General Debate 3 August 2011

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Elaycee

On Monday the vandals from Waihopai will face the music in Court.

Hopefully they have deep pockets because I think they may need them!

Popcorn time ahead! 🙂

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10742752
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August 3, 2011 7:04pm
Other_Andy

@F E Smith

Good reply at 6:37 pm
Lost my rag…you did better.
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August 3, 2011 7:08pm
Steve

I will Survive (Song) You’ll be singing along to this before you know it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At first I was afraid, I was petrified,
When you said you had 10 inches
Lord, I almost died.
But I’d spent so many nights
Just waiting for a man that long,
That I grew strong,
And I knew that I could take you on. . .

But there you are,
Another lie!
I was ready for a Big Mac
And you’ve brought me a French fry.
I should have known it was so small,
Just a sad pathetic dream,
Have known there was no Anaconda
Lurking in those jeans.
Go on now go,
Walk out the door,
Don’t you promise me 10 inches
Then turn up with only 4,
Weren’t you a jerk to think I wouldn’t notice it pop out?
Don’t you know we’re only joking?
When we say size doesn’t count?

I will survive,
I will survive,
Cuz as long as I have batteries,
My sex life’sgonna thrive,
I will always have good sex
With a handful of latex.
I will survive,
I will survive. . Hey, hey!

It took all my self control
Not to laugh out loud,
When I saw your little wiener
Standing small and proud.
But too bad about your ego
And to Hell with all your needs!
Now I’m saving all my lovin’
For a cordless multispeed

Go on now go,
Just make a dash,
Last time I saw a d*** that small
I was treating nappy rash.
I should have asked for confirmation,
Should have asked for pictures, please!
Then I wouldn’t have you waving that wee winkie thing at me.

Go on now go,
Just hit the track,
Don’t you bring me home no little worm,
I’ll always throw them back.
The only thing that I could do with a
D*** as small as yours,
Is to stick it with a tooth pick
And then call it a hors d’oeuvre!

I will survive,
I will survive,
Cuz as long as I have batteries,
My sex life’s gonna thrive,
I will always have good sex
With a handful of latex.
I will survive,
I will survive. .hey, hey!
Go on now go,
Get out of my sight,
I’m going back to my appliance,
Cuz I know its length is right,
And if I ever see your tiny pecker peckin’ at my door,
You’ll be counting your 4 inches
As you pick them off the floor.
Go on now Go!
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August 3, 2011 7:10pm
niggly

Pete George (10,725) Says:
August 3rd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

More on the Green policy – they are going to give Working for Family payments to beneficiaries giving an extra $60 a week to 140,000 of the poorest households.

$60 x 52 weeks x 140,000 households = $436,800,000 (per year)

1. Where will this $436.8 million (per year) come from?

2. Is anyone tallying up all these promises and what has the total $$$ amount reached so far?
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August 3, 2011 7:28pm
nasska

A blonde decided she needed something new and different for a winter hobby. She went to the bookstore and bought every book she could find on ice fishing.
For weeks she read and studied every book, hoping to become an expert in the field. Finally she decided she knew enough, and out she went for her first ice fishing trip.
She carefully gathered up and packed all the tools and equipment needed for the excursion. Each piece of equipment had its own special place in her kit.
When she got to the ice, she found a quiet little area, placed her padded stool, and carefully laid out her tools. Just as she was about to make her first cut into the ice, a booming voice from the sky bellowed, “There are no fish under the ice!”
Startled, the blonde grabbed up all her belongings, moved further along the ice, poured some hot chocolate from her thermos, and started to cut a new hole. Again the voice from above bellowed, “There are no fish under the ice!”
Amazed, the blonde wasn’t quite sure what to do, as this certainly wasn’t covered in any of her books. She packed up her gear and moved to the far side of the ice. Once there, she stopped for a few moments to regain her calm. Then she was extremely careful to set everything up perfectly — tools in the right place, chair positioned just so, everything.
Just as she was about to cut this new hole, the voice came again, “There are no fish under the ice!”
Petrified, the blonde looked skyward and asked “Is that you, Lord?”
The voice boomed back, “No, this is the manager of the skating rink!”
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August 3, 2011 7:30pm
Other_Andy

And now.
For something completely different…..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2074301/Woman-with-objects-fetish-marries-Eiffel-Tower.html
http://www.objectum-sexuality.org/
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August 3, 2011 7:32pm
Andrei

If you going to lower the tone Other_Andy do it properly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTDGYOtH4oo
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August 3, 2011 7:38pm
side show bob

Good Posting F E Smit

I see the left are up to sticking it to employers again, Barry has ordered health checks and contraception for women to be free and the costs will be meet by their health insurers or in other words their employers. Gee that should help the job scene. You really have to wonder what planet these people came down from. Do the left ever think for minute or are they mentally insane.
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August 3, 2011 7:39pm
Steve

@Other_Andy.
Did not know the Eiffel Tower had a cock, what a strange woman
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August 3, 2011 7:40pm
kaya

niggly – 1. Where will this $436.8 million (per year) come from?

