General Debate 30 May 2011

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flipper

Winter has arri!ved
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May 30, 2011 8:24am
TripeWryter

Numero Uno?
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May 30, 2011 8:24am
TripeWryter

Buggeur …
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May 30, 2011 8:25am
Manolo

Racist Turia is “concerned”: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5071261/Maori-infant-formula-prompts-concern
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May 30, 2011 8:40am
Manolo

The country is destined to mediocrity with “Smile and Wave” as Prime Minister. Read and weep:
John Key believes voters have concerns about Act leader Don Brash holding the balance of power because he is an extremist, and they see the Maori Party as positive because it has worked constructively within the system.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10728904
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May 30, 2011 8:45am
Falafulu Fisi

An excellent article first pointed out by commentator Lee. C on another thread from last week. The best part of the comment from an expert for the reason for students’ low achievements is :

“Schools are inheriting an overentertained, distracted student,”

Many Nations Passing U.S. in Education, Expert Says
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May 30, 2011 8:52am
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi – that’s a major modern issue. When I was growing up I had far less distractions – I read quite a bit, listened to the radio a little, went to the “pictures” every now and then and otherwise we made our own entertainment. School was where I learnt quite a bit and it was my main way of socialising – and I still got quite bored with it.

With the multitude of distractions and “entertainments” and ways of socialising now it’s no wonder scholds struggle to compete for student’s attention.
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May 30, 2011 8:58am
Whafe

flipper – need winter to arrive, soil temps are really warm, it is of great concern to me how warm…. NOTHING what so ever to do with the BS topic in general of Climate Change… More so being a farmer and having produce in the ground 😉
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May 30, 2011 9:07am
Murray

Manolo you and Berend shouls get a room. You consistant Key bashing while offering nothing as an alternate is just a stuck record at this point.

In case you didn’t notice people in this country don’t vote for anyone, they vote against. So all either of you are doing is saying Vote Goff.

I’ll pass.
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May 30, 2011 9:09am
nasska

Following on from PG’s comment I reckon that the focus of modern education is up the spout. I’m in my sixties, run my own business & bugger around on the internet but the only things I left school with that proved to be of any value were the basics….reading, writing & arithmetic. Without these I’d be stuffed.

Without reasonable proficiency in these further education, be it of the self taught variety or formal is nigh impossible.

Why then do we put up with the educational experts’ practice of advancing students through various grades when it is obvious that they are incapable of succeeding until the basics are in place?
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May 30, 2011 9:18am
Yvette

Manolo [from yesterday’s General Debate] –

Maori need to find mana in their own past to feel safe about the present and future.
What? Are you asking for more tribal wars, pillage, violence, and cannibalism?

No. That is the whole point of what was being discussed yesterday [I think].
History is being rewritten to downplay, even eliminate, the tribal wars, pillage, violence, and cannibalism.

Change this –
When a slave girl, apparently about fifteen years of age, infuriated an old chief woman, she was promptly killed and eaten. The head was thrown to the children as a plaything. (Moon 2006, p. 20, quoting Polack 1838 pp. 5-6)

to this –
Researchers found children were treated with loving care and indulged. “The father was devotedly fond of his children and they were his pride and delight,” the report found. “Children would entwine themselves around their father’s neck for an entire day, asleep or awake, as a constant companion.” This instilled love, security, and confidence into Maori children.

Lead researcher Margaret Mountain Harte hoped the findings could be introduced in school curriculums to educate Maori teens. “It’s empowering for me. The whole warrior culture was balanced by the nurturing one,” she said.

Chair Dr Hone Kaa said Maori parents were able to see themselves in a much more positive light. “It will serve to demonstrate to Maori they don’t have to believe they’re inherently violent,” he said.

Rant –
Many believe the essence of Maori tradition to be MUI MURI KI MUA
from past forward
For many the past must be sorted before anyone can move on
and it seems if the past does not now give you what you want
just bloody rewrite it
simple
even although it is a lie
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May 30, 2011 9:20am
Falafulu Fisi

Murray, I think that Manolo & Berend are arguing for Don Brash’s policies which is the alternative that you ask for. The alternative to Key’s spending is to cut/trim it which is what Don Brash is advocating.
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May 30, 2011 9:20am
Falafulu Fisi

Nasska said…
…advancing students through various grades when it is obvious that they are incapable of succeeding until the basics are in place?

