studies master who is against this proposition – to throw my own words back at me?

And contribute nothing more?

Despite that I’ve said that IMO it’s a seriously good idea and that you’d be one who’d be most disadvantaged and would be most upset out of everyone, were you to lose your voting right, so you’d therefore be a great person to pick holes in it?

I see.

Thanks.
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May 8, 2010 5:36pm
Dazzaman

I think that the 80s & early 90s were the last decades of good music because those artists had real talents. Today, is all bullshit.

Fala, I’d agree even though I lost any rabid interest in music once I started my family, it’s an age thingy I guess.

The oldies like the Stones, etc. sound really good lately…getting nostalgic in my middle age…lol.
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May 8, 2010 5:40pm
reid

“I have the ability, but not the authority”

It’s “authoriti,” Clint.
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May 8, 2010 5:47pm
Rex Widerstrom

reid:

No I don’t agree with the general principle, for this reason. The universal acceptance of inalienable human and civil rights is the best bulwark we have against the ongoing encroachment of an all-powerful state.

Disenfranchise one group of people, no matter how justified you consider the rationale to be, and you open the door to disenfranchising others. Many people legitimately run businesses as a tax loss, or invest in negatively geared property. I think the latter is highly damaging to the economy, as it happens, but I don’t for one moment suggest we disenfranchise them and nor, I would hope, would you.

If you have a problem with bludgers on the dole – as do I, because they allow everyone in need of assistance to be characterised as such no matter how valid their cliem – then by all means let’s address that with work tests, retraining, and penalties for not accepting work that’s offered.

But let’s never open the door to governments taking away the right to vote of sections of the population, for in that direction lies the potential for tyranny.
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May 8, 2010 5:47pm
philu

reid..where does it say i am compelled to entertain/debate ridiculous/greed-driven notions..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 5:56pm
reid

“let’s never open the door to governments taking away the right to vote of sections of the population, for in that direction lies the potential for tyranny”

Rex, universal franchise democracy can produce tyrants, under the right conditions, as we saw in Germany.

I have always been struck by how few people these days understand the true role of the crown in a democratic monarchy, which is that the reason the power to constitute and dissolve Parliament is vested in the Crown, is to protect the people from an abusive govt.

I’m not advocating a new constitutional framework but I am advocating a new electoral system.

The checks and balances required to prevent tyranny can be vested in either or both of those.
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May 8, 2010 5:59pm
philu

but..y’know..!..that neanderthal thing..?

whaddayareckon..?

.. the likes of rick giles..aka..’pentwig’..eh…?..are ‘explained”..by this neanderthal-connection/factor..eh..?

not to mention all the other mouth-breathers around these parts….

i also think the neanderthal-reason helps explain why righties have no sense-of-humor gene..

(c.f..the ‘punchlines’..of giles/pentwig..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 6:00pm
transmogrifier

In order to balance out the almost unrelenting negativity that is your typical GD thread around here, I present:

TOP TEN MOVIES OF ALL TIME
1. The Wild Bunch
2. Apocalypse Now
3. Short Cuts
4. La Haine
5. Do the Right Thing
6. Husbands and Wives
7. Les Miserables (1995)
8. The Last of the Mohicans
9. Boogie Nights
10. The Life of Brian

TOP TEN MUSICAL ARTISTS ACCORDING TO MY LASTFM ACCOUNT
1. Sonic Youth
2. The Fiery Furnaces
3. PJ Harvey
4. Radiohead
5. Sleater-Kinney
6. Deerhoof
7. The Delgados
8. Electrelane
9. REM
10. LCD Soundsystem

TOP TEN TV SERIES OF ALL TIME
1. The Wire
2. The Office (UK)
3. Monty Python’s Flying Circus
4. The Simpsons
5. Arrested Development
6. Freaks and Geeks
7. Father Ted
8. The Larry Sanders Show
9. The Young Ones
10. Blackadder

In other words, cheer up you miserable bastards.
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May 8, 2010 6:01pm
reid

“reid..where does it say i am compelled to entertain/debate ridiculous/greed-driven notions..?”

phil of course there’s no compunction I’m just saying it’s a topic for debate and I thought you’d have some interesting things to say based on your background and knowledge.

Who cares who made the suggestion?

