General Debate 15 December 2011

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Pete George

Shearer offered his expertise to the government poverty committee, Key shuns him.

Shouldn’t we use the best expertise available for an issue that has obvious widespread concern?

Cross party poverty.
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December 15, 2011 8:12am
Scott Chris

Riddle:

A local hardware store places the following ad:

Buy 1 for $1.00
Buy 10 for $2.00
Buy 100 for $3.00

I buy 913 but am only charged $3.00. How come?
.
.
.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Answer backwards: srebmun esuoh gnizitrevda era yehT
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December 15, 2011 8:12am
Viking2

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6137353/The-net-nasty-who-vows-to-strip-you-bare

watch out if you parade in the nude.
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December 15, 2011 8:15am
peterwn

Pete George – National could have a major contribution to review of electoral law in 2007 or so, but Labour was just not interested – “We have the numbers – eat that” Lyn Pillay effectively said at Select Committee considering electoral law.

Little wonder then that John Key is not keen on Labour’s offer.

Actually, John did hold out an olive branch – he said he would involve Labour in exchange for Labour’s ‘confidence and supply’ support. In practice that is not a big ‘ask’ and Labour should take John up on this.
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December 15, 2011 8:18am
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…
Shearer offered his expertise to the government poverty committee

PG, how does the Govt think it can eliminate poverty? Is it via wealth redistribution?
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December 15, 2011 8:26am
Viking2

Pete George (11,949) Says:
December 15th, 2011 at 8:12 am

Shearer offered his expertise to the government poverty committee, Key shuns him.

Shouldn’t we use the best expertise available for an issue that has obvious widespread concern?

Cross party poverty.

Ah no Pete.
Be careful what you wish for.

Key doesn’t want to go back to poverty and neither do the rest of us. Frankly I’m fucking fed up with listening to the unions and labour crap on about poverty in NZ. There is no reason unless you have got caught up in the embezzlement of funds from finance companies or rorting by the same and banks.
Any other reason is usually of your own making and under your own control.

If we want to change poverty in NZ we need to change attitudes to work and attitudes towards employers and attitudes towards welfare. None of these things Labour will do.

Socialists and lefties and trough dwellers need to be told to, piss off from the taxpayers pocket and live their own lives. Can’t manage that, tough shit.
And I don’t mind giving people a hand up, as I do, but expecting continuous handhouts and top ups and not doing anything to help themselves needs to stop and they have to be told bluntly to get their shit together and stop being a drain on society.
Sooner the better and then we can focus on growing NZ’s wealth rather than wasting it.

But you won’t understand that will you?
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December 15, 2011 8:26am
103PapPap

Conspiracy theory of the day.

The Labour caucus actually voted for Cunliffe, but Moira Coatsworth, President of the Labour Party and the only scrutineer of the voting papers wanted Shearer, so she burned the voting papers and announced that Shearer was the winner.
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December 15, 2011 8:30am
Manolo

The government can help to eliminate poverty by getting out of the way and abolishing countless and useless pieces of legislation (e.g., RMA, ETS), by freeing the economy and respecting property rights.

The King Canutes in Parliament can pass all the laws they want, but will make no difference.
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December 15, 2011 8:34am
Viking2

Getting rid of poverty means getting rid of rigid controls on employment,(so people can go earn a dollar without the Govt. making its useless bloody rules about something it knows nothing about), Skitling the RMA, reducing councils and local body institutions to shadows of themselves. Removing barriers to business and removing barriers to work and subsidies to those that can’t be bothered working and allowing companies to keep what they earn to reinvest in new technology and new up to date equipment.

Germany has 100% depreciation on new fixed equipment. That should tell us something.

Should not include new Mercedes, which are currently the fastest selling new car around along with the BMW’s.
Dealers can’t sell Honda’s but can’t get enough top of the line stuff.

Borrowing against you house,farm or factory to buy a new Merc. doesn’t do anything for the economy when the depreciation on the and the interest is charged back to the companies and trusts that own them.
English should put a stop to that rort.
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December 15, 2011 8:36am
immigant

I think the problem with poverty in NZ is not so much only legislation but the low expectation culture. In this country, unless you have very tragic circumstances and were born into a gang or somethign like that, there is no excuse for not having a reasonably well paid job by the age of 30. I’m not just saying that to be spitefull like I ussualy do, I whole heartedly believe in it because I went from stealing pies at petrol stations because I was so hungry to going on over seas trips every year.

I think god helps those who helps themselves. Thats on a personal scale. On a more global scale NZ has some of the most restrictive laws for small and med biz. Running a small biz here is pretty hard from what I hear.
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December 15, 2011 8:47am
Viking2

Immigrant. Many restrictive laws and a very competitive shrinking economy. Until we remove barriers to people succeeding we will continue to have this problem. That’s why Kiwi’s grow wings and fly. Not to say that other countries don’t have the same issues but they have much bigger economies so people can succeed where it just gets too hard here, especially when Govt is 44% of the economy.

