General Debate 2 November 2011

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Lance

The Eurzone bends over backwards to prevent a Greek default and Greece says they will think about it.

Wow
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November 2, 2011 8:03am
Michaels

United Futures billboards have the slogan “Fairness & Choice”.
I understand Fairness but “Choice”?

Does this mean the they are the cool party?
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November 2, 2011 8:08am
Manolo

The petty nutter and would-be dictator Nick Smith utters his usual rubbish:
“I particularly want to encourage people to attend professional public displays that carry the least risk. If people are using fireworks at home I urge them to follow instructions carefully, always have a bucket of water close at hand, make sure children are supervised and keep pets inside,” he said.”The Government will be monitoring this year’s Guy Fawkes and incidents, and noticeable increase in harm and irresponsible behaviour will result in regulations being further tightened, said Mr Smith.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763193
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November 2, 2011 8:11am
flipper

In its usual fashion, Fairfax (internet) publishes a poll which seeks to hide the actual figures to the frusatration of many.
Just give the figures or dont bother with a poll Fairfax. Forget about the comment and conclusions – never accurate, but no surprise given your “wet behind the ears” writers.
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November 2, 2011 8:19am
Scott Chris

World Stock Markets Plunge. Why?

Well the usual tenuous reasons for the decline are proclaimed as fact:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/5892760/World-markets-plunge-after-Greek-referendum-mooted

The real reason why stocks fell? Justin Bieber’s voice has broken. Germany’s DAX fell 5% on the news.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/5891099/Bieber-breaks-YouTube-record
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November 2, 2011 8:25am
East Wellington Superhero

I see the NZ Herald’s “online poll” says over 50% of NZers support gay adoption. I wonder how skewed this is? Do you think gay lobby groups email out their supporters and get them to vote. This result may be genuine but I’m sceptical. If society is so accepting, and if conservatives are so ‘irrelevant’ these days, then why the drama? I suspect NZ is not as liberal as the talking heads think it is.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763289
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November 2, 2011 8:40am
Griff

DPF has updated the demerits
Find out how naughty u have been and who has been given time out

..Some will go happy happy joy joy at the latest suspension..eh..
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November 2, 2011 8:42am
flipper

Marvellous….. The supercilious twits that front TV One’s breakfast show yet again say the it it “the Government’s responsibility to create jobs”.
That is what the PIGS and the Sov Union tried. That is why they have failed. That is why big Kenny Douglas became a “capitalist”. ONLY the private sector can create and maintain jobs – that is jobs that are permanent and not State-funded make-work.
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November 2, 2011 8:43am
Falafulu Fisi

Tw great different versions of the popular 80s ballad theme song from the children’s animated film, An American Tail. They are both great duets.

#1) Somewhere Out There (by James Ingram and Linda Ronstadt )

#2) Somewhere Out There (by Moana and Eugene Wolfgram)

I like version 2 because of the saxophone.
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November 2, 2011 8:48am
Scott Chris

Boeing 767 Makes Belly Landing. Landing Gear Jammed:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/5892715/Passenger-jet-makes-belly-landing

Fortunately the abrasive braking procedure erased the tag: “Made In Canada” from the undercarriage.

We can safely blame it on Obama.
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November 2, 2011 8:51am
Nookin

Re demerits
My scrolling finger is starting to relax. There is a sniff of normalcy in the air. Phased off KB (at least till March 2012) and, hopefully, phased off the job-seeker benefit well before then.
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November 2, 2011 8:53am
hj

Lonely Planet picks NZ’s Southern Lakes for 2012
http://www.btob.co.nz/article/lonely-planet-picks-nzs-southern-lakes-2012

While the town was once a quiet hamlet nestled alongside Lake Wakatipu, the crush of tourism has had the effect of an economic bomb. While much of the quaintness of the town has been whitewashed with overly commercialised tourism, the natural beauty of the surrounds still remains.
If you have on your list of must-dos activities like bungy, jet-boating, rafting, skydiving, partying and all the other matters of fear and beer, Queenstown is the promised land. There is a kinetic energy to the town – perhaps it’s gleaned off the visitors who only an hour previous had launched themselves earthwards with only a rubber-band to keep them mortal. Regardless, Queenstown is alive with the buzz of tourism, development and a community doing its best to balance protecting the stunning surrounds with the demands of selling it out to the highest bidder.
Lonely Planet Cycling New Zealand
By Scott Kennedy

