General Debate 14 March 2013

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Pete George

IrishBill is usually one of the more astute and reasoned of authors at The Standard but he has posted an attack on “the right” in general and David Farrar in particular in The right’s fear of democracy

This is a typical lashing out type attack when facing failure, and Irish asks some questions of DPF regarding transparency that I bet he won’t ask himself or his fellow authors.

I’ve pointed out how even Standard commenters see Irish’s hypocrisy and selective standards of democracy – “The right hate democracy”

And a full response – Fisking IrishBill’s leprechaun

They have a referendum lemon and the bitterness is showing.
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March 14, 2013 8:09am
flipper

Good morning 🙂
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March 14, 2013 8:10am
Judith

Good Morning Flipper

57% say YES
11% don’t know
32% say No

Guess what the question was! 🙂

http://www.3news.co.nz/Poll-shows-support-for-Bain-compensation/tabid/1607/articleID/290168/Default.aspx
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March 14, 2013 8:12am
RightNow

Climategate 3: “FOIA” selectively releases the password to the archive, and declares his motivations:

Most would agree that climate science has already directed where humanity puts its capability, innovation, mental and material “might”. The scale will grow ever grander in the coming decades if things go according to script. We’re dealing with $trillions and potentially drastic influence on practically everyone.

Wealth of the surrounding society tends to draw the major brushstrokes of a newborn’s future life. It makes a huge difference whether humanity uses its assets to achieve progress, or whether it strives to stop and reverse it, essentially sacrificing the less fortunate to the climate gods.

We can’t pour trillions in this massive hole-digging-and-filling-up endeavor and pretend it’s not away from something and someone else.

If the economy of a region, a country, a city, etc. deteriorates, what happens among the poorest? Does that usually improve their prospects? No, they will take the hardest hit. No amount of magical climate thinking can turn this one upside-down.

It’s easy for many of us in the western world to accept a tiny green inconvenience and then wallow in that righteous feeling, surrounded by our “clean” technology and energy that is only slightly more expensive if adequately subsidized.

Those millions and billions already struggling with malnutrition, sickness, violence, illiteracy, etc. don’t have that luxury. The price of “climate protection” with its cumulative and collateral effects is bound to destroy and debilitate in great numbers, for decades and generations.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/climategate-3-0-has-occurred-the-password-has-been-released/
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March 14, 2013 8:15am
thedavincimode

The fix is in. Brazil a shoe-in for the World Cup.
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March 14, 2013 8:21am
Chuck Bird

Does anyone know which way individual MPs voted on Winston’s amendment to Wall’s bill calling for a referendum before her bill could become law? I bet all the Greens voted against it. They only talk about democracy when is suits them.
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March 14, 2013 8:25am
flipper

Silly Len’s flunky, Penny Hulse, has gone off her head- yet again.

This time Hulse’s crack at local giovernment/housing costs is about 15% GST on building costs and comparing that to Council dedvelopment taxes of 4 %. She also complains that developers are left with about 16% of the cost of building lots. But like all idiots of Brown/Hulse/Lee ilk, totally financially illiterate. Her description of a “developer’s 16%” as profit defies belief. Of course engineers fees, surveyprs fees, water and sewage articulation costs. roading and curbing costs, promotional fees, commissions, and, not the very least, finance holding costs, count for nothing. All those before turning a dollar profit.

With such folk again presenting for re-election later this year, the best course of Central Government action would be to abolish all local government. 🙂
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March 14, 2013 8:25am
Andrei

LOL – Headline in the Herald, Catholic pope elected.

They were hoping for a Presbyterian lesbian?
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March 14, 2013 8:26am
lilman

Cool, new pope!!!!!!!!!!
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March 14, 2013 8:26am
Doc Holliday

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10871107

All Winston’s men voted against fake marriage.
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March 14, 2013 8:31am
Doc Holliday

Read all about it: No Pressy Lessie for Pope.
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March 14, 2013 8:34am
Lance

@Andrei
Fairs fair

Definitely could have been a ‘Destiny’ Pope.
You never know these days.
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March 14, 2013 8:35am
barry

On the day when the NZ parliament let the marriage act get watered down to mean basically nothing, the Cardinals elect a leader who will have nothing to do with the idea of queer marraige.

As the church has lasted 2000 years I suspect he will have more influence on the acceptance of queer marriage than a few MPs.
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March 14, 2013 8:36am
hj

All Winston’s men voted against fake marriage.
…..
kind of silly, like what the hell does NZ First stand for?.. these parties are just voters by proxy. We need a better system where the public can navigate choices provided they can pass test to show they understand the issues (perhaps).
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March 14, 2013 8:45am
hj

So you’re for asset sales Pete George: good for you! (Little Sensible),, Actually, the thing in United Future is like a cling fish on a shark. It would never have a bold position such as Land Taxes (a peoples stake).. too risky.. We’ll just tag along).
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March 14, 2013 8:49am
Pete George

barry, the Pope might influence some comment but will have nothing to do with what our democracy decides.

Referencing “queer marriage” is interesting, especially as the catholics have had some queer issues of their own apart from lauding some queer sorts of marriage arrangements.
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March 14, 2013 8:50am
SGA

@barry 8:36am

I’d guess he probably will have nothing to do with the idea of contraception either, but that’s not going to stop a lot of Catholics (especially in the developed world) from accepting it.
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March 14, 2013 8:51am
flipper

Good morning Judith…
No second guesses required: Collins et al – Pay DB! 🙂
Was that Fairfax, or another?
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March 14, 2013 8:54am
Dennis Horne

Gay marriage is here to stay
The miserable lot got their way
Real marriage is in decline
“Bugger me”, they will whine
With our willies we must play.

