General Debate 13 April 2020

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PhilBest

The big news we should be following is antibodies tests and what they tell us.

“…A phlebotomist working at a Chicago hospital testing 400 to 600 people daily, said Thursday that 30 to 50 percent of those tested for coronavirus have antibodies…”

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/04/10/chicago-phlebotomist-coronavirus-antibodies-found-in-30-50-tested-for-covid-19/

That is of course an outlier because selection bias; the people testing are volunteering to be tested, it isn’t random.

But it’s still good news. Who wants to know it?
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April 13, 2020 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Rush Limbaugh’s comment on this, quoted in the above article:
  
  “…It is fascinating that this is not publicly discussed. In fact, when herd immunity comes up, current health officials pooh-pooh it. They say, ‘No, no, no, no! We don’t want to go there. We don’t want to go there…”
  
  Hmmmm…….
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:04am
  - Shunda barunda
    
    What basis do you have to think that “herd immunity” is possible with a corona virus?
    
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    April 13, 2020 8:56am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      Not sure if it is relevant but not everyone catches a cold at the same time.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:04am
    - cmm
      
      Have you ever noticed that in a group of people, some people will catch a cold and others will not? That’s partially due to antibodies causing immunity.
      
      The only think up for dispute is how long the immunity lasts. For some virus types (eg. smallpox) immunity it life long. For others (eg. flu and cold) it is much shorter, which is part of the reason you need a flu jab every year.
      
      The other reason for flu jabs is because new strains keep on coming along.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:42am
      - Shunda barunda
        
        But the flu jab doesn’t protect you from human corona virus that causes flu like symptoms, they just let that run every season because no vaccine has been proven to work. Flu is only for influenza.
        Human Corona virus immunity seems to last only a few months (if that) then you can catch it again.
        There are some interesting papers available on the net, these corona viruses are real nasty pieces of work. No vaccine has been successful for any of them so far, they seem to be able to utilize immune response (or products of an immune response) to make the infection worse. That’s why getting reinfected by Covid 19 could lead to a second wave pandemic potential of more severe disease.
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:11am
      - cmm
        
        Shunda: Correct there is no vaccine for colds etc, but that does not mean there is no immunity, even though the immunity is short lived.
        
        Just because there are antibodies does not necessarily mean that we have yet been able to breed the antibodies and make them into stable vaccines.
        
        People can become immune to colds, albeit for short periods. If it was not the case we’d all catch the same cold in one person in a family/group got it.
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:35pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Professor Knut M. Wittkowski on herd immunity.
      
      https://www.aier.org/article/stand-up-for-your-rights-says-professor-knut-m-wittkowski/
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:55am
      - andydownhere
        
        Thx Jack Rabbit. Very interesting article
        
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        April 13, 2020 9:03pm
    - PhilBest
      
      That was the assumption all along. “Flattening the curve” was always to push the greater number of cases out of the curve “peak” at which point they would have overwhelmed the IC system, into a long, and fatter, “tail” at a rate at which IC could cope with them. It was never assumed, to my knowledge, that lockdown was going to have to be “until we develop a cure” because “there is no such thing as herd immunity”.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:01am
      - cmm
        
        That is my understanding of how “flatten the curve” is supposed to work too.
        
        I agree the hope of just keeping the ball in the back of the scrum with the hopes of a vaccine arriving are broken, but there might be some other cures.
        
        A real worry for us in the southern hemisphere is that the delays caused by flattening the curve will cause a second wave right in the middle of our flu season.
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:38pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      Suggest you read up(Google is your friend) about what herd immunity is and how humans have reacted to it for thousands of years…
      It is the rationale for mass immunisation.
      
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      April 13, 2020 7:25pm
- burt
  
  In war truth is the first casualty.
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:21am
  - stewmar
    
    Never let facts stand in the way of a good story!
    
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    April 13, 2020 8:51am
    - burt
      
      Ok I’ll take your challenge to not let facts stand in the way of a good story.
      
      NZ went hard and fast on lockdown.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:31am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Only 40,000+ new arrivals.
        
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        April 13, 2020 9:38am
      - Michael NZ
        
        🙂
        
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        April 13, 2020 9:42am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Define fast!!!
        1 day after SCOMO did something? ie clsoe the border?
        2 weeks after getting advice
        1 day after getting a facebook messge froma friend.
        1 weeks after saying they would follow South Koreas example(which she flip flopped on in 8 days!!)
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:06pm
      - burt
        
        theoldbloke
        
        Fast is easy to define. It’s where you hold out trying to have a big public gathering 10 days after you’ve been advised to shut the country down. It’s much like ‘stubbornly slow holding out for an internation photo op’ but with a comms degree spin on it. 🙂
        
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        April 13, 2020 3:03pm
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        We may have gone hard and fast on lockdown, but we went soggy and slow on the border. It would have been better the other way around.
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:54pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    Controlling the narrative seems to be the way of most Western Governments, including NZ.
    
    ahhh of course I forgot.
    This will be the most open and transparent government you will have ever seen.
    
    from:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Taiwan#New_Zealand
    
    On 15 March, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said New Zealand would follow Taiwan’s example in their strategy to fight the epidemic. Several news outlets in New Zealand have also mentioned what Taiwan has done to prevent the coronavirus.
    
    So no masks, no border screening, limited testing.
    
    Then wow, we are told 6 DAYS LATER about the 4 levels of alert and that NZ was now at Level 2!!!
    
    So why the big switch from Taiwan, facemasks, screening, etc to what rapidly turned in to having everyone under house arrest!!
    
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    April 13, 2020 7:35pm
- carl wiekart
  
  Also no one is talking about the fact that over 50% of infections are completely asymptomatic. We now have Iceland test 10% of the population and the only county to do massive random testing which backs up the Diamond Princess stats of 50% asymptomatic.
  
  A recent study in China found 78% asymptomatic. However stats from China don’t always pass the sniff test.
  
  However Iceland have the best data and the ocean liner both show a huge portion of asymptomatic carriers. Extrapolate this out in our community and it means that in every walk of life, hospitals, supermarkets, customs, the police force there will be undiagnosed carriers as they are symptom free.
  
  Also it means that potentially by in large there already is a sizeable herd immunity.
  
  The only way forward is for the government To rapidly increase testing, start using testing technology that is available and been offered to the Government that detects if you have had the virus (our government refused these tests) and to be transparent about the results.
  
  It will be interesting to see what Iceland does with this data.
  
  Will this go down in history as the biggest overreaction (we will never know) or the greatest saviour of humanity (how it will be spun either way)
  
  DPF is good with numbers be interesting to see if he crunches some of the numbers that are probably still in the realm of conspiracy theory however a great site for credible info here https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:01am
  - PhilBest
    
    YEP! Someone else GETS IT!
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:02am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Phil,
      
      You and some others have been correct all along.
      
      If we tracked the other flu variants, would get the same stats?
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:15am
      - carl wiekart
        
        yes i did analysis of the Diamond Princess and posted it on here back on March 23. It got shot down a little but the Iceland stats totally vindicates my analysis. The other interesting stat is the average mortality rates. Out of 23 European Countries that have got stats for week 14 of the year being April 1 to April 7, out of the 23, 7 countries have had a spike in death rates (however no worse than a bad flu season) 10 have no significant change in mortality rates and 6 have a decrease. All have registered multiple fatalities. this is limited data but backs up the claim that we are dealing with something comparable to the flu.
        
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        April 13, 2020 1:34pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Me; on Kiwiblog, 27 March:
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/03/coronavirus_stats.html#comment-2668972
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/03/coronavirus_stats.html#comment-2668984
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:04am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      PhilBest, yes, several of us have been making similar points for a while. Generally to be told by Milky that we have no right to comment when we aren’t epidemiologists or virologists.
      
      Nobody with any influence in the government gives a f*** about our opinions, even when they are well thought through and correct. And even when we have training and experience in Public Health.
      
