General Debate 29 August 2017

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krazykiwi

From the Herald

“No one is served by there being any sense of dirty politics in an election cycle. Just because Anne Tolley received the information does not mean she was the source of a leak.

She deviously associates the term dirty politics with the name Anne Tolley. This is Jacinda’s “have you stopped beating your wife yet” moment.

.. and ..

Ardern said “transparency is always helpful”

Riiiight. Like your transparency with voters about water taxes, capital gains taxes, wealth taxes, death taxes, GST changes?
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August 29, 2017 8:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  So the bitter and twisted lefty Barely Sober is accusing National of leaking the Winston pension story.
  He needs to come up with proof before he blurts out such nonsense.
  Hope it backfires on him big time.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:04am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Where were Soper’s cries of “Dirty politics!” when Winston Peters was leaking private text messages from Bill English? His silence then was deafening.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:05am
    - pdm
      
      `His silence then was deafening.’
      
      As expected.
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:14am
    - oldgolfer
      
      He is a semi-literate clown.
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:18am
    - Souvlaki
      
      Sopers exuberant certainty, and his known long term tendency ( and familial connections to Labour) make me speculate this is in reality a hit job to rat fuck the Nats ! There are any number of ” well known Bill haters” ,devious enough to carry this off ….we all know them !
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:50am
      - Happychappy
        
        Did they jump in and promote the dirty politics story of the $200,000 donation that supposedly had come from a Government identity for the change the govt organisation run by Matt McCarten. Where was Barry Soper and Watkins when facts needed to be presented on that.
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:26am
  - doggone7
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Soper’s just a commentator. So are you.
    Soper needs proof you say.
    
    At the moment he’s come up with a reasonable conclusion from events. You’ve come up with “blurts out such nonsense.
    
    On logical grounds your summary is well behind his.
    Your conclusion is based on political bias.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:19am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Winston said that the reporter told him the leak was from IRD, Are they saying that the reporter was lying?
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:24am
      - peterwn
        
        The odds are that the reporter is quite wrong. While IRD would have contributed to a data matching operation between IRD and MSD it would be unlikely that IRD staff would have been aware of any situation data matching turned up. In any case IRD over the years has had a very good record of maintaining confidences as they are required to do under stringent clauses in tax law. Indeed, IRD come down heavily on staff who improperly access taxpayer information even for benign purposes. IRD management were concerned that a staffer checked a landlord’s tax situation (and found he was not declaring rents) when a fellow staffer had had a run-in with the landlord (this was about 40 years ago).
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:13am
    - lifesgood
      
      ” based on political bias”……and his isn’t?
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:32am
  - Gabby
    
    DON’T PANIC! DON’T PANIC!
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:58am
    - cmm
      
      Looks like a bit of progress from poo licking.
      
      The wonders of modern medicine!
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:56am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Where was the transparency when Helen Clark leaked highly damaging, prejudicial and contestable information on Police Commissioner Peter Doone to a Wellington journalist? That was one of her first acts as Prime Minister, and pretty much set the tone for her administration.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:09am
  - PhilBest
    
    And most Kiwis never knew much about that, or any of the other stuff the media never covered about Clark. It is such a shame we have never had anything like Trumpism yet, because the media here were shamelessly doing fake news for a long time. They have only become seemingly less partisan since those days, because John Key National’s tactics was to be “Helen Clark’s 4th, 5th and 6th terms”. The media have been largely APPEASED, not changed their colours.
    
    EDIT: see my cut-and-pastes further down for some ideas about how political war really is fought.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:39am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Yesterday people were accusing MSD officials of a politically motivated leak. At this point nobody knows who the leaker was and it makes sense to start by finding out who had the information. Though why anyone in MSD thought this kind of thing should be shared with the minister is beyond me.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Nigel
    It has been a Ministerial responsibility that the Department for which they have a responsibility has a No Surprise Policy.
    Business leader have had this for generations.
    Thought you might have known !
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:21am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Do they think details of all benefit overpayments should be shared with the Minister, or just ones that could be embarrassing to the opposition? Also, surely they should have known that Anne Tolley would prefer not to be told. That’s just common sense.
      
      I think they should have prosecuted. Then the issue of confidentiality would not arise.
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:48am
    - Gabby
      
      How long have business leader been above the law pullus.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:02am
    - peterwn
      
      And such a ‘no surprises’ policy conflicts badly with the policy that Ministers do not get involved with departments’ operational matters.
      During WW2 it was a status symbol for top officials to be on the circulation list for top secrets and the list grew longer and longer. Winston Churchill noticed this and sent out a memo calling for a clamp-down for circulation of top secrets to be limited to those who ‘need to know’. In doing so he probably averted a potentially disastrous
      situation.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:04am
  - Gabby
    
    Just possibly because somebody in somebody’s office hinted that it might be nice to know some things.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:01am
- KevOB
  
  No taxation without a mandate.
  No mandate without clear prior full facts.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:29am
- peterwn
  
  The main issue here is ‘who leaked’, not the substantive matter. My first impression yesterday was that it was not an issue that would ‘break’ Winston. Winston is now as mad as a hornet and I do not blame him – this was a private matter that should have remained private (unless MSD had chosen in accordance with their usual policies to take it to court). Winston is now after scalps and will try to claim them before the election or make it a ‘bottom line’ after the election. He could well try and inflict collateral damage, it seems the potential exists.
  The ‘no surprises’ policy is highly suspect and needs review. A IRD or MSD Minister should never be held to account for being unaware of a particular operational matter in either department. IRD legislation is very strong on this so a Revenue Minister cannot hold IRD to account for a ‘surprise’. MSD probably less so, herein lies the problem I think. As far as MSD is concerned it seems to me they handled the matter quite properly and in particular there seemed to be no goof-up on their part leading to overpayments.
  If Whaleoil has correctly surmised the situation in his blog this morning (it may well be quite wrong – I have no idea) then it would seem to me that National’s political leadership has badly let down its candidates, helpers, supporters and contributors.
  After reading about it here yesterday morning, this just did not resonate with me. I quickly identified the principal matter as being an inappropriate breach of privacy. So far my instinct has shown to be correct. I am no political expert, if I formed that conclusion yesterday, then if National’s political leadership used it to try and take a hit at Winston (assuming that was the situation – again I do not know the exact circumstances), then it shows a surprising lack of political skills. If someone can land a lethal political hit on Winston I would be all for it, but it needs to be thought out properly.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:36am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I do blame Winston, he has absolutely no right to be upset. As a politician who has made much of private information leaked for political purposes he has made his own bed and must lie in it.
    
    He’s a conman with no integrity and no ethics beyond “what’s in it for me”. I’ll assert that he did not own up to the de-facto relationship and that was fundamentally dishonest and caused the over-payment.
    
    Anyone with any sense of proprietary should simply laugh at Winston over his arrant hypocrisy.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:13am
    - peterwn
      
      Except in this case there seemed to be no leak from departmental sources. It would seem that ministers and/ or their advisers misused official in-confidence information to attempt a hit job on Winston. While leaks might be fair game to use politically, misuse of information in this way is not. Winston along with anyone else in NZ is entitled that private information concerning them is treated with proper respect. So I still do not blame Winston for his reaction, as much as I dislike him.
      Depending on what transpires my two ticks may not go the way they normally would.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:48am
      - Happychappy
        
        peterwn : Talking of a persons own financial dealings and releasing information like has happen to Winston I find it hard to agree that he has suffered a privacy breach when the same Winston thought nothing about the privacy of the ex weather man that was a MP for his Party when he released several times under Parliamentary Privilege many details of Brendan Horan money woes. Then to make matters worse after Horan left the Party the Police found that he had no case to answer.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:54am
    - waikatogirl
      
      The old boy who cried wolf is now complaining!?????????
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:07am
    - redeye
      
      It’s almost time Bill English discounted working with NZ First.
      If it’s true they leaked the info because they want to win enough NZ First votes to govern themselves there is now only a minimal chance Peters will go with National.
      So forcing NZ First voters to choose between taxation and prosperity could be a valid strategy.
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:56pm
  - Souvlaki
    
    Think Machiavelli…everyone in National would be aware this would compromise them ..possibly fatally( if they have a normal IQ). So, who hates English enough to ensure his downfall ? Cui bono?
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:34am
  - KevOB
    
    I agree.
    As a former IRD staffer I can affirm how ingrained IRD’s requirement for privacy is.
    
    Winston is best not annoyed. His judgement has been highly respected in the past. He is a person with a deep sense of what is correct; an old fashioned viewpoint these days.
    The Winebox was properly pursued by him as revealing subversion of the state. I wholly agree with his views on that matter.
    
    The $158K has been explained too. Starship rejected it but Winston has said that he subsequently spoke to Mr Speaker about that and arranged to pay various amount to other charities. Perhaps strange, but the repayment that would otherwise fallen to be repaid to the Consolidated Fund did not lawfully have to be as Labour had been excused of a much greater sum. Peters adjusted the scales his way.
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:03pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The main focus, for both main parties, is to distance themselves from the situation.
  
  Nobody wants to get offside with the person that could put them in power.
  
  Anybody else and they would have been all over it, except MeTu and Labour.
  
  Funny it was a National Government desperate to save money that brought in the discrepancy, previously everyone was paid the same.
  
  How many people have separated to get the extra money.
  
  Pay everybody the same and remove the anomaly.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:40am
duggledog

A thought on TV1’s ‘Q & A’ on Sunday morning, featuring the debate about housing between Phil Twyford and Amy Adams:

Amy has multiple properties.

Phil has one, with a mortgage.

I am assuming he gives all his money to charity, otherwise WTF has he been doing with all his dough?
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August 29, 2017 8:02am
- mikenmild
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I think candidates for Parliament should be forced to publish their bank accounts from age 18, so that duggledog may make a judgement on their ability to accumulate assets. Or we could make it more straightforward and impose a minimum property qualification ($1 million?) on anyone who wishes to stand for election.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:10am
  - Chris R
    
    So as envy-ridden creeps of your ilk can fuel your perverse resentments and malevolence?
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:52am
  - srylands
    
    I would support two tests to qualify as an MP.
    
    A basic understanding of science and economics. (Simple multiple choice test.)
    
    Net assets of $500,000.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:04am
    - Chris R
      
      Why not a greater sum? Then they could follow JK’s lead and do the job for close to zero $$$.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:11am
    - mikenmild
      
      You might as well add a religious qualification (no Muslims) and restrict the franchise to 3rd generation New Zealanders while you’re at it.
      Perhaps height and weight criteria too.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:30am
      - Chris R
        
        You’re on to it! I am sorely tempted to uptick you for the novelty of doing so…no, almost did! Once a candidate has met your suggested criteria we could add exclusions for those with physical handicaps, those with intellectual handicaps (there goes the entire Lab/Green lot.) and those you just don’t like.
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:36am
      - JibberJabber
        
        I`d hazard a guess you`d fail the Phrenology test, No Vote for you!
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:40am
      - mikenmild
        
        I hadn’t thought of phrenology. And each candidate could also be assess by a panel of astrologers.
        Also, randomly eliminate every fourth candidate. You wouldn’t want to vote for someone unlucky, would you?
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:58am
    - KevOB
      
      I have been advocating age as well.
      Forty would now be my minimum qualifying age.
      (I have already reduced it a bit.)
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:10pm
      - Brigitte
        
        Agree on the minimum age – but would also add a maximum qualifying age of 39.
        
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        August 29, 2017 1:06pm
- PhilBest
  
  “…Amy has multiple properties…”
  
  And funny enough, she and her colleagues don’t look so good over 3 terms of inaction on the housing bubble, over material facts like the ownership of investment properties. Why is it that on this issue, there is not the demands of purity of vested interests like there is re ownership of shares and businesses affected by policy?
  
  Just a strictly non-partisan observation. Helen was guilty on this too, along with some of her colleagues. But if MP’s need to divest themselves of shares to remain untainted by hints of corruption in governing, why does property get a free pass?
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:46am
  - waikatogirl
    
    “…Amy has multiple properties…”
    
    Exactly what Amy said was, she and her family have a family home, a small flat in Wellington she uses while working in Wellington, and a beach bach.
    
    Multiple properties = 3. Not excessive given her busy life.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:14am
    - mikenmild
      
      Of course; every one I know has at least three homes…
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:31am
      - sooty
        
        Even you. House, chook house, woodshed.
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:36am
      - Dafixeruppa
        
        Sooty, you missed the dog ~~box~~ house
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:04am
    - PhilBest
      
      Ok, apply my comment to the MP’s with investment properties, it isn’t as if there aren’t any.
      
      It also isn’t as if deciding to buy multiple homes as a matter of convenience “because you can” isn’t influenced by the likelihood of making even more money out of them (in zero-sum capital gains) than if you invested the money somewhere else economically productive.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:14am
      - waikatogirl
        
        Didn’t Hulun have 6 or 8 investment properties?
        
        I seem to remember Mr Socialist TOPS saying some time ago he has 11 EMPTY houses gaining equity.
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:57am
    - pdm
      
      Note – Amy Adams has no rentals!!!
      
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      August 29, 2017 11:52am
  - calendar girl
    
    “But if MP’s need to divest themselves of shares to remain untainted by hints of corruption in governing, why does property get a free pass?”
    
    There’s a significant difference, at least in relation to residential property. If Poli A owns or seeks to own shares in a specific company, he/she could benefit substantially, and individually, from gaining “inside knowledge” about its unpublished accounts, its immediate business moves, a forthcoming takeover offer, etc. Such “inside knowledge” could be traded for political favours from Poli A, and become the currency of bribery.
    
    The same risk does not apply to a residential property (for example). Most people in the general public can readily obtain information on likely selling values of residential properties (e.g. from openly-accessible Quotable Value, or from multiple land agents). So there is generally no “privileged information” from which Politician A could make unusual gains that were unavailable to other buyers or sellers in the market. Housing properties tend to move up or down ‘en masse’ (with shades of variation area by area, or through obvious improvements), so the question of “inside knowledge” does not arise, or lend itself to bribery of politicians.
    
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    August 29, 2017 5:18pm
- srylands
  
  “WTF has he been doing?”
  
  Since 2008 he has been making $160K a year as an MP. Tidy salary but hardly richville these days. Before 2008 he was probably making much much less.
  
  I don’t know whether he has kids etc. I’m just saying that I don’t think he has had lots of dough coming his way in life to use to accumulate assets.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:00am
- Gabby
  
  I believe he may own a chain of chop suey joints dangledung.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:08am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  It might be a do-er upper that needs high investment.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:44am
  - Gabby
    
    That would be in a trust surely.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:45am
Paulus Gnome

Mr Peters, I have in an envelope, in my possession, the name of the person who leaked your pension details to the media.

Mr Peters, rearrange the shoe is foot other on the.
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August 29, 2017 8:02am
Inandout

How many tourists fail to claim their GST on goods purchased in NZ? I know when we go to Oz we rarely claim it back, so in effect tourists pay more than Labour’s $25.
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August 29, 2017 8:03am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Quite so. Having to actually show the stuff to the officials is a pain in the butt if it’s large enough that it has to go in your checked luggage.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:07am
- cmm
  
  You’re only supposed to claim the GST on stuff you take out of the country, not on goods and services consumed while you are in the country.
  