Gay marriage is here to stay
Quite an inauspicious day
No real man in the house
Just a timid little mouse
‘Tis the children who will pay.
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March 14, 2013 8:54am
joana

Chuck
There was some mention on Nat radio this am, well at least the numbers were given and there was Tau Henare complaining about being lobbied about it and generally complaining.
Someone said recently that early morning TV one is now like playschool especially since the arrival of the new weather guy..Did anyone else see his white smoke stint behind the stadium? When is he going to crack one about the beheadings and crucifixions in Saudi Arabia?
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March 14, 2013 8:55am
All_on_Red

Right Now,
The release of ClimateGate 3.0 is good. We are going to need lots of popcorn for this one over the next few months as they sort through it.
Its looks more and more like its a whistleblower not a hacker.
What do you think?
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March 14, 2013 8:55am
Longknives

RIP Clive Burr (drummer for Iron Maiden)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww
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March 14, 2013 8:58am
Griff

RightNow (5,061) Says:
March 14th, 2013 at 8:15 am

Climategate 3: “FOIA” selectively releases the password to the archive, and declares his motivations:

Ho hum another report coming out from the IPCC then.

Of course its an unknown scientist this time.

funny that
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March 14, 2013 8:59am
joana

Cricket jihad in Kashmiri. Cricket is one of those things on the banned list like chess , playing musical instruments , singing , dancing , learning anything useful , enjoying life..
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March 14, 2013 9:02am
All_on_Red

“Ho hum another report coming out from the IPCC then”

Youre a bit slow Griff. We have already seen the release of the draft of IPCC AR5. Good reading too. Things like no increase in extreme weather or linking weather to CO2. Temps flat for 17 years etc.
Your belief system is collapsing as science wins through.
Found that missing heat yet? Fetch puppy fetch.
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March 14, 2013 9:12am
hinamanu

Naomi Wolf: The End of America

Comments from the Bush era
but it’s even worse under Obama

Anti-democratic trends are accelerating

There are three ways to interpret the goings on in the US today:

1. The country is under the control of idiots

2. The country is run by people for completely immoral people for their own profit who will do anything to make a buck including irradiate travelers in airports and fill the country with military weaponry

3 The country is run by fascists who know exactly what they’re doing

It’s getting pretty hard to accept Options #1 and #2 these days.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/government-corruption-1/naomi-wolf-the-end-of-america.html
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March 14, 2013 9:24am
Manolo

Helping to unmask the Chinese communists: http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/28720?c=cyber_security
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March 14, 2013 9:28am
SGA

@hinamanu

Well… these aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive options
The country is run by idiots for completely immoral facists who know exactly what they’re doing; anything to make a buck including irradiate travelers in airports and filling the country with military weaponry.
(tongue firmly in cheek)
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March 14, 2013 9:32am
wreck1080

The reserve bank disappoints me. Wheeler says he’ll prevent the dollar from falling sharply, but, does nothing from stopping the huge increases we’ve had. What happened to all the talk that it is hopeless policy to intervene in the dollar?

At least he’s finally come out of the closet and admitted he is using the exchange rate to control inflation.

I wonder if Graeme Wheeler is healthy? He moves a bit like he has Parkinsons (I’ve known people with this). Of course, it might just be his mannerism.

The dollar fell a fair bit after his speech, a massive overreaction and it will bounce right back to where it was and more based on this speech.
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March 14, 2013 9:39am
Manolo

The deluded anti-American president: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/03/president-obama-there-is-no-debt-crisis/
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March 14, 2013 9:41am
hinamanu

“Well… these aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive options
The country is run by idiots for completely immoral facists who know exactly what they’re doing; anything to make a buck including irradiate travelers in airports and filling the country with military weaponry.”

If you watched the vid and the educated commentary from an internationally published author you’d see you hit the nail about how the formula is repeated again and again. As the Bible tells us nothing is new under the sun
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March 14, 2013 9:44am
hinamanu

Vermont may become first state with mandatory GMO food labeling laws

by: Ethan A. Huff

(NaturalNews) The state of Vermont is poised to become the first in the nation to mandate the labeling of genetically-modified organisms (GMOs), following the recent passage of H.112 by the Vermont House Committee on Agriculture and Forest Products (HCAFP). In an historic eight to three vote, HCAFP voted in favor of the “GMO labeling bill,” which would require producers to put labels on raw agricultural, processed, and packaged food products that contain genetically-modified (GM) ingredients.

As reported by Vermont Right to Know GMOs, a grassroots collaboration of farmers and citizen activists working towards honest food labeling in Vermont, HCAFP’s affirmation of H.112 is just the first step in a potentially long journey toward full transparency in food labeling. But the committee’s affirmative vote is “a very positive sign,” according to the group, and one that indicates the ultimate goal of getting GMOs labeled is definitely within reach.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=359454287501351&set=a.225932444186870.49466.225921714187943&type=1&theater
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March 14, 2013 9:46am
RightNow

It’s spring in Europe:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/9925291/Heavy-snow-in-Europe-leads-to-road-rail-and-air-transport-chaos.html?frame=2507299
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March 14, 2013 9:55am
Pete George

John Armstrong has given his early impressions of how David Carter is going as Speaker. He concludes:

It is still far too early to say how Carter’s tenure will end up rating the in the long list of Speakerships. As far as the Opposition is concerned, the jury is still out.

