General Debate 21 July 2010

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Yvette

Have a go – someone else
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July 21, 2010 8:01am
Yvette

BREASTS ARE GETTING BIGGER
“In 1960, the average bra size in Australia was 10B. Ten years ago, it was 12B. Today, it’s 14C. “It’s six to seven sizes up in a comparatively few number of years,” says Sally Berkeley, the general manager of bra company Berlei, which next month launches a new super-sized range of cups, up to an H, to add to the traditional A-to-E dimensions.
Rival Eveden now has a K cup, while Triumph is up to a G and is trialling a new cup size, J, for the next season.
“Twenty years ago, women couldn’t buy this sort of fashion product with support in these sizes,” says Triumph spokesperson Alana Jones.
“But we’ve been getting so many requests from consumers, and we’ve now even got a sports bra coming out in a J cup.
“Our team has undertaken international research and found that British women are also now five centimetres taller and have hips four centimetres larger than they had in the 1950s, while, instead of being size 12, they’re edging towards size 16. We’d expect that to be similar to here.”
[…]
A whole science has grown up around supporting and protecting bigger breasts, particularly for those women wanting to undertake vigorous exercise.
Running makes the breasts sway in a figure eight, while cycling causes an up-and-down movement; a 16D pair move as much as 27 centimetres. Wollongong University sports physiotherapist Deirdre McGhee is studying the biomechanics of breast movement in order to improve bra design.”
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/3934083/Breasts-are-getting-bigger

Is the science of this settled? No, and it may overtake the world faster than global warming. “British women are also now five centimetres taller and have hips four centimetres larger than they had in the 1950s, while, instead of being size 12, they’re edging towards size 16” which is faster than the rate that the ocean levels are rising. Think about it – one half of person-kind could fall over, and the other half go blind before we know what has happened.
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July 21, 2010 8:02am
Yvette

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.
– Ronald Reagan
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July 21, 2010 8:03am
Yvette

🙂 Oh, welll . . .
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July 21, 2010 8:03am
Murray

You’re making a tit of yourself.
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July 21, 2010 8:11am
Yvette

tits
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July 21, 2010 8:12am
MikeNZ

http://www.meforum.org/2689/against-two-state-solution

“Two states, living side by side in peace and security.” This, in the words of President Barack Obama, is the solution to the century-long conflict between Jews and Palestinian Arabs in the Middle East. Washington is fully and determinedly on board. So are the Europeans. The UN and the “international community” vociferously agree. Successive governments of the state of Israel have shown their support for the idea. So far, there is—just as there has always been—only one holdout.

Now guess who that can be?
Maybe those who are subject to the largesse of the wicked western world’s aid perhaps.
Per chance if they had no aid they would get on with building a life and a functioning society for their people.

I see a certain parallel here with people in NZ long term on the benefit don’t you?
If we stop all aid then they have to get it from their own people/families and are beholden to them not some faceless aid giver.
They then are required to have relationships commensurate with that and are accountable to people they know and can and will say no more.

If Lindsay Mitchell and others are correct, how do we make this happen both in the Middle East and at home.
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July 21, 2010 8:12am
Sonny Blount

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2452761/New-boobs-please.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News
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July 21, 2010 8:15am
starboard

Auckland City Council ignored illegal structures on a Black Power stronghold for years because of “safety concerns” for staff, according to a letter sent on behalf of Mayor John Banks.
But the council was quick to threaten $750-a-day fines on the new owner of the gang pad and suggested he call police if he felt pressured by members to leave.
The Herald this week revealed that gang members were again using the two-level house in Jolson Rd, Mt Wellington, despite it being confiscated and sold under the Proceeds of Crime Act in January.

cool…so if I become a bad arse and build shit on my property without a permit I wont have to worry about the council bothering me…fucken soft cock arseholes…typical….happy to pick on joe average but havent got the balls to enforce the law to lawbreakers.
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July 21, 2010 8:23am
Brian Smaller

BREASTS ARE GETTING BIGGER

Well mine certainly have.
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July 21, 2010 8:37am
Falafulu Fisi

Some science fiction today but could become reality in the near future. Excellent lecture by string & theoretical physicist Prof. Michio Kaku on youtube:

Physics of the Impossible

Good one to watch before you start your day.
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July 21, 2010 8:38am
Inventory2

Yvette – beware; one of Philip Ure’s less endearing features was his constant chatter to himself ….
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July 21, 2010 8:38am
Pete George

MikeNZ: I see a certain parallel here with people in NZ long term on the benefit don’t you?
If we stop all aid then they have to get it from their own people/families and are beholden to them not some faceless aid giver.
They then are required to have relationships commensurate with that and are accountable to people they know and can and will say no more.

All benefits, including sickness? Widows? Super?

How could it be done without causing widespread problems, adjustments, and inevitable hardship for many?
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July 21, 2010 8:54am
Murray

Thanks Brian, thats just what we all wanted to have an image of at breakfast.
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July 21, 2010 8:59am
Murray

Mike check out the new mall opened in Gaza this week. Very flash and you wont see it on CNN.
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July 21, 2010 9:02am
MikeNZ

Pete
A suggestion instead of just asking questions as you are wont to do, write possible solutions, so that we can engage with you.

What do you think about the premise that the Gazans are on aid and have no incentive to build a functioning society as some one else is always picking up the tab?

