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April 16, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 April 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

The cornerstone of strong leadership is asking the right questions, rather than believing you have the right answers. It’s about surrounding yourself with highly competent people to asks these questions of, and then doing what’s right no matter the optics or personal cost.

On these measures Ardern scores a large FAIL grade.

She had competent people to ask questions of, but she sidelined them instead surrounding herself with sycophants and media-led cheer squads. Rather than ask the right questions, her answer has been to copy the most authoritarian responses from distant and demographically/culturally dissimilar countries .. and then to beef them up because, apparently, the optics make her look strong.

Ardern’s ‘strength’ is nothing but a giant wrecking ball crashing through New Zealand – though our social fabric, and through our economy. Treasury tried to calculate the damage in economic terms, but that doesn’t come close to factoring the physiological and emotional costs New Zealanders are going to be paying for decades.

Ardern isn’t a leader. He actions show her to be a self-serving person, someone ill-prepared for office and intent on self-advancement at all costs. Hard working New Zealanders deserve better.
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April 16, 2020 8:00am
- brett68
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Neither is Simon Bridges.
  Hard working New Zealanders deserve better.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:08am
- ronsegal
  
  Ardern is actually a damn good cheerleader.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:12am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yea, for Stalinism!
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:46am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      You don’t actually know what Stalinism is do you?
      It’s actually very very far from what the government are doing.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:30am
      - Nickc2
        
        BS, I read history books too. I will give you some credit though, there have been no executions – YET!
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:51am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Morons gotta be moronic. Don’t expect the foolish, insulting and offensive references to Stalinism, Nazis or the Stasi to stop anytime soon.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:25am
      - Jack5
        
        Not Stalinism, but plenty of infringements of our freedom, like recommendations on bail and prison release:
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/414370/recommendations-to-push-back-release-of-virus-risk-prisoners-condemned
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:24am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Too old.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:32am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Ron,
    
    Cheerleaders are actually attractive and full of positive energy and want their team to win.
    
    NZ is her ‘actual’ team and she doesn’t want it to win. She is actually playing for some other side.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:44am
    - JackRabbit
      
      In fact most of the Labour party stalwarts are playing for ‘the other team’ in one way, shape, or form.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:57am
    - ronsegal
      
      Cheerleaders certainly need to convey an impression, as you describe. Can have little to do with reality.
      
      Leadership by emotion rather than thought.
      
      Ardern has a knack of hitting right buttons in that regard.
      
      Nothing wrong with cheerleading as a competitive sport though.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:39am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    Let her go to the bloody UN and be a cheerleader , because that is all those type of people are
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:33pm
- SGA
  
  She had competent people to ask questions of, but she sidelined them instead surrounding herself with sycophants and media-led cheer squads.
  
  For the last few weeks, I have been hearing a lot about people like Bloomfield, Baker, and Skegg – such people don’t seem to be sidelined (or, are these the sycophants?).
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:16am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Sir David Skegg is most certainly not a cheerleader for the Government. He has appeared three times before the Epidemic Response Committee, and on each occasion has been highly critical of some of the measures the Government has adopted.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:38am
    - SGA
      
      Exactly, Tony.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:54am
    - PhilBest
      
      The big question is actually not coming up, and I see no evidence Skegg is on the right side on this.
      
      https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealand-lockdown-rules-should-be-relaxed-local-health-experts-say-20200414-p54jkt.html
      
      These experts are the right ones. All the official response can come up with is “the models”. And the very point the critics are making is that the models are GIGO!
      
      We badly need a constitutional provision where an evidence-based challenge to the basis for imposing a Police State overnight, can be swiftly heard before a panel (judges? maybe others as well) who have the power to overturn it.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:56am
  - Tall Man
    
    Yet she is not listening to Skeggs. Is that the same as being sidelined?
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:28am
- CJames
  
  kk That first paragraph is so true. Rather than using thinktank teams of epidemiology and virology professors, her main advisors seem to be a physics professor for modelling (which he always got orders of magnitude wrong yet still has faith in his model) and a flame haired lecturer who also gets it wrong. There is also no team doing genuine cost-benefit analysis on the effects of lockdown.
  If that is the quality of advice, it makes one think sycophancy is more important than expertise.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:21am
  - CJames
    
    Judith Curry has written a very thoughtful post on all the pandemic modelling going on, mostly by people outside their area of expertise and why she is staying well away from it.
    https://judithcurry.com/2020/04/14/in-favor-of-epistemic-trespassing/#more-25965
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:05am
    - PhilBest
      
      Love this….
      
      “All these people exhorting amateurs to “stay in their lane” and not muddy the waters by providing analyses and articles about the COVID-19 pandemic would have an easier job of it if it wasn’t for the supposed experts churning out dross on an industrial scale.”
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Perhaps Judith Curry should stay in her ‘own lane’, instead of branching out into epidemiology.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:28am
      - CJames
        
        Shows yet again milky that you didn’t read the article before passing comment. How unusual for you (sarc) She didn’t branch into epidemiology or construct a model, though I suppose you will now consult your dictionary to prove black is white.
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:01am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It is ONLY on this blog that people are saying our government, and following from that, our Prime Minister, has done badly.
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/14/asia/women-government-leaders-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html
  
  New Zealand is, at worst, one of the better countries worldwide at dealing with this pandemic.
  
  I suggest you pull your head out of your butt, and actually start considering what the country has done relative to other countries.
  
  Consider Sweden, or UK, or the USA, where thousands have died unnecessarily.
  
  Now THAT is a failure of leadership.
  
  There is no room for partisanship in the real world. It blinds you to reality. More and more the dissenting voices on this blog slide into irrelevancy. Worse, they start to sound like misogynistic idiocy with their “SLG” and “fish and chips” rubbish. It’s all bullshit.
  
  Have a good look around. And grow up.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:21am
  - CJames
    
    Simon
    You are very selective in your data, commonly called cherrypicking. Sweden is doing a lot better in COVID management than France Germany or Spain, which has very strict lockdown. Why? We are doing about the same as Australia in cases (and they had all the ship patients we didn’t get) yet they haven’t collapsed their economy. Why is that?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:24am
    - CJames
      
      Simon
      This here shows the effect of your cherrypicking.
      https://unherd.com/2020/04/jury-still-out-on-swedish-coronavirus-strategy/
      Your talking points have already been debunked. The deaths are a function of the hospital admission patients’ ages and comorbidities – they bear little co-relation to the number of confirmed cases.
      Look at the numbers of confirmed cases of COVID per million population as of this morning.
      Sweden 1181, Norway 1243 Denmark 1153
      Now what is the effect of lockdown? Rather makes a mockery of your statements doesn’t it.
      Fraser House is slipping up on its instructions if you are getting such shoddy information .
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:42am
      - Stu2
        
        Sweden (119) is doing worse in terms of deaths per million cf Norway (28), Finland (13), Denmark (53) and Germany (43)
        
        The fact that its cases per million are similar to some of those is probably down to relative test volumes
        
        Sweden (7387/million), Norway (24020), Denmark (13417), Finland (8813), Germany (20629)
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:23am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Sorry, I’m completely independent, as are most people here. I would hardly suggest this blog is predominated by National Party paid or instructed submitters.
        
        My point is, and I think you missed it, that were we to follow the Swedish lead we would have significantly more deaths than we currently have, and our population would not tolerate that.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:33am
      - burt
        
        Sorry, I’m completely independent, as are most people here.
        
        That’s your response when hit up about your comment;
        
        It is ONLY on this blog that people are saying our government, and following from that, our Prime Minister, has done badly.
        
        I recommend you first think about your position and your facts – then try using your fingers on the keyboard.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:45am
      - CJames
        
        Stu2 Sweden has more deaths per million than the countries you named, but less than Netherland or Switzerland. And the serious/ critical cases seem to take different ratios to either deaths or cases. Stop cherrypicking.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:17pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Australia has significantly more deaths per capita than NZ. Its population is differently spread out to NZ. Australia will also be in a Level 3 situation for around six months. That may yet cause even more economic devastation that NZ’s short sharp shock does.
      Sweden has 1200 deaths with only twice our population. We wouldn’t like that here. Most here would be calling for Jacinda Ardern’s head were we to have 600 deaths by now.
      As for cherry picking, what I am doing is at worst no different to anyone else here. Were I to quote all of the statistics and try to make sense of them all I would have to spend six months and produce a thesis. Like most people here, I spend about 30 seconds to a minute to write a post. I can’t quote everything in that time.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:56am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Rather don’t.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:04am
      - fernglas
        
        Simon, what makes you think this is to be a short, sharp shock? By locking everyone up and pretending the virus can be eradicated you are depriving people of the chance to develop immunity. So when there is an easing up on restrictions, the bug will come back. A vaccine may never be made. Have you tried offsetting the social costs of this illness against the possible death tolls? You simply can’t keep people locked up and under coercive control forever.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:34am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I hope you are not one of the Fraser House Mob.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:35am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        It’s called debate dude.
        
        Trying to shut me up because you disagree with what I say, rather than coming up with a well-thought out rebuttal is anathema to the concept of good debate.
        
        And also, dare I say it on this blog, a form of censorship.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:35am
      - rouppe
        
        I’m not sure that we will have a “short sharp shock”.
        
        We will be in Level 4 a minimum of 4 weeks. I think the announcement on April 20 will be along the lines of “we can move into Level 3 but we will take 1-2 weeks of more measured activity to get there. I think it will be of a form where more businesses will open, bit by bit. First butchers and greengrocers and Mitre10 etc. Then review the effect, and so on.
        
        This means we will effectively be in L4 for around 6 weeks. At Level 3 those businesses that failed won’t reopen. Many of those that are teetering will fail. I think we will be in Level 3 for no less than 1-2 months. Then 4-6 months in L2. I think there will be at least one re-surge in cases which will either hold a particular level longer or cause a move back up a level.
        
        But… That is all speculation 🙂
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:09am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Australia has significantly more deaths per capita than NZ.
        
        No!!
        They are identical at 2/1M population.
        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:20am
      - Jack5
        
        Maggy: thank you for the correct deaths ratio.
        
        Simon G.: FFS look at Taiwan’s Covid-19 strategy and results. (See Bob Jones thread today for how to get the details).
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:27am
      - donny
        
        I think you make a good point Simon.
        
        I think it’s incredibly difficult to tell at the moment if the lockdown approach taken by various nations is superior to the business as usual approach taken by others. Or the 3rd option of partial lockdown taken by the likes of Australia will be the optimal strategy.
        
        NZ’s hard lockdown may just be delaying the inevable. One study says it would take 12 weeks to elimate COVID 50% of the time. Or it may be a stroke of briallance. Who really knows at the moment.
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:47am
      - CJames
        
        Michael Reddell shoots down a lot of the Australia comparison here and compares us unfavourably to Taiwan
        https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-economics-and-policy-from-the-mailbox/
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:56am
      - CJames
        
        I see my downtickers didn’t bother reading the very well researched article – Oh well, to be expected. It must be so upsetting for them that they can’t do a twitter pile on. We can be grateful to the moderators for that.
        
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        April 16, 2020 1:41pm
    - SGA
      
      Sweden is doing a lot better in COVID management than France Germany or Spain, which has very strict lockdown.
      
      How’s Sweden doing compared with the obvious comparisons – Norway, Finland, and Denmark?
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:04am
      - Tall Man
        
        I still believe we need a better delineation between dying with or from.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:33am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Go here and pop Sweden, NZ, Norway and Finland in. Change to linear scale. Report back.
        
        https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Tall Man
        
        Dying with
        Dying from
        Dying without but tagged as with
        Dying probably from
        Dying from the flu so retagged as Dying from
        Dying with some symptoms but never tested
        Dying from pre-existing medical conditions
        Dying from, but would also have died from a bad flu – Oh dear, Covid-19 is a bad flu.
        Dying from or with, but had a generic corona virus that tested positive because testing was not specific.
        Fudged Dying from because it gets more funding or gets silly people media coverage.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:50am
  - emmess
    
    CNN? What a joke
    We have no time for moronic identity politics, anymore.
    Having a woman leader is nothing to do with how a country has performed.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:26am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Of for fucks sake emmess. I’m over this bullshit about “I don’t believe them because they have a political bias”. Stuff you partisan bullshit right up your butt. Argue the information, not the source. Ad hominem is for idiots.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:57am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Simon
        I’m over your tweaking hearts bullshit too.
        
        Incomes for poor people who need jobs for their families…..
        Small Business owners losing all, ALL.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:06am
      - BobbyS
        
        Dear MODS
        Yesterday i said Simon Wilson can shove his head up his arse and you deleted it saying it was OTT
        What about this comment from another Simon above about shoving stuff up arses too – consistency please.
        XXX
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:11am
      - Ruawai
        
        Any money the Government spends is taxpayer money which will start to run out if they spend it all, any money the government borrows will have to be paid back by taxpayers in the future. Either way employers and employees pay for anything the Government spends.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:26am
      - Isobar
        
        To be fair small businesses probably wouldn’t be doing so well if we had to start burying people in mass graves either.
        
        Im glad i live here rather than some of the infested countries that have seen countless people die for no good reason other than leadership vacuums and intransigence.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:06am
      - emmess
        
        Even CNN’s most prominent host finds his job ridiculous
        
        https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/chris-cuomo-i-dont-like-being-on-tv-want-to-fight-critics.html
        
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        April 16, 2020 1:02pm
  - cmm
    
    “Consider Sweden, or UK, or the USA, where thousands have died unnecessarily.”
    
    Died with, not died from.
    
    Most of the deaths in USA are in NYC and are not much to do with leadership but are more to do with the structure of NYC. Around 10 million rides per day in crowded subways and buses is the perfect way to spread a virus.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:27am
    - SGA
      
      cmm
      
      Died with, not died from.
      
      meh – and likewise AIDS never killed anyone – just made it much much easier for them to die of other things. Doesn’t mean the AIDS isn’t a deadly condition.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:01am
      - Sacha
        
        @ SGA: the ‘other things’ are what enables one to die from CV19.
        AIDS is what enables people to die from ‘other things’.
        There is a difference!
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:07pm
      - cmm
        
        SGA That is a ridiculous thing to say.
        
        Covid19 is mainly killing the old people that already had many preexisting conditions (heart problems, diabetes, etc) and almost all old frail people.
        
        AIDS kills mainly younger people who were perfectly healthy before they contracted HIV.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:17pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I think density of living has a lot to do with it too. That said, with dense living comes proximity of persons using public transport.
      Now for a reality check with regard to NZ.
      1. our local governments (councils) are promoting and approving high rise apartments, high density housing clusters and high density retirement villages.
      2. Use of public transport and abandonment of private motor vehicles (this is inclusive of (1) above where such abodes are being built with no vehicle garages and/or limited vehicle parking.
      I also wonder if the deaths involved with Christchurch’s Nursing Home could in some way be attributed to living density and thus the multitude of ambient and largely invisible/un-diagnosed diseases that were probably existing and COVID-19 was the one that inhabitants immune systems were unable to combat.
      Mods please note, this post is an hypothesis, not a conspiracy theory .
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:20am
      - PhilBest
        
        Anyone familiar with the Dementia Units at rest homes will understand that controlling hygiene there is a Sisyphean task for the poor staff. You have confined a whole lot of adults in there who have the toilet habits of 8-month-olds.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:09am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The other issue with the Rosewood/Burwood cluster is that three Burwood staff have already tested positive to coronavirus, even though patients were only transferred to Burwood at the beginning of last week.
        
        Michael Morrah from Newshub had a piece last night that the Canterbury DHB has only just provided appropriate PPE to the staff at Burwood, which if it is correct is appalling. The DHB has a duty of care to its staff and its patients, and if it hasn’t taken all practicable steps to protect staff from coronavirus, I would suggest it will be having to answer some very searching questions.
        
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/christchurch-dhb-to-provide-more-ppe-to-burwood-hospital-but-nurses-are-scared-it-s-not-enough.html
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:20pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Really? Because CNN says so? It is not just this blog. In my case it is my neighbour over the fence, most of my friends, all of my family and all of my business associates. I don’t know where you are, but I am guessing Wellington with a guaranteed income.
    
    And BTW you can find several online commentators and blogs that are scathing of what this government and its cheering fans have done.
    