  The only place you’ll really be dodging GST is in duty free stores etc and people buying overpriced manuka honey and deer velvet to take home.
  
  Thus, for most visitors, the vast majority of their expenses (transport, food, accomodation,…) incur GST.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:15am
  - Inandout
    
    My lovely wife buys clothes and shoes that runs into many dollars in total when in Oz. I am sure tourists to NZ buy more than just food and petrol. My point is just about every tourist contributes much more than $25 to our economy while visiting here.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:45am
    - Gabby
      
      The 200 odd ratepayers somehow responsible for furnishing them with million dollar loos are grateful for your support downanout.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:10am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, chances are you spend $200 before you’ve even left the airport. There’s $26 of GST already.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:15am
sam green

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Leakage from MSD? Perhaps Anne Tolley needs a pair of “depends”.
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August 29, 2017 8:08am
- cmm
  
  People don’t leak to the responsible minister. That is far too risky as a career move.
  
  Much easier to leak directly to the media or to someone with a grudge.
  
  MeTu still has the marks for WP’s teeth on her bum. She would be happy to be able to give back. Nobody plays utu better than two Maori politicians.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:22am
- sam green
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Andrea Vance @avancenz
  Paula Bennett was also told by SSC about Peters’ pension overpayments. Was told alone – and says she didn’t tell anyone else.
  8:25 AM · Aug 29, 2017
  5 Retweets
  4 Likes”
  
  Nah – she wouldn’t tell anyone.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:36am
  - Inandout
    
    The media have far more to gain by stabbing National, so the theory that a Labour sympathising public servant (aren’t they all?) has squealed, does hold water.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:50am
    - mikenmild
      
      No, they all are not. And the vast majority of them would not leak personal information for a partisan political purpose.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:32am
      - kowtow
        
        “Gone by lunch time”
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:44am
  - sam green
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It’s not like Bennett’s got form or anything.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:57am
    - GazzaW
      
      Show us the form Sam. You’re all BS.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:36am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Fine figure of a woman, is that what you are saying?
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:48am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    If you have evidence that Paula Bennett is the source of the leak, feel free to table it Sam. Otherwise you are just making another baseless smear.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:01am
    - sam green
      
      Ask Vance. I simply posted her tweet.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:05am
      - RF
        
        Vance.. Vance.. Vance. I am certain I have heard that name previously. Maybe connected with a failed MP called Dunne.
        
        Something to do with exchanging emails and the leaking of confidential GCSB info and the Kitteridge report.
        
        People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:33am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Can’t think for yourself?
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:49am
      - sam green
        
        Oh dear Rachael Membery.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:55am
    - sam green
      
      You would agree however that Bennett has “leaky” form?
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:06am
      - mikenmild
        
        Does anyone find it unimaginable that Bennett would leak such information?
        Probably we will never know, but these are politicians – that’s the sort of thing they do.
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:33am
      - starboard
        
        Stoooooopid boy
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:36am
      - sam green
        
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7482635/Bennett-won-t-rule-out-releasing-beneficiary-details
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:54am
  - Gabby
    
    I guess one advantage of a dodgy past is there are folk in all kinds of places who owe you favours or are owed.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:13am
  - rangitoto
    
    More leaks ?
    
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    August 29, 2017 11:25am
- Gabby
  
  ‘Depends’ on what hat Bingles is wearing.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:11am
cmm

Stuff: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96249118/winston-peters-super-mistake-culprit-unknown

Man up Winnie. You leak like a sieve. You’d dish the dirt on people every day of the week if you could.

So coming crying “dirty politics” when it happens to you is complete bullshit.

I know you aren’t very good at sums, but try this one:

158000 + 18000 = ???
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August 29, 2017 8:08am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  $158,000.00 + $18,000.00 – $18,000.00 = $158,000.00 outstanding
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:16am
  - cmm
    
    Teachers pet! Reading ahead. They’re only teaching subtraction next week.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:25am
- Chris R
  
  I am still unconvinced that there’s a story here, let alone a scandal. I think the vortex rests in the incompetence of MSD staff. Is it not possible that the leak came for NZ First itself?( ie Winston to assuage his greater transgressions rather than to be compared with the vile Turei?)
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:57am
  - peterwn
    
    As far as I can see, there was no incompetence on the part of MSD staff in dealing with this matter. It seems the matter came to light through data matching with IRD and MSD staff dealt with it in a professional manner with a satisfactory outcome. One exception, MSD management should not have informed the Minister (assuming they did) even if a ‘no surprises’ policy was in place.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:20am
    - Chris R
      
      MSD paid Winston more than their prescribed payment schedule dictates. The form was completed 7 years ago by Winston and accepted. After that happened a staff member triggered a higher rate than the application form dictated. It was without doubt an in-house slip.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:25am
  - cmm
    
    There might not be any fraud and there might not be any crime, but this all makes WP look a bit seedy.
    
    WP gets a lot of his support from the pensioners who live on the super without rorting it.
    
    WP gets over $200k per year in salary and baubles. Plus he’s in line for a HUGE MP’s pension when he retires. So it looks a bit grabby that he’s also claiming the super and now looks like he just can’t help himself and takes an extra $60 per week or whatever it is.
    
    Now don’t get me wrong, he is legally allowed to claim the super, but to do so on top of his other income just looks a bit seedy when his major support base only have the super + any hard earned savings.
    
    That’s where I think it will hurt him, not as a direct scandal, but just the people who supported him being turned off.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:23am
    - Chris R
      
      So: Are you suggesting everyone ought to means-test themselves and then decide whether to claim the super payments? If that’s the case there’d be many who appear “a bit seedy.”
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:27am
      - cmm
        
        “Are you suggesting everyone ought to means-test themselves”
        
        Not at all.
        
        I am just suggesting that it might just look a bit seedy to the pensioners who have to live on this income without the $200k “top up” from being an MP.
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:54am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Isn’t everything a scandal when announced breathlessly by the media?
    Not as breathlessly as Jaciiiinda rhymes with….?
    
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    August 29, 2017 3:29pm
RF

The witch smellers – barely Sober & Smelly are heading a lynch mob to hang National for the release of information concerning the overpayment to Peters.

Hell even horse thieves received a fairer trial before being strung up.

Just heard Sober again trumpeting that he had no doubt National released the information.

He has earned his retainer from Labour this week.
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August 29, 2017 8:09am
- KevOB
  
  Journalists should require licensing if they are to be that cavalier with facts.
  
  One cannot tell if Soper has any knowledge, a little, some misinformation or just wishes what he states dressed up as factual. Damage without care is at best improper and may be illegal or criminal.
  
  A leak from IRD is unprecedented. Tax confidentiality is one of the highest classes in NZ.
  Have we a new risk–belief justifies any means of opposition?
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:38am
  - doggone7
    
    If journalists need licensing if they are to be cavalier with facts, do Ministers need licensing if they are to be cavalier with private information?
    
    At the moment Tolley and Bennett knew the Peters stuff. Wayne Eagleson knew. He said he didn’t tell anyone. Did that mean he didn’t tell English?
    
    Who do we make the licence out to?
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:45am
- Ross12
  
  I don’t think Soper is on the Labour bandwagon this time. I think he and his wife are well and truly behind Winston.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:03am
oldpark

Sounds like Angry Andy Little’s replacement from joined at the hip Lie-bour/Green Party,will today make an announcement to buy votes by way of offering “free” tertiary education if they win the election. Of course millions of dollars,to pay for the “free” education,will be indirectly funded by people on fixed incomes,such as pensioners,and superannuates. The money is promised to the pensioners and superannuates,should National win the election.
If the “free” education bribe announced today ,by Angry Andy Little’s replacement is successful,the poor old fixed income people will be denied the promised money,in fact no tax cuts.
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August 29, 2017 8:11am
- tf78
  
  Universities are no longer educational, they’re are brain washing depots. I thought we needed more tradespeople – this money should be going to apprenticeship schemes instead of having to import tradies – not a very good start in that regard.
  
  Anyone worth their salt that wants to be a professional of some sort will happily fund their own way through uni and be rewarded in a high paying career.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:21am
  - PhilBest
    
    Absolutely, one of the biggest failures and desertions of the political battleground we have seen from the “centre-right” is their failure to wind back the other sides deployment of gobs of taxpayer’s money in pursuing their own political ends, eg brainwashing students.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:49am
  - mikenmild
    
    Got any evidence of this ‘brain washing’? Other than younger people with university degrees treating your ideas with amused contempt?
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:35am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      I would say that I witnessed the indoctrination first hand while studying at Waikato,
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:56am
      - mikenmild
        
        Yet somehow, your brain remained unwashed?
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:02pm
    - KevOB
      
      I met a teacher recently: where had she gotten her irrational biases from? I’m moderately tolerant, and shes family, but the damage that had been inflicted..
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:17pm
  - Lance
    
    Physics, Maths, Architecture and Engineering are all brainwashing depots and they no longer engage in education?
    
    I call bullshit on that.
    
    Sounds like a drunken half-witted rant at the pub.
    
    If you were to say some departments like Political Studies etc are leftist leaning then that might be fair comment.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:03am
    - PhilBest
      
      Not at all, if that is where the expansion of “education” budgets had been going rather than in the creation of esoteric useless courses by activists with an agenda (masquerading as “academics”) I would have no objection. Funding should be tied to the evident needs of employers.
      
      If you want some arty-farty degree then you should have to win a scholarship funded by voluntary benefactors, don’t spend my taxes on giving hordes of useless young idiots the option as part of a lifestyle choice.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:19am
- Kabull
  
  The Labour siblings – PPTA and NZEI – have moaned for years about the ‘costs’ of educating primary & secondary kids in our ‘free’ system. I would have thought it would be more value to put the sack of dough they obviously have into reducing the cost of education at that level rather than creating yet more graduates looking for work.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:40am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yet more graduates with useless degrees, looking for work.
    
    Fixed that for ya.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:49am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Children can be indoctrinated with socialist faff, while graduates get to act on that indoctrination in the polling booth.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:12am
  - Paulus
    
    Primary and Secondary pupils do not vote !
    
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    August 29, 2017 2:14pm
- KevOB
  
  Whites don’t count either according to their lack of representation in the Labour Queens commercial.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:45am
  - tf78
    
    In the Labour add “I am ready” (for what you may ask). There is no “I” in team, but there is a “ME”.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:48am
- Ross12
  
  If this free tertiary ed. is the new policy I think it could back fire. The so called millennials who are paying off their loans or have paid them off will be really annoyed, so they may end up losing some or maybe a lot of those votes.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:01am
  - KevOB
    
    It’s called equity. Why should those who have paid back loans or still paying them not have the same treatment? Are they not citizens too.
    
    It’s right to offer benefits to promote some specialist recruitment but to offer freebees to all but those who have already paid is unfair.
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:24pm
- calendar girl
  
  Former PM Clark made student loans interest-free as a 2005 Election policy.
  
  Now she is behind the scenes advising on Labour’s 2017 campaign. Why would we be surprised by a sudden “free tertiary education” promise 3½ weeks out from the Election?
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:26am
  - mikenmild
    
    Now, if it were tertiary ‘boot camps’, we’d all be in favour.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:36am
Manolo

Brussels knows it all:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/08/28/height-irony-michel-barnier-lecture-britain-terrorism/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, has taken it upon himself to lecture the UK about the dangers of stoking terrorism because of the “very practical consequences, including on defence and security” of Brexit.

Coming from the spokesman for an institution that has singularly failed to secure its external borders against mass immigration, this admonition carries a heavy irony.
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August 29, 2017 8:13am
- PhilBest
  
  But it is entirely consistent with the underlying EU and global elites intention. Europeans to become strangers in their own lands, swamped by immigrants bringing and imposing their own illiberal cultures.
  
  You neither close the borders nor dare to “offend” the immigrants nor dare to try and set the domestic situations in their own countries of origin to rights. You just submit to the treasonously imposed euthanasia of your own culture.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:54am
brett68

I struggle to believe that National leaked this.
They need to get onto this fast and try and pin down where it came from otherwise the left wing media will stitch up National.

Why would National try and take out its only coalition partner that will get them across the line and into government? they wouldn’t

Personally, I believe this to be a Labour and Green party run hit, take Peters out of the equation so it’s just Labour/Greens running the show after the election, Peters would be a huge hand brake on their grandiose plans of turning NZ into the socialist paradise the left so desperately want.
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August 29, 2017 8:14am
- VicParking
  
  WO this morning is saying as much that it was Eagleson from the PM’s office. Red Radio is also hinting this saying Eagleson is a political appointment and should not have been given the the story “This close to an election”
  As WO is all for transperancy and no “Dirty politics” if a course it come to court, will he offer to be a witness?????
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:22am
  - Inandout
    
    Slater’s war on National is puzzling, unless of course he think a chaotic Lab/Green regime would be good for his blog.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:55am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Nothing puzzling about it at all. He has a pathological hatred of Bill English, and is now doing everything he can to undermine English.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:07am
      - GazzaW
        
        Some sort of family vendetta I believe KS. I did hear that Bill upset Slater Senior when he was president of the Nats.
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:40am
      - Tarquin North
        
        I still can’t work him out. I know he has a Collins fetish, but surely he can see the bigger picture? Obviously not which makes him a lose cannon and a liability – probably why he doesn’t seem to spout on about how successful he is anymore.
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:40am
      - KevOB
        
        WO is tribal in his own world and belief system. That is as far as he will ever go unless he is ejected by litigation.
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:27pm
  - Gabby
    
    Where is Jason Evil?
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:29am
- oldgolfer
  
  I can’t believe they would, either; there is too much at stake. It’s hardly Tolley’s style.
  Of course, those touting the story over the weekend know, but they won’t tell
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:24am
- KevOB
  
  Such a leak would have been relatively easy for an IRD staffer with suitable data access. No Minister would dare ask for fear of a refusal. Legal access is for the CIR and those delegated by him.
  
  It is a serious breach of the law and the applicable laws express that. It would render future public service impossible. That’s a line that IRD staff are very fearful to cross. They frequently have to know everything but an outsider should not even be aware that a staffer might have knowledge.
  Inside the department there were walls too protecting different classes of sensitive information.
  
  This would have an unlawful individual act.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:57am
  - RF
    
    It’s human nature to pillow talk about interesting gossip.
    
    Peters has been a smart prick during his political career so someone would have seen it as pay back for his double standards.
    
    My money is either someone from the ministry or IRD sharing information to a third party and it’s spread from there.
    
    Don’t forget the media has great confidential sources and willing to pay for good bully. There have also been prosecutions where debt collectors have paid WINZ staff for address details.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:18am
- Ambergris
  
  I agree with you brett.
  
  The media are full of how National would see the leaked information as being of benefit to its chances. If that is so then they (National) really don’t deserve to win the election because its a stupid idea. Leaking such information carries far too much risk for National. Surely they would see that with the help of the MSM public suspicion would fall on them right away! .
  
  The party which benefits the most from the leak is Labour. If its true that Labour shafted the Green’s then the release of this information about Peters is a really clever move which complements the move on the Greens.
  
