General Debate 26 August 2011

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Scott Chris

Men Jailed Over Pistols Duel:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-world/2011/07/21/two-men-jailed-in-sweden-over-pistols-duel-115875-23284781/

The first, aged 39, shot his 42-year-old opponent in the bum as he was walking to his spot.

I wonder if he got a heavier sentence for cheating?
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August 26, 2011 8:16am
Inventory2

Newstalk ZB in Wellington has a tribute to Graeme Moody this morning; 8.30am to midday. It should be very poignant listening for sports fans. Listen on 1035AM, or choose the Wellington feed at http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz
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August 26, 2011 8:19am
mattyroo

Why we’re not going to run out of hydrocarbons anytime soon:

The Middle Devonian Marcellus shale in the US Appalachian basin contains 84 tcf of gas and 3.4 billion bbl of natural gas liquids, the US Geological Survey said Aug. 23.

The assessment, couched as undiscovered, technically recoverable hydrocarbons, is far above the 2 tcf and 10 million bbl the agency gave the formation in its 2002 assessment.
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August 26, 2011 8:35am
Scott Chris

Wikileaks: Key Says Kiwis Have Socialist Streak:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5509870/Wikileaks-Key-said-Kiwis-have-socialist-streak

I always knew Starboard was a closet commie
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August 26, 2011 8:39am
Scott Chris

I wonder how these wikileaked diplomatic cables would have been viewed, had they been written by the Russian Ambassador.
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August 26, 2011 8:46am
Luc Hansen

I have long warned here of the dangers to peace posed by the oncoming freight train known as climate change. Now it has hit the mainstream: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10747441

The idea that climate change is only of concern to distant generations has long been discredited, and the major reinsurance companies provide plenty of statistical analysis proving the effects are here now, and increasing in damage to like and structures.

In addition, species are moving poleward at increasing rates as they try to escape the heat. Others are simply becoming extinct. This is all hard science.

If the current trends of ice melt according to satellite measurements are maintained over this century, in the latter half sea level rise of about one metre per decade is possible, leading to over 5m total sea level rise by 2100.

I recommend Gwynne Dyer’s Climate Wars as a starter study for those not seduced by the enemies of our newborn, the deniers.
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August 26, 2011 9:17am
Pete George

Have you KBers been dog whistling?

http://thestandard.org.nz/farrar-shills-for-nzs-most-racist-academic/
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August 26, 2011 9:18am
Inventory2

There’s some stuff you just can’t make up:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/08/it-never-rainsaka-tweet-of-day.html
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August 26, 2011 9:31am
Grendel

If Gwynne Dyer thinks things are so bad, why is she wasting carbon by printing a book Luc? or is she/he another one of these do as i say not as i do climate fanatics.

in fact if you think its such a issue that requires action, why are you on the internet? the internet requires power, which as we all know uses carbon which is bad. so you should cancel your power account and internet connection and stop being a hypocrite.
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August 26, 2011 9:37am
mikenmild

Grendel should do us a favour and stop wasting oxygen by breathing.
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August 26, 2011 9:47am
ciaron

Others are simply becoming extinct.

Example please.
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August 26, 2011 9:50am
Lee01

Gwynne Dyer is your standard far Left anti-Israel hatemonger and apologist for Islamic terrorism. He’s also the guy that lied about Bush’s iq. Not a trustworthy source.
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August 26, 2011 9:55am
Lee01

“Grendel should do us a favour and stop wasting oxygen by breathing.”

Ah, the tolerance of the Left at its best. 🙂
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August 26, 2011 9:57am
kowtow

I agree with Luc,climate change is dangerous to peace.

Ever since the last ice age and the retreat of the ice polewards,men with their important possesions such as weapons ,slaves and cattle as well as their chattles such as women and female children have been migrating to new pastures and competing with one another for the means of production.Constant warfare has been the result.

Gosh ,the power of solar energy has a lot to answer for.
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August 26, 2011 9:58am
adze

The only thing good about the standard as far as I can see PG, is their mobile browser support.
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August 26, 2011 10:06am
mikenmild

Did Dyer claim that Bush had a high IQ?
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August 26, 2011 10:07am
Viking2

Getting Sonny Bill Williams signed a mission
RICHARD KNOWLER BRISBANE
Last updated 05:00 26/08/2011

YET TO SIGN: Unlike the rest of the All Blacks squad, Sonny Bill Williams’ future is not set.
All Blacks
Henry still has some selection uncertainties. Sonny Bill’s World Cup spot could be in stands

Even Graham Henry seems bamboozled by Sonny Bill Williams’ complicated contract negotiations.

Having ejected SBW from his 22-man team to face the Wallabies in tomorrow night’s Tri-Nations decider, All Blacks coach Henry gave fresh insight into the big midfielder’s off-field operations.

