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April 17, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 April 2020

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krazykiwi

One of the few useful things in the Washington Post is an annual competition. Readers get to submit a word with just one letter altered, and to supply a meaning for that new word.

One of my favourites is: “Intaxication. That feeling of euphoria on receiving a tax refund which quickly disappears when you realise it was your money in the first place.”

It’s worth bearing this in mind as the government looks to adjust the threat level to 3 (or 3.5 more likely).

Just remember the reality is our civil liberties were cavalierly and unnecessarily taken from us. Rather than thankfulness, anger and holding to account is called for.
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April 17, 2020 8:00am
- Unity
  
  Actually, all of this has made me come to the conclusion as to how easy it is to make NZ into a Police State. Call an epidemic a pandemic and close the whole country down. The people are then terrified of their own shadow and other people’s shadows. I’m not saying that’s what has happened or minimising what’s going on, but it certainly shows what could happen and how easy it would be. We should be alert to this.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:26am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The Government didn’t call it a pandemic, the WHO did.
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:40am
    - Ford Prefect
      
      Nothing to do with what the WHO think. It was Jacinda’s mate who told her how horrid this disease was and to close the country immediately.
      
      Has anyone given her friend a call to see if we should lift the lock down?
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:08am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        The number is on the back of one of the thousands of letters that she received to ban the single use plastic bags . . .
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    A Police State is what you have when sworn Police Officers ignore their warrants of office and become lackeys of the PM or just do their own thing.
    
    We have a Police State now. The Police don’t uphold law but make their own rules.
    Ihumatao?
    Northland?
    ………….. (Fill in your own.)
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:02am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Co-opting airport bag-scanner operators to patrol the streets on their behalf
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:20am
    - Ruawai
      
      I don’t like the police commissioner at the start saying if you are out without a reason expect to end up in a cold cell, Jacinda encouraging telling on others, then Jacinda saying if we are not careful in level 3 she will change the rules. All very authoritarian and very like school where students have to own up to stop all others getting into trouble and losing privileges.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Q:
      What happened to the separation of powers
      Legislation…MP’s
      Enforcement..Police
      Interpretation…courts
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:03am
      - Sideoiler
        
        What happened to the separation of powers
        
        There has never been any, it’s what happens when you have no written constitution no limits on the power of the state.
        New Zealanders think we live in a democracy, we don”t.
        Police have the power to make law by regulation (firearms)
        Courts ignore the will of the parliament (3 strikes)
        And most of the population are prepared to crash a web site to dob their fellow citizens into the plod.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:56pm
  - kowtow
    
    Always remember the role the so called fourth estste have in all this.
    
    Cheer leading power or holding it to account.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:48am
    - G152
      
      Sadly the 4th estate is now Fake news telling us how and what to think
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:15am
  - Ruahine
    
    What excuse will be used to shut down Anzac Day next year when this lot get back in. Let me think. Oh!Oh! a storm is coming. There could be wind and rain.
    People, People, its a climate change emergency and thousands could die.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Who would want to ‘shut down’ Anzac Day?
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:45am
      - Nickc2
        
        A leftist government. The same mob who have shut it down for the last two years. ANZAC Day 2018 was shut down due to the shooting of Muslims in Christchurch and this year (25th April 2020), no gatherings are permitted courtesy of Cindy and the COVID-19 fiassco. One can only guess what next year’s banning of ANZAC day will be due to.
        Never forget, it was members of the NZ Labour Party who were spitting at our troops returning from Vietnam.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No one is ‘banning’ Anzac Day. If you think our country’s sacrifices can only be commemorated by a parade, then I feel sorry for you.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:55pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I think that Anzac Day is far more symbolic and meaningful to most of us, excepting the agitating radicals who hate themselves and by extension the country that sustains them. It should be our national day, not the divisive, agenda-driven bullshit that is Waitangi Day.
      
      I am far more moved and emotionally responsive to the hauntingly beautiful and poignant strains of the loan bugler at dawn than I am some warbling women dawdling along with a group of our largely second rate supine politicians.
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Where did you borrow the bugler from?
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:55pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Mike
        “Where did you borrow the bugler from?”
        
        It’s Mrs MMA. It is true that she finds it hard to get out of my bed that early – she doesn’t have the stamina she used to, but the desire is still there! I think she has an inadequate home life. But nonetheless, I just tell her to go and do her bit for the old diggers. She’s a good lady, your wife.
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:32pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  In order to save lives and to protect the elderly, after considering all data and taking expert advice from kindy kids, the cabinet has decided to extend the Level 4 Covid alert level by another six months. I have discussed this with the Leader of the Opposition who has also agreed that this is the right decision – Jacind Ardern, Dictator, Banana Republic of Aotearoa New Zealand.
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:48am
- Durden
  
  I thought “Intaxication” was what Labour and other stripes of leftist governments felt when then believe tax and spend other peoples’ money.
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:21pm
- mark15
  
  ‘Givernment’
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:49pm
PhilBest

Important, simple, COVID-19 information of the day:
https://coronavirus.medium.com/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-6a6d436abccf
It is a classic tragedy of ignorance and misinformation that many Kiwis assume “Jacinda’s lockdown saved us from an exponential explosion in deaths like they had in Northern Italy”.
The simple reality is, that given the known period of gestation of the disease, from infection to symptoms, and symptoms to death if it occurs, the level of deaths “3 weeks into lockdown” is pretty much “what we would have had anyway”.
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April 17, 2020 8:00am
- MT_Tinman
  
  I suggest to you that three weeks into house arrest the number of deaths caused by Covid-19 is higher than it would be had the house arrest not occurred.
  
  Of course, I’m counting those who have died because of the house arrest as well as those who have died with the virus.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:16am
  - G152
    
    And watch how the ’emergency’ stretches into 5 weeks
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:29am
    - GT Build
      
      No it will be 6 she said yesterday that they working in 2 week blocks
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:38am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    They are actually saving more lives due to the absence of road deaths than they are saving from the virus.
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:46am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      The Greens will be happy.
      Wasn’t zero road deaths, one of their targets?
      Didn’t realize they would turn us into a 3rd world country.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:12am
    - G152
      
      30 people died yesterday from old age , injuries and ailments…
      How many (none) from the virus yesterday
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:17am
  - PhilBest
    
    You’re certainly right! We just aren’t being told what those deaths are, are we?
    
    Dementia Unit patients in rest homes are likely to die of the frenzy they go into over the restrictions associated with COVID-19. I don’t envy the staff having to cope with this. I wonder if there have been deaths of these people without them actually getting the virus?
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:54am
    - coge
      
      I can confirm a well-loved elderly chap in Kapiti, died as a direct result of these circumstances you state. Of course these types of deaths won’t be included in the official 1pm briefings. Sadly, I’m of the view once the lockdown is lifted from level three, some fairly shocking events will come to light.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:21am
  - Ruawai
    
    But JA has saved a lot of lives from road death, JAG must be pleased she is getting to her road death targets.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:04am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Yep, prior to Easter the road toll during the lock down was to date 8 deaths. Given the roads are near empty, you have to ask were these candidates for a Darwin award or some other explanation and we should all be grateful these people didn’t take out others.
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:50am
- Simon
  
  Yep its level 3.5 mass hysteria.
  
  The facade has to continue. The economic wreckage has to explained away that Ardern has saved NZ from the Black Death. Thats the message.
  
  In this fight against the Black Death you either with us or against us.
  
  It’s hysteria upon hysteria.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:18am
  - JerJer
    
    Jacinda is like a small child playing with matches in the hallway of your house. You tell her and tell her and tell her that matches are dangerous (close the border like everyone was telling her for weeks). She ignores everyone, matches are safe, and it says so on the box, ‘see, safety matches’. If risk of a fire is low she says, and if there is one, I will contain it.
    
    Suddenly, the house catches fire, it quickley burns down, some of your elderly family living upstairs die, they cannot escape.
    
    The fire is deliberately lit of course, Jacinda did it. No insurance.
    
    But, but, but, don’t worry, Jacinda is a leader, a real leader, she finds you a lovely run down flat on the other side of town, which, you have to pay rent for, but you have also lost your job, and you still owe that 500,000 mortgage, and you no longer have a house.
    
    This is what Jacinda saving you looks like.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:45am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “This is what Jacinda saving you looks like.”
      
      It is also what any communist / totalitarian “saving” looks like.
      
      They offer:
      A new world
      Equality
      Fairness
      Redistribution of Wealth
      Indigenous Rights
      Equal rights
      Diversity
      
      Hitler saved Germany
      Stalin saved the USSR
      Mao saved China
      Polpot saved Cambodia
      Gaddafi saved Libya
      
      In the last century 200 Million people died at the hands of their own government because the government was “saving” them.
      
      A good government is one that tirelessly works to reduce state intervention, and reduce year by year the largess of government, paring back year after year the % of GDP the government takes, thus reducing taxes.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:47am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        A good government does quite a range of things…
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:47am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        No mike, a good govt. clears the way for us to do it.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Good luck providing your police force, military, courts, and other essential services than can only be funded and controlled collectively.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:57pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I wonder how they magiced up
        Police
        Schools
        Roads
        etc
        BEFORE PAYE was introduced by a LABOUR govt. in 1958.
        
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        April 17, 2020 4:27pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mikenmildagain
        
        Government are hired hands to protect:
        Life, Liberty and Property
        They should have no more rights than the individual(s) that hired them.
        They should operate according to the laws the individual(s) created when they hired them.
        
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        April 17, 2020 4:46pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Simon, yes, but as Matthew Hooton pointed out on Tues on RNZ, if Level 4 does not eradicate COVID-19 from NZ, Javinda is toast.
    
    Labour have painted her re-election campaign around her management in this fiasco, and the 2 things that will undo her:
    1. Putting NZ through this pain & not eradicating COVID-19; and
    2. In the immortal words of Bill Clinton, “it’s the economy stupid”. An economy tanking, mass unemployment, and business failures.
    
    As Hooton pointed out on Tuesday, an economy tanking and unemployment in excess of 11.4% (rate in 1990 recession) leads to significant mental health issues and suicides.
    
    So, all JA’s credibility in managing the COVID-19 crisis will disappear, if she continues the hardship of the lockdown, fails to eliminate the virus from NZ and NZ ends up with an economy flushed down the toilet.
    
    So, let’s wait for the hysteria at the ballot box, shall we?
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:01am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      From where we are now Taiwan took about 3 weeks to hit zero cases, without a comprehensive lock-down. If govt can organise more capable contact tracing + mandatory masks for all then we should be able to get there in level 2-3, especially if we tune response on a regional basis.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:21am
      - JackRabbit
        
        This government could not organise a piss up in a brewery, or a staff shout in a Fish and Chip shop.
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:48am
    - projectman
      
      The key objective stated (p2) in the “New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan: A framework for action” is (quote) “To minimise deaths, serious illness and serious disruption to communities and the economy arising from an influenza pandemic”.
      
      How are we doing on minimising economic disruption?
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:16am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        The marks:
        
        To minimise deaths – C- regarding specific Covid-19 related deaths maybe, but by keeping borders open too long and lagging way behind on quarantine, more Covid deaths than necessary.
        
        Also: Fail re deaths overall, as increased deaths from suicide, dementia problems, hospital cancellations for elective surgery and essential examinations.
        
        Minimise ‘serious illness’ – Fail overall: mental health, domestic violence, dementia problems, hospital cancellations for elective surgery and important examinations.
        
        Minimise ‘serious disruption to communities’ – Fail. Total fail because of huge unemployment outcome and the wave of misery and crime we can expect from this.
        
        Minimise serious disruption to ‘the economy arising from an influenza pandemic” – Fail. Total fail because of destroyed businesses and there will be a huge unemployment outcome.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:42pm
    - Lee C
      
      The current administration is blinded by its own belief in the power of optics.
      
      The National Party formulated a Pandemic response when it was in power last, I believe. But Ardern and her team disregarded it. Why?
      
      The optics of using a National Party idea would reflect badly?
      
      The down was delayed until the 13th March. Why?
      
      Because the optics of al those lovely shots in a hajib would have made such good footage for the election campaign. until…
      
      The optics of deaths resulting from the commemoration would look really really bad.
      
      The borders were closed two weeks two late. Why? Because the optics-machine took precedence over actual planning and execution.
      
      Airports closed late in the day Why? Because the optics of having Bridges claim credit for an initiative – too damaging.
      
      Ministers’ pay cut 20% – eventually – Why? Because the optics of having an idea from James Shaw trump the attention-seeking – too dangerous to the cause.
      
      Fortunately for Ardern, a salivating press have managed to maintain her status as the ‘people’s princess’ – while teh economy is taking a sucker-punch. Why?
      
      Because the optics are more valuable to the ’cause’ than everyday people’s livelihoods.
      
      All this from someone who ‘got into politics’ to eradicate child-hood poverty and mental illness.
      
      Why?
      
      because those noble causes are good optics…?
      
      Once this little pile of jenga topples, and thesuicides, the domestic violence, the unemployment, the crime, the abuse, the plummeting sense of well-being kick in it will be one thing only
      
      f**ng ugly.
      
      But that’s ok, because by then, the former President of the Youth Socialist Movement will be sitting pretty in a nice job at the UN and back on the cover of Time Magazine as the saviour of humanity.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:33am
      - hilaryt
        
        Great summation. This ‘Woman’s Weekly’ style of hers is not only reflected back to her by the fanbase & the media but postitively militated for. Less adoring views & opinions get short shrift and ‘kind’ goes south, I find. The mush is too much.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:49pm
      - cmm
        
        Ministers’ pay cut is only really 10% when annualised.
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:04pm
- cmm
  
  The biggest reason we’re not like Northern Italy is because we’re not like Northern Italy.
  
  We live in houses, not apartments
  We have clean air, not the most polluted air in Europe.
  We smoke less.
  We’re younger.
  They are massive users of public transport. That’s a perfect way to transmit a virus like this.
  They have massive numbers of migrant workers form China.
  They got hammered in flu season, our flu season is yet to come.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:22am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Try this for ‘simple reality’ from an expert not a wannabe:
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/no-matter-how-you-crunch-the-numbers-this-pandemic-is-only-just-getting-started/ar-BB12IApJ?ocid=spartandhp
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:38am
  - emmess
    
    In countries such as Italy (unlike Wuhan) the initial surge in the Covid-19 pandemic has not evaporated quickly
    
    No real experts would make a statement that naive, only paid off WHO Chinese running dogs.
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:53am
    - Batman
      
      You can’t just dismiss any information you don’t like by using the conspiracy claim that everyone at the WHO is a paid lackey for China.
      
      Fucking ridiculous logic.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:21am
      - emmess
        
        Actually, no I think there are plenty of lackeys of the CCP who are happy to do it for free, and just some people to stupid to realise that they are being played.
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:30am
      - kowtow
        
        What’s fucking ridiculous is the UN’s stand on Republic of China , the one country that was onto the Wuflu early.
        
        “In the segment, Ms Tong asks if the WHO would reconsider letting Taiwan join the organisation. She is met with a long silence from Mr Aylward, who then says he cannot hear her and asks to move on to another question.
        
        Ms Tong presses him again, saying she would like to talk about Taiwan. At this point, Mr Aylward appears to hang up on her.
        
        When the journalist calls Mr Aylward again, she asks if he could comment on Taiwan’s response to the coronavirus.
        
        Mr Aylward then replies: “Well, we’ve already talked about China.”
        
        His last line appeared to mirror China’s stance on Taiwan, which is that the island is a breakaway province. Taiwan, however, considers itself an independent country.”
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52088167
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:53am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Most international organisations will not admit Taiwan to membership, as having buy-in from the Chinese commies is strategically more important.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        By that argument, Milky, strategic buy-in from the United States – and thus Trump – is more important still.
        
        Western media meanwhile have a cone of silence over Taiwan and its performance in fighting Covid-19.
        
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        April 17, 2020 4:06pm
      - cmm
        
        WHO appointed Robert Mugabe as a “Goodwill Ambassador” in 2017.
        
        A goodwill ambassador is basically a celebrity endorsement.
        
        May I submit that any organisation that needs a celebrity endorsement from Robert Mugabe is, well, words fail me!
        
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        April 17, 2020 7:19pm
      - cmm
        
        Jack5: They just want USA’s koha. That is all.
        
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        April 17, 2020 7:21pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Any report from MSM is from an activist not an independent.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:04am
  - cmm
    
    Interesting, but again a bunch of facts mixed in with assumptions. Everyone is making some assumptions, but some are more reasonable than others.
    
    The basic assumption of this article is that even with asymptomatic infections, only 1M of the UK’s 66M-odd population have been infected and are now immune (assuming infections immunity).
    
