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December 8, 2016 1:17pm by David Farrar

Prime Minister Bill English

30 of the 59 National MPs have now publicly declared for Bill English so he is the presumptive Prime Minister.

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NZ Politics

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Comments (241)

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Huevon

Personally, it’s good to see a Catholic get the job. I doubt he would say anything publicly, but he will understand the Islamic threat.

A safe pair of hands for economic management.

He doesn’t have much charisma but he will be up against Andrew Little in the election, so a fourth National term is guaranteed.

I would like Collins for Deputy just to piss off the lefties.
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December 8, 2016 1:23pm
- mikenmild
  
  A catholic will be good because he understands the Islamic threat?
  What will he do – ask the Pope to preach a crusade?
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:25pm
  - cmm
    
    I guess at least the Vatican built some walls and don’t let the sods in.
    
    18 0
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    December 8, 2016 2:58pm
  - paul scott
    
    Milk Maid. A Christian will probably have some sense of Western values. Add that to the 18% NZ First votes and we can keep the stone age rapist colonisers out of out country. Lets hope he sacks nancy boy Finlayson, before lunch time. Then Woodhouse straight after lunch. Election 2017 the Immigration and Democracy election. .
    
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    December 8, 2016 9:49pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      nancy boy Finlayson
      
      Nice exhibition of homopobia there Paul; not.
      
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      December 9, 2016 7:25am
- Ole Bill Mole
  
  He certainly lacks the charisma of Andrew Little……
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:27pm
  - RRM
    
    He certainly lacks the NEGATIVE charisma of Andy Little.
    
    30 2
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    December 8, 2016 2:14pm
  - cmm
    
    The sad part is that Andy really believes he has the common touch and the people really love those awful jokes he tells in his speeches.
    
    22 1
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    December 8, 2016 3:00pm
    - Boris Piscina
      
      The even worse part is that some of them actually do 🙂
      
      9 2
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      December 8, 2016 3:13pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      The difficulty is understanding where the joking stops and the explanations around policy or numbers begin, both hilarious! Not.
      
      8 0
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      December 8, 2016 3:45pm
- deadrightkev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Since when has Bill the devout Catholic spoken out for us Kiwis who want to retain our unique culture and not have sharia law by stealth?
  
  Its rumored that Key got out because Little was on fire in caucus and peaking toward the next election 😀
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:28pm
  - nasska
    
    Now we’ll have Vatican dogma by stealth instead.
    
    13 22
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    December 8, 2016 1:34pm
    - UpandComer
      
      Yes, I’ve heard that Bill’s first 100 days will consist entirely of passing Providentissimus Deus, Leo XIII 1893; Casti Connubii, Pius XI; Aeterni Patris, Leo XIII 1879 and word on the street is that he may also think about Quas Primas, Pius XI 1925… Better start learning high church latin.
      
      12 6
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      December 8, 2016 2:11pm
    - Working Class Bigot
      
      No you won’t. Stop being so damn paranoid.
      
      15 0
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      December 8, 2016 3:12pm
  - paul scott
    
    DRK I can’t see much coming from English. He has likely learned sleight of hand from [I didn’t keep any promises I made] John Key, and maybe slight of hand from Race based democracy from Nancy boy Finlayson.
    
    1 2
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    December 8, 2016 9:53pm
- Paulus
  
  Remember Bolger was a Catholic with a larger family than English.
  There are many Catholic MPs in Parliament – so what !
  
  21 2
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  December 8, 2016 3:12pm
  - Shazzadude
    
    Bill has always made a concerted effort to keep his religious beliefs and politics separate, conscience votes aside.
    
    15 2
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    December 8, 2016 3:45pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    Catholics are the new LGBTs Paulus. Or is that GLBTs? Whatever – homos.
    
    8 4
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    December 8, 2016 5:22pm
- kowtow
  
  Sorry Huevon . JK a secular Jew and BE a practising Catholic. They know full well the danger of islam . They passed plenty of law in relation to it. Surveillance, travel and the latest is around ‘cultural marriage’.
  
  But have they done anything to actually address the issue and prevent even more of them coming in ? No , they haven’t and Ngati Notional won’t be doing anything about it.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:58pm
  - paul scott
    
    kowtow . The election will have a say in all this.
    Bill will try to lead with economics, ” Its the economy and borrowing billions you have not noticed stupid ”
    Winston Peters will make it the Immigration election and take 19% plus.
    
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    December 8, 2016 9:58pm
    - kowtow
      
      Peters is the biggest time serving charlaton in parliament. He gets the headlines , but does bugger all.
      
      2 0
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      December 9, 2016 7:35am
- BlairM
  
  He won’t be up against Little. The Labour caucus were hitherto resigned to losing under him next year, but now will smell blood, and won’t be keen to go into battle under so poor a general.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:49pm
  - Duncan Brown
    
    So, you really think Labour are going to have another bloody coup, under the existing leadership selection rules – and still find time to fight a by-election and general election? Nope, I don’t think so.
    
    6 0
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    December 8, 2016 7:07pm
    - lifesgood
      
      They’ve got nobody better than hopeless Little anyway.
      
      3 0
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      December 8, 2016 7:56pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Quite so Duncan. This close to the election, they’re stuck with Little. That’s because no one else wants to take responsibility for an inevitable defeat.
      
      0 0
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      December 9, 2016 7:27am
  - calendar girl
    
    The Labour Caucus will want a change of leader? Has it asked the Federation of Labour yet?
    
    3 1
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    December 8, 2016 7:57pm
- greybeard
  
  Just like the Catholics “understood” the Nazi threat ?
  
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  December 8, 2016 6:27pm
- altiora
  
  Can someone please explain why Catholics seem to think they’re so special? Most Catholics are so by accident of birth; so I don’t think it something that remarkable. Still I don’t care less; so long as English doesn’t proceed to make a song and dance about his religion, unlike that bog-Irish mediocrity otherwise known as Bolger.
  
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  December 8, 2016 7:54pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Wow, there is heaps of prejudice on this site. I know a lot of Catholics and none of them “think they are special” Grow up.
    
    8 3
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    December 8, 2016 7:58pm
    - altiora
      
      Read Heuvon’s original message to which I was referring, and then you grow up.
      
      1 1
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      December 8, 2016 9:27pm
    - altiora
      
      Actually, they do think they’re special if you ask them who they think is going to heaven and who is going to hell.
      
      2 1
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      December 8, 2016 9:33pm
  - Sarkozygroupie
    
    I’ve spent some extended time with Jim Bolger during work overseas quite recently. I can categorically state that your assessment of him is quite wrong. He has an incredibly sharp and learned brain attached to his shoulders. Fascinating to listen to him expound on ideas.
    
    2 1
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    December 8, 2016 11:19pm
- Warren Murray
  
  History is against National winning. If a Labour supporter pushed Little under the # 3 bus as it turns into Bowen St, it would be a certainty.
  
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  December 8, 2016 10:26pm
- Richard McGrath
  
  “A safe pair of hands”
  
  NZ debt to GDP increased from 5% in 2008 when Clark was PM, to the 23-25% it’s been for the past 4 years. So English is safe for whom? Those like South Canterbury Finance who were bailed out by us but should have been left to experience the consequences of their decisions?
  
