General Debate 24 June 2013

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wat dabney

“Go wat wat a un known un linked site
real science comes from alt science blogs 😆
especially ones that use the outpourings of a religious nutwhack to prove climate science wrong.
we have already discussed mr Roy “god made it” Spencer and his religious based insistence that man can not alter gods work.
Then Wanking watwat links to the same drivel else where in the echo chamber. How unusual 😆
Epic failure to critically examine the source of your science 😆 ”

I just thought I would re-post Griff’s reply, in case anyone missed it.
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June 24, 2013 6:50pm
RightNow

“Epic failure to critically examine the source of your science”

Yeah, far more important to critically examine the source than the science.
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June 24, 2013 6:56pm
nasska

Manolo

….” Will the justice system give the beast a lenient sentence (again)?”….

It’s not so much the leniency of the sentence he is given….it’s the ridiculous way we reward repetitive offending by giving concurrent sentences instead of making the bastards serve each one on a cumulative basis. I note that he is in his mid thirties with about 90 convictions…..I wonder how many of these were punished by the ten for the price of one system.
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June 24, 2013 6:57pm
wat dabney

“Go wat wat a un known un linked site
real science comes from alt science blogs 😆
especially ones that use the outpourings of a religious nutwhack to prove climate science wrong.
we have already discussed mr Roy “god made it” Spencer and his religious based insistence that man can not alter gods work.
Then Wanking watwat links to the same drivel else where in the echo chamber. How unusual 😆
Epic failure to critically examine the source of your science 😆 ”

I did it again.
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June 24, 2013 6:57pm
Griff

I have answered that question at least six times over the last few years right now as both of us now its around 1.2 degrees sans feedback for double co2
You are of course going to claim based on another of the usual nut whacks that feedbacks are positive not negative
so what you still use nut whack alti blogs to get your science from.

Dr Roy Spencer PHD. My religion says man can not change the climate

Ex nassa astronauts and engineers. Over eighty unnamed and not scientists anyway.

FFS are you for real. Two Argument from authority logic fails in a row ROFL
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June 24, 2013 6:59pm
RF

I find it incredible that in spite of the proven fact that the majority of the scum offenders who rob and beat up the elderly or commit horrific sexual crimes are Maori or PI, no one has the guts to go public. Talk about the elephant in the room. I have heard of a few attempts to discuss this with the white Maori, Danny Watson on News Talk ZB and they get the dump button in lightning speed
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June 24, 2013 7:01pm
nasska

You could hurt their feelings or even make them feel stigmatised RF.
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June 24, 2013 7:03pm
wat dabney

“You are of course going to claim based on another of the usual nut whacks that feedbacks are positive not negative”

Showing your usual mastery of the subject you have the signs of the supposed feedback reversed.

Go Griff!
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June 24, 2013 7:04pm
RightNow

“Two Argument from authority logic fails in a row ROFL”
Are you for real? I argue from the observations, you’re the one who keeps trying to argue from authority with your faked consensus project.
The observations don’t support the theory of positive feedbacks.
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June 24, 2013 7:10pm
RF

nasska. 7.03pm. I am waiting for the do gooders and hand wringers to slither out from under their rocks to put me down. FFS its a pity they do not live in the real word. Obviously they vote Labour or Greens.
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June 24, 2013 7:11pm
Judith

RF (790) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 7:11 pm
——————————

I just gave you a thumbs down for making this very serious problem about politics.

FFS – it doesn’t matter which party people support, it is a societal problem that we should all be worried about – regardless of which party we support. This problem is not a political one – it is a sad indictment of a society that has lost respect for its most vulnerable. It existed during a labour government and it exists in a National government, and if the country decided to change to something different at the next election, the problem will still exist.

When we are happy to treat the elderly as second class citizens then why should we expect the idiots in society to not think of them as targets. We are the ones that put them in houses by themselves away from their families – – there will always be bad in society – but we are the ones that give them easy targets to prey on because we can’t be bothered giving the time and energy to look after them ourselves.
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June 24, 2013 7:23pm
nasska

Judith

…” We are the ones that put them in houses by themselves away from their families “….