    This virus overwhelmingly is a danger to people over 80. I care. My mother is 83. So here is an idea. Isolate the old people.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:29am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yeah, I’m from Welly. No, my income is not guaranteed. Hence why I have time to come on here and debate things with you all.
      I think the isolation of those at risk is a good thing. But I have concerns. Because we could have the rest home scenario en masse. We could run the risk of setting up something a bit like death camps were w to do it in special faciltiies. And simply asking them to stay home is fraught too.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:59am
      - Sacha
        
        I am in my 80’s. I live alone. I am busy caring for my rural property. I have never had the flu – and have never been immunised. I have no ‘co-morbidities’. I need no medications.
        I get irritated when I am told to stay at home simply because I am over 70 – REALLY irritated!
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:23pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m over 80 and we have to take it as we find it. We dodge the flu each year and hope to come back for the next round. Life is never guaranteed but wannabe controllers are in freefall.
      Not exposing the basic population to the virus is only delaying the event. It could be worse too if the virus has mutated and it’s start all over again. The lesson from the Diamond Princess was it was a fair risk with only 7 deaths from a tested close together population of 3,711. Those deaths were all in the 80+ cohort.
      We are now keeping out the main source group overseas travellers but the residual numbers of carriers are few enough to let the population at large take the risk. The overall costs of lockdown will be much worse. Already a horrendous finance bill has been incurred and the potential for further businesses to go under is very high. I have clients whom I worry may not survive another year. A re-start is not like turning on a motor–other people have to make decisions too and their perceived risks will delay decisions. Would you like to be a contractor at present? Kindy words are not sufficient.
      The quicker normal is re-allowed the better. People will die regardless and we have no way of measuring, to give us play stats, other adverse outcomes from a continuing lockdown. Let the elderly deal with their own peculiar risks–they do that all the time.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:52am
      - PhilBest
        
        Just wondering out loud; how many elderly feel like starting a movement, “Not In Our Name” – at the current time. Stop using “us” as your pretext for imposing a Police State and ruining our grandchildren.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:11am
  - Poppa
    
    Simon, comparisons with UK Italy or US are flawed
    
    The number of people living per sqkm is totally different. In New York it is mostly the poorer people who have died because they live in high density areas and don’t have access to high quality healthcare
    
    Those planners pushing for high density housing here should reconsider their positions I think
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:31am
    - Wired-one
      
      10000 people per square kilometer in New York. 18 per square kilometer in NZ.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:18am
  - Michael Rodent
    
    New Zealand’s outcome with Covid has little to thank the PM for. The reason we have been comparatively spared is primarily due to inherent issues – we are an island at the end of the earth, we are sparsely populated, we generally have a population with a good standard of health, we have an environment that is comparatively pollution free, we have a comparatively low incidence of smoking etc.
    If anything the finger can be pointed at the PM for not taking sufficient action – the PM did what she is great at – talking the talk but failed to follow up with decisive action – we did not go hard and fast, we did not have the best border controls in the world, we did not have the best medical facilities in the world, we did not have adequate supplies PPE and testing materials – the opposite was reality.
    Every case of Covid in NZ initially came across our border and the PM (despite her words) dithered in controlling our border properly. How much better would the outcome have been (both medically and economically) if she actually had come down hard and fast and we actually had the best border controls in the world?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:38am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Michael, That is correct.
      On March 1st but better Feb 14th.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:07am
    - Nickc2
      
      You make too much sense Michael.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:29am
  - amospicton
    
    She does not even understand how to make good decisions. This one is effectively lives saved from covid-19 on one side versus lives lost from the stress etc of the lockdown plus the economic costs on the other. Far too much emphasis is being put on the former and not enough on the latter. Ultimately solving the equation means putting a dollar value on a life. Recognising also that those dying from covid-19 probably had a life expectancy of 2 years or so whereas those lost to economic stress might have 30-40 years. It’s a tough decision to make but the alternative is the current emotion driven muddle.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Yep. They are controllers not battle commanders.
      
      3 2
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      April 16, 2020 10:17am
  - Simon
    
    “Have a good look around. And grow up.”
    
    Lol – links to CNN.
    
    Once home detention ends there will be a good look around. The wreckage of economy as a result of the gutless over reaction to the Wuhan virus will be apparent to everyone except the inbreds from Labour’s tribe.
    
    The cretin response by the Ardern government to the economic failure will only compound the wreckage.
    
    Come to KB for some truth.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:40am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      LOL – links to KB.
      
      “gutless”
      “cretins”
      “inbreds”
      
      You can’t even manage a rebuttal without resorting to name calling.
      
      I’m sitting on my couch with my laptop playing Logical Fallacy Bingo and I’m having the winningest day.
      
      3 25
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      April 16, 2020 9:39am
      - Gazza the Giant
        
        Why the hell would anyone bother with rebuttal with stupidity
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:39pm
    - freethinker
      
      Go to You Stupid Boy for all the truth. No mods and little real nastiness.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:37am
      - Gazza the Giant
        
        LOL , he would be told to f…koff on that site
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:40pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Simon – if you think Kiwiblog is the only place where criticism of the Government is rife, you should perhaps read this piece from Peter Dunne, published this morning on Newsroom:
    
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/15/1129673/end-this-orwellian-version-of-nz
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:40am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      From where I stand, there is both criticism and praise coming to the government, which is exactly how it should be.
      However, to boldly claim (excuse the split infinitive but I’m a Star Trek fan) that most people are against what the government is doing and therefore they are completely wrong and the worst, most incompetent, most corrupt government in the history of New Zealand simply flies in the face of reality.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:02am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Simon
        You are epitome of a Partisan person.
        
        Step out of yourself and think about it.
        
        12 2
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        April 16, 2020 9:10am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I never claimed not to be partisan. I’m obviously more left aligned than most on this blog.
        But I do make an attempt to debate. Apart from telling one person (who deserved it) to pull their head out of their arse, I’ve tried to avoid name calling today, and most other days. God knows some of you try me though…
        I’ll never understand why, rather than actually defend their position, a number of people here resort to the literary equivalent of poo-throwing monkeys.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:42am
    - PhilBest
      
      Good for Dunne, saying that. But I hope his confidence in “Parliament” is not misplaced. National seems to have decided around about 2008 to just let the mainstream media run the country. If this crisis results in them getting a bit of Trump into their spines, that will be a silver lining to the cloud.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:05am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Well worth reading. The Executive in its own echo chamber while Parliament should be hearing and debating matters.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:24am
    - kwkiwigirl
      
      Great article by Dunne.
      
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      April 16, 2020 12:24pm
    - Ruahine
      
      Every word is true. But it will not be reprinted in the the Herald or any other NZMIE paper or Stuff or TV One or Radio NZ.
      Censorship by omission is what prevails in the MSM.
      
      3 1
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      April 16, 2020 12:25pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Good on you, Simon Gotlieb, for continuing to loyally defend your Prime Minister and her colleagues no matter what they say or do – and I say this not in a sarcastic way.
    But I have to disagree with your first sentence that it is only on this blog that people are saying the PM and government has done badly.
    Most (nearly all) the people I know and communicate with (well away from this blog) are not convinced that Ms Ardern knows what she is doing – at all – on any level.
    But I guess, Simon, we mix in different environments. Most of us out here are ordinary, hard working people trying to make the best of things on our own, with little or no access to, or influence with, the people currently in power.
    There is no doubt that power over the people is very important to this government.
    It won’t be relinquished easily.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:40am
    - PhilBest
      
      Exactly – the divide on this issue is becoming pretty clear. The “givers” are clear about the economy. The “takers” aren’t. A critical mass of “takers” is the end of a democracy, to paraphrase Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Wodehouselee
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:08am
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      Her saying yesterday that her plan to redistribute wealth is now , what a disgrace , and all these arseholes supporting her need a good wake up call , how the hell has the right lost 1/3 of its support in 6 weeks , its utter bullshit these spurious so called leaks of the polls can not be true , the poll leaked to day was called Rogue poll FFS
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:44pm
  - Steve James
    
    Not only on this blog fool. Intelligent people throughout New Zealand can see through Ardern’s bullshit. Obviously you can’t or choose not to Simon. Either way you are a twat!
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:42am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Thanks Steve. I just won Logical Fallacy bingo again thanks to your ad hominem response. You have no logical response so you resort to name calling.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:44am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “Intelligent people throughout New Zealand can see through Ardern’s bullshit.” is a logical response to your claim that “It is ONLY on this blog that people are saying our government, and following from that, our Prime Minister, has done badly.”
        
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        April 16, 2020 1:38pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Our economy is ruined and there’s a very fair argument that it didn’t need to be. All those people you’re talking about are only talking about our Coronovirus response, ignoring the massively negative effect on lives via the economy.
    Had we closed the boarders and chosen to quarantine returning kiwis right from the start there would have been ZERO deaths and little effect on our economy so don’t go around lying that they’ve done a good job.
    Delaying our response for March 15th was truly disgusting and only a truly partisan person would think otherwise.
    
    36 2
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    April 16, 2020 8:42am
    - Wired-one
      
      35000 kiwis die every year. We need to put this Wuflu in perspective. Was it really worth the thousand of job losses, hundreds of businesses closing and peoples livelihoods being destroyed? Not in my opinion. If people were actually told the figures around heart attacks, strokes, influenza, suicide and road deaths would we really react the way we have, no is my belief. 100 people on average die of something daily, does it really matter if it was 110 for a few months? It sounds heartless, but the economic outcomes will be far worse than this pandemic will ever be. It amazes me that it has taken this long for people to start to question our approach.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:30am
      - Jigsaw
        
        Wired : Completely agree and if you read the figures the stunning thing is that if you examine the causes of death you find that as an example no causes of death in the UK are recorded as being for ‘flu but for the actual cause such as an underlying cause like cancer even if the final cause was a respiratory infection. If you think about that then some of the 9 deaths already attributed to the virus is this country may have meant that without the virus around those people could have died anyway within days even of the virus causing their death.
        
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        April 16, 2020 4:41pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    I guess its a perspective thing Simon. Deaths. Or economic catastrophe? Which leads to wider misery?
    
    And I’ve read many offshore articles waxing lyrical about our PM. Those writers do not have the misfortune to see her day to day ineptitude. Form over substance.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:12am
  - rouppe
    
    I’m of the opinion that looking at just one metric to measure success is wrong. Having the least number of deaths, or deaths per million is a very narrow measure of success.
    
    We are running a very real risk of losing sight of the health of the nation in a pursuit of health of all the indivduals.
    
    Put another way: Imagine you were invited to a kids birthday party. When your child arrived they were consigned to a particular spot in the room, and were unable to move from there. There was still music, and everyone got some cake, but no-one could move from their designated spot. At the end of the party, the host proudly proclaimed “no-one had any injuries!” But do you think anyone would ever want to go to a party at that place ever again?
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:33am
- JibberJabber
  
  https://twitter.com/Redbaiternz/status/1249919048734765056
  
  All you need to know, Comrade.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:26am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s a great pity ol’ Reddy couldn’t cope on Kiwiblog anymore. I miss him.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:32am
- oldpark
  
  @krazykiwi 8.00 am
  Agree. Also when she is being checked for the deadly lurgy,she should also be checked for something even more deadly. “Narcissistic Personality Disorder” . Just saying.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:26am
  - PhilBest
    
    What we are also seeing today is the phenomenon of power “intoxicating” those who are weilding it. They really see themselves as some kind of Messiah. It doesn’t help that they are surrounded by sycophantic groupies.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:59am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Why?
    
    On what medical basis do you arrive at that?
    
    I’ll help:
    https://www.medscape.com/answers/1519417-101764/what-are-the-dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria-for-narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:03am
    - amospicton
      
      Check out her use of “I” versus “we” Simon – she only recognises the input of others if the action in question is controversial. Narcissism.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:14am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Interesting. I see it another way. I see it as a deliberate attempt to take responsibility for a difficult call, rather than to deflect blame to others, like a certain orange skinned fellow from across the big ditch.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s interesting. See if you can guess who said these two:
        “I alone can fix it” – 2016
        “I take no responsibility at all” – 2020
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:21pm
      - Nickc2
        
        How true, definitely not a team player. I think that’s a Stalinist trait. No doubt Simon Gotlieb will correct me.
        
        4 1
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        April 16, 2020 12:38pm
      - sam green
        
        Well someone needs to.
        
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        April 16, 2020 7:35pm
- JackRabbit
  
  ” It’s about surrounding yourself with highly competent people to asks these questions of…”
  
  Underpinning that is knowing what competence actually looks like. Recognising it, and being able to verify it, also asking the right questions to reveal understanding or lack thereof.
  
  Put simply, you have to have an understanding of life itself, and how things work, or enough understanding of life, that you can ask the right questions. To be a leader, you will have to learn standards, and the principles that underpin them.
  
  And that is one of the many benefits of running your own businesses. To overcome challenges it requires getting out of your comfort zone and doing the hard yards and learning about things related to your business, but not essential your core business. It requires investing time.
  
  Jacinda, as a career politician has none of that. She does not know what she doesn’t have. She is unaware of her shortcomings, she is unaware of her own unawareness. She doesn’t have principles or standards, and because of the mental fog of unknowingness, she makes it up as she goes along.
  
  If however, she purchased a fish and chip shop, and didn’t run it into the ground like she is doing with the NZ economy, she will start to gain understanding. If she had the aspiration to have the best fish, the best service, systemise everything and potentially open a chain of shops, then, and only then might she be leadership material.
  
  She reminds me of the White Witch of Narnia, casting a spell over Narnia, causing a permanent economic winter of discontent, handing out Turkish Delight to sycophantic followers, and freezing anyone who dares challenge her authority.
  
  21 2
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  April 16, 2020 9:39am
- Biscuit
  
  I think Jass was operating on a ‘Let-me-do-my-thing-on-the-March-15-commemoration-thing-first-and-then-we-can-look-at-this-pesky-little-virus’ mode…
  ‘Neve, which hibab does Mummy look best in?’
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:47am
PhilBest

https://summit.news/2020/04/13/video-journalist-gets-home-visit-from-uk-police-after-he-reported-mosques-flouting-lockdown-law/

Politically-correct hypocrisy and tyranny (they go together) on display yet again. Are Kiwis going to demand their government doesn’t slide into the same?
One religion seems to regard itself as exempt from lockdown rules – in the UK and all over Europe. Governments haven’t, shall we say, discouraged them in the past, from assuming “exemptions” from rules that apply to everyone else.
You BET the rules about gatherings will be applied and enforced rigorously on Christian churches.
But it doesn’t end there: if you complain to the cops about this religion flouting the rules; complain about the crowds gathering for the next service; guess who the cops come and visit?
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April 16, 2020 8:00am
- Harriet
  
  Political correctness is intellectual laziness and I’ve always struggled as to why the police can’t work that out.
  I’ve read the British police berate, fine, arrest, charge people for wrong think, internally and externally, and the result is that you simply get evil shortcomings operating instead assistance. Compliance instead of truth. It’s a fools errand.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:20am
  - PhilBest
    
    As Mark Steyn and others are pointing out, the worst local police forces in the UK, on tinpot Gestapo tactics now, are the same ones that DIDN’T police laws about grooming and pimping underage girls into prostitution, en mass – because “cultural sensitivities”!!!
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:01am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Harriet
    The head of MI5 said 2 yrs ago that they were watching 2000 individuals who were imminent to act.
    
    They weren’t Christians!
    
    It is worse now, as MI5 cannot cover them all.
    Manchester, Birmingham and London Police have set up their own units like the MI5 track and tracers to follow those in their jurisdictions.
    
    So freeing up MI5 for the really bad risky ones.
    
    The Met follow criminals from inside London to other counties/cities where they live and are handed over to the locals for processing.
    
    One of these criminal gangs were found to put their daily ill-gotten gains into the bank accounts of Islamic charities. Whilst living in poverty and there were children in the household.
    
    and yet they still find time to harass ordinary UK citizens….
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:17am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Great candidates for Mark Steyn’s Britcop Wanker of the Week.
  
  13 1
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  April 16, 2020 8:28am
  - PhilBest
    
    Steyn’s Britcop Wanker is a DAILY award, not a weekly one!!!
    
    8 1
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    April 16, 2020 9:00am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Sorry, yes. Reckon it could just about hourly now. Some bizarre examples on links from the original article.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:17am
2ic

I can’t believe this – Stuff are actually rewriting articles that don’t suit the government narrative!

Two days ago I made a post on General Debate where I referenced and quoted from the following article:

CORONAVIRUS: LOCKDOWN RULES SHOULD BE RELAXED, HEALTH EXPERTS SAY
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120984583/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-should-be-relaxed-health-experts-say
“Lockdown was appropriate when there was so little data…but the data is now clear, this is not the disaster we feared and prepared for. Elimination of this virus is likely not achievable and is not necessary.”

Now if you click on that article, you will find it has been completely rewritten with a different heading (but you can see the original heading in the URL):
CORONAVIRUS: CALL FOR RETURN TO NORMAL LIFE PUTS TENS OF THOUSANDS AT RISK

I find this an extraordinary attack on freedom of expression, to have a view that doesn’t toe the government’s line quashed so easily. I always thought in a democracy that a contest of ideas was part of healthy debate and lead to better outcomes, but that doesn’t appear to be the world we live in now.

