General Debate 23 September 2016

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Yoza

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Remember when the Israeli secret police captured a charity worker and tortured him until they obtained a ‘confession’, well they’re at it again. This time the Israeli secret police, the Shin Bet, have captured a UN worker, based on the ‘evidence’ obtained during torture from the charity worker they nabbed in August.

Israel’s Showdown with UN over Immunity for Gazan Engineer

For UNDP, however, the main charge in Israel’s indictment remains unsubstantiated.
Israel’s indictment alleges that Hamas asked Bursh to divert rubble from destroyed homes for the construction of a port to be used (in the future) by Hamas’s military wing, the Izzadin al-Qassam Brigades.
On August 12, UNDP published a statement saying it had examined the facts related to statements contained in Mr. Al Bursh’s charge sheet,” and that “there was no diversion of rubble from its designated location to Hamas. The rubble was delivered by UNDP in coordination with the Palestinian Authority to a civilian area. There were no signs of Hamas presence in that area at the time.”
The UN statement also noted that “UNDP has twice requested access to Mr. Al Bursh to verify his fair treatment whilst in detention. At this time, such access has not been granted.” As of September 14, the UN had still not been granted access to Bursh, UNDP/PAPP Communications Specialist Dania Darwish confirmed to +972.
Bursh was held incommunicado for almost 40 days, with no UN or legal assistance, and of course no contact with his family in Gaza. Such treatment is common in Israel, particularly for Palestinians, because confessions are often prioritized over other standard investigatory tools, including forensics. The sure way to obtain conviction in Israeli courts is by getting a confession, and when Palestinians are the suspects, it rarely matters how it was obtained. Israeli courts rarely throw out confessions gleaned by torture, which is allowed under certain circumstances.
The two indictments, against Halabi and against Bursh, appear to be based entirely on confessions obtained by Shin Bet after each of these men was isolated, undergoing interrogation and under pressure for weeks, with no access to a lawyer.
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September 23, 2016 8:01am
- Yoza
  
  Any reason why my comment gets a “Your comment is awaiting moderation” warning?
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:05am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No reason, at all.
    
    It happens to all of us.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:26am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Shhhh, don’t tell him that. An even MORE paranoid Yoza might be entertaining!
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:43am
  - cmm
    
    I think it’s automatic based on various trigger words.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:27am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      I imagine that (from the original post) these “trigger” words might be:
      Israeli
      Hamas
      military
      rubble
      UN
      Gaza
      Palestinians
      torture
      interrogation
      confession
      bondage
      whip …
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:32am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Damn!
        
        No moderation! (The algorithm is smarter than I thought. Or else I got all the trigger words wrong.)
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:33am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        And Yoza
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:53am
      - Steve (North Shore)
        
        I pushed the report tab by mistake in your comment below – sorry about that chief.
        I was going to say the moderation could be a troll filter, don’t hear much from Spray and Walk Away these days
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:56am
  - redqueen
    
    While there may be keywords, I find it can be very random (anyway the wind blows and all of that). What I’m tempted to test is to see if moderation is retroactive…so you post something very minor, then edit it to the actual intended content…
    
    As for downticking someone asking a legitimate technical question…I mean, come on people! TRY to be collegial 😛
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:40am
    - Griff
      
      I think you may have it .
      The moderation bug is linked to editing
      
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      September 23, 2016 9:18am
      - redqueen
        
        I’m hearing some UAT coming… 😉
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:50am
  - dime
    
    maybe cause it was a boring comment?
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:42am
    - redqueen
      
      If DPF has a filter for that, he’ll be a billionaire soon enough… 😉
      
      And if so, I’m willing to invest in creating an app to do it for the poor, long-suffering, end-user! 😛 Why leave it just to the blog, I want protection too! 😛
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:50am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Stop being a naughty boy then 🙂
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:52am
  - Rich Prick
    
    The borg has your number. And it knows where you live.
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:11am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Pull your tinfoil hat a bit tighter and try again Yoza 😉
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:36am
- G152
  
  I see the Useless Nations had a hand in that load of racist crap
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:04am
- rangitoto
  
  Your post has to go through GCSB vetting. Normal procedure for posts from the looney left.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:53am
pdm

A very good bowling effort by New Zealand although they probably bowled a few too may four balls. Batting is going to be tough though and I cannot believe they dropped Nicholls for Ronchi – time will tell who is right I guess.
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September 23, 2016 8:04am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I watched India cruise from 130 to 160 for one, and became depressed. I switched to a Pommy betting site and found that NZ had twice as much chance of winning this test than Joe Biden has of being the next President, and he is not even in the race!
  Cricket; it can change so dramatically!
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:46am
- Keeping Stock
  
  It could turn out to be an inspired selection pdm, and I’m half expecting Ronchi to open, with Guptill moving down to #5. Long term, I’d like to see Raval and Latham opening, with a choice between Guptill and Nicholls in the middle order.
  
  The batsmen will want the bowlers to take the final Indian wicket as quickly as possible, so that they can get a few runs before the pitch deteriorates much further. It’s certainly going to be hard going from tomorrow onwards, so they will have to prosper today. But when India was 154-1, I’m sure I’m not the only fan who was expecting the worst; India making 500-plus, and bowling us out twice. It was a terrific fightback in the second half of the day.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:41am
Manolo

Tax people to death says the ultra corrupt queen:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/22/boom-clinton-just-threw-trump-a-softball-with-her-whopping-65-tax-rate-commentary.html

Clinton’s campaign just issued a press release calling for a whopping new top rate of 65% on the richest estates and 50 or 55% on smaller estates. Clinton had previously been backing a top rate of 45%, so this is a major shift.
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September 23, 2016 8:08am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Take too much from productive people and give it to non-productive people, and you run the risk of the making productive people wonder why they are working so hard and so long.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:12am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    One other thing.
    
    Non-productive people need productive people, but productive people don’t need non-productive people.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:19am
    - Zed
      
      Labour also needs non-productive people; their votes that is; although labour socks so bad even those people won’t bother showing up to vote!
      
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      September 23, 2016 9:36am
      - Zed
        
        Socks=sucks
        
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        September 23, 2016 9:41am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Or, you make the productive people move their organisation’s offshore to low tax countries like Ireland and they leave the cash offshore and don’t invest in the US- which means no jobs get created.
    The US needs to compete with that by becoming a Tax haven itself.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:20am
  - Yoza
    
    Based on the wobbly assumption that people who receive a disproportionately large share of revenue expropriated from the exploiting society and the environment are somehow productive. Buying and selling existing real estate isn’t productive; renting money to people isn’t productive; borrowing money to speculate on the share market isn’t productive.
    There is a vast chunk of activity in the modern economy dedicated to retarding the efforts of the productive sector – the parasitic rentier class, led by the finance industry, are the greatest threat to the development of human society.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:24am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Yoza,
      
      You are confusing “productivity” with “exploitation” and “speculation.”
      
      I am talking about the production of marketable goods and services.
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:36am
      - Ross12
        
        Odakyu-sen
        
        Above you are making a big assumption when you say, taking from the productive people and giving to non productive people —does Clinton actually say where she what she would do with any extra tax ?
        ( If I was one of the non productive I would not hold my breath, with Clinton holding the purse strings)
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:53am
      - Griff
        
        No matter what Clinton’s plan is it is not going to be as stupid as Trumps .
        Tax cuts and spending increases .
        His economic proposal is going to cost 9.5 trillion over its first decade.” abcnews.go.com/Politics/realities-donald-trumps-economic-policies/story?id=41232034
        
        http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21704792-republican-nominees-ideas-economy-are-thoughtless-and-dangerous-scrimping-sense
        
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        September 23, 2016 9:15am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Anyone for buzz-word bingo?
      
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      September 23, 2016 10:30am
- cmm
  
  She has been playing it up to the Bernie crowd in the last week. Free everything, tax the rich pricks (ie. middle class).
  
  They know that unless they get the Bernie supporters they’re screwed. However this will also push away independent/uncommitted voters towards the Trump side.
  
  Clinton is lookin g more and more like she’s running a Chewbacca policy (*something like the Chewbacca defence): confuse the hell out of people with irrelevant information and hope that in their befuddled state they vote for you.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:18am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  That’s sure going to fix things. Never mind, a Democratic President will always look after you
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:07am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    There is the moderation key “Democrat – President” does it
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:08am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    
    That’s sure going to fix things. Never mind, a Democratic President will always look after you
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:15am
Happychappy

I see the criminal is about to win again and how long is it going to take Labour and Andrew Little to find a excuse to go into bat for them and hook them up to the homeless and deprived low income workers
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September 23, 2016 8:09am
Paulus Gnome

Rather than paying the scum who may have had free board, lodging, eye tests, medical care, clothing, foot-ware, counselling, warmth, education, legal representation and unlimited sex in the shower over what the Courts had ordered, any form of compensation should be in the form of a ‘time served’ credit.

Calculate the time that they are owed for erroneously being detained and give them a credit for that time off any custodial sentence that they MAY receive in the next five years. Chances are that they will reoffend.

Massive saving on court time and costs where the aholes get representation and finally compensation at the taxpayers’ expense that then immediately gets paid off the reparations due elsewhere that they would never have paid.

The winners in any situation arising from this balls up as the litigation flies and there is appeal after appeal, will be . . . . . (drum roll) . . . ta da! the lawyers! – quelle surprise!
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September 23, 2016 8:10am
EAD

Article on stuff about asks about why some parts of NZ “still so pale”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84484733/which-is-new-zealands-whitest-region

“Have you ever noticed your town seems very … white? Any chance you’re in the South Island?

It’s there you’ll find the face of modern New Zealand still looks distinctly European – and it’s a sensitive issue for councils, ahead of next month’s local elections.

In Auckland, on the other hand, the question of “what does a New Zealander look like?” has far more answers – something the Auckland Council is eager to highlight.

So which part of New Zealand is diversifying the fastest, and why are other parts still so homogenous

From her tone, she obviously thinks it’s a bad thing that certain districts haven’t felt the benefits of diversity. Note her tone that she is shocked that parts of NZ are still the wrong sort of “homogeneous”. Does she ever pause to think that 90% of the world’s population live in areas that are “homogeneous” and it’s her ideas that are so warped?

These naive, self hating “yoof” and their virtue signalling really piss me off. The civilisation and safe childhood that she enjoyed didn’t just happen – it was the result of centuries of distilled culture in a new land formed by a very homogeneous population. Change that population, especially at a rapid rate (see the Frankfurt Schools 11 points to destroy civilisation), and you destroy that culture.

If she wants to lecture South Islanders about their lack of diversity, I will respect her more if she spent several months living in formerly white, but no “diverse” cities such as Johannesburg, Detroit, West Sydney, Malmo, Marseille etc.
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September 23, 2016 8:11am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  It’s not the diversity of race; it’s the clash of values relating to:
  – hard work
  – respect for rule of law
  – locus of responsibility
  – individualism vs. collectivism, etc.
  that make the difference.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:18am
  - Reid
    
    Yes everyone knows its wrong O-s but the point is even tho everyone does know this it keeps happening, all over the Western world and the question is, is why is that?
    
    Both EAD and myself and a few others already have a satisfactory answer that explains this reality but most of you don’t. And the amusing thing is, most of you accuse US of being irrational.
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:27am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Reid,
      
      People in Western countries who make the decisions to allow in cultures whose values will clash with the native populations may be so insulated from the effects of their actions that they simply don’t care. Or they simply believe that they are doing the right thing.
      
      Or they may be (reaches for tinfoil hat) under pressure from “external factors”. This line of thought is more EAD’s cup of tea.
      
      PS. This comment went to moderation. (I did edit it twice.)
      
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      September 23, 2016 10:27am
- kowtow
  
  Or Charlotte , where some of that “diversity” is viciously attacking non whites for not being black. Wow, the enrichment is so worth celebrating.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:28am
  - EAD
    
    re Charlotte, how many people actually believe we are being “enriched” by bringing in 3rd worlders to our once safe and peaceful lands?
    
    Apart from the likes of Stephieboy, does anybody actually believe this shot or do they just nod along, not wanting to be stigmatised for pointing out what we can all see with our own eyes? How long can the house of cards built on lies stand?
    
    “Do not let yourself be disconcerted by the worldwide clamor that will now begin, there will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph.”
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:39am
    - itstricky
      
      I’m sure the lies will collapse when that economic collapse, you’ve been talking about for years, happens. What’s the latest ETA? Any day now?
      
      And, Frankfurt Schools? Give us a break.
      