Boston Globe
Up the road in Queenstown, nature is in full flight.
Queenstown advertises itself as “The Adventure Capital of the World,” where you can bungy jump, heli-ski, jet-boat, or sky-dive. The confines of the modest town can no longer accommodate the throng of thrill-seekers. Soaring mountains still fringe the lake, but condos are creeping along the shore, a snake of traffic clogs the road into town, and Louis Vuitton has set up shop along with Global Culture, a clothes store.
If your idea of a holiday is a seething mass of cars and people, topped off by a cacophony of helicopters, Queenstown may be for you. Otherwise, it serves only as a warning of the perils of overdevelopment.
“Queenstown used to be nice, but it’s a mess, now,” Verduyn says, as we continue our trip down the Upper Clutha. “We don’t want to get like that.”
He points out a bunker-like private dwelling atop a bluff, and shakes his head.
“It was a disaster to put that building in there,” he says. “People from all over the world are coming here seeking a wilderness, a sanctuary. The worst-case scenario is that we damage the environment, which brings people to New Zealand in the first place.”

http://www.boston.com/travel/articles/2004/11/07/new_zealand_at_a_crossroads/
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November 2, 2011 8:56am
peterwn

flipper – that what the building industry is saying. They say they need many more workers, but expect skilled and trained job applicants to be ‘on tap’. So abour is going to spend lots of taxpayers’ money on trying to supply job applicants but with indifferent resuklts.

It is rather like the Police expecting ‘someone else’ to make a potential supply of fully trained applicants available to go straight on the beat, or hospitals expecting fully trained doctors and nurses ready to hire without the need to make any training commitment.

As far as I know there is only one job where prospective applicants are highly paid while doing their ‘training’ – High Court judges.
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November 2, 2011 9:01am
nasska

Nookin

Truly, you are one of the greatest Pollyannas of our time. Don’t you get the vibes of Water Woman & Lee01 flexing their fingers over their keyboards, poised to fill the gap left by the much demeritted one?
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November 2, 2011 9:02am
Manolo

Cut the lazy Greek loose: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/01/us-finland-greece-idUSTRE7A010N20111101
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November 2, 2011 9:03am
Manolo

Hooray. I, for one, celebrate the departure of the despised demented one.
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November 2, 2011 9:05am
Nookin

hj
Any comment on the passages? I think Verduyn may overstate the position concerning the noise, traffic and the house. Having said that, the rules have been tightened since then and I doubt whether there will be a repeat performance along the river (at least, not in the QLDC).
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November 2, 2011 9:06am
flipper

Peterwn…
Nice one
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November 2, 2011 9:07am
Nookin

Nasska
I saw ww make a brief appearance the other day. Same rant to the same effect (everyone ignored her). She will come and go until the Epsom voters follow the example of Howick, the Supercity and tell her to naff off. In the meantime she appears to be distracted – trying to keep her mate out of clink.
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November 2, 2011 9:10am
Manolo

This is what the Messiah meant by “hope and change“: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/01/jobs-panel-member-whose-solar-firm-won-2b-loan-raises-conflict-interest/
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November 2, 2011 9:12am
James Stephenson

The Eurzone bends over backwards to prevent a Greek default and Greece says they will think about it

Damn right they should too, there’s no nice way out of this for the Greeks now, France and Germany are just trying to save their banks and their precious “project”.

Opinion polls in Greece show they don’t want conditions that attach to the rescue package, but they do want to stay in the Euro – it’s cake or eat it time and the only sensible way to make that choice is a referrendum. The Eurocrats have trampled over the people of Europe for too long.

Hopefully they reject it, accepting the deal is just delaying the inevitable IMO.
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November 2, 2011 9:14am
Rick Rowling

Greece should just raise their minimum wage.

That way everyone would be richer, productivity would increase, and their economy would be sorted.
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November 2, 2011 9:58am
Pete George

United Futures billboards have the slogan “Fairness & Choice”.
I understand Fairness but “Choice”?

Does this mean the they are the cool party?

You could take that meaning I guess – UF want to clean up waterways, that would be cool.

The main thrust of ‘Choice’ is giving people choices in their lives – like the choice of starting Super anywhere from 60 to 70.

Good government should be about making good individual choices possible, not imposing one size fits all limitations.
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November 2, 2011 10:05am
tom hunter

It’s not that world stock markets have plunged for silly reasons – it’s that they rose for silly reasons in the first place and reality is now returning.

