General Debate 2 November 2010

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November 2, 2010 8:47am
Yvette

No, yesterday was the first, today is the second
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November 2, 2010 8:50am
Auberon

Come in Zipping!
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November 2, 2010 8:51am
CraigM

A prime example of the type of scum that the 3 strikes law will keep off our streets? One can only hope.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10684723

1987: Pauesi Brown attacks a man in Avondale, stabbing him in the thigh and upper chest. He is sentenced to one year in prison.
1989: Brown attacks two people in an Auckland boarding house, threatening them with knives. He is sentenced to one year and four months in prison.
1992: Brown attacks and kills his estranged girlfriend with a knife in Australia. He is charged with murder and is convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to eight years in prison.
2004: Brown attacks a man with a knife in his car in West Auckland. Sentenced to two years and four months in prison.
2008: Brown attacks and kills Austin Hemmings in central Auckland. He pleaded guilty yesterday to murder, and is to be sentenced next month.

What a horrible human being. No regard for others at all. I look forward to a sentence of Preventive Detention being handed down next month.
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November 2, 2010 8:51am
starboard

What a horrible human being. No regard for others at all. I look forward to a sentence of Preventive Detention being handed down next month

..sorry mate this is NZ , home of the wet bus ticket..
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November 2, 2010 8:53am
Murray

You kind of get the impression he had no business being loose on the streets at all.
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November 2, 2010 8:56am
BeaB

Did anyone else laugh at the Sunday Star Times editorial which said we had won the anti-nuclear fight with the USA and were now back where we were in the 1980’s. What a victory!
We could have scored another similar one by sending WB back home and refusing to film The Hobbit here.
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November 2, 2010 8:57am
MikeNZ

Is it just me or does anyone else think that our judiciary don’t have the same values as us?
I would have thought attacking someone with a knife would be at least 3 yrs or even 5yrs actually sitting in jail even for the first time.
But in 2004 after three knife attacks he only gets 2yrs and 4 months, I am non-plussed.
who are these judges?
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November 2, 2010 9:07am
starboard

from herald..

A mother who admitted an assault charge yesterday was called a “thug” by Judge Dominic Flatley, who questioned her fitness to have a child.
Horiana Teoti Whatuira, an unemployed 20-year-old from Frankton, was charged after she punched another mother in the face on October 11, knocking her 16-month-old son from his pushchair.

..another fine upstanding citizen…on the dpb , pumpin out babies courtesy of you and me. Prob a p addict who breaks into houses during the day…
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November 2, 2010 9:09am
CraigM

Nice comment from the Judge…

“This is not the Bronx,” he said.

I’ve spent plenty of time in the Bronx. (Yankee Stadium is smack in the middle) I never saw anything like this going on. I was happy to walk through the bronx but I would not walk through some parts of South Auckland.

Is the Judge not even aware that there are parts of NZ that are genuinely dangerous shitholes? How out of touch is he, that he has to comment on a part of another country that used to be dangerous, back in the 70’s & 80’s. His lasting memory of the place was obviously “The Warriors”.

Can we expect JK to apologise to Hillary when she gets here, for the slight on her beloved city/state by a NZ Government employee? -:)

Starboard: another candidate for a slap with a wet bus ticket?
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November 2, 2010 9:20am
kowtow

mike nz and starboard

No the judiciary do not have the same values as the rest of the country. They are way out of touch and see themselves as guardians of liberal “values’.

That Judge in starboards case told the woman “this is not the Bronx”.WTF!

No ,it’s NZ where we seem to have murders ,drive by shootings,out of control parties where 4by 2’s settle disputes,drug pushers shooting police almost on a daily basis etc etc etc.

I see the same Judge called a woman a “racist” for an attack on a tourist and said it gave NZ a bad name.

His slur on the Bronx could also be called racist and endanger tourism from New York.
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November 2, 2010 9:26am
david

CraigM no-one is likely to get all outraged and huffy by the Bronx comment. Now if he had said “This is not South Auckland ..” he would have been pounced on by the HRC, RRC, ethnic groups representing “Pacifica” (whatever/wherever that is), the Maori Party, various Kaumatua and probably the Karori Boy Scouts. Following which he would have been required to prostrate himself before the Black Power boys and issue a grovelling apology while taking leave to atttend a cultural awareness course designed andrun by Margaret Mutu.

