General Debate 11 May 2019

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Pete George

The Prime Minister has set up a semi-secretive digital and media expert group to advise on regulating social media. It took an OIA request by @MatthewHootonNZ to disclose the identity of members of the group.

– Jordan Carter, Chief Executive, Internet NZ
– Nat Torkington, technologist
– Miriyana Alexander, Premium Content Editor, NZME
– Rick Shera, Internet and Digital Business Law Partner, Lowndes Jordan
– Michael Wallmansberger, cybersecurity professional, independent director; Chair of the CERT NZ Establishment Advisory Board
– Victoria Maclennan, Managing Director, MD OptimalBI Ltd; Chair of the Digital Economy and Digital Inclusion Ministerial Advisory Group; Co-Chair, NZRise
– John Wesley-Smith, GL Regulatory Affairs, Spark
– Lizzie Marvelly, NZ Herald columnist, Villainesse.com co-founder and editor

But the objectives remain secret ‘in the public interest’.

https://yournz.org/2019/05/11/digital-and-media-expert-group-advising-on-social-media-regulation-revealed/
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May 11, 2019 8:04am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Peter George
  The ‘objectives’ will be to reduce and restrict any opinions that conflict with a particular Leftist/Statist narrative.
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:09am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Both the State and Leftists demand compliance with their narratives. They are made for each other.
    
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    May 11, 2019 8:15am
    - Jack5
      
      Lizzie Marvelly and Miriyana Alexander of the Hooerald an expert group? What’s Lizzie there for, to warble the national anthem in Maori?
      
      The techies will explain to Lizzie and tabloid journo Alexander that the only way for little NZ to control social media is an internet wall like China’s. Or Jacinderella could convince Trump to rein in social media. Fat chance.
      
      The Leftists are using the Christchurch massacre as an excuse to make war on freedom of speech.
      
      A good post by Pete George.
      
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      May 11, 2019 9:29am
      - redeye
        
        How much are they being paid?
        Marvelly and Ardern are mates.
        Marvelly was included as a reward for all the fawning Jacinda articles she has written. A reward in the form of a tax payer funded salary.
        
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        May 11, 2019 12:42pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  So Lizzie Marvelly is now “officially” in the Prime Minister’s inner circle; I didn’t see that coming [sarc alert ends]
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:16am
  - Ultima
    
    Lizzie is there for her singing talent to entertain the group in between coffee breaks?
    
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    May 11, 2019 8:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Talent is in the eye/ear of the beholder.
      
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      May 11, 2019 8:35am
      - Tall Man
        
        Arse…….
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:16pm
    - Jules99
      
      I’m hoping she’s there to make the coffee. Sadly I think she actually have some input.
      
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      May 11, 2019 8:53am
    - kevn
      
      @Ultima…. Well maybe, she is a distant relation to Sir Howard Morrison.
      
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      May 11, 2019 10:24am
  - Yvette
    
    Why Lizzie Marvelly? And if her online drivel is not shutdown, are we all still safe?
    
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    May 11, 2019 11:45am
- All_on_Red
  
  Another working Group for snouts in the trough
  Interesting comment on Twitter from Hamish Price on the members
  “The PM’s top secret taxpayer-funded Social Media advisory group giving her talking points for Paris includes a Labour candidate, the PM’s campaign manager, her own social media company, and Lizzie Marvelly! “
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    ‘Top secret’ huh? Even Pete George only though it was ‘secret’. Maybe it’s even more sinister than we first though.
    
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    May 11, 2019 8:55am
  - kowtow
    
    AOR
    
    For the uninitiated , me included, could you tell us which is the Labour candidate, which is the campaign manager and who owns a social media co.
    
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    May 11, 2019 8:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Jordan Carter is a former Labour candidate, for Christchurch Central, I think.
      
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      May 11, 2019 9:37am
  - MrTips
    
    If I’m not mistaken, Vic McLennans OptimalBI do a bit of work for govt. Have for a while.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:31am
- The Feed
  
  I guess a group always needs someone to get the coffees in.
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:51am
- kevn
  
  @Pete… Panel including the ‘Premium Content’ editor… what a laugh.
  No need to mock the lizzie inclusion. We all think alike.
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:51am
- Justitia
  
  I find the secrecy around this group and its objectives very disturbing indeed. The membership certainly does not inspire confidence. Wake up NZ, your freedoms are being stolen from you.
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:54am
- Sacha
  
  Lizzie Marvelly is a ‘media expert’? If so, it doesn’t inspire confidence in the other members of the group –
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:23am
- John Warren
  
  Lizzy fucking Marvelly?
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:25am
  - Jack5
    
    John, after announcing she was bisexual, Marvelly announced she was engaged to a lady called Lisa. ?‍❤️‍?
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2019/04/we-said-yes-lizzie-marvelly-engaged-almost-one-year-after-coming-out-as-bisexual.html
    
    Will Marvelly and the rest of the team be off to Paris with Jacinderella for her conference on social media?
    
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    May 11, 2019 11:59am
- Straight arrow
  
  Was searching for a more information on Google for overseas commentary on an issue that our local media has restricted. I was not looking for objectionable material. This was on bottom of page 2 of search results:
  
  “In response to a legal request submitted to Google, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read more about the request at LumenDatabase.org.”
  Going to Lumen:
  Local Law Complaint to Google. Sender [i.e. who requested the delisting]: REDACTED. Country: NZ
  Notice Type: Other. Complaint: [blank]. Problematic URLs: [I have redacted this myself]
  Jurisdictions: NZ. Original Documents: [blank]
  
  No idea if it was an official agency who requested this or what is bad about the site.
  If you searched on GuckDuckGo the result was second item.
  
  Was this a test run? Is this open and transparent government? If a site is “objectionable” (officially classed by Chief Censor) then agree as would hamper inadvertently breaking the law, but at least we should know why and who placed the notice.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:53pm
  - Tall Man
    
    https://www.mamamia.com.au/brenton-tarrant/
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:13pm
- RRM
  
  Lizzie “All men are rapists” Marvelly?
  
  Jesus Christ…
  
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  May 12, 2019 7:24pm
Happychappy

Has NZ First betrayed farmers and has Labour and the Greens found a way to to make sure they are not decision maker at the next Election.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112518130/nz-first-may-be-most-hurt-by-
widening-ruralurban-divide-over-zero-carbon-bill
I would be over the moon if the Messiah is buried at the next Election as then Jacinda would find it difficult to have to surveil the economy turned to shit.
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May 11, 2019 8:08am
Yvette

Driver was high on synthetic cannabis in crash that killed seven.
The sole survivor of a horror crash near Waverley that killed seven people admits she and her partner, who was driving, were high on synthetic cannabis.
“We need drug impaired drivers off the roads. Accidents caused by drugs now exceed those caused by drink driving.” – RNZ

“There will be limited spaces where people can consume, those are private premises and licensed premises.” – Green Party MP Chloe Swarbrick, who has worked on the Cabinet paper with Little

So there must be travel between some venues where cannabis is consumed.
If “Accidents caused by drugs now exceed those caused by drink driving”, will that number increase if cannabis is legalised?

So as part of the cannabis referendum education programme, will the Electoral Commission tell us how Government – although Ardern insists Government does not have a policy on the cannabis referendum – will propose handling the travel issue of cannabis impaired persons?
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May 11, 2019 8:12am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Meanwhile, double-down on those exceeding 5 km/h on expressways and motorways.
  There, that will do the trick!
  
  //
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:16am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Although I am loathe to criticise a worker at a fast food joint, are “wasted” drivers coming through the drive-through at Hawera McDonalds such a common occurrence that a call to the Police wasn’t considered?
  
  In fact both adult occupants of the car were wasted, putting their eight year old and a baby at risk, and ultimately killing them. Yet still, Trevor Mallard wouldn’t even put Nick Smith’s request for leave on Wednesday to introduce a Bill on roadside drug testing. Then on Thursday, he allowed Kaikoura MP Stuart Smith to seek leave, but voted it down himself.
  
  Wise up Mr Mallard. How many more people will die on our roads, killed by drug-addled drivers, while you and your Labour, Green and NZF colleagues go soft on drugs?
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    How many more dead babies do you wish to lay at the feet of Mallard?
    Are you a particularly proud shroud-waver?
    
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    May 11, 2019 8:57am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Mallard has twice blocked attempts to have a Bill enabling roadside drug testing to the Order Paper. One each occasion, the MP seeking leave did not want the Bill read immediately, but properly, they wanted it to be #1 on the Order Paper on the next Members’ Day.
      