Murray
yeah looked at it a few days ago, swish by their standards and no it won’t be on the MSM will it, wonder why not?

Brian
manboobs I’m embarressed with mine.
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July 21, 2010 9:16am
jinpy

MikeNZ,

How are you with the fact that the Isreali state illegally occupies land according to agreed international resolutions?
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July 21, 2010 9:20am
jinpy

spelling — Israeli,

what really gets me with your narrow journalism is that you totally ignore ultimate causes and history. It’s like someone has had their legs broken and you point out the pus in their wounds as evil.
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July 21, 2010 9:23am
Murray

Fuck off jinpy how are you with the palestinians tearing up the Un sttlement out of the blocks and attacking Israel.

Isreal has done nothing but kick the Arabs back every time they attack and then hand back the fucking land. Time and time again.

If they kept what they legally gained inwar they would be half wat to Damascus, on the Egyptian side of the Suez and still in Beirut.

How are you on the legality of palestinains firing illegal weapons into Israel every single day from illegal locations and illegally targeting civilians? No I didn’t think you gave a fuck about that. Like all arseholes of your kind its all good as long its its Jews doing the dying.
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July 21, 2010 9:28am
mavxp

I wonder whether the increase in breast size since the 1950s (along with height and hip size) is down to:

1) Diet – increased height and hip size suggests better nutrition. Breast size alone could be due to increased obesity, or a function of the growth hormones fed to livestock, particularly chickens entering the foodchain. Another factor is the pill. Chock full of hormones – what effect does that have on the growth of breast (and hip?) size in women?

2) Demographics. 1950s UK was a lot more mono-ethnic than today; 2010 there are more Caribean/African British and Asian British (Indian subcontinent in particular). The same can be said of Australia, although sources of immigrants is predominantly European and South East Asia – who tend to be slighter even than europeans.

Of the two, I’m going with diet as being the predominant factor.
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July 21, 2010 9:30am
mawm

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”

“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”

– Thomas Jefferson
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July 21, 2010 9:33am
Pete George

Mike: “A suggestion instead of just asking questions as you are wont to do, write possible solutions, so that we can engage with you.”

You are the one making the suggestions, not me, so why don’t you explain how you think it could be achieved? I was asking how you thought it could work.

I think we have to try and reduce the burden of benefits on state finances, but it’s bloody hard to achieve fairly. I think the cold turkey approach would be a disaster, inflicting major hardship on many people and families.
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July 21, 2010 9:34am
MikeNZ

jinpy
yeah yeah yeah.
You obviously have read http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/cover.html
War is horrible isn’t it from 6,000 miles away with a cuppa.

Can you direct me to your comments where you moan about Jordan’s annexation of the West Bank from 1948 until 1967 (yes that’s 19 years) and not give statehood to the poor Palestinians and their protection of all minorities incl their right to exercise their religion?
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July 21, 2010 9:34am
gazzmaniac

jinpy – the very nature of war means that one state might occupy the territory of another state. It is not illegal under any international law, however in the case of Israel it is against some UN resolutions – that Israel do not and will not agree to. I am sure that all Israel wants is peace, however it does not seem that many Palestinians want peace. Israel has given up territory that it won in wars in 1956 and 1973, in good will gestures in an attempt to create a peaceful Middle East. What has it got in return? More people disrupting its way of life with terrorism.
What would you do if your country shared a border with a hostile government who encouraged its citizens to shoot rockets over the border at easy targets such as schools and hospitals?
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July 21, 2010 9:35am
MikeNZ

Come on Pete
What do you think about the premise that the Gazans are on aid and have no incentive to build a functioning society as some one else is always picking up the tab?

it’s hard sure, But what’s fair about allowing people to stay on a benefit for years and not upskill themselves or retrain?
How do we justify not making people responsible for their lives but keep them dependent on other peoples money?
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July 21, 2010 9:37am
jinpy

wasn’t talking to you Murray, but just to clarify,

I don’t condone anything Hamas does but I can see the conditions under which the terrorist actions arise in Palestine and I see Israel as helping create the conditions for the extremists to flourish such as illegally building settlements. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t say that Israel could legally get anything it wants by warfare and then say that anybody that responds is automatically a terrorist.

I mean its a complex problem and I know fairly little about it, but I think you have to have some kind of terrific bias operating not to have some understanding of the Palestinian plight.
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July 21, 2010 9:39am
MikeNZ

Jinpy
Yes you know fairly little about it.

MYTH

“Israel’s failure to implement UN resolutions is a violation of international law.”

FACT

UN resolutions are documents issued by political bodies and need to be interpreted in light of the constitution of those bodies. They represent the political viewpoints of those who support them rather than embodying any particular legal rules or principles. Resolutions can have moral and political force when they are perceived as expressing the agreed view of the international community, or the views of leading, powerful and respected nations.

The UN Charter (Articles 10 and 14) specifically empowers the General Assembly to make only nonbinding “recommendations.” Assembly resolutions are only considered binding in relation to budgetary and internal procedural matters.

The legality of Security Council resolutions is more ambiguous. It is not clear if all Security Council resolutions are binding or only those adopted under Chapter 7 of the Charter.21 Under Article 25 of the Charter, UN member states are obligated to carry out “decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter,” but it is unclear which kinds of resolutions are covered by the term “decisions.” Regardless, it would be difficult to show that Israel has violated any Security Council resolutions on their wording and the Council has never sanctioned Israel for noncompliance.
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July 21, 2010 9:40am
jinpy

MikeNZ,

I never said war was nice, if I had rockets fired on me from afar I would be angry and want swift retribution. But that may be the advantage in being far away — we can look at both sides more objectively perhaps.