If anyone wants to read the media releae by the Plan B group that the original Stuff article reported on, you can find it here:
http://www.covidplanb.co.nz/news-and-videos/media-release-expert-group-suggests-way-out-of-lockdown/
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April 16, 2020 8:01am
- Toko
  
  Stuff needs govt cash. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Quite convenient for Labour in an election year.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:11am
- Ruahine
  
  The gov’t is promising taxpayer money to the media companies. But only if they write the’ correct stories’.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:13am
- G152
  
  Tine to put the remaining fake news sources to bed.
  They have long outlived their use.
  No more lies please
  
  20 1
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  April 16, 2020 8:21am
- Harriet
  
  The media don’t do that in Aussie each day, they do it several times a day – whenever they see fit – and half the demands for a full lock down are at the behest of the teachers unions, and the media then twist everything to support it.
  It’s fucken appalling — the government chuck in $150 billion to save homes and families — and the media and unions then try to crash the entire fucken economy by requesting and supporting a total lockdown.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Teacher have their own special class–do as I say.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:29am
RRM

Stuff is suggesting income tax hikes to pay off the covid-19 related debt…
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April 16, 2020 8:03am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Not a great policy in a recession. I shouldn’t have thought tax policy would need great adjustment, but maybe a wealth or capital gains tax would help to boost the amount of money in circulation.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:09am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The PM has again ruled out a Capital Gains Tax. However if a Labour/Green government can be formed after the election, whenever it is held, I would expect that to be firmly back on the agenda, without Winston Peters acting as a handbrake.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:43am
  - TWEEDSE
    
    Ah Mike Mike Mike, a wealth or capital gains tax, really? The cred of envy and belief that people you perceive to have too much money have it removed from them by threat of force and then redistributed to people who you deem worthy and hard done by.
    
    You cannot tax yourself into prosperity. Pray tell an example where that works?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:56am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Yes it does. Flat rate tax of 20% will give a really boost to get things working.
    
    3 1
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    April 16, 2020 9:56am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Their last failed attempt at a CGT was deemed to be revenue neutral.
    How does that boost circulation of money unless you/they advocate for even higher than the current punishing of achievers?
    
    3 1
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    April 16, 2020 10:23am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    CGT or wealth tax taxes inflation. A house is worth a house. If the govt. slices a bit off that each year claiming ‘CGT’, your house is actually worth less in real terms than it was when you bought it.
    
    The only taxation that makes sense is that on actual income.
    
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    April 16, 2020 2:00pm
- Inandout
  
  RRM, it would also help pay for Stuff’s government assistance.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:11am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Well where did you think the money was going to come from? Obvious speculation I would have thought. Or are you another boomer who has assumed that you are going to continue life as it was, and those pesky Gen X, Millenial and Gen Z kids would just pay for it all?
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The money tree. The same tree that finances hundreds of stupid programmes like fees free tertiary education and the PGF.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:31am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Simon does himself no favors with gratuitous generational jibes, but fundamentally it’s a fair question. What exactly is supposed to be so surprising or shocking about suggesting income tax hikes to pay off the covid-19 debt?
    
    3 10
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    April 16, 2020 8:37am
    - PhilBest
      
      Because the time when “other people’s money” is most likely to run out, is a time like now, with businesses already going to the wall?
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:11am
    - Tall Man
      
      We need money in the economy not out of it and under the control of an inept government.
      
      15 1
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      April 16, 2020 9:20am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      As a general rule when I have / have had a financial shortfall in my life, I either spend less, work more, or do both.
      
      Since the witless government cannot work more (all it can do is extort more from those of us who do work) I suggest they – now I take a deep breath to shout – SPEND LESS!!!!
      
      There, that’s not so hard is it?
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:10am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That would be true, if the government were a household. But it’s not.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:23pm
  - emmess
    
    Cut unnecessary spending when things have started to recover.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:43am
    - Nickc2
      
      Cut unnecessary spending in order to start recovery.
      
      3 1
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      April 16, 2020 12:15pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’m fast approaching retirement Simon. It is my kids, and their as-yet-unborn kids, who will carry the burden of paying down debt.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:45am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yeah, mine too. I’m only 53, but I can see the burden of this falling on my kids, who are mostly in their 20s. I would find it particularly galling though, if the Boomer generation (I’m Gen X) were to publicly call for them to be exempt from having to pay for any of this, and that the following generations should carry the entire can for them.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:07am
      - Durden
        
        Assuming that the prevailing trope that “most boomers are fat cats”, what are Gen-Xers going to do with the fat inheritances from their parents? How much of this capital will be saved and expanded and then passed on to Gen-Xs’ kids? I think the problem with the silent and boomer generation is that they want to pass it on to future generations. Don’t really know how to spend and enjoy. Maybe they should have pissed it all away. The there wouldn’t be these problems. No doubt to Gen-Xers delight /sarc
        
        Using wealth levy / estate duties / inheritance taxes and to put it all in a pool for communist re-distribution is of course on the cards if the Greens and Labour get into power. One could argue that it would be simply theft gussied up.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:00am
  - Ruahine
    
    Simon G might be right
    Capital Gains Tax which was the first attempt to get more money off of those despised, by Swarbricks ilk, ‘boomers’. This time it will be given a new name and called Death Duty Recompense.
    Recompense to all the people who have and will lose their jobs and their businesses just to save a few more ‘old’ from dying.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:47am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Death duty wouldn’t be as bad as CGT! But I agree: why the heck should I give my hard-earned assets to a socialist government to redistribute as they see fit?
      
      1 1
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      April 16, 2020 2:06pm
      - Nickc2
        
        I doubt she will flag these taxes before the next election. It will be her government’s death knell if she does. However, don’t be fooled. If she wins the next election, she won’t be able to help herself.
        
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        April 16, 2020 3:03pm
  - Komata
    
    SimonG@0822
    
    Out of interest, and given your very-evident dislike of ‘Boomers, which generation do you self-identify with please?
    
    Hoping you will have the courage to answer…
    
    Thank you.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:59am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      I was born in 1967 Komata. Which makes me a Gen X.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:08am
      - Komata
        
        Simon G@0908
        
        Thank you
        
        So, let me see; you’re the child of those hated ‘Boomers’ the ones whose parents (Your Grandies) went away to fight so that their kids (your parents) could have the best life of any group on the planet!
        And these kids (the Boomers) certainly made the best of it didn’t they, but unwittingly, when trying to replicate what their parents did to their own children, actually made it worse, because where THEIR parents gave them what they saw as THE BEST that they possibly could, their children (The Boomers; YOUR PARENTS) tried to give them even more!!
        
        The results were predictable; Materialistic, spoilt, over-indulged little darlings, who got what they wanted, when they wanted it, then yelled for more ‘Cos it was their right’ to do so’, all the while vowing and declaring that ‘Because their Boomer parents treated them so unfairly (by giving them absolutely everything), they would NEVER, EVER, BE LIKE THEM…
        
        Except that they actually ARE, remarkably so…
        
        Which leads to my question:
        
        Exactly WHAT is your beef against Boomers?
        
        Did your (Boomer) Parents not ‘indulge’ you enough?
        
        Did they not give you what you wanted (Money, a Uni education, funds for an OE, funds for a business start-up)?
        
        Or is there something else…?
        
        I ask this, since apparently you are a reasonably-successful businessman, who has evidently drawn on skills you learnt from within your familial circle, yet there is something which ‘really gets your goat’ about the Boomers; Your parents and their generation.
        
        Perhaps you’d care to enlighten us as to what that may be…
        
        Thank you.
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:29am
  - RRM
    
    No Simon, I’m one of those pesky gen X / millennial cusp kids who is going to be working for another 30 years to pay for this. 😉 Thanks for asking!
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:12am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Now the truth is emerging…
    SG has officially declared himself anti-business, anti-achievers and now anti-old people – the same people who are most at risk from this virus.
    Wow! SG thinks that the virus is now a good thing because it will eliminate older, wealthy folk.
    More money for non-achievers like SG.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:28am
  - Herodotus
    
    Projection of unemployment to pass 10% and what is associated with high unemployment – Seems like you will get one of your wishes: to experience one of the troubles that boomers experienced.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:40am
- alex Masterley
  
  That will be fun.
  Taxable income will drop across the board because the tax base will shrink as people lose their jobs. It will also shrink as profits decline due to low demand for products and services. any increases in income tax will only have marginal effect.
  Likewise GST recovery will drop as transactions decline.
  The government will also find that tax and levy revenue will drop significantly as people use their vehicles less. I would expect such revenue from the past month will barely meet the costs of recovering same.
  All this will mean the crown will need to find other sources of tax revenue none of which will be palatable to the ordinary punter like me.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:32am
  - PhilBest
    
    Or they need to spend less. “Running out of other people’s money” is all the closer at a time like now.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ain’t going to work. The tax base is not large enough nor with the magnitude of the closedown is the economy going to get back to generating the income needed.
  OOPS.
  ☑️☑️Rout2020☑️☑️
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:33am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy World Voice Day!
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April 16, 2020 8:03am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Wouldn’t it be great if we actually listened to the voices of the world, instead of the voices of those who have the most stocks and shares? Happy World Voice Day to you too Mike! Always nice to now about something other than what the misery-guts shovel up each morning. Have a great day 🙂
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:24am
  - herb1
    
    for someone who hates the “misery guts” of Kiwiblog , you sure seem to spend a lot of time reading and commenting. perhaps you could stick to the cesspit over at The Standard. More your type I would have thought
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:32am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      I like both the cesspit over at The Standard and the cesspit here herb1.
      
      Are you suggesting that those who wish to debate the issues should go away because general debate is no place for debate?
      
      4 19
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      April 16, 2020 9:09am
      - Tall Man
        
        Debate is fine, ill informed rubbish that you have been posting is not debate.
        
        13 3
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        April 16, 2020 9:17am
      - Michael NZ
        
        That might work if you limited yourself to General Debate.
        
        2 2
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        April 16, 2020 9:22am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        If you’re a duck you swim in the duckpond not the shearing shed.
        
        5 1
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        April 16, 2020 10:35am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Mike and Simon – get a room.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:11am
    - Dougal10
      
      In Fraser house
      
      5 1
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      April 16, 2020 11:07am
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120969978/missing-in-action-the-lack-of-a-globally-coordinated-response-to-covid19

I found this opinion piece by Helen Clark unconvincing. She defends the performance of the WHO without providing a single example of what good they have done. And I am open minded. I started reading happy to be persuaded that the WHO had done stuff of which I was unaware.

Seriously the WHO doing good does not look like this. Doing good would have been stopping the virus leaving China.
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April 16, 2020 8:04am
- MrTips
  
  I think Helen has lost her mojo. She recently criticised the UN for lack of plan and now defends the WHO, which is supported by the UN……
  
  Can’t have it both ways.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  WHO does not have any actual powers to stop a virus. It is a vehicle for international co-operation. If countries, especially very powerful ones like China, don’t play by the rules, their is very little any international body can do.
  WHO has achieved much, but the spread of this coronavirus cannot be attributed to it. It seems to me that some are making it a convenient scapegoat to cover their own inadequate preparations and response.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:15am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    WHO actively defended China’s response and told everyone that there was no problem and it couldn’t transmit person to person. They may not have been able to stop it but they certainly helped it spread.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:49am
    - PhilBest
      
      The lid is only just starting to come open on the series of multiple malfeasances of the WHO on this issue. I’m looking forward to what the investigation that is being initiated by the USA, finds.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:15am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Irrelevant what the US investigation finds. It will all be falsely reported by the MSM due to TDS.
        
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        April 16, 2020 2:22pm
    - SGA
      
      China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!
      Jan 25, 2020
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:16am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Context: that was said when we all still believed what the ChiComs and their puppet Tedros were telling the world. Lot of lies, it was…
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:13am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Based on reports from WHO?
        Trump’s comment was reasonable, based on the assumption that WHO were doing their job. They weren’t.
        Thanks for proving my point.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:17am
      - SGA
        
        For heaven’s sake, I don’t believe that the USA doesn’t gather its own intelligence on China, including anything about a potential epidemic. It also has its own direct lines of diplomatic communication with China. If China really did deliberately fool WHO, it fooled everybody.
        
        Trump has been targeting a variety of scapegoats over the last few weeks to deflect attention away from some shortcomings in the Federal response. WHO is just the lastest.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s cool, isn’t it. The US was entitled to believe what the Chinese were saying, but WHO was not.
        Don’t let hatred of international institutions blind you to the obvious. Unless your motivation is even stupider – whatever Trump says or does must be right.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:28pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        WHO were literally in the best position to ensure things were being done correctly. Trump (and most other countries) trusted what they were saying.
        China may have been lying to everyone but WHO should have had boots on the ground. They should have been ensuring that things were being done correctly. That was a reasonable expectation. I know you guys like to blame others, but one of your international globalist organisations has a huge amount of fault over this. If they can’t be trusted (which seems to be your argument), then why do they even exist?
        
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        April 16, 2020 1:30pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Yes, and a lot of countries also said that it was just another flu and nothing to worry about.
    Mistakes were made by everybody. We can’t just single out one entity and say that they are the problem when the problem was made up piece by piece by different entities.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The WHO is an instrument of the CCP. Dr (non-medical) Tedros, head of the WHO, is a communist and has worked with and was appointed by China to his position.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:39am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Why do you post such childish and easily disproved lies?
      
      2 5
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      April 16, 2020 12:55pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Very defensive of Helen for someone who only comes here for entertainment
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:09am
- Im Right
  
  Ohhhh Benedict, you really don’t expect the ex PM, and current PM, to actually bad mouth the UN do you? WHO being an arm of the UN and as such is beyond criticism from Clark and Arden (In Arden’s case, never bad mouth your, hopefully, future employer)
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:22am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I don’t think that would have been possible. The Chinese weren’t particularly upfront about it. And if you recall back eight to twelve weeks, almost nobody was saying we should stop anything. In fact, if you look back on this blog you’ll see the majority of people were demanding that life carry on regardless because “the economy” blah blah blah.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:25am
  - emmess
    
    Rubbish, it was about ten weeks ago, Trump stooped flights from China, and all the elites called him racist.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:31am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yeah he also said it was going to go away like a miracle, and it was nothing to worry about.
      As I said, mistakes were made by lots of people.
      
      6 21
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      April 16, 2020 9:12am
      - PhilBest
        
        Every epicentre has the feature that right up till very late in the story, they were not only being too casual, they were being “full retard” in “messaging” their courage and their freedom from “xenophobia”. Even Nancy Pelosi did a TV publicity stunt visiting Chinatown NY and urging people to support its events and hospitality sector.
        
        This is the other common factor with epicentres -along with high urban density; a highly “global” local economy; and the elderly and vulnerable living in the wrong kind of housing in the wrong part of town.
        
        You literally need all four factors to have an epicentre. If you have none of these factors, you weren’t even going to have excess mortality over and above “normal flu season”. Lockdown policy under these positive pre-conditions is a fully loaded shotgun aimed at the nation’s own foot, and discharged.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:24am
  - cmm
    
    You seem to forget that it is the economy that keeps people alive.
    
    Without the economy to buy all those fancy machines and pay for all those rest homes and age care, the people most at risk from this virus would have likely died 5 or more years ago.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:32am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      You seem to forget that it’s people that keep an economy alive.
      
      Also, 60% of the economy is unessential. Easily. Funny how the economy grinds to a halt when we only buy essential stuff eh?
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:14am
      - Galzy
        
        wow, “60% of the economy is unessential?” fine if you enjoy a subsistent lifestyle…
        
        12 1
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        April 16, 2020 9:26am
      - PhilBest
        
        There’s actually an important insight contained within that cynical comment. Eco-fundamentalists condemn “consumerism” but they don’t get it that the production of more and more goods and services at better and better value, is what ultimately pays for everything else. It is what has paid for continually more and more “public goods” including all sorts of absurd luxuries like legions of bureaucrats writing each other reports that no-one outside their own echo chamber is interested in, and flying on junkets.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:27am
      - Evadne
        
        No, it shows that the current definition of “essential” is too narrow.
        
        However, it shares a similar territory with subsistence farming, communism, and pre-industrial peasants.
        
        None of which were a utopia of happy, healthy lives and immortality free from disease.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:29am
      - CSadler
        
        And 90% of statistics are plucked out of the sky – sarc
        
        3 1
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        April 16, 2020 9:55am
      - Sacha
        
        ‘need’ vs ‘nice-to-have’ eh.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:43pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Pff, Simon, a few years ago the fibre that makes Netflix etc feasible would have been considered an unnecessary luxury. As would a laptop for every school pupil.
        
        And now those are the only things that are keeping some work and schooling maintenance possible while nobody can leave their home!
        
        All that would absolutely grind to a halt if we didn’t have these ‘luxurious’ technological advances.
        
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        April 16, 2020 2:33pm
    - Durden
      
      “Eco-fundamentalists condemn “consumerism” — Consumerism is an individual choice — yes ? We all have the ability to be as spartan or profligate as we want.
      
      Nobody is stopping any fundamentalist doing what they would like. And no one is stopping them from preaching to try and spread their own ideas.
      