      No one is responsible for the deaths that have already occurred apart from those who made the choice to drive while stoned, but Parliament as a whole needs to acknowledge that drug driving is a real problem, and that innocent people are dying as a result. As in the case of drink driving, saliva testing is not of evidential strength, but it gives officers cause to detain a suspected drugged driver for further testing which CAN then be used as evidence.
      
      This government however seems more focused, this week especially, on liberalising drug laws. I hope the evidence given at the inquest in Whanganui yesterday is a wake-up call .
      
      As a post-script, I’m not a “shroud-waver” as you so eloquently put it. I do however know some of the families involved in the Waverley crash, and I know the devastation they have suffered as a result of a driver stoned out of his brain on both synthetics and loose-leaf cannabis.
      
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      May 11, 2019 9:23am
    - Prince
      
      It’s difficult not to question Mallard’s motives when he refuses to allow a motion to Parliament that allows discussion of a bill to stop these deaths.
      
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      May 11, 2019 9:58am
    - Tall Man
      
      “How many more dead babies do you wish to lay at the feet of Mallard?”
      
      What a ridiculous comment. You’ve exceeded even your own moronic low.
      
      The answer is, as many that die from now on maybe that could have been saved by roadside drug testing.
      
      I can see why you are a public servant, we in private enterprise require employees with a few more smarts than a sycophantic labour supporter seems to exhibit.
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:22pm
  - Alien
    
    It was put to the vote Thursday and refused before mallard even finished asking, so now the blame for it not being allowed is on labour
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:04am
    - Alien
      
      No let me correct, not to a vote. A point of order was made on Thursday, mallard put it to the house, labour objected before mallard finished asking
      
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      May 11, 2019 9:29am
      - Blackbob
        
        Mallard was the one who disallowed it so yes I guess you could say it was “Labour objected before Mallard finished speaking”…
        
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        May 11, 2019 10:11am
      - Alien
        
        Nope, he grants leave and labour object while he is granting it. This is when Alister Scott put forward the bill
        
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        May 11, 2019 10:44am
  - waikatogirl
    
    I thought that too. Surely the McD’s drive through staff could have ‘delayed’ the driver’s order while the police were notified. Sorry for the delay sir, your fries are just being cooked. Won’t be more than a few minutes…
    
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    May 11, 2019 12:57pm
- kowtow
  
  Will one be allowed to smoke cannabis inside one of these licensed premises or will the patrons be forced to smoke outside , as per the current rules for tobacco consumption , and if outside then the Greens are potentially subjecting the public to noxious fumes ……oh the dilemmas of being woke these days.
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:30am
  - Nermal
    
    I’d be extremely annoyed if I had to breathe in cannabis fumes at a restaurant
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:55am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Would you prefer synthetic cannabis ( which seems to be a euphemism for any chemical combination the dealer wants to supply.)
      
      Cannabis plants have many varietals with vastly different properties. Some are harmless and others have very highTHC concentrations–even alleged to be from genetic modification. Which variety is the referendum going to deal with?
      
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      May 11, 2019 12:48pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Neither.
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:23pm
- BullyHayes
  
  these sorts of incidents make a bloody compelling reason to buy a landcruiser 200
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:50am
  - John Warren
    
    I was thinking of a tractor unit. The occupants of those always seem to come out alive, no matter what smashes into them. I’d have a bit of trouble getting it into the garage though.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:30am
    - Tall Man
      
      https://ktmdoorcontrol.com/agricultural-photo-gallery/
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:26pm
- Micky
  
  I believe synthetic cannabis has been made a class A drug by the COL with stronger sentences.
  
  This is the right course of action to take against this vile drug.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:15am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    There is a government Bill coming, but it has not been debated yet. In the meantime, all the government parties will vote against Simeon Brown’s Bill to increase sentences for those who sell or distribute synthetic drugs.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:34am
- Ruahine
  
  I am sure that if these synthetic cannabis smokers were ‘allowed’ to have proper cannabis this ‘accident’ would have not happened. Would it not Chloe?.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:30am
- artemisia
  
  People will have to stay at the licensed premises 24/7 or find a sober driver. For sure there will be official testers waiting outside.
  
  Has anyone done the maths on the new cost of a tinnie, taking into account tax, premises, wages etc. I would say double. In which case the current market will thrive if the police continue to turn a blind eye to personal use. Dealers may get more attention, just like now – let’s face it, really really hard to find a tinnie these days LOL.
  
  Remember the opium dens of old? For the well off lots of sofas for reclining and servants to meet every need. For the no longer so well off, not so much.
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:28am
- MCos
  
  The number of road deaths caused by drivers effected by drugs was a few more in 2017 than those caused by drivers over the alcohol limit.
  Because drug use is illegal there is no legal limit; so the comparison should be with drivers who have consumed any measurable amount of alcohol.
  The drugs that impair the drivers include more than just marijuana, which is the only one the referendum is concerned with.
  
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  May 11, 2019 12:44pm
  - Tall Man
    
    What a really stupid and ignorant comment.
    
    “More people died on New Zealand’s roads last year after collisions involving drug-drivers than drink-drivers, new research has shown.”
    
    No mention of level and my assumption was that it was based on post-mortem blood tests but I am happy to be proven wrong. I know for a fact that some drunk drivers seriously injured can have their blood alcohol level assessed in the hospital but there are issues with gaining a conviction based on that evidence. Again, one of our more legally competent commenters may have a more accurate explanation.
    
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    May 11, 2019 1:33pm
    - MCos
      
      Here is one reference that proves you wrong.
      There are others if you want to have a look before you make a fool of yourself again.
      https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.rnz.co.nz/article/335a9d88-2b22-4170-9a8d-436470791c7c
      
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      May 12, 2019 12:30am
Doubledimp

With the two announcements in the last week by the COL, it looks like the next election will be decided by Womans Day readers and Veg-heads. Perhaps to counter this, National could arrange a “recurrence” of Nikki Kaye’s breast cancer, and offer free meals for beneficiaries on dole day after 10pm at the local takeaway (you could even start a shuttle service to take people down there, call it some maori name like “kai-me-hi” or something like that)?
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May 11, 2019 8:31am
- Jules99
  
  I think they should take a leaf out of Trump’s book. What are the things that most real people care about? Jobs, healthcare and safety. There’s isn’t one identity group that doesn’t value those. In other words, don’t slice up the world in terms of demographic identity – have policies that have broad appeal. National got more votes last time around – you don’t have to make huge changes to get even more.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:11am
Tony Stuart

Further to Yvette’s comment above, here are the figures from the AA with regard to drug and alcohol affected drivers involved in fatal road crashes in 2017

More road deaths in 2017 involved drivers with drugs in their system than over the alcohol limit, figures obtained by the AA reveal.

The table below shows the number of crash deaths where a driver subsequently tested positive for some form of potentially impairing drug and compares those numbers to crash deaths involving a drunk driver. Some drivers will have tested positive for both drugs and alcohol.

“These figures confirm how big a problem drugged driving is on our roads and why we have to give Police saliva-based testing devices to catch impaired drivers,” says AA road safety spokesperson Dylan Thomsen.

“We now have more crash deaths where people test positive for a drug than alcohol – it’s time to act.”

The AA is reiterating its Election Call from last year for the Government to give Police more tools to test and catch dangerous drugged drivers on our roads.

Excluding alcohol, the two most commonly detected individual drugs were cannabis and P. A particularly worrying trend is that the cases of P being detected has shot up in recent years. A range of other drugs and medications that impair driving also feature in the results.

While the numbers look like drugged driving has suddenly skyrocketed, the AA believes the big jump is likely down to more thorough testing being done following crashes.

“The number of drivers found to have drugs in their system is no surprise to the AA,” says Dylan.

“The AA has called drugged driving a silent killer on our roads for years and these latest figures confirm how prevalent drugs are in fatal crashes.

“No one wants someone who is high driving towards their family at 100kmh but right now the chances of being caught drugged driving is tiny. We have to change that.

“95% of AA Members in our surveys support introducing saliva-based drug testing.”

https://www.aa.co.nz/about/newsroom/media-releases/safety/alarming-increase-in-drugged-driving-deaths/

The 2017 figures had 79 drivers involved in fatal accidents testing positive to drugs, compared with 70 alcohol-affected drivers.

