General Debate 29 October 2010

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Yvette

1st

Just in passing –

“Bryson v Three Foot Six Limited

“Mr Bryson had a 20 year history of model making as a hobby. He had worked for Weta workshops in 1996 and 1997 and was employed in 1998 to make miniatures for The Lord of the Rings films …

“In October 2000 Three Foot Six supplied a written contract for all its crew which referred throughout to contractor and independent contractor. Mr Bryson continued to work for Three Foot Six on the set until 2001. On 23 August 2001 it was announced that Three Foot Six had ordered the miniatures unit to downsize. In September Mr Bryson was told that he was not being kept on. He was made redundant and alleged unjustifiable dismissal …

“However only employees have the right to pursue personal grievance claims. If Mr Bryson was an independent contractor then he could not have a personal grievance claim against Three Foot Six Limited.

… In the Employment Relations Authority he was found to be an independent contractor. This meant that he could not pursue his personal grievance claim for unjustified dismissal.
This decision was then appealed to the Employment Court. The Employment Court decided that he was an employee of the company and therefore had a valid personal grievance.
This decision was then taken to the Court of Appeal. The Court of Appeal determined that the Employment Court judgment was incorrect and agreed with the Authority decision that Mr Bryson was an independent contractor. Finally the decision was taken to the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court overturned the Court of Appeal and agreed with the Employment Court decision that Mr Bryson was in fact an employee.”
– http://www.prlaw.co.nz/news/article/employment-vs-independent-contractor

I don’t actually mind that there is prompt action to clarify this load of krap and end a fucking farce that Bryson, Three Foot Six, the Employment Relations Authority, the Employment Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court, NZ Actors Equity, the Australian Media Entertainment & Artists’ Alliance, International Federation of Actors, the NZ CTU, and Warner Bros couldn’t make much sense of.
[Given that those first two parties and the various courts could not agree, those actors unions and CTU all suggested something that is illegal, and Warner Bros, who must have seen about every type of contract there is on earth, had trouble with it]

“But Green Party co-leader Russel Norman said New Zealand was prostituting its industrial laws to satisfy a multinational corporation.”
It’s what you get, Norman, when the law is a bitch and needs tarting up.

And further –
What is with that crazy CTU woman Helen Kelly [TV ONE NEWS yesterday evening] accusing Prime Minister Key of bowing to international pressure when she seems to have condoned the actors’ actions of bringing a fucking global boycott to bear on Peter Jackson [“The 17 August letters” posted October 28th, 2010 at 2:04 pm by David Farrar] and so politely telling him so by a ‘Cc’ added to a letter to 3 Foot & Limited, Auckland
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October 29, 2010 8:01am
metcalph

What the Nats should have done was pass the Hobbit Law under a Gerry Order.
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October 29, 2010 8:03am
Murray

Bryson signed a contract to get the work then used the courts to alter the terms of that contract in a way that was entirely at odds with that contract. Mr Bryson was not acting in good faith when he signed the contract. A fundemental requirement of employer employee relations.

This law required clarification and far from reducing workers rights it prevents them from being dishonest in their dealings with the employer. If a law existed that allowed an employer to pull the same sort of shit the unions would be exploding all over the place.

Attacking this law clarification makes me wornder at the morals of people who cliam the power to act in bad faith as being a workers right. Oh wait Russell Norman, never mind, I’ve already got a good idea where his morals are. Power without accountability for him.
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October 29, 2010 8:10am
Jimbob

Just as an aside, who are the Supreme Court judges? Why did they get it wrong? This is a worry.
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October 29, 2010 8:16am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Yes metcalfe. What a pity The Hobbit infrastructure was not based in Christchurch.
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October 29, 2010 8:19am
Brian Smaller

What the Nats should have done was pass the Hobbit Law under a Gerry Order..

Wouldn’t that have meant that the government could be accused of Gerrypandering the system to suit to Warner Brothers
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October 29, 2010 8:26am
Murray

Could be seen as having been a gerry built law then Brian.
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October 29, 2010 8:32am
shady

There has been some speculation about why The Hobbit was targeted and not the likes of Spartacus. Some have suggested it is because the bird doesn’t like to shit in its own nest, but I think the nest is larger than thought. I’ve had a couple of interactions with friends in the last week or so that has suggested that there were a number of people who didn’t agree with my support of “The Keep the Hobbit in NZ” campaign. These were Aucklanders I might add – and one being a friend of one of the AE executive who has had a reasonably high profile in this dispute. Then last night I had a brief discussion with another friend (not a close friend mind) who is an actor/director here in Auckland also. This person also believed it was the wicked actions of Warners that caused the dispute. It was all just a ruse to get more money out of NZ.

Originally I had thought – yes – they’re not targetting Spartacus because of the relationship between Jennifer W-L, and her husband Michael Hurst – an actor/director on the show. But it would seem its more the actions of the Auckland AE members targetting something outside their own nest to get changes to the Auckland conditions – which I have been told are not good. I would wonder just how many of the Auckland AE members are involved in The Hobbit. Remembering of course – LOTR was filmed south of the Bombays.

