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January 10, 2017 12:00pm by David Farrar

A reminder of why Islamic State must be defeated

If you need a reminder of why Islamic State must be defeated, just read this story.

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International Politics
Islamic State

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Comments (110)

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Manolo

Will our multiculturalist and Muslim apologist disagree?
23 4
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January 10, 2017 12:11pm
cmm

Yes, ISIS are evil. No doubt about that.

But the MSM are really trying to put all the focus on them: that ISIS are the bad apples in otherwise wonderful barrel that is Islam.

Nope. This story could have come from just about anywhere Muslims run into conflict with others: Nigeria, South Sudan, Horn of Africa,…

It is completely naive to think it will be all butterflies and poetry if/when ISIS are defeated.
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January 10, 2017 12:13pm
- SPC
  
  Na, any other Islamist group like them simply signed up as an affiliate when al Qaeda in Iraq formed Islamic State.
  
  The next worst a holes, al Qaeda in Syria proferred themselves as acceptable to the West (and received support from the Gulf and Turkey) simply because they were not as extremist as Islamic State (were not taking non Moslem females as sex slaves etc). And with them al Qaeda in general – and affiliates who blow up non Sunni Moslems and Christians in Pakistan etc.
  
  So you are very much wrong.
  
  The next worst are the nation state Islamists those seeking to takeover government or those already in power – Saudi Arabia, Hamas, Iran, Hizbollah.
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:25pm
- eandlbufe
  
  As long as there is a Koran there will be an ISIS, just as long as there is a Bible there will be a Christian or Judaism. I would just rather have the latter as they are not so eager to separate my head from the rest of my torso.
  
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  January 10, 2017 6:31pm
greenjacket

Let’s not forget that Andrew Little opposes joining the coalition fighting ISIS, and that he has committed to withdrawing NZ support for the campaign against ISIS.
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January 10, 2017 12:15pm
- cmm
  
  To an extent Little is right, but not the way he thinks he is…
  
  ISIS is just currently the biggest snake on the Medusa head that is Islam. Chop ISIS off and another immediately comes up in its place.
  
  It has always been that way and always will. Jihad is in their religion – it is in their blood. The only reason they were “reasonable” in the past was their lack of resources. Now oil and foreign aid give them all the resources they need.
  
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  January 10, 2017 12:24pm
  - Huevon
    
    This s exactly right. The history of Islam from the beginning is full of these extremist branches in every generation. Stop ISIS and another outfit takes its place. Best keep Muslims out of NZ – as ive said many times before, what do we lose by losing them? Arab Christians can still make kebabs.
    
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    January 10, 2017 12:33pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      And as I’ve said many times before, what we lose by implementing a policy of making New Zealand Muslimrein, is that New Zealand will then no longer be a country which respects freedom of speech, of conscience and of thought; and the rule of law.
      
      And for what gain? Do you seriously think that this policy can be effectively implemented, and that its effect will be to reduce the probability that Muslims will be motivated to carry out a terrorist act in New Zealand?
      
      That seeking to identify and deport every Muslim that is already here (regardless of their actual behaviour), and to identify and prevent any more who want to visit or immigrate here (regardless of their qualifications, credentials, potential contribution) – will have any other effect but to exacerbate ill-will among the rest of the world’s Muslims, and sympathy for them among New Zealand’s and the world’s non-Muslims?
      
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      January 10, 2017 1:20pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Huevon,cmm, Manolo, etc do note this detail in Lamiya’s account ,
      
      “..Lamiya remembers little after the explosion, which happened nine months ago. Kurdish soldiers carried her to hospital, where doctors were forced to remove one of her eyes. They also treated her wounds before her uncle came for her.
      
      Later she was taken to Germany by Luftbrucke Irak (Air Bridge Iraq), a charity that helps children and terror victims. The charity funded two more operations, restoring some sight to her left eye, and laser treatment to soften her facial scars…”
      
      Note” Kurdish Sunni soldiers” involved in her rescue and rehabiliation .
      
      I just hope she si not being demonsied in Germany just becasue she may look Muslim or Middle Eastern !
      
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      January 10, 2017 1:48pm
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        What does ‘demonsied’ mean?
        
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        January 10, 2017 3:13pm
  - SPC
    
    Na again.
    
    Islamic State is the first caliphate movement, imperial Islam for centuries.
    
    Near impossible to replicate, though Saudi Arabia and Iran’s Islamist civil war (a regional replica of the Cold War involving Sunni behind one and Shia behind the other) is what the region will be left with.
    
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    January 10, 2017 2:56pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      At least 4-5 Islamic countries will have nukes in next 10-15 years driven by Iran; Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, possibly more, scary as hell for a religion that exhorts followers to die in battle, and treats genocide, murder, slavery, rape and paedophilia as acceptable or even good (Emulating their prophet).
      
      Oil is no longer earning them enough to support their massively expanded and mostly unemployable populations on land that is probably insufficient to feed them.
      