You only have to watch the Australian reality programme Booze Patrol to know that saliva-based testing is being carried out effectively across the ditch. So why the reluctance from the parties of the Left to even consider such a move?

It wouldn’t be because the Greens believe drugs are a “health issue”, and those who use recreational drugs shouldn’t be punished, would it?
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May 11, 2019 8:33am
- Micky
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  16% of the population smoke weed so this will of course feature in the stats. Coffee would also feature highly which ‘could’ mean there is a correlation between coffee and speeding.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:09am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    So 16% of the population smoke weed and produce more fatal accidents than the 85% or so who drink alcohol. So what is the bigger problem?
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:24am
    - Micky
      
      Your ability to subjectively analyse data.
      
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      May 11, 2019 12:13pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Well there’s definitely a lack of ability there micky but I think it is sheeted straight home to you. Maybe have the tokes a bit later in the day…. Just trying to help.
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:40pm
      - Micky
        
        Thanks Tall Man… I’ll try to be more articulate in what I am trying to say –
        
        Cannabis is detectable for up to 30 days – so the data proves nothing unless they can provide more specific details i.e. how many of the 79 drivers tested positive for ‘cannabis’ (not other drugs and medications). And of those who tested positive for cannabis – what were the THC levels at the time of the accident?
        
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        May 11, 2019 2:33pm
      - Tall Man
        
        micky you’re struggling again.
        
        The level of alcohol was not specified either so it could be as low as a dose of cough medicine.
        
        Grow up and accept the facts, doped drivers are killing themselves an others. Do you really want to increase those accidents or reduce them?
        
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        May 11, 2019 10:25pm
      - Micky
        
        Tall Man you speak about facts, yet the data provided has no specific details about what those drugs were. Unless you can supply those details unfortunately your argument lacks something us grown ups call ‘credible evidence’.
        
        Your clan will need to provide that evidence if you wish to have some sort of logical input into the public debate.
        
        Down votes in an echo chamber are not going to cut it (just trying to help).
        
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        May 12, 2019 6:26am
  - kevn
    
    @Micky… Well, there is a whole bunch of votes right there. Great (not) political strategy?
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:28am
    - Micky
      
      @kevn if this blog was actually representative of the population you might have some kind of point. It is more of an echo chamber for conservative Christians.
      
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      May 11, 2019 12:19pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        and if dope smokers were representative of the general population instead of 16% you would have a point. Instead it is just your head that is an echo chamber.
        
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        May 11, 2019 12:44pm
      - Micky
        
        @Bananasucker Currently 52% are in favor vs 37% against (37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% 37% echo echo echo bananasucker bananasucker bananasucker)
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12229060
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:06pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        A previous poll 6 months ago showed 60% why are you losing support? People suddenly finding god and becoming conservative or is it because your behavior is on display?
        
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        May 11, 2019 3:16pm
- septic skeptic
  
  IMO it’s because the prospect of softening drug laws is central to the watermelons retaining a presence in the next parliament. They want the carrot of drug law reform to motivate their voters to get out and vote. Hopefully vote green at the same time as they tick the referenda.
  Of course what actually happens once the referenda goes to the next parliament may be very different to what was voted on.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:20am
  - Piniwi
    
    But ss one of their own favored strategies of muddying issues they want to avoid even addressing is now working against them by their own actions. Likewise blocking attempts for the introduction of the private Members for roadside drug testing as it indicates an unwillingness to acknowledge it’s increasing impact on the ballooning road toll. Forces well beyond their control are working against them.
    The bigger task for this lazy mob is to draw up legislation to (A) let the public know what they are voting for if they tick Yes to legalize drugs and (B) in the absence of sound legislation intentions how they can call the referendum binding? Or are they again going to completely ignore established Parliamentary legislative process with another Captains Call? We wonder what the outcome might be if they get a resounding No vote along with a deflated party vote of peoples rejection of feelz?
    
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    May 11, 2019 2:28pm
- artemisia
  
  Plus no reason to think opioid addiction will not increase here.
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:38am
Rocky Jnr

Isn’t it our Associate Minister of Transport (JAG) (who blamed the last govt for the “high” road toll and who wants to get the road toll down to zero) who is so opposed to giving Police random roadside drug testing powers. How does that stupid woman sleep at night?
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May 11, 2019 8:34am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Maybe that’s the problem; her baby is keeping her awake all night, and she’s NOT thinking clearly because of sleep deprivation. Most of us who are parents can identify with that 😀
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:40am
- Wayne
  
  JAG on current roadside drug testing….”We already have an extremely effective impairment test which is over 90 percent effective usually backed up by 100 percent accurate blood tests,” Ms Genter said.”
  
  For various reasons, this statement strongly suggests that the minister doesn’t understand basic statistical concepts and that current testing protocols are woefully inaccurate.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:30am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
One of the most recent books about the US President is extremely important because it tells us about his real character both on and off the fairway,

“ Have you ever won a tournament you never competed in? Have you ever stolen the ball from an opponent to gain a competitive advantage?

If the answer to either or both of those questions is no, then you’re not cheating at the highest level. Which is to say, you’re not cheating like President Donald Trump.

In a new book, Commander in Cheat, sportswriter Rick Reilly explores Trump’s complicated relationship with the game of golf, and shows the near-heroic efforts he makes to lie about his scores, sabotage his opponents, and generally defraud the sport….”

Donald Trump

Golf match? I’ve won 18 Club Championships including this weekend.
@mcuban
swings like a little girl with no power or talent. Mark’s a loser

12:07 AM · Mar 20, 2013 · Twitter for Android

How golf explains Trump. Seriously.
“This guy cheats like a mafia accountant.

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/10/18524172/donald-trump-commander-in-cheat-rick-reilly

We learn that he’s not adverse to picking up his golf balls going astray on the fairway, lying in a sand bunker etc, small bush etc Anything to give President Trump an unfair competitive advantage

Imagine for a moment If the former President Obama and PM John Keys were invited by the POTUS for a round. Of course, it would never happen because who would want to play with such an obvious cheat. It would be pointless not least making Trump the laughing stock of the US let alone the world. After all, he is not described as the President of 1000 lies for nothing

The tragic irony of this there enough of his supporters here on KB and elsewhere who are totally blind to this kind of perfidy and cheating on his part. . .

Just in case Vox is dismissed as Commie or Leftie etc similarly well covered in the NY Post,

“Trump is the world’s worst cheat at golf, players and celebs say”

https://nypost.com/2019/03/30/trump-is-the-worlds-worst-cheat-at-golf-players-and-celebs-say/
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May 11, 2019 8:37am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Who is John Keys stephie?
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:44am
  - calendar girl
    
    John Key was this country’s Prime Minister for eight years, yet poor stephieboy still couldn’t get to the point of memorising the PM’s surname, “Key”.
    
    That’s a desperately sad shortcoming for a person who purports to engage in a public debating forum.
    
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    May 11, 2019 3:49pm
- Inandout
  
  Stephie, the NYPost is so anti Trump as to be an official organ for the Democratic Party. The collusion crap has gone, the (illegally obtained) tax records go back many decades so as to be useless, and we now have golf. The machinery is slowly moving toward the Obama puppets in the FBI, and the paid for attempt to spy on Trump is going to come back with a vengeance. Get out of the bubble before it pops.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:02am
  - John Warren
    
    I thought the Washington Post was the official Democrat organ.
    
    In other news it’s lovely to see Stephanie back from Coventry.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:35am
    - Tall Man
      
      “In other news it’s lovely to see Stephanie back from Coventry.”
      
      Not really, any of them……
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:43pm
      - John Warren
        
        /sarc, Tall Man, but I’m sure you knew that.
        
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        May 11, 2019 5:12pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout, the NY Post like Fox is owned by Murdoch!
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:30am
    - BrownSnake
      
      Are you running Goats on Mount Roskill yet
      or are you like most Aucklanders a true lover of Sheep
      
      I though it would be more culturally sensitive
      that you chase a few goats for a change?
      
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      May 11, 2019 10:59pm
- Alien
  
  Completely agree, no one would want to play with Obama, dirty and cheats, and even breaks the law in the lead up to an election
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:07am
  - stephieboy
    
    Alien, breaks what laws?
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:31am
    - toby1845
      
      OOOHH, OOOHHHH, MISS!!!!! PICK ME!!!!!
      
      For a start, Obama broke the law by ordering DoJ operatives to spy on an opposition party’s Presidential candidate and his family in the lead-up to an election campaign.
      