Too high a risk in that.
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November 2, 2010 9:30am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Maluckyday
Manighar
So You Think
Illustrious Blue

Go Maluckyday!!!
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November 2, 2010 9:34am
alex Masterley

kowtow,

Bollocks.

Calling the judiciary out of touch is rubbish. They read the same papers as you do. They watch the same television programs that you do. They are out in our communities.

Being appointed to the Judicary does not remove then from the need to pull their pants on one leg at a time.

They sit in the criminal courts on a daily basis and see the thick end of the crap which goes on in our society and which does not make the news.

probably makes them better aware of what is happening in the country than you do.
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November 2, 2010 9:38am
peterwn

CraigM – Preventative detention is not available where life imprisonment is available. It does not matter since a life imprisonment sentence achieves the same thing particularly for a repeat offender. He will probably get a 15-18 year minmum but it is highly doubtful the Parole Board would let him out soon after that – there is a high chance he will remain in prison until he is incapacitated by frailty or serious ill health.
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November 2, 2010 9:46am
kaya

The “free market” is a total joke, when are Key and the Nats going to take some measure of protectionsm to help New Zealand?

They need to reintroduce a tariff regime. I am being a little sarcastic but at least tariffs would be more honest than the underhand shite coming out of the USA and Europe (and likely to be followed by Japan). I’m all for the principles of the free market but this is makes a mockery of it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10684620

This continual printing of money with the quaint name of “quantitative easing” is protectionism in another form. It changes the playing field dramatically. Why is the NZ government allowing our economy to be hammered like this? Why do we play by the rules and no one else does? This is blatantly devaluing their currency to create an advantage for their manufacturing sector to the detriment of our export sector.
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November 2, 2010 9:53am
pdm

Alex – I accept what you say.

But given all of that why does so much of their sentencing seem so far out of kilter with society’s expectations.
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November 2, 2010 9:57am
gravedodger

Yes alex but they do not have to endure the opression of ” surviving” amongst it. After a day of sh*t passing before them in the security of the court albeit with the odd skirmish, they pack up and drive to their nice house in a nice burb until next sitting. It aint the same.
I was living in the Masterton area in the early 80s when some scumbags made concerted attacks on the police, particularly targetting their homes with stalking and arsons.
When caught and put before the beak it was patently obvious that the out of town, visiting judiciary had no empathy with the reality that those on the line were going through but if the judge had lived on Lansdowne Hill and been caught up in the rubbish then different sentencing outcomes would have eventuated.
I beg to differ that watching the dregs parade before the bench equates to having to get the sh*t on your shoes.
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November 2, 2010 10:03am
Inventory2

RIP Patrick Brent Lewis; caring for society’s “unlovely” is one of the hardest jobs of them all, but this guy’s commitment shone like a beacon …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/11/sad-news.html
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November 2, 2010 10:06am
Jack5

Heh! Ro all those who were shouting “racist” at those who questioned the Natural Dairy bid for Crafar farms.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10684670
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November 2, 2010 10:13am
Tina Palin

Well those horrid creeps from the liberal MSM tried to out beck Beck and found themselves less use than a certain bridge in Alaska.

Just look at the meanness and hate they show, especially Numbers 44,95, 98

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-100-best-signs-at-the-rally-to-restore-sanity/

Who do these elites think they are? better than us just because they had an education?
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November 2, 2010 10:18am
CraigM

I2 – When I read that this morning, I felt incredibly sad for our society.

A man who devoted his life to helping the dreggs of society was killed by a person who would have benefited from the work that Mr lewis did.

I would argue that such a man was of more value to society than our celebrities, our sports stars, politicians et al….yet his passing will go unheralded by most. A sad indictment on our society.
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November 2, 2010 10:21am
kaya

CraigM – “I would argue that such a man was of more value to society than our celebrities, our sports stars, politicians et al….yet his passing will go unheralded by most. A sad indictment on our society.”

