General Debate 29 October 2011

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Pete George

Occupy Octagon/Dunedin have claimed the council hasn’t been honest with the public or the occupiers.

Council dishonest over Armistice Day – who’s really being dishonest?

Apart from flouting council regulations the ongoing party advertising may breach electoral law and use of the Octagon as an election campaign base raises further questions.
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October 29, 2011 8:07am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/business-as-usual-top-directors-get-49-per-cent-pay-rise/

“…The directors of Britain’s largest companies were last night condemned as “elite greedy pigs” –

– for pocketing a 49 per cent pay rise in the past year –

– while average workers failed even to keep up with inflation.

Unions exploded with fury after the publication of figures that showed how boardroom pay soared in the last financial year –

– thanks to rising salaries – bonuses –

– and in particular the swelling value of directors’ long-term share plans.

The statistics, compiled by Incomes Data Services, provide an annual snapshot of executive remuneration, as reported in companies’ most recent reports to shareholders –

– and show that the chief executives of the FTSE 100 largest companies earned an average of £3,855,172 last year.

That is an average 43 per cent rise –

– and adding in other directors –

– total earnings rose by an average 49 per cent…”

(cont..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 8:19am
Jimbob

It will be interesting to see what the public think of Labour’s opening address, it was really back to the future. Everything that was bad about our history National caused and Labour came in and saved the day. And now you have to vote Labour or it will happen again. A very, very negative diatribe of piffle.
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October 29, 2011 8:31am
Pete George

Not what they are saying on The Standard Jimbob, they are in raptures.

I didn’t see any of the addresses, except for this summary:

This will be one of the shortest election campaigns in history, but after tonight’s opening addresses it already feels like one of the longest.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Opening-addresses-kick-off-election-campaign/tabid/370/articleID/231063/Default.aspx

Wasn’t impressed by the National one from what I saw there. Mathew Hooten claimed it was designed to get everyone to change the channel and not watch any.
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October 29, 2011 8:39am
niggly

No worries Jimbob, voters turfed Labour out 3 years ago for their negative campaign and lies. Look’s like Labour haven’t leant their lesson …. again …. and again …. 🙂

Philu: I’m pretty sure from what I’ve seen people say here that most KB’ers share your concerns!
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October 29, 2011 8:42am
East Wellington Superhero

@ Jimbob

It was pathetic. Labour, Jacinda Ardern and the Nash family will save New Zealand. A re-writing on NZ history. Will the media, historians, or talking-heads have them up about it? Doubt it.
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October 29, 2011 8:43am
East Wellington Superhero

Polls have National at 53.5%. Good.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10762430
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October 29, 2011 8:45am
nickb

Polls have National at 53.5%. Good.

United Future in the margins of error. Even better.
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October 29, 2011 8:47am
Pauleastbay

EWS

Only 53%, bugger , but I am sure Phil and co can push us up another 10 – 15% in th next 3 weeks , 70 % would have a nice ring to it come the 25th of November
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October 29, 2011 8:52am
flipper

Isn’t it wonderful how accurate the intellectual dummies on TV one’s Q+A , such as Espinder, Tubby Holmes, tired academic Johanson, and their left wing producer, Watkin (also the redgreens), were over the effect of the RENA disaster on the NZ political landscape. The latest NZ Herald poll today shows just how much they are out of touch with the majority of NZ’ers. Time for serious change TVNZ!
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October 29, 2011 8:52am
Pete George

nickb – early days for UF support. National will be hoping UF support picks up as much as anyone, no one realy expects them to stay over 50% and they will need a reliable block of support. And centre New Zealand may need it even more.
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October 29, 2011 8:54am
metcalph

For all the recital of history, I do find it strange that Labour didn’t extoll the achievements of Helen Clark more.
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October 29, 2011 8:59am
Scott Chris

Sex Sting Busts Alleged Paedophile:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/5861304/Ex-UN-weapons-inspector-gets-prison-in-sex-case

Interesting case of “thought crime”.

A police detective posing as a 15 year-old in cyberspace tempts some guy into writing explicit messages and jacking off in front of a webcam.

The guy claims that he thought the so called 15 year old was just some person acting out a sexual fantasy.

Firstly, I find that quite believable. The net is choca with wackos pretending to be someone else.

Secondly, what is he actually guilty of, if the 15 year old wasn’t actually 15? Can only be a thought crime. Scary precedent.
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October 29, 2011 9:00am
Pauleastbay

no one realy expects them to stay over 50% …………………………

I do. Rings are a twitching down in the 5% death zone
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October 29, 2011 9:02am
Pauleastbay

Metcalp

……….Labour didn’t extoll the achievements of Helen Clark more………….

Sorry ,choked on my bacon. We like a PM who forges paintings, leaves her DPS drivers out to dry over her wanting to get to a footy game. Family members sent home from overseas trips etc etc etc etc ………………………….

A legacy that only the likes of Huey Long beats
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October 29, 2011 9:05am
niggly

Talking about history recitals, from what I saw on the late news Labour’s opening address talking about their proud working class history was rather ironic considering for years now they are the Party of academics, lawyers and political studies students….
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October 29, 2011 9:06am
MyNameIsJack

A timely reminder of the political future for those who can do little more than smile and wave.

From Right Wing Watch in nthe USA.

James Dobson, Focus on the Family: “A lot of people were praying, and I believe Sarah Palin is God’s answer.”

Tony Perkins, Family Research Council: “Senator McCain made an outstanding pick.”

Connie Mackey, FRCAction: “I am elated with Senator McCain’s choice.”

Mat Staver, Liberty Counsel: “Absolutely brilliant choice.”

Richard Land: “Governor Palin will delight the Republican base.”

Rick Scarborough, Vision America, “I’m elated. I think it’s a superb choice.”

