General Debate 11 January 2012

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calendar girl

New Zealand petrol retailers have been quick to push up the price of fuel on what they perceive as a new threat to oil prices from growing tension between USA and Iran over the latter’s nuclear intentions.

Interestingly, the so-called risk of a serious spike in oil prices is not shared by all financial commentators: http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/markets/Iran_oil_price/index.htm . The Saudis are seen as being very ready to make up for any shortfalls that may occur in Iran’s exports of 2.2 million barrels of oil per day.

Ah well, any old excuse has always been enough for petrol stations to hike their prices in this country, or to act very slowly in reducing prices as crude oil becomes cheaper. Even the strength of the NZ$ (back up to 0.7936 against the US$ on this morning’s exchange rate) won’t moderate that behaviour.
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January 11, 2012 8:11am
reid

See this here: expert says council-appointed POA board is reason for strike:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10777921

My understanding is in 2006 when POA and TGA were looking to merge, both ports were in favour of merging, but the politicians didn’t think it would be a popular move so they nixed it.

If the above article is true then once again, the political decisions get glossed over and hidden from view, by the politicians themselves, while the media doesn’t even notice them.
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January 11, 2012 8:12am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Auckland Port strike

But Mr Wigmore said the attempted changes were in line with international trends. “From our work with other ports around the world, this is just a consistent trend … ports are having to move away from the rigid labour models that have been run in the past to more flexible ones,” he said.

So fix it although it didn’t seem entirely broken …

… a statement from Gibson to his employees in September said the rate of cargo unloaded off ships is “the best ever recorded at the Ports of Auckland”. The union says the port is the second most time-efficient in Australasia, next to Tauranga. The advantage Tauranga has is not its workforce, but the system it uses. The union has offered to assist implementing that system in Auckland.

however …

Since the Super City came into being 14 months ago, the Auckland Council has instructed the new board to double its dividend from a 6 per cent rate of return to 12 per cent over five years. The company currently pays a dividend of about $18 million to its shareholder.

and …

A handout from Mr Gibson said the ports company had an obligation to provide a reasonable rate of return on the community’s investment with the company, setting a minimum rate-of-return target of 8.2 per cent.
but …

Mr Gibson said the recent loss of business by Maersk and Fonterra could cut port revenue by $25 million a year with no perceived opportunity to replace this revenue.

so they were making $ 18 million at the moment [6% return] but want to make a minimum of $24.6 {8.2%] but have already lost $ 25 million. How many years will it take to just catch up again?
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January 11, 2012 8:25am
hmmokrightitis

Thank you Penny “batshit” Bright, for your latest effort in reading of financial statements. Cue crys of outrage from the idiots who will believe just about anything you tell them if it fits their argument. I haven’t lol’d so much for ages. The Standard and some of its rabid commentators really are quite thick. But thanks for the giggles. You’ve made my week.
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January 11, 2012 8:31am
Keeping Stock

Penny Bright as a stand-up comic? Yeah; that might work; as a parody of a 1970’s counter-revolutionary rather like Wolfie Smith. There’s hope for her yet.

But as a credible representative for the Left on issues of social justice and corporate governance; crikey, I reckon even Phillip Ure would have more cerdibility.
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January 11, 2012 9:01am
immigant

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6238042/Deport-me-and-I-ll-die-says-Tiny

This news article has me thinking – “Oh my God! Who the fuck cares?”
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January 11, 2012 9:04am
joana

Why is the Iraqi who went berserk in the CYF office in Papanui and nearly strangled a woman out on bail? One law for NZers , another law for so called refugees.
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January 11, 2012 9:07am
Scott Chris

Funny Story:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/6229877/PMs-Tourettes-jibe-called-foul

➡ “British Prime Minister David Cameron’s Tourette’s jibe against Labour’s Ed Balls has landed him in hot water with disability campaigners.”

What a load of bollocks. Apparently Balls is a serial heckler. Sounds like a bit of a cock to me.