You don’t need to argue that point, it is a factual statement. People like him don’t seek power, fame or fortune, they just go about their business. Fortunately there are many like that but we din’t hear of them until something like this happens. These are the sort of people who should be getting travel perks instead of politicians.
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November 2, 2010 10:32am
Hagues

Man 100 “best” signs…. most were crap. Next time they should try choosing the best 10. But these were pinkos, so I guess they didn’t want anyone to miss out, all signs being equally good and all that nonsense. 93 was brilliant though 🙂
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November 2, 2010 10:34am
Offshore_Kiwi

That rally was a combination of useful idiots purposely pushing the Obamanation’s far left agenda, and useless idiots without a politically aware bone in their bodies. Either way, a target-rich environment.
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November 2, 2010 10:58am
Ryan Sproull

Yes, if “Vote For Pedro” is going to be considered one of the best signs, there had better not have been a “Save Ferris!” sign that didn’t make the cut.
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November 2, 2010 11:03am
kowtow

Alex masterly;

I call you on BOLLOCKS.

Why do we need a 3strke law? To force the judiciary to do their job.
Why is the Sensible Sentencing Trust so popular?
What were the results of that Citizens referendum back in ’99 was it, on serious crime,the one that forced Labour to pretend to get tough on crime.
Why the Foreshore and Seabed Act? Because of activist judges like Cooke and the undefined principles of the treaty.

What’s the Chief Justice been getting up to? see the 2 below.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10585005
http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2010/10/david-round-truth-about-free-beach.html
And if they’re reading the same papers as I do I see alot of people getting called up for non compliance with community orders,so those work really well too…..not.
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November 2, 2010 11:40am
Inventory2

@ CraigM – I believe that there is a suugestion that the death may be from natural causes, but a young bloke has been arrested and charged with assault in the interim. But you and Kaya are right; guys like this are the REAL heroes of our society.

Still; he will by now have heard those wonderful words: Well done, good and faithful servant – that is his eternal reward.
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November 2, 2010 11:45am
joana

Spare a thought for the Catholic community in Iraq. Many Christians have fled the Middle East but we seldom hear just how difficult life is for the ones who remain there.
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November 2, 2010 11:47am
Offshore_Kiwi

Anoyone who claims the judiciary is not out of touch is clearly out of touch. Every single day we see examples of the worst scum of society freed to cause more havoc. The hug-a-crim brigade whinge and whine that our gaols are overflowing. They complain about double-bunking and shipping container cells. Our gaols fucking well SHOULD be filled to overflowing. Criminal scum should be deprived of privileges such as television and internet access. They should be made to double-bunk (as a minimum). Shpiping containers should be used to house these scum. In fact, they should be used to TRANSPORT these scum, to some uninhabitable rock in the middle of the ocean.

Three-strikes is the first step in a fight-back by the rational against the irrational hug-a-crim wankers from civil liberties and the Howard League. It is only a first step. There must be more.
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November 2, 2010 11:50am
MikeNZ

three strikes for all criminal offences perhaps?
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November 2, 2010 12:04pm
John Gibson

“The article’s author, conspiracy theorist Ian Wishart, said he had received information that Paakkonen was kept alive after Hoglin’s death and transported nearly 300km by road, and then boat, to Kawau Island in the Hauraki Gulf.” – enough said.
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November 2, 2010 12:19pm
Offshore_Kiwi

John Gibson, try reading the article you fucktard. Wishart has turned his material over to police to look into. He has turned up witnesses who will swear statements. If the police were more than the enforcement and revenue gathering wing of the left, they would be interviewing those witnesses.

[DPF: demerits for fucktard in future]
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November 2, 2010 12:31pm
RightNow

Eagerly awaiting the republicans getting control of the house of reps tomorrow, and then beginning their investigations into the global warming scam.
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November 2, 2010 12:47pm
John Gibson

“try reading the article you fucktard” – didn’t your mother ever wash your potty mouth out ?
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November 2, 2010 12:53pm
Lucia Maria

Joana,

I have a post up on the latest Islamic attack in Iraq on the Catholic church in Baghdad. They specifically targeted the church. Just about everyone in there was either killed or injured. It’s truly horrendous.

Here’s what the group who claimed responsibility said:

“The Mujahedeens raided a filthy nest of the nests of polytheism, which has been long taken by the Christians of Iraq as a headquarter for a war against the religion of Islam and they were able by the grace of God and His glory to capture those were gathered in and to take full control of all its entrances.”
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November 2, 2010 1:32pm
Whafe

Mmmmmmmm

This makes interesting reading…..

Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better. If you’ve read his book, you will agree, this is a good summary.
Australians showed sense in resiting the government pressure to agree to a carbon tax before the Copenhagen Conference – which seems years ago now…….

Are you sitting down?

Okay, here’s the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you. (And it looks today as though another Icelandic volcano is about to flow very shortly – Google ‘Iceland volcano’)

It’s very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid’s “The Green Revolution” science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of Bali, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your $1 light bulbs with $10 light bulbs ….well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth’s atmosphere in FOUR DAYS ONLY by the volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time – EVERY DAY.
( When the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire 40 MILLION YEARS on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year – think about it.)

The effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

I’m so sorry. And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario.

They don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” – you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century.

And just keep in mind that if that same government is re-elected, you will have an Emissions Trading Scheme – that whopping new tax – imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.

PS: I wonder if Iceland is buying carbon offsets?
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November 2, 2010 2:13pm
Jack5

Even while Karyn Scherer reports in the NZ Herald about Natural Dairy’s international trouble with auditors, big mouthed Gareth Morgan in the newspaper’s same edition criticises – from Brazil – those who question the Natural Dairy bid for th Crafar farms. He writes while drooling about Brazilian agricultural advances:

“… back in New Zealand we paralyse our intelligence by sinking into a mindless swill of xenophobia…”

Has Morgan ridden his motor-cycle without a crash helmet once too often?

Morgan for years has shouted about flakes in the financial world. What’s happened to put him in the Red corner of Natural Dairy as it challenges for the Crafar farms?
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November 2, 2010 2:15pm
kowtow

joanna and lucia;

You’re whistling into the wind when it comes to Christian Arabs no one cares. They know it too and that’s why they’re all trying to get out from under the hand s of the ever tolerant Islamists.

Can you imagine the outrage if US special forces and security forces stormed a mosque and shot 3 mullahs. The exponents of the religion of perpetual outrage would be out in the streets from Stockholm to Sydney,ably supported by their sundry lefty dhimmi mates. Instead it’s ho hum another day in the middle east.

Al Jaz did a story on the beleagered Christians of Gaza. This was part of the recent synod coverage. The Christians are suffering under the Israeli blockade and want out……..so it’s the Israelis fault. But the only concrete case cited was the Christian man who was murdered for selling Bibles ,was he murdered by the Israeli blockade,no. Murdered by unknowns,in the place where Hamas knows everything that’s going on. And that’s why the Christians are leaving,they’re being murdered by the Ilamists from the religion of peace. But it’s convenient for the west to ignore the facts and blame the Jew.
And let’s forget about the historic ethnic cleansing in Turkey and the ongoing persecution of Christians there and in Egypt,after all those are Muslim countries…….by conquest.
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November 2, 2010 2:25pm
Fletch

Useful widget thingy for Election 2010 in America.
Not that I’m really sure how the whole elections works.

According to the link I just gave though, in the House, the Reps have a sure 174 seats, the Dems a sure 150, and there needs to be 218 seats needed for a majority.
The widget has a thing for the Senate race also, and a live results link.
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November 2, 2010 3:10pm
adc

I see people are pushing for mandatory dobbing in.

“Should it be mandatory for health professionals to report suspected child abuse”

Whilst I abhor child abuse, I think if the reporting of suspected abuse became mandatory, then people wouldn’t take their abused kids to the doctor any more for urgently needed medical treatment, and who wins out of that? I foresee such a law would increase the rate of mortality amongst abused kids.

Also it means if your kid falls down the stairs, and you take them to the doc, you might get a lovely visit from CYF.

I’ll look forward to that, since currently the poll is sitting on 92% support for making it mandatory.

Nice one NZ. Think before you vote.
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November 2, 2010 3:30pm
TimG_Oz

I just heard that Auckland Intl airport has been evacuated…
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November 2, 2010 3:34pm
gravedodger

Good comment Whafe @ 2 13, but the bloody volcanoes don’t get to vote whereas all the intellectually challenged sheeples do so those courting a place at the trough will see ETS as a sure fire vote winner for those who “care” not!.
Stuff has a headline today about a glorious October, weather- wise, that will be petrol on the fire for sure, pun optional.
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November 2, 2010 5:00pm
TimG_Oz

It was a fire drill.
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November 2, 2010 5:03pm
dad4justice

The Frogs take honours in the big race. Oh well, will they bomb the rugger world cup?
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November 2, 2010 5:08pm
Hurf Durf

Ladies and gentlemen: left wing academics! Let’s have a round of applause.