As for Jordan’s annexation, I didn’t know about that and that is intersting, I’ll check it out. I’m not professing to be a Middle East expert and just to clarify I think Israel has a right to exist, now that it’s there. I’m just bewildered by your seeming hatred of a group of people that have clearly had a difficult lot and have suffered extremely unevenly in terms of casualties in the conflict.

also, just because Jordan behaved badly doesn’t mean it’s right for Israel to.
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July 21, 2010 9:45am
cha

Think Again: Ronald Reagan

To me the most interesting part of the essay is where the author points out Reagan’s actions towards Israel.

In 1981, when Israel did strike Iraq, bombing its Osirak nuclear reactor, Reagan backed a U.N. resolution condemning the move. And in 1982, when Israel attacked West Beirut in an effort to destroy Yasir Arafat’s PLO, Reagan told Begin that Israel’s behavior constituted a “holocaust.” (Begin, whose parents and older brother were murdered by the Nazis, did not appreciate the line.)
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July 21, 2010 9:45am
MikeNZ

Jinby
You really need to exercise common sense and read more.

Israel was attacked in 1948 at her founding by five nations and outnumbered.
Also in 1956, 1967 and 1973.
In all those wars she gained territory and gave back land when agreements were reached.
The West bank is exactly the same issue.

In law she does not have to give back anything if she feels that she will be attacked again or the safety of her citizens are at risk.
Until that issue is dealt to this will go on.

Rather why aren’t you discussing the apparent inability of the Arabs (not palestinians) to recognise Israel and stop attacking her and her citizens and to show that they want peace and are capable of building a functioning society.
The same with the two sided words one set for Western consumption and the other for Islam.
The same can be said for the partiality of the UN, EU and others against Israel in the light of International law.

She does not have to give anything back ever as it is spoils of war and if she does it is on her terms for her citizens safety as the basis of that.
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July 21, 2010 9:48am
jinpy

Gazz,

As I said to Murray, the trick you seem to play is to allow israel to war, yet label any response to this as terrorism? I mean you’ve just tried to paint “given up territory won in wars” as a lovely feelgood gesture…, and then any response is “people disrupting it’s life with terrorism”. The thing I think Israel should consider is how they can make a better future and objectively look at whether there approach is working. It doesn’t seem to be working to me. They are the player in power, there’s not much the peace-loving Palestinian can do — their society is in ruins.
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July 21, 2010 9:52am
MikeNZ

Hatred.
Stop using emotional painting words to demonise me.
This is a sore that won’t go away until people everywhere start using common sense instead of idealogy.

I am speaking the truth about behaviour and attitudes but you seem unable to exercise common sense about this.
Go read http://www.eyeontheun.org/ as well to see the impartiality of the UN.
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July 21, 2010 9:52am
MikeNZ

Pete
just read a comment over on the thread a total backdown.
kiwi in america (904) Says:
July 20th, 2010 at 6:45 pm

there is the reason we must deal to long term benefit dependance.
How we do it doesn’t matter, first we have to recognise it and then implement a plan.

Palestinians and aid.
Now I posit that this issue is parallel to the so called Palestinians who never wanted a state until after 1970’s when it became apparent that they couldn’t beat Israel in open war.
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July 21, 2010 10:02am
Jibbering Gibbon

I see a certain parallel here with people in NZ long term on the benefit don’t you?
If we stop all aid then they have to get it from their own people/families and are beholden to them not some faceless aid giver.
They then are required to have relationships commensurate with that and are accountable to people they know and can and will say no more.

Someone here was commenting on a Canton system for NZ, which would be a possible end to this idea. In the early days though, you’d have to be prepared to attract a certain level of what is now considered organised crime. At a basic level the idea has merit as long as the (hypothetical) widow’s family is rich, or the family has land that produces food. But in urban environments, options are heavily restricted. The idea of having relationships with those who support you is good.
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July 21, 2010 10:05am
Owen McShane

MOre slack and misleading report on water quality in swimming holes around the North Island in yesterday’s Herald

How can the public make correct decisions when our officials write up such misleading reports and the news media faithfully report them.

They say the polluted lagoons are attractive to young children but do not seem to realise the ecoli are in the lagoons because the kids pooh in them. These warm shallow lagoons are giant fermentation ponds.
Naturally the reports blame farmers etc. But if they want to reduce the ecoli the answer is to ban kids from swimming in them – and dogs.
Here is the Herald article:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10659958

Notable quote:
“Piha Lagoon, where young children often swim, was Auckland’s worst spot. It was found to have high levels of E.coli, an indicator of faecal or human bacteria, in half of its tests over the 2009/2010 summer period.”

A study of Karekare lagoon found the same thing and blamed septic tanks along the streams.But when I examined the data the correlation was with temperature (ie highest in Late February/March) whereas the highest occupancy occurs in late December.