Ralph Reed: “They’re beyond ecstatic. This is a home run.”

Gary Bauer, American Values: “[A] grand slam home run.”

Phyllis Schlafly, Eagle Forum: “She is the best possible choice.”

Janet Folger, Faith2Action: “[T]he selection of Sarah Palin is more than ‘Brilliant!’ ‘Electrifying!’ and ‘Energizing!’ The selection of Sarah Palin will lead to words like: ‘Rejuvenating!’ ‘Victory!’ and ‘Landslide!’”

Wendy Wright, Concerned Women for America: “Governor Palin will change the dynamics of the entire presidential race.”

Janice Shaw Crouse, CWA’s Beverly LaHaye Institute: “She is an outstanding woman who will be an excellent role model for the nation’s young people.”

David Barton, Wallbuilders: “The talk won’t be about, ‘look at Sarah Palin’ as much as ‘look at what McCain’s choice of Palin says about McCain’s core beliefs.”

Jonathan Falwell: “John McCain made it very clear that his administration was going to be a pro-life administration, and he proved that’s his belief and his passion today with the choice of Sarah Palin.”

Jerry Falwell, Jr.: “I think it’s a brilliant choice.”

Charmaine Yoest, Americans United for Life: “And then when [Palin] was announced — it was like you couldn’t breathe. [We] were grabbing each other and jumping up and down.”

Gary Marx, Judicial Confirmation Network: “I can tell you that this pick tells millions in the base of the party that they can trust McCain. More specifically that they can trust him with Supreme Court picks and other key appointments’”

David Keene, American Conservative Union: “The selection of Governor Palin is great news for conservatives, for the party and for the country. I predict any conservatives who have been lukewarm thus far in their support of the McCain candidacy will work their hearts out between now and November for the McCain-Palin ticket.”

Somethinbg for Wussell Bedwetter to froth about.
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October 29, 2011 9:08am
metcalph

Pauleastbay,

Regardless of whether you or I like her or not, Helen Clark is still more popular than Phil Goff.
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October 29, 2011 9:13am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/4-key-questions-about-the-future-of-occupy-wall-street-comment-whoar-what-should-the-aotearoa-occupiers-do-next/

“…After a little more than a month of explosive growth, there’s a growing sense that Occupy Wall Street is at a crossroads.

“The first phase of this movement has peaked.

And now it gets interesting,” says Kalle Lasn, editor of Adbusters, the magazine that issued the original call for a Sept. 17 protest on Wall Street.

“The original magic of some of those general assemblies is wearing a little thin in some — though not all — places.

And winter is coming.

People are wondering whether they want to hang around for three hours talking about protocol.”

With its decentralized structure, it’s impossible to predict where the Occupy movement might end up.

But we can at least identify the questions that will determine its future…”

(ed:..of course here in new zealand we are so fortunate we can take our next step at the ballot-box…

..thanks to mmp..in just a few short weeks we can support parties (mana/greens) that are demanding much of what occupy is asking for…

..mana more so than any others (hone heke tax/scrap g.s.t. etc..)

..so to my mind…a major short-term goal for the new zealand occupiers..

..should be to help those two parties achieve the best-results..

..if after the election they form into a bloc..

..they could dictate the direction/policies of the next govt..

..should that fail..and nact return..

..then it wd be back to the tents..

..with renewed vigor..

..personally..i think that should this asset-stripping/war-on-the-poor govt be returned..

..the country will explode in direct-action..

..the opposition to this wrecking of our culture/country/society will have little other choice..

(cont..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 9:13am
reid

Copiale cypher finally cracked!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eam0Tk-1FyI&feature=youtu.be

What do you mean you’ve never heard of it?

Crikey.

+ let’s hope our occupiers have at least one i-phone between them…

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/24/2011-10-24_occupy_wall_street_sympathizer_creates_im_getting_arrested_app_to_help_protester.html#ixzz1bvVrjdq9
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October 29, 2011 9:17am
Pete George

If National end up with around 55 seats (quite likely), Act get two or three (if they survive), Maori party get three, that leaves National in dire trouble – unless United Future shores up the middle with a few seats.

Once this becomes obvious as a possible (perhaps probable) scenario to voters it will get interesting – and too late to feature much in the polls. United Future are the safe option for National.
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October 29, 2011 9:22am
Pauleastbay

Metcalf

Syphilis is more popular than Phil Goff, your point is?
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October 29, 2011 9:25am
reid

..should that fail..and nact return..

..then it wd be back to the tents..

..with renewed vigor..

Which will in fact happen, phil. NACT shall return. Which means you guys are going to have a long hard winter in those tents, aren’t you.

Awwwwwwwwww.
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October 29, 2011 9:26am
tristanb

How’s this for taxing rich pricks? Got an email from Air New Zealand:

“Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs in the UK levies an additional Air Passenger Duty for passengers travelling in Premium classes.

“The amount payable for upgrades from economy class into Premium Economy or Business Premier on flights leaving London Heathrow: London to New Zealand – £85”

I guess they feel this is okay, because only rich people fly business and it’s mostly paid for by companies – so it’s a “victimless tax”. I’m glad I don’t live in Britain. What a mean nasty taxing place they are.
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October 29, 2011 9:27am
Don the Kiwi

philu.

The Occupy bunch are a gaggle of druggies, losers and wannabe’s.

The sooner they pack up their stinking occupation, the better off society will be. They’ve made their point, now its time to go.

They are a great advert to vote against mana/greens/labour
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October 29, 2011 9:29am
metcalph

Pauleastbay,

The Labour Party should have run with whatever was popular in their history, whether it was Helen Clark or Syphilis.
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October 29, 2011 9:29am
plebe

Polls have National at 53.5%. Good.
the result…
Dont make the effort to go to a polling station, waste of time in the weekend, and it just encourages them.
Dont bother voting, the pollsters have given the country to the nats.
um didnt someone say the Blacks were going to cream France by 20 points,so who really knows……
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October 29, 2011 9:29am
philu

but pg..how can you sell ‘extended vagueness’/opportunism as a party-policy…?