You’re right there Nasska. I’ve seen from both Labour and now National the propensity to throw technology into the system (eg, laptops for every kid) as somehow it will cure the falling achievement standards. Technology is great, but it should be used when kids fully understand the basics. Technology will enhance and accelerate their learning (no doubt) but they should only come in, when kids have mastered the basics and ready to adopt technology.
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May 30, 2011 9:27am
Bed Rater

Good Old Murray and his “if it’s not Labour, it must be National” monovision outlook.
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May 30, 2011 9:28am
nasska

Falafulu Fisi

Exactly….modern technology is nearly useless if you are unable to read what is on the screen. It may be faster than a book but without the basics the most it can do is speed up ignorance.
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May 30, 2011 9:40am
Manolo

It surprises me Murray didn’t find odd that the PM labelled the former leader of his own party as an extremist.
These days is much more convenient to repudiate an erstwhile colleague and embrace the racists.
The mystery of who leaked Brash’s e-mails to the despicable Nicky Hagger appears not so obscure now, doesn’t it?
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May 30, 2011 9:45am
thedavincimode

Why Manolo. How very Mallardish of you. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 9:50am
Manolo

It didn’t take long for thedavincimode, a National Party stallwart and one of the finest Key’s myrmidons (second only to Adolf in that department), to leap to the defense of Smile and Wave.

Your loyalty will be rewarded. 😀
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May 30, 2011 9:57am
thedavincimode

wot’s a myrmidon?
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May 30, 2011 10:37am
s.russell

“Modern technology is nearly useless if you are unable to read what is on the screen. It may be faster than a book but without the basics the most it can do is speed up ignorance” – nasska

Nicely put! And very true. No amount of technological gadgets will fix the fundamental flaws in our education system: attitudinal problems, poor teaching, and teaching-oriented systems instead of learning-oriented systems.
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May 30, 2011 10:43am
Longknives

This woman’s house got tagged with the words ‘Nark’-
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5072801/Child-abuse-anti-nark-culture-slammed
Unfreakingbelievable! Of course it’s all the fault of those evil European Missionaries…
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May 30, 2011 10:47am
Kimble

I see Tapu Misa is another one advocating the free lunch of an increase in the minimum wage.

Why is it that sub-editors only ever label pieces “economic reality” when they are so far away from either as to be indistinguishable from the barely literate scratchings of an ignorant child?
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May 30, 2011 10:48am
Longknives

And from the Sportsdesk- How good is this Sebastian Vettel kid? And why does he get only a fraction of the media ‘gushing hype’ and adoration that Lewis Hamilton gets?
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May 30, 2011 10:49am
s.russell

Manolo et al,
The problem is the VOTERS see Brash as an extremist. That being so, Key has to keep his distance. Abusing Key for that is ridiculous. The solution is to convince the voters that Brash’s views are actually pretty sensible.
The secret of political success for Act is not convincing 5% or 10% of people on the right to vote Act, it is convincing people in the middle to accept stronger medicine. If Act can thus win the battle of ideas, the battle for votes is immaterial.
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May 30, 2011 10:50am
mikenmild

Kimble. You appear unaware that debate over the effects of minimum wages is far from conclusive.
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May 30, 2011 10:56am
lofty

thedavincimode (1,815) Says:
May 30th, 2011 at 10:37 am

wot’s a myrmidon?

Oh Davinci you hired ruffian you, at least thats what I think Manolo is refering to, But I see you more as a very brave and skilled warrior, such as those commanded by Achilles.
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May 30, 2011 11:02am
thedavincimode

s.russell

Don’t necessarily agree. His economic policies aren’t that extreme. Axing WFF and charging interest on student loans aren’t extreme. The problem is that those policies cut right right across the self-interest of 15% to 20% of the voting population who demonstrated in the 2005 election that they can be bought off with the massive election bribes that these constituted in the first place. Going to the polls on the basis of axing those policies would ensure that the greedies went back to voting for the bribe party and we would wind up with Alfred E. Neuman as PM.
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May 30, 2011 11:05am
thedavincimode

Why thanks lofty, you sweet talking devil. My word, you really are a good sort. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 11:06am
wat dabney

“You appear unaware that debate over the effects of minimum wages is far from conclusive.”

Try simple logic.
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May 30, 2011 11:09am
Kimble

Longknives,

1. Vettel won the world championship from 3 other challengers in the last race of last season. Hamilton beat out Massa by a single point. It was a more compelling rivalry.
2. The Red Bulls qualify best but dont race the best, so they are less likely to have come from behind wins (which are more spectacular).
3. Vettel would not have held on to win the Monaco GP if there wasnt a crash. He was slow and slowing and everyone knew it. In Spain he was slower as well but managed to hold on.
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May 30, 2011 11:09am
Manolo

Oh Davinci you hired ruffian you…, but I see you more as a very brave and skilled warrior, such as those commanded by Achilles.

With all due respect, my comment was along the latter, not the former. I know thedavincimode has good intentions. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 11:14am
Kimble

mikenmild, the data is not conclusive but that doesnt mean there isnt a stronger case against high minimum wages than there is for them.

Economic concepts do not always play nice and show themselves in the data. That is why the case against the minimum wage relies so heavily on logic and reasoning. The case FOR high minimum wages doesnt have that same kind of support.

