General Debate 21 September 2010

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Puzzled in Ekatahuna

First

As drink/drive law has been discussed often here, with DPF suggesting proof is needed before dropping the level of 8 to 5, please see –

Cost of booze law delay revealed
The Government turned its back on hundreds of pages of official advice urging a lower drink-driving limit, including a claim that up to 33 lives and $238 million would be saved each year.
The papers, released under the Official Information Act, show the Government was told that lowering the limit was the best action it could take to cut the number of people killed by drunk drivers.
“Without introducing change, it is likely that the number of alcohol-related road deaths and serious injuries will continue to rise,” the Transport Ministry advice states. “It is clear the current approach to drink-driving will not reduce the level of fatalities.”
Last year, road crashes involving alcohol killed 137 people and caused 565 serious injuries at a social cost of $875m.
The Government was told that, based on data in about 300 international studies, a lower limit would save up to 33 lives and prevent up to 686 injuries each year. Aside from social cost savings of between $111m and $238m a year, ACC expected additional savings of up to $94.5m on claims.
There was no support for the option the Government chose – more research on the limit.
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4148083/Cost-of-booze-law-delay-revealed

also –
“Late last week, the bill that officials recommended should lower the limit passed its first reading in Parliament.”
– so there is still time for change.

The Government wanted public support for a reduction from 8 to 5. Subsequent polls indicate they have it. If the Government do not believe this, TEST IT – conduct another poll if need be – it may be an inexpensive move, considering a possible saving of $ 875 million.

This is the type of issue ACT has argued in the past should be made by the public, not by politicians, and their current position proves their point.
Poll us.
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September 21, 2010 9:52am
Pete George

A High Court judgment rejecting Auckland property developer Andrew Krukziener’s appeal against the tax authority will send shivers down the spine of some taxpayers”

“The court seems to be applying a ‘smell’ test and is saying that no taxpayer can have numerous profitable ventures, receive $5 million over the course of a decade, and still have no tax to pay.”

How many other business bludgers are there? Are they any worse than benefit bludgers?
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September 21, 2010 9:56am
krazykiwi

@Puzzled – If we had a lower limit than we do today we’d still be reading this type of reporting. The ‘lower limit saves x‘ analysis is a blunt instrument in that fails to include the loss of benefit that would be experienced by the vast majority of responsbile alcohol consumers.
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September 21, 2010 9:59am
Jack5

Gerry Brownlee and his MED sidekicks are off on their mineral bonanza kick again.

Pattrick Smellie reports in today’s Christchurch Press Brownlee, as Energy Minister, has been talking to the Petroleum Conference. Others have been talking about the vast possibilities of sea-floor resources on NZ’s large ocean exclusive economic zone.

Brownlee is hammering the promise of hydrates on the floor of NZ’s zone.

What bullshit they are feeding us. Brownlee is talking about methane hydrates (methane clathrates), which you can read about in detail in the Wikipedia link below. They are widespread around the world, and being bulky will be harvested, if ever, from deposits nearer the great industrial users of the world. Here’s a piece from the Wikipedia article hihglighting the economic problems:

The sedimentary methane hydrate reservoir probably contains 2–10 times the currently known reserves of conventional natural gas. This represents a potentially important future source of hydrocarbon fuel. However, in the majority of sites deposits are likely to be too dispersed for economic extraction. Other problems facing commercial exploitation are detection of viable reserves; and development of the technology for extracting methane gas from the hydrate deposits. To date, there has only been one field commercially produced where some of the gas is thought to have been from methane clathrates, Messoyakha Gas Field, supplying the nearby Russian city of Norilsk.

Brownlee and the MED hype about ocean floor minerals will also extend to petroleum, ignoring that most finds around NZ are of gas, and in size too small for a hugely expensive liquefaction plant ashore, and with insufficient markets ashore for small deposits, thanks to the prejudice against generation electricity from gas. Doubtless, the sea-floor phosphate on the sea floor of NZ’s Chatham Rise will also be trumpeted. However a recent business magazine article noted that there would be a long way to go to assess whether this would be suitable for NZ agriculture, and whether it would thus be economic.

As in our gold rush days of old, there’s a helluva lot more hype than solid profit out there.

The message is when Brownlee talks mineral riches, take it in with two tablespoonsful of salt.

The Wikipedia piece on hydrates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_hydrates
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September 21, 2010 9:59am
Redbaiter

“so there is still time for change.”

Drink driving is an issue designed to distract us while the socialist elite work to entrench themselves in positions of control. We need to cut staff in the Ministry of Transport by 80%, not succumb to their self serving and dodgy scientific studies that always fail when subject to objective investigation. Take your lame subjugation to powerful government back to Ekatahuna and if you are so afraid of driving then TAKE THE DAMN BUS.
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September 21, 2010 10:00am
Inventory2

If lowering the BAC was such an issue for Darren Hughes, why was he not able to convince his caucus colleagues to enact legislation during Labour’s term in office. It all seems just a bit opportunist …
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September 21, 2010 10:03am
MikeG

I agree PiE, but you could at least spell the name of the northern Wairarapa town correctly!
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September 21, 2010 10:03am
bhudson

Note that the recommendations are based on studies of international data re: impact of a reduction from 0.08 to 0.05. The (perhaps a bit vague) local information suggests such a shift might have saved 12 lives over 10 years in NZ – nothing like the international claims.

Hence why the govt is calling for more local research and empowering agencies to collect specific data on drivers tested between 0.05-0.08 in NZ – to assess the true impact of such a change in NZ.