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  December 8, 2016 11:07pm
infused

Good. Anyone else at this stage would have lost public support.
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December 8, 2016 1:24pm
Marty McFly

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The day National loses the unloseable election
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December 8, 2016 1:24pm
- infused
  
  get real. no one likes either of those others. you guys live in lala land.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:36pm
- UpandComer
  
  If you’re on the left, the hate sustains us.
  
  If you’re on the right, you too shall receive memes for cuckservative purgatory.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:04pm
  - deadrightkev
    
    Yes Bill is a cuck for sure that is the problem.
    
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    December 8, 2016 2:26pm
marquess

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Over without a fight – I wonder how rank-and-file nat members feel about not having a chance to properly discuss it with their local blue MP.

That’s to say nothing for Collins and Coleman, who must be fuming at not getting a chance to truly put forward their case. I do wonder how long this “cabinet unity” is going to last.
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December 8, 2016 1:26pm
- Salacious Crumb
  
  I wonder how voters feel about representatives of 15% of the work force having the final say in Labour policy and leadership?
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:32pm
  - speters
    
    What do the two have to do with each other? The quality of a party’s selection process is not relative to the quality of another’s.
    
    7 4
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    December 8, 2016 2:50pm
  - burt
    
    It’s 0.01% of the workforce that claim to represent 15% of the workforce the pick the Labour leader.
    
    1 0
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    December 9, 2016 7:05am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Don’t worry about it Jacinda, just get on with throwing your hat in the ring for Mt. Albert as you’ll never win Auckland Central.
  
  29 3
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  December 8, 2016 1:52pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  I discussed it with my MP on Monday Marquess.
  
  27 2
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  December 8, 2016 1:54pm
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    In the mirror ?
    
    5 38
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    December 8, 2016 2:44pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      No ZTev; by Facebook. I may be an Old Fart in my early 60’s, but I’m a big fan of social media 😀
      
      24 1
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      December 8, 2016 3:15pm
      - paul scott
        
        poor Trev, he never knows when he’s beaten.
        
        1 1
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        December 8, 2016 10:03pm
- scrubone
  
  “I wonder how rank-and-file nat members feel about not having a chance to properly discuss it with their local blue MP.”
  
  The rank and file members know what the system is. It may not be perfectly democratic, but it elects someone who has the confidence of the parliamentary part. It’s certainly better than the alternative, as experience has shown.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:57pm
- UpandComer
  
  Jacinda it’s a shame. But it’s not too late. You can avoid slowly morphing into Maryan Street. I know you know that social investment is the best thing a government has ever done. Embrace it, and the natural law, join Shane Jones and Shearer. Don’t turn into a lemon-harpy!
  
  28 1
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  December 8, 2016 2:13pm
  - alwyn
    
    I found you a picture of what she will become.
    I presume this is a “lemon-harpy”
    http://www.harpic.com.au/products/deep-clean/harpic-active-fresh-liquid/
    
    0 2
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    December 8, 2016 2:35pm
  - Paulus
    
    Never like Street – she was a Lesbian.
    Jacinda has a feller who presents on the tele – quite well.
    
    2 6
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    December 8, 2016 3:14pm
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  Feeling jealous are we?
  
  1 3
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  December 8, 2016 4:45pm
  - Sarkozygroupie
    
    Ooh I replied to the wrong comment. That was meant for Jacinda above.
    
    2 2
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    December 8, 2016 5:05pm
- thedavincimode
  
  The same way they’ve felt about it for the last 100 years idiot.
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:25pm
- Warren Murray
  
  Cabinet / caucus unity evaporated on Monday. It will only be restored by English maintaining Key’s popularity in opinion polls & we all know that won’t hold.
  
  Those who are in marginal seats and low on the list will do Collins’ bidding.
  
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  December 8, 2016 10:36pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

I still maintain, National and John Key missed a tremendous opportunity to finish Labour once for all. Any way congratulations to the English patient urrr…hmmm…I meant patient English…
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December 8, 2016 1:28pm
tas

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I am going to predict that a Bill English-led National will get less than 40% at the next election. (My reckoning: In 2002 English shed 9.57% from 1999 — from 30.50% to 20.93%. Key got 47.04% in 2014. So the same drop would be 37.47%.)
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December 8, 2016 1:28pm
- infused
  
  I doubt it will change. Bill is safe. NZ wants safe at the moment.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:37pm
  - deadrightkev
    
    NZ is getting more grease on the slippery slope. No change is not smart.
    
    2 25
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    December 8, 2016 2:34pm
- UpandComer
  
  Tas. When National win the election I am going to Meme you into cuck purgatory.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:43pm
  - tas
    
    I’m not saying National won’t win — they may or may not. English could govern with 40%, but he would need bigger coalition partners than he needs now.
    
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    December 8, 2016 7:18pm
- cmm
  
  It would be ridiculous to put that down to English.
  
  Auntie Helen had the good luck to he driving the bus during an international boom period (just leading up to GFC). People felt Ok about large spend-ups.
  
  Now people are far more fiscally conservative. The economy is a huge factor and English has proven to be a good pair of hands over the last 8 years.
  
  English might not have JK’s bbq factor, but he is highly capable and has a highly capable cabinet – especially compared with Andy, Jacinda and the “team”.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:06pm
  - Shazzadude
    
    Yeah, I felt in 2002 that English was just unlucky to be the one to have to take on Helen at the height of her popularity.
    
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    December 8, 2016 3:49pm
    - BlairM
      
      You’re joking. It was a bad year for National, but I’ll bet you Shipley still would have gotten 30% or so. English doesn’t get absolved from being tits at the job just because he faced a hard task.
      
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      December 8, 2016 4:52pm
  - tas
    
    cmm: Sure, in 2002 the tide was against National, but I think a competent leader would still have gotten over 25%. Instead Bill English got 21% — the worst result in National’s history. Three years earlier Jenny Shipley got 30% — the tide was definitely against her after 9 years in government, a leadership change, and the collapse of the coalition with Winston Peters.
    How can you explain dropping 9.5% from an already bad result without blaming the leader?
    
    I really hope I’m wrong, but I think English is a proven loser and 2017 is going to be an indecisive election.
    
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    December 8, 2016 7:06pm
- markm
  
  you forget that the National party has been polling well above Keys personal popularity.
  i.e a lot of people are supporting the party in spite of key not because of him.
  English is responsible for the great economic situation we are in so I think the polls might go up.
  One of us will be right
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:12pm
  - Unity
    
    I must correct you slightly MarkM. National have been doing so well because there is no viable alternative. Many people are very concerned at the divisive racist separatism that has grown markedly under Key’s watch. We actually have apartheid in this country now because special treatment based on race is apartheid. I’m a National Party member but I’m seriously considering giving my Party vote to NZ First in the next election. Not that I trust Winston but because he is the only one vowing to get rid of all race-based legislation. This country is going backwards on this issue. We should all be treated the same.
    
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    December 8, 2016 4:52pm
    - Dazzaman
      
      Rubbish….lol. Only bitter, geriatric, Timaru brylcreemers who got their whitebait spot stolen by a tar baby think that.
      