    Therefore 1 in 66 has been through the process so we can say the the other 65 have to go through the process and worst is still to come: multiply everything by 66 to see what the final result will be.
    
    Take UK’s 10,000 deaths and multiply by 66: 660k deaths etc.
    
    This of course makes the massive assumption that everyone in the population is going to react the same. That is clearly not true. The frail are more prone to succumbing earlier in the pandemic, therefore those that are left are likely to be more robust.
    
    It also does not follow the general trajectory of any of these virus outbreaks. The virus almost always runs for a while, then just seems to go dormant for whatever reason.
    
    Look at the Ebola outbreaks in West Africa. All the hype aside, in the 2019 outbreak Ebola killed less than 1500 people then just went dormant (that’s less than the road deaths in the region that year). It is no doubt still there waiting to kick off again.
    
    Like SARS, bird flu, swine flu, black plague, etc etc this is just going to end up being one of the diseases we end up living alongside.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:27am
- krazykiwi
  
  The penny seems to be dropping in the UK. It’s thought that half of last week’s deaths are due to the lockdown:
  
  England and Wales have experienced a record number of deaths in a single week, with 6,000 more than average for this time of year.
  Only half of those extra numbers were attributed to the coronavirus. Experts said they were shocked by the rise, particularly in non-Covid-19 deaths, and expressed concern that the lockdown might be having unintended consequences for people’s health.
  
  There are fears that patients are not seeking help for life-threatening conditions, including heart attacks, because they are worried about catching coronavirus in hospital.
  
  Experts said that conditions such as diabetes or high blood pressure may also be proving harder to manage during the lockdown.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:52am
  - cmm
    
    We have not saved lives. We’ve just traded some lives for other lives.
    
    The lack of treatment during this period is going to have some immediate consequences, but it is going to leave a long tail.
    
    Many issues such as cancers, diabetes or heart conditions can easily cause damage that will only have full impact 5 or 10 years from now.
    
    Someone that might have dies in 2030 at age 80 might now die in 2028 aged 78.
    
    I deliberately use “might” because it will be hard to link individual cases to the lack of medical services during this period.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:49am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The near term (ie 6-12 month) condition I’m anticipating and tracking is deaths moving above the 5 year average then being replaced by deaths moving below the 5 year average. The general hypothesis is that Covid-19 is hastening the deaths of those who otherwise had a short (months) expected lifespan.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  Phil, I suspect you know about this site: Researched and referenced facts about Covid-19 by a Swiss doctor .
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:36am
  - PhilBest
    
    No I didn’t know about that site, thanks heaps for that, it is the best of it’s kind that I’ve seen so far.
    
    The people downticking you cannot be anything other than crypto-totalitarians whose wet dream is a Police State on any pretext.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:57am
- lastmanstanding
  
  History shows that eventually the truth dawns on the sheeple and they realise they have been lied to and conned.
  They then learn that rather than manage the inital situation using good risk management techniques they were victims of a rushed panic knee jerk response.
  The economic reality then hits home with job losses increased suicides increased deaths due to people not being able to access hospital beds for other illness ( already evident in the UK stats).
  
  And finally they turn on the Government of the day when they realise the emergency legislation and regulation has not been repealed “in case it is needed again”.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:15am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Sorry, I can’t recall our history showing anything of the sort.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:20am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Hey, it’s World Malbec Day and World Hemophilia Day!
I’d make a joke about this conjunction, but I don’t want to risk disapproval.
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April 17, 2020 8:01am
- Harriet
  
  You’re gunna get anyway — milkgrate! 😎
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:14am
- JamesP
  
  Transubstantiation is the miracle of turning wine into blood. However, a more worthwhile miracle would be if the original poster ceasing his vapid posting.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Good one! Look out for tomorrow’s important holiday!
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:19am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      From you perhaps?
      
      8 3
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      April 17, 2020 10:45am
      - Batman
        
        Oh come on, Mike’s holiday posts are a bit of harmless fun.
        
        If anything, watching the triggered reactions from some of you is a bonus haha
        
        5 15
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        April 17, 2020 11:24am
- Ed Snack
  
  Thanks for the notice, I’ll make sure to open a bottle with at least some Malbec in the mix for tonight, though I have one open that I think does.
  
  Martinborough mini-producer now sadly defunct Benfield and Delamare , a 2008 bottle of the Bordeaux style red They used to produce. They went out of business about 2010 or so, and sold off their remaining stocks including library bottles, so I picked up (I think) 36 bottles of 3 of every year between 1998 and 2008. This is sadly the last, still going strong after 12 years in the bottle, but time to drink before it went over the hill.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:26am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sounds divine.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:49am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Perhaps a tad past it’s very best, but very dark and inky in colour. It has thrown a serious amount of “crust” on the bottle as they used minimal filtration techniques. Rather austere and dry.
      
      I suspect that the last dregs will not be worth pouring unless I can decant carefully.
      
      Good, but not a patch on what I consider to be NZ’s very best red – the Esk Valley “Terraces”, but then, less than 25% of the price of the same.
      
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      April 17, 2020 1:21pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m afraid that I have very plain tastes, and a less than discerning palate, so cannot really appreciate the benefit people such as you get from superior wines. OTOH, I can get by on a case of cheaper plonk quite happily. Cheers!
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:01pm
MT_Tinman

April 16, 2020, the dictatorship announce the continued vandalism of the New Zealand economy.

They didn’t put it that way but that is what “level 3” is according to the dictatorship.

Notably “level 3” was no such thing when we went through it prior to house arrest.

I am dismayed, not just to see the lack of objection from those elected to represent us but to also not see the demand that Parliament resume immediately and ALL measures henceforth be put to parliament before introduction.

That immediate resumption should see not just HM Opposition but the very few sane people in NZF who understand they will be unemployed if there is ever an election in New Zealand, demanding the dictatorship be put on trial for the wanton destruction of the New Zealand economy.

The first trial would involve the thing who took orders from the Pom Labour Party about and before the continued efforts, started after March 15, 2019, to destroy freedom and wealth in New Zealand.

Our elected representatives should make very clear that we want to import overseas-style police state conditions even less than we wanted to import the virus.
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April 17, 2020 8:02am
- Scott
  
  I’m not so sure Tinman? Basically the information we get from 99% of the media is fully supportive of the prime minister. Basically lefties like to fall in love with their liberal leaders and our media is swooning.
  So according to the news she is doing everything right and is marvellous.
  I actually think the average NZer values safety more than freedom. People in NZ are very secular and see nothing beyond staying alive as long as possible.
  So I’m not hopeful but I’d love to be proved wrong.
  Maybe we could rise up and demand our freedom. Damn the torpedoes!
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:45am
Poppa

Here we are folks, we are going down to level 4 in drag next week

I predicted a huge push back coming which Cindy is not counting on & I have a feeling I am going to be proved correct

I can see the average kiwi, who has been basically happy to comply so far, deciding to take back their freedom
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April 17, 2020 8:04am
- Stephen Russell
  
  On Wednesday I bought a nice bottle of bubbly – Cloudy Bay’s Pelorus Rose – anticipating its opening next week to celebrate the step down to Level 3. Now it appears there will be very little to celebrate. The bottle will remain unopened for some time yet I fear.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:48am
  - Inandout
    
    Stephen, just ignore it and do a Hone. Apparently the cars on the road are increasing by the day and the ‘Snitch Line’ is running hot, except there is no one available to follow up every reporting.
    
    25 2
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    April 17, 2020 9:49am
- cas
  
  I can’t see the difference between going into the local 4 Square with its 5 customers only in the store at any one time directive and doing the same in another bricks and mortar store like Mitre 10, Bunnings or Paper Plus. Surely if a store can prove safe practices it should be all right.
  
  Now waiting to hear if I can get my broken tooth fixed under Level 3
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:54am
  - JackRabbit
    
    That’s because there is no difference. It is all about selective discrimination. In fact the isles at most hardware stores are twice the width of supermarket isles, so more social distancing, not less.
    
    And the people count is better. Everyone visits the supermarket, from the wealthy to the laziest of welfare types. Only a selected few visit hardware stores. Mostly tradesmen or DIY types, not so much the lazy welfare types.
    
    Now you know why Cindy was restricted to handing out the Fish and Chips. It was the only thing she could get right, and the only thing she could do without trying to change things and prove herself smarter than everyone else.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:58am
  - smttc
    
    James Shaw says 4 Squares shouldn’t be open either.
    
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    April 17, 2020 2:36pm
    - cas
      
      He would say that wouldn’t he!!
      
      3 0
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      April 17, 2020 3:24pm
- alex Masterley
  
  The Teachers arn’t happy being appointed as babysitters to the nation.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:02am
  - Handyman
    
    They should enlist the help of truancy officers who are still on full pay.
    
    28 3
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    April 17, 2020 9:32am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Since 99% of teachers vote Labour, who the hell cares what they think.
    
    49 3
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    April 17, 2020 9:42am
  - lifesgood
    
    Teachers are never happy.
    
    44 3
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    April 17, 2020 9:50am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Simple point. Speaks volumes about their understanding, if they are just realizing that now.
    
    As any family can tell you, one of the best ways to catch colds, bugs and winter flu is via your children being with other children at school. All because selfish people will not take sick leave to look after “their darlings”, meaning schools are no more than babysitting services with a bit of education thrown in for good measure.
    
    And when your child comes home with the flu, they spread the love happily to you and your partner!
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:26am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    How can a Head work to the current H & S legislation where he / she is compelled to provide a safe working environment while filling the schools with non spacial awareness under ten year olds, who think toilets are places where you wet the toilet paper and stick it to the ceiling?
    
    The government is looking for child care and is prepared to expose the teachers to the Wuhoo flu, typical of this caring and transparent regime.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:52am
  - JackRabbit
    
    If it is safe for the most young and vulnerable to go back into the public arena, then it is safe for everyone else. Otherwise Jacinda is using them as bait.
    
    “There are 3000 lions on the loose in NZ. No, says Mz Ardern, its still not safe to go out. Oh hang on a minute. Send out all those under 15.”
    
    Yeah Right!
    
    Perhaps all those under 15 could get 65000 signatures for Mz Ardern to resign!
    
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    April 17, 2020 4:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I am sure there will be an accelerating push back.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes,
    
    I don’t think folks are going to be so tolerant of being in Level 4, especially when it seems so muddled about who is and who isn’t at school… and why some food places will be operating and others won’t… and when some folks are expanding their bubble(s) and others aren’t.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:43am
    - Akarak
      
      I’m still waiting on the rules that apply in order to self isolate on public transport.
      
      14 1
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      April 17, 2020 11:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You can’t self-isolate on public transport. Were you thinking of social distancing, which is a different concept?
        
        1 14
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        April 17, 2020 11:52am
      - Nutta
        
        You’re thinking “self-immolate”, which is the only sensible response to having to use public transport
        
        1 1
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        April 18, 2020 12:03am
Max Howler

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/15/drinking-alcohol-can-make-the-coronavirus-worse-the-who-says-in-recommending-restricting-access.html
I don’t normally promote panic buying, but its only a matter of time before some minder of [Deleted – self mod] Ardern makes an ~~official recommendation~~ reads it aloud, and then its all over 🙁
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April 17, 2020 8:09am
- fernglas
  
  I have no doubt that in the right circumstances, drinking alcohol can make the virus better, particularly if you don’t have it.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    My Grandfather once told me there was only one way to beat the flu and that was to drown it. Geez, he went through a shit load of single malt whiskey. I never heard him complain of the flu though.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:18am
Harriet

She’s in her own bubble and doesn’t understand the issues ——— it’s time to put Pauline Hanson back in charge of the fish and chip shop! 😎
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April 17, 2020 8:10am
- igm
  
  Pauline owned and operated her own business, Ardern has only worked in one, in a very minor role.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:23am
  - tf78
    
    I presume in the same way she “advised Tony Blair”. Pauline would eat her for breakfast.
    
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    April 17, 2020 8:35am
    - igm
      
      It would be no contest . . . one is principled the other is unprincipled and only ever lived out of others’ pockets!
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:03am
    - Inandout
      
      tf78, ah the ‘missing years’ in Tony Blair’s office. Shhh.
      
      17 2
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      April 17, 2020 9:52am
      - Tall Man
        
        Who she never met………..
        
        16 2
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        April 17, 2020 10:02am
  - barnacle bill
    
    During her holidays from University, igm
    If you went to Uni, you would know full well that you took whatever holiday work you could find.
    
    Just as Jacinda did.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:01am
    - Inandout
      
      [Deleted – Mod.]
      
      4 3
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      April 17, 2020 9:54am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “…in a very minor role.”
    
    Jacinda needs to learn how the real world works, and get her hands dirty. Perhaps she could join Little and Peters in a miner role at Pike River. There’s no risk of Covid-19 down there.
    
    After all we need to get something back for our $50 million.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:02am
    - barnacle bill
      
      Poor
      Old Jack. I doubt you ever see a positive in any situation.
      
      Just another typical old Grizzle Guts.
      
      1 13
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      April 17, 2020 12:09pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Actually I see positive in everything.
        
        Messers Little, Peters, and Ardern gaining some self awareness is a positive. The world would be a better place if they gained some self awareness.
        
        Do you think that they should continue being unaware, and become less aware as time goes on?
        
        Anyone that wishes other people to have less awareness, or to become less aware is an extremely negative person.
        
        I suggest that it is you that is negative. Take a good look at your attitude.
        
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        April 17, 2020 5:00pm
- MT_Tinman
  
  Why would you want to destroy yet another small business?
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:33am
  - Ruahine
    
    I suspect that Ardern hated working in the fish and chip shop. That is why she wants to destroy small business. Now is her big chance.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:45am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I suspect a lot of things too.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:53am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I think Jacinda said at one stage she worked in a supermarket too (check outs I think) when she was talking about essential workers.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:39am
  - yomcat
    
    IIRC, she never actually said she worked in a supermarket, just that she had run a till (or something like that) before. The implication was that she worked in a supermarket, not the actual statement…
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:23am
UrbanNeocolonialist

Had to call health line yesterday over a small cut I thought might need stitches, was trying to describe it over the phone to the nurse and asked if we could just switch to video or if I could email her a picture. “Oh no, we don’t have any of that technology” True WTF moment. Just unbelievably backwards when most of the population has had it for 5-20 years, and when it would greatly improve their ability to assess problems.
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April 17, 2020 8:12am
- Ruawai
  
  I hope you weren’t taking up a new hobbie when you cut your hand, Jacinda will get mad and take away our privileges if she finds out.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:16am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    My GP has a similar issue when he tries to send his pictures of my skin issues to the plastics unit. Their technology is so outdated that he has to go through a laborious process of reducing the file size of the pictures to fit their primitive system.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:26am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And the eye department’s machine for measuring cataracts dates back to the 1920s.
      
      21 2
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      April 17, 2020 9:27am
      - Sacha
        
        My optician has a machine to test cataracts. She is determined that I will need an op every 2 yearly visit, (only 20 minutes for one eye, $6000 thanks) but the machine is not co-operating.
        
        11 1
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        April 17, 2020 10:53am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Are you claiming that our health infrastructure has been neglected?
      
      4 29
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      April 17, 2020 10:22am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Yep, 30 months of negligence once the CCP (Clown Car Pardy) cleaned the shit off the walls.
        
        When is the ribbon cutting for the new Dunedin hospital?
        
        23 3
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        April 17, 2020 10:56am
      - Batman
        
        By the stupid DHB system which can’t manage it’s way out of a paper bag.
        
        And the future decline thanks to the government removing public accountability targets.
        
        15 2
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        April 17, 2020 11:29am
    - Belinda
      
      I tried to make an appt to see my doctor for some skin spots that I’m worried about.
      She is going to do a telephone consultation with me.
      
      2 0
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      April 17, 2020 9:22pm
Komata

MT@0802

Re: ‘Our elected representatives should make very clear that we want to import overseas-style police state conditions even less than we wanted to import the virus’.

But if the Leader of HM’s loyal Opposition agrees with everything that is going on (as Simon apparently does), then what chance have you got?
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April 17, 2020 8:16am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  True. As is usual for the most important things, there is a broad consensus from our political parties on what to do.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Like you, some of us work at more than one level. This COL has badly damaged NZ through its ideological expression. Some past French rulers paid the ultimate price for similar.
    The long march awaits Cinderella, her Winestone, the incompetent melons, and their combined enforcers.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:14am
- MT_Tinman
  
  I don’t know what Bridges wants because, despite me being on his e-mail list, he hasn’t said anything I’ve read or heard about getting Parliament back sitting.
  
