General Debate 11 September 2013

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Harriet

In a speech to his troops General Patton said:

“There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again.
You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you won’t have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, “Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.” No Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, “Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-God dammed Bastard named Georgie Patton! ”

We today could tell our grandchildren that we shoveled liberal “stuff” because we were so afraid of being called racists, religious bigots & homophobes, or we can tell them that we fought the good fight to take back our country. It’s your choice.

War never ends for Patriots until you are dead. Then your children fight on. So we must all fight and teach the next generation about the battle for liberty.

NZ is having her liberty stolen by a modern ruling class and its essentially fascist vision of “everything for the state, nothing outside the state, nothing above the state.” That is why it is so important to defeat them and humiliate them, and get their hardest-hit followers — the young, the women, and the minorities — to desert the liberal colors.

The way things are going, it looks like conservatives won’t have to do much to make this happen, because the aspiring liberal generals from Labour are prepared to fight with weapons from the last war : their discredited Keynesianism and big government meltdowns. And they will get the same disastrous results as they did a generation ago. 😎

Discredit them utterly, as that’s all it takes. 😎

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/09/discredit_liberalism_utterly.html
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September 11, 2013 8:00am
Keeping Stock

The #Labour’sGotTalent tour is over, and Air New Zealand’s revenues will take a hit. But at last one of the contenders has told the truth about Labour’s fitness for office:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/quote-of-day-11-september-2013.html

Shane Jones’ comment will not be popular, but that probably is symptomatic of why Labour is in the position that it finds itself.
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September 11, 2013 8:10am
Redbaiter

Great post Harriet.

The Conservative wants to see government dis-empowered and the individual liberated. The Progressive wants to use government to regulate the individual and empower the state.

The Progressives have been winning for far too long.
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September 11, 2013 8:12am
Ian McK

See obese German criminal getting top publicity in the Herald . . . he is now going NZ taxpayers for 6 million. Why don’t we tell US to come and pay it, and take the slug away; if it’s not the Herald, then its Fairfax, giving this criminal publicity and frankly, it is becoming a bore.
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September 11, 2013 8:16am
wreck1080

The kiwis seem to often lose the starts. Again, today.
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September 11, 2013 8:17am
peterwn

See:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9149275/Bridgecorp-investors-should-share-blame-Roest

“Bridgecorp investors should share blame – Roest”

This turkey is away with the fairies.

“You can’t offload your responsibility to other people.” Justice O’Regan said.

Appeal Court is still hearing case, but I think it is a safe bet that he will be serving most if not all his sentence.
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September 11, 2013 8:24am
Redbaiter

It is not Kim Dotcom’s fault, it is the National Governments fault for sucking up to Hollywood, Barack Obama and their FBI apparachiks. I defend anyone’s individual rights and I am not picky over their weight or where they were born. Give him his money and be thankful it is not a hundred million more.

Dotcom’s lawyers, Paul Davison, QC, and William Akel, from Simpson Grierson, described a chain of evidence taken from court actions since the raid. Among the actions was a finding at the High Court that the search warrant used for the raid was unlawful and the raid illegal. The claim accused police of “unnecessary force and aggressive intimidatory tactics” by using armed anti-terrorist police in an airborne assault on the north Auckland mansion.

The claim highlighted doors being kicked in and Dotcom’s wife Mona, pregnant with twins at the time, being kept forcibly from her three young children.

It also targets the GCSB in the legal action for illegal spying – and then attempting to legally cover it up.

Prime Minister John Key was forced to apologise last September after Dotcom’s legal team told the High Court it was illegal by law for the GCSB to spy on New Zealand residents. Dotcom and co-defendant Bram van der Kolk were residents and protected by law at the time.
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September 11, 2013 8:26am
nickb

While I was eating breakfast this morning, a few thoughts came over me.

Firstly, notwithstanding my frequent digs at National, one thing that can be said is that they are full of very competent people, often from the private sector with a wealth of experience. This translates into generally very competent Cabinet Ministers who manage their portfolios well.

