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April 24, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 April 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

If fixing Kiwibuild was like assembling an Ikea table, then fixing our economy will be like building a space station.
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April 24, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  The real solution is unleashing free markets. In both housing and “the economy”.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:15am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Free markets? Pfff. Off to the re-education camp for you.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:18am
    - Raphael
      
      You jest about that. But in the US, AOC has been saying that once the lockdown ends people should simply refuse to go back to work until they bring about the end of Capitalism.
      https://nypost.com/2020/04/22/aoc-suggests-low-income-workers-should-boycott-after-coronavirus-shutdown-ends/
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:10am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Hasn’t Occasionally Crazy heard about starvation?
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:32am
      - 3-coil
        
        AOC sounds like the bastard love child of Winston and Jacinda.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:10am
      - John Warren
        
        Man, that woman is really showing Cindy how to do dumb properly.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:51am
  - Swifty
    
    I totally agree PhilBest.
    
    Any idea that Labour can micromanage our way out of this any better, quicker or more completely is forlorn.
    
    Free enterprise pays for everything else – the sooner it is allowed to regain it’s full health the better for everyone and everything else.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:37am
    - PhilBest
      
      I’d add to that, what about any tendency within the ranks of National, to believe that they can micromanage our way out of this better than Labour can, and who cares about free markets….?
      
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      April 24, 2020 8:58am
      - PhilBest
        
        Ticks are telling – about Kiwibloggers blind devotion to Vichy, Labour-Lite National.
        
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        April 24, 2020 3:47pm
  - Pete George
    
    Are you suggesting no wage or business subsidies or assistance?
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:04am
    - Crisplion
      
      Obviously no-one’s suggesting that Pete. People left bereft by this unexpected and undeserved calamity clearly need immediate and medium term assistance.
      
      What Phil and others are talking about is that, in order to avoid long term dependence on the state, it will be a far more effective strategy to do all we can to get free enterprise back on its feet than it will be to take a make-work approach like we did in the 1970s with NZ Rail and the Ministry of Works. Unfortunately too many Labour MPs are likely to see this as a golden opportunity to implement socialism.
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:11am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      There used to be a slightly better build-quality in the looney left’s straw men self-assembly kits. Shame.
      
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      April 24, 2020 5:24pm
  - MT_Tinman
    
    The real solution will be restoring democracy, without which no other solutions are available.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:07am
    - Unity
      
      They will need to get rid of the apartheid which has been creeping in. We need to all be New Zealanders with no special treatment based on race.
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      Any solutions for restoring democracy?
      
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      April 24, 2020 1:38pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Start by treating everyone equally in the sight of the law regardless of their melanocyte counts.
        
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        April 24, 2020 5:25pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Commiserations on not managing the 1st post today Phil, there’s always tomorrow and the next and the next day. and so on. You know how it goes, you’re an expert really.
    Alas, your preaching isn’t getting through to the unwashed 87% of whom support the lockdown.
    There’ll be some simple answer to that I’m sure because just a few are always right while the rest of us plebs soldier on believing in abstract ideas of protecting the weak and honouring those whose fighting spirit and willingness to stick together made them large in foreign battlefields. They made mistakes but most often not. Those from the paddocks, furniture factories, and fishing boats stitched together our national identity with its many flaws, stuck with their beliefs, time, and again emerging from each dark cloud stronger, having more finesse with anticipation of improving the future for those to come, those that loved them hoping they would return.
    Many did not of course, and so they were immortalised with the words ‘we will remember them’, bright shining and young.
    Silly buggers really eh Phil? But it’s a fight to be never given up on. And I’m sure you recall the motto of the SAS, ‘know your enemy.’
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/public-backing-for-nz-government-covid-19-response-rises-to-87percent-–-new-poll/ar-BB1348DS?ocid=spartanntp
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:56am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Brian
      
      just a slip up, don’t mean to be a toughie on you…
      
      “Who Dares Wins”
      
      there fixed it for you.
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:19am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Thank Michael. My mistake I wasn’t quoting the motto although I said that, but rather an insight given by a former Governor-General.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:41am
      - Colville
        
        I like the unofficial one better…
        
        perfect prior preparation prevents piss poor performance.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:49am
    - Akarak
      
      Breaking News!!
      Based on current polls showing support for the Ardern led Coalition at 87%, Prime Minister Ardern has announced the postponement of this year’s election until September 2023.
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:25am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        2 things say that’s not correct, the shine is not going to last forever and there are rough seas ahead.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:43am
      - calendar girl
        
        I watched the 1.00pm TV1 briefing today on the Covid-19 pandemic situation.
        
        What a revelation that briefing was! No PM Ardern involved, replaced for the day as she was by Minister of Finance Grant Robertson. His performance (against the background of Ardern’s recent daily appearances) was a revelation – no attempt to project himself as the sole decision-maker, or an expert on health matters; no out-of-context smiles when speaking about very serious issues, and so on.
        
        May we please have Grant Robertson promoted to the role of NZ Prime Minister? Robertson would be one of half a dozen Labour MPs who could do a better job as PM than Ardern is presently delivering. But whichever Minister they choose would do a superior job to that of the “Look at me!” Jacinda Ardern.
        
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        April 24, 2020 3:22pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    More and more “studies”” saying Lock downs dont work….as advertised…
    
    https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/04/62572/
    Check the guys Credentials!!
    
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    April 24, 2020 11:45am
- pdm
  
  kk – that would be building a space station in space.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:13am
Lee C

Is there a correlation between how people vote and how they responded to the pandemic?
Also are you libertarian or Authoritarian:

Your position on that axis depends on your view of the following five statements:

Young people don’t have enough respect for traditional values
Censorship is necessary to uphold moral values
We should be tolerant of those who lead unconventional lifestyles
For some crimes the death penalty is the most appropriate sentence
People who break the law should be given stiffer sentences”
The more strongly you agree with those, the further towards the “authoritarian” end of the scale you fall.
https://unherd.com/2020/04/why-have-the-english-sacrificed-liberty-for-lockdown/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3&fbclid=IwAR2I3-5wcwkJDD25xeVlOLG8nMKmchdj-q_FQl1BVhoKk3tJ9rU_HVPJTFg
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April 24, 2020 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  I think the one question that really decides it, is “do you think people should be free to make their own decisions or do you think society completely planned by smart people would work best”?
  
  This attitude determines people’s responses to crises of every kind. Can this crisis be exploited to increase control over lives? – Y/N
  
  Even many people who aren’t really all that ideological and haven’t done any study or thinking about it, are sucked in by the plausibility of “smart people making decisions for me”.
  
  Generally those of us who are pro freedom, also are deeply cynical about the “smartness” of those who end up running things. Hayek had some incisive things to say, demonstrated by real life experience then and since, about “the kind of mind attracted to central planning”. It was precisely the kind of mind that was completely incompetent to choose a policy course wisely on ANYTHING at any level, even the most “micro” one.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:25am
  - Lee C
    
    … But God only knows what is going through the tiny brain of the one who down-ticked you for writing that, Phil.
    
    I wonder if voting is – like – about intelligence?
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:37am
- amospicton
  
  I would suggest there’s a very high correlation between climate alarmism and virus hysteria.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:43am
  - PhilBest
    
    And in both cases, the sincerity is questionable. It’s really a matter of exploiting a crisis, any crisis, real or not, to impose “political ideas we love anyway”.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:00am
  - JackRabbit
    
    No, no, the virus threat is devastatingly real. We should remain in lock down for at least a year and Cinderella can walk on water. There is a 97% consensus on that, unless you are a denier. 😉
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:07am
    - amospicton
      
      Wear the denier tag with pride!
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:02am
- Belinda
  
  If the government should insist on giving us $1,500 I’m curious to know what people here would do with it, go for it.
  I might go for a cruise, $1500 would probably get me around the world, might not be many others on board, no one would mention the word Covid, I wouldnt have to see Jacinda grinning at me daily.
  
  If this isnt possible I might just give it to ACT or NATS.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:05am
  - alex Masterley
    
    For me, the payment would be plonked into my OD account.
    The money for my sons would be put into their savings accounts.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:23am
    - MCos
      
      If you put it in the bank they can lend the money to someone to extend their house and give work to a builder.
      The whole idea.
      
      Simplified version
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:41am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ll be sending ours overseas.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:38am
    - KiWombat
      
      I will fill a couple of diesel tanks to the brim while fuel prices are down, and before the brains trust manages to add a new tax to it !
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:11am
      - Max Howler
        
        >>So how long do today’s diesel fuels last in a storage tank? 18 -24 months
        I soo get the intent, and I don’t mean to be a nit-picker, but re purposing a couple o Exxon-Valdez holding tanks, and sinking that in your back yard has certain logistical problems – not the least is the life span of the diesel itself 😉
        
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        April 24, 2020 2:12pm
    - Brian Marshall
      
      Smart move.
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:15am
  - Michael NZ
    
    ACT absolutely..
    
    The great unwashed contributing to the only person who has consistently stood up for our freedoms and rights..
    David Seymour, Party of 1.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:22am
    - gorse
      
      Probably the party of between 3 and 7 next election.
      
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      April 24, 2020 1:24pm
      - Mark Craig
        
        in your dreams cooky boy
        
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        April 24, 2020 7:15pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      The Epidemic Response Committee has been interesting viewing to see how MPs operate. David Seymour has been very, very impressive, as have most of the Nats that I’ve watched – Woodhouse, Goldsmith, Bridges and Louise Upston, and Michael Wood on the Labour side.
      
      Scull every time Stuart Nash starts a sentence with “What I will say is this…”, and Willie Jackson is truly the village idiot of the Labour party – a remarkable achievement.
      
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      April 24, 2020 5:52pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Woodhouse and Goldsmith were the 2 stand-outs for me.
        I’ve never really noticed either before.
        
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        April 24, 2020 7:36pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We’re planning a deferred family holiday if this foolish proposal comes about.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:34am
  - Nutta
    
    Obvious spend: toilet paper.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:40pm
- Evadne
  
  But those questions are not a good measure, especially as they’re worded – which is to make out only conservatives are authoritarian.
  
  A climate-activist greenie would disagree with them all, but they’re more authoritarian than anyone.
  
  Let’s reword them to illustrate lefty authoritarianism.
  
  Old people are out of touch and outdated so their opinions are not as important as the young.
  
  Censorship is necessary to make sure people aren’t exposed to hateful comments or wrong ideas.
  
  We must make sure everyone supports and praises those who lead unconventional lifestyles.
  
  For some crimes boycotting, public derision, and forced ostracism is the most appropriate sentence. We shouldn’t allow anyone to associate with, employ or do business with them.
  
  People who hold the wrong opinions shouldn’t be listened to.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:27am
Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy

I’m looking forward with awe to today’s miracle from St. Jacinda.

Already St. Jacinda has turned wine into water, set her people unfree, brought down the 10,000 commandments and sacrificed the Easter Bunny.

Lets see how the resurrection goes in September.

It has been said that when human beings stop believing in God they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse: they believe in anything. (Malcolm Muggeridge)
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April 24, 2020 8:05am
- Don Beckett
  
  Not quite right: “When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in Nothing – they believe in ANYTHING.” G.K.Chesterton.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:36am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Like, someone who won’t stand for something, will fall for anything.
    
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    April 24, 2020 12:03pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  To get a better appreciation of what Muggeridge is really like, watch the excruciating 4-part panel discussion on The Life of Brian on YouTube. Muggeridge comes across as an insufferable, pompous, arrogant fool.
  
  I happen not to believe in god (any of the thousands of them) but I certainly don’t “believe in anything” so he’s wrong.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:43am
marcw

So this COL has plenty of taxpayer money for:
1. Maori – $50million for … well Maori.
2. Bottomless holes – $50million+ for Pike River bodies
and now …
3. News media – $50million for private companies who refuse to target their market to sell themselves because … sycophants.

But no money for:
1. Assisting GP’s who have been locked down while performing a critical role in the community, $20million cancelled.
2. Funding Keytruda – lung cancer treatment drug, funding cancelled.

If any news media accept any of our taxes in light of where the money is coming from – I say you have blood on your dirty slimy hands. I hope you all go bust, and I would ask anyone with a conscience to refuse to tune into their propaganda broadcasts. This has chilling implications for our forthcoming elections. Paid and bought journalists, who would have thought.
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April 24, 2020 8:06am
- igm
  
  marcw: Well said, media have played to a useless bludging left-wing gallery who neither financially support them, nor their advertisers.
  When editorial policies continually malign farmers, businessmen, anthropogenic climate change deniers, and decent people, they get what deserve, as these are the successful and hard working people who spend money that keeps them in jobs.
  It makes me more resolute in never buying a damn thing that may have been advertised in MSM.
  Fairfax/NZME: You reap what you sow . . . leave my fucking taxes alone. Get your left-wing communist supporters to fund your agendas, not me.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:15am
  - G152
    
    They (the current mishmash we have as a government) have to support their propagandists.
    Otherwise those leftist resources might well start to report dispassionately and they cant risk that.
    Is why theres money for them
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:26am
  - LTA1955
    
    The majority of NZers on a day to day basis believe that democracy, common sense, and decency will always prevail. However, with COVID 19 and the COL, this belief is being put the sword on a daily basis. We have chance in September to devolve this Marxist ideological army of unions, MSM, university wonks, and soldiers of the CCP and chuck em in the chipper. One chance and its 5 months away. Get busy in your electorate!!
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:08am
- PhilBest
  
  A point we need to hammer the current do-gooders over, is this. If prolonging a few elderly people’s lives is worth economic sacrifice in the billions of dollars, what is the acceptable cost of lost months and years to people whose treatments were “not funded”?
  
