General Debate 12 April 2019

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krazykiwi

If I said all gays were going to go to Nirvana, would I lose my job?
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April 12, 2019 8:00am
- Tarquin North
  
  Why don’t they ask Sonny Bill what he thinks of gays? Surely one so devout would be happy to guide us on this matter.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:08am
  - kowtow
    
    They didn’t ask Steven Demetri Gregoriou, aka Cat Stevens , aka Yusuf Islam , what he thought of killing Salman Rushdie even though he is on record as agreeing that should be the course of action following an Ayatollah’s fatwa.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:33am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Maybe SBW has enough brains not to break his contract and bring his game into disrepute, regardless of his religious beliefs.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:33am
    - burt
      
      So would you support my right to collect National Socialist Workers Party memorabilia as long as I didn’t take it out of my house?
      (Disclaimer: I don’t have any National Socialist Workers Party memorabilia )
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:59am
      - cmm
        
        I would support your right to own it and wear it.
        
        If people can wear communism apparel (Che shirts etc) then why not NSDAP stuff?
        
        Side question: Does a VW classify as NSDAP memorabilia?
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:41am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Say I ran a hotel that relied on Chinese visitors to fill the rooms. My concierge made multiple posts about Chinese drivers, Chinese house buyers and not being able to read the shop signs in some areas in Auckland. He is perfectly entitled to hold and express these views, but it is damaging my business. So when he next comes to review his contract, I agree to continuing to pay him megabucks for his stellar performance as concierge, but write into the contract that he must keep these anti-Chinese sentiments off Facebook and Twitter. Then what?
        
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        April 12, 2019 12:43pm
      - cmm
        
        sceptic you are muddying the water with different issues:
        
        A) The right to free speech.
        B) The right to enter into contracts which might place limits on that free speech.
        C) The right of people making those contracts to terminate the contracts if you have broken them.
        
        You should have the right to own and wear NSDAP regalia or express your religiously or express views about Chinese visitors.
        
        You also have the right to enter into contracts which forbid you from wearing the NSDAP regalia or whatever. Nothing forcing you into the contract or into wearing the regalia. You make the choice.
        
        If you have entered into a contract then choose not to obey the terms of the contract then you have broken the contract.
        
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        April 12, 2019 1:15pm
    - cmm
      
      Well he did step outside the bounds of his contract when he covered up banking logos, but, hey, bend over for him because you don’t want to be seen as Islamaphobic.
      
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      April 12, 2019 11:36am
  - burt
    
    Why don’t they ask Sonny Bill what he thinks of gays?
    
    Or ask him how he feels about the idea that once his daughter is 9 years old she will be old enough to marry?
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:17am
- Local Miller
  
  If I said all pedophiles were going to hell would I be accused of pedophileophobia? Or for all drunks is it dipsomaniaphobia? What about kleptomaniaphobia? Surly this is all hate speech and should be banned!
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:12am
- SGA
  
  Perhaps, but they certainly would think you are strange. Nirvana disbanded after Kurt Cobain shot himself.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:13am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Ah, but we got the Foo’s being the same but different and better (imo)
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  I’m very pleased that some groups have restrained themselves from piling into Folau and it shows a welcome maturity in these days of instant virtue signalling. Alcoholics Anonymous are to be commended for not joining in the chorus of hate , afterall there’s likely to be far more of us “drunkards” in the general population than ‘gays”.
  
  As a sometime member of one of the collectives (drunkard) condemned by Folau ,while I don’t agree with what he said , it is important to defend his right to express his opinions.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:23am
  - David Garrett
    
    kowtow: Yes indeed…and the Australian Rugby League being all “inclusive” is rather amusing to me…20 years ago they apparently had a mantra “one in, all in” with regard to casual women at the clubhouse after the game…so as not to offend the delicate, I will let readers figure out exactly what that dictum meant.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      DG
      On a very serious note , what we’re witnessing is a new iconoclasm.
      
      The new righteous are showing how very righteous they are by jumping on what was yesterday’s orthodoxy.
      
      We have seen it right through history , hence that term , iconoclasm.
      
      Britain had it under Henry VIII , then again under the various strains of Protestant infighting , leading to the Civil War , then the witch burnings and in more recent times the Soviets , the Nazis , the Chinese Cultural Revolution , Pol Pot , the Taliban and ISIS .
      
      The people who condemn Folau are not on the violent end of the spectrum but they are on the spectrum .
      As we forget or wilfully ignore the lessons of history we are in danger of repeating the same mistakes.
      
      “Where they burn books, they will also ultimately burn people.”
      
      As an aside back in the ’70’s and ’80’s a persons “right” to work was seen as a very important one , fundamental even ,to feed ones’ family etc and the left were very strong on that , to the point of extremes . Today , where is the left defending a man’s right to work ?
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:48am
      - srylands
        
        Now the left defends the right to not work.
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:09am
      - Evadne
        
        They are too busy writing headlines that say: “Watch: Kiwi celebrities, sports stars savage Israel Folau”.
        
        Lead article on the Herald site.
        
        I note it’s tagged “entertainment”, so perhaps it’s the modern-day equivalent of throwing Christians to the lions to entertain the Colosseum crowds.
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:10am
- Scott
  
  Those of us concerned about freedom of speech and religious liberty are very concerned about the plight of Israel Folau who has been banned from playing rugby league in Australia because his views are not “inclusive”.
  Folau has an objection against homosexuality because of his Christian faith and as a consequence is being banned from earning a living in Australia playing rugby league. This despite the fact that he is still a very good player and popular with the fans.
  This move by the rugby league enables gay activists to show that they can get anyone. Even if you are a popular rugby league player they can get you.
  
  This naked power play by homosexual activists shows us that even our most manly heterosexual institutions have become thoroughly “gay”.
  
  Israel Folau I would have thought has a right to his views, that homosexuality is a sin, which is the view of the old Testament and the new Testament, and has been the view until very recently of Western civilisation for the last two millennia. Basically homosexuals are saying that we run the show now and that the Christian worldview will not be tolerated.
  
  Unfortunately this is the great leap backward into the pagan and decadent worldview of the ancient Greeks. In ancient Greece sodomy was widespread and celebrated even in the arts. This is where we are heading unless we stand up for something better.
  
  I would have thought that with our declining birth rates our government and our institutions would be pushing heterosexual marriage and doing something to increase our birthrate. But no, it appears that the desire for the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle is more important in their eyes than anything else.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:29am
  - SGA
    
    I would have thought that with our declining birth rates our government and our institutions would be pushing heterosexual marriage and doing something to increase our birthrate.
    
    Homosexuality is a minor player in the birth rate game, Scott. When I was growing up a family with 4 children (like ours) was not unusual – it certainly didn’t count as a “big family”. One or two children was considered a small family. Nowadays, many more couples have only one or two children so that they can afford the lifestyle that they aspire to. That’s a much bigger factor.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:49am
    - srylands
      
      Fertility is inverse to income. In New Zealand the poor have large families. Which is not what we need.
      
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      April 12, 2019 11:10am
      - sooty
        
        Too much time on their hands and little funds for entertainment. So they turn to indoor sports!
        
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        April 12, 2019 1:00pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Above 3 kids becomes a logistical nightmare in this era of kiddie car seats. When I were a lad whole family could be in the car and off in 30 seconds, now it take 3-5 minutes. Also makes it difficult for kids to visit friends or relatives.
      
      Add to that baby-sitting requirements have been substantially increased (no kids home alone until 14 FFS!!!) and expectations around general level of care have been raised substantially too.
      
      3rd major factor is that it is very difficult for non-beneficiary people of child rearing age to survive on a single income given enormous mortgages in our low inflation low interest rate world – making child care a huge additional cost for every kid.
      
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      April 12, 2019 11:34am
  - Swifty
    
    There is nothing wrong with a bit of buggery Scott.
    
    The Greeks knew best.
    
    Better get used to it mate.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:53am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Folau is an easy target for the mainstream leftist media yet are very quiet regarding Iran’s practice of throwing gays off tall buildings.
    
    Will Qantas allow Muslims on their flights for holding the same views?
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:09am
  - Maxx
    
    I don’t really care what Folau says or thinks. I have my own opinion of the world, and am not offended if someone else has a different opinion.
    