Well the Govt are borrowing $380 million every WEEK, maybe they can just pretend there’s an extra week in the year? It’s only debt, ask the USA.
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August 3, 2011 7:48pm
Steve

“Well the Govt are borrowing $380 million every WEEK, maybe they can just pretend there’s an extra week in the year? It’s only debt, ask the USA.”
But the Greens have a brainfart idea every two seconds, we can not pay for that. Well maybe some depending on votes gathered
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August 3, 2011 7:54pm
nasska

A man walks into a bar, sits down & orders a beer and a short.
He downs the short, slams down the glass, skulls the beer,
and slams down the handle. Then he stands up and screams, “All
politicians are arseholes!!”

A man sitting at the other end of the bar says, “Hey, watch
it mate!!”

The first man says, “What, are you a politician?”
The man at the end of the bar says, “No, I’m an arsehole”.
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August 3, 2011 8:00pm
Viking2

http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/state-medium-muzzles-monckton-is-tvnz-the-new-bbc/

TVNZ and its unbalanced objectivity.
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August 3, 2011 8:05pm
side show bob

How do you get a one armed Irishman out of a tree?

Wave to him.
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August 3, 2011 8:08pm
mikenmild

Why should TVNZ give any publicity to Monckton?
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August 3, 2011 8:09pm
Andrei

He was Margaret Thatchers science adviser milkenmild. Which would make him very interesting if he was on the AGW bandwagon but he’s not.

He’s like the little boy in the old story pointing out the Emperor has no clothes.

And the powers that be a blocking their ears and going “nya nya nya can’t hear you”

And being as they are the intellectual heirs of Joesph Stalin they are going to make sure other people wont hear him either
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August 3, 2011 8:22pm
wat dabney

Why does the Green Party want to throw young people and the low-skilled out of work?

Is it hoping they’ll crawl away and die and stop exhaling CO2 or something?
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August 3, 2011 8:24pm
Griff

The effort on weeding out the state house rip offs seems to have worked well
How about one targeting beneficiarys A task force made up of 4 person teams with experience in health justice education and social work focused on removing barriers from full participation in society and attacking the longest serving first
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August 3, 2011 8:28pm
Griff

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/05/moncktons-deliberate-manipulation/
read this mike
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August 3, 2011 8:31pm
mikenmild

Andrei
‘He was Margaret Thatchers science adviser milkenmild’. Um, no, he’s not a scientist.
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August 3, 2011 8:44pm
wat dabney

Unlike Al Gore, I suppose.
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August 3, 2011 8:50pm
Andrei

‘He was Margaret Thatchers science adviser milkenmild’. Um, no, he’s not a scientist.

Nor are most so called “climate scientists”
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August 3, 2011 8:53pm
Viking2

Are you really as dumb as you make out MM??

Must be I suppose.
And worse you get to vote and some one pays you. The taxpayer I suppose.
Why don’tT you try your own business for a living. Wipe that smug grin offa ya face.
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August 3, 2011 8:55pm
wat dabney

Is a climate scientist someone who conspires to pervert the peer review process, cherry-picks data to fit their purpose, censors all contradictory information on their public information website, consistently misrepresents opponents’ views, deletes incriminating emails and invents ludicrous computer models which bear no resemblence to reality but which are sincerely offered as the only tangible evidence for the theory? Then no, Monckton isn’t a climate scientist.
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August 3, 2011 9:00pm
reid

Why should TVNZ give any publicity to Monckton?

Why should TVNZ give any publicity to Hansen?
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August 3, 2011 9:01pm
mikenmild

reid

Hansen is a scientist; Monckton is not, so it is fairly easy to see which one of them would be a more relevant interviewee for a discussion of climate change.
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August 3, 2011 9:14pm
reid

mm why can’t you and some others read AGW for what it really is which is a giant perception management campaign with all the hallmarks of ruthless suppression of evidence by numbers of powerful and trusted institutions from the UN down.

When I say ruthless what else do you think it is? No, no-one gets killed but anyone with a counter view gets no publicity and pretty soon if not already doesn’t get any academic or industrial grants either, to pursue “questionable” research which, after all, is what real science does.

If you can’t see that happening, today, now, here, in this example, as well as globally all the time everywhere, you’re a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat, that isn’t there.

