General Debate 19 June 2010

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment150

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (150)

Login to comment or vote

reid

“Makes one think as history repeats, but do we understand it?”

Well some of us do, simpleton. That’s an unfortunate name you’ve selected for yourself.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 3:58pm
Kris K

reid 3:24 pm,

Your tactic of naming and shaming basically paints the entire Islamic world as a bunch of terrorists. That doesn’t seem to me to be a very wise or justifiable allegation for major western govts to seriously proclaim as official policy.

In response let me ask you a question; How many Muslims do you think desire the removal of ALL Jews from the nation of Israel – essentially the destruction of Israel as a nation?
My personal view is that most/all Muslims believe the nation of Israel is an affront to Islam and Allah, and must be removed.
So, on that basis, is it much of a leap to recognise that the majority of Muslims ALSO want a global Islamic Caliphate established under Sharia law, and that this would involve the subjugation of all non-Muslims by definition?
Conquest by any other name?

Your analysis of the issue being inherent in the Koran makes me ask, what about history. Has Islam always had groups that had these beliefs or is your observation that an OBL-like interpretation is a relatively recent phenomena? The oldest one I know of is the Muslim Brotherhood and that’s been around since the early 1950’s I think. So I go for recent phenomena, myself.

I think one needs go no further than the prophet and founder of Islam, Mohammed. So of the order of 1300+ years by my reckoning. Once Islam becomes a significant minority it starts to reveal its true intent, just as good old Mohammed did at its inception.

And of those people who care enough about Jihad to sacrifice their own lives in its pursuit, how many are there as a ratio of the entire Islamic population? I think I’ve asked you that before but you never answered. Just a % figure would be good.

There is a ‘vocal’ minority who activiely promote Islam through jihad, etc., and there is the so called ‘silent’ majority; so called ‘moderates’, who are complicit by their silence. You may cite a few websites which have the odd individual telling the West what we want to hear, but where are the mass Muslim demonstrations condemning the latest Islamic atrocity!? Non-existant.

Islam is founded upon deception and lies, so why would anyone believe what the odd Muslim may vocalise when there are no actions to back up their claims? “Faith without works is dead”, as they say.
As I mentioned to you the other day, Arafat would tell his Western audience one thing regarding him wanting peace with Israel, while with his next breath would say the exact opposite to his Arab/Muslim audience. Guess who he was telling the truth to?
It’s called “speaking out of both sides of your mouth”, and Arabs/Muslims have made this an artform.

That’s where I stand, Reid, and little evidence along the lines of “some Muslim said” is going to convince me otherwise, especially when Islamic terrorism continues to escalate.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 3:59pm
reid

“vile bigots..!all of them..”

Yes they are phil but what makes you think they represent Christian values? You’re starting to sound like Kris.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:02pm
Kris K

What time do the libraries shut on a Saturday?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:03pm
RKBee

Where have all the old memorial halls gone…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:05pm
nickb

Not1, since when are you the official kiwiblog hall monitor?
If you don’t believe him, enrol in an LLB or BA at a NZ university, it will open your eyes.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:10pm
reid

In response let me ask you a question; How many Muslims do you think desire the removal of ALL Jews from the nation of Israel – essentially the destruction of Israel as a nation?

100%

I mean, if you were a ME or SE-Asian Muslim, why WOULD you want Israel in the region?

The trouble is, Israel hasn’t done much of a marketing campaign for itself, over the last 60 years

The real threat to Israel’s existential being is zero, while she has nukes.

Therefore, she can relax, keep her guard up, and stop the harassment and aggression, which is why even in 2010, 100% of “Muslims believe the nation of Israel is an affront to Islam and Allah, and must be removed.”

So, on that basis, is it much of a leap to recognise that the majority of Muslims ALSO want a global Islamic Caliphate established under Sharia law, and that this would involve the subjugation of all non-Muslims by definition?
Conquest by any other name?

Actually Kris it’s a huge leap and it’s so mind-bogglingly out of reality I’m not sure where to begin. As I’ve repeatedly explained, Muslims are Human-beings. This is not disputable. Not all Muslims want to devote their whole lives to a religious cause. I know you’re surprised, but it’s true.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:10pm
simpleton

Reid ,<blockquote “Makes one think as history repeats, but do we understand it?”

Well some of us do, simpleton. That’s an unfortunate name you’ve selected for yourself.