      Now… On a different topic… If 9/11 was a controlled demo, what was the deal with The Pentagon?
      
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      September 23, 2016 9:27am
      - Reid
        
        Well it sure as hell wasn’t a 757, was it.
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:25am
- EAD
  
  Just checked out the authors twitter page and you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to guess her world view on every single subject.
  
  https://mobile.twitter.com/mcquillanatorz?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
  
  No surprises also that she openly mocks people who have the “wrong” opinion of her stuff article.
  
  These SJWs really live in a vacuum….
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:29am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD , do you envisage yourself as race defilement ( blood purity ) spokesman in a future National Socialist Party of yours?
  
  http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/blood-purity-and-nazi-germany/
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:31am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY!
    NAZI!
    
    F.O.S.B!
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:07am
    - Griff
      
      Ball bag shouting is a little over the top.
      ((( EAD))) is a self identified national socialist a.k.a NAZI .
      
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      September 23, 2016 10:23am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Doesn’t matter who SB is talking to he drags Nazis and Hitler into the conversation. A self circle jerking Godwinite.
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:37am
- RF
  
  A great reason to head south. Good for your health and safety.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:56am
  - starboard
    
    Yup..hail Queenstown, no specials here.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:53am
- dime
  
  she seems to hate the fact that shes white.
  
  another moron SJW
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:57am
- Rich Prick
  
  Hold on. So it’s the responsibility of “white” inhabitants to deliver diversity? What are they to do? Abduct bownies from Auckland and install them in Gore? I’m not sure who will detonate first, Ahmed or Gore.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:23am
  - Kabull
    
    Spot on, RP. The imbalance in diversity that she complains about could only be ‘fixed’ by forced internal migration. People will live where they see the best opportunity, or prefer the weather, or have family, or whatever else …
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:01am
- ross411
  
  lol, comments are now closed. The first rule of publishing Laura McQuillan’s racist nonsense, is to suppress the comments widely panning it as racist.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:48am
kowtow

Big Brother just keeps getting bigger.

” This week, Nottingham Women’s Centre and Nottinghamshire Police held an event to share some of the outcomes of their much-discussed new policy of recording misogyny as a hate crime.”

Donncha just love “progressives”?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2016/sep/22/six-things-weve-learned-about-misogyny-as-a-hate
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September 23, 2016 8:11am
- mandk
  
  Misandry is OK, though?
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:19am
  - cmm
    
    Gay pride, black pride,… great to see these people feeling empowered.
    
    White pride: evil racist.
    
    Female/gay sex toys: It is healthy to explore your sexuality.
    Male sex toys: Filthy pervert.
    
    Female slaps/punches male in movie: Romantic comedy.
    White male slaps female in movie: Male brutality.
    Maori male slaps female in movie: Blame the whites for Maori poverty.
    
    Female works hard and struggles to juggle family and career: Poor woman needs special support and an easy track to the top.
    Male works hard and struggles to juggle family and work: Unfeeling workaholic.
    
    etc etc etc
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:35am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Come on cmm,
      
      It’s Friday. Be happy.
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:37am
      - ross411
        
        Can a right thinking white person really be happy when there’s no diversity in south island towns?
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:49am
      - cmm
        
        I can’t… the battery is flat.
        
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        September 23, 2016 1:54pm
    - sam green
      
      Poor wee mite.
      
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      September 23, 2016 3:13pm
- Rich Prick
  
  So if I were to make my wife wear a head-to-toe black garbage sack, would that make me guilty of a misogynistic hate crime? I smell a double standard coming.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:27am
  - kowtow
    
    rich prick .
    They have that covered, forgive the pun. OK for a Muslim to demand his wimmin cover up , not OK for a non Muslim male to comment on it, that becomes a “hate crime”. So truly ,we live in very dangerous times and Big Brother just gets bigger.
    
    Many of those local women’s experiences revealed the intersection of misogyny with other forms of prejudice, notably Islamophobia, with one woman being told by a man in the street that she’d look much better “without that thing on your head”. The crimes recorded by the police during the initial reporting period also revealed these intersections; they included women’s experiences of “racially or religiously aggravated public fear, alarm or distress”.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2016/sep/22/six-things-weve-learned-about-misogyny-as-a-hate
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:21am
Manolo

The crook seems to be losing it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/clinton-why-arent-i-50-points-ahead-of-trump/2016/09/21/d9142b3e-8072-11e6-9578-558cc125c7ba_video.html
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September 23, 2016 8:12am
- stigie
  
  Never seen her so angry Manolo, is Trump really getting to her perhaps..?
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:17am
  - All_on_Red
    
    She must be scared its slipping away from her, just like in 2008.I hope she loses it in the debates. They reckon 100 million will be watching.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:24am
    - geoff3012
      
      That’s if she turns up
      
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      September 23, 2016 8:57am
  - G152
    
    It’s an act.
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:10am
  - mara
    
    Also Assange having her crooked e-mails.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:07am
- cmm
  
  If she doesn’t understand why then she’s even more deluded than anyone ever thought.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:22am
- Scott
  
  It’s like getting told off by your angry old great aunt, the one you try and avoid at family occasions because she is the one that turns her eye on you and says “you bloodied kids need to….”.
  How people find her likeable and electable is a mystery to many of us?
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:42am
  - RF
    
    I liken her to the deaf old aunt who sits in the corner farting and when she gets up there is a wet patch in her chair.
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:01am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Chickens coming home to roost maybe?
  Karma is a bitch
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:13am
kowtow

Ghandi must fall. Tehehehe.

“Ghanaian professors are calling for a statue of Mahatma Gandhi to be removed from their campus because they claim he was racist and considered Indians to be “infinitely superior” to black Africans.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/petition-calls-for-gandhi-statue-to-be-removed-from-ghana-university
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September 23, 2016 8:13am
- ross411
  
  Ah Gandhi, yet another cult leader who slept with teenaged girls he was related to. At least Gandhi kept the level up to an albeit incestuous 17, we can’t say the same for Mohammed who went for 9 year old wives.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:04am
All_on_Red

Strange goings on in Wellington
‘The number of foreign objects needing removal from people’s orifices this year is on the rise in several regions.
More Wellingtonians have had foreign objects removed from their orifices in the year to date than in each of the last two years, district health board figures show.
Among items needing extraction from people’s front and back passages were screws, bottles, apples, a chicken bone and a Paua shell.’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11715076
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September 23, 2016 8:15am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  There are a lot of Green voters in Wellington.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:27am
- Gabby
  
  Nothing Guy’s been pulling vast amounts out of his arse, which must boost the stats.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:17am
Happychappy

As Colin Craig called Nicky Hager to give evidence in his trail i wonder if he has the serial liar and fat kraut on his witness list also
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September 23, 2016 8:15am
- Keeping Stock
  
  He may be stupid Happychappy, but I don’t think even Colin Craig is THAT stupid!
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:44am
Manolo

The progressive Pope, audacious seller of smoke, lectures the masses:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-says-journalism-based-fear-mongering-gossip-form-165547877.html

Journalism based on gossip or rumors is a form of “terrorism” and media that stereotype entire populations or foment fear of migrants are acting destructively, Pope Francis said on Thursday.
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September 23, 2016 8:17am
- Ross12
  
  Manalo
  
  A couple of weeks ago I read a column in “The Australian” by Chris Mitchell –the former editor of the paper. He really ripped into modern journalism and how it was being taught at Universities and journalism schools. It is well worth a read if you can find it ( I read a hard copy ).
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:03am
- ross411
  
  We often ponder the same topic here, regarding that a lot of modern journalism is framing things for page views, and doesn’t seem to involve fact checking.
  
  I suspect a real journalist who checked the facts and didn’t go for the headline would find themselves justifiably fomenting fear of muslim migrants.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:07am
Manolo

stephieboy rejoices:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_sep22

With the first presidential debate coming on Monday, Donald Trump has moved to a five-point lead over Hillary Clinton, his biggest advantage since mid-July.

The latest Rasmussen Reports weekly White House Watch telephone and online survey finds Trump with 44% support among Likely U.S. Voters to Clinton’s 39%.
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September 23, 2016 8:20am
- Scott
  
  Thanks for that Manolo. For myself I would say that the polls are confusing at the moment? The latest WSJ poll had Clinton ahead by 5? So it may be that different polls with different methodologies are producing very different results?
  
  Trump does appear to have the momentum but it is very difficult to read the polls right at the moment. I know that the real clear politics average has it very close, separated by 1%.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:39am
  - deadrightkev
    
    Seriously, how could Trump not have the momentum by 50%?
    
    He has no scandals behind him and Clinton is a walking billboard for everything that is corrupt and vile.
    
    If the polls were genuine and straight he would be a long way ahead. No one that fills stadiums like he is can be only a few % ahead.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:34am
    - Gabby
      
      No scandals? You fucking kidding, right?
      
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      September 23, 2016 11:19am
William of Ockham

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11715022
Why a President Trump will probably be okay, in one simple sentence … Toby Manhire

Not so long ago it was said that the idea Donald Trump might be elected the Republican candidate for president was outlandish, and then it happened, but, don’t worry, there was no way he’d stand a chance of getting voted into the most powerful office in the world, and yet now, with the US election less than 50 days off and early voting already under way in some states, he’s neck and neck in polling with Hillary Clinton, so it’s about time to ask whether he would really be so face-meltingly terrible as some suggest, or whether he might actually be fine, and it seems to me, when you think about the reality of a President Donald Trump, that apart from the way he’s stoked the fires of prejudice across America, by declaring a blanket ban on Muslims entering the country, by pledging the deportation of millions of undocumented immigrants, by announcing that Mexican immigrants are drug dealers and rapists, by pledging as his core policy plank to build a wall separating Mexico from the US, which in defiance of basic rational sense he is going to get Mexico to pay for, by declaring that a US-born Supreme Court judge was unfit for such a role because of his “Mexican heritage”, not to mention Trump Jr cheerfully promoting his father’s campaign by comparing Syrian refugees to poisoned Skittles, and apart from his commitment to an array of swivel-eyed thinking that would make a garden-variety conspiracy theorist blush, whether it be the declaration that global warming is a hoax propagated by the Chinese or the oh-so-statesman-like claim that Barack Obama, whom he’s accused of founding Isis, was born outside America, a smear he held firm to until just the last few days, when he explained that it was always Hillary Clinton’s idea anyway, and he was here to put an end to the nonsense spurred by the woman he has called “brainwashed”, a “monster”, “the devil”, and the “most corrupt candidate ever”, while cheerfully and dramatically misrepresenting her policy positions, for example in asserting that she would bring 620,000 Syrian refugees into the US, and let’s recall in passing the catalogue of abuse hurled at his fellow Republican contenders, such as drawing a comparison between Ben Carson’s admission to having a violent temper when young with the behaviour of child molesters, and insinuating that Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the assassination of John F Kennedy, and apart from his alarming refusal, in defiance of four decades of bipartisan concord, to release his tax returns, and apart from the panoply of scandals swirling around his hotel businesses, his Trump University, described by one former employee as a “fraudulent scheme”, which “preyed upon the elderly and uneducated”, and his charitable foundation, funds from which, the Washington Post this week reported, had been used to settle lawsuits involving his businesses, and apart from Trump’s comparison of his own sacrifices in business to those of the parents of an American Muslim killed at war, or his tender explanation that he “can relate” to the victims of racism because “even the system against me is rigged”, and if you overlook for a moment the fact that he has, as Fox News host Megyn Kelly pointed out, called women “fat pigs”, “dogs”, “slobs” and “disgusting animals”, as well as attacking Kelly for having “blood coming out of her wherever”, which is all part of a rich tapestry of remarks, including, “if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her”, the suggestion that fathers who change nappies are “acting like the wife”, and the observation that “it doesn’t really matter what [media] writes as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass”, and were it not for the Republican candidate’s cavalier approach to pedantic matters like facts, going beyond his history of inventing pseudonyms to perform as his own press spokesman or his avowed attachment to “truthful hyperbole”, and cranking things up to a contempt for plain-as-day, stare-you-in-the-face truth, as evinced in his repeated lies about having opposed the Iraq War before it began, his fantasies about having seen Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey and his fabrications about 9/11 hijackers sending their wives back to Saudi Arabia, along with his incoherent, loose-as-a-garden-hose pronouncements on everything from abortion to gun control to immigration, or his ignorance of and indifference to the US constitution, or his involvement in an estimated 1900 court cases as a plaintiff and 1450 as a defendant, or his attacks on the media, including routine bans on outlets who report unfavourably attending his public events and the pledge to “open up the libel laws” so that “when they write hit pieces, we can sue them, and they can lose money”, or his reported consideration of the appointment to the Supreme Court of Peter Thiel, the libertarian Silicon Valley billionaire who secretly bankrolled a lawsuit that bankrupted the website Gawker, or his support for torture and the assassination of terrorists’ families, or his offhand threats to quit the WTO or Nato, or his praise for the way Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong-un cracked down on criminality and his respect for the Chinese response to Tiananmen Square, which “shows you the power of strength”, or the mocking of war veteran Senator John McCain for getting captured in Vietnam, or his exhortations to supporters to physically attack protesters at rallies, or his totally cunning plan that will completely eradicate Isis but about which he cannot share a skerrick of detail because then the bad people in Isis will know about his totally cunning plan which may or may not involve sticking a tail on his own backside and self-determining as a weasel, or his ability to attract eager endorsements from an array of extremists including the head of the American Nazi Party, three former Ku Klux Klansmen and a host of other similarly minded poppets, and as long as you ignore the reality that, as president, this thin-skinned, vindictive, volatile, authoritarian fabulist would, in the words of nuclear security authority Bruce G Blair, “be free to launch a civilisation-ending nuclear war on his own any time he chose”, then, you know, put on the kettle and relax, a President Donald Trump will probably be OK.
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September 23, 2016 8:26am
- Scott
  
  I think you should have a cup of tea and relax. That is the biggest load of leftist nonsense that I’ve ever heard. Are liberals becoming unhinged at the prospect of President Trump? Most definitely!
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:36am
  - jonar
    
    The article appears to be rehash of things that Trump has actually said and done. So why is it nonsense?
    
