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April 26, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 April 2020

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PhilBest

Meet the Anti-Jacinda:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/22/exclusive-south-dakota-gov-kristi-noem-on-beating-coronavirus-without-lockdown-were-much-better-on-offense/
Of course this truly amazing woman won’t be getting fawned over by the world’s progressive media any time soon.
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April 26, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  And this amazing woman has the inherent disadvantage over Jacinda, that she is governing a territory in the Northern Hemisphere during winter and flu season. Many other factors – of the advantageous kind – are similar between her territory and ours, but this woman has the smarts to understand the advantageous factors for what they are; but our “kind and saintly” Jacinda imagines herself to be “saving her people from being the next Northern Italy”. BAH.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:10am
  - stewmar
    
    Many other factors – of the advantageous kind – are similar between her territory and ours,
    
    South Dakota has a population of 800,000, not exactly similar to ours
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:52am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      South Dakota is surrounded by 6 states
      We are surrounded by over 1000Km of Pacific ocean.
      Much easier for us to keep it at bay.
      
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      April 26, 2020 1:25pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        ” I’ve just been super proud of what the people in South Dakota have done—they recognized that I wasn’t going to dictate to them, that I valued their freedoms and liberties and that I was going to let them take action on behalf of their families and communities.”
        And that’s the key – she trusted the people who value freedom – and they responded.
        (Sorry RWC – I downticked you by mistake)
        
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        April 26, 2020 2:43pm
- Justitia
  
  Sadly the majority of New Zealanders these days are not cut from the same cloth as Americans from the Mid-West. I have been shocked how easily they have been infantilized and reduced to a state of childlike dependency under St Jacinda of the Pestilence. Aided and abetted by a thoroughly mendacious media . This is a shameful time.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:33am
  - David Garrett
    
    Justitia: I agree…and it really bothers me that the “man in the street” is both almost totally ignorant of the powers the police now wield, and when s/he is informed of them, they don’t give a fuck.
    
    I have heard “Oh well, we need to just follow Jacinda’s lead at a time like this” so often it is frankly terrifying.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:40am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      A nation of sheep are destined to be ruled by wolves.
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:44am
      - Ruawai
        
        Most rural people we talk to who farm the sheep don’t rate the Labour Govt. Still can’t work out why they gave 12 weeks wage subsidy, should have only given month by month as needed.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:32am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Ruawai: panic. That’s the reason. The opposite of the sensible, measured Sth Dakota governor.
        
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        April 26, 2020 12:13pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        “People who wilfully surrender their freedom for perceived safety, deserve neither Freedom nor Safety” (or similar – Winston Churchill ?? )
        
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        April 26, 2020 2:47pm
    - bruceavon
      
      Well the reason I am not bothered and I probably speak for most people, is because the police are acting so professionally, and I find it very hard to imagine we are in some sort of terrifying police state. We went to the dairy and a big police roadblock was set up stopping both sides of the traffic outside. About 8 cops. My kids and I ate our ice creams and watched. The police were entirely respectful and professional. I have been pulled over once, same thing. And I was at the supermarket when they were called for a shoplifter. I am also old enough to remember what the police were like in the 80’s. Dodgy as. And was at a party which was attended by the famous “red squad’. Now that was scary police state stuff, but I see nothing about the modern police force that causes me to have those concerns. They are doing a great job. what laws have they misused? What do you think they can do?
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:35am
      - stewmar
        
        Well the reason I am not bothered and I probably speak for most people, is because the police are acting so professionally
        
        In my community I’ve not seen any evidence of the police taking action against the numerous and obvious lockdown deniers. In fact haven’t seen any police
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:56am
      - Justitia
        
        @ bruceavon: Um, how about the Police’s aiding and abetting the illegal, shall we say “culturally-based”, roadblocks harassing law-abiding citizens that are popping up like malevolent toadstools?
        
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        April 26, 2020 11:34am
      - bruceavon
        
        @Justitia. Yeah that sounds like bullshit, but its hardly evidence of a Stasi like police state.
        
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        April 26, 2020 12:37pm
      - Harriet
        
        “…..the police are acting so professionally, I find it very hard to imagine we are in some sort of terrifying police state….”
        
        1] Where do you think the general location of most civilians in NZ are at the present moment?
        
        2] Who do you think is keeping them all there?
        