Then I started thinking about what a Labour cabinet would look like…..and I began to sweat and shake uncontrollably. Russell Norman as Minister of Finance? Jacinda Ardern as Minister of Education? Darien Fenton as Minister for Industrial Relations? There is simply no depth there at all. Even the people such as Shane Jones and David Parker who could reasonably be labelled some of the only competent people in the party have concerns over their work ethic and even greater concerns about their general ethics – c.f. porn and Bill Liu scandals on the one hand and filing false company documents on the other hand.

So what does Labour do? Do they have to give Cabinet seats to the old guard like Mallard, King, and Goff? People who if they had any self-awareness and integrity would have resigned in 2008 but hang on to their perks and salary in the well-founded fears they are unemployable in the private sector? If they do that will it harm Labour given they need to be rejuvenating?

It is probably for this last reason that I support silent T. Labour must clean out its corrupt and vile deadwood left over from Helengrad.
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September 11, 2013 8:34am
nickb

I wouldn’t feel so good looking over the bar and seeing Paul Davidson and Willy Akel on the other side…. methinks the Crown are heading for a spanking here (especially if they get to the Supreme Court)
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September 11, 2013 8:36am
Colville

A spanking !.. 5 ahead 🙂
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September 11, 2013 8:40am
flipper

But to win by 1.05mins is fine by me
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September 11, 2013 8:40am
travellerev

And for those of you who still think that we have a democracy and that Cunliffe is going to make a flying fuck of difference if he ever makes it to Prime Minister or that John Key came here to save Kiwi’s here is a hint of why they are not is not.

9/11 changed the world for good. It was the day the global coup took place and yes that includes the government of NZ. Watch this 5 hour new film from film director Massimo Mazzuccoto learn more on what took place on the day and why it should matter to you today.
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September 11, 2013 8:44am
gravedodger

@ wreck 1080 08 17, maybe ETNZ having only the one boat while Larry has a spare ready to go in 10 minutes gives an impetus for a conservative approach?

Winning by over a minute gives me confidence.
Dalton back on board after the one loss, what does that say.
Old bastard on a grinder at 56 impressive eh.
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September 11, 2013 8:45am
Steve (North Shore)

A win is a win is a win -1 / +4
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September 11, 2013 8:45am
Redbaiter

Jack booted thugs and their bosses are going to get what they have had coming for a long time-

It accused GCSB boss Ian Fletcher of acting unlawfully by giving “incomplete” and “misleading” information to Mr English, who in Mr Key’s absence signed a once-in-a-decade certificate legally ordering the GCSB’s involvement to be kept obscured.

The certificate turned out to be worthless when the illegality was raised.

The claim specifies sums ranging from $1 million to $50,000 for a range of points. An additional case is made for the cost of repairing damage, including kicking in doors and ruining expensive computer systems, caused by police in the raid.

Just disgraceful in a free country.
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September 11, 2013 8:45am
wreck1080

Not that Tony Marryatt ever needs another job, thanks to ratepayers of Hamilton and Christchurch, but,I wonder which dopey council will hire him next?
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September 11, 2013 8:47am
Redbaiter

I hope Nasska and Thedavincimode can keep their hands out of each others pants today.

There’s a time and place for that kind of stuff boys and it certainly ain’t on GD.
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September 11, 2013 8:48am
Judith

Can someone explain to me, as there have been five races out of 10, that leaves five to go – so even if Oracle win all five, that still makes us equal, but if we win one more, we have to be the winners? Or is that not right – can someone please explain because I don’t know how these things work?
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September 11, 2013 8:50am
Paulus

Putin must be laughing all over his face – which he does not usually do.

He has thoroughly humiliated Obama and the US, aided I suspect by the Saudi Prince of Darkness, Bandar bin Sultan, who controls the Middle East.

What will Obama do now ?
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September 11, 2013 8:58am
OneTrack

Nick – the problem is,many kiwis won’t do what you just did until after the election.

You also didn’t place meteria or hone or sue bradford or john minto or winston. also, what does a labour caucus thatMUST be fifty percent woman look like. we may find out.
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September 11, 2013 9:00am
flipper

Judith…
It is a best of 17 series.. NZ has to win 9. Oracle has to win 11. (9 + 2 penalties)
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September 11, 2013 9:06am
Yvette

when the man tipped to lead the party is reported to have the support of only 10 Labour MP’s

So much for a new selection system that is fattily flawed.
Labour is fucked.
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September 11, 2013 9:07am
Colville

Judith /flipper.