You might call this political political correctness gone too far…
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January 11, 2012 9:21am
trout

Puzzled @ 8.25; re POA you are confusing gross income lost ($25 mill.) with profit after costs (which is paid out as dividend – after tax).
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January 11, 2012 9:28am
RightNow

When a complex models predicts a future that is hugely different from the past with the major change being a fraction of a trace gas, the model forecast has a huge chance of being totally wrong.
When you have ten years or more, (1998-2012) where dire forecasts of major warming did not happen, the model forecast has a huge chance of being totally wrong.
When the models show ice volume is decreasing and Leap Second Data shows the ice volume is increasing, the model forecast has a huge chance of being totally wrong.
The problem with computers is that people start believing the numbers that come out and they quit thinking.
Look at the data. There is no actual data that is out of range of the last ten thousand years. Earth temperature is less than 1 degree C above the average of the past ten thousand years and it is not rising.

http://judithcurry.com/2012/01/09/too-big-to-know/#comment-157558
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January 11, 2012 9:39am
Dave Mann

It looks like Michael Law’s career on Radio Live has finally come to an end. He reappeared yesterday and Monday and now Andrew Patterson is on in his place and the station intro no longer says “So-and-so in for Michael Laws”.

I didn’t hear any terribly un-PC gaffes on Monday or Tuesday…. I wonder what went wrong? Anyway, I think it’s all over, Rover. Pity…. he was a breath of fresh air on the airwaves.
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January 11, 2012 9:52am
reid

Re: POA and the required ROI set by the board doubling from 8% to 16%: Seriously though notwithstanding casualisation is required it’s not optional, the fact is the board’s decision to double the ROI requirement in these particular times is seriously idiotic. It’s almost as bad as what the US govt is currently doing to the US Postal Service which has been required to set aside $5 billion p.a. for pensions for employees who haven’t even been hired yet and as a result it’s made the decision to close 50% (250) mail processing centres, fire 100,000 employees and reduce mail delivery times which makes snail mail even more redundant because who wants a newspaper that’s 2-5 days old?

My point is not what’s happening to the USPS it’s simply giving an example of an unreasonable political demand which is having significant ramification on the business its supposed to be stewarding and this is what the POA board has done here, as well. Like I said above, casualisation needs to happen anyway, but expecting a port to double its return in these particular times is a mental decision. I mean, if one was involved in that decision, then how precisely did they think POA was going to meet that target in these particular times if not by doing what they’ve done? If that was in fact the only possible alternative and if not what others were considered, then how come the council hasn’t been conducting itself all along as if they’d thought this thing through ages ago and had accordingly engaged their PR and other people to come up with a plan in the form of detailed tactics to be used in any eventuality?

Perhaps they did that and the PR experts advised them they’d best not say anything and pretend they weren’t involved for that appears to be their strategy. I wonder, given the board is responsible for looking at the external environment not at the internal operations and acting to nurture customers and prevent any negative influences that may arise which may affect the business, what their risk assessment was of the liklihood of the union getting stroppy and causing a prolonged strike and a major customer walking to TGA, as a result of their decision to double the ROI? Regardless, the only thing one can say looking at it from the outside is they’re certainly doing a very good job helping POA to meet its targets, aren’t they.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-05/news/30476320_1_distance-mail-mail-processing-centers-first-class-mail
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January 11, 2012 9:55am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Reid@9:55

Poor Lyen bloody Brown. There goes the money for his train set. No wonder he was jumping up and down. Now he’ll have to put the rates up AGAIN to cover the cost of the train set AND the port losses.

Now that the wharfies at last have been stumped,what about bowling a few yorkers at the teachers and the meat workers?
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January 11, 2012 10:07am
Scott Chris

Righnow quotes commenter Herman Alexander Pope:- “When a complex models predicts a future that is hugely different from the past with the major change being a fraction of a trace gas, the model forecast has a huge chance of being totally wrong.”

This guy is employing “gut instinct” science. Which ain’t science.