      4 4
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      December 8, 2016 7:08pm
    - GoVege
      
      It’s not the race based legislation that is the problem.
      It’s that the governing party are in cahoots with a racist, sexist party that claims gang membership is a “lifestyle choice”, and totally incompetent parents should have as many children as possible because “every child is a gift from God”.
      
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      December 8, 2016 9:13pm
      - Unity
        
        Yes, there is that as well, GoVege but what about all the special treatment based on race. Places on Council’s where they even have voting rights, lowering the bar for medical people for people with ‘special blood’, fees for training paid for the special people but not for others. Very undemocratic. And not to mention the giving away of so much of our country and beaches to these people. I could go on and on but if you haven’t noticed it then our country really is in trouble.
        
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        December 9, 2016 10:58pm
  - Gabby
    
    The polls won’t go up very mitch.
    
    1 1
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    December 8, 2016 6:54pm
  - tas
    
    I have also noticed that Key’s preferred PM rating has slipped and is below National’s support level.
    
    But preferred PM ratings don’t add up to 100%. Key (38%) is almost 4 times as popular as Little (10%), but National (48%) is less than 2 times as popular as Labour (27%). [Source: latest Curia polling newsletter.] So I wouldn’t read too much into preferred PM numbers.
    
    Bill English is a tried and tested loser. He dropped 9.5% from an already bad result in 2002. In contrast, 2014 was an excellent result and he only needs to drop 7% for my prediction to come true. It’s much easier to shed support when you are doing well than when you are doing poorly.
    
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    December 8, 2016 8:03pm
- Sideoiler
  
  I am going to predict that a Bill English-led National will get less than 40% at the next election.
  
  Then you will be wrong.
  
  I am going to predict that National are going to win enough seats to govern, Labour’s fortunes will not change markedly and Andrew little will get the arse after the election if not earlier.
  
  If another poll comes out after John Key has left and Andrew/Labour have not made significant gains then its all over for him.
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:03pm
  - tas
    
    I am going to predict that National are going to win enough seats to govern, Labour’s fortunes will not change markedly and Andrew little will get the arse after the election if not earlier.
    
    That is not inconsistent with my prediction. You can govern with 40% — Clark did with 41% after 2005. Labour are still a disaster and I doubt they will improve much over their previous result.
    
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    December 8, 2016 7:29pm
nasska

At least no one will be able to accuse National of relying on personality politics to win.
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December 8, 2016 1:29pm
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  No one can accuse Labour of that either! ?
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:51pm
Brigitte

Oh dear, I can see someone over at A Blog not being happy. How sad, never mind.
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December 8, 2016 1:29pm
- Random T Person
  
  Ha hahahahaa A Blog. Classic. Slater’s big shot at the prime time, over so soon.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:49pm
  - eandlbufe
    
    Used to read Slater but he has become so sour since Key stopped phoning. He lost out to Key now it looks like he has taken the knife to English, so sad. I would like to see Collins keep her present position but if she is trumped by English then I may go back to reading Slater. I don’t think English is as vindictive as Slater makes him out to be.
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:50pm
    - Happychappy
      
      The only reason he thinks English is vindictive is because the new PM has never given him any thing and is never likely to. John Key found out to late and was lucky he had the skill to dodge that bullet.
      
      6 0
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      December 8, 2016 7:34pm
- B.L.Zeebub
  
  Heh,Kanye Slater is biffing all his toys.
  His old man must have been slapped down hard by Boag for the endless vitriol he sends her way and she just laughs at him.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:45pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    lol “Kanye”.
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:28pm
  - altiora
    
    Probably, but then Boag is simply ghastly.
    
    6 1
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    December 8, 2016 7:56pm
- SteveRemmington
  
  Now its all over, all that can be said is that Blinglish obviously plays politics like Fijians play rugby. By smashing your face into the ground.”
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:04pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Apparently English is nasty and vindictive.
    
    Irony much?
    
    19 1
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    December 8, 2016 3:17pm
    - Random T Person
      
      And holds grudges for years and years. Gosh Slater’s hypocrisy has its own gravitational field.
      
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      December 8, 2016 3:25pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yep. isn’t one of Slater’s mottoes, “utu is good, even necessary”?
        
        Sore loser.
        
        21 1
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        December 8, 2016 3:53pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yes Slater is not happy now that Collins has gone.
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:13pm
- howitis
  
  I think the term is ‘spewing’.
  The Aussies use that so well
  
  Crawly Slater must be spewing with today’s outcome.
  Now he has signed people up instead of relying on advertising he may get away with the vitriol…. for a while
  
  With all this spewing he might need to be on a drip by 9pm to prevent dehydration.
  
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  December 8, 2016 7:00pm
Colville

Was this ever in question?

John Key has done succession planning and renewal superbly during his time in the Job. To think that He would leave without having the PM’s job sorted is just farcical IMHO.
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December 8, 2016 1:29pm
- Brigitte
  
  My thoughts exactly. And the timing – just before parliament rises for the year – is also likely to have been carefully planned.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:33pm
  - scrubone
    
    Well, one could equally say that it’d suck having to be PM over the break (and not be able to properly relax) only to give it up just after.
    
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    December 8, 2016 1:59pm
  - Flash
    
    And don’t forget Bennett being moved over to housing as English’s ‘assistant’.
    
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    December 8, 2016 2:13pm
- paul scott
  
  yes thats right Colville
  
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  December 8, 2016 10:14pm
deadrightkev

If Labour dump Little and install Nash they will win the next election. A charismatic change candidate will beat English no sweat. Nash should seize his chance.

Will they do it? Nope.

This is a great result really. English will do nothing and leave the next four years open to develop a strong Conservative Libertarian party and leader.
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December 8, 2016 1:33pm
- UpandComer
  
  We love you Uncle Kev.
  
  Kev just out of interest, who is your ideal leader? If you could pick president of the universe.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:50pm
  - greenjacket
    
    “Kev just out of interest, who is your ideal leader? If you could pick president of the universe.”
    Kev’s ideal leader is dead – he committed suicide in 1945.
    
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    December 8, 2016 4:25pm
  - eandlbufe
    
    He’d probably pick Trump, I would
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:55pm
  - paul scott
    
    DRK picked Trump didn’t he . Yes. Don’t know about the combination of Conservative and Libertarian though.
    
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    December 8, 2016 10:17pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  Nash? Have you seen the way he gets dismembered by Judith Collins every time he tries to land a hit on her?
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:18pm
  - Shazzadude
    
    Agreed, Nash would piss it in as some sort of Trudeau-type figure against English, but Labour will not do it, the caucus is more interested in it’s own internal games than actually winning.
    
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    December 8, 2016 3:52pm
  - Colville
    
    Yip Nash has everything a perfect politician has. Except for ability.
    Oh, or honesty.
    
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    December 8, 2016 3:59pm
  - Gabby
    
    You mean the way Hone’s bro colludes in turning question time into a farce? Letting vicious little oiks like Collinitis bitch and snipe like the scratchy little cats they are?
    