  Personally I believe this is the most important thing the country needs.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:37am
  - Ruawai
    
    Agree but she will be delaying this as long as possible to keep ultimate power.
    
    31 4
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    April 17, 2020 9:19am
  - Tall Man
    
    “This week marks an important step in our constructive and principled approach to scrutinising the Government’s response to Covid-19.
    
    I believe the health and safety of our people is paramount, but Kiwis rightly have many questions about how decisions made on their behalf affect them, their families, and their communities.
    
    Last week, an Epidemic Response Committee (ERC) was created by Parliament to provide the opportunity to question officials on the issues that matter to you.
    
    As the Chairman of that Committee, I want to ensure our scrutiny provides clear answers and reassurance for you, and ultimately helps to make our collective nationwide response to Covid-19 a better one and a stronger one.
    
    The ERC will be meeting online every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday from 10am to 12:30pm. Our first meeting will focus on our nation’s health response by hearing from the Minister of Health, Director-General of Health and others.
    
    You can watch the Committee’s meeting live on my Facebook page here
    
    You can also watch it live on Parliament TV on Freeview Channel 31 or Sky Channel 86.
    
    I want to keep Kiwis as informed and up to date as possible on everything Government agencies are doing to keep us safe now, and ultimately how we can bring our country out of this epidemic on a strong foundation for the future.
    
    If you have any questions you want answers to, please email me at [email protected]
    
    We are all in this together.
    
    Regards
    
    Simon
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    With the media party being so Cindy starry The NAts have to work underground a bit. Join the party to help the action.
    
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    April 17, 2020 1:47pm
Luke Piewalker

How sad it must be for Cindy….all she has to turn to is Davis,Twyford,Clark,Lees-Galloway, Sepuloni,Woods…

…. and this lot want you to vote for them to make NZ a better place

Yes Cindy you and your lot are that useless
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April 17, 2020 8:19am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Cindy is a good (well liked by public) front person but with no real life or business experience. if she was a good leader she would have surrounded herself with smart people. As you have listed above, she has surrounded herself with fools so basically our economy is on a roller coaster ride and we cannot get off even though we know up ahead the track is broken!
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:43am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Cindy doesn’t have the capacity to pick or work with non-fools. She could tell an elf from an elephant except in kindy.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:17am
  - JamesP
    
    Cindy is proof anything will float if the surrounding material is dense enough.
    
    11 1
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    April 17, 2020 11:19am
Maggie Pie

So, someone who couldn’t even keep a virus off my computer, is going to keep the Whole World physically safe from a virus? LOL!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVpiXpkUUAQ_LS9?format=jpg&name=small
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April 17, 2020 8:19am
- MrTips
  
  Careful Maggie, he will order your escape Windows slammed shut…
  
  24 1
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  April 17, 2020 8:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Windows is not the only operating system.
    
    8 4
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    April 17, 2020 9:18am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Even truth gets down ticked–this is not coming from a Windows machine.
      
      1 1
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      April 17, 2020 1:48pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  He’s done a damn fine job, in partnership with Rotary, in vaccinating for polio, and we have all but eliminated the disease.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:54am
  - rererangihirihiri
    
    Polio is rampant in PNG.
    Was obliterated there nearly 20 years ago.
    
    11 5
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    April 17, 2020 9:37am
    - Inandout
      
      [Deleted – Mod.]
      
      2 2
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      April 17, 2020 9:56am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/government-corruption/gates-globalist-vaccine-agenda-a-win-win-for-pharma-and-mandatory-vaccination/
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:13pm
- rangitoto
  
  I recommend Fedora or Ubuntu.
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:41pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    PCLinuxOS or Mint are very friendly. This is on MX-19 with some windows programs running under Wine. The Win 7 in VirtualBox is having a hard time and may have had its internet connection terminated by Microsoft.
    
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    April 17, 2020 1:53pm
MrTips

Singapore, we keep hearing how well they’ve done on managing COVID-19.

Nope.

Look at the data .

They have had a continual slow creep, which was managed until about April 3, which is now exploding due to their mismanagement of the migrant worker population. Changi will be out of action for a long, long time as a transport hub.

In other news, it appears 33% of docs are actually using chloroquine/azithryomycin to treat COVID-19, as reported in another French observational study that treated 80 patients, 97.5% of which were released from infectious disease care within 5 days. To quote:

“According to an online survey conducted at the end of March, 33% of an international panel of physicians reported personally prescribing (or seeing colleagues prescribe) hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine), and 41% reported the same for azithromycin (or similar antibiotics) to fight COVID-19. In addition, of those who have treated COVID-19 patients, 37% believe that hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) is the most effective therapy against the disease, and 32% believe the same for azithromycin (or similar antibiotics).”
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April 17, 2020 8:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Singapore population 5.8M and leading world airflight hub has had 10 deaths due to Covid -19.
  
  We, with a population of 4.8M, and located at the end of any destination have had 9 deaths attributed to covid-19.
  
  Yep, Singapore is experiencing a small surge in infections, but I suspect they will soon be on top of the latest outbreak.
  
  Changi2 is closing May 1, because international airtravel has dried up.
  https://www.changiairport.com/corporate/media-centre/newsroom/suspension-of-T2-operations.html#?tid=relocation
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:03am
  - MrTips
    
    Agree, but I have numerous colleagues in Sg who are bricking themselves that its more than a temporary surge. 300,00 migrant workers from Bangladesh, India, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand. All housed in petri dish barracks.
    
    Sg has just gone into lockdown and they won’t let it go Italian style. But its a salutary lesson for us to NOT let the damn thing back in.
    
    21 1
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    April 17, 2020 9:31am
    - PhilBest
      
      What we are seeing is the unavoidable “urban density” effect, that even the most efficient tracing and quarantining strategy cannot overcome. These place have extremely efficient tracing and quarantining and public hygiene because they’d ALL be dead if they didn’t. What’s the punishment in SG for spitting?
      But this virus is their biggest challenge yet.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:03am
      - kowtow
        
        Crowded migrant dormitories.
        
        7 0
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        April 17, 2020 11:59am
mjw

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Kiwiblog commentators continue their magical thinking and anti-science. Well guess what, wanting doesn’t make it so. Here are the coronavirus Death Rates per million, 8:15 am today.

New Zealand – 2
USA – 104
Sweden – 132
Netherlands – 193
UK – 202
France – 275
Italy – 367
Spain – 409
Belgium – 419

Deal with the facts please, and stop peddling nonsense.
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April 17, 2020 8:20am
- amospicton
  
  Yes, but that’s despite the govt not because of it. Besides, it’s a meaningless statistic without measuring the cost of getting there. A bit like getting 85% in communications but failing everything else because of a total focus on communications.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:43am
  - mjw
    
    So, at least we can agree that New Zealand is doing way way better than most other places.
    
    10 36
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    April 17, 2020 8:53am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Still early days mjw….
      
      We’ve got winter to get through… and the probability that the virus will always be somewhere in our population.
      
      39 4
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      April 17, 2020 9:15am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Always the pessimist.
        
        5 42
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        April 17, 2020 9:32am
      - tf78
        
        Maggy, you’d have to fact check perhaps, but I believe that the normal winter flu we have annually originated from the Spanish Flu, so that’s 100 years old.
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:09am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Martin Williams
        Always the pessimist..
        
        Whatever makes you think that?
        https://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=3dq-are-you-an-optimist-pessimist-or-realist-quiz
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:53am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @tf78
        Maggy, you’d have to fact check perhaps, but I believe that the normal winter flu we have annually originated from the Spanish Flu, so that’s 100 years old.
        
        That’s not my understanding…
        There are lots of different types of Influenza A viruses – H1N1.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1
        
        The one that caused the 1918 pandemic consisted of 8 genes… and early this century, quite a lot of work went into reconstructing it….
        
        https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html
        It looks like it was just another avian virus that possessed a deadly combination of factors.
        
        There’s no evidence as far as I can tell that it mutated/shifted into a milder form.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1
        
        https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/1918flupandemic.htm
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:39am
    - cmm
      
      mjw: On the face of it we’re going Ok at the moment mainly for various reasons which I mention above.
      
      Let us wait until the end of flu season before we get too excited though.
      
      Let us also consider the hidden deaths that are being caused by shutting down services at hospitals etc.
      
      Let us also not completely trash our economy and the futures of all the people who will have to pay back the massive debt.
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:38am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      In a single metric, maybe… In time we may not look so good on many metrics, like unemployment & suicide for example.
      
      19 3
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      April 17, 2020 9:43am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Australian unemployment was .1% increase in March what was NZ?
        Talking about Australia peaking at 10%.
        Unfortunately this isn’t just about Covid19 deaths, you can only spend like there is no tomorrow for a limited time. The day of reckoning is fast approaching.
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Our low death rate will still be a low death rate if Jacinda had dictated that each of us hop on one foot for 5 minutes every day, rather than dictating that we go into lockdown.
      
      The primary difference is that hopping on one foot wouldn’t have cost us hundreds of billions of dollar damage, nor would it have increased misery and hardship, nor would it have shortened the average lives of NZers by 0.4 years.
      
      Jacinda isn’t the saviour here. She is wholly and completely responsible for this carnage.
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:47am
      - mjw
        
        Did you not see the death rate for Sweden?
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:13am
      - quarterpack
        
        Give or take NZ Government response is pretty much in line with modern world countries, and you can bet a similar response would have taken place who ever was in power. (Nats or Labour) Most of the financial rack and ruin is inevitable due to the downturn in international economies, and the current lock down has merely hastened the inevitable. Stop trying to personalize this thing and degrade the debate into a boring and slightly creepy Jacinda hate page
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:37am
      - krazykiwi
        
        @quarterpack, the Nats could well have slavishly and stupidly followed other countries. If they were in power I’d still be criticising the PM, although it would be lost in the noise as the partisan, hate-the-right media would be applying relentless criticism for the exact same actions that they are praising today.
        
        But the Nats are not in power, so the PM is due all opprobrium that is coming her way. You’ll just have to deal with that.
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:48am
    - calendar girl
      
      And, mjw, New Zealand should be doing better than most other places.
      
      This country has the great advantage of being an island nation, serious distances away from its nearest neighbours, and with 100% ocean borders rather than any land borders.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:08am
      - backster
        
        Most of our deaths and admissions seem due to Jacinda’s wellbeing policy of no quarantine but… a promise on their honour to self isolate by incoming virus carriers.,,,Interesting in the States that 20 million un-employed except for South Dakota which continued as normal in full production and employment.
        
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        April 17, 2020 3:09pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @backster
        
        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/south-dakota-gov-noem-who-opposed-stay-home-order-now-n1184851
        
        continued as normal in full production and employment.
        
        Not really.
        
        500 positives at the big 3700 employee meat works. State population only 900,000. 6 deaths so far.
        
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        April 17, 2020 3:42pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      And so we should, we had an almost unique opportunity to almost entirely exclude the virus and prevent any community spread at all, but blew that by completely inadequate border security and procedures.
      
      Completely different to, say, Italy where the virus was widespread by mid January because of large numbers of Chinese from the Wuhan area travelling to Italy. That in turn lead to significant seeding of the outbreaks through out Europe, and the major focus of the pandemic in the USA is also an offshoot of the Italian experience.
      
      If this government had done just two things, mandatory 14 day quarantine for overseas travellers as soon as they suspected that widespread person to person transmission was possible, and banned cruise ship landings or at least prevented passengers from travelling ashore, then we would have maybe 1 death and 100 cases.
      
      Hindsight though makes it easy, it wasn’t that clear at the time that such measures were necessary though some people were sounding the alarm.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:37am
    - PhilBest
      
      What do you think the stats prove, MJW? What I see is a lucky country with a non-problem, no need to destroy its economy. Deaths to date can’t be “low because of lockdown” because it takes 3 to 8 weeks for people to die after infection. If we were going to have an exponential explosion in mortality like Northern Italy, we’d have been seeing 20 deaths one day, 30 the next, 50 the next, 8o the next, etc etc etc. By now. In spite of the lockdown. The fact this hasn’t happened is BECAUSE IT WASN’T GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY, not “because of lockdown”!!!! FFS, how thick do people have to be???
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:07am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes, some of the apples look like pears. And some of the bananas look like strawberries.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:43am
- Libertarians are right
  
  You missed a few countries.
  Also, there are very well known reasons our death rate is so low. It isn’t because of the Government or the lockdown.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:48am
  - lifesgood
    
    Look at Taiwan, China’s next door neighbour , if you want a success story, and Australia is doing way better than us with many fewer restrictions.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:56am
- JamesP
  
  “Anti-science”
  Nope.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121052665/coronavirus-suicide-ptsd-to-rise-significantly-after-covid19-report-predicts
  
  It’s a trade-off between solving a medical problem vs. the economic and social impact of doing so. With a whole bunch of assumptions and questionable models on both sides. Just because someone has a different risk and / or moral profile to you doesn’t necessarily make them “anti-science”.
  
  The current NZ strategy means we pay a high upfront cost for that low number. Since I can’t change our strategy I just have to hope it works for us. However, there are scenarios (eg. massive recession and no vaccine produced in a reasonable time) which would make our strategy a complete disaster.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:49am
  - cmm
    
    It is not just medical vs economic.
    
    It is also medical vs medical.
    
    Medical procedures are being deferred or cancelled, hospital outpatients (cancer, heart, diabetes, colon & breast screening etc) have cancelled all their testing. Dentists are not operating.
    
    Delayed or cancelled testing is going to lead to many thousands of NZ patients having their risk profiles increased and will likely cause shortened lives and reduced quality of life for many of these people.
    
    However, because there is no specific marker (like there is a test for Covid19), the impact on these people will go unnoticed at the individual level, but will likely show up at the statistical level.
    
    That’s the problem dealing with obvious problems, the cure often causes less obvious problems.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:06am
    - tf78
      
      Can you imagine the back log we will have in the operating theatres after this – it was bad enough with the Doctors/Nurses strikes.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:13am
      - cmm
        
        There is no way to clear these backlogs.
        
        The only way they can achieve that is by setting different risk thresholds for tests. Some people who would have had tests before will now not have tests because they will have fallen below the “catch up” risk threshold.
        
        Even still, there will be delay. That means extra harm.
        
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        April 17, 2020 10:56am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      5 years from now there will be statistical bumps as the delayed or denied treatment regime becomes apparent.
      Most of us can put something off but time and cost work together.
      
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      April 17, 2020 2:01pm
      - cmm
        
        I think it will be too spread out to see the bump, but it will be there.
        
        The cardiologist who booked me in for the tests I am no longer having next week did it because he had genuine reasons to do so. He didn’t just fancy my legs.
        
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        April 17, 2020 7:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Hubby’s cancelled outpatient appointment yesterday has been rescheduled for Monday morning.
        
        First time I’ve seen him happy about getting an injection (in the eye).
        
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        April 17, 2020 7:18pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why isn’t Australia in your list?
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Australia – 2
    Singapore -2
    Japan -1
    Taiwan- 0.3
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:11am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      Taiwan is the one country we definitely need to examine to see how they have handled the pandemic. Sweden is another that should also be looked at as an alternative handling for future learnings.
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:34am
      - kowtow
        
        Republic of China was onto it very early .
        
        They are an “unperson” at WHO , on Red China’s command.
        
        ROC and WHO in big ding dong at the moment .
        MSM largely ignoring this.
        
        Must focus on “Orange Man Bad”
        
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        April 17, 2020 9:57am
      - PhilBest
        
        It is to Taiwan’s great benefit that they are inherently, existentially suspicious of the Chicoms – and the WHO and anyone else in the Chicoms pocket.
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:10am
    - lifesgood
      
      They don’t fit his agenda, Maggy.
      
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      April 17, 2020 9:57am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Because it doesn’t flatter the argument he is trying to make.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:29am
- Tricati
  
  You missed Australia, which is the same as ours, yet they have less restrictions.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:52am
- MrTips
  
  And here are the annualised death rates per/M:
  
  New Zealand – 7400
  USA – 8200
  Sweden – 9400
  Netherlands – 8800
  UK – 9400
  France – 9300
  Italy – 10300
  Spain – 9100
  Belgium – 9700
  
  COVID-19 is bad. But context is also good.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:53am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    How on earth do you make this up?
    
    NZ has 2 deaths per million, over a 4 week period.
    
    We are miles below all the other countries in that list. For instance right now the US has over 100 per million, with New York over 500.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:36am
    - MrTips
      
      Wayne. I gave ANNUALISED death rates. did you read that bit? How can you ask about annualised death rate on something only 5 months old?
      