You will see all the “crosses” are on still warm shallow lagoons while all the ticks are on big bodies of cold water (Taupo) or running rivers. The streams in Northland I have checked are actually measured in lagoons where the stream meets the beach. So they are actually measuring the fermentation in the pond.
Classic junk science. The e-coli concentrations follow temperature – not local occupancy.
But lets blame the farmers anyway.
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July 21, 2010 10:05am
jinpy

MikeNZ,

Yes, I would’ve guessed there’s some disagreement around the validity of UN resolutions. I think it’s interesting though that with the exception of certain nations, notably the US, the international community comes into agreement against many of the actions of Israel. Is the whole world biased against Israel or do they have a point?

Blaming the whole thing on Palestinians won’t solve the conflict. Look, I’m not saying Israel isn’t in a precarious position and shouldn’t defend itself. I mean, if I had angry arab neighbours who espoused all sorts of nasty stuff in their rhetoric I would be worried too. But surely you’re not helping yourself in that situation by doing provocative actions such as building settlements on Palestinian territory, or tearing up houses and leaving communities in rubble. I mean to go over the border, what would you feel like growing up in Palestine?

I can see both sides of the story, can you?

Anyway, I’ve vented my frustration at your bias and selective presentation of the situation. Beyond that there doesn’t seem much point in continuing my chalenge. You would be able to find plenty of gaps in my knowledge given that it’s your hobby horse and you know where all the websites are, and you wouldn’t admit a single point that I gained on you, so I leave you with victory. You won! How does it feel — still a shit conflict going on with no end in sight…
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July 21, 2010 10:07am
MikeNZ

Jinby
I am starting to think you are liar, naive or stupid.
As you attempt to appear a sensible, questioning person isn’t working.

the thing I think Israel should consider is how they can make a better future and objectively look at whether there approach is working. It doesn’t seem to be working to me. They are the player in power, there’s not much the peace-loving Palestinian can do — their society is in ruins.

Israel has tried giving up land for peace but the Arabs want all the pieces!
Duh!

They left Gaza and what happened?
10,000 rockets and kidnapping of citizens from within Israel.

They gave over more autonomy in the West Bank and what happened?
They had to build a wall to stop the suicide bombers.

The issue is recognising The State of Israel to exist and now it requires all the countries that have ever warred on her (or have supported them or aided/funded them) to do so for it to work.
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July 21, 2010 10:09am
MikeNZ

mawm (69) Says:
July 21st, 2010 at 9:33 am

great quote.
mike
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July 21, 2010 10:13am
MikeNZ

mavxp (200) Says:
July 21st, 2010 at 9:30 am

I think you are probably correct, I read an article about that the Japanese had found the same in their society as they have taken on Western diet (getting bigger).
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July 21, 2010 10:14am
MikeNZ

Falafulu Fisi (553) Says:
July 21st, 2010 at 8:38 am

Thanks I’ll watch tonight.
trying to work and keep an eye on Kiwiblog. 🙂
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July 21, 2010 10:16am
backster

From today’s ‘Stuff’
“It’s a farewell fit for a queen or at least her New Zealand representative – the governor-general’s severance pay is to be doubled to six months’ salary. ”

I agree with KEITH LOCKE…The perks and entitlements of this unnecessary sinecure are outrageous and should be dispensed with as an example that the government really is serious about the state of the Nation and its welfare dependency, nor is he speaking from a Socialist point of view as it was LABOUR that committed to the multimillion dollar squandering on the house for him to live in.

Disclosure…and I am a Royalist not a Republican.
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July 21, 2010 10:19am
gazzmaniac

jinpy – I am pointing out that no matter what Israel does, it will still be attacked by people who don’t think it should be there at all. In the four major wars they have had, they were attacked first. In every case they won ground, and in each case they gave that ground back, for the promise of a peace that has never eventuated. You’d start to feel a little bit like you couldn’t trust the other side to deal in good faith if that happened to you, wouldn’t you?
I believe that Israel would like nothing more than to be able to disband its military and live peacefully with its neighbours. I also believe that the only reason why the Arab states that border it have not made war with them since 1973 is because of its military superiority, and that this peace has allowed all but one of them to realise the benefits of trading with and not fighting with their neighbour.
Israel are in a no win situation with Palestine. If they leave the Palestinians alone, Hamas will import weapons and wage a campaign of terror against Israel. If they don’t they will never have peace, and will continue to have people like you campaign against their “overreactions.”
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July 21, 2010 10:23am
RightNow

See Gaza’s nice new shopping mall: http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001127.html
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July 21, 2010 10:42am
mawm

Owen McShane (1,011) Says:
July 21st, 2010 at 10:05 am

MOre slack and misleading report….

……. – and dogs.

Do you have anything to back up your comment that dogs contribute to the E coli content in the water? I’ve never seen a dog crap in water!
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July 21, 2010 10:57am
stephen

‘Kiwis turn to credit to pay bills’

D&B New Zealand’s general manager John Scott said the survey revealed both positives and negative.

“It is clear that some consumers are finding it tough making ends meet, while for others, it appears that consumer conservatism has fallen by the wayside and a return to a credit fuelled lifestyle is on the horizon,” he said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/personal-finance/3939795/Kiwis-turn-to-credit-to-pay-bills

Where’s the positive here?!
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July 21, 2010 10:59am
RightNow

I was interested reading an article about African Americans in the USA being disproportionately highly represented in abortion figures, so just did some quick research for NZ. Here’s what I worked out:
NZ ethnicity breakdown (2006 census):
European 61%
Maori 13%
Pacific 6%
Asian 8%

Abortion Rates (2009 from Stats NZ)
European 51%
Maori 21%
Pacific 12%
Asian 15%

So Asians and Pacific peoples are about double, Maori almost double.