Its first to 9. So max of 19 races. (as Oracle need to win 11 to get 9 points)
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September 11, 2013 9:09am
Colville

Race postponed. Oracle running scared! hahhahahhahah

Oracle has used its postponment card that is meant to be used for damage. Only its their ego that is damaged. 🙂
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September 11, 2013 9:10am
gravedodger

Judith it is first team to 9 wins so may need 17 races. Then Oracle was penalised two points for cheating in AC 45s earlier in the year, by an international jury with no right of appeal, meaning they started the finals negative two. They would need to win 11 races to get to the 9 wins.
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September 11, 2013 9:13am
Harriet

If you allowed your child to spend a decade at the local Labour branch office, would you then expect him to be educated and work ready?

Then why would you expect positive results after having sent him to a Union run school for 12 yrs? 😎
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September 11, 2013 9:16am
liarbors a joke

more crap reporting from stuff…” girl”..”.teenage”…

The ” girl ” is 20 years old..
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September 11, 2013 9:16am
gravedodger

Oracle Team USA have played a wild card to avoid another race in the conditions that saw them beaten by over a minute.

Barker has gone home for the day
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September 11, 2013 9:19am
Steve (North Shore)

Oracle have used their ‘Get out of Jail ‘ Card
Uma Rapiti, uma Rapiti
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September 11, 2013 9:19am
Graeme Edgeler

Happy Birthday DPF!

[DPF: Thanks]
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September 11, 2013 9:23am
liarbors a joke

my bad..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9150852/Badly-injured-girl-found-in-street
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September 11, 2013 9:25am
eszett

I’ll trust Graeme’s inside knowledge and join in:

Happy Birthday, David!
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September 11, 2013 9:33am
hj

“To favor one’s own over others is viewed as a base chauvinism. Therefore, the inconsistency of supporting mass immigration while at the same time claiming a concern for the working poor disappears if one defines the working poor in international terms, rather than in chauvinistic, national ones. Put in other terms, a true Marxist should show a concern for all the struggling masses of mankind; to be more concerned for your own working classes is a retrograde nationalism, best eschewed. This change of focus explains, in large measure, the left’s abandonment of the workingman and joining with corporate interests on the issue of immigration. It is, of course, also the case that the parties of the left increase their power by importing third-world immigrants who overwhelmingly become constituents of those parties. The net result is that people who oppose massive immigration have no place to turn for support on either the right or the left of the political spectrum

The Perils of Diversity(Book Review)
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=9928
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September 11, 2013 9:33am
Steve (North Shore)

Colville,
I believe there are only 17 races. First to +9 wins.
However, if Oracle was to win 9 races that would put them on +7; leaving 8 races. If NZ win those 8 it means neither team gets to +9 so the Cup stays with the holder.
That is not going to happen, but technicaly it could.

I originaly thought it was first to 9 wins, but it is first to +9 on the board
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September 11, 2013 9:35am
Graeme Edgeler

I’ll trust Graeme’s inside knowledge and join in:

September 11 – it’s an easy one to remember!
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September 11, 2013 9:41am
Harriet

Happy Birthday DPF.

And remember to thank your mum for it! 😎
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September 11, 2013 9:46am
hj

I’ve never experienced such strong winds as we had last night in Chch.
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September 11, 2013 9:48am
wat dabney

“ The Conservative wants to see government dis-empowered and the individual liberated. ”

Technically the Conservative want to keep things as they are.

Perhaps you’re thinking of (classical) Liberals, or Libertarians?
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September 11, 2013 9:54am
Redbaiter

Libertarians have only existed since Ayn Rand started writing books. They therefore have no historical reference points in matters of liberty and its anchor points like the Magna Carta or the American Constitution. Just Johnny come lately pretenders confused and ignorant.
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September 11, 2013 10:00am
liarbors a joke

“I’ve never experienced such strong winds as we had last night in Chch.”

I found a trampoline on my outside grass verge this morning..dont know where it blew in from..but if anyone from the Merivale area is missing a newish trampoline, let me know.
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September 11, 2013 10:00am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

It’s that special day again that only comes once a year. So on this September 11th lets all wish President Bashar Hafez al-Assad a happy birthday. Forty eight today.
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September 11, 2013 10:08am
Scott Chris

Technically the Conservative want to keep things as they are.