      If you go here: http://world.bymap.org/DeathRate.html
      
      you get annualised death rates per 1000. Multiple by 1000 and you have per/M.
      
      So we have 7400 annual deaths per M, which equates to about 35,000 deaths per year total. which is about right.
      https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/population
      
      So 2 deaths per M from COVID-19 has a long way to go to significantly contribute to the 7400/M we get annually (would need 35,000 deaths which is at the upper end of Michael Bakers modelling and way below Shaun Hendy’s fantastic fantasy pretending). 3,500 NZ deaths in 2020 from COVID-19 would make world headlines (it would be 2x the per M worse than Italy), have us very worried, but would ultimately be only 10% of our annual total deaths. And no, I don’t want that to happen which is why I used the word context.
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:41pm
- Jules99
  
  Interesting to see the USA doing so well compared to other countries. Funny how the media keeps pushing the narrative about how bad they doing.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:09am
  - Wired-one
    
    Its just the usual anti Trump nonsense.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:33am
  - Don Beckett
    
    That’s because ‘Orange man bad’.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:34am
  - cmm
    
    The biggest issue with USA is that each state is really a separate country with different laws etc.
    
    By far the worst are New York and New Jersey (especially greater NYC). This small area and small segment of the population account for about 50% of the deaths in USA.
    
    Like Lombardy in Italy, it is an anomaly. Take NYC and Lombardy out of the picture and both USA and Italian death rates fall dramatically.
    
    NYC and Milan are both very dense living with a huge dependence on public transport. Those make them both very prone to viral infections.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:15am
    - Ed Snack
      
      It has been pointed out that possibly THE major way the virus is (and has) spread in NY is via the subway system. That has not been shutdown and there are no extra special sanitation procedures in place.
      
      A situation almost bound to produce bad outcomes.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:43am
      - cmm
        
        In NYC the black and hispanic populations (over 50% of the whole NYC pop.) have been hit the hardest. They also tend to be the poorest. They tend to live in the most dense housing and make the most use of public transport (buses and subways).
        
        Unlike buses in NZ which tend to be empty most of the time other than rush hour, these buses are packed all the time.
        
        Private car ownership in NYC is low with over 50% of households having no vehicle.
        
        Approx 10 million rides a day on subway and buses in NYC. That means, on average, everyone in NYC uses a bus or subway once a day. Of course it is not homogenous and many people will be taking 2 or 4 rides a day.
        
        So the people most likely to be infected are also most likely to live in dense housing and are most likely to ride on public transport spreading it.
        
        Bloody paradise if you’re a virus!
        
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        April 17, 2020 11:25am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Have the Aus undergrounds been closed?
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:06pm
      - NoCash
        
        Therein lies the biggest difference in lockdown / shelter in place and the effectiveness between NYC and Wuhan.
        
        At the beginning of the Wuhan lockdown, the first thing the govt did was to shutdown all public transport in the city, even before they sealed off Wuhan.
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:14pm
    - Batman
      
      Um, CMM, NY and NJ make up the most populous area of the entire USA. All feeding into the city.
      
      It was always going to get hit hard.
      
      As for the death and infection rates, those stats are little comfort to families who’ve lost people due to an uncoordinated and incompetent federal government response. Just today a pile of 17 bodies were found at a NY rest home after an anonymous tip.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:40am
      - cmm
        
        Of course it is a populous area, but the death rates in NYC are completely out of proportion to population.
        
        NYC metro area has 5% of USA’s population (18M out of approx 360M) yet has 60% of the deaths (15,000 out of 24,000 approx).
        
        The death rate in NYC metro is approx 18x what it is in the rest of USA.
        
        Why is this a federal problem? If it was a federal problem then why is the rest of USA relatively untouched?
        
        This is all on the state. Blame the governor. They have found masses of PPE and even hundreds of ventilators that were “lost” in the state system.
        
        Did Trump go and hide those 17 bodies personally?
        
        Worrying about emotional things like what is comforting to people is irrational and does not help good decision making.
        
        What about the emotional issues of others? What about people like me who have had their hospital outpatients visits cancelled, thus putting me at risk? I suppose I could get emotional about that, but it does not help in decision making.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:01pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        cmm, for Batman, everything is Trump’s fault. He really doesn’t get what a federal system is.
        
        NYC’s problem is undoubtedly worse because when Trump started to introduce measures like the China travel ban the NYC Mayor de Blasio specifically criticised that and urged people to congregate and mix. And that mixing led to additional spread. So it IS Trump’s fault because if he didn’t start taking actions de Blasio would not have felt the need to specifically oppose them in a way to make it worse. I think that is Batman’s working hypothesis.
        
        Trump and his advisors did miss the importance of the European (at the early stages almost specifically Italian) infections, and in fact most East Coast infections lead back to Italy and to a lesser extend to Spain, Germany, and the UK. Restrictions were imposed on them but later than the Chinese ban. That’s one reason why the East Coast is worse than the West. However just about everyone missed just how quickly the Italian epidemic escalated.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:23pm
      - Waymad
        
        We hear zilch from DeBlasio these days. Everything comes from the State Guv’nor, Cuomo… Significant, no?
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:51pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        However just about everyone missed just how quickly the Italian epidemic escalated
        
        Folks had to return from their hols in The Alps or in Venice…
        https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51625733
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:13pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      How about local comparatives? How are Genoa, Turin or Rome doing compared to Milan? Pittsburg, Philadelphia or Baltimore compared to NYC?
      
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      April 17, 2020 6:35pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Those figures are I believe all based on reporting of affected groups not random sampling of the national populations.
  To present the speciality sample as the national population mean is wrong. The cumulative charts make a lovely towering scary pic.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:25am
- Tony Norriss
  
  And if we banned all motor vehicles from the road we would have zero car crashes and zero deaths as a result. So, those figures don’t mean much unless the cost of the action is also factored in.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:29am
- pjay
  
  Seasonal flu stats/deaths seem to have dropped precipitously this year – that should help!
  
  Yeah right!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ROuK62s84
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:49am
- kloyd0306
  
  If we are doing so well, why are we still under house arrest?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:49am
- mjw
  
  And the other point is the forecast. Those who are calling for easing DO NOT examine the 18 month epidemiological forecasts. They make extremely grim reading.
  
  But if you are anti-science, then I guess those numbers don’t matter either. Just experts right, what do they know?
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:15am
  - cmm
    
    mjw: You keep on going on about people that disagree with you being anti-science.
    
    Do you actually realize that many of the people pushing against what you are saying are actually scientists? You know, real ones, not political scientists etc.
    
    As a scientist I am shocked at how science has been abused and is now a tool for activism rather than rational information.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:28am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Forecasts of next year on present data are statistical nonsense.
    
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    April 17, 2020 2:11pm
- hullkiwi
  
  mjw, deal with facts.
  1. Aust about 1 week ahead of NZ, it circa has the same infection rate and death rate. Aust have not closed their economy down entirely.
  
  2. All the European countries have the same issues, which neither NZ or Aust have, being:
  – high densities in urban centres;
  – high density usage on public transport in high density urban areas;
  – high percentage of aged population live in age care homes.
  
  Facts, not fanciful thinking!
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:03am
Paulus Gnome

I think David Bain and Mark Lundy are innocent, one only has to look at the evidence . . .
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April 17, 2020 8:20am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  GFY 🙂 Bain and Lundy in prison “Yeah we can be friends, just don’t treat me like family”
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:31am
- Tall Man
  
  Don’t sneeze while you have that tongue in your cheek……….
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:38am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Nice to see some get it . . .
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:03am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Sometimes you really need to add the /s tag…
      
      3 1
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      April 17, 2020 12:24pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Sad really 🙂
        
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        April 17, 2020 6:47pm
rightoverlabour

Is stuff reporting on the record cold and snow in the USA and Finland?

https://watchers.news/2020/04/15/record-breaking-april-snowfall-finland/

https://watchers.news/2020/04/16/cold-outbreak-smashes-hundreds-of-records-in-u-s-heavy-snow-continues-for-central-region/

https://electroverse.net/incredible-north-america-snow-extent/

Cheers
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April 17, 2020 8:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Should I check NZ media sites for you?
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Don’t bother…
    You won’t find anything there.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:18am
  - Batman
    
    The climate is……. Changing?
    
    Fuck, maybe those paid shill UN scientists are right????
    
    7 3
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    April 17, 2020 11:52am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Ooh, please do. I don’t sully my mind by going to Communist Propaganda Sites…. You’ll save me a heap of mind bleach..
    
    5 2
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    April 17, 2020 1:14pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Global cooling?
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:46am
  - emmess
    
    I bet I am already too late but I am sure somewhere some crazy greenies will be attributing falling temperatures to the global lockdown.
    And therefore demanding that we do it permanently
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:39am
    - tf78
      
      That’s all part of the “Green New Deal”, no planes, cars, jobs etc.
      
      18 2
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      April 17, 2020 10:17am
  - Ruahine
    
    Global Cooling. W can use that next year to cancel Anzac Day Commerations.
    Three in a row Yah.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:11am
- rangitoto
  
  The media trumpeted a warm measurement on an island off the end of the Antarctic peninsula but had nothing to say about the coldest March temperature ever recorded on the actual continent.
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:55pm
I remember when

@ Kev.O’Brien 4.42pm
Worldometers.info Coronavirus Update (Live)
Still shows 56 active/7 serious,criticsl. The Ms Zaandam is also on the Update. Presumably other cruise ships like Ruby Princess and Artania all in Australian totals or perhaps country where they disembarked/returned to afterwards.
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April 17, 2020 8:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thanks.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:27am
Swifty

For those with a bit of spare time today – a good and recent interview with the ever affable Jim Lovell, 92, and one of my favourite astronauts.

He flew twice with Gemini, he crewed Apollo 8, the first mission to leave earth and head to another celestial body; and commanded Apollo 13, the third mission to the moon and which famously suffered an explosion early on with the resultant complex rescue effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCgfawFAGW4
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April 17, 2020 8:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Today is the 50th anniversary of Apollo 13’s splashdown from the aborted lunar mission.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:38am
- tom hunter
  
  Heh – already covered the Apollo 13 anniversary this past Tuesday: It Was Fifty Years Ago Today
  
  Found a really cool link for it as well, courtesy of some NASA nerd with too much time on his hands. 🙂
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:50am
  - Swifty
    
    Cheers Tom.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:50am
Benedict Yu

https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-economics-and-policy-from-the-mailbox/#comments

Ian Harris from Tailrisk economics has recently published a critique of the pandemic response in New Zealand.

Croaking Cassandra blogged on it.

Ian concludes that the pandemic response will kill many more people than it saves.

http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documentlist

This excellent analysis includes an analysis of the historical relationship between GDP and life expectancy in New Zealand, and the impact of (slightly) higher COVID 19 deaths if we had adopted a less aggressive lock down.

Why on earth can’t journalists find stuff like this?

“….shrinking the economy by ten percent would reduce life expectancy by 1.4 years, in order to avert a risk that otherwise would have produced a 0.6 year decline in life expectancy. In other words, this mix of risk and response would take almost one year off the expected life span of everyone in New Zealand. The apparent kindness of doing everything possible to limit deaths due to Covid-19 would, instead, be killing more people by making them poorer.”
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April 17, 2020 8:28am
- amospicton
  
  Yes and it also analyses the inept (or is it corrupt?)modelling upon which the govt seems to have based its decision making. Essentially saying the modellers had an outcome to achieve and lies, damned lies, statistics and excel spreadsheets delivered that outcome. If true it’s a massive scandal.
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s true enough–belief systems have got in the way of objective analysis. Some investigations do require a multi-disciplinary view and such people exist.
    
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    April 17, 2020 2:17pm
- JamesP
  
  An excellent and thought provoking article. The discussion of the connection between life expectancy and GDP and how that might be used to test if economic cost of lockdown was worth paying was fascinating. Thanks for the link.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:34am
I remember when

Is the one person Government missing an opportunity by suggesting we will return to level three. Level 5 would sound like it was in the grand everything under control plan.
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April 17, 2020 8:29am
Yvette

Was Hone Harawira’s bacon and egg breakfast at his sister’s place in Auckland worth the risk, her being a nurse – although media don’t say where, or nursing whom.

The Government expected the cover-19 pandemic to hit Maori hard. What else explains why –
The Government has earmarked more than $56 million to support Māori communities and businesses feeling the economic impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The bulk of that funding, some $30 million, has been made available for targeted health funding for Māori. [1]

Kelvin Davis, pre-Election, expressed the usual mantra on Maori susceptivity to most ill-being –
“Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics produced under National’s watch.” [2]
Under Labour, is anything changed?

And how closely do many Maori (and Pacific people) have extended family arrangements as may be said of intergenerational aspects of Italian, French or Spanish families?
(And, Spain and Italy have higher quality health systems than New Zealand ) [3]

Of a total of 1401 cases, 30 are ‘unknown ethnicity’, 63 are Pacific people, and Maori are 118 [4]
So, of the total cases, Maori are 8.42%
Of the New Zealand population, Maori are 16.5%

So Maori who have the virus are just over half their population share and way below the “usual” statistics for Maori health.

While “Maori have on average the poorest health status of any ethnic group in New Zealand …” this widely accepted social circumstance is not so far reflected in cover-19 cases.

Why? Sheer luck, so far? Even luckier, considering Hone’s effarts.

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12318791
[2] https://www.labour.org.nz/no_mana_for_m_ori
[3] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/govt-s-covid-19-modelling-expert-warns-new-zealand-can-t-afford-to-reach-italy-s-crisis-level.html
[4] figures https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/16/1101216/covid-19-in-nz-the-numbers
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April 17, 2020 8:29am
- Scott
  
  Yvette – since you have mentioned Hone I would like one reporter to ask our Prime Minister at the daily press conference what she is going to do about his unlawful blockade of the northern region?
  
  How is it that he could get away with this?
  
  There seems to be one rule for Maori people and one rule for the rest of us. Why do Maori people need special investments in health to battle this virus? Haven’t we shared this country for almost 200 years?
  
  I just like one rule for everyone. Everyone gets the same access to healthcare. Everyone gets the same treatment by law enforcement. Is that too much to ask?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:23am
  - Ruawai
    
    The police should have shut down this road block on day 1 as not authorised and may not be using health and safety rules for cv19. If not then all one way roads and areas could set up their own road blocks as the police have to treat everyone the same.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:22am
  - Yvette
    
    Scott – Why do Maori people need special investments in health to battle this virus?
    
    It would seem Maori do not have the same healthy statistics as the general population.
    It could be argued that smoking is a choice (as is almost everything else, really) but Maori women are those who are most effected by this addiction and assumedly their health suffers greatest from the consequences of the practice – mainly respiratory disease –and they must be one group most susceptible to the ravage of covid-19, as have been the elderly of Italy and Spain suffered.
    
    While some are saying now, is the economic tsunami about to strike us worth a few hundred seeming mild but active virus cases we have, and less than twenty in hospital care.
    
    But for some yet unexplained reason this pandemic has not struck Maori and wiped their elderly and ill out in thousands, like Italy or Spain – both of which countries, Otago University expert Professor Wilson has said have better health systems than New Zealand.
    
    The special Maori-targetted investments in health to battle this virus, obviously indicates an anticipation the Government has – plenty of medical historic evidence to warrant it – but is as yet not realised.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:26am
  - Ruahine
    
    The only reporter likely to ask that question during the present created climate of fear is one who does not mind if they lose their job.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  So Hone’s done a little travelling on the side.
  Why wasn’t he arrested at the Auckland borders?
  Did he have a Police escort?
  Where is he now?
  
  When others are being arrested for being out why does he have a different law?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:30am
  - GT Build
    
    Essential work – eating
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:45am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Is Hone a licenced Taste Tester?
      