The data may NEVER conclusively prove the minimum wage to be one way or the other, does that mean that it doesnt have any impact at all?
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May 30, 2011 11:16am
RightNow

Something you probably won’t see in Welly, even in summer:
“While on the beach recently, I had to just sit there and listen to this woman for at least an hour while she talked on her mobile phone and pranced back forth in front of me.”

http://niklowe.blogspot.com/2011/05/friday-foolery.html
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May 30, 2011 11:22am
mikenmild

Kimble,

Ithink your comments may be taken as supporting the view that the effects of minimum wages are very difficult to demonstrate. I agree. Should the argument, such as it is, then descends towards ‘logic and reasoning’, presumably untainted by evidence?
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May 30, 2011 11:22am
lofty

I guess you too cpould be described as a Myrmidon eh Manolo? With your pitiless embracement of ACT.

Along the lines of “a loyal follower, especially one who executes orders without question, protest, or pity – unquestioning followers.” (Dictionary.com).

You too have good intentions Manolo we all know that. 😉 and are a very nice person, just not as nice as Davincimode thats all.
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May 30, 2011 11:24am
Falafulu Fisi

Kimble said…
Economic concepts do not always play nice and show themselves in the data.

Correct. Bell-shaped or normal curve probability distribution (aka Gaussian) has always been dominant in economics because it is always assumed that data shows or exhibits normal curve until you dig a bit deeper. That’s true in sparse data, but when there is huge data, the curve shows a nonsymmetric shape, ie, non-normal or skewed.
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May 30, 2011 11:24am
Johnboy

“You too have good intentions Manolo we all know that. 😉 and are a very nice person, ”

Am I a nice person too lofty?

I like little fluffy animals, especially sheep. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 11:32am
wat dabney

mikenmild,

Let’s say you are selling your car, which the market determines is worth $4000. And then say that the government tells you you can’t sell it for less than $6000. What will be the result?
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May 30, 2011 11:35am
Kimble

Fala, the observation that the idea that normal distribution is dominant in economics probably comes from three sources.

1. A lot of things are normally distributed.
2. Many things, while not normally distributed, are close enough for the sort of analysis economists want to do. Of course, those limitations are usually disclosed, but that doesnt stop people taking the concepts and building a grand architecture around the,.
3. Normal distribution is a simplifying assumption that is often used in the teaching of economics. Many peoples interaction with proper economics is only at the early stages. I have discussed economics with a bunch of people who said that the took a class in uni, and all they ever saw was the assumption of normal distribution.
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May 30, 2011 11:36am
Longknives

Fair call Kimble. Maybe I got carried away with the fact he was the youngest man to ever drive in Formula One, the youngest World champion ever and the fact he has won five out of the six races this season so far. He must be slow as hell…
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May 30, 2011 11:37am
Kimble

“Should the argument, such as it is, then descends towards ‘logic and reasoning’, presumably untainted by evidence?”

What makes you think that that would represent a ‘descent’?
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May 30, 2011 11:38am
Manolo

The problem is the VOTERS see Brash as an extremist.

Since when? Don Brash has maintained the same political views that took the National Party to a close second in the 2005 election, despite the dirty war fought against him by the socialists and their treasonous allies within Labour lite itself.

Are you saying 39.10% of the population (18.17% up swing) considered him an extremist and yet voted for Brash?
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May 30, 2011 11:41am
Dazzaman

Yeah, longknives. Was gonna put that one up, that girl has done the right thing and it’s a bloody disgrace what the anti-narkers have done to her. Any decent person would come forward with info in a case like that……

And on to F1, ahh…Kimble,…..Vettel is also NOT a POM.
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May 30, 2011 11:43am
Kimble

Longknives, you asked a question, I answered it.

Vettel is a very fast qualifier (that is, the Red Bull cars are fast qualifiers), but he is not necessarily the fastest driver, or the best driver. Dont get blinded by the data.

I think Hamilton is a better driver. Thats because I think passing is a truer test of a driver. Hamilton is a much better passer than Vettel. Consider the Italian GP. Hamilton started 15th, finished in the points at 7th. Those 2 points were important. He won the championship by 1.

“And on to F1, ahh…Kimble,…..Vettel is also NOT a POM.”

And we do get a lot of English press in or colonised country.
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May 30, 2011 11:50am
lofty

Johnboy, of course you are a nice person, anyone who loves fluffy animals must be a good bastard, some of the most delicious meat I have ever tasted came from fluffy beasts.

I am in a very good mood today and everyone is a nice person 😉

God I love it when I feel like this 😉 I just want to tear the scab off a 40oz and visit my special place……… ah well back to work. The 40oz will have to wait.
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May 30, 2011 11:51am
Johnboy

Thanks lofty you have just given a nice warm fuzzy wuzzy glow sort of feeling but I will never eat my lovely friend Flossy O’Vine, well not till Xmas anyway.
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May 30, 2011 11:55am
mikenmild

Kimble

Sorry to confuse you with ironic comment.