      They will destroy themselves – and create a refugee problem vastly worse than current. The west is going to have to get very firm about saying no to refugees, and Europe will be lucky to survive the coming fall of Middle Eastern Islamic ‘civilisation’.
      
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      January 10, 2017 10:46pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Lucky we are in good hands with Donald ,
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWejiXvd-P8
        
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        January 10, 2017 10:52pm
Brian Marshall

All that funding and support to Isis from countries that backed the UN declaration against Israel last month too. One would wonder about the company NZ keeps.
Such an evil religion.
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January 10, 2017 12:22pm
- stephieboy
  
  Brian Marsahll , which countries supporting ISIS?
  
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  January 10, 2017 1:51pm
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Qatar, Saudi Arabia. Just 2 named in leaked documents curtesy of the emails on Hillary Clintons non secure server. But we already knew that. Turkey has been a big funder too. The accusations that the Turkish presidents son was trading in oil from them have real credibility.
    
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    January 10, 2017 4:38pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Brian Marshall, I’m farmliar wiht the accusation made by the Russians against President Erdogen and his son trading in oil with ISIS. It is also finds favour with conspiracy web sites such as Veterans Today but so far there is no definitive proof ,
      
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3342846/Russia-accuses-Turkish-president-s-FAMILY-involved-criminal-business-selling-oil-purchased-ISIS.html
      
      Also recall Assad himself has had the same kind accusations levelled against him especially when Syria ‘s main oil producing areas fell into ISIS hands ,
      
      http://europe.newsweek.com/isis-oil-deals-assad-regime-revealed-us-special-forces-raid-452426?rm=eu
      
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      January 10, 2017 5:12pm
      - Duxton
        
        Forget the quotes. ISIS needs to be defeated because it is the spearhead for a filthy religion -period.
        
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        January 10, 2017 10:21pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Duxton , and how do you think that should come about ?
        
        Endoof times theology or … ?
        
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        January 10, 2017 10:31pm
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Seriously – you turn ignorance into an art form.
    
    Again – let me help you.
    
    There is this thing called “the internet”
    And on the internet – you can find this website called “Google”
    On Google (if you want to find anything that doesn’t fit your own world view) you can search for information, opinion, a range of alternative
    viewpoints etc
    This is called “self-help”
    You don’t have to keep parroting empty questions to this blog to waste the time of adults to provide the information for you that is readily available to yourself.
    
    Really – this ‘studied ignorance’ approach doesn’t achieve anything other than proving (over and over and over again) the point that Leftists can not be helped. And by extension – that they cannot be trusted with government.
    
    You do the work of the people you are so opposed to.
    
    I guess I should thank you for your diligence in protecting our democracy from the totalitarianism the Left would visit upon us.
    
    (I know, I know – you want to ask “What totalitarianism?”)
    
    2 0
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    January 10, 2017 8:30pm
    - stephieboy
      
      DifferentPerspective , kindly refute the points raised especially in my second link whether googled or not Pray tell me where you glean your sources from other than the internet and google ?
      
      Totalatrianism ? Your mean this ?
      
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      January 10, 2017 8:53pm
- Gabby
  
  Israel might not like it if the funding to ISIS dried up.
  
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  January 10, 2017 6:17pm
Mighty_Kites

No one’s disputing that. But what about your old mate Bashar “lesser of two evils” Al-Assad and his forces? Still radio silence on that from good old David Farrar… http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/civilians-killed-spot-battle-aleppo-nears-161213133240891.html
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January 10, 2017 12:32pm
- cmm
  
  Here’s another thought:
  
  Just leave them all alone to sort out their own mess.
  
  Every time the West wades in to help influence the situation it just causes a flare up and more people get hurt and killed.
  
  ISIS only exist because of USA involvement. Same too of the Taliban etc etc etc.
  
  Ultimately a stable country – even under a dictatorship – is a better place to live than one that is at constant war. That’s particularly true when it is a proxy war.
  
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  January 10, 2017 12:39pm
  - MickMac
    
    err….
    CMN, yeah right…..
    “Better to be under a dictator than in a war”.
    tell that to all the women Saddams two sons grabbed off the street to get to know better?????
    
    2 2
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    January 10, 2017 2:43pm
    - cmm
      
      It might make some sense to rewind the tape a bit.
      
      While Saddam and his crowd were not boy scouts , he was certainly no worse than what came before or came since.
      
      At least under Saddam Iraq was reasonably stable and had a Western air to it (women could attend university, wear make up and skirts etc…).
      
      http://www.pagef30.com/2009/04/iran-in-1970s-before-islamic-revolution.html
      
      If you think it was worth plunging the population back into Islamic rule just to get rid of Saddam’s gropey sons then you’re a sick puppy.
      
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      January 10, 2017 3:02pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    If you see your neighbour beating his wife or children do you intercede or walk away? How about someone on the other side of a field, or if you hear about someone planning to rape or murder someone in another town? Does your level of care and morality have a distance limitation? and if so how far? 5m, 100m, 10km, 1000km?
    