  The typical soft headed Jacinda supporter can’t handle this line of questioning. Where were you when people were crying to the media that their loved one was going to die because the government wouldn’t fund a drug that would cost thousands of dollars a year? Or wouldn’t fund expensive therapy? Why is “now” different?
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:20am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It should be no different. The Ministry of Health monetises all interventions to save or improve life. So does pharmac. And the value of an 80 year old in these calculations is worth much less than a 20 year old.
    
    I am sure someone has done the calculations. I don’t have time to look right now. This lockdown would only have been worthwhile if it was necessary to save many thousands of young people. Otherwise it should have been Level 2 until a vaccine and isolate the vulnerable.
    
    Btw I heard someone yesterday in the radio claim that we were still not testing all old people in nursing homes and care facilities. WTF?
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:30am
    - Toko
      
      The test is too invasive for many fragile oldies, many of who don’t understand what is happening. So they have to go with evaluating the symptoms. Dr Ashley explained it one day on a briefing.
      
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      April 24, 2020 8:53am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Really? How “invasive” are we talking about?
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:10am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Perhaps they don’t want to test the old people to find out that most of them have it but are asymptomatic.
        
        Covid-19 has been in NZ, picked up from overseas, since last year.
        
        Stats, stats, stats.
        
        We still don’t know:
        
        Qty exposed (have anti-bodies, not a carrier)
        Qty infected and asymptomatic
        Qty infected and had symptoms
        Qty died from (not with)
        
        Its a shambles. A broken health system, and broken analytics.
        
        It would be like going to war, and knowing absoludely nothing about the enemy, what firepower they have, how many troops, and what troops are deployed where, but lockdown people to air raid shelters 24/7.
        
        There are probably enough bright people to have nailed the Corina Virus stats, and therefore the strategy for dealing with the Virus and the strategy for minimising economic damage. However, when the overseers consist of Mr Bean, Mr Magoo, Basil Fawlty, and Dame Edna, you’ve got a major problem.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:21am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Toko
        that is misinformation.
        Your source is lying..
        
        my wife had the nose and throat swab this am at Newtown school.
        The nose was ok but the back of the throat was unpleasent.
        Interestingly she arrived 1 hr early at 9am I kid you not.
        They only start at 10am.
        But that wasn’t What she was told on the phone this morning by the MOH.
        Maybe there’s not enough work?
        
        I hope she and her team are ok and her symptoms are just that. cos is screwing up the on call roster this weekend……
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:29am
      - Raphael
        
        @Toko, the test we have in NZ may be too invasive, there are new tests being developed that aren’t and can give an result in 2 minutes.
        
        @JackRabbit 3 different studies looking at antibodies coming out of the US are suggesting that the exposed/infection rate is 25-80 TIMES higher than currently recorded. if correct, this dramatically lowers the actual death rates.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:17am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Raphael 11:17
        
        Thank you for that.
        
        Yep, the truth is coming out. As I and others have been saying for some time, the mortality rate is at best that of the annual flu, or a bad annual flu.
        
        Publishing stats on number of “confirmed infections”/”deaths” is like publishing stats on “number of people at the beach”/”number sunburnt” and then representing that ratio as to the likelihood of the entire population getting sun burnt in their homes.
        
        It is sloppy crap maths, sloppy crap science, sloppy crap analytics
        .
        If any of our generation tried to pull a stunt like
        that in high school or university, we would have got Ds. D for Dunce, D for being a Richard Head, D for Dopey, D for being obvious Dope smokers, and D for “Don’t bother coming to class if you can’t take it seriously.”
        
        I wonder how some officials manage to tie their shoelaces in the morning.
        
        Marty McFly (on discovering how inept his father was): “Jesus, George, it was a wonder I was even born.”
        
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        April 24, 2020 1:55pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep,
      The Aged Care folk have been requesting tests for weeks.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/414150/requests-fallen-on-deaf-ears-rest-homes-consider-buying-covid-19-tests
      
      Seems it’s ok to now test folks heading of to the supermarket but you can’t test an old person who is about to go into a care home.
      
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      April 24, 2020 8:58am
      - BobbyS
        
        100% correct Maggy
        DHB’s are sticking to the MOH directive but Rest Homes are sticking to their Policies of No Test – No Entry
        Imagine the possible carnage AND ill will / bad publicity for any Aged Care provider if they had an outbreak and many died?
        Another example of the MOH failing – however Bloomfield as the DG of MOH is now also a saint. Remember when he told us we had stringent testing / questioning at the border? Then when told that wasn’t the case, he said “im surprised to hear that”
        FFS does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing?
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:07am
      - PhilBest
        
        I don’t know if we have the same scandal here as they have in Britain – where someone old and frail with COVID-19 is being taken not to an ICU, but to a Rest Home where they can infect the staff and other residents.
        
        https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/17/care-homes-and-covid19/
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:08am
      - JackRabbit
        
        And those that HAD it, will test negative.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:37am
      - oldfella
        
        I’m calling on Hone and his followers to set up checkpoints outside every care home and demand all Maori residents are tested before being admitted. That would work.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:32am
      - theoldbloke
        
        There are alternatives to Throat swabs…
        https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/emirates-becomes-first-airline-to-conduct-on-site-rapid-covid-19-tests-for-passengers/
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:53am
    - cmm
      
      What’s the point in doing testing on oldies? What are you going to do with the information?
      
      Antigen testing only tells you if you are actively fighting the virus NOW. That really tells you very little.
      
      That state might change tomorrow.
      
      Do they want to be tested every day?
      
      Unless there is a specific reason why the information can be useful, then testing is a waste of time.
      
      So, to get back to my original question? What do they want to do with the information?
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:24am
      - JackRabbit
        
        cmm, I would guess nothing at all. It is the wrong information. And depending on time of test, blood testing and swab testing will produce different results.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It’s testing of new entrants and re-entrants into a rest home that Aged Care were requesting.
        
        They don’t want all their residents and support staff infected…. but they also don’t want to isolate a new, confused resident for 14 days before they are “released” into the care facilities.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121128476/93yo-woman-cant-leave-hospital-without-covid19-test-but-hutt-dhb-wont-give-her-one
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:45am
      - cmm
        
        Maggy, yes that makes sense!
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:21am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Am I right in thinking the Rest Homes don’t want to isolate all new people/ hospital returnees for 14 days. Presumably thinking a negative test will allow them to skip the isolation phase. I think this is mad as it must be incredibly difficult to test an older or dementia patient and get 100% reliable results. Especially with the consequences of a false negative infecting a residence and our most frail.
        
        Or have I missed the thrust?
        
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        April 24, 2020 2:10pm
      - cmm
        
        DeepBlue:
        
        Single tests are not enough. If someone returns negative, it would be prudent to wait a few days then test them again.
        
        This would result in an effective quarantine of, say, 3 or 4 days rather than a whole 14 days.
        
        That’s got to be a win for people that are easily disoriented and distressed.
        
        Of course, anyone testing positive would need to do the full 14 days (or whatever).
        
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        April 24, 2020 2:27pm
  - Harriet
    
    Excellent point – something Bridges should demand the answer to. 😎
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:34am
- Scott
  
  Also agree with marcw. I would say that for some decades now the mainstream media has been resolutely pro the Labour Party.
  American mainstream media is if anything even worse. The New York Times went full on against supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and wrote extensively about Christine Blasey Ford who accused Kavanaugh of sexual assault against her when they were teenagers. Ford’s story was never corroborated by anybody. To this day it has never been established that the two ever met. But this story was given maximum coverage in the New York Times and to this day Kavanaugh has an asterix against him name (has been accused of sexual assault).
  
  The same New York times took weeks to finally cover the sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden by Tara Reade and only did so after Bidens nomination was assured and everyone else had dropped out.
  
  Bidens accuser told 3 friends of the incident, at the time. So there is corroboration against the Democrat front runner for Pres of the United States but the New York Times has barely covered the story.
  
  Why the different treatment? Everyone knows why. The New York Times is now the media outlet of the Democrat party. They have no interest in covering the news objectively. And everyone knows it.
  Our NZ media is the same. Jacinda is marvellous. Simon Bridges is uncaring and out of touch. That’s their story and they are sticking with it.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:34am
  - Michael NZ
    
    TV1 yesterday.
    The fella brought up Soimans FB account and “the hit on him”
    He was given the bums rush by the Maori Sports writer and the icy stare by the lame blonde lefty.
    He shut up all apologetic, when they chimed Jacinda with “we don’t want politics”….
    
    TV1 Breakfast, Labour Liars.
    Sack them all.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:34am
    - Happychappy
      
      Micheal NZ Jacinda aArdern could commit murder and the NZ media would find a reason to put the blame on Simon Bridges , you only have to listen or read Jessica Mutch and Tova O’Brien to realise that.
      
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      April 24, 2020 5:16pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  “But no money for:
  1. Assisting GP’s who have been locked down while performing a critical role in the community, $20million cancelled.
  2. Funding Keytruda – lung cancer treatment drug, funding cancelled.”
  
  Who cares? 87% Sheeple believe Cindy has done a great job and there are hit jobs on Simon Bridges by Hooton and Jane Patterson of RNZ in NZ Herald and Stuff respectively. All over bar Megan Woods singing.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:54am
  - gravedodger
    
    Noooo not that, I understand we have no protection against “cruel and unusual punishment” hell the threat of that singing with or sans video, makes a year at Waiouru Military Camp exile, a great option.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:14am
- doggone7
  
  The answer could be in what PhilBest said above in ‘unleashing free markets.’
  
  Anyone is able to open a media business. If we know that what exists is no good we start our own. Entrepreneurship it used to be called.
  
  If the existing ones have blood their dirty slimy hands and they survive it’s because there’s a market for them. If they survive because there’s no competition for them? That’s how a market operates isn’t it?
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:26am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Anyone is able to open a media business. If we know that what exists is no good we start our own. Entrepreneurship it used to be called.
    
    True. There is enough grumping here on KB about the left-leaning MSM that one wonders if there is a market opportunity. Dunno if any KBers would be willing to pay for a right-leaning news service, let alone invest in it ….
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:52am
    - Dougal10
      
      We are paying $50 million as it sure didn’t come from the lefties who mostly receive income via the state.
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:13am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Didn’t Slater do that?
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:26am
    - Wired-one
      
      I’d gladly pay for a right leaning tv channel etc like other countries have. The point is though, we shouldnt bloody have to!. Its a disgrace how sycophantic and compliant our MSM have become towards the left. I just want some balance, is that too much to ask?
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:34am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yep, $50 mil here, $50 mil there, soon you’ll be talking serious money.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:45am
- Ultima
  
  Yep totally agree. The media, as they are now, is not an essential service. Anyone can setup a camera with Wifi and broadcast the 1pm update on Youtube.
  Let the MSM outlets die of natural deaths.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:26am
- Akarak
  
  What will people do when this is all over and we are no longer able to view the daily 1pm Muppet Show. Will the only entertainment available be found in watching Jessica Mutch McKay’s eyes on the 6pm news?
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:36am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  They really like that $50m number, don’t they.
  
  Indicates no business case, investment logic mapping … just plucked off the money tree.
  
  He’s called Grant for a reason.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:20am
- Unity
  
  “”$50 million for Maori””
  
  It’s long overdue for us to stop dividing us by race. There are no ‘Maori’ today, only ‘part Maori’. It’s time for a line to be ruled under everything and for us to all be New Zealanders. There many who have part Maori ethnicity who are decent hard working citizens getting by on their own efforts proving that not succeeding is more about being too lazy to get out of their own way than anything else. It’s so much easier to just sit there with their upturned palms. I want to see an end to any special treatment for ‘Maori’. There are many people who need assistance, not just part Maori.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:36am
- GJM
  
  well to be fair, the news media have targeted their market well. They targeted Jacinda and it has paid off to the tuen of $50m as they become more and more a State Owned Enterprise. That amount of money would have bought Stuff outright with $49.9m change, but this way they can’t be accused of having a Pravda state run media…
  
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  April 24, 2020 12:58pm
- Isobar
  
  I am 100% against politicians deciding what drugs should be funded. It is a terrible road to go down.
  
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  April 24, 2020 1:03pm
Cinematic

Looks like up to 3 million New Yorkers have had the virus. That changes the picture somewhat doesn’t it?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-antibody-study-early-results
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April 24, 2020 8:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  Herd immunity works.
  
  Having 100% of the population cowering in their homes doesn’t.
  
  Just look at the North/Central/South American natives when Europeans arrived.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:32am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yes, herd immunity works, but you WILL NOT get that from a natural disease in circulation. Example, measles before vaccination. It was a chronic disease, always present at a fairly low level but with reasonably frequent outbreaks.
    
    You don’t easily get beyond 70-80% immunity naturally as the disease only fitfully spreads in the 20-30% who are not immune, but that’s not “herd immunity”, that’s a “chronic low level disease”.
    
    You get herd immunity at levels around 95% immune, and for that, you need a vaccine.
    
    And given the impact on elderly people, letting this virus loose in the population essentially means consigning something like 50% or more of residents in nursing homes to a fairly rapid demise. They’d get the “ultimate immunity” – death. I don’t think that is acceptable if avoidable.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:18am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Lets assume that the report is correct. So if all New Yorkers get the virus (7 times more people than those who have antibodies) it would imply that the total deaths would be 140,000 if the entire population of New York state got the virus. This being based on the current deaths of 20,000 when 13% of the population got the virus.
  
  Most people would say that is too high a cost to acquire herd immunity. Hence the level of the lockdown.
  