Maybe, but the impression I get from a lot of conservatives is that they long for a bygone era that only ever existed in 1950’s American television.
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September 11, 2013 10:12am
Weihana

Harriet (2,407) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 8:00 am

War never ends for Patriots until you are dead. Then your children fight on. So we must all fight and teach the next generation about the battle for liberty.

How nauseating.

NZ is having her liberty stolen by a modern ruling class and its essentially fascist vision

Translation: gays are having bum sex and I don’t like it!
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September 11, 2013 10:13am
Griff

😆 redddy
The historic paradigm shifts you attempt to support conservatism with.
Are points of change wrestle from the establishment by progressives.

Liberal thinkers unconstrained by the straight jacket of Conservative’s we have always done it this way, wrote the documents that are the Magna Carter and the Constitution of the USA.
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September 11, 2013 10:15am
James Stephenson

Technically the Conservative want to keep things as they are. Perhaps you’re thinking of (classical) Liberals, or Libertarians

“Conservative” and “Liberal” really don’t mean the same things in Europe and America.

Libertarians have only existed since Ayn Rand started writing books. They therefore have no historical reference points in matters of liberty and its anchor points like the Magna Carta or the American Constitution.

That’s more than a little bit overstated isn’t it? Libertarian thought goes back to John Locke, who was also a key influence on the framing of the US constitution.

“Libertarian” does not mean exactly the same thing as “Ayn Rand fanboi”
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September 11, 2013 10:16am
Redbaiter

In 1900 the police in England and Wales recorded fewer than three crimes for every 1000 people. By the 1980s it was fifty for every thousand.
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September 11, 2013 10:17am
Scott Chris

Here ya go laj:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPKb9z4l7eM
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September 11, 2013 10:17am
thedavincimode

I hope Nasska and Thedavincimode can keep their hands out of each others pants today.

There’s a time and place for that kind of stuff boys and it certainly ain’t on GD.

Why Russell. Where did that come from? Is rent payable on that space we’re occupying in your head? BTW, that’s a lower case “t” for “thedavincimode”.
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September 11, 2013 10:18am
Redbaiter

“Libertarian” does not mean exactly the same thing as “Ayn Rand fanboi”

It does actually.

“Atlas Shrugged” is the Libertarian’s Bible and Ayn Rand is their God.

If you doubt this have a look at the blog “Not PC” some time.
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September 11, 2013 10:19am
Redbaiter

“Is rent payable on that space we’re occupying in your head?”

Merely trying to save GD from the excesses of your self infatuation and your insane obsession with Redbaiter. I noticed yesterday’s GD was soaked by it. Just selfish pea brained arseholes. And given your premium choice of subject, it looks like you’re about to do it again today. I have posted on many things today. You’re back as usual with your one and only obsession.
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September 11, 2013 10:24am
wikiriwhis business

R.I.P. To thousands who lost their lives on 9/11 twelve years ago. And R.I.P. To the millions who are to this day still losing their lives because of the lie that is 9/11. Yes sheep, a big fat LIE!! Don’t believe me? Look up BUILDING 7 and explain how buildings just fall down randomly like this one on 9/11. Did you even know a third building came down on that same day?

Jet fuel cannot melt structural steel.

Never has, never will.

The official 9/11 story which has
been used to destroy the US
…Homeland Security, Iraq
War, War on Terror, NSA etc…
is based on a lie.

Video:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/20223.html
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September 11, 2013 10:25am
Weihana

Redbaiter (4,674) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 10:19 am

“Libertarian” does not mean exactly the same thing as “Ayn Rand fanboi”

It does actually.

Nah, a true fanboi would refer to themselves as an “Objectivist” and someone who calls themselves a libertarian may just mean that they want to smoke weed.

Rand despised the “libertarians” as they weren’t always adhering to her commandments.
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September 11, 2013 10:25am
Redbaiter

John Locke knew nothing of any such animal as a Libertarian.
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September 11, 2013 10:26am
wikiriwhis business

General Smedley Butler U.S Marine corps.