Well I do not claim I understand all, so always looking to live and learn, and to seek the truth.

In a sense history repeats from 1796 as when the USA paid tribute to Tripoli and now pays so many $ Billions in grants and aid to Egypt and Israel annually to maintain a peace and has supplied $ Billions to both in military equipment.
Buying Peace does make me wonder, and supplying military aid to both, about the intention of both parties.
Of course it is possible to believe that in buying time, may be good-will may be fostered as both parties can see the sense of peace and not war.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:35pm
Kris K

reid 4:10 pm,

Actually Kris it’s a huge leap and it’s so mind-bogglingly out of reality I’m not sure where to begin. As I’ve repeatedly explained, Muslims are Human-beings. This is not disputable. Not all Muslims want to devote their whole lives to a religious cause. I know you’re surprised, but it’s true.

Shouldn’t you qualify that with, “Apart from where Israel (and perhaps the Jews) is concerned”?

What you may think is a huge disconnect, Reid, I actually think is a pretty good justification for the non-Muslim world, and especially the West, to be genuinely concerned.

Remember the Muslim saying, “Kill the Jews on Saturday, kill the Christians on Sunday”?
Once Islam has dealt with the ‘Jewish problem’, then Christians (the West) are next on the agenda, and any others will subsequently be brought into line after that. That’s the progression, Reid; it’s that stated aims of Islam, and is not much of a “huge leap” at all, at least not in my mind.

It’s really just a matter of differentiating between Muslim lies and Muslim truth. After you discount all the lies, the truth is apparent, and luckily for those with their eyes open Islam has clearly stated its true aims and objectives. It’s really just a matter of how seriously you take those stated aims. I happen to take then very seriously.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:36pm
reid

My strategy for the west dealing with it is to seriously engage with both Turkey and Iran.

Turkey is the border between Christianity and Islam so it becomes like Germany was during the Cold War.

Iran, (like it or not, it’s a fact), is almost universally the most respected faith-filled Islamic nation. Iran is a Muslim’s Muslim.

There’s a lot of news that has all the traits of a long-run universal media campaign designed to convince people that the first thing Iran wants to do is nuke Israel. Maybe it’s true, and maybe it’s not. The old nothing-is-so-vigorously-defended-than-a vested-interest-disguised-as-an-intellectual-conviction dynamic once again arises, the vested interest of course being Israel’s strong desire to get the US help it deal to its second worst regional contender, since it just recently helped it take out the first. Not that it would do that.

I think countries engaging seriously with Iran will universally be pleasantly surprised.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:39pm
Mike

It is not as huge leap at all Reid.
Many of the top judicial and political leaders throughout the Muslim world call for a Caliphate.
The stats read 30-50 odd % and more depending on region and age range.

I think you are being either naive or stupid to ignore such a calling out knowing that you are an educated and intelligent person and are fully aware of the concepts & History of Jihad and Dhimmitude and Taqiyya — Religious Deception.

Kris is correct even if it doesn’t meet your needs for being tolerant and servile.

I too ask where were the other protests.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/where-are-the-protests/story-e6frg6zo-1225881073566
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:40pm
philu

“..what makes you think they represent Christian values? ”

they don’t…

they are a total aberration…

an antithesis…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:42pm
reid

Shouldn’t you qualify that with, “Apart from where Israel (and perhaps the Jews) is concerned”?

See above.

What you may think is a huge disconnect, Reid, I actually think is a pretty good justification for the non-Muslim world, and especially the West, to be genuinely concerned.

Why?

Remember the Muslim saying, “Kill the Jews on Saturday, kill the Christians on Sunday”? Once Islam has dealt with the ‘Jewish problem’, then Christians (the West) are next on the agenda, and any others will subsequently be brought into line after that. That’s the progression, Reid; it’s that stated aims of Islam, and is not much of a “huge leap” at all, at least not in my mind.

No I don’t remember it because I don’t hang around at Mosques very much, Kris. So when are these killings due to occur? If they’re planning on doing any at Eastbourne, I’d appreciate a heads-up, if that’s OK.

It’s really just a matter of differentiating between Muslim lies and Muslim truth. After you discount all the lies, the truth is apparent, and luckily for those with their eyes open Islam has clearly stated its true aims and objectives. It’s really just a matter of how seriously you take those stated aims. I happen to take then very seriously.