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    September 23, 2016 1:27pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Tldr;
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:38am
- stephieboy
  
  William of Ockham ,
  
  Well, it worked for Adolf so there is no reason why it can’t work for Trump.
  
  Was it Geobell’s who said if you repeat a lie often enough people will tend to believe it ?
  
  We see the very operation of this slogan by our gullible Trumpists this morning .
  
  “There’s a gullible side to the American people. They can be easily misled. ”
  
  Michael Moore
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:40am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    HITLER!
    GOEBELLS!
    TRUMPISTS!
    
    FUCK OFF STEPHIEBITCH!
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:03am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, Hillary Clinton is perhaps the best living (?) proof that Goebbels was right, isn’t she ? Maybe though she espouses a variant related to consistent lying.
    
    Did you see the video, where Charlie Crist (currently a Democrat) says on stage that he believes that Hillary Clinton is honest and the whole crowd bursts out laughing ! And that was a Democrat audience.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:14am
- Dave Mann
  
  Far too wordy. This is a thread for *comments*, not for screeds of interminable long-drawn-out boring prose.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:58am
- deadrightkev
  
  Manhire would never get a paying job in a real newspaper with real investigative journalists. Not that they exist much these days.
  
  Manhire only exists because the media is so distorted in its management and editorial quality.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:38am
  - Gabby
    
    He should just fuck right off with his true things, the factual bastard.
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:25am
Scott

Replying to Kimbo about Genesis 1: 6 “And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters” (NRSV). Kimbo argues for a solid dome, something like hammered out metal based on the word in Hebrew “raqia”. He argues that the water in the sky to be separated from the water in the sea had to be separated by a solid dome. And he argues that the Hebrews understood the sky to be a solid structure, a solid dome.

Thinking about the question, and admittedly this has made me think which is a good thing, the Dome cannot be solid. God made the sun and the moon and the stars and set them in the dome of the sky (verse 17). Now we know that the sun and the moon move in the sky and so they cannot be set in a solid dome. We also know that the stars move in the sky and again it cannot be a solid dome because otherwise how would they move? The birds fly across the dome of the sky in verse 20. If the dome was solid presumably they would hit the sky? Also the Hebrew people like everybody else are familiar with rain and cloud and how can we have low cloud if the dome of the sky is solid?

So the argument about a solid dome has a lot of problems conceptually and metaphysically.
It is important to understand that a literal reading of Genesis does not imply that there is no room for metaphor and simile and other figures of speech. So the idea of the sky being solid is a metaphor rather than a literal solid sky. We can see this in Scripture, for example Deuteronomy 28:23 – “The sky over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you iron.” Now given a drought the sky can seem like it is metal because it seems to be reflecting all the heat. Similarly the earth can seem like iron because it becomes hard. However no one including ancient Hebrews believed that the Earth was literally iron.

Your ideas about science are completely off base. Science always rests on metaphysical and philosophical assumptions that are not scientific. An atheist believes in the power of human reason unaided by God to tell him accurate information about the nature of the universe. You cannot prove this scientifically. It rests on assumptions which are metaphysical and philosophical. I (along with other creationists) believe the starting point of true science should be theology which is God’s revelation to us.

Lastly the idea of “sphere sovereignty” is completely rejected. Let me liken it to a murder case, the physical evidence, the forensic analysis, the statement of witnesses and the testimony of the suspect all must come together, they must be consistent. There are no spheres of sovereignty between scientific evidence and human testimony in a murder case. In the case of creation we have the opposite, life rather than death and in this investigation who made the world and how did he do it? God’s revelation, the Bible, must be consistent with the scientific evidence properly interpreted and the historical evidence properly understood. The truth is unitary. All truth is God’s truth, so theology should properly be the queen of the sciences.

I hope that is a sufficient reply? Remember that I am arguing something that you want to argue and I’m arguing on your ground, not my own. However as I have said it has made me think which is definitely a good thing
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September 23, 2016 8:34am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “And God said” did it for me. No need to read the rest.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:29am
  - mikenmild
    
    If you talk to God, that is prayer; if God talks to you, you are suffering from religious mania.
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:33am
    - Scott
      
      Umm God does talk to me 🙂
      
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      September 23, 2016 9:47am
      - mikenmild
        
        Case closed – schizophrenia.
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:10am
      - ross411
        
        Does he say “the former popes and all my priests are top blokes even if they covered up and moved around other pedophile priests so they could do their thing in places other where their acts are coming to light”?
        
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        September 23, 2016 11:10am
      - ross411
        
        Does he say “homosexuality = bad, owning world’s largest gay bath-house = good”?
        
        Get him to start answering some questions.
        
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        September 23, 2016 11:12am
      - B.L.Zeebub
        
        Has he got a tip for the 4.15 at Flemington ? Cheers.
        
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        September 23, 2016 3:57pm
    - kowtow
      
      So no GCMG for milky when he retires from the PS?
      
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      September 23, 2016 12:44pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Ha ha.
        OBE – other buggers’ efforts
        CMG – call me God
        KCMG – kindly call me God
        GCMG – God calls me God
        
        Unfortunately, none of these appellations are bestowed any more on the humble NZ public servant. Perhaps someone could suggest what our current post-nominal letters really represent:
        MNZM
        ONZM
        CNZM
        KNZM/DNZM
        GNZM
        
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        September 23, 2016 12:56pm
- jcuk
  
  The ‘solid dome’ is on casters so rotates to simulate Earth’s rotation ?
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:50am
  - Kimbo
    
    Hebrew cosmology (in line with the Ancient Near Eastern milieu from which it sprang) is tripartite – the heavens, the earth and a watery under the earth – hence the 2nd of the 10 commandments says (Exodus 20: 4)
    
    4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
    
    Also, as per Paul in Philippians 2:10
    
    at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth
    
    Originally there was nothing but a dark watery chaos (Genesis 1:2, “Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters”..
    
    Then God created the flat disc earth and the solid dome sky by “separating the waters above and below” (Genesis 1: 6-9). Both the dome sky and the flat disk earth are fixed, while the the sun, moon and stars move across the face of the dome.
    
    The earth is fixed on pillars in the midst of “the waters below”, whilst above the dome are the “waters above”. The dome has windows/sluice gates, which, at the time of Noah’s flood opened so that the waters that God originally separated in creation of Genesis 1 were joined together again. Thus, Noah’s flood was an act of “uncreation/reversal of creation”, hence much of the language and concepts in Genesis 1 are repeated in the flood narrative, including the aftermath of landing on dry land and the re-populating of the earth (i.e, “re-creation”).
    
    There are also three heavens (see Paul in I Corinthians II Corinthians 12:2, “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows”).
    
    The first heaven is where the birds fly
    
    …the second heaven is the dome sky across which the sun, moon and stars move
    
    …and the third heaven is above the “waters above”, and is inhabited by Yahweh and heavenly/angelic beings.
    
    Below the earth is Sheol, which literally means the grave, but, in the final biblical form (it was a doctrine that developed), it is also a compartment for those who have died and are awaiting the final resurrection. Sheol is divided into two portions, one inhabited by the unrighteous – hell – and the other by those who are righteous, also known as Abraham’s bosom.
    
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    September 23, 2016 3:09pm
- Kimbo
  
  Thinking about the question, and admittedly this has made me think which is a good thing, the Dome cannot be solid. God made the sun and the moon and the stars and set them in the dome of the sky (verse 17). Now we know that the sun and the moon move in the sky and so they cannot be set in a solid dome. We also know that the stars move in the sky and again it cannot be a solid dome because otherwise how would they move? The birds fly across the dome of the sky in verse 20. If the dome was solid presumably they would hit the sky? Also the Hebrew people like everybody else are familiar with rain and cloud and how can we have low cloud if the dome of the sky is solid?
  
  Er, nope. You haven’t read it properly, or at least appreciated the Hebrew. Which is why if you cannot directly access the original languages, it is best to survey a range of Bible tarnslations, and rather than choose the one that fits your preconceptions, instead take them all into account to try and get a feel for how the various translators are trying to capture nuance and meaning.
  
  Here is how the NIV translates Genesis 1:14-19:
  
  14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
  
  in = the Hebrew letter beth used as an inseparable preposition = in/with/by/among (this is basic 1st year biblical Hebrew, btw, so I’m not being overly technical.
  
  The verb “set” is the Hebrew nathan,
  
  http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5414.htm
  
  … and as the greater and lesser light “govern/rule” the day, a better translation of “nathan” in this context is “God appointed the greater…and…the lesser light” It is actually a key part of the theological argument of Genesis – nature is not divine, instead the one creator God appoints everything unopposed and to fulfill his purpose. Hence even though there are Hebrew words for “sun” and “moon”, they are not used – as they are also the names of pagan deities.
  
  Instead of being “fixed” in place in the dome, in Hebrew (and other Ancient Near Eastern cosmology which Hebrew thought inherited) the sun (and moon and stars) race across the face of the 2nd heaven (the first heaven is where the birds fly, the 2nd is the solid dome/vault which restrains the “waters above” which God separated out to create solid ground, and the 3rd heaven, above the “waters above” is the abode of God and the angelic beings) :
  
  Psalm 19: 1-6
  
  1
  The heavens declare the glory of God;
  the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
  2
  Day after day they pour forth speech;
  night after night they reveal knowledge.
  3
  They have no speech, they use no words;
  no sound is heard from them.
  4
  Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
  their words to the ends of the world.
  In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
  5
  It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
  like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
  6
  It rises at one end of the heavens
  and makes its circuit to the other;
  nothing is deprived of its warmth…
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Bloody Hell, talk about minds being taken over by some imaginary being.
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:04am
  - Scott
    
    Kimbo – this argument is getting very technical. I certainly am not using the NRSV to suit my presuppositions. It is the translation that many biblical scholars see as most accurate, for example at Massey University it is what the religious studies professor recommends and also what they use at Carey Baptist College for Old Testament and New Testament studies.
    I kind of think you are saying that the translation of the Bible is wrong? But anyway I have made my points. Good discussion – happy to move on.
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:11am
    - Kimbo
      
      @ Scott
      
      Kimbo – this argument is getting very technical.
      
      Um, well, not really. This is basic 1st year biblical studies – and many untrained lay people do it to. But can I suggest that if you are having difficulties…then it is not your fault, but you have been listening to so-called “authorities” who are very deficient in using relatively simple and straight-forward biblical study tools well.
      
      Which has always been my critique of creation science. I’m no expert in science, but what humble knowledge I have with biblical studies tells me these guys haven’t even applied Luther and Calvin’s first interpretive principle – find out what the text meant to the original recipients (who read Hebrew and Greek, not a translation!) before trying to apply it to your own context and perceived needs – especially in a :”technical field” like science/evolution/the Big Bang, etc!
      
      I certainly am not using the NRSV to suit my presuppositions. It is the translation that many biblical scholars see as most accurate, for example at Massey University it is what the religious studies professor recommends and also what they use at Carey Baptist College for Old Testament and New Testament studies.
      I kind of think you are saying that the translation of the Bible is wrong?
      