Probably one of the most powerful paragraphs in modern history

I spent 33 years and 4 months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the marine corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from second lieutenant to major General. And during that period, I spent my time being a high class muscle-man for big business, for wall street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the national city bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen central American republics for the benefits of wall street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of the brown brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that standard oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could’ve given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts, I operated on three continents.
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September 11, 2013 10:26am
Redbaiter

You’re right Weihana, but its a fine distinction not necessary in deciding whether “Libertarians” were around during the English Civil War or the American Revolution. It is idiocy to proclaim they were.
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September 11, 2013 10:30am
wikiriwhis business

“In 1900 the police in England and Wales recorded fewer than three crimes for every 1000 people. By the 1980s it was fifty for every thousand.”

That was due to the huge Christian Welsh revival of the era.
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September 11, 2013 10:32am
James Stephenson

You’re right Weihana, but its a fine distinction not necessary in deciding whether “Libertarians” were around during the English Civil War or the American Revolution. It is idiocy to proclaim they were.

You’d have struggled to find anyone calling themselves a “Conservative” either.
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September 11, 2013 10:35am
thedavincimode

Sorry Russell, I can’t play right now. I have to do something more important (there, you can use that little joke you did the other day again!)

I am disappointed that you started without me though. 🙁 nasska and I hadn’t even turned up!
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September 11, 2013 10:36am
Redbaiter

You need to read a bit Jimmy, that is another example of hair raising ignorance and so wrong it borders on idiocy.
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September 11, 2013 10:37am
Redbaiter

“nasska and I hadn’t even turned up!”

You have now though Kevin, and as I predicted, its already the same old obsessive shit as you post here every day.
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September 11, 2013 10:39am
Judith

@ Flipper, Colville and Gravedoger

Thanks for the explanations, that makes a bit more sense.

GO NZ!!
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September 11, 2013 10:40am
Griff

Redbaiter (4,679) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 8:48 am

I hope Nasska and Thedavincimode can keep their hands out of each others pants today.

There’s a time and place for that kind of stuff boys and it certainly ain’t on GD.

First sentence. a homosexual slur directed at two commentators from out of the ~~True~~ blue.

Second sentence. an attempt to proscribe the comments on a liberal blog by a conservative authoritarian who refuses to allow any dissent on his own blog.
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September 11, 2013 10:47am
James Stephenson

so wrong it borders on idiocy.

Conservative ideas may have been around, but anyone thinking along those lines would have almost certainly called themselves a Tory, or a Whig or maybe in the US a Patriot.
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September 11, 2013 10:47am
Fletch

Help Obama start World War III with Kickstarter 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-sdO6pwVHQ
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September 11, 2013 10:54am
wikiriwhis business

Don’t think this interviewer grasps the reality of the situation as an Irish finance analyst explains where and who the real problems come from in very strong fashion

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151554913397745&set=vb.740737744&type=2&theater
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September 11, 2013 10:58am
Redbaiter

“Tory”

Checked out the etymology of that word Jimmie?

As a political tradition, conservatism traces to Edmund Burke’s opposition to the French Revolution (1790).
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September 11, 2013 11:04am
wikiriwhis business

This short video highlights the harsh Truth of U.S. foreign policy and the military industrial complex.

POWERFUL speech on Military Industrial Complex (Graphic Content)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=630831663597581
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September 11, 2013 11:10am
James Stephenson

Yes Red, it derives from the Irish for “Outlaw” – what’s your point?

As a political tradition, conservatism traces to…

Which is my point exactly. These are evolving political traditions, so if you’re going to call yourself “Libertarian” John Locke is (or should be) your starting point.
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September 11, 2013 11:14am
Weihana

Redbaiter (4,679) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 10:30 am

You’re right Weihana, but its a fine distinction not necessary in deciding whether “Libertarians” were around during the English Civil War or the American Revolution. It is idiocy to proclaim they were.

No they weren’t I suppose. On the other hand Ayn Rand immigrated to the US from Soviet Russia which inspired her opposition to “collectivism”. Moreover, although she only liked to cite one philosopher as contributing to her beliefs, she in fact used ideas from all over the place including the American constitution. Similarly, the American constitution was not born in a vacuum. It also inherited ideas and it did not remain static since its inception.