Wat

I presume you seek the answer that this would reduce the sales figures for cars. That may be right. That does not necessarily mean that legislating a minimum price of labour will automatically reduce employment. That may be one effect; but it is simply that case that this effect does not show up empirically when the question has been studied. It may be that the price of labour is only one of many factors. Other measures that could affect the employment market would be such things as benefit levels, health and safety legislation and statutory prohibition of child labour and slavery. That does not necessarily mean that we should ‘reform’ all these things.
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May 30, 2011 12:00pm
Lance

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/9540235/teen-loses-appeal-against-14-year-jail-term/

There are complaints about too many perps in prison in NZ
They aint there for ‘nickin lollies from Wollies’
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May 30, 2011 12:01pm
lofty

Johnboy, I recommend that you be sure to eat Flossy O’Vine’s liver, using that favourite silence of the lambs recipe, lightly sauteed, with fafa beans, and washed down with a nice Chianti.

Presuming Flossie is not human of course, she isn’t is she Johnboy????;-)
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May 30, 2011 12:02pm
Johnboy

To me she almost is lofty. 🙂

Still needs must when the devil kicks over your stewpot, I’ll try the liver dish as an entree before the Xmas roast perhaps.
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May 30, 2011 12:07pm
nasska

Johnboy & Lofty

Where will this all end. Peace & love, fluffy kittens & a chorus of Kumbaya.

Just doesn’t seem like Kiwiblog at all.
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May 30, 2011 12:08pm
Dazzaman

Oh, let me put it another way, Vettels a German. Enuff said.
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May 30, 2011 12:14pm
Kimble

mikenmild, next time you want to be sarcastic on the internet you should use a ‘smiley’ to show it: )+(
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May 30, 2011 12:18pm
lofty

Ahh hello nasska, you too can join our Monday lovefest my boy, or girl, and welcome 😉

Funny you should mention Kumbaya.. I see that the Greens are looking down the barrel of 10% this election, may give them up to 15 MP’s,.

THATS IT!!!!! love fest over I have just scared myself shitless with those figures.
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May 30, 2011 12:20pm
AlphaKiwi

Let’s quit the bitching and moaning about education and find decent resources.

Here is Khan Academy: http://www.khanacademy.org/

It’s awesome and it’s free! Bill Gates supports it, too.

What other good online education resources are there?
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May 30, 2011 12:21pm
Manolo

I see that the Greens are looking down the barrel of 10% this election..

Jeepers. NZ must be scraping the bottom of the barrell if there are so many gullible voters prepared to prop the Luddites and their deranged socialist policies.

Welcome back to the Dark Ages or Third World, here we go.
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May 30, 2011 12:25pm
lofty

At last we agree Manolo 😉
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May 30, 2011 12:31pm
Viking2

Sothe Baganatar is going to run for Epsom. That will make it interesting. Afraid Brash is tatically inept along with his board.
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May 30, 2011 12:33pm
wat dabney

mikenmild,

“That does not necessarily mean that legislating a minimum price of labour will automatically reduce employment.”

Not automatically, no. But clearly we can’t raise the minimum wage to $1000 per hour and all become rich.

So obviously a minimum wage can cause unemployment, it’s just an empirical matter of establishing how much unemployment is caused by different enforced wage rates.

Proponents of any particular minimum wage rate have a moral duty to identify and justify the additional unemployment that will result from their coercive intervention, in my opinion. But they never do.

The problem is that slimy low-life politicians cynically use such leglislation to score political points – showing how much they “care” – fully aware of the damage they are actually doing to the unskilled workers they claim to be supporting. They know that the victims of their actions will usually never identify minimum wage legislation as the cause of their unemployment.
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May 30, 2011 12:48pm
Elaycee

Longknives 11.37am says: “Fair call Kimble. Maybe I got carried away with the fact he was the youngest man to ever drive in Formula One, the youngest World champion ever and the fact he has won five out of the six races this season so far. He must be slow as hell…”

Not quite.

The youngest is actually Jaime Alguersuari who was 19 years, 125 days when he started at the 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix. The next youngest was Kiwi Mike Thackwell – he was 19 years, 182 days when he started at the 1980 Canadian Grand Prix. By comparison, Sebastian Vettel was 19 years, 349 days when he started at the 2007 United States Grand Prix. However, Vettel did drive at a Grand Prix meeting when he was 19 years and 54 days, but he did not start the race. Much like NZ’s Brendon Hartley when he tested for the Red Bull team 2 seasons ago but he didn’t start a race either.

The reason why Vettell is superior during practice trim is quite obvious – Red Bull has a better package during practice on the option tyres compared to the others. The reason is the aero package (especially the diffuser and rear wing combo). McLaren has taken a long time to get their aero package working well, but when the tanks are full and they use the harder compound tyre, the gap between Red Bull and the rest is very narrow. McLaren has a better KERS system than anyone but there can be no doubt that, on tracks where overtaking is v-e-r-y difficult (esp Monaco) the car that starts at the front will usually win unless there is a botch up in the pits.