FWIW, I have advocated for some time that people like myself who have been a net contributor all their lives having no children nor health issues, should have priority places in things like health queues, when things go south, for me. And why not? I’ve paid in my lifetime for your kid and many others to be educated. I’ve paid for people I don’t know to have surgery, I’ve paid for you to have a roof over your head. Why shouldn’t I get priority at a hospital if you and I rock up at the same time?

I’ve advocated that for years. Cactus just takes it a logical step further, and I like that step.

I suggest it’s reasonable to not give a fuck about who said it, simply debate the proposition on its merits. Us not being children and this being a political blog, and all.
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May 8, 2010 6:04pm
philu

gee..!..what a surprise you should feel you should get a priority above all others..eh..?

mind you..that does go with the class-riddled personal-greed that is yr main political driver…eh..?

..so of course the -children-of-the-poor should have less rights than you..eh..?

..should we get them to doff their caps to you..?

i mean..are you pulling our tits here…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 6:11pm
Hurf Durf

Another GD ruined by the once-abused BillyBonkers and the blagged Phillip.

Newsweak is about to get kicked into the media graveyard alongside Sunrise. It’s a great day for media democracy.
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May 8, 2010 6:21pm
nickb

I like Cactus’ idea of long term beneficiaries not being able to vote.

Then at the next election the likes of Wed Wussel, Mad Cath and Pol Pot Locke would be turfed out of the house for ever
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May 8, 2010 6:31pm
Rex Widerstrom

reid:

I’m not advocating a new constitutional framework but I am advocating a new electoral system.

The checks and balances required to prevent tyranny can be vested in either or both of those.

Could be, yes. But do you really think that vested interests, if given the chance, would not seek to corrupt our electoral system more than they have already?!

And who’d choose this system, and implement it? The same people who thought MMP was to be the dawn of a new era of accountable politics in NZ?

What I’m saying, I guess, is that if they’d shut up and let you, me and a handful of others draft this new system it might just work 😉 But since it’d likely be created by a process about as democratic as that which brought us the EFA (that other great saviour of democracy) I’ll stick with universal suffrage.
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May 8, 2010 6:33pm
reid

“class-riddled personal-greed that is yr main political driver”

[this is not what I really think]Well phil, I must say the first thing I do when I walk out the door in the morning is to look for a street urchin to tread on as I wander happily to my gentleman’s club where I imbibe cigars and port as I stand at the window looking down on the lower-class “useless eaters” (as we call them). It’s quite fun sometimes to use them for target practice as we give them a few minutes head start – the poorer they are the slower they are and we just laugh and laugh as we shoot those human beings by the thousands. We also take video tape that we watch later and relive the whole experience.[/this is not what I really think]

See phil, the above is about as realistic as your summary of my “main political drivers”
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May 8, 2010 6:36pm
nickb

What does everyone think will happen in the Bill Wilson saga?
Am I correct in hearing today that he is having some meeting with Sian Elias early this week?

His position is completely untenable, he needs to resign and avoid bringing the Supreme Court into disrepute.
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May 8, 2010 6:38pm
reid

Rex of course my advocacy is predicated on you and I both attaining high positions which allow vast graft.

Sorry if I didn’t make that clear before.

Hopefully no-one will ever know.

Tee hee.
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May 8, 2010 6:39pm
philu

“..See phil, the above is about as realistic as your summary of my “main political drivers”..”

dunno about that…..if you could…you would…eh..?

..a coupla generations ago you’d have been up for hunting some ‘abos’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 6:46pm
Jaime Raine

# reid (3980) Says:
May 8th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

So, let me get this straight. A judge in the highest court in the land, fails to rescue himself in a situation where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to whether he should have.

And he gets offered the opportunity to resign, at full pension? Judicial pensions used to be at least six figures, tax free. One assumes they’re the same now.

A clear application of equal treatment under the law. Everyone else in future who finds themselves in the same situation will obviously be extended the same courtesy and I look forward to reading about the next application of such “justice.”

By staying on he is earning a six figure salary beginning with a larger figure than the six figure salary on his pension. Why the fuck wouldn’t he? We’re capitalists here for fucks sake, cut the noble holier than thou bullshit.
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May 8, 2010 6:49pm
philu

see reid…heed the words of james raine..(are you getting the band back together..?..there..raine..?)

there is no moral high ground…on yr side of the fence…

just untramelled personal greed/self-interest….

occaisonally dressed up in ‘principled’ clothes…eh..?

but you fool no-one…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 6:57pm
pentwig

Reid
I am sure the “pols studies master” is a figment of the phools drug ruined brain.
Not even intelligent enough to answer your simple proposition with a thought or two.
All the political analysis I have seen the phool opine on has turned out to be the complete opposite.
Sad really.
But it is fun making them lefties bludgers look even more stupid!!
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May 8, 2010 7:00pm
Jaime Raine

For someone who likes to use sarcasm, you’re pretty bad at detecting it Phil. My guess is that his pride prevents him from wanting to look like he’s admitting guilt by resigning so that’s why he’s staying on.