..i reckon a change of image is called for for yr illustrious-leader..

..tell him to get a number-one haircut/affect some chain-jewellery/accessories…

..he hasn’t reached out to/mined the punk-constituency yet..eh..?

..that’s about the only one he could have left..eh..?

..having burnt-off most other sectors of society..?..(god-squad/asians et. al…)

..and really..pg..i really can’t see how inserting your ‘extended vagueness’ into the mix..

..will help dunny-brush in any way..

..he’s already got enough of that himself..going on..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 9:31am
philu

reid..how much did you predict the all blacks would win by…?

(here is what my prediction/wishlist of how the game should go..

..i wasn’t 100% correct…but pretty close..i reckon..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/commentwhoar-how-i-want-the-rugby-world-cup-final-to-play-out/

i would like france to come out and play a blinder for the first half…

..and for that half to end with them with a healthy lead..

…and then..it being ‘a game of two halves’..

..for the all blacks to pull back that lead….

..to just before the end needing a converted try to win…

..in the last minutes..after heroic/desperate struggles… they get that last try..

..but in the corner…

..and what follows is a nail-biting/difficult kick for goal..

..that kick..taken by that new/young fella..

..it (just) goes over…

..and the final whistle blows…

..y’see..!..that’s what i want ‘cos i don’t watch rugby that often..

..and i bore at the game easily…

..(and as a marker..that aussie/wales game had me wandering off…both mentally and physically…)

..and nothing would be more tedious than a runaway victory for the all blacks…

..if that happens..

…i’ll be outta there..

..eh..?..)

who was closer there reid..?

..has the gloating-triumphalism surrounding that match also distorted yr political-goggles..?

..mmm..???

one-term-john it is..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 9:38am
niggly

Polls have National at 53.5%. Good.

And National went up 1.5%.

But .. but … didn’t the likes of Mickey Savage and some Labour MP’s (last week or so) infer there would be a 5% decrease for National (due to Rena) when the next poll came out?????
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October 29, 2011 9:39am
Pauleastbay

Metcalph

The labour party will be popular again when they get rid of all the professional students, lawyers ex school teachers and union scum.

They wank on about the working man and the ordinary New Zealander, — those spoilt nasty little shits that constitute the labour caucus would’nt know an ordinary New Zealander if one bit them on the arse.

They are elitist with no reason to be elite, they are the worst type of snob, a snobbishness born out sense they have a natural right to control our lives and then disregard the rules if are not getting what thye want.

They range from the terminally stupid to the out right thuggish, – that is why they are fucked and one of the reasons they are in this position is because of Clark.
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October 29, 2011 9:40am
Griff

Occupy is 99% losers who are incapable of getting a job, living in houses or having a rational thought.
To say that they represent any viable political change is naive in the extremes. the reality is they horrify those that they pro port to represent. The only supporter on kb is typical of the lack of nous behind the NZ movement.
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October 29, 2011 9:46am
reid

Actually phil I personally don’t normally base my political calculations on rugby matches, so I’m not quite sure where to go with that one.
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October 29, 2011 9:52am
niggly

They range from the terminally stupid to the out right thuggish, – that is why they are fucked and one of the reasons they are in this position is because of Clark.

Actually (and I’m being serious) I’m wondering whether Labour are actually on a permanent terminal decline?

And I’m wondering whether the Clark administration was actually an aberration to this decline trend, but now the decline is back on track?

Let me explain, Labour imploded during the 80’s (during the economic reforms), so much so when New Labour was created by Uncl’ Jim Labour itself was in the wilderness for years. It was only when Jim (and the Alliance) and Labour kissed and made up did Labour get enough traction to Govern.

Now with Clark’s Labour exposed for what they were (factional, bitter chardonay socialists etc) and got turfed out in 2008, we now see in public this resumption of factional infighting (that Clark had suppressed) and the Opposition vote split between a resurgent Greens and other minor MMP Party’s (Mana, Maori Party etc). But even between this lot they have yet to collectively break the 50% barrier during the last 3 years. Even during these last 3 years of economic uncertainty (which normally would have favoured a Labour Govt one would have thought).

Looks like Labour is going Back To The Past (not the future) and whether Phil Goff is Labour Leader or not, doesn’t seem to arrest the fact that Labour appear to be terminally and mortally wounded. Will this remain permanent?
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October 29, 2011 9:55am
big bruv

Phool

Why do you keep posting shit about the “occupy’ scum?

Very few people here care.

Would you not be better posting that bile over at the heavily censored Frogblog?
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October 29, 2011 10:00am
reid

They range from the terminally stupid to the out right thuggish, – that is why they are fucked and one of the reasons they are in this position is because of Clark.

The only reason they are in this position is because of Hulun, Paul.

She and her sisterhood buddies destroyed the working man’s party. It is no more. Angry nasty vicious feminists and gays now form a rump that will not go away and as Tamihere says, these childless wretches have nothing else to do but constantly scheme and scheme they do. One sees how angry nasty and vicious these people are, all the time. Darren Hughes was a classic. A Hulun protege who thinks nothing of doing whatever the hell he did, to that young man. What sort of person is he? Why, he’s a Hulun protege and was a rising star in the Liarbore angry nasty vicious feminists and gays wing of the party.