Is that all this is – the Auckland actors trying to exert their muscles over the rest of NZ? Notable also – there was very little engagement from the Auckland actors and film workers.
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October 29, 2010 8:33am
Murray

The entire blame Warners line tends to fall on its ass with them staying here though doesn’t it. 30 mill is chump change for what we’re getting out of it.
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October 29, 2010 8:42am
shady

For some reason I was unable to edit the above comment, but what I had mean to say, was “Notable also – there was very little engagement by the Auckland actors and film workers in the rally for Keep the Hobbit in NZ”. Not actually being in the film industry, but very pro NZ and very much into improving our economy, I had blindly thought everyone else in Auckland would be equally so.
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October 29, 2010 8:44am
Inventory2

How do you punish an 11-year-old mini crime wave? We were the victims of very young offenders earlier in the year, and we can understand how this boy’s mother feels; full credit to her for actually WANTING to come up with a punishment that will be of consequence.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-can-be-done.html
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October 29, 2010 8:47am
Murray

A lot of them are just in it for themselves shady. And a lot of them don’t actually live here.
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October 29, 2010 8:51am
Pongo

Didnt Labour pass legislation to clarify that real estate agents were independent contractors ? How can Labour say they want to keep the hobbit here but oppose legislation that is critical to it ? What is the problem with clarifying that when you sign on as a contractor with all its tax benefits then that is what you are ? Why is it OK for an overseas union to push its case but an attack on our soverignty when an overseas company spending 670 million wants some clarity ?
How crap are our journalists breathlessly towing the union conspiracy lies when a 10 year old can figure out that Warners couldnt possibly engineer the whole thing.
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October 29, 2010 9:00am
Chuck Bird

Some people wonder why I am anti homosexual activist. Read the comments at the link below.
These demands are madness. Do these homosexual activists think that the people in charge of policy at NZ Blood Services
are homophobes? How many would be happy to accept blood from a homosexual or prostitute who said they always used a
condom?

Proclamations of the Red Queen

5th September 2010
Civic Responsibility, Gay Men and the Blood Donor Ban
Posted by: Craig Young

http://gaynz.com/blog/redqueen/archives/932

[DPF: remainder of comment deleted due to copyright violation. If you wish to refer to something post a link and a small extract or summary only – not the full text]
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October 29, 2010 9:04am
mjwilknz

Jimbob, I agree that the Bryson decision does look funny, but do we really know it wasn’t a procedural issue to do with the Employment Relations Authority? That is, was it a ruling about contractors, generally? (Perhaps someone with a legal background can fill us in.)

If it was a general legal ruling, it looks absolutely bonkers! Why isn’t NZ’s legal profession upholding the freedom of contract better than that?
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October 29, 2010 9:05am
Yvette

Where is Phil Goff?
Hide behind motor-mouth Trevor – it doesn’t matter if he puts his foot in it, he has done it so often before.
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October 29, 2010 9:09am
Inventory2

Phil Goff was in Wanganui yesterday Yvette while the debate raged in Parliament; the red-and-white striped shirt and the bobble hat was a giveaway 🙂
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October 29, 2010 9:13am
Brian Smaller

Does anyone else here like Swedish death metal band “Amon Amarth”? I am not a great fan of death metal but this particular band’s music I am finding strangely enjoyable – in an ear drum shattering way.
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October 29, 2010 9:20am
big bruv

Is everybody looking forward to Halloween this Sunday?
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October 29, 2010 9:22am
Brian Smaller

bb – given we now live 2.6km from our nearest neighbour with small kids, I think I am now immunised against trick or treaters. When I lived in Avalon in Lower Hutt it was like Halloween every day but I came to understand that what I was seeing were not vampires or witches but just women in burkas.
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October 29, 2010 9:33am
Lipo

Why not film the Hobbit in Christchurch
Then when it is finished there would be all these quaint little houses for people to live in that don’t have any at the moment
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October 29, 2010 9:42am
big bruv

Brian

Has Avalon changed that much?, it used to be gang patches when I was young.

Halloween is a great time to tie the dogs to the front door handle, I figure that anybody who gets past them is worthy of a treat or two.
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October 29, 2010 9:43am
Kris K

Inventory2 8:47 am,

How do you punish an 11-year-old mini crime wave? We were the victims of very young offenders earlier in the year, and we can understand how this boy’s mother feels; full credit to her for actually WANTING to come up with a punishment that will be of consequence.

Has our society really come to this; that we don’t know how to discipline and train kids up to the age of 11?
I wonder what Sue Bradford’s answer would be?
Good grief, most of us and our peers would have been thrashed to within an inch of our lives if we did half of the things this little shit did. And I don’t even blame the kid primarily, but rather the useless parents who allowed him to get to this age with presumably no discipline and no consequences.

Eleven years old is too bloody late to start the process. No doubt this kid will become yet another drain on resources as he enters our courts and corrections systems. This sort of crap makes me wild.
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October 29, 2010 10:05am
Murray

You discipline him when hes FOUR.
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October 29, 2010 10:06am
gravedodger

A significant problem with the above legal stoush is that the employment relations authority and the court of appeal seem to have an understanding of what a contract is whereas the employment court and the supreme court rule from an employer/employee relationship angle, and my strong misgivings on past performances of the E C and the SC being legally objective are aroused.
Did Bryson enter into a contract or not was the only question surely.
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October 29, 2010 10:09am
TripeWryter

Murray:

No. You discipline from the start. By 4 it’s getting too late. In a way I feel sorry for the mother. She’s been holding the baby, and he’s been allowed to run wild. The boy doesn’t appear to have had a meaningful man — ie, father worthy of the name — in his life to sort him out. Tragic. He’s headed for jail.
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October 29, 2010 10:16am
Kris K

Chuck Bird 9:04 am,

Some people wonder why I am anti homosexual activist. Read the comments at the link below.
These demands are madness. Do these homosexual activists think that the people in charge of policy at NZ Blood Services
are homophobes? How many would be happy to accept blood from a homosexual or prostitute who said they always used a
condom?