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    December 8, 2016 7:03pm
Milhous

Yeah, this is so so bad for the Nats.

Bloodless transition

Competent , respected PM.

50% in the polls

Economy growing, with budget balanced and room for electoral “options”.

Unemployment low
Wages up

Well funded Party
Very good ground game and party machine.

Pretty much scandal free.

A leader of the opposition who looks like and has the personality of a burst bag of chips.

An opposition where Jacinda Adern is considered a rising star!

A MOU amongst the opposition which is a major electoral drag.

also…
now doesn’t have some of the past electoral baggage that Key carried….superannuation, Peters etc.
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December 8, 2016 1:34pm
geoff3012

What they publicly say they are going to do and voting might be totally different….
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December 8, 2016 1:36pm
Rich Prick

See Labour, that’s how you elect a leader.
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December 8, 2016 1:41pm
- marquess
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Without an election?!
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:46pm
  - UpandComer
    
    No you know, just where the people in the party vote for the guy, not the shitlord special interests alone.
    
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    December 8, 2016 1:49pm
    - marquess
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Shitlord special interests, lol.
      
      I’m not sure that having people in cabinet vote for the leader is the same as people in the party vote. You know, the locals. The tireless volunteers who maintain hoardings, look after offices, and all the other outreach, invaluable stuff that party members get done. Maybe they’d like a chance to actually talk to their MP and sway their vote.
      
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      December 8, 2016 1:57pm
      - UpandComer
        
        Unions are special interests 🙂 Labour is the ‘protected class’ party. SJW convergence in action! Jacinda you’re too good for them. Don’t merge with the left’s Borg. Be based. Yes having a 6 month primary where DeadRightKev decides the leader is laudable as is the remainder of your trite rhetoric, but it’s not elitist to have a caucus who has to work with a person actually choose someone they like. That’s the basis of representative democracy, as to opposed to referenda by issue. For example, you’d be a better leader then Andrew Little, and yet you’re not allowed because the special interests as Trump said can call him up and go “bing bing, bom bom bom, you know what that is!”.
        
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        December 8, 2016 2:17pm
      - Than
        
        Except of course Labour party members don’t get a meaningful vote. They get to participate in a farcical parody of democracy where a special interest group is explicitly granted a large chunk of the vote; a large enough chunk to be decisive in all but the most one-sided elections. For all intents and purposes Labour party member votes in the leadership selection mean exactly diddly squat.
        
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        December 8, 2016 2:22pm
      - Swifty
        
        No, they have elected the MPs to represent them on this and other decisions.
        
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        December 8, 2016 3:49pm
      - greenjacket
        
        marquess: “You know, the locals. The tireless volunteers who maintain hoardings, look after offices, and all the other outreach, invaluable stuff that party members get done. Maybe they’d like a chance to actually talk to their MP and sway their vote.”
        Yeah – like in Hutt South, where the local Labour members selected Campbell Barry.
        
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        December 8, 2016 4:29pm
      - Sarkozygroupie
        
        This is a sitting government as you well know. There is considerable precedent in NZ that a Prime Minister may change mid term without holding an election. Your own Geoffrey Palmer as Deputy PM replaced PM David Lange when he resigned mid term.
        
        Jacinda do yourself a favour and stop trying to pretend there has been some kind of undemocratic coup that has disenfranchised party members. You are looking increasingly childish.
        
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        December 8, 2016 5:45pm
      - RF
        
        Why do members of this blog believe that marquess is our Jacinda.
        
        Surely you jest. Our marquess is far too intelligent as well as being able to string several words together in one sentence. Something that is beyond the grasp of my little pony.
        
        Marquess is taking the piss.
        
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        December 8, 2016 7:26pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Maybe they’d like a chance to actually talk to their MP and sway their vote.
        
        I don’t know what the Labour Party is like Marquess, but in National we DO have a chance to talk to our MP and share our opinion with them. And by and large, they listen.
        
        I contacted my MP on Monday night, and was reassured when he told me who he would be supporting. He also commented that the phone had rung off the hook all day with constituents and party members contacting him.
        
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        December 9, 2016 7:38am
  - Sideoiler
    
    Without an election?!
    
    No, without stabbing some poor fuck in the back.
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:08pm
  - ztev
    
    Without an election?!
    
    Naturally, thats how the politburo used to do it.
    
    Baubles traded, hem kissed and lo behold the cardinal of karori is the new leader of the politburo.
    
    We will see who is sent to the Gulag in a week or two
    
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    December 8, 2016 9:02pm
    - paul scott
      
      Finlayson we wish first to the Gulag. Woodhouse to the gulag second . It would help to offset the NZ First vote.
      
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      December 8, 2016 10:24pm
- deadrightkev
  
  Really? Bill English is the next new thing to transform NZ into a powerhouse economy?
  
  He is our next Sir Roger Douglas or Donald Trump?
  
  Sorry, but you have set the bar a little low.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:52pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    How’s Colin Craig doing these days DRK, apart from being declared a vexacious litigant by a High Court Judge?
    
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    December 8, 2016 1:55pm
    - deadrightkev
      
      Ask him KS.
      
      What Colin has to do with me other than I supported him when he was CP leader I don’t know. He is a genuine guy who put his money where his mouth is and should be lauded for that. Most sycophants on KB would not know what having a go feels like.
      
      Surely you can challenge my comments about National with something more relevant and less squirrel like? I am always spoiled for choice with National.
      
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      December 8, 2016 2:15pm
      - thedavincimode
        
        He is a genuine guy
        
        Too easy. Idiot.
        
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        December 8, 2016 5:40pm
  - UpandComer
    
    Kevo
    
    We’re getting there. So your man would be an amalgam of Roger Douglas and Donald Trump? Who else.
    
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    December 8, 2016 2:18pm
infused

Funny thing is, Bill in person is pretty damm funny when he wants to be. I went to one lunch event with him and was very surprised. Totally different to whats on tv.
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December 8, 2016 1:45pm
Unity

It will be interesting to see if this assumption is correct. So far all the polls around the world have been wrong. Let’s see if we are the exception.
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December 8, 2016 1:46pm
- deadrightkev
  
  English will romp in.
  
  No one else put their hand up and acted courageously with voters, tell them what they stood for and why they were different.
  
  Collins says no tax cuts so that was her dead for me.
  
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  December 8, 2016 1:59pm
Jigsaw

What a shame -shows that party are really conservative – afraid of change and the poor not to say dangerous racial policies they have been following will continue and perhaps even get worse.
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December 8, 2016 1:54pm
- scrubone
  
  Perhaps you could formulate your thoughts a little less obliquely.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:01pm
- deadrightkev
  
  National are mundane, progressive and separatist to a fault.
  
  Nothing will change under English because his support does not have the spine to stand up and challenge him on a new platform of reforms.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:07pm
waikatosinger

Congratulations Bill. Should be great.
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December 8, 2016 1:58pm
Aliog

I’m delighted – Bill is a safe pair of hands, with a sparkle of humour when he relaxes, and he will keep the momentum going. Collins is electoral poison, and I’m sure Coleman is a splendid fellow but he’s also splendidly invisible.
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December 8, 2016 1:59pm
MGT

When was the last time that Bill English appeared in a Preferred PM poll?
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December 8, 2016 1:59pm
Keeping Stock

I think it’s fantastic that this has all been resolved so quickly and publicly. Hearty congratulations to Hon Bill English.