    But if you are a public figure, and you bring the organisation you work for into disrepute, there are going to be consequences. I would say this is in nearly everyone’s employment agreements.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:11am
  - Pateke
    
    Actually Israel is a rugby player with principles. Who knows what rugby league players might think, if at all.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:52am
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    Freedom of Speech is all well and good, but it doesn’t transfer to Freedom from Consequences.
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  If Folau had said that all Christians are bigoted white-supremacist who eat babies, he wouldn’t have lost his job. He’d have been given a newspaper column.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:40am
- Surely Knott
  
  So my issue is with the job aspect of it, because this new condemnation of stupid comments isn’t just for celebrities. As an employer we are now being asked by random members of the public who have emailed the company, to review an employees politically conservative personal blog postings made on their own time. And no this person isn’t a celebrity or have a public facing job. Are we seriously asking employers to be judge and jury on staffs personal comments outside of work hours. Are we going to withhold contracts from businesses that hire Pacific Island christians who may hold very conservative views. Or are we going to withhold business from companies who hire political conservatives. Should we be asking employees religious and political beliefs at interview stage so we can vet them? Isn’t that a human rights violation. There’s a political discourse online but you can’t engage in it if you have a job or a business? I think it’s wrong. You should be able to be a person outside of your job. And the consequences of any hate speech or stupid or illegal behaviour you do in your own time should be between you and the police, and you and the public that you are posting to. I note the public responded very well in their comments to Israel Falau’s blog posts. The comments which critiqued his opinion were biting and funny and true. Other team managers also denounced what he said. This was the correct response.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:58am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Folau’s case is probably different in that he would have had special clauses inserted in his new contract after the last incident. But you are right, how does an employment contract get to say essentially “you are not allowed to bring our company into disrepute”? This seems to be far too overreaching, with little proven causality between the statement and any actual proven “disrepute”.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:20am
    - Sacha
      
      How about the employer saying ” we employ X for his work skills. His religious views are no concern of ours”
      How about everyone mind their own business and ignore contraversial comments.
      
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      April 12, 2019 8:33pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Employers are fearful of wokescenti flash mobs. Fearful that they’ll flood social channels with snowflake-melting abuse, threatening boycotts etc. All necessary fear in my view, and showing a lack of spine. But there you have it.
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:06am
- andrew davies
  
  Can someone please explain why homosexuals are up there with Mauis dolphins and yellow eyed penguins and in need of special protection.
  
  It seems to me the ultimate in homophobia is to claim gays are so feeble they cannot handle disagreement.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:08am
  - sooty
    
    Because they are all special!
    It’s all about the feelz!
    Let’s do this!
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:35am
- Micky
  
  Persecuted for his beliefs. Shocking attack on free speech. If he takes legal action against Rugby Australia for unfair dismissal – he should walk away with millions.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:35am
  - David Garrett
    
    Micky: Excellent point…although I have no idea what employment law is in Austraya…I’d be prepared to believe that discrimination on the grounds of religious belief is verboten…
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:09am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Many employers have clauses in their employment contracts covering social media use which brings the business into disrepute. Folau is a serial offender.
      
      I have no idea what the Qantas sponsorship is worth to Rugby Australia, but it would have to be significant to have the national team named the Qantas Wallabies. If it comes down to a choice between a player, even arguably the best player in the team, and a marquee sponsor, the dollars will always win out.
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:30am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        But what does “bringing the business into disrepute” cover? If Folau had said “Rugby is a boring game, the Wallabies suck, AFL is much better. I recommend kids everywhere start playing it”, the ARU might have a case. If Folau says “all gays are going to hell”, what is the link between his personal beliefs and actual damage to the game? Possibly some existing gay fans, or people who disagree with this statements, stop watching the sport? It’s all so tenuous. What about people who agree with him – all of a sudden they might *start* watching it! What if he didn’t make the statements at all? It’s OK to have someone whose values don’t align with yours playing the game, as long as people don’t find out what they are? Seems hypocritical to me.
        
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        April 12, 2019 10:44am
      - cmm
        
        And yet the All Blacks, and the banks, bent over when SBW covered up the logos of bank sponsors.
        
        Qantas should perhaps be careful. Pushing the point might lose them business.
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:56am
    - Micky
      
      Thanks David – if Australia are signatories to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights he should have a very good chance if the case is based on law rather than public opinion.
      
      UDHR
      Article 18.
      
      Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
      
      Article 19.
      
      Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:32am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      There is more to this than meets the eye, Folau would be well aware that it takes very little to upset the Irish Gnome at Qantas and he may have just set out to do this.
      There are unconfirmed reports of a deal in France but Australian Rugby wouldn’t let him go, he can go anywhere he likes when they terminate contract.
      Could always go back to Aussie rules, not one male player has ever come out as homosexual, plenty of drunks etc.
      Statistics would think this almost impossible, but to this day, not one has had the goolies to “come out”.
      The really funny aspect of Qantas is they still deal with the stone throwers and hand surgeons in Brunei, fairly hypercritical, Virgin have pulled the pin on Brunei’s airline.
      
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      April 12, 2019 3:19pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  I’d say that would be difficult as their lead singer has been dead for some time. I think they would be welcome at a Foo Fighters gig though.
  
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  April 12, 2019 10:33am
Local Miller

Another unintended consequence of the gun ban and buy back. Firearms that were illegally held prior to the ban can be handed in “no questions asked”.

So any firearm previously used in a crime, that could link the holder back to the crime, can now be handed in for distruction, and the evidence is lost. I wonder how many such firearms are going to be handed in.
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April 12, 2019 8:01am
- SGA
  
  Very few, I imagine. Are there that many unresolved crimes involving firearms? More important, of those cases, how often would the firearm strongly link the holder back to the crime – what evidence would the gun itself provide? Ballistics or shell casing analysis would only be useful if the gun was discharged and a bullet or casing was recovered at the scene. Perhaps if there was a clear photograph of the gun and it was very rare or unusual in some way? There may be a few cases, granted, but I doubt it is many.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:44am
- cmm
  
  “So any firearm previously used in a crime, that could link the holder back to the crime, can now be handed in for distruction, and the evidence is lost”
  
  Sorry mate, while I agree that the buyback and destruction are ridiculous, this is an absurd strawman.
  
  Anyone wanting to destroy evidence could just cut the firearm up with an angle grinder and chuck in into the sea.
  
  The truth is that anyone who has committed a crime with a gun, and is thus a criminal, is highly unlikely to hand in a firearm.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:01am
  - sooty
    
    Sorry! They aint going to ballistic test every gun! Why would you even need to give them your name, if you did not want the money!
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:38am
    - mark15
      
      Only legally held firearms get paid out
      
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      April 12, 2019 12:20pm
      - sooty
        
        Thats easy! Don’t hand it in!
        Was not legal yesterday, not legal today!
        What’s the differance?
        If they are not going to pay for it, why do it?
        
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        April 12, 2019 1:10pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Why aren’t the guns simply sold overseas – must be plenty of markets.
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:36am
    - sooty
      
      Transport would be the main proplem!
      Police could do a job lot to ISIS or similar, and get rid of the lot in one hit after picking the eyes out of it. If you have a very good gun and are handing it in, cut it up!
      
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      April 12, 2019 1:07pm
andrew davies

Turns out that Pete Buttigieg, the bright shiny Democrat candidate of the month, is a creationist. Who knew.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/10/mike-pence-says-pete-buttigieg-knows-better-after-criticism.html

I am sure Bill Maher and his fellow lefty atheists are delighted to learn that.

Isn’t life interesting.
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April 12, 2019 8:02am
- Jimmy
  
  Mayor Pete is trying to appear moderate and appeal to a very neglected segment of the American population – those who believe in God, and would like some left / centre-left economic policies.
  
  Unfortunately he is very liberal, advocating for zero restrictions on abortion, and now picking a fight with Mike Pence, a man who most God-believing Democrats actually respect to a large degree.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:35am
  - Batman
    
    Jimmy, I know it’s cool to claim that Democrats are advocating for zero restrictions on abortion, but do you have any proof? There doesn’t seem to be any.
    
    Also, I assume you mean that Democrats respect Pence over Trump? Everything is relative….
    