As far as being able to discern between real vs fantasy AGW politics and science goes, anyway. For it is political mm. That’s what it’s all about.
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August 3, 2011 9:23pm
mikenmild

Sorry reid, as I mentioned earlier I’m not a big fan of conspiracy theories.
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August 3, 2011 9:27pm
Griff

97 percent of climate scientist support the theory as scientific fact (the meaning of theory gets distorted by the non scientific)
Still to see one major scientific body that does not support ACG
ETS is a load of crock India and China are massive polluters their economy’s are growing at 8%plus a year mostly on coal
why should we give them a huge advantage
I have lived self sufficient in domestic energy it is possible but few would make the sacrifice or could afford the cost
Unless we develop hydro to the max their is no easy fix solar wind hydrogen and nuclear are all massively expensive or high risk
The greens wont allow dams in this country wind is costly unreliable and difficult to get past R M solar way to expensive hydrogen a red hearing and nuclear to dirty there are however ways to use less energy in developing technology like led light heat pumps inverters encouraging the uptake of these would be a more sustainable alternative
We will end up burning our dirty coal so entrenching any postilion the would not allow this is pointless and destructive to our future
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August 3, 2011 9:29pm
reid

mm, it’s not a conspiracy theory that those facts are happening today. We are talking about an example of their occurrence, even.

Anyway, AGW is more about politics for what precisely is implementing the ETS et al. It’s politics, isn’t it, not science.

How and why do you think an ETS is going to do anything for anyone or anything including the planet? Why precisely do you think a tax from us to someone else internationally is going to make the slightest fucking tiny mite of a sub-atomic jot of difference to the enviwonment?

I bet after twenty years of paying it, nothing has happened, same after 40. Why do you or anyone intelligent, support it. I’ve always thought you were a realist mm.
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August 3, 2011 9:36pm
wat dabney

mm,

You know, people notice little things, such as the decade of absolutely no warming at all, compared to the hilarious alarmist predictions of those on the gravy train like Hansen.

And real scientists are predicting decades of cooler weather, due to reduced solar activity.

But if you want to continue with your willful blindness, you knock yourself out. Just know that it doesn’t mean you’re a caring wonderful person. It simply means you’re just the sort of sucker they have in mind.
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August 3, 2011 9:39pm
pdm

side show bob (3352) – Love it.
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August 3, 2011 9:40pm
kowtow

Hansen has science degrees but is not a scientist, he is an activist driven by ideology.

History has many examples of well qualified people acting in a similar manner.

You don’t need to be a “scientist” to recognise a scam.
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August 3, 2011 9:40pm
Scott Chris

“a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat, that isn’t there”

The man is blind Reid. As for the cat, the status of its existence is uncertain.
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August 3, 2011 9:42pm
Griff

Of more importance will be the rising cost of dead dinosaur energy as oil gets more expensive to extract
this by itself will regulate the energy consumed yanks will have to give up their trucks and learn about clothes lines
As we know from the past NZ is very exposed to rises in energy costs
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August 3, 2011 9:44pm
wat dabney

“97 percent of climate scientist support the theory as scientific fact”

This is,of course, complete rubbish.

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/08/97-consensus-is-only-76-self-selected.html

So a tiny handful of self-selected “climate scientists” is the basis of this oft-repeated statistic.

I remember the BBC once did a poll to find out who the greatest British singer ever was.

The result? Robbie Williams.

Yes, it was a another self-selecting poll.
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August 3, 2011 9:48pm
reid

Pelosi says new bill will last only 18 months

If, as Pelosi anticipates, the $2.4 trillion in new borrowing authority were to last only 18 months that would mean that the Treasury had increased the national debt by approximately $133.33 billion per month during that period.

At that rate, the Treasury would be acquiring new debt almost as quickly as it did in fiscal 2010—the last completed fiscal year—and more than 50 percent faster than in fiscal 2008, the last full fiscal year in which George W. Bush was president.