    I hate the thought of relative innocents being murdered and maimed by thugs anywhere in the world. But sadly I am slowly learning to live with the unwillingness of the west to grow some balls and intercede in a way that will actually work – ie the way that ancient civilizations went about conquest and occupation – initial brutality followed by slow education and harsh over-kill in putting down any ongoing resistance. Fuck the ME’s backwards primitive shithead religion and culture, it is a failure at delivering happiness to its people.
    
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    January 10, 2017 11:01pm
- Andrei
  
  Aleppo has been liberated, the terrorist scum who held it are no longer there
  
  Meanwhile the battles of Mosul, Sirte and Saana rage on with nary a peep
  
  The USA dropped nearly 17,000 bombs last year on at least seven nations only two of which Congress has approved making war on – that’ s not too bad for a Nobel peace laureate – huh?
  
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  January 10, 2017 12:44pm
  - jms
    
    Putin and Assad were so busy bombing civilians in Aleppo, that ISIS was able to recapture Palmyra. How pathetic is that? In the fight against terror, Russia is about as useful as Turkey, ie: useless.
    
    13 10
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    January 10, 2017 12:51pm
    - kowtow
      
      jms
      
      Compare the strategic value of Aleppo to Palmyra.
      
      According to observers ,with Aleppos’ liberation Assad has won the war against the rebels. Turkey, Americas’ loyal ally (yeah right) will now take on the American backed Kurds.No one will give a shit for their fate.
      
      Isis basically now holds a shitload of sand in Syria and is awaiting its ultimate annihilation.
      
      BTW part of that annihilation is via Obama funding and arming Iranian proxies who stand accused of mass war crimes against Sunnis in Iraq, who will never forgive him or the US for same.So much for the Greatest Statesman since Lincoln.
      
      8 2
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      January 10, 2017 1:41pm
  - greenjacket
    
    And 3,2,1 the resident KB Russian troll appears.
    
    8 9
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    January 10, 2017 1:03pm
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  Because there is no comparison between how Syria was before the war and now.
  
  You could at least go for a holiday there. And yes Assad’s regime killed dissidents, but in his entire time in power it was about 10, 000. What’ s the death toll at now?
  
  Assad is bad, but what America did to the country is nothing short of a crime against humanity.
  
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  January 10, 2017 12:46pm
  - jms
    
    You have your countries confused.
    
    It was Iraq the US screwed up.
    
    6 11
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    January 10, 2017 12:54pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      Look at who who funded, supported and armed the Islamist groups in Syria.
      Clue – it wasn’t the Chinese.
      Do you just read the front page of the Herald and take it as gospel?
      
      9 4
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      January 10, 2017 1:09pm
      - jms
        
        No, I don’t read the Herald.
        Do you just watch RT and take it as gospel?
        
        ISIS and Al Qaeda are Assad’s favourite opponents, he barely touches them. He needs them to be the face of the Syrian opposition for obvious reasons:
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12038032/As-long-as-there-is-an-Assad-there-will-be-an-Isil-hell-make-sure-of-it.html
        
        4 9
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        January 10, 2017 1:16pm
      - Padriv Ustoev
        
        Bravo,
        
        The Telegraph. #Slow Clap
        
        6 5
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        January 10, 2017 1:34pm
      - jms
        
        Ad hominem. #SlowClap
        
        6 6
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        January 10, 2017 1:37pm
      - Padriv Ustoev
        
        An ad hominem is when you attack a person instead of the ideas.
        
        Didn’t say anything about you, just pointed out your lack of knowledge and you weak grasp of the subject.
        
        #VictimOfModernEducation. – That’s and ad hominem
        
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        January 10, 2017 1:41pm
      - jms
        
        You attacked the Telegraph/author of the article, rather than the ideas in the article.
        
        I don’t need Latin or English language lessons from a
        
        #VictimOf Soviet’Education’
        
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        January 10, 2017 1:46pm
      - Padriv Ustoev
        
        Mate,
        
        Telegraph is just as partisan as RT. I’m sure the author is a stand up guy.
        
        Why would you need a Latin version? That language is not really spoken any more outside of church.
        
        Also, do you always copy your opponents comebacks and insults or do you sometimes manage to squeeze out something original?
        
        8 4
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        January 10, 2017 1:58pm
      - jms
        
        Are you that dense, or do we have a language barrier here?
        
        “ad hominem” is Latin. You were suggesting I didn’t know what it meant, and felt the (unnecessary) need to define it for me. Get it??
        
        Your ‘comebacks’ are so weak, that they already contain your opponent’s comeback prepackaged inside. You make it too easy.
        
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        January 10, 2017 2:14pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      http://theduran.com/syria-and-the-city-of-deraa-how-the-cia-engineered-the-civil-war-in-syria/
      
      Here is an interesting article that raises some questions.
      