  Now we have a situation where the actual information is having no effect and National are being blamed for all sorts of bad things. NZ First are not damaged, but if this sticks National will lose a few more % and a Labour/NZ First Government becomes likely.
  
  Also Whaleoil says he has known about this for some time. If that’s correct then you can bet Labour have also known.
  
  Are National really that stupid? Or is this another very clever Labour inspired hit?
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:25am
  - mikenmild
    
    Your wishful thinking is entertaining.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:38am
- Gabby
  
  SNOWBALL did this!
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:28am
- MCos
  
  “Why would National try and take out its only coalition partner”
  Pretty obvious, I would have thought.
  If NZ1st crash & burn the thinking could be that the votes would go to National – if they got away with it.
  
  Personally I think the risks are far too high for someone at the top of the National heap to leak this information.
  However until the culprit is identified it suits Winston & Labour just fine for the impression to gather momentum.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:16am
VicParking

Guyon’s inteview with the Tooth Fairy on Red radio this morning went as expected. Only lasted 10 minutes of which five minutes was on Winstons overpayment allowing Taxinda to do a hit job on Tolly. When pressed on Tax she offcourse palmed it off with the “Tax Group” will decide line. No pressure from Espiner at all, no interruptions, patsy questions with no depth. It was also plain she had the questions beforehand buy the way he answers were so slick and “read”
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August 29, 2017 8:16am
- Paulus
  
  The fuckwit from the ACT Party was being interviewed by Susi Ferguson where she did not interrupt him, as he was making a fool of himself, all by himself.
  He implied that it was Tolly who leaked the information to the media.
  Now we have decided that we will vote Two Blues when we had thought of a Party vote for what we now see as a puerile naive idiot.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:27am
Manolo

Incompetent or traitor?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/200000-deportation-cases-quietly-closed-under-obama/article/2632724

During the Obama era up to 200,000 deportation cases were “administratively closed” without action, a move that left tens of thousands of illegal immigrants free to roam America, sometimes indefinitely, according to a new report.
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August 29, 2017 8:16am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  …. left tens of thousands of illegal immigrants free to roam America and vote for Hillary
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:40am
  - kowtow
    
    Free to roam and commit crime against the citizenry.
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:07pm
Nigel Kearney

On the subject of Trump pardoning Arpaio, I see our media are spinning this as as some kind of unprecedented political interference in the judicial system. But every pardon or commutation involves the executive unilaterally altering the effect of a judicial decision. For reference, here are the total number of times the last four Presidents have done this:

Trump: Just 1 so far I believe
Obama: 1927
Bush Jr: 200
Clinton: 457
Bush Sr: 77
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August 29, 2017 8:16am
- VicParking
  
  And as far a Trump was concerned one of his “pardoning’s ” was a transgender solider who leaked state secrets.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:24am
  - Ross12
    
    I think you mean Obama , Vic ( not Trump)
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:05am
    - VicParking
      
      Woops
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:30am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        How fake news happens 😉
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:02am
  - gump
    
    Chelsea Manning wasn’t pardoned by Obama. She spent seven years in jail during his administration.
    
    What actually happened was that the remainder of her sentence was commuted. Her convictions have not been over-turned (as they were for Joe Arpaio).
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:10am
    - PhilBest
      
      Most of O’s pardons and commutations were in his last days, presumably so his time in office wouldn’t be marred by the obvious scope for attacking him on them, nevertheless getting the treasonous job done, of letting scores of dangerous enemies of the American public back out. And the MSM obligingly ignored it.
      
      It is because the American public does get to know a lot of this via alternative sources, that the MSM can be beaten by a deliberate head-on fight by a battler politician. I hope this lesson is learned throughout the west. John Ansell has been suggesting exactly what Trump is doing, for more than a decade, and he picked Trump for winning the Presidency right in the early primary stages, like Scott Adams and Ann Coulter did.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:25am
    - kowtow
      
      He.
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:08pm
      - PhilBest
        
        And “his”
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:35pm
- Paulus
  
  But it is the Washington Post Herald who are creating a situation on Arpaio.
  What do you expect from these liars.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:29am
- RF
  
  Nigel….
  
  Don’t forget. It’s ok when the left do it.
  
  The Kenyan has no shame.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:35am
- oldpark
  
  Also the daddy of them all. Chelsea Manning the traitor got 35 years for treason,and Obama pardoned that person.Talk about selective morality by the sicko Mainstream Media ,here and in USA.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:36am
  - PhilBest
    
    Absolutely, absolutely. Glad we are bringing this up. Don’t know what I can add, just feeling like throwing up.
    
    Except here is the relevant bits from the Kurt Schlichter column I recommend below:
    
    “…I also support fighting back because you cannot simply sit back and allow yourself to be repeatedly beaten and humiliated without utterly destroying your side’s morale. Denying the enemy the head of Sheriff Joe had tangible value beyond its substantive justice (Jury? We don’t need no stinking juries to put an American citizen in prison!)…”
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:03am
  - Gabby
    
    Why do you lie oldfart? Jesus cries when oldfarts lie. Manning wasn’t pardoned. Treat yourself and google it.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:45am
- mikenmild
  
  The most unusual thing about this pardon is that it came well before the end of the judicial process. Arpaio had not even been sentenced for his reckless and egregious contempt of court orders. So pardoning him so prematurely brings a risk of undermining the judiciary.
  Some have suggested this pardon alone would provoke impeachment articles in a less partisan Congress.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:41am
  - Kimbo
    
    To be fair , Trump blowing his nose could inspire speculation of impeachment in the American media. Is a bizarre relationship they have with Trump – each loathes one another, much more than is the case with any other politician-media relationship, yet they are in a symbiotic relationship of mutual benefit – again much more than the usual unhappy forced marriage between press and politicians! Richard Nixon can only wish he lived in the days of twitter!
    
    Oh, yes, it may be unusual, but unless anyone can show “what did the President know and when did he know it” when it came to some corrupt gain for Trump, then the POTUS certainly has the power to pardon anyone, anytime, no explanation or justification required. The legacy of their constitution, where the original drafters couldn’t conceive of any other sort of executive than an 18th Century elected monarch.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:21am
    - PhilBest
      
      “…Trump blowing his nose could inspire speculation of impeachment in the American media…”
      
      Beautifully put!
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:36am
      - kowtow
        
        One I read recently was
        
        “If Trump cured cancer they’d blame him for doctors and nurses losing their jobs.”
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:11pm
  - PhilBest
    
    It’s saved the whole process from going through the courts up to the top level to have the activist judges decisions reversed.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:27am
    - mikenmild
      
      You think Arpaio was innocent of defying a court order?
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:28am
      - PhilBest
        
        From which court and which judges? These things matter in the USA as it has become. Partisan political hackery, not “the rule of law” at all.
        
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        August 29, 2017 10:38am
      - mikenmild
        
        I’ll Google the details for you, Phil. For a fee.
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:01pm
  - Fletch
    
    Plus Arpaio was really only doing his job by going after illegal immigrants which is what law enforcement should have been doing in the first place.
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:02pm
    - mikenmild
      
      He was ‘only doing his job’ by deliberately disobeying court orders?
      
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      August 29, 2017 5:42pm
      - PhilBest
        
        http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/28/nolte-3-reasons-trumps-pardon-of-sheriff-joe-arpaio-is-awesome/
        
        “…Those arguing against Trump’s pardon rest much of their case on the fact that Arpaio violated a judge’s direct order. So what? That judge’s order illegally legalized illegal immigration. Naturally, with the help of a corrupt media, this contempt charge has been window dressed…
        
        “…The idea that a single judge can decide any persons’ innocence or guilt is un-American. I also wonder if Arpaio’s potential sentence wasn’t intentionally crafted to avoid a jury trial.
        
        No, from A to Z, this whole thing stinks…”
        
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        August 29, 2017 9:40pm
DifferentPerspective

Breaking news: Updated Political Compass

Just to help all the:
– racists
– neo-liberals
– neo-cons
– KKK
– hatemongers
– National supporters
– ACT supporters
– free speech advocates
– male patriarchy
– privileged whites

This should help you understand where you sit in the political landscape!

You are all alt-Right!
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August 29, 2017 8:20am
Odakyu-sen

“The Otahuhu delivery man was viciously beaten with a brick, punched and repeatedly stabbed in the back while waiting to collect papers in the early hours of Saturday morning.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11912669

What could be the possible back stories?
– The delivery guy somehow provoked his attackers?
– He somehow disturbed a crime in progress?
– The attackers were high on something?
– The attackers were gang prospects undergoing an initiation task to gain membership (why two of them, though?)
– The delivery guy has enemies?

What other motivations could there be? What did the attackers hope to gain from the attack?
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August 29, 2017 8:22am
- EAD_TWO
  
  Interesting – the attackers could be seen clearly but no description given:
  
  “Funnily enough they didn’t disguise themselves at all. They were dressed casually in black jumpers and a pair of longs, as if they were casually going out and doing their normal thing.”
  
  The issue of (non) profiling aside, have you ever noticed the way society is diverging into 2 very different directions – either extreme violence where life is cheap or extreme cuckoldery/passiveness where we expected to “focused on our cooking skills”, “take selfies”, find “safe spaces from microaggressions” and basically become Elois in a world of Morlocks?
  
  I’ve always lived (perhaps learned from my father) by the motto – “talk softly but carry a big stick, but those with such an outlook are becoming increasingly rare? It’s like watching a farmer about to release a flock of hens into the waiting wolves.
  
  http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-age-of-european-eloi.html?m=0
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:35am
  - RF
    
    We know who they are….. Don’t we.
    
    Typical of what you see hanging around in groups in the early hours of the morning.
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:47am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Not his 2$ car apparently.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:44am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I guess the down-ticker is triggered by the discussion of possible motives for a violent crime.
  
  News update: East Tamaki is not well-known for its safe spaces. (Is there anywhere in Auckland that you would call a “safe space”?)
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:47am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Especially as that $2 car comment was made by the victim.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:46pm
EAD_TWO

Now that they are no longer being “oppressed” by apartheid (I.e. expected to live up to a certain degree of civil conduct) the Africans in Africa are now reverting back to type:

http://www.newobserveronline.com/2017/08/hundreds-of-black-cannibals-in-south.html?m=0

Home Featured “Hundreds of Black Cannibals” in South African Village, Local Govt. Official Admits

“Hundreds Of Black Cannibals” In South African Village, Local Govt. Official Admits

August 23, 2017 5

Hundreds of black African cannibals have engaged in huge feasts on human flesh this year in the South African town of Estcourt, KwaZulu-Natal Province, a local government official has admitted—a day after four locals appeared in court charged with murder and conspiracy.

According to a report in South Africa’s News24 news service, more than 300—out of a village of only 971—have admitted to knowingly taken part in cannibalistic feasts this year under the orders of a local witch doctor.

The four arrested Africans, named as Nino Mbatha (32), Sthembiso Sithole (31), Lindokuhle Masondo (32), and Lungisani Magubane (30), appeared in the Estcourt Magistrate’s Court on Monday this week on charges of murder and conspiracy.

Just how bad does South Africa have to get before the natives demand the return of Apartheid (a system so bad that millions upon millions of blacks moved there from neighbouring countries in order to seek a better life).

If you can look through MSMs “Rainbow Nation” narrative, life in South Africa is worse for everyone except about the top 1% of the ANC & their cronies.
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August 29, 2017 8:23am
- mikenmild
  
  I’m not sure that just apartheid would be enough, EAD. Shouldn’t they want ‘modern’ national socialists in charge?
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:42am
- Gabby
  
  They weren’t eating warts were they EADolf? Surely they wouldn’t presume? They’d stick to bleks wouldn’t they?
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:49am
  - sam green
    
    Lol @ EADolf.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:41pm
oldpark

Heard an unhinged wee pest who goes under the name of Soper ,with a track record ,of being a Lie-bour/Green Party sycophant,put the boot into National on a radio show this morning.
Soper said they were responsible,for the hit on their potential running mate,Winston Peter,you know the person who still owes the taxpayer of $158,000 dollars,when he enjoined with the huge pledge card scam by Helen Clark in the 2005 election.
Soper knows and anyone who applies for superannuation,is asked the tax code for administration purposes. Any dummy who is still earning an income will put in the obvious code,certainly not the code that ensures tax deductions will be lesser. Wonder what part of that does he or Peters conveniently not want to understand.
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August 29, 2017 8:23am
- Paulus
  
  Having done the application for a pension there is a form to complete which includes you “marriage” status.
  And it is signed by the applicant as being a true statement.
  MSD have the original or photocopy I expect which is why Winston the incompetent applicant will not allow it to be released.
  Who leaked it is irrelevant sideshow typical of Peters.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:33am
Happychappy

You only have to go back and look at “paul scotts” comments yesterday on this blog to see there was a hit coming on National and Ann Tolley by Winston First.
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August 29, 2017 8:25am
KevOB

Queen Jacinda–Royal Progress.

The Labour adverts show a regal Jacinda: the car image we associate with her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Head of State.

Her subjects shown are select.
Where are the whites? Any white person other than Jacinda.

A degree in communications is not a right to govern. It doesn’t provide thought.
The Union courtiers are lining up to take over their positions; they will dicate who gets paid, how much and when.

Labour have gone mad. The team has no overall competency. Now they want us appreciate their jaw boning.

☑️☑️
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August 29, 2017 8:25am
- Kabull
  
  Haven’t you noticed that every time she opens her mouth the word coming out is ‘I’ – obviously she intends to rule by diktat without the backing of a competent team! Maybe that’s why her policy is being created on the fly without any in depth analysis.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:46am
  - KevOB
    
    Her ‘Ighness is apparent.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:05am
  - Gabby
    
    No that’s kabullshit, she’s the unthinking mouthpiece and puppet of the Dark Lord Sauron Clark.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:53am
    - KevOB
      
      She may be that as well.
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:31pm
  - KKKKatee
    
    She keeps on using the word “I”. In her universe no-one else appears to exist. I would describe her as a FIGJAM – “F. I’M GOOD JUST ASK ME’.
    Somebody should tell her that it’s not all about her, even though she thinks it is. Quite the little control freak I’m thinking.
    
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    August 29, 2017 5:18pm
    - sam green
      
      Quite the little jealous KKKKKKKKKKKatee I’m thinking.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:42pm
- PhilBest
  
  We have just had 8 years of a smile-and-wave King John from National, Jacinda might be Labour’s answer. But she might actually do policy that shifts the political spectrum her way, like Helen Clark did, so perhaps the comparison is unfair to Jacinda.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:08am
- Gabby
  
  White people don’t need governing do they Old Blatherer.
  
  Tulixpu
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:51am
Anne Glen Eden

Is America heading for a second civil war? Stuff asks.

It may well end in another civil war – let’s face it, on some level it already has. Trump hasn’t done this. He is not the ‘electorate’. He was elected by them. Whether he is President or not makes no difference to the underlying situation.

That situation lies in successive US governments, politicians, and the media refusing to listen or respond to their ‘people’. The Liberal / Left / globalist minority took control of all processes, decided what was ‘right’ in their ‘conscience’ and has consistently imposed their agenda on a people who don’t want it and/or don’t accept it.

This group is insistent that people should have no other voice and no other choice – and certainly should not be allowed to participate in their own governance. There is only one possible outcome to that, no matter who holds what view, and it is escalating violence.