Hulun has implanted this into the fertile lefty soil, for the poor deluded well meaning lefty fools are so naive as to believe the proclamation that they are victims of persecution, failing to recognise it for mere tactics designed to conceal their angry nasty and vicious schemes from the naive eyes of the well meaning party faithful. Who are becoming less and less interested in said party precisely because more and more are finally waking up and noticing that apparently it’s full of angry nasty and vicious feminists and gays..
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October 29, 2011 10:00am
joana

Another ship aground at Mt Maunganui.
John Key’s four minutes of shame from the Sunday prog is doing the rounds again in the south and in the Maori community. Many are very shocked having missed it earlier. I expect it will get more publicity in the run up to the election.
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October 29, 2011 10:01am
Elaycee

‘one-term-john it is..”

Haha – brilliant. I’m guessing that you don’t have much success with Lotto, either…
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October 29, 2011 10:01am
niggly

Manawatu Standard have their first election poll out. 400 people were sampled and amazingly 61% are undecided.

17% favour the incumbent Labour MP (Lees-Galloway) whereas 15% favour the new National candidate (Hapeta).

What’s amazing to me is Lees-Galloway has had 3 years to cement his position and lead the race, whereas National’s Hapeta, the new comer, has had to start from scratch (she wasn’t the National candidate in 2008). Whilst Labour is just leading, really it isn’t a good sign for them.

The editroial also notes these aspects (the article is yet to appear online, they usually appear around midday).

Incidentally the Party vote is in National’s favour at 34%, with Labour on 22%. Greens 4% and all other parties less than 2%.
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October 29, 2011 10:04am
reid

…amazingly 61% are undecided.

That is amazing. Amazing that Palmy people are so very thick. Crikey.

What a dreadful place it is.
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October 29, 2011 10:07am
reid

Another ship aground at Mt Maunganui.
John Key’s four minutes of shame from the Sunday prog

Yes joana. I expect Walrus and Campbell will try to pretend it is Key’s fault. Luckily it’s only hit in soft ground and they’re getting it off now. Isn’t it mental that some people are calling for a permanent stand-by capability. I mean how mental is that, joana?

What’s the four minutes about? Got a link?
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October 29, 2011 10:11am
philu

reid..are you telling me you don’t have the imagination to connect the (false as it turns out) gloating triumphalism…around that game..

..(‘i’ll see yr 40 point lead..and raise you to fifty…!’)

.with the election-easy-victory-delusions you seem to labour under..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 10:12am
niggly

Maybe Reid, or maybe if one looks from a different angle one could say some/most of the 61% undecided are relucant to give their vote to the incumbent Labour MP. 😉

Anyway it’s the first poll, and now that the people there have an idea of what the trend is, the next poll should (hopefully) see more people commit one way or another.

I’m suprised though that the Greens are only attracting 4% of the Party vote. Unfortunately for un Manawatuians I guesss we will be the “lucky” recpients of more visits from Wussel and Meteria to seek votes …
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October 29, 2011 10:16am
reid

phil I don’t normally base my political calculations on imagination either, so once again I’m not sure where you’re going on this, but try again and let’s see what happens, next time.
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October 29, 2011 10:16am
tvb

Whaleoil has posted that Roger Kerr has died. Sadly this is of no surprise. He was a brilliant economist, possibly the most brilliant of his generation and has contributed very significantly to public policy issues in New Zealand.
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October 29, 2011 10:17am
philu

“..Would you not be better posting that bile over at the heavily censored Frogblog?..”

frogblog does not censor me…

..( iam currently waging a rearguard action against their filrting with you nacts…

..i think it’s going quite well…

..’cos they have no real mandate to consider such a poisonous-chalice…

..and myself and another are pointing that out..

..if you want ‘censor’..

..you should look to tumeke..

..whoar..!..

“holy not a critical word will be heard..!..batman..!.”.)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 10:17am
philu

reid..how about you try and answer that ‘why?’ question i asked you in yesterdays’ gd..?

..and i’ll keep the fact you are a very linear thinker in mind when directing comments/ideas yr way..

best to be safe..eh..?

i guess a lack of any imagination could also account for yr blind adherence to sky-pilot-dictates…

..my condolances..eh..?..for that lack of imagination..

..are you eligible for a disability-allowance..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 10:23am
philu

“..I’m guessing that you don’t have much success with Lotto, either…..”

are you fond of taking multi-million to one chances are you there..lay-cee..?

..thinking of voting act..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 10:26am
reid

Anyway, isn’t this interesting: Malaysia is to try Bush and Blair for war-crimes.

http://wakeup-world.com/2011/10/26/blair-bush-to-be-tried-for-war-crimes/

I wonder what the situation is when the Malaysian authorities issue an international arrest warrant?

Do they get their passports confiscated, arrested, bailed, extradited, tried, imprisoned. Is that what happens here?

Wouldn’t that be a shame.

So unjust. I mean those two are only responsible for probably, several-hundred thousands lives “liquidated.” I’d say that’s conservative. And are they criminals in that they both lied about the evidence for going in? They both did. Can’t be denied. They both made it up, deliberately.

I wonder what the deal is, when Georges goes to live for awhile in a Malaysian prison, with his Secret Service protection? Do they have to live there, as well?

This is almost as good as what happened to Murdoch.

Notice it’s only a 3-day trial as well. That’s ominous, isn’t it.

Wonder if Mahathir is behind this. Probably. I quite like that guy. Always have. A bit too authoritarian but a man of integrity nevertheless and very very astute.

reid..how about you try and answer that ‘why?’ question i asked you in yesterdays’ gd..?

How about I don’t phil cos I just can’t be arsed. Say something interesting about the world that I don’t already know and I’ll discuss it.
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October 29, 2011 10:28am
Other_Andy

“…..I quite like that guy. Always have. A bit too authoritarian but a man of integrity nevertheless and very very astute.”