  I suspect it would not have been so severe in New Zealand. But going by Burwood a very big percentage of the elderly who get the virus die. I appreciate that Burwood patients are sicker than most elderly, but it does indicate the risks for older people.
  
  Applying Sweden to New Zealand would indicate that around 1,000 would have died. I appreciate that there are differences but the numbers are large enough to warrant the current level of lockdown. Or at least the level of lockdown as applies in Australia. And in 3 days that is what we will have, a lockdown similar to Australia, in fact a bit more open in terms of recreation.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:38am
  - All_on_Red
    
    The Burwood patients had ‘do not resuscitate’ orders from relatives.
    None of them were put on Ventilators
    They all had other severe underlying conditions.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:50am
    - rangitoto
      
      Going on a ventilator is pretty much a death sentence anyway. By the time you have to go on a ventilator your lungs are already severely damaged. Even if it keeps you alive, your life expectancy will be greatly reduced.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:24am
      - cmm
        
        “Going on a ventilator is pretty much a death sentence anyway”
        For a frail person.
        
        Not too bad for otherwise healthy people.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:32am
    - Unity
      
      I would say they did WITH Covid-19, not because of it.
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:38am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    No Wayne, you have it wrong again.
    
    It appears to be a habit of yours.
    
    The extrapolation of this to 1,000 is not just false, it is an outright lie.
    
    Had NZ simply gone into a caution mode with assistance to the >70s to isolate themselves the only Burwood patients in trouble would have been the Spreydon retirement home crowd – a very small, isolated cell.
    
    Notably, according to today’s figures, 50% of Europe’s casualties are from similar institutions.
    
    Without the house-arrest the funds, resources and facilities would have been available to assist such institutions.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:50am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Narrator: ‘It’s not a coincidence that Wayne also believes Climate Models’
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:35am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Now that made my day…
        “believes in Climate Models….”
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:38am
  - cmm
    
    Errr, no…
    
    They are finding that more people have had the virus with no effect.
    They have not found more dead people.
    Therefore the ratio goes down.
    
    C’mon, you have legal training. You can figure this out.
    
    You are also fully aware that Australia is a Federation and different laws apply in each state. In some states there are lockdowns similar to ours. In other states they are far more open. In general they are far more open than us.
    
    As DPF’s stats showed yesterday, we are not statistically different to Oz (the country closest to us), so clearly our level of lockdown has not done anything.
    
    The best way to do lockdown is a differential lock down based on the risk levels of the people:
    * don’t lock down the younger healthy people
    * lock down the old frail people.
    
    That keeps the economy ticking over, builds up herd immunity, but still keeps the old frail people somewhat “safe”.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:52am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      If you apply New York figures to New Zealand and went for a herd immunity strategy, with the great majority getting the virus, the deaths in New Zealand could have been around 35,000. This is based on the fact that apparently 13% of New Yorkers have had the virus and we know that over 20,000 have died.
      
      Now these figures fit well within the spectrum of deaths that the professional epidemiologists in NZ were saying was the upper end of the potential risk. These being Sir David Skegg, the Director General and Professor Baker. And also those with excellent scientific understanding, Sir Peter Gluckman, Professor Shaun Hendy among others.
      
      All of them were saying we had to go for Level 4 to limit the risk of spread. The strategy appears to have worked, as it also has done in Australia. Yes, there have been some differences in the lockdown, but not as much as people think. Look at how the swimmer was arrested in Sydney. Australia a is not far and away more open than NZ.
      
      Frankly I prefer the advice of the professional epidemiologists over those of the amateur epidemiologists on Kiwiblog. And that is why had National been in power NZ would have also had quite a severe lockdown, though differing in detail (butchers and takeaway coffee open)
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:06am
      - Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
        
        Thank GOD Wayne’s World is no longer in Parliament.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:46am
      - cmm
        
        “If you apply New York figures to New Zealand”
        
        That would be an invalid thing to do because NY is nothing like NZ. For example, we do not have the massive reliance on public transport.
        
        NYC has approx 20x the death rates of the rest of USA. NY, as a whole, something like 15x.
        
        Go pick one of the states more like NZ if you want to make a rational comparison. Then, still, remember that they have been in their flu season and we have not.
        
        “And also those with excellent scientific understanding, Sir Peter Gluckman, Professor Shaun Hendy among others.”
        
        I have not looked at Gluckman’s work and have not seen him chiming in, but I have looked at Hendy’s. The models are broken. To be clear I do not blame that on incompetence. Getting accurate models is very challenging. They should not be the basis of any decision making. This is poor science.
        
        Hendy was pushing for 90 days of Level 4.
        
        As a politician, I cannot believe that you still fail to understand that NSW is not Australia. It is interesting that other states with far less strict lockdowns have done better than NSW (and NZ). I will concede that the numbers are so low that it is hard to get statistical significance. However, because the numbers are so low it shows that this is an over-inflated issue.
        
        “Frankly I prefer the advice of the professional epidemiologists”
        
        Then why listen to Hendy who is a physicist? Why not listed to the epidemiologist from Otago (I forget his name) that said to lift the lockdown immediately.
        
        “And that is why had National been in power NZ would have also had quite a severe lockdown”
        
        Unfortunately I’m getting the feeling that Labour and National differ only in the colour of their artwork.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:46am
      - Cinematic
        
        Wayne, I would have thought that at nearly 3 million infected New Yorkers it’s inevitable the virus will eventually work it’s way through the population.
        
        Of course the rate of infection will slow as the virus finds fewer and fewer people to infect. The health system will cope in NY and other places.
        
        Having accepted that the spread is inevitable what action should one take? Lockdown of practically the entire nation/state? For how long? At what cost?
        
        National may have done the same thing as Jacinda’s posse (we’ll never know) but if they did they’d deserve a kick in the goolies too.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:09am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “nd that is why had National been in power NZ would have also had quite a severe lockdown, though differing in detail (butchers and takeaway coffee open):
        
        Well in that case it would have been equally damaging and equally stupid.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:41am
      - CSadler
        
        I believe the problem here isn’t the national vs the labour approach.
        
        The overriding issue I see is a lack of dynamic response from our “leaders”.
        
        1.The border closing was late and relied on “people being good citizens”. They weren’t and we needed to mave to quarantine rather than self isolation earlier. From the outside looking in it took repeated demands from the outside the war room before any attempt was made to limit the border and then to actually close it (not that we have yet).
        
        2. The lockdown was late and brutal. In hindsight we overdid it. We are unfortunately still failing to react dynamically. The evidence I see holds that we should be easing back to lockdown level 3 either now or more dynamically 2 weeks ago. BUT we are sticking to a self imposed rigid timeline for at least the next three weeks.
        
        I presume this failure to react to new information is due to a lack of courage – it takes courage to lead dynamically because you are exposing yourself to getting things wrong. I have concerns with “following experts” – the experts have by necessity a narrow view of or put another way a particular focus on any issue. That is why strong teams have diversity. If your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
        
        It takes maturity to change your response to an emerging issue. Sometimes you have to go “I got that wrong ” lets go another way. I therefore rate the UK response to Covid19 as mature as they chose a path but had the maturity to accept that from the data that they were gathering they got that wrong (apparently).
        
        I dont think our political climate and our collective maturity allows “our leaders” to make bold decisions and react dynamically as we learn more.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:27am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        It is astounding that the Government has received no advice on the cost effectiveness of the pandemic response or if it has, we have not seen it. It beggars belief that $100 billion to save the lives of a few hundred elderly people is justified. We seem to have suspended the entire approach to rationing interventions to improve health outcomes.
        
        The New Zealand Government could prevent thousands of death each year. But it does not because it is not cost-effective. Examples:
        
        – No national screening for prostate cancer – kills 600 men each year.
        
        – No national screening for breast cancer for women under 45 – 120 women under 45 die of breast cancer each year
        
        Bowel cancer – we only screen people between the ages of 60 – 74 – kills 1,200 people each year
        
        And yet with the corona virus, this whole approach is gone.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:53am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Why would have National done a lockdown which was a panic response from not controlling the borders?
        
        Surely National would have started SCREENING at the borders way before the belated actions of Cindys mob????
        
        They would have had a Minister of Health who actually had some experience and was a REAL Doctor…I refer to the 39th Minister of Health
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:04pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      The best way to do lockdown is a differential lock down based on the risk levels of the people
      
      Yup. You and I have been saying this from the outset. Projected deaths, used to justify halting our economy, is an utterly useless measure unless it apportions the harm over different risk groups, and considers the cost of minimisation/mitigation for each scenario, for each risk group.
      
      It was just too hard, and looking ‘strong’ on the world stage was a much easier, more attractive solution. Carnage, what carnage? Anyway, look at my likes, followers and interview requests!
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:17am
      - cmm
        
        Yup, one-size-fits-all fits nobody.
        
        Hendy’s team are talking about differential modelling. I hope they do it. While that it will likely be too late to influence this pandemic, it might be useful work for the next one.
        
        Unfortunately I don’t think politicians are good at learning.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:49am
    - JackRabbit
      
      cmm for PM!
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:44am
      - cmm
        
        Sorry JR, no can do.
        
        My kids are too old to draw with crayons anymore.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:24am
  - emmess
    
    But what can they do?
    Perhaps New Zealand and Australia can eradicate it and wait for a vaccine.
    But for the rest of the world, the only realistic choice is to isolate the elderly and immunocompromised and flatten the curve as much as possible without while slowly getting to herd immunity. With better treatment (eg hydroxy), the death rate should fall.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:55am
  - gravedodger
    
    I am led to believe a single exposure to the virus is more likely to be repelled by a body.
    Multiple exposures become a greater threat and more likely to overcome even a moderately healthy body.
    
    The Bluff wedding cluster and Boris Johnson could support that.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:18am
    - cmm
      
      Certainly.
      
      I’m not a doctor, but I don’t think you need to “believe” this. From what I have read, and medics I have spoken to, it is clear that it is dose dependent.
      
      If you get 1 dose unit (DU) of a virus, your body’s general defences can whack it on the head quickly. It doesn’t even raise a sweat.
      
      If you get 1000 DUs then your body has to fight harder and, depending on how run down you are, the virus might win, or maybe you’ll just feel the sniffles for a day and you’ll build up some antibodies.
      
      If you get 10,000 DUs your defences are overrun.
      
      That is why they say you need to be closer than 2 metres for 15 minutes or whatever. It takes a considerable time to transfer enough DUs .
      
      Of course people swapping saliva on the dance floor at a wedding can transfer a huge load pretty quickly.
      
      BTW: DU is just an easy to use term I just came up with. I’m sure the experts have a better term.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:58am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “I am led to believe a single exposure to the virus is more likely to be repelled by a body.”
      
      You are correct about exposure. This is where it enters the air passage but never enters the circulation system. It is expelled by the lungs primary defences.
      
      And in the process, the body having sampled the virus, starts generating anti-bodies. The person is not infected, and is not a carrier.
      
      To be infected, it must enter the body tissue and/or circulation systems.
      
      If the virus payload is big enough it can as you say overwhelm even a healthy body. There have been other clusters outside of NZ, weddings, functions, family gatherings, that occurred late 2019, and attended by New Zealanders.
      
      Those clusters got very sick, including the New Zealanders, who came back home in various states of illness or recovery, and seeking medical attention in NZ. I believe that there was at least one death in an overseas cluster.
      
      The symptoms were Covid-19 symptoms but because no-one including doctors here knew of Covid-19 it was diagnosed as a bad flu. Every year there is an annual flu. Every year flu clusters evolve where close contact causes serious infections. Every year, 500 people die in NZ from flu infections. Every year over a million people die worldwide from the flu. It is an annual occurrence.
      
      Clusters are not new.
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/flu-already-circulating-widely-nz
      
      https://surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/Virology/FluAnnRpt/InfluenzaAnn2018.pdf
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:01am
      - rangitoto
        
        One interesting article I read on the UK is that the highest number of cases/postcode is around the Cheltenham racecourse. Obviously the virus is made worse by good looking horses. Has anyone told Winnie? Anyway the real reason appears to be the quarter of a million people that were jammed in at the Cheltenham festival.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    Wayne:
    
    “….Applying Sweden to New Zealand would indicate that around 1,000 would have died…”
    
    It’s winter there and summer here. Should that make a difference?
    
    We COULD end up with “1000 dead” yet, with the numbers coming in a long fat tail after “each lockdown” – yes I expect we will panic and impose another one, possibly two.
    
    A few thousand elderly NZ-ers die every winter anyway. What say we look at ways of prolonging the lives of all of them if cost is no object? I’m sure it could be done.
    
    If we simply made heightened hygeine, hand-washing and reduced contact more of a habit permanently, and vigilance around the elderly, I’m sure we could shift a proportion of elderly contagious respiratory disease deaths every year, out into following years instead. We’ve never thought of this before but the ongoing numbers are arguably not a lot different to this special crisis.
    
    Good points made by others already, too. You’re a typically “wrong on everything” Tory sell-out.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:23am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Well, many Kiwibloggers such as yourself seem to think they know way more than the experts, and that anyone who listens to the experts and takes their advice is a fool.
      
      If that is your view, so be it. As for myself I will, on an issue like this, be guided by the experts. Apparently that makes me a “typically wrong on everything Tory sell-out” . What does that make Boris Johnson, who has put his country into a comprehensive lockdown? Or Scott Morrison?
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:48am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Tough to get a win either way Wayne. Many here like to play the role of antagonist, so whatever comes up they’ll be against it.
        I too prefer to be guided by experts. And experts work on the information they have to hand at the time. It’s pointless claiming an expert got it wrong when new information comes to light subsequent to a decision being made. The ability to know everything and make the correct decisions based on absolute forethought requires a level of omnipotence unavailable to all humans. The “experts” here would do well to consider this at times.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:01am
      - cmm
        
        Wayne, having a sulk is not a valid argument. That is an emotional outburst, not a hard fact data driven argument that you say you follow.
        