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      April 17, 2020 2:19pm
- MrTips
  
  Wouldn’t it be a little stereotype promoting for Hone to say to his sister “cook me some eggs”?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:34am
Dougal10

Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the two different level 3s . Was the 2 day one last month just a restaurant napkin scribble.
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April 17, 2020 8:33am
- Ruawai
  
  Level 3 before and after are not equal dontchakno!!
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:22am
Komata

MaggieP@0819

Well, to hear him tell it, Mr William (Bill) Gates is JUST the person for the job; he has ‘Vaccines’ don’t y’ know…

(The fact that he can’t even keep a virus off his electronic products is, of course, quite telling – and says a lot about the ‘quality’ of his ‘vaccines’ as well…)
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April 17, 2020 8:34am
oldpark

Way back then when the proposed sob-fest in Christchurch was dumped by Ardern and her cabal . A lot of angst was offered by many people .
At the time the Peters selected NZs PM was hedging her choices on what the **** she could do about the very real threat of the Coronavirus.
All attempts to get her to shut NZs borders had failed . Her excuse she was waiting on dare i say it now buying time for the Sob -Fest,except in essence she said many many times she was waiting advice from the alleged corrupt WHO for direction regarding the Coronavirus .
Suddenly as a face saver Ardern and her cohorts without a beg you’re pardon, rushed through a complete shut down of all the Human Rights of NZs.Now after almost Four Weeks of a now very debatable call we are now seeing the result.
Yes the house or buildings have been burned down figuratively speaking, virus under control with sadly a great heap of ashes with NZs economy virtually destroyed and a complete carnage for NZs Hospitality about to be totally destroyed .Who or what thinks that was a great idea to completely shut down the whole nation .
Perhaps Socialist Idealogy played a huge part in recent events . After the huge speech yesterday by Peters selected PM Ardern talking at the listeners, not to them makes one wonder .”Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely”.Just saying .
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April 17, 2020 8:35am
- GT Build
  
  Yes we went rockstar to Venezuela in 4 long weeks
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:29am
- DeepBlue
  
  Just say restaurants and cafes had been open over the last four weeks. Would they have had any customers? Would they have been able to source and process food at a safe and profitable level? I think not many. I know I was very anxious at the last restaurant I attended and very anxious to be in town for groceries, not loitering etc.
  
  The scare tactics and virus unknown is what has undone our commerce.
  
  The reality is the moment any form of lockdown started many restaurants and cafes were doomed. It will be interesting to compare food sector business survivability with Australia. Ditto construction.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:56am
Tony Stuart

Why, when the country is in lockdown and our freedoms are severely restricted, did a select committee meet yesterday to rush through deliberations on Andrew Little’s Bill to, among other things, give prisoners the vote?

https://twitter.com/dbseymour/status/1250677858344636417

It’s not just David Seymour objecting; Nick Smith has posted an excellent piece on Facebook denouncing the Government’s determination to progress this legislation while peoples’ attention is elsewhere:

https://www.facebook.com/honnicksmith/photos/a.306287793195291/819625991861466/?type=3&theater
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April 17, 2020 8:42am
- MrTips
  
  If it passes, National and Act and anyone sensible would do well to campaign on repealing this.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:35am
- Tricati
  
  They deferred the bill that increased penalty’s for those assaulting first responders, but are pushing through this crap. We have arseholes assaulting police and first aid providers, especially at this time of covid 19, yet the government is focused on prisoner rights – Say’s it all really.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Parliamentary website say that bill is still before the Justice Committee, with submissions due by 24 April. The committee met yesterday, so I suppose it is possible that it voted to cut off submissions and proceed. Seems unlikely.
  Video is here, so perhaps you could view and report back.
  https://www.facebook.com/JUSCNZ/videos/571979716777868/
  I note that David Seymour is not a member of the committee.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:41am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That was one of the issues raised by Nick Smith mikenmild:
    
    10 reasons why it is so wrong :
    
    1. Govt told nation “all parliamentary business before select committees would be suspended” (NZ Herald) when announcing lockdown and Parliament adjournment.
    (It seems they forgot to say except law changes that will help Labour win next election)
    
    2. Govt has deferred Justice Select Committee’s other bills on sexual violence and better protection of first responders. Labour is effectively saying rights of prisoners to vote are a higher priority than fairer trials for rape victims or protection of first responders like paramedics.
    
    3. 5 mill NZers are facing unprecedented restrictions on their rights under lockdown being confined to home, unable to meet or protest, thousands of businesses banned from trading, media like com papers prohibited from publishing yet the govt priority is advancing prisoner voting rights.
    
    4. MPs are inundated with serious constituency problems – most I’ve had in 30 years in Nelson totalling hundreds – and serious issues like access to PPE gear, getting Covid-19 tests, issues over essential industries etc and Govt requires me to be on six zoom meetings (todays 3hours) on advancing prisoners rights to vote.
    
    5. Govt has cut normal Select Committee process of six months to less than half that, and Justice Minister Andrew Little says officials cannot provide normal report or give full answers to Select Committee questions. We were hearing submissions today before they have closed. Normal practise is submissions heard after they are closed.
    
    6. Electoral Commission told Parliament early last year any changes to law for 2020 election had to be passed six months in advance to properly implement ie 19th March. If this was such an urgent issue, and it has been debated for decades, why was it not included in one of 4 earlier electoral bills advanced during this Govt.
    
    7. Electoral law is of special significance as Govt of day should not be able to use simple majority to screw scrum to make their own reelection easier. This is 4th electoral bill under this govt with no consultation across house and forced through on narrow majority. Former Justice Minister Amy Adams pointed out today every Govt electoral bill under Key/English years went through full parl process and received cross party support.
    
    8. Prisoners have not voted for vast bulk of NZ electoral history and do not vote in similar democracies like UK or Australia. US much tougher with most states withdrawing voting rights for those sent to prison for life. Nationals position is voting is one of liberties lost by those committing serious enough crimes to go to prison but should be fully restored and encouraged when they have done their time. But issue here is rushing unpopular bill through while nation distracted.
    
    9. Particularly obnoxious provision in this bill is that it gives those convicted of serious crimes greater rights and an easier process to be on unpublished electoral roll than victims of crime or law abiding citizens. Govt again putting rights of crims ahead of victims.
    
    10. NZ is in unprecedented times and far bigger issues than whether prisoners vote confront the conduct of Election 2020. How do you have an election when candidates meetings are not allowed, doorknocking is not permitted, protests are banned, party conferences and launches cannot occur and when some media like community papers may not be publishing ? How can NZers have confidence that the election will be fair when Govt has shown it is so willing to play fast and loose on electoral issue of prisoner voting ?
    
    Smith has highlighted a number of issues that should concern plenty of Kiwis. Why, as Tricati mentions above, is this Bill getting preference over ones that give added protections to rape victims and first responders? This is especially so, with cases of Police having been spat at by people claiming to be suffering from coronavirus. And why is the committee meeting at a time when select committees were supposed to have been suspended, hearing submissions before the closing date for submissions?
    
    Andrew Little needs to front up about this. His behaviour is neither open, nor transparent.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:52am
    - Yvette
      
      Tony
      Is this so much to ram the issue through – it might involve about 3,000 votes – or is it to occupy politicians in general, while a select few deal with Jacinda saving the country and the world without too much interference?
      And will “hate law” receive the same priority (and get the implications of that for Shane Jones out of the way, while Winston – supporter of Shane’s racist comments – fishes from his front lawn?
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:14am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Labour is desperate to get this law passed in time for it to be enacted for this year’s election.
        
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        April 17, 2020 12:10pm
    - marcw
      
      Nick Smith currently talking to Peter Williams
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:14am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Apart from the epidemic Response Committee, there have been 6 or 7 committees meeting this week. I’m not sure why all parliamentary business would stop in the age of videoconferencing. If legislation can proceed through the select committee stages, that’s a good thing. As for what business proceeds, that’s pretty much entirely in the hands of the government – governments have never placed any priority on progressing members’ bills from opposition MPs.
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:07pm
Maggie Pie

Being stuck in his ‘bubble’ most of the time, my partner makes sure he watches Jacinda’s press conferences for any new developments. He’s come to the conclusion the reason she keeps referring to his current situation as being in lockdown, is because she can’t pronounce “kwarinteen”
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April 17, 2020 8:46am
Tauhei Notts

I had a surprise this morning.
I have always thought of Peter Dunne as a pompous “git”, who wears a possum on his head.
BUT this morning I heard him on the Mike Hosking show. Peter Dunne is BRILLIANT. The way he put his thoughts, particularly about the Stasi like actions and other unconscionable behaviour being taken was a breath of fresh air. Peter; you are now my hero!
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April 17, 2020 8:47am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Here’s the link to the piece that interview referred to.
  
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/15/1129673/end-this-orwellian-version-of-nz
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:49am
  - Southtop2
    
    Thanks for linking this opinion piece – when combined with the select committee meeting yesterday alarms should be wailing
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:31am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Reported in error, apologies
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:18am
- Swifty
  
  Recent pics of Dunne:
  
  https://cockatoo-info.com/behavior/use-of-crest/
  
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  April 17, 2020 8:59am
- Lucia Maria
  
  Where was Peter Dunne 3 weeks ago.
  
  I suppose better late than never, but Peter Dunne is not a leader in this. He’s incredibly good at sensing change and then pushing his way to the front to ensure he looks like he’s leading.
  
  Jacinda and co should be very worried now that Dunne has come out – it marks the beginning the end for them.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:21am
- DeepBlue
  
  He’s done that trick before… Remember the worm.
  
  Sometimes, somewhere, some people hit the right spot….. And then the star fades away.
  
  What people look for is consistency. That is why people love JA as she is portrayed by MSM as naturally and consistently nice to the people. (today it was the world noticed she thought a reporter needed some sleep).
  
  She hasn’t had to be snarly in public because MSM are not asking hard questions. Bring back Parliament asap.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:04am
cross threaded

Prescription for a recovering economy.
1. Cut company tax rate to 9%.
2. Hire/fire at will – no recourse to Employment Court.
3. No minimum wage, no Holidays Act, no Trading Hours regulations.
4. Infrastructure Director appointed with powers to override Resource Management Act and a mandate to get key construction projects expedited
5. Treaty of Waitangi settlements suspended for 20 years then full and final settlements to be made on 6 February 2040.
6. No liability on employers for accidental Covid transmission at work.
7. Privatise ACC.
8. Compulsory health insurance deducted at PAYE.
IMHO if we miss just one of the above we will see all the boomer business owners fold the tent and gracefully retire early.
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April 17, 2020 8:49am
- Wired-one
  
  Do you really believe any of that is going to happen under this inept government?
  
  What you will get is this
  
  Wealth tax
  Transaction tax
  Inheritance tax
  New top tax rate
  A increasingly bloated public sector
  More regulations
  Continued rent freezes
  More levies
  More regulations
  More government control
  
  The left will use this pandemic to advance as many of their ideals as possible. This event has always been political. From the way they are trying to pass the prisoners voting bill, to plastering ”Labour” over all their printed announcements. New Zealand needs to wake up. The left know they cannot win an election on the policies they are about to introduce. So they will rush them through all in the name of this pandemic.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:26am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Just wait for the General Election. If Labour and the Greens form the incoming Government, without NZ First as a handbrake, watch for all manner of new taxes, including a Capital Gains Tax.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:33am
    - Tall Man
      
      Tony you often refer to “what’s in it for wynston” as the handbrake.
      
      Please get it through your head that he is not, he is the accelerator/throttle that created the whole fuck up in the first place.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:08am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Here’s hoping!
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:11am
    - Ruahine
      
      Yes it will be C.G.T. but repackaged into what will be Death Duties. Much quicker to get their hands on the money that way and Ardern will then be able to lie her way out of the statement that there will be “no Capital Gains Tax on my watch” .
      As an aside if one watches the video clip the words were spat out with incredible petulance for some reason.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:26am
      - Paulus
        
        Understand being discussed is changing the tax rate for superannuation (upwards of course).
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:29pm
  - brett68
    
    Luckily for us, we’ve got Simon Bridges leading the fight.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:40am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It was National’s strong opposition (led by Bridges) to a proposed Capital Gains Tax that led to Peters withdrawing his support for it Brett.
      
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      April 17, 2020 10:57am
    - Tall Man
      
      I know, we could always get “what’s in it for wynston” to go into bat for us.
      
      And therein lies the weakness in your anti Simon stance.
      
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      April 17, 2020 6:41pm
- Grant
  
  Hi cross threaded. It’s great to see such suggestions as yours being made and shared. Like many other, I believe that the ideas that will get us through the oncoming financial shit storm will come from the people rather than the inept fools, ( from all political parties may I add), in Wellington.
  The financial crisis we’re about to face was caused by our government moving into uncharted territories in their response to the virus, ie lockdowns, border closures, et al. Now it’s time for us to think way outside the box again for remedies to ameliorate that crisis.
  Of course many of the ideas that people suggest will be unpalatable to much of the electorate – most of yours will have lefty heads exploding this morning, particularly 1,2,3,5 and 7, but they should all be shown the light of day and discussed.
  So, in the spirit of the above I would like to add:
  9. That what’s left of the Shane Jones Reelection slush fund by repurposed to investment in medical research with the aim of developing our own tests, vaccines, etc so that we can not only be better prepared to look after ourselves but also have an export capability for such things.
  10. That instead of letting the Air NZ fleet sit idle at on the tarmac at Mangere, convert some of the aircraft to freighter capability to take up some of the vast shortfall in air freight that will result due to the collapse of scheduled passenger flights.
  11. Examine the possibility of closer ties with Australia so that we can take advantage of their bigger consumer base – a base which will have more money in its pockets.
  These are just a few thoughts, but I truly believe that we need to stand up now and take charge of own destiny, rather than wait for the kindy teacher and her fawning sycophants to do it for us.
  Onward!
  G
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:46am
  - Tall Man
    
    11) Been, seen and done in 83 CER
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_Economic_Relations
    
    Free trade, free movement although do get a free ride home and even the money is much more simple these days. Remember that people if ardern the thief comes looking for your wallet.
    
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    April 17, 2020 6:33pm
- Inandout
  
  cross, they tried to privatise ACC but unfortunately insurance companies lost millions. You see ACC unloaded all their long term clients, the ‘tails’ ones, and the money losers.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:02am
  - Lance
    
    Not true.
    Utter lies.
    
    It was the incoming Labour govt that was philosophically opposed to it. They rushed with obscene haste to kill the private sector involvement.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:19am
    - Inandout
      
      Lance I worked in insurance at the time and my company lost millions. Keep your abuse to yourself mate.
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:51pm
      - Lance
        
        That’s odd because my wife’s company was making good profits and were super pissed off when they were nationalized out.
        According to you, the companies would have therefore withdrawn from the market. This didn’t happen, they were legislated out.
        So I find your claims rather dubious.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:28pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m not sure what you did at the insurance company and how they lost millions but Lance is on the money to a degree. ACC wasn’t privatised but private insurers were permitted to offer cover in some situations as an alternative.
        
        In a “safe” industry those terms were often at a lower cost than ACC and private insurers generally “avoided” those already on claim. They also avoided high risk occupations which did tend to “skew” premiums.
        
        Labour were ideologically opposed to “private ACC” per se so reversed the legislation allowing the ACC monopoly to resume.
        
        I am still intrigued to know how your company lost millions as we were also involved with many of these decisions at the time and I did not see such a result.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:39pm
- DeepBlue
  
  The thing that stops boomers from retiring is they struggle to adjust to retirement. Given the four week free trial and under Level 3 ability to buy more things, extend their bubble to grandkids, go farther in the car and electric bike, take up and excel in a new hobby etc I think a good proportion will have adjusted quite nicely. Especially if the sale value has been ripped out of their businesses and they need to rebuild under much higher taxes.
  
  Who needs all that stress? Now they don’t have to pretend and go on annual cruises, upgrade the house etc. Society expectations have changed for boomers.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:12am
  - Tall Man
    
    I see your point but for me personally, I have worked my whole life, some times very successfully and some time not so successfully but I have always worked full time, often more than one job both here and overseas.
    
    We are fiscally competent and comfortable but have now settled into an occupation that we both enjoy and with people on both sides of the equation that we enjoy and as advised to a poster prior to this, we get well paid to sort out idiots, why do it for free.
    
    So, why “retire”!
    
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    April 17, 2020 6:28pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Cross Threaded
  
  You wouldn’t get hardly any of that under National, probably only #4. Probably not even much of it under an ACT government.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:49am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Just to add to this point. The prescription proposed by Cross Treaded is the sort of economic prescription that applies only in the most republican of US states. Almost libertarian.
    
    New Zealand is not remotely like that. There is a strong social economic compact in New Zealand that balances interests of employer and employee. That has survived the reforms on the 1980’s and 1990’s. It is why the size of government in NZ (central and local) is about 35% of GDP. In the US it is closer to 25%, and that is taking into account that defence spending is nearly 20% of the federal budget, compared to less than 3% of the govt budget in NZ.
    
    So National, for instance, would not agree to no protection of workers. It didn’t during the era of the Employment Contracts Act. So that means #2 and #3 are non-starters.
    
    Nether would it say no to all Treaty settlements. Simply not in the DNA of its parliamentarians.
    
    Cross Threaded’s prescription would appeal to less than 5% of New Zealand voters (though I suspect about a third to a half of Kiwibloggers). 5% being the about the peak vote of Act in its hey day.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:26am
    - cross threaded
      
      Thanks for the frank assessment Wayne, unfortunately I honestly believe we need these emergency measures to avoid a very nasty depression. Without market forces and freedom to generate/retain wealth there will be no prosperity. Vale western democracy.
      