It would seem a very sensible approach. Rather that than a knee jerk reaction which may have significant implications for our otherwise law abiding citizens while generating little real benefit
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September 21, 2010 10:03am
RightNow

Jack5, while I won’t get all excited thinking there’s a gold rush waiting to be found, I strongly favour assessing whether there are viable mineral deposits we can exploit.
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September 21, 2010 10:04am
krazykiwi

Anyone see John Key talking down MMP yesterday?
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September 21, 2010 10:05am
Redbaiter

“Are they any worse than benefit bludgers?”

What did he take from my pocket?
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September 21, 2010 10:08am
Inventory2

@ krazykiwi – to be fair to Key, this is one area in which he has been consistent. It was National Party policy pre-election 2008 to hold a referendum. The points he makes about public perception of MMP in the wake of the Act debacle are well made and could equally apply to the Maori Party, NZ First, Jim Anderton and Peter Dunne.
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September 21, 2010 10:08am
James Stephenson

Why can’t we actually get some value out of another useless ineffective piece of legislation-for-the-sake-of-it and microchip recidivist drunk drivers?
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September 21, 2010 10:08am
Redbaiter

“Anyone see John Key talking down MMP yesterday?”

Rich for him to talk about “mandates”. Would he even be PM if during his election campaign, he had told the truth about his obsession to relegate every NZer other than so called Maori to second class status.
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September 21, 2010 10:11am
krazykiwi

@IV2 – Yes I agree he’s being consistent. FWIW I’m no longer supportive of MMP, and think we need a completely new system.. not just a referrendum on ‘do we like MMP’ which is apparently what we’re up for. [Oh, hope you enjoyed the football in Wgtn the other night… a ripper goal to seal the win!]
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September 21, 2010 10:14am
MyNameIsJack

Redbaiter (11,431) Says:

September 21st, 2010 at 10:08 am
“Are they any worse than benefit bludgers?”

What did he take from my pocket?

The point is not what he took from your pocket, the point is that by not paying HIS share, we all have to pay more for your benefit.

Just tell the truth.
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September 21, 2010 10:17am
Murray

Like all socialists jackboot sees taking other peoples money as being a virtue.
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September 21, 2010 10:22am
Redbaiter

“Just tell the truth.”

Rich coming from a despicable lowlife who can’t even abide by the simple rules that allow blog discussions to remain coherent, and posts fake messages using the names of other commenters. Let alone the deceit of using a half dozen names to post your own messages. You cannot ever play with a straight bat, and for example, each comma in your sentence above signals the end of another lie. Go away. I get nauseous just responding to your repugnant low IQ bullshit.
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September 21, 2010 10:25am
MyNameIsJack

… posts fake messages using the names of other commenters

And your proof of this is…?

Just tell the truth.
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September 21, 2010 10:45am
TimG_Oz

MNIJ – how was your trip back to the Western Suburbs of Melbourne to see the Rellies? Didn’t you forget that it was your billyborker persona that was the Australian Bulldogs supporter?

Should DPF add the demerits for billyborker and MNIJ? Are there other personas?
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September 21, 2010 10:51am
MyNameIsJack

TimG_Oz (438) Says:

September 21st, 2010 at 10:51 am
MNIJ – how was your trip back to the Western Suburbs of Melbourne to see the Rellies? Didn’t you forget that it was your billyborker persona that was the Australian Bulldogs supporter?

Sorry, no rellies the Western suburbs of Melbourne; there is no Vietnamese or North African in my parentage.

Should DPF add the demerits for billyborker and MNIJ? Are there other personas?

OK guv, fair cop, you got me.

I own up to multiple personalities,

I am MynameIsJack, Petie Petie Alamagheeti, John’s Key and Speewah Mick. My name is legion.
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September 21, 2010 10:58am
Murray

Like all socialists jackboot is full of shit.
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September 21, 2010 11:02am
krazykiwi

@TimG_Oz – MyNameIsJack, LeftRightOut, BillyBorker, StanZemanek, Alex Burns, Fugley are the personas I know about.

MNIJ seems to be pretty keen on “the truth”… so perhaps DPF could confirm if “Gary Jeffrey” MNIJ’s real name as claimed? I suspect it’s not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Piesse
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September 21, 2010 11:03am
eszett

# Inventory2 (5,087) Says:
September 21st, 2010 at 10:08 am

@ krazykiwi – to be fair to Key, this is one area in which he has been consistent. It was National Party policy pre-election 2008 to hold a referendum. The points he makes about public perception of MMP in the wake of the Act debacle are well made and could equally apply to the Maori Party, NZ First, Jim Anderton and Peter Dunne.

The Maori Party, Jim and Peter all came in on electorate seats and would be there probably regardless of the electoral system in one form or the other.

The implosion of ACT poses a problem for National as that they don’t have a partner on the right to capture enough votes to form a potential government. The only option is to capture a majority of votes which is unlikely (they could get a majority of the seats though without getting the absolute majority of votes but still have to come pretty close to 50%)

So naturally National will want a different system.
If you can’t get a majority of seats because you can’t get a majority of votes, change the system where you can.
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September 21, 2010 11:09am
Murray

His actual name is Andre Linoge.
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September 21, 2010 11:10am
malcolm

Krazykiwi, sorry i didn’t reply to you yesterday. I got busy and then when I tried in the evening I was getting the database connection error. I’ll send DPF an email as it’s been happening for the last couple of day.

Anyway it was an off-topic off-topic. Still don’t be too hard on those childless couples – their net contribution is probably higher than all those NZ families where the adult children have decamped permanently to Aust/UK/US 🙂
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September 21, 2010 11:12am
Ed Snack

Puzzled, look at DPF’s latest post on the mendacity of the Ministry of Transport. Assuming David is correct, then almost all of those involved in fatal accidents with a blood alcohol level between .05 and .08 are under 25, and therefore already illegal under the law ! Thus they’re already driving illegally, in what way would any reduction in limits for older drivers affect this group ?