Vettel is good – no doubt. But the Red Bull / Horner / Vettel combination is the reason they are winning at the moment.
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May 30, 2011 1:04pm
Pete George

thedavincimode at 11:05 am – Axing WFF and charging interest on student loans aren’t extreme.

Theoretically they’re not extreme, but if they were suddenly changed the effects would be extreme and in some ways unfair on many people.

Giving is easy, taking away would be bloody drastic for people who now rely on it.
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May 30, 2011 1:06pm
Jimbob

Four big nations will not be signing any new kyoto protocol, which are Russia, Japan, Canada and the USA. So the annual meeting of the UN’s framework convention on climate change later this year in South Africa will be a non event. So basically the Kyoto is dead and any ETS scheme is a farce.
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May 30, 2011 1:14pm
TripeWryter

The New Zealand Herald tells us that Murray Mexted will be back on Sky’s commentary team for the world cup.

‘About bloody time.

I’ve missed ‘Mex’.
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May 30, 2011 1:18pm
Manolo

So basically the Kyoto is dead and any ETS scheme is a farce.

Not only a farce, but a stinking new tax too. Time for Key and Smith to reconsider….yeah right.
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May 30, 2011 1:20pm
cha

Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal

We don’t want the West to go and find alternatives, because, clearly, the higher the price of oil goes, the more they have incentives to go and find alternatives
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May 30, 2011 1:40pm
thedavincimode

“would be bloody drastic for people who now rely on it”

PG, that all depends on where people sit on the income scale and who should be paying for their decisions to breed or other lifestyle choices. You will recall all the kerfuffle here about the latter when WFF greedies pedalled their implausible and self-interested line that they fulfilled a useful role in society by breeding and ought to be paid to do so.

Furthermore, anyone with one or more cars in the driveway, a personal cell phone, Sky TV, a boat, an annual holiday away, who smokes and drinks shouldn’t be getting a taxpayer hand-out.

There are some interesting technologies that have been around throughout the last century and came in quite useful during the depression and WWII and subsequently. These can be just as relevant today and include: feet, the bicycle, the bus, the radio and the vege garden and not buying a house that you can’t afford without a subsidy. Times were tough then but nobody expected someone else to bail them out.

The problem they now have is that the tax rate structure is far too high because the money that Liabore stole off them got pissed down the dunny. But as far as I’m concerned (yes, that’s you the 15% swingers) it serves you right for being so utterly stupid as to vote for a bunch of arseholes who over-taxed you and then give you some your own money back to get your vote, and then spent the rest of it on building an economy around the public service. My simple message: do the right thing this time round and don’t be selfish and greedy or just fuck off into a lifetime of dependence on the poor pricks that have to pay to support you, never achieve anything and never be able to look anyone straight in the eye to deny that you’ve had an entire lifetime on the bludge. It serves you right for being sucked off by Klerk’s bribe. You vote for more of the same and it will be worse the next time around and it will serve you right.
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May 30, 2011 1:41pm
F E Smith

In the UK they have a Criminal Cases Review Commission to review alleged miscarriages of justice and bring them back to the Court of Appeal for re-hearing, with a very good strike rate. The previous Labour Government at one point criticised it as undermining faith in the criminal justice system! However, it appears that there are actual miscarriages of justice in the UK, many quite serious. Is it wishful thinking to presume that the same doesn’t happen here?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/may/29/miscarriages-justice-unchallenged-watchdog-qc?CMP=twt_fd

EDIT: Oh, and I DO NOT read the Grauniad, I got the link from elsewhere!
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May 30, 2011 1:45pm
Pete George

davinci, I know it should be addressed, but it’s not as quick or simple as some people demand.
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May 30, 2011 1:53pm
Pete George

Longknives linked to this above: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5072801/Child-abuse-anti-nark-culture-slammed

I want to comment from a much different angle – Cherie Kurarangi Sweeney should be applauded, she’s not sitting back demanding the government fix things like many other people, she’s standing up, she’s addressing it, trying to do something about it. More people should walk her sort of walk.
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May 30, 2011 1:59pm
thedavincimode

Exactly PG; something the ACToids refuse to acknowledge. But it isn’t “radical” except, unfortunately, in that it requires people to be responsible about lifestyle choices and conduct their lives on the basis that they are responsible for their lives and not someone else. As to inequity, well, we’re talking about the people who voted for a blatant bribe. They should have had the sense to know it could have gone away just as easily, but were too blinded by greed and self-interest, Just like the gold card defrauding greedy old gits who now support Peters voted for Muldoon all those years.
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May 30, 2011 2:02pm
Manolo

I know it should be addressed, but it’s not as quick or simple as some people demand.

But a true political leader would tackle the issue up front, wouldn’t he or she? The longer the unaffordable giveaways are kept, the more entrenched they become to a point that in a few years will be impossible to remove (the benighted DPB is an example.)