The problem is that reality has turned up at the door a few times now and Europe continually slams the door in it’s face. The announcement last week about the EFSF being boosted from 450 to 1 trillion Euros was the reason for these stupid recoveries in global stock markets. But when markets start going up on rumours it means they’ve disconnected from the fundamentals of the companies within them, and that means they’ll also drop on rumours.

It’s just nuts and certainly shows that the equity markets are crazier than the bond markets. The crazy comes from looking at the headline European Leaders Agree to Boost Emergency Fund but not at the detail. And it’s the detail that has sunk every previous announcement.

Look at the second bailout for Greece announced back in July: Greece would conduct further fiscal tightening and raise more tax revenue, their private lenders would take a 21% haircut, yada, yada, yada. In the event they needed 90% of private lenders to agree but got less than 75%, at which point the whole thing began to die quietly. The main new tax revenue source was a property tax levied via power bills – and promptly stuffed by some electricity workers union who announced that they would not enforce it by cutting off non-payers power. I should not need to say anything about whether the announced cuts really did result in reduced government spending.

Now we’ve got the same crap again. Where will the EFSF get the extra 550 billion Euros? The Finns almost screwed the last top-up and were only placated by being offered “collateral” – Greek collateral as it happens. The German constitutional court just ruled that any further dollops will have to be approved via their parliament, so no backroom finance minister deals. To put it bluntly the money is not coming from those sources, so the idiots have begun talking about various instruments by which they’ll be able to “multiply” their current cash up the magic $1 trillion. Multiply you say: you mean leverage? Yes, leveraged financial instruments – just like good old Wall Street. Feeling safer now?

And all those problems are just on the supply side. On the demand side is the fact that people who got excited about last week’s announcement apparently never considered what effect it might have on all those others with their hands out. Sure enough, Ireland and Spain have already begun making noises about slowing rates of growth and the bad effect it might have on their debt and debt repayments. In other words they’ve looked at what Greece has been able to get away with and said Me Too!. Given that the Greek problem has gone from something that could be solved with 100 billion Euros to perhaps requiring 400 billion Euros to resolve (e.g. almost all the ESFS that was originally supposed to be there for Spain as well) what are the odds that even a 1 trillion Euro fund will be enough.

Maybe Timmy Geithner will be making another flying visit to assure the Euros that the US Fed has it’s credit lines open and waiting.

And those lenders willing to take a 50% haircut? What are the odds of that happening when not even 75% of them were willing to take a 21% haircut a few months ago? It’s not just about private banks either. How many insurance companies, with their delicate balance of assets vs. liabilities, will be willing to accept such cuts.

Moreover, that’s just the private lenders. The announced 50% haircut does not apply to all the sovereign bodies that hold Greek debt, including noneother than the ECB. They actually hold more of the debt than the private sector, so Greece will still be up to its ass in debt even after all this.

At a certain point debt begins to feed on itself and throwing more money at actually makes things worse.

And look at the other aspect of this announcement: that if it all works as planned the Greeks will get their debt level down to 120% of GDP by 2020 – the same level that actually kicked off this crisis a couple of years ago and following a decade of grinding economic misery. FFS, does anybody really think ordinary Greeks are going to live with that plan? Really?

Finally, for all the shit that I and others would fire at the Greeks, the fact is that they acted rationally. Presented with the gigantic honeypot of almost unlimited amounts of cheap Euros they did what any Wall Street firm did when looking at the US government’s desire to boost home ownership.

What should happen now is what should have happened 18 months ago (and what the German finance minister wanted to happen) – Greece defaults, leaves the Eurozone, and goes back to the Drachma. Yes it will devalue hugely. Yes, it will make borrowing money on world markets tough. Yes, it will set off a fucking earthquake across the Eurozone and possibly destroy that. But as bad as those things are this growing monster is actually worse. And the Greeks themselves at least would have a chance to get out from under with an economy that would start working again, making use of things they can do and that make money, like tourism. It should be noted that when Iceland told the bankers/lenders to get stuffed the same threats were made – but they’re actually recovering now, in a slow, painful and grinding fashion it’s true, but they can see daylight. Ordinary Greeks can’t.