From this morning.
Here is the problem.
Another report out this week showed how dependent the building sector has become on the state. Pacifecon, the construction report and analysis business, said of the 511 new, tendered and commencing jobs worth $5 million-plus from June to November, 235 were for the Government.

Of 80 planned upper North Island jobs, 42 are for the Government.

All paid by the Taxpayer. Why?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10773303

Of the 77 upper North Island projects which had started, 36 were for the state.
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December 15, 2011 8:55am
holysheet

If anybody has seen poverty it should be shearer. What he calls poverty in NZ is not poverty as seen in the africa or back streets in india.
Until they admit that the poor in NZ are just useless at money management, then we will always have this gulf between the well off and the poor. I defy anybody to show me an example of slum living in NZ as in slum dog millionaire. It just is not here.
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December 15, 2011 8:56am
immigant

Viking2

I hear you. I have a pretty run of the mill job but for a VERY good company, and I get paid about 2/3 of what I would get in OZ even if I worked for a 2 bit operator. Seriously concidering taking off once I get few more years under my belt.
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December 15, 2011 9:02am
DaveDustin

I know DPF is a fan of Sacha Baron-Cohen, so he’s a link to the trailer for his latest movie
http://video.aol.com/aolvideo/moviefone/the-dictator-trailer-no-1/1326200409001

Appears to be parody of Gadaffi / Saddam.

I found it painful to watch, but then I couldn’t stand Borat or Bruno.
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December 15, 2011 9:02am
pollywog

English putting a stop to a rort ?…hahaha that is a good one V2.

Me, i’d cap executive salaries at x number times whatever the bottom person is earning, redistribute a precentage of the profit to them and re invest to create more jobs.

I’d also slash the gov’t perks scheme and lower politicians salaries. The money saved would go to create scholarships and subsidised costs for execeptional students of unfortunate circumstances on the proviso that they do time in the public service to pay it back at some stage.
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December 15, 2011 9:08am
Murray

“Shouldn’t we use the best expertise available for an issue that has obvious widespread concern?”

You want to be the government get elected. The only skill demonstrated by any politican is winning a popularity contest. Shearer hasn’t done that oputside the labour party yet.
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December 15, 2011 9:10am
immigant

And the crazies come out.
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December 15, 2011 9:10am
side show bob

Speaking of poverty i believe Fonterra may be about to introduce a milk into schools program. Besides being an expensive PR exercise will it really make any difference. How long will it be before the calls go out to food companies in New Zealand to feed the children, with Fonterra being used as an example. Fonterra may have the best of intentions but this is NZ, how long will it be before the private sector is expected to pick up the costs of feeding the nations children. Will this really help or will it simply promote a culture of greater dependency. I go for greater dependency.
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December 15, 2011 9:16am
Murray

Yes ssb it WILL make a difference. If you can get the buggers to drink it.

It will be a shit load better for them than the liquid pure sugar that is cheaper than milk.
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December 15, 2011 9:17am
laworder

Viking2 wrote

And I don’t mind giving people a hand up, as I do, but expecting continuous handhouts and top ups and not doing anything to help themselves needs to stop and they have to be told bluntly to get their shit together and stop being a drain on society.

Exactly – I have no roblem with helping people, as long as they are also prepared to help themselves. There are some people who because of illness/ disability will always need support from the state, and I dont begrudge them that

holysheet wrote

Until they admit that the poor in NZ are just useless at money management, then we will always have this gulf between the well off and the poor. I defy anybody to show me an example of slum living in NZ as in slum dog millionaire. It just is not here.

Thats true, and that is why we need to manage their money for them – certainly any money that comes from the taxpayer should not be in the form of cash. Once we realise that some people are incapable of making decisions for themselves, at least with money, then we may start making real headway with NZ’s child poverty problems – which are all too often a result of poor parental decision making and priorities. Not that I’m saying that we should withhold help and support for these people, just dont give them cash

Regards
Peter J
Webmaster for http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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December 15, 2011 9:19am
Longknives

If it was real milk then kids would drink it and it would be a good idea…
Unfortunately real milk won’t be allowed by the food nazis. The kids will be given that watery, revolting ‘PC’ excuse for milk that is fashionable these days (Green Top and the like..)..and they won’t touch it- Because it has no body and no taste whatsoever.
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December 15, 2011 9:23am
Murray

If it doesn’t have an inch of pure cream on the top that you have to fight birds for it isn’t milk!
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December 15, 2011 9:25am
Longknives

Aaah Silver Top….
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December 15, 2011 9:26am
Scott Chris

Jon Stewart interviews Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Lessig who explains in simple terms how Congress is corrupt.