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    April 12, 2019 12:54pm
- mandk
  
  Given the absolute impossibility of abiogenesis and the fatal weaknesses of Darwinian evolution theory, being a Creationist is the only way to go.
  
  Just saying 🙂
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    I love a good pot stir in the morning….
    
    Thanks
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:30am
    - andrew davies
      
      TM you are on to it.
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:57am
Than

Well done Rugby Australia. A completely reasonable and appropriate response.

Israel Folau has the right to his beliefs. He has the right to freedom of speech, and his comments do not come remotely close to a level that should meet a legal definition of “hate speech”.

But that said, he does not have an automatic right to a $2m a year job.

Professional sport is entertainment. Folau’s job (like all other professional sportspeople) is ultimately not just about winning games – that’s only a means to an end. His job is to get people enthused about the sport. To get them attending games, paying for TV sports packages, and buying merchandise. All of which people only do if they feel proud about their team.

Folau’s comments were a massive kick in the nuts for both the Waratah’s and Rugby Australia’s image with their fans. In any other job if you deliberately sabotaged the company you would be sacked, and the same thing should (and is) applying here. The fact that he has gone to ground and is refusing to even talk to his employer hardly helps his case.
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April 12, 2019 8:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Spot on Than. After he made public comments last year which almost cost Rugby Australia its major sponsor, Qantas, Folau had a clause added to his RA contract expressly forbidding him from expressing his views on social media. You can make the presumption that he signed the revised contract, after taking legal advice.
  
  It’s not the “homophobic” comments that are the issue; it’s his relationship with his employer. He seems determined to spark an employment dispute, and you can’t help but wonder if he already has a new contract jacked up somewhere else.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:21am
  - Local Miller
    
    Actually there is a legal argument that his contact not to make such comment may be null and void. There is a basic principle in law that you can’t be made to sign away rights that you hold under law.
    
    Since under Australian law he has the right to freedom of speech, he possibly can’t be forced to abrogate that right in a personal contract.
    
    I’d be interested in a lawyers opinion on this.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:38am
    - Nick R
      
      Hi LM! Lawyer here. You’re completely wrong. There is no such principle. You can make all sorts of contracts in which you promise not to exercise some sort of right that you would otherwise be entitled to exercise. Confidentiality/non-disclosure agreements are an obvious example. So are contracts in which you promise not to do or say anything which brings someone else into disrepute.
      
      Cheers!
      
      Nick R
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:49am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Right. But can they ban you from a whole industry for having specific religious views. Here’s an excerpt from a lawyer about restraint of trade “The starting point for restraint of trade clauses is that they are not enforceable because they can prevent fair competition and prevent employees earning a living. But restraint of trade clauses are lawful, and enforceable, if they are “reasonable”. Employers are allowed use a “reasonable” restraint to stop employees taking unfair advantage when they leave. So the key question is what is a reasonable restraint of trade clause?” The result for Falau is it stops him earning a living in his country. Is this reasonable. Is a clause that stops you from expressing your religious or political beliefs in public reasonable ? Is it only on instagram or must he also stop talking at his church – because the media showed a video clip of him speaking at church. I am an atheist and was not offended by his statement. I just think those beliefs are bizarre and idiotic. Is it hate speech to say so?
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:50am
  - Billy Collins
    
    “It’s not the “homophobic” comments that are the issue; it’s his relationship with his employer.”
    
    Yea, but nobody cares about that. No headline is saying “Folau violates contract”, “Jacinda comments on Folau violating contract”. If that were the case, no one would care. The only ones who would care would be hardcore rugby fans, and Aussies worried about losing a great player to the game.
    
    If that were the case, why would that be an issue for the public? That would just be a private thing.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Folau matter could land up in Court. The enforceability of a term in a contract denying someone work for speaking out as Folau has done on a non-work related matter is arguable as being contrary to public policy. Folau’s views are hardly relevant to his ball skills.
      
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      April 12, 2019 5:32pm
      - Billy Collins
        
        He is not employed for his ball skills though, ultimately. He is employed to make money. Him speaking out does affect their money making.
        
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        April 12, 2019 7:19pm
- Chris R
  
  You are more than likely correct. I would prefer to read the employment contract before being certain though. If the contract states that he cannot espouse his faith, it (the contract) could be struck down as an assault on his human rights. Simply not enough information at this time.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:24am
- kowtow
  
  Yep , image is everything. Quantas a big , important sponsor , and a partner airline of Emirates…….’nuf said.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:28am
- G152
  
  He is only repeating what gets said in churches every Sunday.
  For evidence that the bible is not a touchy feelie book use http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm to see just how violent and sexist it really is…
  I may not like what he said but we do pretend to tolerate freedom of speech
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:33am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  He doesn’t have a right to a job. He does have the right not to be discriminated against by his employer because of his religious views. It is a legal right not a moral right, and not one I necessarily support, but conservative Christians are just as entitled to be protected by it as anyone else.
  
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  April 12, 2019 10:12am
Yvette

Israel Folau, the jewel in Rugby Australia’s crown, shared yet another disgusting, homophobic slur with the rest of the world –
with most media being a little dishonest in two respects –

1 – Many reports show only the “headline” panel of the post, and not the Bible text [1] that accompanies it, and

2 – Of the 18 candidate categories that the text names as people destined for Hell, media have selected homosexuals for their headlines and offended discomfort, again

Why is the whole deal just seen as homophobic?
What about the idolators, haters and variancers? Doesn’t anyone give a fuck about them?
Are there no really motivated liarphobes, atheistophobic, or fornicatorphobes out there?

And then there is Folau himself who is somewhat at fault telling this bunch of sinners that Hell awaits them when the Bible actually says “… that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
And elsewhere, in the New Testament someplace, Jesus says “the kingdom of God is within you” – just to confuse the issue further.
So the text doesn’t actually mention ‘Hell’ or name ‘homosexuals’.

But Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is onto it – “I am very mindful of the fact that for many, he is a role model – he is a person in a position of influence”
Yep! – Those who would take what Israel says as Gospel: they who art revelling idolators, perhaps have envyings and may seek emulations – are already on their skates

No wonder John the Baptist ran into trouble hollering in the wilderness: ‘Make straight the way of the Lord'”
________
[1] Galatians 5:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Oops, the nurse is coming
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April 12, 2019 8:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Interestingly Yvette, Eugene Petersen’s excellent The Message transliteration of the Bible doesn’t mention homosexuality at all:
  
  19-21 It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.
  
  This isn’t the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God’s kingdom.
  
  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5&version=MSG
  
  Nor does the New International Version, which seems to be the most popular translation of the Bible at megachurches such as Hillsongs, where the Folaus go.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:28am
  - Scott
    
    Can’t agree with you there Tony.
    Here is the relevant passage of Galatians 5 from the NIV –
    Galatians 5:19-21
    (NIV)
    19 “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
    
    Homosexuality is covered I think you will find in the words sexual immorality.
    
    However the definitive verse in the new Testament is found in Romans 1 –
    “Romans 1:24-27
    (NIV)
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:34am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The issues are plainly Biblical. That does not mean they will go away if ignored.
      
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      April 12, 2019 5:38pm
  - mandk
    
    The Message is neither a translation, nor a transliteration, of the Bible.
    
    It is a paraphrase, and not a particularly good one at that.
    
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    April 12, 2019 8:46am
  - rangitoto
    
    Pah. Get a real bible, KJV written in good King James English, just like the sky pixie Jesus spoke.
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:58am
    - Local Miller
      
      You will note that Christians on this blog like Scott and I don’t go off half cocked about the fact you have jest insulted the Son of god. 🙂
      
      So why are Christians so often being called bigoted and intolerant?
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:25am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The world sees us Christians as foolish, but watch the changes when a non-believer through the Holy Spirit accepts Jesus as his personal Saviour. Amazing how lives are changed: the works of God in peoples lives speak for the Trinity.
        Folau is reminding the world that there is accountability.
        
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        April 12, 2019 5:45pm
- tf78
  
  Is Folau married or does he live in sin – just wondering.
  