I haven’t personally checked the numbers given by our host, but assume that they are correct. Then the Ministry of Transport officers responsible for the advice are utterly dishonest and should (a) be fired for misleading parliament and the public; and (b) make ALL of their advice suspect until thoroughly checked. How could you trust people who so willingly mislead ? The Media and the other cheerleaders for the change need to be quizzed as well, they are guilty of promoting the same dishonesty. Shame on the the lot.
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September 21, 2010 11:13am
Pauleastbay

Glad to see the teachers are concerned about my kids rather than themselves, seems like they are only going to strike 8 more times this year.

I hope that Tolley has the nuts not to appease and tells the PPTA to ‘Fuck Off” , strike as much as you want but you won’t get a cent, nothing. These are the teachers that currently have 3 months a year with holidays, “teacher only days ” WTF these are, and strike days.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/4148068/Teachers-set-dates-for-eight-more-strikes
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September 21, 2010 11:22am
Inventory2

Nice to see that Andrew Little’s third hat has been confirmed …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/09/two-hats-becomes-three-hats.html
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September 21, 2010 11:29am
malcolm

If anyone is interested in collapsing stadium roofs, the Invercargill one has reminded me of a most excellent book I stole from my brother:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Buildings-Fall-Down-Structures/dp/039331152X

It’s a math-free engineering book and very interesting. There’s a whole chapter on collapsing stadiums. Which are surprisingly common.
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September 21, 2010 11:31am
Pauleastbay

IV2

Yep Mr Personality is on the election trail.

Imagine the party resources he’ll be able to plunder to campaign, he’ll make Len brown look like and amatuer
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September 21, 2010 11:34am
MyNameIsJack

Murray (6,038) Says:

September 21st, 2010 at 11:10 am
His actual name is Andre Linoge.

No, its actually Keyser Söze.
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September 21, 2010 11:38am
dad4justice

^^ One seriously disturbed individual!
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September 21, 2010 11:40am
starboard

A 99-year-old woman who was allegedly sexually attacked by a neighbour died in hospital just after her 100th birthday without returning home, a court was told yesterday.

Glen Patrick Joseph Walsh, 22, went on trial in Palmerston North District Court accused of indecently assaulting Thelma Lawrence, and injuring her with intent
In a statement to police, Mrs Lawrence said she got out of bed to answer knocking on the door.

When she partially opened the door, Walsh went in, pushed her to the ground and punched her.

She told police Walsh tried to pull her underwear down and touched her “all over”.

…What a fucken creep this bastard is. She died because of his cretinous actions..he needs to die as well. Bring back ‘ole sparky. Rot in hell you scumbag…
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September 21, 2010 11:46am
Redbaiter

“Bring back ‘ole sparky.”

Damn right.
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September 21, 2010 11:49am
nickb

greedy fuckers alright Paul.

If it could be shown that the PPTA was doing ANYTHING to ensure that our teachers were high-performing, mayeb I wold have more sympathy.

But who else has had an 8%(?) rise over the last 2 years?
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September 21, 2010 11:59am
kowtow

Starboard ;
I saw that shit on the news last night and that is what I think he deserves. Gallows or firing squad would be my preferred option.
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September 21, 2010 12:14pm
starboard

I dont hold out much hope. When you only get 6 years for murdering a prison officer doing his job , what are the chances of an old lady getting any justice. Countries a joke. Justice system is a joke…smile and wave..its ok.
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September 21, 2010 12:23pm
bhudson

kowtow,

If the gallows were an option, then perhaps the noose could be fastened around his testicles and not his neck? [Assuming he is found guilty of course – Presumed innocent and all that important stuff…]
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September 21, 2010 12:30pm
DJP6-25

School kids don’t vote, so why would “teacher unions” give a damm about them. Nobody should hold their breath waithing for National to “get tough” with them. If it gets too hard, ‘smile and wave’ will just abandon standards and Anne Tolley.

cheers

David Prosser
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September 21, 2010 12:33pm
kowtow

bhudson
A couple of weeks ago Al Jazeera showed mobile phone footage taken in a police station in Manila of a naked robber (alledged)lying on the floor with a rope or some such tied around his goolies.

Police chief sitting on chair tugging evry now and again,robber in agony.

Can you believe this was filmed? Maybe by the chief’s deputy looking for promotion?

Any way robber found dead later. Chief on charges. World wide outrage? No,it wasn’t LA and the victim wasn’t Rodney King.

Tell you what though,if the robber had survived his ordeal,I think he’d think twice about robbing again.
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September 21, 2010 12:47pm
bereal

When will you blokes realise MNIJ is playing you like puppets.
Red baiter, Krazy Kiwi, TimG etc everytime you respond to his pathetic posts he loves it.
Try some restraint and ignore him for a few days and he will dissapear.
He is better at ruining a discussion than philu was.
He must sit there all day just waiting for some one to bite.
You must be smarter than fish.
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September 21, 2010 12:50pm
jackp

Starboard, that prisoner that murdered the prison officer got manslaughter. He didn’t intentionally kill the guard with a family. The big problem here is that there are only two types of killings, one is premediated and the other is manslaughter. How about second degree murder… New Zealand doesn’t have that but it is sorely needed. People are getting killed and the offender keeps getting manslaughter. Like the kid that kicked the principal in the head, killing him. He got 3 years. John Key was suppose to fix this up with or without Act’s support. Parliament is in its own world doing back room deals for their vested interests. The taxpayer isn’t worth anything. I think it is time to get a binding referendum going. If the public were to vote directly to make the laws, Parliament would be looking over its shoulder. We could set the income of mp’s, abolish the perks, make the punishments harsher on criminals… make them work and take away their color tv’s. The list in endless, oh, and repeal the anti-smacking law., let the parent be the decision maker for abortions if their 14 year old girl is pregnant, etc, etc. New Zealand is the size of a small city. There isn’t any reason why this can’t be done..
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September 21, 2010 12:58pm
hj

A tour guide from HK told me a lot of her pax have been vacating the tour in Auckland where they (women) can earn “$800 per night tax free”. She said she gets scrutinised by immigration (as though she was part of the operation – but she isn’t). She knows instantly who it is on her tour who is likely to bail out by looking at how long they have lived in HK (I forget the details -and language issue).
On another matter if the police collated the licences of people who hire rental vans we might see who else is working here tax free.
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September 21, 2010 1:44pm
wreck1080

These teachers are bonkers. They seem to think they deserve bigger pay rises than every one else.