What I would like to see now though is Judith Collins put her name forward to serve as Prime Minister English’s deputy. She would have the opportunity to prove she can be a team player, and position herself to assume the role of Leader of the National Party when Bill English eventually retires.
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December 8, 2016 2:05pm
- deadrightkev
  
  Now we can get to work making the little country that could really great again because English has all of the skills to transform NZ into a dynamic powerhouse – said no one ever.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:11pm
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    That was Keys mantra too- catch up with Australia, make us into the financial capital of the pacific…
    all we got was some cycle ways and lame attempt to change the flag that he was too lazy to go and push for.
    
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    December 8, 2016 2:48pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I understand that you benefit from those cycle lanes Trevor, in the form hugging lycra. ugh, shudder
      
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      December 8, 2016 3:54pm
    - Swifty
      
      Yeah, just like Clark’s goal to be in the top half of the OECD. How did she go with that? In booming economic times. Unlike the situation Key found himself in…….
      
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      December 8, 2016 3:54pm
- Swifty
  
  My thoughts too KS.
  
  Let JC prove herself through the deputy role, as Bill has done these last 8 years.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:51pm
- SPC
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features-pre-2016/document/00NZPHomeNews201308271/the-honourable-and-the-right-honourable
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:09pm
mikenmild

I did predict that English would be elected unopposed.
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December 8, 2016 2:07pm
- Swifty
  
  Well done Mike.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:55pm
Stars And Stripes

Hell I can barely contain my excitement.
Not everyday you find a candidate like English who cuts such a dashing figure and just electrifies the room with their larger than life personality.
I nearly fell asleep just writing this.
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December 8, 2016 2:10pm
- Manolo
  
  Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:13pm
- UpandComer
  
  Obama was a real personality Stars 😉 I’ve always known you were an Obama supporter undercover!
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:23pm
Surely Knott

Great. English will be good as Prime Minister, a safe pair of hands. I’ll be voting for him much better than the alternative party options. I think we should get behind him 100% and not have the same division we did with the Auckalnd Mayoralty. Congratulations Mr English. Looking forward to you as the next PM.
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December 8, 2016 2:21pm
rangitoto

Hang on. The unions haven’t made their decision yet. Oh sorry that’s that other party.
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December 8, 2016 2:22pm
RRM

He deserves a Knighthood for keeping the country afloat since 2008.

As a consolation prize, he gets the near-constant abuse from all sides that comes with being PM.
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December 8, 2016 2:22pm
- MGT
  
  but now we have to contend with Joyce as Finance Minister…
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:45pm
flipper

Dream on dickheads. The biggest loser in all 0f this is resident (apparently, anway) in the Howick area if Auckland. The toys have already been thrown from the cot It appears that the pieces of the cot will be next. Time to take a cold shower …… No?
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December 8, 2016 2:22pm
BlairM

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Utter madness. The National caucus just committed suicide, wrecked a perfectly adequate government, and lost the next election.

Bill English is a loser, and he will drag National back to opposition and deliver us the nastiest, most deranged Labour government you’ve ever seen.

And don’t think Labour won’t regroup after this. I put Angry Andy’s odds of survival at very low. I doubt he will lead Labour into the next election. When Key was PM, there was no point in rolling him, but now the red team can smell blood and will want someone more worthy in the job.
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December 8, 2016 2:44pm
- Manolo
  
  @BlairM: Those of us who still remember English’s abysmal performance of early 2000’s, do hope you are completely and utterly wrong! 🙂
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:58pm
  - BlairM
    
    Me too. Though honestly, I think English will be a shit PM whether he wins or not.
    
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    December 8, 2016 3:08pm
    - Sideoiler
      
      @ Blair, so who do you see as the answer?
      Because it is not Judith.
      
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      December 8, 2016 5:15pm
      - BlairM
        
        As I have said, I don’t like Judith Collins. I think she is a weasel with a thin skin, and a poacher who all too easily likes to turn gamekeeper. I’m amazed at how many people think she is some sort of staunch right winger. If anything, Collins is more in the mould of a John Key ideologically, and would probably govern that way.
        
        But you know what? She is decisive, strong and courageous as a politician, and doesn’t mind being unpopular or having enemies. Those are all qualities that English is sorely lacking in. She is a leader – English is not. She also has a palpable charisma, which English does not. She is capable of rallying party activists behind her – nobody gets excited about English. In short, she is someone who can win elections, and we already know that English has a track record of failure at that.
        
        You may not think she is the answer, but I would like to see National get a fourth term, and they are much less likely to get one under English than Collins. That’s an answer enough for me.
        
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        December 8, 2016 5:37pm
      - Sideoiler
        
        @ Blair thank you for addressing my question.
        Like you I also want to see a fourth term but I am concerned that Bill is more of the same, and is not likely to frighten the horses.
        
        As far as Joe average goes ( someone that gets his/her information from MSM) that is not an entirely bad thing.
        Don’t for get we are not voting National we are voting to keep the other bastards out
        
        I was rather looking forward to the move to the right Collins as PM may have bought about.
        
        Her performance re Orivida and Adam Feely demonstrates a lack of judgement that excludes her from the the highest office and that in my opinion is a shame.
        
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        December 8, 2016 8:51pm
- James Stephenson
  
  Not really, Winston was always going to be kingmaker, he’ll just have more clout now.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:11pm
waripori

English reminds me of John Howard. Failed opposition leader, Treasurer, time in the Wilderness and then one of Australia’s best Prime Ministers. No one ever accused him of being exciting but I bet Australians would love him back given the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd, Abbot,Turnbull fiascos.
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December 8, 2016 2:46pm
- speters
  
  Good comparison. I think English’s past failure as leader is more or less meaningless at this point. I’m no National supporter but I think he’ll do very well and is easily the safest choice at this point – and a safe choice is what National need given Labour can be relied on to lose the election by themselves
  
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  December 8, 2016 2:59pm
- BlairM
  
  Howard had a backbone and took risks. English is a jellyfish who’s never done anything politically risky or polarising in his long, sad life.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:58pm
DifferentPerspective

National completes transformation into Democrat party

I just don’t understand how a party can have watched what is going on around the world today and repeat the stupid mistakes they’ve seen:

1) The presumptive candidates at the start of the year in the US were Jeb and Hillary. Their defining characteristic was they were totally unappealing to the voters (English has already demonstrated this in 2002).

3) The candidates the media loves are the ones the electorate rejects – the MSM has been practically falling over themselves to annoint BE. If there is anything you can take for granted it is that what the media want is bad for the country.

The 2017 election has changed from a ‘sure thing’ to a race to the bottom now.

This appointment will bounce NZ First’s vote by a few percent.

Still English will remember the taste of the dead rats in 1996 – he’s still probably picking the fur out of his teeth now.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear – National what have you done?