Personal greed/self-interest occasionally dressed up in principle… Sounds extremely Left-wing to me.
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May 8, 2010 7:02pm
philu

rick giles/pentwig..!..c’mon..!

slay us with one of yr arguments that need not be argued against…eh..?

pleeaase…!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:05pm
philu

oh..yeah..!..haha..!..yo ‘didn’t really mean it’…eh…?

o-kayyy…!!!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:07pm
Chthoniid

@reid

“I have the ability, but not the authority”

It’s “authoriti,” Clint.

lol, tempting as it is, it’s not my blog.

Also…you really don’t have to feed the troll.
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May 8, 2010 7:12pm
Jaime Raine

I was taking the piss out of the fact that reid was trying to do some financial analysis and being all capitalist about it, saying why doesn’t he do the sensible thing and resign and get a pension hurr durr as if he had seen something that was not obvious to anyone else.

Have you met the Judge before philu? Do you know his political leanings? Lest you shoot yourself in the foot regarding the one being greedy being on your side of the fence.

By the way, in response to your earlier question, not enough vegan musicians here in Auckland to form one.
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May 8, 2010 7:12pm
philu

“..not enough vegan musicians..”

here you are..

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/veggies/musicians.html

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:16pm
reid

“But it is fun making them lefties bludgers look even more stupid”

It’s more like tragic, pentwig.

They can’t even marshall the most simplistic argument, let alone one that persuades.

All they seem to be about is ad homina and dishonest propaganda.

I mean, for example, Jaime Raine says:

So, let me get this straight. A judge in the highest court in the land, fails to rescue himself in a situation where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to whether he should have.

Whereas, if you scroll up to my 12:44, what I actually said was:

So, let me get this straight. A judge in the highest court in the land, fails to recuse himself in a situation where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to whether he should have.

Er, Jaime. IF YOU EVER DELIBERATELY WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT MISQUOTE ME SUCH THAT IT CHANGES COMPLETELY THE INTENT OF MY WORDS, I’LL RIP OFF YOUR HEAD AND POOP DOWN YOUR THROAT.

Clint/DPF, I understand this may cause some Saturday night moderation/demerit issues. My apologies.

P.S. Jaime, what sort of poofy name is “Jaime?”
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May 8, 2010 7:20pm
pentwig

Sadly for you phool, you have it completely wrong again. I am not Giles.

Back to the bong for you.
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May 8, 2010 7:20pm
Rex Widerstrom

Better yet, form a vegetable orchestra!

(That’s the instruments, not the performers BTW) 👿
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May 8, 2010 7:22pm
reid

“Also…you really don’t have to feed the troll.”

Clint, I don’t know why, honestly, but I have up till tonight, since phil first started commenting many years ago, and I was here before him, thought that he had something to offer.

Regrettably after tonight’s lack of contribution, I’m coming to the same conclusion many of you have already made.

Phil, either address that issue seriously with masters-level analysis, or sayonara, buddy.

Doesn’t have to be tonight, but sometime
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May 8, 2010 7:28pm
pentwig

Reid

Twisting your words when they have no other answer is a tactic used on Frogblog and the stranded.

The phool and LROff think they can use that same tactic on KB.

It just proves their inferior intellect (your most appropiate word) tragically.
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May 8, 2010 7:33pm
philu

“..It just proves their inferior intellect (your most appropiate word) tragically..”

pentwig performs slow strangulation on the english language…yet again…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:38pm
Steve

Feed the Troll? trouble is keeping track.
Whore is a jack in a box, digresses to see who follows.
One line comments, I make
Phool is the idiot here, just like Spud on Red Blurt, and Minister for Mars on Frogblog, and that girl Lyn on The Stranded.
How many idiots on Whore.co.nz? fucking one that’s all. The Americans are still interested in his News Service. CNN yeah
WINZ have some questions Phool, and so do the real taxpayers.
Mother’s Day tomorrow, a lot of tax will be gathered via GST to support lazy creeps like you Phillip.
You just don’t give back, you are a fucking leech
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May 8, 2010 7:41pm
Jaime Raine

# reid (3982) Says:
May 8th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
I mean, for example, Jaime Raine says:

So, let me get this straight. A judge in the highest court in the land, fails to rescue himself in a situation where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to whether he should have.