Part 1:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-december-13-2011/lawrence-lessig

Part 2:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-december-13-2011/exclusive—lawrence-lessig-extended-interview-pt–2
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December 15, 2011 9:35am
Griff

Meeting in top level dairy industry

Ha HA we get the kids to drink the non milk “milk” then we sell them the stuff that is taken out as butter, fat and oil double the profit.
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December 15, 2011 9:42am
Viking2

pollywog (552) Says:
December 15th, 2011 at 9:08 am

English putting a stop to a rort ?…hahaha that is a good one V2.

Me, i’d cap executive salaries at x number times whatever the bottom person is earning, redistribute a precentage of the profit to them and re invest to create more jobs.

Yep you would and we would be worse off.

Open the market and the market will decide. Why shouldn’t pollies make an employment offer for thenext 3 years and go ona performance contract with far reaching KPI’s.

I’d also slash the gov’t perks scheme and lower politicians salaries.

The money saved would go to create scholarships and subsidised costs for execeptional students of unfortunate
circumstances on the proviso that they do time in the public service to pay it back at some stage.

Companies will put up scholarships if the Govt. stopped robbing them and made it worthwhile. better than student loans for those students. Stops wasteful subsidies.
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December 15, 2011 9:43am
lilman

Bloody good business by fonterra,they are ahead of all other businesses.
I mean do Shell,Genisis energy,BMW,Genneral Electric ,Vodaphone and othe companies have the vision and leadership firstly to freeze the price of their product when people complain about the cost but then proceed to actually give the product away free,so all the cost will be absorbed by the company and the total profit from the income from the free milk will be returned to the company,then that will be distributed to the company shareholders.
The shareholders must be gratefull for this vision and reward their directors with large increases in their salaries at no cost to them because really the cost will be set against all the profit that the free milk will return, less production costs, to the shareholders.
Also the consumers will be happy and refrain from implying that Fonterra is a polluter,that farmers are rich pricks, that the earthquakes we not the fault of dirty dairying and that they are given water consents for perpetual lease.
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December 15, 2011 9:45am
Griff

Don’t forget the maori cut on that perpetual lease of water.
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December 15, 2011 10:00am
Viking2

Yea, one wonders what responsibility those same Maori will take for the excess water that is currently flooding many places.
Or does that not come into the responsibility for managing water rights
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December 15, 2011 10:12am
Viking2

Wellington blog scooped up by US company
CLAIRE ROGERS
Last updated 08:41 15/12/2011

Wellington technology blog ReadWriteWeb, consistently judged one of the world’s most popular blogs, has been bought by San Francisco digital publishing company Say Media for an undisclosed sum.

Anyone heard of these guys?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/6143109/Wellington-blog-scooped-up-by-US-company
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December 15, 2011 10:15am
Viking2

Flags to Half Mast please.

Iconic NZ drag queen Carmen dies

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6142957/Iconic-NZ-drag-queen-Carmen-dies
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December 15, 2011 10:18am
leftyliberal

I fully support milk being supplied to kids at school. Indeed, I personally would be quite happy if breakfast and lunch were part of the schoold day. Take some of the money that would otherwise be destined for WFF or the DPB and deliver it directly into the kids stomachs. In doing so, you boost their physical wellbeing, boost their mental wellbeing and optimise their chances for learning during the day. Kids will want to go to school as they’ll know they’ll get some decent food.
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December 15, 2011 10:19am
ste3e

The claim is that wealth is created by purchasing activity. But it fails to reveal the crucial role borrowing plays; an economy of 100 people all with $100ea all owning a unique good that they produced would increase the size of the economy if each bought goods from the others as the purchasing would provide impetus to produce more goods and therefore the amount of assets in the economy would grow even though the amount of money was still $100 x 100 people (redistributed). But such an economy would plateau as each player acquired the goods they needed or could not sell their goods and obtain the money necessary to buy the goods they wanted.

As soon as you introduce borrowing that cap is lifted as borrowers need only find unique ways to bet on risk; player x plays banker. He accepts deposits from the other players, keeps a percentage of the deposits that he gambles will see him able to meet withdrawals the other players will make. The remainder of the money he lends to borrowers, who might buy more product thereby further increasing the amount of assets in the country but not the amount of money. Or they might buy shares in another person’s production business, which shares are basically a business playing banker; accepting deposits from share buyers and paying a dividend (interest) in return which dividend is a gamble that the business will be able to sell their product (albeit the business has no liability for the capital investment of the share). Or they might buy bonds which are basically governments creating share certificates using tax revenue to cover the dividend repayment. Or they might go to pay the wages if one player employs another to facilitate production, gambling that they will be able to sell more product and thereby pay back the loan and interest and make profit. Then again, if the borrower can borrow enough, cheaply enough, he might re-loan the money to people who really can’t afford the repayments, but if he gets enough of those people he can spread the risk as a proportion will (all else being equal) honor (odd word in a gambling situation) their commitments, and those honoring will see the gamble pay off. The crucial thing is that the amount of money in the system does not change, it is rolled ever thinner, spread over increasing risk thereby increasing the amount and value of assets and productive activity. But, I must say, what an idiotic way of running anything, the entire economic system post borrowing becomes a pokey machine. Surely a so called ‘intelligent’ species could come up with something better, more moral, and more sustainable than this piece of shit.
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December 15, 2011 10:22am
immigant