Key and English knew, and know, the whole WFF and interest-free loans are unsustainable. And yet, they refuse to acknowledge the magnitude of the problem and take any corrective measures out of fear of electoral backlash.
How can you call them leaders?
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May 30, 2011 2:10pm
Longknives

Kimble and Elaycee – I’m not doubting that Hamilton is also a sensational young driver. My query was why Vettel has had only a fraction of the hype and publicity Hamilton gets for his achievements?

Well spotted with my mistake re Alguersuari by the way…
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May 30, 2011 2:19pm
Elaycee

@Longknives. It probably depends where you are in the world – Vettel gets plenty of coverage in Germany (as he should) and Hamilton gets plenty in the UK (as he should too).

But Hamilton gets more than his ‘fair share’ for many reasons including (a) most of the media following formula one are from the UK (b) Hamilton is therefore considered to be the local ‘darling’ (c) Hamilton is articulate (d) Hamilton is a good story – he actually approached Ron Dennis when they both attended a British motor racing awards evening [Hamilton won the British kart champs] and told him he wanted to one day drive for McLaren. Not bad for a kid of 10 and (e) Hamilton is deemed to be the first ‘black’ driver in F1. So he is young / talented / black / driving for McLaren / came third in his first ever F1 race [Melbourne 2007] / came second in the Championship in his first year / and the list goes on.

But the key for me is the fact that Hamilton is currently considered to be a sponsors dream – mainly for the reasons listed above. Schumacher was also a brilliant driver but is a grump and for this reason some sponsors still shun him to this day. Vettel is also seen as a bit of a grump – perhaps this doesn’t help his ‘image’ either.

FWIW – suggest you keep an eye on Nico Rosberg – he is really quick in practice but Williams hasn’t quite got their race package ‘right’ as yet. But when they do, he’ll be right at the front.
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May 30, 2011 2:48pm
Longknives

Agreed re Rosberg…his old man was one of my favourite drivers when I watched Formula One as a kid!
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May 30, 2011 3:03pm
Batman

Longknives, Kimble and Elaycee:

the combination that is working at the moment is purely to do with Adrian Newey and his clearly enormous brain. Vettel is very good and has a lot of talent, but if all the cars were equal I suspect that he would be eaten alive by Alonso and Hamiltron!

The RB7 has so much aerodynamic downforce that it can have the moveable rear wing open for much more of the lap in qualifying when you are allowed to use it at any point on the track, whereas in the race you are only allowed to use it in one or two specific areas (usually the back straight or main straight). by being able to open the wing much earlier in the corner exit, or indeed hold it open the whole way through a faster corner, the redbull’s are able to gain as much as 0.5s to 1.0 second over the course of a quali lap. Come the race, the Ferrari’s and McLaren’s are able to keep pace.

Why does Hamilton court more media attention? He is a character, he is also the first black driver and world champion, he speaks his mind as we saw today with the Ali G. comment, which was hilarious by the way! he races flat out and is more exciting to watch.

Vettel models himself on Schumacher, and we all know how exciting F1 was when he was dominant! (hint: it wasn’t). winning from the front after being dominant through qualifying is never going to make headlines, until Vettel starts passing people in high stakes manoeuvres, he will fly under the radar until championship deciding time.

As someone who stayed up all hours watching the race last night, I can say that Vettel was lucky to win, If that crash had not meant a red flag then Alonso or Button would have nailed Vettel in the closing laps. As it happened, the red flag allowed the teams to change tyres on the cars on the grid, and thus Vettel could get rid of his VERY VERY old tyres for some new ones. they were twice as old as Alonso’s and almost 3x as old as Button’s.

Great race though, and this season will at least be exciting from 2nd place down!

Edit: Elaycee, I think you mean Mercedes? Nico doesn’t drive for Williams these days
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May 30, 2011 3:09pm
Ender

Over at The Standard they are running an article claiming Hipkins has the inside word that Nick Smith will announce ‘privatisation’ of the work accident claims for ACC on Wednesday.

Any input people??
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May 30, 2011 3:17pm
Elaycee

@Batman. Oops – you’re right. My brain is dizzy from watching Monaco, the final 2 hours of the Indy 500 and now a day at the coal face in Newmarket. But agree with your comments re Monaco – the red flag really stuffed the race. I think Button would have won – even the bullfighter admitted so post race.

Early night for this Kiwi tonight…
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May 30, 2011 3:20pm
thedavincimode

Batman et al

Thanks for that. I was looking forward to watching it after recording it but I guess I don’t have to now. 🙁

The thing that really struck me about the RB7 was the drive it got out of the last corner at Catalunya when Hamilton was after him. Even when Vettel’s KERS wasn’t working, Hamilton never got a look in – and all, it seems, because he was dumped at that last corner. Once he had hit the apex he was just gone. After that the straight just wasn’t long enough for Hamilton. Would you attribute all of that to downforce Batman, or suspension also?
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May 30, 2011 3:33pm
Elaycee

@Kimble / Batman / Longknives.