      He also presided over the sale of a huge chunk of the US’s uranium reserves to Russia, in return for a substantial Russian donation to the Democratic nominee’s campaign fund.
      
      And there will be more, as Barr’s pending investigation will reveal.
      
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      May 11, 2019 12:41pm
      - Alien
        
        Yes but that doesn’t really exist to Obama/Clinton fans, they still believe the Clinton invented Russian interference is real. Well, it was real, it’s just it wasn’t the trump campaign that it involved.
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:04pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “OOOHH, OOOHHHH, MISS!!!!! PICK ME!!!!!”
        
        Toby, there’s something slightly disturbing about they way those words roll of your tongue….. maybe we could call it a “macron”.
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:47pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Oh steffy girl, once again, mouth open, foot well poised and brain well asleep. You need to be awake before you touch that keyboard.
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:46pm
- Jules99
  
  LOL, I don’t pay a lot of attention to what sports stars and celebs say – jeeze, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel aren’t you?
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:16am
  - stephieboy
    
    Jules99 , why does Trump play with them then?
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:32am
- yossarian
  
  “It’s not how you play the game, it’s whether you win or lose.”
  
  “So me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.”
  
  Both quotes from Vince Lombardi
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who coached football, a game that requires a referee. Golf has no referee, and there are multiple opportunities to cheat. It is in many ways a test of personal integrity. No surprise that Trump fails that test.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:41am
    - Tall Man
      
      “Golf has no referee”
      
      Ahh mikey, the sweet smell of ignorance permeates from your post….again.
      
      https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2019-03-07/2019-03-07_soeren_friemel_named_new_us_open_tournament_referee.html
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:50pm
- kevn
  
  @septic… You need to re-focus.
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:29am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  Who is this John Keys you refer to all the time Steph is he a PGA pro or something?
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:41pm
Tony Stuart

Crusaders 45, Bulls 13.

At Pretoria. At 6000 feet above sea level. Those Crusaders are pretty damned impressive.
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May 11, 2019 8:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Who on Earth would want to work for Oranga Tamariki?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388970/children-s-comissioner-says-oranga-tamariki-approach-must-change

Staff are going to be condemned if they uplift vulnerable children from violent homes and dammed if they leave them.

Great for whanau and Iwi to be consulted… but it’s a bit late in the day when a baby’s/child’s welfare hangs in the balance.
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May 11, 2019 8:51am
- Nukuleka
  
  The Children’s Commissioner Andrew Becroft was on RNZ this morning wittering on about the effects of ‘colonialism’ and referencing ‘partnership’-predictably the terms that are introduced into discussions of parental neglect to deflect from the more significant terms, ‘responsibility and ‘love’ when it comes to parenting and bringing children into the world.
  
  Yes, indeed, Oranga Tamariki, damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:11am
  - John Warren
    
    Becroft is another self-loathing white apologist for the deficiencies of Maori culture and society.
    
    He and his ilk need to wake up to themselves.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:37am
    - Jack5
      
      You may be interested in a Stuff article today, about the Maori/Land Wars. An extract (the first speaker is the revisionist historian Vincent O’Malley):
      
      “”What a street is called seems like a small thing but it speaks to our willingness to engage with our history in a meaningful way. Symbolism is important. Would it really hurt anybody if, say, Von Tempsky St [in Hamilton] became Rewi Maniapoto Rd or whatever?”
      
      “Another historian, Malcolm Mulholland, has suggested creating local holidays that reflect such histories. O’Malley thinks that rather than the provincial holidays that mean little, Taranaki Anniversary Day could evolve into Parihaka Day, for example.”
      
      Leftists everywhere share traits.
      
      The NZ revisionism would parallel the renaming by the Soviets: St Petersburg to Petrograd to Leningrad (and now back to the original). After more than 300 years as Tsaritsyn that city’s name was changed to Stalingrad (it’s now Volgograd).
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112546382/national-portrait-vincent-omalley-historian-of-the-new-zealand-wars
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:24pm
      - John Warren
        
        O’Malley is another craven example of those same self-loathing white apologists. He would trample all over the residents of Von Tempsky Street in an effort to assuage his imagined multi-generational post-colonial guilt syndrome. The complete eradication of any European perspective from the record is the aim of these brown-washing revisionists.
        
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        May 11, 2019 5:27pm
  - Tall Man
    
    They may be “damned” but the child may well be dead.
    
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    May 11, 2019 1:54pm
- Micky
  
  I don’t believe a baby should be ripped away from its mother 5 minutes after being born – no matter what her circumstances are.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:25am
  - Alien
    
    right, so I live next door to a person who had their baby removed after birth, she’s had all her children removed, is abusive, and her partner well his brother spread rumours about what he’s like with children. Just because you can get pregnant and have a child doesn’t make you a parent, a mother, or a father. Certain people that push out a child for the safety of that child should never be allowed near those that created them.
    
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    May 11, 2019 9:56am
    - Micky
      
      I didn’t say they should in all cases be able to take the baby home with them (big difference).
      
      The bond created during the 9 month pregnancy should not be immediately severed. In some cases the mother does not even get to hold her child. It’s disgusting. We are not dealing with livestock here fella.
      
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      May 11, 2019 10:53am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Yes we are, in some cases.
        
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        May 11, 2019 12:34pm
      - toby1845
        
        “We are not dealing with livestock here…”
        
        Actually, we are. Some of these ‘parents’ are simply feral scum. If they were dogs, they would be put down.
        
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        May 11, 2019 12:48pm
      - Alien
        
        You are right, we aren’t dealing with livestock because as a farmer would tell you live stock are far more intelligent than some of these people
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:02pm
      - Micky
        
        The baby suffers short term and long term when Oranga Tamariki act like Orangutans:
        
        http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/known-consequences-of-separating-mother-and-child-at-birth-implications-for-further-study/
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:26pm
      - John Warren
        
        I don’t think any bond is created, in some of these cases. The mothers are already braindead.
        
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        May 11, 2019 1:42pm
- Nostradamus
  
  I read Maggy’s link. Children’s Commissioner Andrew Beecroft is quoted as saying:
  
  “For decades the enduring legacy of colonisation together with contemporary systemic racism has long affected decisions made by child welfare services, there’s no getting away from that, it’s a hard message for New Zealand, but it’s one we can’t avoid and we’ve got to confront”.
  
  I wonder if Mr Beecroft agrees that there’s another hard message for New Zealand that we can’t avoid and we’ve got to confront:
  – Delcelia Witika (2) beaten to death by her parents in 1991.
  – Mereana Edmonds (6) killed by her mother in 1991.
  – James Whakaruru (5) killed by his step-father in 1999.
  – Tangaroa Matui (3) killed by his step-father in 2000.
  – Hinewaoriki “Lillybing” Karaitiana-Matiaha (2) genitally mutilated by a family member and killed by her aunts in 2000.
  – Pirimai Simmonds (17 months) killed by his father in 2001.
  – And many other cases like Nia Glassie and the Kahui twins.
  
  Child welfare service providers have a difficult job to do. The Children’s Commissioner should be backing them when they make reasonable and well-considered decisions in the interest of children (and, yes, not all decisions will turn out to be correct ones) – not hiding behind sweeping statements like “enduring legacy of colonisation” and “contemporary systemic racism”.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:47am
  - jedmo
    
    Can never forget the Delcelia Witika story, (possibly to do with that being when my children were a similar age), impossible for her not to cry, but she’d learnt to shed tears without making a sound, in order to avoid more abuse from her parents.
    
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    May 11, 2019 11:47am
  - John Warren
    
    What do all these cases have in common? The names give you the clue.
    
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    May 11, 2019 1:43pm
- Straight arrow
  
  Agree. Rather an institution than some of the alternatives. Least bad of appalling situations.
  