      9 3
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      January 10, 2017 1:13pm
  - greenjacket
    
    Russian trollbot: “what America did to the country is nothing short of a crime against humanity”
    
    Huh? I thought that the talking point was that Obama had done nothing to stop the civil war in Syria and prevent the rise of ISIS. Now the talking point is that America did horrible things.
    Or is it just “USA bad, Russia good”?
    
    10 7
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    January 10, 2017 1:06pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      Do you only read Wiki Leaks when it suits your narrate.
      
      Here is timeline that sums up some interesting facts.
      
      http://www.globalresearch.ca/timeline-of-cia-interventions-in-syria/5479875
      
      5 3
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      January 10, 2017 1:12pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      And, no you moron.
      
      It’s not USA bad, Russia Good. They are both bad.
      
      I’m more concerned with the fact that on the Western English speaking side of the world the narrative is very skewd. Despite the fact that you have good journalist and Wiki leaks and all the fact right in front of you.
      
      But no, you just pick up the Herald and then try to wade into serious geopolitical debates like a fucking child wondering in into the middle of an adult conversation – wondering what the fuck is going on and why the adults don’t want to talk to you.
      
      The adults already have way more fact then you ever got from your Herald or CNN, and they just can’t be bothered catching you up.
      
      And then you follow up with a passive aggressive – Russia good USA bad, when the adults try to rub your nose against some information that is interesting and relevant.
      
      Just a low level of knowledge and no desire to look at both angles and make up your own mind.
      
      11 3
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      January 10, 2017 1:27pm
  - stephieboy
    
    The death toll was considerably higher than ” about 10,000 “,
    
    http://www.genocidewatch.org/syria.html
    
    3 8
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    January 10, 2017 1:56pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      Yes thank you stephie.
      
      That’s exactly what I was pointing out. Death toll after the war is much higher then death toll due to Assad’s repression before the war.
      
      Have an apple you may sit down.
      
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      January 10, 2017 2:02pm
      - greenjacket
        
        I love the way that when the Russian troll gets going, his English starts to get worse, and you can almost hear his Russian accent through his writing!
        
        That he claims that RT and Wikileaks are credible sources is so cute.
        
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        January 10, 2017 2:27pm
    - stephieboy
      
      PU , lets try Anmesty Internantional then ,
      
      https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/detention-in-syria/
      
      Or another leftist plot ?
      
      4 9
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      January 10, 2017 2:02pm
      - Padriv Ustoev
        
        As a rebuttal to stephie-peasant and for those who can concentrate for more than a 10 second sound byte or a 1 paragraph click bate article.
        
        Just putting things into perspective and giving some sourly lacking background knowledge.
        
        http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/12/understanding-syria-from-pre-civil-war-to-post-assad/281989/
        
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        January 10, 2017 2:36pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Padriv Ustoev, you also might like to try this BBC Time line regarding the origins of the Civil war that even goes back to 1916 ,
        
        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703995
        
        It sure is complex and nuanced and needs someone with the wisdom of Solomon to sought it out . ( not sure Trump is the man but we shall have to wait and see ) Certainly not Kremlin ,RT and Syrian Information Ministry Propaganda .
        
        Another useful overview is here ,
        
        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26116868
        
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        January 10, 2017 2:45pm
      - Padriv Ustoev
        
        Sorry stephie
        
        I can’t take anything you say seriously since you announced that: Mein Kampf is a history book and not an autobigraphy / political manifesto.
        
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        January 10, 2017 3:02pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Mein Kampf , a history book ?Pray when did I say that including some context ?
        
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        January 10, 2017 5:17pm
- David Farrar
  
  Call him my mate again and you’ll be banned. I detest what Stalin did and was but allying with Russia in WWII against the Nazis was still the right thing to do.
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:10pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    DPF –
    
    To whom does this relate??
    
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    January 10, 2017 7:42pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  You are being a dick. Assad is no-ones optimal choice, he is just probably the only realistic current alternative to ISIS and genocidal sectarian anarchy.
  
  Which is pretty much what I recall reading in I think it was the Economist 4-5 years back before ISIS even existed.
  
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  January 10, 2017 11:26pm
MCos

I don’t think there is any need to be reminded that IS needs to be defeated. There have been some nasty extremist organisations in recent times, but this must surely be the most loathsome.
The problem is, of course, that forming a united force among disparate countries against them is impossible.
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January 10, 2017 12:40pm
DifferentPerspective

It’s not ISIS that is the problem, it is Islamist colonialism.

Today ISIS
Yesterday the Taliban
Before it was AL Quaida
Much earlier it was the PLO

They are just evolving versions of radical Islam.

Islam is the common feature for all this barbarism.

Get rid of Islam you go a long way to rid the world of terrorism.

On the other hand maybe we shouldn’t have eradicated smallpox. Should we have been more tolerant of it, it is just another lifeforms after all!
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January 10, 2017 1:01pm
- MCos
  
  “Get rid of Islam you go a long way to rid the world of terrorism.”
  How many times have we heard a variation on this sort of thinking?
  WWI – War to end all wars
  Munich Agreement – Peace in our time
  Lose the Vietnam War & SE Asia & then us would fall to communism . . . . .
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:03pm
- stephieboy
  
  DifferentPerspective, so the Kurds , Iraqis and Shia Muslims trying to defeat ISIS at Mosul is all fake ?
  