        “……We went to the dairy and a big police roadblock was set up stopping both sides of the traffic outside. About 8 cops. My kids and I ate our ice creams and watched. The police were entirely respectful and professional……”
        
        So too are the mongrel mob at random blockades in other parts of NZ. And they both for once have exactly the same goal in mind.
        
        You are in a terrifying police state – you bloody idiot! 😎
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:31pm
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        Went shopping today. Battery was very low and car almost didn’t start. To make sure I’d be able to get back out of the supermarket carpark I decided to take it on a quick high speed run down the road to Cambridge and back to charge the battery first. Of course as soon as I get out of Hamilton … police road block.
        
        So I explain this to the nice young female police officer (it is all females doing the stopping and talking with a bloke discreetly in the background) and she sighs and lets me through telling me not to go too far. So yeah it is like a police state – being randomly stopped and asked to explain your business. But I don’t think the police like it much and they do seem to be trying their best to be nice about it. Let’s hope things get back to normal soon.
        
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        April 26, 2020 7:34pm
- chukar
  
  That is real leadership.Great to see a politician trust her people.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:51am
- rouppe
  
  I just opened LinkedIn this morning. Full of Jacinda adulation.
  
  I closed it again.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:57am
  - double d
    
    Same here Rouppe. It seems to be a LinkedIn thing that to praise Ardern gives some Street cred – I would love to engage and point out that leadership isn’t reading an auto cue and talking about being kind and (incredibly) talking about how you were showing leadership by taking a 20 percent payout (disingenuousness as it is a 6 month payout – hence a 10percent annualised pat cut – versus countless people that have taken a 100% payout) and that it ain’t that hard to flatten the curve by crushing ALL economic activity – the measure of the PMship of Ardern will be leading the recovery- but most want to praise her for crushing our economy by acting hard and LATE (think of her stubborn refusal to cancel the 15 March memorial)
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:23am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Using Government funds to push her presence as part of electioneering.
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:42am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Much as it pains me to defend St. Jacinda, but South Dakota’s statistics are not that flash when you consider they’ve only got 800,000 people and their largest city is the size of Hamilton.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:08am
  - fernglas
    
    It depends on the statistics that you think are important. If the lack of current deaths and infection is what you consider to be important, then NZ is up there. If it is long-term survival of the economy, or the development of a large population with immunity, or widespread testing for antibodies to identify those who are no longer susceptible so that we can get back to normal, then it is an abysmal fail
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:17am
  - emmess
    
    So, if that is your rationale, why is NZ favourably compared to much larger and densely populated countries?
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:22am
- Ian Boag
  
  Ask google about “South Dakota coronavirus” and you’ll find quite a few less flattering links ….
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:02am
  - emmess
    
    Is that an issue with South Dakota or Google?
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:23am
  - Dougal10
    
    You lost me at ask Google
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:28am
  - PhilBest
    
    Ask Google about “Jesus Christ” and also about “Mohammed” and see what it says. Google is Big Brother and the Memory Hole combined.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:35pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  “I looked at our state and our people here and knew they would take on the personal responsibility that would be necessary to protect their families and their communities,” Noem said.
  
  Says it all really. Contrast with our Command and Control sad excuse for a Leader.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:40am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Wikipedia
    
    On March 10, Governor Kristi Noem’s office announced the first four cases and one death.[1] March 13, Governor Noem declared a state of emergency; School are closed beginning March 16.[2][3]
    
    On April 9, over 80 employees at a Smithfield Foods pork processing plant in Sioux Falls were confirmed to have COVID-19. The plant announced it would suspend operations beginning April 11.[4] By that day, Smithfield employees accounted for the majority of active cases in South Dakota. Some activity continued at the plant on April 14, as it planned to shut down completely.[5] On April 15, 438 Smithfield employees tested positive for COVID-19.[6]
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:47pm
    - johnson777
      
      I guess your taking hours to post comments is an attempt to kill the conversation.
      
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      April 26, 2020 2:35pm
    - johnson777
      
      [Mod: if you insist on continuing to post false claims and abusing the mods, we’ll be forced to ban you]
      
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      April 26, 2020 2:46pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/watch-live-south-dakota-governor-gives-coronavirus-update-2
    
    A couple of extracts ..
    