Just saying.
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July 21, 2010 11:01am
Jibbering Gibbon

Do you have anything to back up your comment that dogs contribute to the E coli content in the water? I’ve never seen a dog crap in water!

I’ve seen a dog crap on hill and it’s lesser cousin, the sand dune. Gravity can do the rest. Or that thing dogs do: do the doo doo then use back paws to wildly spray it around the area in an attempt to bury it. If dogs were human, they’d be German and called artists.
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July 21, 2010 11:10am
mawm

I’ve seen a dog crap on hill and it’s lesser cousin, the sand dune……………

That must qualify for the most stupid comment I’ve seen.

Dogs crap, so do all other animals. The do: do with the doo doo, if you look carefully, is to cover the doo and not spray it around. Cats do the same and so do many other small mammals.
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July 21, 2010 11:18am
MikeNZ

What Rightnow?
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July 21, 2010 11:41am
MikeNZ

Jibbering
Now that you make the observation, I’ve never seen a cow crap in water either!
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July 21, 2010 11:42am
Inventory2

One less sexual predator walking our streets – well done to the Police …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/07/good-policing.html
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July 21, 2010 11:42am
RightNow

MikeNZ – basically I’m saying I calculated that Maori, Pacific and Asian NZ women have more than twice as many abortions (per capita) than ‘European’ NZ women.
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July 21, 2010 11:50am
MikeNZ

Thanks RN
It’s still too many?
Casually discarding a life because it is inconvenient is a sickness, though I suspect some on this site don’t think so.

Love to know the % in relation to the number of people in sexual relationship/acts and the % who don’t use any protection.
x% of sex = no of pregnancies = no of abortions
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July 21, 2010 12:28pm
Augustus

MikeNZ, you’ve never seen a cow crap in water? Obviously you don’t live in the countryside. Cows love water. Being herded across creeks and rivers, almost every one of them will stop and do the deed. They actually look for waterways to do it in, if they have a choice. Natural instinct to use a “flush”?
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July 21, 2010 12:32pm
MikeNZ

Thanks Augustus
another thing to add to my must see list 🙂
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July 21, 2010 12:37pm
backster

“I’ve never seen a dog crap in water!

You have never met my Golden Lab then. He often goes out to almost the first breaker on the beach to have a crap and sometimes into the middle of our river to do likewise.
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July 21, 2010 1:02pm
MikeNZ

Mine won’t, he prefers the beach.
that’s why we carry little plastic bags here in Wellington.
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July 21, 2010 1:33pm
mawm

Backster – OMG, shoot him quick 😉
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July 21, 2010 1:36pm
MikeNZ

Jnpy
The Mid east crisi will never go away and maybe we’ll have an opportunity to discuss this all again in September/October
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/when_fall_arrives_israels_new.html

Turkey’s Heightened Profile and the Goldstone Report

Turkey is set to take over the rotating presidency of the U.N. Security Council in September. With Turkey at the helm, Israel can expect resolutions to come forth condemning Israel, once again, for the flotilla crisis of May-June 2010. Turkey continues to demand that Israel apologize for the killing of nine Turkish nationalists on board the Mavi Marmara, one of the ships in the flotilla. Israel refuses to apologize, insisting that the nationalists were terrorists that attacked Israeli naval commandos when they tried to stop the ship from breaking the blockade of Gaza. Turkey is also demanding financial compensation for the families of the terrorists, which Israel has so far refused to grant. Israel has said that Turkey should apologize for sending a terrorist ship to the Middle East. Meanwhile, Turkey is insisting on an international commission of inquiry to look into the Gaza flotilla crisis and could use its influence at the U.N. to fulfill its demands. Turkey has also threatened to cut off all diplomatic ties with Israel.

It’s expected that the Goldstone Report will be reintroduced at the U.N. in September during Turkey’s role as head of the Security Council. Israel considers the report biased and full of falsehoods, pointing to inaccuracies that favor Hamas and condemn Israel. The report has been used by Israel-haters to try to delegitimize the Jewish State, especially its need to defend itself against terrorist regimes.
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July 21, 2010 1:38pm
Jibbering Gibbon

Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTIHorI9Zf4

Dog craps in water, on ball, then lies on it. Probably driven to it by sound of owner’s voice.
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July 21, 2010 1:39pm
MikeNZ

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/07/19/the-truth-about-islam-at-ground-zero/

Whilst I don’t stand for all he says, on Islam he gets it.
Jnpy, this is for you.
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July 21, 2010 1:53pm
mawm

That is hilarious. Someone has waaaay toooooo much time on their hands.

So we know of 2 dogs that crap in the water, but I stand by my initial request for evidence about dogs being responsible for the ‘high’ E coli levels. The odd exception does not raise the levels to unsafe. I’m not even sure we can blame paddling kiddies. The most likely sources are commercial farms and leaking sewers/sewage treatment plants.
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July 21, 2010 1:54pm
side show bob

Augustus is quite correct cows love crapping or pissing in water. It’s why the regional councils do their nuts if farmers have unfenced waterways. When driving cows across water all will lift their tales like periscopes and most will let rip.
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July 21, 2010 2:38pm
tom hunter

If you feel hard done by in NZ with regard to tax vs income vs Government employees, have a look at the town of Bell, California, population 38,000.