  The same with Assad and his Alawaris and Shia militias in Syria ?
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:05pm
cmm

The USA will keep waging these wars because it is highly beneficial to the money makers.

An F16 can drop 6 bombs (costing approx $20k each) and costs around $20k per hour to keep in the air (including all the deployment costs). Let’s call it $25k per bomb dropped. 20k bombs adds up to around half a billion dollars.

And that’s just the bombs… Now add $70k-$300k per missile fired, $30M per reaper drone deployed… and we soon understand by Obama gets all that love from the Pentagon.
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January 10, 2017 1:09pm
- stephieboy
  
  But not of course with Trump at the Helm ?
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:11pm
  - cmm
    
    stephie: I have absolutely no idea what Trump will do. We’ll have to judge him by his actions once he’s had his feet under the table for a few months.
    
    What I do know is that GWB was a terrible war monger and great friend to the military industrial complex.
    
    But that Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama made Dubbya look like an amateur and has dropped more bombs and sold more arms into the Middle East than any president before him.
    
    Perhaps Trump will end up dropping more bombs and cause more war than Obama, but so far it is not looking like that.
    
    I’m not pro-Trump. I just think USA needs to do things differently and Trump offers some posibilities. If he does end up dropping more bombs than Obama then expect me to be calling him out.
    
    Slagging him off before he’s even signed up for his first day of work is a bit churlish.
    
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    January 10, 2017 2:21pm
    - stephieboy
      
      cmm, all I know about Trump’s policies regarding ISIS is his memorable phrase , ” bomb the shit out of them ”
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWejiXvd-P8
      
      However they certainly welcome his election stating that he will be ideal recruiting fodder for their cause as Trump moves against Muslims at home ,
      
      “Why ISIS Supports Donald Trump”
      
      http://time.com/4480945/isis-donald-trump/
      
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      January 10, 2017 2:30pm
      - MickMac
        
        you really are an arsehole sometimes Stephieboy.
        CMN’s comment before yours is right on the button.
        We know Obama’s history……..
        It’s history.
        You are just making things up about Trump based on ????
        History….
        No your Bias.
        STFU please.
        stick to facts and history.
        You make this place toxic and give lefties such a bad name.
        
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        January 10, 2017 2:50pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You make this place toxic and give lefties such a bad name.
        
        @MickMac
        
        Could be one of the reasons I enjoy seeing his many comments
        
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        January 10, 2017 3:04pm
      - Duxton
        
        You really need to find some credible sources, stogieboy. BBC? The Guardian? Amnesty International?
        
        Next you will be trying to convince us that Mohammed wasn’t a paedo…..
        
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        January 10, 2017 10:36pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Duxton, what do you consider a credible source ?
        
        Here ?
        
        http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-hillary-micro-managed-isis/
        
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        January 10, 2017 10:44pm
burt

I think you are all confused. What happened to this woman is described in the Koran as perfect behaviour. It’s woman that need to be sorted out – they need to learn not to complain about this kind of perfect treatment.
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January 10, 2017 1:18pm
Peter

Are this “Extreme” Islam, “moderate” Islam, or just “Islam”?
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January 10, 2017 1:53pm
- stephieboy
  
  burt and peter , I think you can easily find who are Moderate Muslims e. g.
  
  1 Those involved in the Rescue of Lamiya ( Kurdish soldiers ) and
  
  2 Those Muslim soldiers who are fighting ISIS at the moment at Mosul – Kurds ,Iiraqis and Shia militias or in Syria .
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:15pm
  - burt
    
    The difference between a Muslim extremist and a moderate Muslim if you are not a Muslim is;
    
    * The extremist wants to cut your head off.
    * The moderate wants the extremist to cut your head off.
    
    That’s it in a nutshell.
    
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    January 10, 2017 2:57pm
    - stephieboy
      
      burt , yet another who copes by denying facts and reality !
      
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      January 10, 2017 2:58pm
- Inandout
  
  Just Islam, because underneath all Muslims will answer the call of Mohamed to eliminate us infidels; if asked.
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:28pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout, another who copes by denying facts and reality !
    
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    January 10, 2017 2:32pm
    - Inandout
      
      The important thing is that whatever the incentive is I do cope, whilst you are all over the place like a mad woman’s shit.
      
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      January 10, 2017 3:01pm
- MickMac
  
  Peter
  There is no extreme, moderate, it is observant or not.
  Muhammed is the key as he founded Islam.
  
  ISIS and other are observant, just as Muhammed called them to be.
  That’s why they quote the Sura’s and Muhammed.
  Don’t expect a coherent post from DPF on this as he like StephieBoy just quotes the narrative.
  Religion of peace sideswiped suborned by extremists.
  