2) The political pendulum has shifted sharply away from PC, virtue-signalling identity politics and to border integrity, national pride, fairness and a rejection of the status quo (English is the ultimate Wellington insider – there isn’t a more ‘status quo’ candidate)
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December 8, 2016 3:02pm
- UpandComer
  
  Yes, because New Zealand, = the United States!
  
  This comment shows all the awesome judgment of Labour running Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sander’s platforms. You know, because New Zealand is actually those countries.
  
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  December 8, 2016 11:46pm
James Stephenson

Oh, and I think Judith would look good in yellow.
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December 8, 2016 3:15pm
BlairM

I think part of the problem is that almost none of the current National MPs were in caucus under Bill English’s leadership, and most of those that were are his old allies. They weren’t there to see how shit he was the first time. They’ve only seen what a competent finance minister he is. They are going to be in for a rude awakening.
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December 8, 2016 3:18pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  English had a whole lot of things conspire against him in 2002 Blair. Yes; he wasn’t a dynamic leader, but that was just the tip of the iceberg.
  
  14 years on he is older, wiser, the kids have grown up, and most importantly, he has had eight years of working closely with John Key, and watching Key’s leadership style. I predict English c2016 will be a very different proposition to the 2002 version.
  
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  December 8, 2016 3:32pm
  - s.russell
    
    Also, Bill the PM is a very different prospect than Bill the Leader of the Opposition. He would probably still be a weak Leader of the Opposition, but the common sense and solidity that made him uninspiring in that role makes him stronger as a PM.
    
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    December 8, 2016 4:21pm
    - SPC
      
      I agree, the problem will be the campaigning. But he will find it easier defending a proven record than posing as the peoples champion.
      
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      December 8, 2016 4:58pm
  - BlairM
    
    LOL, well Hillary spent eight years watching Bill, how did that work out for her? English is still the same guy. He’s still the ditherer from Dipton. He’s a competent finance minister, and a great attack dog in the House, but he has no charisma, and no leadership skills, which are more instinctive than learned. And things are not as rosy as so many in National and on this blog assume. We are nearing the end of three terms of National. The public were willing to humour this tired government under Key – they will not be so tolerant under anyone else, let alone Bill English, Mr 21%, who in 2002 turned a merely difficult year for National into an utter rout.
    
    I fail to see how English will be any more dynamic now than he was then, or that National, at the tail end of three terms, will have any more of a different result now than then.
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:14pm
Shazzadude

I have a feeling “don’t know/unsure” is going to poll very highly for preferred PM soon.
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December 8, 2016 3:57pm
Paulus Gnome

Go Bill!
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December 8, 2016 3:58pm
- James Stephenson
  
  I reckon you’ve missed a comma between those two words.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:18pm
flipper

The heavyweight bout is over with a TKO to the person most deserving of the win.
My extended family still “grieves” for J Key. Subconsciously I always knew that J Key would move on one day (I thort in about 2 years) since he has been the target of pernicious and false attacks for the past 10-11 years (back to the H fee efforts by a bastard who escaped being hung out to dry by a compliant media and Clark). Moreover J Key did NOT need a Prime Ministerial salary and perks.

I think it is a mark of the man that he goes next week when Nats are polling 50 % …. not when there is a slump in support and his successor is left with an uphill battle.

The bullshit MSM and a few others will try and spin this as a gift to Labour. But Bill English and Joyce (Finance?) will have a budget next year to cement in another three years. Having had several one on ones with him away from the Beehive I know that Bill English is both a serious player, and a very good guy. It is bloody hard to try to emulate J Key when you are his deputy.

I cannot envisage an early election because it appears there will be a substantial budget surplus to spend (wisely, not on silly new policies) in the 2017 budget. Moreover, why help a broke Labour when they may face another by-election before next September/October?

I lived in hope that the Caucus would be sensible and would not be attracted to a false prophet. My prayer was answered.
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December 8, 2016 4:00pm
- Kimbo
  
  Will be interesting to see how the National caucus fares now. Seems the most potentially divisive situation since Marshall and Muldoon faced off for Holyoake’s crown in 1972, and then the aftermath – election loss, and nearly two years before Muldoon had the numbers. As with Marshall and Muldoon, English and Collins seem chalk and cheese in terms of personality, style, philosophy and even policies. Sure, there have been other leadership changes in National since then, and all of them up to Key’s rolling of Brash involved a plot and replacement – but they were all pragmatic based on “who is likely to win us the next election”.
  
  I have a feeling Collins, like Muldoon in 1972, has not given up on leadership ambitions.
  
  On second thoughts there was the late 1980s/early 1990s with Ricahrdson at one extreme, Peters, waging a constant self-promotion effort on the other, and Bolger in between, who was only elected and then stayed in office because the 4th Labour Government imploded and the Labour Party, as well as the Alliance splitters continued to engage in civil war until 1996.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:13pm
soundhill1

If we get another quake will the insurance money coming in to NZ help to reduce the astronomical rate of rise in core Crown debt that started with National’s election in 2008 and was slowed slightly by the Christchurch quake?

From 2004 to 2008, Labout decreased the debt from 23 billion to 10 billion. From 2008 to 2011 National increased the debt from that 10 billion to 40 billion. Then after the quake there was a slower but still substantial climb to 55 billion by 2013.

I think Key has been finding it harder to borrow for a brighter future again.

There won’t be money for Little or English to buy favour.

http://users.snap.net.nz/~bsandle/net_core_crown_debt.jpg
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December 8, 2016 4:08pm
- greenjacket
  
  soundhill: “From 2004 to 2008, Labout decreased the debt from 23 billion to 10 billion. From 2008 to 2011 National increased the debt from that 10 billion to 40 billion.”
  Labour had a significant and growing structural deficit in 2008, and that was before the GFC. The debt was already on a sharply upwards trajectory when National took power.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:36pm
  - soundhill1
    
    greenjacket what Labour was doing was living within our means to retain our sovereignty.
    
    Your term “structural debt” implies we should borrow more to subsidise oil companies through roading.
    
    There are other types of structure – smart structure like graphene solar power, which however isolate centralised energy companies from so much profit.
    
    Bridges would tax solar power and continue to subsidise oil exploration, and get us further in debt and less able to go our own smart ways.
    
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    December 8, 2016 4:45pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Christ, what a propeller-head.
      
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      December 8, 2016 7:33pm
      - soundhill1
        
        “what a propeller-head”
        graphene is quite an investment opportunity already.
        New light bulbs and solar panels have reduced power company profits. The power companies complain they need more money for the wiring. But part of the cost is having to put in thicker wires. Solar electricity can reduce that. Especially with the new storage batteries. And more power will be needed for electric vehicles.
        I think it is wrong to be subsidising oil exploration while penalising solar power.
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/300397/new-solar-panel-charge-kicks-in
        
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        December 8, 2016 11:07pm
s.russell

So who will be deputy? It seems to me that Bennett has two huge advantages over Bridges:
1) She provides gender balance in the top team
2) She is an Aucklander
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December 8, 2016 4:25pm
- Sideoiler
  
  So who will be deputy?
  
  It is looking like Joyce,Bill wants him for finance minister so is likely to be deputy PM.
  