As do I Kris. Terrorism is a real actual and serious clear and present danger. That’s a fact. It’s the perspective within the wider, happening daily world, that I question.

Good answer, phil.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:52pm
Kris K

Hi Mike,

It continues to astound me that even some Christians cannot (?) see the threat Islam is to the West – especially when they so openly state their aims and objectives. Do we need a telegraph and a picture as well to convince us? Just how much evidence do some people need before their eyes are opened to the truth of Islam?

When one looks at biblical prophecy regarding the end times it’s not too hard to see the role Islam will play in the final chapter of human history. I believe that Antichrist will either be a Muslim, or will be closely aligned to Islam: The ultimate ‘Mohammed’ who will make a seven year peace treaty with Israel and the world only to break it half way through.

Interesting times we live in, that’s for sure.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 4:55pm
reid

It is not as huge leap at all Reid. Many of the top judicial and political leaders throughout the Muslim world call for a Caliphate. The stats read 30-50 odd % and more depending on region and age range. I think you are being either naive or stupid to ignore such a calling out

Mike, my point always has been that a Muslim society looks like a Western society or an Asian society or a African society. Just cause its main religious tenet is stronger than ours doesn’t make it dangerous. Who cares if Muslims are faith-filled and serious with it. Islam is a mature religion, in that it has multiple belief and behavioral structures, due to scholarship over the centuries. No doubt there are deeply scholarly articles justifying what some of them think. Fuck knows what they say, but they’d be there.

But who cares? Muslim thought would fill a library, and you’re only talking about a small section of it.

As I said to Kris last week: trying to understand Muslims by knowing what the Koran says is as ridiculous as a Muslim thinking they know how we think because they’ve just read the Bible – once.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:03pm
Rex Widerstrom

Manolo opines:

The prediction of the incompetent Kenyan becoming a one-term president, a new Jimmy Carter, will come to pass.

Yep. And the proof positive: a video which will make Jon Stewart Redbaiter’s new hero 😀

A very, very accurate lampoon of Obama. Watch it Red… I promise you might even smile.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:05pm
Kris K

reid 5:03 pm

As I said to Kris last week: trying to understand Muslims by knowing what the Koran says is as ridiculous as a Muslim thinking they know how we think because they’ve just read the Bible – once.

Actually, Reid, you make a good point:
How a Christian thinks is, or should be, primarily influenced by God’s word, the Bible, and by his Lord and Saviour – his values, faith, aspirations, treatment of others, view of the afterlife, etc.

Similarly, a Muslim is primarily influenced by what he views as Allah’s word, the Koran and Hadith, and by the example of the prophet Mohammed; Allah’s messenger.

So in both cases, not very “ridiculous” at all.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:20pm
reid

Agreed Kris, but what are you saying re: the topic at hand?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:25pm
Kris K

What I’m saying, Reid, is that a Muslim’s world view …

… heck, Reid, you’re just not that dumb to not know EXACTLY what I’m saying or what I mean.

Read the article Mike linked to at 4:40 pm – perhaps that will help.

[I’m off for a while.]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:38pm
philu

you’ve been ‘off’ for quite some time…

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 5:46pm
Manolo

Courtesy of Whale Oil:

An old priest lay dying in a hospital. He had faithfully served the people of New Zealand for many years. He motioned for his nurse to come near.

‘Yes, Father?’ said the nurse.
‘Before I pass on, I would really like to see ex Labour Party ministers Shane Jones and Chris Carter’, whispered the priest.

‘I’ll see what I can do, Father’, replied the nurse. The nurse telephoned his request to the Labour Party headquarters and waited for a response. Soon word arrived; Shane and Chris would be delighted to visit the dying priest. As they drove to the hospital, Shane commented to Chris, ‘I don’t know why the old priest wants to see us, but it certainly will help our images, given the revelations last week about our parliamentary credit card spending – it might even save our political careers!”

When they arrived at the priest’s room, the priest took Shane’s hand in his right hand and Chris’s hand in his left. There was silence and a look of serenity on the old priest’s face. Finally Shane Jones spoke: ‘Father, of all the people you could have chosen, why did you choose us to be with you as you near the end?’

The old priest slowly replied, ‘I have always tried to pattern my life after our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.’

‘Amen’, said Shane.
‘Amen’, said Chris.