Interesting topic being discussed though:

http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/to-know-but-not-understand-david-weinberger-on-science-and-big-data/250820/
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January 11, 2012 10:28am
Other_Andy

Interesting article

A Darwin boy may help to rewrite Australia’s history after unearthing what he believes is a 500-year-old Portuguese swivel gun on a Northern Territory beach.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10777866

It reminds me of the alledged discovery of the Spanish helmet in Wellington Harbour and the Tamil Bell in Northland.
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January 11, 2012 11:18am
Scott Chris

Independence Beckons For Scotland:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10777975

➡ “Salmond, head of Scotland’s semiautonomous government, has long championed independence to allow the country greater control over lucrative oil and natural gas reserves in the North Sea.”

Ahh, black gold…. tartan tea……
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January 11, 2012 11:41am
MikeG

What’s happened about Winston’s illegal candidacy in the General Election?
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January 11, 2012 11:45am
mikenmild

Other_Andy

Thanks for the story about the Portuguese gun. I seem to remember there is an alleged wreck site somewhere on the WA coast too.

As for the artefacts here, the Spanish Helmet was dredged up from Wellington Harbour, I think over 100 years ago. There is no way of knowing how it got there – could even have been lost overboard by a later arrival. The Tamil Bell is even more interesting. It does appear to be a genuine artefact from a Tamil ship and was found by Maori in the late 18th or early 19th century. With these sorts of finds unfortunately there is unlikely to ever be any was of connecting them with pre-1642 voyages.
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January 11, 2012 12:28pm
mikenmild

And wikipedia to the rescue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Portuguese_discovery_of_Australia#Kenneth_McIntyre_and_development_of_the_theory_in_the_20th_Century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_bell
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January 11, 2012 12:32pm
DJP6-25

Other_Andy 11:18. Thanks for the interesting link.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 11, 2012 1:30pm
Rat

MikeG @11:45

It wasnt illegal, Farrar got his knickers in a twist regarding a strawclutch, however, using his logic and fantastic legal skills, he failed to mention that the ACT party doesnt exist ( It wound up, under the act that Farrar was referring too), therefore 1% of the country got sucked in by a ghost party
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January 11, 2012 1:35pm
DJP6-25

mikenmild 12:32. Thanks for that link. It was very interesting.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 11, 2012 1:43pm
reid

See this here: Sunken Rena ‘could kill divers’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10777997

So what this guy is saying is the rear section should not be left at the bottom lest it kill those few divers who are dumb enough even to attempt to venture I think 90m down? So NZ needs to pay simply gajillions to clear it, lest in a few years time when it’s all over, one or two people can’t read the big HAZARD signs which would no doubt be placed there along with lights, sirens, whistles and probably fireworks as part of the new reef markings, and kill themselves.

I see.

I wonder what this guys politics is.
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January 11, 2012 1:53pm
Chuck Bird

Lawyer accused of indecent act to insult police
Last updated 11:19 11/01/20

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6240211/Lawyer-accused-of-indecent-act-to-insult-police

I wonder if she gets continued name suppression if found guilty? I ber she was abused as a child.
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January 11, 2012 2:02pm
Longknives

Immigant- That article had me thinking if ‘Poor Tiny’ hadn’t done a bloody Armed Robbery he might not have such problems with Australian Immigration!! What the hell did he expect?

I just can’t freaking believe this loser’s ridiculous sob story….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6238042/Deport-me-and-I-ll-die-says-Tiny
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January 11, 2012 4:36pm
Northland Wahine

Poor ole Tiny, getting a hard time cos he’s 6’10… how could he possibly defend himself?

*just shakes head*

And as for those 3 slappers in Rotorua? May they be infertile and never reproduce. Though I doubt the taxpayer would be that lucky.
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January 11, 2012 5:18pm
Megatron

Longknives I agree. I was feeling sorry for him until I read that he had committed an armed robbery…not shoplifting or car conversion…..armed bloody robbery!
I don’t blame Perth not wanting him. Unfortunately neither do we.
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January 11, 2012 5:46pm
plebe

When john boy key (is he back from Hawaii,his homeland) and old fart national sack all and sundry,well national just sacks New Zealanders mostly public servants,problems happen

A 15-year-old facing charges relating to the death of an Auckland man is missing after he escaped from Child Youth and Family (CYF) care.