But, as James points out, this is no longer about economics or even debt. It’s about a bunch of Eurocrats who are determined to preserve their creation. They’re even thinking along the lines of Rahm Emanuel’s infamous comment to never let a crisis go to waste, with dreams of an even more centralised Europe that can issue true “Eurobonds” to sell and save the day – along with all the centralised institutions needed for that. They’re willing to break all Europeans, not just the Greeks, on that wheel of dreams.
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November 2, 2011 10:10am
Griff

nasska
At lest the derision leveled @”phool” will halt. Abusing “eh” was taking up far to much band width.
The ayatollah lee01 at least has the occasional insight Although of little value in the real world, his strong Cristian centric view reminds us of how far our liberal society has progressed since Christianity has been pushed into the margins.
WW seems to be living in her own fantasy land. I am glad that she is not posting by the gross as others were
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November 2, 2011 10:12am
nasska

tom hunter

Thank you….an interesting read. Could you go further & suggest what could happen if Greece does default, pull out of the Eurozone & tells its creditors to take a hike?

We are familiar with what happens when an individual or a company goes arse up but how can creditors seize the assets of a sovereign country? Apart from all other considerations Greece maintains a fairly well armed & manned military force who are probably not going to sit back & see the country ransacked.

With Ireland, Portugal & Spain looking dicey the members of the EEC who are putting up trillions to shore up these basket cases must be looking at a Plan B if things deteriorate.
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November 2, 2011 10:30am
Murray

Damn that Phil is Useless. Couldn’t even last long enough for me to finsih my exams.
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November 2, 2011 10:33am
RightNow

This looks rather ominous. The Greek defence minister “proposed on Tuesday evening the complete replacement of the country’s top brass”

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49916
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November 2, 2011 10:37am
nasska

Griff

Flame wars & blogging are like dogs & fleas…it’s hard to have one without the other & if the skirmishes are brief it’s all part of the fun. When personalities take over every thread we lose some of the most intelligent commentators who can’t be bothered sifting through the crap.

Peace has broken out but it will be short lived.
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November 2, 2011 10:37am
joe90

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=report-military-coup-possible-in-greece-2011-05-29
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November 2, 2011 10:43am
Manolo

UnitedFuture …yawn.

Heard on the radio the whorish Dunne touting the virtues of income-splitting for tax purposes, a hobby horse he’s been riding (and promising) for over a decade. The man with the strange hairdo knows no shame.
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November 2, 2011 10:45am
s.russell

My jaw dropped to read this comment in the Herald article on Asian voters backing National:

“The trouble with many Asian voters is that they tend to vote according to trends without really understanding the issues,” said Mr Huo.

So Mr Huo is saying Asian voters are stupid?
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November 2, 2011 10:50am
s.russell

FYI,
Mana has announced its list:
Mr. Harawira, as leader, is number 1 on the list followed by Annette Sykes at 2, John Minto at 3 and Sue Bradford at 4.
Have not seen this reported anywhere in the media.
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November 2, 2011 10:54am
tom hunter

Hey people – wanna double your money in just six months?

Well now you can – with our Greek 1 Yr T-bill at 200%.

Yes, it’s true. In addition to your 200% rate of return you get one Greek destroyer. Lend more for 250%, and we’ll throw in a dozen handsome young Greek sailors (if you’re that way inclined – not that there’s anything wrong with that).

====

Fuck it. They should just put Bernie Maddoff in charge of this thing.
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November 2, 2011 10:55am
KiwiGreg

@tom last week Iceland was able to borrow more cheaply than Greece. Not by much but so much for the perils of defaulting. Given they can’t print Euros they either get the euro aid or they default (essentially they would have to issue IOUs to pay state wages and pensions, let’s call this IOUs “drachma” for the sake of the story). Imagine what those would be worth versus the euro. Simple answer – put off your Greek holiday, it’s going to get a whole lot cheaper.
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November 2, 2011 11:10am
Murray

Mr. Harawira, Annette Sykes, John Minto, Sue Bradford… this is what, the Poltical Undead Party?
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November 2, 2011 11:11am
Manolo

Hone Harawira, Annette Sykes, John Minto, Sue Bradford: An entire colony of dunces.
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November 2, 2011 11:14am
RightNow

Looks like a leadership coup may be on the cards for Papandreou. Seems his call for a referendum on the aid package doesn’t have a lot of support from other politicians.
http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49905
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November 2, 2011 11:18am
tom hunter

KiwiGreg

Indeed, and your information fits in with my take on Iceland further up the page. Whether it feeds into nasska’s question I don’t know, simply because scale may come into the picture. As a much bigger country Greece may hit borrowing problems that the smaller Iceland could evade. Iceland perhaps is tapping smaller lenders – but those would be too small to supply the needs of Greece.