      But by forcing people to do what the fundamentalists think is right using laws, their own personal morality via social pressure, and scare propaganda is against my interest in “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:11am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s got to be the Party, surely. Money is always available from Robbo & RB. Taxpayers don’t make money they make taxes. If they don’t pay we take their businesses for the state.
      
      1 1
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      April 16, 2020 10:42am
    - cmm
      
      Here is a picture of an ambulance when there is no economy:
      
      https://mmmworldwide.org/images/stories/Countries/malawi_bicycle_ambulance_02.jpg
      
      What do you think their old age homes look like?
      
      Ventilation looks pretty good though, but I don’t think the oxygen and ECG work too well.
      
      Unlike the ambulance that picked me up at home a few weeks back: ECG, oxygen, trained paramedics,…
      
      7 1
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      April 16, 2020 12:23pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Careful cmm, you will probably cause Julie-Anne Genter to orgasm. No cars, no roads but plenty of wide open footpaths and only a treadlie mobile.
        
        4 1
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        April 16, 2020 12:48pm
      - cmm
        
        … and those people only have bike ambulances because rich people send them money.
        
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        April 16, 2020 12:57pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No. Most people on this blog were clamouring for border closures. Hard and fast and early.
    
    I don’t know what you do for a living. The “economy” is actually everything, including food, shelter, functional families, relaxation and happiness. For many people all of those things are now in peril.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:34am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Simon at 8:22: “Well where did you think the money was going to come from?”
    
    Simon at 8:25: “…because “the economy” blah blah blah.”
    
    That’s right Simon, the money is going to come from the economy, if we still have one when your troll-masters have finished with it. You don’t have much of an argument in any case, but it shows you up for the stupid idiot you are when you contradict yourself in the space of a couple of minutes.
    
    You really are a complete muppet, aren’t you?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:35am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      No I’m not a muppet. I have a different opinion that you. It’s called debate. You wouldn’t last five minutes in a real debate if you resorted to name calling.
      It happens time and again here. Why can’t you debate the issue? Why do you have to resort to name calling?
      
      Obviously where I mentioned “the economy” blah blah blah I was attempting to put myself in somebody elses shoes. Sheesh. Some people have no understanding of allegory.
      
      Also, when you have to call me names, it means I’ve won the argument. 🙂
      
      3 25
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      April 16, 2020 9:17am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        “I have a different opinion that you.”
        
        It’s “than” Simon. You’ve rather proved my point. Muppet.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:21am
      - Michael NZ
        
        No Simon
        You are a partisan Muppet.
        
        That’s your function here, to illustrate that jacinda Adhern and her incompetence if fed by people like you.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:25am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Really? Suggesting that a typo is proof of my muppetry is a bit rich Loddenthinks. The subsequent post also contained a typo. There are typos all over this blog.
        
        That’s completely lame as an argument.
        
        And as for partisanship being evidence of muppetry, then everybody here is a muppet.
        
        Again, I’ll say it. Just because I disagree with you it doesn’t mean that I am stupid. Just like it doesn’t mean that you are stupid because you disagree with me.
        
        It means that due to our different life experiences, level of privilege (although I hate that term), and level of self-interest, we have a different opinion on what is the best way to handle things.
        
        That’s the essence of politics, I guess, and it’s what keeps us coming back to debate the issues, despite the differences of opinions.
        
        It’s my view that the ones that just come up with insults and name calling that are the muppets, and I tend to mostly ignore them. The gold is where I can find people who are genuinely willing to engage and debate, and I totally respect those willing to make the effort. Even, and especially, because I don’t agree with them. People are endlessly fascinating.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:57am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Schoolkid debate in an adult forum?
        Take your tiddlywinks elsewhere–you have been outed as a troll.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:44am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        But why is ‘muppet’ an insult? How much fun did we all have watching the Muppets :)?
        
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        April 16, 2020 2:38pm
  - Brian Marshall
    
    US President Donald Trump closed their borders to people from China back in Late January.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:38am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yep.
      
      Good point. But it doesn’t seem to have helped really. So lets say, for the sake of debate, we had have done that too, why would we have had a different result to what America has?
      
      Because I believe, to be truly effective, we would had to have closed our borders to everyone, including NZers, back in late January.
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:00am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Because unlike the US…
        
        NZ has no land borders
        NZ is a long way by boat
        NZ has no megacities
        NZ’s inbound passenger numbers could all have been screened before and after boarding
        etc.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Partial closure…
      
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      April 16, 2020 12:58pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, even Nigel Latta, back in February, was urging Kiwis “not to lose our shit” over coronavirus, and implying it was just like the flu. He’s certainly had a change of heart since then!
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:47am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      He sure did.
      Mistakes were made by a lot of people. That’s the trouble with not knowing all the information before the event.
      
      6 12
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      April 16, 2020 9:18am
    - PhilBest
      
      He probably didn’t need to flip-flop as far as he did. The evidence is all so far that for NZ at this time of the year, it was not going to cause an observable blip on excess mortality as long as we just did a few simple sensible things around self-isolation of the vulnerable, and hygeine. Latta doesn’t need to grovel totally over his earlier stance. If he was in Northern Italy saying those things it would be different.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:31am
- Albert_Ross
  
  How is WHO supposed to have been able to do that? Do you think they have, or should have, the power to prevent international travel? Or to overrule national governments on matters of domestic policy? What is it exactly that WHO is accused of failing to do?
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:30am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    My central point is that Clark gave no example of what the WHO HAD done. OK simple question. If there was no WHO would New Zealand’s response have been any different? Specifically, what good has the organisation done on this crisis?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:37am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    You obviously haven’t been paying attention, so let me fill in the blanks. This will do for starters (apologies to those who have been paying attention):
    
    The WHO Director-General (DG) Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been an outspoken advocate for the Chinese government’s COVID-19 response. On January 28, Tedros met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing. Following the meeting, Tedros commended China for “setting a new standard for outbreak control” and praised the country’s top leadership for its “openness to sharing information” with the WHO and other countries.
    
    Yet in Wuhan, the epicenter of the COVID-19 outbreak, Chinese officials were busy arresting and punishing citizens for “spreading rumors” about the disease, while online censors controlled the flow of information. Despite growing evidence of China’s mishandling of the outbreak and rising domestic Chinese outrage over the government’s censorship, Tedros remains unmoved. On February 20 at the Munich Security Conference, Tedros doubled down on his praise for China stating that “China has bought the world time.”
    
    In contrast to his effusive praise for China, Tedros has been quick to criticise other countries for their responses to the outbreak. He called upon nations not to limit travel with China and warned against the “recrimination or politicisation” of the outbreak. Domestic Chinese news coverage prominently features Tedros’ praise of Xi Jinping and criticism of foreign governments.
    
    More concerning is Tedros’ delay in declaring COVID-19 a public health emergency of international concern (PHEIC). On January 23, the WHO’s emergency committee was split on whether to declare a PHEIC. With final authority resting with the DG, Tedros decided to wait despite admitting that “this is an emergency in China.”
    
    A week later, he declared a PHEIC. By that point, confirmed cases of COVID-19 had increased tenfold with 7,781 cases across 18 countries. John Mackenzie, a member of the WHO executive committee, publicly stated that international action would have been different if not for China’s “reprehensible” obfuscation of outbreak’s extent.
    
    Clear enough for you?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:40am
  - MarkF
    
    “What is it exactly that WHO is accused of failing to do?”
    I would posit that the WHO did not ask probing and pertinent of the Chinese. There are so many inconsistencies with the Chinese data that any rational investigator must be suspicious.
    As we are only too aware this virus appears to be carried by asymptomatic people, (ie. those that don’t know they have it). Now tell me how, logically, cities like Beijing and Shanghai were NOT visited by infected Wuhan residents before anyone realized what was happening?
    It fails the simple logic test that we have seen repeated all over the world! Eg. 80 people from one wedding in Bluff!
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:53am
    - PhilBest
      
      Exactly! I keep asking, too, how were SOME of the floods of Chinese arrivals into Auckland airport in every normal week, not carrying this virus in mid January? Asymptomatic spread is probably weeks ahead of where our “modellers” have assumed, with the mortality rate consequently overstated by orders of magnitude.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:33am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I don’t think that it was just China. I believe, by January, this virus was relatively widespread, but didn’t show up in the rest of the world so much then. So we would have had to close the borders to everywhere in January.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:01am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Not close borders but quarantine ALL arrivals. Everyone living in NZ or long term visitors (e.g. students) should have been prepared to go straight into quarantine. Only short-term tourism would have been lost.
        
        Yes, it would have been difficult, but if that option had been given to airlines and our tourism sector to rescue their business by organizing hotels etc, they would have taken it.
        
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        April 16, 2020 2:50pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    J’accuse the WHO and the Chiet Puppet Tedros of lying in service of the ChiComs.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:41am
- Justitia
  
  The WHO praised China for its transparency even while China was locking up doctors who had expressed alarm about the virus, and ordering laboratory evidence to be destroyed. The WHO repeated as late as 14 January China’s lie that there was no evidence of transmission to humans and suppressed urgent advice from Taiwanese doctors to the contrary. The WHO refused to declare a pandemic in order to spare China embarrassment until it was forced to do so by the undeniable evidence of the rapid global spread of the virus. It is possible, even likely, that if the WHO had acted in an impartial and timely manner the world would have been spared this catastrophe. Clark is a bigger fool than I thought in clinging to her outmoded and bankrupt globalist dogma.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:41am
- BobbyS
  
  Only yesterday I discovered that the head of WHO appointed Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador of WHO, until there was enough uproar that he had to recind the appointment
  How inept and internationally ignorant must one be to not know Mugabe is NO Goodwill ambassador even for the Zimbabwean arm of ANTIFA
  Fuck me – that guy shouldn’t be in that role!! Tederos im talking about
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:44am
- Jules99
  
  I remember criticism of WHO last time we had a pandemic – nothing much has changed since then.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:00am
  - PhilBest
    
    They mishandled Ebola something shocking, with deadly results for parts of Africa.
    
    7 1
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    April 16, 2020 9:34am
- amospicton
  
  Anyone who doubts where the WHO’s loyalties lie should watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlCYFh8U2xM
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    Don’t worry about what they do, just keep sending the money. (sarc) Cindy is doing exactly that, she said so yesterday.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“Year of delivery”
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April 16, 2020 8:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Properly called the International Year of the Midwife, 2020, as designated by the WHO. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Midwives certainly do merit our respect and support.
  A well-earned uptick for you, Steve.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:07am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Got a flier in the mail, to stay 2m from the courier.
  only delivery anyone will see during the CoL term.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:08am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    What kind of idiot blames the Coalition government for Covid-19? Seriously, change the record you misery-guts.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:26am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      What kind of idiot doesn’t?
      They never actually closed the borders, instead relying on self isolation.
      They waited forever to put a quarantine in place.
      They put our entire response on hold so Jacinda could show the entire world how much she cares.
      If not for the fact that we have a number of very clear advantages over the rest of the world, we would be swimming in dead by now.
      
      Stop pretending this Government is doing a good job. Do you think David Clark would be on gardening leave if he was doing a good job.
      
      And for your inevitable point, I have a large number of lefty friends and over half of them have called this government out on multiple occassions over their handling of this.
      
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      April 16, 2020 8:57am
    - waldonz
      
      You’re the reason God created the middle finger.
      
      10 3
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      April 16, 2020 8:58am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Oh my God, you’re so funny. Did you get mummy to help you write that one?
        
        3 22
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        April 16, 2020 9:20am
    - Evadne
      
      You can, however, hold them accountable for their response to it.
      
      8 1
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      April 16, 2020 9:00am
    - Tall Man
      
      Still pontificating about playing the ball are you?
      
      7 4
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      April 16, 2020 9:12am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Still flinging poo like an angry monkey in a zoo Tall Man? It’s a bit early to be drinking.
        
        3 18
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        April 16, 2020 10:03am
      - Tall Man
        
        Maybe you need to look over my comments and then read your own to see who’s flinging the “poo” and other random abuse.
        
        5 1
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        April 16, 2020 2:44pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Simon, why are you accusing TM of alcoholism then? If you’re a superior being, prove it.
        
        4 1
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        April 16, 2020 2:54pm
- Drone
  
  Steve they HAVE delivered, holidays for many more people than usual, you want more !! You are a typical KBlog supporter never happy…
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How about those who have lost their jobs? That is delivery?
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:15am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Compare with USA, who went with a response more oriented towards what most here suggest. How many unemployed there now? And how many dead?
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:21am
      - PhilBest
        
        Ironically the USA’s outcomes are dragged down by the same “progressives” as love a Police State response now, initially virtue-signalling about “xenophobia” and going full retard playing chicken with COVID-19 because “xenophobes exploiting an imaginary crisis”.
        
        It now looks clear that this is one of a few factors that determine whether a location ultimately became an epicentre. If the entire USA was “Trump Country” it would be one of the lightest-hit.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:39am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        4.7M here, 328M there.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:39am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Governors make decisions regarding lockdown in each state. Including NY telling citizens to ignore the threat and enjoy Chinese New Year.
        
        But sure, blame Trump for any governors’ bad decisions…
        
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        April 16, 2020 2:57pm
- GT Build
  
  That was last year but I guess it failed so it gets extended just like the lockdown will next week
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:13am
- Joe Kerr
  
  Unless it was pizza delivery you wanted because that was banned.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:47am
Mr Coronavirus

Another day, more madness, more panic.

Suspicious eyes on the street.

Cops pulling over innocent citizens.

And while I’m waiting for the other Horsemen of the Apocalypse, KKKlarKKK sticks her beak in again.

Back to the bottle today I guess. Thank you Mr J Daniels!
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April 16, 2020 8:06am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Maybe you’ve hit it on the head there Mr Coronavirus.
  
  I wonder how many posters on here are fueled by alcohol? They’re certainly too angry to be regular weed smokers…
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:28am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Not me.
    
    6 1
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    April 16, 2020 8:38am
  - waldonz
    
    You’re so full of crap, the toilet’s jealous.
    
    9 3
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    April 16, 2020 9:00am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Oh look, more insults. I win again 🙂
      
      4 17
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      April 16, 2020 9:21am
      - Mr Coronavirus
        
        Ignore the lawyer. Shakespeare was right!
        
        2 2
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        April 16, 2020 9:31am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Brilliant.
      
      4 2
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      April 16, 2020 9:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jack Daniels! There is a certain company not to buy from. I placed an order 12 days ago and the courier has not even picked it up yet. Too big to fail. They have lost me as a customer forever.
  However, a small company will give you delivery by 4.30pm if you order before mid day
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:19am
Scott

We have to beware virus propoganda because there is a lot of it around. The Washington Post tells a harrowing story of how the Republican governor didn’t enforce a lock down and because of this the state has lots of infections and a meat processing plant is at the epicentre of infections.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/2020/04/13/5cff90fe-7daf-11ea-a3ee-13e1ae0a3571_story.html

What the Washington post fails to tell its readers is that the meat processing plant was classified as essential and would have stayed open whatever the governor decided.
What the Washington post fails to say is that the Republican governor exercised her own judgement based on conditions in her state and that the total amount of deaths in the state due to the virus is 6!
The Washington post appears to want to punish the people of south Dakota for electing a Republican who also appears to support Pres Trump.
That’s the real agenda of the Washington post. In pandemic times or no, nothing should get in the way of telling their readers “orange man bad!”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/another-dishonest-smear-by-the-washington-post.php
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April 16, 2020 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  Meanwhile these shameless lying MSM cover up the connection between progressive virtue-signalling local government, and the real major epicentres in the USA.
  
  http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2020/04/identity-politics-lied-new-yorkers-died.html
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:41am
brett68

Mathew Hooton has tweeted some concerning numbers.
5
9
49
31
6
https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/1250229800788094978

It’s not hard to guess who’s 49 and who’s 31.
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April 16, 2020 8:06am
- MrTips
  
  meh. last time he did that it was UMR for Labour
  Whats it this time? Sealord for NZ First?
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  ACT at 5% will have some salivating.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:20am
  - Random T Person
    
    I am one of those salivating ;-). Top o the morning to you Mike.
    
    7 1
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    April 16, 2020 9:11am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Sorry mike I was discombobulated.
    wanted to uptick you but, just couldn’t…
    
    4 3
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    April 16, 2020 9:29am
  - MCos
    
    Spinoff did a poll that found 9% of the respondents wouldn’t comply with the the self isolation rules.
    That’s ACT territory.
    ACT are ideologically opposed to big government telling the populace what to do.
    If Seymour was PM he’d be caught between a rock and a hard place in the current situation.
    The Tax Payers Union taking a government handout to prop up it’s organization was very interesting.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:16am
- Happychappy
  
  This from a UMR poll that even the person that runs it said yesterday he believed wasn’t really showing the right picture.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:24am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  It does appear the David Seymour has done an excellent job at pulling up Act’s numbers and they stand a good chance of getting into Parliament on their own merits, so many here would celebrate that.
  