Well instead of pandering this useless bastard Henry should grow some nuts and tell him to fuck off. do us all a favour.
The prick is as usless as tits on a bull. As usless as Mundine turned out to be.
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August 26, 2011 10:09am
Lee01

Luc’s propaganda begins with this; “Wars and civil conflicts are twice as likely to occur during years affected by the El Nino climate-warming phenomenon, a study suggests”

Note that the study only “suggests”. A lot of global warming alarmist articles you see in the MSM use the same line. There are never any facts or evidence presented. We simply get someone “suggesting” that something bad “might” based on “possible” outcomes which are based “potential” models.

Utter drivel for the mindless followers of political correctness.
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August 26, 2011 10:09am
Viking2

mikenmild (2,144) Says:
August 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

Grendel should do us a favour and stop wasting oxygen by breathing.

No MM. You could just piss off with your constsnt diatribe of unmitigated rubbish, take your sleeping partner Luc with you and the rest of us could enjoy kwiwblog without your luntic rantings.
You could both start your own blog and spend your life convincing yourselves and the other six of you who beleive your bullshit that you are the only ones in the world that are right.

Its obvious to most that you two have minds that are deranged and divorced from Truth or reality.

But you won’t leave and have your own blog becuase, like all of your kind you are too lazy and you know that you couldn’t get an audience.

And that’s the TRUTH.

Posted under:Lazy, Bluggers, Deranged, not even nice.
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August 26, 2011 10:17am
RightNow

The cost of a carbon tax in Australia – $650 billion over 30 years: the reduction in CO2 emissions? None.

AUSTRALIAN businesses and households will have to send about $650 billion overseas between 2020 and 2050 to buy permission to keep some of our coal-fired power stations and other industries operating.

This staggering cost is indicated in the fine print of the Treasury modelling of the Government’s carbon dioxide tax and subsequent emissions trading scheme.

The $650 billion will be to buy “permits” to emit CO2.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/staggering-cost-of-co2-permits-revealed/story-fn7j19iv-1226122430767
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August 26, 2011 10:18am
mikenmild

V2

Maybe SBW is just hoping to get a RWC winners’ medal to boost his legend and price tag. He may get one without even playing a game at the tournament.
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August 26, 2011 10:19am
Viking2

Best Idea I have seen for years.

Cyclists could pay for safer roads: Coroner
By Natalie Akoorie
5:30 AM Friday Aug 26, 2011

A coroner investigating the deaths of three Waikato cyclists has suggested cyclists could be charged levies in future to pay for safety measures to reduce the cyclist road toll.

But cyclists have labelled it a “kneejerk reaction” that is unfair to bike-riders who already pay more than their share in road-user charges.

At an inquest into last November’s fatal accident, in which Kristy King lost control of her car hitting the three cyclists south of Morrinsville, coroner Gordon Matenga put it to witnesses that safer roads for cyclists would cost more money.
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August 26, 2011 10:21am
RightNow

Luc, why didn’t you quote this from the Herald article?
“The naturally recurring weather system”

propagandist
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August 26, 2011 10:21am
Lee01

I’m old enough to remember when we were being warned about the coming apocalypse due to an imminint new ice age. John Ansell recently had a good pic showing a Time magazine cover with the dire ice age warning featured, next to a more recent one with virtually the same dire warning, but updated to warming.

The West is certainly headed for a major crisis, but it has nothing to do with weather.
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August 26, 2011 10:23am
Lee01

“The naturally recurring weather system”

Yeah, I noticed that one as well.
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August 26, 2011 10:26am
Elaycee

Viking2 says (ever so eloquently): “No MM. You could just piss off with your constant diatribe of unmitigated rubbish, take your sleeping partner Luc with you and the rest of us could enjoy kiwiblog without your lunatic rantings. You could both start your own blog and spend your life convincing yourselves and the other six of you who believe your bullshit that you are the only ones in the world that are right. Its obvious to most that you two have minds that are deranged and divorced from Truth or reality. But you won’t leave and have your own blog because, like all of your kind you are too lazy and you know that you couldn’t get an audience. And that’s the TRUTH. Posted under:Lazy, Bludgers, Deranged, not even nice.”

Kar…..ching!

Post of the month. 😛
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August 26, 2011 10:28am
RightNow

mikenmild: “Did Dyer claim that Bush had a high IQ?”

Initially he only got a Bachelor of Arts from Yale, and I agree that’s no indication of having intelligence.
He must have wised up later, when he got his MBA at Harvard Business School.
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August 26, 2011 10:31am
Luc Hansen

# ciaron (801) Says:
August 26th, 2011 at 9:50 am

Others are simply becoming extinct.

Example please.

What’s your problem, ciaron, the cat eat your google fingers?

This from the hotbed of leftist, world government propaganda:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/idUS241717675720110428
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August 26, 2011 10:33am
Scott Chris

If SBW spends most of the tournament in the stands, it will prove to me that selectors’ conservatism is a symptom of early dementia. I suspect Henry is keeping his powder dry.
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August 26, 2011 10:36am
Lee01

Ah Reuters, that bastion of objective, non-political news reporting…

Yeah right.
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August 26, 2011 10:36am
mikenmild

V2

DPF blogged a few weeks ago on the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport Funding, which sets out funding for the next ten years.