Ideas evolve over time, taking inspiration from a wide variety of sources. Libertarianism (or Ayn Randism) is no exception. It’s not wrong because it’s relatively new, it’s wrong because it’s an overly simplistic romanticization of individualism divorced from reality.
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September 11, 2013 11:16am
nickb

More of the venal tail wagging the dog:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11123005

If there was ever an argument for the abolishing of MMP, it has to be the self-serving and inane behaviour of Peter Dunne. Everything he does is to either increase his public profile, get himself in the media, or increase his chances of baubles.

Please retire imemdiately
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September 11, 2013 11:18am
Redbaiter

No, because there was no such word. “Conservative” doesn’t have that problem. Aside from the fact that there is nothing tying Ayn Rand to veteran advocates of liberty. Her experience related to the Russian revolution, and her books were written from that perspective.

(edit- as I now see, a point Weihana has referenced above)
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September 11, 2013 11:19am
Harriet

Weihana#

“…………..NZ is having her liberty stolen by a modern ruling class and its essentially fascist vision of “everything for the state, nothing outside the state, nothing above the state.”

Translation: gays are having bum sex and I don’t like it!……………….”

The question of loyalty in NZ is really quite different from that commonly framed Weihana.

It is like the question of on whose side God is. God is on God’s side. It is we who must choose sides, not he!

We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. Government is not. Therefore any meaningful profession of loyalty must be from the people to God, and then to country. The Government owes its loyalty to those with the God-given unalienable rights from which it arose, and hence to their God and to their country.

Surely we see the deleterious effects of misplaced government loyalty on our country. Neo-Nero hesitates while the country burns. The prophets of Baal cry out louder, ever louder, to delude the masses, until at last they are consumed by the fire descending to clear the altars of NZ of their vile offerings.

Afterall, and undeniable, liberal government is now out to seek it’s loyalty and sustenance from the legally stoned!

Yes, you are right: It’s your government that is now also buggered Weihana, and of course I don’t like it! 😎
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September 11, 2013 11:29am
Redbaiter

“the Magna Carter” (sic)

Hahah.. this ignorant boofhead is here lecturing others on the history of liberty.
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September 11, 2013 11:39am
Ed Snack

Wikirihis business, please learn just a little before diving deep into the conspiracy scenarios. You don’t need to melt iron structural members to cause a collapse, just heat them to the point where there’s a drastic reduction in strength. And that temperature is much more easily reached.

Just for interest, that’s one reason why in NZ, many buildings like school halls that have a largish span, use laminated wooden beams rather than steel. In a fire the wood burns (relatively slowly) but retains structural strength until it is essentially burnt through, so safer. And in a 1 storey building weight is not particularly an issue. Probably not actually possible, but if the WTC had used laminated wood instead of steel it would not have collapsed the same, but it still would have come down when the beans burnt through.

The other thing you forget is that those airliners were also full of the Chem-trail liquid that they use to spray as they fly, and who knows exactly what that is and what temperature THAT burns at. (HT XKCD)
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September 11, 2013 11:41am
Fletch

The new iPhone 5C, made from “the veal of plastics” 😛

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAGtk2x4BSQ
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September 11, 2013 11:47am
Redbaiter

The 15 most conservative and 15 most liberal cities are listed below, along with their violent crime rates.

The 15 most liberal cities in the US:

– Detroit, Michigan – 24 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Gary, Indiana – 15 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Berkeley, California – 5 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Washington, DC – 13 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Oakland, California – 16 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Inglewood, California – 8 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Newark, New Jersey – 11 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Cambridge, Massachusetts – 5 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– San Francisco, California – 7 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Flint, Michigan – 24 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Cleveland, Ohio – 14 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Hartford, Connecticut – 13 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Paterson, New Jersey – 11 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Baltimore, Maryland – 15 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– New Haven, Connecticut – 15 violent crimes/1,000 residents

The national average is four violent crimes/1,000 residents. Every one of the 15 most liberal cities in the US has a higher violent crime rate than the national average. Twelve of the 15 have a violent crime rate that is at least double the national average. Two of them have a violent crime rate that is six times the national average.