  Read the chronological koran and you’ll see that this type of behaviour is acceptable to sharia, Jihad and to Muhammed.
  
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  January 10, 2017 2:53pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Mickmac, you also may like to go through the Bible and study equivalent verses etc,
    
    Decapitate Them!
    
    “And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'” (Numbers 25:3-4)
    
    Comment
    
    Those who worshipped other gods must die, and even more horribly, their heads displayed publicly. Either God never said anything so cruel, or we truly live in a cursed universe, ruled by a maniac Supreme Being.
    
    Millions of people, today, switch their religions. If God had any interest in this ongoing process, there appears no evidence of this.”
    
    Carry on. There is lots ,lots more .
    
    http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm
    
    Please report back your findings ?
    
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    January 10, 2017 3:03pm
    - Padriv Ustoev
      
      stephie makes an excellent point.
      
      The reason Christianity is loosing the fight against Islam is because it has evolved and has left the barbaric vestiges of the Old Testament and stone age culture behind.
      
      The only way to defeat ISIS is for the Western world is to get back to it’s roots. Throw away thousands of years of civilization and re-instate beheading.
      
      You saw it here – Stephie the idiot savant and Padriv Ustoev the most incisive political theorist since Brzezinski have just defeated ISIS
      
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      January 10, 2017 4:05pm
      - stephieboy
        
        PAdriv Ustoev , the truth is that ever since the enlightenment and the rise of secularism the Churches ( Both Catholic,Protestant and Orthodox) have lost their power anf influnce .
        
        Catholic and Protestant also after the bloody wars of relgion in the 16th anf 17th centuries .
        
        We will defeat ISIS with the Church’s blessing or not ,
        
        https://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/00-russian-soldiers-being-blessed-by-priest-27-09-13.jpg
        
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        January 10, 2017 5:28pm
      - cmm
        
        stephie:
        
        “Catholic and Protestant also after the bloody wars of relgion in the 16th anf 17th centuries .”
        
        Yes and my grandmother used to help club seals when she was a child growing up in Canada in 1920 or so.
        
        Why do you keep on banging on about irrelevant shit that happened a long time ago? Your thesis seems to be that Christians were nasty a long time ago so Muslims should be given their fair shake and be allowed to be nasty now. That might make sense except that Muslims were also nasty back then too – so they all got their fair chance already.
        
        What people did a long time ago doesn’t matter. It is history. It is finished. It can’t be undone.
        
        What people did more than a generation ago is irrelevant. I don’t smack a German bloke I met just because a German bloke shot my grandfather’s ear off in 1917.
        
        What matters is what people are doing NOW. Today. Tomorrow. etc. I’ll sit down with that German bloke – have a beer and talk shit.
        
        Likewise it does not really matter now whether or not Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old. What matters is whether Muslims hold him up as an example of perfection and continue to have sex with 9 year olds.
        
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        January 10, 2017 6:01pm
      - burt
        
        cmm
        
        You are absolutely right, stephieboy is here on every thread that is discussing disgraceful barbaric 6th century behaviour only to say ‘Christians did it too’.
        
        Your point is well made but I suspect wasted on stephieboy. He’s had his ‘but others did it too centuries ago’ comments called before and it certainly hasn’t effected his position.
        
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        January 10, 2017 7:05pm
      - stephieboy
        
        burt , no not 6th century behaviour .Much more recent than that e.g the Croatian Ustace , The Romanian Iron Guard and the murder of jews WW2, The Rwandan genocide and implication of Catholic priests and the Bosnian Genocide at Srebrenica.
        
        1 5
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        January 10, 2017 7:29pm
      - cmm
        
        Croation stuff, Jews in WW2… dude that’s all 70 years ago. And don’t you worry, they all took a thrashing then and still continue to get done. Yes those were atrocities, but that’s history – done and dusted – no threat to the future.
        
        The Rwandan stuff is over 20 years old. Yes that was shocking too and should be called out for what it was.
        
        What is much more relevant is what is happening now. 2017.
        
        Catholicism is done as a danger to societies. Thay aren’t stringing up gays or burning scientists any more.
        
        There is also a difference in that I bet you if you went and interviewed a bunch of Catholics in Uk whether you think that what was done in Rwanda was right very, very few would say it is Ok. Yet a good 20% or more of the Muslims in Uk think honour killings and stringing up gays is a good thing to do.
        
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        January 10, 2017 7:49pm
      - stephieboy
        
        cmm, so I can take ut your solution is a holy war against all 1.6 billion Muslims ?
        
        I think even ISIS has not gone about massarcing 8,000 Muslims as happened at Srebrenica..
        
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        January 10, 2017 8:03pm
      - burt
        
        stephieboy
        
        You just don’t get it do you. You are arguing with people who say those events were a disgrace and you are using what we say are disgraceful past Christian behaviours to justify what we say are disgraceful current Muslim behaviours.
        
        Do you support radical Muslim behaviour – because shouting and pointing like a petulant child that others did similar things is the past is making you look like an apologist.
        