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  April 12, 2019 10:35am
  - Scott
    
    tf78 – I think you will find that Israel Folau is married to the lovely Maria Folau who plays netball for New Zealand.
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/03/more-than-just-a-name-maria-still-adjusting-to-life-as-a-folau.html
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:59am
    - stoptheboats
      
      Israel left the Media of his list by mistake , dont want them to feel left out
      
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      April 12, 2019 11:53am
All_on_Red

Funny how Ukraine keeps coming up with the Obama Whitehouse as a source of corrupt influence.
‘Former Obama administration White House counsel Greg Craig has been indicted by the Department of Justice with making false statements and concealing material information about his activities on behalf of Ukraine. Lawyers for Craig expected their client to be charged in a foreign lobbying investigation spun off from special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe,’
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-obama-white-house-counsel-greg-craig-indicted/

Hey, what about that Hunter Biden. He did alright too.
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April 12, 2019 8:13am
- Fletch
  
  Also Attorney General William Barr told a Senate panel Wednesday that yes, there was spying on the Trump campaign by the Obama govt and that he is going to look into it. He said it so plain that one member of the panel asked if he’d like to rephrase his words because the media would go crazy about it. But Barr basically declined.
  
  “Do you wanna rephrase … I think the word ‘spying’ could cause people in the cable news ecosystem to freak out.”
  
  Barr: “Unauthorized surveillance … is that more appropriate in your eyes?”
  
  https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1116004579114721282/video/1
  
  We all knew there was spying. The FISA warrants prove it. Hopefully this begins to drain the swamp.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:12am
  - MickMac
    
    Fletch
    12:33
    The swamp will start being drained only when the perpetrators and those who ordered it go before a court.
    
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    April 12, 2019 12:34pm
hullkiwi

According to RNZ news, there are now white supremacists at Auckland University making some unidentified students feel unsafe. The evidence, some graffiti around campus.

FFS, I was a student at Auckland in the late 1970s/80s, student groups always sprayed their graffiti around the Student Union area (usually left wing/Socialist Action and other left causes), if the National Party or any other right of centre group complained we felt it wasn’t safe we would have got laughed at.

These left wing SJWs are modern day McCartyists and they are every bit as dangerous for democracy.
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April 12, 2019 8:14am
- ducklin71
  
  Hullkiwi I must admit i’m a political junkie since i was in my teens, and to me one of the greatest events of the 20th century was the spectacular collapse of the Soviet Union. It wasn’t that long ago we spent decades in a cold war. The current generation of 20-somethings obviously know f*ck all about what that represents. History is repeating itself.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:31am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    This current generation, and probably the previous one also, has no concept of real danger. Hence the “we live in the most dangerous…” nonsense – also the “most inequitable…” rubbish that they spout.
    
    The knife-edge game of nuclear brinkmanship that effectively ended with the end of the soviet union. Minutes from destruction for nearly 40 years, and if you want to see how close it really came then forget Cuba and google Able Archer 83. That is terrifying in hindsight.
    
    North Korean nukes pfft, feck all.
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:39am
  - tf78
    
    I think history has been removed from the current generation so they can not learn from past mistakes.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:37am
    - ducklin71
      
      Certainly seems that way. I wonder how the “snowflakes” would cope in a real crisis. (God help us) I grew up near a US Navy and NASA base in California. During my entire childhood and teen years the Navy sub-hunters patrolled the California coast every single day for signs of the enemy. Year after year. I also remember spotlights searching the sky every night. We were taught what it meant. And it stuck.
      
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      April 12, 2019 11:24am
  - hullkiwi
    
    duckling, yes history is repeating. Except in a turn of events it is the left hunting out the right. Instead of the Joe McCarthy type politicians, we have the media and other proclaimed “experts” warning us about “white supremacists under the beds” or about the use of hate speech.
    
    The irony is that the media, left and the so-called experts advocate:
    – More laws against st hate speech (but apparently they don’t want to damage “Freedom of Speech” – how?);
    – more surveillance of extreme right groups – but who and where are these groups?
    
    So, are these people really trying to protect our democracy or are they just demonising and using the power of the state to harass their opponents?
    
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    April 12, 2019 1:06pm
    - ducklin71
      
      “White supremacists under the beds”! Exactly. All of the sudden they’re everywhere if the media is to be believed. They are trying to milk the 15th of March for all they can get, as is the COL Govt.
      Good luck trying to define “hate speech” without affecting free speech. How about “I’m not racist, I hate everybody”!
      
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      April 12, 2019 2:42pm
- cmm
  
  It is ridiculous to suggest there is a secret society of neo-nazis on campus just because of some graffiti. Students through the ages have always written stuff on the walls etc just to wind people up.
  
  I went to UCT (Cape Town) in the early 1980s. The place was full of anti-apartheid types. They took themselves very seriously and were ripe for a wind up.
  
  Somehow “Hang Mandela” graffiti ended up on the walls in the same colour paint as some mates had. They were hardly racists, and hardly knew who Mandela was, but loved to cause trouble.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:18am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Sensitive wee things.
  
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  April 12, 2019 11:01am
Dafixeruppa

I must say, I don’t understand all the angst about Israel folau. If you are religious you already believe what he’s saying, if you’re not religious, you don’t believe in hell anyway, so why care about some person saying you’ll go to a fictitious place?
Or is it really all about, let’s bash the Christian guy because he won’t fight back?
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April 12, 2019 8:17am
- Than
  
  As somebody on Folau’s hell-bound list (atheist) I can speak to that. Even though I don’t believe in heaven/hell, I do believe that Folau and those who share his views think I am an evil person. And that view can have very real consequences in the here and now.
  
  There is the saying hate the sin, love the sinner… well, my observation is it very rarely happens that way. People who genuinely believe somebody else to be evil typically have no problem insulting those people, no regard for their views or feelings. They might refuse to associate with them, or turn a blind eye to discrimination and restrictions on their rights. At an extreme level they may regard them as less than human, and therefore be more willing to inflict violence on them.
  
  This has happened numerous times before in history. And sadly it is almost inevitable that it will at some point happen again.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:46am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Than, I’m sure Brian and Bobbie Houston at Hillsongs just LOVE Mr and Mrs Folau every week when their tithe goes into the Hillsongs bank account!
    
    Disclaimer: Although I am a practising Christian (who probably doesn’t practice enough, if Folau’s list is anything to go by!) I have a healthy cynicism for mega churches. That said, some of their worship music is pretty cool, especially that penned by Brooke Ligertwood (nee Fraser) 😀
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:43am
  - Anne Glen Eden
    
    May I just say, I don’t think you’re ‘evil’ because you’re an atheist – and I would fight to the death for your right to believe what you choose.
    
    Having said that, it’s just a little ironic that your description of possible evil applies primarily to your own attitudes in relation to Folau:
    
    “People who genuinely believe somebody else to be evil typically have no problem insulting those people, no regard for their views or feelings. They might refuse to associate with them, or turn a blind eye to discrimination and restrictions on their rights. At an extreme level they may regard them as less than human, and therefore be more willing to inflict violence on them.”
    
    Ironic as well that you can’t see that it’s already happening – you’re watching it in action. Just from what you believe is the ‘right’ (and your) side. That’s the problem with human nature in a totalitarian society. If you believe you have the ‘truth’, everyone else is ‘fair game’. And the only guarantee to never discovering ‘truth’ is believing that you already have it.
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:46am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Than” there is a big gap between thinking you’re evil and deserve to rot in “hell” and actually sending you there.
    
    I have never seen any violence or suggestion of violence from Israel Folau and I personally don’t give a fat rat’s arse about his opinon, religion or what he thinks about the day of the week.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:37am
  - MickMac
    
    Than
    You are not an evil person unless you are?!
    
    Folau didn’t call you or anyone an evil person…
    
    What Falou said was if you meet the criteria of the txt you will go to Hell.
    So Repent!
    
    Whilst you might not find that loving, it is, As he is giving you a choice or at least pointing you towards one.
    
    Incidently Osam Bin Ladin did a similar thing in sending the challenge to convert and become a Muslim to both Australia and New Zealand.
    So we’ve been served.
    The next is Jihad to subdue us.
    Thats all legal to them (in sharia)….
    
    Now is that loving?
    
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    April 12, 2019 12:39pm
- kowtow
  
  The people who are happy to pile in on him had better be careful .
  