World societies were developing organically, slowly improving standards of quality in human life. Then it was decided that either ‘progress’ wasn’t happening fast enough, that it wasn’t the ‘right’ progress, and that only the ‘enlightened’ few should be able to socially engineer societies. It was accompanied by the progression of the protest movement voicing their opinions on the streets to recognition that if they could get control of political and media power, they could impose their agenda at will and suppress all dissent. No-one else was to be able to protest because any different view is ‘illegitimate’. Now they have both political and media power and are still rioting on the streets, specifically to maintain their control.

In my opinion there are two levels of contrast with the Nazis. One can equate their social attitudes with the views of the KKK et al. The other can equate their desire for total control, belief in their total right to impose their agenda on ‘the people’, and the elimination of democracy with the Liberal / Left.

What is happening in the US is probably what would have happened in Germany if the Germans had been allowed any right of dissent. The Nazi ‘rallies’ comprised a people who were not ‘free’ and had no choice – all based on ‘I was ordered to do it’, on pain of death.

Personally, I prefer the possibility of civil war. than the historical Nazi outcome with its robotic bondage of the people.
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August 29, 2017 8:26am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘After the election, I made the point that Trump was a warning shot to the ruling class. They had to reform and Trump was that opening for them. If not, the next guy was not going to be as easy to deal with as Trump.’
  http://www.desertsun.co.uk/blog/?p=5334
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:44am
  - PhilBest
    
    Kurt Schlichter’s assessment:
    
    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/08/03/democrats-dont-actually-believe-in-democracy-n2363433
    
    “…you’re doubling down by trying to nullify the results of the election because you don’t like the fact that you’ve been rejected and that you’re out of power. Except we’re not going to simply shrug and go back to letting you dictate how we live.
    Donald Trump is a warning. Trump is the best case scenario. If you somehow depose him via your smarmy shenanigans, what comes along next is really going to upset you. You need to understand something.
    Trump is not our last chance. He’s your last chance.”
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:20am
    - Gabby
      
      Schlitz is a windbag full of empty threats isn’t he philly.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:55am
- mikenmild
  
  There is plenty of research confirming that ‘I was ordered to do it’ is bullshit.
  Most Germans either outright supported the Nazis, or were content to go along with them. The Nazis were never short of the willing executioners.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:45am
  - Kimbo
    
    Yep. Is a group-think thing. Same sort of weird thing has been happening around here lately, especially with the emotional over-stimulation of an election around the corner – howitis, holysheet and even kowtow demanding and/or endorsing the political assassination and/or execution of democratically-elected politicians in Western Europe and even NZ, or even people with whom they disagree. Human nature does not change. Where people make a mistake is ascribing it to a “German” thing. Sure, they had a tradition of discipline, and cohesion, but they were ordinary flesh and blood like us all.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:32am
    - PhilBest
      
      “Where people make a mistake is ascribing it to a “German” thing.”
      
      Not just that; ascribing it to everyone to the “right” of Nancy Pelosi, as if George W Bush, Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Winston Churchill, etc etc had stormtrooping goons silencing their political opponents, and stormtrooping goons silencing their political opponents is the right thing and not even worth historically recording when the Left does it.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:45am
    - Kimbo
      
      I’m more intrigued people in NZ say it happened under Muldoon, and he ruled NZ like his contemporary in Chile, Pinochet!
      
      But I note you ignored my reference to the “group-think” happening around here…
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:53am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        But I note you ignored my reference to the “group-think” happening around here…
        
        This blog has a limited pool of commenters.
        If you want a representative view of NZ thinking, then you have to go beyond one man’s blog.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:13am
      - Kimbo
        
        Sure. Agreed. Am surprised though, given DPF’s libertarian views, that an authoritarian often anti-intellectual conservatism seems to be thriving here lately.
        
        Then again, we all contribute and make it Kiwiblog what it is. But demanding political assassinations and executions?! FFS…
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:23am
      - mikenmild
        
        DPF is not responsible for people who do not share his political values commenting on his blog.
        I suspect I am personally closer to DPF’s liberal philosophy on more things than most of the National-leaning lemmings here, let alone the way-out-right cranks.
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:00pm
  - EAD_TWO
    
    Most Germans either outright supported the Nazis, or were content to go along with them.
    
    Quite a many of us still go along with them Milkmaid.
    
    But then again, our reading is probably not limited to high school history books, Hollywood and the MSM.
    
    Also, we’re capable of thinking critically and realise that dem Nazziis were not the genocidal maniacs that the Globalists made them out to be. We’ve read the Red Cross reports from the WWII Labour Camps for a start that despite their extensive time spent there, they could find no evidence of facilities to extinguish life.
    
    But then again, emotion rather than facts and rational analysis are always your currency of debate.
    
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    August 29, 2017 6:44pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Oh, we’re going to play “ho ho holocaust denier” again, are we?
      
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      August 29, 2017 6:46pm
      - EAD_TWO
        
        Oh, we’re going to play “ho ho, shut down all discussion” again, are we?
        
        I bet you wish we were in one of the 20 countries where I could be arrested for discussing this singular event in history don’t you?
        
        The funny thing is you label the Naaaazzzzis as the authoritarian ones. Take a look in the mirror ?
        
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        August 29, 2017 6:54pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Funnily enough, I seem to have to repeat the same things over and over again to you.
        Criminalising Nazi speech or symbols is inconsistent with ideals of free speech, and so I’m glad that is not the case here.
        Shawn might be able to update you on my other hopelessly liberal attitudes.
        Are there any Jews standing in the general election we should be particularly wary of?
        
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        August 29, 2017 7:00pm
  - realityczech
    
    milky your bigotry and racist attacks on Germans are noted. You twisted hateful little shit.
    
    The German people joined them as they were desperate. The socialist workers party offered a brighter future. They did not join on the promise of killing Jews and Slavs, or waging total war. Hitler deceived them.
    
    You know nothing and all you have is name calling and war propaganda best left in the past.
    
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    August 29, 2017 6:56pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Poor widdle Germans. Didn’t take Mein Kampf seriously, did they?
      
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      August 29, 2017 7:01pm
      - realityczech
        
        Poor widdle Jews. Didn’t take Mein Kampf seriously, did they?
        
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        August 29, 2017 7:08pm
- kowtow
  
  Why do you think the left lobby is so strong on “gun control” . It’s not gun control they want , they want to control society. The gummint will have the guns .
  I believe the NRA crowd in the US believe that and once the guns are gone they’ll come for the rest of your property.
  
  The Spanish civil war was also about private property. The socialists were going to fuck the land owning classes , the officer class in the army , the church etc . The nationalists knew that and had to forestall what was going to be a constitutional coup.
  
  Again ,why are the academics , the media , and all leftists so anti the Nationalist cause in Spain . Because they hate private property.
  
  Why have the Chavistas in Venezuela armed their socialist militias ? To control the country .
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:22pm
  - mikenmild
    
    You are re-fighting the Spanish Civil War? WFT?
    
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    August 29, 2017 5:47pm
- KevOB
  
  What you are expressing is what I have discerned as a worrying personality type. They showed up in our unionists some of whom constrained physical violence.
  Their views are unshakeable and reason is irrelevant: their will will prevail.
  
  How did we ever get so many?
  Is there an actual genetic component to this, a flaw may be?
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:48pm
cas

Yes Guyon Espiner was predictable this morning. Didn’t drill down into anything and was quite happy to let her talk jargon with no substance. I despair. Turned off Red Radio for our local station for 8am news and there was NOTHING about politics on the main news bulletin and only info about a candidates meeting on the regional. So refreshing.
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August 29, 2017 8:31am
- RF
  
  cas..
  
  Please be careful. If toothy gets in they intend to bring back gulags to re-educate disadents such as you.
  
  I hope National are keeping a running total on what toothy is promising as someone has to pay for these outlandish promises.
  
  I originally thought Labour would blow the surplus in its first term if it got in. Now I doubt the surplus will last 6 months.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:57am
  - Gabby
    
    But all the taxes rf rf. I’m sure you’ll find the fingers add up.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:56am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Fingers add up? I am checking that I still have all of mine.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:03am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        And I am missing part of one already.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:54am
    - Gabby
      
      Wasn’t rf rf rache, he just breaks ’em.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Red Radio has an audience of about 2000, consisting mainly of Wellington public servants. That is why their budget has remained static for years.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:03am
  - mikenmild
    
    I see now what you did there. A radio station with a ‘static’ budget.
    
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    August 29, 2017 6:48pm
    - Inandout
      
      You are on my wave length m&m, but please don’t broadcast it.
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:33pm
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Bye bye National – led Government … Perspectives from Australia …

NZ readies to toss its realty/immigration government … MacroBusiness Australia

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/08/nz-readies-toss-realtyimmigration-government-sea/

… extract …

… The very stupid reigning Nationals, led by the formerly astute immigration/housing sensitive turned stupid Bill English, sound positively barren by comparison, at The Australian: … read more via hyperlink above …

Access yesterday’s posts …

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/08/nationals_campaign_launch-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-2004330 … and … http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/08/general_debate_28_august_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2004335

… and Sundays …

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/08/general_debate_27_august_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2003563
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August 29, 2017 8:31am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Hugh – at the risk of repeating myself, trolling on DPF’s blog is poor form indeed. You don’t have to repeat links you posted on previous days; if we want to know what you think, we can find out for ourselves.
  
  What you are effectively doing, having been invited into DPF’s cyber-house, is shitting all over the furniture. I’m sure you would be offended if someone did that to you, either online or in real life. I admire DPF’s patience in continuing to allow you to participate here, but enough is enough.
  
  Free speech is one thing; freeloading is another, and that’s what you are doing, IMHO. From noiw on I will be reporting every comment you make that links back to other comments you have made, and I encourage others who feel you are abusing DPF’s generosity of spirit to do likewise.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:57am
- stigie
  
  Hugh, your hatred deserves to be posted on the Stranded, why not be a good lad and take it over there where they would welcome your hatred rather than clutter up the best blog in NZ !~
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:00am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    WHY HAS NATIONAL SCREWED UP SO BADLY WITH HOUSING ? …
    
    Why … after a decade since John Key made National’s position clear on housing issues …
    
    PM John Key on Housing Reform 2007 – YouTube
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPgoAI1cLE
    
    … has it failed so miserably a decade on, with a foundation of a public consensus on the issues, to get workable centre – right solutions in place … as I outlined at the time of the release of this year’s Demographia Housing Survey 23 January …
    
    Not PC: New Zealand’s housing consensus: Where is the political leadership ?
    
    http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/auckland-worlds-fourth-hardest-to-buy.html
    
    To assist the National Party as it is being deservedly (and thankfully for the country) sent in to ‘Opposition exile’ 23 September, mainly for its housing failures, here is a thought provoking earlier articles from Allister Heath of the UK (Tory) Telegraph …
    
    The real ticking time bomb for the Tories is home ownership – Telegraph
    
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11917816/The-real-ticking-time-bomb-for-the-Tories-is-home-ownership.html
    
    … with access to others …
    
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?source=hp&q=uk+telegraph+allister+heath+tories+housing+&btnK=Google+Search
    
    At the very least, it is super-dumb politics, just handing this hugely important issue and the government to the centre – left on a plate.
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:19am
    - stigie
      
      Hurry up Hugh, the Stranded awaits your cluttered shite !~
      
      2 1
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      August 29, 2017 9:27am
    - starboard
      
      ” Hic..Hic..Hic..burrrrp..ffarrt”..Doomed!
      (see hyperlink)
      
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      August 29, 2017 9:32am
- Rachael Membery
  
  You are an echo chamber to yourself, do you know of anybody that you have persuaded to your view?
  Not that I read anything much that you post.Or is that pest.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:50am
PhilBest

Today’s recommended remedial read for Kiwis starved of real political commentary:

“Conservatism Is Not A Suicide Pact”
By Kurt Schlichter

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/08/28/conservatism-is-not-a-suicide-pact-n2373543

“…I reject the notion we are ever somehow morally obligated by conservative principles to lose to liberals….I refuse to sit back and allow libs to be victorious because I won’t dirty my hands fighting fire with fire. If that makes me not conservative enough for some, I can live with that. I can’t live with leftist tyranny…

“… A couple weeks ago I wrote about how, now that the tech companies that dominate the flow of information and discourse in our society have decided to insert their politics into their businesses, we should use our political power to ruthlessly regulate them back into neutrality if they persist. It’s an awful idea, in principle, and I’d like to avoid it. But I’d also like to avoid conservatives being utterly banished from the internet.

What was the True Con response? “Free enterprise, blah blah blah.” Yeah, okay, got it. I sure appreciate the 411 on this newfangled “free enterprise” thing. (I should totally learn about it – thanks, 22-year old marketing major with a subscription to The Weekly Standard!) Lots of cant, but no concrete, coherent solutions. My favorite was the guy who suggested the solution was to start my own Google in my garage, except my garage is full of junk. Oh, and by the time we collected a few billion in capital and built an entire new tech mega-corp that somehow escaped being smothered by Google as we grew, every search on Google would return a link to something approved by Hillary Clinton…”
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August 29, 2017 8:31am
- EAD_TWO
  
  Even better reading for those “of the right”
  
  https://kakistocracyblog.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/a-strange-courage-grows/
  
  Cowardice is all that grows in the ashes of valor. I don’t know if that fact has been remarked upon previously. Just as I don’t know the number of words launched at observing how earnestly man deploys self-praise as salve for his frailties. Though if the lucid men of antiquity have left no record, it can only be because we have lurched beyond their insight.
  
  The ongoing invasion of the West, with its now routine attendant massacres, has revealed pockets of the human psyche that probably weren’t as apparent until being pulled open by modernity’s unique social mandates.
  
  Perhaps the most bizarre of these novel customs is the now requisite marches and proclamations that bloom from pools of European blood like mushrooms from compost. In every instance, the insistence is that the natives must do nothing whatsoever about the source of these attacks, as
  that would be giving in. Giving in to not being killed, raped, and colonized. This position–its advocates assure us–is one of “defiance.” But defiance of whom or what precisely is unclear.
  
  Certainly this gaudy display in Barcelona expresses no defiance toward those who smeared their countrymen across the asphalt. If Heather Heyer had been killed by this driver, no liberal would have ever spoken her name. In fact the father of the youngest victim has now conspicuously embraced and absolved the murderer’s tribal kindreds. For modern Europeans, it is only people who don’t want you dead that must be shunned.
  
  The high-volume mantra in these ostensibly defiant marches is WE ARE NOT AFRAID. But is barring your neck an act of courage or cowardice? Is denying or accommodating your enemies the more honest expression of resistance? Are these thousands of non-islamaphobic Spaniards actually standing up for themselves, or supplicating under false slogans of fortitude?
  
  In 1941 FDR didn’t say WE ARE NOT AFRAID while hugging Hirohito and acquiescing to imperial garrisons in Kansas City. He did what not afraid has historically entailed: he fought the Japanese–even the ones who didn’t personally bomb Pearl Harbor. It is only recently that bootlicking and obliviousness have come to be called bravery.
  
  If I saw my neighbors leave their young children unattended in the street, I would feel little admiration for their backbone if they explained WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF TRAFFIC.
  