It’s not always like that. Although I love my lot & their offspring dearly, living with any of them would drive me clean up the wall & round the bend. I’d hate not to see them frequently but both my better half & myself hope we can stay independent up until cremation or thereabouts. 🙂
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June 24, 2013 7:35pm
Griff

Giss 1977 to 1982 average for the year 2012 anomaly not the same as Spenser temperatures is it
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=5&sat=4&sst=3&type=anoms&mean_gen=0112&year1=2012&year2=2012&base1=1977&base2=1982&radius=1200&pol=reg
Spencer uses only the 20 to 20 region the tropics note the trend for the tropics 20 to 20 is lower than the trend for the globe by around .5
This is called cherry picking not science this is what mr Spencer is doing to prove his religious views cherry picking his parameters to suit his view.

Watwat thinks that unlinked un known websites have value 😆 here watwat this is the sort of shite such websites propagate
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76620
It must be true its on the web 😆 Nutwhacker.
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June 24, 2013 7:35pm
lilman

Penny Bright, god its only monday,get a life woman!!!!!!!!!
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June 24, 2013 7:45pm
RF

Judith. Not sure if you are a do gooder or hand wringer but I do have my suspicions. Following your recent posts is like tracking an elephant through snow as you obviously wear your heart on your sleeve. Unfortunately it is politics and the left including the Maori party and the Greens are in denial concerning the violence in our society. In my circle of friends and associates we treasure the elderly and it would be inhuman to treat them as second class citizens. The Maori race pride themselves as being very family orientated yet there are accounts of children put in spin dryers and hung from clothes lines. Not saying the whites are not guilty of horrific crimes but the stats do not look good for nonwhites. There now I’m a racist for stating the obvious.
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June 24, 2013 7:46pm
nasska

“I can’t believe you’ve even suggested selling our son on Trade Me!” he snarled.

“Listen to ‘Mr High & Mighty!'” she laughed. “You don’t have anything to do with him anyway!”

“I know, but he’s ginger – think of our feedback!”
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June 24, 2013 8:00pm
Kea

Is anyone surprised that the majority of papers approved by the climate alarmists tend to support AGW ?

The fact is that any scientist who questions AGW is dismissed and attempts are made to discredit them. No institution is going to allow their funding to be put at risk by publishing evidence that disproves AGW. There is only a consensus in the same way the Russian Mafia achieve a consensus. The only difference is there is more money involved in the AGW industry. Way more.

You can not forbid dissenting views then call it a consensus.
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June 24, 2013 8:02pm
Kea

Penny Bright, god its only monday,get a ~~life~~ boyfriend woman!!!!!!!!!</i?
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June 24, 2013 8:04pm
Pete George

The fact is that any scientist who questions AGW is dismissed and attempts are made to discredit them.

I call bullshit on that.
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June 24, 2013 8:08pm
nasska

Kea

Since you’re single at the moment couldn’t you pop up to Auckland at weekends & feed the tiger?

We’d really appreciate your sacrifice for the rest of us. 🙂
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June 24, 2013 8:10pm
Kea

nasska, I was just up there last week, but was busy feeding a Chinese Dragon 🙂

Maybe Red will take one for the team.
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June 24, 2013 8:15pm
nasska

Ye Gods Kea….think if the union was fruitful.

From Day 1 the creation would be capable of boring blog followers comatose at 100 metres. 🙂
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June 24, 2013 8:22pm
MT_Tinman

nasska (6,725) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Judith

…” We are the ones that put them in houses by themselves away from their families “….

It’s not always like that. Although I love my lot & their offspring dearly, living with any of them would drive me clean up the wall & round the bend. I’d hate not to see them frequently but both my better half & myself hope we can stay independent up until cremation or thereabouts.

Amen to that!
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June 24, 2013 8:23pm
Kea

Pete George, you can call out anything you like. Every attempt is made to discredit and professionally destroy any scientist who speaks out against the theory. If the AGW industry allowed them a voice then the whole edifice would collapse. Remember that climate fear is the alarmists only source of income. Without it they are unemployed weathermen who are lazy with the truth and can not accurately predict anything.
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June 24, 2013 8:25pm
Judith

RF (791) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
———————————–

I have worked with some of this countries most violent offenders RF. I am more than aware of what is held in our prisons and are walking the streets. It is because I have that awareness that I feel like I do.

It doesn’t matter what we do, there will always be bad people – there always has been. There are people in society that no matter what we do, will seek out the vulnerable and take from them, or worse. Therefore, it is up to the rest of us to protect the vulnerable.