The old priest continued: ‘Jesus Christ our saviour died between two lying thieving bastards and I wanted to do the same.’
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:26pm
reid

In the election that followed, Hamas, committed to the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews, won comfortably. They consolidated their position with open warfare with Fatah and about 2000 Palestinians were killed. If they’d do that to fellow Palestinians, imagine the fate of Israelis.

Having established a brutal totalitarian regime, they concentrated their efforts to bring about peace by firing 7000 rockets into Israel, killing 20 Israelis. The inaccuracy of the rockets was little consolation for those who, daily, had rockets whistling over their heads. Finally, Israel decided it had had enough. Hence Operation Cast Lead resulting in 1300 Gazans and 13 Israelis killed.

This is from the article Kris recommended above.

1300-13=100-1-kill-ratio=was-this-a-fair-fight?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:41pm
starboard

Manolo (1614) Says:

June 19th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

haha !! very very good.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:43pm
Kris K

Manolo 6:26 pm,

The old priest continued: ‘Jesus Christ our saviour died between two lying thieving bastards and I wanted to do the same.’

I wonder, Manolo, if one of the thieves on the cross, as well as being a lying thieving bastard, was also a sodomite? 😉
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:45pm
Luc Hansen

Well thanks to all the gods that Kris has gone for a while. Such extreme bigotry, while not out of place here, is hard to take in the large doses he deluges us with.

Just a quick note for the stupid rednecks, like Tom and Red etc, the idea of kryptonite as Obama’s tool to close the well was to allude to King Canute’s water: it would have killed him if he had stayed where he was. Of course, not many know that in the myth, King Canute actually took his entourage down to the sea to show that he could not stop the tide, that he was not all powerful – sorry to burst your bubble yet again, guys.

If Bush was still president you would not be going down this road – and I say this as someone who has always seen Obama and his rhetoric as an empty vessel. Event have proved me correct.

And Turkey is not about to go to war with Israel – it has traditionally befriended Israel, as it has always seen itself since the Ottoman Empire days as a safe haven for Jews from European pogroms. When Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, along with Muslims, the then Sultan couldn’t believe his luck at the influx of Jews into his care.

How many of you know that David Grun (later David Ben-Gurion) in pre-war Palestine strutted the stage dressed as a Turk and argued that Palestine’s Jews should align with Turkey in WWI? And that was precisely because the empire was seen as a safe haven for Jews. It was one argument he didn’t regret losing.

I watched an interview recently with the Turkish Foreign Minister, an urbane and educated man, who reiterated the Ottoman-Jew history, and while it’s easy to gild the lily as all was not a bed of roses within the empire, it was certainly no worse for Jews than other non-Jew sectors. The reason Turkey is so upset at Israel for the flotilla massacre is for two reasons: it was the first attack by a state on Turkish citizens in its 87 year history, and it came from a state it considered a friend. This does not mean Turkey’s leaders consider Israel an enemy, rather they want Israel to behave itself and now, of course, they are taking the Gaza siege personally.

This doesn’t mean the Turks won’t fight either – it was reported that Turkey told Israel if it didn’t release the president of IHH, that would be considered an act of war.

The anti-Islam phobia on here, fed by self-promoters like Hirst Ali, and used to hijack a territorial dispute in Palestine ’48, is simply out of whack with reality. The Palestinian leaders and the Arab League all agree to peace with Israel based on the 1967 armistice line. The US guarantees Israel’s security under such a deal. Only one country rejects it. It rejects it because it wants all of the West Bank. It’s just working through the details like how many deaths will be necessary. One’s view of Israel then depends on whether you see this as justifiable, even though it flies in the face of accepted international law and consensus. If you do, that’s your opinion, but don’t dress it up as anything but racially prejudiced colonialism, carried out with maximum violence reflecting the growing bloodlust of an increasingly extremist Israeli society.

A lesson worth taking from this week’s news is the findings of the inquiry into Bloody Sunday and the view of many that the event increased the intensity of the violence (IRA and Provisional IRA recruitment shot up) and put back the cause of peace by at least a decade. The point is that for a society that professes a desire for peace (on its terms, of course, of a defeated, compliant, permanently impoverished population in the Gaza prison and West Bank bantustans) so many of its actions clearly put the lie to this claim.

The phobia with Islam is completely unjustifiable and evidence of gross stupidity. The scare tactics of a caliphate is nonsensical. In fact, a caliphate that united Islam could well be beneficial to all as Islam would have an identifiable, single authority.