Yeah, we also need companies to step up and buy kids clothes for school. Also, I think someone, who are not the kid’s parents need to pay for their bus fares to school, too many NZ children have to walk. ANd more over, the better off should pay for the poor kid’s stationary. It is not fair that some children are able to afford books at school. What is more I think it is not fair that some parents can afford umbrellas and rain jackets, and others cannot seem to be able to go to payless plastics and spend 5 dollars, so the government needs to step up and make sure no child goes to school wet. Also, I’ve noticed that during the school holidays, many children spend time with friends and relatives in a controlled and safe enviroment, while many do not because their parents are loosers. I think companies and the government need to step up and help them, by legislating something about that and taxing the rich pricks to pay for it.
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December 15, 2011 10:28am
lilman

Cool leftyliberal Im for milk being supplied to kids as well, but as long as dairy farmers arent expected to subsidise it or at worst give it away free .
The tax farmers pay is no more or less than other businesses ,but then do other companies , that have shareholders , allow their profit to given away with no interaction with the directors of the company they own.
When was the last ime you got free,not subsidised,petrol form B.P-Shell or CALTEX, IT JUST DOSENT HAPPEN.
I buy alot of milk,but I dont expect to have a small part of NewZealand business pay for my breakfast.
Pay for it yes,give it to kids yes,but dont ask one section of New zealand to carry the can for the rest.
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December 15, 2011 10:28am
pollywog

Me, i’d cap executive salaries at x number times whatever the bottom person is earning, redistribute a precentage of the profit to them and re invest to create more jobs.

Yep you would and we would be worse off.

Open the market and the market will decide.

only in the short term until the new jobs kicked in and a level of equality was established.

regulate the market til the executives realise they’re not worth the money they want to be paid so only those who want to work or need to work for the company need apply.

If that means nurturing home grown talent to fill the gap, even better.
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December 15, 2011 10:39am
immigant

pollywog –

“regulate the market til the executives realise they’re not worth the money they want to be paid ”

Unless they are Pasifikanz right?
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December 15, 2011 10:46am
Falafulu Fisi

V2 asked…
Anyone heard of these guys?

I used to comment in that blog on regular basis about 3 years ago.

Anyway well done to Richard MacManus.
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December 15, 2011 10:48am
pollywog

Unless they are Pasifikanz right?

wrong
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December 15, 2011 10:54am
Falafulu Fisi

PW said…

regulate the market til the executives

Your comment is becoming more & more stupider. First, the level of salaries/wages paid to employees is the sole decision of the OWNERs’ of the business. Do you understand property rights? Its not your own (or Govt’s) fuck’n money. Second, you start doing that and you become like North Korea.
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December 15, 2011 10:55am
pollywog

Read the fine print on the money instead of just looking at the colours, the numbers, and the pretty pictures.

It’s ALL OUR fuckin money !!!
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December 15, 2011 10:59am
immigant

It’s ALL OUR fuckin money !!!

Yeah companies like Vodafone and BMW were built with OUR money. Lol stupid communist fuck.
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December 15, 2011 11:01am
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi: PG, how does the Govt think it can eliminate poverty? Is it via wealth redistribution?

They shouldn’t think they can eliminate ‘poverty’, that’s not possible. The aim of the committee is to look at what might be able to be done about it, so they also shouldn’t have preconceived conclusions.

I’d expect the Maori Party input to suggest some variation on our current wealth redistribution.

I’d expect National to be resistant to simply throw more money at the problem as they have been talking about helping people lift themselves off the bottom through fostering a better business and employment enivronment. I support this approach along with better targeted assistance and work incentives to those on benefits, which also happens to be along the lines of UnitedFuture ideas.
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December 15, 2011 11:05am
leftyliberal

@lilman: As Fonterra is a cooperative of farmers, surely it is farmers making that decision?

@immigant: If companies wish to step up and buy clothing for kids then that’s their perogative. It would be refreshing if you would debate the idea, rather than attempting to argue reductio ad absurdum based on the failed logic that if we provide one small thing we must provide everything. It’s really quite simple: We’re already redistributing a small portion of everyone’s income (and tax on their expenditure and investments) to those that are deemed in need. Part of that is specifically targetted at the children (WFF/DPB etc.) It is my argument that it is more efficient to spend that money directly on the children, rather than hoping that it is spent appropriately by the parents. I would have thought this would be supported by those wanting to give vouchers or payment cards rather than cash. In my opinion this idea is better, however, as it doesn’t have logistical issues of a payment card, increases employment (perhaps some of the parents currently receiving the DPB or UB could be employed to provide the lunches), whilst focusing the expenditure exactly where it’s needed.
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December 15, 2011 11:14am
pollywog

Yeah companies like Vodafone and BMW were built with OUR money

Tait electronics and the Britten bikes were built with OUR money.