        As you well know, nobody can be guided by the experts because all the experts say different things from different vantage points.
        
        For example, the guy from Otago was saying to lift the Level 4 immediately and Hendy was saying to keep going for another 2 months.
        
        Meanwhile economists looking dispassionately at the numbers are often promoting completely different policies (like differential lockdowns).
        
        And it is also clear that many of the experts are not nearly as expert as they should be.
        
        In science, we are supposed to look at the results. Appeals to authority (Dr This, Professor That) are not valid science.
        
        So when you say you are following experts, you really end up cherry picking which experts to follow. That ends up often being an intuitive exercise smokescreened as being data driven.
        
        Just for the record: I am a scientist. I even have some degrees somewhere, but I don’t have them framed and on the wall.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:13am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Which experts? There are too bloomin’ many including medical ones all at variance with each other. I’m not bad at sorting out disparate data sets and the choices are not reasonable. In NZ Otago Uni seems to prefer presenting agreeable results to the awkward position of being different.
        
        How many strains of the virus are there? I have seen ‘expert’ reports of 8. The huge differences in impact in NY and Milan cities speaks for “why”? Are they any guide to Central Otago predictions? Might they match Mangere overcrowding?
        The virus incidence does not appear to be homogeneous by strain, age cohort and close population density. One solution cannot fit all. What do we do next year when it likely revisits for another season?
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:57am
      - MT_Tinman
        
        As for myself I will, on an issue like this, be guided by the experts.
        
        If only that were true Wayne.
        
        What you post is instructed by, not guided by, the experts.
        
        To be guided requires individual thought.
        
        Well, many Kiwibloggers such as yourself seem to think they know way more than the experts
        
        They do Wayne, they do.
        
        Kiwibloggers like PhilBest, cmm, Maggy Wassilieff etc consider the advice of many experts and post, often quoting those experts, considered opinion whereas the experts publish only about their area of expertise (most of the time and unless they are left-wing supporters).
        
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        April 24, 2020 1:35pm
  - CJames
    
    Wayne
    In 3 days’ time, our lockdown won’t be like Australia. They can get haircuts and live a relatively normal life. All NZers will be able to do is order KFC.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:09am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Didn’t the Greens want to bring in laws to prevent people from buying KFC?
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:33am
  - euro2019
    
    Well, Sweden is gone the complete other way as less as possible restrictions, their death rate is within the normal death rate of standard influenza year. They have much lesser death then other lockdown countries like Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, France, UK etc. and others have lesser.
    Sweden will come out on top of things without running their economy completely to the wall.
    Plus now it is known that most deaths have been labelled as CONVID19 death without doing a proper autopsies which would be very important to know. It would make a very big difference if people die on COVID19 or with COVID19.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:33am
    - theoldbloke
      
      Dear Dear Dear
      Can I suggest you do some more research
      Deaths Per Million
      Germany 67
      Switzerland 179
      Sweden 200 (7th Highest in Europe)
      
      Here is a link so you can further your knowledge on the subject…
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
      
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      April 24, 2020 12:15pm
    - Stu2
      
      Sweden has no drop off in daily cases,
      and their daily deaths are rising
      
      Their daily deaths seem to have 5 high values (weekday ?), then two low values (weekend?) but they are trending up. See https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
      
      They have reached 200 dead per million and are rising steadily
      
      The countries with stringent controls eventually arrest daily growth, no sign of that in Sweden
      
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      April 24, 2020 12:27pm
- MCos
  
  The population of NYC is 9mil at most.
  Of these 15,000 minimum died from or had their deaths exacerbated by Covid-19.
  According to the particular antibody test used 79% of NYC population doesn’t yet have immunity.
  They have a lockdown over there and thousands of people are still getting infected.
  
  I suppose one day enough people will become immune for the virus to fizzle out, but a lot of people will die in the meantime.
  
  And the economy is being battered around . . . .
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:02am
  - PhilBest
    
    The lesson that needs to be learned by NYC and old Europe, is one around urban form, density, housing, building age and type, and HEVAC.
    
    NZ is ideally placed to be the object lesson – but we’ve gone and confused it by making it look, to gullible people, as if “lockdown did it”.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:11am
    - MCos
      
      You forget.
      One person at a wedding in Gore resulted in more than ninety infected people, one of whom died.
      One person resulted in more than ninety people connected to Marist College being infected.
      Then there was the stag party.
      Sure a whole lot a people jammed into a subway train is a problem, but so is a busy bar or a rugby maul.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:42am
      - cmm
        
        People at weddings tend to kiss and such, transferring large virus loads quickly. I suppose some tonguing was going on at the stag do too.
        
        But infections don’t matter much, so long as they stay away from frail people. How many from Marist died?
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:17am
      - Dougal10
        
        Were all 90 at the wedding. I think not other wise that would be 100% infection rate.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:22am
      - cmm
        
        Dougal: The cluster is all the people that can be linked back to that infection.
        
        Just like all the 100 were not at the wedding, not all the Marist 100 were in the scrum together.
        
        For example:
        The AirNZ attendant brought it in.
        He snogged a bunch of people on the dance floor or whatever.
        They snogged more people on the dance floor or whatever.
        They went home and interacted closely with other people.
        Those people interacted with others.
        
        All part of the cluster.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:38am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        When the NZ population had not met the virus previously that virulence was to be expected. The eventual death rates here are proven insignificant. They real hazards also are limited to susceptible ill people or elderly.
        Not a reason to separate most Kiwis from regular lives. Us old codgers can look after our own risks–if we can’t, we are probably already locked away.
        There may be pockets of overcrowded housing areas that need attention. A normal healthy person should be tolerated like we do with the flu each season. They take a few days if necessary, get over it, possibly pass it on and eventually it passes.
        What can’t be cured must be endured.
        
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        April 24, 2020 11:07am
      - MCos
        
        Don’t imagine that the forty infected people at the World Hereford Conference were doing too much snogging
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:09pm
      - PhilBest
        
        MCos, I am not forgetting at all. The difference here is that we have about a dozen cases of that, and then nil random untraceable transmission of exponential levels beyond those.
        
        NYC and old Europe have every second bar and restaurant in that category, night after night. Not to mention high density old apartment housing that suffers legionella outbreaks at the best of times. Then they have an exponential explosion of random, untraceable infections from the subway, from shops and supermarkets, etc etc. There is no freakin’ comparison and we’re just lucky for completely different reasons to what the gullible assume.
        
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        April 24, 2020 3:55pm
Tony Stuart

The Ministry of Justice, overseen by Andrew Little, administers the Official Information Act. So who was the “government policy adviser” who proposed this utter affront to openness and transparency? Was it the Minister himself?

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/24/1141603/officials-pitched-oia-suspension-during-lockdown
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April 24, 2020 8:13am
- alex Masterley
  
  What an astonishing policy proposal. An affront to open government.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:17am
  - cmm
    
    I cannot say I am astonished.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:56am
- Yvette
  
  At a time when the Government has been given sweeping powers for the Covid-19 response, officials suggested the Official Information Act be suspended during lockdown – a proposal which led to the Chief Ombudsman stepping in
  “Prior to the lockdown, I was consulted as to whether or not the OIA ought to be subject to suspension or amendment during lockdown because of the inability of agencies to be able to comply and I was horrified at any such suggestion,” Boshier said.
  
  In a written statement, State Services Minister Chris Hipkins said he was unaware of any minister requesting advice on the suspension of the OIA legislation. “I will rigorously oppose any suggestion the OIA should be suspended, and note that no such proposal has ever been put forward.”
  
  The Ministry of Justice, which oversees OIA policy work, also denied any proposal to suspend the legislation
  
  Can information known to the Chief Ombudsman, Peter Boshier, be subject to an Official Information Act question?
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:20am
  - Grant
    
    Weasel words as always from Hipkins:
    “Unaware of any minister requesting this advice….”
    Well of course it was never going to be a minister seeking that advice, but a dollar to a dollop of dodo shit says it was a minister’s flunky that did.
    G
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:21am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Given some of the other legislation coming out of the Minister of Justice’s office – abortion law reform, prisoner voting, hate speech laws – I am not surprised at all that thought was given to shutting down accountability via the OIA. Frankly, there is nothing which I would put beyond the Minister.
      
      The issue may have been raised by a “government policy advisor”, but I have strong suspicions that forensic examination would find the Minister’s fingerprints and DNA on it.
      
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      April 24, 2020 12:12pm
- cmm
  
  We are having hundred-billion-dollar decisions made on potentially sketchy information.
  
  These decisions will impact Kiwis for decades.
  
  This is EXACTLY the time we need the OIA the most.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:55am
- JackRabbit
  
  Is Little vying for the role of Mr. McCready in an upcoming remake of “V for Vendetta”?
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:15am
rangitoto

Random testing for SARS-COV-2 antibodies in New York show that around 2.7 million have already been infected. While this isn’t enough for herd immunity, the good news is that this means the fatality rate is much less than determined from test results for current infections.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-antibody-study-early-results
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April 24, 2020 8:14am
- Cinematic
  
  “much less” is somewhat of an understatement.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:17am
  - fernglas
    
    .05% approximately. If NZ had 10% of the population infected, the death rate would by now be 250. 100% infection would be 2500. Total deaths per year usually around 35,000. So a 7-8% increase in deaths. Perhaps we should just get on with it.
    
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    April 24, 2020 8:36am
    - fernglas
      
      As a disclosure, I should add that both my parents died within the last 3 years. In each case we as a family had to make decisions about their care and whether treatment should be withheld based on what we knew of their wishes and the moral principles they had instilled in us. Had either of them been asked, in this situation, whose future was more important, theirs or their grandchildren’s, I know exactly what the answer would be. And it wouldn’t be shutting down the country.
      
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      April 24, 2020 8:50am
    - cmm
      
      There is a difference between antibody tests and the antigen tests we use here:
      
      Antigens are only present while your body is actively fighting an infection. A person that tests positive is likely to be infectious.
      
      Antibodies are also present after you have been infected. Almost all the people who test positive for antibodies will not be infectious and will be immune to infection.
      
      The vast number of people testing positive for antibodies shows that the death rates, and the rates of developing the disease, are lower than previously estimated.
      
      All those asymptomatic people with antibodies are wasting their time in lockdown.
      
      It would be interesting to see what random antibody tests show in NZ. Unfortunately we have not had any of those yet.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:05am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Don’t let accurate statistics get in the way of a good lockdown!
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:31am
    - MCos
      
      Something not quite right with your figuring.
      NYC has a population of ~8.8mil and thus far has had ~15,000 deaths & counting.
      That equates to about 8500 in NZ.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:55am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Different environments
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:48pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  So 20k/2.7million = about 0.7% of infected dead in New York. Very unsurprising as matches results from Iceland and Hong Kong (leaders in this respect due to better testing). Would amount to about 2 million if went through whole US pop. 30k in NZ
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:55am
  - PhilBest
    
    But the point about herd immunity is that the transmission slows down and around 40% of potential deaths end up spread out over several years or partly eliminated due to vaccines. This is how all the regular new forms of virus work. If we estimated the numbers over several years and used that to justify lockdowns, we’d be in lockdowns forever over the normal flu and cold viruses.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:27am
- Ian Boag
  
  Unfortunately, antibody testing is not up to snuff for widespread use. If it was, the whole world would be over it like a rash. Cheap, easy, quick and tells if you “have not been infected”, “are infected” and “have had it”. …. if only …..
  
  If only the kits gave accurate results …. 🙁
  
  Not hard to look all this stuff up. There is a good summary at https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/analysis/spotlight/covid-19-antibody-tests-face-very-specific-problem
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:14am
  - rangitoto
    
    That info is out of date.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:20am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Could well be I suppose. If you Google “covid antibody test accuracy” you will find any number of current links that say the same thing. The link I posted was a summary put up yesterday. The info seemed pretty current.
      
      About the best anyone says is that current tests might give a fuzzy sort of picture of roughly what proportion has been infected and got over it. No suggestion that the test would be anything like conclusive in an individual case.
      
      Can you point me somewhere that says different? It would be good to know.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:34am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Try this one … UK Financial Times
        https://www.ft.com/content/a93e6b28-3778-4089-8d80-4e6775996aea
        
        a relevant extract …
        
        The National Covid Testing Scientific Advisory Panel in Oxford this week released the results of its evaluation of nine commercial antibody tests being considered by the UK government. None came close to meeting the required specifications for testing individuals for their immune response to Covid-19.
        
        The article is pretty interesting – and a bit depressing.
        
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        April 24, 2020 9:47am
      - rangitoto
        
        The articles I read say the test used in New York has about 20% error rate which is neither here nor there for this purpose. That would say that the number who have been infected is somewhere between 2.2 and 3.2 million.
        
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        April 24, 2020 10:52am
JibberJabber

https://www.nzcpr.com/new-zealands-democratic-vacuum/

The Prime Minister has taken New Zealand down the path to State control so far and so quickly, that there’s now a very real risk that the architecture of a socialist state will underpin the rebuild. As a result, freedoms that have previously been taken for granted are now under serious threat.
There are already calls for tax rates to be hiked up to 70 cents in the dollar, to force those who are “better-off” to pay for Jacinda Ardern’s lockdown. And it won’t be long before a capital gains tax, estate duties and other tax instruments everyone thought were long dead and buried are resurrected as well.

This is a very dangerous time for New Zealand.