The enemy of Jews has always been Christian Europe, whose citizens remain to this day, in its equivalent Kiwiblog populations, the stronghold of anti-jew sentiment.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:47pm
reid

Agreed Kris, but what are you saying re: the topic at hand?

Kris please accept my apologies, for my rudeness.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:57pm
krazykiwi

And Turkey is not about to go to war with Israel

Agreed. They need Israeli Heron drone aircraft and engineering expertise to maintain their relentless, disproportionate war against the poor, isolated Kurdish separatists.

The enemy of Jews has always been Christian Europe

Missed your meds again Luc? Your doctor’s gonna be pissed.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:58pm
Viking2

Obama to be able to seize control of the Internet.

US President Barack Obama would be granted powers to seize control of and even shut down the internet under a new bill that describes the global internet as a US “national asset”.

Local lobby groups and academics have rounded on the plan, saying that, rather than combat terrorists, it would actually do them “the biggest favour ever” by terrorising the rest of the world, which is now heavily reliant on cyberspace.

The proposed legislation, introduced into the US Senate by independent senator Joe Lieberman, who is chairman of the US Homeland Security committee, seeks to grant the President broad emergency powers over the internet in times of national emergency.

http://media.smh.com.au/technology/tech-talk/cyber-911-pure-fantasy-1615231.html

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/obama-internet-kill-switch-proposed-20100618-yln6.html?autostart=1
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 6:59pm
reid

Just a quick note for the stupid rednecks, like Tom and Red etc, the idea of kryptonite as Obama’s tool to close the well was to allude to King Canute’s water: it would have killed him if he had stayed where he was. Of course, not many know that in the myth, King Canute actually took his entourage down to the sea to show that he could not stop the tide, that he was not all powerful – sorry to burst your bubble yet again, guys.

Thanks for explaining that, Luc. I, personally, have been heavily banking on Superman, and your logic distresses me.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:01pm
krazykiwi

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

Luc, when Muslims refer to ‘infidels’ they refer to Jews, Christians and any other persons who have not yet converted to Islam.

You’re welcome to a blinkered view of who the Jew’s enemy is, but ask the Jews themselves .. they’re in a better position to make that assessment.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:04pm
Kris K

reid 6:41 pm,

This is from the article Kris recommended above.

1300-13=100-1-kill-ratio=was-this-a-fair-fight?

I noticed you FORGOT to mention the 2000 Palestinians killed in the Hamas-Fatah conflict around the time of their elections. You know, just for the sake of balance.

And you’re obviously saying that Israel should have done nothing until 1300 Israelis had been killed by rocket-fire. Or that she was only permitted to kill as many Gazans as Israelis who were killed?

Since when has war ever been ‘proportionate’? – more liberal left wing BS!!!
We’re not playing bloody tiddly winks here, Reid – “Oooh, you jumped one of my men, I’m going to jump one of yours.”
War is WAR – you eliminate the threat to your nation and populace. If more of the enemy end up in the ground, then that’s just good management on your part, and perhaps they shouldn’t have been the aggressors in the first place.

If I was running the show, and the Gazans were rocketting my cities and towns, I’d tell the civilian population to “get out of Dodge”, and then I’d level the place. Much like Britain levelled German cities, or like the Yanks levelled Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII.

Once again, does even the Geneva convention state that war must be ‘proportionate’?
You live in la la land, Reid.

[And that’s good night from me]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:06pm
krazykiwi

@Viking2 – I expect to see more and more of this in the years ahead. World leaders crave more power, and controlling the information we’re permitted to consume is, and always has been, a cornerstone of power. We need explicit constitutional support for the freedom of information, freedom of speech and freedom from state intervention in the source and content of the knowledge we acquire.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:08pm
reid

Blah blah Kris. What actually happened were those casualty rates your very own article gave and I just repeated them.

Sorry about that but hey.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:41pm
tom hunter

But has he ever heard of King Canute?

And what’s Obama going to do? Dive down like Superman and block the well with kryptonite?

When you’ve tried to explain what you mean by way of a poorly understood allegory it does not actually help your case to pile another poorly understood allegory on top of the first…….

……..the idea of kryptonite as Obama’s tool to close the well was to allude to King Canute’s water

…..it gets even worse when you try to explain it away.

The context of that first statement makes it clear that Luc’s poor, fractured old mind simply started off thinking about King Canute – which is actually the better tale (in its common understanding) to apply to the farcical Obama – and then veered off into some loopy thing about Superman.