Do teachers not understand that they are not the only hard workers in the country.

Quite unbelievable. I think it’s time people who know teachers start to personally tell them to pull their heads in.

I’m disgusted with teachers right now.
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September 21, 2010 1:45pm
krazykiwi

Cash starved socialists at work in the UK. Proposing more tax carbon and then giving low income earners tax breaks to compensate.

UK motorists and holidaymakers face ‘green tax’ rise of £800

Motorists and holidaymakers face paying hundreds of pounds a year more in green taxes to help low earners, Chris Huhne has signalled.

The Energy Secretary backed plans to increase environmental levies by £15 billion to free hundreds of thousands of people from income tax. He is already drawing up proposals for the proportion of government revenue raised by environmental taxes to jump from 7.7 per cent to 10 per cent within five years, from £35 billion annually to around £50 billion.

The increase is equivalent to an extra £800 from every taxpayer.
At present, most of the money from green taxes – around £26 billion – comes through fuel duty. Drivers would be forced to pay an extra 30p for a litre of petrol if all the extra revenue were raised that way. Taxes on plane tickets, which currently bring in about £1 billion a year, could also go up, sources close to Mr Huhne said.

The Energy Secretary, who addresses the Liberal Democrat conference tomorrow, told delegates today that he had not yet determined where extra green taxes would fall, and asked them for ideas. But insiders confirmed that, realistically, such a large increase would come largely from carbon duty – meaning more pain for motorists and holidaymakers.
[…]
Speaking at the Lib Dem conference in Liverpool, he made his views clear by supporting a motion from delegates which proposed that green taxes should account for 10 per cent of Government revenue. In a bid to appeal to Left-wingers concerned that the Coalition is doing little to help low-earners, he suggested increasing the income tax threshold at the same time.
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September 21, 2010 2:34pm
Redbaiter

“I’m disgusted with teachers right now.”

What took you so long. They’re the ones at the coal face disseminating all of the damn socialist and racist propaganda emanating from Central Soviet Control in Wellington to our children, and they’re doing so at the expense of a real education and its been LIKE THIS FOR DECADES..!!!.
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September 21, 2010 2:40pm
kowtow

jackp;
the max for manslaughter is life.
Judges ,politicians and society at large does not seem to have the balls for real justice.
Redbaiter often comments along the lines of the left having captured the establishment .I agree with him . Since the’60’s we have lost it. And “progressivism” marches on relentlessly,while the traditional West sleep walks into oblivion.
I agree with the referendum idea.But the political elites hate letting the people decide their own fates in our modern democracies.
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September 21, 2010 2:44pm
MyNameIsJack

Redbaiter (11,457) Says:

September 21st, 2010 at 2:40 pm

What took you so long. They’re the ones at the coal face disseminating all of the damn socialist and racist propaganda emanating from Central Soviet Control in Wellington to our children, and they’re doing so at the expense of a real education and its been LIKE THIS FOR DECADES..!!!.

Stop lying red, where’s your proof?

Just tell the truth.
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September 21, 2010 2:47pm
Pete George

Mr Boscawen said he attended a meeting with former ACT deputy Heather Roy and founder Sir Roger Douglas before the last election to convince Mr Garrett to stand for Parliament.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4149679/ACT-hoses-down-leadership-speculation

So it seems that all the others were involved, that takes some of the responsibility off Hide, but spreads it across the others. Why did they have to cherry pick a crab apple?
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September 21, 2010 2:49pm
Nookin

Wasn’t Keyser Soze an evil murdering bastard who shafted all his mates in The Usual Suspects? Wonder why anyone would have an affinity for that name.
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September 21, 2010 2:57pm
MikeNZ

$100m to Human Rights Watch is not chicken feed, what must they do for the doner ?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/247022/soros-s-anti-human-rights-agenda-anne-bayefsky

But corrupt governments in developing countries, Communist regimes, and the despotic rulers of Arab and Islamic states pushed back. Under the guise of protecting their sovereignty and natural resources from the ravages of Western imperialism, they commandeered the United Nations, disputed its foundational human-rights framework, and rolled out new and improved “human rights,” such as the right to development, the right of peoples to “international solidarity,” and the right to be free of “the adverse effects of toxic wastes.” No matter that the beneficiaries of such rights were essentially governments and not individuals, or that the rights of women and minorities were then trampled for the sake of maintaining a united front against the West

As human rights were being rewritten, the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch wrongly believed it had only two options. It could find itself defending the governments of the United States, Israel, and other allegedly colonialist-imperialist regimes — a tack that seemed to be at odds with the mandate of a human-rights NGO, for which governments are supposedly the adversaries by definition. Or it could join the party, trash Israel and America, and prove its bona fides on the world stage
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September 21, 2010 3:59pm
Rex Widerstrom

jackp notes:

The big problem here is that there are only two types of killings, one is premediated and the other is manslaughter. How about second degree murder… New Zealand doesn’t have that but it is sorely needed.

There have been attempts to introduce this to NZ but they’ve failed as our omniscient betters in Parliament have decided it wasn’t necessary. The attempt I recall most vividly, because I was on the scene at the time, was the Degrees of Murder Bill in 1996.