It was the first council meeting since the Los Angeles Times reported July 15 that Chief Administrative Officer Robert Rizzo earns $787,637 — with annual 12 percent raises — and that Bell pays its police chief $457,000, more than Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck makes in a city of 3.8 million people. Bell council members earn almost $100,000 for part-time work…

Bloody hell, no wonder the state is rooted.
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July 21, 2010 2:39pm
Jibbering Gibbon

To work out the pollutive effect of any particular doo doo, you need to know the weight of the animal you’re dealing with, have a sample of their doo doo and test for bacterial content. In humans this is around 0.02% to 0.05% of body weight. We are indeed, filthy creatures. But not all E- coli bacteria are harmful, so you’d have to find which ones were and weigh them. Then you’d need to find out the size and temperature of your lagoon pond.

All this is quite hard and we like easy, so blaming dogs will doo. Because they smell and bark and eat the last sausage from the BBQ. It could also be the result of excessive water bird doo doo or excrement from other dawgs; the type you see in carparks, revving the motors of their crappy jap import cars, and with their caps turned backwards.
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July 21, 2010 3:13pm
Owen McShane

Mawm
You do not seem to appreciate that you only a few bacteria in a pool of warm water full of nutrients for the population of the bacteria soon to rise to the trillions.

Any wine maker or beer brewer knows too how sensitive the fermentation rate is to temperature..

If you look at the pictures of the lagoons with the crosses you will see there is hardly a cow in sight.

I have seen mothers clean out their kiddies nappies in these lagoons and it is equivalent to seeding a wine vat with yeast.
However, the risk is hugely overestimated. People do not tend to swallow huge amounts of this water and their systems cope with small dose. Our bowels are full of them.

Dog’s do crap in water but don’t need to to contribute – they walk in it and role in it. Part of their hunting technique. Covers their own smell.

Councils measure the ecoli in these fermentation ponds, cause general panic, and their consulting engineers use this junk data to justify building massive engineering sewage plants rather than on site treatment using evapo transpiration fields etc.

Follow the money.
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July 21, 2010 3:14pm
Owen McShane

Mawm
Do look at the picture of the Piha lagoon and ask yourself where the farms are and the leaking sewage treatment plants?

And as I say the ecoli levels in the Karekare lagoon correlated with temperature not with bach occupancy but council had automatically assumed the septic tank seepage was to blame.
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July 21, 2010 3:20pm
Rex Widerstrom

Everybody’s debating dogs pooing in the water… Owen’s original post mentioned kids doing it.

If a child is old enough to swim it is surely old enough to exercise bowel control?!

I can honestly say my kids have only ever gone in one of two places – a nappy or the toilet. What sort of parenting allows children to crap where they, and others, are swimming and presumably paddle happily through the resulting effluent?!
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July 21, 2010 3:35pm
mawm

Owen- bacteria only multiply (I assume that is what you mean) if the conditions – pH, temperature (and colonic bacteria will need a higher temp than that of the water), O2, nutrients, etc. are optimal. The use of phage typing will identify the sources of the bacteria but I still doubt that a couple of kiddies and dogs (most domestic dogs are kept clean) in such a vast expanse of water would be responsible for the high levels. It must be upstream, in the bach’s or the milking sheds.

The virulence of the particular organism will be important to determine the likelihood of contracting and illness, not necessarily the number (volume of water) exposed to. E coli are not the only bugs in the water, and bugs like Salmonella typhi do not require a high organism load to cause typhoid.

BTW – yeasts are not bacteria so I don’t understand the comparison.
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July 21, 2010 3:45pm
stephen

Two kids steal a bunch of cars as part of a crime spree:

Police said all but one of the stolen vehicles in the crime spree had keys left in them.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3941315/Road-spikes-stop-teens-in-stolen-Jaguar

Weeeee!
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July 21, 2010 3:48pm
Yvette

MikeNZ – http://frontpagemag.com/2010/07/19/the-truth-about-islam-at-ground-zero/

You can think this is stretching it a little – the building is two blocks from Ground Zero. But then it is planned to open next year on September 11, the 10th anniversary ?
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July 21, 2010 3:50pm
grumpyoldhori

Yvette, so where do you fit in with this bounceometer ? 🙂

http://www.shockabsorber.co.uk/bounceometer/shock.
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July 21, 2010 4:27pm
Owen McShane

Maum
The water in these lagoons in February is more than blood heat.
Bacteria and yeasts multiply at about the same rate and their exponential growth soon produces massive populations. We only need a few grains of yeast from the atmosphere to ferment sourdough bread.

Yes, ecoli are only an indicator which is yet another reason not to jump to conclusions about toxicity.
I can assure that that there are no farms upstream from the Piha lagoon or the Karekare lagoon. And I do not know of any septic tanks that seap into the Piha lagoon. The lagoons are surrounded by a massive sand filter.
All I am saying is that these crude findings of ecoli levels are not sufficient to justify claims of dirty dairing or risk to kiddies.
And certainly not to justify the spending of scores of millions of dollars on centralised treatment plants when on site treatment systems are now much more sustainable. I use mine to irrigate and fertilise plantings of bush and other plants.