Yeah, unbelievale Chuck.

And I really like this bit:

If it turns out not to be based on robust evidence, then the government and NGOs need to adjust their policies accordingly, so that potential gay male blood donors can perform our civic responsibility and meet the needs of others at times of severe injury and hardship.

Their “civic responsibility” is to keep their poisoned blood away from the rest of society. I’d rather bleed out, than accept a sodomite’s blood with the chance of then going on to contract HIV/AIDs. And these pricks think they’re doing us all a big favour by “meet[ing] the needs of others at times of severe injury and hardship.” If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society.
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October 29, 2010 10:21am
Chuck Bird

Eleven years old is too bloody late to start the process. No doubt this kid will become yet another drain on resources as he enters our courts and corrections systems. This sort of crap makes me wild.

I usually agree with you but think you are likely wrong on this one. I have worked in mental health for about a year a very long time ago. Punishment does not work the same with those with mental health problems.

I lobbied strongly against the anti-smacking legislation. However, physical punishment is not the answer in some cases. This may be one of them.
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October 29, 2010 10:23am
Kris K

Brian Smaller 9:33 am,

When I lived in Avalon in Lower Hutt it was like Halloween every day but I came to understand that what I was seeing were not vampires or witches but just women in burkas.

And were most of those women Somali? – I believe most of the Muslims in the Hutt Valley are Somali refugees. Would that be your understanding too, Brian?

A mate of mine who taught at Hutt Valley High said they had a lot of trouble at the college with Somali/Muslim students. One thing I recall him saying was the Somali/Muslim male students had major issues with respecting female students and teachers. As I’ve said before, do we really need or want these kind of people within our society?
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October 29, 2010 10:33am
James Stephenson

Is everybody looking forward to Halloween this Sunday?

Yes actually. I was up late making wooden swords for the boys to dress up as pirates for their creche today, so I’m looking forward to the complaints about encouraging old-fashioned boisterous boy behaviour…

We’ll just stick a “by appointment only” sign on the gate and have some lollies for the neighbours kids.
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October 29, 2010 10:38am
Jack5

A really good New Zealander, Lieutenant Colonel John Masters, died in a Christchurch hospice yesterday. Masters was first well known for his solo two-day rescue of a wounded Gurkha NCO in the Borneo jungle behind Indonesian lines during the Confrontation. For this, the Brits, on the Gurkhas’ nomination, awarded him the Military Cross. Masters was also the last commander of the NZ battery in Vietnam. He then spent years fighting vigorously on behalf of the neglected and rejected NZ Vietnam veterans. He was a leader in the campaign for recognition of the suffering of the veterans and their families from Agent Orange.

John Masters led a good and worthwhile life, shepherding his men until the end.

He was NOT the person who posted on Kiwiblog as Colonel Masters. Old comrades and old acquaintances, including me, praised him on Kiwiblog thinking the “Colonel Masters” posts were from the real Colonel Masters – John Masters. We mentioned his recent biography, A Bridge Over, by Allan Marriott. Reprehensibly, the poster using the pseudonym “Colonel Masters” allowed our posting to continue for a year or more before admitting he/she wasn’t in fact the NZ hero, Colonel Masters.

The anonymous poster said the pseudonym was chosen in September 2007, and offered this explanation for not clarifying the confusion earlier:

…It should have been fairly obvious that a gentleman like him would be unlikely to adopt the handle “Colonel Masters”.

Who ever could think John Masters wouldn’t have posted under his own name if he had been active in the Kiwiblog comments? Certainly no-one who served with him or otherwise knew him.
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October 29, 2010 10:38am
big bruv

God Point James.

I have no problem at all with the neighbours kids doing the Halloween thing, what does piss me off though are the groups of teenage kids who do not live anywhere near us knocking on the door.
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October 29, 2010 10:45am
RichardX

KrisK, Do you realise not all gay males engage in sodomy? Are you aware of the growing incidence of heterosexual males engaging in sodomy with female partners? Is your objection due to the practice of sodomy as defined by your term sodomites or is your problem with homosexuals and you are just using sodomites as a pejorative?
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October 29, 2010 10:52am
Kris K

Chuck Bird 10:23 am,

I usually agree with you but think you are likely wrong on this one. I have worked in mental health for about a year a very long time ago. Punishment does not work the same with those with mental health problems.

If he was severely mentally disabled I may have some sympathy for your view, Chuck, but this kid only suffers from “attention deficit disorder”. From IV2’s link:

The Masterton woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, broke down in tears while speaking about her boy, who has an attention deficit disorder, and her loss as to make right “the terrible things he’s done”.

I have known many kids with this ‘condition’, and while they may be more naughty than other children they can still be taught limits and consequences. Perhaps the consequences just need to be harsher so that the message gets through. And in many cases I believe ADD is a modern ‘condition’ more the result of slack parenting than some hard wired brain type condition. Who of our vintage remembers many or any kids we grew up with that suffered from ADD? I believe most of these kids just need a firmer hand to sort them out in their earlier years. And as others have said, a father figure wouldn’t go a miss either.
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October 29, 2010 10:52am
Fletch

If you’re a DC comics fan, be sure to check out this week and next week’s episodes of Smallville on TV2 tonight. They form a kind of mini story called Absolute Justice (poster), which features appearances of characters from the Justice Society of America, including Hawkman, Dr Fate, and (briefly) the Sandman. I’ve watched it on the internet already, and it’s not too bad, especially if you’re a fan of the golden age.
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October 29, 2010 10:55am
starboard

Are you aware of the growing incidence of heterosexual males engaging in sodomy with female partners?