The teenager was allegedly the driver of the stolen Subaru that smashed into a car at the intersection of the South-Eastern Highway and Carbine Rd, Mount Wellington, early on Saturday, killing 22-year-old Shaun FitzPatrick.

CYF operations general manager Grant Bennett said the teen ran away from a CYF-supervised group home on Monday.

“Police bailed him to this address with a range of conditions, which included that he stay there with a 24-hour curfew,” Mr Bennett told The New Zealand Herald.

“Unfortunately, there was a brief opportunity for him to abscond and he took it.”

Mr Bennett said when the teen is found and appears in court, CYF will ask for him to be remanded to a secure residential facility.

The teen was charged with dangerous driving causing death. He is due to appear in the Auckland Youth Court this week.

this kid will probably kill again racing but Key is getting a great tan in his masters homeland,dont hurry back leader, get your instructions and relax.
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January 11, 2012 6:33pm
Steve

@plebe. Comment at 6.33.

So it is John Key’s fault that this 15 year old stole and crashed when John Key is on holiday.
You are a fucking joke.
Now when this abnoxiuos little shit needs rehabilitating you will of course provide lodging and 24 hour supervision, won’t you plebe?
Oh no no no it is the Govt’s fault, fucking moron
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January 11, 2012 7:00pm
labours a joke

“A 15-year-old facing charges relating to the death of an Auckland man is missing after he escaped from Child Youth and Family (CYF) care.”

He’s fucked. Hang ’em high. The shits only going to be a drain on the taxpayer.
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January 11, 2012 7:48pm
nasska

A man and his wife are walking through the local Pak & Save, when the wife turns round and says “Ron, I would really like that face lift we spoke about in bed last night.” In response, he replies “You know we can’t afford it, money is tight and $9000 is a lot of money to find when you don’t have it.” Seeing her dismay, he lifts up a box and points out “Look love, this carton of Tui cans is a fraction of the price and it will make you look ten times better!”
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January 11, 2012 7:58pm
Steve

Lion Red, us seasoned drinkers have Tui and Export.
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January 11, 2012 8:02pm
Luc Hansen

RightNow (3,663) Says:
January 11th, 2012 at 9:39 am

The trouble with Judith, RN, is that she is making it up as she goes along. She is playing the typical game of the great deniers, sowing confusion in the public mind. It’s easy. Politicians do it all the time.

But even the BEST program, funded in large part by the Koch brothers, who deserve to be indicted for crimes against humanity, in my opinion, and set up to prove our scientists wrong, was forced to come to the conclusion that our scientists of NASA, Hadley, and the IPCC, as far as temperature rise is concerned, are dead correct.

So her assertion to the contrary, not backed up by any peer-reviewed science, should ring alarm bells.

Further more, Jim Hansen shows that we are now probably over peak Holocene temperature, and with an inexorable increase of 0.12-0.15C per decade, will soon leave that peak far behind.

You should go to his website and read his latest paper.

Just try it.

Or read this comment by Bryan Walker: http://hot-topic.co.nz/hansen-extreme-heat-the-new-normal/#more-10265
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January 11, 2012 8:14pm
Luc Hansen

Steve, snap, export is the answer – Export Dry, that is. I’m sitting with one Right Now.

And for a quick fix, Elephant beer warms the heart nicely!
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January 11, 2012 8:17pm
nasska

A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks, rocks about 2″ in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full?

They agreed that it was.

So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the open areas between the rocks. He then asked the students again if the jar
was full.

They agreed it was. The students laughed.

The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else.

“Now,” said the professor, “I want you to recognise that this is your life. The rocks are the important things – your family, your partner, your health, your children – things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.
The >pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your car.
The sand is everything else, the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you.
Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give
a dinner party and fix the disposal. Take care of the rocks first – the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.”

But then…a student then took the jar which the other students and the professor agreed was full, and proceeded to pour in a glass of beer.
Of course the beer filled the remaining spaces within the jar making the jar truly full.