The 15 most conservative cities in the US:

– Provo, Utah – 2 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Lubbock, Texas – 9 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Abilene, Texas – 5 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Hialeah, Florida – 4 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Plano, Texas – 2 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Colorado Springs, Colorado – 5 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Gilbert, Arizona – 1 violent crime/1,000 residents
– Bakersfield, California – 6 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Lafayette, Louisiana – 8 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Orange, California – 1 violent crime/1,000 residents
– Escondido, California – 4 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Allentown, Pennsylvania – 6 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Mesa, Arizona – 4 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Arlington, Texas – 5 violent crimes/1,000 residents
– Peoria, Arizona – 2 violent crimes/1,000 residents

Again, let’s note that the national average is four violent crimes per 1,000 residents. You’ll notice that eight of the 15 most conservative cities have violent crime rates at or below the national average. Only two of the 15 have violent crime rates that are twice as high as the national average. The most dangerous conservative city (Lubbock, Texas) is safer than all but four of the liberal cities.

http://www.examiner.com/article/crime-rates-liberal-cities-shockingly-higher-than-conservative-cities
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September 11, 2013 11:49am
liarbors a joke

“Here ya go laj:”

all good…but the one outside my house is square shape !
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September 11, 2013 11:54am
wikiriwhis business

CONFIRMED! McCain Posed with Known Terrorists in Syria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoZKfkqlT3I
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September 11, 2013 11:59am
hj

Yes, Amsterdam Really Did Banish an Entire Family to a Shipping Container ‘Scum Village’
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/09/can-amsterdam-really-banish-entire-families-shipping-container-scum-village/6824/#disqus_thread
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September 11, 2013 12:05pm
wikiriwhis business

Global warming computer models collapse
http://www.infowars.com/global-warming-computer-models-collapse/

Arctic ice sheets rapidly expand as planet plunges into global cooling.
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September 11, 2013 12:09pm
Lance

Historical murder rates… the facts are interesting;

http://janneinosaka.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/history-of-violence.html

http://marginalrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Violence-Stylized-2.png
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September 11, 2013 12:15pm
Weihana

Harriet (2,409) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 11:29 am

Therefore any meaningful profession of loyalty must be from the people to God, and then to country. The Government owes its loyalty to those with the God-given unalienable rights from which it arose, and hence to their God…

God this, God that, blah blah blah.

Didn’t realize I was in Sunday School.
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September 11, 2013 12:19pm
nickb

Is wikiriwhi philu after taking some grammar courses and acid?
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September 11, 2013 12:30pm
nickb

Red, I was looking at some graphic the other day of murders in Baltimore. There is something like 350 already this year in a city only about one and a half times the size of the greater Auckland area.

And Michigan….do not want.
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September 11, 2013 12:32pm
Harriet

“……God this, God that, blah blah blah……..Didn’t realize I was in Sunday School……”

Jones this. Robertson that. Cuncliffe blah blah blah.

Didn’t realize I was at the jobs board in a Winz office. 😎
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September 11, 2013 12:35pm
Ryan Sproull

Haha, Harriet! That was actually pretty funny!
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September 11, 2013 12:36pm
Weihana

I suggest to people if they really want the government to give loyalty to “God” they take their stupid ass to the Mid East where people actually give a shit about such things. Then come back and lecture peaceful secular western nations about the “deleterious effects” of a government not paying homage to your imaginary friend.
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September 11, 2013 12:41pm
Weihana

Harriet (2,411) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

“……God this, God that, blah blah blah……..Didn’t realize I was in Sunday School……”

Jones this. Robertson that. Cuncliffe blah blah blah.

Didn’t realize I was at the jobs board in a Winz office.

I’m pretty confident you’ve mentioned them more than I.
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September 11, 2013 12:42pm
Fletch

Then come back and lecture peaceful secular western nations about the “deleterious effects” of a government not paying homage to your imaginary friend.

Weihana, Western nations are not secular, although some wish they were.
Most people on Earth are religious.

According to the C.I.A World Factbook site, 88.54% of the world (6.2 billion) is religious in some way – Christian 33.35% (of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha’i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%.

Only 9.42% are non-religious and 2.04% are atheist.
If you’re not religious, you’re in a minority.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html

America and England (just two for example) were founded on Judeo-Christian principles. To say they weren’t just ignores the facts. Christianity has done more good in the world than not.
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September 11, 2013 12:49pm
wikiriwhis business

New Zealand Economy Keeps on Truckin’

In New Zealand, however, it pays to keep your eyes on the road when making predictions about the economy’s future. That’s because around 70% of freight in the South Pacific nation – whether it’s fridges, fruit or sheep – is moved by road rather than rail or air.