Malaysia’s former premier Mahathir Mohamad said there was “strong evidence” the US faked the September 11 terror attacks as an excuse to go to war against Muslims.“There is strong evidence that the attacks were staged. If they can make Avatar, they can make anything,’ Mahathir told the Conference for the Support of Al-Quds (Jerusalem), as quoted by local media.The former premier also blamed Jews for hindering progress in US foreign policy. Voicing his disappointment that Barack Obama had not yet ended the war in Afghanistan or closed the US terror detention center at Guantanamo, he explained that “there are forces in the United States which prevent the president from doing some things. One of the forces is the Jewish lobby (January 21, 2010).
He added Jews “had always been a problem in European countries. They had to be confined to ghettoes and periodically massacred.
But still they remained, they thrived and they held whole governments to ransom…
Even after their massacre by the Nazis of Germany, they survived to continue to be a source of even greater problems for the world.”
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October 29, 2011 10:36am
Lance

I’m away for a week and come back to find Philu filling up the blog…. sigh

I was fascinated to see the opening statements on television last night

National- a little too contrived but not bad
Labour – all about the past and “rich people piss on the poor” – they seriously look like losers
Greens – not a bad address, positive with practical targets and goals (I disagree with many points but at least they had some). They looked like the the replacement for Labour
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October 29, 2011 10:42am
big bruv

Phool

Of course the communist slime over at Frogblog do not censor you, you speak their language. The only censor those who point out the shocking hypocrisy of the Greens and those who point out their many blatant lies.

Having said that, I do enjoy the idea of you spitting and frothing even more than usual about their slow move toward the Nat’s.

BTW Phool, seen the latest poll?….and how many jobs did you apply for yesterday?
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October 29, 2011 10:43am
Elaycee

“…are you fond of taking multi-million to one chances are you there..lay-cee..? ..thinking of voting act..?”

FYI – Lotto winners are now picked by a computer program. No skill required. But when you make wild predictions [‘one-term-john it is..”], then I can only hope you don’t have your grocery money at risk – you’d lose it and have nothing left for a nice Beef Wellington and a smooth red on the side. Not good.

‘thinking of voting act…? If I was in the Epsom electorate, I’d most likely vote tactically in order to keep National allies in Government. The thought of NZ being governed by a coalition of Labour / Gweens / Maori / others, is simply scary.

In fact, this prospect is reason #1067 why we need to dump MMP at the earliest opportunity.
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October 29, 2011 10:45am
reid

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/blogs/john-pagani-left-leaning/5869374/What-Business-NZ-is-wrong-about

“Interesting point,” I thought to myself as I listened to the Business NZ CEO, Phil O’Reilly, allege that increasing employer contributions to KiwiSaver would come out of wages.

Then he made a mockery of himself in his next sentence by explaining that increased employer contributions would also cost jobs because of the extra cost to employers.

Which is it? Is it going to come out of wages, in which case it’s not going to cost employers more and can’t destroy jobs? Or it is going to cost employers more, in which case he gets to make the point about jobs?

One of those points may be a good one, but attempting to make both simultaneously is to ride a horse in two opposite directions at once.

Fuck lefties are profoundly mental aren’t they. They truly have no fucken idea of how it works in the world of work: i.e. employment. This is because, none of the lefties, are ever managers. You hardly ever see anyone with any experience in management. All of them are employees or officials in a OPM-funded organisation. None of them know how a business runs and what it faces.

That’s OK though, I don’t have management experience myself. I chose to go the professional route early in my career, more intellectually challenging. So you don’t have to have management experience, to understand business. Yet lefties to a man, fail to fucken get it. None of them do.

What the fuck is wrong with them?

My theory is that all lefties are driven by the powerful emotion of empathy and compassion combined with a mis-understanding the world is a combat arena not a cooperative landscape. All lefties seem to imagine the world of commerce is selfish and combative. This is why all of their employment policy is predicated on the fundamental misconception that all employers want nothing but to oppress and if possible injure, their ~~slaves~~ employees.

For examples, lefties appear really to think that if it wasn’t for the modern H&S legislation, the way it would really work is that for example window-cleaning companies would, instead of being forced to use all that rappelling gear, they’d bodily fling their workers over the side, with the good strong rope reserved for the vital sqegee and bucket while the poor worker only had the damaged one. That’s just in one small area. But all of their thinking is like that, across the board, whenever they think about commerce.

Even lefties like Pagani don’t get it. Liarbore’s launch last night literally dripped with envy.

Amazing. It’s OK Palmy. I’ve found a bunch of people even thicker than you.
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October 29, 2011 10:47am
Tauhei Notts

To the owner of this blog site,
Dear David,
May I suggest that each day we have two General Debate sites.
One for everybody.
The other for everybody except Philu.
The advantages are that people like me will not need to run through Philu’s bile.
We will continue to give Philu an opportunity to enter in his excrement. I imagine that if Philu did not have this outlet for his crap, his deluded mind might explode. Thus, this site is good for his impaired mental health.
And a General Debate site without Philu would be good for my mental health.
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October 29, 2011 10:52am
Lance

Oh Yes
Labours address on TV re ACC was pure lies.
Lies lies lies

They were claiming Nats will privatise ACC and the rules will change, this requires a change in the act and is not happening. The worst aspect is they know this but think most people they talk to are too stupid to know this.

They have no shame whatsoever
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October 29, 2011 10:53am
reid

In fact, this prospect is reason #1067 why we need to dump MMP at the earliest opportunity.

It’s a shame it’s not featuring in the media more. I would hate for the opportunity to slip by. Fucking politicians would never allow it to happen again, it’s a fucking travesty, the whole affair. Fancy foisting upon us the very system used to suppress dissent in post-war Germany. Bastards.

The CIA probably did it to pay us back for ANZUS. Fair enough too. Red Hulun strikes again. Thanks Hulun. I have a theory with no evidence that the CIA also exacerbated the effects of the 87 crash as well, cause of that. We suffered more than other countries over that. Longer and deeper. I think they set us up. The years leading up were just unbelievable. You may disagree with my theory but fact is this is what intelligence agencies really, in fact do and just because the only time you ever see it is in other parts of the world doesn’t mean these things don’t happen here as well.