I previously linked to this post which says 80% spending cuts are required to pay it off in twenty years.
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August 3, 2011 9:49pm
Other_Andy

There’s increasingly strong evidence that previous research conclusions, including those of the United Nations and the United States government concerning 20th century warming, may have been biased by underestimation of natural climate variations. The bottom line is that if these variations are indeed proven true, then, yes, natural climate fluctuations could be a dominant factor in the recent warming.
In other words, natural factors could be more important than previously assumed.
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August 3, 2011 9:58pm
Griff

q1. When compared with pre-1800s
levels,
do you think that mean global temperatures
have generally risen, fallen, or
remained relatively constant
q2. Do you think human activity is a significant
contributing factor in changing
mean global temperatures

1). In our survey,
the most specialized and knowledgeable
respondents (with regard to climate
change) are those who listed climate science
as their area of expertise and who
also have published more than 50% of
their recent peer-reviewed
papers on the
subject of climate change (79 individuals
in total). Of these specialists, 96.2%
(76 of 79) answered “risen” to question 1
and 97.4% (75 of 77) answered yes to question
2.
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/ssi/DoranEOS09.pdf
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August 3, 2011 10:00pm
reid

The one thing that almost everyone did agree with was how “idiotic”, “moronic”, “pathetic”, “self-serving”, “arrogant”, and “scary” President Obama’s role was during the process.

Those are actual descriptions used against the president, and most of them came from Democrats.

Everyone stunned over how little Barack Obama understands about anything. Told Harry Reid came out of a meeting with Obama over the weekend “visibly shaking” he was so angry at how little the president seemed to care about the process and related details of the agreement, and how flip and dismissive he was toward Senator Reid. “Just get something for me to sign Harry…”

Andy I find this quite convincing:

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html
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August 3, 2011 10:05pm
wat dabney

mm et al,

I’ve helpfully provided just a handful of recent snippets from that Hockeyschtick site mentioned above. I recommend you check it out.

You were saying about this science?

A paper published last week in the journal Atmospheric Environment finds that the urban heat island effect accounts for 56% of the total temperature increase in South Korean city stations over the past 55 years. Warmists constantly downplay the urban heat island (UHI) effect as insignificant…

A paper published last month in the journal Climate Dynamics finds that “The Antarctic sea ice extent (SIE) shows an increased trend during 1979–2009…

The NOAA OIv2 weekly SST [sea surface temperature] data shows a generally declining trend over the past 20+ years since the start of the database on January 3, 1990. Sea surface temperatures are not subject to the corrupting influences of the urban heat island bias in land temperature data, which can account for up to 44% of recorded warming….

A paper published online yesterday in the Journal of Geophysical Research finds “the loss rate in southeast Greenland for the more recent period has become almost negligible…

A paper published this week in the Journal of Geophysical Research shows an unprecedented sharp decline in the trend of sea surface temperatures since 1992…

Paper shows climate models underestimate cooling effect from clouds by a factor of 4. A paper published in the technical newsletter of the Global Energy and Water Cycle Experiment finds that climate models suppress the negative feedback from low clouds, which serve to cool the Earth by reflection of incoming sunlight…

Climate models fail to agree with 5 decades of observations
Could the findings of Zhang et al. mean that the projections of “almost all state-of-the-art climate models” are just plain wrong? They sure could…

A paper published last month in the journal Climate of the Past illustrates three different temperature reconstructions of southwest Greenland, which show temperatures were higher than the present in the 1930’s, 1940’s, 1700’s, and multiple other times over the past 700 years when CO2 levels were extremely safe…

New paper finds significant temperature response to the 11-year solar cycle
A paper published last week in the Journal of Geophysical Research examines long-term temperature trends over the past 30 years at three observation sites in the northern hemisphere and finds “significant temperature response to the 11 year solar cycle.”
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August 3, 2011 10:05pm
wat dabney

Griff,

The funny thing about so-called “climate scientists” is that they are almost entirely ignorant about the major influences on the climate, such as solar activity, cloud cover and planetary motion for example. These are simply not built into their little computer models. So when they curve fit the models to fit the recent climate history they achieve absolutely nothing except to thoroughly dupe themselves.

Hence the private confession of “climate scientist” Kevin Trenberth saying “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
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August 3, 2011 10:13pm
Griff

So the cherry picking distorting and slandering will go round and around
I can not let the deniers have it all their own way else any one reading this blog will think that the right are all loopy and go and vote Green
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August 3, 2011 10:14pm
Griff

http://oae.sagepub.com/content/24/1/3.abstract
This article analyzes the extent to which two institutional logics around climate change—the climate change “convinced” and the climate change “skeptical” logics—are truly competing or talking past each other in a way that can be described as a logic schism. Drawing on the concept of framing from social movement theory, it uses qualitative field observations from the largest climate deniers conference in the United States and a data set of almost 800 op-eds from major news outlets over a 2-year period to examine how convinced and skeptical arguments of opposing logics employ frames and issue categories to make arguments about climate change. This article finds that the two logics are engaging in different debates on similar issues with the former focusing on solutions while the latter debates the definition of the problem. It concludes that the debate appears to be reaching a level of polarization where one might begin to question whether meaningful dialogue and problem solving has become unavailable to participants. The implications of such a logic schism is a shift from an integrative debate focused on addressing interests, to a distributive battle over concessionary agreements with each side pursuing its goals by demonizing the other. Avoiding such an outcome requires the activation of, as yet, dormant “broker” categories (technology, religion, and national security), the redefinition of existing ones (science, economics, risk, ideology), and the engagement of effective “climate brokers” to deliver them.
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August 3, 2011 10:19pm
wat dabney

Griff,

Anyone reading this blog might follow up those scientific references I provided, which completely contradict the alarmism. And find that that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

They might learn that there hasn’t been any warming for a decade (something they’ll never hear from the MSM.)