May be showing a few grey hairs, but I recall Keke Rosberg when he raced a Chevron B39 here for Fred Opert in the late 1970’s. One incident stands out for me – Rosberg was struggling to get pole for the NZIGP and in the last minutes of practice he ‘straight lined’ the chicane that used to be at the top of the Pukekohe hill’ and as the car slammed down in a shower of sparks, Rosberg kept the foot hard down until he crossed the line and recorded his official time. The result was pole position with Opert’s crew having to repair the suspension and the steering on the car.

IIRC, the car stayed in NZ at the end of the Tasman series and was subsequently raced by Bryan Hartley?? (Brendon’s dad) – with the scrape marks on the underside of the tub remaining there until it went back overseas and was restored many years later.
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May 30, 2011 3:37pm
thedavincimode

“Any input people??”

I hope they are right. Mallard’s little bum boy in the dirty tricks division on the job again.

BTW, did the little ginga git bother to explain what he meant by “privatisation”? Is it a bit like selling all our assets offshore when we aren’t selling all our assets offshore and retaining giverment control?
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May 30, 2011 3:39pm
Batman

Davincimode: Sorry mate! you should watch the race anyway, it had so many twists and turns that I can’t even be bothered going into or would even be able to analyse!

On Catalunya, I’m not sure, I believe it is understood that the Fazza and the McL have better mechanical grip though. There is also a significant concertina effect with these cars as getting on the throttle maybe half a second earlier can probably eliminate the advantage that KERS and DRS provides.

Interesting note that i fogot to put in my first comment, Adrian Newey apparently doesn’t believe in KERS and so didn’t allow it any space in the design, saying to the team ‘I will not compromise the aero of my car in order to fit kers in, you can fit it in where ever there is space once I am finished’. this is why the KERS keeps failing on the Redbull’s, it is tacked onto the car in a strange place and isn’t completely integrated into the design, and probably has no cooling vents as they would interfere with Newey’s aero. !

Elaycee: If Keke had tried that these days he would have been dumped to the back of the grid!
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May 30, 2011 3:52pm
thedavincimode

Batman

Catalunya suggested Newey is right. From what I recall of two years ago, KERS weighs something like 30 plus kg, so Vettel was lugging that around to no good effect for a fair chunk of the time.
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May 30, 2011 4:13pm
Kimble

No surprise Vettel models himself on Schumacher. But he will have to go a bit further if he wants to emulate Schumachers “you vill pass me only vhen i die!” style.

I think the Redbulls have a trick that allows them to get out of corners a lot faster than their opposition. Something to do with their exhaust IIRC. Its due to be banned, so lets see how the season goes after that.
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May 30, 2011 4:24pm
ciaron

F1 today sounds a lot like Yachting in the 60’s/70’s with IOR: anything remotely smart, fast or innovative gets promptly banned.
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May 30, 2011 4:45pm
AlphaKiwi

Wow! Germany will shut down all of its nuclear power plants by 2022. Big move.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13592208
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May 30, 2011 5:03pm
aitkenmike

Kimble: Fairly certain all teams bar (I think) Hispaniola are using a similar system and that although it is technically illegal the teams have till Silverstone to fix it. HRT could theoretically protest which could cause the whole field to be disqualified, but that would make them rather unpopular on the track I would imagine.
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May 30, 2011 5:10pm
Elaycee

@Kimble / Batman / tdm / longknives

The last corner sequence at Catalunya is a L/R chicane followed by a sweeping right hander onto the main straight. Fact is, McLaren couldn’t get near the Red Bull coming out of the chicane (already been explained about getting onto the throttle half a second earlier than the car behind) and then the answer to the next question was best answered by Hamilton himself when Vettel / Hamilton and Button were getting ready to step out on to the podium and Hamilton quipped “you are so quick in the faster corners – I couldn’t get to you.”

The Red Bull certainly is at its best in the quicker corners – this is a direct result of the aero package / diffuser / rear wing / exhaust exit point on the car. This all combines to (a) create the best (rear) down force package on the track at the moment and (b) the air coming off the back of the Red Bull is ‘different’ to the air coming off other cars and Hamilton can’t sit right under the wing of Vettel as he enters the corner (compared to what he can do with, say Alonso) because the lack of clean air on Hamilton’s front wing produces understeer (not good). This phenomena is best seen in the wet – check out the rooster tail and the vortex from Vettel’s car compared to others. Chalk and cheese.

KERS isn’t used at the apex of corners but rather as the car is under full throttle (and the car needs to be in a straight line when full throttle is applied or it’ll step out). Suspension isn’t the reason for their edge through corners either – it is due to a superior aero package.