An elderly mother should not be living in a house alone. Sure I have heard the argument “she prefers it, she doesn’t want to be a nuisance to anyone” etc etc. Anyone that leaves their elderly mother living alone in this type of society is a very selfish person.

You say you treasure the elderly, that is great – but there are many that don’t. Too many elderly people are left alone in this country. Sure I know the argument, they should be able to live alone – REALLY? A person that is degenerating in body and mind should be living alone? A person who has little strength? Rubbish.

We put our elderly in homes by themselves because we can’t be bothered looking after them – we visit them on Sunday afternoons and phone them when we can spare a few minutes – good thing our mothers didn’t feel that way about us when we were young and vulnerable and needed them to look after us – or none of us would have made it to adults.

I’m glad you are different RF. You obviously have your elderly mother or grandmother living safely with you or other family members and not out there alone – vulnerable to any creep that sees her as an easy target.
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June 24, 2013 8:25pm
Kea

Ye Gods Kea….think if the union was fruitful.

I would promptly become a believer and see it as a sign of the end times !
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June 24, 2013 8:28pm
Judith

nasska (6,726) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
———————————-

So would mine, at this point in life – but then I’m not living alone and neither are you by the sounds of it.

I’m talking about 80 year old woman that are left alone. In the area I live in there are lots of them. Five of my neighbours are widows left living in their family homes, all very weak and very vulnerable. They are sitting ducks! They couldn’t fight off a butterfly, let alone an intruder. It is a sad fact of life, as much as I hate to think about it, and obviously you don’t either, but one day living by yourself may not be in your best interests.

As a society we convince ourselves its better this way – its not. Believe me – I’ve dealt with an 89 year old rape victim – and I say it again, no elderly woman should be left to live alone. Families need to find a way to have them in their homes, and safe.
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June 24, 2013 8:32pm
OneTrack

“Griff (5,152) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 9:40 am
Just for flippy so he can rate himself..is flipper?
1 dumb
2 really dumb
3 a flipper
please read number 6 flippy
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-10-dumbest-things-ever-said-about-global-warming-20130619#ixzz2Wms1ID6K”

Where is number 11? – “The science is settled”
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June 24, 2013 8:37pm
Kea

I’m talking about 80 year old woman that are left alone. In the area I live in there are lots of them.

There are a few near me too. I keep and eye on them and they know they can call me anytime. It makes me upset how old folk are treated. Those that beat, rob and rape them, well …
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June 24, 2013 8:37pm
Dennis Horne

Kea (5,431) Says: June 24th, 2013 at 5:24 pm
Dennis, you are now resorting to attributing views to me I do not hold. I have said a number of times that climate is too chaotic for accurate predictions to be made. It is the alarmists who claim otherwise, inspite of their predictions being demonstrably wrong again and again.

If you agree it’s not simple what is the basis for your persistent assertion CO2 is irrelevant, “a plant food”? Wrong predictions mean the modelling is wrong, not that CO2 cannot have a significant effect.

The reason you will not face the reality that AGW theory is wrong has nothing to do with science and everything to do with you wishing to fit in with your peers. You have been taught that the responsible position to take for an educated professional is to “believe” in man made climate change. It is about social conditioning, not about science.

No, I do not run with the herd. My position has been consistently skeptical. Furthermore, we’re not going to stop the big emitters. (So I agree the windmills of the UK are nonsensical.)
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June 24, 2013 8:45pm
Judith

Kea (5,438) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
————————————

Well its a sign of a very sick society to me. Yes, we can point fingers at who we think are responsible, but the fact is, no matter what we do, there will always be people that prey on the vulnerable. The best way to stop it, is make sure our vulnerable are protected.

We walk our children to and from school so nothing bad happens to them, but we leave our very elderly mothers to spend their nights alone. What message does that give about caring?

Good on you for looking after your neighbours – we need more of that sort of thing~
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June 24, 2013 8:48pm
Kea

Dennis Horne, so you took all this time to agree with me then 😉
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June 24, 2013 8:50pm
Pete George

Every attempt is made to discredit and professionally destroy any scientist who speaks out against the theory.