Of course Canute, contrary to the usual take on the story, issued his commands as a way of demonstrating to his fervent, mindless courtiers that he had limitations. Not something I think we will ever see from The One – so it’s not even that good an allegory.

Then there’s this:

And Turkey is not about to go to war with Israel…..

……This doesn’t mean the Turks won’t fight either – it was reported that Turkey told Israel if it didn’t release the president of IHH, that would be considered an act of war.

Ignorance, illogic and self-contradiction from Luc, all in the space of a few comments. Must be a day ending in “Y”.

I suppose it’s possible that Luc’s thoughts are simply not organised, but I think the problem is more that he’s having a hard time translating onto the keyboard what he has first written in crayon.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 7:52pm
JiveKitty

But Kris, I have found the best website. It has taught me the error of my ways when it comes to Islam and it will help you too!

http://www.inspiredbymuhammad.com/ courtesy of http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/18/right/

Indicative of the PR campaign for Islam, I think.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 9:09pm
Hurf Durf

My main concern is the left’s continual Chernobylisation of oil drilling – in that, an isolated incident at a plant which was nowhere near up to the safety standards of the West becomes the picture of nuclear energy everywhere and becomes a pariah. It took 20 years for nuclear to come out from the cold placed on them by Greenpeace and the other terrorist organisations. I fear it will be the same for oil, only this time civilisation won’t last that long.

When the British government open up the Falklands to drill for the sixty billion barrels of oil there, they should bar American companies from the contract. You know, as a subtle “fuck you” to the Obama Regime.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 9:18pm
Luc Hansen

Tom, I think the important point is that at that point, Israel blinked.

There is nothing illogical in saying that Turkey wants good relations with Israel, as it has had traditionally, but if the transgression is serious enough, it will fight.

And most understand that an action considered an act of war does not necessarily entail immediate action. I suppose nuance is a difficult concept for you.

But you make a good point about Obama’s sense of self, although that’s not what I originally set out to convey. The fact is that you guys are just rabid dogs onto a Democratic president and would be all praise for any Republican president who did exactly the same thing ie leave it to the experts.

And another point is that if the govt had taken over, legally, BP would be absolved of a lot of liability. Any president was stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.

Hurf, you ignoramus, this is only an isolated incident in terms of the amount of spill from one event. Spills occur all the time and cumulatively have the same effect as in the Gulf eg Niger Delta but they are the “other” (black) so don’t count, right?

And so you are saying the end of oil (inevitable) is the end of civilisation? Just who is the alarmist around here?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:10pm
Hurf Durf

Oh no, scary oil spills. Yeah, they happen. That’s the reality of heavy industry: something will go horribly wrong. Which means you don’t force companies to drill in superdeep territory so it is easier to plug in the event of a leak. Not hard, unless you’re a leftist in which case logic goes out of the window and replaced by emotion and “the poor widdle birdies.”

And so you are saying the end of oil (inevitable) is the end of civilisation? Just who is the alarmist around here?

Your extremist friends like Monbiot say that all the time. You should be happy that I am so “enlightened.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:22pm
JiveKitty

@Hurf: If you look at what Obama’s done through a political lense, it makes a lot of sense. I doubt the British will begrudge him. Even those with the pension funds taking a big hit are unlikely to blame him.

As to those questioning why Obama and the USA care about this spill bit not others, use logic. If something happens in your backyard, you care. If something happens where you have interests, you probably care. If something happens in some pokey little backwater quite a significant distance from you and where you have few interests, you’re muss less likely to care. If the media also doesn’t care, then you don’t have to give much appearance of caring. Simple.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:25pm
Hurf Durf

No, JiveKitty, you HAVE to care about the Niger Delta, because WE ARRRRRRRRRE THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD etc.

@Hurf: If you look at what Obama’s done through a political lense, it makes a lot of sense. I doubt the British will begrudge him.

The British have turned on him en masse, the Daily Mail’s reporting on his degenerate grandfather (who should have been shot tbqh) as being the reason for his rampant Anglophobia and more and more government figures are condemning Barky for his ineptitude. Still, I have no sympathy; they largely backed Barky to the hilt, particularly the corrupt Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation and even Tory heroes like Daniel Hannan. This will surely be a “teachable moment”: the Democratic Party is no friend of the British.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:29pm
Luc Hansen

No, Hurf, we say the end of oil is necessary to save civilisation!