The ANZ Truckometer, compiled by Australia & New Zealand Banking GroupANZ.AU +0.66%, has proved so accurate using traffic flows to predict the economic situation as much as six months ahead that New Zealand’s central bank watches it when deciding interest rates.

New Zealand’s economy often moves in tandem with that of its neighbor, Australia. But lately New Zealand’s prospects are looking better, fueled by dairy exports and the rebuilding of Christchurch after a major earthquake, while Australia’s economy slows as its decade-long commodities boom comes to an end.

Both economies are set to grow around 2.5% this year but New Zealand’s outlook is brighter, with falling unemployment and greater potential for growth next year, economists say.

The truckies are running NZ. No wonder they taxed so much !!!

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/09/10/new-zealand-economy-keeps-on-truckin/?mod=WSJBlog&mod=blogmod
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September 11, 2013 12:53pm
Weihana

Fletch (4,756) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

Weihana, Western nations are not secular, although some wish they were.
Most people on Earth are religious.

Irrelevant. Western governments are generally secular.
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September 11, 2013 12:56pm
Redbaiter

The orgies of violent attacks against strangers on the streets — in both England and the United States — are not necessarily just passing episodes. They should be wake-up calls, warning of the continuing degeneration of Western society. As British doctor and author Theodore Dalrymple said, long before these riots broke out, “the good are afraid of the bad and the bad are afraid of nothing.” Not only the trends over the years leading up to these riots but also the squeamish responses to them by officials — on both sides of the Atlantic — reveal the moral dry rot that has spread deep into Western societies.

Read more at

http://patriotupdate.com/articles/social-degeneration-ruining-america-and-the-west/#8OhZzrQe6Uw33LLX.99
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September 11, 2013 12:58pm
Weihana

Fletch (4,756) Says:
September 11th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

BTW, in case I wasn’t clear, I have no problem with people being religious. But when you start talking about government having loyalty to your myths and legends then I have a problem.
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September 11, 2013 12:58pm
Weihana

Obama to make case for Syria any minute now. Should be entertaining.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live
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September 11, 2013 12:59pm
Redbaiter

“I have to do something more important”

Restock the vaseline cupboard?
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September 11, 2013 1:02pm
Fletch

BTW, in case I wasn’t clear, I have no problem with people being religious. But when you start talking about government having loyalty to your myths and legends then I have a problem.

For what reason?
If Government hewed to Biblical principles like they used to, the world would be a much better, safer, less violent place.

If, in the end, God is “imaginary” as you say, those who are taught Biblical principles are still more ethical and moral (if they adhere to those principles).

What example can you give me that following the principles of the Bible is deleterious to a nation?
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September 11, 2013 1:03pm
mandk

Whikiriwhis business: ” “In 1900 the police in England and Wales recorded fewer than three crimes for every 1000 people. By the 1980s it was fifty for every thousand.”

That was due to the huge Christian Welsh revival of the era.”

Did you know that the Welsh religious revival was in the early years of the 20th century?
The increase in crime referred to was nothing to do with religious revival.
It was more probably due to the rise of moral relativism.
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September 11, 2013 1:06pm
Fletch

There is no significant example in history, before our time, of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion. ~ Will Durant
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September 11, 2013 1:06pm
Griff

Back in the England and Whales…

Go home and beat the living fuck out of both the wife and then the milkmaid.

Rape the wife repeatedly.

Not a crime in sight.

You could walk to your local drug dispenser and buy a healthy bottle of tincture of opium for a few pennies.

again not a crime.

You could fuck a prostitute She is the one who is the criminal by some ineffable logic.

Fletch we are a secular nation.
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September 11, 2013 1:12pm
wikiriwhis business

Max Keiser Report
Russia Today Declares 9/11 Was An Inside Job! The sad part is this will for the most part stay under the radar. Maybe in 30 years documents will be released from the CIA proving it was a false flag and the American people will say oh well thats in the past.
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September 11, 2013 1:17pm

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