..thats disgusting…how longs this been going on for..umm , tell me where so I can err..see for myself..terrible..
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October 29, 2010 11:02am
RightNow

On the government electronic tender website today:

The Ministry for the Environment (MfE) seeks proposals to provide services and advice relating to the establishment of the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA).

Requirement identification and integration services are required to enable functions of the MfE, the Ministry of Economic Development (MED) and the Environmental Risk Management Authority (ERMA) to be integrated to form the new EPA on 1 July 2011.

Anybody else heard that NZ was to have our very own EPA? And why do we need one now?
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October 29, 2010 11:07am
Fletch

Great letter here to Rush Limbaugh from an angry Hillary Clinton supporter who was a Democrat for 32 years, but no more. It’s not just the way they treated Hillary during the 2008 election that he’s angry, but the cheating “Alinsky Rules” tactics used by the Dems.

If you have not seen it already, Rush, you need to watch Gigi Gaston’s documentary “We Will Not Be Silenced 2008″. I’m featured in a segment on the voter fraud that was committed in the Iowa Caucus back in January of 2008. While I was always aware Democrats use unions and other means to cheat in elections, I never knew the Democrat Party was capable of the large-scale, aggressive, unapologetic fraud it committed on Obama’s behalf all through 2008. In Iowa, I watched Obama’s ACORN and SEIU goons push and shove old people, bully them, and intimidate them when they wanted to vote for Hillary Clinton. I saw scores of Illinois license plates fill the parking lots outside caucus locations, with Chicagoland Obama supporters illegally entering the Caucus sites to vote for Obama and game Iowa for him. Having planned ahead, Obama supporters actually RAN those caucus sites, and held the doors open for all these fraudulent voters to walk right in, without being asked for IDs, where they then took control of the caucuses and bullied the Iowa residents into supporting Obama — lest they be called RAAACISTS! out in the open in front of their friends and neighbors in those open-air caucuses.

[…]

For almost a year, the Obama zealots and the Left waged all-out-war not just on Hillary Clinton, but on lifelong, loyal, dyed-in-the-wool Democrat voters like me. This came straight from the top, from Obama himself. Both he and his wife Michelle called the Clintons racists. Obama’s surrogates like James Clyburne, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, John Lewis, and others called Geraldine Ferraro, Madeline Albright, and others racists. The Obamas toxified the South Carolina primary, in particular, with foul race-baiting and turned North Carolina and Indiana into racial powder kegs by ramping up accusations that anyone not supporting Obama was a vile racist that needed to be pounded into the ground.

Stephanie Tubbs Jones, my former Congresswoman back home in Cleveland, was a black Hillary Clinton supporter to the very end — and she was called a “race-traitor”, an “Aunt Jane”, and all manner of worse names as she was bullied, berated, and verbally assaulted by the Obama team…because she was black and dared to stand with her friend Hillary Clinton, the person Tubbs Jones knew would make a better president than “The One”. To her dying day in August of 2008, Tubbs Jones was threatened by the Obama campaign and told she’d be primaried in 2010 and kicked to the curb for being a “race-traitor”. She died of a brain aneurysm while driving her car, and Obama supporters filled Daily Kos, DemocratUnderground, and other George Soros-supported sites with lies about her drunk driving, doing drugs, and other slurs because even after she died these people wouldn’t stop hating her for daring to be an outspoken black woman who would never abandon Hillary for Obama.

[…]

Do you want to be in a party that calls people racists for stepping out of line and voicing opposition to the socialist lurch of the current administration?

Do you condone voter fraud and the shameless, undemocratic tactics employed by Democrats?

Do you wish to associate with the likes of ACORN, the SEIU, the Black Panthers, and all the other thugs, goons, and degenerates the Obama campaign and White House employ as the DNC’s muscle on the ground?

It is crystal clear that being a patriotic American who loves this country is intellectually incompatible with being a Democrat. If you love America and want it to prosper, the Democrat Party is at absolute odds with everything we need for a thriving, successful economy.

He makes the point that it will take decades to clean this Democrat taint from the people Obama has installed..

The reason so many of us support Governor Palin is not just because we see the same Alinksy assaults being waged upon her…but the woman is pitch-perfect in outlining exactly why Obama and the Left are wrong, and why Democrats under Obama are dangerous to have in elected office.

I know you talk about a “Hillary 2012″ but Rush, as much as I love Hillary Clinton, and as much as I worked my heart out for her in 2008, there’s no way that even she can repair the damage Obama has done to the party. Certainly not by 2012. MAYBE the Clintons and their supporters can purge the Obama lunatics from the party by 2016…but I doubt even that will happen. Just like with the Leftists Carter infected the Democrat Party with, Obama legacy hires will be in the DNC for a generation to come…and it might not be until the 2030s before the Democrats can remove the taint Obama and his Leftist agenda have put on the party.

Looks like there are a lot of angry people out there.
Read the whole letter reprinted at Atlas Shrugs.
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October 29, 2010 11:08am
Kris K

RichardX 10:52 am,

KrisK, Do you realise not all gay males engage in sodomy? Are you aware of the growing incidence of heterosexual males engaging in sodomy with female partners? Is your objection due to the practice of sodomy as defined by your term sodomites or is your problem with homosexuals and you are just using sodomites as a pejorative?