      I just gave up. We’re in for it now: total economic disaster for small companies. Only large corporations such as supermarkets are wanted by this government. Small businesses will fail and their business will be gobbled up by large companies or government schemes. People will end up working for large companies or for government, or end up as beneficiaries. *All easily controlled by government*.
      
      Similar to being a small Mum & Dad landlord: the govt is making increasing laws impossible for many small owners to fulfill, so that only govt or large corporations will be landlords in NZ in the future.
      
      That is what this government wanted all along: socialist government ownership of business and a few large corporations, easily controlled by government, with laws impossible for small businesses to keep up with.
      
      This virus is helping them make this happen at rocket speed.
      
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      April 13, 2020 11:03am
      - cmm
        
        MMA’s point that only virologists should comment is entirely broken.
        
        Dealing with the numbers around a virus is not virology. It is statistics. It is the same when dealing with climate data or polling data.
        
        Statistics is a tool. Tools have to be used correctly to get good results.
        
        The people who should really be commenting are the people who understand how to use the tools.
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:28pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That wasn’t actually my point; it was a slightly wider one that amateur epidemiology does not make for informed comments. None of the ravings on Kiwiblog would have convinced anyone that our ministry of health and associated professionals have got anything drastically wrong about this pandemic.
        That’s not to say that mistakes have not been made – only a through inquiry after the event could establish that, though. Comments on Kiwiblog will only convince people who are already disposed to the prevailing ideology here – they won’t be cogent enough to change anyone’s mind.
        
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        April 13, 2020 1:41pm
  - emmess
    
    Styxhexhenhammer has been talking about asymptomatic variants almost everyday for months now.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTlycYfJhmE
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:54am
- kowtow
  
  Iceland has interesting results too.
  
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:39am
Rich Prick

Happy International Freedom & Liberty Day everyone.
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April 13, 2020 8:08am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  What’s the difference between freedom and liberty?
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:23am
  - Rich Prick
    
    It’s not International Hair Splitting Day, that’s next week.
    
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    April 13, 2020 8:34am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Brought to you by the World Casuistry Association, I believe.
      
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      April 13, 2020 8:44am
  - freethinker
    
    From Wiki –
    Liberty – the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behaviour, or political views.
    Freedom – he power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants.
    Certain amount of overlap MM you should try engaging brain before putting fingers into motion or do your own research.
    
    Think about this – Political violence is violence perpetrated by people or governments to achieve political goals. It can describe violence used by a state against other states (war) or against non-state actors (most notably police brutality or genocide). Violence may not always be physical and may be the threat of something or even the implied threat.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:33am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Freethinker, or the removing of something…..
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:44am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Too much of an overlap for the use of both terms to make sense in the any meaning of Rich Prick’s (imaginary) holiday.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:58am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Freedom is the day you don’t troll here.
    
    Liberty is downticking your comments when you do.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:14am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    We are free to downtick idiots.
    Idiots remain at liberty to be idiots.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:35am
- Belinda
  
  Thanks for that, that’s certainly worth a drive in the car to celebrate.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:15am
Bill felt

RIP Sir Stirling Moss
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April 13, 2020 8:11am
- All_on_Red
  
  Yes
  Great driver, great character.
  Nice Obituary here
  https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/historic/2020/4/obituary-sir-stirling-moss-1929-2020/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I had his autograph from when I was a kid living in Hamilton. He was famous even way back then
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:55am
- curry4me
  
  Bill felt: Yes, I didn’t even know he was still alive. I thought he’d died years ago.
  
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  April 13, 2020 1:23pm
dave_c_

Rich One – Been on that drive yet ?
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April 13, 2020 8:14am
artemisia

On the pandemic plus side we are going to get wider footpaths and temporary cycleways, funded by the taxpayer and a little bit by ratepayers, so we don’t have to walk too close to other folk. Thanks so much Ms Genter.

Funding will come from the Innovating Streets for People pilot fund, part of a wider programme that supports projects using ‘tactical urbanism’ techniques such as pilots and pop-up, interim treatments that make it safer and easier for people walking and cycling in the city.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-fund-temporary-cycleways-and-footpaths-post-covid-19-lockdown
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April 13, 2020 8:14am
- PhilBest
  
  The downtickers are assuming Artemisia is sincere rather than cynical? How could anyone place a comment like that and mean it sincerely?
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:39am
  - artemisia
    
    PhilBest is the smart one here. I mean ‘tactical urbanism’? Really?
    
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    April 13, 2020 8:50am
    - Rich Prick
      
      That’s leftist double-good-think. I think.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:17am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Guys, if you look look up the Auckland Council website, this has been the wet dream plans of Genter and friends (inside Auckland Council & AT) since 2011.
    
    Their only problem will be the number of empty premises on High Street and O’Connell Street in the wake of this thing.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:24am
- pdm
  
  Genter is nuts!!
  
  My mistake but three years ago I thought she was one of the saner Greens. Proven to be completely wrong.
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:48am
  - KH
    
    @pdm. My thoughts exactly. She’s gone wacko.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:13am
    - septic skeptic
      
      She just has more visible symptoms than the others.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:32am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Despite my earlier criticisms, I saw the roll out widened pathways on High Street, actually a good idea for pedestrian traffic ‘safe distance’ but narrows the road. Maybe, and we should see less cars in the cities.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:01am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Everybody’s in favour of having fewer cars in city centres – as long as it’s other people who don’t drive into the city.
      
      It’s great for those who still can. For those now prevented, not so much. Each person who used to drive and now can’t, is a person who now has more stress, effort, expense, inconvenience and discomfort in their lives.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:13am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Sane and Green? Surely a contradiction in terms.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:38am
- KH
  
  “Tactical urbanism” def: a process of taking money out of peoples pockets to spend it on items of street littering temporary crap, which they would never spend money on themselves.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:12am
  - artemisia
    
    Any bets on ‘temporary’?
    
    Thought not.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:06am
  - Ruawai
    
    Surely heading into winter there is even less people walking and cycling in cities. Greens are nuts.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:53am
- rangitoto
  
  When will she shut down all public transport? It’s too risky having so many in a confined space.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I believe public transport, operating to a limited timetable, is still needed for many essential workers.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:33am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well in Christchurch the buses are empty or have 1 or 2 passengers, at least the ones I have seen. All consuming hundreds of litres of diesel each day. For those essential workers without private transport, it would have been cheaper to use ride share schemes and have the Government pay.
      
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      April 13, 2020 9:56am
      - artemisia
        
        Choppers. Land on the roof and don’t clutter up the footpaths.
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:05am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Genter said yesterday on Twitter that she doesn’t want crowded public transport. What’s the point of expensive public transport if it’s not used to near capacity?
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:25am
      - igm
        
        Don’t worry ratepayers can pick up the cost . . . like they do for every other left-wing whim that has been initiated since Palmer’s Local Government Amendment Act . . . he is responsible for most economic and social problem in this country.
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:40am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Mma, true, but the issue under levels 2 to 4 the max passengers you can carry on a 12 to 13 meter bus is 10 to 11 people plus the driver while practicing safe distancing of up to 2 meters! Figure it out, remember each bus has 2.45m width inside for passengers, and passengers get on/off at the rear doors (safe distance from the driver).
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:29am
    - kloyd0306
      
      ….as well as a disease trap.
      Densely populated cities are where Covid thrives and kills. Will the Auckland Unitary plan survive this?
      Urban sprawl is our saviour.
      More cars (great bubble), no buses, no bus lanes, freer moving traffic. A win-win!
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:42am
      - Ruawai
        
        …and change the light sequencing to encourage traffic flow rather than the current Auckland Council control of traffic lights to restrict traffic flow.
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:55am
  - alwyn
    
    Kim Hill was talking to someone in New York on Saturday.
    One of the reasons suggested for why New York was being hit so hard by Convid 19 was that many people there didn’t own cars and had to use Public Transport. Unavoidably therefore they were being exposed to the disease. I wonder if Genter and her cabal of raving loonies will accept responsibility for deaths from the virus because their policies are forcing people into contact with carriers of the disease?
    Won’t be hitting our Julie of course. There are Limo’s for that lady.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:00am
    - PhilBest
      
      Actually NYC is a more complex case than that, and a perfect illustration of Hayekian “unintended consequences”.
      