    South Dakota has 1,956 cases of COVID-19, according to the state’s department of health, and nine people have died.
    
    Nearly 800 of the state’s confirmed COVID-19 cases were tied to employees at a pork processing plant that closed earlier this month.
    
    Population of SD is about 800,000 give or take
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:53pm
- emmess
  
  And South Dakota unemployment rate is the lowest of all the states at 6%, others are high as the mid 20s – https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/23/economy-coronavirus-unemployment/
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:19am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    They have done extremely well then. That is very little death, and excellent economic preservation
    
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    April 26, 2020 4:41pm
- cha
  
  Yeah, Noem’s doing real well.
  
  Her state has 8 times the infection rate and 3 times the number of deaths of NZ per capita.
  
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  April 26, 2020 2:44pm
CJames

There is an interesting essay by Douglas Murray on the dangers on the Americanisation of political journalism. https://unherd.com/2020/04/can-british-media-steer-clear-of-the-american-sewer/ Though written for for Britain, it shows why things have got so bad in NZ, with the TVs picking heroes and villains and organising things accordingly. And then wondering why they are losing audiences and credibility.
Embedded within the essay is an interesting video of an interview between Bill Maher and Dan Crenshaw. It is similar to the Key Campbell interview with Crenshaw being on top of his facts, just wiping the floor with the journalist who was just wanting to use talking points. All done by speaking very politely and not raising his voice. It is easy to see Crenshaw is seen as someone going somewhere in the Republican party and a man to watch.
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April 26, 2020 8:00am
- David George
  
  Yes that Congressman Crenshaw interview was revealing; Maher without his sycophantic, cue carded audience fell as flat as a pancake. Brilliant!
  Crenshaw was very impressive and one to watch as you say CJames.
  As someone said “in the land of the wilfully blind the one eyed man is King”
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:30am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Dan Crenshaw is a liberal, a fake conservative, anti-American mass immigration advocate who doesn’t say a word without first clearing it with the Israel lobbyists who bankroll him. He is a shill who represents everything that is wrong with the political swamp in the US.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:20am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Dan Crenshaw gets very uncomfortable when he is asked the wrong questions:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djBU9BUDZY0
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:37am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Unlike our PTPM when faced with a question that has not been scripted . . . .
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:47am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Yes, exactly like that.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:24am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Plus the compliant coward media asking patsy questions….let me ask one:
        
        “PM – You look tired. Are you getting enough sleep? You must be worried about the well being of Kiwis all the time”.
        
        Cindy: “Yes I do. I always worry about the welfare of Kiwis and how to help them. I don’t worry about my sleep much.”
        
        Sheeple watching: “awwwweeee. Jacinda you are my hero”
        
        Dud Bridges: People, do you realise she has a toddler??
        
        Facebook trolls: Go away Simon you heartless monster.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:38am
    - CJames
      
      You really are a tinfoil hat wearer, aren’t you TPG. And one with some seriously worrying anti-Semitic tendencies. The “evidence” you put up to support your claims is tenuous at best. Crenshaw handled an at times hostile crowd without scripting well – that is why he is good.
      If the question was the one about the ship attack that happened before he was born and under a Democrat administration, why should he answer that question? He just said he had read the reports and agreed with them. Or was it at the end of the severely edited video (where the subtitles didn’t always match what was said) where someone started rambling on about 9/11 being to Israel’s benefit as they were escorted out? That person never asked a question – just did a rant. No doubt you believe that Israel was behind the Twin Towers attack as well. You need serious help that you won’t get by commenting your views on blogs.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:06am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Pretty weak. That’s mostly just a collection of ad homs. I’m a “tin foil hat wearer” with “anti-Semitic tendencies” according to you. Those are Leftist tactics.
        
        Pointing out that the powerful Israel lobby is one of the most influential in US politics (see AIPAC etc.) is not anti-Semitic, any more than pointing out that most pedophiles are Caucasian is anti-Caucasian. It’s a plainly observable fact. The behaviour of some doesn’t condemn the entire category. It’s pretty low-resolution thinking to claim that it does.
        
        My posts above say nothing about Jewish people as a collective at all. It’s no different than the Islamists who cannot cope with any descriptive facts about the behaviour of some of their fellow adherents. Why is that?
        