I have to read those links on the Greek military above. It’s an angle that I had not even considered given the memories of the 1970’s military government, but it fits with the mood of the times. The country is dying.

Rather like much of Europe actually, and the question to be asked is whether it goes peacefully or violently.

On that point, I’d bet on form.
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November 2, 2011 11:28am
Manolo

Another aspiring (shouldn’t be despairing?) socialist declares his love for the mob of no-hopers: http://www.davidclark.org.nz/2011/11/occupy-dunedin/
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November 2, 2011 11:30am
Falafulu Fisi

RN said…
Looks like a leadership coup may be on the cards for Papandreou.

That’s a long overdue lesson for proponents/worshipers of Keynesian economic theories. There is no such thing as restricted/responsible application of Keynesian theories. Its all or nothing. As Bernard Darnton said a few years ago. If it won’t work at 17 degrees, then why should it work at 19 degrees, ay Pete George? Its a shame that Mr Key & Mr English can’t see that.
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November 2, 2011 11:33am
hj

I was glancing out the window when I saw a lovely speckled thrush retract itself from an agapanthus with a snail in its beak. It banged the snail on the concrete and then would wipe its beak. Unfortunately beside the agapanthus I had sprinkled blitzen as the slugs had been chewing my marigolds (I spotted them at night with a torch). This morning I had been out to look at the marigolds and noticed two snails. I see a small one has been eaten already and the larger one may have hidden in the agapanthus.
Rachael Carson was right all along.
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November 2, 2011 11:38am
Fletch

I see that after Israeli solider Gilad Shalit was freed the other day, an imam pledged to give $100,000 to anyone who would kidnap another one. A Saudi prince has upped the offer by $900,000, making it a cool million dollars to anyone who kidnaps another Israeli soldier.

You could see this coming ey?

(Reuters) – A member of the Saudi royal family has pledged $900,000 to a bounty offered by a prominent cleric to any Palestinian who kidnaps an Israeli soldier, according to comments aired on a private TV station Saturday.

Prince Khaled bin Talal, a brother of Saudi billionnaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, told Daleel television over the phone that he decided to contribute to Awad al-Qarni’s bounty after the Saudi cleric received death threats for offering $100,000 to capture an Israeli soldier.

“Dr Awad al-Qarni said he was offering $100,000 to only take a prisoner but they responded by offering $1 million to kill Awad al-Qarni,” Prince Khaled said, according to a recording of the call published on Daleel’s website.

“I tell Dr. Awad al-Qarni, ‘I will be in solidarity with you and pay the remaining $900,000 to take an Israeli soldier prisoner so that other prisoners can be freed,'” he added.

Qarni said on his Facebook page this week that he made the offer in response to a similar reward promised by an Israeli family for anyone who catches the person who killed one of its members in 1998, following a prisoner exchange agreement earlier this month of more than 1,000 Palestinians for the captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

Qarni is well known in Saudi Arabia for his outspoken views but is not part of the official clerical establishment.

Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam, sees itself as a champion of Palestinian rights but Saudi leaders have been at pains to curb more radical statements by Muslim clerics on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

In 2002, the Western-allied kingdom floated a peace initiative calling for full Arab recognition of Israel if it gave up all lands occupied in a 1967 war and accepts a solution for Palestinian refugees.
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November 2, 2011 11:39am
KiwiGreg

We became sighted on the coup risk a few weeks ago although really its part of the broader managed versus unmanaged default spectrum. While the 1973 colonels coup was different (egged on at the very least by the US as part of broader cold war stuff) it’s easy enough to create a scenario where the breakdown of civil order and paralysis in the parliament leads the military to “step up for the good of the country”.

Most people don’t appreciate that even on a charitable interpretation Greece in its current form isn’t much older than New Zealand. It really doesn’t have much of a democratic tradition having spent a good part of the last 2000 years as Rome’s and the Ottoman’s bitch.
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November 2, 2011 11:40am
RightNow

Earthquake – felt it in Wellington, anyone else?
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November 2, 2011 11:43am
hj

hj
Any comment on the passages? I think Verduyn may overstate the position concerning the noise, traffic and the house. Having said that, the rules have been tightened since then and I doubt whether there will be a repeat performance along the river (at least, not in the QLDC).
….
Queenstown (and everywhere) has issues with development and the guiding hand of the profit motive. I see the developers want to make Arrowtown “just a little larger” (for now) while the locals are dead set against it.
Personally I don’t think I object to the richest people living in the nicest places except that the “richest people” are a very large demographic on a world-wide basis (and tend to own rather than occupy, in Queenstwons case).
There is currently a drive to present the view that if we leave it all to market forces developers will produce a sort of beautiful optimum; it seems to work for rich enclaves around the world, but otherwise, unless infrastructure is subsidized (from some pot) and land is wasteland the not so well off will live in dross (even expensive dross).
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November 2, 2011 12:03pm
tom hunter

There is no such thing as restricted/responsible application of Keynesian theories.