What is clear is that Carter will apply the same approach he has employed throughout his political career – to quietly and slowly build respect among both political friend and foe for handling things in a commonsense, unfussy, and unspectacular manner.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10871117

The various juries will be out for a while yet, but Carter seems to be easing himself into a very hot seat in “a commonsense, unfussy, and unspectacular manner”. And it’s good to see him being prepared to learn and adapt his approach.
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March 14, 2013 9:57am
flipper

Chuck…
According to Sage, the Greens imposed the Whip and block voted in favour.The referendum idea is fairy-land stuff.

Say, does anyone else recall the day when the Editor of the Evening Post was cited and called before Parliament’s Privileges Committee, and later apologised, for writing that, based on statistics, one in five MPs were homosexual?
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March 14, 2013 10:00am
Manolo

Would Labour lite buckle? P.G. must be spitting tacks seeing his hero’s name defamed.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8424019/Govt-blames-Dunne-for-car-park-tax-mess

How more stupid and anti-business can this weak socialist government get?
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March 14, 2013 10:13am
Pete George

Not spitting Manolo, it’s got nothing to do with me.

A number of people have pointed out there is some justification for the intent of the proposal but it looks like self interest and practical reality will prevail – in part because of a successful spoiling campaign.

So some minor unevenness of the application of tax to perks will remain. I really don’t care much about it.
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March 14, 2013 10:25am
Boglio

Black is black and white is white. Black and white make grey. But black and black or white and white will never make grey even if parliament decree it so
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March 14, 2013 10:26am
hinamanu

“This cannot be tolerated”

Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, began an old-school, speak-until-you-can-speak-no-more filibuster on Wednesday just before noon, and was still going strong as of the moment this video was produced (5PM, ET)

From Karl Denninger: Rand Paul’s 13 hour filibuster against drone attacks on US citizens on US soil.

Rand Paul has correctly identified this as a place to stick a stake in the ground and say thou shalt not pass.

We should join him.

We should do so in a peaceful means of putting a stop to this crap.

There are such means.

Are you willing to take peaceful, lawful action now in a bid to prevent the spreading of gross lawless and violent action later?

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/obama-watch-1/rand-paul-says-no-to-obamasdesire-to-kill-us-citizens-without-charge-or-trial.html
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March 14, 2013 10:27am
Doctor Who

Tax on car parks? Dunne needs a gas monitor. What about a tax on unearned wealth, Dunny old chap?
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March 14, 2013 10:30am
Fletch

In case you missed it yesterday night – poll from yahoo.com

Would you like to see the Marriage Amendment Bill passed?

Yes 32% (3051)
No 64% (6047)
I’m Not sure 4% (422)
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March 14, 2013 10:39am
Manolo

Dunne would tax and do whatever his political masters tell him to do in order to keep his ministerial perks.

The whore of Ohariu-Belmont is a blight on the political scene, and I hope he can be defeated in 2014. It’s time to pension off this aging, meretricious politician and witness the demise of his ridiculous cult, UnitedFuture.
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March 14, 2013 10:42am
eszett

Seriously, Fletch? Just keep on clinging to an self-selecting online poll at yahoo.co.nz, while claiming that scientifically conducted polls are not relevant and don’t represent anything.

Unscientific sherry picking and confirmation bias all rolled up into one.
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March 14, 2013 10:54am
hinamanu

Google Glass

Master manipulation of the consumer masses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bSgKbugJ-s
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March 14, 2013 11:01am
thedavincimode

So some minor unevenness of the application of tax to perks will remain. I really don’t care much about it.

Hmm, OK.

So, let’s see if I can help fill in some background and see if you still don’t care.

1. The proposal is inequitable as between taxpayers. There is an issue of principle here, although that is not something that is likely to disturb Dunne who has campaigned on the basis of discriminating against single taxpayers and working couples.

2. Those who operate businesses in the real world know that there are all sorts of reasons for providing carparks to employees. In same cases, its to attract employees and therefore is indeed a perk. In others it is because their employees are required to travel during their working days without the benefit of company cars and are encouraged to use their own vehicles and be reimbursed accordingly. In others, there are concerns for the safety of female employees who work extended hours, including at very short notice, and there is a desire to avoid them wandering around on the streets and in grotty car parks during darkness.

3. Mobility and accessability is paramount in modern business nowadays and that explains the provison of smartphones and notebook computers (as distinct from desktops).

4. This FBT change precisely targets employers who will want to provide parks, phones and computers to employees for business use and who are not at all necessarily motivated to provide a perk. Bear in mind that the value of any “perk” element will be relatively insignificant in many cases having regard to the payroll cost where the employees are professionals (invariably, the sort of people I’ve just described).

5. The administrative burden imposed upon employers is out of all proportion to the revenue raised. National campaigned in 2008 on simplifying business operating costs for SMEs. This does exactly the opposite and is discriminatory to boot.