      NYC is one of “THE” global cities, with a powerful, high-income economic cluster based on global finance. This is why it has skyscrapers, high density, expensive apartments, and subways. PT riders are mostly not poor people at all, but well above average income. The low car mode share is because there simply isn’t the street space for them. You wanna live in NYC to get rich, you live in an apartment and catch the subway. Then on average, most people transition out of NYC again after a few years to get a suburban home and have a family.
      
      Of course there are some poor people traveling to work as cleaners or nannies or whatever, but they are actually a minority. Federal subsidies to NYC’s PT system have been rightly condemned as a wealth transfer in the opposite direction to that assumed by social-justice based PT advocates arguments.
      
      So why are there still some poor and elderly poor and vulnerable people there, in locations that economics would tell us they should long since have been forced out of by high rents and urban renewal? Ans: “Rent Control” and “Social Housing”.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:14am
    - hullkiwi
      
      It is the same issue in most of the major cities in Europe. Significant numbers of people rely on PT, which is largely crammed trains or trams. Remember in London, London Inderground consider a carriage full when 95% of a train’s standing capacity is used. So, they are sardine tins on wheels and a great place to spread germs and viruses.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:33am
    - igm
      
      NY can thank their sanctuary city status for the majority of its current problems . . . open borders to deadbeats, suffer the consequences.
      By the way what is the population ratio?
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:42am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Lots of the high density city living would cause higher exposure. Public Transport with people crammed on at a density we don’t experience here in nz instead of driving solo in your car. More live in high rise apartments who all have to share elevators. Many don’t cook at all in NY. Many eat out regularly in busy restaurants and more likely to be out at busy bars. In a big city more of your life is lived in the public realm than in your family home. High density is definitely one of the risk factors that explained fast spread. The suburban lifestyle’s biggest spread risk factor is children who go to large schools.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:52am
      - PhilBest
        
        Mind you if those schools weren’t in the suburbs, where would they be? Inner-city schools are small for a reason; much to the despair of “we know what’s good for you” urban planners…
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:25pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    By booking tickets or seats in advance overcomes the ‘self-distancing’ problem and also people being at the stops without a ticket. Physical distancing of public transport continues in Level 2, so does alternative ways of working. So reduced volumes using public transport.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:11am
    - PhilBest
      
      But still a lot of unavoidable “proximity”.
      
      Actually “social distancing” in what is actually still a confined space, has to be risky. A train carriage is not a supermarket, far from it. The height of the ceiling, the cubic volume of air per person, and the circulation of air, must be factors.
      
      But PT is sacred, don’t we know. Churchgoers can promise to socially distance and observe sensible hygeine precautions, but that didn’t wash with the militant-secularist authorities, did it? I think we can see pretty clearly how “religious values” simply get shifted from one thing onto another by so-called “secularism”.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:19am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Everyone seems to miss the point in what is happening in Asia. You know the successful countries, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea.
        
        Facemasks on PT is compulsory. Not to stop you getting it, but to stop you giving it!!!
        
        But then Cindy has decided not to follow best practice. Because some woofter in WHO says keep the masks for frontline workers.
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:28pm
    - Dougal10
      
      So it becomes a glorified taxi type service not public transport.
      
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      April 13, 2020 11:39am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yep, and if the bus was a Hummer, we’d call it a waste of public money. But because it is a bus, even though it uses more gas than a Hummer, we don’t think about it the same way.
        
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        April 13, 2020 12:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The streets widening is planned to take only 6 months after the local authorities sign off on their agreement to the incentive program.
  Twford has been placed in charge and the rollout will be reviewed in 2089.
  The numbers of infections expected to be avoided at best estimates over the course of the plan ranges from 1 to 5.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:45am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Same cycle ways they laughed at when John Key first proposed them?
  
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  April 13, 2020 12:45pm
Happychappy

Our Prime Minister gave shout to all those essential workers that were doing necessary Job during the lockdown a couple of weeks ago. But like most things the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern does it is all about her and what she can do to get re – elected.
Carer are forced to wash and reuse face masks.
At the end of March Ashley Bloomfield promised home care workers masks, gloves and gowns to keep them and their clients safe from CORID – 19 almost two weeks later , why are still so many going to work unprotected. When Katie* gets home from her shift as a home care worker she takes a handful of flimsy, disposable, surgical masks that she has been wearing that day and hangs them on the line. When she goes to work the next day she refuses them.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/12/1125227/carers-forced-to-wash-and-reuse-masks
What a joke this Prime Minister is becoming with people like Bryce Edward’s posting fluff columns around the World about her Leadership, how great she is and her kind ness for all to read ,and she blatantly allows heath officials to withholds safty equipment that could save lives from needed homecare workers.
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April 13, 2020 8:21am
- alloytoo
  
  I just listened to a criticism of Trump, hammering him on various points. I was struck by how many of those points applied to our current PM.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:24am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The scoreboard is 20,000 fatalities compared to 4.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:13am
    - igm
      
      What a stupid analogy. Trump is stumped by Democrats not allowing him to totally close borders, Polosi and its adherents created most of the problems, not Trump.
      By the way what are the population ratios?
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:45am
    - kloyd0306
      
      ……and a death rate three times lower than Italy, Spain, France and Germany combined.
      
      Where’s your criticism of Merkel and Macron?
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:46am
    - Dougal10
      
      Do you not understand how a federal system works.
      
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      April 13, 2020 11:41am
    - theoldbloke
      
      You obviously dont understand the US political system. States are responsible for the public health of their residents.
      Federal gummint is a backup unless a national state of emergency is declared.
      
      That is why of your 20,000 more than 10,000 deaths are in New York, New Jersey and Michigan.
      
      Compare NY with 478 deaths per million population with Wyoming. Zero!!!
      
      So NZ isnt doing as well as Wyoming. Better applaud Trump for doing a great job there.
      
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      April 13, 2020 12:35pm
- LTA1955
  
  Watching her on the 1.00-1.30pm BS parade she was all smiles and having a laugh. It was a horror show. She came across as a sociopath having a laugh at all the poor suffering citizens having to dip the forelock to her Peronist whims. Begone you hag!
  
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  April 13, 2020 6:06pm
Nickc2

International Freedom & Liberty Day. Do we have to? I’m surprised Cindy hasn’t cancelled it. Perhaps she didn’t know because no one told her.
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April 13, 2020 8:23am
Andrew Worth

The pronunciation of TV presenters in this country isn’t very good these days, last night in attempting to say “egg hunts” Melissa Chan-Green (nee Melissa Davies) turned the “gg” into a “c”, which left my wife and I momentarily confused.
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April 13, 2020 8:23am
- 3-coil
  
  AW: The “trained professionals” (TV talking heads) clearly struggle so much to pronounce a multitude of English words correctly, it is a joke – and only occasionally funny, as per your example. Only a fool would trust that their pronunciation of the intermittent Maori words they utter is correct either. It’s definitely a waste of time using sloppy MSM kens&barbies to try to teach us te reo.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:17am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    RNZ announcers never bother to tell listeners what their Maori expressions mean. So I doubt that anyone is learning a single thing beyond maybe parroting a phrase – a very dangerous practice in most languages, as one can completely misuse a poorly understood expression.
    
    They have no interest at all in really teaching some Maori language to listeners. They just want to show off how PC they are.
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:37am
Ruahine

I wonder who were the people surveyed to arrive at this piece of gov’t propaganda. My guess it is likely the so-called Human Rights Commission. Now that our rights have been overruled at the whim of incompetent people it does not seem as if people working from home on full salaries would have very much to do so why would they want this situation to end. One big holiday on full pay and you do not even have to get out of bed. Isn’t Cindy wonderful. Now what has happened to that other Teddy Bear.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120979024/most-new-zealanders-willing-to-extend-covid19-lockdown-pain–survey
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April 13, 2020 8:23am
- Michael NZ
  
  Ruahine
  
  It maybe some people have got saner lives out of this.
  It maybe that some families are doing better.
  of course there is the flip side for some.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:49am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    The cost of those ‘maybes’ is literally unaffordable.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:37am
- JackRabbit
  
  Crazy. Surveys are not law, and should not be treated as such. Especially if you survey selectively.
  