What’s your point ignorant fucktard ?
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December 15, 2011 11:16am
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…
The aim of the committee is to look at what might be able to be done about it, so they also shouldn’t have preconceived conclusions.

So, do you think that the members of the committee have perfect foresight? If they can’t run a stall at a Sunday flea market selling doughnuts to make a 50 cent profit, then how on earth any sane person in the society think that this committee will be able to know the answer? Only a socialists would think so.

PG, the problem is just get the fucken Govt out of our lives and prosperity will follow. Its simple.
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December 15, 2011 11:17am
pollywog

It is my argument that it is more efficient to spend that money directly on the children, rather than hoping that it is spent appropriately by the parents.

Give the money to the schools to provide free uniforms and lunches ?
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December 15, 2011 11:20am
immigant

“Tait electronics and the Britten bikes were built with OUR money”

No they were not. They are not governmnet owned companies. Just some kiwi blokes trying to make a dollar.

My point is that you are a communist cocksucker after other people’s money.
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December 15, 2011 11:22am
Dyannt

Free milk.
And what if some kids don’t want to drink it? Teachers get trained in force feeding?

Another aspect.
NZ has high incidence of asthma I believe.
Milk can cause increased buildup of mucus in the lungs of some children. Are the teachers prepared to take the risk of worsening the health of some of their pupils?
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December 15, 2011 11:23am
pollywog

get the fucken Govt out of our lives and prosperity will follow. Its simple.

Bullshit !!!…Once again where’s your proof ?
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December 15, 2011 11:25am
immigant

@ pollywog

Bullshit !!!…Once again where’s your proof ?

Where’s your proof it won’t? Give us one example of a country that did well using the retard ideas you are proposing.
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December 15, 2011 11:27am
Falafulu Fisi

PW, it is regulations that stifle businesses. Get that out of the way, allow free markets to work and then businesses will thrive.

You should watch the following:

Progress Is Poison
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December 15, 2011 11:29am
pollywog

Your point is immigant.

…that you’re an ignorant racist fucktard with no fucking idea on much of anything except how to wank in public online.

and that’s the last word you’ll get from me addressed to you until you grow up and act like an adult.
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December 15, 2011 11:29am
pollywog

It is regulations that stifle businesses. Get that out of the way, allow free markets to work and then businesses will thrive.

It is regulations that limit the damage businesses can do to society and the environment.

Enforce regulations and society and the environment will thrive.
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December 15, 2011 11:36am
immigant

Pollywog

You just rage on about stuff but never give any factual proof. I just asked you for proof and you got none. Is that a Pasifikan thing or are you really that retarted?

So Britten Bikes and Tait electronics built with taxpayer money? Can I have the link for that so I’m not so ignorant?

What about proof that regulation will fix stuff. Go on let’s see it. Educate us all with some examples.

You must have done well on the debating team of at whatever Pasifikan school you went to. Just smash the opposition instead of giving proof.
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December 15, 2011 11:37am
Other_Andy

Euro plunges, Wall St drops overnight

The euro has fallen to an 11-month low versus the US dollar and global equities are extending losses on Wall Street amid fresh worries that efforts to solve the debt crisis will crimp overall world economic growth.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10773354

It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
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December 15, 2011 11:56am
Manolo

Ah, the mythical world of some “pasifika” nutter, where everything is regulated. Comrades of the world, unite!
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December 15, 2011 11:57am
Manolo

About the euro crisis: how long will Germany withstand the pressure to continue propping laggard, profligate states?
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December 15, 2011 11:59am
immigant

Speaking of recent spate of violence in NZ. Here is some intersting, but dated viewing. Check out the institutionalised assault. Teachers, parents and schoolchildren watch on and even participate. This is in NZ, in Auckland.

Please watch till the end. So who is teaching hate here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gVcYd7mC14

Am I racist for posting this? This isn’t Samoa, this is South Auckland these people are NZers supposedly, who share our values. This is also an organisation that is payed for with your money. It’s a charitable trust of some sort.

Is this the kind of behaviour we want in NZ? Do you see any Euro, Chinese or Indians in that video standing there watching?
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December 15, 2011 12:05pm
Falafulu Fisi

Pollywog, did you watch that video I linked to above? Watch it before you make any stupid comment here, because the more you comment the more I doubt if you ever attended primary school, let alone kindy. Your faculty of reasoning is beyond repair. Start educating yourself by watching/reading links that commentators here offer you.
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December 15, 2011 12:08pm
Scott Chris

immigant says:- “No they were not. They are not governmnet owned companies. Just some kiwi blokes trying to make a dollar.”