If you had ever run a business Pete and been fed up to the back gills with this bullshit and suffered not only the inconvenience of filling in the fucking forms and being taxed because you provide deemed benefits purely for business reasons, not for the employees’ benefits, you would understand all this. But I guess you haven’t, so you don’t. Forms for people on benefits, ACC, Kiwisaver, child support and so it goes on. Your support for Dunne and parents bludging off single teenage taxpayers earning $13.50/hr would tend to suggest that the discriminationfeature is lost on you also.
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March 14, 2013 11:14am
James Stephenson

LOL – Headline in the Herald, Catholic pope elected.

They were hoping for a Presbyterian lesbian?

The RC’s aren’t the only crowd that all their top man “Pope”
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March 14, 2013 11:31am
Pete George

thedavincimode – I have run businesses, jointly and on my own. I have also done extensive business software consulting. So I have some awareness of business administration tax forms. Yes, there is a lot of required business bullshit.

I have also seen how businesses and accountants and employees try to avoid paying tax in many different ways. If all businesses accepted paying reasonable levels of tax without actively trying to avoid some then we could have a much simpler and fairer tax system.

The complex system of taxing, and of administering tax, and administering businesses, is the result of trying to continually chase tax avoidance. It’s very difficult to be seen to be both fair and reasonable when some with a responsibility to pay tax are not fair and reasonable.

This is entirely my own view. I don’t communicate with Dunne on tax matters. From what I see from the outside Minister of Revenue is one of the more thankless tasks in Government, National are lucky to be able to have someone outside their caucus to take the flak.

Everyone wants someone else to pay their fair share of tax.
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March 14, 2013 11:37am
Manolo

Stone Age mystery? Where is the mythical stuff?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/kapiti/8422036/Whereabouts-of-whales-teeth-internal-matter
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March 14, 2013 11:40am
dime

Seriously, WTF???

Dime is back from partying in sydney. he visits kiwiblog for the first time in a few days, clicks the general debate and the first word?

“irishbill”. !!!!! WHO GIVES A FUCK PG??? apart from your boring ass!
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March 14, 2013 11:41am
dime

Dime arrived home last night. Got off the plane…

Used smart gate as usual. as i did i was thinking just how great it is. remember back in the day youd allow 40 mins for customs? now if im not out in 10 mins im shocked.

some customs lady who could barely speak english said something to me but who knows what it was. i just walked off. maybe she was being nice?!

then i got a laugh when i heard some chick say “oh isnt he cute” (speaking about a beagle). i notice she didnt think he was cute when he sat down heh

Dimes final observation while waiting for my baggage.. kiwi chicks are about 25% larger than aussie chicks.
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March 14, 2013 11:44am
dime

So after not much sleep, an angry Dime drove to work.

I hear a story on the ZB news. apparently some uni students in wellington have designed an app. good for them. apparently its so you can keep track of your friends when youre out on the town.

Heres where the story reminds me of why i hate zb news.

apparently one of the developers heard a story about how a girl was “RESCUED” using this app. Dime thinks “rescued? from what? had she fallen in the harbour? was she abducted??”. oh no. she had wandered a “couple of hundred metres and we found her talking to a real sleazy guy”.

seriously? RESCUED??? for doing what drunken chicks have been doing since the dawn of time?

it sounds like some pig has developed the ultimate cock blocking app.

no doubt this girl was “rescued” and then forced to dance in a circle for the rest of the night with her man hating, unattractive friends. all she wanted was some random dick.

anyway, zb news blows.
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March 14, 2013 11:49am
thedavincimode

Pete

I don’t mean to be offensive but seriously, if that’s your response, which included completely ignoring the points I was making, then you know fuck all about it and the crap that people that run businesses bigger than the corner shop have to put up with. You talk of “fair and reasonable” in the face of an argument that points at that this is precisely the opposite. Discrimination is not fair and reasonable. Imposing compliance costs in excess of any benefit is not fair and reasonable. You demonstrate no knowledge of the impact of dead weight compliance overhead on competitive business.
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March 14, 2013 11:58am
James Stephenson

Don’t know what it is about dime that reminded me, but today is one month since Valentines day, which means…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Steak%20and%20Blowjob%20Day
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March 14, 2013 12:02pm
Longknives

Dime-

Wan’t to give us a review of the gig?
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March 14, 2013 12:07pm
Longknives

Manolo-

Re the missing Whale Teeth- It’s a ‘Spiritual’ thing… us ‘ignorant’ Pakeha wouldn’t understand.
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March 14, 2013 12:09pm
dime

Longknives – sure.

First gig was Thin Lizzy. Motley Crue & KISS.

Thin Lizzy were great – just fun rock music. Great players. New front man is good. Had beers with a couple of them backstage. nice dudes.

Motley – vince was sick. they finished early. kidney stones. he went to hospital and had a small op! he sounded like shit. Tommy Lee is still awesome though. They had a big stage show. The loop thing where tommy does his solo, goes upside down etc.

KISS were cheesey and awesome. Gene is still a beast. Eric played awesome. Paul was great. The usual theatrics. Basically the same show i saw in 2001.

Got to hang with one of the guitar players from GNR. The tour manager was there too. Hes a good bastard.

Some interesting people around – doc mcghee (infamous manager). bob daisley was there. Paul Stanleys security guy was the dude who wrote the book “starman”. cranky old bastard he is.

GNR tuesday was amazing. 6th time ive seen them. best gig. musically they are far superior to the original line up. of course, they dont have the giant stage presence of slash & duff.