  After all, surveys of young school children arrived at a petition for the plastic bag ban right after having been mesmerised by Jacinda telling them that China plastic pollution problem and ours was identical, an no doubt scared shitless by photos of India and China’s plastic pollution.
  
  If this was in England 150 years and you carried out a survey of the Small Business owners whose businesses are going tits up under lock down, there would be a majority calling for her, David Clarke, Roberston and Little to be removed from office, tarred, feathered and put into public stocks to have the unsold rotting veges and fruit thrown at them.
  
  But we are civilised, so surveys and lynch mobs are NOT how our country should be run.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:09am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I just posted about that under DG’s piece first up this morning. The link in the article takes you to a report that doesn’t even address that question, from surveys taken in March!
  
  Looks very much like we’re being softened up for an extension of house arrest and an increase in the powers granted to people in whose hands it becomes extremely dangerous.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:40am
Suze Wainwright

I see Google’s link of the day says thank you to all greengrocers – clearly not in Aotearoa/New Zealand though…
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April 13, 2020 8:27am
- yossarian
  
  “Blessed are the cheese-makers!”
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:59am
- Ruahine
  
  Perhaps Cindy was made to eat her greens by her parents. Hence this is a great chance to kick the Greengrocers in the shins.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:04am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Yes. And the Greens’ chance to kick butchers in the nuts.
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:41am
MrTips

If only someone could get in there and sort this out… https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/116574274/new-greymouth-hospital-opening-already-more-than-a-year-late#comments
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April 13, 2020 8:29am
- Happychappy
  
  Thats what happens when the coast backs Labour as there Party of choice, the home of the Labour movement. The attitude changes to they can wait we will still have there vote so there is no hurry. This is not only problem that needs fixing on the Coast that has been waiting to be fixed so maybe they should look at who they vote for and give Labour the problem of deciding are the prepared to take the risk and still do nothing.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:27am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Happy, good point, but please: ‘Their Party’. ‘their vote’. ‘Their’ for ownership. ‘There’ for location.
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:43am
KevO'Brien

A detailed backgrounder on the origins of COVID-19:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/should-trouble-us-deeply-chilling-documentary-maps-out-likely-origin-covid-19
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April 13, 2020 8:30am
- HalfFull
  
  I watched that video and it is chilling and also a bit over the top ( Are we not entertained) enuf.
  
  Also found this for the Scientists out there. “The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2”
  
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9
  
  I still feel this is a human incompetent cluster f..k.
  I mean you have a raw material supply (wet market) 3 km from a level4 bio disease lab down the road which studies and creates animal to human diseases like SARS,Covid,MERS etc
  
  The CCP cover up that followed though is unforgivable followed by the UN,WHO bumbling which is also unforgivable.
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:54am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “…the UN, WHO bumbling which is also unforgivable.”
    
    The UN and especially WHO actions were outright corruption rather than unforgivable bumbling.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:43am
- Ruahine
  
  Kev.
  I watched that video last night, just by chance, it is also posted on You Tube in a slightly different format. I know that Epoch Times put the doco together and they are part of the Falun Gong Organisation.
  It is very convining and has a lot of credible information complete with documentation and peoples names and the names of Organisations and hospitals and papers published in such scientific journals such as Nature and Lancet.
  It is up to the CCP and WHO to publish credible rebuttals. So we shall see.
  Thanks for the post.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:18am
KevO'Brien

A medical view on the how COVID-19 acts:
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/urgent-new-medical-theory-on-coronavirus-hold-the-ventilators-stop-blood-clots-instead/
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April 13, 2020 8:31am
- PhilBest
  
  It is noticeable how global warming skeptical sites have risen to this latest challenge. That’s Jo Nova; WattsUpWithThat is also doing a great job informing, auditing the models, etc
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Thinking, capable people.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Tim Brooke-Taylor, has succumbed to covid-19.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52262490
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April 13, 2020 8:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  That is sad.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fEb0xV0ltI
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:11am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    Thanks for the link (its a tribute to Tim with lots of clips – great to watch). RIP, Tim. And thank you for all those many many laughs.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:27am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Goodies was part of a whole suite of British comedy shows that were groundbreaking, and ahead of their time.
  
  Rest peacefully Tim Brooke-Taylor.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:27am
  - Fletch
    
    My best friend and I used to watch it every afternoon. They were a laugh riot. Very practical physical humour. Funnier than most American shows these days which is all sexual innuendo. Never been broadcast again, most probably because some was politically incorrect.
    
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    April 13, 2020 1:22pm
Maggie Pie

I know for sure my partner has just about fallen out of his tree with this guvmint imposed lockdown. When i got home this morning, I checked the History on his laptop while he was in the shower. There was 3 hits on ‘Liquorland’, and 8 separate searches for the KFC Menu.
LOL!!
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April 13, 2020 8:38am
- stigie
  
  Heh, anything else on that laptop that you should not know about Maggie..?
  Just asking for a friend of course !~
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:31am
- Brian McDonald
  
  I’m all for such places to reopen by delivery only – maybe uber which surely is going to take off. Comfort food for [Deleted – Mod], and a knockout for the non-sleepers.
  
  [Mod – enough of the race-based stereotypes.]
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:19am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Raced-based to say particular foods are popular with certain races when it is a celebrated fact within that race.
    
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    April 13, 2020 5:02pm
- mark15
  
  I’ve been googling ‘coffee as an essential supply’
  Nope.Even the petrol stations that formerly supplied coffee do not.
  
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  April 13, 2020 12:09pm
- Fletch
  
  From what local groups are saying on my social media, the ‘ᴛᴇɢᴇʟ ᴛᴀᴋᴇ ᴏᴜᴛs ʟᴏᴜɪsɪᴀɴᴀ sᴛʏʟᴇ ᴄʜɪᴄᴋᴇɴ ᴘᴏʀᴛɪᴏɴs’ bought from the supermarket are very, very close to KFC. Some of my Facebook friends have tried them, and they say the same.
  
  https://www.tegel.co.nz/products/tegel-take-outs-louisiana-style-portions-1kg/
  
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  April 13, 2020 12:59pm
oldpark

Winston Peters what a web he weaved when he deceived NZs when he sold out his supporters.
Peters installed the present regime under ms/Ardern a past President of the International Union of Socialist Youth, or to put it mildly Young Communist Youth. .The day he selected her to be NZs PM she boldly declared “Capitalism” is dead .
After taking allegedly instructions from her “friends” in the UN/WHO to shut down the country in the last few weeks and perhaps the type of “Capitalism” system which has kept NZs in the lifestyle they enjoy and have worked hard to keep it that way .Perhaps not any more.
Her and her cohorts could not believe their luck when the Coronavirus accelerated their passion to make NZ “The Socialist Republic of the South Pacific” Yes they have in the last couple of weeks with the Lockdown made up to circa 40%-50% of the population dependant on financial handouts by the present Government using OPM .Or other peoples borrowed money .
So far so good . Wonder how all of that will work out when the other peoples money becomes scarce,maybe putting a first world Nation like NZ on the breadline .Not forgetting massive unemployment.

Maybe by then the great Passion by Ardern and cohorts making NZ a Socialist Paradise will be a disaster.Perhaps they could take some tips and advice from the dictators of say Venezuela, El Salvador ,Zimbabme ,and Cuba. Etc!Etc!
Check out how Socialism is working out in the mentioned Nations now that they have run out of OPM .Other Peoples Money . Don’t laugh ,even Toilet Paper.
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April 13, 2020 8:42am
- stewmar
  
  So the PTPM and their deputy PM are both Plonkers then. What chance have we got!!!!
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:57am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Look on the bright side.
  