This is just more junk science of the kind I identify in my report on contaminated soils at:
http://rmastudies.org.nz/documents/FContFinal.pdf

The ARC claimed there were 5,000 contaminated residential sites in Auckland and put this on to LIM reports. As a result of my report they brought in an expert who reduced the number to five. Five sites. Not five thousand. In the meantime thousands of people had panicked.
Junk science.
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July 21, 2010 5:23pm
jinpy

MikeNZ,

Fairly uncontroversial for Turkey to ask for an apologize after its citizens died I would have thought for a raid on international waters — while some seemed to have fought the soldiers and had weapons the evidence that they are ‘terrorists’ comes from Israel.

The mosque does seem provocative particularly if the planned date is correct. I’d be pretty angry if I had lost someone in the attack.

The fact is there are moderate muslims all over the world and the extremist element has been increasing in relatively recent times. I think rather than creating this united enemy in our minds we should examine the role of the West in giving rise to terrorism.
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July 21, 2010 6:09pm
Robert Mapplethorpe

Jinpy, what you will never EVER get asshats like MikeNZ and Murray to admit is that Israel is a terrorist state, conceived in terror, born of terror and sustained by terror.

Israel must cease to exist before there can be peace in the ME.
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July 21, 2010 6:28pm
Fiona

I watched Duncan Garner tonight for the first time in a while. Does TV3 have a clothing expense policy? He sure has grown out of the suit he was wearing tonight. Must be an annual expense payment. He could unbutton it, but then maybe that would reveal a different issue.
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July 21, 2010 6:42pm
RightNow

Actually Mapplethorpe, Israel is home to her rightful indigenous people – the Jews. They took it back through superior strategy and fire-power, and I reckon they’ll keep it the same way. In the meantime idiots like yourself keep supporting the terrorists that keep trying to wipe it off the map.
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July 21, 2010 6:49pm
Hurf Durf

Israel is a terrorist state, conceived in terror, born of terror and sustained by terror.

Israel must cease to exist before there can be peace in the ME.

Ladies and gentlemen, the left wing!
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July 21, 2010 6:52pm
Robert Mapplethorpe

RightNow, what “rightful indigenous people” would they be? The polish jews? Russian Jews? The traditional home of the Jews is Egypt.
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July 21, 2010 6:53pm
Caleb

Robert just opened himself an SIS profile.
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July 21, 2010 6:58pm
RightNow

Egypt huh? What’s the traditional home of the Maori in your world Mapplethorpe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_Israel_Judea_926_BC-fr.svg
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July 21, 2010 7:04pm
Caleb

Its easy for the bitter left to hate Israel.

Smart, Rich, Religious, Patriotic, Beautiful women….
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July 21, 2010 7:07pm
Hurf Durf

Heh, RightNow, at least it makes a nice change from the likes of him telling Jews to go back to Poland.
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July 21, 2010 7:09pm
WebWrat

Some reading material for the lemmings.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/
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July 21, 2010 7:12pm
side show bob

“The traditional home of the Jews is Egypt”. Well what a damn shame they didn’t keep advancing once they controlled the Sinai Peninsula, that would have got the towel heads squawking and made old Robert even happier, lefty dribbler would be in heaven, something to really moan about.
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July 21, 2010 7:16pm
Hurf Durf

What’s the difference between a Prog and a dog turd?

A dog turd is inherently more likable.
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July 21, 2010 7:20pm
Hurf Durf

How many Progs does it take to change a light bulb?

They don’t, they sit in the dark because artificial light hurts Muvver Earf.
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July 21, 2010 7:26pm
RightNow

Seems like a good time to repost this: http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001127.html

Nice new shopping mall in Gaza, Olympic swimming pool (in spite of an alleged shortage of concrete and water), luxury hotels, fine dining. They’re really suffering there (if you believe the liberal media).
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July 21, 2010 7:29pm
RightNow

In Turkey, life expectancy is 72.23 and infant mortality is 24.84 per 1,000 births.

In Gaza, life expectancy is 73.68 and infant mortality is 17.71 per 1,000 births.

Turkey has a literacy rate of 88.7% while in Gaza it is 91.9%. (It is much lower in Egypt and other Arab countries where Israel did not establish colleges and universities in the 1970s and 1980s.)

Gaza’s GDP is almost as high as Turkey’s and much, much higher than most of Africa that gets 1,000th of the aid per capita that Gaza gets from the West.

(Source for above info: CIA World Factbook)
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July 21, 2010 7:30pm
Robert Mapplethorpe

Yep, as long as people can go to the mall their lives are perfect.
\
And RightNow, your link contains a virus. Fucking rifghtwing asshats.
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July 21, 2010 7:32pm
RightNow

Heh, that’s a filter for dickheads, not a virus.

Try this, it’s asshat friendly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxaDmAyt84g&feature=player_embedded
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July 21, 2010 7:34pm
Hurf Durf

Did you say Liberal Media, RightNow? Have I got a shock for you!

It was the moment of greatest peril for then-Sen. Barack Obama’s political career. In the heat of the presidential campaign, videos surfaced of Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, angrily denouncing whites, the U.S. government and America itself. Obama had once bragged of his closeness to Wright. Now the black nationalist preacher’s rhetoric was threatening to torpedo Obama’s campaign.