Whereas, if you scroll up to my 12:44, what I actually said was:

So, let me get this straight. A judge in the highest court in the land, fails to recuse himself in a situation where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to whether he should have.

Er, Jaime. IF YOU EVER DELIBERATELY WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT MISQUOTE ME SUCH THAT IT CHANGES COMPLETELY THE INTENT OF MY WORDS, I’LL RIP OFF YOUR HEAD AND POOP DOWN YOUR THROAT.

Clint/DPF, I understand this may cause some Saturday night moderation/demerit issues. My apologies.

P.S. Jaime, what sort of poofy name is “Jaime?”

Might need to see a psychologist for your anger issues don’t you think? Actually my web browser Firefox’s spellchecker picked that up – why the fuck would I care about the difference between recuse and rescue – think you might need some demerits yourself for your dad4justice-like psychotic behaviour maybe? And how very mature of you to attack someone on the basis of their name, ‘reid’.

Phil – you’ll note I said IN AUCKLAND. I was presuming you were asking about the advert I placed on veganzchat a few months back. I hardly think the members of Def Leppard would have the time to start up a band with me.
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May 8, 2010 7:41pm
philu

“..your simple proposition ..”

indeed..!..

(‘masters-level’ enough for you..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:44pm
Steve

btw Phool, what are you doing for your Mother tomorrow? or your Child’s Mother?
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May 8, 2010 7:48pm
philu

no..i didn’t see/remember yr ad..

i was doing a (bad) australian crawl pun…

what was their big hit..?..’boys bar up!;..?

d’ya want me to ask around for some vegan musos for you..?

what ‘style’ of music..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:49pm
philu

um..!..taking good care of their grandchild/child..?

how about you..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 7:51pm
expat

http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/neologism-competition/#comment-19970

this is fun!
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May 8, 2010 7:54pm
pentwig

Steve

Now that you mention it, I do remember the phool stating on KB about 12 – 18 months ago he was about merge his aggrieved news service with the yanks. For $M’s so he said.
Perhaps they found out he was his only customer.

Maybe his brain was addled with extra strong THC or something.
Maybe it was the vegan dogs talking to him.
Who knows? Certainly the phool doesn’t.
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May 8, 2010 7:55pm
reid

Actually my web browser Firefox’s spellchecker picked that up – why the fuck would I care about the difference between recuse and rescue

OK Jaime, on that basis I won’t rip your head off and poop down your throat.

Just try to teach your spell-checker the profound diff betw “recuse” and “rescue,” mmm’k?

P.S. I’m comfortable with my anger issues. It’s usually the other folks who have the problem.
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May 8, 2010 7:56pm
Rex Widerstrom

pentwig:

his aggrieved news service

Okay, I’ve got to give points for that one. That’s not just a remarkably good pun, it’s also a perfect encapsulation of the content 😀
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May 8, 2010 8:04pm
philu

“..It’s usually the other folks who have the problem…”

your ‘inferiors’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 8:05pm
pentwig

Sorry phool

The fun of taking the mickey out of you is over.
National Geographics calls.
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May 8, 2010 8:14pm
Steve

Oh noooo
pentwig .. National Geographic. Survival. The meat eaters.
No no no I don’t even heat my veges on the BBQ
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May 8, 2010 8:53pm
Steve

that phool is past his use by date
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May 8, 2010 8:55pm
jcuknz

You true Blue righties might like to visit a leftie site .. Kiwipolitico … becuase there is a fun photo of the three leaders. Seems according the the caption writer that Brown the Libby still have self control but the rightie has lost it.

Sounds to me to be a fore teller of the election result with Labour willing to introduce MMP instead of the goddam FPP will get him support from the Libs.
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May 8, 2010 9:07pm
Viking2

CK actually wrote thus:
It is deeper than MMP or not MMP. We are now talking about for example everyone having one vote, but some people who contribute to the tax system as a net taxpayer having two votes.