Other Andy, I know Mahathir holds those views. I hold some of them too.
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October 29, 2011 10:55am
Lance

What Tauhei Notts said
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October 29, 2011 10:55am
Scott Chris

reid says:- “Anyway, isn’t this interesting: Malaysia is to try Bush and Blair for war-crimes.”

Yes it is interesting. Fair enough too. I’d rather see the puppet masters Cheney and Rumsfeld on the hit list though.

In other news:

More People Killed By Girl Guides Than Al Qaeda Say The NYT:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/5872969/The-science-behind-food

I’ve heard it said that 25% of Americans think that Al Qaeda is a person.
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October 29, 2011 10:55am
philu

“..In fact, this prospect is reason #1067 why we need to dump MMP at the earliest opportunity…”

still seeking out those long-odds..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 10:56am
philu

cunnliffe/norman and peters looked surprisingly good together on ‘the nation’..

..make sure you watch the replay tomorrow morning…

..and feel yr blood chill a little bit more…

..there was conviviality bursting out all over…

..and the comparison with dysfunctional-don and black-suit-john…

..couldn’t be more stark..

..and not in don ‘n johns’ favour..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 11:00am
Manolo

I second Tauhei Notts motion.
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October 29, 2011 11:04am
Other_Andy

@Tauhei Notts

Can I second that?
I just don’t have the time and energy to decipher his inane ramblings.
If his objective is to turn people off Kiwiblog , he is doing a good job.
I am done for the day…
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October 29, 2011 11:04am
reid

still seeking out those long-odds..eh..?

phil you slack-jawed gaping hippy, what the fuck does “..In fact, this prospect is reason #1067 why we need to dump MMP at the earliest opportunity…” have to do with someone predicting anything?

Are you fucking mental?

And you’re apparently scaring people away from the above several comments. This is called “negative vibes” phil. Normal people take note and adjust their behaviour accordingly. However I predict you’ll conclude this means you’re on to something quite important that means you win the argument. The fact no-one is having an argument I predict will be to you, neither here nor there.
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October 29, 2011 11:05am
Anthony

You are quite right reid – talk to a lefty about the 90 day probation rule and they immediately say some employers will use it to fire their employees every 90 days.
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October 29, 2011 11:08am
philu

seek the solace of rip..tehui..

..seek the solace of riff..

..lay yr head on that soft pillow..

..go gently into that long night…

.phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 11:10am
Scott Chris

reid says:- “Fuck lefties are profoundly mental aren’t they. They truly have no fucken idea of how it works in the world of work: i.e. employment.”

Nah reid, you’re doing your Monty Burns impression again. Examples of smart Liberal businessmen:

George Soros, Steve Jobs, Robert Rubin of Goldman Sachs, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and of course, every cranky righty’s favourite, Warren Buffet.

Business ain’t rocket science. It’s about making practical choices, keeping informed and being creative but conventional. Almost sounds like Centrist dogma to me 🙂
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October 29, 2011 11:10am
reid

Yes it’s shocking isn’t it Anthony. Like a mass delusion. Terribly terribly damaging. The only lefty who didn’t have it is Anderton and he did good IMO, with both MED and Kiwibank, proving his worth and his knowledge from his own business background. Look what Cullen did, OTOH.

Scott I’m referring specifically to NZ. Pray respond accordingly. BTW, I know it’s not rocket science, that’s not my point. Der. I’m making a factual observation. This is how lefties think, as is evidenced by all their policy and all their propaganda.
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October 29, 2011 11:10am
Scott Chris

reid says:- “I’m referring specifically to NZ. Pray respond accordingly”

What difference does it make where the lefties come from? You called them all mental.

If you’d said the current Labour party is bereft of ex-businessmen, then I’d agree with you, but your usual scatter gun intolerant ranting didn’t specify that.
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October 29, 2011 11:24am
lofty

Reid you are bashing your head mate.

People of an ilk like Scott have a lot of knowledge, but wisdom is in short supply.

I liken him and his endless comments as such:

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit….Wisdom on the other hand, is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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October 29, 2011 11:27am
Scott Chris

Lofty says:- “Wisdom on the other hand, is not putting it in a fruit salad.”

Actually I’ve tried a fruit salad with cherry tomatos, tamarillo, cantaloupe and passionfruit.

Was quite nice.
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October 29, 2011 11:47am
reid

What difference does it make where the lefties come from? You called them all mental.

What do you mean Scott? They are all mental, aren’t they? Completely round the twist. They have no idea how the world works, in one small yet critical area: the world of employment. The world’s global engine room that produces everything we have, they don’t understand one little bit. Now if that’s not quite mental, then I’m not sure what is.

As for me being interested in understanding lefties, why Scott, if you were a citizen of the world with the best interests of the Earth and everything on it at heart and you saw what I see, wouldn’t you feel it incumbent upon your duty as both a rational and compassionate human being, to understand and thus if not stop, at least slow for while, these complete and utter bunch of utterly dangerous mentals? The world, Scott, is but lucky they aren’t zombies as well for imagine if they not only acted like lefties did, but they also wanted to eat one’s brains. So there is a bright side, isn’t there. But seriously Scott, you aren’t really saying you would actually let the world down on this dire and utter need, are you?

Reid you are bashing your head mate.

Yes it’s not very challenging, lofty.
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October 29, 2011 11:57am
reid

Actually I’ve tried a fruit salad with cherry tomatos, tamarillo, cantaloupe and passionfruit.

Was quite nice.