Spending on new roads will cost $1. billion in 2011/12, rising to between $1.3 and $1.7 billion by 2021/22. Walking and cycling initatives are forecast to rise from $15 million to between $16 and $36 million. Even a very minor shift in priorities would allow a significant boost to building safe cycle lanes.
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August 26, 2011 10:37am
tom hunter

So now the warming socialists are appealing to nationalists and militarists about The Other appearing over the horizon?

That seems a good historical fit.
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August 26, 2011 10:38am
toad

I wonder if Anne Tolley still thinks that the education deal she did with the Gaddafi regime in Libya was such a great idea?
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August 26, 2011 10:40am
mikenmild

Scott

I actually think we can afford to give SBW a run agasint Tonga, Japan or Canada, but he’ll be in the stands for the important stuff. He’s not really a bench option, it’s start or nothing so he’ll have to settle for nothing.
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August 26, 2011 10:40am
Scott Chris

My impression of George W was that he was moderately intelligent, but out of his depth. Much like Obama. And Palin. And Bachmann.
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August 26, 2011 10:42am
mikenmild

toad

Let’s be fair to Anne, she probably doesn’t even know where Libya is.
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August 26, 2011 10:42am
Luc Hansen

LAC

You would miss me too much.

How else would you get all that latent aggression out of your system?

It’s interesting how personal abuse, misrepresentation and the motive fallacy are all deployed against relatively uncontroversial research. Of course, these are the standard tactics of deniers of any stripe, having been also deployed against evolution and anti-tobacco scientists.

Naomi Orsekes “Merchants of Doom” should be required reading for those willing to face up to the havoc our carbon bomb is about to wreak on the planet.

Yes, Enso is a naturally recurring weather pattern, that’s partly the point. As non-naturally recurring events continue to bombard the planet reactions will be even more dire, including the strong possibility of nuclear attacks over water. The many hotspots include Israel and its neighbours, India/Pakistan/China, China/Russia.

Now I’m off to take my toddler out. I’ll give all you baby-haters a wide berth, I promise.
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August 26, 2011 10:43am
badmac

Sorry Viking, you are out of line, there was no need for the personal abuse you aimed at MM. Yes he has a different opinion and one I am often (but nit award) on the opposite side of, but he’s entitled to post his thoughts just as you are entitled to ignore them, it’s just a blog site.

MM, You may not realize how far you have shifted but stay long enough and people here will have you voting ACT and I do enjoy some of your more measured posts.
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August 26, 2011 10:47am
Pete George

My impression of George W was that he was moderately intelligent, but out of his depth. Much like Obama. And Palin. And Bachmann.

Do you think it’s possible to find anyone in depth enough to be able to handle the US political, financial and military system?
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August 26, 2011 10:48am
Scott Chris

mikenmild

I disagree. SBW’s peripheral vision and dexterity is the best I’ve seen in any code. Smith and Henry at least, are not in the consevative Mains mould. (God Mains used to waste Jonah). I expect to see SBW, Slade, Weepu and Tooeava on the bench for the final, SBW to come on before half time.
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August 26, 2011 10:50am
RightNow

toad – what’s the problem with the education deal? Do you have something against the Libyan people? Why shouldn’t some of them come here to further their education?
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August 26, 2011 10:50am
Inventory2

I think they’ll play the full-strength side in the match against Tonga, mix it up a bit for Japan, and settle back to the full-strength side for France, Canada and beyond, barring injuries.
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August 26, 2011 10:50am
Scott Chris

“Do you think it’s possible to find anyone in depth enough to be able to handle the US political, financial and military system?”

Pete – Clinton (Bill that is) or Ron Paul perhaps. Problem with Bill though, was his arrogance. Oh, and I think John Key would make a good president.
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August 26, 2011 10:55am
Lee01

“I do enjoy some of your more measured posts.”

Er…where are those?
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August 26, 2011 10:56am
Lee01

I have a lot of respect for Ron Paul, but I do wonder if his foreign and defense policies are realistic in todays world.
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August 26, 2011 10:58am
mikenmild

IV2

I’d go with that. The last (five, hopefully) games from France on are over 4 weeks, so I don’t think it’s too much to ask most players to front for those.
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August 26, 2011 10:58am
Lee01

Back to the issue of climate change.

I generally find myself disagreeing with both poles of the debate. Luc’s Orwellian New-Speak comrades would have us swallow the whole AGW theory in its most extreme form with a whif of critical thinking. On the other hand, there is at least enough evidence to suggest that SOMETHING may be happenning with regards to weather patterns.

Thats why I think National was right to go ahead with the ETS, for now.
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August 26, 2011 11:03am
Scott Chris

badmac

I had noticed MM becoming a little more intolerant lately:

“Grendel should do us a favour and stop wasting oxygen by breathing.”

Shaping up nicely for an ACT recruit. 😉
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August 26, 2011 11:05am
Elaycee

Luc’s latest pearl: “It’s interesting how personal abuse, misrepresentation and the motive fallacy are all deployed against relatively uncontroversial research.”