Similar happens in Singapore or Hong Kong. Business runs Hong Kong because functional constituencies get the vote. It comprises 60 members, with 30 elected directly by geographical constituencies and 30 elected by functional, occupation-based constituencies. Why can’t companies effectively vote? They pay more tax than individuals do. Why can’t New Zealand professions and business get a vote?

At law in New Zealand a corporate is in most situations deemed to be a “person”. Lets extend that definition of a person to voting in a democracy.

No taxation without representation? Where do large taxpaying businesses get a vote on current voting papers? The Unions get a vote and they get guaranteed bums on seats in Parliament. You only have to look at the candidates on a Labour Party ticket. Have a look at the National Party ticket, how many big business people are on that ticket? Not many. If any.

Now she has not advocated removing any group from voting but has advocated a right to vote to those that pay tax as a corporation etc. Like the rates issue where the voters are those living in an area rather than those paying for the local body services it just makes good sense and seems inherently fair to me.
In the case of rates either allow the landlord to require the tenant to pay the rates to establish their (the Tenants),voting rights or allow the landlord to have a extra vote based on the property right they own. Its much more preferable that tenants are required to share the rates burden as it then affects all those that use the services provided. We may just have a chance of making local bodies more responsible if the non payers start to pay for their wants and dreams.
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May 8, 2010 9:16pm
philu

why don’t you form a political party..?

y’know..!

split the act-vote..?

..0.8% each…?

that’d be fair..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 9:36pm
philu

“..his aggrieved news service..”

that is actually quite clever/funny…!

that proves it..!

pentwig can’t be rick giles…!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 9:37pm
philu

you could call it ‘the fuck the poor party’…?

and.. if you wanted to run on your issue..(as a campaign slogan..?..)

‘first class medicine only for first class people!’..

..d’ya like that..?..a little visceral thrill..?..at the very thought..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 9:44pm
Jack5

New topic for a mo if there’s anyone not put asleep by the droning of Philu…

Is there no limit to the gullibility of TVNZ? On the news tonight, looking at an old Krupp cannon in Wanganui, they attacked the Boer War as a fight between British capitalists and the Afrikaaners.

Now the bleeding hearts have twisted their position tortuously to side with both the liberals AND the Jaapies.

It was the British Empire v. the Boers, who were strongly supported by Germany, as the presence of the Krupp cannon proved. In the glorious Jaapie republic, English speakers, all Blacks, all Jews were denied the vote. The Jaapies weren’t the good guys.

Even the neo-Marxists in TVNZ ought to be able to get their heads around the fact that you can’t support both the South African blacks AND the Jaapies, whose legacy was apartheid.

Come to think of it, it’s surprising that TVNZ and Creative NZ and the other bleeding heart groups that haemorrage tax money haven’t funded a Jaapie programme ont he lines of Pasifika, Maori TV etc etc.

They are wily fuckers, the Jaapies. Look at how their ref’s are starting to erode Kiwi footballers’ self-confidence ahead of the World Cup.
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May 8, 2010 10:04pm
Dirty Rat

saw the Crusaders game.

Was a good descision to ignore the knock-on by the mighty silver and red team.

Fuck, isnt Ritchie McCaw a winging, whiney, moaning piece of shit ?
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May 8, 2010 10:21pm
philu

aren’t you on the wrong site…?

shouldn’t you be at ‘rugger-buggers r us’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 10:23pm
Jack5

Dirty Rat (10.21)…

What are you talking about Dirty Rat?

Get your head out of your Horridcanes arse, or is it a Hooerlanders one, or even a Jaapie one?

Jeez, we’ve got a topic to drive off Philu. Rugby is the new Philu spray!
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May 8, 2010 10:27pm
Dirty Rat

Jack5, what the fuck are you on about ?

The ref played advantage due to the knock-on and the saffas took that advantage, and deservedly they won.

I reitterate, the pissing and moaning by the North Otago Crusaders captain was embarrassing for all New Zealanders in sport
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May 8, 2010 10:36pm
Cactus Kate

Rex

I am not allowed to vote in the place I pay income taxes in also. Yet they have the good manners to take so little of my income I could not care less. Your slight in Australia for your economic contribution to it without the right to vote, tells me you completely understand what I am advocating.

As for the apparent slight on democracy. Tell me, all those years when democracy evolved, was it ever visioned that welfare would spread to those who are not genuinely in need, and into the middle classes? To now make net taxpayers a minority in the countries that they live?