  This “Free 30-day Trial of Communism” ought to innoculate many New Zealanders against the socialism virus.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:08am
- Dougal10
  
  I hear car tires are a valuable trading currency in Venezuela. Won’t that piss genter the anti car twat off if it happens here.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:14am
slightlyrighty

I notice that car dealers in Wuhan are experiencing high sales volumes post Covid 19.

The main reason is that people simply do not want to risk being infected on public transport.
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April 13, 2020 8:54am
- burt
  
  Meanwhile we reduce the parking spaces in our cities and force more people onto public transport.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:26am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is OK – JAG is going to widen the footpaths so you can walk.
    
    Packed public transport in winter is not healthy at the best of times. When I commuted by train in Wellington I was getting frequent colds. When I stopped that so did the colds. In Wellington, it is not practical for everyone to drive to the city. There simply is not enough parking. I guess there will be more working from home. In the case of Christchurch where there is ample parking everywhere, I expect that buses will be largely empty.
    
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    April 13, 2020 9:53am
    - Jules99
      
      Satellite working would be better for business continuity following an earthquake too. There’s lots to gain.
      
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      April 13, 2020 10:14am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        That CRL white elephant is just looking better and better by the day isn’t it?
        
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        April 13, 2020 10:46am
Yvette

Recent descending case numbers should perhaps be regarded with caution.
Saturday’s numbers would seem obvious: 29 new cases were announced, a drop of 15 on Friday, but Friday’s tests (assumed to be the discovery of those cases) – being on Easter Friday – were down 1459 on the number of tests done the day before.

From daily Health press releases –
Wed 08 April 2020 – 4098 tests processed yesterday, increase 50
Thurs 09 – 29 new cases, 3990 tests processed yesterday
Fri 10 – 44 new cases, yesterday we carried out 4520 tests
Sat 11 – 29 new cases, yesterday [Easter Friday] we carried out 3061 tests
Sun 12 – 18 new cases, 2421 tests were processed yesterday [Easter Sat] [1]

Beware of poor maths or amateur statistics, but differences on each day from the day before –
Thurs 09th – cases down 21, tests down 108
Fri 10th – cases up 15, tests up 530
Sat 11th – cases down 15, tests down 1459
Sun 12th – cases down 11, tests down 640

If tests go down, new cases found are down – about as fucking obvious as if you test only people who’ve been overseas, or in contact with people who have, those tests of course reveal a connection with travel. How many media accounts are there now of people who begged to be tested but were initially declined for having no travel connection?

There is also an obvious random factor – like Thursday 09, with tests down 108, but cases down 21, was quite different to Saturday 11, when the tests from Easter Friday were also down, by 1459, but cases down only 15.

So the country may not be out of the woods yet.
In Shane’s case it is ironically because he has not planted enough trees.
With cover-19, it seems there is not enough testing.

“Go early, go hard”? – fairy dust!

[1] https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases
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April 13, 2020 8:55am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Bear in mind that priority will be given to testing the most likely cases, and as test numbers increase the proportion of positive results will decline.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What age is Ardern’s brain developed too? Her promotion of the Easter Bunny and the Police accompanying the critter suggests about 5 years.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:54am
  - Nookin
    
    Her promotion of the Easter Bunny and the Police accompanying the critter suggests about 5 years.
    
    I think I am inclined to the view that this was a sop to frustrated parents with agitating children. Of its own, her promotion of the Easter Bunny does not define her. That of course, does not necessarily mean that you are wrong.
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:33am
- Jules99
  
  It occurred to me that they might be doing herd immunity by the back door. Jacinda is not smart enough to come up with that, but maybe some health professionals behind the scenes are.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:13am
- Brian McDonald
  
  No not out of the woods yet but need to remember the criteria in order to qualify for a test has been widened, so in some way, those extra negative tests become random testing.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:22am
- PhilBest
  
  The “negative test results” are high, though, aren’t they? Over 90%?
  
  So whichever direction the authorities are erring in, it probably isn’t “not doing enough tests”.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:24am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I can’t agree with your analysis or conclusions, sorry. The number of new, confirmed cases has decreased every day since the 4th April:
  
  4/04/2020 52
  5/04/2020 48
  6/04/2020 39
  7/04/2020 32
  8/04/2020 26
  9/04/2020 23
  10/04/2020 20
  11/04/2020 14
  
  They announced on 10 April that there were 44 “new cases” but only 23 of those were confirmed. The definition of “probable” means that the test was negative but there are other factors that suggest the person may have the virus (these include symptoms, recent overseas travel, contact with someone recently traveled overseas, contact with someone that has the virus, and a few others).
  
  For this reason the increase in testing did not reveal the presence of more confirmed cases – in fact the opposite occurred.
  
  Nobody has yet answered the question of what happens to those “probable” cases – are they added to the next day’s totals when confirmed, subtracted if not, or do we just quietly forget about them? For this reason it’s safer to ignore “probables” and focus on confirmed cases, and the reality is that increased testing has not confirmed more cases, in fact the opposite.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:00am
Andrei

Funnily enough the BBC isn’t giving this coverage

Nobody is
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April 13, 2020 8:57am
- kowtow
  
  “Youths”
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:54am
  - PhilBest
    
    My very thought exactly!
    
    “Asian youths” perhaps? (Careful!)
    
    “North African youths”? (They never say this).
    
    And there is another word they never, ever, ever, ever, EVAH! say…..
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Nobody is
  
  I’m sure the Brussells Times, whose link you posted, will be delighted that you regard them as “nobody”.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:32am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I’m sure they’ll take it as a compliment, as John Eales did. After all, Nobody’s perfect.
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:02am
  - kowtow
    
    Given that the most famous Belgians are a fictional detective and a fictional reporter , both connected to what is in reality a fictional nation the Br Times should be delighted to be noticed at all…….
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:43am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Just like the very recent islamic terrorist knife-murders of two innocent people, and serious injuries to several others in France were not mentioned in NZ MSM anywhere that I could find.
  
  The islamic terrorist was arrested kneeling on the ground and praying in arabic, and unconfirmed reports said he shouted something about a “snackbar” when he started slashing.
  
  Police found islamic scriptures in his apartment and scribblings about “unbelievers” all over the place.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Perhaps you are not very good with the Google:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/120832414/terror-inquiry-opened-after-knifeman-in-france-kills-two
    
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    April 13, 2020 6:50pm
kglm

If lock down rules that restrict our freedoms are to be respected and obeyed, they must have some logical basis. In my view, that key is whether an activity is done while maintaining the integrity of the ‘bubble’. The virus eradication strategy is based on social distancing. If an activity is done while maintaining social distancing, then it is hard to see how that activity increases the risk of spreading disease. Enforcing obedience of rules that have no logical basis, serves no useful purpose, and will eventually alienate the public. A few examples that spring to mind are:
*on-line merchants only being able to sell ‘essential’ items
*dairies being open (1 in – 1 out) but butchers and green grocers not
* traveling in a car alone for a ‘non-essential’ purpose
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April 13, 2020 8:59am
- Jules99
  
  Cycling good, swimming at the beach bad.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:10am
  - Ruahine
    
    Apparently nobody in the CoL can swim it seems. Thank goodness some of them can ride a bike.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:59am
Poppa

The weather has turned into Autumn today & I predict people will not be so keen to accept being stuck inside for another 2 weeks, or whatever period of time Cindy will deem to be right

I can see a severe pushback coming soon & she is not prepared for that

Even the media might wake up to the fact their advertising revenue is going through the floor & start to question more
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April 13, 2020 9:00am
- Mr Coronavirus
  
  Dear Poppa
  
  Thank you for giving me hope.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:30am
  - Mr Coronavirus
    
    Dear main stream media
    
    Go to the devil.
    
    26 2
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    April 13, 2020 9:40am
- Ruahine
  
  Those nice people at Creative New Zealand and NZ on Air will no doubt be able to help out. They have lots of money apparently.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/414081/covid-19-creative-new-zealand-pulls-together-16m-emergency-response-package
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:53am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I think CNZ is actually taking the lead with their response by quickly cancelling and repurposing all of its existing grant money into support for artists et al. They will face a radical shake up in 2021.
    