      Nothing wrong with the NRSV, but it, in its entirety or in any text is not the final word. There is no “definitive” translation and likely never will be. is a basic misunderstand of Scripture to think otherwise.
      
      As I’ve posted elsewhere, no translation is “entirely right”. And you are misapplying what Carey and Massey Uni are advising. Dig a bit more and they will tell you that, for public worship and as an all-round version for study (so we are all on the same page when writing essays or doing exams), sure, you have to choose one version. Usually the NIV is good because it uses the principle of “dynamic equivalence”. In contrast the NASB is very word-for-word literal – and suffers accordingly as the Hebrew syntax and idiom are very wooden and don’t “flow” into English.
      
      A basic rule of thumb in any biblical theology, especially if you are consulting the Scriptures over a “technical matter” – use as many translations as possible to get a “feel” for what the nuances and possibilities of the original writers and/or translators (some of whom, in the case of the KJV had none of the fruits of the discipline of archaeology).
      
      After all, translation is actually more of an “art” than a hard science, hence, as per the requirements of sphere sovereignty, study the Scriptures with tolls and approaches that are most appropriate for it. Basic stuff taught by the Reformers, Luther and Calvin!
      
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      September 23, 2016 11:27am
      - Scott
        
        No I think you are using your own presuppositions to be quite frank. Basically you are using the reformers, Luther and Calvin as your standard of how to interpret scripture. Then you also used Hebrew cosmology as definitive of how to interpret the Genesis passage and then you decided the NRSV wasn’t quite right as to how it interpreted the passage in question.
        But look I’ve finished my work here. I have given a straightforward interpretation of the passage based on a plain reading of it. I have used a reputable translation to show you that the sun moon and stars cannot be set in the dome.
        I don’t think you are being fair in saying that everything must be 100% literal and that it is inconsistent to use metaphor and simile and other describing words.
        But anyway we are too far apart and I don’t think we’re ever going to agree.
        
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        September 23, 2016 11:46am
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Scott
        
        No I think you are using your own presuppositions to be quite frank.
        
        Really? OK. Let’s see you expose them:
        
        Basically you are using the reformers, Luther and Calvin as your standard of how to interpret scripture. Then you also used Hebrew cosmology as definitive of how to interpret the Genesis passage and then you decided the NRSV wasn’t quite right as to how it interpreted the passage in question.
        
        Um, you don’t see how those things interlink? Here, let me join the dots for you:
        
        Luther and Calvin, for all their stress on getting the Bible into the language of the common people, still understood the need to start with the original languages (hence they did not look to the Latin Vulgate, which had been “the” Bible of the Western Church for over 1,000 years!).
        
        Using their principle, and consulting the original language (rather than a single translation – remember Luther and Calvin were before the time of “we can use just one definitive translation in the common tongue” – and as above they often rejected Jerome’s Vulgate! – I’ve sought to do what they advised:
        
        When understanding Genesis 1, like any text, find out first what it meant to the original recipients. Arcaheology is a very useful tool to do that, as it sheds light on Ancient Near Eastern cosmology as well as rival theological beliefs, which, once you know what they are, you can see Genesis is seeking to affirm/work with some…and refute others.
        
        And if you don’t have confidence in using Hebrew or Greek study tools, fine – just don’t bank everything on one translation, especially if it seems to conform to your existing prejudices!
        
        But look I’ve finished my work here.
        
        A pity, seeing as you were the one who first posted, in a rather dogmatic fashion that implied criticism of anyone who disagreed with you, that Genesis is “scientific”, and, more than that, in contradiction to the findings of modern science, the earth was created in 6 literal days some 6,000 years ago.
        
        I have given a straightforward interpretation of the passage based on a plain reading of it.
        
        Indeed, as do the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But you’ve dodged the issue of whether it is accurate, as in (and as per Luther and Calvin) …did the original recipients understand the earth is a globe orbiting the su8n, held in place by gravity and encompassed by a gaseous and liquid atmosphere…or did they think the earth was flat, with a solid metal-like dome, which restrained “the waters above”.
        
        I have used a reputable translation
        
        Straw man. I’m not disputing the NRSV is not “reputable”. Just that, in Genesis 1, as with any other text, it is not “the final word”. As other translations use “vault”, “dome” and firmament, that should alert you that there is more here in the play than just choosing the translation that suits your…existing schema. Hence the following:
        
        …to show you that the sun moon and stars cannot be set in the dome.
        
        …is a sine qua non.
        
        I don’t think you are being fair in saying that everything must be 100% literal and that it is inconsistent to use metaphor and simile and other describing words.
        
        Um, I’m not. You said that Genesis is literal when it refers to 6 days, and genealogies that stretch bach some 6,000 years ago. But if I am being unfair, tell me, and everyone else, what is your test for “literal” and “figurative” other than the presupposition “Genesis is 100% scientifically accurate”, and therefore if a literal statement isn’t…it must be figurative, i.e., illogical circular reasoning! If that is not what you believe and/or implicitly and tacitly practice – tell us what your “genesis is science” interpretive system looks like in detail!
        
        But anyway we are too far apart
        
        Um, why? Is just getting interesting!
        
        … and I don’t think we’re ever going to agree.
        
        Uh, huh. But unless you were engaged in a truth seeking and proclaiming exercise, why implicitly call others (including, to quote you, “scientists”) out over their false beliefs concerning Genesis in particular, and their general “godlessness”.
        
        Or are you the only one who gets to place the blow torch of examination on others? Not very credible, sorry, Scott. I wrote previously you are not a “spray-and-walk-away” merchant. Sadly, based on this last post I will have to revise my opinion…provisionally, pending repentance on your part. Have a bit more courage, Scott. I know you’re made of sterner stuff! 😉
        
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        September 23, 2016 12:14pm
- Kimbo
  
  @ Scott
  
  So the argument about a solid dome has a lot of problems conceptually and metaphysically.
  
  Um, but that is an appeal to your existing schema of understanding and demanding the Scriptures adhere to it, rather than submitting to the authority of Scripture. Like I pointed out previously, if you are imposing meaning and expectations on the Scriptures rather than letting them speak on their own terms, then you have no form of “quality control” to correct if those assumptions and conceptual constructs are mistaken. Instead, let the Scriptures speak on their own terms, let the chips fall where they may….and then construct/correct your schema. Including Genesis 1
  
  It is important to understand that a literal reading of Genesis does not imply that there is no room for metaphor and simile and other figures of speech.
  
  Er, yes it does, unless you want to be totally arbitrary. Your interpretive system has now become, in effect: “If I run into something in Genesis that, if read literally is unscientific, then it must be figurative. But if not, it is literal. And I’ll look for any piece of evidence that will buttress that argument, and use it like a “get out of jail card” rather than taking the time to be disciplined by steady cumulative research, both biblical and scientific (and any other relevant discipline that can shed light on the matter too!). Hence:
  
  So the idea of the sky being solid is a metaphor rather than a literal solid sky. We can see this in Scripture, for example Deuteronomy 28:23 – “The sky over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you iron.” Now given a drought the sky can seem like it is metal because it seems to be reflecting all the heat. Similarly the earth can seem like iron because it becomes hard. However no one including ancient Hebrews believed that the Earth was literally iron.
  
  Uh, huh. So really, if it must be understood figuratively where a literal understanding would be unscientific….then the claim you can “prove” the Bible is scientific is nonsense….in the same way the Jehovah’s Witnesses can prove (by ever-changing arbitrary literal and figurative interpretations) their teaching is “found in the Bible”.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:00am
- Kimbo
  
  @ Scott
  
  Your ideas about science are completely off base. Science always rests on metaphysical and philosophical assumptions that are not scientific. An atheist believes in the power of human reason unaided by God to tell him accurate information about the nature of the universe. You cannot prove this scientifically. It rests on assumptions which are metaphysical and philosophical. I (along with other creationists) believe the starting point of true science should be theology which is God’s revelation to us.
  
  “Completely off base”. He he he. remember my previous comments about adverbs being used to rhetorically plaster over gaps? 😉 Straw man. Yes, science is built on metaphysical foundations (ontology, epistemology), which is why, btw the Industrial Revolution could never have arisen in a Hindu or Buddhist culture where nature/creation” is in some way “not real/an illusion”. Nonetheless, if done properly science proper (as distinct from its applications, including ethical and social concerns) confines itself to…measurable material phenomena. That’s what makes it…science.
  
  Lastly the idea of “sphere sovereignty” is completely rejected. Let me liken it to a murder case, the physical evidence, the forensic analysis, the statement of witnesses and the testimony of the suspect all must come together, they must be consistent. There are no spheres of sovereignty between scientific evidence and human testimony in a murder case. In the case of creation we have the opposite, life rather than death and in this investigation who made the world and how did he do it? God’s revelation, the Bible, must be consistent with the scientific evidence properly interpreted and the historical evidence properly understood. The truth is unitary. All truth is God’s truth, so theology should properly be the queen of the sciences.
  
  Another straw man. Sphere soverinty does not assert disciplines are ultimately and absolutely divorced from one another. Instead, let the biologist, physicist, chemist, theologian, philosopher, lawyer, butcher, baker and candlestick maker use their expertise, and inform one another where appropriate. But an “outsider” with no specialist knowledge of a disciplinehas no right to turn up as aJohnny-come-lately and like the Church with Galileo, declare “this is invalid”. Creations Science, for whatever its “scientific credentials” is lamentably awful in understanding and engaging with the basic tools of Biblical scholarship. Instead they take the cheap easy out that it is controlled by “liberal atheists” (no so!), thus giving them a “get out of Jail free” card so they can just read Genesis 1 like it is science.
  
  I hope that is a sufficient reply? Remember that I am arguing something that you want to argue and I’m arguing on your ground, not my own. However as I have said it has made me think which is definitely a good thing
  
  Thanks for the effort, and also the feedback and good on you for thinking. However, your rationalising that ” Genesis does not imply that there is no room for metaphor and simile” when the corner stone of Creation Science is “it’s literal because “God wouldn’t say something that isn’t true” (a simplistic aand false construction based on a logical positivism that is foreign to the Scriptures, btw)….shows you have some more thinking to do, IMHO. You schema of understanding does not match the Scriptures, so you need to
  
  1. Properly perceive the pieces in the Biblical text jig-saw puzzle, and then
  
  2. Put the pieces together in a new way that allows the Scriptures to speak as a whole, and
  
  3. then (and only then) ask the question how does this fit with modern scientific discovery and our knowledge of the physical cosmos?
  
  Do that right, and I’d suggest there is still an entirely legitimate way to have both your biblical and scientific cake and eat it too 😉
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:06am
  - jcuk
    
    These two are worse than Penny ever was.
    
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    September 23, 2016 3:28pm
- ross411
  
  When I become prime minister, I am going to build a dome over Australia, and make the Australians pay for it! You’re with me, right?
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:14am
lastmanstanding

Just voted in the Auckland Council elections. Didn’t vote for any current members. Time for the change. Time to sluice out the Agean Stables that is that discredited dysfunctional body. And didn’t vote for Goff he who refused to sign the Ratepayers Alliance call to restrict rate increases to no more than 2%.
Goff intends to carry on where Brown left off to drive ratepayers on fixed incomes out of their long term homes so he can give them to the homeless and the other bludgers.
Communist Bastard that he and the others are!!!!!
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September 23, 2016 8:40am
- redqueen
  
  Yeah, I am going to do that this weekend. The sad fact, though, is that nobody of our options is someone I really want to vote for. They’re all pinkos (just some are less communist than others). I suppose the Auckland Futures are first choice for me, but only because that’s ‘as good as it gets’ (and one of our options from that bucket talks about how connected they are to the ward, then names only suburbs in North Shore). As for mayor, I guess Crone, but even she is advocating a pinko agenda.
  
  Happy days 🙁
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:46am
  - jcuk
    
    Oh DEAR! The ‘Reds under the bed’ists are having a field day 🙂
    
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    September 26, 2016 6:18pm
- RalphT
  
  So lastman, when you say “Didn’t vote for any current members…. And didn’t vote for Goff” can we interpret that as meaning you cast your vote for Penny?
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:50am
- Dave Mann
  
  Goff also wants to introduce a tax (of 19c if my memory is correct) on plastic bags! This man should never get near the mayoralty.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:04am
  - ross411
    
    I hate paying for plastic bags, but a tax on them would make me bring some bags of my own. It’s not like a tax on sugar, which is ridiculous and actually accomplishes nothing.
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:16am
Maggy Wassilieff

I’m wondering if some of us could chip in a few bob for a subscription for stephieboy to the Betoota Advocate.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-37227389

He’d be able to entertain us non-stop with his “breaking news”
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September 23, 2016 8:52am
- stephieboy
  
  Maggy Wassilieff, yes it did initially fool me .
  