        These young college kids asking uncomfortable questions were removed by the police. What does that say?
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:37am
      - CJames
        
        They didn’t ask questions TPG. They had rants. What was the specific question asked?
        Even the arch- conservatives see the Groypers as people with seriously dodgy views. If you want to ally yourself with them, you are welcome, but expect ridicule from almost everyone else. And how else can you describe someone who is a conspiracy nutter that is beyond reason or intelligent thought?
        I am glad to know I am a leftist. My kids think I am a reactionary.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:51am
    - David George
      
      You do realize what those Groypers are Ghandi; that was a planned ambush by a group of extremist, antisemitic holocaust deniers.
      What agenda are you pushing here.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:27am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Yeah, I know who the Groypers are, and I know that they have factually incorrect epithets like “extremist, antisemitic holocaust deniers” applied to them by people who cannot counter there views on mass immigration, fake conservatism and the effects of Globalisation on America.
        
        The footage I posted was not of an “ambush” – this was a voluntary Q&A held by a guy who was asked questions that he didn’t want to have asked of him. There is nothing sinister here. My “agenda” is simply clarifying that Crenshaw is in fact a shill, in response to someone commenting that he was a great prospect.
        
        Why does this make you so uncomfortable?
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:45am
      - CJames
        
        There is a good paragraph in National Rwview that sums the Groypers and their actions up.
        “Still, whatever Turning Point USA’s flaws are, they pale in comparison to the “Groypers,” who are basically the answer to the question, “what if the alt-Right wasn’t so open-minded and cuddly?” This crowd is fans of the usual “jokes” about the Holocaust and accusations of people being “Shabbos goy race traitors.” They’ve disrupted speeches by representative Dan Crenshaw and Ben Shapiro, as well as Donald Trump Jr. (Notice these guys act like disrupting somebody else’s speech is some sort of grand victory — a trait they share with the angry campus leftists. These are forces that can spoil and destroy but cannot create and build.)”
        People who promote the ideas or associate with that group are the type who are a serious risk to creating another mass shooting.
        
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        April 26, 2020 12:19pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        CJames
        Anyone can write anything they want about someone they wish to defame. For instance when someone says “people who promote the ideas or associate with that group are the type who are a serious risk to creating another mass shooting.”
        That sounds like an typical leftist scare tactic to shut down people they disagree with but who cannot make an argument against their position.
        
        I’m not a “follower” of anybody. However, you will find that the Groypers/Nick Fuentes merely advocate for the ideas that get a lot of traction and likes in KB. They are gaining a lot of traction in the States amongst normal people, often Christian, Gen Zers (particularly) and therefore are scaring a lot of politically established people with a lot to lose, by advocating what used to be called “common sense”. Things like:
        
        Halt mass immigration
        
        No unnecessary foreign interventions
        
        A focus on the nation and its citizens, not foreign entities
        
        A shared civic mindset, emphasis on Western values, and a
        family-based ethic
        
        Generally, a return to traditional values and the rejection of
        destructive progressive liberalism
        
        If you find that scary, then I feel sorry for you.
        
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        April 26, 2020 4:38pm
      - Batman
        
        I don’t, purely because they’re a minority and thus no threat.
        
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        April 26, 2020 4:47pm
      - CJames
        
        TPG look at the actual writings of Nick Fuentes some of which are documented here. https://www.irehr.org/reports/alt-right-to-groyper/
        At the most charitable, you would say he is advocating race wars. And when some impressionable young disaffected male shoots up a school/ synagogue/ mosque and leaves Fuentes words in his manifesto, you will say he was just misunderstood. It seems you are saying some of Fuentes ideas are common sense, but he is not advocating violence. Yeah right, you are another Tui ad.
        
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        April 26, 2020 6:15pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        CJames
        “Leonard Zeskind” of the IREHR? Yeah, I’m sure that he doesn’t have any agenda to push. Israel is a paradigm ethno-state, so I can’t really get past the hypocrisy and take him or you seriously.
        