They might see Trenberth’s private confession that they are peddling a lie.

But why is it that you are unable to post evidence for your AGW theory here, whilst I can post no end of sound evidence which flatly contradicts it?
How is that when it comes to the actual evidence you have absolutely nothing and instead resort to calling people deniers. Sooner or later you might want to think about that.
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August 3, 2011 10:27pm
Griff

I could triple your posts easly tell you wot I will post this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Since 2007, when the American Association of Petroleum Geologists released a revised statement,[103] no scientific body of national or international standing rejects the findings of human-induced effects on climate change

looks like the steves win it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve
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August 3, 2011 10:37pm
wat dabney

Griff,

“I could triple your posts easly tell you wot I will post this”

Oh dear.

As I thought. Ignore the hard scientific observations from scientists of many different disciplines, all of which contradicts this handful of charlatans, retreating instead to a feeble appeal to the authority. I wouldn’t mind, but there’s actually no authority in this case.

Doesn’t it bother you that someone like Trenberth secretly agrees that the theory is proved wrong? That he’s playing you like a fiddle? A useful idiot?

Of course, that’s the same Kevin Trenberth that his fellow “climate scientist” Phil Jones referred to in an email about perverting the peer review process: “Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is !”

And of course their colleague Eric Steig attempted just such a perversion of science when, as an anonymous reviewer, he secretly tried to thwart the publication of a paper which proved his own alarmist piece about Antarctic warming was complete rubbish.

Why would anyone trust these liars? Especially when, after they’ve finally been forced to make the data available to scrutiny (or when it gets leaked into the public domain), it is shown to be a nightmare mix of incompetence, cherry-picking and deliberate deceit?

These are the authorities you appeal to? The ones that hasten to delete emails when there’s the possibility of being investigated? Whose major work – the Hockeystick – was shown to be the work of incompetence and deliberate cherry-picking?

So, the myriad actual evidence contradicts the alarmism. There’s been no warming for a decade. The proponents of the theory have been exposed as liars and incompetents. And you come here and refer to sceptics as deniers.

Pretty sad.
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August 3, 2011 10:56pm
Griff

its been fun wat dabney I can not help feeling that we are the two drunks arguing in a corner at the death of the party and we are really being bores I will continue to not let the nays have it all their own away however enough is enough for one nite
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August 3, 2011 11:02pm
Sonny Blount

Griff,

What are the scientific observations these opinions are based on? Do you even know?
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August 3, 2011 11:19pm
Griff

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/data-sources/
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August 3, 2011 11:31pm
axeman

Many still think this guy sums it up. Roy W. Spencer was a principal research scientist for University of Alabama in Huntsville. Also he served as Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. Spencer is a recipient of NASA’s Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vvObfrs3qoE
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August 3, 2011 11:42pm
Griff

You still can not find one major scientific body any of you. Cartoons are OK if you are a moron. .The observations support the models and reinforce the theory
That full one page of dubious scientist deny ACG while all major scientific bodes and by default all scientist support ACG
sort of proves it dontyathink
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August 4, 2011 12:14am
Sonny Blount

Why don’t you tell us what the key points in that data you linked to are that convincingly support AGW.

I don’t think you understand that most of the deniers are part of your so called consensus. A denier usually holds the position that:

a) co2 is a greenhouse gas
b) humans have increased the concentration of co2 in the atmosphere
c) the atmosphere has warmed over the last century
d) human activity impacts the climate

Its all about the degree of sensitivity of the climate to co2 and what should be done about it. Whether or not a scientific body agrees with the above points is a non event.

A serious person is interested in what the data tells us, not what people tell us. The data tells us that the typical interglacial of the last 100,000 years gets more than 4 degrees warmer than today and sea levels 8 metres higher, with or without humans, almost all species around today are adapted to this. Evidence of warming is expected naturally during the current period.
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August 4, 2011 1:31am
Manolo

Hope and change according to the Messiah: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2021286/US-debt-ceiling-deal-President-Obama-celebrates-Jennifer-Hudson-50th-birthday.html
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August 4, 2011 5:13am

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