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      April 17, 2020 6:44pm
Lucia Maria

End the lock down now!

Am happy to hear that the worm is turning in the media (ala Mike Hosking this morning and Peter Dunn, the bellweather of the tide), but the worm is more a snail that is still slithering far too slowly. We have a weekend coming up where nothing will happen, the pressure on our dear ruler will not be as intense until Monday.

Arrggg.

My last bottle of vodka is almost drunk.
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April 17, 2020 9:01am
- Tall Man
  
  Whisky and more ?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:23am
  - Lucia Maria
    
    Yep, given up on the walks.
    
    It’s IT work during the day and into the vodka from 4pm.
    
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    April 17, 2020 9:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      Stick to “walking” from the freezer to the couch 🙂
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:33am
cmm

You can see some interesting looking movements on flightradar.

Gulfstream 550 flew in from China and landed in AKL approx noon yesterday. Off home approx 8am today.

Seems like a long trip to spend 20 hours in quarantine.

https://www.flightradar24.com/GLF5/245e5a6f
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April 17, 2020 9:02am
- Colville
  
  Picked up the kids?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:10am
- SGA
  
  Picking someone up, you think?
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:14am
- Dougal10
  
  Delivered Cindy’s new orders from north Korea via China.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:36am
- Gravelroad
  
  CMM- the link says that the flight data is now not available……..
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:13am
  - cmm
    
    I’m guessing that is due to the plane now being out of ADS/radar range. It will probably pop back in an hour or so.
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:35am
    - cmm
      
      Back now. You can see a black dotted line on the track where it, erm, fell off the radar.
      
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      April 17, 2020 11:27am
- Ruahine
  
  There has been a number of Gulfstream and Cessna Citations landing at Auckland in the past few weeks.
  
  That site is a mine of information.
  https://www.flightradar24.com
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:34am
  - Batman
    
    One of which was the group of Kiwis being flown home from South America via Australia.
    
    Makes sense to use the smaller private jets when you’ve got smaller batches of people.
    
    I expect that was the same for that China flight. Possibly diplomatic staff (though China Southern is still flying here once a week I believe).
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:58am
kowtow

Our media serve us very poorly .

They obsess about Trump and celebrities.

Two important items recently , one was behind a paywall about OMV and a potential find of hydrocarbons at the Toutouwai 1 well , the tightening gas supply in the country and higher electricity prices ,and the Meat Industry Association being forced to convert its boilers : all down to this govt’s ideological hatred of so called fossil fuels .

Then this speech by Robbo

Robertson – he said that while taking account of the “massive disruption to some sectors”, his longer-term plan is to also “address some of the long-standing challenges we face”.

He specifically mentioned climate change, inequality, New Zealand’s low productivity, and trade diversification.

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/104552/grant-robertson-says-we-must-also-not-allow-inequality-take-hold-our-recovery-he

We’re fooked.
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April 17, 2020 9:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pooh Bah goes home when the curtain goes does. The Mikado’s lackey is a good fit for Robbo. (Actually Robbo’s not as bright.)
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:36am
- Yvette
  
  Kowtow – Our media serve us very poorly. They obsess about Trump and celebrities.
  As Bob Jones describes them: “our Jacinda-obsessed non-analytical media”
  
  Mark Longley, managing editor of Newshub Digital, writes another “fluff” piece praising Our Leader:
  “Opinion: Trump v Ardern: How our Prime Minister trumped the most powerful man in the world”.
  
  However it is not a record of any interaction between the two leaders but rather an individual opinion of how each has handled the pandemic. In Ardern’s case, it touches on nothing like the obvious shortage of testing which meant the initial response was neither “early or hard”, that not holding of the Christchurch massacre massed-commemoration was a pivotal issue, and in respect to lockdowns Ardern’s was more a follower than leader.
  
  And Mark Longley writes –
  On March 4 we registered our first case, an Auckland woman who had recently returned from overseas. [1]
  
  No – The first case of COVID-19 is now confirmed in New Zealand in a person in their 60s recently returned from Iran. The results of the test were formally reported to the Ministry at around 4.15pm this afternoon – Friday, February 28, 2020 [2]
  
  So why let facts get in the way of a good opinion? Except it kind of makes you wonder about the rest of the article, if you didn’t have concerns already.
  
  Why do the media write crap like this?
  Is it just so politicians will view them and their circumstances favourably?
  It is certainly not in the interests of disseminating full unbiased information.
  And always crucial information is missing – like, Hone’s breakfast in Auckland story, with its social distancing of a few hundred kilometres, says his sister is a nurse – but not where, or nursing whom, or the possible danger of passing the virus to Hone to take home to “his people”.
  Just as media don’t say if Winston, fishing from his water-front lawn, actually caught anything, other than the whole bloody country (the media took it “hook, line and sinker”) – only been done once before, so some Maori believe.
  
  [1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/opinion-trump-v-ardern-how-our-prime-minister-trumped-the-most-powerful-man-in-the-world.html
  [2] https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/single-case-covid-19-confirmed-new-zealand
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’d not beat around the bush..
  
  We’re FUCKED if we think we can restructure our economy around Zero-Carbon projects.
  
  This is the last grasp of the Green/ Climate Alarmist brigade…and they are manouevering themselves into key positions and rewriting the RMA to ensure all large developments consider Climate Change.
  
  Charles Finny explained yesterday at the Epidemic hearing that this would have a disastrous effect on our economic recovery .
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/scl/epidemic-response/news-archive/watch-public-meetings-of-the-epidemic-response-committee/
  (from 23:20min)
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maggy there are those that view “disastrous” in an entirely different light than you and I.
    
    I believe ardern is one of those that sees a disaster for others as an opportunity for herself.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:31am
- Sacha
  
  Why do people change the subject ?
  Could it be because they are losing the discussion?
  Or that they can see the level of opposition rising?
  Or that the media are bored with the whole scenario?
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:27am
tedbear

Will the govt be extending their kindness in paying the mortgages of thousands of small business operators whose livelihoods have been destroyed by life-crippling govt decisions?
If not, then those that are left will be thankful of a car to sleep in (should that have not also been re-possessed).
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April 17, 2020 9:14am
I remember when

m&m 8.35
Have checked media sites and you appears quite often
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April 17, 2020 9:17am
herb1

Its easy to criticise Ardern because she’s the selected PM not elected and her abject failure in Kiwibuild , child Poverdy, Homelessness ,and well ,everything else.
What we must give her credit for is the complete stopping of death by any cause other than cover 19 , which she’s single handedly kept to 9.
normally in New Zealand 100 people die every day, but now under Jacindas leadership nary a mention , except the poor chap , killed by a stag.
Her skills seem to have gone global as well and the usual 153,500,000 daily deaths seem to have stopped.
Credit where credits due , Winston nominee must be doing something right
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April 17, 2020 9:19am
I remember when

Standing in line of six all correctly spaced outside corner dairy. Girl in front of me was a pleasant young maori girl. Another young maori mother with three children appears around the corner. Girl in front of me leaves the queue and rushes over and throws her arms around her. Short conversation.
Rejoins queue with smile and says “Whanua”.
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April 17, 2020 9:28am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I saw a Maori gathering of 8 people in a park yesterday. Picnic lunch complete with small barbeque. They were having a great time 🙂
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:57am
  - Tall Man
    
    But they are “not” us.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:29am
  - Sacha
    
    They were in their bubble.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:30am
euro2019

By when does this communistic leaning government understand all these decisions made are leading to a big economical disaster just to justify it might saved some extra lives. And now it will cause lots of hurt and an increase suicide rate because of it.
And the idea to eradicate the virus is indeed very much a “pie in the sky”. Why was there never an attempt to eradicate the influenza virus which causes every year death?
The most incompetent and irresponsible government the entire world ever seen.
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April 17, 2020 9:29am
I remember when

Of course she said “Whanau”
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April 17, 2020 9:34am
Lucia Maria

Some guy on the radio just said that those people calling for the lock down to end need to be reined in, that they are the ones in tinfoil hats spouting conspiracy theories that will cause civil unrest, etc.

Message being: While in Lock Down, no Criticism of the Lock Down is Allowed.

I find these “don’t question anything” types terrifying.
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April 17, 2020 9:41am
- Ruawai
  
  People that question climate change propaganda and people that question CV19 propaganda will be rounded up for reeducation forthwith!!!
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:02am
KevO'Brien

The claim to eradicate the virus is spooky. No one can do that. We endure each year, not pretend to manage the whole world like a madperson.

Are we being set up in NZ for the Gates Follies? A locked down state until Gate has his vaccine ready and can microchip the population to prove delivery? The WHO is waiting to assist with that. (Gates funds them too.)
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April 17, 2020 9:42am
KevO'Brien

Peace by default?
https://warontherocks.com/2020/04/toward-a-new-theory-of-power-projection/?utm_source=whatfinger
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April 17, 2020 10:02am
emmess

This is how the mainstream media operates

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/52299689/coronavirus-false-claims-by-politicians-debunked

They ‘fact check’ right leaning politicians and then claim what they are saying is false, when in fact they are giving credible if as yet unproven information.

It is definitely possible (and likely) that the coronavirus was created in a bio lab.
It is definitely possible (and likely) that hydroxy is an effective treatment.

Just because a claim has not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt does not mean it is false (or true)
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April 17, 2020 10:03am
- Ed Snack
  
  I’ve seen a paper that claims that engineering the virus looks very unlikely because of the pattern of the mutations; and another that suggests that rather than Pangolins, the intermediary species may have been turtles.
  
  This doesn’t mean that the virus did not escape from the Lab in Wuhan, it is a perfectly reasonable theory that the virus was studied there and escaped because of poor bio-security. This is supported by information we have; the Lab was studying exactly these sorts of BCV’s including a number of unspecified varieties, with an emphasis on studying how they migrate to humans; China has moved very quickly to scrub all online data it can relating to research at the Lab and BCV’s; and in 2018, the US State Department issued a warning that from their visit that they were allowed to make to the Lab, it was a significant risk because of inadequate security (biosecurity that is) and poor enforcement of what security there was.
  
  Bio-engineered is probably off the table now, the genetic information pretty much disproves it (just in my reading IMHO) but the release from the lab has, again IMHO, increased in probability to quite a high level. And we will very likely never know for sure unless the Chinese admit it, as they essentially control all of the information that is needed to show this.
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:42pm
  - cmm
    
    “I’ve seen a paper that claims that engineering the virus looks very unlikely because of the pattern of the mutations”
    
    Like you I am skeptical that this was bioengineered but not for that reason. I think it was more likely poor biosecurity.
    
    The theory goes that natural processes are messier than humans, so if there is messiness then it was most likely natural.
    
    That might have been true in the past, but these days most bioengineering is done with genetic algorithms (GAs) because they can find designs which normal engineering cannot.
    
    GAs are computer programs that mimic natural genetic/evolutionary processes and produce very messy outputs.
    
    As an example of this, compare the GA-designed antenna in this picture vs the TV antenna on your roof or the antenna on your Wifi router:
    
    http://www.jeffreythompson.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GeneticallyGrownAntennas_NASA-web-1024×441.jpg
    
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    April 17, 2020 2:36pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Shades of Soviet Russia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak
    
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    April 17, 2020 6:11pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I would say that Occams razor makes it most likely that the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab where it is known that investigations were being done on exactly the type of bats (from far off Yunan province) that the virus comes from. Not likely that there was any intent, though wouldn’t be surprised to learn that they had been doing in-vitro tests on trasmissibility to humans that might have encouraged a human-viable mutation to occur.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:16pm
lifesgood

I reckon we’ll have two more weeks of stage 4 then 6 weeks of stage 3 to cover the 12 weeks income support handed out.
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April 17, 2020 10:07am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  I am reckon it will be Stage 3 next week. The PM has raised too many expectations, which she would be fully aware of. Maybe Stage 3 for another 4 weeks, maybe a little less.
  
  Stage 3, as now defined, is a little less than the current Aussie lockdown. And that is working well in Aussie, so why not here?
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:43am
  - Tall Man
    
    Wayne, I have a son working in Queensland and has done so since day one of their “lock down”. Most food outlets are open as are butchers, green grocers and so on. Cafes that choose are providing takeaway meals and the golf course has been open.
    
    His commute is 60 ks each way and he has managed that without being stopped and questioned by police. He has not been threatened with being taken for a visit to “our place” and his child’s daycare is still open for parents who need to utilise it.
    
    Common sense has been applied in his area by both police and the citizens, something that was not permitted here.
    
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    April 17, 2020 11:27am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Police Roadblock yesterday at the Esmonde Road end of Lake Rd
      “Papers please!”
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:05pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Did they get Hone?
        
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        April 17, 2020 2:29pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Home Kev, “Home” 😉
        
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        April 17, 2020 6:11pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “I reckon we’ll have two more weeks of stage 4 ”
  
  No.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:51am
- Scooter
  
  I thought that too, or L3 for the next month then 2 for last month with 2 being slightly less restrictive than 3 eg she’ll allow boating so First Fish can be released.
  
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  April 17, 2020 9:37pm
kevn

‘Stamp it out’…. ‘Eradicate’… strong words.
Yeh right.
Never happen, couldn’t even sort the measles issue.
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April 17, 2020 10:25am
- kowtow
  
  Slogans are easy.
  
  In depth stuff , not so much.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:36am
- cmm
  
  Easy to accomplish if you just redefine what the words mean.
  
  Then, if it still goes pear shaped just say it was just aspirational.
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:38am
- herb1
  
  next time our dear appointed leader talks of eradicating the virus , can our media ask why she isn’t eradicating heart disease and cancer. they surely can’t be any harder to eradicate and kill around 27 million annually .
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:40am
- RW Capitalist
  
  More bumper sticker slogans
  like
  “we went fast and hard”
  source….JA
  inspiration….”tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth”
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:25am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  At current rate of fall (assuming exponential decay) we will hit 0 new cases in 2 weeks. So there is a chance, but need to ramp up testing of anyone with symptoms to be sure, and should be face masks on everyone out in public.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:19pm
Fletch

I posted this last night, so not sure if people saw it. A little infographic I was attempting to make to show the reaction to the virus by Trump and Ardern and the relative speed of their actions.

If anyone can think of events to add to improve it please let me know 🙂

https://time.graphics/line/367298
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April 17, 2020 10:29am
- MrTips
  
  Cool work Fletch. Send it to Garner, Williams and Hosking. I dare you 🙂
  
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  April 17, 2020 10:35am
  - Fletch
    
    Haha. Thanks.
    Also I was finding it difficult to include lockdowns in the U.S as each state governor has instituted different lockdowns.
    
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    April 17, 2020 12:22pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Ardern should be in Red
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:42pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Add another variable, Scott Morrison. Why you appear to be obsessed with Trump’s actions beats me. I would have thought starting with notification to 5 Eyes partners by the US and denials by CCP and WHO as another set of variables would help add validity to your efforts.
    
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    April 17, 2020 1:36pm
Fletch

Unbelievably, there was a traffic jam on the Southern Motorway yesterday (see image at link). It was caused by a crash with a truck and closed two lanes going North and one lane South.

https://www.facebook.com/nztaakl/photos/a.211476468926366/3758461827561128/?type=3&theater&ifg=1

Do you think all those cars are essential workers?
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April 17, 2020 10:33am
- Inandout
  
  No, they are getting weary of level4, and wait for next week. The Police can’t question hundreds of drivers.
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:00am
- calendar girl
  
  Over what period of time had the vehicles depicted been held up? Without knowing that, it’s impossible to know – or estimate – how many vehicles per hour (or per minute) had been held up.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:20pm
oldfella

Judith Collins on this morning’s TV3 AM sh0w was pushing for us to go straight to level 2. The same show was running a baseline caption that said NZ’s Chief Science Advisor was recommending the same thing. But now I can’t find links to either story. Anyone else see those items, or was I just stumbling around in a pre-coffee fog?
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April 17, 2020 10:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here she is referring to level 3 being Level 4 with KFC
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-alert-level-3-a-lot-like-level-4-but-with-kfc-judith-collins.html
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:07am
  - oldfella
    
    Thanks, Maggy. I misheard. Yes, Collins did say, ‘Level 4 with KFC’. Which would be even funnier if it wasn’t so true.
    