  Similarly, whether a man is or is not afraid of cancer is less a comment on his courage than whether he fights the affliction vigorously, or lies down to die while muttering about carcinogenophobes.
  
  The truth of these defiance rallies is that they exist specifically to signal non-defiance. We surrender. Our home is yours. We’ll destroy any of our own who oppose you. Just please let us grovel in peace. This is what our ego demands we call courage. It’s the only thing that grows in the ashes of valor.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:23am
- Gabby
  
  Schlitz is one of those big gumming consevatives.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:59am
PhilBest

Sorry, there is a second one that I can’t ignore.

“Trump vs. the Enemies of the People”
BY ANDREW KLAVAN

https://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2017/08/27/trump-vs-enemies-people/

“…there’s a fourth major accomplishment too, unofficial and extra-governmental though it may be: Trump’s emotional torture of the press.

This is no small thing. It’s hero work, for my money. Trump hasn’t assaulted the First Amendment — as Obama did with his corruption of the IRS and Hillary would have with her pledge to overturn the Citizens United decision. But he has given sweet, well-deserved and genuinely holy hell to that corrupt arm of the Democratic Party that is generally called the Mainstream Media: the New York Times and the Washington Post and the like, the network news, and of course tiny little unwatched and unwatchable CNN.

That speech Trump gave on Tuesday in Phoenix calling out the media for their lies and bias — it was wonderful. It was so great I had to check with friends to make sure I was seeing the beautiful thing I saw. After a week and a half of dishonest and overblown media coverage of Trump’s remarks about the violence in Charlottesville, he crushed those lying skunks like Godzilla crushed Tokyo. I laughed and laughed with pure delight…

“…he never defended these racist creeps — as the Times and CNN and other outlets claimed he did. And he never said there were “very fine people” among the Nazis. He’s not the most articulate bloke, but I think it was clear he meant there are fine people who oppose the taking down of statues. He’s right, of course: I oppose it, and I’m an absolutely wonderful guy. Trump is also correct when he says that the masked and violent fascists who call themselves anti fascists are just as blameworthy as the Nazis-types. Even if you shout “equality” while you’re hitting people over the head, guess what? You’re still scum. There is no moral difference between balaclavas and white sheets, no matter what you pretend to espouse…

“…On top of this, the leftist mob outside the speech showed the country their true colors by rioting! CNN and CBS and the Times and every other Democrat outlet I saw tried to blame even that on Trump! But the country saw what it saw and all the lies in the world won’t wash the images away. The left is violent, and the mainstream left covers for them.

The white nationalists and the Anti-fas creeps are the worst people in the country. But the truth is, the moral gnomes of the Democrat-Media complex — who divide us, who gin up hysteria whenever they, the Democrats, don’t get their way – do a lot more damage. It’s they who tell us we’re an institutionally racist nation when we no longer are, who tell us that there’s only one legitimate view on each issue — theirs…”
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August 29, 2017 8:36am
- Anne Glen Eden
  
  “There is no moral difference between balaclavas and white sheets, no matter what you pretend to espouse…On top of this, the leftist mob outside the speech showed the country their true colors by rioting! … The left is violent, and the mainstream left covers for them….But the truth is, the moral gnomes of the Democrat-Media complex — who divide us, who gin up hysteria whenever they… don’t get their way – do a lot more damage. It’s they who tell us we’re an institutionally racist nation when we no longer are, who tell us that there’s only one legitimate view on each issue — theirs…”
  
  I couldn’t agree with that more – and it’s the same in NZ.
  
  It will become even moreso, much faster, if Ardern / Labour is elected.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:51am
  - mikenmild
    
    The left is violent, and the mainstream left covers for them
    
    The right is violent, but they have Anne to cover for them…
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:47am
    - PhilBest
      
      Ann, and Trump, condemning “violence on both sides” equates to “covering for the Nazis”, yeah, that level of commentary is really building credibility for those doing it.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:47am
      - mikenmild
        
        That’s pretty much it, Phil – hence the widespread condemnation of Trump to criticise his neo-Nazi supporters.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:57am
      - realityczech
        
        At least the [imaginary] “nazi” did not carry out mass killings like the groups Obama openly supported, even as their victims lay dead or in hospital.
        
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        August 29, 2017 5:20pm
Manolo

Some parasites are cunning and astute:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4829332/Harsher-measures-against-holidaying-refugees.html

Angela Merkel has said harsher measures should be taken against asylum seekers if they take a holiday in their country of origin. It comes after she insisted she had no regrets about her response to the migrant crisis of 2015.

‘Taking holidays in the country in which you are being persecuted is not on,’ she said in an interview with Welt am Sonntag, adding that it could be a reason to re-examine an asylum case.
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August 29, 2017 8:37am
Manolo

A sucker is born every minute…and the crook will be making a mint:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4830426/Hillary-live-Clinton-launching-book-tour.html

Hillary Clinton will be back in the spotlight this fall for an unprecedented, big-ticket book tour for her new tome What Happened, with tickets priced as high as $1,200.
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August 29, 2017 8:56am
sooty

The ferald is still pushing the bumbling bomber story. Suck it up snowflake, you were cock a hoop when it was the other way round. Owner Operator!
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August 29, 2017 9:07am
gump

Interesting story about the impending death of the coal industry in America.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/25/16201218/us-coal-industry-handouts
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August 29, 2017 9:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  Here’s one about the The strange rise of coal in the Middle East
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:56am
- Gabby
  
  Noooo, czitty’s going to be so cross.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:02am
- realityczech
  
  Coal is booming globally and in the USA. Hundreds of new coal power stations are planned across the developed world. We have seen nothing like this since the industrial revolution. A new age of coal has dawned.
  
  Sorry bout that 🙂
  
  US Coal Mining Up By 19% In 2017
  https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/26/us-coal-mining-19-2017-trump-fulfilling-campaign-promise/
  
  U.S. coal exports soar
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-coal-exports-idUSKBN1AD0DU
  
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  August 29, 2017 5:24pm
  - gump
    
    Perhaps you should read the article I linked.
    
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    August 29, 2017 5:53pm
    - realityczech
      
      Its fake. Coal use is going up with the decline of nuclear energy. Production is soaring. Reserves are enormous.
      
      Loser.
      
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      August 29, 2017 6:02pm
starboard

Awww poor widdle Winnie
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96253961/winston-peters-warned-he-was-being-taken-down-by-national

The sooner YOU go the better ya shit stirring old drunk. Chickens..roost.. and all that..
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August 29, 2017 9:29am
Keeping Stock

Ms Ardern is about to announce a $6b tertiary education policy, although I wonder if Newstalk ZB is a bit quick off the mark with its headline

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/vote2017/labour-unveils-6-billion-plan-to-help-students/
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August 29, 2017 9:39am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  This is $6b that has to come from somewhere. Read tax, tax and more tax from the diminishing number of net taxpayers.
  But at least the poor suckers who had to pay for their own tertiary studies won’t be voting for this blatant bribe, so hopefully it will never see the light of day.
  
  TWO TICKS BLUE!!!
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:50am
  - Gabby
    
    TULIXPU !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!! !!
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:04am
  - KevOB
    
    What about those who have already paid?
    Are labour going to borrow $20M from overseas to repay them to be fair?
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:56pm
Nev.

Massive hit job on National by the media at Stuff at the moment over Winnie. Not one of the articles or “Opinions” have comments open. MSM are as fucking disgrace.

Nev.
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August 29, 2017 9:40am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  The MSM don’t need to hear opinions from the readers!
  
  The MSM still work on the basis that it is their job to tell the plebs what their opinions should be? Comments just get in the way of their propaganda!
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:46am
- Gabby
  
  Unless Labour turn out to have a bunch of ministers in cabinet, that’s predictable.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:05am
- Carrion Baggage
  
  They would only delete or hide comments they don’t agree with. Engineering public opinion is the mainstay of the media these days.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:33am
starboard

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96253599/live-on-the-campaign-trail

“Labour will increase the amount students can get in student allowances and living cost loans by $50 a week, and fast-track its already-announced plan to make three years of post-secondary education free”

Wheres is all the extra dosh coming from ?
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August 29, 2017 9:45am
- RalphT
  
  My back pocket. Not I fear but I know.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:49am
- Manolo
  
  From yours and mine MUCH higher taxes, dear starboard.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:50am
- krazykiwi
  
  What dosh? It doesn’t matter.
  
  Jacinda supporters generally don’t care/understand, and the media generally aren’t asking the hard questions.
  
  The glorious Socialist Paradise is advanced by complacency.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:51am
- waikatogirl
  
  That is a very good question for Bill to ask Cindy at the debate on Thursday night.
  
  Show us the money Cindy!!!
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:57am
- GazzaW
  
  $1400 each from every man, woman and child in NZ. That’s where it’s coming from.
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:34pm
cas

If there were any decent journalists left they might ask Jacinda for the terms of reference for her Tax working party. If they can’t tell us that they will put on a capital gains, wealth and asset tax etc because someone has to tell them it’s a good idea, then surely we should know the exact terms under which they are to report? Or will someone tell me I’m just dreaming?
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August 29, 2017 9:47am
- mikenmild
  
  What’s wrong with a tax working party?
  Did you criticise John Key for establishing working parties, or the 20/20 Taskforce?
  Odds are pretty good that a new government will ignore expert advice – they have ample precedent for doing so.
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:49am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Yes indeed, Comrade Helen used this tactic to lie about implementing far left wealth re-distribution policies for nine years – it’s only fair that Jacinda is allowed to use the same dishonest tactic to turn NZ into Venezuela!
    
    Trust “experts” from the unions and academia – they’ll have the nation’s best interests at heart for sure – pass me another Tui!
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:12am
    - GazzaW
      
      ‘Experts’ such as Brian Gould, Margaret Wilson, Jane Kelsey and any other retired troughers that Labour owes favours to.
      
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      August 29, 2017 12:39pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Helen Clark, where is Michael Cullen?
        
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        August 29, 2017 2:16pm
  - KevOB
    
    No taxes with out a mandate.
    No mandate is possible after the election.
    No facts makes a mandate impossible.
    
    Basic constitutional history:
    Taxation requires the consent of the governed.
    
    4 2
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    August 29, 2017 1:00pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Anything else that can’t be done unless explicitly detailed by a party before an election?
      And no coalition agreements allowed either, I guess.
      
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      August 29, 2017 1:59pm
      - Shawn Herles
        
        Taxation effects people’s budgets. It effects family budgets. It’s reasonable to insist that a party is upfront about how much people are going to be taxed, so people can vote accordingly.
        
        “And no coalition agreements allowed either, I guess.”
        
        I know it’s hard mikey, but try to be less stupid.
        
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        August 29, 2017 2:07pm
- starboard
  
  ” tell ya later, just believe us, comrade”…
  
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  August 29, 2017 9:50am
  - kowtow
    
    “Tax your litre, let’s do this”
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:24pm
sooty

Labour giving out free basket weaving classes again.
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August 29, 2017 9:50am
Prince

English should make a public statement that he has reviewed with his ministers and he accepts the assurance there was no leak from them or their staff.
Further, if Peters is unable to accept that assurance, he should make that clear, so there is no doubt regarding who Peters, and for that matter English, could enter coalition with after the election.

And with regards to free tertiary education, what happens to those who have completed/are completing expensive professional training, eg Doctors, Lawyers, Architects etc. How can they recover their sunk costs in a market where new entrants have no such costs ?
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August 29, 2017 9:52am
- Gabby
  
  Bingles would have to assemble them along with their hat collections and their phones and sworn statements from their offices, and delete ‘deliberately’ and ‘knowingly’ from their claims, to be very convincing.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:10am
  - GazzaW
    
    Unless you’re going to say anything intelligent why don’t you just fuck off Gobby. I’m pretty sure my opinion represents 99.5% of KB readers. Just do us a favour and go.
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:44pm
    - mandk
      
      Gabby is the socially inept and unliked kid in school who clamours for attention with stupid comments, but who is just a pain in the arse for everyone else.
      
      It should go elsewhere, but it won’t do so.
      
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      August 29, 2017 1:19pm
      - starboard
        
        ..Like the middle of the motorway
        
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        August 29, 2017 2:35pm
Swifty

While is Peters even taking the damn pension given he’s still working fulltime and may well do so for some years to come.

Hell, he’s in the top 1% of salary earners in NZ already and I’ve got mates in Ring Terrace – Winnie’s house is worth squillions.

My parents didn’t take the pension until they retired. Said “it just doesn’t seem right, pensions are for those who have stopped working.”

Yeah, no worries Winnie, I’ll pay…..
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August 29, 2017 9:57am
- Keeping Stock
  
  To be fair, Peters was in a voter-led hiatus from Parliament when he turned 65 and became eligible for superannuation.
  
  He is, of course, one of the few MP’s left whose arrival in Parliament was early enough for him to qualify for the gold-plated MP super scheme.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:03am
  - Swifty
    
    Fair point.
    
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    August 29, 2017 1:23pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Surely his partner ‘owns’ half 😉 so would only be half a squillion.
  As a potential PM? (sarc) what do we know about his partner?
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:08am
  - Gabby
    
    Pullya may be able to help if you want to know more rache.
    
    3 12
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    August 29, 2017 10:30am
    - Prince
      
      Sigh. Another day of the 6 year old and the silly names.
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:48am
      - sam green
        
        OK Prince – cast that lens re silly names about fairly.
        
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        August 29, 2017 12:11pm
      - Gabby
        
        What’s that in dog years prince?
        
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        August 29, 2017 8:18pm
dime

Had a look at Whale Oil cause its election time…

fuck its a hard read.

im starting to think WO has a problem with national lol

who is he pimping for the election? winnie?
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August 29, 2017 9:59am
- Keeping Stock
  
  ABB – Anyone But Bill
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:04am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Utu
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:08am
  - Garbageman
    
    You are noticeable by your absence over there these days KS has his never ending bullshit finally turned you off as it has most others apart from his devoted flock
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:52am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      I seldom go there now Garbageman. I can’t really see the point.
      
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      August 29, 2017 2:43pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I want my donation to Whaleoil back. I felt sorry for him once, never a good reason to give a donation.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:09am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh lordy, lordy, lordy.
    
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/children-mistake-repeat-accident-kid-mom-mfln6334_low.jpg
    
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    August 29, 2017 11:21am
- Gabby
  
  dim’s gettin disingenuous
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:12am
Manolo

Good on him:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/28/trump-slams-obama-and-clinton-for-their-clemency-decisions-stands-by-arpaio-pardon.html

President Trump fired back Monday at critics of his decision to pardon former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, claiming the clemency decisions made by his two Democratic predecessors were far more problematic.

“I stand by my pardon of Sheriff Joe,” Trump said at a White House press conference.

Clearly anticipating a question about the pardon, Trump read from prepared notes as he countered the bipartisan criticism by rattling off the controversial commutations and pardons issued by former presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

“President Obama commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning, who leaked countless sensitive and classified documents,” Trump said, calling Manning a “criminal leaker.”
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August 29, 2017 10:02am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  GJ Manolo – you beat me to it!
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:07am
- dime
  
  but stuff and the herald said what trump did was the worstest thing ever!!!
  
  stuff now running an “article” where tony abbott said trump is risking losing the presidency wah wah
  
  i guess he would know all about losing office?
  