  Not just commissioner:
  “The racist and classist practice of uplifting children of the poor should be alarming our politicians, writes University of Auckland lecturer and former social worker Dr Ian Hyslop”
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@ideasroom/2019/05/10/578806/racist-uplift-practice-cause-for-alarm
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:17am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Is “uplifting children of the poor” disadvantageous to the children concerned?
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:41am
kevn

@ Maggy…. It must be immensely frustrating for the OTama social workers seeing the damage to children.
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May 11, 2019 8:54am
mikenmildagain

It’s a great day for the Catholics. Multiple saints to remember.
I can’t decide whether to celebrate Sant’Antimo, thrown into the Tiber with a stone around his neck, miraculously rescued by an angel, but then recaptured and beheaded, or Saint Mamertus, who introduced litanies for intercession against earthquakes and other disasters.
Whose your favourite miracle worker?
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May 11, 2019 9:06am
- RalphT
  
  St Jacinda of Morrinsville, of course, for her miracle of freeing the people of New Zealand from nine years of oppression and leading them into a world free of the evils of right wing thought, the exploitation of natural resources and farting cows.
  (Obviously sarc)
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I don’t think even Mormons deify their heroes, although they do baptised their deceased ancestors unlucky enough not to be born into the correct sect, don’t they?
    But I think it’s only the Catholics among the Christian sects who maintain the polytheistic practice of saint worship.
    
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    May 11, 2019 11:27am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      <But I think it’s only the Catholics among the Christian sects who maintain the ~~polytheistic~~ practice of saint worship.
      
      About 260 Million other Christians also practise veneration & believe in the intercession of saints.
      
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      May 11, 2019 1:13pm
      - waikatogirl
        
        The Greeks had their “Gods” for all seasons and reasons.
        
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        May 11, 2019 2:01pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Are you sure?
      
      https://www.quora.com/Is-Joseph-Smith-considered-God-like-in-Mormonism
      
      “So IF Joseph Smith is a strong God candidate, and IF his “calling and election was made sure” (as the LDS believe it was) and if he was ordained to be the King of the Kingdom of God on Earth (as history says he was), then an honest Latterday-Saint would probably have to admit that Joseph is indeed “God-like”. “
      
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      May 11, 2019 2:18pm
    - MrTips
      
      Maggy is on to it. We Catholics don’t worship saints, OR Mary. We venerate them – hyperdulia in Mary’s case as that is completely appropriate – and ask for their intercession.
      
      This world needs it right now, more than for a long time.
      
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      May 11, 2019 3:18pm
alloytoo

all of this and Jacinda still doesn’t understand GDP
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May 11, 2019 9:08am
- simpleton1
  
  GDP needs to be drilled down into per capita, and to have that increased.
  
  Ethiopia’s GDP leads the world, as it population rocketed from 34 million to over 94 million. Per capita it is still very close to the the start in 1985.
  
  The UN migration Pact, aims to spread all that GDP growth to other countries.
  Ardern and many like her, believe this is the way to increase NZ’s GDP. as they hear of the El Dorado that will be found in many different cuisines, diversity, with a multi cultural costumes, dances, festivals, translators etc..
  
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  May 11, 2019 12:50pm
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Meatheads of Dunedin
No. 2: The “S.G.C.”

Members of a “secret society” sculled glasses of wine after they were ejected from a Dunedin restaurant, then annoyed patrons at another eatery nearby. The group hit headlines earlier this week after patrons complained of their drunken behaviour at India Garden in central Dunedin last Sunday. The men, described as highly intoxicated, were reportedly kicked out of nearby restaurant The Asian before going to the Indian restaurant. …..

The men consumed multiple glasses of wine each, before concerned patrons told management. ….

“I would like to tell them that this kind of behaviour is not on, and it totally ruined my date night.”

She tried to tell the group the same message while leaving the restaurant on Sunday, but said she was told to “f… off”.

A manager at the restaurant said the party were not intoxicated, but the diner claimed one of the men appeared so drunk he could not walk unaided.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112621278/secret-society-booted-out-of-restaurant-before-annoying-patrons-at-second-eatery

Meatheads of Dunedin is compiled to highlight some of the shit going down in the “Edinburgh of the South.” It is compiled by Serena Sopwith-Fotherington, for Daisycutter Sports Inc.

No. 1 Matthew James Varcoe
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May 11, 2019 9:19am
- kowtow
  
  It’s great that our fourth estate , so brave and fearless in holding power to account, have the time , resources and inclination to run such important and ground breaking stories as ” Students Get Drunk and Obnoxious”
  
  Woodward and Bernstein would be soooooo jealous at this scoop of the decade , nay century , nay millenium.
  
  Once upon a time journalists were notorious for piss ups and there’s been no shortage of hints at , te he he , sexual shenigans ,at various Christmas , oops sorry, Winterval parties , with panties and penises pulled and plucked by the pissed and poked . As to the Press Gallery , te he he , let’s not delve too deeply there either……..
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:19am
- Morrissey
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Fourteen members of the National Party have downticked this. Of course the “S.G.C.” meatheads are Young Nats.
  
  [Mod: Any proof to support that allegation Morrissey, or is this retaliation for all the down-ticks? Just remember that free speech goes both ways; you are entitled to express your opinion, and others are free to down-tick you]
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:20am
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Fair comment, sir. I was assuming that the gentlemen of the S.G.C. were all clones of John Key and this bloke….
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111720839/aaron-gilmore-in-gun-over-spiteful-email
    
    I was wrong to suggest that, and I apologize.
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:29am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And nobody has upticked it, which is totally appropriate.
    Daisycutter Sports Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Breen Enterprises Ltd., purveyors of fuckwittery to the world.
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:33am
    - Tall Man
      
      “And nobody has upticked it”
      
      He rang around and got a couple of mates to log in and steffy girl and mikey probably leapt to his defense so it looks like he has at least one mate.
      
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      May 11, 2019 2:21pm
  - kevn
    
    morris minor back in judgemental mode…
    (uptick for mod)
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:36am
  - Nermal
    
    Thanks for the reminder. I’d missed downticking it
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:59am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Remind me Morrissey; from which party were the four staffers who stole alcohol from the Press Gallery Christmas Party a few years ago? Here’s a hint; that party sat OPPOSITE National in the Debating Chamber.
    
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/767577/Labour-staff-face-sack-for-alleged-booze-heist
    
    Odd that the Labour Party has so much trouble when alcohol is available…
    
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    May 11, 2019 2:37pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    A quick turn to the sin bin.
    
    1 0
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    May 11, 2019 8:22pm
- stinkypete
  
  When I was at Manchester University in the late 80s every single curry house was full of drunks
  If they weren’t you would assume the food was no good
  Shock headline drunk students eat curry
  
  FFS
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:33am
- MrTips
  
  I’d be pissed all the time too if I had to live in DNE
  
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  May 11, 2019 3:20pm
The Feed

Seems our Liz has been buried behind a paywall:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12229268
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May 11, 2019 9:41am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes; there is a God!
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:28am
  - The Feed
    
    I notice she managed to use “I” or “my” a total of 13 times just in the short “teaser” before payment is required.
    
    Somewhere, a mirror is going lonely for 20 minutes.
    
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    May 11, 2019 1:36pm
- John Warren
  
  Excellent. Nobody will read her peremptory prattling now.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:47pm
Alien

Wow, there actually is a limit to what Ardern will throw money at. But in reality it is just another fluff piece to make Ardern look caring and compassionate, not enough fluff in the world to make her look genuine.

“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has rejected a $5 bribe from an 11-year-old who wanted the Government to investigate dragons and psychics.
”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/11yo-tries-and-fails-to-bribe-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-into-funding-dragon-research.html
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May 11, 2019 9:42am
- Prince
  
  Another hard-hitting piece of analysis casting a critical eye overt eh Government.
  Oh well, back to rumour and ‘Bridges denies boiling babies, unable to provide evidence’ articles from Tova O’Brien
  
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  May 11, 2019 10:07am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    But we are the common people… and all that we require are bread & circuses.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:31am
Fletch

Thanks to Trumps tariffs, the U.S will be raking it in –

The US government’s revenue from tariffs is soaring. From 2010 to 2018, the federal tax revenue received from customs duties barely budged, typically hovering around a rate of $30-40 billion per year. Then, Donald Trump’s trade war kicked in.

Due to an increase in tariffs implemented in September 2018, federal revenue from custom duties ran at a $75 billion annual pace in the first quarter of 2019, according to the US Bureau of Economic Analysis. Much of the boost is due to higher tariff rates on Chinese imports, the US’s top trading partner. The US is set to raise tariff rates from 10% to 25% on Chinese goods in 5,700 product categories tomorrow, though the Trump administration may decide to stop the hike if they believe trade negotiations with China are making sufficient progress.

https://qz.com/1614032/us-tariff-revenues-are-skyrocketing/
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May 11, 2019 10:30am
- Batman
  
  A brilliant strategy, knee capping your own importers, retailers and consumers
  
  6 8
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  May 11, 2019 11:39am
  - Hacked-Off
    
    Not to count retaliation on Exporters and US Companies doing business in China. Way to go Trump.
    