In the case of the Red Bull cars, the KERS is located behind the LH side pod radiator and it gets hot = not reliable! RBR has decided not to cut a cooling duct to this area because it may affect the overall aero package. Horner has said that, if they are far enough in front, they don’t need KERS anyway (apart from the start) and based on results to date, he has a point.
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May 30, 2011 5:27pm
Elaycee

@ Batman. You’re right re Keke Rosberg. His tactic at Pukekohe that day would be frowned upon today (and you’re right again – he would be dropped to the back of the grid) but at the time he did it, it took the rest of the grid by surprise.

It would have taken a fair chunk of courage to even attempt it too…
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May 30, 2011 5:39pm
nasska

A woman from Auckland who was a tree hugger, Greens supporter, and an
anti-hunter, purchased a piece of bush land near Coromandel.

There was a large Kauri tree on one of the highest points on the block. She wanted
a good view of the natural splendor of her land so she started to
climb the big tree. As she neared the top she encountered a magpie that attacked her. In her haste to escape, the woman slid
down the tree to the ground and got many splinters in her crotch.

In considerable pain, she hurried to Thames Hospital to see a doctor.
She told him she was an environmentalist, a Greenie, and an anti-hunter
and how she came to get all the splinters. The doctor listened to her
story with great patience and then told her to go wait in the examining
room and he would see if he could help her.

She sat and waited three hours before the doctor reappeared.. The
angry woman demanded, “What took you so long?”

He smiled and then told her, “Well, I had to get permits from the Department of Conservation, Resource Management Act, District Council, Regional Authority and Iwi before I could remove old-growth timber from a recreational area. I’m sorry, but they turned me down.”
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May 30, 2011 7:00pm
Johnboy

Nonsense nasska. PhilU would never attack one of his own kind. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 7:07pm
Johnboy

Where’s SlightyOffWhiteWithTheGiantChipsOnBothShouldersThatAreInverselyProportionalToHisLittleDiddle tonight? 🙂
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May 30, 2011 7:09pm
nasska

Where’s SlightyOffWhiteWithTheGiantChipsOnBothShouldersThatAreInverselyProportionalToHisLittleDiddle tonight?

Kumaraed??
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May 30, 2011 7:18pm
Johnboy

nasska: I prefer to think he is sitting at the feet of his wise Kuia and Kamatua boning up on old recipes from the past to replace the scourge of Maccas/KFC/BK that the evil colonialist oppressors have forced on his people. 🙂
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May 30, 2011 7:23pm
nasska

Q. What’s the first question during a South Auckland quiz night?

A. What you looking at?

Q. What does a South Auckland girl use as protection during sex?

A. A bus shelter.

Q. Two South Auckland kids in a car without any music – who is driving?

A. The policeman.

Q. What’s the difference between a boy and an South Auckland girl?

A. A South Auckland girl has a higher sperm count.
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May 30, 2011 7:27pm
Black with a Vengeance

heh…didn’t feel like dancing with fools tonight but how could i resist your wily charms JB ya smooth talking bastard 🙂

and it looks like nasska’s been hangin out with Maurice Williamson.
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May 30, 2011 7:38pm
Johnboy

Hello CreamPuff:

Is that your tiny tongue poking out I see or do you have a bit of a gap in your Piupiu? 🙂
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May 30, 2011 7:55pm
nasska

Q. What’s the most confusing day in South Auckland ?

A. Father’s day

Q. What do you call a 30 year old South Auckland girl?

A. Granny.

Q. Why did the South Auckland girl cross the road?

A. To start a fight with a complete stranger for no reason whatsoever.

Q. What do you call a South Auckland girl in a white tracksuit?

A. The bride.
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May 30, 2011 7:56pm
Viking2

A 40-year-old Bangladeshi woman cut off a man’s penis during an alleged attempted rape and took it to a police station as evidence, police said.

The man attacked the married mother of three while she was sleeping in her shanty in Jhalakathi district, some 200 kilometres south of Dhaka, on Saturday night.

“As he tried to rape her, the lady cut his penis off with a knife. She then wrapped up the penis in a piece of polythene and brought it to the Jhalakathi police station as evidence of the crime,” police chief Abul Khaer told AFP.

The woman has filed a case accusing the 40-year-old man – a married father of five – of attempted rape, saying that he had been harassing her for six months.

The severed penis has been kept at the police station and the rape suspect was undergoing treatment in hospital.

“We shall arrest him once his condition gets better,” Khaer added.
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May 30, 2011 8:02pm
Elaycee

This warms the heart…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5071328/Karate-student-floors-attackers
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May 30, 2011 8:06pm
Hurf Durf

So then, lads. Kyoto abandoned and last year having the highest level of carbon emissions ever. Will this mean the end of “If we don’t do [action] then death will before us all!” naval-gazing and the start of more Apocalyptic predictions? Perhaps they can orchestrate a $100 million advertising campaign like Harold Camping did.
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May 30, 2011 8:33pm

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