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  August 29, 2017 11:13am
DifferentPerspective

Presidential pardons Obama vs Trump

So the lying MSM are up in arms about Trump pardoning Arpaio.

“Unconstitutional, outrageous, unbecoming of the office etc etc.”

Yet for 8 years there was utter MSM silence as Obama set a new record as he pardoned hundreds of traitors, drug-dealers, thieves, fraudsters and killers.

The score so far:
Obama – 1715 pardons or commutations
Trump – 1 pardon
Which President is really the one soft on law and order and has no respect for the constitution or the office? (Clue for milky – it ain’t Trump)

We’re being lied to by the MSM, all the time, on every issue!
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August 29, 2017 10:06am
- mikenmild
  
  I don’t think anyone is getting upset about the number of pardons Trump has issued. The question here is whether the president should intervene in a judicial matter before the felon has even been sentenced.
  Does anyone know how many times previous presidents have done this? Apart from Ford pardoning Nixon, of course.
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:14am
  - Kimbo
    
    Um, the impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon stopped as soon as he resigned, and he hadn’t been tried or convicted of any other offences (although charges were no doubt pending) when Ford pardoned him. So he was not at any stage a “felon”.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:39am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    What difference does it make whether a pardon happens before or after sentencing? When he’s pardoned he doesn’t serve the sentence anyway.
    
    Some examples are Bush Sr pardoning Caspar Weinberger, and Carter issuing a blanket pardon for Vietnam draft dodgers.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:53am
  - PhilBest
    
    If anything, it is more honest than the Obama tactic of whisking them all through in your last days in office. It is making the honest statement “I am going to pardon this guy anyway so stop wasting time and taxpayers money on any further process”. In this case it also happens to be what the people want, versus activist unelected judges. I am sure that most of O’s horde of pardons and commutations would not have been assented to by a large majority of the public.
    
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    August 29, 2017 10:53am
    - Kimbo
      
      If anything, it is more honest than the Obama tactic of whisking them all through in your last days in office.
      
      It is an established tradition that every POTUS , Democrat or Republican issues pardons in his last days in office. Your anti-Obama bias is showing! 😉
      
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      August 29, 2017 10:55am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        No it isn’t. Final year pardon and commutation stats are:
        
        Carter: 244 final year out of a total of 563 – 43%
        Reagan: 70 out of 405 – 17%
        Bush Sr: 38 out of 77 – 49%
        Clinton: 334 out of 457 – 73%
        Bush Jr: 83 out of 200 – 42%
        Obama: 1774 out of 1927 – 92%
        
        What Obama did was higher as a percentage and massively higher in total numbers.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:23am
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Nigel Kearney
        
        No it isn’t…
        
        Sorry, how does that falsify what I said in response to Philbest’s comment?:
        
        the Obama tactic of whisking them all through in your last days in office.
        
        I’m not disputing Obama pardoned more. But it is a standard practice that in his last days, sometimes even as his last action, the POTUS issues pardons:
        
        RFE/RL correspondent Andrew F. Tully put these and other questions to Robert Spitzer, an expert on the presidency and a professor of political science at the State University of New York at Cortland…
        
        RFE/RL: Which brings us to the ultimate question: Why do presidents grant these pardons in the last hours of their presidencies?
        
        Spitzer: Pardons can occur at any time during a presidential administration, but they do tend to come especially at the end, and for a couple of reasons. One is because it’s business presidents tend to bump down the road, as it were. Also, pardons can raise political questions. Presidents have little to gain politically by pardoning people, and stand to lose a fair amount because if they pardon people — like the Marc Rich case — or if President [George W.] Bush were to issue some last-minute pardons that were politically questionable, it could only hurt their political standing.
        
        But when the president is walking out the door, it doesn’t really matter. And also, media attention will generally be less at the very end of a presidential administration because all of the focus and attention is on the new president coming in.
        
        https://www.rferl.org/a/The_Hows_Whys_And_Whens_Of_US_Presidential_Pardons/1372250.html
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:43am
      - mikenmild
        
        GW Bush apparently advised Obama to sort out his pardons policy early, as not doing so was one of his own bigger regrets about his presidency.
        
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        August 29, 2017 11:55am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Where to start:
    1) So it’s immaterial that Obama pardoned swathes of crims, far more than several presidencies combined, the fact remains he let loose 1700 plus felons – no small deal
    2) Whether Trump should or not is irrelevant – Presidential powers allow it. So it is OK – period – if you have any respect for statutes.
    3) With Trump’s Presidency beset by Obama holdover judicial activists – one can have little faith that an Obama activist judge wouldn’t take the opportunity for points scoring against an overt Trump supporter
    4) Obama’s Presidency was cancerous in undermining the function of law enforcement to whit the domestic terrorists seemingly able to shoot cops with impunity in the dying days of Obama’s failed presidency, it seems this case was a hangover from those dark days when enforcement of the law was treated as ‘thoughtcrime’.
    5) As the judicial process hadn’t been concluded – how could the Sherrif be a felon? Innocent until proven guilty???? Surely he was only ‘the accused’!
    6. And the best bit about the pardon, now the liberal MSM are once again in histrionic melt-down – again alienating ordinary, decent American voters and further increasing the likelihood of Trump 2020 victory!
    
    Still, I forget myself – of course! It’s only OK when the Left do it!
    
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    August 29, 2017 7:15pm
Odakyu-sen

North Korea lobs another missile over Northern Japan. (Someone wants some attention…)
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August 29, 2017 10:16am
GoVege

Can’t wait til this blasted election is over…
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August 29, 2017 10:51am
- Garbageman
  
  Im with you Veg im not a political person by nature i do enjoy learning a lot on blogs such as KB unfortunately a lot of what i learn turns me off politics even more, the one saving grace from all of this shonky business is the demise of the lying fraudulent fat Green frog like creature and possibly soon to be NZr of the year figure that one out and you wonder why people despise politics
  
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  August 29, 2017 11:08am
  - GoVege
    
    Hi G Man.
    I think the fallout over Metiria’s admission shows the cultural divide in NZ between the races.
    Just yesterday I met yet another family on the dole with 11 children.
    (No guesses which culture we’re talking about.)
    IMHO compared to these, Metiria practically qualifies for sainthood for restricting herself to one child, just a few years on the benny and studying for a career.
    AND not requiring the state to build a home/s for them as most professional benny claimants do.
    In a few generations NZ will be bankrupted by the mendicants among us reproducing for a living.
    Yet no political party ever alludes to this..except maybe Act.
    
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    August 29, 2017 11:54am
GoVege

I’m sure there is a lot of intermarriage between sparrows and waxeyes.
I often see sparrows with a greenish hue to their feathers…
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August 29, 2017 10:53am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No there isn’t any sexual congress between sparrows and waxeyes.
  
  You have probably been looking at a female European greenfinch.
  http://nzbirdsonline.org.nz/species/european-greenfinch
  
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  August 29, 2017 11:25am
  - Longknives
    
    Anyone know the airspeed velocity of an Unladen Swallow?
    
    4 0
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    August 29, 2017 11:47am
    - mikenmild
      
      That’s how we get coconuts, isn’t it?
      
      3 2
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      August 29, 2017 11:53am
- kowtow
  
  Bit like the Blue Greens in Notional?
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:03pm
GoVege

Jeez!!
Just got a fright when one of those new Postman Pat vehicles went past me on the footpath!
What was wrong with bicycles?
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August 29, 2017 10:56am
- Rachael Membery
  
  The added burden of umpteen packages I think.
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:36pm
  - sooty
    
    Which raises the question are they legal? I beieve that a postman is legal on a bike. The new vehicles? The ones delivering courier parcels are not because its not mail!
    
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    August 29, 2017 1:30pm
Longknives

Has anyone had a crack at the TVNZ ‘Vote Compass’?
It’s allegedly to ‘guide’ you and help you decide who to vote for.
Now I’m not suggesting for a minute that someone at TVNZ (with an Agenda) is playing games but I’ve done it three times now- The first time I got Labour, so I did it again and got Mana Party.
Perplexed- I just resubmitted my answers with the most hardcore ‘Right-Wing’ slant I could muster.. Result- Mana Party!
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August 29, 2017 11:41am
- Longknives
  
  Oh my mate just did it and got Labour! He is disgusted as he is a Farmer who bleeds Blue…
  
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  August 29, 2017 11:42am
  - mikenmild
    
    Well, I just filled it in as if I were DPF, and I got ACT and National.
    Maybe you just habitually vote against your inclinations.
    
    3 2
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    August 29, 2017 11:52am
    - Longknives
      
      Maybe you are right Mikey!
      I do wear Sandals a lot and of late I have been feeling pretty guilty about my ‘White Privelege’…
      
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      August 29, 2017 11:56am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Mine turned out fine but I did feel that it was slanted.
        
        3 0
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        August 29, 2017 12:50pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    The difference between National and Labour is far too small to be detected by such a blunt instrument. I put in the policies that National has traditionally stood for and ended up somewhere near ACT so I think it’s working fine.
    
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    August 29, 2017 1:15pm
- KevOB
  
  I got National.
  The questions are pointedly leading and the answers intended to b e used by Redeyed TV1.
  They drag up issues from it too.
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:08pm
- waikatogirl
  
  TVNZ are pushing Vote Compass. They keep suggesting it will inform the voter of your true party to vote for. TVNZ news then quote vote compass statistics of how the public feel on different electoral topics: health, education, economy, etc.
  
  I’m refusing to give vote compass the time of day, especially after National voter hubby was surprised by being informed he is a Mana party supporter!
  ???
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:44pm
kowtow

Orwell would be appalled at the PC newspeak.

We’ve had co leaders and co captains , now we have co principal .

Nuts , co co nuts.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/co-principals-logan-park
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August 29, 2017 12:01pm
- Longknives
  
  Why not just make the chick Principle if ‘Political Correctness’ means that damn much to them?
  Or maybe she’s not quite up to the job…
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:04pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    The principle Principal?
    
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    August 29, 2017 12:52pm
    - Longknives
      
      Clearly I’d never make ‘Co Principal’!
      
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      August 29, 2017 1:32pm
Fletch

More Antifa violence at Berkley (again) with not a Nazi in sight. And the cops let them in and didn’t intervene.

Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about 100 anarchists and antifa— “anti-fascist” — members barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.

Shortly after, violence began to flare. A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifa members, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself. A conservative group leader retreated for safety behind a line of riot police as marchers chucked water bottles, shot off pepper spray and screamed, “Fascist go home!”

All told, the Associated Press reported at least five individuals were attacked. An AP reporter witnessed the assaults. Berkeley Police’s Lt. Joe Okies told The Washington Post the rally resulted in “13 arrests on a range of charges including assault with a deadly weapon, obstructing a police officer, and various Berkeley municipal code violations.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/?utm_term=.c4051ff8eabc

Five-against-one, yeh really brave these guys are.

https://twitter.com/shane_bauer/status/901910682030882816

And attacking women from behind –

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/902153229261295616/photo/1
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August 29, 2017 12:12pm
- Longknives
  
  The ‘Antifa’ criminals aren’t chucking Water in those Bottles-
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTdAhUYmWxU
  
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  August 29, 2017 12:15pm
  - Fletch
    
    Cowards, the lot of them. Should be unmasked so everyone can see who they are.
    
    6 4
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    August 29, 2017 12:25pm
    - mikenmild
      
      So you are quite happy that the neo-Nazis are being doxxed and publicly shamed then?
      
      3 6
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      August 29, 2017 2:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky,you seem to be quite happy that masked Anarchist trash are, by violence, enforcing who they think should, and should not, be allowed to stage public protests and demonstrations.
        
        I don’t see the need for any demonstrations with the internet, facilitating free and widespread communications, open to all.
        
        However, it’s one thing for police to stop demonstrations, and another thing for masked Leftists – or Rightists – to make the decisions and do the enforcing.
        
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        August 29, 2017 3:34pm
      - mikenmild
        
        How did you get the idea that I support violent protest?
        Are you as crazy as BananaLlama?
        
        3 6
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        August 29, 2017 3:37pm
    - BananaLlama
      
      Mikey was a big supporter of ANTIFA when they were bashing the shit out of law biding demonstrators at Cville.
      
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      August 29, 2017 3:29pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Jesus weeps when you tell lies.
        
        3 5
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        August 29, 2017 3:42pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        Hahaha Mikey you and your little bum boys in ANTIFA are really going to wear it now.
        
        4 3
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        August 29, 2017 5:13pm
Fletch

Gordon Copeland writes in the Dom Post about Jacinda’s decriminalisation of abortion stance.

During the 2014 election campaign I was asked the question by a group of young women “why is a woman who has an abortion regarded as a criminal in New Zealand?” I was taken aback by the question, but quickly explained that that abortions which meet the criteria outlined in the Crimes Act are lawful and that the woman is not criminalised even if the abortion is unlawful. Rather, in the case of unlawful abortions, it is the abortionist who will go to jail under the Crimes Act.

Later I learned that this lie was coming from the Abortion Law Reform Association of New Zealand (ALRANZ) who have spread it far and wide. I read both the Young Labour and Young Green groups had adopted this lie by way of a policy resolution. It is now Green Party policy!

Then earlier this year both Andrew Little and Jacinda Ardern were calling for the decriminalisation of abortion. A war of words resulted from that in the Dominion Post with ALRANZ and Margaret Sparrow leading the charge in Op-eds, and my responding to explain the actual legal position. To avoid doubt I attached the present Crimes position. Later I learned that Labour under Andrew Little had dropped decriminalisation as policy and instead decided to refer the matter of abortion to the Law Commission, but now the new leader would seem to have adopted decriminalisation as Labour’s policy.

So what would decriminalisation mean? The 20 weeks gestation boundary would go and abortions could be performed up to and including during the birth of a baby i. e. partial birth abortions. Abortions could be undertaken for any or no reason on both women and girls. The number of babies aborted would increase significantly. The number of coerced abortions would increase and coercion is evil.
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August 29, 2017 12:17pm
- mikenmild
  
  Gordon Copeland is a religious kook. No wonder Fletch adores him.
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:56pm
  - Kimbo
    
    “Better to be ruled by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian prince”*…and Copeland’s self-destructing of United Future over, what exactly?, marks him as politically incompetent.
    
    * (allegedly falsely ascribed to Martin Luther – thanks very much, SGA!!)
    
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    August 29, 2017 2:53pm
doggone7

So Sue Moroney and lots of others fought for extended paid parental leave but English vetoed it.

How desperate do you have to be to do what they’ve come up with now?

In an ordinary, sane, IQ over 23 world they would be a laughing stock and anyone supporting them would be hiding away in embarrassment.
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August 29, 2017 12:26pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Perhaps the economy allows it now, perhaps National is fiscally responsible.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:29pm
Kimbo

Hmm. Seems the “LORD’s anointed” no longer enters into town humbly, riding “a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey”. But knowing the Tamaki’s budget and…taste, it is probably installed with a $5,000 customised horn that blares out “Hosanna!” 😉 :

Destiny Church co-leader Hannah Tamaki has splashed out on a new Mercedes-Benz.