It defined as “murder in the first degree” as a culpable homicide that is intended and is committed in a particularly sadistic, heinous, malicious or inhuman manner. So in the example starboard has cited of the Palmerston North case, unless the prosecution could prove that the offender intended the outcome of his actions should be the death of his victim, he would likely be guily of second degree murder, which would have been defined in the same terms as the existing definitions of murder.

Murder in the third degree would have been homicide committed under provocation or the influence of alcohol or drugs. But we’ve already explicitly done away with this in a knee jerk “let’s look tough on crime” reaction to a single case. And that sort of narrow, stupid thinking is why we don’t have degrees of murder and, ironically, deny ourselves the ability to more harshly punish first degree cases.

Manslaughter would have been defined as culpable homicide not amounting to murder in the first, second, or third degree.

First degree murder would attract a mandatory penalty of life imprisonment. Second degree murder would attract a mandatory penalty of life imprisonment and be subject to the existing parole provisions. Third degree murder would attract a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

Manslaughter would attract a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment.

The Bill would also have permitted the jury in a homicide case to make recommendations about the length of sentence and the terms and conditions of an offender’s detention and parole. The judge would have been required to have regard to the jury’s recommendations.

Personally, I think there needs to be a provision in the definition of second degree murder that says even if the homicide wasn’t intentional, if the act that brought about the death of the victim was particularly heinous and/or was committed against a particularly vulnerable victim (both of which are true in the PN case) then that would be enough to define the offence as second degree murder because death was a foreseeable outcome of a particularly serious criminal act.

If the offender in the PN case claimed (and could prove to have been) under the influence of drugs or alcohol then it becomes third degree murder.

To charge a person committing a crime who causes death as a result with manslaughter – the same charge as someone faces when they’ve taken a life through inattention, tomfoolery, or other non-malicious act – is just ridiculous.

But regardless of where we draw the lines, the idea needs to be revived and the politicians told that’s what we want.
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September 21, 2010 4:07pm
starboard

Starboard, that prisoner that murdered the prison officer got manslaughter

..yup I realise that but I still call it murder…lawyers/lawmakers can dress it up and call it what they want…but I call it murder..through his actions a man has died..deliberate or not…the prick should have got life no parole as a minimum.

“John Key was suppose to fix this up with or without Act’s support. Parliament is in its own world doing back room deals for their vested interests. The taxpayer isn’t worth anything”

…good ‘ole JK and his sticky mates…they are all the same , looking after themselves and their interests at the expense of Joe Public…dont worry next election there will be more than just a few off us sending him and his ilk a message.
He, they have done nothin for us in the last 3 years..obviously Im not colour off the month…and sucking up with the filthy racist party makes me wana puke…bastards…
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September 21, 2010 4:17pm
TimG_Oz

MyNameIsJack: Today:

Sorry, no rellies the Western suburbs of Melbourne; there is no Vietnamese or North African in my parentage.

From:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/08/general_debate_21_august_2010.html#comment-731442

MyNameIsJack (1,538) Says:
August 21st, 2010 at 6:34 pm

Just back from visiting the grandkids in Oz (and voting for Julia, how could I not when we are both Footscray tragics?) and the first face I see on TV is Paula “who ate all the pies” Bennet. Jesusonajetski, the woman is almost as big as Parakura Horrieforlunchforme!

So did you accidently forget to login as billyborker on August 21??
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September 21, 2010 4:31pm
MyNameIsJack

Wrong again, Timmie Boy.

As I said, no rellies in Melbourne’s West. My grand kids are in Adelaide. And Melbourne’s North, but she was in Adelaide this visit.

Nice try, no banana.

But jesusinavivisectionlab, you sure have a good line in stalking, or do you save all my posts?
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September 21, 2010 4:44pm
Don the Kiwi

“ we are both Footscray trajics.”

Aint that the truth. Only time from what I can see.
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September 21, 2010 4:56pm
Pete George

An interesting character.

Christine O’Donnell, the Republican nominee seeking Delaware’s open Senate seat, said on Bill Maher’s “Politically Incorrect” in 1999: “I dabbled into witchcraft. I never joined a coven. One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn’t know it. I mean, there’s a little blood there and stuff like that,” she said.

If she is seen to have Christianised enough since then that shouldn’t damage her on the right, hard to say what the independents will think.

Fox News’s O’Reilly Factor. as part of a debate on stem cell research on Nov. 15, 2007:

O’REILLY: Everybody knows that scientists have enough knowledge to clone a human being if they wanted to.

O’DONNELL: Right.

O’REILLY: But they’re not, at least not that we know of. And now they’re in the monkey realm. And I don’t understand, if that’s the possibility that people might be cured, why the objection. Because I never buy the slippery slope….

O’DONNELL: By their own admission these groups admitted that the report that said, “Hey, yay, we cloned a monkey. Now we’re using this to start cloning humans.” We have to…

O’REILLY: Let them admit anything they want. But they won’t do that here in the United States unless all craziness is going on.

O’DONNELL: They are — they are doing that here in the United States. American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains. So they’re already into this experiment.

And that will appeal to a constituency too. Not surprising she impressed Palin. She’s got the looks, she’s got the voice, she’s got the crowd appeal. Have to see if she gets the Senate.
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September 21, 2010 4:56pm
krazykiwi

cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains

The Obama mystery is solved.
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September 21, 2010 5:23pm
bereal

TimG
the only thing MNIJ missed off his last post re you was, na,na nah na nah.
How much punishment are you going to cop?
I’m starting to think your as moronic as he is.
Wake up mate !
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September 21, 2010 5:28pm
Pauleastbay

From the Sydney Morning Herald
Christine O’Donnell is in a fantasy world. Literally. The pretty Palin Mini-Me identifies with the women of Middle Earth, comparing herself to the female characters in the Lord of the Rings novels by J.R.R. Tolkien.