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        January 10, 2017 8:06pm
      - stephieboy
        
        burt , you are getting quite hysterical and irrational there .
        
        Of course I don’t support ISIS or radical Islam. What evidence do you have that our 50,000 local Muslims are morphing into Radical Jihadists ?
        
        It is often trying to recognise and understand whats going on in the world .
        
        You obviously do not !
        
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        January 10, 2017 9:03pm
      - burt
        
        Oh I understand what is going on in the world, the same BS over and over for melienums. History constantly repeats and Stone Age sky fairy worshippers have been fighting and killing ‘unbelievers’ of their one true God over and over and over again. Study and understand a little history and this sort of crap today with ISIS militants blowing shit up everywhere and ( eventually ) having the shit kicked out of them is depressingly predictable.
        
        Twats like you who continue to follow an increasingly radicalised blind faith religion either radicalise, leave their religion or join ( or start ) modified versions of it. This crap ain’t rocket science, anyone can see and understand it if they take off their faith glasses.
        
        Meanwhile all you do is say… but what about the Christians or the Jews….
        
        And you claim to not support the beliefs of ISIS, yet claim to be a Muslim – pfft, you (or your children) will be with them totally or ashamed of what Islam preaches soon enough, which way do you think you’ll go ?
        
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        January 10, 2017 9:33pm
      - cmm
        
        “cmm, so I can take ut your solution is a holy war against all 1.6 billion Muslims ?”
        
        Jeez stephie, you don’t give up do you!
        
        If you look at my other posts you will see that I think that the West should get the hell out of the Middle East.
        
        USA in particular has destabilized the Middle East – upending more progressive (ie. Westernised) states and then allowing fundamentalist nut-jobs to take over.
        
        Declaring counter-Jihad is no solution, but massive influx of Muslims into the West is no solution either.
        
        Muslims and the Western values are incompatible. We can see this because the the Muslims tell us this. If a woman dresses like a Westerner in a Muslim country she will be flogged. If the Muslim leaders tell us they are incompatible then surely we should take them at their word.
        
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        January 11, 2017 7:15am
    - cmm
      
      stephie: I am not a Christian, but I know a tiny bit about the bible that I might share with you so you can understand it better.
      
      There is the old testament and there is the new testament.
      
      The stuff in the old testament is not binding on Christians. Christ made a new covenant (I think that’s somewhere in Matthew) which supersedes the covenants of the old testament. Where the two are in conflict then you take the new testament.
      
      Therefore we see more of an instruction to love, tolerate, forgive etc rather than stone adulterers and gays.
      
      Ultimately though what is written in a book is not as important as people’s actions. It doesn’t matter if people read this in their book, what matters is what they actually do it.
      
      A slight analogy sometimes helps the understanding:
      
      These days we generally frown on people who are mean to whales (eg. the Japanese “scientific” whaling).
      
      You’re saying we are as bad as the Japanese because we read Moby Dick and used to do whaling 50 years ago.
      
      Nope. What matters is if people ACT. Read all the Bible or Koran (or Mein Kampf or Chariman Mao’s Red Book) you like, but what matters is whether you act it out.
      
      Nor does it matter what people did five hundred or 100 or even two years ago. What matters is what they do today and in the future.
      
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      January 10, 2017 5:35pm
RF

Let’s face it. The Western world as we know it is fragmented. ISIS who will have a new name in a few years but the same aims are followers of Islam and have a common goal to wipe us westerners out.

Thanks to the Iraq army retreating during recent battles ISIS now has modern transport and weapons plus thanks to Crooked Hillary via the Saudis they also have missiles.

We are all in the shit as the people we are dealing with are prepared to blow themselves up. Are you ?
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January 10, 2017 3:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We are all in the shit
  
  The Chinese will sort us all out.
  
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  January 10, 2017 4:10pm
- Gabby
  
  I wouldn’t get too shitmired as they’re blowing each other up a whole lot more.
  
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  January 10, 2017 6:45pm
- stephieboy
  
  RF , utter nonsense .ISIS are indeed a formiable and fanatical opponent . Assad and Putin are very lucky they didn’t have a stonghold in Aleppo. Thinking about retreats ISIS recently retook Palmyra as a matter of interst .
  
  The Middle East is awash with weapons and ISIS has made good use of that fact including cannibalising old Rusiian and US equipment such as T82 tanks etc, etc
  
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  January 10, 2017 9:10pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    But but but, according to Obama, they are the ‘V’ team!
    Are you saying Obama doesn’t know what he is taking about?
    Yes or no.
    
    Didn’t have a stronghold in Aleppo- snigger.
    
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    January 10, 2017 9:13pm
    - stephieboy
      
      All On Red , American resources are focused in Iraq and the current battle at Mosul supporting Iraqis , Kurds and Shias .
      
      I suppose they can be seen as the V team but I take it Trump has got all that sorted by ” bombing the shit out of them “, flattening Mosul etc and never mind the civilian collateral damage .
      