The crisis reached a howling pitch in mid-April, 2008, at an ABC News debate moderated by Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos. Gibson asked Obama why it had taken him so long – nearly a year since Wright’s remarks became public – to dissociate himself from them. Stephanopoulos asked, “Do you think Reverend Wright loves America as much as you do?”

Watching this all at home were members of Journolist, a listserv comprised of several hundred liberal journalists, as well as like-minded professors and activists. The tough questioning from the ABC anchors left many of them outraged. “George [Stephanopoulos],” fumed Richard Kim of the Nation, is “being a disgusting little rat snake.”

Others went further. According to records obtained by The Daily Caller, at several points during the 2008 presidential campaign a group of liberal journalists took radical steps to protect their favored candidate. Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.

In one instance, Spencer Ackerman of the Washington Independent urged his colleagues to deflect attention from Obama’s relationship with Wright by changing the subject. Pick one of Obama’s conservative critics, Ackerman wrote, “Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.”

First in a series. Here’s the next part. What’s that you were saying about media bias, Dr Joe Atkinson?
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July 21, 2010 7:40pm
RightNow

Yeah Hurf, it really shows up the hypocrisy of the lefties. I read allegations about the Journolist a while ago, and am pleasantly surprised that some evidence has actually come to light. I like how Fox News is improving it’s ratings while the lefty parrots are losing theirs. Not all the audience are as stupid as Mapplethorpe.
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July 21, 2010 7:52pm
RightNow

From your second link Hurf: ““I am genuinely scared” of Fox, wrote Guardian columnist Daniel Davies, because it “shows you that a genuinely shameless and unethical media organisation *cannot* be controlled by any form of peer pressure or self-regulation, and nor can it be successfully cold-shouldered or ostracised”

They should have sought advice from Mann and the hockey-team on how to peer pressure, cold-shoulder and ostracise anyone with opposing views.
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July 21, 2010 7:56pm
RightNow

And I love this part of a comment left there:

“Even now, their pompous pimpled posteriors are perched on ergonomic high-back Italian leather chairs frantically typing another muddled, bulleted plan of putrid propaganda.”
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July 21, 2010 7:59pm
side show bob

Shit Robert you better get over to Gaza quick smart, the poor buggers are deprived, didn’t see a WINZ office or a food bank in the whole video, what will these people do without these fine lefty institutions?
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July 21, 2010 8:00pm
Pete George

Talking of ostracising anyone with opposing views – a glimmer of hope in the Senate?

Lindsey Graham stands apart from other Republican senators on Kagan vote

He reminded his colleagues that “no one spent more time trying to beat President Obama than I did, except maybe Senator McCain.” But “President Obama won,” he said, and “the Constitution in my view puts a requirement on me as a senator to not replace my judgment for his, not to think of the 100 reasons I would pick somebody differently or pick a fight with Ms. Kagan.”

“Objectively speaking, things are changing, and they’re unnerving to me. It is our obligation to honor elections” — an obligation that led him to vote “yes” for Kagan. “It would not have been someone I would have chosen,” he said, “but the person who did choose, President Obama, I think chose wisely.”

Across the table, Dick Durbin, the second-ranking Democrat in the Senate, took Graham’s words to heart. “During the course of his statement,” he said, “I reflected on some of the things that I have said and how I’ve voted in the past and thought that perhaps his statement suggested there was a better course for many of us to consider in the future.”

It may be a forlorn hope, or it might be the start of a turning of the tide against partisan anti-countryism.
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July 21, 2010 8:01pm
tom hunter

Hurf

The Journolist story first emerged on the blogs a few months ago, but at that stage there was not much to go on apart from parts of the list itself, the names of a few journalists, and portions of emails.

Sounds like the ball is really rolling on this now. I saw that Andrew Breitbart had offered $100,000 to anyone who would provide more emails, perhaps someone finally decided to get the reward. There were two quotes I really liked: the first from Katha Pollitt at The Nation

“I hear you. but I am really tired of defending the indefensible. The people who attacked Clinton on Monica were prissy and ridiculous, but let me tell you it was no fun, as a feminist and a woman, waving aside as politically irrelevant and part of the vast rightwing conspiracy Paula, Monica, Kathleen, Juanita,”

Yeah, yeah Katha, but as a leftie you have to look at the bigger picture – keeping the Dems in power, moderately useless in your eyes though they undoubtedly are.

But the crown jewel is this one from asshole Akerman:

What is necessary is to raise the cost on the right of going after the left. In other words, find a rightwinger’s [sic] and smash it through a plate-glass window. Take a snapshot of the bleeding mess and send it out in a Christmas card to let the right know that it needs to live in a state of constant fear. Obviously I mean this rhetorically.

Obviously. Just as it’s “obvious” to Ackerman that ignoring what the Reverend Wright issue said about Obama’s core beliefs or (cough) priniciples, trumped having to put up with natural racist warmongers running the country – “bigger issues” – again.

I’d pay good money to be in a bar when journalist Fred Barnes runs into Ackerman. Let’s hope the latter is not sitting near a plate-glass window. The result might not be rhetorical.
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July 21, 2010 8:04pm
Hurf Durf

Tom, relax, he just meant it rhetorically. It’s not grevious bodily harm-grevious bodily harm.
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July 21, 2010 8:15pm
francis

wow. every time Israel comes up, the earwigs come out in force. Even ardent Zionists can discuss the situation of Palestinians with some degree of grace but the reverse seems never to be the case.
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July 21, 2010 8:56pm

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