Any commercial venture is a symbiotic relationship between those that offer goods or services and those that choose to consume them and provide that venture with the revenue to borrow against and grow.

In other words, a public or private company is a co-dependent joint venture. Both parties should be grateful for one another because neither can stand alone.
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December 15, 2011 12:12pm
pollywog

Ah, the mythical world of some “pasifika” nutter, where everything is regulated.

not everything idiot.

Just the shit that needs to be to protect society and the environment from the excesses and greed of business.
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December 15, 2011 12:14pm
Pete George

PG, the problem is just get the fucken Govt out of our lives and prosperity will follow. Its simple.

In theory. In practice it’s far from simple – and the extreme you propose is unproven anywhere.

Do you think things will improve from the start or there will be direct and colateral damage before a recovery?
Are you suggesting a sudden change or a phased transition?
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December 15, 2011 12:14pm
Falafulu Fisi

Scott said…
Any commercial venture is a symbiotic relationship between those that offer goods or services and those that choose to consume them and provide that venture with the revenue to borrow against and grow.

Scott, why are you restating the obvious? What’s your point? 5 year old knows that you can’t trade with yourself. If find your commenting here is no different to Weihana. A need or an urge to say something even if it is redundant or obvious.
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December 15, 2011 12:16pm
pollywog

Start educating yourself by watching/reading links that commentators here offer you.

yeah nah…not when they’re recommended by nutjobs like yourself.
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December 15, 2011 12:19pm
immigant

Scott Chris

I’m not disagreeing with the symbiotic relationship. But to say that Britten bikes is built with OUR money? WTF? How many people actualy own those bikes, to be able to dictate what the CEO is paid. Example invalid.

Symbiosis is good, and SOME regulation is needed no doubt. But in the end, the consumer just needs to take charge. Don’t buy the products you don’t need or support a company you don’t like.
Don’t be a slave to consumerism. Sure you need regulation of some companies that provide ESSENTIAL goods and servcies like Power and Water, Internet but otherwise the free market offers an honest regulatory framework. People often get fashion confused with necessity and addiction, and that is when trouble starts.

For example why don’t we regulate the price at which Levis sells teh jeans. So many people rely on Levis for their jeans needs, but they are just damn expensive.
Or another example example, I don’t own an iPhone, because I don’t need it, so I don’t give a flying rat’s arse how much their products cost or who gets paid what in the company.

Get my drift?
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December 15, 2011 12:20pm
immigant

pollywog

Where’s the proofs to back up your arguments bo? ohhh that’s rite yous gots none. Faaaa shame bo.
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December 15, 2011 12:21pm
Falafulu Fisi

PW said…
nutjobs like yourself.

So, I’m a nutjobs, but I’m no social worker boring loser scum like you.
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December 15, 2011 12:23pm
Other_Andy

What’s Going on Behind the Curtain? Climategate 2.0 and Scientific Integrity

The Climategate scientists continue to claim that the actions disclosed are not bad as they seem and that nothing contained in the e-mails is really important. But this is like the Wizard of Oz saying “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain,” when in fact the real action is going on behind the curtain.

http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doctype_code=Article&doc_id=2319
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December 15, 2011 12:24pm
Elaycee

So Guyon Espiner has packed his bags and left TV One for TV3.

A lightweight, sock puppet – he’ll fit in well with the Labour cheer team at TV3.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10773371
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December 15, 2011 12:26pm
tom hunter

My eldest boy found these two radio advertisements the other day. I thought they were spoofs but apparently not – and the shop’s business has exploded following the running of the advertisements. Moreover they were not the idea of an advertising agent but the shop owner:
“They’ve been mistreated and misunderstood for generations….”

And:

I thought the feminists won this argument?
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December 15, 2011 12:26pm
pollywog

But to say that Britten bikes is built with OUR money? WTF?

they were built in NZ by an NZer using NZ money…OUR money.

The example was to counter the point your raised about vodafone and BMW not being built with OUR money. The relevence of which defies comprehension especially when you add they are not gov’t owned companies. WTF ?
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December 15, 2011 12:30pm
Sofia

The Financial Markets Authority has announced it will file civil proceedings against directors and promoters of failed finance companies Hanover Finance, Hanover Capital and United Finance.
The proceedings will relate to statements made in the December 2007 prospectuses and subsequent advertisements.
The FMA said it was likely to file the claim next year against the signatories to the prospectuses, seeking pecuniary penalty orders and compensation for investors.

Penny Bright is probably pounding krap out of her computer keyboard as you read this – ONE LAW FOR ALL
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December 15, 2011 12:31pm
Elaycee

“…they were built in NZ by an NZer using NZ money…OUR money.”

Should read: ‘they were built in NZ by an NZer using NZ money…HIS money.’

FIFY.
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December 15, 2011 12:33pm
pollywog

So, I’m a nutjobs, but I’m no social worker boring loser scum like you.