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      January 10, 2017 9:19pm
RRM

It’s well past time Xerxes’ hordes faced… OBLITERATION!

https://youtu.be/STcDMoQ4KT0?t=1m40s
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January 10, 2017 5:06pm
- stephieboy
  
  Bit carried away there . Islam let alone Christianity had not been invented then .
  
  BTW it wasn’t just 300 Spartans defending . There were also at least 5,000 auxiliaries helping them .
  
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  January 10, 2017 7:36pm
  - RRM
    
    Oh, I know that movie is a complete crock.
    
    It remains one of the most… bloke things I have ever seen!
    
    2 0
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    January 10, 2017 8:26pm
Steve (North Shore)

Does the Devoid one have something to say about this? No?
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January 10, 2017 5:21pm
Reid

Yes I quite agree ISIS needs to be stopped. We need to identify its state supporters…

ISIS, Al-Qaeda And The U.S. Airforce Wage War On Syria’s Public Utilities

The idea of the Islamic State was “born” in the U.S. military prison camp Bucca in Iraq. Many of its future leader were interned there and had time and space to develop their philosophy and to plan their future operations.

In 2012 the Defense Intelligence Agency warned of the rise of an Islamic State entity in Syria and Iraq:

THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

In an August 2014 NYT interview with Thomas Friedman President Obama said that the U.S. knew about the dangers of ISIS but did nothing to stop its expansion in Iraq because it could be used to oust then Prime Minister Maliki:

The reason, the president added, “that we did not just start taking a bunch of airstrikes all across Iraq as soon as ISIL came in was because that would have taken the pressure off of [Prime Minister Nuri Kamal] al-Maliki.

In a recent talk with some U.S. paid members of the Syrian opposition Secretary of State Kerry (video – 25:50) made a similar point but wuth regard to Syria:

“And we know that this was growing, we were watching, we saw that DAESH was growing in strength, and we thought Assad was threatened” Kerry told the Syrians. “(We) thought, however,” he continued. “we could probably manage that Assad might then negotiate. But instead of negotiating he got Putin to support him.”

There are doubts that the U.S. was only watching from afar. The beginning and growth of ISIS was financed by U.S. Gulf “allies” which are subordinated to U.S. wishes. When the Obama administration had to start bombing ISIS after it killed a U.S. journalist the few bombs its airforce dropped were hitting an “ISIS fighting position” or an “ISIS excavator”. That wasn’t a serious campaign. Meanwhile thousands of Turkish tanker trucks were waiting in the deserts to load oil from ISIS controlled wells to sell it to Turkey. Only after the Russian President Putin showed satellite pictures of those huge truck columns to his colleagues at a G20 meeting did the U.S. start to attack this major source of ISIS finances…

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/01/isis-al-qaeda-and-the-us-airforce-wage-war-on-syrias-public-utilities-.html
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January 10, 2017 6:31pm
stephieboy

Reid, so some captured and put in the Bucca prison where they hatched ISIS is somehow US complicity in their creation ?

Well I never !

A bit more comlicated than that I think .This is auseful palce to begin,

ISIS, a history: how the world’s worst terror group came to be,

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9760284/isis-history
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January 10, 2017 9:26pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Vox!! Hahahahaha, no wonder you are so uninformed!
  
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  January 10, 2017 9:33pm
  - stephieboy
    
    All on Red , I forgot you are allergic to MSM and restrict yourself to a diet of RT , Breitbart and Fox .
    
    However this might suffice ,
    
    Islamic State group: The full story
    
    By Jim Muir
    
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35695648
    
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    January 10, 2017 9:49pm
    - Duxton
      
      More crap from the BBC….
      
      2 1
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      January 10, 2017 10:42pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Duxton , tell us more about your kind of Crap ?
        
        This ?,
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhvaI07jmkA
        
        0 2
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        January 10, 2017 10:49pm
Rodney Randall

Isil eschatology. Comprehensive Article.

What Isis Really Wants – The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

“After its battle in Dabiq, Cerantonio said, the caliphate will expand and sack Istanbul. Some believe it will then cover the entire Earth, but Cerantonio suggested its tide may never reach beyond the Bosporus. An anti-Messiah, known in Muslim apocalyptic literature as Dajjal, will come from the Khorasan region of eastern Iran and kill a vast number of the caliphate’s fighters, until just 5,000 remain, cornered in Jerusalem. Just as Dajjal prepares to finish them off, Jesus—the second-most-revered prophet in Islam—will return to Earth, spear Dajjal, and lead the Muslims to victory.”

Cheesus coming back to lead Muslims to victory?
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January 11, 2017 2:08am
- mikenmild
  
  Yes, the imaginary figure Jeebus is important to Muslims and Christians. So many shared delusions…
  
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  January 11, 2017 6:36am
Bob R

Keep them out of Europe.
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January 11, 2017 11:05am
- mikenmild
  
  It’s unlikely that Islamic State will conquer Europe.
  
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  January 11, 2017 11:07am

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