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    May 11, 2019 12:42pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112645695/dame-susan-devoy-to-run-for-mayor-of-tauranga#comments

Some people just can’t get a real job, but have to get back on the Gravy Train.
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May 11, 2019 10:32am
- Johnboy
  
  The force is strong in those who once snouted in the trough and got booted out.
  However it is not as strong as those who still snout to their hearts content such as this particular piece of shit: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112633948/beware-lowflying-ducks-nats-declare-war-on-mallard
  That’s not Garner I’m talking about chaps! 🙂
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:10pm
- lofty
  
  Tenby Powell, Soldier, Businessman, Entrepreneur, Clever, Articulate, Successful in his own right, is also standing
  No contest for any right thinker, but he is up against it as a pale male.
  He is a scrapper in business and a strategical thinker, so if anybody can see Susan off it will be him.
  He will be getting my vote.
  
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  May 11, 2019 3:59pm
Captain Mainwaring

Dame Devoid wants to be mayor of Tauranga.
Jesus wept.
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May 11, 2019 10:36am
- Paulus
  
  Dame Devoid will get in as Mayor of Tauranga – she is a woman and that’s all that is needed.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:38pm
- John Warren
  
  If she succeeds, it’ll be a case of the people of Tauranga getting the (local) government they deserve, their reward for being collectively stupid enough to vote for her.
  
  Dame Devoid’s opinion on squash is probably worth having – her opinions on everything else are proven devoid of all merit.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Am I the only person who thinks it is very odd that the Government allocates $98M to an initiative that has not yet been designed/trialled/tested or even costed?
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/wh%C4%81nau-centred-pathway-break-cycle-m%C4%81ori-reoffending

Why do I have a deep suspicion that bugga-all of the $98M will flow into tangible operations that transform the life of young male Maori prisoners?
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May 11, 2019 10:38am
- artemisia
  
  Have to pay for all those reo, tikanga and kapa haka teachers somehow. The country will need ever more especially when the reo becomes compulsory in schools. Thinking ahead.
  
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  May 11, 2019 11:10am
- kevn
  
  @Maggy… Yes, it will pay lots of salaries, up-market office fit-outs, vehicles, flash phones, commercial rents in nice locations, plenty of well catered meetings. Chuck in lots of air travel and that will make a dent in the first year of well-being plans.
  Oh, yes…. something about helping some folk. Somehow.
  
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  May 11, 2019 11:13am
  - jcuk
    
    I see a problem that the people who benefit from such work are never mentioned in these crits.
    
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    May 11, 2019 12:08pm
- John Warren
  
  We all know it will flow into the pockets of any number of grasping Maori troughers.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:51pm
- kowtow
  
  Yep , ‘they’ , who ever that is, needs to sort out the continuing failing tail in the education system, broken families , lack of incentives to do well , etc
  
  There are some very broken parts of our society and throwing cash at it won’t fix it.
  
  Spend , if you must , at the top of the cliff .
  
  But then it seems the same thing’s been said since forever.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:56pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Kelvin could split the $98m between those who would be incarcerated/cared for by the “centred pathway Maori offenders unit” and it still wouldn’t make any positive difference to their lives or the way they interact in society.
  
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  May 11, 2019 2:06pm
  - sooty
    
    That means there is even less for nurses and teachers.
    
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    May 11, 2019 4:59pm
  - calendar girl
    
    My comment at 5.28pm (immediately below in this section of the thread) has now been in moderation for nearly five hours. I know that the volunteer moderators have a far-from-easy job, but this present situation is inexplicable in terms of anything that we have been told by our host.
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:15pm
- calendar girl
  
  Maggy, I’ve read three times that article to which you have linked.
  
  It tells me nothing about what practical changes are intended to be made / adopted in dealing with Maori prisoners using the proposed program, but – on the surface – simply articulates a series of high-sounding platitudes to substantiate the injection of $98m of public money:
  
  “The answer is not another programme. This is a new pathway for people in prison and their whānau to walk together. This is a system change and a culture change for our prisons – and that change starts today,” Kelvin Davis said.”
  
  If a business sought $98M from its shareholders to pursue a programme described and supposedly-justified in such whimsical terms, its Board would soon be replaced. As far as this taxpayer is concerned, Maori are free to inject $98M from their successful Treaty claims into such a venture, if that is their wish. But something much more is required if the financing of this new approach (based on a purely racial divide) is to come from ongoing general taxation receipts. And how long will $98M continue to support the intended programme, or is that sum intended solely for the start-up phase?
  
  Before the new whānau-centred pathway is approved and Government money is committed to it, will our Government generate and publish a detailed, professional project paper explaining in full to the people of New Zealand what is to be undertaken? I doubt it. Instead, it is likely to throw up a brief summary of its aspirational idea, a large budget figure to fund it, and then expect us to assume that all will be well with this huge additional-dollars taxpayer ‘investment’. Such is the disdain in which the general taxpayer is held.
  
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  May 11, 2019 5:28pm
kevn

Rumble strips and a legal cannabis referendum.
Yep, winners (not).
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May 11, 2019 10:58am
Im Right

Western society is very much at a cross roads, some may say we passed that road a few years ago. It seems the minority are now the majority and the big stick they are waving is a word called ‘racist’. It seems ANY counter point of view or indeed a valid balanced argument is a thing of the past, basically the minority just scream ‘racist’ and thats that….debate over, opinions shut down, people/groups slandered!!
Now, let’s see how long the majority put up with it, and how long the minority run with it….it’s already getting boring!
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May 11, 2019 11:15am
- MCos
  
  “Western society is very much at a cross roads”
  
  People have been saying stuff like that since Adam ate the wretched apple.
  
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  May 11, 2019 12:49pm
  - kowtow
    
    Ah but Adam didn’t live in the west. E’d ‘ave been a bit of a Mesopotamian or some such and look at the pickle they’re in now.
    
    Rather “People have been saying stuff like that since Noah said , Looks like a wee shower on the way”
    
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    May 11, 2019 1:51pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone miss reading ‘Premium Herald’ stories yet?

LoL !!!!!!
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May 11, 2019 11:18am
- John Warren
  
  Would you pay to read Lizzy Marvelly’s brainrot now she’s in behind-wall oblivion?
  
  I’m dying to know what the takeup figures are like.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:54pm
BananaLlama

Wont be long before the NZ Police shoot and kill an innocent child. Pointing a rifle at a 12 year old and they lecture us on safety. Fucking idiots should have their license revoked. All under Labours watch as well and people think they are doing a great job.

the worst thing was they pointed a rifle at my 12-year-old daughter who was picking up horse poo. They told her to put the fork down and walk towards them. She is still anxious and shaken

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/112634121/police-seize-gun-collectors-firearms-in-over-the-top-raid
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May 11, 2019 11:50am
- greybeard
  
  I suspect that there is a fair bit of truth-stretching here, in regards to the ‘pointing’ .
  
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  May 11, 2019 12:50pm
  - Komata
    
    Gb@1250
    
    As an adult who had a loaded police revolver held to the heads of both himself and a paramedic several years ago (by a young cop wanting to impress his mates), I would suggest that it occurs more often than we will ever know…
    
    The memory still lingers…
    
    (1708)
    
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    May 11, 2019 5:09pm
- artemisia
  
  The story in the media is from an angry man with a lot of firearms, who was not there when the police apparently pointed a firearm at a 12 year old.
  
  The police may have a different story. And in any case an angry man with a lot of guns should be a concern to us all.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:03pm
  - Jack5
    
    What’s your evidence for the anger, Artemisia?
    I don’t mean the anger about what he sees as the way he was raided? I mean what you seem to be suggesting: that this was an “angry man”.
    
    If the report was correct, the firearms collector seems to have been a community-minded man, and he’s obviously a family man.
    
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    May 11, 2019 2:52pm
  - greybeard
    
    I agree, hence my reply to the item above.
    
    Everyone seems very ready to believe implicitly what this firearm owner says, about the police and their attitude to his daughter.
    Me, I like to see and more than one sides of the story before making a judgement.
    