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    April 17, 2020 12:00pm
Southern man

Very interesting article in CNN this morning. Its lists the four countries who go their response right in the fight against Covid 19. The luvvies and spinners in Wellington will be apoplectic over the fact that Jacinda and NZ did not figure in the list.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/16/world/coronavirus-response-lessons-learned-intl/index.html
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April 17, 2020 10:48am
I remember when

Go hard go early.
India screening from 18th January.
International Arrivals Health Card listing travel details and health conditions.
28 Days Isolation
Rung 2/3 times a day.
16,000 teams to ensure quarantined stay there
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April 17, 2020 10:49am
Fletch

Trump tears the press a new one when they harangue him about not closing the borders earlier…

“Here’s the thing. How do you close it up…. You have no deaths, and no cases on January 11th.

‘Um, doctor, would you recommend closing the United States of America?’
‘Oh, this must be terrible – how many cases do we have?’
‘None’.
‘How many deaths do we have?’
‘None’.
January 17th – [..] this is a little over 10 days before I did the ban. I did a ban on China, you think that was easy? I then did a ban on Europe. […] But how do you close up the United States of America?… So, on January 6th – no deaths. On January 11th – no deaths, and no cases! On January 17th – no cases, no deaths. I’m supposed to close up the United States of America… when I have no cases…

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=external&v=1828178323983173

The whole thing is great. It is easy to see though that these reporters have no respect for Trump and no respect for the office. They are arguing with Trump like you might with your uncle at home. No respect at all.
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April 17, 2020 10:52am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Well, their lack of respect has always been heartily reciprocated by President Man-baby.
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:23pm
Tasman Terror

The Prime Muppet claims we are in lockdown to save lives. She relies on the Health Act to achieve that. She voted for Acts that allow decriminalisation of abortion and euthanasia. Spot the difference? Unwanted foetuses and unwanted adults can’t vote too easily. Meanwhile 660 flu victims will die this year; they don’t count because you can’t play the hero at 1 pm each day on state funded tv.
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April 17, 2020 10:53am
- cmm
  
  I reckon many of the people “saved” by the lockdown are on borrowed time and won’t be voting in the election anyway.
  
  Unless they have extremely early voting in the next couple of weeks…
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:41pm
Suze Wainwright

Does NZ’s MSM have enough self awareness to understand that its unbridled love and adoration of Cindy will ultimately turn into a sick parody of itself?
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April 17, 2020 11:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No, they don’t.
  
  And perhaps for good reason…
  Jacinda will be releasing a sweet-heart deal very soon to her media mates.
  
  There’ll be a scramble/scrum for who gets the choice pickings….. there might be a few grizzles, but basically all will be hoping to jump on the shiny new digital multi-media gravy-train….tax-payer funded (of course).
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:50am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Hmm, no room for professional pride and dignity I guess… And I guess you could say it already is a sick parody of itself.
    
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    April 17, 2020 12:00pm
    - Harriet
      
      “We’ll help NZ make the changes that need to be made.” — Sinead Boucher on becoming CEO of media interests in NZ.
      
      Who’s ‘we’ and what are the ‘changes’?
      
      Anyway it’s that blinded attitude and unquestioning loyalty to the narrative and Dear Leader that now has everyone convinced that government is the answer to everything including your current economic woes, where you are now all helping each other go broke by ‘planning a earthquakeless rebuild’ with her calling every single shot – it could have instead been a case of staying open like Australia and in short time have all employers shouting staff morning tea and lunch from local cafes etc. and the follow on would be that people made the effort to eat out one night a week, buy a handful of winter items, get on with life and go into the election and Xmas with some economic rationality, hope in other words.
      The market would largely return to normal for most with less planning. Instead despair and anxiety is your lot now.
      
      But what the fuck would I know — I’ve never used a cash register in a ma and pa fish and chip shop. I’ve just owned a couple of restaurants. Maybe it would be best for all if I joined the ‘we’ group. 😎
      
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      April 17, 2020 12:43pm
      - RichardX
        
        Were these restaurants in Australia or NZ?
        
        Based on your comments and complaints around employers underpaying staff, I find it hard to believe you were a business owner.
        
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        April 18, 2020 12:11am
BeaB

Mark Longley’s article in Newshub comparing Trump and Jacinda is a disgrace – full of selective facts, totally biased and even wrong. No mention at all of Trump closing the borders to China, Iran and the EU, long before Jacinda took action on our borders.
Is this how our media are going to survive? Following Wendy and Simon’s nightly propaganda hour?
I have a recent arrival back home to NZ from Australia in my bubble and she is horrified at the juvenile, shallow and partisan news programmes we are subjected to, usually nothing more than government propaganda and magazine items. Jacinda’s oratory is likened to a fifth form speech competition runner up!
When did our media become apologists for the government and a propaganda arm?
Sadly, I think it was when the sainted Jacinda blinded them all with fairy dust.
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April 17, 2020 11:19am
- brett68
  
  When the government started propping them up.
  You don’t bite the hand that pays your bills.
  
  24 3
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  April 17, 2020 11:35am
  - igm
    
    It’s not the government paying the bills, it is taxpayers, of which very few, if any, support this pseudo-communist regime.
    
    16 4
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    April 17, 2020 12:16pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      All adults, and many children, are taxpayers. If voters are are representative sample of all adult (taxpayers), then the present government represents over half of them.
      
      4 19
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      April 17, 2020 12:26pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        While most people pay tax, there are far fewer that are net tax payers. When someone receives all their income from the government, but it’s taxed to ensure any additional income (non-Govt source) is taxed, it’s very dishonest to say that they’re tax payers. Likewise anyone that receives more in transfers than pays in tax. You’re technically correct but your argument is meaningless.
        
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        April 17, 2020 1:45pm
      - herb1
        
        Don’t you mean all adults like yourself , a considerable few who pay tax from the money gifted to them by other taxpayers who have to work 40 hour plus weeks to do so
        
        7 3
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        April 17, 2020 1:48pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        NET taxpayers, buckwheat. Paying way MORE in tax than we ever get ‘allowed’ back.
        
        8 1
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        April 17, 2020 1:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m glad you could all help me correct igm’s error in even more detail. All alone in the council bedsit; he gets easily confused.
        
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        April 17, 2020 3:07pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        BTW, Libertarians, etc, do you mean to say that public servants are not net taxpayers because they receive their salaries from the government?
        
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        April 17, 2020 3:09pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘Sadly, I think it was when the sainted Jacinda blinded them all with fairy dust.’
  
  I don’t believe Ardern blinded the Media .Rather the Media Party were presented a candidate they liked . A likable female lefty , as opposed to Angry Andy with no marketable character.
  
  Why do I say that ?
  
  The first day after the scared Labour caucus rolled Angry and installed Ardern she was on the campaign trail and it was a reserve bank interest meeting day , she was asked by a reporter what she thought and she clearly didn’t know that said meeting was on .
  
  To me it showed she was not in touch with the vital pulse of what was happening in the policy sphere of the economy but more vitally the Media Party gave her a pass , knowing she was an empty suit.
  
  Had she been a right wing candidate like a Palin it would have been a howling mob with pitch forks and torches , but she got her free pass and without any new policy announcements Labour shot up in the polls and the rest is history.
  
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  April 17, 2020 11:43am
I remember when

From a recent obituary.
Dad’s wishes for a minimal service have been exceeded
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April 17, 2020 11:37am
greenfinger

For a country that claims high transparency, Jacinda and her team should look at Dr Deborah Birx’s presentation today and the detail criteria for reopening the economy in the US. I frankly doubt any of the NZ decision makers has developed this level of detail for criteria to reopening NZ. The communication from the NZ Govt just smells of decision making on the hoof. We want details, not the smiles and platitudes.
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April 17, 2020 11:54am
Max

We in NZ are concerned this draconian lockdown will continue after next week.

The virus is not such a worry here and the airports are finally quarantined from last week. The problem now is getting all people locked out of their work back into work. There have been many violations and think it will get worse if it is not relaxed.

As of yesterday only 12 people in hospital in the whole of NZ and a total 9 deaths in all it does not seem logical to sacrifice people”s livelihoods anymore. The coalition government seem to be forgetting the health problems caused by job losses and financial ruin, in their desire for a low virus case load and control over NZ. They want to eliminate rather than mitigate …. but at what cost?
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April 17, 2020 11:56am
- Harriet
  
  40,000 committed suicide in the US after the market crash at the start of the great depression.
  
  God knows what domestic arguments, family upheaval, separation and depression is going to bear on NZ society in the next 6 months, but what I do know is this, general despair and anxiety is going to be your biggest worry.
  
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  April 17, 2020 12:06pm
  - RichardX
    
    So what you are saying is general despair and anxiety, also known as being worried, is going to be the biggest worry.
    
    Thanks for that gem of Harriet reasoning
    
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    April 18, 2020 12:07am
Maggie Pie

My partner was wondering if anyone knows of somebody like ‘Deidre’ that you can write to here in NZ? Apparently there’s a few questions he’d like answers to as well….

https://www.thesun.co.uk/dear-deidre/11405373/
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April 17, 2020 12:01pm
- cmm
  
  Can’t Krispy Kremes answer all questions?
  
  7 2
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  April 17, 2020 12:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Offer to post his letters to “Deidre”….
  then open them up and read. them…..
  
  post his queries on KB…
  
  I’m sure some of us can provide helpful answers.
  
  16 1
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  April 17, 2020 12:53pm
  - Tall Man
    
    And if not well, they do say laughter is good for what ails you.
    
    6 2
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    April 17, 2020 1:10pm
- Fletch
  
  Lots of people miss Deidre…..
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsDYy1l6TQU
  
  Everything reminds me of a song…
  
  4 2
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  April 17, 2020 1:35pm
greenfinger

Waiting for the day when Jacinda and her team to put her ever evolving “eradicate” in to reverse gear … “eradication was always an aspirational goal”, $50bn extra to our national debt and probably a few hundred thousand more additional unemployed than necessary. But hey, who is counting, right?
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April 17, 2020 12:04pm
- MCos
  
  There’s that ‘probably’ word again.
  A few weeks ago we were ‘probably’ going to have eighty thousand dead.
  Now we’ve ‘probably’ overreacted because there’s only eleven.
  BTW
  Have you got any ‘probables’ for what would have happened if the government had done absolutely nothing? Except that our tourism industry would still have been chopped off at the knees.
  
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  April 17, 2020 3:33pm
  - greenfinger
    
    MCos,
    
    Yes. My hairdresser would probably have stayed opened, my local Maccas, KFC and Friday Fush & Chups joint would still be operating, my local golf club would probably have stayed open for play, my employer would probably have kept me on, and your taxes would definitely not be funding my life style. Is that enough “probables” for you?
    
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    April 17, 2020 5:39pm
GoVege

Jeeeezzz….what a lot of whingeing today!
Im just happy I can get my caffeine fix through drive-thru next week!
And hopefully even see my grandchildren at last….what torture that has been.
Just can’t take them into McDonald’s yet….
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April 17, 2020 12:12pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Whingeing is the Kiwiblog stock-in-trade…
  
  4 30
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  April 17, 2020 12:31pm
  - GoVege
    
    You stop getting cheeky, milky!
    You know you love it here… 🙂 🙂
    
    13 1
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    April 17, 2020 1:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Never said I didn’t love it. So far as I’m concerned, this comedy site exists for my amusement.
      
      4 11
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      April 17, 2020 3:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        And, Milky, we thought you existed for our amusement – whackin the mole.
        
        10 1
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        April 17, 2020 4:21pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If you feel that way Jack, I’m just glad I can make a contribution to lightening your mood in a tough time for Aotearoa.
        Kia Kaha.
        
        2 5
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        April 17, 2020 5:23pm
Swifty

Battle of Waterloo – 2015 Reenactment – Royal Scots Lights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng3WOK_e94k
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April 17, 2020 12:18pm
GoVege

Anyone else having weird dreams in lockdown?
I inexplicably found myself humming “Mama’s gotta squeeze box” yesterday. Then I remembered I had a dream the previous night I was at a rock concert watching The Who and Led Zepp.
But why??
Maybe I’m subconsciously worried all those cool older rockers are gonna start succumbing to the coronavirus….
Stay in your mansions, fellas!!
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April 17, 2020 12:20pm
- Tall Man
  
  I think it’s more that a bunch of crazy rockers from the 70’s offer more hope for us than the numpties selected by “what’s in it for wynston”.
  
  I think I’d rather have Jimmy Page in charge than ardern 😉
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:08pm
Happychappy

How will the new boundary changes affect the up Election and can we be Guaranteed that all the changes have been done fairly.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12325504
How can you really trust this Government or ur Pime Minister when you look back on the decisions that covered up sexual assaults and how they were swept under the table by Jacinda Ardern.
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April 17, 2020 12:23pm
Swifty

Steve Winwood – “Back In The High Life Again” (Live Performance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ollyGgvGkU
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April 17, 2020 12:28pm
- Fletch
  
  Good song. Here’s what’s been on my YouTube listening list the last few days.
  
  Here’s John Fogerty from isolation singing “Looking Out My Back Door” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7fjGntva18
  
  Deen Castronovo rejoins Neal Schon and Greg Rollie in a Journey Through Time concert. – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0eUyI2kXs4
  
  Tears for Fears live in concert on the celebration of 30 years of ‘Songs from the Big Chair’ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4_mMl0B5mA
  
  Sammy Hagar, Jason Bonham, Michael Anthony, etc, cover the Who’s Wont Get Fooled Again via video link during isolation – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyMAJ8JGxkU
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:55pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Awesome.
    
    Tears for Fears live in concert on the celebration of 30 years of ‘Songs from the Big Chair’ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4_mMl0B5mA
    
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    April 17, 2020 6:58pm
Swifty

Ben Ferencz, the last living Nuremberg prosecutor, turns 100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZHTtfTXjrA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Ferencz
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April 17, 2020 12:31pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRmcps4Z–w
Confusing times for NPC University during the lock down.
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April 17, 2020 12:55pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6GqEpmn_Fk
Say goodbye to Made in China. Some countries might have to add
Shifts to their factories. Sooner the better.
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April 17, 2020 12:55pm
curry4me

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/finally-trump-lays-three-phase-plan-reopen-economy/
President Trumps plan to re-open the economy. Places with fewest cases re-open first.
Social distancing, and non essential travel featured.
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April 17, 2020 12:56pm
John Warren

Who gives a flying fuck what Clarke Gayford thinks?
39 1
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April 17, 2020 12:59pm
- kiwiracer
  
  Another insignificant. . . . . .!!!
  
  15 1
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  April 17, 2020 1:28pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  What an absolute plonker, the irony of the quotation lost on his feeble mind. A spectacularly public self-woosh.
  
  18 1
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  April 17, 2020 1:52pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m fascinated to see that he regurgitates psychobabble about cognitive dissonance and opinion writers.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2020/04/coronavirus-clarke-gayford-defends-lockdown-calls-out-opinion-writers-suffering-cognitive-dissonance.html
  
  Thank goodness he’s never expressed an opinion on anything.
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:58pm
  - Happychappy
    
    He like his partner all mouth with no substance and should stick to fishing , but what else do you expect from second rate wannabe Journalists that preach in the cesspit.
    
    11 1
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    April 17, 2020 3:27pm
  - Jack5
    
    Does the Fisherman know what he’s talking about in regard to “cognitive dissonance” when he says:
    
    “Spare a thought today for anyone suffering a form of cognitive dissonance causing dismay that the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff is empty because the fence at the top is working,” the Prime Minister’s partner wrote on Friday
    
    Wouldn’t the cognitive dissonance occur if the fence at the top was secure, but the ambulance at the bottom was full? The general belief would be that the fence would stop the need for the ambulance. If there was a fence and no casualties at the bottom, where would the dissonance in your feelings/beliefs be?
    
    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012
    
    12 2
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    April 17, 2020 4:28pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      My hubby isn’t a new-age man and hasn’t really tuned into PC-Woke language, so he asked me what is cognitive dissonance.
      ” It’s Bullshit,” I replied.
      
      “Yeah, but what does the term mean?”
      he queried.
      “Bullshit”, I answered.
      
      9 1
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      April 17, 2020 5:40pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s a standard psychological description. It’s been tested fairly well in situation such as when religious cults’ beliefs do not match real world expectations.
        
        2 8
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        April 17, 2020 5:48pm
- cmm
  
  Imagine the level of mocking Key or Bridges would get if their missus had to back them up on Twitter.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:46pm
  - Swifty
    
    Heh heh.
    
    8 0
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    April 17, 2020 3:00pm
- Tall Man
  
  Oooo me me me … He was superman wasn’t he?
  