This from the same Luc who believes that anyone with a differing view to his, is “fucked in the head”.

Hypocrisy is alive and well in the Hansen household.
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August 26, 2011 11:05am
mikenmild

Sorry Scott, that was a lapse. I’ll try to do better.
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August 26, 2011 11:07am
Scott Chris

“but I do wonder if his foreign and defense policies are realistic in todays world.”

Paul’s foreign and defense policies are what I like most about him, as well as his honesty. I’m not as economically liberal as he is though. (obviously)
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August 26, 2011 11:10am
Lee01

“Hypocrisy is alive and well in the Hansen household.”

Always has been. He accuses anyone who disagrees with his views of being a racist/conservative white male who wants to return to child labour and kill “darkies”, then whines about personal abuse.

Before I began posting here I noticed that he demanded that an article he linked to be read fairly and objectivley and the evidence considered on its own merits and without ad-hominem, because as he put it, thats what intellegint people do, then a short while later he totally dismissed an article by Daniel Pipes without at all considering the evidence on its own merits, becuase Pipes was supposedly a “neo-conservative” (translated: a conservative American Jew).

Luc’s hypocrisy and double standards make me want to puke.
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August 26, 2011 11:12am
mikenmild

BTW Scott, I’m not sure your reserve combination can work. Aren’t they limited to 7 reserves? If you have a prop, hooker, lock and loosie, you can only have three backs. SBW doesn’t have the versatility to cover more than one spot really. For him, it’s a starting spot or nothing.
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August 26, 2011 11:13am
Lee01

Scott,

do you believe that his kind of strict isolationism is possible and practical in a globalised world? I’m not saying hes totally wrong, I think the USA is overstretched myself, but I wonder if Paul’s not just swinging too far to the opposite extreme.
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August 26, 2011 11:16am
mikenmild

Lee

How does a ‘neo-conservative’ translate into a ‘conservative American Jew’?
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August 26, 2011 11:17am
Scott Chris

Lee

No it isn’t practical, as a sudden withdrawal would create a power vaccuum. It is, however, a goal to aspire to. Pressure can be brought to bear by more subtle means than military intervention.
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August 26, 2011 11:24am
Scott Chris

Mike – I’m glad you pointed that out. SBW to cover flanker lock, with a versatile lock (Hoeata?) on the bench.
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August 26, 2011 11:26am
Lee01

Mike,

Most of the real neo-conservative theorists were Jewish, as is Daniel Pipes. Thats why you often hear people like Luc, and those “journalists” he reads talking about a neo-conservative “Cabal” taking over the US government. Cabal is a word that has long been associated with anti-Jewish conspiracy theories about Jews taking over the world. It’s no different to the neo-Nazi’s talking about ZOG (Zionist occupied government). Which is why I maintain that the ideology spouted by Luc and people like Gwynne Dywer and John Pilger is just a thinly disguised, “respectable” form of old fashioned Judenhass, no different in essence than that spouted by Hitler or the nutters at Stormfront.
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August 26, 2011 11:27am
Lee01

Scott,

My concern exactly. nature abhors a vacuum, and I fear that one created by Paul’s policy, even if it was gradual, would be filled by China.
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August 26, 2011 11:32am
mikenmild

Now, now Scott, I realise you are an SBW fan, but enough is enough. He has shown ability at second five-eight, enough to be in the squad, but unless you have him starting ahead of Nonu it really doesn’t work out. My 22 would be:
Woodcock, Mealamu, Franks, Whitelock, Thorn, Kaino, McCaw, Read
Cowan, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Jane, Guildford, Muliaina
Reserves: Afoa, Hore, Williams, Thomson, Weepu, Slade, Dagg
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August 26, 2011 11:36am
KevinH

At the heart of New Zealands past World Cup failures has been player selection, the coaches have made poor selections for games at crucial times. There has always been a tendency for AB coaches to become overly conservative in their selections when under pressure, and players like SBW can add that x factor when the more senior or experienced players have run out of idea’s.
I would have SBW in the starting fifteen in all the matches.
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August 26, 2011 11:38am
mikenmild

Lee

I should be grateful if you could point me to specific examples of Pilger or Dwyer espousing anti-semitism.
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August 26, 2011 11:38am
Sonny Blount

Scott Chris (536) Says:
August 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am
My impression of George W was that he was moderately intelligent, but out of his depth. Much like Obama. And Palin. And Bachmann.

er, exactly the opposite. George Bush was a good executive and manager, he made sure he had a strong team around him, he just had a flawed ideological understanding and grew government domestically. Palin also is an accomplished and fearless leader of people, she really cleaned up the Republicans in Alaska.