Democracy has evolved over the years, New Zealanders now for example have 2 votes – one for a list and one for an electorate. Democracy needs to again. If you do not contribute to the pie you shouldn’t have a say in voting on how that pie is distributed.

The best example on this comments thread is Phil U. How many comments people can hand on their heart say that it doesn’t send a shiver up their spine and a sick feeling in their stomach that for the 10’s or 100’s of thousands of dollars of tax they pay a year – their vote is equal to a man who chooses not to work and actively taunts those on this thread that are paying for him not to?
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May 8, 2010 10:45pm
reid

What’s the corporate angle Cactus?

Where does a faceless entity that pays lots of tax $$ lie, in this?

What about partnerships, sole-owner-operator companies, trusts, hedge funds that invest in NZ?
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May 8, 2010 10:48pm
Dirty Rat

cactus

you dont pay taxes here neither

so fuck off

lol
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May 8, 2010 10:51pm
philu

do you want some deference there..cactus..?

..some forelock tugging by the poor..?

fucken dream on..!..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 10:57pm
Grizz

Philu, Cactus does say a lot. However I can find some common ground with her. It sends shivers up my spine that my taxes go into supporting a fuck-about like you. It is about time you just STFU and get yourself a job!
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May 8, 2010 11:04pm
reid

What’s the matter, DR and phil?

Being ripped from the teat?

eh…?
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May 8, 2010 11:04pm
philu

grizz..who the fuck are you..?

121commwents..?

never seen/heard/noticed you b4..

there4….why should i give a flying fuck what does or does not send shivers up yr spine…?

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 8, 2010 11:10pm
Guy Fawkes

The phool that lurks on these pages has a clever dick answer for everything.

Mr Ure, you just get right up so many folks nose. Not just because you are a Gobby prat, but mainly because you are a waste of space.

No one has any regard for you, most just suffer your drivel for amusement value, and to help us feel even better when we are having a bad day.

You are an object of derision, albeit an object with a warped wit.
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May 9, 2010 12:02am
Grizz

“121 commwents”

Hey Phil Ure,

Some of us have jobs. There are people who have to get up in the morning, go out and earn the tax money that goes towards supporting lazy fuckwits like you who seem to think they are entitled to feel that work and personal responsibility is an optional extra.

I am sorry that you have not seen or heard much from me. I think 40 of my previous entries on this site have in some way told you to get off your lazy arse get to work. Nevertheless, my only 120 posts does reflect that I have spent much of my time working and dealing to my other responsibilities while irresponsible losers like yourself have all the time in the world to scribe pointless arguments and argue within yourself as to the number of full stops you will include in each line.
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May 9, 2010 1:54am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Gordon Brown is gone burgers. Oh what fun.
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May 9, 2010 4:49am
Akaroa

Re-Phil U at 11.10pm on the 8th

You sneered – in finest Philu tradition – at Grizz for the modest contribution he/she has made to these pages. Your language was – as it so often is – an offensive ad hominem mini-tirade

My dear Phil, there are many readers of these blogs who do not choose to comment as often, as volubly or – if I may say so – as ridiculously as you. Each blog of yours confirms – if confirmation were ever needed – that empty vessels make the most noise, and your often puerile, misguided and regularly offensive contributions say all that one needs to know about their author.

However, we are led to believe that we live in a free country, so I imagine that you have the right to go on reinforcing the sad image of yourself that you regularly project onto these pages.

That aside, do have a nice day, won’t you!
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May 9, 2010 8:50am
philu

heh…!

phil(whoar.co.nz()
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May 9, 2010 9:04am
Rex Widerstrom

Cactus Kate:

all those years when democracy evolved, was it ever visioned that welfare would spread to those who are not genuinely in need, and into the middle classes?

Then is not the economically rational course to end WFF (I find the trend toward middle class welfare, epitomised by Kevin Rudd’s grovelling to “working families” while soaking working singles, businesses and every other productive unit, appalling)? To institute a mix of well-funded compulsory training / retraining coupled to rigorous fitness-for-work tests? To cease the benefit of anyone assessed as having refused work of which they are capable?

While some of those recipients are active bludgers others – notably the middle class recipients of politicians’ bribes – get their “benefits” whether or not they ask for them. Should they lose the right to vote for a situation over which they have no control?

Let’s end the bludging, not the voting. Then anyone we can be confident anyone in receipt of a benefit is deserving – both of our money and of their vote.
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May 9, 2010 2:57pm

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