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    May 11, 2019 7:01pm
Maggie Pie

I was sitting at work last night checking my iPhone and got thinking to myself, I have no tattoos, no peircings, I dont drink, I dont smoke and I dont do drugs. That pretty much makes me one of the freakiest bitches on Twitter right?
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May 11, 2019 11:57am
- Johnboy
  
  I have no tats, I have no piercings, I dont smoke, I dont do drugs, I drink like a fish! 🙂 Perhaps we could get together Maggie…. but only if your partner said it was OK?
  ps: Threesomes are fine with me. 🙂
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:16pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    To be completly honest Jboy, i do enjoy a glass of wine with dinner out. I just dont consider that ‘drinking’ as sush. [If genuine on the other stuff, PM me before 17 June – thats the last week of duck shooting season 😉 ]
    
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    May 11, 2019 3:16pm
    - Johnboy
      
      Oh! Be still my beating heart!!!!!!
      I’ll have to check with the Doc if he’ll give me double dose of Viagra before then Maggie cause I’ve already had a couple of overdoses. If he says here’s the prescription you’re on my dear! 🙂
      
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      May 11, 2019 6:44pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Lordy, Maggie Pie,
  You could be my clone.
  (But I don’t tweet).
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:17pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    I do enjoy the odd glass of good wine, but other than that nothing. Life is sweet, and I’m too tight with hard earned money to waste too much. ?
    
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    May 11, 2019 2:09pm
    - fernglas
      
      I too enjoy the odd glass of wine, namely the 1st, 3rd, 5th,7th and 9th. I enjoy even more.
      
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      May 11, 2019 7:01pm
- Gravelroad
  
  You left out gambling, Maggie Pie.
  How do you go spending the kids’ new shoes money on the pokies?
  
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  May 11, 2019 2:16pm
Yvette

Jacinda Ardern voted Australia’s most trusted politician
Controversial One Nation leader Hanson scored 44, compared with former Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop – who rated third in political believability with a score of 52. But out in front was Jacinda Ardern who scored a believability rating of 77 out of 100

And as the Australia average IQ 98 is the same as New Zealand’s average, do the ratings Australian respondents gave Ardern for performance in six key areas – relevance, integrity, shared values, commitment, affinity and follow through – have as little relevance for her popularity in Australia, as does Kiwi voters assessment for any polls here?

Translation: Are some New Zealanders still as “away with the fairies” as Australians apparently are?
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May 11, 2019 12:11pm
- John Warren
  
  Forgive the Ockers their ignorance. They’re not confronted every day with the constant fuck-ups, piss-weak leadership, and puny grasp of anything other than how to engineer photo-ops.
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:57pm
Jack5

The police seem to have gone over the top in reaction to the Christchurch massacre, terrifying law-abiding firearms owners’ families with raids on homes.

The Christchurch Press reports today that a team of rifle pointing cops have raided the home of an arms collector, pointing a rifle at his 12-year-old daughter.

We still await the report on the police stand-off with a Russian man in the city which led to his suicide, and included the police rather brutally denying him a final conversation with his family.

There will be consequences of the police’s over-heavy reaction to the massacre. When police have shot people, including a bystander, and it is happening more frequently, typically it has been the community of legal firearms owners who have supported them in the media and other ways of influencing public opinion. The police’s current heavy-handed tactics will lead to them undergoing more public scrutiny in future.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/112634121/police-seize-gun-collectors-firearms-in-over-the-top-raid
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May 11, 2019 12:15pm
- Alien
  
  I’d love to know the police side of the story. But alas for the second guy, anyone that runs out and buys a gun that has just been used in a mass shooting should get a visit from the police with the worry of a copycat.
  
  The Russian man, we know a bit more about
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/04/troy-dubovskiy-supported-alleged-christchurch-gunman-was-a-significant-threat-police.html
  
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  May 11, 2019 12:59pm
  - Jack5
    
    “We” know about more about the Russian man?
    Not what his family are saying, Alien.
    
    They say his interest was mainly in airsoft guns – more or less sporting toys.
    
    The man had had run-ins with police previously, and was interested in Nazi paraphernalia, but one report says he was a Ukrainian. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians fought in the German Army in World War 2. This was largely a reaction to their persecution by the Soviet Communists in the 1930s, including by imposed famine. The fact that many Ukrainians saw “my enemy’s enemy as my friend” shouldn’t be surprising.
    
    Many Ukrainians, like many Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians who had been under the Soviet heel, initially at least, welcomed the German Army, and many served in German units including the SS.
    
    The Russian man in the incident was not armed with a firearm, and apparently committed suicide by knife. But why did the police, who were negotiating with him, refuse his request to sat farewell to his family?
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12216949
    
    It was reported that, immediately after the Christchurch massacre, that there was was a rush on firearms expected to be banned. Were all those folk targeted for raids?
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/christchurch-terror-attack-gun-enthusiasts-reportedly-buying-up-large-before-law-change.html
    
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    May 11, 2019 2:47pm
    - Alien
      
      I’d put more faith in what the police say than the family.
      
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      May 11, 2019 4:06pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Were all those folk targeted for raids?”
      
      When all else fails the clods will step in. Over time I think there will be quite a few more but probably only “those” that look likely…….
      
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      May 11, 2019 10:09pm
  - Tall Man
    
    FFS, we live in New Zealand not Afghanistan.
    
    Please point out the details of the numerous times a fully legally licensed gun owner in New Zealand has committed a single murder, let alone 51.
    
    Like many, you exhibit your ignorance on a daily basis.
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:06pm
- Sacha
  
  Good thing that the contents of the poo-bucket didn’t land on the gun-pointing cop, I’d say.
  I know that they are using March 15 as an excuse to beef up their terrorist control protocol, but really – a 12yo girl? We are not an Islamic outpost -yet.
  
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  May 11, 2019 7:06pm
Lee C

Maggy Pie The Herald has actually improved as an experience for me since they put up the paywall.

i am amused by how they fade out the ‘great writing’ as if it will encourage you to lay out $250 on the off-chance of reading something remotely unbiased in favour of the current Government.

I think I’d have better odds by investing $250 into buying lottery tickets.
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May 11, 2019 12:55pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Could you get the NZ Herald to create
  
  a BOG ROLL Icon
  
  So I can click every time I make the mistake
  of reading that pathetic drivel they actually
  charge people for
  
  A Bog roll a turd and a flush Icon is all that
  bad joke needs
  
  Another Gang Shooting in Dorkland
  Yawn
  
  Jesus did they not hand their guns into Jacinda
  
  What a pile of Crap
  
  Noises like this while you are reading would be good
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92nYmrxHTpc
  What did you people expect
  
  Appropriate sounds for reports from and on a backward complete shite hole
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5_FtitOaU0
  
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  May 12, 2019 12:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

So our PM is off overseas this weekend to sort out the Social Media juggernaut.

I wonder if she will achieve as much as the PM of Bhutan who spends every weekend operating as his nation’s foremost urology surgeon.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/10/i-like-to-operate-bhutans-pm-spends-weekends-as-a-surgeon
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May 11, 2019 1:27pm
- Johnboy
  
  Well she’s been taking the piss out us since Winston appointed her so anythings possible Maggy. 🙂
  
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  May 11, 2019 1:31pm
Morrissey

GROPERS
No. 72: The “Chikan”

… While crowded cars are the most common annoyance that comes with Japan’s convenient and reliable train service, the worst part of riding the rails is the chance of encountering a chikan, or train groper. Chikan take advantage of the packed conditions on trains to obscure their invasive hands, either by trying to have them blend in with all the innocently pressed together body parts on rush hour trains or simply to make it hard to determine who exactly is the one doing the offensive touching.

Japanese Twitter user @7bo8rtWwXXl8GdE says that she was the victim of multiple chikan during her teen years, but that one change dramatically reduced how often such creeps tried to cop a feel on her. Ordinarily, that’s be great news, but the change that kept chikan away also speaks to a disturbing aspect of their mentality. ….

Chikan realize that wearing a school uniform means that the girl is a minor, and it’s insane how in this country a uniform becomes an icon that makes the wearer a target for this kind of behavior. ….
https://soranews24.com/2019/04/26/japanese-woman-finds-a-depressing-way-to-prevent-train-gropers-from-targeting-her/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yP0iGVNZmw

“GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
1 George Herbert Walker Bush; 2 Bill O’Reilly; 3 Al Franken; ….. 69 Catholic Clerics; 70 Bryan Singer; 71 The Rt Dishonorable Steve Dickson.
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May 11, 2019 2:34pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Daisycutter Sports Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Breen Enterprises Ltd., purveyors of fuckwittery to the world.
  
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  May 11, 2019 3:20pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Is there a point to your record of gropers?
  