Whereas Obama is just a pathetic operator not fit to lead a team of janitors. His arrogance, narcissism, and naivete make him a charming fellow to boot.
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August 26, 2011 11:40am
Lee01

Mike,

Try reading. I find that works for me. Perhaps you should start by re-reading the post I made that your responding to as you seem to have totally missed what I said.
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August 26, 2011 11:49am
mikenmild

Lee

You are the one that said ‘ideology spouted … Pilger is just a thinly disguised, “respectable” form of old fashioned Judenhass’. I have read a lot of Pilger’s stuff (I’m not so familiar with Dwyer), and I beg to disagree. But you’re the one making the claim, so why don’t you provide some examples?
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August 26, 2011 11:57am
Viking2

August 26th, 2011 at 10:37 am

V2

DPF blogged a few weeks ago on the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport Funding, which sets out funding for the next ten years.
So. ???????????????????????.
Its the real world.
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August 26, 2011 12:01pm
TimG_Oz

Mike, it’s pretty easy if you look.

http://honestreporting.com/pilger-pilfers-the-truth/

As long as you start your speech with, “I’m not Anti-Semitic, I’m anti-zionist”, you can be as anti-semitic as you want.
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August 26, 2011 12:02pm
dime

“God Mains used to waste Jonah.”

Mains coached him in 94 for a game or two and in 95 (rwc year). He didnt seem wasted in the world cup!

Maybe you were thinking Hart?
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August 26, 2011 12:02pm
Lee01

“Lee You are the one that said ‘ideology spouted … Pilger is just a thinly disguised, “respectable” form of old fashioned Judenhass’. I have read a lot of Pilger’s stuff (I’m not so familiar with Dwyer), and I beg to disagree. But you’re the one making the claim, so why don’t you provide some examples?”

I provided the evidence in the first post. Your just pretending I didn’t. I see the tactic your using. You will demand that I post a link to Pilger saying “I’m an anti-Semite!” and when I don’t, for obvious reasons, you will claim there is no evidence. But the fact remains that, as Tim has pointed out above, Pilger regularly lies about Israel (these are NOT different opinions or interpretations of events, they are outright lies). He uses the most extreme rhetoric possible when talking about Israel, and he DOES talk about neo-Conservative Cabals highjacking the US government, using exactly the same theory that neo-Nazi’s do.

If you cannot see anti-Jewish rhetoric and conspiracy theories in all of that, your an idiot, or dishonest, or perhaps a Jew-hater yourself.
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August 26, 2011 12:11pm
mikenmild

Tim

You might like to use a more reputable source than ‘HonestReporting’. How about checking out one of Pilger’s articles and making your own assessment?
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August 26, 2011 12:11pm
mikenmild

Lee

If you are so certain about your views on Pilger, you should have no problem providing actual citations from his work to back them up.
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August 26, 2011 12:14pm
Viking2

badmac (89) Says:
August 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am

Sorry Viking, you are out of line, there was no need for the personal abuse you aimed at MM. Yes he has a different opinion and one I am often (but nit award) on the opposite side of, but he’s entitled to post his thoughts just as you are entitled to ignore them, it’s just a blog site.

There was no personal abuse in that post. Clearly you don’t know the difference.
Unlike Luc, I think it was, who asked one of the other contributors if he “still fucked his mother” ,a couple of days ago.
I too was expressing a point of view. How I saw Luc and MM and their constant untruthful ranting on this blog. That their minds are twisted and they spouted screeds of appalling bad misinformation and engaged in space filling because they don’t either have to pay for the paper nor the blog space or costs.I invited them to establish their own where they can air those warped views to people who could may be be interested. It’s a free world and they can do that.

You see I criticised their attitudes, their mode of thinking, their modus opperandi but no where did I say they were bad people, nowhere did I say nasty things about their personalities nor did I invite MM to give up breathing as he did to Grendall here.

mikenmild (2,157) Says:
August 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

Grendel should do us a favour and stop wasting oxygen by breathing.

The last eprson to offer abuse up constantly was Redbaiter and I used to criticise him for that and many suggested his own blog. He has established that and managers his blog in a much nicer way. He too has a different POV but its the way you go about it.
Luc and MM could do the same and if you enjoy their company you can chose to keep it.
Personally I find most of their posts are an offense against the Truth and can’t be bothered reading them at all these days. But that’s me. (and I suspect a lot of others.)

But hey, not my blog, just my opinion.
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August 26, 2011 12:17pm
Lee01

“Lee, If you are so certain about your views on Pilger, you should have no problem providing actual citations from his work to back them up.”

I have. Tim just did as well. Read ANY article Pilger has produce on Israel or the neo-Conservatives. Beyond that, I’m not going to wipe your arse for you. Do it yourself.
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August 26, 2011 12:19pm
Griff

There is the point that MM finally had the guts to say something the at last showed some balls. If we keep on him for another century or so he might start voting act
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August 26, 2011 12:21pm
Scott Chris

dime says:

“Mains coached him in 94 for a game or two and in 95”

Fair enough, but Mains didn’t pick him initially, and when he did, because of the umbrella defence, they’d kick long for Jonah who had poor aerobic fitness, thus wearing him out unnecessarily. They never tried using him at number 8 for five meter scrums, or in a lineout, depite the fact that Jonah could outjump all the forwards by six inches on a standing jump test. IMO, conservative thinking lost us the ’95 W/C (notwithstanding a spot of food poisoning)
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August 26, 2011 12:26pm
Lance

@Sonny
Thanks
I needed a good laugh

GWB left a legacy of a ruined economy where unbridled greed was encourage under his watch.
He went to war with Iraq based on obvious flawed intelligence of WMDs and then his team outed a CIA agent for revenge against her husband for pointing this out. This was not a far left commie bastard but fucking Republicans! What a treasonous act.
State sanctioned torture of uncharged detainees under his watch. Imagine the screams of outrage if this was done on a similar scale by a foreign power upon peoples of the west.