  Guardlan not Guardian .
  
  Never mind .
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:02am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    well stephieboy, now that you have mastered Google 101….. How to find some info…..
    let me teach you some Google 102 (we are still at entry level Google)….
    Check your source.
    (like do another Google search…. or check out some of the other links, or even…… ((na, I’ll leave that for another lesson)).
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:32am
    - Griff
      
      ROFL
      yip Maggie giving someone a lesson on critical thinking on the web just wreaked yet another irony meter ..
      Check your source…..
      Is it like disputing the conclusion of the worlds scientific body’s with the crap you found on same random anonymous webshite ?
      
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      September 23, 2016 10:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And for those folks who would like today’s lesson in spelling or how to differentiate between possessives and plurals
        
        Maggy
        wrecked
        world’s
        bodies
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:52am
      - Griff
        
        ROFL
        yip Maggie I can not spell for shite my written English is atrocious.
        You my dear can not think critically about the information you access .
        I know which disability I would rather have.
        
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        September 23, 2016 10:58am
lastmanstanding

IMHO if Trump is elected he could well turn out to be the best POTUS since Ronnie the actor. Lets face it those that followed failed to do justice to the office is probably the nicest way to put it. Clinton a sleaze ball and crook like his missus. Two Bushes who took the country and the West into failed wars. And the great black hope Obama. “His” people now doing worse as Trump so often explains than when he took office. “His” people rioting in the streets.
In 4 years or even 8 years people may well say Trump was a great POTUS. Stranger things have happened at sea.
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September 23, 2016 8:52am
- redqueen
  
  He’s a big government spendthrift. He’s anti-free trade. Forgetting all the rhetoric about how scary he is, how he’s blustering, blah blah blah, the mere fact that he’s a progressive in a wolf’s skin makes him unlikely to achieve much (if the objective is to produce a liberal, rather than progressive, agenda – I find it hard to use the term conservative in the States anymore, as they are often just as progressive as their supposed mortal enemies). Even if elected, you’ll get more of the same, just with gusto / bluster (depending where you sit).
  
  So it doesn’t bode well, no matter who becomes el presidente in January.
  
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  September 23, 2016 8:58am
Scott

No I don’t see it like that red Queen. Trump is not a free-trade absolutist, that is true. He maintains that trade is not free, that countries like China in particular are rorting the system. He wants to renegotiate trade deals so they are more in favour of America. He is pledged to cut corporate taxes to encourage businesses to come back to America and he has also pledged to cut down regulation so that new businesses can operate in a more business friendly environment.
I would say that he has forgotten more about business and creating wealth than Hillary will ever know. I am excited about a Trump presidency. A thriving United States economy would be very good for the rest of the world including New Zealand.
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September 23, 2016 9:42am
- redqueen
  
  Okay, so let’s look at what you’ve just said:
  (1) He wants to ‘renegotiate trade deals so they are more in favour of America’;
  (2) He wants to stop countries rorting the system; and
  (3) He wants to reduce corporate taxes (along with reduce regulation).
  
  (1) This means very little. Getting cheap goods will be beneficial to the US. Insisting that you make something with American workers at $10 per hour, compared to South Americans at $2 per hour, isn’t particularly beneficial for the US or South America. The opportunity cost alone is huge (diverting people from higher value activities to something which can be done at far lower cost). ‘Bring jobs back’ isn’t as good as it sounds, but he has not really made any firm commitments.
  
  (2) Rorting the system is a major problem, but one which you don’t need trade deals for. If they’re dumping or currency manipulating, you have legitimate grounds (under most agreements I’ve seen) to take action. Going, ‘They’re cheating’ is very easy to say, but often means they’re cheaper than you are and you don’t think that’s fair. The Chinese will not, at this point, insist on the same safety and environmental regulations as richer countries. If you don’t like that, you can either reduce your own standards or you can impose environmental / human health taxes on goods which are produced at below your own standards. That will strip out the complain that the Chinese are willing to cut corners. But the real point is, you’re applying high regulatory burdens and then complaining when someone else doesn’t.
  
  (3) Reducing the complexity and rate of US corporate taxation isn’t going to happen until there is a day of reckoning in the US. Saying, ‘We’ll lower the rates’ is cheap and easy. Actually implementing it, in real detail, is far more complex. If he can do it, with Congress, good on him. But I won’t be holding my breath. It’s the golden objective, but always seemingly out of reach.
  
  Good arguments, but I am not sure they’ll hold up under real conditions.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:21am
Scott

For a very humorous take on Hillary’s latest speech where she is shouting a lot check this out. It will add some laughter to your day 🙂

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/09/theres-something-about-hillary-2.php
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September 23, 2016 9:47am
Lucia Maria

Cats being shot, poisoned, disappearing in Morven, residents say

A number of the commenters blame Gareth Morgan.
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September 23, 2016 9:49am
- ross411
  
  One commenter named Lucia Maria who seems to have it in for Morgan, and blames any cat cruelty on his well spoken concern that cats kill desirable wildlife?
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:32am
  - Griff
    
    Cat lady……
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:50am
    - Gabby
      
      Lizard boy…
      
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      September 23, 2016 6:10pm
NK

Did I hear it right on the news a couple of days ago that Finlayson has approved a treaty settlement that allows for appointed Maori to sit on the Taranaki District Council? If so, won’t other Iwi now demand the same thing? Because it’s enshrined in Treaty legislation, it’s virtually impossible to get rid of. Did I hear this right – can someone please tell me I’m wrong.
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September 23, 2016 9:52am
- Ross12
  
  NK
  
  I heard a short discussion on this, on Larry Williams’s show last night. It seems the original proposal before Parliament was that they MAY appoint iwi members to a couple of Committees but this has been changed to MUST appoint. Debra Coddington thought this was strange thing to do
  ( from a procedural point of view) and she said she thought it would have to go back through the Parliamentary system for it to go ahead.
  So the main point it is, it is not the full Council they are talking about but a couple of Committees , apparently similar to what happens in Auckland.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:04am
  - wiseowl
    
    This whole appalling,disgusting,anti democratic,unacceptable ,dictatorial situation is explained in detail in Breaking Views by Mike Butler.
    How anyone elected to a council can sit around a council table under these conditions is beyond me.
    
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    September 23, 2016 12:58pm
kowtow

The common enemy. Obama , Merkel , Trudeau.

“US President Barack Obama made a special thank you to Chancellor Angela Merkel and Germany on Tuesday at the United Nations, praising her for doing “the right thing”.’

https://www.thelocal.de/20160921/obama-thanks-merkel-germany-for-open-refugee-policy
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September 23, 2016 9:57am
- wikiriwhis business
  
  Well that’s changed all of a sudden> Merkels party got slammed at the polls and Keys will too
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:22pm
Manolo

Obama’s White House leaking all over:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3802108/White-House-staffer-s-email-hacked-revealing-Secret-Service-plans-Joe-Biden-s-private-schedule-Michelle-Obama-s-PASSPORT.html

DC Leaks said in an email: ‘The leaked files show the security level of our government. If terrorists hack emails of White House Office staff and get such sensitive information we will see the fall of our country.’

The hack also revealed a Power Point detailing the recent trip of Vice President Joe Biden to the Intercontinental Hotel in Cleveland on June 26 of this year. The detailed report includes how many stairs Biden will be walking up as he arrives at the hotel loading dock and makes his way up to the second floor of the facility.
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September 23, 2016 10:15am
- Inandout
  
  Michelle’s passport has been leaked (how come they are allowed to smile in the photo?), but not Barry’s birth certificate.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:23am
  - mikenmild
    
    Birther alert. Snigger. Even Trump (sort of) gave up on that one.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:45am
Manolo

A failed state, a pariah nation? Never. Wonderful and civilised Pakistan:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-calls-Pakistan-a-terrorist-state-in-furious-response-at-UN/articleshow/54460414.cms
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September 23, 2016 10:21am
dime

looking forward to this virtue signalling idiot going bust:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/84561897/coke-goes-flat-for-one-cafe-owner
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September 23, 2016 10:25am
- ross411
  
  Just coke.. what about all the other products she sells that have sugar or plastic? I don’t get it.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:36am
- calendar girl
  
  What about Coke in cans?
  
  I’m with Dime – I prefer to do business with people who look after my needs and wishes, not with those crying out for personal attention and admiration.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:41am
- wikiriwhis business
  
  One store in Rotorua has stopped selling Coke.
  Has a memo gone out the days of fizzy are over.
  
  But wasn’t that a Labour Party manifesto. Can’t tell the difference these days
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:19pm
Manolo

The Prophet and some Mt Roskill residents would approve these barbarians “generosity”:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1830946/isis-documents-reveal-jihadi-wives-receive-suicide-vests-and-machine-guns-as-wedding-gifts/

ISIS brides are being gifted suicide belts and machine guns in their wedding dowries, new paperwork reveals.

Newly uncovered documents in Libya tell how cash-strapped jihadis are offering their wives-to-be deadly bridal presents as a bizarre sign of their affection.
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September 23, 2016 10:41am
Manolo

The more new voters for the corrupt Clinton, the merrier.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/22/email-shows-federal-immigration-bosses-in-ot-push-to-swear-in-new-citizens-due-to-election.html

An internal Obama administration email shows immigration officials may be literally working overtime to swear in as many new “citizen voters” as possible before the Nov. 8 presidential election, a powerful lawmaker charged Thursday.

The email, from a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services field office chief and part of a chain of correspondence within the agency, urges the unnamed recipient to swear in as many citizens as possible “due to the election year.”
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September 23, 2016 10:57am
tom hunter

I had to chuckle at this comment on the additional disgrace that Anthony Weiner has heaped upon himself with revelations of his sexting realtionship with a 15 year old girl:

Weiner illustrates, in a particularly noxious way, a basic fact: the political class is no better than the rest of us. If you watch YouTube videos of Weiner when he was in Congress, what is most striking is the pose of moral superiority he adopted when excoriating Republicans. It was almost Biblical.

But Weiner’s pose was a fraud. The political class is not superior to the rest of us, morally or intellectually. Their pretensions are bogus. Therefore, we should give them less money and less power over our lives.

Almost? It is biblical, as are most of the lectures we receive from left-wingers on most subjects. It has been observed that the reason so many leftists hate Christians has nothing to do with being secular and/or atheist, but because they regard it as competing religion.
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September 23, 2016 11:10am
Captain Mainwaring

They’re now saying SH1 north of Waikanae is now going to stay closed until 3pm. That’s almost nine hours.
Yes it was a fatal crash which is tragic, but this is the country’s most important highway. Why does it take so long to take the photos, take the measurements, shovel the wreckage onto a truck and get on with life?
I don’t know of any other country in the world which closes things down for so long after a crash.
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September 23, 2016 11:10am
- Gabby
  
  Well on the Ponyboy scale of callousness that’s only about a 3. They could have just bulldozed it off the side and burned it there.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:35am
  - ross411
    
    Never an opportunity where you can’t use a tragedy to childishly take a dig at John Key, eh?
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:39am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Ross, I think he’s just warming up for the title of ‘nastiest little shitbag on kiwiblog.’
      
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      September 23, 2016 11:47am
      - Gabby
        
        Wankstain-free though. For heaven’s sake tidy yourself up, man.
        
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        September 23, 2016 12:45pm
- Griff
  
  I have been caught three times in the last three months by the serious crash squad closing roads.
  Twice on state highway one between Warkworth and Wellsford where the detour via state highway 16 adds an extra hour in the journey.
  They seem to close the roads totally just because they can.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:47am
Hugh Pavletich

… Kiwis have no intention of living in dense shoeboxes …

More Auckland apartments being passed in as tougher LVR restrictions force investors to pull their horns in | interest.co.nz

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/83723/more-apartments-being-passed-tougher-lvr-restrictions-force-investors-pull-their

The new loan-to-value ratio (LVR) mortgage restrictions, which limit new bank mortgages to 60% of a residential investment property’s valuation, are starting to bite the Auckland apartment market.

At this week’s regular CBD apartment auction conducted by Ray White City Apartments, eight apartments were offered up for sale but only one sold under the hammer, a clearance rate that would have been unthinkable just a few weeks ago.