  What have you concluded about folks who grope?
  
  Do you get a cheap thrill relaying the activities of gropers to KB?
  
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  May 11, 2019 3:31pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Here’s a pointless video (in search of gropers) but with some good footage of trains in Tokyo.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm381gc-EA8
    
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    May 11, 2019 5:07pm
  - Morrissey
    
    What have you concluded about folks who grope?
    
    Have a look at the list, carefully, Maggy. What sort of person predominates?
    
    1 0
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    May 11, 2019 6:16pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Yep, he gets a wee buzz.
    
    Stunned he’s survived on this blog as he seems to commit slander on a regular basis.
    
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    May 11, 2019 10:01pm
Maggie Pie

My partner and his older brother used to live in Upper Hutt and would often catch trains into the city. His brothers nickname was ‘David cop-a-feel ‘ 😉
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May 11, 2019 4:00pm
Ross12

There is a thread on W/o about how Ardern is ruining Taranaki. It mentions the new research centre and it’s cost etc.

One of the posters put the whole issue into perspective with ” So Taranaki is getting about half of what the Maori prisoners are getting”.
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May 11, 2019 4:12pm
Happychappy

Winston saying National funding fucked the railways in NZ, this from someone that has made a habit on more suspect dealings than any other Politican in NZ. The Owen Glenn donation and the Vella Helicopter saga are two that come to mind.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112648672/deputy-pm-winston-peters-signals-budget-boost-for-railways
So Winston wants to poor money into the railway system that Labour ran down not National.
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May 11, 2019 4:48pm
Alien

Great news for the teachers, doctors etc told that the government has no more money

Winston has said today

“The country’s railway network can expect a “serious injection” in the wake of the May 30 budget, according to Winston Peters.” https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112648672/deputy-pm-winston-peters-signals-budget-boost-for-railways

So there is more money, it’s just being thrown down the drain with the 3 billion jones bribe fund and then free university people didn’t want
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May 11, 2019 4:52pm
- sooty
  
  Less for the nurses and teachers!
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:39pm
nasska

Science vs religion:

In Religion, Buddha sits under a tree for 49 days & then realised that starving himself was a bad idea.

In Science, Isaac Newton sits under a tree for 49 seconds, an apple fell on his head & he discovered gravity.

Science definitely won that one!
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May 11, 2019 5:54pm
Hugh Pavletich

Aussie Housing Slump Deepens as New Sydney Listings Hit 2004 Low – Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-11/aussie-housing-slump-deepens-as-new-sydney-listings-hit-2004-low

Sydney houses are hitting the market at the slowest pace since 2004 and Melbourne is also seeing a dramatic slide in sellers, adding to concerns that Australia’s housing slump will sap economic growth and force the central bank to cut interest rates. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
2019 15th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
.
.
Definition Of An Affordable Housing Market – Performance Urban Planning

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/affordability.html
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May 11, 2019 6:41pm
David Garrett

Just read the sad news of an actor from Shortland Street who has taken his own life last night at age 38…Terribly terribly sad, even though I have never met the man…Another of those “out of left field” suicides that no-one saw coming…Well, noone in his circle who is saying anything today.

Suicide now takes TWICE as many people as the roads….and we hear fuck all about it…RIP that man.
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May 11, 2019 6:45pm
- nasska
  
  Ever thought about how many road fatalities are unproven suicides DG?
  
  Driving head-on into a 32 wheeler usually provides the desired outcome. It’s a bit tough on the truckie though.
  
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  May 11, 2019 7:09pm
- Southern Raider
  
  And what has Labour done about it in last 18 months? Nothing
  
  In fact despite claiming at the election it was a priority they have no only done nothing, but also cancelled investments started by National which were starting to get results
  
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  May 11, 2019 7:29pm
- Alien
  
  Oh it was suicide. Sad. I hope this isn’t connected to the entertainer sentenced to community service last week
  
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  May 11, 2019 7:31pm
  - Alien
    
    Mod please don’t approve my above comment, just remembered that case still has name suppression
    
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    May 11, 2019 7:40pm
- David Garrett
  
  What sort of sick fuck would downtick a comment like the above?? We have some truly awful people among us…
  
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  May 11, 2019 8:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  Over 12 times the death toll of the Christchurch murders yet less than one tenth of the coverage in the media or anywhere else…..
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:57pm
Captain Mainwaring

Yes David, the sad fact is that you are right.
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May 11, 2019 8:50pm
David Garrett

And there s/he is…what a totally sad person you must be…You hate me so much that whatever I write, something in your hind brain makes you BLOT it out…Sad…sad…sad….
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May 11, 2019 8:52pm
- Alien
  
  Trolls live for a reaction, just ignore them.
  
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  May 11, 2019 9:00pm
nasska

You’re paying the price for not hugging thieves & murderers JB. They are relatively sane when you compare them with the wankers who think that all should be forgiven on the basis of colonialism & a lack of breast feeding.

In any case carry on & fight the good fight. A series of three plus hour waits to pass moderation make me think that our host is indicating that my time here might be up.
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May 11, 2019 9:11pm
BrownSnake

Is Auckland Still an old sheep farm
with houses on it pretending to be a modern
city? that is crime infested has poor infrastructure is run by a mentally retarded city council? are there drug fuelled violent criminals roaming the streets as we speak and do low life auckland scum of the earth still burn australian woman alive in the boots of their cars and get away with it?

Or has that A hole of the world Socialist Stinking
Crap Hole got worse?

Drugs Gangs Violent Crime and well we all know
why they legalised prostitution
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May 11, 2019 10:49pm
Hugh Pavletich

… CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND: Big stores turning their backs on Christchurch Malls …

Kmart latest to announce plans as big stores turn backs on Christchurch malls | Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112375143/kmart-latest-to-announce-plans-as-big-stores-turn-backs-on-christchurch-malls?rm=m

Christchurch shopping malls are facing a shake-up as several big retailers move out of malls and into big new stores.

Kmart is the latest to announce plans, confirming it will leave The Palms Mall in Shirley after 23 years to go to a new store in Papanui.

The move is part of a trend towards big stores wanting independence. Others under way include New World closing its South City supermarket this weekend for a relaunch across the road, and Spotlight’s new build on Moorhouse Ave as it prepares to leave The Colombo by Christmas. … read more via hyperlink above …
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Christchurch’s new central city (stand – alone) New World supermarket opens | Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112545770/christchurchs-new-central-city-new-world-supermarket-opens
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… and increasingly… the flight to affordable housing gains momentum too … check (just updated – refresh / reload) 2019 section of Performance Urban Planning …

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/

… with major Government announcements expected mid – June.
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May 11, 2019 11:17pm
- BrownSnake
  
  2019 section of Performance Urban Planning
  
  You are kidding me right
  
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  May 11, 2019 11:59pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    BrownSnake … Make a particular point of reading the outstanding late March speech by Housing & Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford.
    
    I do hope you and other Kiwibloggers are as impressed with it as I am.
    
    I sure am looking forward to the major Government announcements expected mid – June.
    
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    May 12, 2019 12:21am
Hugh Pavletich

… meantime … the Dead – Centre of Christchurch …

… No mention of the anti – car / anti – business Christchurch Council bureaucrats … why ? …

… Meantime … Greater Christchurch (thanks to the adjoining responsibly governed and administered Waimakariri and Selwyn Councils) is booming …

Christchurch restaurant closures prompt fears hardest winter is coming | Radio New Zealand News

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388856/christchurch-restaurant-closures-prompt-fears-hardest-winter-is-coming

Central Christchurch hospitality operators fear they could be heading into the toughest winter to date. … read more via hyperlink above …
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May 11, 2019 11:58pm
RRM

So last night Miss 14 announced that she’d been asked to spend a day working at one of the Featherston Booktown event venues.

I asked if it was a paid position, to which Miss 14 threw up her hands, made a ridiculous pained face for her Mum’s benefit, and pronounced “THE GREED OF THE AVERAGE WHITE MAN!!”

Serves me right for asking an honest question I guess.

This sort of shit is why I stopped identifying with the left and voting for their politicians. This, relentlessly hostile identity politics, points scoring, race baiting and demonizing the other.

And now it has so totally taken over schools and social media, that even a child who doesn’t know the first thing about our political scene is getting in on it anyway.

If I was the average brown woman I’d storm off in a fit of pique, slamming the door on my way out…
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May 12, 2019 7:28pm

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