The moral of this tale is:- no matter how full your life is, there is always room for BEER.
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January 11, 2012 8:22pm
Steve

It’s a hard road to admit drinking export, where are those elephants? oh, in the room?
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January 11, 2012 8:24pm
nasska

An official with India’s oldest and largest Hindu nationalist movement said a new soft drink made from cows’ urine could hit store shelves by the end of the year.

The drink is currently available in New Zealand under the name of Lion Red.
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January 11, 2012 8:29pm
Steve

Tastes like crazy womans piss? yep that would be Lion Red.
Gotta lick your arse to take the taste out of your mouth
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January 11, 2012 8:34pm
nasska

Steve

I haven’t drunk for a fair while but for bad taste I’d have to go back to a long weekend I spent on the North Shore about 40 years ago. We spent most of the time on the piss at some hotel (the Poenaroma or some name like that) & they had the choice of Waikato XXXX or some locally brewed muck……played merry hell with the intestines for a week afterwards.

Second worst was Leopard Draught (or lager). It was about all you could buy in Hawkes Bay & most of Gisborne a few years back. It was vile!
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January 11, 2012 8:44pm
pdm

Nasska – as a Waipukurau lad in the mid to late 60’s I know about Leopard Draught. Crap and all that it was it was still better than Taranaki Ale, Red Band and Gold Top. Gold Top was brewed in Gisborne and Wairoa and if they still had it there even the Mongrel Mob would move on.
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January 11, 2012 9:28pm
nasska

pdm

Taranaki Ale. I have drunk it & lived & would say the same for Gold Top but Red Band could have been worse than Leopard…just!

I used to do a few trips up to New Plymouth & you were considered gay if you didn’t drink their local muck which went by the name of ‘Taranaki Strong Ale’. It wasn’t too bad but I later found out it shared the same base as Tui or DB made a bit up the road at Maungatinoka.

Apparently it all comes out of the vat the same colour & is then colourised with caramel. Taranaki Strong Ale was the result of an extra dollop of caramel. Not that I rubbed it in next visit…..much!
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January 11, 2012 9:54pm
Elaycee

nasska / pdm: What about that vile piss that was served in a few bars in Nelson – wasn’t it called Harley’s?

It doubled as paint stripper and tasted like something filtered through an old gumboot. In fact, it was bloody terrible.

I’d prefer to risk a bout of amoebic dysentery courtesy of eating some dodgy curry from the back streets of Mumbai. At least the curry can be forced down between clenched teeth! 🙁
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January 11, 2012 10:06pm
nasska

Elaycee

Harleys (Horse Piss) was pretty bad. When I was getting around the country I was working as a truck driver & occasionally we’d get stock deliveries or furniture removals up the line. Go like hell get the job done, book into the pub for the night & put both feet in the trough.

I learnt that diarrhoea & semi incontinence brought on by drinking vat loads of strange beer makes driving a truck home the next day a dodgy business.
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January 11, 2012 10:22pm
Elaycee

“I learnt that diarrhoea & semi incontinence brought on by drinking vat loads of strange beer makes driving a truck home the next day a dodgy business.”

Sounds like you’ve made a few trips home with the truck windows down….. Hah! 😛
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January 11, 2012 10:29pm
joana

The young man who died courtesy of the 15 yr old , was a much loved member of the online Honda network. RIP.
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January 11, 2012 11:47pm
Swiss33

There is nothing ‘alleged’ about the Spanish Helmet. It sits in Te Papa museum with lots of mystery sitting around it. The Tamil Bell was also an interesting mystery, but neither can touch the Ruamahanga Skull (look it up on Google – plenty of news articles and even NZ Geographic reported on it).

So far as the Spanish Helmet theory goes, there is a novel called The Spanish Helmet by Greg Scowen available at Amazon ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Spanish-Helmet-ebook/dp/B00537SKMA ). It is a conspiracy thriller/historical fiction novel that is based on the story of true lost Spanish explorer Francisco de Hoces.
An Australian professor of Pacific history theorised that this de Hoces chap actually discovered New Zealand. Perhaps the helmet belonged to him?
Greg Scowen used this theory as the basis for his novel. Is an interesting read for anyone with questions about NZ’s true history.
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January 12, 2012 1:24am

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