That’s obvious nonsense. You won’t be able to get anywhere near proving that, because you don’t have evidence, and you’re wrong.
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June 24, 2013 8:55pm
Dennis Horne

@Kea. I am sorry you had to wait so long for so little reassurance. 🙂
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June 24, 2013 9:07pm
Dennis Horne

Melanie Reid. What the betting the big break for Bain will be just wind? 🙂 🙂 🙂
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June 24, 2013 9:10pm
Rowan

Muggins @ 5.49
How many times have you asked this question old bean? You have no proof of again (surprise, surprise). Bain was examined by Dr Pryde, there were no scratches found. So again no scratches on the chest so regardless of what the prison guard ‘suddenly remembered’ seeing after 15 years.
Lets just see whats more likely
(1) Bain was examined and no scratches were found or
(2) Dr Pryde fraudulently completed his form signed it of having not completed the medical examination and all the police present conspired to cover it up and keep the evidence from 2 trials.
Prydes evidence is still available maybe you should actually read it before stating what it ‘doesn’t’ state
Your argument again is not based on evidence but you knew that already didn’t you.

Maybe you could tell Denise Laney that she didn’t see David at 6.45
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June 24, 2013 9:32pm
KevinH

Today Auckland experienced one of those coolish but fine winter days, a break between the constant rain and storms that this country experiences at this time of the year.
For my enjoyment I spent the day at Auckland Zoo with 50 children under five, accompanied by their mothers or fathers, and marvelled at the dedication and commitment exhibited by the Zoo staff in providing a facility that families could enjoy.
The children were equally fascinated and at times bored and bewildered and I contemplated on where they will be heading as the future unfolds.
Will they worry about global warming?, will they get to the bottom of who the Bain family killer was? and will they worry about the cultural diversity and it’s implications for New Zealand in fifty years time. Probably not. They will face new challenges, have a different set of priorities and will consign the comments on this thread to the dustbin of history.
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June 24, 2013 9:38pm
Left Right and Centre

Judith 12:54 pm And I thought that fairy dust was the result of two homos redlining so hard on their wedding night that it creates a floor of skin flakes akin to a sawmill.
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June 24, 2013 9:53pm
Kea

@Kea. I am sorry you had to wait so long for so little reassurance.

Don’t be Dennis. I did not go to no fancy university and ain’t got no book smarts, but I am patient and persistent as herpes 😉
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June 24, 2013 9:59pm
Kea

Now the Baininites are back the folk will be begging for a good old fashioned AGW debate 🙂
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June 24, 2013 10:02pm
UglyTruth

Container Ship Carrying Weapons for Syrian Rebels Splits in Half/Sinks

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/06/container-ship-carrying-weapons-for-syrian-rebels-splits-in-halfsinks-2689692.html
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June 24, 2013 10:05pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 8:37 pm Picking on the old and weak… well… it’s like a nature doco… the lionesses and the gazelles….. you target easy prey. It’s…. logical Captain. The path of least resistence. They’re safety conscious.. got to give them that. Looking after themselves. Saving the taxpayer money… hell of an ACC cost if they get their arse kicked.
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June 24, 2013 10:06pm
Left Right and Centre

Dennis Horne 9:10 pm So… Mel’s going to break wind ya reckon?
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June 24, 2013 10:08pm
Left Right and Centre

joana 5:40 pm

Susan Devoy has proven that she is very much a political , social and intellectual lightweight.

Yeah… probably. So.. bigger picture is what… cushy high salary position as a thank you for being a ‘national icon’?
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June 24, 2013 10:11pm
Left Right and Centre

Cannabis is legal in NZ.

Here’s the line… legal/ illegal. Here’s cannabis shaking hands with the fucking line to the right of it.

Cops: What’s this then? Bit of weed? Well… we’re going to warn you this time. So… people are caught with the dope on them… and…. nothing. Warning? That’s taking the utter piss mate.

You don’t get no warning for speeding (not often)… but cannibas? Yeah, sure…. personal use only? Far out mate…. go for it. What are we going to do? You have fun now… sorry to disturb you sir…

Pathetic joke!!
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June 24, 2013 10:25pm
laworder

Griff points out that Spencer has a belief in god that says man can not change the climate.

http://www.cornwallalliance.org/about/cornwall-alliance-advisory-board/
He is responsible for this .

“Earth and its ecosystems – created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence – are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting”

Spencer on creation

in the book The Evolution Crisis, Spencer wrote, “I finally became convinced that the theory of creation actually had a much better scientific basis than the theory of evolution, for the creation model was actually better able to explain the physical and biological complexity in the world.