Sounds a bit poofy Scott. Any oysters in it?
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October 29, 2011 12:06pm
Hagues

reid “Anyway, isn’t this interesting: Malaysia is to try Bush and Blair for war-crimes.”

Except its not Malaysia that is holding the “trial” its IN Malaysia but the “trial is by “The Kuala Lumpur Foundation to Criminalise War (KLFCW), a non-governmental organization” a feel good group of academics who has as one of their objectives “To undertake all necessary measures and initiatives to criminalise war and energise peace”

Once Bush and Blair are found “guilty” by the academics and professors and “notable names such as Mr Alfred Lambremont Webre, a Yale graduate, who authored several books on politics” (oh my a Yale graduate who has written books!!!) who run the “trial” they wont have to worry about going to jail. No the result of the “tiral” is that the “name of the guilty person will be entered in the Commission’s Register of War Criminals and publicised worldwide.” OH NO!!
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October 29, 2011 12:06pm
wat dabney

“Examples of smart Liberal businessmen: George Soros, Steve Jobs, Robert Rubin of Goldman Sachs, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and of course, every cranky righty’s favourite, Warren Buffet.”

You seem to be confusing philanthropists for socialists.
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October 29, 2011 12:10pm
wat dabney

OWS protestors learn something about the real world:

“Occupy Wall Street kitchen staff protesting fixing food for freeloaders

The Occupy Wall Street volunteer kitchen staff launched a “counter” revolution yesterday — because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for “professional homeless” people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.

For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.

They will also provide directions to local soup kitchens for the vagrants, criminals and other freeloaders who have been descending on Zuccotti Park in increasing numbers every day.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL
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October 29, 2011 12:13pm
lofty

Ha nice post Wat.. a salutory lesson in welfare & bludging….Bloody funny if it was not so sad.
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October 29, 2011 12:17pm
reid

Hagues I was using the Royal we since I think it’s Mahathir’s idea and I doubt the Malaysian govt would have permitted it to go ahead if they weren’t in broad agreement with the agenda it represents.

Of course it’s merely symbolic. Of course it is. But I’m glad it’s happening since I wish The Hague would also do it since I think both of them deserve it as do those people and more, who Scott mentioned. I know it won’t happen, but I think it should.

Yeah excellent wat.
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October 29, 2011 12:17pm
Griff

Seems to be some sort of misapprehension. liberal and left are not on the same spectrum. They interact but you can be right and liberal, left and conservative. Anderton was left conservative that’s why some found him a safe option. No new ideas. By the way from personal experience I would far rather work again for Roger D than Jim A.
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October 29, 2011 12:19pm
Scott Chris

wat dabney says:- “You seem to be confusing philanthropists for socialists.”

You seem to be confusing liberal with socialist.

reid says:- “Sounds a bit poofy Scott. Any oysters in it?”

In a fruit salad reid? Only a righty would come up with that 😉
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October 29, 2011 12:22pm
wat dabney

Scott Chris,

The examples you cited in an attempt to refute the idea that “lefties don’t know how the world works” are all Capitalist philanthropists. They are not lefties.

Remember that for all Buffet’s blustering about tax rates he did not give his excess billions to the state but rather to the Gates Foundation. Why was that?
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October 29, 2011 12:34pm
lofty

Interesting after reading the article re bludgers in New York, that it appears that anarchy may well rule inside the “zone”, with a “no snitch” rule allowing violent acts to go unreported, and women “protestors” feeling afraid for their safety inside the perimeter of the “zone”.

One has to wonder how the disintegration of protest will happen, will it be a violent uprising of nutters, or a peaceful fading away into the gretaer community, due to fear of their own compatriots?

If they stay forever will there be an independance movement and the formation of a Peoples Socialist Republic of Zuccotti Park? They could have a nw banking schenme, something like, oh lets say credit unions, or perhaps even better, a communal pot tyhat you just tos your spare change into and then a central committee doles it back out dependant on need, after administration fees of course, cant have persons with responsibility going , ahem…unpaid, can we?

Just musing, off to lunch now with a couple of my 1% mates.

No worries about getting brown rice and sandwiches where I am going….
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October 29, 2011 12:39pm
southtop

yahoo running a poll on mmp. yea i know it’s yahoo but interesting as it may not as yet have been found by the tail wagging the dog brigade. currently running 69% against mmp, 27% for and 4% state they dont know what mmp is.
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October 29, 2011 12:44pm
dime

in 4 and a half hours we have had 11 philu posts and 6 from scott chris. thats one in 5 comments from these douche bags.

scott as usual had fuck all interesting to say. i couldnt read what phil said.
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October 29, 2011 12:49pm
wat dabney

‘Occupy Wall Street is denouncing banks and Wall Street for “selling toxic mortgages” while “screwing investors and homeowners.”…Have they fingered the right culprits?

There is no doubt that reductions in mortgage-underwriting standards were at the heart of the subprime crisis, and Fannie and Freddie’s losses reflect those declining standards. Yet the decline in underwriting standards was largely a response to mandates, beginning in the Clinton administration, that required Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to steadily increase their mortgages or mortgage-backed securities that targeted low-income or minority borrowers and “underserved” locations.

The turning point was the spring and summer of 2004. Fannie and Freddie had kept their exposures low to loans made with little or no documentation (no-doc and low-doc loans), owing to their internal risk-management guidelines that limited such lending. In early 2004, however, senior management realized that the only way to meet the political mandates was to massively cut underwriting standards.

The risk managers complained, especially at Freddie Mac, as their emails to senior management show. They refused to endorse the move to no-docs and battled unsuccessfully against the reduced underwriting standards from April to September 2004…

The decision by Fannie and Freddie to embrace no-doc lending in 2004 opened the floodgates of bad credit. In 2003, for example, total subprime and Alt-A mortgage originations were $395 billion. In 2004, they rose to $715 billion. By 2006, they were more than $1 trillion.