    2021 is going go be a beast of a year for all charitable organisations, including favourites like RSA, SPCA, St Johns, hospices, the list goes on and on.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:36am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Even the media might wake up to the fact their advertising revenue is going through the floor & start to question more’
  
  Nope, they’ll double down on Trump.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:55am
- Interested Party
  
  Can I assume you are in Auckland where the weather has largely been good, I think most of the rest of the country has been having crap weather for weeks, so the RONZs are coping well – but agree everyone’s patience will wear thin
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Boating/fishing has missed the best time of the whole year.
    Coastguard my arse. My motor (140 Suzuki) only has 68 hours on it. It will not break down. Also I can swim. I have never come near having an accident on the water in nearly 50 years on the harbour. And yes I am a member and never needed to call them, let’s keep it that way
    
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    April 13, 2020 4:05pm
dai

Whenever I hear the words freedom or liberty and see a flag I know it’s time to be concerned.
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April 13, 2020 9:05am
godruelf

Watching TVNZ news last night it appears it would be much nicer being repatriated from Montevideo on what looked like a combination on upmarket jets than a ride on a C130 from Vanuatu
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April 13, 2020 9:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What are we doing in Vanuatu that is in Australia’s regional influence range–we have the Pacific.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:58am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Well, it was a very nice boat also.
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:28pm
freemark

The PM needs more support from all of us. Therefore a new popular movement has been started. Please show your devotion appropriately &..
#nark4cindy
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April 13, 2020 9:46am
Benedict Yu

This guy is a weapons grade menace.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52262075

“Assange ‘secretly fathered two children’ in Ecuadorean embassy”
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April 13, 2020 9:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Assange getting on with life-great.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:00am
  - kowtow
    
    A whole new meaning to Banged up abroad.
    
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    April 13, 2020 10:38am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Do you think the Ecuadorians will be giving them passports?
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:29pm
Old White Loser

With Boris Johnson thanking Nurse Jenny.

Does this make him Forrest Gump?
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April 13, 2020 10:00am
- hullkiwi
  
  OWL, you might ask, who the hell are the NZ MSM and Tim Shadbolt to identify who Jenny and her family are.
  
  That behaviour is an appalling assault on the privacy of Jenny and her family.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:11am
  - mark15
    
    Just spreading the narrative HK
    
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    April 13, 2020 12:14pm
Inandout

Wet & Forget Indoor kills 99.9% of bacteria. I want 100%.
7 3
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April 13, 2020 10:00am
- Aliog
  
  Doesn’t work on Covid-19 though – that’s a virus, not a bacteria. All you need for Covid is soap and water.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:58am
  - rangitoto
    
    It probably does destroy the Wu flu virus. Viruses are quite fragile and don’t last long outside of a host. Bacteria are usually harder to kill.
    
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    April 13, 2020 1:55pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  No, you most certainly don’t. Not only are there good bacteria which you want to keep for the sake of your gut, but also exposure to “bad” bacteria and germs builds up your natural immunity.
  
  Ever wonder how we managed to survive without hand sanitiser and bacterial wipes? We’re actually reducing immunity (and safety) by trying to kill all bacteria, not improving it.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:17am
- skyblue
  
  It’s just spray and wipe like dettol, Mr Muscle you get at supermarket. W&F is a RIP off at $52.50 per 2 litre.
  
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  April 13, 2020 1:02pm
- rangitoto
  
  Concentrated Nitric acid will do it.
  
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  April 13, 2020 1:47pm
  - skyblue
    
    Aqua regia even better.
    
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    April 13, 2020 2:02pm
kglm

How much will it cost to save each life? That depends on how many lives are saved. This is unknowable, but seems to range from the “tens of thousands” asserted by the PM at one extreme, to several hundred at the other extreme. The total cost of the lock down will be able to be estimated in due course. Some overseas research indicates that in extreme lock down conditions (I am not sure what that means), the cost per life saved will be about $500 million. In New Zealand, the cost will certainly be tens of millions, maybe up to $100 million per life.
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April 13, 2020 10:08am
- PhilBest
  
  “…several hundred at the other extreme…”
  
  Quite plausibly not even that.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:29am
- kowtow
  
  And how and where to calculate how many lives lost and ruined due to the lock down , the mental health stress , the unemployment , the bankruptcies ,attendant suicides, those who will die or suffer due to long postponed “elective” surgeries …….
  
  Incalculable.
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:41am
Brian McDonald

Maybe if someone above mentioned this earlier I must have missed it but Boris has gone home and spoke about 2 days during his treatment where it was touch and go. Nothing like your leader getting off the deck and putting his or her dukes up again for the country.
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April 13, 2020 10:25am
KevO'Brien

Bill Gates Vaccine supplier?
https://main.docsplace.org/2020/04/12/bill-gates-id2020-china-coronavirus-connections/?utm_source=whatfinger
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April 13, 2020 10:29am
- Inandout
  
  Kev if Bill’s virus ideas are anywhere as reliable as MS products….
  
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  April 13, 2020 10:40am
- cmm
  
  Just don’t open too many windows…
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:45pm
Happychappy

Another socialist academic wants his plan for change.
A debt jubilee, universal basic income and the reversal of Globalization are three things Steve Keen wants to see in response to the CORID -19 Pandemic and resulting economic downturn.
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/104502/debt-jubilee-universal-basic-income-and-regionalism-rather-globalisation-are-among-steve
Will Grant Robertson decide to follow this advice as Labour wanted to do a UBI before the 2017 elections and pulled the plug at the last moment as they were hemorrhaging votes over the chance this would be implemented.
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April 13, 2020 10:37am
- dog_eat_dog
  
  A debt jubilee kind of makes sense. People having to pay massive mortgages for inflated house prices means less disposable cash to splash around during a recovery, especially in the face of job losses. Could be the difference between wholesale house price collapse and a gentle deflationary period. It’s pretty much the only part there that stacks up.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:10am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Just another barrow pusher
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:31pm
- Nickc2
  
  There is every chance Happychappy. Don’t give these bastards ideas.
  
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  April 13, 2020 3:54pm
surfing

Trump has taken the position that covid-19 is not that serious and America would be back in business by Easter.

I don’t bother making predictions when it comes to Trump, but I wonder how his handling of covid-19 will affect his chances in the next election?
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April 13, 2020 10:41am
- SGA
  
  Interesting question, and probably too early to tell. Among his most diehard supporters and fervent detractors, nothing much will change. But I imagine that he was counting on a very strong economy to woo the ones in between, especially those who have reservations about his unique style of presidency. It’s a lot harder to campaign on what might have been, so how he is perceived as handling this major challange will probably be very important. Time will tell.
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:35am
- Surely Knott
  
  Lots of focus on Trump. But…. March 17 Stuff ,”Schools, universities, polytechnics and early-childhood centres have been labelled “very, very safe places” to be despite the coronavirus pandemic.” ???!!!!???
  “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced on Monday that gatherings of at least 500 people were banned, prompting a cascade of event cancellations across the country.
  Schools and universities were exempt from the decision, with Ardern saying specific advice on how those institutions would contribute to stamping out Covid-19 would be delivered by the Ministry of Education.”
  “We’ve also got to keep in mind that transmission rates internationally amongst young people are very, very low. School-aged students are not the target population, if you like.” said Chris Hipkins
  
  School aged students may be less susceptible to the symptoms and impact of the virus but my understanding is they were just as likely to transmit it?
  
  So it wasn’t just the US leadership that flip flopped in their messaging and approach. But it is just the USA and UK who are subject to any scrutiny.
  
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  April 13, 2020 12:25pm
  - burt
    
    Exactly, imagine if 2 days before jumping level 1 of a 4 stage plan Trump was still pushing ahead with a mass public gathering photo op.
    