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  December 8, 2016 9:11pm
Inandout

If Angry was a dour funeral director, then Bill would be the corpse, such is his personality. Bide your time Judith, for when the wheels start falling off next year you will be in a good position to take over. Nothing motivates an MP as the fear of losing their seat.
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December 8, 2016 4:33pm
- Gabby
  
  Time’s running out. Those eyebrows aren’t getting any saner.
  
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  December 9, 2016 8:06am
SPC

If the case was for Bill English to seek a mandate in 2017 to complete the course already set out for 2020, and then hand over to a new leader in 2019, it is no surprise he won this pretty early.

The only questions are with the budget balanced and a schedule for paying down debt to 20% by 2020 – what then is left for tax cuts or infrastructure spending (including new housing development) or health and education. A balance of the three has been suggested by Collins and Coleman.
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December 8, 2016 4:48pm
- soundhill1
  
  In other words Collins and Coleman want to sell up. Then instead of paying tax to be administered democratically we pay higher charges for education to private concerns and lose the ability to do what does not produce an immediate payoff.
  
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  December 8, 2016 4:55pm
  - SPC
    
    It is simply a fact that one cannot continue to borrow for infrastructure if one is to reach the 20% of GDP debt target by 2020 – from 2020 it has to come from budget surpluses. This could place pressure on funding for health and education – a concern for Coleman.
    
    In that sense both are saying, in that light tax cuts have to measured carefully – so they are sustainable post 2020.
    
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    December 8, 2016 5:03pm
    - soundhill1
      
      “sustainable” meaning continuing to sustain corporate profit?
      
      0 9
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      December 8, 2016 5:18pm
      - ztev
        
        The budget is NOT balanced. Surplus is just an accounting term in this context.
        They are still borrowing $6 bill Plus per year, so no paying down debt if the amount borrowed increases
        
        3 19
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        December 8, 2016 6:04pm
nasska

…..”A souffle doesn’t rise twice “…..

Paul Keating
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December 8, 2016 4:50pm
greenjacket

On Bill English – as leader of the opposition he led a very tired, fractious and dispirited opposition against Helen Clark at the top of her game. He got trounced when a lot of National leaning voters split to NZFirst (11%), Act (7%) and United Future (7%) in the belief that it would be the best way to stop Labour. However, a lot of people saw the real Bill English in the immediate aftermath of the election defeat, which he approached with dignity, humour and courage. So don’t underestimate Bill English’s political skills or temperament.
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December 8, 2016 4:52pm
- BlairM
  
  Ah so he’s a good loser then?
  
  Thanks a lot, I feel SO much better now…
  
  3 17
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  December 8, 2016 5:17pm
  - Happychappy
    
    People learn from their mistakes and English learn’t the hard way. So lets be fair he is a quality MP that has seen NZ through one of its toughest times in history and with John Key made us better for it.Take time to ponder and ask your self if Andrew Little and Grant Robertson had been in that situation could they have achieved the same.
    
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    December 8, 2016 8:01pm
- SPC
  
  A factor, one John Key was very well aware of, was that Shipley’s inflation adjusted super had a legacy in the 1999 and 2002 votes.
  
  He put that to rest with his reassurances on super and the boomers are now a support base for National.
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:18pm
  - BlairM
    
    Oh my God! I’ve heard some excuses for English on this site, but that one is an absolute howler! It was all Shipley’s fault! Of course!
    
    Come on man, English is a dud. Everybody knows it, but denial is more than just a river in Egypt, it’s endemic on Kiwiblog, and I see it with every downtick on my comments.
    
    3 16
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    December 8, 2016 5:25pm
    - SPC
      
      No one has taken on the over 65’s before and won – and it is now even harder with boomers so numerous. Shipley made National unelectable, Key fixed it.
      
      8 0
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      December 8, 2016 5:41pm
      - Inandout
        
        Prime Minister John Key has said he would rather retire than touch Super. He is retiring next year.
        
        7 0
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        December 8, 2016 6:09pm
    - Manolo
      
      Not from some of us, readers, BlairM. I do read your comments without feeling the need to downtick.
      
      5 0
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      December 8, 2016 5:57pm
    - UpandComer
      
      Blair what happened. Did he ignore a ‘great’ idea of yours, or sth?
      
      3 5
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      December 8, 2016 6:48pm
      - BlairM
        
        I’ve never met the man, or had a conversation with him. I’m sure he’s a lovely fellow, but he’s not much of a party leader.
        
        0 0
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        December 9, 2016 7:09am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And there’s another downtick, as well-deserved as all the others.
      Idiot.
      
      8 3
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      December 8, 2016 7:36pm
      - BlairM
        
        The truth is a bitch, Captain…
        
        0 3
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        December 9, 2016 7:12am
Michael

So Bill English is going to be the next PM ,no surprises there. Will National win the next election? Almost certainly, IMO,but Winston will be wanting a place in cabinet, deputy PM perhaps, or maybe Minister of Finance. Labour have got no show and nor have the Greens.
Had Winston Peters stayed with National who knows what might have happened? He might have been Prime Minister instead of John Key.
7 3
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December 8, 2016 5:03pm
Reid

I wonder how he’ll do facing the crisis Key didn’t want to face?

Should be interesting.
3 7
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December 8, 2016 5:11pm
- mikenmild
  
  Which crisis would that be?
  
  8 1
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  December 8, 2016 5:13pm
  - Reid
    
    Something none of us living have ever seen, mm.
    
    1 7
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    December 8, 2016 5:29pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Don’t be coy – do tell.
      
      9 1
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      December 8, 2016 5:36pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    Wouldn’t you like to know.
    
    Let’s just say that … err … umm … well, never you mind you’ll find out soon enough!
    
    11 0
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    December 8, 2016 5:33pm
- SPC
  
  Which one?
  
  No TPP, globalisation no longer ascendant?
  
  Brexit/Trump world? EU crisis and POTUS unilateralism?
  
  Rising interest rates and the impact on recent home buyers?
  
  Dependence on economic growth from population increase – and post 2020 having to afford the infrastructure spending to accommodate this out of budget surplus or compromise the 20% debt target said to be necessary to afford the promise to do nothing on super?
  
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  December 8, 2016 5:33pm
  - Reid
    
    There is another GFC coming SPC, one that will be irrecoverable from with our global economy in its present form, but I’m not referring to that. It’s worse than that.
    
    0 14
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    December 8, 2016 6:19pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Oh do tell, I so love doomsayers:
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_of_the_end_of_the_world
      
      7 0
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      December 8, 2016 7:24pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        That must be like the crash EAD was predicting for Spetember 2015. Didn’t happen. Didn’t happen in September 2016 either.
        
        10 1
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        December 8, 2016 7:58pm
BlairM

If English is smart, he will go to the country early, perhaps in mid February or so. He will still catch Angry Andy as Labour leader, he can do it under the guise of seeking a fresh mandate, people will still remember the warm glow of the John Key years, and he won’t have had time to mess things up. The longer he leaves it, the harder it will get for him. But that would be expecting decisiveness, bravery and foresight from him, which we all know he is a stranger to.
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December 8, 2016 5:21pm
- NK
  
  Steven Joyce has ruled out an early election.
  