I have no issues with celebate homosexuals in a societal impact sense. But ACTIVE homosexuals who engage in homosexual sex, especially sodomy, I have a MASSIVE issue with regarding societal impact. And lets be clear, most homosexuals are sexually active, have MULTIPLE casual partners, and some also engage occassionally in sex with women. That HIV/AIDs is spread primarily by active homosexuals is well established, and on that basis alone they should not be permitted to donate blood.

If heterosexual males are limiting their sexual proclivities to the marriage bed, then I guess that’s between them and their wives. If promiscuous heterosexual males are PROVEN to be contributing to the spread of HIV/AIDs then we need to look at that too.
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October 29, 2010 11:08am
nickb

Wow, what a nice, reasoned piece of advocacy

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/alcohol-abuse/news/article.cfm?c_id=115&objectid=10683698
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October 29, 2010 11:13am
Kris K

I meant:

If promiscuous heterosexual males, WHO ENGAGE IN SODOMY, are PROVEN to be contributing to the spread of HIV/AIDs then we need to look at that too.
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October 29, 2010 11:16am
big bruv

Kris K

So you have no problem with poofs just as long as they do not actually have sex?

What possible business is it of yours what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom?
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October 29, 2010 11:26am
James Stephenson

Hey, and while we’re on the blood donation subject, where do I go to complain about being victimised because I lived in the UK during whatever years it was and may have Mad Cow Disease?
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October 29, 2010 11:29am
Ryan Sproull

If you’re a DC comics fan, be sure to check out this week and next week’s episodes of Smallville on TV2 tonight. They form a kind of mini story called Absolute Justice (poster), which features appearances of characters from the Justice Society of America, including Hawkman, Dr Fate, and (briefly) the Sandman. I’ve watched it on the internet already, and it’s not too bad, especially if you’re a fan of the golden age.

Right on, Fletch. The two-parter is the highlight of the whole season, in my opinion.

Plus, Stargate’s Michael Shanks plays Hawkman, and Michael Shanks is awesome.
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October 29, 2010 11:31am
kowtow

Correct me if I’m wrong please.

Didn’t Labour pass laws to facilitate the RWC ,advertising etc.? If so did they also “bend over” for the large overseas nasty corporations.

Now what’s all this sodomy business about,you’d think the poor old Gomorrahites might feel left out of the discussion?

starboard, Lots’ missus wanted to peek too,and look what that got her.
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October 29, 2010 11:33am
dime

Scientists think they have discovered the “liberal” gene:

Ideology, they say, is affected not just by social factors, but also by a dopamine receptor gene called DRD4.

The research examined 2,000 subjects from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, matching genetic information with maps of the subjects’ social networks.

The team found that people with a particular variant of the DRD4 gene were more likely to be liberal as adults – but only if they had an active social life as adolescents.

Now, how the fuck do we treat it and can we start now?
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October 29, 2010 11:33am
thedavincimode

“If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society.”

Care to reconcile that approach with some Christian values? (being those of the originator as distinct from the sham happy clappy get rich quick values that can be purchased “as seen on TV”)
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October 29, 2010 11:36am
reid

“Now, how the fuck do we treat it and can we start now?”

Exactly. This is one public health problem I don’t mind paying to tackle. Does Tony know?
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October 29, 2010 11:38am
dime

Hey Kris – if i poon some chick in the ass this weekend, we still cool? or do i have to go live on an island somewhere?
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October 29, 2010 11:38am
Fletch

If you’re in the US, download the FREE application for iPhone, Blackberry, or Android phones, “Voter Fraud”, that helps ordinary citizens to “identify, report and track suspected incidents of voter fraud and intimidation.”

More info and download links HERE
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October 29, 2010 11:39am
RichardX

KrisK, That is a more reasoned argument. As James Stephenson points out, I am not allowed to give blood due to possible CJD contamination from living in the UK during the 80’s / 90’s. If the risk posed by my possible exposure to CJD is enough to preclude me from giving blood then a blanket ban on gay males is an appropriate way to mitigate the potential risk.

I will not debate your comment that ‘If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society’ as your religious dogma will not allow you to separate a person’s value to society from their sexual orientation.
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October 29, 2010 11:42am
nickb

If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society.

The joys of religious tolerance.
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October 29, 2010 11:42am
big bruv

Dime

The only place you will be going is to hell!
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October 29, 2010 11:44am
thedavincimode

Dime

You’ve already identified the solution. All we need is legislation to require all adolescents to be confined to their bedrooms until adulthood. It should also assist in reducing the road toll and traffic congestion, as well as making the place a bit quieter generally. Did the study indicate the prospect of success in addressing what seems from today’s comments to be a spiralling increase in the rate of chutney-punching?
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October 29, 2010 11:46am
Atheist1

The everloving and tolerant Krisk: “If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society.”

Yes, well NZ is grateful you don’t have your way and never will.

And as Dime pointed out, I’m likely to take one up the ass from my husband this weekend. So I have to move to an island? What business is it of your’s???
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October 29, 2010 11:50am
Kris K

big bruv 11:26 am,

So you have no problem with poofs just as long as they do not actually have sex?
What possible business is it of yours what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom?

If you want to receive blood from sodomites, halfwit, then I guess that’s your business. Most of us who have actually thought about the issue realise that what some “people do in the privacy of their own bedroom” could result in some of us contracting HIV/AIDs were their blood to enter our national blood banks. Ditto for whores who want to give blood.
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October 29, 2010 11:50am
tom hunter

… I’m likely to take one up the ass from my husband this weekend….