The 577-horsepower twin-turbo V8 AMG GLE63 S SUV, which sells for $207,900, was bought by Tamaki on August 15, according to public records.

It is the second Mercedes-Benz Tamaki has purchased in the past year with the latest an upgrade on her previous AMG GLE 450 3-litre twin turbo V6.

The Destiny co-leader has come under criticism with some saying the purchases are greedy and not appropriate of a church leader.

Some people claim the lavish purchases are at the expense of church members.

However, Destiny has told media that the Tamaki’s purchases are private matters.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11913122
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August 29, 2017 12:46pm
- waikatogirl
  
  The lord provides.
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:48pm
  - gump
    
    Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
    
    –Janis Joplin
    
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    August 29, 2017 6:12pm
- mikenmild
  
  “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
  — attributed to some fullah
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:55pm
- Shawn Herles
  
  The prosperity “gospel” is a stinking pile of shite.
  
  5 1
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  August 29, 2017 2:03pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Not according to pastor/apostle/prophet Hannah Tamaki – as per her tweet:
    
    Every time I go to the supermarket I get this great park. out front, by trolley bay. Papakura 0ur Hood. living the dream. New House, New Car
    
    2:49 PM – Aug 27, 2017
    
    So do not touch the Lord’s anointed!! 😉
    
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    August 29, 2017 2:07pm
    - mikenmild
      
      She probably has a mobility sticker that allows her to walk on water as well.
      What hideous people they are.
      
      9 1
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      August 29, 2017 2:21pm
      - Shawn Herles
        
        “What hideous people they are”
        
        Meh. Their theology is warped, but aside from that they are hardly hideous.
        
        People who claim that whether of not torturing children for fun is wrong is just a matter of opinion are hideous.
        
        3 5
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        August 29, 2017 2:27pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Nooooo!! Can’t you see that the fact that, not only by blessing her with such a classy personality, and by divine providence and prayer (no doubt in tongues), she “get(s) this great park. out front, by trolley bay”
        
        …that God smooths her path before her?!! But then as Kev OB opined on the weekend, the fact he keeps the rain and wind off sister Tamaki’s well coiffured fringe and mascaraed countenance while he also let’s kiddies in Africa starve to death at the same time is “a mystery only he can answer”. 😉
        
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        August 29, 2017 2:30pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Smack that straw man harder, Shawn. Should we list Jehovah’s crimes against children from the OT?
        
        5 1
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        August 29, 2017 2:35pm
Andrei

If you think that the formally Great Britain is totally fucked up you are right
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August 29, 2017 1:15pm
- Ross12
  
  The way Antifa is going and the free passes they getting from the left, MSM & Rinos in the USA, I think you can say the same about them Andrei.
  
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  August 29, 2017 1:43pm
fluffykiwi

The Swamp in NZ needs draining. Wellington obviously being the swamp.
Given all the “leftie” types resident in Wellington what odds would you get that one of them leaked this information regarding Winston Peters. They would know that it would hurt National, favour Winnie to some little extent with votes from National, but favour labour big time and get them across the line.
It looks a no brainer to me that a Wellingtonian probably civil servant was involved.
The phone will have been “burned”.
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August 29, 2017 2:09pm
Johnboy

Ah so. Must be Gleat Wall bus. Velly good quality. Just like DL Locomotive! 🙂

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/96266772/doubledecker-buses-taken-off-auckland-roads-for-repair-after-fault-detected
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August 29, 2017 2:24pm
Inandout

Well it’s official, Cam said Tolley leaked on Winston.
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August 29, 2017 3:07pm
- Johnboy
  
  And we all thought only Germans were really into that sort of stuff! 🙂
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:09pm
- fluffykiwi
  
  If he knows that for a fact then National doesn’t need to hold an Inquiry. Just ask “Cam”. Of course “Cam” and Bill are not the best of friends so maybe that wouldn’t work.
  “Cam” is still going on about the hit on Bennett which is waiting in the wings.
  As I say the swamp needs draining.
  Either that is factual from “Cam” or not. In any case people need to get up to speed, if it is on the internet there for ever, if you tell someone what you are doing it will be repeated, there is no such thing as “in confidence” any more. People love to be the one to know and the one to tell, it makes them momentarily important.
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:17pm
  - Inandout
    
    Cam is starting to get desperate in his requests for subscribers, so maybe he is looking for the ‘big one’ to fill his coffers again.
    
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/08/someone-getting-axed-today-sure/
    
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    August 29, 2017 3:30pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Was it golden?
  
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  August 29, 2017 4:02pm
Stars And Stripes

So National is now jumping on the Labour bandwagon and talking about extending paid parental as well even though they have been less than keen up till now.
How about parents actually pay for their own children instead of political parties volunteering taxpayers such as myself to be a financial surrogate to bring them up.
Bunch of dirty bloodsuckers the lot of them.
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August 29, 2017 3:17pm
- Johnboy
  
  Some would have to stop having ten or more if we did that. 🙂
  
  3 1
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  August 29, 2017 3:22pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Johnboy only had sex with women till they abolished the Family Benefit – now its’ sheep only.
    
    3 1
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    August 29, 2017 3:41pm
    - Johnboy
      
      It’s demonstrably a lie. I’ve never shagged a sheep since SMP’s stopped!
      
      5 1
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      August 29, 2017 4:03pm
Nostradamus

Racist place names in Queensland to be removed

The Queensland government is set to remove a number of racist place names from the map, including locations such as N—–s Creek and N—–s Bounce. Fairfax Media has today reported that up to 10 locations in the state either used that word or had a “similarly offensive term” in their name.

Good grief – “N—–s Creek” and “N—–s Bounce” – was it really necessary for the article to censor the names?

On the other hand:

In March last year, Blacktown Council in western Sydney voted not to change its name after a campaign by councillors to modernise the municipality’s image.

Blacktown – now that sounds like a racist name! I wonder what the councillors wanted to change the name to!

Edit: Here’s the answer:

The council started discussing a possible name change last year, with several councillors suggesting it should be amended to West Sydney City Council, Western Sydney Council or Fairwater Council.
…
Cr Bali said Aboriginal groups had criticised the idea suggested by some proponents of the name change that the name Blacktown was disrespectful to Indigenous Australians. “We asked the Blacktown Aboriginal community and discovered the situation was quite the reverse – they are proud to live in Blacktown,” Cr Bali said.

Goodness!
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August 29, 2017 3:24pm
- Johnboy
  
  I wonder when Whitemans Valley will get changed? 🙂
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:35pm
- mikenmild
  
  I’m pretty sure the ‘Nigger’ place names in NZ were changed a few years back.
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:39pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Guy Gibson’s dog was going to get a makeover….what ever happened to that movie? 🙂
    
    2 0
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    August 29, 2017 3:41pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Stephen Fry was commissioned to write the script, and I believe some work was done on replica aircraft at Hood Aerodrome, but no news for a while. No more Tintin movies yet, either.
      
      3 0
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      August 29, 2017 3:46pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    That’s correct Mikenmild.
    
    New Zealand to rename ‘racist place names’ on South Island (an international news link)
    
    New Zealand has declared it will rename three places in the South Island containing the racist term “n****r”.
    …
    N****r Stream, near Arthur’s Pass, will be renamed Pūkio Stream while N****rhead, which is above Lake Sumner will now be known as Tawhai Hill. N****r Hill will become Kānuka Hills.
    
    Another first-world problem fixed!
    
    6 1
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    August 29, 2017 3:43pm
    - Johnboy
      
      At least they matched the new names to the old meanings. 🙂
      
      4 0
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      August 29, 2017 3:52pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      They’ll be coming for your blackboys next.
      https://honeynspice.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/black-boy-peach2.jpg
      
      2 0
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      August 29, 2017 5:39pm
    - realityczech
      
      Ironically they replaced them all with N****r names to show their contempt and hatred for crac**rs.
      
      3 3
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      August 29, 2017 5:42pm
      - sam green
        
        You really are a spiteful bitch aren’t you.
        
        1 3
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        August 29, 2017 9:48pm
      - realityczech
        
        spam boy and his fake morality. Yawn.
        
        2 0
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        August 29, 2017 10:17pm
sooty

I believe that tomorrow night is the first tv debate between Taxinda and Bill. Hosted by that nice Mr Hoskins.
5 1
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August 29, 2017 3:31pm
- mikenmild
  
  Hosking. Why do so many people put an ‘s’ on everything? ‘John Keys’, etc?
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:55pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Same reason they add an ‘l’ and a ‘y’ and disregard ‘mild’ …….cause they like to! 🙂
    
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    August 29, 2017 4:01pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  sooty, It’s actually Thursday night, and its Hosking, not Hoskins. Go back to your bong.
  
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  August 29, 2017 5:23pm
- stigie
  
  I might watch it Thursday night sooty..?
  
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  August 29, 2017 5:38pm
  - stigie
    
    5000 comments, am i eligible for a chocolate fish..?
    
    4 0
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    August 29, 2017 5:41pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Watch it, Rachael is on your tail.
      
      2 0
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      August 29, 2017 6:18pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Stigie:
      
      5000 comments, am i eligible for a chocolate fish..?
      
      Mikenmild has asked me to tell you that, with only 5,000 comments under your belt, you’re still a Kiwiblog virgin (relatively speaking)! And Gabby (currently sitting on 4,756 comments) is travelling in your slipstream…
      
      2 0
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      August 29, 2017 7:27pm
      - stigie
        
        Dont really need Gobby around my back door Nostra..?
        
        4 2
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        August 29, 2017 7:59pm
      - Gabby
        
        Nobody wants round your back door stinkie.
        
        1 4
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        August 29, 2017 8:11pm
      - sam green
        
        hahaha – “stinkie”
        
        You should sue stigie.
        
        Keep that bugger away from your backdoor though – dad will be soooo jealous.
        
        2 2
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        August 29, 2017 9:51pm
Rachael Membery

mikenmild

Yet somehow, your brain remained unwashed?
AUGUST 29, 2017 12:02PM
Because I had my own mind in the first instance, but it was interesting watching the young ones.
I had life experience to apply to issues, they relied on the textbooks and lecturers.
lol and Waikato being the seat of Tainui, I blotted my white privileged colonial oppressor copybook on a number of occassions, possibly compounded by doing pc Maori Myths and Legends and a paper on Maori Development.
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August 29, 2017 3:37pm
- mikenmild
  
  You studied Maori myths and legends? And what did you learn from that academic experience?
  
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  August 29, 2017 3:40pm
  - Johnboy
    
    That a Taniwha in the river is worth much more than money in the bank? 🙂
    
    14 0
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    August 29, 2017 3:43pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I liked the one where there were pale person like creatures on the beach when Maori arrived.
    It was interesting, but I had to learn the material whereas many Maori would have grown up with some of the knowledge.
    For myself that particular one was a sinecure for Maori, being tested on the names of the components of a Maori meeting house would have been a doddle for some.
    That one probably reinforced some of my attitudes to platitudes.
    There was much Treaty of Waitangi content in my core subjects and I was accused of being racist for questioning some of it, I did the named two so that I could argue my point from some ‘accepted knowledge’ and being open minded.
    
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    August 29, 2017 4:00pm
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      Don’t feel too bad about it all as I wondered the other day if it was racist to ask the Islander women at Countdown if they stocked bags of peanuts.
      
      5 2
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      August 29, 2017 4:12pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Or coconuts?
        
        4 1
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        August 29, 2017 4:18pm
    - mikenmild
      
      What ‘point’ was it that you were arguing?
      
      5 1
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      August 29, 2017 5:29pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        That lectures about Tiriti O Waitangi were able to be critiqued as with any other.
        Rolling of eyes, gnashing of teeth occurred when I posed questions, according to one Maori lecturer. Matiu Dickson to be precise.
        Anyway I got my degree despite my annoying habits.
        
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        August 29, 2017 5:46pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Rachael:
        
        Were you aware of this?
        
        Maori academic Matiu Dickson died at the ceremony of the opening of the new Law and Management building.
        
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        August 29, 2017 6:18pm
      - mikenmild
        
        And I’ll bet your questions were all simple requests for more knowledge or seeking to understand others’ perspective and not, well
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions
        
        2 2
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        August 29, 2017 6:29pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I am not a fan of the white greenstone/bone carving wearer.
    I am proud of my heritage, though certainly not a sop to it.
    I had a father who spoke Te Reo from when he attended Wesley College, his time in the Territorials, Teaching blah blah but interestingly, or not, his father was Welsh, his mother was Cornish, but he chose to put Maori words on his fathers grave, stating that he had liked fishing.
    Anyway, despite his ‘knowledge’ he used the word IKA for fish, fishing on a much grander scale ask Maui, than my grandfather catching a few fish in his tinny and smoking them.
    
    3 0
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    August 29, 2017 4:15pm
- Kimbo
  
  That and lots of piss ups at the Hillcrest Tavern? 😉
  
  Higher education – ya can’t beat it…
  
  2 0
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  August 29, 2017 3:41pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    FYI Kimbo:
    
    Hillcrest tavern back in business
    
    The name has a familiar ring and it’s on the same site, but there’s a different feel to The Hilly, which starts its second coming today. Hamilton’s iconic Hillcrest Tavern, known as “The Hilly”, was a student and suburban haunt for 35 years before it was demolished in March last year [2008].
    
    Demolished and rebuilt.
    
    Mr Logan said the new Hilly, which is smaller than its predecessor, would not focus solely on students. “The student thing will still happen, but we want to become a bit of a local for people,” he said.
    
    Sheesh – we’re making it harder for students to spend their taxpayer-funded allowance on a healthy party lifestyle!
    
    3 0
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    August 29, 2017 3:53pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Didn’t it help contribute to the Tron’s hard-won reputation as the Chlamydia Capital of NZ?
      
      4 0
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      August 29, 2017 3:56pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Hard to say Kimbo.
        
        DPF covered this back in 2010: back then the Gisborne region was the “clap capital” of the North Island. But “dog_eat_dog” almost sounded a bit nostalgic: “If you didn’t catch it in Hamilton, it’s not worth having.”
        
        5 0
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        August 29, 2017 4:03pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Hard one? Those men should have been more responsible ;).
        
        2 0
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        August 29, 2017 5:42pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    It isn’t what it was.
    I never attended any uni. ‘social’ events while I studied.
    
    5 0
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    August 29, 2017 4:06pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Rachael:
      
      I never attended any uni. ‘social’ events
      
      How did you manage to keep Johnboy at your beck and call during your university years without anyone noticing? (His Flossie costume is a bit like Chloe of Wainuiomata’s slippers – very distinctive.)
      
      5 0
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      August 29, 2017 4:16pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        I was a relatively recent attendee starting 2006, maybe I missed him, shame really, I have been known to dress men up 😉 and dress them down.
        
        4 0
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        August 29, 2017 4:29pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        He would have stood out at graduation, mind you a lot of them were ‘woolly’, I didn’t attend it either.
        
        2 0
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        August 29, 2017 5:40pm
kowtow

Who let them in?