Axl sounded incredible. I was actually shocked. the power in his voice was insane. the last time i saw them he sounded great too (dec 2010 i think).

they played some long ass songs – estrange, rocket queen, november rain, heavens door. the version of dont cry was great. just the guitar player and axl.. rest of the band joins in. they did a lot of jams too. some great music.

they did another brock in the wall heading into november rain which was cool.

no backstage antics at gnr.

great crowd too.
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March 14, 2013 12:15pm
Pete George

thedavincimode – I think you show less understanding of my point than I do of yours.

I’m well aware of the burden of compliance. You should blame that as much on those who keep inventing new ways of avoiding tax as much as on IRD trying to gather tax.

If there was less creative accounting there would be less need for creative loophole closing.
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March 14, 2013 12:20pm
Longknives

Dime- Excellent. I am seething with jealousy.

I always feel sorry for Bob Daisley- He basically revived Ozzy’s career (wrote much of Blizzard of Oz) then got turfed out of the band as Sharon Bitchface didn’t like him.

I haven’t seen the legendary Thin Lizzy live, but they certainly have some respected musicians in the current line-up. There was a rumour they were changing their name to Black Riders or something? I love old Phil Lynott/Robbo era Lizzy…

Kiss are always awesome. I’ve seen them a couple of times and it just a fucking good time!
Likewise GNR, sure the ‘purists’ will bitch and moan about it being Axl and a couple of mates but they are certainly slick on stage..(As an aside- Rocket Queen is Longknives favourite GNR song ever….)

Sounds like a good time had by all..
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March 14, 2013 12:24pm
hinamanu

This is where we are headed again by the same old tricks

Examining the causes of the Wall Street Crash, when the US stock market lost a third of its value over six desperate days in October 1929, causing the loss of more than $25billion in individual wealth. 3,000 banks later failed and took investors’ savings with them. People who lived through that turbulent period describe the biggest financial catastrophe in history.

1929 : The Great Crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp1CttLLR0k
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March 14, 2013 12:26pm
Griff

Youre a bit slow Griff. We have already seen the release of the draft of IPCC AR5. Good reading too. Things like no increase in extreme weather or linking weather to CO2. Temps flat for 17 years etc.
Your belief system is collapsing as science wins through.
Found that missing heat yet? Fetch puppy fetch.

No increase in extreme weather
yeah sandy was not that big a storm ….eh…..
Only it was the worst flooding of new york.
Katrina is the most expensive again due to storm serge. Funny that doesn’t global warming include increasing storm serge

The drought heat and wet in Aussie.

The drought heat and wet in the states.

The wet and heat in England.

The flooding in Thailand

The drought here.

There is no extreme weather or climate change on planet denial :lol:.
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March 14, 2013 12:32pm
thedavincimode

FFS Griff

The entire population is trembling at the prospect of now having to take it up the arse and all you can do is rabbit on about A**.
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March 14, 2013 12:34pm
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers!

What’s a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power, Minister?

14 March 2013

(11.45am 14 March 2013: I have just phoned the Parliamentary Office of Tony Ryall, Minister of State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs), and his Office Manager has verbally confirmed receipt of the following ‘Open Letter’ OIA request. )

Minister of SOEs
Tony Ryall,

Dear Minister,

Please acknowledge receipt of the following ‘Open Letter’/ OIA request which I understand has been referred on to you as the Minister of SOEs.

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright
A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

http://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy/info

‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

4 March 2013

‘Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key – how can the Government ‘get a good price for Mighty River Power, when thousands ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’?

Dear Prime Minister,

Please be advised of the founding aim of the ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’ community group, of which I am a Spokesperson:

“MINUTES(CONFIRMED) FOUNDING MEETING OF ‘SWITCH OFF MERCURY ENERGY’

15 August 2012 Grey Lynn Community Centre 510 Richmond Rd Grey Lynn.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

HELP STOP THE PRIVATISATION OF MIGHTY RIVER POWER BY SWITCHING OFF MERCURY ENERGY! (100% owned by Mighty River Power)

AIM: To help stop the privatisation of public assets – particularly the proposed privatisation of the first of the electricity State-Owned Assets (SOEs), Mighty River Power, by FOCUSING ON getting 100,000 customers to SWITCH OFF Mercury Energy (100% owned by Mighty River Power). Fewer customers equals less profits which equals a less attractive investment and jeopardises the Governments proposed agenda.

“Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell” (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012 NBR

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-wont-sell-assets-if-it-cant-get-good-price-ryall-ck-121435

The Government has no right to sell our public assets.

PRECEDENT: In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatized) doubled their directors fees and raised their prices 12%.In 6 months, more than 40,000 customers switched from Contact Energy and their profits were halved.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/droughts/news/article.cfm?c_id=180&objectid=10590906&pnum=0 ……………”

____________________________________________________________________________________

Please provide the following information:

1) Please confirm that the publicly-stated position stated by the Minister of State-Owned Enterprises Tony Ryall, is unchanged:

“Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell” (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012

2) Please provide the information which confirms HOW a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power is/has been calculated.

3) Please provide the information which confirms WHO has/is responsible for the calculation of a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power.

4) Please provide the information which confirms that has/is responsible for the calculation of a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power, are independent, and professionally competent, and do not have any untoward ‘ conflicts of interest’ / vested interests in the sale of Mighty River Power.