True – but what makes it all go critical is when it’s wedded to the sort of welfare states that Europe has been boasting about for two decades in comparing themselves to that nasty Thatcher-type “Anglo-American” capitalism. As the following quote says in relation to the proposed Greek referendum:

Only governments who are willing to spend or willing to lie about austerity and then spend have a chance in societies where the Free Lunch has become the great public god.

It’s funny that what I wrote about this “deal” being crap for the average Greek is now going to be voted on by them. No wonder the Eurocrats and their financial friends around the world are shitting themselves.

On the other hand, perhaps the Greek government is betting that greed for continuing Euro goodies will overcome greed for control of their own lives. They might be right about that, for all my thoughts about ordinary Greeks getting screwed over by this deal perhaps they still can’t let go of what it has enabled and continue to believe they can evade reality – and the angry tooth fairy! Rather like US voters when confronted with the problems of Social Security and Medicare.

Sad really.
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November 2, 2011 12:04pm
hj

David Clark:
Last night, I spoke at the Occupy gathering in the Octagon. I thanked those involved for bringing the Occupy discussion to Dunedin.

I’ve blogged about Occupy before. It is drawing attention to the growing gap between rich and poor.
….
One basic fact is that we would normally all be killing each other. That is natures way because some have and others haven’t (you can imagine all the haves have dairy farms whereas the others have shingle pits). The haves and have nots are not bound closely enough by blood to be “loved”. Consequently the have nots have to do something to get an income from the haves such as stand at the gate selling lovely flowers out of crape paper. If society is perceived to be stuck in such a permanent reality we have dispair and revolution hence the need for continual economic growth as the economy it isn’t a game of cards where we have a reshuffle and start again, we have to keep starting new games for people.
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November 2, 2011 12:17pm
adze

@RN

Yeah I felt it – just. A 4.9 centred southeast of Blenheim 15km deep, according to GNS.
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November 2, 2011 12:22pm
hj

The economy would work a lot smoother if you could go to a shop and then plug some sort of skill and knowledge into your head.
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November 2, 2011 12:26pm
KiwiGreg

If (when) the Greeks default there will still be a massive readjustment, just different folk will bear the brunt. The drachma will rapidly devalue, they will have high (or even hyper) inflation. No doubt the 20% of the “workforce” sucking at the public teat will get cost of living adjustments but it aint going to be pretty for those on fixed incomes.
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November 2, 2011 12:34pm
kowtow

At it’s rawest the EU has only ever been about France controlling Germany and therefore Europe on the cheap.
The Germans seemingly go along with it due to a deeply ingrained guilt over two world wars and wanting to appear to finally be good Europeans.
The peripheral countries in the EU are reasonably happy because it has always meant transfer payments from the wealthy Germans to the poor fringes ie Greece,Ireland ,Spain ,Portugal.
Italy is deeply divided between a rich,industrail north and a poor benefit dependant south.
The average Briton is becoming very disheartened by the EU superstate,Britain joined the EEC.

How long will Helmut be happy to subsidise the lazy Pierres, Juans and Krapashitalots? That’s the real question.
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November 2, 2011 12:57pm
dime

LMAO Phils gone til March next year?

Nice to see Dime doesnt feature on the demerits list.

eh?
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November 2, 2011 1:19pm
KH

Queenstown. Yggggh. Downtown anyway.
I don’t know or care if it is a failure of socialist controls, or is a failure of capitalist enterprise.
But it’s definitely a failure.
A classic case of killing the golden goose.
It should be in textbooks about how to shoot yourself in the business foot.
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November 2, 2011 1:46pm
big bruv

Dime

In what thread did Phool have his melt down?
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November 2, 2011 1:48pm
Nookin

bb
he developed a fascination for the word “cnut” and applied it to those with whom he disagreed. I think it was yesterday’s thread on Nat’s welfare policy. Not really a melt-down (unless I missed something). Just typical myopic-nasty-I-am-entitled-Mr-Ure. Don’t panic, tho. Penny’s back, it seems.
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November 2, 2011 1:59pm
gopolks