The eagerness shown by the Police to enforce draconian measures against people exercising social distancing by walking along a beach, yet ignoring vigilante road blocks by criminal gangs shows just how far they are willing to go in the States lust for total control.
The Cops wonder why no one respects their Uniform anymore, the Police hierarchy and their abject cowardice in enforcing the law against real criminal behaviours, aided and abetted by gutless activists in the Legal fraternity is what is going to lead us into real Anarchy.
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April 24, 2020 8:16am
- Libertarians are right
  
  The Left love pointing out how amazing Jacinda has been with 3 tragedies, March 15, White Island and Covid 19. Whilst she’s been good at posturing, her actual actions have been woeful but the most interesting thing is that in all three occasions, the Police (as an organisation) have misstepped again and again with both incompetence and overreaching on all three occasions. Any National Minister of Police would have been fired for one of those yet Nash has survived through all three so it is on Jacinda too.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:42am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Bro – Sheeple believe Cindy is doing better than God. So they are happy to give up anything that Cindy says is required in the name of being kind. So if Cindy says, everybody pay 70% tax, Sheeple WILL PAY.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:14am
    - igm
      
      The majority would be unemployable lazy state house bludging Leeches . . . the Labour supporters.
      
      12 3
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      April 24, 2020 10:24am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Where will the remaining taxpayers get the money from?
      I welcome my payments from the State as they sustain us but others have to indirectly pay them and they cannot expect to bear unreasonable burdens. Killing off productive enterprise for ideological beliefs or simply ignorance or incompetence doesn’t make Govt.
      Taxpayers have revolted in the past and the present tax regime reflects that. NZ taxes are about the maximum now before serious avoidance set in. People do re-arrange their affairs to avoid taxes if they feel aggrieved by the rates.
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:20am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Surely you’re not suggesting that Jacinda is some sort of crisis-magnet?
    
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    April 24, 2020 11:26am
- Scott
  
  This from the Don brash led group Hobson’s pledge –
  
  “Police Minister finally comments on illegal checkpoints
  Gang members helping iwi stop people breaking lock-down rules at checkpoints finally got a reaction from Police Minister Stuart Nash but only after he was directly questioned by the Epidemic Response Committee on Tuesday.
  
  Nash was asked about community roadblocks by National MP Gerry Brownlee, who said he’d been alerted to an incident where a 70-year-old man couldn’t get past a roadblock to buy some milk and instead was told by a gang member to go home.
  
  Nash said that Illegal checkpoints set up by “ratbags and renegades” without police support will be taken very seriously but “where these checkpoints can operate with the blessing of the police, the local community, the local council, and key stakeholders, I’m quite comfortable for them to happen.”
  
  So Stuart Nash is quite comfortable for Hone and presumably other people with the right Maori ancestry to institute roadblocks. He is quite comfortable that Maori people can pull over New Zealand citizens to check whether they should be allowed into particular parts of the country.
  
  That’s the return of tribalism. Do we want to be split again into tribes? And the police Minister is quite comfortable with what’s happening. Just let that sink in.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:33am
- kowtow
  
  Ryan Bridges interviewd the new commissioner of police on magic talk radio last night.
  
  A very important interview that gets no coverage in the MSM.
  
  Plod refused to acknowledge that anything unlawful was going on and when pushed by Bridge he told us that in 1918 maori were 8 x more affected by Spanish flu…
  
  There you have it folks enforcement of the law is contingent on a particular interpretation of historical events ……..
  
  In respect of these illegal roadblocks two important branches of govt have trashed the constitution . Very dangerous times .
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:38am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “…he told us that in 1918 maori were 8 x more affected by Spanish flu…”
    
    So if white male over 65’s from the local RSA, who are at higher risk from Covid-19, started putting up blockades around known gang headquarters, on the basis that drug trafficking spreads Covid-19, and is on breach of the lock down, would this be condoned by Plod?
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:20am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s not his message on Morning Report today:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018743896
    Perhaps you just heard what you wanted to hear?
    
    1 18
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    April 24, 2020 10:34am
    - kowtow
      
      Judge for yourself.
      
      https://www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2020/04/police-commissioner-andrew-coster-dodges-every-question-when-ask.html
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:17am
      - Scooter
        
        Shameful, he should resign
        
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        April 25, 2020 5:49am
Lee C

Who knows which media are getting the pay-off from the Govt.? I wish to boycott them.
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April 24, 2020 8:33am
- kevn
  
  @Lee… NZ Herald, Stuff and TV1 – 3. The ones who have been solidly begging.
  Stick to blog sites, plenty of good ones out there.
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Actually, that’s not correct. The media who will benefit most from yesterday’s announcement are those who pay to broadcast content, i.e. TVNZ, Mediaworks, RNZ and NZME (radio). Print media got very little yesterday, but their payoff is likely to come in the second tranche of “help”.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018743827/broadcasting-consumer-affairs-minister-discusses-dollar50m-media-bailout-air-nz-refunds
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:15am
    - alex Masterley
      
      The only print media that will benefit are the newspapers, the magazine industry including publishers, printers, photographers, etc etc is too stuffed to be rescusitated.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:27am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  All of them!!! They will all now become CBS – Cindy Broadcasting Services and CNN – Cindy News Network.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:15am
- JibberJabber
  
  All of them.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:19am
Tarquin North

I’m sure the local supermarket is ripping me off. A box of Export doesn’t seem to go anywhere near as far as it used to.
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April 24, 2020 8:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  My consumption has more than doubled, same with whisky. Jacinda’s to blame to
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:56am
igm

Notice the latest Ardern sycophantic police commissioner even follows her diction; e.g., we have a “Communidy”!
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April 24, 2020 8:37am
I remember when

Are we about to see the decimation of the 65+ work force.
Many will ponder whether to accept the risk covid-19 may pose and retire. Equally, many will not have the choice of making that decision themselves. Will firms accept workers who may suddenly become unavailable if covid-19 returns.
Medical professionals and teachers may rethink their career direction especially those in this age group. Do we have enough backup personal at present if this happens immediately?
Will doctors and hospitals find that many staff will want to control when they return to work?
Teaching my find it has an even bigger predicament and have considerable support by parents for the stance.
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April 24, 2020 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  As many of our new graduates and recently qualified apprentices wont be heading off to Europe/Asia/America in the near future, they are going to be in our little job market.
  
  Might be time for some of the old nags to head out to their retirement pastures.
  
  (Hubby & I got off the work treadmill some years before our gold-cards arrived… can’t say either of us have pined for yet another meeting/report to write/deadline to meet/hearing to attend, etc….)
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:13am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Fine for those who can afford to. Many 65+ keep working because they want something to occupy them, and because their expenses would not be covered by Super unless they became hermetic in their approach to life.
    
    Or, like quite a few I know, late starter parents who are still supporting children through study and into paid employment. Super just does not cover those sort of costs.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:25am
  - gravedodger
    
    Good on you both Maggie, swmbo and self took the gap prior to sixty and have no regrets.
    Almost twenty years of rewarding and productive contribution to society for no recompense and again no regrets.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:31am
- JackRabbit
  
  And if the 65+ workforce was to be decimated out of fear, we lose a lot of competence and wisdom.
  
  Some overseas cultures have people contributing to society right up to the time of death.
  
  https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/blue-zones#section1
  
  https://www.organicauthority.com/energetic-health/wisdom-from-the-blue-zones-how-you-can-live-to-be-100
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:25am
Pete George

A Colmar Brunton poll was done from 3-5 April after the Level 4 lockdown had started, and another has been done from 20-21 April, after the move to Level 3 lockdown was announced on Monday.

How much do you approve or disapprove of how your Government is responding to the Covid-19 pandemic?

– Strongly approve 68% (up from 55%)
– Somewhat approve 19% (down from 29%)
– Total approve 87% (up from 84%)
– Somewhat disapprove 5% (down from 6%
– Strongly disapprove 3% (no change)
– Total disapprove 8% (down from 9%)
– Neither approve nor disapprove 4% (down from 6%)
– Don’t know 1% (up from 0)

Colmar Brunton, Margin of error +/- 4%
The poll was conducted via 601 online interviews with New Zealanders over the age of 18 between April 20 and 21.

Stuff: The Government’s Covid-19 lockdown measures have overwhelming public support, according to a poll
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April 24, 2020 8:40am
- Lee C
  
  My wife would agree with those premises.
  
  I wouldn’t.
  
  The ‘silent majority’ – I wonder if they are called that for a reason?
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:52am
- Inandout
  
  Colmar will be in on the $50 million lolly scramble for the media. Biased?
  
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  April 24, 2020 8:57am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Curia too?
    
    10 7
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    April 24, 2020 9:00am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Curia knows from their internal polling National is dog tucker.
      
      4 14
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      April 24, 2020 9:18am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Yeah, why did David Farrar cover O’Connor’s and Bayly’s facebook posts but not Bridges’…
        
        5 29
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        April 24, 2020 9:36am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. Such findings make a joke of the people who bang on about us taking the wrong approach, that we should be doing the herd immunity business. They could be right in the long run, maybe a few old people dead is fine, if it means we don’t destroy our economy.
  But no leader is willing to do it. Apart from the swedes, in the world. No politician of any party is interested in doing it here. And the public agree with our current policy by a whopping 87%. So it a pointless argument, because it is decision that is political and moral, not one based on a spreadsheet and an equation, where on one side we put a value of a death and then work out how much we lose. No PM in New Zealand would be happy to have deaths on their watch. We simply aren’t built that way. We are cautious. In fact I think the problem we will have in the future is people won’t want to come out of lock down. Certainly from what I see on social media a lot of parents are already refusing to send their kids to school.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:02am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Dozens of New Zealanders are now dying due to this unnecessarily extreme lockdown. & many more will die from the economy being Left in Cinders ??
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:15am
    - bruceavon
      
      As I have pointed out before National would have had an even more extreme lockdown. started earlier, quarantines. No real difference.
      
      1 13
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      April 24, 2020 9:22am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Earlier border closing: good.
        Quarantine from the start: good.
        
        Then allowing anyone who can trade/work while maintaining social distancing to keep doing so.
        
        That should have been the plan.
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:55pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      This is probably correct, world wide we are seeing a significant spike in mortality even with all COVID-19 deaths excluded. Although preliminary, this appears to be because these countries have suspended normal medical procedures to prepare for virus affected patients, and the lack of attention is killing many who would otherwise survive at least for a time longer.
      
      I’d bet the same effect is happening in NZ, heart and cancer patients are simply not being seen and treated at normal rates, and our death rates will at some point reflect that. This impact *may* be larger than the estimated lives saved from the virus by these measures.
      
      There’s this thing called “the Law of Unintended Consequences…”
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:30am
  - Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
    
    Those who self-support the lockdown will emerge one day from their cowardice to find… the Chinese have walked in and taken over everything.
    
    Sad.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:17am
    - bruceavon
      
      you mean that almost 90% of the population?
      
      2 6
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      April 24, 2020 9:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    The poll outcomes are an illustration of wall to wall brainwashing, not intelligent choices by a properly informed population.
    
    Possibly the only country informing their population properly, is Sweden.
    
    Mortality from all causes, year on year.
    
    Mortality from normal flu season.
    
    ICU beds still to spare.
    
    You can bet they are also being told about asymptomatic spread and the progress towards herd immunity. (The Herald finally published something on asymptomatic infection rates yesterday – 1 month late! – what’s their agenda, I wonder?)
    
    And the atypical nature of victims in “death clusters” – i.e. Rest Home residents, and the most incapacitated ones at that.
    
    What also needs to be known: deaths “because of lockdown” – excess heart attacks, strokes, suicides, etc.
    
    Projected future deaths from economic losses.
    
    A government “good at communication” could “prove the case” the other way if they wanted to. They don’t want to.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:36am
  - amospicton
    
    Bruce, it’s a political decision yes but the key argument against is that it is not moral. The lockdown is doing much more harm than good to society by almost any measure. That is not moral – it is virtue signalling immorality.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:16am
  - Cinematic
    
    It’s amusing some think NZ can avoid the inevitable. If you’re hanging your hat on a vaccine I suggest you don’t hold your breath.
    
    NZ will get it’s fair share of covid-19. At what cost?
    
    A week ago one of the commenters here bravely pointed out his tumour tripled in size over 5 weeks. People aren’t going to their doctors (evidenced by medical practices going under).
    
    How many detectable undiagnosed tumours have tripled in size over the last 5 weeks in NZ? Can someone model that for us please? I’m guessing it’d be a scary big number.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:23am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yep bro!! Cindy rocks! Labour is going to win with 87% votes. Cindy4ever.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:16am
- alloytoo
  
  I notice they don’t ask if the government should have closed the borders hard in January and avoided lockdown altogether?
  
  or if she should have waited so long to initiate lockdown because she didn’t want to cancel March 15?
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:20am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Based on the misleading media reports that they rely on for information.
  
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  April 24, 2020 7:06pm
MT_Tinman

Dr Newman tells you pretty much everything I’ve been saying since February

The difference being she tells it better and in a far more detailed and factual way.
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April 24, 2020 8:40am
Dafixeruppa

This response from Simon bridges to the media attack on him is worth a repost.
https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/
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April 24, 2020 8:48am
- Inandout
  
  Daf, I suspect Soper has smelled the air and decided National may sneak over the line in September. A job may await the old tusker.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:01am
  - niggly
    
    Hmmm, Soper’s response is interesting, basically what he is saying aligns with both a National (as written) point of view and a NZF point of view (not mentioned in the quote).
    