Or at a minimum, the end of coal.

And I suppose you are just too young to understand that whichever party is in power in the US, it’s the national interest, stupid that trumps everything.

I do hope Wikileaks has the balls to release the stolen cables – the world will, I’m sure, learn a lot about US policy formulation! And if the US is such the force for good you guys say it is, what is it afraid of?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:38pm
JiveKitty

Ahh, but Hurf, you only have to give the appearance of caring if it’s got media coverage (except where you have interests – then you create the coverage). If not, you can continue to not give a fuck and continue to appear as such. The cynical view, perhaps, but also realistic, I think.

The Daily Mail’s unsurprising. It’s a biased piece of shit. Much like most other newspapers and tabloids, but its clear bias in recent times has not been pro-Obama.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:44pm
Hurf Durf

No, Hurf, we say the end of oil is necessary to save civilisation!

So I assume you have the necessary plans in place to replace plastics, which require oil for their construction, as well as the massive economy-busting expansion of nuclear power in order to provide the necessary bulk power to move all those trendy electric cars? And, of course, the installation of nuclear reactors into ships and hydrogen fuel cells into aircraft to keep them going. Everything is all planned, mapped out, every step of the way?

Oh wait, no, they aren’t. What you seek is the destruction of our way of life. Back to the farm with us nasty Kulak polluters!

whichever party is in power in the US, it’s the national interest, stupid that trumps everything.

Herp derp doorp blerrf, really? That’s amazing. Maybe now you understand that’s why Flopenhagen, er, flopped. You know, the thing that was going to revive central planning for the 21st Century.

the world will, I’m sure, learn a lot about US policy formulation! And if the US is such the force for good you guys say it is, what is it afraid of?

Like I give a fuck.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:45pm
JiveKitty

How is steel made?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:50pm
krazykiwi

we say the end of oil is necessary to save civilisation!

Who’s we?.

And yeah, civilisation has really suffered since the boom of abundant, cheap energy. Trade, transport, travel, technology. What were we thinking?

Out with oil!

Out with coal!

Luc knows best. Let’s go back to the caves.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:51pm
krazykiwi

Just on energy, Luc wants us to abandon modern energy. So let’s compare a present day country that has never had abundant, cheap energy .. with one that has plenty: North Korea and South Korea.

A picture tells a thousand words doesn’t it?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 10:57pm
Hurf Durf

Luc Hansen knows: he who controls the energy controls the universe. I for one look forward to asking permission from the People’s Socialist Republic of Aotearoa’s Ministry of Happiness to switch on a lightbulb.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 11:00pm
tom hunter

……whose citizens remain to this day, in its equivalent Kiwiblog populations, the stronghold of anti-jew sentiment.

To Luc, irony is just like goldy or bronzy, only it’s made of iron.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 19, 2010 11:46pm
NOt1tocommentoften

nickb – I have honours degrees in both thanks – LLB and BA.

I can’t understand why you think drafting a contract should be part of a university course – it is best learnt on the job.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 20, 2010 2:25pm
NOt1tocommentoften

And the answer to your question re learning to draft a contract on profs is no.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 20, 2010 2:28pm

More comments:

‹
1
2

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Expenses et al

The difference between Donald and Norman »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Highlights

The Kiwis are fleeing
Inflation by term
Houston we have a problem
Our immunisation disaster

Never miss a post

Email Address

Links

Chris Lynch: ACC pays out $9.6m for COVID-19 vaccine injures
Breaking Views
"Horrendously, anti-Semitism comes to be seen as a morally virtuous position."
Not PC
Two Videos from a “Liberal” licking a Red Pill
Utopia
Two Videos from a “Liberal” licking a Red Pill
No Minister
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Vic Uni shows how under threat free speech is
Point of Order
The scale of NZ Police corruption is gasp inducing and demands far more fear from Kiwis
The Daily Blog
Open mike 28/04/2024
The Standard
Mana or Money
NZCPR
Policing protests.
Kiwipolitico
THE WAY THINGS WERE
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
"Comity" versus the rule of law
No Right Turn
Jacinda’s legacy – Increasing number of abortions
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
United Rugby Championship Predictions for Week 15
Stats Chat
Despair - construction consenting edition
Offsetting Behaviour
Tougher than that
Croaking Cassandra
ABs stripped of 2011 title after try disallowed
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz