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March 27, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 March 2020

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General Debate

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Raphael

We are in danger of ending up wit a totalitarian police state

Now I agree we needed to do the shutdown do bring an end to the pandemic. And while it seems unprecedented (and it is in this day and age) it has been the typical response to plague forever.

What is concerning me however is the expansion of police powers. They can now enter any home to see if people are gathering there. They have said that will detain anyone travelling in their car, unless they have the right papers (or are going to the grocery store/medical facilities …. I am headed out to donate plasma today, and am concerned about being stopped by the cops even though it is legitimate travel). Police tend to not want to scale back their powers.

At the same time we have Angry Andy shoving through some hate speech laws so draconian that they won’t discuss any of it as it would lead to widespread protests.

We have cops in “follow up” interviews for renewing a gun demanding to know if the person has donated money to a minor political party.

All in all it makes we worred that we will exit this shutdown finding we’re now living in socialist police state. While the young are idolising our communist Prime Minister because she did a live stream in her pjs.

I am probably wrong, and I sincerely hope I am ….. but I do worry
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March 27, 2020 8:00am
- mjw
  
  Well Raphael – I think we will be ok. But I think you are right to worry. It is only public concern and pressure that will make sure the powers are rolled back afterwards, to restore our liberties. I’m sure the PM intends to do so anyway, but without additional public pressure various groups will try to hang on their power, and retain the precedents formed during the lockdown.
  
  So good on you.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:05am
  - adamsmith1922
    
    What do you mean ‘I am sure the PM means to do so’ .Really.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:55am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You are not just probably wrong, you are wrong. so you can stop worrying. I hope this helps.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:05am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I guess you say that because you expect to be one of those policing speech. Welcome to the thought police Mikey !
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:08am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Milky is unbelievable! He probably sees himself as all for civil liberties, while being totally with every restriction on our freedom!
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:36am
    - Batman
      
      There is a fair bit of hyperventilating and hyperbole going on here though.
      
      Mixing covid stuff with hate speech changes that aren’t real yet is just panicky nonsense.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:29am
      - Jack5
        
        But, but … Batman.
        
        Police Commissioner Bush, who wants to limit freedom of speech, heads the Government’s operational response to Covid-19, and the Herald on Monday reported Bush as saying the military will be called on if needed to ensure the public follow the Government restrictions in response to the coronavirus pandemic.
        
        It’s not “hyperventilating” to question such power in the hands of a person with Bush’s views on freedom of speech.
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:22pm
      - Batman
        
        No, you’re being ridiculous.
        
        Checking under your bed for monsters/Reds would be a better use of your afternoon.
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:49pm
      - Jack5
        
        Batty, you are implying that to question the abilities or views of those given extreme powers in an emergency is McCarthyism.
        
        C’mon Batman, you’re smarter than that, or DPF wouldn’t have made you a moderator. ?
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:06pm
- Ruahine
  
  You have every reason to worry. This has been a god send for this bossy bullying bunch of politicians. A great distraction from their incompetence of letting people into the country without proper checking. I am beginning to think that we have been setup.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:08am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    As with most of the actions/inactions perpetrated by this hopeless CoL, I think Hanlon’s Razor applies here:
    
    “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity”
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:16am
- TWEEDSE
  
  I agree Raphael. We have the trust running alcohol distribution in West Auckland. Reduced to sending an email for a choice of red or white wine in price brackets and then you will be told which store to drive to. Non of the “open” stores are near us.
  This is communist Russia. More and more I believe the virus’s effects will be secondary to the economic damage and shift to a dictatorship with Ardern at the helm. God help us all.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:11am
  - PhilBest
    
    Ann Coulter yesterday (that women is as tough as nails)
    
    “…The president should listen to experts in other fields, too. A country is more than an economy, but it’s also more than a virus.
    
    If we listened only to emergency room doctors, we might come away convinced that we have to completely ban cars, alcohol and gummy bears. (Don’t ask.) While taking a torts class in law school, I was afraid to sit under a chandelier, order a flaming dessert or stand at a train stop.
    
    Once a geologist remarked that life was possible even in the vast American desert. All you needed was water, he said, and the largest reservoir on the globe was located right under the Rockies.
    
    But how would he get it?
    
    Simple — drop a couple of atomic bombs.
    
    But what about the fallout?
    
    “Oh,” said the geologist, “that’s not my field.”
    
    Today, the epidemiologists are prepared to nuke the entire American economy to kill a virus.
    
    What about the jobs, the suicides, the heart attacks, the lost careers, the destruction of America’s wealth?
    
    Oh, that’s not my field.”
    
    https://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2020/03/25/how-do-we-flatten-the-curve-on-panic-n2565739
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:48am
- fernglas
  
  How can you agree with a shutdown and not accept that there needs to be an expansion of Police powers? How else is the shutdown to be enforced? If you accept that the rules must be followed, then you must accept the steps needed to ensure that they are, and without powers to stop vehicles or enter premises, they cannot be. Or are you like the PM who seems to think that everybody will comply with the rules because that’s what Kiwis do? News for you, Raphael. One week and the cops will be breaking up riots.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:12am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Do the new laws and regulations have an expiry date clause that they are repealed after the crisis passes and if not why not.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:01am
    - cmm
      
      Just remember that modern passports, as we understand them, were a temporary security measure introduced in Europe during WW1.
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:45am
      - kowtow
        
        And income tax was a temporary emergency measure during the Napoleonic wars .
        
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        March 27, 2020 9:53am
      - Jack5
        
        An interesting article on the evolution of passports:
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2006/nov/17/travelnews
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:25pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The National state of Emergency is in place for 7 days, but it can be extended.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/412583/covid-19-state-of-national-emergency-explained
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:46am
      - freethinker
        
        Maggy – extension is ok but when/if Govt tries or even indicates a wish for those laws to be permanent then we need massive public pressure for Binding Citizen Initiated Referenda to ensure our elected officials do what their paymasters require. Without effective control of legislators civil disobedience or worse follows. Check out the fate of the Romanian president who was executed – Nicolae Ceaușescu
        
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        March 27, 2020 11:33am
  - cmm
    
    Sure, if we have a shutdown, then it needs to be enforcable, but there are many ways to achieve this.
    
    As any business leadership book will tell you (aside: why don’t our politicians have any business leadership experience?), there are basically two ways to achieve this: soft power and hard power.
    
    Soft power comes from explaining things well, establishing 2 way trust, being seen to be fair and logical and thereby getting compliance though people seeking a common goal via common methods.
    
    Hard power comes through force and threats. No matter the logic or fairness, we have the guns (in a business setting do what I say or you’re fired!).
    
    The problem with hard power is that people will sneak behind your back. They will resist. They will undermine what you are trying to achieve. In this day and age tear gas and rubber bullets makes for bad optics.
    
    Now it is certainly true that not all people are amenable to soft power and some with hard power, but you really want the vast majority to go along with the soft power option. Basically only criminals should need hard power.
    
    But we have a situation where things have not been set up well for soft power:
    * Poor communications and lying lead to distrust.
    * The “lock-down” is being compromised by not isolating the hundreds of people arriving at our borders daily – many of whom are infected. They go directly into the community where they will use the same supermarkets etc.
    * Illogical rules with no good reason or explanation. Why can I buy wine, but not RTDs? Why can’t someone relocate to their bach for a lockdown? Why can’t people “lock down” in a camper van while touring SI (so long as they stay away from others)? There might be solid reasons, but those have not been presented. ALl we get are threats.
    
    So sorry people, just like in Soviet era Russia or any other place that has tried to flex their muscles too much, people will end up working outside the system. People want RTDs and spirits? They will be able to buy them through gangs etc. People will “go walking”, have parties, etc etc.
    
    The mere fact that PriNZess keeps Bush on hand to make threats means she knows she has lost the soft power battle.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:43am
    - PhilBest
      
      I said yesterday that if Jacinda sacked the guy, that would probably be the biggest boost to her election chances evah!!
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:58am
    - Tall Man
      
      Well reasoned. Simon and some of the other numbnuts could learn from that.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I expect legitimate authority before use of any powers. I have seen too much abuse by public officials who believed they had the power because it suited their preferences or mode of operations.
    Would you like the Commission of Inland Revenue to self enlarge his powers because he believed the COL needed more money? Same principle.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:57am
    - Tall Man
      
      And he will.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:13am
      - Paulus
        
        Inland Revenue He is a Her now !
        
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        March 27, 2020 10:34am
      - Tall Man
        
        Sexist…. Oops, that was me I suppose but I wasn’t brave enough to call the Boss of the IRD an it 😉
        
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        March 27, 2020 5:11pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Well fernglas, that will be a test of your predictive powers. Will we, or will we not, have riots by next Thursday?
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:02am
    - Tall Man
      
      Only in my house if I don’t get rid of the crutches and start cooking again ?
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:15am
    - cmm
      
      WM: How big is a riot?
      
      I bet you three servo pies (that is a big bet for me) that we:
      * have at least some “disturbances”
      * at least two gang related clashes/shootings
      
      by Thursday next week
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:15am
      - Tall Man
        
        Now a serious question. Can you still buy a pie at the service stations? My neighbour just loves them and is concerned she may have to revert to healthy food.
        
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        March 27, 2020 5:56pm
  - Raphael
    
    I can agree with many of the measures, however our police had already been getting increasingly authoritarian prior to the shutdown.
    That is what makes me worried.
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:26pm
- Simon
  
  Road blocks, extraordinary police powers, closed shops, tracking, rationing, media glorifying our shining leader, no gatherings, curfews, controlled movement, believe only in the State, wages paid by the State, sidelined political opposition, crushed private sector and savings.
  
  The Wuhan sniffles. Its a leftist wet dream.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is that why we have it? The economics of the shutdown over what would be the usual flu is mind boggling. Without production we starve. Where does a govt keep on getting money from to sustain the losses we are being set up for? Having ex-fishnchips shop staff running NZ give little confidence for protection against a Weimar repeat.
    Mitigate not master.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:02am
    - MrLovebucket
      
      She only does what helps her in the future for the UN
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:58am
    - IC5000
      
      > Having ex-fishnchips shop staff running NZ give little confidence for protection against a Weimar repeat.
      
      How dare you! Pauline’s the salt of the earth!
      
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      March 27, 2020 1:42pm
  - Wired-one
    
    Add to that all the new taxes and policies that the left will enact to pay for all those borrowing. Rent increases will be limited or banned for a sustained period beyond the current freeze. There will be a new tax bracket and more than likely a wealth or inheritance tax, all in the name of helping your country.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:31am
    - Nickc2
      
      Can’t disagree with a word you have written. Cindy’s press agent (Barry Soper) was speaking on NewsTalk ZB a few minutes ago praising St Cindy.
      Is he really that stupid, or is he after a permanent job in her office? If it’s the office job you after Barry, be careful of all those lumps under the carpet in Cindy’s office and no Fisherman jokes.
      
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      March 27, 2020 12:46pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Make sure you have the NZ Blood phone app or the text they send they day before so you can show it to them without winding down the window.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:26am
  - Raphael
    
    Plasma donation went off without a hitch
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:45pm
- emmess
  
  I am probably wrong, and I sincerely hope I am ….. but I do worry
  
  Doesn’t matter if you are wrong.
  The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:31am
- stewmar
  
  If joe public thinks things are getting out of hand they’ll vote accordingly. Perhaps coos could use their draconian powers to clean out the gang scums
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:36am
  - calendar girl
    
    You’re confident that “emergency powers” won’t be invoked by the Coalition to delay the next General Election and leave Ardern’s lot to run the country – say, for an extra year or two?
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:26am
    - Batman
      
      I am. The Crown wouldn’t allow it unless actually required.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:22am
      - calendar girl
        
        (Apologies, Batman, I down-ticked in error in trying to reply to your comment.)
        
        But who acts as or for “The Crown” in this kind of instance? And how does that “Crown” figure enforce its decisions and directions?
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:28pm
    - curry4me
      
      calendar girl: That needs a 75% vote in parliament. I wouldn’t put them past trying it on though.
      
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      March 27, 2020 1:24pm
      - calendar girl
        
        Thanks, c4m.
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:53pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I’d love to vote for someone better. But where have National or Act been saying a word about PC Bush? About over-reach, message inconsistencies, unnecessary threatening attitude towards the public?
    
    As for ‘clean out the gang scums’ – what would that really mean? They would still be in NZ, still committing crimes.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:49am
- James Stephenson
  
  The UK cops are wetting their pants with glee as well. Following people with drones because they have the temerity to take their dog for a walk in the Peak District
  
  https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/26/britain-is-sliding-into-dystopia/?fbclid=IwAR0eMx9tymqeq3C4L-Hl1vQ1y2chIqg2ZcZS5Lo12Y0AMbb7M7-aycL10D4
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:38am
  - PhilBest
    
    The UK cops are a few years ahead of ours; it is one of the things that makes me most distraught about our civilization, that the Police of all people get subverted and turned into PC-fascism’s enforcers. If the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, then the vigilance has to be about “the institutions”. Who is “stacking” them, with who?
    
    “Mainstream centre right” political parties are very responsible for not counteracting this when it is their turn in office for a few years. For example, John Key could have made a powerful statement by reinstating Commissioner Peter Doone.
    
    When you see the battle that a true “culture war” conservative President like Donald Trump has, to even start to change the culture in the administration with appointments of key people, you wonder how much more of a lost cause NZ is.
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:58am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Segue re dogs: they might carry the virus.
    
    WHO is now uncertain if they can spread it.
    
    So when Kate Hawkesby smugly and self-righteously talked this morning about walking her dog while other people were supposedly doing things she disapproved of (such sitting on deckchairs and talking, though at a distance), maybe she needs to re-think her dog walking. Could it snuffle up the virus from another dog and spread it about?
    
    https://qz.com/1818227/the-who-says-that-dogs-cats-and-other-pets-can-get-coronavirus/
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:55am
- peterwn
  
  The principal safeguard is there has to be an election and if it is to be postponed until after November, the support of National MP’s is essential.
  The over-arching objective of the powers is to keep person to person contact to the barest minimum and to minimise risk of transmission where contact is essential. Some people will thumb their noses at the lockdown and as a class they would potentially be committing collective manslaughter. So the enforcement powers are needed to bring these people into line.
  A 5% reduction of contact would probably mean a far greater than 5% reduction of spread of the disease. On this basis heavy handed enforcement where needed is warranted.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:50am
  - PhilBest
    
    As long as political correctness does not result in a blind eye being turned to where the problem really is at its worst, and opportunity maximised to go after people in the wrong “political thought” category.
    
    It will be extremely interesting to see whether there is a spectacular collapse over this period, in the crime of home invasion, for example. People who were intending to commit a crime anyway aren’t going to bother about breaking a lesser law in the process of that crime. The same applies to “gun control”. Someone who wants to commit a murder isn’t going to be deterred by the penalties for “getting a gun in the first place”.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:03am
  - kiwiracer
    
    The heavy handedness was needed at the early stages, close the borders. . . Oh, that’s right, there’s still people getting into the country.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:13am
    - Tall Man
      
      “Special people”.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Why wasn’t this done in previous epidemics? As a number cruncher I find the data too scanty to give the fearsome outcomes projected. It’s like a global strike has occurred and brains have gone to mush on fear with progressive feeding.
    “Kill the people it’s good for the planet. ” What’s then left a handful of super rich owning the remaining peasants? Work is part of the human requirements, debt is not, that brings control.
    Where are we headed? The 2008 GFC was never mastered but enlarged by massive credit creation where losses were piled on taxpayers and the manipulators further enriched. The new humongous credit creation is furthering that issue. Have we been set up for a grand global takeover or have we actually entered the beginning of the End Times? Come Lord Jesus.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:15am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Peterwn: Nobody here is ‘thumbing their nose’ at lockdown. Some have wanted it earlier. Some (me included) think it should not have been necessary if proper border control, isolation of arrivals and contact tracing had been introduced much sooner. But yes, now lockdown makes some sense.
    
    What people here are concerned about it authoritarian over-reach, unnecessary restrictions, inconsistent rules, authorities making up rules as it suits them, unnecessarily hard enforcement messages to a largely compliant public and most of all: any long-term effects on our freedom.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:06am
- rightoverlabour
  
  saw this on stuff and heard top plod on the radio. Looks like common sense has been replaced with Gestapo like martial law
  
  “And if you are not sure who to listen to on this, the Police Commissioner is probably a better person than the PM.”
  
  Since when is this ever a good idea or in fact constitutional?
  And while I am at it are plod going to fine people with expired warrants? Bring it on ….
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    ‘Gestapo’
    Sure, it’s only a matter of time before the arrests, torture and executions…
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:33am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      He has threatened arrests. You’re naive and haven’t been listening.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:10am
      - Batman
        
        Yeah, arrests of people who are flagrantly flouting the damn restrictions and putting the whole system in danger. And meaning we all have to stay home for longer.
        
        The same with anything else, if you break the law then you will get arrested eventually.
        
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        March 27, 2020 11:40am
      - Jack5
        
        If Bush and Little set up camps, Batman will be a kapo.
        
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        March 27, 2020 3:59pm
  - tf78
    
    He seems to change his mind more than Cindy.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    All that’s the easy part. What is the chief plod doing about Maori Malitia in the Far North and on the East Coast who are preventing law-abiding citizens and tourists going about their lawful business? Oh, that’s right, he’s sending other plods to assist the Militias.
    This is just the beginning. Did Comrade Cindy say when these ungazetted powers given to the chief plod would be rescinded? Of course not, They will serve her purpose long into the future. Get used to them Cup Cakes Comrade Cindy was heard to mutter as she contorted her face into an extra serious look and strode rapidly off the stage at the Parliamentary Press briefing.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:23am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Mathew Hooten thinks we can trust Jacinda Ardern to get us through this crisis. So be calm and cool.
  
  In Jacinda We Trust.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:06am
  - pdm
    
    Hooten seems to be becoming a bit of a Jacinda sycophant these days.
    
    I wonder if it is because he is in the anti Bridges camp.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:46am
    - curry4me
      
      pdm: I won’t be following any more links to his articles then.
      
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      March 27, 2020 1:30pm
  - toby1845
    
    Hooten writes for The Herald. His opinions aren’t worth a pinch of brown stuff.
    
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    March 27, 2020 2:26pm
    - Jack5
      
      … or as they say down south Toby, a nob of rabbit shit.
      
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      March 27, 2020 4:00pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Raphael, you are right to be concerned. When PC Bush tells people off for going to an ATM, while banks are saying ATMs will be stocked and cleaned, Bush is just making up his own rules. I haven’t heard him apologize to Kiwis for being wrong yet.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2020/03/coronavirus-customers-urged-to-bank-remotely-during-lockdown-period.html
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:34am
- oldfella
  
  Great ‘Spiked’ article on why it is important to be able to express dissent, even at times like these.
  https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/23/dissent-in-a-time-of-covid/
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:58am
All_on_Red

Have we found out how many Ventilators NZ has yet?

Meanwhile;
Manufacturer Dyson teams up with a tech company and designs a Ventilator in 10 days.
Just going through approval now and the UK has ordered 10,000
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/dyson-james-ventilator-covent-coronavirus-government-a4398026.html

Here’s a tip Ardern
Ring up and fucking order some!
You’re moving too slow.
Oh, and get some of those Sth Korean testing kits which give results in 7 minutes too.
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March 27, 2020 8:05am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Looks like we’re short of “gowns” also.
  
  Note how the media never mention the word “plastic” in the context of PPE.
  
  Will no one think of the turtles?
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Turtles don’t count when there’s a separately prioritised crisis.
    
    Daft Dunners is one of the loon climate councils (carbon zero/zero landfill/ sea level blahblah)and yet despite the rhetoric (which we know was just posturing) plastics will now go into the landfill or even worse get into the oceans !
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/changes-made-rubbish-collection-recycling
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:34am
- MrTips
  
  We have 563 ICU capable beds and 520 ventilators.
  We also have no PPE for health staff: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/412715/not-enough-protective-medical-gear-available-despite-govt-assurances-supplier
  
  If this thing takes hold then the fake scaffolding is well and truly off our “fantastic” PM and her inept band of Orcs. The fall out will be huge. Our MoH is brilliantly inept it would seem and well led by Jacinda, Clark and Robo over the bank of LittleFacist.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:14am
  - Yvette
    
    It all adds up to 563 [intensive care] beds and 520 ventilators in public hospitals. In private hospitals and at other providers, the survey shows there are about 250 ventilators, though only 22 ICU beds. “Private hospitals, teaching universities, emergency services defence force and veterinary providers also have ventilators and anaesthetic machine ventilators. “The number of these and their suitability is being assessed,” the ministry said. [1]
    
    So roughly 585 intensive care beds, and 770 ventilators.
    
    But their availability is reduced by the average time a patient may require a ventilator for, which would seem to be the information still needed to tell how well catered for we are with ventilators.
    
    Has anyone seen a vague average time that a patient requires to be one a ventilator for to beat the Virus?
    
    [1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/new-zealand-has-153-intensive-care-beds-according-survey
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:43am
    - Sofia
      
      153 intensive care beds in public hospitals and that could be expanded to just over 560 by co-opting space from other units.
      “What we have to bear in mind is the current beds available in New Zealand ICUs aren’t empty and waiting for patients to get Covid-19, they are 80-90 percent full at all times so the amount of spare, available beds is low.
      
      So only 56 – 112 beds are available (560 x 20%, or x 10%)
      
      ‘If people don’t follow the rules, if the disease does spread and we get a group of patients all coming through at once we will very quickly exhaust that capacity.”
      “We hope we never get to that position, we continue to reinforce the message to those New Zealanders who may think this is overblown or exaggerated, it really isn’t. Please follow the guidelines that have been set out by the prime minister.”
      “What infuriates me about that behaviour is it’s not them who they are putting at risk as they are probably young and well, when they spread the virus it won’t be them who are most affected by it.
      “But it might be their parents or their grandparents so they should think twice.”
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018740328/covid-19-does-nz-have-enough-icu-beds-ventilators
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:36am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        But which rules? Govt site? PC Dodge against ATM use? Banks saying they will stock and clean ATMs? Kate Hawkesby whining about people daring to still sit on deckchairs and talk?
        
        I’m living very locked down myself btw. Just in case PC Dodge sends someone to knock on my door….
        
        But the inconsistent messages and authoritarian tone are upsetting a lot of decent, sensible people.
        
        7 1
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        March 27, 2020 11:17am
      - Yvette
        
        The average time spent in the ICU in Italy by a patient with COVID-19 is 15 days [1]
        Severe Covid-19 cases spent more than 4 weeks on ventilators [2]
        Among the fatal cases at the Wuhan hospital, death typically occurred about a week after admission to the ICU, the researchers said. [2]
        If a patient has serious complications and requires a ventilator, the stay is doubled to an average of 16 days.[3]
        
        If you have 560 beds but already a 80 – 90% occupancy it leaves only 20 – 10% 0f those beds, so 112 t0 56 available , as Sofia suggests.
        But the time a patient requires a bed – one to two weeks – means that lower number for example, 56, would only turn over each 7 to 14 days, so in effect giving you only 8 to 4 beds a day. Does it not?
        
        See what random Googling and a few assumptions can do for you?
        Is this why some people have stock-piled so much toilet paper?
        
        [1] https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927432
        [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-23/coronavirus-patients-long-ventilator-stays-strain-hospitals
        [3] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1258051/Coronavirus-patients-UK-hospitals-how-long-stay-in-hospital-covid-19
        
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        March 27, 2020 11:30am
      - IC5000
        
        The bottleneck is getting hold of qualified nurse to staff ICUs as well.
        
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        March 27, 2020 1:44pm
    - Old White Loser
      
      It can be up to 14 – 21 days on a ventilator which is the problem
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:33am
  - freethinker
    
    Mr Tips – Check out this video from Sky Aussie and then consider were Chinese resident/citizens in Aus /NZ?? & other places are actually loyal too? Are Chinese a fifth column in western countries?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLAey9PZAn8
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:55pm
- BK Scurfield
  
  Meanwhile over in NZ:
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/urgent-moves-to-build-ventilators-here/ar-BB11mTxL
  
  “Fisher & Paykel is New Zealand’s best-known medical equipment manufacturer, and sells respiratory products – but not ventilators.
  
  ‘We do not manufacture ventilators and don’t have expertise in this specific product area,” spokesperson Karen Knott told Newsroom yesterday. “Right now the company is currently focused on responding to increased demand for respiratory humidification products and we think that is the best thing we can be doing in these challenging times.’”
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:25am
  - Jules99
    
    Probably more a case of budget than expertise.
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:53am
  - Komata
    
    BK@0825
    
    A small but possibly important point, is that I am advised that F&P is now Chinese owned.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:23am
    - cmm
      
      I’m not sure
      
      F&P healthcare is a different company to F&P whiteware (who are now owned by the Chinese company Heire or whatever they are called).
      
      14 1
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      March 27, 2020 9:54am
      - DeepBlue
        
        You are correct. Separate companies for many years now. F&P Healthcare are a publicly listed company on NZ stock exchange. There are probably Chinese shareholders just as there are NZ mum and dad investors.
        
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        March 27, 2020 10:03am
      - curry4me
        
        cmm: Thanks for the heads up. I won’t be buying any F&P whiteware. The Warehouse sell Daewoo fridges from South Korea. Washers, and dryers too, I think.
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:24pm
    - Jules99
      
      I do know there are quite a few Chinese staff there and one staff member told me that the team leader said she wouldn’t get a promotion because she was not Chinese, like the rest of the team.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:56am
      - Jack5
        
        It was pretty hard for F&P to survive as a New Zealand company in the international whiteware industry, where scale counts.
        
        But F&P gave it a good go, and the machines were quite advanced in some aspects, but once the protection provided in the NZ market by exclusive retailing franchises ended, they couldn’t compete.
        
        In contrast, the Dunedin robotics company, Scott Technology, is a leading manufacturer of production lines for world whiteware makers.
        
        It’s a step or two up the food chain.
        
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        March 27, 2020 4:06pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  All on Pink thinks he or she is the only one that reads the papers and that there is no industry-speak or co-operation. The next discovery will be that there are cars.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:45am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I don’t think I’m the only one who reads the paper and my link highlights cooperation between private industry and Govt.
    You really are stupid.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:26am
  - Tall Man
    
    Why try to be a smartarse? He gave some good information which I didn’t know and am unlikely to seek out.
    
    Are you trying to out mikey mikey?
    
    5 1
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    March 27, 2020 10:26am
- Hapuku
  
  You don’t just need ventilators, you need enough nurses trained to use them.
  
  My son has just started in ICU and said that in normal circumstances he wouldn’t be trained to use a ventilator until he had been there for a year or two.
  Maybe a fast track in the present circumstances?
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:57am
  - cmm
    
    Everything can be fast tracked.
    
    Remember that med school etc teaches people for “perfect conditions”. We now need “good enough”.
    
    A person can be trained to monitor a ventilator to meet the basic needs of dealing with COVID in less than 2 days. Then have 5 or 10 such people be supervised by a trained ICU nurse. Suddenly you have effectively multiplied ICU staff by a factor of 10.
    
    They don’t need all the rest of nurse training (how to put in tubes, do injections, how to hand out the pill,…)
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:00am
    - toby1845
      
      And how to understand ToW issues, tikanga Maori and the impact of colonization…….
      
      4 1
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      March 27, 2020 2:42pm
      - cmm
        
        That’s why I said 2 days.
        
        One day for actual training and another day for indoctrination.
        
        3 2
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        March 27, 2020 3:17pm
- madamezucchininz
  
  …..we have 500 ventilators…..but according to a Dr I know all our ICU beds have people in them….
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:06am
  - Tall Man
    
    And not with covid 19 either.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:28am
- MCos
  
  “Have we found out how many Ventilators NZ has yet?“
  The answer is yes. I heard Doc Bloomfield mention a number yesterday.
  This article has the details.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12319640
  He said the other day there were some older ones that had been replaced, but were still functional. Coming up with an overall number was not straightforward.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:07am
- DeepBlue
  
  We have moved past the ventilator counting now. Too late, too little.
  
  Triage committee had been established. It will be impossible to keep people at home for more than 4 weeks. This is just about buying time.
  
  Newshub ‘A mixed committee of doctors, ethics, intensive care and infectious disease specialists and lay people are working on a ‘triage tool’ that could be ready as early as next week.’
  
  This 3 or 4 week shutdown is to try and slow the virus, but it is also to get the paperwork sorted for deciding who will live and who will die. We cannot sacrifice medical staff for the weak. If you are old or with preexisting conditions you WILL NOT be put on a ventilator as they will be scarce. (I have a preexisting condition).
  
  You will have to decide how you want to self protect yourself and live into the future. And after 18 months when/if a vaccine is available we shall see who is still standing.
  
  Jacinda is going to have some terrible news to announce in the next two weeks.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:57am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  We are fast and we are world leading and we have Cindy. Why are you so worried?
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:06am
  - Tall Man
    
    Because there are people out there that actually believe the shit you post in an attempt at farce.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:30am
Wired-one

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120590435/in-the-survivor-jungle-ardern-is-winning-the-communications-contest

Our embarrassing media have already decided the election, move on people.
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March 27, 2020 8:06am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  If Verity Johnson’s puff piece is going to decide the election, as a country we deserve what is coming. Let it come.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:08am
mikenmildagain

On the bright side, it is International Whisky Day. It’s overcast here, so I can’t quite tell if the sun is over the yardarm.
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March 27, 2020 8:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Your supply might have to stretch out for a few more months… be canny.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:57am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    We can still get liquor deliveries. Eg:
    https://www.winesale.co.nz/spirits-and-liqueurs/single-malt-whisky/
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:40am
    - MrLovebucket
      
      My local brewery is still operating on reduced staffing. They deliver and have given me a special 20% discount code that is unique to me. Not sure if this is a good thing, but should hopefully get me through the lockdown.
      
      I just wish we had Key/English back in charge.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:04am
  - graham
    
    Someone mentioned Whisky and More (https://www.whiskyandmore.co.nz/) recently. I’ve never used them so can’t vouch for them, but they have a notice on their webpage saying they are open. “The Government has decided the contactless delivery of alcohol purchased from an online retailer is an essential business for New Zealand.”
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:41am
    - Tall Man
      
      I use them frequently … more frequently than I should ?
      
      They are good.
      
      6 1
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      March 27, 2020 10:33am
    - Tall Man
      
      I should add that I started using them because all the local suppliers were purchased by a “conglomerate” shall we say and immediately increased pricing on my favourite brands. When I said I’d shop elsewhere he told me to go for it as they were all now the same price ??
      
      Cue whiskey and more who are currently $9 per bottle less than the local thieving mother………s.
      
      5 1
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      March 27, 2020 10:38am
      - Clyde
        
        I found the same. A relatively cheap single malt Laphroaig was $20 cheaper per bottle than the local major chain.
        
        7 0
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        March 27, 2020 11:43am
    - Papalazarou
      
      They are good to deal with.
      
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      March 27, 2020 6:37pm
- Simon
  
  Yep on the bright side.
  
  Also remember the CCP cell that purchased the National & Labour parties have been rolled up by the SFO.
  
  Small victories.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:01am
- Ed Snack
  
  Time for a tot of the 20 year old Glenmorangie then. Pity there’s only half a bottle left and no way to get more duty free. But it’s a guid drop.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Not duty-free prices, but if you need your whisky:
    https://www.winesale.co.nz/laphroaig-scotland-islay-lore-48-700ml
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:45am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Whiskey and more is always cheaper than AIAL duty free in my experience.
    
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    March 27, 2020 1:28pm
  - cha
    
    20 year old Glenmorangie then
    
    Are you sure it’s a 20 year old Glenmorangie?
    
    Scientists with the Radiocarbon Lab at the Scottish Universities Environmental Research Centre (SUERC) in Glasgow, Scotland, realized that accurately dating whisky based on the carbon-14 content could be tricky, as harvested barley may be stockpiled for years before being sent to a distillery. The researchers adjusted for that by creating a calibration curve, referencing carbon-14 data from whiskeys with known distillation years from 1950 to 2015.
    
    Then, they evaluated allegedly rare whiskeys from 1847 to 1978, and found that nearly half the bottles weren’t as old as they were supposed to be. One bottle, a Talisker with a label indicating it was distilled in 1863, was likely distilled between 2007 and 2014. A bottle of Ardbeg from 1964 was probably distilled after 1995, and a Laphroaig labeled 1903 dated to 2011 or later.
    
    https://www.livescience.com/nuclear-bomb-carbon-fraudulent-whiskey.html
    
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    March 27, 2020 2:28pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Ouch!. Stick to the cheap stuff.
      
      1 0
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      March 27, 2020 4:23pm
      - Tall Man
        
        If mixed with fizzy, good advice. If not then probably not good advice.
        
        Mind you, keep a bottle of the cheap stuff because after number 3 the good stuff is a waste, IMHO.
        
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        March 27, 2020 5:16pm
- Tall Man
  
  Somewhere else… Always.
  
  Personally I prefer whiskey.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:32am
- septic skeptic
  
  Sun over the yard arm was an interesting tradition. Back in the days of a pint of raw rum circa 60% proof per man per day. The sun actually gets above the yard arm about half an hour after dawn!
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:08pm
secondcumming

Once all this virus shit is over, let ‘Made in China’ be a badge of shame 😎
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March 27, 2020 8:07am
- yossarian
  
  And make you look twice with anything “Made in Italy” as well
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:53am
  - PhilBest
    
    There’s been an increase in general trivia knowledge as the result of this crisis. I know now that “made in Italy” often actually means “made in Italy by Chinese workers”. I also now know what a Pangolin is. Never heard of it before!
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pangolinism
      
      Tesco suspected his friend Rupert of pangolinism, but what gave it away was the jars of ants and the acrid smell of pangolin jizz.
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:43am
  - lifesgood
    
    I bought a great pair of shorts recently with the “made in Italy” label on them. Feeling ripped off, they weren’t cheap. The truth is out now, they were made in China, just on Italian soil.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:09am
    - Mummy
      
      The Made in Italy brand is all over Europe. I have bought it in Croatia Greece Portugal and Spain at least. It’s cheap and cheerful mostly linen or cotton that falls apart the first time you wash it. But if looked after carefully you might get 2 NZ summers out of it
      I never paid more than about NZD40 for any one item and was horrified to come back to NZ to find the same thing here for nearly 10 times the price and marketed as though it’s some sort of luxury brand which it’s not.
      
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      March 27, 2020 4:35pm
  - gravedodger
    
    The Clothing, (often Designer labeled) made in the Italian region worst affected is made in Chinese owned facilities to avoid the Made in China stigma.
    Chaos increased following the flights home for the Chinese work force for the Chinese New Year, who then returned complete with Covid19.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:12am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Ironic bit of news this morning.
    
    Italy are returning to China the gift of Covid-19 testing kits. Because testing kits used have failed to work!
    
    On a side note, 4 years ago we had a Chinese exchange teacher staying with us for a month. Other than food products, she refused to buy anything “Made in China”, because she considered it rubbish. Her bias was such, that even her family car was a VW Polo, that hadn’t been built in China!
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:37am
    - theoldbloke
      
      Its a status thing with Chinese.!
      Driving around Shanghai a couple of years back and the number of Mercs, AUdis, Volvos, VW was astounding.
      
      Its all about face. ie I have the money to buy anything I want. So I waste my money on expensive toys to show my neighbours I am “”somebody important””.
      
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      March 27, 2020 4:02pm
- curry4me
  
  secondcumming. I agree. The ‘Made in China’ stuff needs to stay on the shelf. after the lockdown is over; go to your usual stores, and say to the manager. “I don’t want to buy stuff from China due to the CCP virus lies, and their terrible human rights record”. Tell them you don’t mind paying a little more. Remind them that there are non-Chinese drop-shippers.
  
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  March 27, 2020 2:35pm
Durden

DPF
Could Curia run a Corona virus related question as part of weekly national survey and publish the result, and trend, as a social service contribution ?

From what I can see, this might provide a more accurate read of the state of the contagion, or at least an valid alternative read, of the situation compared to controlled bullshit we are being fed.

Someone might even sponsor this. It will be an interesting exercise in itself to see if the Jacinda’s kind government clamps down on it using emergency powers.
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March 27, 2020 8:17am
- Tempist
  
  Be kind, or else…
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    Believe it or not but a mod here told me that a couple of days ago about ardern……
    
    Suffice it to say that advice was given the same consideration ardern gives you and I.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:41am
- PhilBest
  
  Linda Reid posted this yesterday on the GD, late in the thread. I think DPF should dedicate a thread to it:
  
  https://amgreatness.com/2020/03/19/dangerous-curves/
  
  It is entirely likely COVID-19 was around in the USA well before any particular attention was paid to it, and was just submerged in the data for “flu, other”. So there might be a LOT more people who got it, threw it off, and even some who died without much of a statistical blip showuing up. And there may be a LOT more people with antibodies to it already than we imagined.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:45am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The problem with that hypothesis is that COVID-19 has some symptoms that are uncommon with the normal influenza, such as the breathlessness and the lung damage. That can occur with the normal flu, but it is pretty rare. Those same symptoms were the hallmark of SARS and MERS as well, and both of those are known diseases.
    
    Therefore if COVID-19 was widespread, then we *should* have seen an upsurge in cases showing those severe symptoms. One of the problems with COVID-19 is just these symptoms and the need for hospital and even intensive care for breathing problems – it’s not just the sort of pneumonia one can get with a normal flu.
    
    So I tend to doubt these theories on the basis that unless it wasn a mild version of the same without the lung related issues, then we haven’t seen enough patients with severe symptoms. It was the appearance of just a few patients presenting in Wuhan with severe pneumonia and lung damage that alerted doctors there to the issue. We’re talking of around 10 patients, so the syndrome is unusual enough to be noticed.
    
    Therefore I doubt that this virus has been present before in any widespread way.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:25am
    - PhilBest
      
      But the point is that people can have THE VIRUS and NOT go down with the most severe symptoms. This is why three statistics: diagnosed; hospitalized; and deaths. Everyone now with a temperature and the snuffles is being tested for COVID-19 and some people test positive but don’t go beyond a bit snuffly. Isolation is fine, hospitalization unnecessary.
      
      In fact the hospitalization is almost entirely cases that get bilateral pneumonia as well, and it is the combination that kills them, not the COVID-19 on its own.
      
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      March 27, 2020 1:22pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Thumb prick antibody test urgently and widely needed! Might find that vast numbers of workforce actually immune and can get back to business.
    
    Also, antibodies can be harvested and used for treatment.
    
    6 1
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    March 27, 2020 11:34am
    - Batman
      
      Cool do you have a plan for that much testing on top of the current load?
      
      Thought not.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:49am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Did you not understand that fairly simple comment? We need a quick and easy test. Hopefully not far away.
        
        8 1
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        March 27, 2020 12:14pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Different test. Heaps simpler than current one. Madly under development in several places. Will also identify people who have recovered and/or are asymptomatic.
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:17pm
    - Jules99
      
      There was a story on Sky news about a finger prick test in Australia.
      
      https://youtu.be/Wx1Fbl9q6w4
      
      6 1
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      March 27, 2020 12:03pm
      - toby1845
        
        “….a finger prick test in Australia.”
        
        Wasn’t there a finger prick trial in New Zealand recently? Apparently the finger prick was given permanent name suppression by a judge called Collins.
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:56pm
G152

Who (if I may be allowed to ask) is going to tell us when this is all over and permit us to get back to what we’d think of as normality …
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March 27, 2020 8:19am
- PhilBest
  
  Note the frenzy of attacks on President Trump for talking about this.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:09am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Formal : The National Emergency was declared by the Minister of Civil Defence… so I expect he will declare it over
  (although more likely… he will declare a period of National Transition)
  
  https://www.civildefence.govt.nz/cdem-sector/legislation/civil-defence-emergency-management-amendment-act/ministerial-powers/
  
  Because this is a Pandemic and not a natural disaster event (earthquake/storm/flood etc)… it is the DG of Health that advises the Minister of CD.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s getting a bit of an outlier using civil defence for a health problem.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:25am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No…
      It’s an Emergency… so CD is always there Coordinating the response…but it takes advice from the Lead Ministry.
      
      If it’s an Eruption or a Earthquake… GNS will be the lead Advisors.
      
      Anyway, check out the CV of Sarah Stuart-Black – Director of CDEM… she’ll understand the health implications of this pandemic
      
      https://conferences.co.nz/nzsee2020/invitedspeakers/sarah-stuart-black/
      
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      March 27, 2020 12:31pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Cindy will let you know in 2023 and then you can come out of your house.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:10am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Labour voters sooner…
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:36am
- gravedodger
  
  I wonder if what is claimed “normal” will ever return with working from home, home schooling and companies having made coping moves understand the old ways are redundant?
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:15am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, my company is finding that people can work from home, but it is cumbersome and much harder to manage. Also fraught with technical difficulties though I suspect that these are teething issues – like we had only 16 external IP addresses allocated to remote access – which was fine for normal operations, but not when you have 40 people trying to remote in at once.
    
    I also notice that internet throughput slows to a crawl every now and then, even on unlimited fibre. This is something that can be remedied with a bit of investment in switching and network capacity.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:29am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Gravedodger, I hope there is some positive outcome in that regard. For instance I know people who live far from Auckland but commuted for work each week, now working quite successfully online from their lifestyle blocks.
    
    And Hosking had some interesting thoughts about online teachers today: it’s really showing him which are great, engaged teachers and which are lazy twats.
    
    To reduce commuter traffic by more days working from home and also reduce flu season generally by people getting used to working from home when slightly sick, this would be pretty useful.
    
    Might also help reduce some of the endless ‘Climate Change’ wailing…
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:42am
- MCos
  
  Christchurch had a couple of earthquakes almost a decade ago.
  If it’s any help things are nowhere near the normal everyone knew before those events.
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:01am
  - MCos
    
    The answer is there will be a new normal. Schools will reopen. The Warehouse will reopen. You’ll be able to buy a flat white.
    But for a lot of people loan sharks will ruin their lives, cars will vanish, landlords will have hard decisions to make . . . .
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:11am
you reap what you sow

who would have guessed?
As of March 28: In Stunning Show Of Hypocrisy, China Shuts All Borders To Foreigners Over Virus Fears
We should hear comments about racist china from:
1. chinese NZ ambassador
2. WHO
3. Green Party
4. NZ Student Association
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March 27, 2020 8:21am
Maggie Pie

Prince Charles is isolating at Balmoral with Covid-19.

Prince Andrew is isolating at Windsor with Jenifer-14.

😛
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March 27, 2020 8:21am
- Wangas Feral
  
  I think I posted that yesterday – or at least a version of it 🙂
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, you did. I laughed.
    
    8 17
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    March 27, 2020 8:35am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      I laughed again as well at Maggie’s version.
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:02am
      - madamezucchininz
        
        Seems some didn’t but the down ticks 😉
        
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        March 27, 2020 9:26am
      - Salacious Crumb
        
        Then Mikey posted something. Nobody laughed.
        
        13 1
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        March 27, 2020 9:36am
  - cmm
    
    They’re getting younger….
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:03am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Me, I’m wondering what happened to Sophie 15…
      
      10 0
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      March 27, 2020 10:37am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Got to be careful there. Andrew’s sister-in-law is Sophie, but she is somewhat older than 15, more like 50+!
        
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        March 27, 2020 10:43am
      - cmm
        
        Too old. She way lying about here age. She was actually 16.
        
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        March 27, 2020 11:16am
MrTips

Dear diary

Day 2: hand sanitizer tastes like shit unless you mix it 1 part sanitizer/10 parts bourbon and coke. Titration is sometimes risky it would seem.

Have new afternoon drinking game. Scull every time Cindy says “adsoludely”, “condversation”, “kind”. Note: initial experience proves not for faint hearted or weak bladders.

Disturbing development consisting of naked Lime scooter riders flashing past house has arisen. Must ring local rest home and complain.

Finished Asterix books available. What now?
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March 27, 2020 8:23am
- cas
  
  If you added in fustrading, somethink, vunerable, terism etc you could be drunk all the time.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Our two top political leaders, Ardern and Bridges, have strong, and sometimes amusing, Kiwi accents. Is this really a problem? I have noticed that people noting ‘poverdy’, etc, rarely seems upset with ‘Soimon’, etc – why is that?
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:46am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Because the Left already go on at Simon for this endlessly. In fact call him stupid for it (talk about prejudice!)
      
      People here are just trying to re-establish the balance.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:46am
  - kevn
    
    @cas… Don’t forget ‘bin’, that word is used a lot.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:49am
- PhilBest
  
  youtube.com/watch?v=yUoK4mORJ9o
  
  Berel Solomon: 10 golden rules to be SUCCESSFUL during and after COVID-19.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:13am
Stu2

There was a Herald article on ICU beds and ventilators
– 153 ICU beds (80-90% in use)
– 330 more that could be usd for severe Corvid19 patients
– 520 ventilators, which included 237 anaesthetic ventilators
– in private hospitals, there were another 22 ICU beds, 24 ventilators and 194 anaesthetic machine ventilators, along with seven ventilators and eight transportable ones that could be sourced from elsewhere

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12319640
How do you paste a link?
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March 27, 2020 8:26am
Littletramp

It would be interesting to see the Covid 19 stats, with males aged over 80 with high blood pressure taken out of the death statistics. Data evidence that is becoming more compelling each day suggests we may have a very different view of the problem, and therefore devise a very different defence.
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March 27, 2020 8:26am
- kowtow
  
  The AM Show TV3 /Magicradio played Sinatra’s New York New York as a backgrounder to their being the new crisis epicentre.
  
  Pretty insensitive given the gravity of the situation.
  
  I doubt that level of levity would be displayed by a media party organisation in any other situation ie anti American sentiment is always acceptable.
  
  Or are they just dog shit ignorant?
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:44am
- Evadne
  
  The case fatality rates are almost certainly much much lower than the headline figures. Worldwide, most people reporting mild symptoms are not being tested, and have no option of being tested.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:44am
  - PhilBest
    
    The link posted on yesterday’s GD by Linda Reid is very informative. I’ve already put it in a comment today but I think it bears repeating every time someone raises the point you are raising.
    
    https://amgreatness.com/2020/03/19/dangerous-curves/
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:17am
Simon

Covid 19 coronavirus: Matthew Hooton – trust Jacinda Ardern to get us through

From NZ Herald.

Truly glorious.

Next 4 weeks is going to be what it was like living in East Germany.
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March 27, 2020 8:33am
- Ipanema69
  
  I would not worry to much about what anyone in the media currently thinks about the governments performance. The economic impact of the shutdown is only just starting to hit home.
  
  These realities will be readily apparent by September 19th and it wont be positive for the government.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:58am
  - Simon
    
    “The economic impact of the shutdown is only just starting to hit home.”
    
    Totally agree Comrade. Yep East Germany like economy well past 4 weeks.
    
    And don’t assume there is going to be an election this year.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:24am
  - kowtow
    
    Agreed. However despite what will be economic Armageddon ,the Media Party will still be pushing the St Jax saved thousand’s of lives theme very hard.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:00am
    - Ipanema69
      
      Hi Kowtow, yes its a good point that you raise.
      
      However I just don’t think that it will be enough.
      
      If the mortality rate on this thing turns out to be much lower than originally forecast (and I believe this will be the case) then whole response will begin to look over the top and poorly thought through.
      
      Additionally if the serology testing for the covid antibodies (only recently developed) demonstrates that a significant number of people have already been exposed and suffered no or only minor symptoms then the whole response starts to look ill-advised.
      
      The left leaning bias of the MSM notwithstanding there will eventually be a backlash. This event is no different to anything else in the media cycle, the worm will turn.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:29am
    - MrLovebucket
      
      Ardernageddon?
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  At least they are allowed to go out for a walk.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:27am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Hooten is high on Cindy kool aid.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:28am
  - Nickc2
    
    I have gone off Hooten, he won’t bight the hand that feeds him.
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:49pm
- Paulus
  
  How long – “only” 4 weeks – what a laugh !
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:46am
Ipanema69

We have nearly 300 COVID-19 cases in New Zealand. However as I understand it we have only 7 people in hospital and none who require intensive care.

If the mortality rate of this disease is the often quoted 2% to 3% range, why have their been zero deaths thus far?

Additionally why the hugely disparate mortality rates between various countries such as Germany & Italy?

It is hard not to conclude that there is at least some element of mass hysteria occurring worldwide and that decisions which have huge economic cost are being made on incomplete and inaccurate data.
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March 27, 2020 8:33am
- fernglas
  
  A lot depends on how they calculate the rate. In Italy, CV is given as the cause whenever it exists in the deceased and regardless of the extent to which other pre-existing conditions may have been responsible. AS I understand it, Germany does it differently and only puts down CV as the cause where it is the sole or principal cause.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:55am
  - MCos
    
    Back in the ‘80s when AIDS was rampant it was something else that finally killed the patient; pneumonia I believe. However the death was put down to AIDS.
    So if someone is a bad asthmatic, for example, contracts Covid-19 and dies, what is the cause of death? Asthma, pneumonia or Covid-19?
    I could imagine various countries, for their own reasons, would assign the death to whatever cause suits their preference.
    Here is a list of reported deaths from around the world. A couple of countries have a curious imbalance between reported infections and deaths viz South Africa & Qatar
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:34am
    - cmm
      
      Nobody ever directly dies of AIDS, Covid, other flus and similar, they always die of some secondary factor (pneumonia being a biggy).
      
      How it gets handled after that is an accounting issue.
      
      As in that wattsupwiththat link posted yesterday, almost all the Italians were already very ill with preexisitng conditions. In 48% of cases, people had 3 or more preexisting diseases.
      
      The Italians were already sliding off a greased perch.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:10am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      MCos, bit different with AIDS. Those were young, healthy people suddenly hit with incredibly low immunity. Without AIDS they could have had another 60 years.
      
      Not the same as old people with a serious heart condition or ruined lungs from smoking who really didn’t have long to live.
      
      Very interesting about how different countries are massaging the figures to suit them. MSM seems to massage the figures to look as dire as possible.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:56am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  We have 283 known Wuflu inffected, but several 1000’s in the community that we don’t know about yet (still incubating).
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:57am
  - PhilBest
    
    And as was pointed out by the article Linda Reid posted a link to yesterday, and I’ve already posted again on this thread: COVID-19 was almost certainly already out there and included in “flu, other” statistics before we even started tracking it. So there might be a lot more “recovered” people out there with antibodies than we realise, and the “curve” dynamics might be in a completely different place to what the gloomiest analysts are assuming.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:25am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Not a chance. 5% of known infections end up in ICU, there seem to be similar number of non-symptomatic infections that aren’t seen. Any significant numbers of infections numbering in 100’s would have produced very Wu-Flu distinctive viral pneumonias in hospital (that would be revealed in X-rays). And would have spread rapidly. Look at what is happening in New York as we speak.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:31am
      - Evadne
        
        But, in many places, the only “known” infections are the severe ones (ie. You have to be sufferingly badly before they will test you) Saying 5% of the severe cases are very severe is not a helpful or meaningful statistic.
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:13pm
      - PhilBest
        
        What is a “Wu-Flu distinctive viral pneumonia” that would have stood out in the early days as something that needed to go into statistics separately? In fact the article did show statistics for a spike in “Influenza Like Illness” mid January.
        
        “…The CDC tracks a category called “influenza-like illness,” or ILI. Since symptoms of the flu and coronavirus are very similar, it’s instructive to look at this data, which is based on visits to health care providers in all 50 states, Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico. “For this system, ILI is defined as fever (temperature of 100°F or greater) and a cough and/or a sore throat,” reads the CDC webpage on influenza-like illness.
        
        “What influenza-like illness is saying to us is that you have a virus likely affecting your respiratory system that is making you feel crummy and, currently aside from influenza, there aren’t good therapies for these other viruses, so we just treat the symptoms,” Dr. Michael Ison, a professor of infectious diseases at Northwestern University in Chicago, told WebMD.com in January. The underlying cause could be any number of undetected respiratory viruses.
        
        During the week of January 18, 2020, the number of people complaining of ILI started to spike dramatically. That week, nearly 90,000 Americans visited a health care provider with ILI symptoms; by the following week, that figure jumped to more than 107,000. For the next two weeks, into mid-February, the number stayed about the same. And that doesn’t include people with symptoms who didn’t see a doctor.
        
        During the same period, testing for influenza A and B also spiked. Positive tests for both flu strains began to climb during late January and plateaued in mid-February before declining. At its peak, about 20,000 people per week were diagnosed with influenza—but it also represented a positive rate of around 30 percent. That means lots of people were tested for the flu, had flu-like symptoms, but did not have the flu…”
        
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        March 27, 2020 1:28pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        As of last month CT scans were more reliable (90%) in revealing infections of WuFlu than the RT-PCR tests that give a lot of false negatives (60-70% reliable). That’s due to the typical wuflu ‘ground-glass’ and other features on lung x-rays. That might have changed since.
        https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200226151951.htm
        
        Hospitalized pneumonia patients still typically get chest x-rays as part of diagnostics that would have given strong evidence/suspicion of wuflu even when RT-PCR testing wasn’t being done.
        
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        March 27, 2020 3:06pm
  - Tall Man
    
    And testing is still only being done if there is a direct link to someone infected.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:16am
- Simon
  
  ” element of mass hysteria occurring worldwide and that decisions which have huge economic cost are being made on incomplete and inaccurate data.”
  
  Comrade these are dangerous thoughts. Stop thinking at once! All you are required to do is believe and do what the State tells you.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:58am
- Yvette
  
  In Italy apparently only 4% of the dead were under 60 years of age
  Of a sample of 355 Italians who had Covid-19 at death, only 1% had no other disease, a quarter (25%) had one other disease, close to a quarter (26%) had 2 ailments, and near half (48%) had 3 or more diseases.
  4,824 Italian health workers were Infected – one in ten of their coronavirus cases are health workers.
  Extended families tend to live in the one place.
  
  Maori and Pacifica may be more at similar risk, perhaps
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:07am
  - PhilBest
    
    Exactly! Italy’s demographics include that 25% of the population is over 64! Also, households often have both sets of elderly parents living under the same roof. And they smoke like chimneys. Another pre-existing co-mobidity that is particularly deadly, and apparently high in Italian victims, is hypertension.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:22am
    - Joely Doe
      
      Correlation is not causation…
      
      Recall that in the Framingham Heart Study, hypertension eventually developed in more than 90% of participants with a normal blood pressure at age 55 years. By 60 years of age, approximately 60% of the population has hypertension; by 70 years, about 65% of men and about 75% of women have hypertension.
      
      Everyone gets hypertension, eventually. Everyone.
      Except maybe 5-8% (for the nitpickers).
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:00am
      - PhilBest
        
        It’s still a “co-morbidity” that is relevant given that young people might have it, and old people might not have it.
        
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        March 27, 2020 1:30pm
  - Joely Doe
    
    4,824 Italian health workers were Infected – one in ten of their coronavirus cases are health workers.
    
    That single stat – 1 in 10 health workers infected, makes a case for the infections in many patients being nosocomial (hospital origin). So many of the Italian deaths have 2 or more co-morbidities, that they were likely to have been in and out of hospital prior to being diagnosed with Covid-19.
    It is therefore likely that this infection has been running rampant in the northern Italian hospitals for some time, well before the health workers knew what they were dealing with, and passing the infection on to vulnerable patients, themselves and their families. Once that happened, with the ‘close contact’ prevalent in Italian culture, spread was unavoidable.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Still early days…
  
  Lets hope the situation remains 0 deaths.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:18am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Slim hope. Worldwide with excellent treatment ~1.3% seem to die. So with 280 infected as of yesterday there are probably 3 who will die among them. And with long incubation times there are certainly more than a 1000 already infected in NZ and several times as many will be cross-infected during isolation with infected. We seem to be on track for 5-10000 cases in 2 weeks when lock-down should start to reduce new case numbers. With luck only 10’s rather than 100’s will die.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:42am
- PhilBest
  
  Don’t miss Ann Coulter’s anecdote about experts and risk assessment….
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/03/general_debate_27_march_2020.html/comment-page-1#comment-2668566
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:19am
- notreadyet
  
  As I understand it it isthought that the virus got into the Italian medical staff early in the piece and qiickly transfered to all the high users, older people with other underlying conditions, regularily visiting their doctors and now it has cleaned them all out
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:22am
- Melbury
  
  It takes about 3 weeks to die, so hard to draw conclusions when case numbers are changing rapidly.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:25am
- rangitoto
  
  Possibly the disease hasn’t spread to the older age group in NZ yet. That’s where the highest mortality rate is found.
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:51pm
- Nutta
  
  Because the Health system is not yet overwhelmed. Sadly, just wait…
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:59pm
Tony Stuart

The RNZ story about the shortage of protective gowns for health workers (see the link in Mr Tips’ 8.14am comment above) reinforces the need for a comprehensive and independent inquiry into the Government’s response to COVID-19 when everything is done and dusted.

And I suspect Dr David Clark would not emerge from such an inquiry with his reputation intact. He has now presided over three crises (Meningococcal disease, Measles and COVID-19) where the Government appears to have been too slow to react. Once is understandable, twice is exceedingly careless, and thrice should be “Don’t come Monday”.
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March 27, 2020 8:39am
- Simon
  
  Hundreds of billions poured into health over the years. This aint due to one clown show minister.
  
  The whole system is rotten and an utter shell game.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:26am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Labour measure success by % increase in union employee wages, not health outcomes.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:37am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Actually NZ seriously underfunds the health system, and it has been under serious stress for some time. It is no surprise that we are short of emergency supplies, if you are short of funds, what comes first ? Treating current patients or stocking up for a possible future contingency that may or may not happen?
    
    So they skimped on emergency preparation, as almost all sincere and caring medical staff would, regardless of how bad that might look in the future.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:37am
Captain Mainwaring

Beautiful timing by Genesis on day one of the lockdown to advise me that my monthly fixed charge is going up by over $60 even though I’m nearly $300 in credit.
They clearly didn’t get the memo about ‘we’re all in this together’. Completely wipes out the winter energy payment.
If Cindy can put the clampers on landlords why can’t she do the same to power companies?
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March 27, 2020 8:40am
- Blackbob
  
  Gotta pay for those eco -loon ads they do somehow.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:55am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Thats why I bought shares in GNE MCY MEL when they IPOed. I figured that at least I would get a dividend and capital gain from their price gouging. Now all are well down from their January peak ( as is all stocks) but still well above the price I paid.
  
  My late Dear old Dad taught me to buy stocks in good companies that you consume their goods and services. That way you get a win win.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:10am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Disclaimer: this is not my business.
  
  Call Fast Connect on 0800 88 55 99 – they are in the utility connection space, and have (I believe) done a deal with one or two of the bigger energy companies to help people by switching them to a better plan.
  
  Switching is very easy, they do it for you and it costs you nothing. They have a website too.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The handout from the COL is very alluring to power companies–money from on high. A common commercial practice: where there’s a subsidy fix the price to absorb it.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:32am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Genesis answered the phone on the first ring this morning (and working from home). I was able to negotiate leaving the payment where it is and if I go to far into debit during the winter I can adjust it then.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:54am
oldpark

Some come running . Not so long ago NZs farming industry was virtually classed as antideluvian by Labour/Greens / NZ First in some instances .
The mentioned trio had the Greta disease of some type of myth that could affect the well being of NZs in the next Century .
That type of Greta Virus permeated the whole of NZ . NZs MSM also helped put the boot in .

Infact we has some of our classroom teachers singling out the children of the Farming community and virtually ostrasizing them claiming their parents were destroying NZ and the Planet .
Now because of the Coronavirus destroying NZ Tourist industry almost overnight NZs farming industry are back where they belong . Yes the backbone of NZ economy are once more seen as the Saviours of NZs economy and well being . With no thanks to the present Regime Lab/Green/NZ First in some instances .
Who would have believed it, just a short time ago Coal and Farming Products were seen by our Politicians and MSM media as outdated .
Yes now they are promoting Coal and our Dairy Exports as the only game in town . After all what else is there to keep the good ship NZ hitting the rocks .
Even maybe, just maybe, Peters selected PM Ardern might once more revisit her dastardly decision to end oil and gas exploration in Taranaki
with what is now causing so much grief and angst in NZ over the possible destruction of NZs way of life and Economy .Miracles are breaking out all over the Nation with no thanks to the Greta Virus Global warming myth supporters many of them who will have to think again . Coronavirus will be a good wake up call, it is here and now ,not something that may or may not happen on the Twelvth of Never.
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March 27, 2020 8:43am
- calendar girl
  
  Sadly, the oil & gas explorers won’t be coming back in the time of our generation.
  
  Ardern and Peters’ government ensured that New Zealand cannot be trusted as a ‘safe haven’ for major risk capital investment.
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:10am
emmess

I was just listening to the War Room Pandemic podcast
Steve Bannon said this will be talked about for decades, he compared it to Plague of Justinian among other pandemics.
That got me thinking, I am sure that Justinian cannot be held responsible as President Xi Jinping can for this mess, given what we know about modern medicine.
Should we be calling it ‘The virus of Xi’?
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March 27, 2020 8:43am
- PhilBest
  
  Pat Condell sure knows how to wind up the Chinese…and Xi in particular
  
  “The Virus that Shames China”
  
  youtube.com/embed/NRD-9-STnvQ
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:29am
- Ed Snack
  
  Unlike the world in Justinian’s time, we have the ability to create a vaccine, and possibly also a cure or prophylactic treatment.
  
  Unless this CV mutates and remains dangerous, a vaccine will eventually stifle it and reduce it to a nuisance rather than an outstanding threat.
  
  Or at least, so I hope and believe.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:40am
  - emmess
    
    Yeah, it is a bit tough on old Justinian.
    He has had his name tainted for millenia for something that he had no control over.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:40am
Brian McDonald

Just a word amongst the moaning about a couple who are Doctors, 1 an immigrant, another the child of self-made immigrants who got their son a top education as they worked a small business.
Right now the parents are both working I assume long hours in the public health system (probably on different shifts and certainly in different hospitals) and their ‘bubble’ is their own home – however they’ve needed to shift their children to the safety of the grandparents ‘bubble.’
There will be 1000s of other New Zealanders doing such work now whether is driving delivery trucks, processing food, or watching the streets to see that there is compliance.
As in the time of warfare, we have much to be grateful to others for. There will be those on here supporting older parents or relations, playing the game with the new regulations as their part of holding the rope.
To the couple, the 10s of 1000s of helpers and those holding the rope – a salute.
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March 27, 2020 8:56am
- mark15
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52058013
  Clap for carers
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y
  
  Clap for quarantine breakers
  
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  March 27, 2020 2:27pm
Gravelroad

How many on here really believe this – honestly?
That 80,000 New Zealanders could die?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120604818/new-model-shows-coronavirus-could-kill-80000-kiwis-without-lockdown
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March 27, 2020 8:56am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Me. But way more than 80000.
  
  Once you get up to 0.5-1% infected (eg New York, Northern Italy) you just can’t stop it and eradication is impossible. People still need to eat, quarantining logistics can’t keep up after a month or two and lockdown fails as supply chain falls apart and it becomes just a matter of time until everyone is exposed.
  
  Govt has to get on top of quarantine coordination and logistics in a way that they have shown no signs of or competence in doing or the lockdown won’t work.
  
  It is in the last week or two of epidemic (which if it takes off is still months away) that more than half of all deaths will occur. Average human’s just can’t wrap their minds about how fast the crisis will build and how huge it will get.
  
  I am beginning to doubt NZ’s poorly organised lock-down will be sufficient to get on top of it.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:28am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Actually, compared to most countries, the New Zealand lockdown looks particularly well organised.
    
    For instance, way better than Australia. And vastly superior to the US, though to be fair in the case of the US, NZ is more like a middle size state, say Oregon.
    
    So it should be easier here, and in fact is.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:10am
    - cmm
      
      The biggest hole is that they are not isolating ALL people coming in from elsewhere.
      
      And by ISOLATED I mean ISOLATED. Put ewvery single one on an army base or whatever, nobody goes anywhere until they have been clean for 2 weeks.
      
      There are huge numbers of infected people in those people still arriving and they are being put straight into the community to interact with the community.
      
      If people are in their lockdown bubbles then the major risk of getting contaminated is going to supermarkets where people are touching things on shelves etc. If infected people are going into supermarkets then uninfected people in their lockdowns are picking up COVID from them.
      
      We need that to stop. No infected, or potentially infected (new arrival etc), person should be going into supermarkets.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:34am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I agree. It appears that we are still prepared to tolerate bringing the virus into NZ at some level. There is enough here already, we can stop importing it now. All arrivals should be quarantined for 14 days. Not joining some bubble or self-isolating.
        
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        March 27, 2020 10:46am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Following the lead of other countries who are now in dire trouble is what got us to this terrible state. We have to think for ourselves and do a better job than they (and we) have in the here and now. NZ govt is leaving gaping holes for transmission – particularly around grocery supplies by providing environments where thousands of people will mix. The virus lasts on surfaces for several days. Being lax on that potential vector for infection just wastes the expense and hassle of lockdown which could otherwise be highly effective at eradication.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:57am
    - Jack5
      
      As Wayne Mapp points out, NZ’s political system makes it easier to organise a lockdown.
      
      No federal layers, no upper house in Parliament, no presidential-style executive layer above the MPs.
      
      Add to that we have the stability of a constitutional monarchy without the expense and presence of a monarch, and without the constitutional powers of a monarch. Our faux monarchy is ceremonial, but a lot cheaper than a republican presidency, and without its political clutter.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:06am
    - Tall Man
      
      Watch this weekend. When they go, they do go hard.
      
      ardern on the other hand thinks saying is doing.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:27am
  - cmm
    
    I’ll believe 80,000 infected or even 1M infected, but not 80000 deaths. That just does not pass the sniff test.
    
    Less than 10% of our population is 75+, so we’d have to believe that about 20% of them would die.
    
    Sorry, I’m not buying a bridge today.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:42am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Once hospitals are (quickly) overwhelmed the death rate exceeds 5%, including 3% of younger adults who wind up in ICU at the moment. 70% or more of population will be infected in an out-of-control epidemic before herd immunity arrests it. that is up to 180k dead.
      
      We need this lockdown to work to reset the counter to near zero to buy us more time before the next lock-down is needed, our economic ability to do lockdowns will eventually be exhausted.
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:05am
  - Tall Man
    
    Rubbish.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Theoretically, we are on target to hit 1 million positives by 19 April.
  
  (but because we self-isolating, we shouldn’t reach that target now)…
  
  with a death rate from this virus of 1% then 10,000 of that first million would succumb.
  
  But the death rate has been running up to 2% in some countries.
  
  With limited access to medical facilities and rampant transmission of the virus through the country then I reckon 80,000 dead within the next year was a real possibility.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    How did you figure that million out Maggy?
    
    The article on the 80,000 was pure hysteria and it was irresponsible for Herald to publish it.
    
    This smacks of the sea level rise fear mongering: 20cm doesn’t scare them, so say 1 metre, no wait, say 2 metres.
    
    Herald should not be publishing such inflammatory “information” unless they have had it peer reviewed etc. Such “information” has huge negative side effects (including increasing the risk of non-compliance).
    
    The Spanish Flu killed 9000 out of a smaller population (say 2 million), so 25,000 in today’s terms. That was without the benefit of modern medicine.
    
    80,000 would require a death rate 16,000 per million. That is something like 120x what Italy has experienced so far.
    
    Remember that the Italian numbers are “died with” numbers rather than “died from” numbers, thus they don’t scale up easily.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:26am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Where did Cindy get her estimate of deaths in the tens of thousands then?
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:48am
      - cmm
        
        10,000 didn’t seem to work, nor did 20, or 50, or 60.
        
        80? Naah
        
        Tomorrow 100k.
        
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        March 27, 2020 1:31pm
    - greybeard
      
      I agree with you, and in fact said the same thing in yesterday’s GD.
      Appalling article.
      
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      March 27, 2020 10:50am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      How did you figure that million out Maggy?</i.
      
      That's the current trend of our covid-19 positives.
      
      Plot our confirmed positives on a time axis and extrapolate out
      (use a log scale – x axis)
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:17am
      - cmm
        
        Exponentiation works fine so long as there is an unlimited supply of new bodies to infect.
        
        As there become more and infected people, the number of people that can still be infected becomes smaller and thus the number tapers off.
        
        Unbounded exponentiation is:
        
        y = a e^k
        
        But the real curve is closer to:
        
        y = a e^(k * (1-N/P))
        
        Where N = number infected and P is the total infectable population (which is way smaller than the population).
        
        This is sometimes called the S curve.
        
        When you start out, N is zero (this is the zero in the R0 number) and it is pure exponentiation. As N goes up, the rate goes down because it is getting harder to find more people to infect.
        
        When N = P (ie everyone that can be infected has been infected) then (1 – N/P) becomes zero, so k * (1-N/P) becomes zero, so the rate drops to zero (ie. the curve has hit a maximum).
        
        I agree 100% that now we’re still way down in part of the graph that looks very exponential, but when we start talking about over 100,000 cases we’re getting deep into the top part of the S.
        
        Unfortunately we have no idea et what those numbers are.
        
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        March 27, 2020 12:46pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        cmm
        Thank god, at the moment, there does not appear any reinfection( of the recovered).
        Then there is potential to be exponential.
        
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        March 27, 2020 1:37pm
      - cmm
        
        RW: Early days yet.
        
        Basically early days, therefore heaps of noise in the data and also lots of different models pointing in different directions.
        
        As time moves on (and the data smooths) we will see more convergence.
        
        THis does not make what-iffing unhelpful. What-iffing is important to strategise for various possibilities. But we must expect what-iffing to be wrong and often contradictory in the early days at least.
        
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        March 27, 2020 2:23pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I agree with you Maggie and therefore the London School of Medicine.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:05am
- Loddenthinks
  
  A model you say? No doubt put together by the same brilliant minds that do the “climate” models, and in all likelihood every bit as accurate!
  
  19 3
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  March 27, 2020 9:49am
  - PhilBest
    
    I too believe neither the Climate models or the “80,000 NZ deaths” model. Even the 1% or 2% fatalities estimates are missing that COVID-19 was out there for several weeks buried in “flu, other” statistics before tracking of it started. The so-called “first case” in the US, NZ, wherever, was certainly not the first. It was the first specifically identified.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:10am
- Poppa
  
  Not me…that is just rubbish
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Too many numbers, too little sense. Where’s the responsibility for engendering fear without adequate reason.
  The greater the concern the greater the care required to present an opinion or supposed fact.
  
  Viruses should not be political.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:37am
- MrTips
  
  Repost on this from last night: our numbers are unreliable.
  
  Shaun Hendy is a Professor of Physics – not infectious diseases. And no, knowing maths is not a valid answer to that problem. I smell rampant selection bias in his numbers.
  
  Just the same as not all accountants can count (cf. Don Brash) not all mathematicians can model, appropriately.
  
  Our usual death rate is 30,000-35,000 p.a.
  To lose 80,000 people in one year is, to my mind, an unjustifiable calculation. It would take a complete health system failure, no medical staff, Green party witch doctors only scenario for that number to be attained.
  
  One strongly suspects Hendy et al. have applied a 2% flat death rate to 4M people. Given that the 2% death rate hypothesised to date is only valid for KNOWN cases, it doesn’t stand up. The true case death rate is likely to be closer to 0.2-0.5% which means 8000-20,000 deaths. John Ioannidis, who knows a lot more than Hendy, makes this very point, amount others. https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/
  
  Still not chicken feed but more believable in NZ terms. Hyperbole reigns at the moment, from disaster prediction to population control messaging.
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:06am
- MCos
  
  Back in 1918 the Spanish flu killed 0.7% of the population (22% in Samoa)
  That extrapolates out to 37,500 of our present day population.
  There’s no telling how many NZers would be infected if Covid-19 went unchecked. Personally I don’t want to find out.
  Do some people have natural immunity?
  Then there seems to be all sorts of figures as to the percentage of those infected die.
  Worst case scenario, everyone is infected (which seems unlikely) and 2-3% die.
  That’s a lot of people.
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:14pm
emmess

Does any know is New Zealand did the same thing?

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/03/25/canada-gave-away-medical-equipment-to-china-before-facing-shortages/

If so are we likely to face the same problems?
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March 27, 2020 8:56am
- kowtow
  
  “We” gave $11 mil to Fiji for seas that aren’t rising. That woudda bought a lot of medical equipment.
  
  When all this is over and our economy struggles to revive I hope to never hear another word about carbon credits , zero carbon etc
  
  And instead of growing trees on good arable land to farm credits perhaps some credit could be given to our much maligned farmers for the great service they do society by providing us with the essentials of life.
  
  They too are “front line” workers ………
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:42am
- rangitoto
  
  The Australian office of a Chinese construction company bought up large quantities of medical supplies and shipped them back to China.
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-backed-company-s-mission-to-source-australian-medical-supplies-20200325-p54du8.html
  
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  March 27, 2020 1:22pm
Prince

‘We’re all in this together’ doesn’t seem to extend to Landlords or Employers.
Ardern wants to take names of Landlords who need investigation. I imagine many of the disaffected, angry, non-paying vandals will be busy.
Unions feeding the media with daily claims of bad employers.
I doubt the value of attacking those providing work and housing to the ‘most vulnerable’ at the moment, but I guess the socialists are playing the long game.
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March 27, 2020 8:56am
- kowtow
  
  I see the Hoorald included those two untermenscen classes in the gubmint warning over don’t try to profit from this .
  
  And where exactly do the ruling political parties stand in that ?
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:45am
- Paulus
  
  Ardern wants to know which Landlord she needs to sort out as she said yesterday from a question from guess who – Tova, whom she personally thanked.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:51am
lastmanstanding

Politicians have a saying “Never let a crisis go to waste”

And here and elsewhere we are seeing an over reach under the guise of ‘protecting” us.

History has shown that laws and regulations once enacted are seldom repealed.

An example. When Winston Churchill was appointed Prim Minister for the second time he found there was a statute that appointed a man to Beachy Head to light a fire warning of the French invasion. The law had been in place then for 15o years.

I will await with interest to see if ALL the legislation and regulation is repealed in total after the crisis passes.
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March 27, 2020 8:59am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I heard this story some years ago, but could not find a source for it. Do you have a reference?
  
  2 6
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  March 27, 2020 9:58am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    MMA There are a number of supposed sources but the one I always favour as the true one was Winston Churchill when he was working to form the United Nations after WWII he said, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.
    
    It sounds like a Churchillian statement.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:49am
Paul Marsden

Does anyone know if the Patent Office is still receiving/processing, patent applications?
3 5
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March 27, 2020 9:01am
- MCos
  
  Ring them up.
  
  6 0
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  March 27, 2020 9:39am
emmess

Sign and share the petition to fire Dr Tedros from the corrupt WHO
https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-call-for-the-resignation-of-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-who-director-general/psf/promote_or_share
11 5
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March 27, 2020 9:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No, I won’t.
  
  1 17
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  March 27, 2020 10:06am
  - emmess
    
    Why not?
    
    1 2
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    March 27, 2020 11:00am
brett68

If you want to see sycophantic fawning in all its glory

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/

This Reddit has 222k thousand members, btw.

It’s so over the top I’m not sure if it’s genuine or part of the Ardern reelection campaign.
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March 27, 2020 9:12am
Littletramp

Is there any chance that export markets could stop taking some of the meat and fruit product from NZ? Could we see local prices through the supermarket monopolies come back to supply and demand levels for some good quality produce? That would be a bright spot during a tough time.
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March 27, 2020 9:14am
- septic skeptic
  
  I don’t hold out much hope for cheaper prices through the supermarkets. My local Countdown has removed all specials. On a usual day I would say about 75% of the products on any isle are on special. So that’s a big price increase on day one of the lockdown.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:56am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Just been to PaknSave Albany She Who Must be Obeyeds favoured supermarket. Very few people so easy to keep distance. Still out of flour and rice. Staff busy restocking. My favourite beer and wine still at usual special prices. Perspex screens and staff were masks and gloves. Everyone shopping keeping away from each other and being polite letting you get to stock. Will continue usual weekly shop and hope the Hoarding Morons get the message and Keep Calm and Carry On as per WW2 slogan.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:54am
  - Nickc2
    
    I should be the last person on earth to side with Countdown but you will invariably find that Specials are hard to move items or those that are at or nearing their Use-by-Dates.
    I guess given the rapid turnover of items during our Lock Down, they seldom if ever reach their Use-by-Dates hence the lack of specials.
    My major conflicts with my closest Countdown is pointing out items that are past their Use-by-Date.
    
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    March 27, 2020 1:41pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Where is the plan for making supermarket groceries safely available to the public during the lockdown? Did govt put no thought into setting up essential logistics? (as appears to be the case).

For this lockdown to be effective they have to get customers out of shops and supermarkets entirely, 24 hour operation of supermarkets with click and collect is needed. Extra collection facilities in carparks, Minimum staff numbers in supermarkets at all times – careful isolation and testing of them to ensure no spread of disease. Ramped up home deliveries for those who lack mobility.

Increased staff to do this now.

Call for (paid) volunteers from amongst adults without dependents to organise the considerable logistics challenges of lockdown should have gone out at start of all this.

Training up additonal emergency health care staff, boosting ICU beds by whatever means avaialable

Also rental of suitable vehicles (utes and vans) for logistics

Better planning for managing all other problems at community level – policing lockdown etc, setting up and coordinating comprehensive community communications arrangements, checking everyone is ok and ensuring that essential needs are still being addressed, even coordinating outdoors time for kids while maintaining isolation.

What the fuck were they doing in the 6 weeks leading up to this when it was so obvious this was where we were headed?

Govt late to game as usual.
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March 27, 2020 9:16am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Getting ready for the Christchurch Huggathon. Priorities. There is an election this year.. Oh is there a virus, never mind, Clarke will sort it. He is so good at that sort of stuff. Now where’s the next photoshoot, Darling my Hijab please….
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:11am
- oldfella
  
  No, no, no, Cindy went hard and fast to sort out this crisis. I heard her say it. Why would she lie to us?
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:50pm
- Nutta
  
  Six weeks? This issue was being reported pre Christmas!
  
  There is plenty of food in NZ, but we won’t be able to access it.
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:10pm
lifesgood

Matthew Hooten appears to have fallen desperately in love with Jacinda. As far as he is concerned she is the saviour of the Nation. Why does National Radio always introduce him as “from the right” What tosh, he runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds and will say whoever pays him the most to say it.
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March 27, 2020 9:16am
- sooty
  
  but then he has a history of weirdo,
  He’s mates with Liala Harre, you know the star trek uniform lady of the fat crims.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:58am
- MrTips
  
  Hooten has “recalibrated” again since his departure from NBR and Stephen Joyce kicking his arse. I’m sure Matthew loves to be reminded how close to defamatory proceedings he came.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:13am
- tf78
  
  You’d have laughed (as I did) a couple of nights ago a bloke phoned sports talk and said how lucky we are to have a PM with a “scientific background”, he was deadly serious – I couldn’t believe my ears. Some people are truly deluded with her master ship of all things human.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:19am
  - Swifty
    
    The science of flour and water batters?
    
    The science of deep-fryer cooking?
    
    The science of the uses of sodium in cookery?
    
    The science of keeping food warm using newsprint?
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:41am
    - Nickc2
      
      and a PhD in bovine excretion.
      
      7 0
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      March 27, 2020 1:28pm
      - david
        
        Too right,
        
        Piled higher and Deeper
        
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        March 27, 2020 5:15pm
davidp

So it is illegal to loiter outside with friends. You’ll be arrested. Unless you are vigilantes setting up and manning a roadblock on a state highway. In which case the police will support your efforts to spread disease to each other, your families, and the traveling public who you stop for interrogation and amateur virus-testing.
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March 27, 2020 9:23am
- JibberJabber
  
  Kinda ironic now that most law-abiding citizens are staying home, the cops have returned to the beat.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:32am
- Paulus
  
  Currently a police car is parked outside a house down the road where there are a number of cars parked nearby – not a gang house.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:54am
  - davidp
    
    I’ve just got back from Countdown and the only people I came in close contact with were the two Police who were loitering in the entrance way so you had to squeeze by them.
    
    Police themselves are protected by the magical anti-virus bubble that allows them to be in close proximity to each other without risk. But what if they’re infecting the public? I don’t want to be one of Ardern’s tens of thousands of dead because the police infected me.
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:07pm
rightoverlabour

Any idea what to do if you get a puncture and need a wheel fixed or replaced? Is the AA operational?For those who cycle, are bicycle shops available?

Who ever determined the list of “essential services” has no fucking idea. Canada has a much better regime on this, even though their PM is a bigger twat than Jacinda.

And I still think she is effing useless. Acted too slowly to close the borders and close the schools. Then institutes the biggest crack down on freedom since Stalin. Fuck her.
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March 27, 2020 9:25am
- cmm
  
  They had months to figure out these definitions.
  
  Bloody useless.
  
  17 1
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  March 27, 2020 10:12am
- Loddenthinks
  
  If you’re a member of the AA you will have already received updates about the service.
  
  The short answer is Yes, with some conditions as you’d expect.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:50am
- Ed Snack
  
  Yes, AA is open with restrictions
  
  8 0
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  March 27, 2020 10:55am
- MCos
  
  Pro tip
  If you want to manufacture some sort of shock, horror beat up against someone you despise, do a wee bit of research first.
  
  Happened to me all the time.
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:55pm
Cobolt24

Westpac forecasts unemployment will climb by 200,000 which is approximately 7 percent of the workforce.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120613593/westpac-forecasts-unemployment-will-climb-by-200000
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March 27, 2020 9:32am
- burt
  
  So not much worse than any other historic multi term Labour government.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:48am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The worst thing about that…there is no underlying strength in the economy to recover from that.
  Tourism 2nd largest business, stuffed for years
  Manufacturing, heavily reliant on Labour. stuffed
  Support services to all industries…..stuffed
  etc etc
  The annoying thing, they were being adversely impacted by this clown car govt. BEFORE Covid19.
  Familiar???
  We were in “technical recession” 1 yr BEFORE the GFC.
  and
  The cupboard was bare at the end of 2008.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:41am
  - Cobolt24
    
    At the end of all of this, government debt to GDP is expected to soar to around 50%. It was still going to go up regardless of Covid19
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:29pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  If it’s that low be thankful.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:43am
Stu2

Number one with a bullet – the USA has more cases than Italy or Spain, about to pass China
7 2
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March 27, 2020 9:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  “USA, USA, USA!”
  
  3 18
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  March 27, 2020 10:08am
- Tall Man
  
  Then why are the deaths stats so much lower?
  
  6 2
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  March 27, 2020 11:36am
  - MCos
    
    Why does South Africa supposedly have 927 infected people & no deaths?
    
    3 0
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    March 27, 2020 1:00pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Maybe the deaths are being recorded as deaths from a co-morbidity like HIV?
      
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      March 27, 2020 1:37pm
burt

Someone with good access to parliament records and news media should do a timeline of the messages given to the public and the govt actions for covid-19. If we did this starting from early January through till now I think we’d see a pretty big event in mid march was in control of most decision making.
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March 27, 2020 9:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s a start…
  
  https://shorthand.radionz.co.nz/coronavirus-timeline/index.html
  
  keep a copy..
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:25am
KevO'Brien

Is the world closure an overreaction?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/12-experts-question-covid-19-panic
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March 27, 2020 9:46am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No.
  
  3 9
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  March 27, 2020 10:27am
  - Tall Man
    
    That confirms it for me. mikey’s for it so we know it’s wrong.
    
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    March 27, 2020 11:38am
Joely Doe

Why are so many journalists clamouring for a police state?
Because the overwhelming majority of journalists identify as lefties?
Just throwing it out there.
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March 27, 2020 9:55am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Hoping they won’t be restricted if they play nice and don’t say anything bad about them.
  
  An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
  
  Winston Churchill
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:35am
- Tall Man
  
  Cos they’re dumb.
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:38am
tavita

Just think, if nz had had better border screening and quarentine from the beginning we could probably have stopped the virus getting in and all this would be unnecessary. We wouldn’t have had an excuse to play dictator.
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March 27, 2020 9:56am
- lifesgood
  
  But, but, but, there were important things to do, like trips to Fiji to splash our cash and the Muslim massacre to parade at. I’m bloody furious with our government. They missed their chance and thousands upon thousands made their way into NZ unscreened when we already knew the dangers. I simply cannot believe the mentality of the morons who are saying Jacinda has done a wonderful job…what bull dust!
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:16am
  - kevn
    
    @life… Yes, things didn’t get moving until after the planned/unwanted ChCh hugfest fell over.
    
    12 1
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    March 27, 2020 10:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There is a strong suspicion that the virus was well underway before the world became aware of it. When it got into some elderly groups who were naturally already compromised and the Chinese who had a genetically more vigorous expression of it the alert was sounded. Was it helped by the head of the WHO having been a former finance adviser to China? The smell of politics is strong. Where did the fear come from–out of the WHO?
  
  Left to its own we may have only had the usual or a bit stronger flu season. The grand close down when the virus is already silently spreading is little assurance of avoidance and could assist concentration.
  It’s the elderly who need the protection. They’re good at isolation anyway.
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:24pm
  - tf78
    
    The only trouble I can see is that after the lock down period and everyone gets back to normal the virus will still be floating around out there and people who have been locked up won’t have any immunity at all and are likely to fall down pretty quickly in vast numbers. I think maybe Boris’s initial reaction may have been the best.
    
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    March 27, 2020 1:03pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    First known patient in Wuhan 17th November. At rate of spread seen everywhere else that means >10000 infected (no steps taken to reduce spread) by mid Jan, though Chinese claim there were only about 100 infected at that point (the miracle of Wuhan). Reality is that China had probably a million or more infected and 10’s of thousands dead.
    
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    March 27, 2020 9:02pm
rightoverlabour

Viva Italia.. I think top plod would love to do this too… https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-mayors-lockdown-covid-19-video-a9422166.html
I love the way Italian politicians have a way of expressing things. Can you imagine Jacinda swearing like this… ( so my language here is a cultural thing, understand?)
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March 27, 2020 10:00am
surfing

Getting confused with the message coming from the government.

Mike Bush says you can use your car to drive somewhere to exercise…. so long as it is local ie, someone who lives on the other side of Tauranga can drive across town to Mount Maunganui main beach for a walk?

According to Mike Bush , yes! But I have a problem with this as it allows the virus to travel .
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March 27, 2020 10:08am
- RW Capitalist
  
  You cannot leave the district.
  What is their definition of a district?
  We don’t know.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I think they are trying to administer this under Civil Defence law which is a far stretch.
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:26pm
- cmm
  
  The virus can only travel a few millimetres by itself, maybe 2metres with coughing, so any travel more than 2m is helping it to travel.
  
  The rules are not as important as the explanation for WHY the rules are needed. If it all makes sense (rather than just threats) then reasonable people will comply.
  
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  March 27, 2020 2:15pm
rightoverlabour

Watch this space… Summer might be a bit shitty in the NH this year

https://electroverse.net/shiveluch-volcano-explodes-into-the-stratosphere/
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March 27, 2020 10:15am
- alex Masterley
  
  Woohoo, thats a biggie.
  There have been some decent explosions on the Kamchatka Penninsular as well as the aleutians this last 12 months.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:54am
- Inandout
  
  Greta will not be amused..how dare it.
  
  11 1
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  March 27, 2020 11:22am
BananaLlama

Agree with the commentators that our government and its state apparatus are going mad with power. The entire country is cheering for it though so not much you can do. Just have to wait for the hang over to kick in.
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March 27, 2020 10:16am
- Miritu
  
  Time will change people’s minds. If curfews are still in place 1-2 months from now, then more of a backlash. By then the state could go full retard with suppression etc., they have the means. Need to be vigilant.
  
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  March 27, 2020 10:40am
- kowtow
  
  I’ve posted this on the other Virus story , but Cactus Kate calls it .
  
  https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2020/03/when-will-nz-borders-open-again-sir.html
  
  5 2
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  March 27, 2020 11:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I have to agree with Cactus Kate.
    There will always be risk. What about when the current 4 weeks of lock down expires? We all put our heads outside again and say welcome to the lurking virus? If the kids were all at school now they would be dealing with it and their families. Most would never know they even had it.
    
    Grandpa/Grandma? (I’m in that category.) Some of us are expiring any anyway from other hazards like blood pressure, kidneys, diabetes, cancers… Taking the usual precautions will make small difference to the outcome. Stopping people going to work though has a much greater impact. Closing down businesses cuts future hope. Printing money is no panacea, it’s not really free. Muldoon is remembered for his harsh times as he fought to stop prices going to the sky. We are bringing the aggressive risk of hyperinflation by payout for the close down.
    The number of lives lost through the economic hazards may exceed those saved by forced isolation. We have natural attrition each year, we don’t un-natural demolition of our hard won economy.
    
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    March 27, 2020 12:53pm
- surfing
  
  It is a one-off event so all good. I’m gonna keep calm and carry on.
  
  I’d like clearer isolation rules though. Government should accept questions from the public , answer them, and develop a level 4 protocol document. One that all agencies follow. So if a cop says you are doing something illegal, you can pull out the government guide and correct them.
  
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  March 27, 2020 2:06pm
- Cunningham
  
  What do you suggest? Let the virus run rampant and completely smash our health system?
  
  2 3
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  March 27, 2020 2:50pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Government already let the Vrius run rampant because they are incompetent and can’t even police the borders.
    Rather chance an immunity than live like a slave every time there is an outbreak.
    
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    March 27, 2020 3:35pm
  - Tall Man
    
    It’s already here and the lockdown is designed to restrict rather than eliminate.
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:52pm
RW Capitalist

Sent EMail to MBIE re “essential business”, I supply traceability services to Pharmacies, 12:45pm yesterday. Got auto reply about how busy they are. Still don’t have an answer.
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March 27, 2020 10:18am
- Paul Marsden
  
  Neither have I. Meantime, with winter knocking on our door, I have clients around NZ putting some real pressure on me
  
  4 1
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  March 27, 2020 10:31am
- cmm
  
  Just do it. You know it is the right thing.
  
  7 0
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  March 27, 2020 11:19am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    TSK TSK…waiting to see if I get arrested?
    
    3 1
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    March 27, 2020 11:31am
    - Tall Man
      
      You won’t.
      
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      March 27, 2020 5:47pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Email/ring your local MP
  email the PM
  
  I don’t think they are working today.
  
  6 1
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  March 27, 2020 11:29am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Local MP….Chris (the useless git) Hipkins
    Jacinda (I am at most a smiley face) Ardern
    That’s your best suggestion?
    
    7 1
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    March 27, 2020 11:33am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      I have better terms for Hipkins…. But I’ll get a life time ban and the Oberstleutnants will be at my door. ( Love this site. so may terms to use for our plod these days )
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_ranks_of_Nazi_Germany
      
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      March 27, 2020 11:52am
  - Swifty
    
    Have our MPs volunteered to take a pay cut yet?
    
    9 1
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    March 27, 2020 12:36pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Pay” implies work. I prefer to regard it as a “payoff” for supporting the dictatorship of “what’s in it for wynston” fronted by the ____.
      
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      March 27, 2020 5:51pm
RW Capitalist

Some wisdom, from a wise man.

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

Winston Churchill
Q: Where was this attitude…BEFORE this disease got here?

To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day.

Winston Churchill

9 years of building from the rubble of helen clark
destroyed by a few days of impetuous and ridiculous decision making from a SLG.

If the Almighty were to rebuild the world and asked me for advice, I would have English Channels round every country. And the atmosphere would be such that anything which attempted to fly would be set on fire.

Winston Churchill
We had the whole of Tasman sea and weeks of advanced warning and she still let it in.
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March 27, 2020 10:27am
Tauhei Notts

This lock down is making life boring. So boring that I have even tried to watch shows on TV2.
I had never ever realised that channel two caters solely for airheads. Their target audience seems to be pre pubescent females, but taking into account that that demographic has no money, I am puzzled.
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March 27, 2020 10:45am
- Batman
  
  That demographic has a special talent for getting money out of their parents…
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  All NZ TV channels cater for airheads – always did.
  Watch the News and you will see what I mean. All Jancinda speak, waffle waffle anf tell you nothing
  
  13 2
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  March 27, 2020 11:57am
- tf78
  
  Get Sky installed – more programs than you could watch in a lifetime, docos, movies, BBC, Sky news etc – well worth it.
  
  3 4
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  March 27, 2020 1:21pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Yeah nah. No live sport at the moment and Netflix beats it hands down, a quarter of the price as well.
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:45pm
Jack5

Anyone know much about Te Pūnaha Matatini – an Auckland University “centre of excellence”? The name is popping up in modelling of the pattern and intensity of Covid-19 spread in New Zealand.

This is an interesting outfit. Its goal is to:

… develop methods and approaches for transforming complex data about New Zealand’s environment, economy, and society into knowledge, tools, and insight for making better decisions.

But it’s also very wide aWoke – and macron heavy.

Te Pūnaha Matatini scientists, in descending order, are classified as executives, principle investigators, associate investigators, kairangi (term for the best greenstone and applied to senior colleagues), and Te Pūnaha Matatini Whānau (emerging scientists).

In a section noting the organisation’s commitment to diversity, its Maori and Pacific Islander internships, it is noted that:

Siouxsie Wiles and Kate Hannah led a national crowd-funding campaign to send copies of Nicola Gaston’s book ,Why Science is Sexist to people with decision-making power in New Zealand universities and research organisations.

Kate Hannah’s research has highlighted the absence of women from the Royal Society Te Apārangi’s annual prizes and awards, and this has led to a number of changes within the organisation.

However, it’s unlikely that the rising presence of Siouxsie at Radio NZ and TVNZ has anything to do with her being an active feminist.

The “centre” also has this to say:

We demonstrate our commitment to workplace wellness through flexible working, containing meetings within school hours, supporting caregiver attendance at our hui and other events, encouraging and holding a variety of different types of team events, and making sure no-one comes to work on their birthday!

The centre’s virus modelling:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/covid-19/412664/coronavirus-modelling-shows-nz-s-lockdown-could-buy-time-for-a-vaccine
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March 27, 2020 10:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Of course it could buy time for a vaccine if it was possible for Big Pharma to profitably produce one.
  
  How much damage though is caused by not considering economics and the simple fact that people work and build up society and that provides for their future physical sustenance. Do we exist as humans as creatures of the State to be supported and enslaved accordingly? No tourists–yeah! No income–aggro. No sense–trouble.
  Mitigate not master.
  
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  March 27, 2020 1:04pm
Michael

80000 deaths if we hadn’t gone into lockdown.
Rubbish.
And I saw some so called expert on TV1 a few days ago saying this pandemic could go on until Xmas next year. More rubbish.
On the bright side the sharemarket has gone up 2% this morning, fortunes to be made for those that can afford to invest.
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March 27, 2020 10:59am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Wonder what Jacinda’s portfolio looks like?
  
  5 1
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  March 27, 2020 11:41am
  - tf78
    
    A collection of Women’s Magazines!
    
    4 1
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    March 27, 2020 1:23pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Suggesting that by population the world would lose
  about 120 mill people.
  It’s at 20 000 or so and 1/3 of the world (China) is opening up again.
  or we are tits at preventing the deaths?
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:47am
- Rich Prick
  
  There have certainly been some bargains to be had.
  
  2 1
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  March 27, 2020 1:24pm
kowtow

Magic Talk radio top “news” item at 11 am was an attack on Trump having a go at the media .

Don’t we have bigger fish to fry here at home ?

Are the illegal road blocks gone ? I hear lots in the news about Plod stopping lock down deniers such as surfers doing no harm to anyone , but those road blocks must be gone as ……nothing , only Trump , Trump, Trump.
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March 27, 2020 11:09am
- Batman
  
  So you hear lots in the news but yet nothing?
  
  Must be selectively triggered hearing. You should see a doctor mate ?
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think Plod should stop congregating.
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:03pm
Old White Loser

This if true is crazy, a good example of how to spread a virus.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120516059/coronavirus-inside-the-cattle-conference-cluster-of-14-confirmed-cases
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March 27, 2020 11:22am
lastmanstanding

Listen to Squawk Back Radio this morning it was easy to see how the Stasi informants operated during the Cold War.
There is a certain element who get their jollies out of telling on their neighbours.

In times of crisis we see both the best and worst of human behaviour.
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March 27, 2020 11:31am
JibberJabber

Meanwhile in Italy during the lockdown…
https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/fpcxwk/two_police_cars_managed_to_crash_into_each_other/
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March 27, 2020 11:54am
- kowtow
  
  And 6 more police cars turn up to investigate.
  Pity they won’t have a hapless civilian to pin it on.
  
  5 2
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  March 27, 2020 1:41pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Yet!
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just watched a doco on Al Jazeera. The lockdown in Beijing. I hope the Govt, Police and Civil Defence are not watching – things could get out of hand in NZ if they get ant crazy ideas
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March 27, 2020 12:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Stalin Experiment is working just fine
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March 27, 2020 12:30pm
Swifty

Thought for the day.

NZ’s entire civil service, both national and local, should agree to take a 50% salary reduction for the duration of the lockdown if not longer.

To, you know, stand in solidarity with their private sector brothers and sisters and their families who are about to suffer tremendously.

Or will they insist it is their right to retain their full-whack and in the face of what is likely to be a deep and long-lasting recession?
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March 27, 2020 12:50pm
- Batman
  
  I’m sure landlords will also offer a 50% rent discount for all public servants and anyone who’s lost their job then?
  
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  March 27, 2020 12:51pm
  - Swifty
    
    I would encourage it.
    
    3 1
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    March 27, 2020 1:29pm
  - cmm
    
    Rent discount?? Auntie Helen won’t allow that!
    
    4 0
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    March 27, 2020 2:08pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Her half dozen houses would be exempt from any legislation.
      
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      March 27, 2020 5:34pm
  - Joely Doe
    
    There’s a ‘rent freeze’.
    Can’t change my rents, Jacinda said so.
    Oh well, too bad, never mind.
    
    3 2
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    March 27, 2020 4:00pm
    - MCos
      
      “Landlords are being barred from increasing residential rents for the next six months, under urgent COVID-19 legislation being passed.”
      