  Today it’s his views that are ‘unacceptable” or offensive” or what ever .
  
  Tomorrow , depending who is in power , in the media or the determinators of what is the current orthodoxy , could be coming for you .
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:49am
- Evadne
  
  The ARU were quite clear in their official statement why Folau has to go:
  
  “Rugby is a sport that continuously works to unite people. We want everyone to feel safe and welcome in our game and no vilification based on race, gender, religion or sexuality is acceptable and no language that isolates, divides, or insults people based on any of those factors can be tolerated.”
  
  Perhaps he wasn’t displaying enough unity and tolerance for those with a different religious belief?
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:51am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Doesn’t the ARU have any moral standards?
    
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    April 12, 2019 3:45pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Apparently Folau is a “role model”.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:09am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Who is about to be rolled. Storm in a teacup for the snowflakes, I am not offended by it at all.
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:18am
- Ed Snack
  
  This, totally. If you don’t believe that hell exists, why would you be upset if someone things you’re going there?
  
  What if he’d implied you’d end up in Eketahuna ?
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:18am
  - rangitoto
    
    Now that would be a threat to be concerned about.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:02am
  - Tall Man
    
    Way worse and you know it…so no selfies for you but you may get a “hurty face” pic in your mailbox.
    
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    April 12, 2019 10:38am
sooty

Shane Jones is been asked to resign by Nationals Paul Goldsmith for asking the boss of NZTA questions about the logging company up north! NZTA has been offering immunity and amnesty to the Filipino truck drivers to spy on their employers. Does this come with permanent residencey, a state house as well as the ability to import all of their family.
I think that National should be looking more closely into these claims of spying for a visa!
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April 12, 2019 8:22am
- alien
  
  Ah no. Nzta were offering immunity to ANY truck driver with information of illegal activities by the company they work for. The racist for the regions decided to add Filipino into it. And no they weren’t offered visas.
  
  “NZTA has been running a hotline encouraging people with evidence of illegal activity to report it.
  
  Haszard said the agency could only offer whistleblowers immunity from prosecution for regulations it was responsible for enforcing.
  
  That could include a driver who had breached limits on driving hours under pressure from an employer. ”
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111976628/shane-jones-called-on-to-resign-over-intervention-in-prosecution-of-a-northland-transport-company
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Jones has overplayed his hand, and his demonstrably compromised the prosecution via his approach to the head of NZTA. He has almost certainly breached the Cabinet Manual.
    
    Will anything happen? I doubt it. But if she was really bold, Ardern could take advantage of the poll released yesterday which showed Labour at almost 50% and NZF at 2.3%, sack Jones, collapse the coalition, and go to the polls. Is she, or are any of those advising her that brave?
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:48am
    - Komata
      
      TS@0948
      
      Nah, she’s not that brave. Why rock the boat when you are in command and can ‘manipulate’ things at will?
      
      Dim she may be, but ‘Stupid’ she isn’t.
      
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      April 12, 2019 9:57am
      - alien
        
        Wouldn’t surprise me actually if Hoskins is right and she jumps ship for a high profile UN job.
        
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        April 12, 2019 10:09am
      - Tall Man
        
        Sorry “alien” hit “report” in error.
        
        Missed the “uptick” by () that much….
        
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        April 12, 2019 10:41am
      - alien
        
        I constantly hit report instead of reply, damn tablet
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:11am
      - Tall Man
        
        Stop taking them then 😉
        
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        April 12, 2019 3:58pm
    - alien
      
      Nope, nothing because she can’t do anything. Winston first has her. Do anything and they’ll pull her down. But we know from actions of her own labour ministers she would do nothing anyway.
      
      I do not think she’d win an election. I think the current poll is based on the Christchurch attack. If you put the other things into it, cuts to hip and knee replacements, pharmac, cgt, gun buy back, benefits, etc etc labour wouldn’t win
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:04am
      - Tall Man
        
        Perhaps we could start a “givealittle page” to crowd fund her departure.
        
        What would it take…… $10 bucks each from 500,000 honest non lying Kiwis?
        
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        April 12, 2019 10:42am
      - alien
        
        Won’t it be mor fun to wait a few weeks, Celebrities no longer coming and praising her, petrol at record highs, businesses slowing down, and labour sliding in the polls
        
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        April 12, 2019 11:14am
Maggie Pie

We were watching 3Nwes last nite and up popped Jamie-Lea Ross calling for a ban on foreign donations to poloitical parties. The thing that really stunned my partner, was that he had no idea the head of the SIS was actually a woman! He had always believed that position would be held by a man, someone in the style of your ‘M’. Although he did say Rebecca Kitteridge would probaly make a quite good Miss Moneypenny.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_medium/3/37015/901069-lois_maxwell1.jpg
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April 12, 2019 8:24am
- All_on_Red
  
  Let me guess. Your ‘partner’ also thinks ‘M’ stands for mysogynist too?
  I guess he’s going to be even more surprised to learn M was played by Judi Dench in about 8 James Bond films
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:48am
- alloytoo
  
  Ross’s entire purpose for being appears to attempt to undermine or embarrass the National party.
  
  Frankly if this is the best ammo he can bring to bear than it would appear that:
  
  A) National is pretty clean.
  B) National was certainly never the correct political home for Ross.
  C) National is much cleaner for him having left.
  
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  April 12, 2019 11:49am
harvey wilson

Tough day at the Breen household , the gropers list will need an update after Geoffrey Rush was proven not to be a groper and Assange is going to face charges .
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April 12, 2019 8:25am
sooty

So Brenton Tarrant said he had nine people helping him!
Who was the other voices on the video?
What are we not been told?
Is there a cover up?
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April 12, 2019 8:30am
- mandk
  
  Not sure if there is a cover up.
  
  But EAD-TWO will be able to put us straight when he comes out of the naughty corner in a few days time.
  
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  April 12, 2019 8:50am
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    And speaking of our friends returning from exile soon, I’m wondering how Stephieboy will spin this one next week:
    
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/michael-avenatti-indicted-by-federal-grand-jury-in-los-angeles.html
    
    36 Federal indictments.
    
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    April 12, 2019 2:01pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  We wont be told the truth about this incident. The spooks and the Police will be covering up to try and deflect from their faults.
  
  Forget the Commission. The Commissioner will have been given the draft of the final report when he was appointed.
  
  The Commission will be a sham to further burnish Cindys image and that of the COL.
  
  Of yes a few “learnings” will come out of the Commissions report and the spooks and the POlice will ‘promise to do better in the future”.
  
  But thats all.
  
  And the bad people who have the weapons now will still have the weapons after the buy back.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:00am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Did you have an extra helping of cynicism for breakfast lastmanstanding? I have seen nothing but positive feedback about Justice William Young since his appointment as commissioner was announced, and would be very surprised if he was a party to a fait-accompli.
    
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    April 12, 2019 9:52am
    - Tall Man
      
      The man may be honourable but the terms of reference will bind him unless he decides to “branch out” as in the ” “an orchestrated litany of lies”.” finding….
      
      Didn’t go well for him after that..
      
      “In 1983 the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council held that Mahon had made serious mistakes of law through acting in excess of his jurisdiction and in breach of natural justice by going on to make findings of a conspiracy by Air New Zealand to cover up the errors of the ground staff”
      
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      April 12, 2019 10:50am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Mahon shunted the responsibility home to the company: the rest was trying to dodge it.
        
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        April 12, 2019 2:43pm
Simon

Chinese scientists have put human brain genes in monkeys—and yes, they may be smarter

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613277/chinese-scientists-have-put-human-brain-genes-in-monkeysand-yes-they-may-be-smarter/

And then Labo gave them $3 billion to piss away.
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April 12, 2019 8:36am
Inandout

Qantas, Emirates, Qatar in a tripartite, those last two are from gay despising countries.
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April 12, 2019 8:41am
- sooty
  
  The last two might be the safest airlines to fly with as well! Will they bomb their own kind?
  
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  April 12, 2019 1:18pm
Rob2

https://www.facebook.com/1NEWSNZ/videos/2193207817674658/
build a bridge they said.
well done the army.
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April 12, 2019 8:46am
- alien
  
  Well done the downer contractors and army engineers.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:43am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Perhaps the Army could help a few other carch up projects
    
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    April 12, 2019 11:52am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      catch, must wear glasses lol
      
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      April 12, 2019 3:07pm
- Tall Man
  
  That’ll do them for another 50 years….
  
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  April 12, 2019 10:52am
Rob2

How we can predict the worlds climate. Its like all things cyclic. Science wins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDOgWeTAas0&fbclid=IwAR2ErrwXOEimT7-PZ_lVh-4x9Ly84hoN_KY_0ySq37GWTDeb31v2SLyp-To
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April 12, 2019 8:48am
stinkypete

So dumbleddore faked his death and hid in the equatorian embassy?
Nice twist JK Rowling
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April 12, 2019 8:49am
Rob2

The Attempted Coup Against Trump

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-attempted-coup-against-trump_2874459.html?fbclid=IwAR2BVpyRveDZiIyr958Kv92rq0KfpZXjWrgrNQoSATPqeDdeMJoS8_Ge9WU

Ain’t it fun. The anti trump brigade will be crying in their prison cells soon.
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April 12, 2019 8:49am
lastmanstanding

The outrage against Israel Folau proves my definition of Hate Speech that I have posted at KB on several occasions.

Hate Speech is anything you say that I dont agree with.

The irony is that Folaus statement is no different to the statements of followers of Islam yet any criticism of Muslims is met with the accusation of Islamophobia.

I say those outraged at Folau are guilty of Christianophobia.

Of course they are either too thick or too evil to see it.
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April 12, 2019 8:49am
- Anne Glen Eden
  
  “Of course they are either too thick or too evil to see it.”
  
  It’s both/and – not either/or.
  
  Of course it’s Christianophobia’.
  
  As a religion, it counsels against hedonism, which consumes the world. It counsels against self-obsession, which also consumes the world. It counsels against lies, which consume the world. It’s the only thing standing in the way of the mass establishment and acceptance of Dante’s Inferno:
  
  “In the poem, Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the “realm … of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen”.
  
  Which is not to say that Israel Folau projects what I would consider to be the best teaching. His quotes tend to focus on behaviour – while you can’t be saved or damned by ‘works’, rather than emphasising the perversion of the human heart commitment toward fraud and malice.
  
  You’d think humanity could learn something as simple as ‘by their fruits you shall know them’.
  
  Just who is hurting or trying to hurt other human beings (on any level) in this situation? It certainly isn’t Israel Folau.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:18am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Or he could have been telling them to go out for Pizza!!!
    
    2 0
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    April 12, 2019 11:57am
Maggie Pie

Back in the late 90’s, my partner worked on commission selling Jap imports for a car dealer in Otahuhu. He was saying you can imagine how the Rolls Royce salesman would be feeling, after standing in their lonely showroom for moths on end, when suddenly some Plum arrives with $500k in his saddlebags, and wants to buy the white Wraith – the one that’s been sitting on the showroom floor for the last 12 months.
As my partner said, “Who the hell would buy a Wraith ‘in white’ for christ sake?”
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April 12, 2019 9:00am
- sooty
  
  A born again religious nutter or a media wannabe!
  
  1 0
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  April 12, 2019 10:53am
- brett68
  
  What’s with the my partner “comedy” act?
  Also , It’s rather obvious that you’re not a woman.
  
  5 8
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  April 12, 2019 11:10am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Lol!! I just showed my partner yor comment
    He reckons “you sound like a bit of a sad b ~ ~ tard” 🙂
    
    7 3
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    April 12, 2019 12:43pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      A bit?
      
      3 0
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      April 12, 2019 3:05pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I admire the persistence to avoid the help from auto correct!
    
    1 0
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    April 12, 2019 12:46pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  A Comanchero?
  
  2 0
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  April 12, 2019 11:58am
Albert_Ross

I see the abandonment of the ANZAC parade in Queenstown is being described as “a small sacrifice”.

Sacrifice: giving up something you value, for the sake of a more important cause.

Going on the March in the face of a possible threat because respect for the fallen is more important than your own safety – that would be a sacrifice.

Not doing so puts your own safety above the cause. It’s the precise opposite of a sacrifice.
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April 12, 2019 9:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I ssomeone preventing you from paying your respects on Anzac Day, or any other day for that matteer?
  
  3 29
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  April 12, 2019 9:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    In the manner and at the time they prefer…yes.
    
    23 4
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    April 12, 2019 10:54am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Would there be a service if not for the tragedy on the 15th? Then there is prevention and unnecessary disruption.
    
    7 0
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    April 12, 2019 12:00pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    My objection was to the use of the term “sacrifice”. Do you think the term is appropriate, and if so what is the thing of value that you see as having been given up?
    
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    April 12, 2019 12:24pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, as apparently now we need an armed Police guard to go about our business, despite all of Jacinda’s arse kissing. keep calm and carry on NZ, no hat tip to Sidney James or Barbara Windsor i think too.
      
      2 0
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      April 12, 2019 2:59pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Not given up, taken from us.
      
      1 0
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      April 12, 2019 3:04pm
JibberJabber

My God sez Idolatry and Drunkenness is ok.
Til Valhal!
In fact, drunkeness is compulsory.
Til Valhal! *hic*….
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April 12, 2019 9:45am
herb1

Marama Davidson on behalf of the Green Party has now branded the Koran as hate speech . Her tweet branding Folaus tweets warning Gays of the error of their ways , as hate speech can be interpreted in no other way. Folau was warning Gays they’d go to hell . The Koran implores followers to actively send Gays to hell. Can’t have it both ways Marama
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April 12, 2019 9:49am
- Komata
  
  Herbl@0949
  
  But she will, she definitely will, as long as it is about HER…
  
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  April 12, 2019 10:02am
Odakyu-sen

“Sacrifice: giving up something you value, for the sake of a more important cause.”

When pubic safety is the “more important cause” then it is a sacrifice.
If anyone were to be injured in an ANZAC attack, civil servents’ pensions would be on the line, and we can’t have that…
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April 12, 2019 9:49am
mikenmildagain

Happy International Day of Human Space Flight!
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April 12, 2019 10:02am
- alien
  
  What about the monkeys and dogs
  
  9 0
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  April 12, 2019 10:10am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Fun fact: the first animals in space were fruit flies, and were safely recovered.
    
    4 7
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    April 12, 2019 10:40am
    - alien
      
      Never knew that, thanks
      
      2 0
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      April 12, 2019 11:09am
  - Tall Man
    
    The coalition you mean?
    
    8 0
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    April 12, 2019 10:55am
Rob2

The fun police strike again.

A dump truck ferry crossing the Waiho River, near Franz Josef, has shut down after the operator got a visit from the police.

Local Tim Gibb had been using a 38-tonne dump truck to ferry up to 35 cars across the river each day as a replacement for the almost 30-year-old Waiho River bridge, which was washed away by the flooded river on

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111985260/franz-josef-truck-ferry-shuts-down-after-authorities-warn-of-safety-risk

It was going to happen anyway but wtf are the police doing?

First drugs,then guns then speech then ???
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April 12, 2019 10:09am
- Tall Man
  
  His dump truck, my car…fuck off.
  
  17 0
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  April 12, 2019 10:56am
  - calendar girl
    
    Ingenuity killed by the Police.
    
    11 0
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    April 12, 2019 12:51pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Under what rule of law?
      Mr Plod wouldn’t have made an administrator he was a bit dull and rule-bound.
      
      3 0
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      April 12, 2019 2:32pm
- sooty
  
  Fun police spoil it again.
  People with cars stuck on one side of a river.
  How come the police were not there with helicpoters ferrying people or organising the army to do it?
  Besides, would it not be worksafe inspectors?
  
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  April 12, 2019 11:02am
- alien
  
  Looks like either the police ignored it for a while knowing he was helping people, or they just couldn’t work out how to get over the river to stop him.
  
  10 1
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  April 12, 2019 11:09am
- JibberJabber
  
  More than likely someone (ie. the Taxman) wasn`t getting their cut.
  
  10 0
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  April 12, 2019 11:17am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Kiwi ingenuity at its best, I bet the customers would have been grateful.
  