It’ll be something for the Republican Congress to defund, at least.
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November 2, 2010 6:18pm
Jimbob

Whafe @ 2:13 you are on the money. But Parliment will not listen. They are all thick when it comes to basic science.
Jack5 @ 2:15 Gareth Morgan is having a mid life crisis. Ever since he won lotto from David Kirk he has come out as a closet socialist. All those years of pretending to be a capitalist, we are fed all this off the planet socialist carbage. Many people trusted this guy.
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November 2, 2010 6:39pm
Dirty Rat

Cant wait for Outragous Fortune tonight
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November 2, 2010 7:13pm
the bird is the word

Cant wait for Outragous Fortune tonight

You should not be supporting Robyn any longer
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November 2, 2010 7:19pm
the bird is the word

Fletch has found a great site for all you need regarding the mid-term elections

Fletch I think it automatically updates when the results come in
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November 2, 2010 7:21pm
joana

Yes true Kowtow…imagine if it had been a mosque and imans and muslims murdered..we would never hear the end of it. I saw something recently about the Egyptians preparing genocide for the Coptic Christians.
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November 2, 2010 8:51pm
Fletch

bird is the word, yes, it updates, but from the “Election Results” tab on the left eg LINK, I discovered, not my original link. It seems to be updating very slowly right now… Perhaps because there are no results yet?
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November 2, 2010 9:15pm
John Gibson

“There is no doubt that volcanic eruptions add CO2 to the atmosphere, but compared to the quantity produced by human activities, their impact is virtually trivial: volcanic eruptions produce about 110 million tons of CO2 each year, whereas human activities contribute almost 10,000 times that quantity.” – Scientific American
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November 2, 2010 9:33pm
John Gibson

“According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), all of the planet’s volcanoes are responsible for about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) each year. To put this into perspective, the US EPA estimates that global greenhouse gas emissions from human activities totaled 28 trillion metric tons in 2006.”
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November 2, 2010 9:37pm
MikeNZ

thanks for tha t John
do you have a url?
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November 2, 2010 9:38pm
MikeNZ

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-slams-absurd-unesco-decision-on-jerusalem-west-bank-holy-sites-1.321868

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1634/unrwa-palestinian-school-hamas-base

meanwhile that example of impartial honest broking the UN keeps on keeping on.
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November 2, 2010 9:40pm
Fletch

John, if the Miskolczi Constant is correct (and it looks very much possible to me), the the climate can never get as bad as warmers say because the planet equalizes itself and temperature will never get above a certain amount. LINK

What’s more, when raw data is processed using the constant, the results come out as one would expect them to, what we are actually seeing in the real world.
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November 2, 2010 9:40pm
John Gibson

http://environment.about.com/od/greenhouseeffect/a/volcano-gas.htm

“He (Ian Plimmer) is a director of three Australian mining companies: Ivanhoe,[4] CBH Resources[4] and Kefi Minerals.[5] In 2008 and 2009, according to a columnist in The Age, Plimer earned over AU$400,000 from these interests, and he has mining shares and options worth hundreds of thousands of Australian dollars.”
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November 2, 2010 9:50pm
John Gibson

Fletch – criticism of Ferenc Miskolczi here:http://www.realclimate.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ferenc_Miskolczi
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November 2, 2010 10:02pm
Fletch

John, and yet not one peer review has come back disproving his theory or constant..
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November 2, 2010 10:15pm
Fletch

I have to admit, over the past few years my tolerance level for bullshit is not what it used to be. When I see something these days (no matter if it’s in a “respected” journal or publication or on the news), I want to know –

* where did the information come from?
* how was it gathered?
* who did the gathering? which side are they biased toward? Do they have an agenda based on the results?
* has the data been “adjusted” in any way
* what does the opposing side say?
* has the scientific method been applied?

and lastly –

* has common sense been applied?

A lot of studies are very deficient in that last point.
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November 2, 2010 10:30pm
Hurf Durf

So are we all looking forward to tasting Fabian tears tomorrow?
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November 2, 2010 10:58pm

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