5) Please confirm that you are aware of your statutory duties arising from the Public Records Act 2005

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345536.html

Purposes of Act
The purposes of this Act are—

(a)to provide for the continuation of the repository of public archives called the National Archives with the name Archives New Zealand (Te Rua Mahara o te Kāwanatanga); and

(b)to provide for the role of the Chief Archivist in developing and supporting government recordkeeping, including making independent determinations on the disposal of public records and certain local authority archives; and

(c)to enable the Government to be held accountable by—

(i)ensuring that full and accurate records of the affairs of central and local government are created and maintained; and

(ii)providing for the preservation of, and public access to, records of long-term value; and

(d)to enhance public confidence in the integrity of public records and local authority records; and

(e)to provide an appropriate framework within which public offices and local authorities create and maintain public records and local authority records, as the case may be; and

(f)through the systematic creation and preservation of public archives and local authority archives, to enhance the accessibility of records that are relevant to the historical and cultural heritage of New Zealand and to New Zealanders’ sense of their national identity; and

(g)to encourage the spirit of partnership and goodwill envisaged by the Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi), as provided for by section 7; and

(h)to support the safekeeping of private records.

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright

A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

http://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy/info

‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
______________________________________________________________________________________________

For more information on ‘Switching Off Mercury Energy’ and where to ‘switch’?

http://www.switchoffmercuryenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Switch-off-leaflet-2013-1a.pdf
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March 14, 2013 12:41pm
All_on_Red

Griff you muppet,
No one is denying storms and floods happen. The thing is that the FREQUENCY of them has not increased. This is well documented by BOM in Australia and NOAA in the US.
Storms of similar size to Sandy have happened before NY
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March 14, 2013 12:43pm
thedavincimode

Creative accounting??

What has that got to do with this FBT issue?? Yet again, you’ve made an uninformed comment, been sprung and then responded with a basket-load of red herring.

But since you’ve raised it, what exactly is “creative accounting” and how does “creative accounting” avoid tax given that we have a highly prescriptive regime? An explanation with specifics if you don’t mind; no more recycling of the Hairdo’s populist throwaway cliches. Your response should demonstrate that you do in fact know what you are talking about. And no more herring please.
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March 14, 2013 12:45pm
flipper

Fletch…
The according to the DPF post on polling,the “correct” term for the Yahoo effort is “survey”…..not “Poll”….not that it does, or that it will, make much difference..
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March 14, 2013 12:45pm
Griff

FREQUENCY of them (cyclones hitting the states)has not increased.

😆
Who said it has ?

The flooding of new york happened in a modern city where you would hope the consider the risk of weather extremes due to global warming.
As did the flooding in Katrina

Seems that defenses based on historic flooding did not work. I would think only a tin hat head could deny that.

What about all the rest of the extreme weather is that the meteorite or chem trails then?
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March 14, 2013 12:58pm
tedbear

A response to BlairM on Auckland Urban Sprawl.

“I try not to personally insult people, but..you write ‘Dumb as two planks, honestly…'”

I really don’t know what planet you’re on BlairM, but I’m on the planet that believes in user pays.

Should you or Mr and Mrs Average Overseas choose to buy a property in North Harbour where the current average property value is say $600,000 or Dannevirke at say $300, 000, then that is your choice.

If I was retired and had lived in Mangere for many years, I’d be more than a bit pissed off to see my property tax (rates) suddenly double or triple just because a whole bunch of Mr and Mrs Average Overseas decided they preferred living in North Harbour to Dannevirke.

I may be a bit thick, but I do take exception to be called dumb. I’ve been around a while. When I bought my first house, rates were for services for the property, i.e, running water to the property, rubbish removal and sewerage disposal. There were no rates for roading as they were managed by Central Goverernment’s Ministry of Works. There were no rates for Police or Fire Service, but I can guess these changes are not too far away. There were no rates for fancy stadiums owned by Private Businesses.

Yes, I agree there is plenty more land available in surrounding areas, but how far out are you prepared to extend?
Whangarei or Hamilton maybe? If not, why not? And then after Whangarei and Hamilton are gobbled up by the Hungry No Limits Auckland Machine, what next? For your argument, there’s no limit.

Then I must comment on some of the things that form part of New Infrastructure?
Maybe another 1000 police, their training, uniforms, offices, motor vehicles, etc, etc.
Maybe another 500 firemen/women, their training, uniforms, offices, motor vehicles, etc, etc.
Maybe another hospital.
Maybe another ten schools.
Maybe another fancy stadium,

You BlairM, seem totally in favour for your taxes/rates to increase three or fourfold and beyond just so Mr and Mrs Average Overseas decide to settle in North Harbour and not pay for their own infrastructure.

So, BlairM, when is not full, full?
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March 14, 2013 1:08pm
Pete George

how does “creative accounting” avoid tax given that we have a highly prescriptive regime?

One of the reasons we have a highly prescriptive regime is to try and eliminate unfair avoidance of tax.

Employee perks – expenses or benefits in lieu of wages to avoid being taxed PAYE is what the FBT is aimed at, it’s a bastard of a tax but it’s also a bastard when some employees of some companies come up with creative ways of reducing how much tax they pay while others have to pay the full whack of tax.

“Creative accounting” isn’t the best description because it’s vague and doesn’t cover many of the ways people try and avoid tax. Apart from employee perks there are many other ways, including personal expenses as tax free business expenses, mates rates, under the table, cash jobs and deals, black market, grey market, misuse of trusts, use of capital gains etc etc that avoid paying GST, income tax and PAYE.