Will the ipredict thing turn into a scandal for the Labour Party?
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November 2, 2011 2:33pm
dime

bruv – he went a bit nasty if the welfare thread. cant imagine why.
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November 2, 2011 2:36pm
Steve

He went nasty on the welfare thread, and it was so much fun!
Nobody to blame except himself, bloody good job
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November 2, 2011 2:50pm
Longknives

Philu’s gone? He went a bit feral and nasty on me on the General Debate thread yesterday (Bad mood? Maybe getting agitated waiting for his ‘bennie’ to get paid?)…I didn’t even see the Welfare thread but I can only imagine…
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November 2, 2011 2:52pm
Longknives

Just read it- Absolutely brilliant!
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November 2, 2011 3:04pm
ciaron

Bloomin heck! how did I get 30 demerits?????
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November 2, 2011 3:23pm
bereal

poor old philu.
what on earth will he do now ?
so much spare time on his hands.
Looks like the old bong will get a hiding for 3 months.
He must have seen it comming, but much like a demented lemming he just couldn’t help himself.
Others will now have to step up to the plate and carry the torch.
Enter…..Scott Chris…..eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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November 2, 2011 4:42pm
Fisiani

Under Labour’s CGT if you have 5 houses each worth 400,000 you pay CGT on the sale of 4 of these houses. But if you have a 2 million dollar mansion (family home) then you pay not one cent in CGT. Line every wall with valuable CGT free paintings and adorn yourself with CGT free sparkling jewellery.
Labour -The Party for New Zealand Mansion holders.
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November 2, 2011 4:45pm
plebe

Why are the plods thinking of charging her???, im scratching my head
Bus sounded horn before hitting girl

Headphones may have prevented a Kaitaia College student hearing a bus’s horn before it hit and seriously injured her near the school.

Taimania-Rose Marie Martin-Heke, 14, who underwent surgery on head injuries on Tuesday, and a friend were talking and sharing a pair of headphones as they walked along Pukepoto Road on Monday.

Ms Martin-Heke began walking into the left hand lane of the road and was hit, Kaitaia police Detective Sergeant Trevor Beatson says.

The bus driver saw her and began sounding her horn, Det Sgt Beatson says.

“Either because of the headphones, or conversation she was engaged in, the student was sufficiently distracted not to recognise the danger of walking out into the road and was hit by the bus,” he said.

Ms Martin-Heke was hit about 20m away from Kataia College and flown to Starship Children’s Hospital in Auckland where she had surgery on Tuesday.

Medical staff have described her condition as stable, Det Sgt Beatson said on Wednesday.

Police have not yet made a decision on charging the bus driver.
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November 2, 2011 4:55pm
kowtow

TVNZ Close up on the campaign trail over rheumatic fever( a 3rd world disease) in the north. It seems to be the gummints fault.
Showed a derelict house,broken windows etc that reportedly has a huge number living in it. It had a frikken Sky dish!!
And with all those living in it ,they can’t fix a fricken window ot two?

Then we’re told Pacific folk get this thing 2ce as much as Maoris do. So why feature the north?

48% of maori in the north are unemployed.

If I were unemployed I’d move to where there was work,how hard can that be?
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November 2, 2011 7:24pm
Pauleastbay

Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my
lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the
boat up to the van and proceeded to back out into a torrential
downpour. The wind was blowing 80kph, so I pulled back into the
garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather
would be bad all day.

I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back
into bed. I cuddled up to my wife’s back; now with a different
anticipation, and whispered, “The weather out there is
terrible.”

My loving wife of 5 years replied, “And, can you believe my
stupid husband is out fishing in that?”
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November 2, 2011 7:26pm
Steve

Two guys.
My wife is so dumb she bought a Ferrari and doesn’t even have a license.
Oh yeah? my wife is so dumb she went on a pacific cruise ship. She bought a box of condoms and she doesn’t have a dick
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November 2, 2011 7:36pm
joana

Steven Joyce comes very late to the Awatere saga. Not a good look for National. What is his policy? Ignore and hope it goes away?? His inexperience is showing again.
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November 2, 2011 7:39pm
Steve

‘how hard can that be’ ???
Try tell John Hatfeild. Work needs to come to you
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November 2, 2011 7:57pm
nasska

There was bad news for God this week as the well-known deity was forced to recall thousands of examples of His popular Human Being after reports that the model could be prone to unexpected attacks of unbelievable stupidity.