  9 0
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  April 12, 2019 12:23pm
brett68

If Ardern fires Jones, can Peters go form a new government with National?
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April 12, 2019 11:11am
- alien
  
  Yes
  
  2 1
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  April 12, 2019 12:32pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Theoretically yes, but I would hope that National would reject the offer.
  I think a better strategy might be to make sure LinkedIn are send job opportunities at the UN to Jacinda
  
  11 2
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  April 12, 2019 12:54pm
  - Nermal
    
    Can you imagine Bridges turning down the opportunity to be PM?
    
    0 1
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    April 12, 2019 4:27pm
- brett68
  
  That’s what I thought.
  
  So, comments that Ardern should sack Jones and then call a snap election so she can rule outright are a bit silly then?
  
  Even though everyone’s mouths would drop open, I wouldn’t be surprised if National with Bridges at the helm did a deal with NZ First.
  
  Which is probably why Cinders has to grin and bear it, must be tough for super girl knowing that it all rests on some drunken old coot that she has no control over.
  
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  April 12, 2019 1:35pm
Maggie Pie

I see parliament has gone into recession until the 30th of the month. I’ve enjoyed watching ‘Question Time’ most of this week cos i like to keep abrest of events. Theres been a few things that have really stood out to me over recent days – Paula looks like she may have put a bit of beef back on, both Nick Smith and David Parker appear to be sharing the same comb, and i only just realised how attractive labors Jo Luxton was when she stood to ask a patsy question. Roll on the end of April.
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April 12, 2019 11:18am
- Rachael Membery
  
  More time off than teachers.
  
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  April 12, 2019 12:24pm
Komata

The obvious question : IF a private individual has the nous and initiative to do thus and get it underway quickly, then WHY DIDN’T the LTSA etc show the same initiative and do something similar? I’m told (perhaps incorrectly) that things have reverted to ‘nothing’, with no replacement now in place. If that is in fact the case, IMHO this ‘removal without replacement’ action, raises questions about ‘professional jealousy’.

It’s always easier to complain than do something.
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April 12, 2019 11:44am
Rodney Randall

Spoke to Rangiora High School student recently who stated that in the wake of the tragic Christchurch Mosque attacks, the school banned the colour red for mufti day. She stated that the colour was deemed offensive. She stated that most of the students thought it was a joke until she was threatened with suspension for wearing red shoes to school.

This student also stated that strict rules have been imposed with respect to art classes and what can be drawn/painted.

She stated that if it got any worse her parents would remove her from the school.

“PC gone mad” were the students exact words.

Make of this what you will.
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April 12, 2019 11:59am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How insensitive having a mufti day.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mufti_(dress)
  
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  April 12, 2019 1:19pm
- kowtow
  
  Rangiora , home of the Saracens Rugby Club . Wacists!
  
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  April 12, 2019 1:54pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Seems senior teachers have taken to wearing jackboots and brownshirts.
  
  3 0
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  April 12, 2019 2:50pm
- cmm
  
  Can anyone explain why red?
  
  I can’t make the connection.
  
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  April 12, 2019 4:38pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Prophet forbad men from wearing clothing that was all red…
    
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/8341/wearing-red-clothes
    
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    April 12, 2019 4:45pm
    - cmm
      
      Odd. Did Rangiora HS really just do what the Prophet said?
      
      I hope they also caned the girls for showing too much leg.
      
      Kids need a consistent message and they won’t grow up properly if you only enforce some of the rules. I’m sure the Prophet would agree with me on that.
      
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      April 12, 2019 4:50pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”I hope they also caned the girls for showing too much leg”……
        
        Caning is so yesterday! The punishment de jour requires the student to be buried up to her neck in sand, then stoned.
        
        2 0
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        April 12, 2019 5:32pm
stoptheboats

Israel Folau – speaking truth to power (of evil)
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April 12, 2019 12:05pm
- greybeard
  
  Here is an email I sent to Peter Williams on Magic Talk yesterday.
  
  1. SBW.
  Plays rugby, rugby league, boxes.
  Converted to Islam, business manager is a muslim. Never talks about his faith ( except when he turns up on TV in public in muslim garb after the March 15th massacre. Nice touch. )
  Held up by many in NZ as some sort of a godlike role model, especially for young people.
  His beliefs , and the specific ideology behind his beliefs, are never challenged, never mentioned in the same sentence as his name.
  
  2. Israel Folau.
  Plays rugby.
  Is a self-professed Christian.
  Unashamedly speaks publicly about his beliefs and his faith.
  Is immediately held up by the media to ridicule, disapprobation, hate.
  
  Interestingly, the things that Israel Folau opposes ( homosexuality, adultery, theft, etc etc ) are exactly the same things abhorred by Islam and which form the basis for their teachings in the Koran. And therefore followed by SBW !
  
  Islam’s solution to homosexuality is to chuck them off tall buildings. Think about that
  
  To all the Israel Folau critics and haters I say: you are all bloody hypocrites.
  
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  April 12, 2019 3:45pm
cmm

I am shocked at the gross insensitivity of various outlets stocking RSA ANZAC biscuit tins.

Some of these show pictures of people with GUNS including one of a very evil looking soldier lining up his rifle on a poor victim.

People might walk past and be traumatized.
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April 12, 2019 12:15pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Poppies to be banned next? A precursor?
  
  14 0
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  April 12, 2019 12:25pm
  - cmm
    
    Yup all those poor opium junkies trying to go straight …
    
    7 0
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    April 12, 2019 1:18pm
  - sooty
    
    What’s wrong with flower power?
    I’ll get Tiny Tim to seranade you none stop for six hours!
    
    2 0
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    April 12, 2019 1:23pm
    - Komata
      
      Sooty@1323
      
      I can assure you that that is NOT a pleasant experience (Don’t ask).
      
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      April 12, 2019 7:05pm
  - kowtow
    
    Funny old world .
    
    The anti mob must have been delighted as through the ’60s , ’70s and ’80s the whole commemorative thing was dying off . Not many going to the Cenotaphs etc, wasn’t cool or whatever.
    
    Part of the anti Vietnam , anti war ,anti USA , love Mao , love Che Guevarra , we’re so mod movement.
    
    Then almost out of nowhere young Ozzies first and then Kiwis really got behind it . Resurgent in the UK too .
    
    Where’s the resurgence come from ? It’s great innit .
    
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    April 12, 2019 1:31pm
Rodney Randall

Correction: The student was threatened with detention not suspension.
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April 12, 2019 12:16pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  The student also stated that this was not some written policy but a verbal decision.
  
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  April 12, 2019 12:34pm
  - burt
    
    The fascists at the school would be smart enough to not write down those directives.
    
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    April 12, 2019 1:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So the Mosque Verbal abuser wasn’t an alt-right Trumpeter, White Supremacist after all….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111985185/man-who-abused-muslims-at-al-noor-mosque-in-christchurch-pleads-guilty

Just as some folks on here predicted… a mentally ill, booze/drug-affected individual.
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April 12, 2019 1:42pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  “I am sick of these f…wits, they need to f… off,” and “All Muslims are terrorists, they should get the f… out of here”, and “I’m over these Muslims and they need to leave”.
  
  I wonder if he lived near by and was just tired of the endless disruption of it all?
  
  top officer at scene was complained to about the guy and was: “nonchalant and disrespectful”, and “he asked me if I knew what freedom of speech was”.
  
  Heartening to see there are police who believe in freedom of speech. Kudo’s to that officer, sorry he has gotten in trouble over it.
  
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  April 12, 2019 2:14pm
- Bill felt
  
  From twitter (so it must be true!)
  
  Breaking!!! Twitter police silent on the Maori man who pleaded guilty after harassing terror victims outside the Mosque. Doesn’t quite fit their white guilty narrative….Morgan? Lizzie baby?
  
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  April 12, 2019 2:52pm
  - sooty
    
    Well that did not fit the narative, did it!
    Media pulling shit out it’s arse again?
    
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    April 12, 2019 4:25pm
  - RiP NZ
    
    Well Bill
    While you are seeking comment from Lizzie, maybe get her feminist woke views on this one,
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111991454/northland-marae-bans-women-from-site-during-building-phase
    
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    April 12, 2019 7:05pm
- cmm
  
  Still white people’s and Trump’s fault.
  
  Maori were all love and kisses until whites brought booze and drugs.
  
  And Trump invented hate.
  