I’m not a social worker you dumbfuck.

comprehension problem much ?
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December 15, 2011 12:34pm
Falafulu Fisi

PW said…
they were built in NZ by an NZer using NZ money…OUR money.

It is not OUR fucking money idiot? How thick are you not to understand that? My business is my own property. My money, my assets. Not your/taxpayers’ money.

Britten bikes is whoever the owners/shareholders’ money. You’re not included. I’m not included.
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December 15, 2011 12:35pm
pollywog

Didn’t need to be fixed Elaycee.

OUR money…soveriegn currency and legal tender for OUR country.

point being, the companies i mentioned weren’t financed by foreign loans, were built from the ground up, meaning the profits generated stay in the country for the benefit of OUR society.

comprende fala ?
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December 15, 2011 12:38pm
Falafulu Fisi

Pollywog said…
I’m not a social worker you dumbfuck.

Now, you say I’m a dumbfuck. I have posted may articles here at Kiwiblog for non-dumbfucks like you to read on various threads, but they are/were unreadable to non-dumbfuck like you? If you didn’t understand them, then you’re the real dumb-fucker.

Your knowledge of how an economic system is supposed to work is simply equivalent to a 3 year old.

Anyway, how’s that social worker job of yours going? Are you bored in that job? You can always ask your local DOC office if they have any horse bestiality job available for you, since DOC want to preserve some endangered wild horse species down there in the South Island.

C’mon PW, you know that you’ll be good at that sorts of job if you don’t want to be a social worker anymore.
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December 15, 2011 12:42pm
Manolo

point being, the companies i mentioned weren’t financed by foreign loans, were built from the ground up, meaning the profits generated stay in the country for the benefit of OUR society.

A ridiculous, xenophobic argument that deserves no rebuttal.
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December 15, 2011 12:44pm
immigant

Love how pollywog’s arguments deteriarate to calling people names when he can’t verbalise his argument or provide proof.
I’ll will now drop down to his level and show off my creativity. Observe:

“Pollywog, where is the proof to your arguments, you hairy dog’s cock?”

Over all I have to conclude that if Falafulu Fisi’s brain runs like a moderatley priced laptop, mine runs like a scientific culculator, pollywog’s level of reasoning is somewhere between a steamboat and an abbacus.
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December 15, 2011 12:45pm
Griff

the cost of building a house
materials rip of pricing ie sced 1260 sewer pipe 120$ RETAIL available for 40$ if you shop around plumbers make a 200% markup un avoidable as you must employ a licensed practitioner/ thief to install
builders must use certified installed scaffolding if over 1.2 m more bloody money every things ripoff treated framing grade 100x50n at 4.50M bullshit
Then there is the council and the bloody building code
Massive knee jerk reaction to leaky homes adding cost for little gain eves a simple way to insure water tightness simple solve
Who decided that leaky homes were OK in the beginning the same fuckwits that wrote the code yet as a result they have taken more control of the process more fucking bureaucracy

add in the hoops that building consent brings landscape bloody impact archaeological koha and all the rest Its MY land its up to me what I do on it. why dont they just fuck off and leave me to it ITS my land my house not hundreds of face less bureaucrats

Vote for less bullshit vote right liberal if we can get a party that stands for that again it will get my vote
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December 15, 2011 12:48pm
pollywog

A ridiculous, xenophobic argument that deserves no rebuttal.

another argument so powerful it does nothing but emphasise your idiot credentials.

you’re batting way above avergae today champ.
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December 15, 2011 12:50pm
labours a joke

“that you’re an ignorant racist fucktard with no fucking idea on much of anything except how to wank in public online”

Bawhaha!! Pot meet kettle. Youre a fuckin idiot P-Wog..why dont you get on a plane and fuck off to North Korea..what a douche.
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December 15, 2011 12:51pm
Falafulu Fisi

Pollywong said…
OUR money…soveriegn currency and legal tender for OUR country.

There are some local companies that do have foreign investors own shares in them. Rod Drury’s Xero software company, I’m aware that he’s got overseas investors that poured huge amount of money into that company in the last year or so. Flow of capital across border is a good thing. It shows that your thick head is too thick to understand that.
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December 15, 2011 12:52pm
Scott Chris

Oops, posted this on the wrong day….Easy one:

A farmer had 17 cows all but 9 died. How many did he have left?
.
.
.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Answer upside down: 6
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December 15, 2011 1:01pm
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…
In theory. In practice it’s far from simple – and the extreme you propose is unproven anywhere.

Did you watch the video above PG? You should watch it too.

And how the hell can you prove that over-regulations of today is working?

Where is your proof?

PG, I had posted many videos here mainly on the GD thread in the past for you to watch but I bet that you didn’t watch them. There was a FOX news video interview withe the former CEO of Sun Microsystem (Scott McNeally), where he said that the amount of regulations in California is unbelievable. His new company applied for a factor building permit and it took a whole fucking year to be approved and he spent more than a million $ on paying his legal fees. He finally took his business and company to Texas (I think). Who’s the loser? Yep, California. The winner? Of course it is Texas.