    Then other thing is although lefties and the MSM pilled on Simon Bridges in the last couple of days, Simon’s messaging on those important issues he raised (in his FB post) aligns with National’s messaging to relax the lockdown, the same message Winston Peters was talking about last week too (last week Winston reckoned the lockdown was meant to have ended on Monday (20th)).
    
    Has NZF wised up to the way Labour have sidelined them during the lockdown, and via Barry Soper are not “attacking” National because NZF don’t want to be associated too much with Labour come the election campaign (because of Labour’s mishandling the need to minimise the economic impact on society and hundreds of thousands of out of work NZ’ers)?
    
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    April 24, 2020 11:24am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  That was read by two people – you and me.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:21am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I also received Bridges’ email last night. It may even be worthy of a “guest post” by DPF.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:21am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Why didn’t he just say that in the first place?
    
    I’ll tell you why, because he has poor political instincts and could only come up with this after reflecting on the criticism.
    
    Not a natural leader.
    
    2 32
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    April 24, 2020 9:44am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The woman who runs homepaddock is a known right-wing stirrer.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:42am
  - Batman
    
    As opposed to the left wing stirrers who run The Stranded and TDB? Or pundit, or the spinoff, if you want some mainstream commercial blogging.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:49am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      I am referencing Paula Bennett’s tweet yesterday describing Bridges leadership woes being invented by a “leftie stirrer”.
      
      If it’s good enough for her to describe anti-National Party bloggers as stirrers then it’s good enough to describe anti-Labour Party bloggers as stirrers too.
      
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      April 24, 2020 9:58am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Explaining is losing Martin, and to use the words of a past TV show – you are the biggest loser!
        
        4 1
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        April 24, 2020 1:12pm
  - MrTips
    
    Whereas “Martin Williams” is a greasy soup ladle being stirred by a Fraser House Orc.
    
    28 0
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    April 24, 2020 9:56am
  - mark15
    
    The woman who runs Martin Williams is a known liar.
    
    22 0
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    April 24, 2020 10:21am
  - Michael NZ
    
    like you but different?
    
    6 0
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    April 24, 2020 10:52am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Ele Ludemann makes no secret of her political leanings, and it’s well known that for many years, she was the Southern Regional Chair of the National Party, and a party Board member. She’s also a friend, does a huge amount of work in her community, and with her husband, runs a successful farming operation.
    
    What’s your claim to fame Martin?
    
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    April 24, 2020 1:11pm
    - Hollyfield
      
      She is also unfailingly polite and respectful, as well as intelligent and gracious. Unlike Martin, from the evidence of his comment above, she would never discount someone just because they have an opinion different to her own.
      
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      April 24, 2020 1:23pm
lastmanstanding

The lame attempt by the Left to destabilise the Nats and Simon Bridges was very transparent. They know that in a very short time the sheeple are going to turn on them. When unemployment hits 20% plus and still rising when the businesses they usual frequent like their favourite coffee shop bar and restaurant all have the ‘Gone out of Business” sign on the front door when they or family and friends are out of work and the reality that the Government

1. Wasnt prepared.
2. Delayed closing the border.
3. Over reacted in shutting down businesses that should have kept open safely.
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April 24, 2020 8:50am
- fernglas
  
  But if the virus scarcely exists, what difference would 1 and 2 have made?
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:03am
  - RightNow
    
    Funny question. It looks like the virus is something like 50x more prevalent in the population than previously thought.
    I accept the Government made decisions based on the data they believed, but not sealing the border properly and early reeks of incompetence.
    
    28 1
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    April 24, 2020 9:12am
  - PhilBest
    
    That is a very interesting question, Fernglas. Yes overseas testing is revealing potentially orders of magnitude more people contracting the virus and remaining asymptomatic. So this could be true of NZ – OR – there could be another explanation that also fits with the extremely low death rate here (which is nothing to do with the freakin’ lockdown!)
    
    That is, in the NZ summer environment, this virus does not survive as long and therefore ends up infecting a whole lot less people. Because infection never goes anything like exponential, and infection almost never even goes beyond “first hand contacts”. And these were virtually ALL from “people contracting it overseas and bringing it in”.
    
    It remains to be seen what the NZ winter environment is like (and the Aussie one too, if this hypothesis is valid there also) for virus survival and infection rate. Whatever the explanation is, the lockdown was premature and needlessly destructive. My biggest fear is “needing to do it again” when we didn’t need to do it the first time. To what degree will the economic carnage be multiplied by a repeat? Possibly a much longer one, or more than one repeat?
    
    I wish I could get Ashley Bloomfield by the scruff of the neck and ask him whether he and HIS circle of experts even talk about this stuff. Bloomfield has publicly waved away the “large number of asymptomatic infections” hypothesis for NZ. But he can’t have this both ways – surely he understands environmental luck and doesn’t kid himself that we fixed this with the world’s best health-system response or something??? And does he understand the implications for a potential winter flu-season “REAL WAVE” of infections?
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:51am
- Classic Liberal
  
  If you’re, sadly, going out of business, please make the sign read “‘Gone out of Business – Thanks to Jacinda!”
  
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  April 24, 2020 1:11pm
Lee C

There is going to be a very heavy price to pay for this.
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April 24, 2020 8:53am
- Inandout
  
  Yes Lee, starting here:
  ‘Total annual tourism expenditure is $40.9 billion – $112 million per day’.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:04am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    At the ERC last week, the CEO of the Tourism Industry Assn said they are expecting revenue to fall by $2 billion per month, for at least the next six months, and that more than 100,000 jobs are likely to be lost.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:23am
    - Steve James
      
      $2 billion per month over winter means three times that from October through next summer doesn’t it?
      
      8 0
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      April 24, 2020 9:29am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Now Robbing Robo is tempting Sheeple with a handout of $1500 per adult and $500 per children. Even my highly educated and employed friends are getting tempted by this handout and already planning for 70′ TV and iPhones….. They are saying Cindy is not that bad….Game over for National for sure.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:23am
  - Martin Williams
    
    It should be means tested. No one who is mean gets it.
    
    4 25
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    April 24, 2020 9:47am
    - mark15
      
      Is that a joke?
      
      6 0
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      April 24, 2020 10:22am
    - Michael NZ
      
      so all labour and green voters won’t get it?
      
      12 0
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      April 24, 2020 10:54am
  - Biscuit
    
    Me and the one I share a cot with were thinking of how we might spend ‘our’ $3,000 should that occur.
    
    No need of a 70′ TV (70 FEET, SCS? Really? Heh…) or the new IPhoneRipOff here.
    Can’t spend it on travel in the foreseeable future (well, not overseas).
    
    So what to do?
    
    I suggested we put it aside for a North Korean-style ginormous golden statue of St Jacinda in front of The Beehive.
    
    I got told to
    a) Stop shagging about
    b) Feed the cat (again)
    c) Prepare brunch
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:54am
  - notreadyet
    
    Problem is if that money is handed out it need to be spent be in/on NZ, not TVs and the like from china
    
    4 0
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    April 24, 2020 11:36am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I see Bluff oysters are back on sale!
      
      3 0
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      April 24, 2020 6:24pm
I remember when

Wonder if Willie Jackson told Ngai Tahu “that extending the lockdown was not going to hurt or destroy anybody”.
Great the 300+ Ngai Tahu are going to lay off and businesses they have closed is “not going to hurt”.
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April 24, 2020 8:59am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Free Willie, the employment minister (what a joke) will find jobs for his bros in his ministry.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:23am
- kowtow
  
  Funny how a “charity” can be hit so heavily by a down turn in tourism…….
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:24am
- Clyde
  
  Yes, Ngai Tahu are a charity and don’t pay tax. Amazing that up until they bought Shotover Jet for example, this was a thriving business that made a decent profit, employed a pile of people and PAID TAX. When the business went maori nothing changed other than the profits went through the roof. Where did the additional profits go? Not a hard question to answer.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:55am
igm

Be interesting to watch the attendances at mosques for the next month. Christians were banned from churches for Easter, let’s see if islamists are banned from gatherings during rumidum.
Our new sycophant Com Police allows anyone to carry out road blocks, of which PTPM agrees, so guarantee mosques will be full with impunity.

[Mod: It’s Ramadan. If you’re going to make inferences against a religious group, at least have the decency to spell it right.]
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April 24, 2020 9:00am
- gravedodger
  
  As one appalled by “Poverdy”, “Lidderly” and all the other mangling of our language, that little reaction seems rather petty.
  That said have a really nice day Mod.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:38am
  - Batman
    
    Intentional misspellings will get moderated. The pettiness comes from those who think it’s funny or clever.
    
    Oh and by the way, when you language police the PMs very NZ accent, you’re simply the right wing version of the lefty losers who do it to Simon Bridges and John Key.
    
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    April 24, 2020 9:52am
- PhilBest
  
  A truck bomber was fortunately intercepted on his way to an attempt on the Hoover Dam, for Ram-a-Dam season…
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:17am
- Michael NZ
  
  good point mod.
  is it one law for the muslims and their ramadan and another for the wicked white pale xtians easter?
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:56am
- oldfella
  
  And according to someone who lives nearby, the Tauranga Sikh temple has been operating pretty much as normal right through the lockdown. And the cops have been called out several times when locals reported it. Go figure…
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:01am
euro2019

It is amazing that this coalition government were able to ruin an entire country and drive the economy to the wall within their first term.
And most of the people can’t see thru them at all and as long as there is tons of government money to keep the “voters” happy at home then we have to suffer for another term disasters.
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April 24, 2020 9:02am
- Prince
  
  It is an astonishing record:
  – Total failure of Kiwibuild.
  – Record demand at Foodbanks.
  – Record Suicide numbers.
  – Record homelessness.
  – Record unemployment, business closures.
  – No Treaty settlements in the term of this Govt.
  – $B on ‘Regional Development’. No results
  – $M on first year students. No results.
  – Massive deficit.
  – Pike River. Lots of publicity. No results.
  – Vigilante roadblocks ‘approved’ by Police.
  
  Never mind. Tomorrow morning 6am the shutters will be clicking at Premier House at our PM poses with Clark and Neve, serious face on. The fluff pieces will fill our ‘media’.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:56am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Record number of strikes in first year.
    Most of these happened BEFORE Covid 19
    but this CoL will try to blame it all on a disease.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:16am
  - oldfella
    
    And NZ has now backtracked on funding Keytruda because the country can’t afford it. Really? How many Kiwis will die because of that heartless (unkind?) decision. Maybe someone should ask Cindy. (Yeah, right…).
    I bet we could fund it if we concentrated on the living and stopped further funding of the Pike River recovery. Or pulled money out of the Shane Jone’s election slush fund.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/414885/pharmac-back-tracks-on-plan-to-fund-lung-cancer-drug-keytruda
    
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    April 24, 2020 11:08am
Komata

Lee C

Re: ‘There is going to be a very heavy price to pay for this’.

Agreed, but WHO is going to pay?

The media certainly won’t be, and neither will the ‘St. Jacinda’ sheeples – at least not immediately.

And as the farmers and small-business owners are the ‘Enemy’, I guess it will ultimately be them.

Not hopeful is it?
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April 24, 2020 9:06am
Maggy Wassilieff

RNZ is still running with a hit job on Simon Bridges…

Jane Patterson writes that Phones were running hot in the National Party Caucus…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/415016/simon-bridges-leadership-questioned-after-missteps

Talking up a possible coup… with not the slightest scrap of evidence produced.
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April 24, 2020 9:20am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yes Maggy, read that crap and ran around to get the vomit bucket. There is an orchestrated hit job (even Hooten has written a piece) on Simon Bridges all of a sudden. I wonder why?
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:25am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Water is circling the drain.
    
    2 26
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    April 24, 2020 9:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Ms Patterson has been interviewing herself again.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:26am
- Don Beckett
  
  Simon Bridges should sue their arses – that is slander and total misrepresentation.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:39am
- Prince
  
  Sorry I missed that hit job on Bridges, I was busy reading about Nurse Jenny’s love fest with J.
  
  Hard to keep up with all the political journalism these days.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:47am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Jen Jenny with her new found fame used her 15 seconds on TV to say – “Jacinda is her hero”. That instantly translated to 10,000 extra votes from the 19 year luvvies.
    
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    April 24, 2020 12:49pm
- Lee C
  
  Yes Maggy New Zealand Journalism really is the best that money can buy.
  
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  April 24, 2020 9:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  So when a reporter hears rumours of leadership ructions, should she ignore them until someone is prepared to comment on the record? I’m not sure journalism, or politics, works that way.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:24am
  - marcw
    
    So when a reporter ~~hears~~ starts rumours of leadership ructions, should she ~~ignore~~ investigate them until ~~someone~~ the rumour maker is prepared to comment on the record?
    
    Fixed it for you Mike.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:35am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    AAAHH but we have history to look at.
    The last time the CoL was in trouble for their performance, a rumor was thrown out there, suggesting a leadership challenge in National.
    This ran for many months in the MSM. Turned out to be fake news.
    Looking more and more like fake news again.
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:38am
  - Lee C
    
    Milky I usually tolerate your intercessions because you have role to play, but that last question was pure bullshit.
    
    The leader of the Opposition does his job, based on hard data and in response to genuine concerns from people who directly connected with him, only to get a facebook bot-attack, and death-threat, coupled with media articles from outlets now in receipt of Government money who have an investment in neutralising any criticism of them, based purely on innuendo and you call it journalism.
    
    What planet are you on?
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:39am
    - Michael NZ
      
      lee C y
      you are too polite for your own good.
      
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      April 24, 2020 10:59am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      What question?
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:06am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Having memory problems?
        The one you asked in your 10:24 am post.
        