I’d bet that some of those complaining the loudest about our highly prescriptive regime are whining because they fear they might lose some of their unfair tax avoidance advantages.

There’s a lot of work in running a business, and much seems like unnecessary adminstration overhead. But people in business have ways of avoiding paying tax that employees don’t have, and some exploit and abuse that, which means IRD keeps trying to find ways of minimising that.

But you don’t seem to want to hear any of this thedavincimode. All of us get the sort of tax regime that some of us deserve.
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March 14, 2013 1:09pm
Andrei

Pete George believes in the divine right of Governments to TAX, which means they steal money from us to employ bureacrats to come up with new ways to justify stealing more money from us.
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March 14, 2013 1:16pm
dime

Longknives – my hatred of sharon osbourne lead to me not listening to ozzys music anymore. i have been listening to a bit of ozzmosis lately but i struggle to get past the BS.

bob daisley got screwed. they even rerecorded blizzard of oz with new drums and bass. (rob trujillo played bass from memory).

bob lives in sydney now apparently. im sure he has lots of $$$
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March 14, 2013 1:17pm
dime

oh yeah, the other thing about GNR. i hear guys say “fuck you axl, slash rocks” etc etc

slash, izzy and duff all quit. they werent fired.
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March 14, 2013 1:18pm
Pete George

Andrei, you don’t have to live in a country that TAXES. You might have to buy your own island though.

Do you believe in tithing? Do you believe in social pressure to donate to an organisation?
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March 14, 2013 1:22pm
dime

“Do you believe in tithing? Do you believe in social pressure to donate to an organisation?”

the church takes your house and throws you in prison if you dont tithe? shocking!
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March 14, 2013 1:31pm
thedavincimode

Thankyou Pete for taking the trouble to confirm that you have no idea what you are talking about and that your only interest is in diverting attention from that fact by recycling the populist rhetoric that seeks to reduce all law-abiding and compliant taxpayers to the level of the tax base’s lowest denominater (evaders and fraudsters).

For myself, I fail to see how this discriminatory and inefficient proposed tax will address the issue of undeclared income and the filing of false and fraudulent tax returns or indeed the absence of a capital gains tax. Nor will it enhance IRD’s ability to investigate evasion and fraud or increase the penalties for such offences.
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March 14, 2013 1:32pm
dime

Steak & Blow Job day? WTF?

Nice!

My hot little chick just emailed that to me. Thats Dimes night sorted!

Cant wait for bourbon and anal day!
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March 14, 2013 1:33pm
graham

Confused.

What on earth does tithing have to do with taxes?

Taxes are compulsory, tithing is not.
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March 14, 2013 1:34pm
Ed Snack

God Griff but you’re reaching, and preaching the standard AGW falsehoods. I bet you are unaware that hurricane landfall’s in the US are on a downward trend and have been for over 30 years. So Sandy (not or just barely) a hurricane at landfall just happened to hit NY, but statistically, completely meaningless. And Katrina, New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen, they’d avoided the bullet for sometime but the various authorities knew that they would be vulnerable if a hurricane had to track the “wrong” way, they also knew (or certainly should have) that statistically sooner or later one would.

Your problem is that you swallow the whole propaganda line whole. No one scientifically credible claims that either Sandy or Katrina are in any way related to AGW, although lots of political activists do because it suits their agenda.
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March 14, 2013 1:49pm
James Stephenson

oh yeah, the other thing about GNR

Never understood the fuss about them, but then I was one of those that went to their 1991 European tour, saw Soundgarden and Faith No More and then went to the pub.

It does sound like the rest of the band quit because Axl was such a cunzor to try to work with
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March 14, 2013 2:57pm
Griff

No one scientifically credible claims
The number of hurricanes

I have not mentioned the number of just the flooding in my original post .
As to linking extreme weather to climate change
http://icons.wxug.com/hurricane/2012/billiondollar1980-2012.png
http://news.discovery.com/earth/oceans/sandy-and-the-record-arctic-sea-ice-melt-121102.htm
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/10/30/did-climate-change-cause-hurricane-sandy/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/climate-change-sandy.html

Typical misdirection
how many weather extremes did I mention?

Of those how many are you trying to deny ?

You are instead bringing up denial talking points. There is no more storms in the usa

Yes but those that are happening are costing more
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March 14, 2013 3:11pm
Manolo

Smoke another three joints, Griff. Your pot appears to be losing its potency.
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March 14, 2013 3:16pm
James Stephenson

Yes but those that are happening are costing more

That’s like the Jehovahs Witness argument that more earthquakes are killing more people than ever, therefore end of the world is nigh. Of course, population densities around fault lines are increasing…

Do you see why people say AGW is a religion?
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March 14, 2013 3:26pm
All_on_Red

Griff
No one disputes the world has got warmer. Its generally agreed its about 0.7 Degrees C over the past 100 years.Climate sensitivity is looking to be about .7 to 1.2 not 3- 6 degrees as Positive Feedback is not occuring.This warmth is good, especially since Green Policies are going to drive up power costs and cause increased fuel poverty- why do the Greens hate the poor and elderly so much?