‘Italian news reports said the suspects are believed to be four North Africans with a history of drug trafficking.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-4829588/Poland-assist-investigating-attack-couple-Italy.html
5 0
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August 29, 2017 3:55pm
GazzaW

Another depressing day on the NZX particularly when Asian trading commenced this afternoon. More dips in the NZD too against all major currencies.

Are the offshore markets starting to get concerned about a possible Labour win?
7 0
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August 29, 2017 4:07pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Yes
  
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  August 29, 2017 6:27pm
Captain Mainwaring

Petrol prices are back over $2.00 per litre (in Wellington anyway).
The fuel companies must have joined the media in their crusade to change the Government.
4 0
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August 29, 2017 5:25pm
realityczech

Coal for this generation and the next and the next …

And we have not even begun to explore Antarctica for coal yet. Coal powered technology will carry mankind into space and beyond.

There are an estimated 1.1 trillion tonnes of proven coal reserves worldwide. This means that there is enough coal to last us around 150 years at current rates of production.

https://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-coal-found
6 3
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August 29, 2017 5:30pm
- mikenmild
  
  And after 150 years we will have the technology to convert internet trolls directly into energy.
  
  7 4
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  August 29, 2017 5:33pm
  - dime
    
    serious question… you do realise you are a troll? right mikey?
    
    9 7
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    August 29, 2017 5:35pm
    - mikenmild
      
      You say that like you think trolling is a bad thing.
      
      8 4
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      August 29, 2017 6:23pm
      - mikenmild
        
        But you also need to think about how you define a troll.
        
        5 5
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        August 29, 2017 6:25pm
      - sam green
        
        Someone who disagrees with him.
        
        1 2
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        August 29, 2017 9:59pm
  - realityczech
    
    milky always cries troll when he reads a fact. Funny little fellow.
    
    5 7
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    August 29, 2017 6:22pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      and a Billy goat clip clops lol
      
      6 0
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      August 29, 2017 6:31pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Just out of interest, Kea, how would you score yourself against this checklist for trolling:
      Deliberately angering people.
      Breaking the normal flow of debate/discussion.
      Disrupting the smooth operation of the site.
      Deliberately being annoying for the sake of being obnoxious.
      Pretending to be profoundly ignorant or stupid, gleaning some weird sense of having “won” when other users subsequently come to believe this.
      Making itself the main topic of interest or discussion
      
      6 4
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      August 29, 2017 6:35pm
  - realityczech
    
    Yes milky the big threats are all imaginary: Nazis & Trolls.
    
    I guess you think Lord of The Rings is a doco ?
    
    4 3
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    August 29, 2017 6:36pm
    - mikenmild
      
      What threats, Kea?
      
      3 4
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      August 29, 2017 6:52pm
dime

lol @ winston first using a fake taxi pic for a fb post.

obviously i didnt recognise what it was in under 3 seconds..
7 0
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August 29, 2017 5:34pm
- Sublime
  
  A New Zealand First (NZF) Facebook page has been busted for using an image from the infamous Fake Taxi porn series.
  
  Winston: “What is this fraudulent taxi cab service, Shane?”
  
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  August 29, 2017 10:44pm
nasska

Finally some good news. It seems that rumours of our local MP’s death were grossly exaggerated & after an absence of three years he has been sighted on the campaign trail.
9 0
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August 29, 2017 6:03pm
- mikenmild
  
  “Beam me up, Scotty”?
  
  2 3
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  August 29, 2017 6:20pm
  - nasska
    
    More likely he’ll require beaming down Mike.
    
    2 0
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    August 29, 2017 6:30pm
Lucia Maria

Bit of a strange announcement by National: National unveils major package to increase IVF and paid parental leave

IVF??? Because everyone deserves a family.

Free dental for pregnant women (I wonder how pg you have to be, and would it count if you were pg but had a miscarriage). Might be easier just to do free dental for mothers who haven’t been to the dentist in 5 years (or so), because all the same logic applies to any mother.

Extending paid parental leave (English is getting hammered in the comments for originally opposing this)

And then there’s more flexibility on paying off student loans, but then whatever that means is not said. Maybe it wasn’t exciting enough to put in the article.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be voting for National because there’s no other choice. But I’m a little underwhelmed with this and the previously announced education package.
5 5
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August 29, 2017 6:06pm
- realityczech
  
  Its because male fertility is dropping and women want to begin a family much later. First they want to finish their education, travel and screw around/party, then get “the man they deserve” at around 35 as their looks fade.
  
  The trouble is nature is not a feminist or at all PC.
  
  “I’ll be voting for National because there’s no other choice”
  
  Same. Wasn’t going to. But have to.
  
  4 3
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  August 29, 2017 6:29pm
  - nasska
    
    Fifteen out of sixteen years I’ve ticked National….the only time I’ve faltered was when Muldoon wandered off the farm in ’84.
    
    I’ll back them again this year but it’s only because the retards offering themselves as an alternative are so bloody bad.
    
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    August 29, 2017 6:42pm
    - mikenmild
      
      No crazy independents in Wairarapa to cast your vote for?
      How about encouraging the Conservatives to stick around for our amusement?
      
      3 2
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      August 29, 2017 6:51pm
      - nasska
        
        So long as National get the party vote I’m not really all that fussed who is my electorate MP. Ron Mark has quite a local presence.
        
        At this stage we don’t have any real Penny Bright or Colin Craig type nutters to keep things interesting.
        
        7 1
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        August 29, 2017 6:57pm
      - mikenmild
        
        As a political tragic, are you aware of any record for least successful candidate in a New Zealand election? The ideal would be to find someone who didn’t even vote for himself.
        
        2 2
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        August 29, 2017 7:04pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Nasska:
        
        Your line-up (assuming this list is correct) looks boring. [Edit: I see Ron Mark is missing from the list]
        
        So let’s liven things up: Her Warship abides: a day with the unsinkable would-be mayor, Penny Bright
        
        [Penny] Bright grew up in the Wairarapa town of Carterton, moving to Auckland in 1981, aged 27, where she found work as an apprentice metal fabrication engineer. “I’m a tradie, and I’m not stupid – I can read,” she says. “Part of what you are is what you’ve been through… What the public hate is flash cars and overseas trips.”
        
        Perhaps Penny could do a quick whip-round. i’m sure her Facebook mates would be happy to fund a one-way trip back to the Wairarapa. But how interesting that, in Penny’s own words, the public hate overseas trips. I guess there’s an exception for international anti-corruption conferences…
        
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        August 29, 2017 7:06pm
      - nasska
        
        The Socialist Party of Aotearoa used to manage single figure tallies but apart from a few independents most people have a few mates or family members to mitigate the embarrassment.
        
        But I can’t think of any instance of a nil vote.
        
        3 0
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        August 29, 2017 7:13pm
      - nasska
        
        Penny was employed by a firm called Master Industries Nostra. They used to (mis)manufacture whiteware such as Norge washing machines. Mercifully Roger Douglas put them down in the late 80s.
        
        In the Wairarapa soufflés don’t rise twice so you suckers are stuck with her! 🙂
        
        Edit: NZ First managed to file their candidate list a day late. Ron M will still be there. He came a close third in 2014.
        
        7 1
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        August 29, 2017 7:21pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Nasska. Diligent research tells me that the lowest polling electorate candidate last time out was a rooster named Jordan Osmaston, who received precisely 19 votes in his campaign for a party (!) call Money Free.
        Even more fascinating, these guys are an international movement, based on the ideas of an American ‘futurist’.
        They expect to have a ‘major presence’ in this year’s election, but are not currently registered as a political party…
        
        4 3
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        August 29, 2017 7:47pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Mikenmild:
        
        Yes, Jordan Osmaston, but don’t forget about Richard Osmaston (175 in Nelson – where I believe Stigie lives). They must be related – the Osmastons that is – Stigie wouldn’t want anything to do with them!
        
        2 0
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        August 29, 2017 7:52pm
      - realityczech
        
        milky being a low information dick licker who appeals to the popular it is not surprising you don’t understand. Fiat currency is free money and what we have currently.
        
        We must record what we use, where things come from, where they go to, and when etc. It’s called a logistic supply chain, and is an integral part of modern civilizations. The money part however, no longer has meaning.
        
        http://moneyfreeparty.org.nz/about/
        
        4 5
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        August 29, 2017 7:56pm
      - mikenmild
        
        I’m assuming he is the more successful one in the family. But what does it say about Nelson that the Money Free Party’s ideas are ten time more popular there than in Auckland Central?
        
        2 3
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        August 29, 2017 8:11pm
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      This election will be the first one where I vote for a party which I don’t respect.
      No mainstream party stands for free enterprise, self responsibility and small government anymore.
      All we have is bunch of various leaning socialists who want to take money off the successful and redistribute it to the hopeless and irresponsible.
      National and Labour are both shades of the same disease now.
      
      4 2
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      August 29, 2017 7:08pm
  - Lucia Maria
    
    I think by 35 it’s too late.
    
    A number of years back at a work do a 32 year-old woman almost sobbed on hubby’s shoulder telling him all the good men were already taken.
    
    Just rejects and misfits left to choose from after that (with the very occasional exception), which is no choice at all for a woman wanting a baby.
    
    More likely to be couples deciding to wait. In my case, hubby wanted us to wait, but I insisted in my mid-twenties.
    
    6 1
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    August 29, 2017 7:36pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Lucia Maria:
      
      A number of years back at a work do a 32 year-old woman almost sobbed on hubby’s shoulder telling him all the good men were already taken.
      
      Did your husband advise the woman to log on to Kiwiblog and introduce herself to Johnboy? 🙂
      
      5 0
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      August 29, 2017 7:38pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        I think she was looking for someone to start a family with rather than just a romp in the hay!
        
        4 1
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        August 29, 2017 7:42pm
      - nasska
        
        There’ll be a few good blokes of that age out there but most of them will come complete with kids & baggage after their wives have buggered off to “find themselves” or something equally selfish.
        
        But from what I’ve seen I tend to go along with Lucia. By late 20s most people serious about starting families have paired off. This point has not escaped the CEO as we have five grand daughters between 17 & 26 who seem in no hurry to breed.
        
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        August 29, 2017 7:51pm
    - realityczech
      
      “I think by 35 it’s too late.”
      
      Doesn’t matter. Biology decided for us.
      
      Women who have kids young (and married) often pick up their careers after the kids grow up. They seem to do alright.
      
      3 0
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      August 29, 2017 7:47pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Having thrown a couple of them back (husbands), having more choice and getting them first is no blessing either lol.
      
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      August 29, 2017 8:34pm
Lucia Maria

Minecraft Creator Alleges Global Conspiracy Involving Pizzagate, a ‘Manufactured Race War,’ a Missing Tabloid Toddler, and Holistic Medicine

My boys grew up on Minecraft. I’m so glad it’s flakey creator has since sold it on!
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August 29, 2017 6:27pm
Scott Chris

Kimbo was walking across a bridge one day, and saw Shawn Herles standing on the edge, about to jump. He ran over and said: “Stop. Don’t do it.”

“Why shouldn’t I?” Shawn asked.

“Well, there’s so much to live for!”

“Like what?”

“Are you religious?”

Shawn said: “Yes.”

Kimbo said: “Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?”

“Christian.”

“Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?”

“Protestant.”

“Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”

“Baptist.”

“Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”

“Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?”

“Reformed Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?”

He said: “Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915.”

Kimbo said: “Die, heretic scum,” and pushed Shawn off.
12 3
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August 29, 2017 7:19pm
- realityczech
  
  Sack of unwanted cells and fluid left in distressed woman’s body.
  
  The last thing this country needs is more unwanted kids, which is what the sack of cells could potentially have become. Abortions should be done with haste and on demand.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/96269914/taranaki-health-board-apologises-over-abortion-case
  
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  August 29, 2017 7:40pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    I find it sad that so many who live, support the right to kill those who have no say. Like that Bitch from Auckland Uni, Justine Rose. Now, why wasn’t abortion a choice in her case. World would be a much nicer place without the likes of her and her ilk.
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/08/clubs-pro-life-ideology-will-ausa-ban-future/
    
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    August 29, 2017 9:32pm
Steve (North Shore)

Today in Hawaii.
Won’t have time to post photos in the morning so this will have to do. Need to pack, go fly a drone, and get last minute gifts.
Today climbed the Diamond Head Crater. Hard yaka, but it did not kill me. Some photos are postcard material.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4on9myx8ju34cfj/IMG_0620%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yndaa9m22btb84m/IMG_0654%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/727ay1mg1jan9th/IMG_0667%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uofu7hclxyj88r/IMG_0669%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0wkbkwfzmy1kh4/IMG_0673%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xj2w269hsh45gvm/IMG_0677%281%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2jrz48bta6umvc/IMG_0755%281%29.jpg?dl=0
Some taken with a Canon 18 – 55, some with a 75 – 300
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August 29, 2017 8:12pm
Rachael Membery

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11913277
Why do Coroners take so long to do their enquiries,?
Justice for Moko.
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August 29, 2017 8:26pm
- nasska
  
  …..”Why do Coroners take so long to do their enquiries,?”….
  
  Good question, well deserving of an intelligent answer. From what I can see they’re answerable to no one & do things in their own sweet time regardless of any consideration for the relatives of the deceased.
  
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  August 29, 2017 8:41pm
  - Nookin
    
    The most likely explanation is that the coroner waits until all criminal proceedings have been completed. The latest, and presumably last appeal decision was not that long ago.
    The coronial inquest into the Kahui Twins’ deaths was some time after the trials, also. From memory, the coroner pointed the finger directly at Chris Kahui. Unlike his trial, Kahui gave evidence — not voluntarily
    
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    August 29, 2017 8:56pm
Rachael Membery

Nostradamus.
Yes, I was there for the official opening, Matiu died during the dawn karakia.
He had had heart problems for a while, it wasn’t seen as a good portend at the time.
It is a very cold concrete building imo and I found a spelling mistake in the stairwell chronology lol 😉
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August 29, 2017 9:03pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  mikenmild
  Well actually there was another lecturer Barry Barton, in my last paper, of that degree (I have another) who took me to one side and said, ‘that just because he asked if there were any questions, that I didn’t always have to ask one lol.
  Asking questions suits my learning style.
  I traveled to those lectures to question, not to be in an echo chamber, I never attended another of his lectures.
  The paper was one that I did not have prior knowledge of or would have chosen, other than it fitted the degree plan.
  Curiously on a field trip we ended up at the bottom of my childhood garden on the Waikato River, I knew it better than he did, he wasn’t at all grateful ;).
  I passed anyway, but his attitude could have cost me another 6 months study.
  Last time I heard, he was wanting to be Dean, another of my lecturers became Dean instead, so sad never mind!!
  
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  August 30, 2017 12:30pm
Manolo

Mamma Merkel is Europe’s ruin:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/29/angela-merkel-poland-judicial-reforms-courts

Angela Merkel has weighed in on a worsening dispute between the EU and Poland about judicial independence, delivering pointed criticism of Germany’s eastern neighbour that underscores its growing isolation.
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August 30, 2017 6:40am
SPC

Second time the Herald has reported this story.

We are doomed.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11913705

Last chance to vote Sept 23 2017.
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August 30, 2017 11:34am
- rangitoto
  
  The Horrid has descended to the level of the worst of the British tabloids.
  
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  August 30, 2017 2:29pm

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