  The 49% for Labour is understandable. The majority of the country believe that JA has done a pretty good job of handling this crisis, despite all the little bits of craziness people here have desperately tried to grab on to.
  
  As for National, that’s to be expected. They’ve had no oxygen lately, despite Simon Bridges trying hard to appear like a competent leader on the “Hold the Govt to account” Committee or whatever it’s called.
  
  NZ First at 5% is slightly ahead of where I’d put them. And the Greens are largely, as always, ignored. There will always be about 10% of the population into woke politics and that’s about all they’ll ever have, trying that on. But there’s not much room for anything else, really.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:33am
  - brett68
    
    I definitely get the feeling National is sub 40.
    
    Unless they pull a Labour and do a bit of reset I can’t see them getting out of the 30s before the election.
    
    Carrying on with plan A really isn’t an option if they even want to be remotely competitive at this years election.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:43am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You wait–
      ☑️☑️Rout2020☑️☑️
      
      9 2
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      April 16, 2020 10:50am
      - brett68
        
        Ok, General Melchett
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblfKREj50o
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:24am
- Im Right
  
  I’d say Hootens numbers are wrong in that Labour are most probably above 50% at this time!Nothing to frighten the horses and what you would expect Brett.
  I think even someone who doesn’t follow politics could tell you that during a crisis the incumbent government stay in power if an election is held during/soon after said crisis…better the devil you know kinda thing, but the NZ election is ‘at least’ 6mths away and as such those figures will change in due course.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:33am
  - Nickc2
    
    Hooton gets paid to interview his keyboard and thus create controversy out of trivia. Don’t forget, he gets paid by the Herald and they are in receipt of government advertising. The herald is not going to publish anything that could jeopardise the almighty advertising dollar.
    
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    April 16, 2020 12:06pm
- pdm
  
  Brett those look like the Labour Party internal polling figures Mrs Soper announced were leaked on Thursday of last week.
  
  Not like Hooten to be dragging the chain.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:33am
  - brett68
    
    Curia has Labour at 51% and National at 34%
    
    https://twitter.com/bryce_edwards/status/1250500689907683328
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:17am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Edwards’ quote says “sources say”; would they be the same sources that were predicting Simon Bridges’ demise a year ago, and were proved completely wrong by the various public polls?
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:31am
      - brett68
        
        Delusional.
        You prefer the previous Curia poll that had Labour at 48% and National at 31%?
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:42am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      I’m always curious about polls. In the 48 years since I became eligible to vote I’ve never been polled. I think it’s because most of the time I’m at work, or busy out and about when not working. And since dropping a landline I don’t even get bank scammer calls from That Subcontinent. So – who does get polled?
      
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      April 16, 2020 10:45am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        A few weeks back a political polling agency called me and I refused, because basically my opinions (pretty much centrist really) have become un-PC as the Overton window has shifted to the extreme left. Now we have the threat of ‘hate speech’ laws for just about anything that isn’t extreme left and doesn’t support identity politics, so I don’t trust to give my opinion on the phone.
        
        If other people feel the same way, how valid can those polls be?
        
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        April 16, 2020 3:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You think there are many so paranoid as to refuse to respond to a telephone poll in case government spies are listening in? I should have thought not. BTW, what medications do you take?
        
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        April 16, 2020 5:06pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Why are you insulting me? Are you completely unaware of the crazy Police actions in the UK against people for ‘hate speech’? Being concerned about that is not paranoid.
        
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        April 16, 2020 6:01pm
    - Happychappy
      
      Listen to Hooton and Mills yesterday and see if you believe there is that much difference in the polls.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018742566
      
      1 1
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      April 16, 2020 12:34pm
- emmess
  
  Complete rubbish
  How has ACT jumped by 250%+?
  Both Greens and NZF have been invisible.
  We all know they would have been cannibalised by Labour.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    Why wouldn’t ACT have jumped when Seymour is the only person in politics right now saying what a significant proportion of Kiwis want National to be saying but they aren’t? This will be where some of National’s support has gone.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:44am
    - emmess
      
      I find it unbelievable that we see a 5 for ACT when we have never seen a 3 or 4 before and 2’s are rare
      
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      April 16, 2020 12:51pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Emmess, hopefully more Kiwis understand how vital it is to protect Freedom of Speech than the CoL believes. And Seymour is the only person really speaking up about it.
      
      4 1
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      April 16, 2020 3:11pm
  - SGA
    
    How has ACT jumped by 250%+?
    
    It is a small numbers thing. It only takes movement in a small percentage of the total number of voters to produce dramatic effects in ACT’s relative share.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:02am
- Tall Man
  
  Guess is probably the right word here brett as these figures bear little resemblance to reality.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:09am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  These numbers are already out of date – apparently Labour’s now on 51%
  
  I do believe any polling numbers right at this point in time might be slightly meaningless though…
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:20am
  - emmess
    
    Why would we not see similar changes as in Australia, UK or Canada?
    
    There is a lot of noise in the results but I would say mostly, two to four point gains to the government.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Australian_federal_election
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_44th_Canadian_federal_election
    
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    April 16, 2020 12:58pm
Harriet

2 more weeks and red ink will start flowing like it’s been released from the 3 Gorges Dam.

The end is nigh.
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April 16, 2020 8:10am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The test will come when we see how many businesses don’t reopen when they are allowed to reopen.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:56am
  - Sacha
    
    Or can’t reopen –
    
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    April 16, 2020 12:56pm
RW Capitalist

What do fear most
Covid 19
or
losing your job?
Poll on the AM show
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2020/04/poll-what-do-you-fear-more-getting-covid-19-or-losing-your-job.html
64% losing your job
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April 16, 2020 8:11am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I would wager, had we done nothing, and deaths were at, say 500-600 by now, the poll would be the absolute opposite.
  How many deaths would be acceptable to you to keep the economy going? Say, 50% of those over the age of 70? Or more?
  Perhaps we should run a poll here. How many of the over 70s would we be happy to die in order that our own lives weren’t changed?
  Sounds a bit different when you put it like that.
  Again, look to France, Italy, Spain, USA, UK for inspiration. It ain’t pretty.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:35am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    FFS. Isolate the old people. In the last 4 weeks about 2,600 people have died. Most of them were over 75. Many of them died from respiratory diseases.
    
    New Zealand government agencies already put a value on life. Including pharmac and the ministry of health. They also monetise the quality of life using a measure called QUALIS. I might have the acronym incorrectly spelt. They use that analysis to figure whether to intervene to save lives or improve life quality. So we don’t extend the lives of some people with cancer. We let them die.
    
    The response to this crisis will kill more people than it saves. Not even counting the lives ruined.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:44am
    - Tall Man
      
      Sshhh, simon does music not math.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:07am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      The Pharmac value of a life has been refuted. The figure Gareth Morgan quoted of $10,000 was what Pharmac were prepared to spend on drugs to maintain each life, not what they thought it was worth to society. ACC quote about a mill and a half from memory. Hadn’t heard of QUALIS. Cheers for that. I’ll go have a read-up. You may be right about the deaths. You may be wrong. Who knows? In the meantime I’m enjoying the debate with you Benedict. I don’t necessarily agree with everything you say but you have some good ideas.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:25am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Well I am right about the deaths. (About) 90 people die every day. Slightly more in winter. It is all there at Stats NZ. So the fact that 2,600 (or so) people died during a lock down is just a fact. There are excellent records of the age of people dying. I don’t have time to go and do an analysis but fill your boots 🙂 Anyway I could say with confidence that somwewhere between 1,800 and 2,200 very elderly folk died during the lockdown.
        
        Just another anecdote – Italy – I was reading the other day that EVERY winter (especially in the north) their ICU hospital beds are full to overflowing. They have a VERY elderly population, and an above average smoking rate. So all it took was this virus to push the system into apocalypse.
        
        I have spent a couple of weeks in Milan on business. Great place but it is full of old smokers and drinkers, has a huge densely packed population and high air pollution. The mess was compounded by the idiot politicians twittering about #Milanisopen #Milanisfree, and allowing a massive football event to take place just as the virus was going out of control.
        
        My point is that New Zealand is not Lombardy. For the PM to say that New Zealand would have been another Italy is crazy. I still maintain that a better strategy would have been close the boreder hard early, protect the old people (yes that would be a challenge but let’s apply some creative thinking) and essentially stay in L2 until a vaccine is found. And aggressively track and trace every outbreak. We would have killed export education and overseas tourism but let everything else go. Well most of it anyway.
        
        Killing the economy for a decade and destroying lives is not worth saving 500, or 1,000, or 2,000, people over 75 from dying a few years before they otherwise would have died. Some will be shocked by that statement, but as I have said repeatedly the health system makes those judgments every day.
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:58am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Many in the older age group are already isolated. All the Rosewood victims were already in an isolated hospital ward in their nursing home. Many nursing homes have such facilities.
      Nothing more needs to be done except support their staff.
      Shifting such people may bring about their deaths from the mere change of environment–the nursing home is their home with friends, a regular life etc, Disturb that and they could turn off their will to live. Life is not all physical.
      
      Their is no good reason not to expose the main NZ population to the risks of the virus.
      
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      April 16, 2020 11:00am
  - Evadne
    
    But you’re drawing the false argument that this is lives vs economy, when in fact its lives vs lives. Any suppression of the economy and social structures causes deaths too.
    
    You ask how many lives would we be prepared to lose to covid in exchange for an economy?
    
    I ask how many lives you’re prepared to lose through these extreme measures, to save people from covid?
    
    Covid is a Bad Thing. People will die. That is tragic.
    Deliverately trashing our economy and enforcing strict social and personal restrictions is a Worse Thing. More people will die. More lives will be ruined. That is beyond tragic.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:06am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Another good point.
      
      It is indeed, a very tricky proposition. For me, I’m prepared to give the four weeks a go, but I’m going to start getting really twitchy if they start extending the lockdown at level 4 past that.
      
      10 6
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      April 16, 2020 9:26am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You may find that Level 3 is not much different from a personal standpoint. I live alone and at L4 I work from home and cannot visit friends and family. I can’t go for a drive to the beach. I expect that to be exactly the same on L3. Let’s hope I am mistaken.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:58am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I think I understand you now. You think that the options are either full economy destroying lockdown or do nothing and everybody dies. There are other options. The Aussies have been quite successful whilst doing less damage to their economy.
    Also note that the cost in lives of this lockdown will be quite high from suicides, violence and people not receiving needed medical attention. Stop pretending that the lockdown has no cost.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:07am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Simon.
      and the Swedish, Israeli, South Korean, Taiwanese.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:33am
  - PhilBest
    
    Deaths wouldn’t have been at 500-600 by now.
    
    https://coronavirus.medium.com/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-6a6d436abccf
    
    The deaths we were going to “have anyway” ARE the deaths we have HAD. It is the deaths from “around now” onwards, that will represent the “benefits of lockdown”.
    
    Meanwhile a few thousand old people have died anyway of the usual causes, and no-one is talking about how a few of them might have been saved for another few weeks, months or years if only we’d been prepared for a cost of a few billions of dollars to do it.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:49am
RiP NZ

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-blasts-commercial-rent-hikes-amid-covid-19-lockdown.html

Worth a re post absolutely staggering.
Min pay, benefit increases are sensible apparently.
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April 16, 2020 8:11am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  My understanding is that the benefit increases were in most part negated by a corresponding decrease in accommodation benefits by WINZ anyway, as the law says that any additional income has to be taken into account in calculating that part of the benefit.
  
  1 19
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  April 16, 2020 8:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    There is an abatement. But AS recipients will still keep at least 50 percent of the benefit increase. For those in state houses they keep 75 percent of the increase.
    
    6 2
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    April 16, 2020 8:46am
  - Evadne
    
    So it was pointless virtue signaling then? Driven by the desire to look good, rather than do good?
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:47am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Precisely. All steam, and no hangi.
      
      6 1
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      April 16, 2020 9:11am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Boy did it wind up people here though, the thought that “the undeserving” could get something more…
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:28am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I am not a beneficary basher. I (mostly) feel for their difficulties. However there is a minority, both male and female, who are on lifetime benefits, do cash jobs, or trade cannabis, who are a permanent underclass. As a country we seem incapable of dealing with them. This is not a myth. All of us have family members, or see the family members of friends and colleagues who are essentially hopeless.
        
        A close friend in Queenstown has a son – about 20, who was useless from the age of 16. Thankfully he has now picked himself up and got an apprenticeship and good on him. But when he was sitting around the house for three years, I commented to him that there were hundreds of jobs on offer in the South Island harvesting crops. I told his mother I would help him financially and practically to get a job. He thought I was mad. Refused point blank. As I said he has now made a change for the better. But many stay in a state of “learned helpnessness” forever.
        
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        April 16, 2020 10:05am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    In other words, the Government has burned up a whole chunk of political capital by making a symbolic “increase” that won’t actually help anyone. Their ineptitude is staggering!
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:59am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Would you have rather they gave all beneficiaries an extra $250 a week so it would make a real difference? That would really have curled some people’s hair. 🙂
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:29am
rightoverlabour

Lovely. Can’t wait.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121016852/coronavirus-tax-changes-coming-to-pay-for-covid19-response-what-will-they-look-like

(insert suitable terms of endearment here)
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April 16, 2020 8:12am
- Jules99
  
  Funny how they avoid the other side of the equation = cuts to the public sector.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:05am
Happychappy

Mayor Phil Goff and Auckland Council announces 73 priority infrastructure projects.
While Auckland City has a third of the Nations Population and being the largest City in New Zealand why should they get the majority of the package to stimulate the economy and reduce the economic impact of CORID – 19.
https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/articles/news/2020/04/auckland-council-announces-73-priority-infrastructure-projects/
The only thing Phil Goff has done for Auckland is to continue to raise rates and employ more people to do sit on their arse and do nothing a typical Labour Party strategy.
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April 16, 2020 8:12am
- aquataur
  
  Have a look at the list of priority projects!
  
  Includes :-
  Marae Upgrades
  Maori Housing
  
  Perfect use of public money for private benefit
  
  Geez these guys are wankers
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:49am
  - GT Build
    
    Yeah I was wanting them to build my brick fence why is that not on the list
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:32am
  - PhilBest
    
    Why can’t some of the land that “Maori” own, be used for Maori housing? They could have had race-based access to the country’s most affordable housing years ago. The cost of the section and compliance, which is where all our problem is, could be next to nothing for THEM.
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:53am
    - sam green
      
      Lots of it is.
      
      1 1
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      April 16, 2020 8:23pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Why? If Maori want their stuff refurbished/upgraded, that’s their problem. What return does the Auckland Rate Payer get if Maori sell off some of their stuff? Zip yes, that’s right, zip.
    What Maori own belongs to Maori and so does anything else they can lay their hands on courtesy of anyone. I’m not racist, but I don’t see why I should by paying for stuff for someone else that I have to pay for myself.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:31am
    - sam green
      
      Marae are often used in times of adversity and community disruption by all and sundry, including people like you. Maori would also be unlikely to sell off such land.
      
      1 1
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      April 16, 2020 8:25pm
      - sam green
        
        Councils all across the country will have MOUs with likely all marae for use in times of civil emergency. And maori generously come up with the goods every time, including a considerable ability to cater to masses of souls. Be kind.
        
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        April 16, 2020 8:32pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Bullocks. With a different vowel.
        
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        April 16, 2020 8:50pm
      - sam green
        
        How is it bollocks?
        
        https://knowledgeauckland.org.nz/media/1124/dp2017-003-marae-and-emergency-accommodation-auckland-10oct-2017.pdf
        
        https://www.boprc.govt.nz/media/2924/2017-06-13-komiti-maori-meeting-agenda-20-june-2017.pdf
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:00pm
      - sam green
        
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2016/11/relief-efforts-continue-in-kaikoura.html
        
        https://www.teaomaori.news/christchurch-marae-opens-their-doors-whanau-affected-fire
        
        There’s plenty more …..
        
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        April 16, 2020 9:07pm
      - Nickc2
        
        How many Marae have been made available or offered as COVID-19 Quarantine Centres? Zip.
        
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        April 16, 2020 11:04pm
Handyman

Quite right.
The timeline of decisions shows initial paralysis followed too late by overreaction.
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April 16, 2020 8:19am
- Tall Man
  
  Handy, if you factor in the overwhelming need for the March 15th “ardern event” to go ahead, the timeline makes perfect sense and all the idiotic deflection here and elsewhere by the earnest and ardent ardernists obfuscates nothing.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:05am
  - sam green
    
    You make up stories. Tall man is an apt moniker.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:28pm
MrTips

Interesting Tweet from Bjorn Lomborg about this paper in Science .

Lomborg (correctly to my mind) points out that over-cooking the initial lockdown will result in a worse outcome later on when a second wave of infections hit, ie. a population resistant to repeated paranoia and ineffective population immunity.

Carefully controlled social distancing, border controls and hand hygeine, whilst maintaining economies are going to be key going forward. This also needs to be complemented by immunological confirmation of effective individual immunity, which will act as the empirical tool to justify further relaxations back to normal life.

NZ can do this. We have the opportunity. God I hope we do it.
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April 16, 2020 8:21am
Handyman

“Prof Baker told RNZ he had been asking the ministry for weeks for certain key data about border control, contact tracing and testing but had not received it, nor had the advisory subgroup he was on with four other epidemiologists” (RNZ)

This is a big fail. After four months and dozens of announcements, the Labour government has not got the basics in place.
This is beginning to feel a lot like Kiwibuild… announcements, bluster, spin, failure!
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April 16, 2020 8:26am
horseshoe

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121045060/winston-peters-says-country-expected-to-move-to-level-3-next-week

Is winnie just grand standing for attention here or have they already made a decision but are just using the next few days to iron out the details?
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April 16, 2020 8:27am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Mostly the latter. They know exactly when the lockdown is ending. You’ll find out on Monday, like the rest of us.
  
  But yeah, Winnie is also grandstanding. It’s what he does best.
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I believe Peters has started his election campaign. I doubt though he has the stamina to keep it up until September (or November).
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:01am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Tony, Winston never stops campaigning.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:44am
Durden

Especially after yesterday’s, likely Helen Clarke advised, defence of the useless WHO/UN in the face of spotlighting by Trump. It of course feathers her nest for her ultimate ambitions in the UN.

If you think WHO is not bought and paid for by China, here are some often missed examples.

WHO thinks North Korea’s zero Covid cases reporting is correct! The country which has a very long land border with China.
https://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-testing-quarantining-covid-213349078.html

WHO does not recognize Taiwan whose performance in controlling pandemic is exemplary, instead calling it Chinese Taipei.

The UN also does not recognise Taiwan. China continues to buy support from Pacific Island and African nations using loans and investment with one of the conditions being derecognising Taiwan e.g. Kiribati. The same UNWHO found ways to recognise the two Korea’s, the two Germanies etc.

Time to refund the UN too. And get rid of the Compact for Migration and bull shit of similar I’ll.
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April 16, 2020 8:29am
- emmess
  
  Don’t forget Jacinda
  
  “At a time like this where we need to be sharing information where we need to have advice that we can rely on the WHO has been doing that,” Ardern said.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121039034/jacinda-ardern-rejects-donald-trumps-reasons-for-defunding-world-health-organisation
  
  What a load of crap
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    Taiwan , as pointed out , unpersoned by the UN and WHO , organisations that internationalist socialists such as Clark and Ardern idolise , was onto the outbreak as early as 31 December.
    
    Taiwan , Republic of China was rebuffed by both China and WHO . But they took unilateral action and saved themselves a world of shit.
    
    That’s the story the Globalist Media Party needs to focus on , not the Italian and New York apocalypse themes.
    
    But they won’t , it’s all Trump , Trump , Trump .
    
    Evil Orange Man .
    
    “The Taiwan Centers for Disease Control (Taiwan CDC) learned from online sources that there had been at least seven cases of atypical pneumonia in Wuhan, China. In China, the term “atypical pneumonia” is commonly used to refer to SARS, a disease transmitted between humans caused by coronavirus.
    
    “Owing to its experience with the SARS epidemic in 2003, Taiwan vigilantly kept track of information about the new outbreak. On December 31, 2019, Taiwan sent an email to the International Health Regulations (IHR) focal point under the World Health Organization (WHO), informing WHO of its understanding of the disease and also requesting further information from WHO. ”
    
    https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-viBOuw?typeid=158
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:31am
- emmess
  
  And Pelosi, who makes Clark and Ardern sound sane
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/15/nancy-pelosi-vows-to-stop-trumps-dangerous-illegal-decision-to-halt-w-h-o-funding/
  
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  April 16, 2020 8:48am
  - PhilBest
    
    Pelosi is so shameless, typical of her class; she did a TV publicity stunt visiting San Francisco’s Chinatown in late February, urging people to “make a statement against xenophobia” by supporting events and hospitality in Chinatowns!!!
    
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    April 16, 2020 9:57am
TWEEDSE

It was interesting to read this article entitled “New Zealand’s New PM is Clueless about Capitalism”. It was written in October 2017 by Daniel J. Mitchell.

He sites that “New Zealand is now governed by a politician who doesn’t know what she doesn’t know”.

It is a good antidote to the fawning media’s puffery being written at the moment.

Whilst destroying the economy and turning the entire population into beneficiaries is the basis of her beliefs, others with clearer eyes see how she is quickly destroying New Zealand.

https://fee.org/articles/new-zealand-s-new-pm-is-clueless-about-capitalism/
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April 16, 2020 8:35am
- PhilBest
  
  Thanks for that, Daniel J Mitchell is great, I didn’t know he’d written about NZ! And he actually came here!
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:59am
  - sam green
    
    He misquotes her as well. How balanced.
    
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    April 16, 2020 8:48pm
Loddenthinks

Jacinda: Look at meee, I’m leading! I’m leading!

Trump: WHO is corrupt and dishonest, and we’re not going to give them any more money for several months.

Now that’s leading.
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April 16, 2020 8:44am
- kowtow
  
  If she was leading she’d announce a 15% pay cut across the whole public service.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:53am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ardern has no authority in regard to PS pay rates.
    However she encourages Police to break the law regarding the Northland vigilantes.
    Also if a rahui is in force over Ihumatao what is it doing there when the title in that land is vested in Fletchers? They are not a Maori.
    The PM should be upholding the law of NZ under her oath to HM the Queen.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:10am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    That’s her voting bloc. Don’t be silly.
    
    2 0
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    April 16, 2020 3:51pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m sure your right.
      
      1 0
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      April 16, 2020 4:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Notice that it is for 6 months. Convenient. After that it will be increased and if Labour should win the next Election, it will be backdated 6 months. My opinion.
  These bastards tell lies and are not to be trusted
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:31am
I remember when

“Try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one.”
Even a number of article about coronavirus mention doctors talking about the decision of who to let die. Doctors don’t make that decision – they decide who to try to save. The virus and other illnesses decide who will die.
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April 16, 2020 8:48am
aquataur

Even the drunken soapbox believes they went too far

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12325085
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April 16, 2020 8:50am
brett68

Is this the first time Judith Collins has appeared on the epidemic response committee?

Has she replaced Woodhouse?
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April 16, 2020 8:54am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It might just be a one off due to the fact she’s a tax lawyer and the Government just released new tax changes with massive holes in them that need plugging.
  I’m getting very angry at the Government’s lies about their business support, outside of the wage subsidies which are for employees, they’ve given almost nothing to businesses. All they’ve done is changed the timing of some things. The new lot helps with cashflow (for those who made a 2019 loss) but the first lot doesn’t kick in until next year and all the tax is recoverable in the future so when the Government say they’ve given businesses $6b or whatever, it’s actually only a couple years interest on that. To put it in perspective, they’ve given businesses less than they’ve given beneficiaries.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:15am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Those appearing before the committee this morning have a focus on trade and economic development; Ministers Parker and Twyford, and their respective CEO’s. It’s a natural fit for Collins and Brownlee.
  
  National has rotated senior MP’s in and out depending on who is appearing before the committee. That’s a very sensible strategy. I think Bridges and Goldsmith are the only ones who have sat in every session, which is to be expected given Bridges is the committee chair, and Goldsmith is National’s Finance spokesman.
  
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  April 16, 2020 9:26am
  - Wired-one
    
    Twyford? that incompetent fool doesn’t deserve his tax payer funded salary.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:07am
coolas

Reading above many comments so obviously from die-hard political tribalists – sad and very boring –

Maybe this quote from US Republican Governor, Steve Allender might help with some balance.

“There’s no political winners in this pandemic. You have to decide on which side of the argument you’re going to lose – the one that was too cautious or the one that was too reckless.”
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April 16, 2020 9:03am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Or be like Labour and do both?
  Reckless by waiting until after March 15th.
  Then Cautious by having no flexibility in the lockdown.
  
  6 3
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  April 16, 2020 9:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Whoosh…
    
    1 8
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    April 16, 2020 12:13pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      It’s alright. I wasn’t expecting you to understand what I was saying. It was a joke, based on the Governor’s statement. At least you admit it went over your head.
      
      As for the tribalism comment:
      I give credit where it’s due but the fact is that this Government has done very little that it wasn’t pushed into. That’s not tribalism, that’s fact.
      
      Question for you. Ignoring your tribalism, do you think that Jacinda was in any way justified to hold off our response until March the 15th so she could have her political pointscoring opportunity?
      
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      April 16, 2020 1:38pm
- Gravelroad
  
  If so many of the comments on here are “sad and very boring” , why do you come on here and waste your precious time reading them then, Coolas?
  Are you paid to do this?
  Genuine question.
  
  3 5
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  April 16, 2020 9:34am
  - coolas
    
    Are you paid to do this? Genuine question.
    
    Yes, I’m paid to scroll Kiwiblog and sift out any ideas that might be useful to my employers at the Politburo.
    
    It’s frustrating to have to read so much shite to find the occasional gem, but hey I need the job, and they haven’t asked me to take a 20% cut yet.
    
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    April 16, 2020 10:06am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I am glad we are worrying the COL so much that they need paid informants to keep their eyes on us.
      Bu wait there’s more, remember 1975…
      
      5 3
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      April 16, 2020 11:15am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    coolas no doubt derives some amusement from creating a small ripple in the comfortable echo chamber. No room for dissent in your bubble, Gravelroad?
    
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    April 16, 2020 12:14pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I keep mine largely dissent free with copper sulphate crystals.
      
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      April 16, 2020 1:36pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Read my question again MMA.
      It was not about ripples, dissent, echos or bubbles.
      Coolas said he/she found the comments on here to be sad and very boring.
      So my question was: why bother to waste time reading them then?
      Your attempts at ascerbic wit and the putdown should at least address the subject.
      
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      April 16, 2020 4:44pm
      - sam green
        
        Many of the comments are very sad Gravelroad. In out country where people are rallying, a country that I feel immensely proud of, there are people here who in their grumpy minority, I might ask why on earth they live here. Trump will have you. Off you go.
        
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        April 16, 2020 8:59pm
      - Gravelroad
        
        Sam Green – “Off you go” ? What, back home where I came from?
        That’s a rather right wing view these days – some might even say racist.
        
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        April 17, 2020 9:22am
I remember when

A memorable eulogy.
Really we lost mum 10 years ago. At first it was small details which grew greater as time passed. Then it became the occasional good day. Eventually, she didn’t recognize us and all we could do was sit with her. Visits became a sense of duty an obligation.
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April 16, 2020 9:04am
Poppa

It now seems obvious that Peters & Robertson have put Cindy in her place & she is going to have to open the jail doors

The language has changed from “essential services” to “safe operating”. So how many new clipboard warriors will be hired to go around policing this?

I know one thing for sure, now that Cindy has a had a taste of the control of the masses she will not want to release it easily
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April 16, 2020 9:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

PTPM take note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYoS0xcXfoo
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April 16, 2020 9:11am
brett68

According to the latest poll by DPFs company, Curia
Labour 51%
National 34%
Greens 6%
Act 2-3%
NZ First not mentioned.

https://twitter.com/bryce_edwards/status/1250500689907683328
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April 16, 2020 9:15am
rererangihirihiri

Does anyone else on here scroll straight past what that squeezer Simon Gotlieb scribbles?
Tosser.
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April 16, 2020 9:20am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh, boo hoo. Need a tissue, snowflake?
  
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  April 16, 2020 12:11pm
- Michael NZ
  
  No I read him before down ticking.
  Because sometimes he makes sense.
  
  He’s not a drive-by like Milky is, yet.
  
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  April 16, 2020 12:37pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    He may not be a drive-by but he’s certainly a glance-ignore.
    
    3 1
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    April 16, 2020 3:32pm
Jigsaw

Recently DPF castigated Trump for his mention of antibiotics with regard to the Chinese virus. In the 4thApril edition of the Spectator there is an article (ix)by Rebecca Weisser that begins by noting that on March 29th of this year Professor Didier Raoult a world expert in infectious deseases claimed his hospital in France had treated over one thousand Covid-19 patients with a generic anti-malaria drug and an antibiotic and only one person had died.
DPF claimed in his post that he knew from age 10 that antibiotics were useless against a virus. Perhaps he should tell this to Professor Raoult and then tell Trump that his ideas obviously have some merit- and even apologise…….
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April 16, 2020 9:23am
- Sacha
  
  Antibiotics are commonly used to treat opportunistic lung infections which arrive after a virus invasion. So, yes, their use may have prevented deaths from the ‘complications’ following a CV19 infection.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:14pm
Michael NZ

Jigsaw

HydroxyChloroquine 5 days 2x
Zinc 5 days 1x
Antibiotic 5 days 2X

Best before you are too sick.
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April 16, 2020 9:39am
bruceavon

Apparently latest poll has Labour on 48% National on 31% greens on 9% NZF 6% ACT 5%
Ugly but very predictable. It won’t be like that on Election Day. But it looks grim at the moment. Good news for ACT.
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April 16, 2020 9:39am
- Mr Coronavirus
  
  I am cursed with a landline. All because if we get rid of it grandma won’t ring.
  
  The political surveys based upon landlines shows that 80% of retirees who would have voted Labour two months ago are down to 51% and the 10% that voted National two months ago are now up to 37%.
  
  The few young people who answered the survey phone call stated ‘Greens’ as they haven’t heard much about the other parties and are yet to pay tax, let alone a power bill.
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:33am
kowtow

Comrades , I enjoyed the spectacle of the leaders of the Media Party demanding more tax payer money to be spent on them to get them out of their troubles seeing as how real world businesses weren’t spending real world money on them advertising.These are the same people who a short time ago were hailing the same govt as being a world leader in business affairs as they were no longer focussing on such unimportant things as GDP when it came to govt accounts and the budget.

We were in a brave new wonderful world of wellness , GDP no longer important …..

That being the case I think the govt should stick to its principles of well being and the Media should too , as they thought “wellbeing” was so groundbreaking and world leading.

The govt should offer the begging Media Party organisations a huge transfer of well being , that’ll keep ’em afloat .

The other thing they were whinging about was the gubmint spending our tax dollars on foreign orgs such as google and face book , and they wanted our tax dollars spent locally , specifically on them.
How very queer , until they were about to go under the Media Party were all for “internationalism” , spending our hard earned tax on things like Pacific islands and seas level rise , on carbon taxes to solve global problems , on killing whole industries as they were carbon based or on the wrong side of history . On smashing the farming sector for being dirty etc

But now they’re begging for tax payer money , created from hard working tourism , farming , exporting : all “dirty”, “polluting” industries ……

The Media Party are victims of their own virtue signalling and now the cows have come home to the milking shed ,I find no room for pity .

In fact I’m enjoying the irony of the whole thing.
TheMedia Party helped create the panic and now they can reap the rewards of their irresponsiblity.
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April 16, 2020 9:50am
- Libertarians are right
  
  The Left are making a huge thing about Bridges being burned by the head of TVNZ when he asked why we should be wasting money on them at all. His response was the YOU aren’t, obviously pointing out that Bridges isn’t in Government.
  
  A couple points:
  1) We as tax payers (who Bridges is explicitly representing in his role on the committee) are funding TVNZ. We own them, we should be spending that money elsewhere.
  2) The head of a SOE should NOT be making aggressive politically biased attacks on politicians, especially when that SOE is a broadcaster. It completely destroys the credibility of his organisation (I know they had none to begin with and the bias was already evident but still). If the head of TVNZ cannot at least pretend to be unbiased the only option is for him to resign.
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:48am
  - bruceavon
    
    Well, that’s all very well but governments of both sides have agreed to fund TVNZ including during the 9 years with National Simon was a part of. I have always thought it should either be sold and become fully commercial or become a true public broadcaster. At the moment it does neither very well.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:05am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Actually it is the practice of presenting bias as impartiality that is the biggest problem. If bias is out in the open then viewers can take that into account.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:47am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      But then they’ll all get abused like Richardson, Hosking and Henry. Oh wait, it’s only the right who declare their bias and only the left that do the abusing.
      
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      April 16, 2020 1:42pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The trouble is.. Ardern has mates all through NZ’s Media world…
  The taxpayer will be bailing the MSM out…. and we will continue to be fed sycophantic dross…
  as Peter Dunne notes in his opinion piece:
  
  Our national television news was never a paragon of stimulating reporting and commentary, but now it has descended into little more than a nightly banal morality lecture about how we should all be behaving, and how well we are all doing.
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/15/1129673/end-this-orwellian-version-of-nz
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:56am
  - kowtow
    
    Mates , indeed.
    
    The media pack , for a change ,went wild at her first briefing after the Clarky Bikey Affair , it really was a frenzy , you could see she wasn’t enjoying being grilled , for once in her very priveliged , protected run…..
    