This guy set back the US’s place in the world by decades, maybe even permanently as other powers rise at the fall of the US economy.

Maybe the US would have been better off with a President who couldn’t organize a team of janitors, can’t see how it could be more fucked up than it is now.
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August 26, 2011 12:30pm
thedavincimode

I’m sorry, did somebody suggest George had an IQ?

“Back to the issue of climate change.”

Welcome to Punksatawny (sp?).
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August 26, 2011 12:42pm
Lee01

Proof of Pilger’s lies concerning Israel:

“http://blog.z-word.com/2008/07/john-pilger-never-let-the-facts-get-in-the-way/”

Evidence of Pilger’s anti-Semitism:

http://cifwatch.com/cif-contributors/john-pilger/

Money quote:

“In July 2005, Pilger published an article in the London ‘New Statesman’ where he asserted among other things that there had been no suicide bombings in Israel before Ariel Sharon became prime minister. The next week the New Statesman published this letter:

My 20-year-old daughter Alisa was murdered in a suicide bombing in April 1995, years before Sharon came to power. Islamic Jihad carried out that attack and proudly took credit for the martyrdom of the bomber. What other facts does John Pilger have wrong?

Stephen M Flatow
Jersey City, US”

And:

“On 2 July 2008, Pilger published an article in The Guardian about Mohammed Omer, a Palestinian journalist who travelled to London to receive a prize. Pilger said he was tortured by the Israelis on the way home. However a photo was published showing the man’s face unmarked. And Ha’aretz carried a story as follows:

“At the end of the search, he lost his balance and fell, for some reason unknown to us. A team of medics, an ambulance and a paramedic were summoned and he was transferred for treatment to Jericho,” the official said. While in hospital in Jericho, in the West Bank, he contacted Dutch diplomats who had facilitated his trip to Europe, and they drove him to an Israeli border crossing with the Gaza Strip. Back in the Hamas-controlled territory, he was admitted to hospital where doctors said he had suffered a nervous breakdown and that several of his ribs had been broken.”

In the same article, Pilger wrote that “Israel is high in an international league table for its murder of journalists …” The statement was untrue, but the Guardian refused to publish a proper correction and the Press Complaints Commission backed them up.

It is unclear whether Pilger has ever written anything of substance about Israel which even approximates to the truth”

More on Pilger’s anti-Jewish lies, a critical look at his sources and claims:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/John+Pilger+on+Israel/Palestine:+a+critical+analysis+of+his+views+and…-a0198354454

More evidence. John Pilger, and the enabling of anti-Semitism:

http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archive/2010/02/john-pilger-and-the-enabling-of-antisemi/index.shtml

More evidence, this time with Pilger attacking Jews in the West:

http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=1242

All the above are articles ABOUT Pilger, but they all link to articles he has written.

Evidence provided.
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August 26, 2011 12:43pm
tom hunter

Luc’s hypocrisy and double standards make me want to puke.

I think you should cease being concerned about such things. In the case of Luc hypocrisy and double standards are part of the package that he learned 40 years ago in Vietnam war protests. You might as well criticise a cat for chasing a bird.

Think of Luc as the loudest, bellowing marcher in the front of a protest crowd, handed a megaphone and list of things to chant – then translate that image into one of him sitting in front of a keyboard.

Once you do that you’ll understand the constant taunting, the abuse, the inability to construct an argument (not least because he’s so filled with contempt that he does not consider right-wingers worthy of such), and the subsequent reliance on others to do it for him. You might even sympathise with the poor old bugger’s desperate struggles to clear the bar, but you won’t be annoyed with him.
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August 26, 2011 12:45pm
Scott Chris

Mikenmild says:

“but unless you have him starting ahead of Nonu”

In that case I might have to look up Tonya Harding’s boyfriend to do a number on Ma’a.
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August 26, 2011 12:46pm
TimG_Oz

You might like to use a more reputable source than ‘HonestReporting’.

Umm .. how is it not reputable? Please explain.. Sounds like you are guilty of your own crime of ‘not reading’ it..
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August 26, 2011 12:57pm
redeye

Can I suggest that all restaurants in NZ issue their waitresses with ‘Suzie’ name tags for September and October.
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August 26, 2011 1:00pm
tom hunter

I have read a lot of Pilger’s stuff…

At least once a week MM provides me with a really deep-seated chuckle.