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    April 13, 2020 12:33pm
  - SGA
    
    School aged students may be less susceptible to the symptoms and impact of the virus but my understanding is they were just as likely to transmit it?
    
    As I understand it, a major way that the virus spreads is in droplets from coughing (which get on surfaces or hands, and then onto other people’s hands). If children are relatively asymptomatic (no cough), then you could argue that they are less likely to spread it. But that would only be less likely; for example, they could have a cough from a parallel infection, orhave it on their hands when they come to school from touching something.
    
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    April 13, 2020 2:00pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Styx usually gets it right. According to him: yes, Trump will win.
  
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  April 13, 2020 12:27pm
Maggie Pie

Right. We’re off to the park to walk the dog.

It’s our right.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVYqLvlXYAA7WCp?format=jpg&name=small
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April 13, 2020 10:41am
- brett68
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7852909/Muslims-pray-rain-Bonython-Park-Adelaide-amid-bushfire-drought-crisis.html
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:28pm
MrTips

I’m surprised there was room in the bubble for anything other than her massive ego and hair.
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April 13, 2020 10:49am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I can’t abide that woman, I really really can’t.
  
  18 1
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  April 13, 2020 11:19am
  - Fletch
    
    While we’re on the subject of obnoxious women, whose idea was it to let that pathetic woman onto Seven Sharp – the one who thinks she is funny? Can’t stand her. Have to switch channels when she comes on.
    
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    April 13, 2020 12:53pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  I can’t abide her hair, ego or crazy name spelling. It just wants to be pronounced Socksie, Sucksie or Syucksie!
  
  12 1
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  April 13, 2020 12:29pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Who really cares? Just one look at her picture says it all.
    
    12 1
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    April 13, 2020 12:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Blame her parents. Silly first name syndrome – unless she changed it herself, then blame her
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:11pm
hullkiwi

Question, has anyone worked out who the secret cluster in Auckland are? That they should meet 2 days before the lockdown.

My bet is it was a bunch of politicians, given the absence of many of them from our screens.
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April 13, 2020 11:14am
- burt
  
  Maybe it’s a group of people who turned up in NZ for the March 15th commemoration?
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:35am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Burt could be Iranian for example?
    
    6 1
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    April 13, 2020 1:40pm
Ruahine

Perhaps we should be having a similar conversation.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6148272237001
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April 13, 2020 11:20am
emmess

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52264247/boris-johnson-thanks-nhs-staff-for-coronavirus-treatment

Come on Boris
Yeah yeah, nurses did their job they were supposed to, that’s great.
Tell us what we want to know, were you treated with with Hydroxy?
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April 13, 2020 11:34am
- burt
  
  Next you’ll be asking how our trials went…
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12318588
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:45am
  - emmess
    
    How did our trials go?
    I am glad to hear that our government’s case of TDS is not so acute as to endanger lives
    
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-reverses-course-on-trump-touted-coronavirus-drugs
    
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    April 13, 2020 11:57am
    - burt
      
      I don’t know, I guess we’ll need to put in an OIA and wait 2 months for our most transparent government ever to determine how to report the findings and how much of the report to redact.
      
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      April 13, 2020 12:29pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Good on nurse Jenny from Invercargill
  
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  April 13, 2020 11:56am
- MCos
  
  Here is a step by step walk through of one person’s experience with Covid-19
  
  https://twitter.com/noopurrajemd/status/1246905651491717122?s=21
  
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  April 13, 2020 1:29pm
  - MCos
    
    His treatment included #HydroxychloroquineAndAzithromycin
    
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    April 13, 2020 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

Bumper Sticker on 500SL in Remmers NW carpark:

EAT THE GREENS

😀
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April 13, 2020 12:03pm
Don the Kiwi

19 new cases, 571 recovered, 1 more death.

Time to go back to Level 2.
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April 13, 2020 1:30pm
- Prince
  
  Why was the death not announced up front ?
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:38pm
JibberJabber

Is there a special Stupidity Test that the cops have to pass now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvrj2jKr98g&feature=emb_logo
Coming soon to a house near you.
Caution Language ?
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April 13, 2020 1:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The test is a pre requisite before allowed into police training school.
  Cops are a different breed to what they were 30 – 40 years ago
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:17pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep, intelligence tests are no longer part of the entry criteria for police recruits. So long as you are a Maori, PI, Asian or a Brit Re-tread, you are in. If you don’t have a sense of humour, its an added advantage.
    
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    April 13, 2020 4:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Brit re-tread and never born with a sense of humour is down to a T.
      I must be fair – I know two good guys – two, in the whole of New Zealand.
      See pom cops? I spelled “New Zealand” so you don’t have to search ‘NZ’ on your police database
      
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      April 13, 2020 5:47pm
- kowtow
  
  To be fair the chick had a “rainbow” lanyard so was making a very obvious display of her colours.
  
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  April 13, 2020 7:36pm
bruceavon

Does anyone else get annoyed at the journalists questions at the daily press conferences? They yell over each other and the same woman seems to win most of time. Then asks the dumbest questions. Today she asked when we will open the borders? ffs?? We only just successfully closed them, and secured them. I can’t see us opening them for months. Aussie said they will likely be closed for the rest of the year. Then after Ardern said they hadn’t even thought of that yet. another woman said. “Can you give us a date?” Please cut off the broadcast after the officials speak. I can’t take the stupidity.
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April 13, 2020 1:46pm
- Prince
  
  I warmed to Bloomfield with his answer to the reporter who asks every day about what advice he would give to Maori.
  ‘Same advice as I give to every New Zealander’ was the essence of his answer.
  Give that man a medal.
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That ‘same woman’ I think is Tova. She asks the questions dear leader has told her to ask
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:18pm
  - Prince
    
    Cartainly seem to be some scripted questions there for sure.
    
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    April 13, 2020 6:21pm
Lucia Maria

Thought I’d listen to the 1pm PM briefing on the virus and had to turn the radio off, but not before catching the gist that people in resthomes are dying so we need to stay in lockdown.

Seriously, most residents of resthomes leave feet first. Maybe the virus is killing them off faster or maybe getting no visitors in their last days is what is doing them in.

Anyway, could not cope with Jacinda’s concerned voice. Pity she wasn’t asked about this story: Doctors desperate to get message across that Kiwis needing medical help can still be treated

Dr Howe says he believes patients are avoiding going to the doctor because of fears they’ll catch Covid-19 while getting treatment.

“A lot of the avoidance has been due to fear, fear that coming to see your GP could predispose you to higher risk of getting the infection. All of that is not true.”

He says he’s also had patients coming in late after putting up with fractures for much longer than they should have. One patient walked around for days with a nail in their foot.

“Doctors want you not to put it off because delaying a neglected fracture for four weeks of lockdown is harder to treat. Delaying a ruptured appendicitis or a melanoma can kill.”

Except, the virus is apparently so dangerous that the whole country has been locked down. So is it really that dangerous or not? Or are the consequences of prioritising it over EVERYTHING else potentially worse?

Rather than pleading with potential patients to come in and get treated despite the lockdown, medicos ought to be pleading with those in charge instead.
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April 13, 2020 1:46pm
- Ruahine
  
  The logic behind what comes out of the Prime Ministers mouth is so trivial. Perhaps she now has a guilty conscience because of all the people who were allowed to wander through the airports onto domestic flights etc and start spreading the virus within NZ.
  
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  April 13, 2020 3:36pm
- GoVege
  
  “Maybe getting no visitors in their last days is what is doing them in”.
  Probably is!
  I read recently that loneliness is more damaging to old people’s health than most medical conditions.
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:12pm
DeepBlue

Anyone else notice Dr Bloomfield say we will be looking at when the Bluff cluster guests arrived in NZ and if they were in the days before the wedding whether the controls at the border were sufficient?

I am pleased.
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April 13, 2020 1:47pm
- Ruahine
  
  Perhaps I could help you Dr Bloomfield. The controls at the border insufficient obviously. While you are at it check on all the other clusters as well including the ‘secret’ ones.
  