    Just as it was getting very hot there came from the floor and I don’t know who it was , a question on a completely un Clarkey Bikey subject and all the hiss and steam literally vanished , poof , gone , just like that .And none of the pack dared go back to the Clarkey Bikey Affair.
    
    There’s a reporteress out there who will forever be a Comrade Hero of the Revolution . I’d love to know who it was , and the Press Gallery will all know who the Toady was.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:28am
- Ruahine
  
  The Media are part of the government really just in the same way the Unions were able to get only Countdown and Foodstuffs to be allowed to supply food during lockdown.
  The big supermarkets have Union members your local butcher and fruitshop does not.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:32pm
lazza

Parameters for Ideological B S meter.

… watches and generally agrees with CNN

….watches and generally agrees with Fox

… denies either of the above but displays obvious prejudice including quotes such as … “some of my best friends are Maori”… “Good we went early and strong” & “nine long years of neglect”
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April 16, 2020 9:57am
Maggy Wassilieff

Back in the good old days…
Little children sat at their allocated desk space in a classroom of about 30 children.
Now with open plan classes up to 90 kiddie-winkles move around a large space, sitting hither & thither, touching loads of different surfaces and co-mingling with numerous groups.

I suggest it might become a nightmare to trace all contacts if some Covid-19 viruses get away on basically asymptomatic children who then carry the virus into homes.

On a similar note… I forsee an end to our Public service/schools/NGOs embracing hongi at each meet & greet occasion.
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April 16, 2020 10:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s even worse in one Christchurch school where 300 get together with multiple teachers.
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:19am
  - YesMinister
    
    That Christchurch school being an experiment located in the poorest neighborhood where the students complain nobody will teach them maths, while the government compliments itself on its progressivism.
    
    The sad fact is, that’s not a school. It’s a warehouse for future beneficiaries. And the poor little buggers know it.
    
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    April 16, 2020 1:55pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They do indeed. My boy opted out of that choice and is thriving at Ao Tawhiti.
      
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      April 16, 2020 4:36pm
- MCos
  
  Back in the good old days when I went to Marist Intermediate there was about fifty in our class.
  I’ve still got the class photos so I had a wee look. We even wore ties.
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:28am
- Jules99
  
  I did some work in schools a couple of years ago and I was surprised at how much hugging and kissing was going on – this is staff. It’s not acceptable or professional. Never had this sort of thing back in the day. Bring back personal space.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:27pm
- rockape
  
  It takes a village to raise a child;
  It takes a vineyard to home-school one.
  
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  April 16, 2020 5:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Stephen Joyce asks some curly questions about our Covid-19 testing
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/steven-joycenz_coronavirus-lockdown-newzealand-activity-6655556375810318337-KqKb
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April 16, 2020 10:19am
- bruceavon
  
  Why is Stephen Joyce asking these questions? ffs. Where are the opposition?
  These are exactly the sort of things I would like to know. Bridges should be doing this. the committee is very civilised etc but it is something of a trap for the opposition.
  why is the government not releasing this stuff? to me the whole key to this testing and contact tracing. Especially contact tracing.
  They need to sort out their app.
  And they need to release all the data they have.
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:37am
  - rockape
    
    Criticising the Government in a crisis always looks bad. That’s why the old attack dogJoyce is fronting it not Bridges.
    
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    April 16, 2020 2:31pm
Durden

“The Prime Minister has condemned commercial landlords who are hiking rents during the coronavirus lockdown, labelling their behaviour “utterly unfathomable”

Unless she gives specific examples, I think she is lying again. Or lying by omission by not describing the context and providing all the facts. No sane landlord want to lose or change tenants at this point in time.

With residential tenancies she has already signalled to tenants that they don’t have to pay rent for up to 60 days before landlords can invoke any action and even then through Tenancy Tribunal. But tenants can leave anytime they want with minimum notice.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-blasts-commercial-rent-hikes-amid-covid-19-lockdown.html
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April 16, 2020 10:29am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. If I was a commercial landlord of say office space or retail I would be terrified I was going to lose my tenants forever.
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:39am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Maybe the particular leases in question had an initial rent holiday whereby the business paid next to nothing for say the first 6 months to allow them to fit out and get established.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:36am
- Libertarians are right
  
  She’s probably trying to push suspicion onto Bob after his fantastic article the other day. When anyone in this country thinks of a commercial landlord, he’s generally the first person they think about.
  
  She obviously can’t name him but wants people to think of him.
  
  Also, I should point out the irony that this is the same idiotic Government that pushed a minimum wage hike on employers a couple weeks ago which at this time is also utterly unfathomable.
  
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  April 16, 2020 10:53am
- Ruahine
  
  Landlords are of course one of the ‘Class enemies’
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:35pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Why is she not prepared to name and shame? Obvious I would have thought, she is lying again.
    
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    April 16, 2020 2:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Press conference on Al Jazeera. Trump pitching obnoxious reporters against each other for their rude behaviour. Usual suspects.
Paraphrased: “Is anyone freezing? It is very cold out here. We might be finishing early”
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April 16, 2020 10:54am
Scooter

I would like to know from JA if we do eliminate the virus, what will she do about our borders months and years down the track? Eventually people will want to visit, NZers will travel overseas again, how will she ensure that none of those people are infected overseas and are not bringing in the virus again. Is she going to make every single person go into quarantine or have compulsory testing on arrival? I don’t think she thought that one through.
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April 16, 2020 11:03am
- Michael NZ
  
  I don’t think she thinks more than a week at a time.
  She has teams to do that for her.
  
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  April 16, 2020 12:33pm
  - Dougal10
    
    I think that you are being generous with a week. From what I see it more like hours and varies with audience.
    
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    April 16, 2020 6:44pm
Lance

MSM in Britain is sinking to new levels of fake news and general scumbag behaviour
ITV set up an interview with Piers Morgan and UK’s care minister.
There were some Skype type problems at the beginning and she had no video, she giggled (nervous giggle) while this was being sorted.
Then the ITV turds constantly replayed the giggle during the interview as though she was laughing at the death tole in old folks homes.
Utter utter bastards.
The real interview can be seen for comparison.
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April 16, 2020 11:08am
Durden

On another post I read — “full quarantining which would have been logistically impractical ” This is the most annoying and lamest of excuses that government apologists keep putting out. The government never thought about it or tried.

NZ has without drama handled upwards of 35,000 visitors to Auckland region for the World Masters games in 2017.
https://d3tfdru9q5sbcz.cloudfront.net/2019/11/Economic-Evaluation-of-WMG-2017.pdf

NZ handled 75,000 arrivals in the month of Sept 2011 for Rugby World Cup across NZ.
http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/NationalAccounts/impact-of-rugby-world-cup.aspx

They all had to stay and eat somewhere when the demand on accommodation was high.

NZ could have shut down all arrivals other than Kiwis returning home from Mid Feb. This figure has been quoted as around 40-50k. Everyone could and should have been in closely monitored government provided quarantine. While the country carried on.

Some back-of-the envelope calculations.
Options for stay were normal tourist accommodation of course. Or being summer, student Halls of Residences in universities, army barracks, campervan parks etc.

We had enough cafes/caterers in the country to feed them just like we did the hordes at the other two events. Food just needed to be shipped to them.

Looking at tourist spend figures in above reports, an average cost of $500 pp/per day (some would have shared accommodation) for 14 days – $7000 would be a reasonably lavish estimate.

That is equivalent of $350 Million for every 50,000 people. Include the costs for mobilising under utilised police (chasing swimmers) , army+reserve (playing training games) and medical professionals (half of them sent home) for monitoring.

The problem would have been having sufficient tests kits (70k kits at the start from memory?) , geared up labs, and PPEs–I don’t believe the Government have ever been ready with this and could not handle it.

Even today no one asks the government how many test kits do we have left in stock.
When are we going to get antibody testing kits.

But let is say they paid heaps and got stocks in somehow with some help from friends (Tindall et al).

Find it very difficult to think the cost would have been more $1B. But widly doubling it gives us $2B. This was the price to let the economy carry on. By not making the right decision, and putting lock down of incoming kiwis in the too hard basket, and instead shutting down the whole economy effectively due to Covid-19 propogated by returnees, we now have at least $50B in costs and untold costs to businesses and people over a long period of time.

The government never applied its independent brains to our specific conditions and considered what is best for the country. Instead it due to lack of judgement it hoped to save tourism, education, concerts like WOMAD/tool, and most importantly Jacinda’s international profile hug fest in Christchurch.

Having screwed up, they now are using the WHO as a scapegoat for the advice they followed.

They have to pay.
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April 16, 2020 11:23am
- MCos
  
  You do understand what quarantine is?
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:34am
  - MCos
    
    It’s under Q in the dictionary.
    
    noun
    a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease.
    
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    April 16, 2020 11:37am
    - Durden
      
      What is your point ?
      
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      April 16, 2020 1:09pm
      - MCos
        
        “NZ has without drama handled upwards of 35,000 visitors to Auckland region for the World Masters games in 2017.”
        Those people weren’t quarantined for 14 days, nor would it have been logistically possible.
        Your contention that 40-50,000 people could be closely monitored is absurd.
        There’s a continuous stream of people arriving who would have to be bussed to wherever.
        BTW
        That’s 4-5 times the entire NZ prison population.
        
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        April 16, 2020 4:24pm
- Michael NZ
  
  and hopefully they will at the next election.
  Problem is can we reply on NZ media to tell the electorate?
  
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  April 16, 2020 12:29pm
- Durden
  
  The claimed issue was lack of accomodation. If it was personnel to impose qurantine, then that is what police, army, reserves are for. Add underemployed aviation security, customs border protection, general event/venue security service personnel we have enough.
  
  We are not quarantining criminals, mostly just overseeing normal compliant people who understand the reasons. China did it brute force. Other countries have used electronic tags. Also visible indelible ink stamps which fade eventually on visible body to allow neighbours/public to dob in flouters.
  
  My point is govt never tried seriously. And they definitely were woefully short on pandemic planning.
  We don’t need to overkill like the Chinese experience for this guy versus his NZ experience.
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrdJjV4viI
  
  But NZ was naive and immature. And my point is Jacinda is providing excuses without having even tried. Instead of preparation for Christchurch hug festival, if they understood the danger, ignored the WHO and did what was required to keep country safe, it was eminently doable.
  
  We seem to have for years done well keeping farming bio hazards out without draconian measures that kill the economy. We could have definitely contained human killing pathogens if we were serious.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:15am
Mr Coronavirus

Where have all the teddy bears gone?

I went for my usual morning walk in Milford this morning.

Teddy bears are coming down from windows. People smell freedom and are starting to act accordingly. The teddy bear is now a symbol of imprisonment.

Huge change in people’s attitudes. I saw almost zero social distancing, the angry frightened looks have been replaced with smiles and there are far more cars out and people driving to the beach.

I think it’s over.

If Jacinda doesn’t start to deliver, she’s toast.
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April 16, 2020 11:25am
- alex Masterley
  
  I have just been for my walk as well. No bears and not much movement. I think given there is nothing but a tissue between level 4 and level 3 people might feel had by this government and react accordingly.
  
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  April 16, 2020 2:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep, nothing changes in my little bubble….
    
    I think folks will be pushing boundaries by the time Level 3 arrives..
    
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    April 16, 2020 7:11pm
Surely Knott

“The Workshop” think tank has published a document “How to talk about covid 19″.

Their advice includes ” 1. Direct your communications towards people
who may have limited understanding of the
issue and are open to being informed and
taking action (this is most people)
2. Don’t test your communications with those
who already deeply understand the crisis and what is needed.
3. Avoid developing your communications with
the express purpose of persuading people
who have entrenched, oppositional views to
collective action. This leads to mythbusting
and negating, techniques that can inadvertently reinforce problematic narratives and ways of thinking.”
So direct your conversations to the uneducated masses – yeah ok. The document also lists questions and then answers with thinking to avoid and thinking to embrace. One question is “Who is affected? ”

The thinking to avoid answer is “Vulnerable people . Only the elderly and already sick get it, therefore I don’t need to worry or change how I live.”

The thinking to embrace is “Anyone. Younger people can also get the virus. However there are those who will be more impacted. Older people and those in communities already experiencing health inequalities, for instance Māori and Pacific communities. People who are vulnerable.”
This communication approach will,”Surface better thinking using values of equity and justice, frames of public and common good, journey metaphors, e.g. “no-one left behind”, explanatory chains about how inequality in health systems occur.”

Who is affected should be a straight forward objective statement of fact. The “thinking to avoid” is true. You ARE significantly more likely to become seriously ill or die if you are elderly especially over 70, and if you are young you are very unlikely to suffer death or be severely impacted. The thinking they want you to embrace is false, while anyone can be infected it is unlikely a young person will die and Maori have not been more impacted .

How can you have honest conversations or develop effective policy without transparency around the facts. This type of mass propaganda tool about how to think and how to answer questions is weird.
https://www.theworkshop.org.nz/publications/how-to-talk-about-covid-19
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April 16, 2020 11:41am
- kowtow
  
  Talking of uneducated , the latest radio ad from the Ministry of Truth , now that they’ve moved on from telling the Plebs to wash their hands , is now telling people not to dump their rubbish in the streets or to leave unwanted shite outside of Op Shops , and the most worrying of all , if you’re being beaten up by your latest boyfriend then phone the Cops , well duh .
  
  Bit of a worry what the gubmint thinks people need educating on……
  
  Something very rotten in the state of Aotearoa.
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:58am
- YesMinister
  
  Well that’s exceptionally creepy. “Problematic narratives and ways of thinking.” That sentence is pure Orwell.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:53pm
- coge
  
  “Today we are here to talk about. Climate Change”
  
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  April 16, 2020 4:13pm
Michael NZ

China must not benefit from the Wuhan Virus and their “Wet Markets” if it was their wet markets.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/how_china_can_exploit_the_coronavirus_to_defeat_the_usa.html
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April 16, 2020 12:13pm
Michael NZ

This will still be a bugbear for all so called Freedom and Liberty countries to address.

Not doing so, assists Sharia Law, which is a Human Rights Travesty.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/sharia_the_law_of_the_land_in_afghanistan.html
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April 16, 2020 12:15pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Perhaps some country could invade Afghanistan and end this outrage…
  
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  April 16, 2020 5:22pm
  - Doc Holliday
    
    Not often one gets a larf here. Keep it up!
    
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    April 17, 2020 6:47am
Fletch

CNN caught posting Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) propaganda almost verbatim in a news story. Now trying to change it by stealth.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/15/cnn-edit-article-repeating-chinese-propaganda/
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April 16, 2020 12:40pm
Inandout

When is this Maori roadblock shit going to end, well before there is violence.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/coronavirus-kaikohe-couple-harassed-illegally-detained-at-covid-19-community-roadblock-on-trip-to-supermarket.html

Take name and address, let them go to the supermarket, and when they get home?
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April 16, 2020 1:02pm
- Nickc2
  
  More importantly, why is this question not put to Cindy at one of her press conferences with TV cameras in attendance? Oh, that’s right, questions are handed out to friendly members of the press gallery by Cindy’s office and they deliberately don’t want questions about Maori Militia – too embarrassing and they want the Maori vote.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:20pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ihumatao I understand is under a rahui. Maori can do what the like within their limited tribal authority but separate rights over land subject to the Property Law Act are not available.
  It’s Fletcher’s land to dispose of under law as they please. Any intervention in that is illegal.
  Why have our Police turned into pussycat furballs?
  Do we have to sack them if they will not perform according to law? Their first duty is to uphold the law not ignore it–that may be a nuisance and others may object but where is the Police mojo or have they been trained as kindy workers?
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:47pm
- kowtow
  
  As long as the Crown aids and abets certain people to break the law , and no other authority in the country calls it out.
  
  Wally the Deputy Commissioner
  
  “Police has previously spoken around Iwi-led checkpoints – while our officers are not deployed to them, we do have staff visiting them to provide community reassurance and ensure they are operating safely.”
  
  How does one break the law “safely”?
  
  Country’s fucked.
  
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  April 16, 2020 2:10pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How does one break the law “safely”?
    Does that mean become a lackey of the PM & Co?
    Once we had Police. They knew right from wrong.
    Who re-wrote our constitution?
    
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    April 16, 2020 4:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Where do you live again? Asking for a freind
  
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  April 16, 2020 3:11pm
rangitoto

Where do I get one of those compuders Cindy was talking about? Are they useful?
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April 16, 2020 1:19pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Soimin could maybe get you one…
  
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  April 16, 2020 5:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear..
Folks working for Stuff have been asked to take a 15% pay-cut for 12 weeks.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121048017/stuff-staff-asked-to-accept-15-pay-cut-for-12-weeks-after-huge-drop-in-advertising

And this is a real hit for the “workers”….
because I wouldn’t have thought $50,000 was much of an income.
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April 16, 2020 1:26pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Poor buggas on $50,001 are paying the price for dumb decisions made by their $$$$$-earning bosses.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:32pm
- Nickc2
  
  Does that mean that they will begin publishing the truth about this so called man-made-climate-change crap using the remaining staff?
  No readers, no advertisers, which came first?
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:46pm
- YesMinister
  
  Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of mindless propaganda spewing sycophants.
  