Journolist? What’s that?
Doonesbury’s great. I’ve never heard of Ramirez
Nina Burleigh is at least a journalist; Breitbart is is someone who makes (up) the news. (That one in response to my quoting Burleigh as being “happy to give him [Clinton] a blowjob”)

On the matter of Pilger, one of my personal favourites was this rant published on the eve of the 2008 US Presidential election, which contained this little gem:

I drove south, following the line of telegraph poles to the small town of Midlothian, where I met Penn Jones Jr, editor of the Midlothian Mirror. Save for his drawl and fine boots, everything about Penn was the antithesis of the Texas stereotype. Having exposed the racists of the John Birch Society, his printing press had been repeatedly firebombed. Week after week, he painstakingly assembled evidence that all but demolished the official version of Kennedy’s murder.

Yes – Pilger is a grassy-knoller. But what’s important to note here is that MM (and other lefties) continue to read a lot of Pilger’s stuff in the wake of such statements, obviously treating him seriously on other matters.

Which would be okay if one did not so often hear the MM’s of the world dismiss others because they believe outlandish things – but that just takes us back to double standards.
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August 26, 2011 1:04pm
KiwiGreg

LOL thanks Tom I enjoyed your 12:45 immensely.

I just stop reading folk once I realise they have nothing to say.
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August 26, 2011 1:17pm
Lee01

“You might like to use a more reputable source than ‘HonestReporting’.”

Which pretty much says it all. MM talks about “reputable source” but thinks Pilger is one.

The fact is that MM will not accept any evidence provided. Like Luc he is blinded by his ideology and prejudice. I have provided a mountain of evidence in my post above that Pilger is a serial liar and a promoter of anti-Semitism, but MM will almost certainly come back with his usual one sentence rebuttal along the lines of “its not enough” or “what evidence, I dont see any evidence”. Because in truth it never will be enough. Pilger could put on a Nazi uniform and demand a new final solution and MM would say its just a matter of interpretation that he’s an anti-Semite.

He and Luc are simply dishonest trolls.

I’m done with responding to either of them.
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August 26, 2011 1:24pm
mikenmild

Lee
I was interested in the quotes and links you provided, so I followed them up to see if I could find any evidence of anti-semitism in Pilger’s writings.

If Pilger makes an incorrect statement about Israel, this would not necessarily be evidence of anti-smitism. For example, if he asserted that there were no suicide bombing before Sharon became Prime Minister, then he was wrong. Suicide bombing dramatically increased during the Second Intifada from 2000.

Mohammed Omer appears to have been assaulted by soldiers while returning to Gaza from receiving an international journalism prize. That this incident may be in contention does not make Pilger wrong for reporting it, nor does it make him an anti-semite.

I don’t know about murder of journalists, but Israel is certainly a dangerous place to be a journalist and cops a fair bit of criticism over press freedom.

The Free Library link appears to be a comprehensive analysis, but while accusing Pilger of taking a black and white approach it is a little slanted itself:
‘Particular attention is drawn to the way he humanises the Palestinian struggle by interviewing ordinary people rather than official leaders or sources, whilst in contrast he stereotypes Israeli actions by always citing Israeli government leaders and officials’.
Here’s an article with Pilger talking to Israelis:
http://www.johnpilger.com/articles/listen-to-the-heroes-of-israel

I haven’t followed up the rest. I’m not convinced that Pilger is anti-semitic. I think he is generally one to take the aside of the underdog, whether they be Palestinians, Cambodians, East Timorese or the Chagos Islanders. He is a committed journalist and that is all.

Tom

Doesn’t mean I have to agree with every word he writes.
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August 26, 2011 1:36pm
Pete George

I’ve just been to see David Cunliffe doing Vote Chat at Otago.

It’s an excellent format, giving a chance to see the person behind the media image we are usually limited to.

I still have mixed views on Cunliffe, he didn’t change my mind, it’s not only that he’s too much ingrained as a politician, but I prefer others even in Labour.
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August 26, 2011 1:38pm
kowtow

Reference Pilger the hypocrite.

My favorite comes from Max Hastings’ Going to the Wars. Fall of Saigon.

Hastings escaping on an American helicopter ……..”to my amazement…….John Pilger (on same helicopter)who had……..”heaped more scorn & contempt on the South Vietnamese regime & the American engagement than almost any other journalist. The irony,instead of waiting to throw his arms around Hanois’ liberators on their arrival,he was cadging a ride to safety with the capitalist running dogs & their Vietnamese stooges. At least I could offer the excuse that I never wanted Hanoi to win.”

By the way Hastings’ military histories are excellent . Highly recommend.
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August 26, 2011 1:44pm
RightNow

I think it’s about time the government did create some jobs. Cleaning up NZ. Emu parades around our highways, national parks, waterways etc.
Minimum wage, transport to site provided from a pick up point. High viz uniforms and tools supplied. Anyone turning the job down automatically ineligible for dole.

Start with say 10,000 ‘conservation staff’, implement a centurion/decurion management/team leader structure.