California is about to collapse. WHY Pete George? I’ll let you figure that out. California needs thriving businesses there, because they’re basically bankrupt, but over-regulations will accelerate them towards that, because businesses will go somewhere else. The slow growth in the US economy can be pointed at the over-regulations. That country will collapse financially if they don’t change direction by repealing regulations that hinder businesses.

PG, I find your reasoning as uninformed as Pollywog.
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December 15, 2011 1:01pm
pollywog

Please note how i remain on point, can rationalise an argument without unsolicited links and references, am civil until personal abuse is levelled at me, at which point i reply in kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat

If only people were more like me, how much better society would be.
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December 15, 2011 1:01pm
labours a joke

“A farmer had 17 cows all but 9 died. How many did he have left?”

Did some native beat them to death maybe?
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December 15, 2011 1:04pm
immigant

If only more people were like you pollywog we’d all be communist Pasifikanz.
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December 15, 2011 1:05pm
lilman

Leftyliberal,im not a farmer,but i work in a rural area and to say the shareholders of fonterra have a say in the day to day decisions is laughable.
Did they or were the asked about nthe ten year shout?,no way.
Did they ask about freezing the price of milk?,no way.
Did they ask about giving free milk to schools?no way.
Reality is that businessmen being paid millions dont have to ask,just feel vindicated about looking good.
If I were a shareholder I would be pissed.
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December 15, 2011 1:05pm
Viking2

Over all I have to conclude that if Falafulu Fisi’s brain runs like a moderatley priced laptop, mine runs like a scientific culculator, pollywog’s level of reasoning is somewhere between a steamboat and an abbacus.

Stop insulting steam boats.
They are great.
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December 15, 2011 1:08pm
pollywog

Flow of capital across border is a good thing.

Never said it wasnt ya boring twat, but it seems you’ve finally got int into your thick head that i’m not a social worker.

Still, you really do have a comprehension problem or selectively limited reasoning capabilities eh ?

You’re not a big picture person are you ?… Not a visionary. More like an echo repeater, the classic bug in a rug who can’t see the elaborate pattern…sad really
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December 15, 2011 1:12pm
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi – I agree that in many ways we are over-regulated, I’d like to see much of that simpliified and relaxed, but in some cases a lack of regulation has allowed major problems (like causing major recessions).

There are various reasons why California (and the US) is stuffed, one of which is that the power of money plays to big a part in their politics.

No I don’t avidly read and watch all your links. But I’d suggest I’ve experienced a lot more real life than you, especially practical business life.

BTW, if you abused and name called less you might be a bit more credible.
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December 15, 2011 1:13pm
Falafulu Fisi

PW said…
Still, you really do have a comprehension problem or selectively limited reasoning capabilities eh ?

Yep, correct. My limited reasoning capability just barely got me a PhD in Photonics/Opto-Electronics? And your reasoning capability madam? Yep, your reasoning capability suits you being a social worker. The only other thing you can do apart from being a CYF’s social worker is to apply for a horse bestiality job at your local DOC office. You know, it suits your reasoning capability. You don’t have to reason with a horse. The horses at the DOC’s wild parks can communicate really well with you, no doubt.
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December 15, 2011 1:20pm
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…
a lack of regulation has allowed major problems (like causing major recessions).

Recession is a creation of the Govt. I suggest that you lookup on some of the Youtube videos of Friedrich Hayek. He explains well the boom & bust (business cycles).
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December 15, 2011 1:25pm
side show bob

lilman 1.05pm, all so true I’m afraid. If it is believed Fonterra is run by it’s shareholders then they are mistaken. Fonterra does what Fonterra wants to do and this seems to include an agenda that increasing looks like something out of a PC, left wing, big government bureaucracy .
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December 15, 2011 1:26pm
immigant

You recon Pollywog is a wymin? Notice how I am trying to be culturaly sensitive and politicaly correct. God forbif I get branded a sexist and rasist at the same time. Would explain the hysterical tone of her posts.
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December 15, 2011 1:26pm
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi at 1:20 pm – your abuse is getting downright nasty, I think it’s time you pulled your fingers in. Comments like that reflect badly on Kiwiblog.

This is a community, show some respect for others in it, and especially for DPF.
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December 15, 2011 1:31pm
EverlastingFire

5 years for a life: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6144433/Cop-killing-teen-jailed-for-five-years
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December 15, 2011 1:32pm
James Stephenson

but in some cases a lack of regulation has allowed major problems (like causing major recessions).

No Pete, it’s usually that regulation has created distortions that cause major problems. The GFC is not a failure of capitalism, it a failure to allow capitalism to work.
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December 15, 2011 1:34pm

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