“Look at the significance that he gives to Eowyn, the Lady of Rohan,” O’Donnell said on C-Span in 2003. “She was a warrior spirit and, to me, that’s who I love. I mean, I aspire to be soft and gentle like Arwen, but realistically, I’m a fighter, like Eowyn.”

Oh bloody dear,good tits and no brains, Obama could get back if this is the way the Republicans are going
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September 21, 2010 5:29pm
Viking2

Message from Len Brown country.

Police in Auckland just announced the discovery of an arms cache of 2,000 semi automatic rifles with 250,000 rounds of ammunition, 10 anti-tank missiles, 4 grenade launchers, 20 tonnes of heroin $50 million in forged NZ banknotes and 25 trafficked Thai prostitutes all in a semi- detached house behind the Public Library in Manukau.

Local residents were stunned !!

A community elder said,

“We’re shocked. We never knew we had a Library!!”
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September 21, 2010 5:33pm
krazykiwi

@bereal – Your concern is noted, however some of us enjoy toying with these morons … much like a cat enjoys playing with a mouse: it’s fun for a while, but if you can be bothered eating it, knowing that it will make a small, disagreeable meal 🙂
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September 21, 2010 5:33pm
bereal

krazykiwi. Thats fine but you havent twigged yet that you are the mouse.
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September 21, 2010 5:45pm
tom hunter

I wouldn’t eat it krazy – you never know where it’s been?
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September 21, 2010 5:46pm
lofty

@bereal,

MNIJ is just a bit of a plaything, as KK says, a mouse, in more ways than one.
He is fun to pat around the carpet, christ he cant even rememeber what is nom de plume is from day to day.
He was sprung yesterday and reacted with indecent anger, you cant tell me that is not fun on the web.

What do you say Paul????? ya lightweight. No wonder you are a political whore, never knowing what bed to stop in for a while.
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September 21, 2010 5:50pm
Repton

“Look at the significance that he gives to Eowyn, the Lady of Rohan,” O’Donnell said on C-Span in 2003. “She was a warrior spirit and, to me, that’s who I love. I mean, I aspire to be soft and gentle like Arwen, but realistically, I’m a fighter, like Eowyn.”

Maybe she’s better suited to Ioreth 🙂
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September 21, 2010 5:58pm
Jack5

Parker and Anderton are both solid as rock candidates for Mayor of Christchurch compared with Michael Hansen,who has been standing for local bodies and parliamentary electorates for most of his life. Hanson seldom gets as many as 20 votes but he bounces back. Elections are his life.

Hanson wants the police to hunt for a machine that he believes is pumping rays through walls. At the last election he was also pissed off about an unmarked plane buzzing his suburb.

Mike Riversdale had a good piece on him in his blog two years ago (link below). Hanson is standing again this year.

What great headlines if a miracle occurred and some processing stuff-up saw him elected: Death ray mayor runs NZ city.

The Riversdale link:

http://blog.mikeriversdale.co.nz/2007/10/local-elections-need-and-boy-o-boy-do.html
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September 21, 2010 6:05pm
Redbaiter

“From the Sydney Morning Herald”

Actually its not from the Sydney Morning Herald, its from Maureen Dowd, an extreme left coward who writes for the far left NYT. And here we go again, with the same knuckle dragging ignoramuses who have no other news sources but the main stream media jerking and nodding to the tune of their left wing masters. Completely ignorant of how they are being politically manipulated.

We’ll be subject to all kinds of deep dark stories from the background of any serious threat to Democrat/ Progressive power, while the background of the US President remains clouded in mystery and deceit and we never hear anything about the Democrats and their pasts.

And yet idiots like Pauleastbay Pete George and other various addle brained commies see no incongruity in this circumstance and happily trot out these pieces in awe and wonderment as their puppet masters command them to. Jerking and nodding and smiling their gape jawed smiles in their ignorant smugness just as surely as Saul Alinsky or George Soros was pulling their strings all the way from the USA.

Dumbarses who love being slaves. The totalitarian’s most valuable supporter.
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September 21, 2010 6:26pm
tristanb

TV3 have got it wrong again with percentage maths. Nowhere near as bad as the Labour Party flyer suggesting prices go up 15%. TV3 corrected them, implying that prices go up 2.5%.

Bring on maths standards for news editors. 1.15/1.125 = 1.02222 i.e. 2.2% increase.
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September 21, 2010 6:27pm
Pete George

They are on camera quotes Red, the mouse brain exchange was with the lefty old fox, Bill O’Reilly.

You must admit there are some slightly wacky interviews. Maybe she wouldn’t be out of place in the Labour GST publicity department.

Did you make your mind up about her straight away, a Tea Party slave, or will you see how she really stacks up?
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September 21, 2010 6:38pm
Pauleastbay

Red, you are loud mouthed and ignorant , really, you are beyond description. No one was trotting anything out in awe it was put up to show what clowns the republicians are stooping to, doing themselves no good at all, but you just carry on jumping to conclusions and making a total wanker of yourself as you do most days

The article was reprinted in the SMH and the quotes are direct from O’Donnell, who with comments comparing herself to a character in a fantasy novel would be as good a boost for Obama as he could get.

Work on your comb over and stop reading shit written by Glenn Beck.
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September 21, 2010 6:38pm
Redbaiter

“They are on camera quotes Red, the mouse brain exchange was with the lefty old fox, Bill O’Reilly.”

I read the stories days ago. You guys are just like like chooks in a battery being fed your corn from Farmer Brown.

BTW Paul- she may have won the Republican nomination but she is a Tea Party candidate and raised $2 million dollars (twice the target) in the last two days from donations.