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  April 16, 2020 1:51pm
- Inandout
  
  This pay cut was announced before Jacinda gave her press conference and we wonder why those reporters don’t ask her difficult questions; they are shit scared of offending the government. Thank God for blogs like this.
  
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  April 16, 2020 2:46pm
bennerg

Did anyone else notice our prime Minister wearing camouflage at today’s press conference?
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April 16, 2020 1:41pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No, but I’ve noticed the loyal troops are lining up someone in their sights for when the s*** hits the fan.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120967553/coronavirus-ashley-bloomfield-must-step-out-of-the-prime-ministers-shadow
  
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  April 16, 2020 2:04pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “Dr Bloomfield needs to assert his authority. He needs to step out of the Prime Minister’s shadow and remind the nation that these decisions are his and his alone.”
    
    Clearly they are not Maggy.
    
    Only a full blown idiot would have delayed “action” until 15 March. Dr Bloomfield does not appear to be that stupid.
    
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    April 16, 2020 4:32pm
  - MrTips
    
    Grant’s article is correct. And it is my understanding that the DG Health politely but forcefully “reminded” the PM of his power on March 13th.
    
    It is also my understanding that Bloomfield is causing rifts in Cabinet, not intentionally, but by demanding action and assurances. And this is causing interesting fractions btw previously strong allies.
    
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    April 16, 2020 4:55pm
    - sam green
      
      Just keep saying it and you will believe it. Yet another piece of misinformation made up and promulgated on this blog.
      
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      April 16, 2020 9:27pm
I remember when

I see blogs referring to the “Diamond Princess” still mentioning the original 7 deaths. With a further death in the last few days it is now up to 12. The time since the passengers were taken off the vessel would appear to suggest there were other health problems
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April 16, 2020 2:00pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Source?
  
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  April 16, 2020 4:42pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How Legal has the Lockdown been?

Well, dear Plebs,
you’re not going to be told… if it was quite legal or not.

Legality of the lockdown
Committee chair Simon Bridges said the complete loss of civil liberties has been questioned by a range of experts from both sides of the political spectrum.

David Parker said he won’t waive legal privilege on Crown Law advice.

“The legal basis for these orders is relatively simple.”

He said he is confident that it is legal and anyone who disputes this can do so through the court.

Asked by David Seymour whether he would release the advice in secret to the committee, Parker said no.

“We, as prior governments did, are not waiving privilege.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/414367/covid-19-epidemic-response-committee-hears-from-ministers-reserve-bank-and-ctu
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April 16, 2020 2:16pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  That seems a little arrogant.
  
  5 1
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  April 16, 2020 2:49pm
- Tall Man
  
  “Open and Transparent”………….. You decide.
  
  4 2
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  April 16, 2020 4:27pm
- MrTips
  
  Parker is not someone with a track record of giving stuff up easily.
  
  6 1
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  April 16, 2020 4:57pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Government of all stripes like to maintain the confidentiality of legally privileged advice. It is a specific reason for withholding information under the the official information act, although it is supposed to be subject to a balancing test against wider public interest considerations.
  
  1 6
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  April 16, 2020 5:17pm
Surely Knott

I’m reasonably happy with the new rules being proposed for level 3. It’s certainly an improvement. But still no haircuts!!! I realise our leader is naturally blessed with a glossy mane and no grey hairs but has she really not had any makeup artists or hairdressers in the last 4 weeks. And Winston was on TV 1 this morning reporting from home looking well groomed as usual. But where was his lockdown hair?
This is the question I would like from the reporters – are politicians also been exempt from hairdressers and makeup artists at level 3 and level 4. And when will the public be able to get a haircut.
10 3
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April 16, 2020 2:22pm
- Prince
  
  Read Animal Farm lately ?
  
  11 2
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  April 16, 2020 3:02pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I feel like the horse in that story.
    
    … [Deleted – comments like that not acceptable here. Mod.]
    
    3 1
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    April 16, 2020 3:37pm
- Max Howler
  
  omg if all it takes to keep you happy is a uber chicken fried rice and a haircut, then we will be in total lockdown for an age yet 🙁
  
  1 4
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  April 16, 2020 3:30pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Go Mullet
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/11156014-3×2-700×467.jpg
  
  4 1
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  April 16, 2020 3:33pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Yep, please go 😉
    
    2 2
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    April 16, 2020 4:25pm
- Stu2
  
  “I’m reasonably happy with the new rules being proposed for level 3”
  
  Really?
  
  We are running at 15-20 new cases a day and they are suggesting this degree of lockdown is still vital? That is a lot of the economy sitting on the sidelines. A lot of businesses disappearing without trace
  
  What would we need to have happening to get to level 2?
  
  10 1
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  April 16, 2020 3:39pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The suggestion was no future infections in NZ.
    
    How can anyone assure that? Don’t we have an annual round of flu avoidance?
    Is this a ploy for NZ to go with Gates iD2020 program and have us all certified on vaccination?
    Ardern likes to be seen as a world leader.
    
    4 1
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    April 16, 2020 4:48pm
  - Stu2
    
    I might have given the impression I was advocating level 2 – not at all.
    
    I was hoping for a less restrictive level 3. Stuff has a byline “What can you do if and when the coronavirus lockdown is lifted?” – the level 3 described today is still considerably locked down, hardly lifted
    
    The mention of level 2 was what would we need to achieve to eventually get there. And if the answer is elimination, the economic and social damage in the meantime will be immense
    
    4 1
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    April 16, 2020 6:00pm
- david
  
  Pssst, Winston is actually as bald as a badger and wears a hairpiece. You heard it here first. Meanwhile, back at the ranch ……….
  
  3 1
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  April 16, 2020 4:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJET_p39-lg

Why was America running low on masks? CDC recommends citizens wear masks.
Supply was outpaced by a sudden demand. National, and state governments have hoarded supplies.
Local manufacturers can’t quickly ramp up production. N95 masks are hard to make. Ingredients are scarce. The Strategic National Stockpile was quite small. It wasn’t replenished after the Swine Flu epidemic of 2009. The supply chain is based in China.
3 2
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April 16, 2020 2:25pm
- Ian Hawthorn
  
  No. It was because most of the masks were bought up and sent to China.
  
  2 0
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  April 16, 2020 11:09pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2357OgR9Y
Austria and Denmark partially re-opening. Czech Republic had an extreme lockdown. Might last until May 24th. Belarus has no lockdown. South Korea and Sweden doing fairly well. It’s a bit of an embarrassment for doom and gloomers.
8 2
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April 16, 2020 2:26pm
Benedict Yu

So as I feared I will still be in my bubble of one going slowly mad. But I will be able to order a pizza. Kia mihi for that Jacinda.
5 3
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April 16, 2020 2:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fuck the pizza. I’m still waiting for my whisky to turn up. 12 days now and the courier has not even picked it up.
  Won’t be long before that company is named by me.
  
  8 2
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  April 16, 2020 3:16pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Have used Whiskey and More for quite a while now and have placed a couple of orders for friends during the lock down and apart from having orders limited to 3 bottles by the government they have been great and all orders received within 7 days even the rural ones.
    
    5 2
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    April 16, 2020 4:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Tall Man.
      There is a company that will deliver by 4.30pm if you order before 12pm. It is NZ wide
      
      3 2
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      April 16, 2020 5:04pm
      - mara
        
        Who are they Steve Otto? Why a secret?
        
        2 1
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        April 16, 2020 6:53pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    They’ll be shaking in their boots.
    
    1 6
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    April 16, 2020 4:35pm
Prince

That 1pm address from the throne was something else. Finger wagging and all, Ardern handed down in detail what level 3 ‘looks like’.
She is loving this.
Her Mormon side is coming out now, spelling out the rules for us all under the guise of ‘Kindness’.
I’d love to know who is behind her, if anyone. Is she just making this stuff up ?
Taking questions, she gestures from the pulpit to a throng of adoring reporters, craving for just a look, a smile, a nod. Whereas a week ago she would defer to her loyal lieutenant Bloomfield, she now strides into the Health arena with confidence she has all the answers, all the knowledge that others take years to develop.
Has she gone too far ? I guess time will tell. But this is not the country it was a month ago, and I don’t recall voting for anything like it.
18 2
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April 16, 2020 3:16pm
- Tall Man
  
  Her “mormon” side …. her Moron side has been on display from day one.
  
  9 2
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  April 16, 2020 4:23pm
Openmindfulness

I have messaged and verbally expressed my frustration to Skinny at a) having a modem we neither want or need delivered to our home where we have 2 school age children then b)it being paid for by the long suffering tax payer…plus the cost of delivery by courier. Our school did not give us the opportunity to ‘unsubscribe’ and c) when I contacted and waited for the call to 0800 4 SKINNY to be answered as directed, NONE of the information supplied on the paperwork could be used to identify the unit for it to be collected, so I had to OPEN the modem, as instructed by their staff member, breaking the seal to provide the broadband number and IMEI off the physical modem. So the goods and packaging are not being returned in original, undamaged condition.This is unbelievable followed by d) a courier to drop off a bag and presumably another one to pick it up. What a colossal money making exercise for someone.

The staff member I dealt with did check with her supervisor and this was the process we had to follow. Then we had to give our collection address, rather than working backwards from the information on the named and addressed packing slip with serial number. If the call centre don’t have this information, they should.
6 0
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April 16, 2020 3:42pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s almost as if the schooling at home processes have been put together in a hurry in response to some kind of emergency.
  
  1 6
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  April 16, 2020 5:13pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Yup. Great idea, not thought out that well….. Oh how unusual.
    
    5 2
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    April 16, 2020 6:26pm
virtualmark

Strongly recommend reading this http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/Corona.pdf

Very credible economic commentator on these sort of extreme events.

For the last month I’ve been a bit uneasy about relying on the University of Otago’s public health modelling … mainly because their modelling of other events would see alcohol banned and all roads with a 30km/hr speed limit. I just don’t trust their judgements on balancing risk and reward.
10 1
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April 16, 2020 4:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I trust very little from Otago Uni. They seem to be infected by a leftish truth bug which ignore sense, facts and consequences. They don’t present statistics or models except mangled numeric toys.
  
  6 2
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  April 16, 2020 4:53pm
- Stu2
  
  Thanks, brilliant
  
  Interesting that the TPM model optimistic line is too high (pg 32), and the whole thing looks like needing a rework to lock onto the real world
  
  The antibody tests may eventually cause more recalibration, if immune people are picked up that have never been tested
  
  2 0
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  April 16, 2020 4:56pm
rangitoto

I see Australia’s Wuhan lab flu numbers are continuing to be better than ours per proportion of population.
4 1
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April 16, 2020 4:24pm
oldfella

Stephen Joyce says what I’ve felt since this Wuhan virus problem emerged. Please, Cindy, stop saying how we will eliminate the virus (as you said yet again at today’s briefing). Not going to happen without a vaccine. Lockdowns won’t do it, nor will being kind.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12325133
14 1
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April 16, 2020 4:39pm
- coolas
  
  Who’s Stephen Joyce?
  
  2 5
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  April 16, 2020 8:46pm
Inandout

‘Hundreds of people have broken the lockdown rules in the past 12 days, leading to arrests and court appearances.

People in Auckland, Christchurch, Dunedin and Invercargill have been caught by police after breaking the coronavirus lockdown rules.

While a few have been set to appear in court on other offences, many have been charged with obstructing a medical officer under the Health Act or breaching the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act.

During a briefing on Tuesday afternoon, director-general of heath, Ashley Bloomfield, said 263 people had been issued with warnings over breaching lockdown rules, with 16 of them facing charges’.

I was wondering could a well paid lawyer argue that if it is OK for Hone to flout the bubble rules, then why not his/her client?
9 1
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April 16, 2020 4:41pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Hone must be considered a role model in his situation. We can only have one law and if the Police, such as they are, can aid Hone and implicitly express their approval of his freewheeling that must be an adequate defence or at least an arguable one at the appellate Court level.
  
  4 1
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  April 16, 2020 4:57pm
- Allan
  
  And more will break the Level 3 rules as well but I think that it will be in the many 1000’s.
  
  3 1
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  April 16, 2020 5:46pm
info@cruzpro.com

Most businesses need banks, couriers and post offices to be open. So far I’ve not been able to find out if this is going to be the case under level 3 lockdown. Anyone know?
2 1
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April 16, 2020 5:02pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  At this point we can’t even take a credit card order. No way to deposit the credit card debit!
  
  3 1
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  April 16, 2020 5:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The PM said no face-to-face contact…
  She’d argue that the banks are open… as you can engage your manager/business advisor online.
  
  1 1
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  April 16, 2020 7:18pm
oldfella

Germany has just announced their plans to reopen the country.
Stores up to 800m^2 (8,800 sq,ft) can be opened starting Monday April 20, with hygiene and distance restrictions
Also can reopen then: bike and car stores regardless of size, as well as libraries, archives, zoos, botanical gardens
Bavaria, which has been the hardest hit, wants to wait a little longer
Hairdressers: May 4 (with protection)
Schools: gradually reopen starting May 4, in Bavaria starting May 11. Classes prepping for HS leaving exams come first
Restaurants (other than takeaway), beer gardens,… Not so fast
Mass events (concerts, soccer matches,…) not until August 31
Hotels: only for business, not tourism
Religious assemblies remain prohibited
4 0
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April 16, 2020 5:12pm
rightoverlabour

Hmm Interesting

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources
2 1
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April 16, 2020 6:00pm
rightoverlabour

Sound familiar?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/coronavirus-lockdowns-turn-political-protests-200415205211265.html
1 1
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April 16, 2020 6:07pm
rightoverlabour

Does anyone know if Kings College kids have to be in uniform for their on line learning? And if so why?
2 0
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April 16, 2020 6:10pm
mikenmildagain

Dotard-in-Chief and noted constitutional scholar Donald J Trump believes he can adjourn congress unilaterally. To deal with the pandemic? No, so he can make judicial appointments without the usual senate scrutiny:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-forcefully-adjourn-congress-appoint-nominees
2 6
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April 16, 2020 7:17pm
- Nickc2
  
  You appear to be suffering from TDS.
  The president claimed his administration is understaffed and blamed congressional Democrats for holding up his confirmations and stonewalling his agenda.
  Trump added that he has the constitutional authority to dismiss both chambers and accused Congress of failing the American people and shirking their responsibilities as elected leaders.
  The president claimed his administration is understaffed and blamed congressional Democrats for holding up his confirmations and stonewalling his agenda.
  
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  April 16, 2020 11:12pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The president wants to pretend that appointing more under-qualified judges is a priority during the pandemic emergency. This is a pretext to give himself the authority to make recess appointments.
    
    It is by no means clear that the senate will acquiesce, although they senate majority is generally meager to appease their imperial master.
    If the senate complies, the house of representatives would also need to agree to adjourn. Should the house not do so, the president has, by some theories, the power to adjourn congress unilaterally. This power has never been exercised, despite civil war and world war, the great depression, etc.
    
    So it would be an historic expansion of executive power at the expense of the legislature. It will probably happen. I mean, it just wouldn’t be right for the president to be unable to install judges in an election year, emergency or not.
    
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    April 17, 2020 7:20am
Max

David seymour posted that the prisoner voting bill was pushed through select committee today 16/04/2020 when the submissions were to close on the 24th, is that true or false?
If this is true, IMHO this government shows a lack of respect for the people of NZ who have sacrificed much in the name of saving lives to push through their socialist regime during a state of emergency. Where is that handbreak we hear so much about?
If it’s not true and they have ceased their ideological legislation during a state of emergency, I withdraw and apologise.
6 0
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April 16, 2020 7:17pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The Justice Committee met today. Submissions close on 24 April, according to the parliamentary website. I suppose it would be possible for the committee to cut short the submissions period and proceed, but it seems unlikely.
  
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  April 16, 2020 7:52pm
Fletch

I am trying to do an online infographic thing comparing the actions of Donald Trump and Jacinda Ardern as regards who was the first to act, etc..
There’s a ton of info out there but it’s made difficult by the fact that each U.S state can enact their own bans. This is what I have so far at the link – see what you think –

https://time.graphics/line/367298

You can move it up/down with the mouse and zoom in or out.

Any ideas on additions, how it can be improved? As I said, there is plenty of other data I could add, but I kind of wanted to keep it fairly simple.
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April 16, 2020 7:46pm
Gus87

Why is Helen clark against on Trump’s decision to halt the funding against the corrupt WHO. Does she side with the CCP? Is that the reason she did not get the top job from the UN because, she had no support from America. Is she Groomed by the CCP? The leaders from other countries who are against Trump’s decision should fund it themselves and stop whinging.
2 0
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April 16, 2020 10:53pm

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