Perhaps even more worrying was that four of the apartments offered received no bids at all, although one of those was on a leasehold title, an arrangement that is out of favour with many investors. … read more via hyperlink above …

From February last year …

English – Wheeler’s comments as popular as Ebola – Business – NZ Herald News

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11408501

Finance Minister Bill English said calls by the Reserve Bank Governor for more densification in Auckland’s housing were “about as popular in parts of Auckland as Ebola” would be. … read more via hyperlink above …

… From late August this year …

Housing campaigner predicts spiralling house prices will be Key’s ‘Waterloo’ |Rob Stock |Fairfax – Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/83627043/housing-campaigner-predicts-spiralling-house-prices-will-be-keys-waterloo

Affordable housing campaigner Hugh Pavletich has predicted house prices will be so high on the eve of the next election they will be “Key’s Waterloo”.

By the next election, Pavletich said the median house price would be more than 12 times the median household income.

The current figure was just over ten, and when Housing Minister Nick Smith was appointed (early 2013) the median multiple in Auckland was 6.7. …

… “We are careering towards a multiple of 12 by the time of the next election this time next year.”

“We voted him in in the 2008 election to deal with the problem and he promised to do so. Yet now we are sitting on a multiple of 10.2 and heading to 12 because of the government’s sheer incompetence in dealing with the issues.” …

… Pavletich said not enough house-building was happening on the fringes of Auckland.

“I just don’t believe they are hitting the fringes hard enough to bring the multiple down.” … read more via hyperlink above …
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September 23, 2016 11:11am
tom hunter

The fact that Weiner was seen – not so long ago – as a leading Democrat with a great future in front of him, and was well-connected with the Clinton circus via his wife (Huma Abedin being Hillary’s No.1 confidante in fact), should also be noted as a mark of how far things have fallen.
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September 23, 2016 11:13am
- mikenmild
  
  It’s a terrible indictment on the whole Democratic establishment.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:17am
  - Reid
    
    No it’s specially an indictment on Killary but then again if you’re a lesbian it helps to select a philandering husband who doesn’t care if you’re not available and it’s a bit of a coincidence isn’t it that both lesbians chose that.
    
    The biggest issue of course is not the sex but Huma’s familial connections to terrorist groups and isn’t it convenient this connection would exist in the future WH CoS.
    
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    September 23, 2016 11:27am
    - Nostradamus
      
      Reid:
      
      The biggest issue of course is not the sex
      
      Well, if I was a guy in a relationship with a lesbian, then the no-sex rule would definitely be a big issue 🙂
      
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      September 23, 2016 1:09pm
- Reid
  
  No Tom, you might have once seen her like that but those of us who know what’s going on never, ever did.
  
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  September 23, 2016 11:27am
Jack5

Multiculturism is virulent in New Zealand local bodies. I’m not thinking of the moves for race-based council membership.

In a Stuff report headlined, “Which is New Zealand’s whitest region”, the Fairfax news service answers that these are in the South Island, and adds “it’s a sensitive issue for councils, ahead of next month’s local elections”.

Sensitive? Why? Are the councils ashamed?

What if Stuff were to say that it was a “sensitive issue for councils” that the North Island East Coast was predominantly Maori? Dame Devoid would be losing it again: jumping up and down and perhaps even this time smashing her squash racquet.

The implied racism in the report continues. Waimakiriri District is listed as the country’s whitest area.

In the report, Waimakariri’s mayor, David Ayers, seems somewhat embarrassed in saying by weay of counter-argument that his district is headquarters for the southern tribe, Ngai Tahu (whose typically pale skins and sometimes blue eyes are not unnoticed by other Maori.)

The report says:

Ayers said the council was actively encouraging ethnic diversity, both through its recruitment practices, and in a programme “specifically targeting the assimilation of newcomers to the district”, especially those whose first language wasn’t English.

What if the Mayor of a predominantly Maori area were to imply that the ethnicity of the district was somehow wrong or immoral, and that diversity was being encouraged and newcomers with ignorance of Maori language were being targeted in job recruitment?

The neo-Marxist ideology of multiculturism has so successfully infiltrated the West that ethnic diversity equates to good. Multiculturism is basically biased against one ethnicity, however. Have you heard of multiculturists attacking the mono-cultures of Japan, China, Korea?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84484733/Which-is-New-Zealands-whitest-region
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September 23, 2016 11:23am
- Zed
  
  Losers shout “racism” to gain what they can’t achieve based on qualifications, skill, or capabilities. Of course if you’re a white male then your screwed because the race card is off limits.
  
  9 1
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  September 23, 2016 12:16pm
  - Gabby
    
    Didn’t you just play it?
    
    2 7
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    September 23, 2016 12:34pm
    - Zed
      
      Nope. I’m not white
      
      6 1
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      September 23, 2016 1:07pm
      - Gabby
        
        You totally did.
        
        1 4
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        September 23, 2016 6:07pm
      - Zed
        
        @Gabby
        
        Totally did?! What are you, 5yrs old?
        
        3 1
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        September 23, 2016 6:57pm
      - Gabby
        
        As if.
        
        1 3
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        September 23, 2016 7:45pm
- stephieboy
  
  jack5 ,
  
  “The neo-Marxist ideology of multiculturism has so successfully infiltrated the West that ethnic diversity equates to good….”
  
  Codswallop ! jumping onto the White genocide conspiracy bandwagon ?
  
  1 9
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  September 23, 2016 1:21pm
  - Jack5
    
    A late “good morning” to the Stephie troll team: good morning, good morning … good morning to all of you.
    
    If you want to lift the debate above your usual troll chatter, you might start by looking at this discussion of multiculturism, which is no conspiracy, but an important fact in current societies, no matter how you view it.
    
    http://www.iep.utm.edu/multicul/#H2
    
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    September 23, 2016 1:48pm
  - Icarus
    
    If YT was a bird they would be listed as critically endangered. Habit, Breeding, Environment, are all under threat from invasive species.
    
    Why do you hate indigenous ethnic people……. from the North ?
    
    3 3
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    September 23, 2016 6:15pm
Manolo

Will the Muslim terrorist take up the offer?
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Benjamin-Netanyahu/Netanyahu-We-wont-accept-any-attempt-by-UN-to-dictate-terms-to-Israel-468464

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu invited Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to come “speak to the Israeli people at the Knesset in Jerusalem,” during his speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York on Thursday,

In return, he offered to “gladly come to speak peace with the Palestinian parliament in Ramallah.”
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September 23, 2016 12:26pm
- Reid
  
  Perhaps if Bibi didn’t build quite so many illegal settlements his actions might say something. Words are very cheap, especially when they’re Bibi’s.
  
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  September 23, 2016 1:33pm
Manolo

The UK is sinking lower and lower:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3803164/Ringleader-Oxford-University-Cecil-Rhodes-statue-campaign-accused-racism-admitting-wanted-whip-fellow-student-white.html

The ringleader of the Oxford University ‘Rhodes Must Fall’ campaign has been accused of racism after admitting he wanted to ‘whip’ a fellow student because he was white.

Ntokozo Qwabe, 25, was filmed using a stick to hit a student’s mobile phone out of his hands – and then ranted online that his victim was guilty of ‘white apartheid settler colonial entitlement’.
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September 23, 2016 12:29pm
dime

Was just reading an opinion piece about amazon prime video.

they may be looking to get into live sports.

as a way to penetrate new markets. so they would target rugby & cricket in oz..

how awesome will it be if we can ditch sky for amazon.
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September 23, 2016 12:31pm
Manolo

History will judge this infamous pair:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-09-22/obama-kept-military-out-of-the-loop-on-cash-payments-to-iran

One might think President Barack Obama would have asked his top military officials to weigh in on his administration’s decision in January to send $400 million in cash to Iran. After all, Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism, and terrorists prefer cash to wire payments because it’s so difficult to track.

But Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry did not consult Secretary of Defense Ash Carter or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joseph Dunford.
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September 23, 2016 12:54pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo ,
  
  pack of lies by whoever .That $400 million was part of a package of compensation payouts to Iran agreed upon by previous US administrations including the current . It was for Weapons paid for but not delivered going back to 1979.
  
  http://www.vox.com/2016/8/4/12370848/ransom-iran-400-million
  
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  September 23, 2016 1:28pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Gullible fool.
    
    7 6
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    September 23, 2016 1:57pm
    - mikenmild
      
      What a splendid contribution to the debate.
      
      4 10
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      September 23, 2016 2:09pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Your lack of self awareness is amusing.
        
        9 5
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        September 23, 2016 2:44pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Seriously now, one-line insults after everything stephieboy posts are:
        1. contrary to DPF’s comments policy
        2. uncivil
        3. unlikely to have any effect
        
        6 6
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        September 23, 2016 2:47pm
      - Griff
        
        Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others
        
        6 4
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        September 23, 2016 3:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Thank you Griff for explaining why you are such a nutter. Feel proud about bullying an 80 yo woman?
        Wow.
        
        3 3
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        September 23, 2016 7:36pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Seriously now, one-line insults after everything stephieboy posts are:
        1. contrary to DPF’s comments policy
        2. uncivil
        3. unlikely to have any effect’
        
        Every day Stephie comes on here and leaves abusive and rude comments on a multitude of comments, he is deliberately being a provocative troll
        1. Actually I’m within his policy. There is no doubt after Stephies comments about honeypots and how he admits leering at young girls that the guy is a creep.
        2. Uncivil- meh, own your own trolling shit and how about calling Stephiie on the repeated incivility he displays all day every day. And Griff- now there’s a rude bully. He has serious mental issues.
        3. Actually I think it has had some effect. It’s about time someone gave it back to him. Judging by other comments I reckon others feel the same way too.
        Oh, and frankly I don’t really care what you think. 25,000 posts on here. Really? Get a life.
        
        4 4
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        September 23, 2016 7:42pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Um, I don’t find stephieboy to be uncivil. He’s not the brightest, but fairly combative within the rules.
        Single word insults in reply just make you look even more juvenile and stupid.
        Thank you for paying attention.
        
        3 4
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        September 23, 2016 7:55pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh , he’s uncivil all right. Sure, he skates within the rules – very closely, but we can play that game too
        As you have seen.
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:04pm
      - Griff
        
        Actually I’m within his policy. There is no doubt after Stephies comments about honeypots and how he admits leering at young girls that the guy is a creep.
        
        The “guy” is a chick .
        Chicks look at other chicks it is the way they are wired .
        All the effort they put into getting made up dressing well etc goes right past the average bloke they do it for other woman .
        That is why stephie said that and thought nothing of it.
        The creep is you all on red.
        Projection ya see.
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:06pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Griff
        He’s not a chick . I know who he is and what he does for a living.
        Edit, women don’t describe other women as honeypots either.
        Not even lesbians and I have plenty of lesbian friends. The guy is just a creep.
        
        3 3
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        September 23, 2016 8:08pm
      - Griff
        
        Stephie….
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:13pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Lol
        No. Not that.
        He wasn’t hard to identify.
        You seem to have missed the comments where he has mentioned his children.
        
        2 2
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        September 23, 2016 8:17pm
      - Griff
        
        Yessss all on red
        I give that as much weight as I give most other dribbles you come out with.
        Including the news to me that I comment at WUWT.
        
        3 2
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        September 23, 2016 8:20pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yeah, the 97% consensus is that it is. You sure both seem to be criticised for the same things.
        Encore!
        
        ‘Griff,
        That’s called a straw-man argument. Look it up. The fact that you would stoop to such tactics means that you have no cogent arguments. This is why you are mostly ignored here.’
        
        ‘Anyone ever notice how Griff, just loses perspective of the article and discussion then wanders off in his hunt for assumptions and conspiracies?
        If his writing was a little more obtuse, he could be Loserandownsky researching his next fabrications.’
        
        ‘I gather, that you Griff, with your usual total lack of reading comprehension did not read the comments.’
        
        ‘Absolute confirmation that griffypoo, never reads the articles or most comments.
        Read the article griffy, before making grossly wrong statements’
        Funny. Now go on, fly into a rage and start the insults. Lol
        
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        September 23, 2016 8:25pm
      - Griff
        
        Dear little all on red .
        Did you ever think that most of us who engage with whacks over climate change notice exactly the same logic fallacy’s repeated time and time and time again.
        That is why we call them P.R.A.T.Ts Point refuted a thousand times .
        Once you have seen half a dozen knobs say the IPCC* changed the name to climate change from global warming when it stopped warming in 1998 you work out that you are dealing with some extremely special people.
        Now go be a big boy and read the abstract from latest study on conspiracy whackos I pasted up. Even better if you go read the linked paper it has some really funny shite on the logic errors made by the “scientists” you guys follow.
        