Like the same old tools of the left you always are you don’t give one thought to policy and just as you dissed David Garret as your media elitist masters commanded, and you dissed Don Brash as your elitist media masters commanded, and so many other politicians who represented a threat to the ascendancy of Progressivism, so you will diss O’Donnell. Gape jawed easily manipulated morons without a brain cell between the lot of you.

No doubt you’ll cheer your ignorant heads off if O’Donnell’s avowed Marxist opponent and shady dealing crook wins the state.
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September 21, 2010 7:02pm
grumpyoldhori

I hope Garrett stays as a MP so as to show what an evil fucking bunch ACT is.
Just scum, knowing he stole a child’s identity yet the ACT MPs believe a person who would do that would make a fine MP.
Wonder when Garrett will be charged with perjury ?
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September 21, 2010 7:16pm
Pete George

So what if you read them days ago Red, they happened years ago. I’m interested but don’t care what happens there, won’t affect me. O’Donnell (and Palin) may do ok if they get into the offices they want, but it depends on a lot more than just them, no one acts alone at that level there. They may be little more than the fronts for a lot of interests.

You seem to have pinned all your hopes on the success of the Tea Party no matter what sort of candy floss they put up as candidates. Don’t be too disappointed if it turns out to be too much sugar and no substance.
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September 21, 2010 7:19pm
Redbaiter

Just for once PG, instead of robot like repetition of mainstream media talking points, why don’t you try and get some personal experience and use your own judgment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U54rZuLAumw

http://www.therightscoop.com/christine-odonnell-at-2010-values-voter-summit
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September 21, 2010 7:37pm
Pauleastbay

Red
If you think Garrett has one redeeming feature you are really tragic, all jokes aside.

Why as a country should we have to tolerate people with criminal convictions passing laws that effect us as citizens?

The majority of us live our lives without accurring convictions in our Courts, its not too much to ask that our MP’s are the same.

Obtaining that passport the way he did is so fucked it’s off the scale of even remotely reasonable behaviour.

There is someone standing for the Wellington regional Council who has a fraud conviction, I can’t say his name or I’ll get more demerits, but fraud is serious shit but this guy will more than likely get elected and have a say in how public monies are spent. So any talk of elitist media masters is tripe, like I said earlier even for you.

Also raising two million is not hard in the states, infact its pretty piss poor considering the resources avialable to the Republicans.

I agree with Grumpy, Palin part from being a damn fine looking 49 year old, is bloody scary when she may be running the free world.

I love chicks that hunt and look good but FFS she makes Dan Quayle look like a master of Quantum Physics. Surely the republicans can do better , surely,
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September 21, 2010 7:41pm
Redbaiter

Moron. I need my own head looked at for thinking reason is applicable.
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September 21, 2010 7:45pm
Pauleastbay

Fucked ah Red, take a pill and watch some Coronation Street, you’ll feel better in the morning
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September 21, 2010 7:47pm
krazykiwi

krazykiwi. Thats fine but you havent twigged yet that you are the mouse.

Ok, so a mouse with 6513 lives. Seeesh, the youth [bereal(15)] of today !!

@tristanb – excatly re TV3. Their maths is woeful!
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September 21, 2010 7:56pm
chiz

Jack5:Hanson seldom gets as many as 20 votes but he bounces back. Elections are his life.

Hanson wants the police to hunt for a machine that he believes is pumping rays through walls. At the last election he was also pissed off about an unmarked plane buzzing his suburb.

I’ve never seen hanson in the flesh but I’ve noticed his campaigns and occasional ads for some years. There are times when I wonder whether its all some sort of act and that he’s just doing it for the humour without actually believing it. On the other hand there are times when I wonder if he really does believe it all.
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September 21, 2010 8:06pm
Pete George

I know this will be of interest to some here:

NZ climate change warning
The most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Changes (IPCC) report projected a sea level rise this century of between 18cm-59cm, unless there is dramatic loss of Greenland and/or Antarctic ice.

But international researchers have now upped the ante with some noted academics picking rises of three times that, and some expecting the oceans to lift as much as 2.2m, according to an “emerging issues” paper released today by New Zealand’s science academy, the Royal Society.

“Recent estimates of future rise are greater than those assessed in previous IPCC reports,” the paper said, though it noted that uncertainty over melting and movement of polar ice sheets meant the estimates still had wide ranges.

“There have been a flood of new estimates of sea level rise,” said Prof Martin Manning, a drafting author of that most recent IPCC report.

Now director of Victoria University’s climate change research institute, he told a briefing for science journalists today that new analysis of the main contributing factors had shown loss of glaciers and ice sheets was playing a bigger role than was previously thought.

“Basically, all the new estimates are starting to push a bit higher,” he said.

“Some scientists think that Greenland is close to a ‘tipping point’,” Prof Manning said.

The Royal Society paper, which Prof Manning helped produce, noted that during a warm period 125,000 years ago, sea levels were 5m or more higher than at present, and there was evidence that the rise was at rates of more than 1.5m each century.

And really, I have no idea how much weight to put on this, although I’m not so stupid as to dismiss it out of hand.
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September 21, 2010 8:34pm
krazykiwi

@Pete, you lost me with IPCC …
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September 21, 2010 8:37pm
dad4justice

Hey petey gal most Canterbury EARthquake victims will tell you where you can insert your IPCC crap!
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September 21, 2010 8:41pm
RightNow

Pete, I have a feeling our actual sea level rise is on track for about 30cm this century. Even the wikipedia page for sea level rise makes this claim look suspect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
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September 21, 2010 8:57pm
Pete George

RightNow, if you look at the Greenland section of that wiki you’ll see that there are possible accelerations, that makes it difficult to be sure how fast, how soon things could happen. Of course the effects could also stall. This emerging issues paper just adds to the puzzles.
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September 21, 2010 9:01pm
RightNow