  Sorry, I thought you meant Kent…………
  
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  April 17, 2020 7:02pm
GoVege

Nice to see our handsome former PM, John Key, on the news today.
My God he looks good!
Just shows how stressful being in politics must be, and rejuvenating to get out of it…
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April 17, 2020 1:04pm
- herb1
  
  Its stressful for Key and the likes of English who did a huge amount of work , and were over everything that was going on.
  not so stressful when you turn up part time and even then you only read from someone else prepared notes
  
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  April 17, 2020 1:38pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Telling lies is very stressful, ask a couple of posters on here how they feel.
    
    2 2
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    April 17, 2020 6:52pm
Jack5

For those in the Deep South …

An obituary in the Telegraph touches on a descendant of William Cargill, a co—promoter of the pioneer settlement of Otago. Invercargill’s name is for him.

The descendant, the Anglo-Italian Alexander Guthrie, was 32nd chief of Clan Guthrie. A snippet from the obituary:

Alexander Ivan Bedini Guthrie of Guthrie was born on October 3 1967. His mother, Loetitia Dawn Philips, from whose side of the family he had inherited the Scottish chiefdom down the maternal line, married Leonardo Bedini.

On his father’s side, Guthrie was the great-great-grandson of Captain William Cargill, founder of the city of Dunedin in New Zealand. William Cargill’s daughter, Isabel, arriving almost penniless in Rome in 1893, founded Babington’s tea room at the foot of the Spanish steps – together with what was to become a large Anglo-Italian family.

Both family and tea rooms survived world wars, Mussolini and a German occupation. In March, the coronavirus epidemic forced the tea rooms to close for the first time in 127 years.
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April 17, 2020 1:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wouldn’t it be more practical just to microchip or eartag each of us?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121083996/coronavirus-new-zealand-considering-100m-contact-tracing-covidcard

Old ladies have a habit of forgetting PLASTIC cards.
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April 17, 2020 2:02pm
- emmess
  
  Ridiculous.
  South Australia, had no new cases yesterday.
  https://www.themandarin.com.au/127425-coronavirus-covid-19-in-australia-selection-of-infograms/
  
  If we are on the same track we won’t either in a week, then with a bit of luck, two weeks later we can declare ourselves free of it.
  Will the government have the card out to everyone in three weeks?
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  When you hear ‘contact tracing’ & ‘technology’ quietly mentioned together … your brain should scream “TRACKING CITIZENS” and “BREACH OF PRIVACY”.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:28pm
  - Batman
    
    It is done via an app which you have to willingly install and use.
    
    So you can relax.
    
    6 6
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    April 17, 2020 2:49pm
    - GJM
      
      Until it isn’t voluntary anymore. A bit like how the drivers license was not going to be an ID card when it changed…
      I also fail to see how it will be effective. Say a week without symptoms and fairly free movement. How many people have you walked close to in a normal week? Are they really going to trace everyone of those and then the people they were close to? The police dont even pretend to investigate burglaries ordeal crimes these days, only thought crimes by those who have had a bit much to think.
      
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      April 18, 2020 11:25pm
- Tall Man
  
  Ice cubes and a safety pin is what springs to my mind Maggy ……. No idea why 🙂
  
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  April 17, 2020 7:04pm
I remember when

Txt msg received.
Third time AA Road Service van has been down to road. Wonder why they are so busy??
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April 17, 2020 2:22pm
Durden

Unless you are a Jacinda fanboy/girl it is difficult to trust this government’s spiel. Especially when, as a recent example, when you find out that a Wellington nurse has been off work since April 6 when she became unwell and we hear about it only on 16th.

Jacinda just nods and waffles, Bloomfield et al are talking to a script promoting a carefully constructed PR narrative.

Unless we want to remain mushrooms, this is unacceptable– ” No patients had been exposed to the virus and staff who were in direct contact with the nurse have been offered testing and support, she said. It was not yet known how the nurse contracted the disease and the district health board was investigating how “this possible hospital transmission” occurred, she said. ”

If this was any serious government project, the Steering Committee overseeing it must ask hard questions like the following. The Simon Bridges led “cross party committee” could take on this role and demand answer. Although less effective, our flock of “repeaters” — who claim to hold people in power accountable could ask these questions too and do some digging to verify.

If they can’t they should get out the way. Instead unlock and unleash the power and energy of the people–crowdsource the blowtorch.

To do this, create an online system, where the public can put forward questions AND can vote to prioritise the questions of the day. The top 10 questions every day will be asked publicly on behalf of the people at the Cross Party Committee.

All the remaining lower priority questions must be answered by other officials online within a day. This searchable Q&A remains on record for use by the public in the following days, and is available permanently for use by a Royal Commission and other post-mortem enquiries, and for future learnings and planning.

With the lies, omissions, obfuscations seen to date, the principles of “trust but verify” must apply with all responses and verification information must be sought.

1. How many test kits do we have now. How long will they last at current rate of testing. What supplies are expected and by when.

2. How many full PPE kits do we have. How long will they last at current rate of use and what supplies are expected and when.

3. Provide the detailed documentation of the process you are currently using to track and trace past contacts of identified cases.

4. Provide the detailed documentation of the process used to lock down/quarantine returnees for 14 days that was started last week.

5. What is the definition of the period for reaching a non-infectious state for people who have been confirmed with virus and have recovered. What evidence is this definition based on.

6. What is the current process for handling people, returnees and identified contacts of known cases, who may seem asymptomatic during the period before symptoms appear.

7. What is the process for statistically valid population monitoring, or at-risk population monitoring, to assist with reducing Risk levels.

8. Have you identified the antibody testing that is to be used. The source of supply. Have orders been placed. For how many and when do they arrive?

9. Provide detailed documentation of the process of how risk level reduction will be undertaken.

Maybe some OIA’s could also come out of an exercise like the above.
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April 17, 2020 2:33pm
- Mr Coronavirus
  
  The most important question:
  
  10. You don’t have a clue. Why?
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:59pm
Swifty

General Jack D. Ripper:
Women uh… women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh… I do not avoid women, Mandrake.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
No.

General Jack D. Ripper:
But I… I do deny them my essence.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
Yehhes, yes, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

🙂
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April 17, 2020 2:33pm
- Inandout
  
  swifty, a lovely lampooning of the anti fluoride brigade by Ripper. Precious bodily fluids.
  
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  April 17, 2020 2:57pm
rangitoto

Chinese target Africans:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-16/china-coronavirus-black-african-evictions
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April 17, 2020 3:25pm
- Inandout
  
  rangi, this is not unusual for China. During the Cold War when Africans were schooled in communist China they were not at all accepted by the locals, merely tolerated. Woe behold any African who fraternised with Chinese girls, they were immediately packed off.
  
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  April 17, 2020 3:40pm
trout

Watched ‘High Noon’ last night (courtesy of Maori TV) – ‘1952 American Western film produced by Stanley Kramer from a screenplay by Carl Foreman, directed by Fred Zinnemann, and starring Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly. With those great names I guess it had to be good and it was. The political undertones were interesting; this was the era of McCarthyism and blacklisting of anyone who was suspected of having Communist leanings.
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April 17, 2020 3:28pm
- Inandout
  
  trout, we have learnt since that Hollywood was, and is, stacked with left leaning types. Obviously McCarthy went ga ga toward the end but the likes of Paul Robeson were idiotic to befriend the Russians at such a time.
  
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  April 17, 2020 3:44pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “Tailgunner Joe” – a complete crank
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#Attempted_rehabilitation_of_reputation
    
    2 7
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    April 17, 2020 3:56pm
    - Fletch
      
      Actually, it turns out he was mostly right.
      
      WASHINGTON — Although Joseph McCarthy was one of the most demonized American politicians of the last century, new information — including half-century-old FBI recordings of Soviet embassy conversations — are showing that McCarthy was right in nearly all his accusations.
      
      “With Joe McCarthy it was the losers who’ve written the history which condemns him,” said Dan Flynn, director of Accuracy in Academia’s recent national conference on McCarthy, broadcast by C-SPAN.
      
      Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.
      
      Check out the book Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America’s Enemies
      
      Drawing on primary sources—including never-before-published government records and FBI files, as well as recent research gleaned from Soviet archives and intercepted transmissions between Moscow spymasters and their agents in the United States—Evans presents irrefutable evidence of a relentless Communist drive to penetrate our government, influence its policies, and steal its secrets. Most shocking of all, he shows that U.S. officials supposedly guarding against this danger not only let it happen but actively covered up the penetration. All of this was precisely as Joe McCarthy contended.
      
      Blacklisted by History shows, for instance, that the FBI knew as early as 1942 that J. Robert Oppenheimer, the director of the atomic bomb project, had been identified by Communist leaders as a party member; that high-level U.S. officials were warned that Alger Hiss was a Soviet spy almost a decade before the Hiss case became a public scandal; that a cabal of White House, Justice Department, and State Department officials lied about and covered up the Amerasia spy case; and that the State Department had been heavily penetrated by Communists and Soviet agents before McCarthy came on the scene.
      
      Evans also shows that practically everything we’ve been told about McCarthy is false, including conventional treatment of the famous 1950 speech at Wheeling, West Virginia, that launched the McCarthy era (“I have here in my hand . . .”), the Senate hearings that casually dismissed his charges, the matter of leading McCarthy suspect Owen Lattimore, the Annie Lee Moss case, the Army-McCarthy hearings, and much more.
      
      http://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376951539&sr=1-2&keywords=blacklisted
      
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      April 17, 2020 6:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Reviewing the book for The New York Times, American historian David Oshinsky was harshly critical, calling Evans’ primary thesis a “remarkable fantasy,” asserting that Evans has uncovered no fresh evidence and arguing that the evidence supports the view that communist spy networks in the United States had largely been dismantled by the time McCarthy started his campaign and that McCarthy was “a bit player in the battle against Communist subversion, a latecomer who turned a vital crusade into a political mud bath… The fiercely negative judgments of those who lived through the McCarthy era are widely accepted today for good reason: they ring true.”
        
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        April 17, 2020 7:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  An old favourite:
  Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4a_1UhwgFU
  
  1 7
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  April 17, 2020 3:47pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Somewhat controversial in its day, too:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Noon#Reception
  
  2 8
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  April 17, 2020 3:49pm
- oldfella
  
  FWIW, High Noon was remade for TV in the 90s. Same story (without the great song) and in colour. Was on YouTube for a while, but seems to have been taken down, probably because someone has the option to remake it for the big screen. Can’t wait to see what today’s woke Hollywood will do with it.
  
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  April 17, 2020 5:12pm
Durden

This is an interesting, if heavy article. Describing work done by Nicolas Naseem Talen (author The Black Swan) and Yaneer Bar-Yam who are specialists in probability risk analysis.

The government went hard but definitely NOT early.

Because they like Italy, Spain and others blindly depended on WHO advice — “Taleb doesn’t take prisoners, and labels the WHO “criminally incompetent”. And I fully agree: they get paid billions a year to be the world’s ears and eyes in case a new disease pops up somewhere, and they have still let it happen. ”

Conclusion is here. In simple terms where decisions are required around complex systems (e.g. pandemic), when you don’t have enough information, err on the side of caution–Grandmother’s know this. The article linked below the conclusion extracted below provides a lot of information.

“Conclusion : Standard individual-scale policy approaches such as isolation, contact tracing and monitoring are rapidly (computationally) overwhelmed in the face of mass infection, and thus also cannot be relied upon to stop a pandemic. Multiscale population approaches including drastically pruning contact networks using collective boundaries and social behavior change, and community self-monitoring, are essential. Together, these observations lead to the necessity of a precautionary approach to current and potential pandemic outbreaks that must include constraining mobility patterns in the early stages of an outbreak, especially when little is known about the true parameters of the pathogen.

It will cost something to reduce mobility in the short term, but to fail do so will eventually cost everything—if not from this event, then one in the future. Outbreaks are inevitable, but an appropriately precautionary response can mitigate systemic risk to the globe at large. But policy- and decision-makers must act swiftly and avoid the fallacy that to have an appropriate respect for uncertainty in the face of possible irreversible catastrophe amounts to “paranoia,” or the converse a belief that nothing can be done. ”

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/04/taleb-the-only-man-who-has-a-clue.html
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April 17, 2020 3:41pm
Durden

Also, although the government went hard but not early, hard was also not truly hard. e.g. lack of quick and high volume testing (esp returnees) and trust based self isolation.
11 1
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April 17, 2020 3:44pm
Nerraw

The lack of mandatory quarantine upon entry to New Zealand for EVERYONE ENTERING THE COUNTRY until two weeks ago rendered the closing of the border as totally ineffective. Incompetence raises it head yet again from the worst Government NZ has ever had.
22 2
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April 17, 2020 4:09pm
- Faroffsound
  
  Much like locking the doors to deter burglars and then leaving the windows open at the back of the house. Fortunately the omission doesn’t seem to have had the consequences that it could have.
  
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  April 17, 2020 6:29pm
- MCos
  
  By definition restricting entry to Kiwis, permanent residents and families means the closing of the borders was at least partially effective by definition.
  Depending on how closely those who did enter the country followed the rules determined how much more effective the scheme was.
  
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  April 17, 2020 6:34pm
greenfinger

Is it me, or is this lockdown getting to me, that I think the journalists in NZ just don’t dare to ask, or not smart enough to ask, or simply too in love to the obvious questions during the daily Jac and Ash show? Let start with 1) What gives you the confidence to think that your lockdown can eradicate COVID-19 given the world is still fighting the flu after 100 years? 2) At what point do you say the mental and economic hardship as a result of your lockdown on the surviving 4.98mn kiwis exceeds the value of lives your claim will have been saved because of your lockdown? Do the 4.98mn living kiwis matter less than the eventual 14,000 dead kiwis you claim your lockdown will save?
19 2
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April 17, 2020 4:10pm
greenfinger

I am really looking forward to going from Lev4 to Lev3.5, and for Jac to increase her bubble size a little, from the present 2.00 metres to 2.01 metres and free her from having to look after Neve. It might just help her live in the real world, like the rest of us.
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April 17, 2020 5:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Nearly 130 Health-care workers in NZ have come down with Covid-19.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121080246/coronavirus-number-of-healthcare-workers-diagnosed-with-covid19-doubles-in-a-week
8 1
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April 17, 2020 5:19pm
- Durden
  
  Analysis of causes would suggest lack of PPE ?
  
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  April 17, 2020 5:24pm
- MrTips
  
  I actually think thats a good thing at this stage of the game. Provided they recover, which by the current stats one assumes they are, it reduces risk later on in the most important essential worker group.
  
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  April 17, 2020 7:11pm
greybeard

Why are wee seeing / hearing so much of Helen Clark these days?
11 2
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April 17, 2020 6:17pm
- Batman
  
  She’s a frequent Twitterer and unfortunately her UN gig apparently gives her some credibility when it comes to this sort of mass international response.
  
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  April 17, 2020 6:24pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    She’s been known to talk up alarmist fears about pandemics, only to be put in her place by WHO experts.
    
    The Prime Minister of New Zealand, Helen Clark, told a news conference that WHO experts believed it might rival “Spanish flu” in 1918 – which killed at least 20 million and possibly double that number.
    
    However, an expert from the WHO played down fears.
    
    Pascale Brudon said: “Today we don’t know enough about the outbreak to be able to say that. I would be less alarmed than that.”
    
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    April 17, 2020 10:45pm
- MrTips
  
  Her and Gordon Brown and a host of vampires are working on the new world order.
  
  Don’t laugh – she admitted it today.
  
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  April 17, 2020 7:14pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121090012/coronavirus-hamilton-city-council-boss-pivots-on-20-per-cent-covid19-pay-cut

What on earth does this person do to justify such an enormous salary?
Someone: please tell us.
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April 17, 2020 6:48pm
Fletch

Maggie, hope is at hand –

https://www.themixonline.co.nz/trending-news/chef-reveals-how-to-make-perfect-krispy-kreme-doughnuts-at-home/
4 0
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April 17, 2020 6:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Ordinary folks in retail taking a $$$$ hit.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/414517/covid-19-the-warehouse-to-cut-salaries-and-wages-until-move-to-alert-level-2
6 0
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April 17, 2020 7:11pm
Gus87

There are so many of us “the silent majority” are so angry, fed up, and have our rights been tossed away. We will win by a huge amount. We will get our rights back eventually. Bring on the Election commie JA. JA is going to lose by so much, she will be suicidal. Go back to being Tony Blair’s lap dog.
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April 17, 2020 10:36pm
Stu2

The crew of the US aircraft carrier that has had a Covid outbreak have undergone a lot of testing. Almost all (94%) of the4,800 have been tested. 600 have given positive results but 60% of the 600 have no symptoms. You can see how this thing spreads
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April 18, 2020 3:13pm

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