In a painstaking forensic analysis of the sources of increased mortgage risk during the 2000s, “The Failure of Models that Predict Failure,” Uday Rajan of the University of Michigan, Amit Seru of the University of Chicago and Vikrant Vig of London Business School show that more than half of the mortgage losses that occurred in excess of the rosy forecasts of expected loss at the time of mortgage origination reflected the predictable consequences of low-doc and no-doc lending. In other words, if the mortgage-underwriting standards at Fannie and Freddie circa 2003 had remained in place, nothing like the magnitude of the subprime crisis would have occurred.

Taxpayer losses at Fannie and Freddie alone may exceed $300 billion. The costs of the financial collapse and recession brought on by the mortgage bust are immeasurably higher. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has perpetuated the low underwriting standards that gave us the crisis and encouraged the postponement of foreclosures by lending support to various states’ efforts to sue originators for robo-signing ‘violations.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903927204576574433454435452.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Google for “wsj The Mortgage Crisis: Some Inside Views” if you want to read the article.
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October 29, 2011 12:53pm
reid

One has to wonder how the disintegration of protest will happen, will it be a violent uprising of nutters, or a peaceful fading away into the gretaer community, due to fear of their own compatriots?

I suspect they’ll eventually become overwhelmed by the stinking piles of rotting excrement which inevitably arises when the authorities confiscate the Port-A-Loos.

Won’t that be a shame.

That’s what I’d do, were I the authorities, anyway.
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October 29, 2011 12:58pm
jaba

a week or so ago I sort of suggested that I missed philu .. I apologise to you all for making such a stupid comment
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October 29, 2011 1:13pm
Scott Chris

Wat Dabney says:- “The examples you cited in an attempt to refute the idea that “lefties don’t know how the world works” are all Capitalist philanthropists. They are not lefties.”

I’ll put it this way. I am a liberal capitalist. The philanthropists I mentioned all profess to share the same philosophy.

Reid sees me as a lefty despite the fact that by most other measures, I am a centrist. *That* is what I was refuting.

Reid himself is an interesting case. From what I have observed of him, he is a conservative capitalist, who believes in authoritarian interventionist big government.

By many measures *he* is to the left of *me* on the political spectrum, though he will never admit it.
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October 29, 2011 1:26pm
Manolo

How to waste money and stoke inflation: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/biofuels-fiasco_598443.html
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October 29, 2011 1:28pm
philu

“..a week or so ago I sort of suggested that I missed philu .. I apologise to you all for making such a stupid comment..
‘
jaba..!..that was why i came back..!

..i felt the love..!

..i heard your call..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 29, 2011 1:33pm
Scott Chris

dime whines again:- “scott as usual had fuck all interesting to say.”

And you do? I estimate that 90% of your posts are complaints dime. Try Prozac.
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October 29, 2011 1:35pm
reid

Reid sees me as a lefty despite the fact that by most other measures, I am a centrist. *That* is what I was refuting.

Scott as you’re well aware you have never met me and vice-versa.

How therefore do you claim to know what I think?

In the conservative world Scott, this is what we refer to as a “tell.”

It’s like an echo on the sonar. (Which BTW, also registered, also registered your comment. Of course it’s not a sonar, it’s something else. I’m not allowed to tell you what it’s called, but I’m looking at the printout, right now.)

This guy is in fact, a lefty..

Keep talking, Scott.

Reid himself is an interesting case. From what I have observed of him, he is a conservative capitalist, who believes in authoritarian interventionist big government.

I certainly am Scott but only when I’m in charge of it. In every other case I’m quite against it. So there.
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October 29, 2011 1:36pm
Johnboy

I could be wrong but I think reid drove trucks once Scotty and once called God G-d.

Whatever keep up your line of attack.

I’m just a silly old fool really! 🙂
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October 29, 2011 1:42pm
Elaycee

dime Says: “in 4 and a half hours we have had 11 philu posts and 6 from scott chris. thats one in 5 comments from these douche bags. scott as usual had fuck all interesting to say. i couldnt read what phil said.”

Well, dime, I think you’re being harsh. Very harsh. In fact, I think you’re mean spirited. How could you possibly say that?

Douche bags can be useful.

But watch out! The bionic gob will soon be back – bleating about your comments. Most likely he will also run off like a squealing little piggie – all the way to the headmaster. You nasty, nasty man. 😛
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October 29, 2011 1:44pm
Johnboy

Ardle ordle wardle doodle …..eh ? ….. phil.

Just had a ping at a magpie on my front forty with a .22. Missed.

Reminder to self. Go to Gunshop Monday buy .243. 🙂
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October 29, 2011 1:46pm
reid

Thanks for the assist, JB. With any luck, Scott will trap himself within his very own petard.

What a shame that would be. Have you got his address?

We really should put the local medics on stand-by.

Ouch.

(Kidding, Scott. I know you genuinely aren’t one.)
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October 29, 2011 1:47pm
Johnboy

“Douche bags can be useful.”

Dime would know about that! 🙂
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October 29, 2011 1:48pm
Johnboy

Scotty is an ‘Up and comer’ reid. 🙂

Show some mercy!
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October 29, 2011 1:50pm
Scott Chris

Johnboy says:- “Whatever keep up your line of attack.”

Nah, just having a bit of friendly banter. Underneath it all reid’s a humanist, but if he thinks he can bash the most stubborn animals on this planet into shape, then he is sadly deluded.

Elaycee screeches:- “The bionic gob will soon be back”

And here I am again love. Time of the month again is it?
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October 29, 2011 1:54pm
Griff

The word petard comes from the Middle French peter, to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from Latin peditum, from neuter of peditus, past participle of pedere, to break wind; akin to Greek bdein to break wind. (Merriam-Webster)
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October 29, 2011 1:56pm