Comment of the month on Kiwiblog – perhaps the comment of the year!

Normally I’d give something like this “two thumbs up” – but I fear misinterpretation!
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October 29, 2010 11:54am
Manolo

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683802&ref=rss

Akin to fighting to buy tickets on Titanic’s maiden voyage. ACT continues its pattern of self-destruction.
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October 29, 2010 11:58am
James Stephenson

I don’t usually bother about what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms, but please can you leave the poor donkeys alone?

(This is New Zealand and the word is “arse”)
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October 29, 2010 11:59am
Manolo

“And as Dime pointed out, I’m likely to take one up the ass from my husband this weekend. So I have to move to an island? What business is it of your’s???”

Hats off to an honest woman! 🙂
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October 29, 2010 12:02pm
thedavincimode

Manolo, better than that, Hide timed his move to divert the public’s attention from Labour’s Hobbit embarassment.
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October 29, 2010 12:07pm
Atheist1

🙂
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October 29, 2010 12:11pm
big bruv

Kris K

What about the potential of meat eaters donating contaminated blood (mad cow disease)?

The whole aids thing is just an excuse for you to exhibit your stupid intolerance and religious bigotry.

And you wonder why people are turning away from religion.
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October 29, 2010 12:15pm
Yvette

“If I had my way all sodomites would be put out on distant offshore islands in quarantine away from the rest of society.”

Isn’t these what Simon Whipp and some other Australians consider New Zealand to be?
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October 29, 2010 12:25pm
John Gibson

“And you wonder why people are turning away from religion.” – people are turning away from religion because it is based on a fallacy (i.e. the existence of a divine being) not because they want to slip one up their partners bum on a Friday night.
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October 29, 2010 12:27pm
big bruv

Come on Kris, defend your position, show us some more of your legendary bigotry and intolerance.
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October 29, 2010 12:29pm
dad4justice

Oh look the cowardly smear big blouse is blowing on all two cylinders. What a crackpot and I do hope Jesus and 10 million kids knock on his door. Poodles don’t frighten anybody you twisted creep.

Who is this deranged character? It has to be an out of work woman.
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October 29, 2010 12:30pm
kowtow

dime,
what gets me about so many of these “scientific” studies that come up with genes for whatever cause they are espousing is they seem to always add a social variant.

Nature/nurture.
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October 29, 2010 12:32pm
Manolo

A good friend of mine sent this letter to John Key a few days ago:

“I am writing this email as a result of reading the Coastal Coalition advertisement in the Dominion on Wed Oct 27.

It has LONG been a very big concern of mine that this country is giving in to every demand that Maori make in the name of “The Treaty” – that archaic document that was signed between Maori and the “British” Government over 170 years ago, which nobody seems able to definitively interpret as to the meaning of it. I believe even the 2 versions (Maori and English) differ? Was there in fact a Maori written language then? Many of the Maori chief signatories were so illiterate, they could not even sign their names?? Instead, we seem to put huge faith in the oral word passed down over these many years.

Is there another country in the world where ownership of lakes, rivers, mountains seabed etc is given to the indigenous people? (Weren’t the indigenous people of NZ the Moriori?) Do the Maori consider they did not steal the land from the Moriori? Because somehow, they think the British stole it from them!!! What’s good for the goose…..

Maori are forever claiming their definition of “ownership” is not the same as the European definition, and therefore Maori “ownership” will not jeopardise the use of that resource (land, water) to the rest of NZ. Yeah right! Maori constantly claim they will not create barriers or charge others to use these resources…. Ask Taupo boat owners if that is true? Why is it that local Iwi are allowed to charge boat owners to put their boats into the Lake? Why is it that the only people allowed to retrieve golf balls hit into the lake are the local Iwi? Why is it we so often read about local Maori occupying land (they CLAIM is theirs) and putting barriers across roads to prohibit access and yet NO police seem to go there to stop such illegal activities? Maori then tell us they will NOT undertake such actions if they become the legal owners. If they do just that when they are NOT the legal owners, why would we even dream they would NOT do it when they are the owners?