  8 0
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  December 8, 2016 5:30pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    Neville Little will be relieved his bluff wasn’t called.
    
    8 0
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    December 8, 2016 5:38pm
  - BlairM
    
    Oh, Steven ruled it out? Well that’s that then! *rolls eyes*
    
    0 1
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    December 9, 2016 7:15am
NK

It’s interesting to see all the support for Judith Collins here, but she’ll never be PM nor Deputy as long as Caucus decides those. So you had all better get used to it.
8 4
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December 8, 2016 5:33pm
- Inandout
  
  Caucus may well decide on Judith next year, so we had better get used to it.
  
  6 2
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  December 8, 2016 6:11pm
  - Sideoiler
    
    Caucus may well decide on Judith next year, so we had better get used to it
    
    And all pigs have been preflighted and are ready for takeoff.
    
    If she was going to be PM she would be now, even if Bill makes a balls of it Judith won’t get picked.
    
    3 1
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    December 8, 2016 9:18pm
- AgentBallSack
  
  I wouldn’t vote for a National Party that has Collins as Deputy or Leader. The woman is poison. She may be an effective minister but she is despised by a lot of Kiwis. She shows all the hallmarks of a psychopath. The boss that you breathed a sigh of relief when you were finally fired.
  
  9 4
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  December 8, 2016 7:19pm
  - BlairM
    
    Yes, but she’s despised by all the right ones. And has there ever been a successful politician without some sort of psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies? I’d argue that they’re necessary to even function in politics.
    
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    December 9, 2016 7:24am
    - Gabby
      
      Well you would, wouldn’t you.
      
      1 1
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      December 9, 2016 7:45am
- BlairM
  
  It’s like that old Adlai Stevenson quote where he was told “all thinking people are with you”. “Yes, but I need a majority”, he replied. Probably applies all too well to the National Party caucus. But we will see.
  
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  December 9, 2016 7:18am
thedavincimode

So the coalman is out. Looking forward to the racist twyford spinning this. The “lid’s blown off the National caucus” soon to be switched to “English opposition brutally crushed in facist Nat caucus”. thurrp.
9 1
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December 8, 2016 5:37pm
tom hunter

Sigh

Heard him on the radio today and it sounded as hesitant as ever. Knows what he’s talking about but … he dies… does …. have a tendency to…. to… to struggle to get… his point… ac…ross…. clearly and … and concisely.

A few Lefty’s (one moron here on KB in particular) had some fun with Key’s NewZild mashing of syllables, but he sounded fluent in a way that English just does not. It’s weird because he’s pretty fluent in the house: thoughtful rather than quick on his feet. Let’s hope he does better this time around, although it would be hard to do worse.

I do get the same feeling I had with Hillary Clinton though. She had a huge fail in a campaign in 2008 – and learned nothing from it for 2016.
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December 8, 2016 5:50pm
- nasska
  
  A few minor deficiencies like communication & an ability to connect with the electorate won’t worry the religio/conservatives so well represented on this forum Tom. They have their champion installed.
  
  Rather it is all about sweet Baby Jesus & the teachings of the Mother Church. Abortion will be once again performed in back alleys with coathangers, the pill & prophylactics will somehow be outlawed while same sex marriages will be arbitrarily annulled.
  
  Old & sick people will continue to die screaming rather than be allowed to terminate their lives. The Catholic church will once again dictate how everyone lives & dies.
  
  It won’t happen overnight but it will happen.
  
  1 16
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  December 8, 2016 7:54pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Too pessimistic, nasska. Just because Bill English would personally endorse inflicting that suffering does not mean it will happen.
    
    4 3
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    December 8, 2016 7:58pm
    - nasska
      
      He appoints the ministers Mike & I don’t think much of the chances of having social liberals in key portfolios.
      
      0 6
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      December 8, 2016 8:01pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I think his Catholicism probably only extends to having a large family and voting the Papal line on ‘conscience’ issues. I don’t see him as a morals zealot.
      
      11 1
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      December 8, 2016 8:09pm
big bruv

So it looks like we are going to have to suffer more years of that idiot Nick Smith now.
5 2
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December 8, 2016 8:09pm
KevinH

Little was on RNZ this morning and he was absolutely gushing about the Roskill win.
He said that Labour were ready and waiting for a snap election should Bill English call one because Little believes that the electorate needs to confirm the change in PM.
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December 8, 2016 8:17pm
- jude
  
  Labour are broke. I think National under Bill English will wisely use the time to reshuffle and stabilise the party.
  I for one do hope Judith Collins is in cabinet. She deserves to be.
  
  5 1
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  December 8, 2016 9:27pm
- jude
  
  Labour are broke. I think National under Bill English will wisely use the time to reshuffle and stabilise the party.
  I for one do hope Judith Collins is in cabinet. She deserves to be.
  The MSM and left are doing their level best to say there is a crisis within National.
  I think voters who are a little skittish over Brexit and Trump probably are more than happy with stability for another year.
  
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  December 8, 2016 9:31pm
- BlairM
  
  Little is gagging for a snap election. He will be worried that if he has to wait until next November, caucus will ambush him. Whereas if it is in February, he will rate his chances, though of course, few others will.
  
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  December 9, 2016 7:27am
smttc

All you anti English gloomy bums need to get over yourselves.

He has been a fantastic finance minister. The economy, the only thing which really matters, is in great shape. World class.

This is 2016. Not 2002.

He is the logical choice to see off Labour and Andrew Little in 2017. Hopefully also that c**t Winston Peters.

Stop being so f**kin petulant.
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December 8, 2016 9:06pm
- New Zealand Last
  
  It may interest you to know that Bill English has refused to rule out working together with that c**t Winston Peters.
  
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  December 9, 2016 2:55am
- BlairM
  
  “This is 2016. Not 2002.”
  
  There is no more concise argument as to why Bill English should not have been made leader! However, you’re right – not much can be done about it now. You lot bought this turd, have fun polishing it 😉
  
  1 2
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  December 9, 2016 7:34am
Manolo

How many more years of incompetent Blue-Green Nick Smith does NZ deserve? He could be minister forever.
5 1
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December 8, 2016 9:22pm
- AgentBallSack
  
  You measure your success by the amount of enemies you have.
  Smith is another the media love to hate. Wonder why?
  
  3 2
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  December 8, 2016 9:31pm
  - BlairM
    
    Oh bless. Yes indeed, it is good to have enemies, but generally it’s an issue of quality before quantity. If EVERYBODY hates you, chances are you’re doing something wrong. Or in Smith’s case, nothing at all. For twenty-six looooong years….
    
    1 0
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    December 9, 2016 7:41am
Warren Murray

When English gave up his electorate to be a list MP, I thought he was edging for the door.

He won’t help National win the next election.

The economy might, though.
2 1
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December 8, 2016 10:47pm
- Inandout
  
  That was the most important clue he was easing himself away from politics, and he has been quoted as saying he would definitely not stand for leader, ever. Key’s bailing must have engendered some absolute backroom panic, and leaders chosen in that environment can only lead to failure. We now have a PM with even less charisma than Little.
  
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  December 9, 2016 7:50am

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