Oh wait, is this Victoria University here in Wellington? Damn Pete, that article is more alarming than I first thought.
Oh well, at least the IPCC have had their balls cut off.
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September 21, 2010 9:07pm
dime

“The Royal Society paper, which Prof Manning helped produce, noted that during a warm period 125,000 years ago, sea levels were 5m or more higher than at present, and there was evidence that the rise was at rates of more than 1.5m each century. ”

what were peeps doing 125,000 years ago? looks like they werent green enough!
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September 21, 2010 9:08pm
RightNow

Pete, it’s a shame the article doesn’t link or cite any references, but realistically I wouldn’t credit claims of 1.5m per century. Those sort of figures don’t pass a common sense test.
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September 21, 2010 9:10pm
Pete George

1.5m is a lot via incremental changes, but if the Greenland or West Antarctica Ice shelves do anything drastic in a hurry it could be more than that.

http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/2010/09/21/new-paper-on-sea-level-rise/

Emerging Issues – Sea Level Rise: http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/media/SLR-v4.9-for-web.pdf
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September 21, 2010 9:22pm
krazykiwi

NZ research shows Pacific islands not shrinking

At what time do we call bullshit on the historical claims of sea-level rises .. claims which have simply failed to materialise?

Now is a good time.
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September 21, 2010 9:28pm
Pete George

These are classified as recent predictions, from multiple sources, all of whom could be wrong, but so could a few blog posters.

Source/Sea level rise by 2100 (m)
Pfeffer 0.8 plausible (2.0 maximum possible)
Rahmstorf 0.5 – 1.4
Horton 0.5 – 1.0
Grinstead 0.3 – 2.2
Vermeer 0.75 – 1.9
Jevrejeva 0.6 – 1.6
Table 2: Recent scientific projections of sea level rise by 2100

Source/ Sea level rise by 2100 (m)
Department of Climate Change, Australia 0.6 m plausible, 1.5 m “cannot be ruled out”,
risk assessment level 1.1 m
Dept of Environment, Climate Change & Water, NSW 0.9 m
Department of Environment & Resource Management, Queensland 0.8 m
California Climate Change Center, USA 1.0 – 1.4 m by 2100
DEFRA, UK 0.12 – 0.76 m, extreme scenario 1.9 m
Deltacommissie, The Netherlands 0.55 – 1.2 m, planning level 1.1 m
United Nations Environment Programme 0.5 – 1.4 m
Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Double IPCC estimates
International Alliance of Research Universities 0.5 – 1.5 m
Table 3: Recent international projections of sea level rise by 2100 relevant to coastal planning

Sea level rises are not the only concern, more valatile weather patterns and larger storm systems are also symptoms.
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September 21, 2010 9:35pm
Sonny Blount

He admits its got nothing to do with us Pete:

The Royal Society paper, which Prof Manning helped produce, noted that during a warm period 125,000 years ago, sea levels were 5m or more higher than at present, and there was evidence that the rise was at rates of more than 1.5m each century.

You are stupid if you don’t dismiss it out of hand Pete. If you’d been paying any attention you would have read hundreds of these meaningless statements over the last decade. And this one is particularly dull because it admits it is saying nothing beyond what nature has done before.

Do you have any predictions to post from 30 years ago that we can compare with modern observations?
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September 21, 2010 9:36pm
Sonny Blount

hmmm.

Those are all a bit tame Pete. I predict 8 metres of sea level rise, a long time after I’m dead.
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September 21, 2010 9:38pm
krazykiwi

More on islands … and supposed seal level rises here.

Also it’s worth observing that sea levels rose 110m in 8000 years after the end of the last ice age.

Anyone know how much human created Co2 helped with this?
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September 21, 2010 9:40pm
Pete George

I leave that sort of thing to the scientists Sonny. As you noted, they think there were natural changes of more than 1.5m per century, so it’s feasible for that to happen again, and could be worse if there is sufficient human influence to make a difference. Dismissing any reasonable possibility out of hand is ignorance, sometimes deliberate ignorance.

Krazy, what happened then is irrelevant, we are not in an ice age, probably closer to the opposite so the situation is completely different.
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September 21, 2010 9:43pm
krazykiwi

And in unrelated news … UK: ITV embarrassed by report of polar bear washed up on beach. Plonkers!
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September 21, 2010 9:53pm
Sonny Blount

We need to identify any scientists that have been accurate with what they said 30 to 40 years ago and those who are not with regards to timeframes for these events.

Like krazykiwi points out, you must ask the question ‘compared to what?’ about these claims. A metre of sea level is no big deal in the glacial/interglacial cycle, a degree of warming is nothing special. The fear and control crowd are going to have ammuntion for decades until you figure out that it is all natural. Interglacials get up to 4 degrees warmer than today and the oceans get up to 8m higher. The significance of this is that AGW theory relies on the forcings resulting from the very small amount of warming given by CO2. We have clearly had warming far more than what co2 is going to provide previously, and all the forcings such as thawing tundra have occurred before and have not been a runaway problem, almost every species around today has evolved to handle any ecological changes that will happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eemian

Warning: includes commentary from scientists not all that keen on AGW theory
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September 21, 2010 10:11pm
reid

He [Key] also defended the Government’s rushing through of legislation providing extraordinary powers to relax acts of Parliament so recovery processes can be sped up, but said the extent of those powers could be narrowed.

“We are not looking to try and pull a swifty in passing things through the (Earthquake Response and Recovery Bill). We are just simply trying to speed up the facilitation of the rebuild in Canterbury.

So the question I have is, why isn’t this done all the time, as an SOP, if there’s no probs doing it for a short time in this situation?

I mean, this is a perfect test run for a revised RMA process, isn’t it.
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September 21, 2010 10:35pm
jackp

Thanks Rex for the explanation of different types of “murders”.
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September 22, 2010 8:24am

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