        12 2
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        April 24, 2020 11:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ah, I thought you meant a question in the linked article.
        Nothing wrong with my question, of course. It’s pretty standard fare for journalists to report on leadership tensions when parties are out of office. Just check reports from 2008 to 2017 for speculation about the futures of Phil Goff, David Cunliffe, David Shearer, and Andrew Little.
        I don’t think anyone could seriously claim that the National caucus is 100% committed to the current leadership.
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:11pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    When a reporter sees rumours about a leadership spill being touted on Twitter by known political hacks (including, but not exclusive to Matthew Hooton, Neale Jones, Clint Smith, David Cormack, Cameron Slater), the reporter should tread carefully. Their track record of predicting leadership coups is statistically poor.
    
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    April 24, 2020 1:19pm
artemisia

Helicopter cash. Either Minister Robertson made a huge mistake in saying it was being considered in next month’s budget. Or it has already been decided on.

And if decided on, it will be tricky to target recipients if it’s not everyone. Though they do now have bank details for a lot of the population, including children, through WINZ, IRD and wage subsidy for sole traders.

So – it has been decided and will be for everyone. The only remaining question – underpromise/ overdeliver or vv.
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April 24, 2020 9:20am
- niggly
  
  Labour/Robbo/Ardern … helicopter money …. sigh!
  
  I heard Stephen Joyce with Peter Williams yesterday, Joyce emphasised the need for small-medium businesses to be given govt support in order to survive, restart and retain jobs for people. Otherwise they won’t be coming back.
  
  Apart from Labour offering the wage subsidy (which helps in some ways) no other useful assistance has been given (meanwhile millions are diverted to various other causes including the MSM “infrastructure” yesterday).
  
  Seems Labour don’t care about small-medium businesses and their Kiwi employees? Otherwise how else to explain Labour being tone deaf to the very real and stressful concerns of thousands of hardworking everyday NZ’ers?
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:38am
Manolo

Guilty! The role of the totalitarian Chinese Communist Party in the Wuhan virus cover-up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skuFD0LVIJU&bpctr=1587675912
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April 24, 2020 9:29am
Steve James

Hey moderators, time to set me free don’t you think? It’s been a year.
Cheers
Steve
[Moderators are in the dark on this Steve. You can obviously still post. Suggest you email the blog editor – address at bottom of blog page.- Mod.]
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April 24, 2020 9:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

The question Jacinda and her mates need to address is whether they have kept to their side of the bargain.

The folks in NZ have kept to their side by going into lockdown and cutting out virus transmission.

Have Jacinda and the CoL safeguarded our economy, our welfare, our children’s education/training, and protected our borders….

or have Jacinda and the CoL stuffed our economy, stuffed our children’s future, and created an even larger pool of welfare recipients?
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April 24, 2020 9:32am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Jacinda promised when we went in that they would take individual regions into account and allow them out early if they were Covid free. There are regions that satisfy this. Why has this not happened? I’m emailing my local (Labour) MP to ask for evidence that he’s advocated on our behalf. I want to know why we haven’t been allowed out when we have no risk.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:02am
  - PhilBest
    
    I suspect that there are parts of “remoter NZ” where the local cops are decent enough to just live and let live….
    
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    April 24, 2020 10:19am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Midcentral health has had no community transmission and just 31 cases all up. The only current cases are two 70 year olds that came in from the UK on 31 March. With non-inept tracing of those two mid central should be completely reopened by now with closed borders. Wairarapa, Wanganui, Lakes, West Coast, Tairawhiti, Taranaki and maybe even Hutt Valley (although that might be too difficult) or Nelson could all be reopened if contact tracing was targeted to those areas. Jacinda promised she would look into this. Why has nothing been done?
      
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      April 24, 2020 11:31am
      - Tall Man
        
        She looked, didn’t see a mirror or anything else of interest and forgot what she was doing looking there in the first place.
        
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        April 24, 2020 12:00pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Whanganui reported a case of a man in his 20’s last week, with no apparent source for the infection.
        
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        April 24, 2020 1:20pm
  - alwyn
    
    “Jacinda promised when we went in ……. ”
    Jacinda promised lots of things. In fact she promised anything she thought might get her a headline.
    Remember how she was going to “eliminate” Convid 19?
    Well that got her big headlines world wide didn’t it?
    And now it turns out it was b**s. “Eliminate” doesn’t mean Eliminate at all.
    
    Look at what she is saying today, as reported in The Herald.
    “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said New Zealand will continue to pursue its goal of elimination with a strategy that differs from most other countries.
    “Success doesn’t mean zero Covid-19 cases. It means zero tolerance, which means that as soon as we know we have a case, we go in straight away, we’re testing around that person, we’re isolating them […] we do our interviews and contact trace to find all the people who have been in contact with them while they may have passed it on, and we ask them to isolate. That’s how we keep stamping out Covid cases.”
    
    In other words it means doing exactly what every other country in the world is doing, but they aren’t completely wrecking their economies while they do it.
    Still, the rest of the world won’t notice the flip flop. They will still be raving about great she is and how privileged we are to be able to worship at her feet.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327277
    
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    April 24, 2020 6:19pm
RW Capitalist

I hear on the AMshow…some economist or other.
Saying the govt. will audit the wage subsidies payments. To see if certain businesses “needed” it or not.
Surely if they met the criteria that the Govt. set, then they qualified to receive it?
This would be Indian giving, would it not.
Give with one hand, to get the political publicity, take back with the other hand, too bribe someone else with the same money.
If I drop a few coins in the street beggar’s hat, I can’t then go and take it back, when I get to the coffee shop and realize I don’t have enough for my Latte.
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April 24, 2020 9:54am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Not sure the latte analogy applies, but ask yourself this: If you dropped a few coins in the street beggar’s hat, then saw him getting into his late-model Mercedes, would you want your money back?
  
  I mentioned to my sister, who applied for and received much-need wage subsidies for her business that employs 15 people and had revenue drop to a third virtually overnight, that there would probably be a lot of new boats in the marina next summer.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:06am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Lodden, see my comment below. You wouldn’t see your sister as a criminal if her business picked up faster than expected.
    
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    April 24, 2020 1:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  I’ve seen a couple of clients on the list that will struggle to survive any audit of eligibility plus a couple of companies that we have an association with that would never comply without significant accounting adjustment.
  
  They will be surprised I think in the near future.
  
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  April 24, 2020 12:02pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Don’t assume people are dishonest.
  
  There was a huge panic at the start, both with clients cancelling and small businesses being told to apply sooner rather than later.
  
  Some small business owners had every reason to expect their business would disappear for the lockdown and longer, because many clients cancelled in the first weeks of panic.
  
  Some may find that clients do come back, and some will earn more than expected.
  
  WINZ urgently needs to enable people who received the subsidy to say ‘hey, things are better than expected, how can I repay all or some of the subsidy?’
  
  I hope that will be seen as honesty and people not be made to look like criminals!
  
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  April 24, 2020 1:36pm
Poppa

I have been wondering……what are all of the dogs going to do once their owners get back to work??

The ones that still have jobs I mean
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April 24, 2020 9:55am
- Ruahine
  
  There will likely be a lot less dog poop on the footpaths.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:06am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Start a dog walking business, you’ll make a fortune.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:13am
- Fletch
  
  The dogs who still have jobs?
  
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  April 24, 2020 12:10pm
Loddenthinks

I’m very sorry to have to post this here, I realise it will upset many thinking readers and if you do feel the urge to follow the link, both a strong constitution and the presence of a sick bucket are recommended.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-leadership-coronavirus/610237/

It was sent to me by a close relative living in the US, I think she genuinely meant it as a gift, bless her. As hagiographies go, this one’s right up there. Like most paeans, it’s full of lies and half-truths, and there’s a bit of a clue to the author’s mindset, and that of The Atlantic, a once-proud newspaper that has completely abandoned its roots, with the inserts throughout criticising Trump.

For example:
David Frum: Trump’s two horrifying plans for dealing with the coronavirus
Read: All the president’s lies about the coronavirus
George Packer: We are living in a failed state

This is how the world (well most of it) sees St Jacinda.
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April 24, 2020 10:03am
- Tall Man
  
  Just like water down a plug hole, the general intellect of the world is spiraling downwards.
  
  A guy from Otago put out a paper some time ago predicting this as “smarter” parents were having fewer children and “slower” ones were breeding like flies.
  
  I think that world is already here. As I said the other day, listening to the anti Simon callers on Magic, it seemed the prerequisite to support labour was utter stupidity.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:25am
- alwyn
  
  I read that, and gagged when I saw this line.
  “Since March, New Zealand has been unique in staking out a national goal of not just flattening the curve of coronavirus cases, as most other countries have aimed to do, but eliminating the virus altogether. And it is on track to do it.”
  Well our PTPM got all the publicity out of this but she has since done a flip-flop.
  Have a look at what I posted about 20 comments before this.
  Short version? When I said “Eliminate” I didn’t really mean “eliminate” is what she is now saying.
  Tell your relative that.
  
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  April 24, 2020 6:27pm
MrLovebucket

Seems like we need a decent set of tax cuts in the upcoming budget rather than messing around with subsidies or incentive payments.
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April 24, 2020 10:05am
- Tall Man
  
  I agree.
  
  The April 7th terminal tax payments plus the 7th May provisional payments have made us wince and then throw in gst at the end of this month and we have taken a hit. Normally cash flow assists here but obviously that is down a tad so we will end up breaking an investment to cover the shortfall.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:54am
Tall Man

I understand that there is a flight being sent from Thailand to NZ to collect a few Thai Nationals who have been stranded here.

The flight will also have a few passengers who will be quarantined at our expense for at least 2 weeks in a nice hotel in Auckland with meals provided.

I think this is wrong. These people are not at risk where they are if they remain locked down so why should we still be allowing them entry.
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April 24, 2020 10:07am
- Tall Man
  
  Jeez downticker, nice to see you’re free and easy with other people’s money.
  
  Some of these arriving are not returning, they are coming then going back after a period of time.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:55am
  - lifesgood
    
    This is a point I made yesterday. Expats should not be allowed to return at this time. 3 of the 6 cases two days ago were NZers returning. If you choose to LIVE overseas you should not be allowed to return and suck up our money and resources because it feels like a better option. If you truly want to visit home, as a citizen, feel free once this is all over.
    
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    April 24, 2020 12:31pm
RW Capitalist

Considering the shortage and late run out of the flu vaccine, is the next epidemic…the common flu?
How may will be allowed to die of this?
meningitis……………2
Measles (Samoa)….80
Covid19……………….16 (so far)
Flu………………………???
As an aside, does it appear to anyone else, that the “spread” of covid 19…has been given more importance than those that actually died of it?
Govt. taking great pleasure in telling us how few cases they have discovered, while barely raising an eyebrow as to how many have actually DIED.
Their reaction/ planning has NEVER focused of protecting the vulnerable in NZ (in Covid 19’s case) the elderly.
They haven’t tested 2% of the population (over 60’s make up 14%) we had the news from Italy, that the elderly were the predominant victims (in February)
The Minister of health, actually said on TV, “They will not be focusing testing on the elderly.
Since this is a direct assault on the elderly, will Grey Power be focusing their support away from CoL?
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April 24, 2020 10:09am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Govt.’s response to another death.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
  While talking with great pride about the number of cases.
  This does not a apply to unemployment, that’s way worse, already 30000 jobs bite the dust and L4 isn’t over yet.
  Robertson talks about 1% of the population
  When did we ever measure unemployment against the total population?
  Closer to 2.5% of the workforce.
  Push unemployment closer to 7%…already.
  
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  April 24, 2020 1:13pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Flu vaccine shortages aren’t that bad, ultimately enough doses will be available, just a bit slower. managed to get one myself a couple of days ago after missing the second round that my local practice had. It was a “drive through” operation in a covered carpark. In a brief conversation the nurses thought that they would have enough doses but supplies were steady rather than voluminous and it might take a few more weeks at least to satisfy demand.
  
  Just FWIW
  
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  April 24, 2020 1:19pm
fernglas

Interesting stuff on the Trump briefing about the effect of sunlight, higher temperatures and humidity on the half life of the virus; in a nutshell, summer weather is a great way to reduce the half-life. The point is that NZ has yet to go into winter, and has had a pretty mild autumn, so I wouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back too quickly
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April 24, 2020 10:12am
- PhilBest
  
  I’ve been banging on about this angle for NZ’s luck for a while.
  
  So it’s come into the Trump briefing now? Ironic given sneering Kiwi attitudes. Trust Trump to give the people the good news at the right time. If our “experts” gave us the good news at the right time it would have shown lockdown unnecessary.
  
  The saying “sunlight is the best disinfectant” is actually not just a figure of speech.
  
  UV is actually the most important factor and NZ’s is famously high. This has to be one of many reasons why our death toll was never going to be notable regardless of lockdown. We might work this out after the virus has made a winter comeback. Pity we’ve already wasted our economic ammunition.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:25am
  - oldfella
    
    It was too difficult to model the significance of UV. Pity, because modelling is the gold standard way to make sure we get the right information. Look at AGW?
    
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    April 24, 2020 11:19am
  - cmm
    
    UV is important, but sunlight creates vitamin D which helps the immune system.
    
    “Vitamin D can modulate the innate and adaptive immune responses. Deficiency in vitamin D is associated with increased autoimmunity as well as an increased susceptibility to infection.”
    
    Adaptive immunity is especially important for the body to rapidly react to new pathogens.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_immune_system
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166406/
    
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    April 24, 2020 5:19pm
    - cmm
      
      “UV is important”, sorry I obviously meant “The sterilizing effect of UV is important”
      
      UV plays multiple roles.
      
      This is the reasons Russian kids have been given UV treatments in winter for generations.
      