      You’re in the clear to lower your rents as much as you like.
      I bet you’ll be pleased about that.
      https://www.interest.co.nz/property/104255/landlords-barred-increasing-residential-rents-next-6-months-tenancies-cant-be
      
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      March 27, 2020 4:44pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Here’s a copy of the paper about NZ’s model for Covid-19 spread/deaths

https://cpb-ap-se2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.auckland.ac.nz/dist/d/75/files/2017/01/Supression-and-Mitigation-New-Zealand-TPM-006.pdf
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March 27, 2020 1:00pm
- cmm
  
  I have not read this end to end yet, but looking at Table 2, it seems that the “No control” approach has the same outcomes as the “All the above” strategy. Both give 1.67% population mortality and the same final number infected (89%).
  
  So why bother with all this lockdown malarkey? It is all cost with no benefit.
  
  I will have to say hmmmm until I have read this fully.
  
  Since R0 is way down for the “all the above” and the peak reduction is 99% (effectively meaning more ICU capacity), I will tentatively go with either:
  a) I am misunderstanding something badly or
  b) An error in the paper.
  
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  March 27, 2020 4:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I
    
    .
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:25pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    If I’m interpreting Table 2 correctly…
    
    it shows over 400 days you will get similar outcomes between no control and all of above (total control) strategy, because very little herd immunity develops in the total control strategy (only 0.04%) and once the control is off an outbreak develops.
    
    So best strategy on their table is case isolation and house-hold quarantine.
    
    Too tired now to discuss further… will have a go tomorrow if you want.
    
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    March 27, 2020 10:27pm
- cmm
  
  Thanks for bringing this to our attention Maggy.
  
  Having just looked at the actual model they used (the appendix) I must say I have some skepticism about the assumptions used.
  
  eg. they assume no imported cases over the modeled timeframe.
  
  Still, I’ll give it thorough read.
  
  I still think it was way irresponsible for people to publish the 80k number the way they did.
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:01pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x2wOFitXKE

Fourth Reich might be a casualty of the CCP virus.
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March 27, 2020 1:11pm
curry4me

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/south-korea-the-politics-of-covid-19/

I guess nobody posts much stuff about the ROK.
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March 27, 2020 1:12pm
Jack5

Young, female scribbler on Stuff today, as she praises Jacinderella to the sky:

If this was The Bachelorette, Trump would be the thin-skinned used-car salesman dude who’s forever lying about what a great shag he’d be.

Has this hack-ette not noticed what a stunning looker the current Mrs Trump is?
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March 27, 2020 1:33pm
- Komata
  
  Jack5@1333
  
  She probably has and realising that she will never acquire a similar male ‘prize’, has gone down the envy trail in a fit of spite and jealousy; something I’m told hack-ettes are apparently be very good at.
  
  Hell hath no fury etc. etc.
  
  The fact that she uses an ‘American’ example instead of a Kiwi or Aussie one, would seem to confirm my hypothesis.
  
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  March 27, 2020 4:35pm
- Tall Man
  
  I’m interested to know how she learned about that particular failing with thin skinned car salesmen…
  
  As an aside, I’ve not met many thin skinned car salesmen so I obviously need to associate in “stuff” circles should I want to.
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:32pm
Joely Doe

Not a trick question…
Anyone know anything about roadblocks being placed around cities?
Have a friend isolating over in Akaroa… his neighbour works at Fulton Hogan and says they have been busy placing roadblocks on main arterial routes into Christchurch?!
Does Hone get any royalties?
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March 27, 2020 1:36pm
- cmm
  
  I haven’t heard the cop chopper in Chch for the last few days. What are they doing???
  
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  March 27, 2020 2:33pm
  - dad4justice
    
    They don’t need the chopper as police have the peasants under control as the economy crashes.
    
    7 3
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    March 27, 2020 2:45pm
    - Jack5
      
      Welcome back, Dad. Where you been?
      
      Shall we petition DPF for a pardon for Kea?
      
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      March 27, 2020 3:37pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Personally I vote no. He’s found a new home at ysb to spew his filth.
        
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        March 27, 2020 5:27pm
      - stigie
        
        Kea seems to be happy over at YSB !~
        
        2 1
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        March 27, 2020 6:01pm
    - Tall Man
      
      And ardern fled town when the “Ides” party was cancelled.
      
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      March 27, 2020 5:28pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  Happening in Tairawhiti… Gisborne District
  
  “The CDEM Group Controller Dave Wilson has ordered the setup of road blocks to manage the movement of people throughout our region. Only those in essential services or who are using those essential services will be allowed on the streets. Please ensure you’re fully cooperative.
  
  http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/breaking/20200327/gisborne-has-its-first-confirmed-case-of-covid-19/
  
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  March 27, 2020 4:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I reckon they don’t want you to leave Maggy, you raise the average IQ to nearly respectable levels 🙂
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:29pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I have no desire to leave here.
      
      I think the roadblocks will be out in the hinterland to stop poaching.
      
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      March 27, 2020 7:59pm
Monique Watson

I’m just glad the police have something to do. They seem to have been underutilized as a resource seeing as gang members have all handed in their weapons and aren’t selling meth and acting as agents for Sinaloa and New Gen.
Yeah the worst about it all is the Bachelorette element where we all got invited into Ardern’s bedroom to be part of her bubble.
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March 27, 2020 1:40pm
cmm

DPF: Honest question.

Now that Tarrant has pleaded guilty and the Good Guys have won, can we have the old Kiwiblog back?
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March 27, 2020 2:05pm
- Inandout
  
  cmm, in case you hadn’t noticed we are under almost martial law and it will carry on for a while yet. The Financial Markets Authority has delayed renewals until 2021, presumably knowing that whichever government gets in things will carry on as normal. The mods of late are pretty alert to the latest comments.
  
  7 2
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  March 27, 2020 2:56pm
  - Tall Man
    
    The FMA deferral must be fucking annoying to those that have paid their transitional license fee etc.
    
    2 0
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    March 27, 2020 5:25pm
    - Inandout
      
      It was Chris Fafisi’s original idea to have another ‘reorganisation’.
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:35pm
Tasman Terror

If Tarrant has been convicted of murdering 51 Jews in Christchurch would the left wingers say “They are us?” I think we know the answer. If Israel Folau had read a verse from the Quran about homosexuals going to hell would the lefties have damned him if he was a Muslim?
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March 27, 2020 2:46pm
MrTips

Anyone recovered from COVID19, complete with medical cert saying so, should be allowed to go back to work and not pay attention to Level 4. Why should they? They are no risk to anyone else and no risk to themselves.

This would allow successive roll out of a return to functioning life.

Discuss.
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March 27, 2020 2:46pm
- cmm
  
  Coz, feelz….
  
  A lot of how people react to the next 4 weeks will be due to the feeling of “fairness”.
  
  If people can go back to normal work if they have a medical cert etc, then expect other people to find that unfair and either do dumb stuff like get deliberately infected or just not complying.
  
  In all likelihood, it will become reasonable/rational to take some rural areas out of lockdown earlier (eg. after 2 weeks from now) due to the risks being very low so long as nobody else comes into the community. However if they did that how would the people of Auckland feel about that?
  
  Good luck keeping people compliant if the “I know my rights” brigade start thinking they are hard done by.
  
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  March 27, 2020 3:48pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Only one problem, no one knows (yet) if one can get a second infection or indeed if the virus mutates, get infected by a mutation. Else I agree.
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:23pm
  - MrTips
    
    This virus isn’t mutating. Quite the opposite in fact:
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/relatively-stable-sars-cov-2-genome-is-good-news-for-a-vaccine-67319
    
    And why would IgG positive survivors (which they will be according to basic biology) be a risk? There is NOTHING to suggest survivors of this are any different to survivors of anything else.
    
    We are losing our minds and reasoned approach.
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:33pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Seems quite reasonable. The simple answer to the “immunity after infection” question is to note that if you have recovered, your immune system has kicked the virus into touch. That’s a good start.
  
  As for all the “but it might come back mutated” stuff, we don’t really know, but OTOH your immune system has kicked it into touch once …..
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:36pm
Nickc2

China goes ballistic buying up medical supplies internationally as early as February 2020 and shipping them back to China. A good read:

https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/03/how-a-communist-chinese-owned-company-stripped-aussie-medical-supplies-shipped-them-to-china.html
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March 27, 2020 3:20pm
Ian Boag

New innovation could help solve ventilator shortage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdZtMgpxnPI

Home brew approach from the UK …. looks pretty solid …
3 1
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March 27, 2020 3:50pm
- Fletch
  
  Here is another. It only requires a 3D printed part for which the plans are available to download online, to turn a scuba mask into a ventilator….
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Csqdxkrfw&feature=emb_title
  
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  March 27, 2020 3:54pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Awesome. Sometimes it takes a bad situation to bring out some amazing ingenuity.
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:14pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Bizarre that these posts should be downticked.
    
    Some innovative people who are working on simple solutions to the ventilator thing.
    
    The scuba-mask one would probably not be so useful in a situation that called for intubation.
    
    A bit above my pay grade. I did think that squeezing the bag with compressed air and managing the tidal volume and time interval with a Raspberry Pi is pretty smart. For a patient where the “face-mask” solution works for delivery, the combination would seem like a pretty impressive solution.
    
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    March 27, 2020 6:09pm
    - Jack5
      
      Another device of the great little Raspberry Pi on Covid-19 duty. ?
      
      It tracks coughing and crowd size – in real time, i.e. as the mob coughs.
      
      https://www.networkworld.com/article/3534101/covid-19-vs-raspberry-pi-researchers-bring-iot-technology-to-disease-detection.html
      
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      March 27, 2020 9:47pm
- cha
  
  Lots of innovation going on.
  
  Prisma Health introduces VESper™
  
  VESper™ is a new device that allows one ventilator to support up to four patients under emergency use authorization by the FDA.
  
  Hospitals can apply to receive the free source code and printing specifications for the device.
  
  https://www.prismahealth.org/vesper/
  
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  March 27, 2020 4:04pm
Fletch

Does anyone have any info for wage subsidies for casual employees (which I have recently been working as). From the looks of it (and from the language my employer is using) we aren’t entitled to anything?
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March 27, 2020 3:55pm
- Tall Man
  
  Was talking with the accountant this week and pretty sure she said it depends on the contract if any but in general, $580 odd to the employer if he keeps paying you 80% of the agreed wage and $300 if less than 20 hours.
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:22pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Based on my experience – the form says a business can only apply once. The 12 weeks money appeared in the bank the next day.
    
    God knows how this is being rorted by some.
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:40pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Anticipating any future “confirmation data” requirements will be lax. I think they may be right.
      
      1 1
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      March 27, 2020 6:02pm
    - MCos
      
      I heard on the wireless that people using this scheme to steal other taxpayers’ money is becoming a bit of a problem.
      I suppose if a bank of civil servants was employed to double check every application before handing out the money there would be a long delay.
      
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      March 27, 2020 6:02pm
  - cha
    
    $580 or 80%, which ever is higher?
    
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    March 27, 2020 8:27pm
cmm

“It’s all about me” Hilary Barry splattering her face all over Herald.

How the hell does Barry’s show end up being an essential service?
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March 27, 2020 4:11pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  No idea. More to the point, how is her show more essential than $3 million of Mad Butcher meat?
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:13pm
  - Tall Man
    
    For some reason mutton dressed as lamb popped into my head…….. Not thinking about you either simon … or was I 😉
    
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    March 27, 2020 5:19pm
- MrTips
  
  It isn’t. Which is why I don’t watch the smug harridan.
  
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  March 27, 2020 5:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Having trouble staying at home?
Shave your eyebrows off, oh and then walk around with a selfie stick.
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March 27, 2020 5:26pm
MCos

Smear campaign against Dr Fauci https://twitter.com/philiprucker/status/1243365616251109377?s=21

How long before the medical experts are lambasted here?
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March 27, 2020 5:53pm
dave_c_

“We’ll tell you what you need to know”.
If ever there was an indication that we are being played as a country of morons, this is it.
We know best – trust us – no debate – no verification of veracity – end of story.
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March 27, 2020 7:02pm
Iamright

Just watched Hilary Barry interview the SLG. Fortunately I had finished my dinner otherwise I might have chocked on it. We have a serious siduadion ( mimicking SLG) and all she can do is smile as if we are all having a good time. And great to know that Neve is potty trained. People say she is coming across well. I beg to differ.
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March 27, 2020 7:32pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  It is interesting. The things that some people really really like about her are the same things that people really really dislike about her.
  One day somebody will do a master’s thesis in psychology about Jacinda Ardern. Will be fascinating reading. A lot of people find her really relatable which nearly as many just can’t relate. I’ve never seen another politician like her in this country. The weirdest thing is that nobody seems to be in the middle on her – it’s either great! or hate!
  
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  March 27, 2020 11:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wow,
Talk about campaigning..
Listen To Jessica Mutch- MacKay on TV One news telling us about our Decisive Prime-Minister and her Historical Week.

(From 6:56min in)
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-stream-1-news-6pm-and-seven-sharp
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March 27, 2020 7:39pm
- Wired-one
  
  Our esteemed media dont need to be impartial now. Who is going to call them out on it?
  
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  March 27, 2020 7:47pm
- MrTips
  
  Yup. All the constant TV sessions, interviews and mantras are being used to make the punters think there is only one game in town – her, Jacinda.
  
  Which is all good until the shit hits the fan.
  Which it will. Can’t make omlettes without cracking eggheads.
  
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  March 27, 2020 8:08pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes Maggy my TV got a huge WTF when I heard that. So bloody blatant.
  
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  March 28, 2020 4:41am
Wired-one

Anyone with a strong financial background here? Fortunately I do have a bit of spare cash lying around, should I be investing now or waiting and what should I invest in?
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March 27, 2020 8:01pm
- Jack5
  
  ???
  
  Only sharks would dare offer you the golden answer you seek, Wired-one.
  
  You’re sitting pretty, without worry. You will have a field of expertise or experience. In time, you might identify opportunities in that. Some promising ventures are going to need equity investors.
  
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  March 27, 2020 9:24pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Wired-One, if you think you are going to buy at the bottom, stop dreaming.
  In your position I would closely watch, every day, the main share market index. Wait for it to move 10% above the low point; then pile in. If it rises less than 10% that will probably be what old timers call a dead cat bounce. Exercise patience, my son.
  The first shares I bought cost 5s 9d each.
  
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  March 28, 2020 6:57am

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