        *Intentional panel on climate change est 1988
        
        3 1
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        September 23, 2016 8:47pm
    - Gabby
      
      Clotty clot.
      
      2 3
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      September 23, 2016 6:06pm
- tom hunter
  
  Just as a matter of interest, does anybody have any idea what international law has to say about compensation for sales to a government that no longer exists?
  
  It’s been quite a common tactic for “revolutionary” governments to completely reject whatever deals had been done by their predecessors, not to mention all the nationalisation stuff of foreign-owned factories and the like. In the case of Iran specifically, most of the military and civil agreements and arrangements the Shah’s governments had with the West, were simply shrugged off by the Khomeini government.
  
  So surely it would be sauce for the goose to just tell the Ayatollah government to shove it on such compensation.
  
  Personally I’d have just given the money to the 1979-81 hostages and their families.
  
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  September 23, 2016 4:23pm
  - mikenmild
    
    I’m pretty sure international obligations, etc survive regime changes. Certainly territorial disputes persist, and one could also look at examples such as the postwar West German government settling claims arising from Nazi actions.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:32pm
Manolo

Outright theft.

Will Warren Buffett, well-know supporter of the ultra corrupt Clinton, flee the United States?

Hillary Clinton on Thursday announced an increase to her proposed top estate tax rate in her latest nod to Sen. Bernie Sanders and the progressive wing of her Democratic Party.

Clinton has repeatedly called to put a larger tax burden on the wealthiest Americans to boost investment in infrastructure and job creation. The revision will put a 65% tax rate on estates valued at $1 billion or more.

The top rate currently sits at about 40%, while Clinton had previously proposed an increase to 45% on inherited property.
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September 23, 2016 1:33pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo,
  
  you have a war like the 2003 war that cost an estimated $ 3 trillion,
  
  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314
  
  How do you pay for it ?
  
  Borrow ( as was the case ) .Or more usually raise taxes ?
  
  3 5
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  September 23, 2016 2:42pm
  - Ross12
    
    You are not suggesting Clinton proposes a war as soon as she gets into power ? If a war ever eventuates then it is legitimate to consider a tax to pay for it, but you don’t raise taxes before anything is in sight.
    
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    September 23, 2016 3:34pm
    - mikenmild
      
      It might very well be necessary to raise taxes to repay the trillions already borrowed for the War on Terror.
      
      4 1
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      September 23, 2016 3:49pm
      - Ross12
        
        If that is the case she should state that very clearly to the voters.
        
        2 0
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        September 23, 2016 5:42pm
Nostradamus

Warning: this is a confronting article.

Australian child molester Peter Scully faces death penalty in Philippines

He is a 53-year-old Australian accused of the torture and murder of children for his own sexual gratification that authorities are considering reintroducing the death penalty for.

Peter Gerard Scully, a father of two from Melbourne, is in a Philippine prison charged with some of the vilest acts known to humanity.

During court hearings and while being filmed in prison, the man believed to have perpetrated some of the worst crimes against children laughed, joked and acted nonchalant about his alleged crimes. His former lawyer Alejandra Jose Pallugna has revealed Scully treats jail like a holiday and has demanded a mobile phone and fresh beef, pork and chicken.

But that may change now the Philippines is considering putting him before a firing squad. And it is the fate of one victim in particular that has prompted appalled Filipino prosecutors to call for Scully’s execution.

I’ve read the article – the graphic descriptions of this scumbag’s crimes are confronting. Now, having read the article, I can’t think of a better punishment for this man than a slow and painful execution.
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September 23, 2016 2:24pm
renderer

Great news

Penny Bright ordered to pay council’s $7000 legal fees

The National Business Review-43 minutes ago

Penny Bright ordered to pay council’s $7000 legal fees. Campbell Gibson Friday September 23, 2016
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September 23, 2016 2:29pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  On one hand it’s great news Renderer. But it’ll probably cost Auckland Council seventy grand to collect the seven, if they ever get it.
  
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  September 23, 2016 2:35pm
  - stigie
    
    Keeping Stock is right, the straggler will go kicking and screaming before she hands any money over to the Auckland Council. Get some balls and sell her fucking house now instead of waiting another 9 fucking years !~
    
    7 0
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    September 23, 2016 4:32pm
- Nostradamus
  
  It’s been an up-and-down week for Penny.
  
  Penny Bright interviewed by talking dog in campaign video
  
  Penny recently posted details of this event:
  
  Bright Beyond Belief, a Tiny Theatre Production written and performed by Lisa Prager & Verity George to a sold out season last month, will be screened prior to Ms. Anne Speir interviewing Mayoral Candidate Penny Bright”
  
  Penny linked to a favourable review of Bright Beyond Belief by gayexpress.co.nz – seriously!
  
  6 0
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  September 23, 2016 2:38pm
- Brigitte
  
  At least she can’t complain about the transparency of where her money will be going.
  
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  September 23, 2016 4:15pm
mikenmild

Donald Trump needs your help to prepare for the first debate with Hillary Clinton.
Please follow the link below and provide suggestions for topics he should concentrate on.
https://gop.com/DEBATE-PREP-SURVEY/
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September 23, 2016 2:42pm
- stephieboy
  
  I heard Marco Rubio’s advisor on Midday Report and he felt that as Trump does not play by the usual rules of debate ( trades insults etc ) it would be best if Clinton didn’t turn up .
  
  3 8
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  September 23, 2016 2:49pm
  - Gabby
    
    That would certainly scotch any rumours about her health.
    
    3 1
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    September 23, 2016 6:01pm
- Manolo
  
  Clinton should keep handy a few gallons of water just in case her cough returns. Taking very long loo-breaks would also help her.
  
  6 3
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  September 23, 2016 2:56pm
- cha
  
  Should be fun.
  
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/09/22/trump-to-debate-moderators-dont-even-think-about-fact-checking-me-my-supporters-are-watching/?utm_term=.b33345034dfe
  
  5 1
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  September 23, 2016 2:59pm
  - stephieboy
    
    cha,Ttrump facts = Insults !
    
    6 5
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    September 23, 2016 3:24pm
stephieboy

Reid ( at 10. 25 am)

Well it sure as hell wasn’t a 757, was it.

It was Flight 77. The passenger manifest is here ,

http://911myths.com/html/flight_77_passengers.html

Where are they ?

On of it’s engines is here ,

http://www.sott.net/signs/images/parody_debris_4.jpg
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September 23, 2016 3:20pm
Scott Chris

I’m starting to wonder if Putin is now learning from Trump with regard to the Russian planes bombing the UN food aid convoy.

Simple formula; do something outrageous and obvious and then simply deny it.

Might be time for a drone to take out Putin and blame it on Chechen rebels.
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September 23, 2016 3:30pm
Nostradamus

Icelanders can now call their daughters Angelina after official name list expanded

Iceland has a limited list of authorised given names, managed by the official Names Committee which regularly adds monikers to the list at parents’ request.

The committee on Wednesday added 11 names, including Angelina (with an acute accent on the i in line with Icelandic grammar rules), as well Luna, Hofdis and Eilif for girls and Eyjar and Kiran for boys.

The committee’s role is to look out for the child’s best interests, and ensure that names are compatible with Icelandic traditions and language.

Stephieboy: will you be asking the Names Committee to add “Muḥammad ibn ʿAbdullāh ibn Abdul-Muttalib ibn Hashim” (or the shorter-form “Muhammad”) to the official name list?
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September 23, 2016 4:04pm
Chuck Bird

It beats me why women stick by such scum bags. I wonder if the Minister for Vulnerable children would like to comment. Surely the safety of a child is more important than the welfare of a paedophile.

Wellington man jailed for abusing niece, 9, and forcing her to watch porn

The judge said there were no victim impact statements before him because the mothers still supported the man.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/84599423/jailed-for-abusing-a-nineyearold-and-making-her-watch-porn
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September 23, 2016 4:06pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Chuck:
  
  The scumbag has been jailed. What do you want the Minister to say and what difference do you think it’ll make?
  
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  September 23, 2016 4:30pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    @Nostradamus
    
    The Minister is happy to demonize men as being the main perpetrates of domestic violence whereas women contribute considerably as being enablers of sexual abuse of children by their partners. Usually not the fathers in this case.
    
    The Minister herself is more interested in the paedophile than the victim in opposing paedophiles being named.
    
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    September 23, 2016 8:13pm
Reid

Killary has one year to live, says Medical Profressor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoBL7fqOVcQ
4 8
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September 23, 2016 5:20pm
- sam green
  
  I’m not a supporter of either candidate but Reid – do you actually believe that stuff?
  
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  September 23, 2016 6:06pm
  - Reid
    
    She’s either got that or she’s got Parkinsons sam. One or the other, no third alternative fits the reality of her medical incidents over the last five years.
    
    Since this is the case, the real question is: why does the media allow such a person to continue standing? And of course we all know from their behaviour that if Trump was in this position they would show no quarter.
    
    So to repeat, why do have they and why do they continue, to do that?
    
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    September 23, 2016 7:44pm
wiseowl

Wellington groper on bus is a 76 year old immigrant that has been here two years.

How come someone that is 76 can be a bloody immigrant?
I hope we are not paying him.
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September 23, 2016 6:03pm
- sooty
  
  Export him.
  
  6 1
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  September 23, 2016 6:17pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Family reunification?
  
  6 1
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  September 23, 2016 6:37pm
  - sooty
    
    Send the family then.
    
    1 1
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    September 23, 2016 9:20pm
- Reid
  
  I almost guarantee we are wiseowl.
  
  And they get in because their child or grand-child got a student visa, paid the fees, got the degree, got a job here, applied for Permament Residency, got it because of their history, and used the family provisions in the Immigration legislation to get their family over here.
  
  I’ve been telling you this for years.
  
  If you don’t like it, boot Key out and demand his replacements consults the nation about what we want our own country to look like in twenty years time.
  
  4 2
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  September 23, 2016 7:49pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    That’s exactly right. I had to laugh at the Greens on one hand moaning about house prices yet the other day were sticking up for International Students!
    So ignorant.
    
    6 2
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    September 23, 2016 7:54pm
Icarus

Debate is proceeding as as I have forseen

Dodgy weather forecasts and questionable politics from the Griff, stupidboy, milky, socialist coalition.

Evidence of divergent and reasoned thought from the informed masses that take the time to have and share original thoughts.
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September 23, 2016 6:10pm
Griff

The ‘Alice in Wonderland’ mechanics of the rejection of (climate) science: simulating coherence by conspiracism

Abstract

Science strives for coherence. For example, the findings from climate science form a highly coherent body of knowledge that is supported by many independent lines of evidence: greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from human economic activities are causing the global climate to warm and unless GHG emissions are drastically reduced in the near future, the risks from climate change will continue to grow and major adverse consequences will become unavoidable. People who oppose this scientific body of knowledge because the implications of cutting GHG emissions—such as regulation or increased taxation—threaten their worldview or livelihood cannot provide an alternative view that is coherent by the standards of conventional scientific thinking. Instead, we suggest that people who reject the fact that the Earth’s climate is changing due to greenhouse gas emissions (or any other body of well-established scientific knowledge) oppose whatever inconvenient finding they are confronting in piece-meal fashion, rather than systematically, and without considering the implications of this rejection to the rest of the relevant scientific theory and findings. Hence, claims that the globe “is cooling” can coexist with claims that the “observed warming is natural” and that “the human influence does not matter because warming is good for us.” Coherence between these mutually contradictory opinions can only be achieved at a highly abstract level, namely that “something must be wrong” with the scientific evidence in order to justify a political position against climate change mitigation. This high-level coherence accompanied by contradictory subordinate propositions is a known attribute of conspiracist ideation, and conspiracism may be implicated when people reject well-established scientific propositions.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11229-016-1198-6
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September 23, 2016 6:18pm
- Icarus
  
  Awesome cut and paste Griff are you fishing for upticks ?
  
  I will give you one to get things going.
  
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  September 23, 2016 6:21pm
- Icarus
  
  Whoops wrong button
  
  11 4
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  September 23, 2016 6:22pm
Icarus

A German, a gay, a Muslim, a Jew, a Priest, a Gay, and a Chinese walked into a bar in Auckland.

The barman asked; What are you having ?