Reverting to the Coastal Ownership advertisement…
1. What IS at stake? 100,000 sq km of foreshore and seabed including airspace above and minerals below?? WOW… weren’t they farsighted seeing the value of “airspace”??? 170 years ago! The mineral wealth of NZ belongs to NZ… NOT 10% of NZ (and how many of that 10% are even full Maori? – mind you that is totally irrelevant as long as you have a smattering of Maori ancestry in your blood – the rest of your ancestry becomes conveniently unimportant.)
4. Why shouldn’t Iwi get a share of it (the mineral wealth)? They already do as equal NZ citizens. When are we ALL going to be treated as equal citizens and ALL share in the wealth and natural resources of this country?
6/7. Was there a 22km limit in 1840? If not, why then are they claiming a fourfold increase?
8/9. Have Maori always thought they owned the seabed? Why has there NOT been a treaty claim before, and why is it one judge can make such sweeping statements?
11/12. Why does John Key want no-one to own the seabed? Doesn’t this smell of avoiding the hard decision? Surely, if the Crown retained ownership, the future remains secure and not forever open for further claims? Isn’t this just trying to appease the Maori Party under this stupid MMP system we are being strangled with?
18/19. Wasn’t (Chris) Finlayson Ngai Tahu’s lawyer? As Minister for Treaty Settlements and the Attorney-General who approves the settlements, is he REALLY a neutral arbiter?
21/22/23. What is “customary title”? If it is indeed, “the right to bypass Resource management”, “the right to extract payments”, “the right to develop and mine the mineral resource”, “the right to all aquaculture developments” and “the right to impose Iwi resource plans on Central and Local government” – then we are indeed giving away a vast majority of rights to a very small minority. Is this FAIR to the rest of the country??
27. Are we still guaranteed free access to the beach and sea? “Yes” say the Maori (see my earlier comments about Taupo) but is it true that such a clause (banning charging) has been left out of the proposed bill?
28. Can Iwi deny beach access? The bill says Iwi can bar anyone from any area “they say is sacred”??? AND Maori wardens can fine anyone up to $5000 for going there!!! Please tell me this is NOT true… What that says is that Iwi could define an entire beach/coastline as “being sacred”! Let’s see the courts challenge THAT one. (Refer 29. “It happens now on beaches Iwi don’t even own”. and 30. “Iwi have sole rights to decide what is sacred”)
31. How much foreshore and seabed will Iwi get customary title to? “Finlayson says 2000km of coastline, Maori MPs say much more and Key says “no one really knows” – scary” – now that really IS SCARY!!!
32. Will this satisfy iwi desires? “No. Any iwi victory just spawns more claims. The Maori party say they won’t stop until the whole of our 200-mile economic zone is in Maori Title.” You had better believe THAT is gospel truth!!!!

I implore you to consider all of the above and keep in mind that “New Zealanders” are NOT only Maori and that “New Zealanders” want to share in the natural wealth and beauty of this country for many generations to come. KEEP the foreshore and seabed in Crown ownership, do NOT make the wishy-washy decision of NO ownership – that is showing a huge lack of committment and leadership. Rest assured, my views are shared by MANY fellow New Zealanders, and you run the very real risk of alienating the vast majority of this country – even (dare I say it) many staunch National Party supporters.

While I am not an active supporter of such groups as Coastal Coalition, I do strongly agree with their sentiments.”
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October 29, 2010 12:45pm
joe90

Well she certainly puts the party in tea party.
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October 29, 2010 12:47pm
big bruv

Bloody hell….one of my stalkers has turned up.
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October 29, 2010 12:58pm
dad4justice

More lies from big blouse the most twisted twit on kiwiblog.
Lunch break over, back to work, have fun crackpot blouse. What a lame loser.
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October 29, 2010 12:59pm
kaya

Looks like our exporters are in for a long hard slog ahead while the US in particular continues playing monopoly with their economy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/8039586/Time-for-more-QE.html

The implications for NZ are bad enough but the Chinese will react for sure. How they react will be interesting to say the least.
As the poster at the bottom of the Telegraph article said:

“It is a little like a drunk taking one final and deep swig of his hardest liquor, with the consequent hangover the next day being far worse.”

We should be looking at protectionist measures. Everyone else in the world is, we keep kidding ourselves that we are operating in a free market. Bollocks of the highest order.
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October 29, 2010 1:04pm
Lucia Maria

Chuck Bird,

The last time I quoted something that was published on GayNZ in it’s entirety (even though I put in a link), I was threatened with legal action. I wonder if they just go after conservative blogs, or if DPF will get the same treatment.
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October 29, 2010 1:26pm
dime

Hey Kris – I’m still allowed to cop head right? Even though its sodomy?

What if drunk Dime picks up a blonde with big fake breasts and gets himself blown in the bathroom of a seedy bar… then it turns out ive been duped (or didnt care) and its actually a tranny?

Is ignorance a defence?

Or am i off to the island?
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October 29, 2010 1:29pm
jinpy

Manolo (and friends),

I believe you are quoting a myth:
Moriori are not thought to be a separate race existing before Maori arrival but rather effectively a Maori sub-tribe that developed separately on the Chatham Islands. This myth has been perpetuated precisely for the use the writer above has adopted (good for the goose…), i.e. Maori can not criticise colonisation because they themselves colonised another group.

I am not 100% on this, but I believe the treaty came about in its form precisely because the English Crown was seeking to hold themselves to a higher standard in dealing with indigenous peoples. This is probably the reason for the relatively generous terms of the treaty, aside from all the arguments around specific meanings and the wishes of Settlers as opposed to the Crown. For example, as I understand it, Maori were legally declared to be the owners of the land before European arrival.
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October 29, 2010 1:35pm
Lucia Maria

Dime,

The simplest thing to remember is that there should be no sex outside of marriage. That excludes porn and self-gratification as well. As for the gory details as you try and find loopholes – no one wants to hear them.
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October 29, 2010 1:40pm
Atheist1

^^hey Dime, I don’t mind hearing them, they’re cracking me up! We’re not all boring, deluded mothers like our resident Virgin Mary above.

Still waiting for KrisK’s answers but he’s probably so turned on he’s gone away to pray and ask for salvation.
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October 29, 2010 1:44pm
Manolo

“The simplest thing to remember is that there should be no sex outside of marriage. That excludes porn and self-gratification as well. ”

Yes, Lucia Maria. Now tell that to the hordes of deviant priests that have molested children over the years.
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October 29, 2010 1:47pm
dime

lol ya think Kris is violently masturbating while screaming “im sorry jesus”?

Lucia – I’m not trying to find loopholes. Just getting Kris to define what he thinks we can and cannot do. Is it just gay dudes that have rules? or straight dudes too?