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  April 13, 2020 3:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I guess they arrived before the wedding and not after.
  Just a guess. It was another silly patsy question by the media
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:21pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUKY90JdDA
The FBI knew the Steel Dossier was suspect according to footnotes on de-classified documents.
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April 13, 2020 1:48pm
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/news/rising-unemployment-from-virus-fight-threatens-chinas-poverty-targets/
Chinas economy slows due to CCP virus precautions. The CCPs tacit agreement with the people about exchanging democracy for rising living standards is in danger. Expect things to get worse there if millions of foreign consumers adopt an ABC strategy, and supply chains move elsewhere.
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April 13, 2020 1:49pm
Critical Thinker

NZ on day 19 of the tyrannical lockdown:
15 new confirmed cases of the CCP-Virus.
15 currently in hospital. 4 of them are in ICU.
5 elderly people have died with the CCP-Virus.

It’s unarguably time to downgrade this lockdown to level 3, and properly secure our borders. As this extreme level 4 lockdown is proving to be far more devastating to our lives than the virus at this point.
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April 13, 2020 1:56pm
Maggie Pie

A friend txts that her husband got sooo angry with himself for misplacing the Stool sample he was supposed to drop off to the lab. He completely lost his shit.
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April 13, 2020 1:57pm
- Inandout
  
  Oh Maggie, you are so cheeky, but crack along and bottoms up nevertheless.
  
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  April 13, 2020 2:05pm
- Fletch
  
  I hate giving stool samples. It makes one of the legs shorter than the other two.
  
  12 1
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  April 13, 2020 2:10pm
- stigie
  
  Labs are closed at the moment Maggie, best he does a fresh one after the lockdown,,?
  
  7 1
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  April 13, 2020 3:21pm
JackRabbit

And now he is in the crap.
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April 13, 2020 2:15pm
MrTips

Breaking news: Jacinda contacts nurse who helped Boris get better.

Apparently, the PM wants to know how to actually make decisions on her own and in proper time.
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April 13, 2020 2:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Very droll, very good!
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:25pm
Pheobe

A new interpretation of being poor.

6 year old Annie comes home from school and says that today she had her first family planning lesson.
Her mother, very interested, asks “oh how did it go”.
“I nearly died of shame!” She answers.
“Sam down the road says the stork brings babies.
Sally next door said you can buy babies from the orphanage.
Pete in my class says you can buy babies at the hospital.”
Her mother answers laughingly, “but that’s no reason to be ashamed.”
“No…but I cant tell them we were so poor that you and daddy had to make me yourselves!”
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April 13, 2020 3:01pm
Chuck Bird

I am sure I heard a question about Peters fishing which Cindy dodged. Has anyone seen a report of him fishing after lockdown?
20 3
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April 13, 2020 3:12pm
- burt
  
  All animals are equal comrade.
  
  11 2
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  April 13, 2020 3:19pm
  - stigie
    
    Is Winston wanting some attention so puts up an old photo..?
    
    9 1
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    April 13, 2020 3:40pm
  - niggly
    
    Talking about controlling the masses’ groupthink, on Magictalk this morning a caller rang in to ask Simon Bridges (who was being interviewed, live) when he is traveling between Tauranga and Wellington, and after getting out of the car “why are you shaking people’s hands (as in the TV1 news footage)”? Bridges replied he doesn’t, to ensure he remains in his bubble, but instead TVNZ used some old footage of him doing so!
    
    State TV – seems to happily be part Orwellian!
    
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    April 13, 2020 3:51pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Old footage? The MSM do that.
      
      15 1
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      April 13, 2020 4:09pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Here you go Chucky Doll….. 😀
  
  https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1249484820423397376
  
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  April 13, 2020 3:48pm
cmm

Some twit needing rescuing:
https://www.flightradar24.com/ZKIGI/245a5b9d
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April 13, 2020 4:00pm
rightoverlabour

I am sick of the Narkers. If somebody wants to surf, let them be. If they get into shit and drown, so be it. This lock down has definitely brought the worst out in terms of anti social behavior. This lock down is psychologically tough on many people. If going for a drive or a walk on the beach reduces stress, let it be. Rather that, than family violence or suicide. ( Actually Bloomfield should deliver suicide stats as well as Covid 19 deaths each day).
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April 13, 2020 4:17pm
Maggie Pie

Snitching on a few surfers at Takapuna Beach.
Ethel has lived there for years and has been waiting for this moment most of her life.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVcgbfdWoAEbteU?format=jpg&name=small
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April 13, 2020 4:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yup, and there is more than one Ethel. Some of them are so far up themselves they think it is their beach, and the rif raf should not be allowed.
  That would explain why a breakwater has never been built, to ease that NE blow and swell (dangerous)
  Check Waikiki – it works there
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:33pm
- Nickc2
  
  I didn’t know Hillary Barry lived on Takapuna Beach.
  
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  April 13, 2020 4:37pm
  - MrTips
    
    She doesn’t. She lives on her own planet.
    
    15 1
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    April 13, 2020 5:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oooooh, she got burned!
    
    15 2
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    April 13, 2020 5:40pm
MrTips

Baroness Thatcher:

“Do you know that one of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.”

She also said: “Marxists get up early in the morning to further their cause. We must get up even earlier to defend our freedom.”

NZ could do with a Thatcher right now.
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April 13, 2020 5:21pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Not too many thatched roofs in NZ needing attention though.
  
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  April 13, 2020 6:46pm
  - JamesP
    
    I’m sure Labour’s economic genius will have us ungrateful peons living in squalid conditions soon enough. You might want to beat the rush(es) and learn the trade.
    
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    April 13, 2020 8:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Prob a waste of time with this TDS infested blog at the moment.
https://teamtrumpusa.com/president-trump-reposted-a-tweet-calling-for-fauci-to-be-fired/?fbclid=IwAR10-DMtSraTYXziuTVgJbsC7vQ1FvQbfE_yZRXuPSf1_zQU-tddE-OUsmg
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April 13, 2020 5:55pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Fire the experts!
  
  3 9
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  April 13, 2020 6:38pm
Surely Knott

From Sydney Morning Herald on our Elimination Strategy, “Mathematicians in New Zealand have estimated there is a 50 per cent chance that their current restrictions will eliminate the virus in 90 days from lockdown (about 11 weeks from now), and their estimates are consistent with modelling from the universities of Sydney and Melbourne. ”
90 Days!!!! The models for an elimination strategy are 90 days. Not 28 days.
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April 13, 2020 6:06pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Nup. Civil disobedience will be the result.
  The virus will NEVER be eliminated – better to ease up, & get some herd immunity going.
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:07pm
- JamesP
  
  It depends if we can keep the rate of infection below 1 when we re-enter level 3.
  Of course, if we did that the first time around then we wouldn’t have needed level 4.
  And if we had implemented decent border control earlier then we wouldn’t have needed level 3.
  Betting on Labour to achieve competence is always a risky proposition!
  
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  April 13, 2020 8:20pm
Swifty

Oh dear, bribery and corruption in NZ among people from countries where bribery and corruption are entrenched:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120687772/police-probe-bribery-claims-surrounding-nzs-main-muslim-organisation

Who would have guessed?
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April 13, 2020 6:15pm
niggly

Sir Bob Jones has just smashed Labour out of the park!

https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/04/13/the-coming-economic-crisis-and-its-political-consequences/
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April 13, 2020 8:21pm
- GoVege
  
  Good old Bob talks total sense as usual.
  There was no need to close down so many businesses, stop people self-isolating at their baches or ban swimming, fishing etc.
  Hundreds of businesses are in danger of folding.
  The population are under house arrest when all they needed to do was keep a distance from others.
  When will this madness end??
  
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  April 13, 2020 9:05pm
I remember when

Japan/Australia/Taiwan/Thailand/Indonesia/Malaysia/Vietnam/Phillipines 746.06 million people 994 deaths. UK/USA/Germany/France/Italy/Spain 652.83 million 87,250 deaths. Any thoughts?
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April 14, 2020 9:54am

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