The Chinese shouted a round of drinks and they all sat around comparing how different we are from home, and how we don’t know shit.
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September 23, 2016 6:20pm
stigie

Could be a quiet night unless there is an unexpected meltdown that we don’t know of..?
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September 23, 2016 7:24pm
Steve (North Shore)

Krim dot com has karma catching up with him.
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/32707336/cityfitness-gym-has-ban-posing-after-underwear-incident/#page1
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September 23, 2016 7:40pm
Griff

Nope
Parrot had his little wobble last nite decaying into totally comprehensible gibbering .

Hey dad what it said did did potato the CO2 cat ate from doing more it. From to them encephalitis cow ?

Maybe one cone to many who knows .
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September 23, 2016 7:45pm
All_on_Red

‘totally comprehensible gibbering’

Err, you do realise he was taking the piss out of your own commenting ‘style’…
Actually did you mean ‘incomprehensible’? Cause you saying comprehensible sort of ruins your snark.
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September 23, 2016 8:00pm
EAD

@ Reid,

You will enjoy this:

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6fba0f7e55f0303d5b542cc5bef2fbc39c90e99289f9c3d6df5021e087975934.jpg
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September 23, 2016 8:12pm
Griff

He has done the same thing more than once sonny.
He loses the plot.
Sort of like someone claiming some else always has to have the last word then posting another four comments in a row all by himself .
ROFLMAO
Projection is soooo funny.
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September 23, 2016 8:24pm
Captain Mainwaring

The Indians don’t muck about when it rains. They cover the whole oval with plastic sheets, not just the wicket block.
Never seen that before, but then I don’t watch cricket that often.
Gotta say a pretty good start by the NZ batsmen though.
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September 23, 2016 9:07pm
- wikiriwhis business
  
  The Indians aren’t really a threat are they. When was the last time they won a world cup ?
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:10pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    When was the last time the World Cup was played in 5-day test format? In India, on wickets doctored to their tastes?
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:38pm
- mikenmild
  
  Very good effort. Couple of bits of luck so far. Latham caught except the ball touched the fielder’s helmet, and Williamson got away with a faint edge.
  Shaping up to be a very good test.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:14pm
wikiriwhis business

Fritz Springmeier Has Just Announced He Has Inside Info That the IMF Will Announce a New Global Currency on September 30th
FRITZ SPRINGMEIER- “THIS IS IT. (21 SEPT ’16) This is the culmination of
so many things I’ve written about in the past. I finally have a date to
pass on, Friday, Sept. 30, 2016, (more specifically, perhaps late in
the afternoon of the 30th for the IMF announcement.) (Before today, I
thought it would be after Hillary was by voter-fraud & rigged voting
made president.) I suggest you sit down while you read this. Insiders,
who care more about their fellow humans, than the corrupt system they
are part of, have whispered warnings about this. A few alert financial
analysts like James Rickards have picked up on the Sept. 30th date &
are warning people. Let me slow down and walk us through this financial
watershed event. This kind of sudden destruction matches the prophecy
of REV 18:8,10 (& PRV 6:15, ISA 30:13 & 1 THS 5:3).
http://www.everynewshere.com/fritz-springmeier-just-announced-inside-info-imf-will-announce-new-global-currency-september-30th/
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September 23, 2016 9:09pm
- Gabby
  
  No, don’t slow down! Godsake, it’s almost the 30th now!! Tell us what to do!!! Will a barble protect me or do I need more parfle magic!!!?
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:12pm
- mikenmild
  
  Dr Ray Stantz: “Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.”
  Dr. Egon Spengler: “Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…”
  Winston Zeddemore: “The dead rising from the grave.”
  Dr. Peter Venkman: “Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria.”
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:12pm
- Nostradamus
  
  wikiriwhis business:
  
  Fritz Springmeier Has Just Announced He Has Inside Info That the IMF Will Announce a New Global Currency on September 30th
  
  Do you actually think this will happen?
  
  This kind of sudden destruction matches the prophecy of REV 18:8,10 (& PRV 6:15, ISA 30:13 & 1 THS 5:3)
  
  Do you think this is the moment where Fritz Springmeier lost the plot?
  
  Oh that reminds me. What was the name of the joker who’s predicted the end of the world several times now, and each time he’s just moved his prediction date? (Apparently we’re lucky to have survived the end of the world on 29 July 2016.)
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:14pm
  - mikenmild
    
    You might be thinking of this chap:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Harold_Camping
    Eventually passed away (before the end of the world).
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:20pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Thanks Mikenmild – that’s exactly the person I had in mind.
      
      I see this text in your link:
      
      Harold Camping escaped the death sentence commanded in the Old Testament for prophets whose predictions fail (see Deuteronomy 18:20-22). The United States is not a theocracy so God had to do it himself.
      
      That’s seriously dark humour!
      
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      September 23, 2016 9:30pm
      - wikiriwhis business
        
        I don’t think he escaped actually
        
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        September 23, 2016 9:41pm
  - wikiriwhis business
    
    Hope he has lost the plot people. There is a huge crash coming though. And we are on the verge of WW3. J Key didn’t put aside $20B for nothing.
    
    And the US is getting their warships back in
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:29pm
Griff

Is (((EAD))) onto it yet?
He is our financial wizard after all.
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September 23, 2016 9:20pm
- wikiriwhis business
  
  Has Ead been on lately ?
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:40pm
- Icarus
  
  Hey Griff is it okay to put the washing on the line tomorrow weathergirl.?
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    If your bunions are playing up Icarus, I’d say it’s not.
    
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    September 23, 2016 10:31pm
nasska

A man complains to his local MP about immigration.
“My brother and his wife were kidnapped by Somalian pirates!”
“I’m sorry to hear that,” the politician replied, “But I don’t see how you can
blame that on our immigration policy.”
“Really?” was the retort. “They were on the Hamilton Lake at the time.”
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September 23, 2016 9:23pm
wikiriwhis business

I shared bout the dollar crashing this month (it definitely will soon) So I may as well share this

Gov’t Coming For Your Internet Freedom

Obama is set to hand over control of US internet to the UN body ICANN, increasing the power of foreign governments over the Internet, creating a gateway to content regulation. Free speech online could be censored by governments that do not hold this right to be of value. Owen Shoyer and Margaret Howell break it down.
Follow them on Twitter – @allidoisowen @margaretjhowell

Related:
MATT DRUDGE WARNS OF INTERNET TAKEOVER IN NEW VIDEO! – http://www.infowars.com/video-matt-drudge-warns-of-interne…/

TEXANS SHOCKED BY UN INTERNET TAKEOVER! – http://www.infowars.com/texans-shocked-by-un-internet-take…/

THE UN RELEASES PLAN TO PUSH FOR WORLDWIDE INTERNET CENSORSHIP – http://www.infowars.com/the-un-releases-plan-to-push-for-w…/

UN TO CENSOR THE INTERNET TO SAVE FEMINISTS’ FEELINGS – http://www.infowars.com/un-to-censor-the-internet-to-save-…/

UN TO TAKE CONTROL OF INTERNET OCTOBER 1ST – http://www.infowars.com/un-to-take-control-of-internet-oct…/
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September 23, 2016 9:39pm
wikiriwhis business

The mainstream media is already preparing for a Hillary defeat in November.

ESPN’s Nate Silver, who famously – and wrongly – declared Donald Trump had little chance of winning the GOP nomination, is now warming up to the possibility that Trump will win the presidential election.

But even more interesting, the left-wing Huffington Post published an extensive “obituary” for Hillary’s campaign listing nine reasons why she’s losing.

And, to their credit, most of the reasons are valid – and there’s nothing Hillary can do about them.
http://www.infowars.com/media-prepares-for-hillary-defeat/

This is probably the reason the Dollar is going to crash
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September 23, 2016 9:43pm
- Reid
  
  There’s a lot of reasons for the dollar crashing wiki but it won’t do that while it’s the reserve. Too many vested interests.
  
  I’ve also heard end of Sep for the gold backed currency but in context of it coming from the US not China-Russia. As you know their reserve alternate is coming but not quite yet.
  
  Not sure if you’re aware of the internal ructions they’re having in the US re: everything and wonder if maybe this is one of the outputs?
  
  Who knows.
  
  Maybe we’re completely wrong.
  
  Funny isn’t it, how the sheeple have absolutely no idea what we’ve just discussed.
  
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  September 23, 2016 9:55pm
  - wikiriwhis business
    
    Thanks Reid
    
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    September 23, 2016 9:59pm
  - SPC
    
    An alternative reserve is some way off – Russia will soon return to public debt and China’s banking system is very troubled.
    
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    September 26, 2016 6:26pm
wikiriwhis business

Petrol drops to lowest price in more than decade

Prices for petrol in some parts of Hawke’s Bay yesterday dropped to the lowest prices in the region in more than a decade.

But it was a case of good news for some and not so good for others.

The 150.7 cents a litre of 91 Octane at the self-service Karamu Rd Hastings pumps of Gull Energy being 3c a litre less than the apparent next-cheapest.

The Gull centre at Karamu Rd is also a whopping 28 cents cheaper a litre than the 178.9cpl being charged at such stations as the Z Energy station in Wairoa.

The Gull price in Karamu Rd of 150.7c, compared with 169.9c at BP Railway Rd late afternoon, was part of the nationwide spot-price dropping exercised by Gull Energy in selected locations, and was expected to last just till midday today.

With other discounts available, such as the AA Smartfuel card which at such stations as Napier pricecutting co-leader Caltex Hyderabad Rd would lop another 6c off the display price of 153.9cpl, some motorists will be paying well under $1.50.

It is the first time petrol prices in Hawke’s Bay have gone below $1.50 since the start of September 2005, when prices soared in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11714314
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September 23, 2016 10:11pm
- Icarus
  
  But what about PEAK OIL ? LOL 🙂
  
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  September 26, 2016 6:30pm
Jack5

Stephen Franks in his blog has an excellent piece on the Palmer draft constitution, and the dangers it could bring.

http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/
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September 23, 2016 10:39pm
Jack5

It’s a quiet night in Kiwblog Ward 1.

Can’t be a full moon.
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September 23, 2016 10:43pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Jack 5:
  
  Come and join the rest of us in Kiwiblog Ward 4.03!
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:47pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

Not sure if you’re still up, but if you are, any thoughts on this article?

Barack Obama to block bill allowing 9/11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia

Frankly, the litigation would be unlikely to achieve anything, but the political manoeuvring is interesting.
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September 23, 2016 10:46pm
- Reid
  
  It’s disgraceful Nosty. And against the constitution.
  
  But I’m not surprised at the depths to which they stoop.
  
  Shame the sheeple await MSM like WaPo and NYT to tell them something’s wrong before they bray into action. Because those organs of course won’t be telling you the above anytime soon, therefore whatever anyone says, it ain’t true, to the sheeple.
  
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  September 23, 2016 10:52pm
  - Gabby
    
    He knows how badly it could backfire. Half the middle east and south america lining up to sue right back.
    
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    September 25, 2016 12:39pm
- Icarus
  
  Obama is a savage beast who has spread war and death all over the globe. The Saudis are his kind of people.
  
  Obama is just another ignorant brutal black warlord.
  
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  September 24, 2016 7:57am
Jack5

A last multiculture story for the day …

Allegations some British aid workers are going to the Calais refugee jungle to shag the refugees. Multi-couture –> Multiculture –> Multi-coitus.

Could it be that it’s cougars, fornication-aid workers, who are really behind opening borders to the flood of refugees?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3802351/Calais-aid-workers-regularly-having-SEX-migrants-Jungle-camp-FEMALE-charity-helpers-likely-sleep-refugee.html
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September 24, 2016 12:16am
Manolo

No quarter given.
http://drudgereport.com/flashny.htm
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September 24, 2016 6:52am
Manolo

The image of perfect health:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1837156/hillary-clinton-denies-she-needs-brain-check-despite-bizarre-video-showing-her-eyes-moving-out-of-sync/
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September 24, 2016 6:53am
Manolo

An overpowering stench of corruption:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/23/fbi-gave-top-clinton-aide-cheryl-mills-immunity-in-email-probe-rep-says.html
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September 24, 2016 6:57am
MH

It’s good to see Spencers Devonpoor ppty allows for desperate immigrants trying to get away from Aklds housing costs by providing jettys at critical points.
I,m not jealous….envious barsted, who’d have thought there was money in toilet paper, muck yes but loo paper. Roll me over in the clover. To the barricades, citizens, no… to the shops and the bar codes and a bit of Swedish rounding !!!
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September 24, 2016 1:17pm
- Griff
  
  Spencers
  Meh they made a mint back in the day when every one in New Zealand was screwed by import licensing and protected businesses .
  They basically stole of us with the help of their mates in power.
  
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  September 24, 2016 1:22pm

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