Religion Right Now is a facet Mr Roy Spencer that by his own admission makes his pronouncements on science of any sort unscientific.

Frankly he does sound like a bit of a loon going by that.
However that does not invalidate the graph on his site
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png

The only thing that I can see that would invalidate that graph is if the observations data was in some way seriously flawed, and it appears not to be inconsistent with other observations datasets I have seen

I will be the first to admit that this isnt an area of expertise for me, and I have not formed firm conclusions one way or the other as yet – as Dennis Horne has correctly pointed out, climatology is very complex, more so than criminology in my view 🙂

Regards
Peter J
see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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June 25, 2013 12:49am
laworder

Judith wrote

The answer is not, and never will be the death penalty. You start imposing a punishment like that, and they will make sure the elderly they rob do not live through the experience to identify them.

What is needed is for society to pull its head in and start respecting the elderly instead of treating them like some sort of disposable nuisance. Often the only time people have anything nice to say about the elderly is at Anzac day, or when something bad happens to them.

Teach our young to have respect for them and stop herding them like old cattle into homes where they are out of sight and out of mind. Let them live with the families they love – (and solve the housing crisis at the same time).

Families used to live together, three or more generations, everyone caring for the elderly and the young, in doing so the younger people learned to respect. The parents could work, and the elderly minded the younger generation – taught them the skills, manners and from their experience. Society and people were a whole lot nicer then – and elderly never got bashed.

I dont know if the death penalty is really the answer or not, I suspect not, but also I do not think that realistically there is any chance of it being reinstated, so it is not really a contender.

As it happens all the elderly that were attacked by the subhuman thing recently were not in resthomes, but living independently in their own homes, a point I notice that you did pick up on in later posts. They would have been safer in resthomes 🙁

I dont know if living with their families is a workable or realistic solution in most cases these days either, what with offspring going overseas to work/live or to other parts of the country. The elderly do also often want to maintain some independence and may not want to live with their family.

However fortunately there is another solution – secure retirement complexes. This is the option my Mum chose for herself when my Dad passed away a few years back leaving her in a house by herself in her 70’s. My family were going to suggest this option to her, but when we approached her to suggest it we found she had already started the process herself, put a deposit on a unit etc. There are increasing numbers of these secure complexes being built all around NZ now, and rest homes of the type you seem to have in mind (I can remember these from the 70’s) are a dying breed as far as I am aware.

Unfortunately making sure the elderly are safe isnt really going to solve the issues that arise as a result of things like Murphy being on the loose. They will merely find other vulnerable targets, The real solution is to isolate them from society as early as possible – had Three Strikes been either introduced earlier or preferably made retrospective, it would have acheived this. Murphy and those like him are psychopaths, and the solution is not to lock up our elderly or other vulnerable people, but to lock up psychopaths and recognise that they are different from proper people and not treatable.

Regards
Peter J
see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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June 25, 2013 1:24am
Manolo

Dynastic dreams: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10139278/Hillary-Clinton-just-paved-the-way-for-Chelseas-presidential-campaign.html
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June 25, 2013 6:33am
Griff

Kea
Mr Spencer has a religious belief system that say to him god is in charge of the climate
That is his problem
If he admits his faith distorts his view his views on science are invalid. In New Zealand we may think religious views like his are nuts. In the states he is one of millions of god stuck whackos and his views on creation are almost normal.
In this as in many other cases Spencer is using his knowledge of climate science to distort the data in support of his religion.
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June 25, 2013 7:11am
bushlawyer

To Harriet

However, it was not New Zealand’s Appeal Courts or even the Privy Council that saved Arthur Thomas. It was a scientist, a journalist, an internationally acclaimed author and a royal commission that provoked a royal pardon.
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June 25, 2013 9:30am
Dennis Horne

@Kea. My position has been skeptical, as I said earlier, but I am open to persuasion. Are you? Sounds like you’re in a deep trench to me.

I can see the problems with the measurement and interpreting the data. The only simple facts are CO2 is a greenhouse gas and we have added a great deal to the atmosphere. Strangely, it is the cold that has my attention, because that suggests some fundamental change in the pattern of energy transfer.

@laworder. It seems Spencer is picking data that suit his purpose. The graph you presented shows a very restricted latitude band.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png
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June 25, 2013 10:24am

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