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      April 24, 2020 5:21pm
Tomtoddy

It is no longer possible to:

1. believe what you read in the MSN
2. obtain quality journalism
3. conduct a principled debate in the media
4. Have any letter or article printed that contradicts the prevailing view
5. avoid the manipulating in social media
6. rely on the media as the “4th estate” – a once vital part of our democracy.
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April 24, 2020 10:17am
- cmm
  
  … and you can’t even choose if you pay for it anymore.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:41am
  - Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
    
    On a positive note, no items on the Tomtoddy doomsday list actually appear in the REAL world.
    
    Here is the real world:
    
    -The barber opening in Browns Bay.
    -The cars parked outside offices in Constellation Drive and the unseen occupants trying to get back to normal.
    -‘Bread and Butter’ cafe (my local) with open doors getting ready.
    -The mother and her two children paddling on Milford Beach.
    -Porana Road.
    -Groups of people stopping to talk in Hurstmere Rd
    
    Enough?
    
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    April 24, 2020 12:34pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    If you mean taxpayer money, agreed. But if you mean Stuff’s undignified begging, or the Herald’s paywall, I choose NO.
    
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    April 24, 2020 12:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Something special for all of you rabid lefties with TDS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw
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April 24, 2020 11:00am
- old skool reactionary
  
  We don’t need Trump now, we have a timely pandemic that has delivered the death blow to Globalism.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There it is again. TDS is worldwide
    
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    April 24, 2020 1:33pm
I remember when

COL 87%
It is going to get colder.
There will be long periods of rain.
The papers will start reporting on problems in councils forward plans.
Trade figures will appear.
People will inspect their Kiwi Saver balances.
People are going to be out of work.
People in work will continue to receive low wages.
Reports of the woes of small businesses will be printed.
Big businesses will reassess staffing levels.
Queenstown will report lack of skiers.
The Earnslaw will be mothballed.
ETC
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April 24, 2020 11:05am
cmm

… and here is exactly why law abiding gun owners should have their guns taken away:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327264

It seems that his story changed.
In the beginning:
* It wasn’t his gun.
* He found it behind the hot water cylinder – must have been left there by the previous occupier.
* He didn’t even know it was loaded.
* It just went off.

Even more scary is that the partner is so Stockholmed that she thinks he belongs at home and not locked behind bars.

Sentenced to 4 years and four months. Served two and a half and maybe some remand.

Does anyone believe the remorse? It looks like the parole board did.
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April 24, 2020 11:49am
- Tall Man
  
  He is declined by the Parole Board in April but gets another crack five months later.
  
  If you receive an ACC disability assessment you are ineligible for another for at least 12 months, regardless of any change in your circumstances.
  
  Now those are differing circumstances but it does show that currently, as a nation, we are more concerned about criminals rights than victims or patients rights.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:57am
Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy

I’ve done some modelling.

Apparently Cindy will win with 200% of the vote. National will get -200%. The ‘Greens’ will get a coalition agreement. Winston will go fishing.

If my model says so, believe it peasants.

Or else you are a BAD peasant.
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April 24, 2020 12:00pm
emmess

There is more realistic data coming out about unemployment rates now from America

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/23/economy-coronavirus-unemployment/

Scroll down to the graph – Five weeks of initial unemployment claims

States with extreme lockdowns like NZ such as Michigan now have unemployment rates in the mid 20s and rising.
States with no or light lockdowns still have single digit unemployment rates.

Add to that, that there is now mounting evidence that lockdown have had little effect on the spread of the virus.
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April 24, 2020 12:07pm
curry4me

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3921563
Sweden has shuttered all Chinese sponsored ‘Confucius Institutes’.
Let’s hope this starts a trend worldwide.
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April 24, 2020 12:07pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWA4IcBQ0YA
Liberal colleges are collapsing. What a shame.
Up to 50% of all colleges could be closed by 2030.
Keeping up with trends is hard, and
discounts can be a trap.
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April 24, 2020 12:08pm
- Fletch
  
  Meanwhile, The Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio announced on Tuesday that it will be covering 100 percent of tuition costs for new students enrolling for the fall 2020 semester.
  
  https://franciscan.edu/franciscan-university-to-cover-100-of-tuition-costs-for-fall-2020-for-new-students/
  
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  April 24, 2020 3:16pm
oldfella

Now for something completely different… Why Osama Bin Laden wanted to kill Obama.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/osama-bin-laden-wanted-to-kill-obama-so-biden-would-be-president-declassified-docs-show
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April 24, 2020 12:37pm
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, well, Biden is sure to mess up the country. Bin Laden would be amused to know that people are talking about voluntarily voting for Biden ?
  
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  April 24, 2020 3:12pm
cmm

According to these people we’re years away from returning to normal unless we invest heavily in vaccine development & evaluation.

Sorry people, this disease kills almost exclusively older frail people. They will all be dead of other causes within that timeframe.

We cannot have a “new normal” for years because of Covid19.

Sure, let’s get a vaccine in place like we have for H1N1 etc, but we can’t stop the world waiting for it.

This is rapidly turning into a bloody scam. A power trip and money grab for politicians, academics and bureaucrats.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327025
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April 24, 2020 12:45pm
- MCos
  
  https://twitter.com/hoosiermamatags/status/1253097713408847872?s=21
  
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  April 24, 2020 2:54pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  percent of US deaths up until a few days ago:
  80% Pensioners.
  
  Under 1 year 0%
  1–4 years 0%
  5–14 years 0%
  15–24 years 0%
  25–34 years 1%
  35–44 years 2%
  45–54 years 5%
  55–64 years 13%
  65–74 years 22%
  75–84 years 28%
  85 years and over 30%
  
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  April 24, 2020 3:45pm
- Jules99
  
  Scientists desperate to save their jobs.
  
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  April 24, 2020 4:14pm
Faroffsound

Opinion from ABC:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-22/coronavirus-eradication-suppression-new-zealand-australia/12172100
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April 24, 2020 12:56pm
- alwyn
  
  Another one who fell for her story.
  Now she is saying that when I said “Elimination” I didn’t really mean “Elimination”
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327277
  I fear our Prime Minister is really Humpty Dumpty.
  ““When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean”
  
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  April 24, 2020 6:32pm
Ed Snack

I’d like to point people to a very interesting article on Quillette.com by Jonathan Kay. He is (as an interested amateur) investigating known SSE (Super Spreader Events) and NZ gets a mention.

The gist seems to be that at least as far as SSE are concerned, the primary spreading mechanism appears to be large aerosol droplets – so called Fluggian droplets. these are “large ballistic droplets” so they are expelled and because of their size quite rapidly move out of the air under gravity. They carry a relatively large viral load (compared to smaller sub-Fluggian droplets that remain suspended for sometimes considerable periods), are reasonably short range, and are produced by people in a number of ways.

One obvious way to get a lot of FD’s (Fluggian droplets) is to sneeze or cough. Another important way is to talk loudly or excitedly, to laugh or shout, or to sing. And Closeness is important as the FD’s can travel some distance (a good sneeze for example) but typically don’t go much beyond a couple of metres.

He arrives at this conclusion from looking at SSE’s, and the NZ Bluff Wedding is a good example. The patient zero for that was a flight attendant who had the virus but was at that time not showing significant symptoms – I think he went on to have mild but noticeable symptoms. Prior to his attendance at the wedding he was, in his job, in attendance with a significant number of people n flights, but there’s no known infections from that (although he could of course not been shedding the virus so prolifically at that point). At the Wedding he was an active participant, meeting, greeting shaking hands kissing, and talking relatively loudly (as were they all) in a crowded and noisy venue. So the Wedding was an ideal place to spread FD’s, the previous (almost control situations) he was in wasn’t.

And although the other major cluster in NZ at Marist School isn’t necessarily a place where FD’s would be widely shared, as an intermediate (and secondary ?) girl’s school it probably is relatively “noisy with much excited and close quarters talking”. Then the other clusters excepting the Residential care homes though tend to be places where loud environments and close contacts (Pub, Funeral, Stag party) are markers.

By contrast he notes that Measles is apparently largely spread by sub-FD’s, and it has a different spread pattern – and a much higher R (spreadibility) index.

Anyway, this could be useful information especially for decisions on how to socially distance – noisy workplaces for example could be places needing special management (the noise means people speak loudly and likely aspirate significantly more FDs,and at close range) – there are 4 SSE’s in the US located in processing plants.

I recommend the article, it is well written and not dogmatic. It is a hypothesis that obviously needs more investigation, but is interesting and potentially very useful.

https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
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April 24, 2020 1:12pm
rangitoto

Professor Petr Chumakov, chief researcher at the Engelhardt Institute of Molecular Biology in Moscow says the coronavirus is the result of Wuhan scientists doing ‘absolutely crazy things’ in their laboratory.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249875/Wuhan-laboratory-scientists-did-absolutely-crazy-things-alter-coronavirus.html
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April 24, 2020 1:40pm
- Batman
  
  Amazing, and the Russians would never say anything to cause chaos, would they? No siree….
  
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  April 24, 2020 2:13pm
  - rangitoto
    
    The Russian Government official position is that the virus is of natural origin.
    
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    April 24, 2020 2:18pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The Russian government’s official position is also that it has no connection to the St Petersburg internet troll farm…
      
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      April 24, 2020 3:28pm
Swifty

See this poor woman, still paying staff but no revenue coming in the door so is about to lose her business and possibly her house:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/prosper/finances/121241005/coronavirus-it-could-be-too-late-for-my-business-as-the-covid19-pandemic-takes-its-toll

I do hope R, Martin Williams and Deborah Russell do the decent thing and get in touch with her to explain that hers is a business that must have been running inefficiently, does not deserve to survive and that taxpayer money is more urgently needed to spray at multi-national news media companies in order to both increase Labour’s re-election chances and as payola for the recent adoring coverage.

“Sorry madame, but you are probably a National voter anyway, so…yeah nah.”
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April 24, 2020 1:54pm
Old White Loser

Here is a real hero!

I hope she survives, it would be nice to know her name to be able to assist.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/prosper/finances/121241005/coronavirus-it-could-be-too-late-for-my-business-as-the-covid19-pandemic-takes-its-toll
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April 24, 2020 2:01pm
cmm

If I understand the Level 3 rules correctly:

1) I can go for a walk at the beach, but only if it is close by. I can’t go for a walk on the beach if it is, say, 30 minutes away.

2) I can go for an easy tramp. For most people, tramps are going to be more than 30 minutes away.

Now the question:

Can I go for a tramp on the beach?

If so, how can I convince Plod that I am tramping and not walking? Do I need a backpack? Boots? What?
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April 24, 2020 2:14pm
niggly

Breaking news – Labour appoints a new Police and Health Minister (why have two dummies when one will do):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDSM7AKfVJg
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April 24, 2020 3:34pm
cmm

The latest death is counted as a death without even testing:

“The man, who was considered to be a probable Covid-19 case due to his exposure history and clinical symptoms”

Ignoring the died from vs died with issue, they quite likely have made the right guess, but still, you’d expect a test before officially adding him to the list.

How many of our CV19 deaths have been untested? How many are wrong?

This apparently has happened a lot in NYC deaths and there is some significant concern that the death numbers in NYC are inflated by these guesses.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121243712/coronavirus-minister-grant-robertson-to-talk-sport-at-covid19-press-conference
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April 24, 2020 4:25pm
- krazykiwi
  
  There was a legislative change passed under urgency in the UK recently. It allows doctors to cite Covid-19 as suspected as being present, without any testing. If they do this then the death does not need to be referred to the coroner like deaths due to other infectious disease. It will really cut down on the busy doctor’s paperwork. What could possibly go wrong …
  
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  April 24, 2020 5:09pm
niggly

Beep beep this is a covid 19 announcement!

https://youtu.be/VI1tipuZHuU?t=42
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April 24, 2020 4:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Max, like 2.3M
  
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  April 24, 2020 5:19pm
Pheobe

I was just over on the labour, I go there every now and then to see what is going on, but cant stay to long, I see Jacinda has a happy Ramadan up.
I also noticed a post by a small business person, asking if they could get some help with their fixed costs, without having to get further into debt with the banks, seemed a reasonable question….this is an example of replies:

” what I cannot get over with many in the business world prior to the virus and the lock down absolutely rubbished socialism or anything run by the state yet here we are those same people want the state to help them out financially.

I asked if there was no small business who would pay for there socialism.
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April 24, 2020 4:40pm
Maggie Pie

My partner can’t help himself!
I happened to mention I’d booked into Marilyn’s to get my hair done once they reopen, but there was already a 3 week waiting list!
He just sent me this link……

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWQVeorVAAA9rMe?format=jpg&name=small

He’ll keep 🙁
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April 24, 2020 5:11pm
mikenmildagain

Why isn’t our government mandating the treatment of coronavirus cases by the injection of disinfectant? People need to know.
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April 24, 2020 6:37pm
- MrTips
  
  Because we don’t have any PPE for our frontline staff to handle it MMA. They spent all the money on Pravda appointments.
  
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  April 24, 2020 7:48pm
- doggone7
  
  Because the present regime doesn’t think El Presidente Trump is God?
  
  No doubt there will be some here who think he is a genius and his genius solutions should be followed.
  
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  April 24, 2020 10:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another chap has been to court today for death threats against Simon Bridges

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/second-man-appear-in-court-charged-threatening-kill-simon-bridges
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April 24, 2020 9:43pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I hope those who orchestrated the social media pile-on against Simon Bridges are proud of themselves. Oddly though, it doesn’t even rate a mention on the Herald or Stuff websites.
  
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  April 24, 2020 11:10pm

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