But you keep banging on about “climate change” when the stats clearly show that there has been no change in our climate.
There has been no increase in storms or floods since 1880’s, which is when industrialisation is agreed to have started.
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March 14, 2013 3:34pm
dime

james – i never understood the soundgarden love people have.

to me they are an ok band and if i hear one of their songs on the radio ill listen, but id never sit down and listen to an entire album.

same goes for RHCP and foo fighters. especially foo fighters. what a boring, over rated band.

Faith No More on the other hand. Just a great great band.

Dimes favourite vocalists:

AXL, PATTON & Corey Taylor
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March 14, 2013 3:37pm
wreck1080

Why do maori feel they have a right to press noses with every celebrity who visits their region?

………..
Others such as Ngai Takoto spokesperson, Mangu Awarau was not so impressed.
He said Clarkson thought he was “above” everybody and did not feel the need to talk to Maori.
…………….
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March 14, 2013 3:48pm
All_on_Red

“He said Clarkson thought he was “above” everybody and did not feel the need to talk to Maori”

Well he is very tall. 6’3″ I think
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March 14, 2013 3:50pm
Manolo

Is this a bloody joke? Could any government entertain the idea?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10871137
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March 14, 2013 3:51pm
RRM

RRM has tried to listen to the likes of GNR, Kiss, Metallica… and failed.

I have no problem with the awesome power of rock, but it only really works for me when it has a bit of that Bon Jovi tongue in cheek. otherwise it is just meaningless bogan music…
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March 14, 2013 3:56pm
dime

RRM – what do you listen to?
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March 14, 2013 4:20pm
thedavincimode

Led Zep I would expect dime. How can you think that there is anything else. ?
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March 14, 2013 5:35pm
publicwatchdog

‘Open Letter’ to all New Zealand Members of Parliament – re: the purchase of shares in Mighty River Power

Reply from Tau Henare, National Party MP:

from: Tau Henare

date: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:05 PM

Kia ora Penny

All I will say is that you are right, the vote was won by us, in fact the election was won by us. Whether I or any of my colleagues purchases shares is neither here nor there.

Hop you have a nice day.

Tau
______________________________________________________________________________________________

‘Open Letter’ to all New Zealand Members of Parliament – re: the purchase of shares in Mighty River Power

14 March 2013

Dear New Zealand Member Of Parliament,

Please be reminded that the final vote on the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Act 2012, was 61 – 60

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/e/8/e/50HansD_20120626_00000012-State-Owned-Enterprises-Amendment-Bill-Public.htm

A party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.

Ayes 61
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.

Noes 60
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 3; Mana 1.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

1) For the public record, as a New Zealand Member of Parliament, can YOU please confirm – will YOU purchase shares in Mighty River Power, if they become available?

– YES or NO?

2) Is this the agreed position of the political party which you represent, as a New Zealand Member of Parliament?

– YES or NO?

Please be advised that your reply will be made available to both the media and the public.

Your prompt response would be much appreciated.

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright

A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group.

‘Anti-corruption campaigner’.
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March 14, 2013 5:41pm
Redbaiter

“Led Zep I would expect dime.”

Thought it would be Ricky Martin for sure.
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March 14, 2013 5:42pm
Rodders

Penny, it must have really “made your day” that an MP replied to your spam.
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March 14, 2013 6:06pm
thedavincimode

Why reddy, you were nearly funny. 🙂

Careful though. You’re entering unchartered territory so you need to make sure that you don’t get the speed wobbles.
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March 14, 2013 6:12pm
graham

Penny, couple of questions, if you don’t mind answering them.

1. You’ve made quite a big deal of the “if the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell”. As the IPO is, by all accounts, going to be massively over-subscribed, which will equate to a good price, presumably this makes everything okay in your books?

2. If you’re not intending to buy shares, can you put your name down and then let me buy them off you?
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March 14, 2013 6:13pm
thedavincimode

graham

masterley has beaten you to it I’m afraid. Perhaps the possum corpse cap crusader will identify some opportunities of a capitalistic nature here.
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March 14, 2013 6:18pm
Kea

Seems that defenses based on historic flooding did not work.

Griff

The defenses were not based on historic flooding. Historic, in terms of climate, is measured in thousands of years, not a couple of life times.

Why do you keep going on about chemtrails and other stuff ? You are simply trying to discredit the person as you are not able to discredit the argument.

Some might call you a harmless crank but people like you are doing real damage. Just ask Solid Energy who lost Sixty Million Dollars investing in some idiotic green bio fuel nonsense. This from a company that has tons of organic fuel in the form of coal.
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March 14, 2013 6:25pm
RRM

Dime – sorry I wasn’t meaning to shit on your music, that comment just came out that way!

Reliving my mis-spent youth with a lot of 90s rock & a bit of grunge at the moment.
Any time my daughter comes home from school talking about “one direction” (i think that’s a band??) I crank something by the peppers, weezer, foo fighters, nirvana etc. It is great watching someone of her generation bouncing around the room to some fun music rather than the shit her peers are sold on 🙂

It’s good for me listening to this music again played on decent gear also!
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March 14, 2013 6:57pm
Andrei

http://youtu.be/1KEEne5108w
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March 14, 2013 7:01pm
RRM

My baby boy is more into MJ… he’ll sit in his high chair and kick his feet spot on in time with the beat. Reckon he will be the man on the dance floor in about 2028 at this rate 🙂
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March 14, 2013 7:05pm
graham

thedavincimode: Ah well, maybe I can persuade some of the Greens. Surely none of them will want to buy the shares … 🙂
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March 14, 2013 7:15pm

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