Initial reports of blithering idiocy emerged from the United States three years ago when Barrack Obama won the presidency but these were thought to be isolated incidents. However, it now seems the monumental stupidity is more widespread and may cause some Human Beings to decide that the best course of action in the event of a global financial crisis is to elect a Left Wing Government which promises to borrow more to reward its union mates & Green allies.

The Pope, who runs parts of the administration from Rome, is expected to make a full statement shortly. In the meantime, the views of LEE01 a theologist from New Zealand are being sought. He is expected to call for the world to be transported back in time to a pre industrial age & for all produce to be barrowed rather than trucked.

As God seeks to clarify the extent of the stupidity problem and establish how many Human Beings will need to be recalled, theologians have been assessing just what has caused the problem of quite extraordinarily thick behaviour in the first place. “I suspect the problem lies in the rather clever engineering God has given the Human Being,” noted Dr Peter Cockandbull of Waikato University. “The modern Human Being is actually remarkably durable and reliable, capable of lasting well over 80 years, but among its clever systems is something called Cognitive Reasoning. Normally this works very well, but over time Human Beings get used to being spoon fed blindingly obvious information such as those ads on TV about smoking & healthy diets & eventually they can just give up trying to have any discernment or ability to think rationally. Basically, the Human Being becomes a moron & eventually votes Labour.
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November 2, 2011 8:00pm
Scott Chris

Lee01 was walking along Takapuna beach was deep in prayer when all of a sudden he said aloud, “Lord grant me one wish”. The sky clouded and a booming voice said, “Because you have tried to be faithful I will grant you one wish.” So Lee 01 said, “Build a bridge to Waiheke Island so I can drive over anytime I want to.”

The Lord answered, “Your request is very materialistic. Think of the logistics of that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the harbour! The concrete and steel it would take. I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time to think of another wish, a wish you think would honour and glorify me”.

Lee01 thought for a long time and finally said, “Lord, I wish that I could understand women. I want to know what they feel inside, what they are thinking when they give me the silent treatment, why they cry, what they mean when they say ‘nothing’, and how I can make a woman truly happy?”

After a few minutes God said, “How many lanes did you want on that bridge?”
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November 2, 2011 8:42pm
nasska

God was talking to Adam and asked Adam which he wanted first, the good news or the bad news.
Adam chose the good news.

God told him he had made something for him: it would never wear out, it was warm and slick, it felt good, and would give a tremendous amount of pleasure in his lifetime.

Adam said that is great and asked what could possibly be the bad news.

God said that he’d put a woman in charge of it.
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November 2, 2011 8:55pm
reid

There has been a campaign in the states, putting up posters about politically incorrect halloween costumes, which has been immediately spoofed by thousands.

Here’s the best.

http://gawker.com/5853150/anti+racist-halloween-ad-spawns-funny-meme?tag=costumes
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November 2, 2011 9:04pm
Pete George

Very quiet here on the Press debate? Best debate – good to and fro with points shared until the $14b hole. The dog ate the spreadsheet lost it for Goff.
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November 2, 2011 9:25pm
adze

I was following the twitter feed on stuff Pete, seemed to be a fair amount of Labour astroturfing there considering that the live blogger considered it a clear Key victory.

Apropos of nothing, watching Backbenchers now and it looks like Jacinda has been hitting the sunbed in preparation for her election campaign…
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November 2, 2011 9:31pm
Put it away

Poor phool… sentenced to spend time on his own blog. Solitary confinement, in other words. Oh well…
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November 2, 2011 9:40pm
RF

Show us the money Phil.. Beautiful. Key won by miles.
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November 2, 2011 9:41pm
Weihana

Pete George – didn’t see the start but I did see Key have a go at him over the $14 billion. Goff’s fine on the rhetoric and the point scoring but when it comes down to it he doesn’t have an answer to a simple question about his own proposals.

Also this fake uncomfortable grin on his face has to go. His demeanor should be serious. Not angry or upset at Key but just serious. Basically just look at John Key and do what he’s doing! But in order to do that you have to be sure of yourself and you’ll only be sure of yourself if you have worked out the answers BEFOREHAND which will prevent you from looking all desperate on the spot trying to think of a good comeback… ooo I know, how about the “What about the GST increase?” for the umpteenth time. Good one Goff. Sheesh.
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November 2, 2011 9:44pm
leftyliberal

Agreed Weihana – Goff cannot afford another drilling over the accounting – he must release the costings.
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November 3, 2011 8:06am

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