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  April 12, 2019 4:35pm
  - Komata
    
    Cmm@1635
    
    On the basis of your very erudite comment, would you be interested in purchasing a bridge?
    
    (Asking for a friend)
    
    2 0
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    April 12, 2019 6:57pm
- Komata
  
  Maggie@1342
  
  And most significant of all, he was MAORI!
  
  Doesn’t quite fit the narrative does it?
  
  I doubt that his own (Davudson et al) will give him any attention, but if it had been an Anglo..!
  
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  April 12, 2019 7:02pm
Maggie Pie

Great news for Insomniacs – only 4 more sleeps till Easter!
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April 12, 2019 2:18pm
- sooty
  
  I think your calender needs winding.
  Friday 12th today. Easter Friday 19th.
  
  4 1
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  April 12, 2019 4:20pm
KevO'Brien

A wise head. See particularly CPR’s comments about the pending problem of robots, people, work and economics. These echo my own. The digital evolution can go too far. Is 5G safe for a population experiment by a supplier?

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/04/11/the-problem-with-wikipedia-and-the-digital-revolution/
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April 12, 2019 2:25pm
Captain Mainwaring

The Israeli space ship has lost power and crashed on the Moon’s surface, smashing into thousands of pieces.

“We will try again,” Netanyahu said. “We reached the moon, but we want to land more comfortably, and that is for the next time.”

That’s the spirit.
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April 12, 2019 2:58pm
Local Miller

Yesterday, I found out from my doctor that our very efficient /sarc/ health service has rated my condition P2 – high and said I can get an appointment with a specialist in… 4 months.

Doesn’t seem to matter that I’m in constant pain even though I’m on Tramadol, Doxazosin and ibuprofen (at various times of the day). If I don’t ration my pain meds I’ll became an addict while I wait for the specialist. After that, how long before I go under the knife?

At least I know with this government I’ll not just be another statistic, but that’s only because they have stopped tracking the level of service delivery.

They should apply the same standard to health care as we apply in IT. A P2 level problem means the client needs urgent attention, typically in hours, and certainly not in months!
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April 12, 2019 3:18pm
- Tall Man
  
  4 months IS urgent attention today…….
  
  Just be grateful it’s not an ACC issue as you’d get in to the specialist quickly then they’d fuck you around for 18 months just for the hell of it.
  
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  April 12, 2019 3:54pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    They always say 4 months but the last four times they’ve got me in within 6 weeks.
    I do suspect that this is only happening though because people further up the list are dying.
    
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    April 12, 2019 4:14pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Every cloud has a silver lining…….
      
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      April 13, 2019 11:01am
sooty

It’s just gone 4pm. What did Labour release today that they wanted hidden.
School holidays started.
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April 12, 2019 4:15pm
cmm

Hillarious seeing the melt down of an “internet influencer” who even phoned the cops because having her account deleted felt like a murder, like literally bro!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12221831

The real sad part is that a drop-kick like this would have any influence over anyone.

Are there really 113k people that sad that they depend on her every word? FFS, no wonder the West is becoming so pathetic!
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April 12, 2019 4:29pm
- nasska
  
  From cmm’s link:
  
  …..”Taylor says she worked at McDonald’s and as a sex worker before earning her money on Instagram but also adds she has “no skills”.”…..
  
  AND
  
  …..” “I’m not work material, will never be work material,” she adds.”…..
  
  We’ve cracked it! Stephieboy has finally been outed. 🙂
  
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  April 12, 2019 5:45pm
Ross12

The article is behind a paywall but the headline is enough for you get the interesting “message”. There would be a few in the MSM who would flip their lids over it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/israeli-millennials-tilting-right-helped-elect-netanyahu-11555002403
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April 12, 2019 4:44pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Jews generally have higher average IQ than goyim, so of course they tend right.
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:40pm
MrTips

Was waiting for this to come out. A media personality was involved in the recent Comanchero gang raid and arrests. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221844

Our media are very, very dodgy indeed.
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April 12, 2019 5:04pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Suppressed for ever no doubt, do we really have media personalities? in their own and each others minds perhaps.
  
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  April 12, 2019 5:42pm
- secondcumming
  
  How come they never seem to report whether those charged
  were *given bail or remanded in custody*?
  
  Which is it ?
  
  6 0
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  April 12, 2019 5:55pm
- rangitoto
  
  Do we need to read between the lines again.
  
  8 0
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  April 12, 2019 5:58pm
- nasska
  
  The Police Commissioner will in due course issue a statement telling us who is not under investigation.
  
  11 0
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  April 12, 2019 6:31pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Good to see you got bail, nasska.
    
    1 9
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    April 12, 2019 7:11pm
    - nasska
      
      It’s who you know, not what you know Mike.
      
      I used a false name & bought a Labour Party sub. 🙂
      
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      April 12, 2019 8:54pm
alien

A possible loophole in a new rushed law, gee, like no one saw that coming, how many more are there

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/newsevent/government-closes-potential-loophole-in-gun-buyback-scheme/ar-BBVRr0y?li=BBqdg4K
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April 12, 2019 8:07pm
- sooty
  
  Another nail in Whinneys coffin!
  
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  April 12, 2019 9:14pm
Rob2

So is the long arm of the Law going to reach out?
A media personality has been charged in connection with the Comanchero gang drug bust.

He appeared in court today and was granted interim name suppression before two registrars.

A raft of others, including a lawyer, have also appeared in the Auckland District Court in connection to the bust but all their identities will be kept secret for now.

Most of the people charged appeared in court yesterday in relation to charges of conspiracy to import methamphetamine and conspiracy to import the ingredients used in manufacturing the drug.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221844

Will Mr Lees-Galaway deport these fellows back to their homeland?
Or will he give them a hospital pass like he did some people with a similar history in the drug world?

While I despise Dutton in Australia and the way he has treated many people we should think seriously about a similar process.
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April 13, 2019 6:40am
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND: FINALLY … STARTING ON THE PATH OF RESTORING HOUSING AFFORDABILITY …

… A glimpse of the unnecessary destructive and disruptive flight to affordability … and the deepening public intolerance of urban governance / planning failure …essential viewing …

Otago and Southland experience booming property prices as Auckland’s dip … TVNZ

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/otago-and-southland-experience-booming-property-prices-aucklands-dip?auto=6025456808001

Miserable end to summer for the housing market, especially in Auckland where March sales volumes were down 18% compared to March last year … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/99106/miserable-end-summer-housing-market-especially-auckland-where-march-sales-volumes

The housing market appears to have had a miserable end to summer with the number of sales in March slumping by 12.9% compared to March last year, according to the latest data from the Real Estate Institute of NZ. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… as new housing production lifts … allowing the more efficient new housing production industry to be restored (the United States, Canada and Australia maintained theirs all along) … and the grossly inefficient and costly cottage building industry to retreat …

New dwelling consents are particularly strong in Auckland led by growth in apartments … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/98879/new-dwelling-consents-are-particularly-strong-auckland-led-growth-apartments

The construction industry’s grumpiness may be the result of a forced shift in focus towards more affordable housing, says Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/99009/construction-industrys-grumpiness-may-be-result-forced-shift-focus-towards-more
.
.
… The political direction is clear …

New Zealaned Housing Minister Phil Twyfords speech to the New Zealand Initiative Members Retreat … New Zealand Government / Beehive

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-nz-initiative-members%E2%80%99-retreat

… extract …

… In our view there are three big challenges that have to be addressed:

1. A broken system for financing infrastructure

2. A planning system based on urban containment

3. The failure of governments until now, both local and central, to actively work with the private sector to enable urban growth and expansion.

… concluding …

… I talked about the land banking and speculative economy, and the pressure cooker that has given us some of the most obscenely expensive housing in the world.

These moves are designed to change that. …

… If we do these things we can truly flood the market with development opportunities. We can break the land banking economy, and drive down the cost of urban land.

We can achieve more competitive urban land markets. And industry that is more focused on development and building places of enduring value instead of land banking and speculation.

That is the pathway to more affordable housing, and a systemic fix of the crisis that has caused so much hardship, and sucked so much of our national wealth into residential property instead of the productive economy. … read more via hyperlink above …
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April 13, 2019 7:46am

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