There’s precious little alternative, technology invariably works to reduce labour force requirements, our manufacturing will continue to move offshore. We basically have to implement work for dole type of jobs.
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August 26, 2011 1:50pm
tom hunter

Doesn’t mean I have to agree with every word he writes.

Ah – we’re having a PG moment here – which is to say that that was not my point, and I think you well know that.

It’s not about agreeing with every word he writes: there are actually two points. First, it is difficult to take anybody seriously who would write something like that – yet you obviously do, having read a lot of his stuff.

Second, that is a standard that you and other left-wingers do apply when the debate is around things like AGW. I recall a prominent NZ lefty blogger sniffing that he could not take seriously anybody who still used the term Obamacare.

An almost perfect example of double standards, but that’s what you get with the delegitimisation game.
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August 26, 2011 3:46pm
jonnobanks

Maybe it is time to get rid of this Muppet:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5509870/Key-admits-socialist-streak-comment

Come on defenders of John Key, do you really believe that socialism is ‘caring’? Welfare in not caring, it just keeps the poor in poverty.
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August 26, 2011 3:50pm
thedavincimode

“I still have mixed views on Cunliffe”

Bloody hell. What will it take PG?
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August 26, 2011 4:14pm
mikenmild

tom
Although I have read his books, I hadn’t read that column and maybe wouldn’t have paid much attention to that aside if I had.

It brought to mind, though, a great scene from The X-Files, where Agent Mulder had a little rave, somewhat along these lines: “I believe extraterrestrials have visited Earth, Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster exist, Atlantis was a reality, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone…”

I’ve enjoyed Pilger’s work on the basis that it is presented. If he wants to believe the JFK assasination was a conspiracy, so what? Not that his comment went that far, but if it did that wouldn’t necessarily invalidate all of his writing. At his best, he can be chilling, as when he asked a Khmer Rouge leader what their mistakes were: “We failed to move against our enemies quickly enough”.

I accept your second point, but would qualify it a bit. Any author, journalist etc can be mistaken or wrong. When we note someone’s error or mistake that can affect how we view other material from the same person. It won’t necessarily invalidate everything. I mean, to take an extreme example, we don’t question Newton’s contribution to physics on the basis of his other crackpot beliefs.
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August 26, 2011 4:17pm
Scott Chris

jonnobanks says:

“Maybe it is time to get rid of this Muppet:”

I’m not sure what you think it is that John Key is supposed to have said wrong here. I would say that most Kiwis believe that some state assets should be collectively owned and not privatized, so in saying ‘Kiwis have a streak of socialism’, Key is quite accurate. Kiwis also have a libertarian streak. So what?

Note: Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned.
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August 26, 2011 4:45pm
jonnobanks

Let me slow it down for you Scott.

The criticism is not about Kiwis having a ‘streak of socialism’, the criticism is thinking socialism is caring. Please don’t try criticise me, you idiot, by putting words in my post. I never said that kiwis don’t possess a streak of socialism. Of course they do, otherwise they would not vote for Labour or Labur-lite.

So dumb fuck, thanks for the definition for socialism. Now I feel so educated.

Here is some education for you, socialism keeps the poor in poverty. Welfare and hand-outs do not help the poor!
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August 26, 2011 5:40pm
starboard

“Wikileaks: Key Says Kiwis Have Socialist Streak:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5509870/Wikileaks-Key-said-Kiwis-have-socialist-streak
I always knew Starboard was a closet commie”

Ive been called a lot of things but never a commie…mate low blow. Im injured.
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August 26, 2011 6:00pm
Scott Chris

jonnobanks

Judging from your response, you are obviously a measured and rational individual, so I’ll agree to disagree. Kissy Kissy. 🙂
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August 26, 2011 6:00pm
eaglewatch

badmac

Vikings reaction was in response to MM telling someone to stop wasting oxygen by breathing so perhaps your criticisms could be better directed.

Viking

If i could buy you a beer over the internet i would, the suspscions and opinions you express in your last few lines are more than just that… they are simple and unadultered fact.

MM… the only oxygen being wasted is on you and the rest of your misguided and delusional cronies.
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August 26, 2011 6:06pm
nasska

Scott Chris

This blog is getting to resemble a lonely hearts club site. First mikenmild/starboard, then Johnboy/flossie & now you’re putting the hard word on jonnobanks.

Next we’ll see reid & waterwoman an item!
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August 26, 2011 6:09pm
Elaycee

The muppets at Stuff have demonstrated their political allegiances again…..

For the record, former MP Gilbert Myles was sentenced today in the Auckland Court. He was an idiot and deserved what he got.

Now Myles was a National MP in 1990.
In 1991, he jumped and became an Independent.
In 1992, he joined the Liberals and became part of the Alliance.
In 1993, he changed to NZ First and became part of Winston’s faction.
He (briefly) came back into Parliament in 1999 – again as part of NZ First.

So what was the headline in Stuff?

“Former National MP Is Sentenced”

Haha – and they claim political neutrality?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5514570/Former-National-MP-sentenced/
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August 26, 2011 6:24pm

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