What about hot chicks having sex in the shower? thats about as natural and as awesome as life gets.
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October 29, 2010 1:50pm
big bruv

Lucia

“The simplest thing to remember is that there should be no sex outside of marriage.”

Are you serious?…
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October 29, 2010 1:56pm
dime

“The simplest thing to remember is that there should be no sex outside of marriage.”

What if im married, but i see hookers on the side? Does that mean i go to the island? or that im just a scumbag?
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October 29, 2010 2:05pm
Lucia Maria

Manolo,

They knew they were breaking the rules, yet for some reason did so anyway. But because some priests (who should have set a higher standard) failed, does not therefore mean everyone else gets a free pass.

Big Bruv,

Yes, I’m absolutely serious. There are very good non-religious arguments for learning self-control in this area, as well as religious ones.

Dime,

It makes you an adulterer.
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October 29, 2010 2:09pm
John Gibson

“The simplest thing to remember is that there should be no sex outside of marriage. That excludes porn and self-gratification as well. As for the gory details as you try and find loopholes – no one wants to hear them.”

Why ? I assuming this is on the authority of whatever non-existent deity you worship and defer to.

To be internally coherent shouldn’t you have said “includes” not “excludes” ?
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October 29, 2010 2:11pm
starboard

..your a sick bastard dime…keep it up…
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October 29, 2010 2:16pm
Lucia Maria

John,

Yeah, I think you’re right about my grammar. I had the includes in there at first, and then changed it as I thought it may have lead some deluded souls into thinking that both the mentioned items were ok.

As to the why, in summary, sex outside marriage leads to unhappy outcomes. Porn prevents men from having satisfying relationships with women, even their wives.
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October 29, 2010 2:17pm
dime

“Porn prevents men from having satisfying relationships with women, even their wives.”

Thats actually true. As Doug Stanhope says “porn diminishes your taste for women that will actually fuck YOU”.
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October 29, 2010 2:20pm
John Gibson

Sex is like alcohol : it can be a source of pleasure or misery ( or even both at the same time).

Prostitution in general does not exploit women, it exploits men, in the same way “the pokies” exploit poor people. An exception would the cases of sex slavery involving Asian women on visitor visa’s.

Prostitution should be illegal not because it is immoral but because like cigarette smoking it is physically harmful.
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October 29, 2010 2:22pm
dime

Is it bad that i get turned on when an asian hooker tells me she had her passport taken off her?
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October 29, 2010 2:25pm
Ryan Sproull

Prostitution should be illegal not because it is immoral but because like cigarette smoking it is physically harmful.

So’s eating shitty food.
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October 29, 2010 2:26pm
Manolo

John, are you showing your controlist streak? You conclude that from your point of view smoking, drinking alcohol, and prostitution are “physically harmful”, therefore should be made illegal.

You said “pokies exploit the poor”? So the responsibility is on the piece of metal and elctronics, the machine, instead of the person playing it. Nice way to duck responsibility.

Where do you draw the line? What is left for individuals to choose in the utterly constrained world you propose?
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October 29, 2010 2:34pm
adze

How is prostitution necessarily physically harmful?
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October 29, 2010 2:48pm
dime

What is left? Worship Manolo!

Are the good church going people of kiwiblog tithing? Serious question.
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October 29, 2010 2:52pm
MikeNZ

Kris
I don’t agree with your position of putting Homosexuals on distant islands because they are homosexuals or for their lifestyle as heterosexuals also live their lifestyle but within the parameters of their sexuality choice.

However I am very grateful that the blood transfusion service is professional and they clearly state that blood products from active homosexuals is not a safe product for the wider community because their lifestyle choice isn’t either.

links here medically.
do a google as there are hundreds.
http://www.narth.com/menus/medical.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12828734/The-Health-Risks-of-Gay-Sex
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October 29, 2010 2:52pm
bhudson

“What is left for individuals to choose in the utterly constrained world you propose?”

Manolo, in such a world there would be only two choices – suffer or end it all. For the sane that would amount to no choice.
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October 29, 2010 2:56pm
MikeNZ

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6424664/hamass-iranian-puppeteer.thtml

There are heroes in the world and some of them are women.
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October 29, 2010 2:57pm
MikeNZ

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/

To stand up for something, you must believe in its worth. To stand up to something, you must believe that it is less worthy. If you don’t believe that, then it is easier to sit down, to give in and let them do whatever they wan

A long article but this sentence highlights a problem or vacuum we have in Western society today.
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October 29, 2010 3:03pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 2:52 pm,

Kris
I don’t agree with your position of putting Homosexuals on distant islands because they are homosexuals or for their lifestyle as heterosexuals also live their lifestyle but within the parameters of their sexuality choice.

It was more an extended metaphor to indicate how much damage/danger I view homosexuals/homosexuality represents to society – both in a moral sense (the normalisation of homosexuality as just another lifestyle choice; especially within sex education programmes), and physically (by introducing HIV/AIDs to wider society through bi-sexual encounters with women who go on to spread it throughout the (promiscuous) heterosexual community). Obviously homosexuals giving blood to the blood banks would represent yet another physical threat to greater society.

And I agree; promiscuous heterosexuals are little better. And those who give blood also provide opportunity for other blood-born STDs to enter the blood bank system.
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October 29, 2010 3:22pm
big bruv

Lucia

There is never a good religious argument for anything let alone having sex outside marriage.

Why the hell are you fundies so intolerant and bigoted?
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October 29, 2010 3:26pm
dime

Hey Kris – you gonna answer any of my questions? I need saving!
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October 29, 2010 3:34pm

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