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        April 26, 2020 7:12pm
  - David George
    
    That’ a strange conclusion Ghandi, doesn’t fit with what he’s quoted as saying or his actions.
    “During his 2018 election campaign, Crenshaw defended Trump’s proposal to build a border wall on the Southern border. During a May 2019 appearance on The View, Crenshaw claimed that 80–90% of asylum seeker requests “don’t have a valid asylum claim.”
    About his new book: Fortitude: American Resilience in the Era of Outrage
    “Jordan Peterson’s Twelve Rules for Life meets Jocko Willink and Leif Babin’s Extreme Ownership in this tough-love leadership book from a Navy SEAL and rising star in Republican politics.”
    Rather than rely on secondhand opinion I’ve ordered the book, see what he has to say for himself.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:46am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      It’s not a strange conclusion. He and other fake conservatives (e.g. Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk) were ‘never Trumpers’ until he won the Presidency, when they abruptly changed their tunes.
      
      https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/771017284273909761
      
      https://nationalfile.com/video-charlie-kirk-gets-booed-off-campus-by-students-chanting-america-first/
      
      https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2019/11/8/shapiro-on-jesus-fuentes-on-ovens-kirk-on-gays-crenshaw-on-trump-fri-11819
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:11am
    - CJames
      
      Yours is a very strange conclusion TPG. Crenshaw wasn’t elected until the mid-term elections, so Trump was already President. And Crenshaw has defended nearly all of Trump’s policies, despite obviously not a sycophant. I note Trump is a big supporter of Israel. Are you going to call him out as well?
      Interesting to note that Crenshaw isn’t eligible to run for President. That sets the limits for his future in politics.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:39am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Yes, Trump’s love affair with a foreign nation is pretty obscene actually. So I denounce Trump on that. He’s the American President, not the Prime Minister of Israel. However all politicians on both sides are unanimous on this one point though.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:51am
      - emmess
        
        Just looked up why that is.
        Both his parents were American but he was born in Scotland.
        Have to say it is a silly law that the president must have been born on US soil.
        
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        April 26, 2020 11:30am
      - James Stephenson
        
        I would assume that Crenshaw is eligible – after all Ted Cruz ran, despite being born in Canada.
        
        I seem to remember discussion at that time that “natural born” meant citizen from birth, and that would be the case, being born to US citizens abroad.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:41pm
      - CJames
        
        Looks like Crenshaw’s dad was either military or a contractor for the military. So odds on his parents were US citizens at the time of his birth. Then the rulings on eligibility get murky. Cruz was supposedly eligible because his mother was a US citizen but the birth was in Canada so that was OK or some reason like that. I think the ruling was it had to be on US soil in the lower courts but this is always being challenged – sort of blowback against the Republican truthers who claimed Obama wasn’t eligible because they believed he was born before Hawaii had been a state, or whatever there convoluted “reasoning” was. It has never been tested in the Supreme Court what the actual wording means.
        
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        April 26, 2020 3:15pm
      - CJames
        
        According to here:
        https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-faction/2019/4/15/18308338/natural-born-citizen-us-president
        “The term “natural born” had its roots in English common law. Those born on English soil were considered automatically English subjects, even if their parents were foreigners. But there was also centuries of precedent and law supporting the “natural born” status of those born outside England to English-subject parents. This doctrine was confirmed in the Naturalization Act of 1790, which declared the foreign-born children of US citizens to be “natural born” citizens. But subsequent laws altered this principle just enough to confuse.
        “Birthright citizenship” was confirmed in a series of court cases in the nineteenth century and was explicitly stated in the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.””
        So the law is really murky.
        
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        April 26, 2020 3:21pm
- thirteenstars
  
  “…on the dangers on the Americanisation of political journalism.”
  
  Huh? You’ve got that backwards. If NZ media was *more* like American news media we’d be far better off.
  
  Where’s the counter in NZ to the TV1/TV3 news and current affairs bias? Nowhere. In the US there exists Fox News as a very powerful balancing force, and it’s very existence is hated by all the right people which is evidence it’s doing something right. And in Australia you have Sky News which is as Fox-like as you could expect with a pretty solid line up of commentators who are pro-freedom and anti-Liberal. It was Sky News that was taken off the Sky NZ service for a couple of days after the mosque shootings because it refused requests to stop openly reporting on the events and the gunman while all NZ media kowtowed to police threats to be very wary of what they reported on.
  
  Further, the US has a vast array of publications, websites and podcasts that counter the near-monopoly the Liberals have on broadcast media. That hardly exists in NZ.
  
  We need more, not less of that.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:00pm
  - David George
    
    Good points but I suggest you read the UnHerd article, it’s not what you think.
    https://unherd.com/2020/04/can-british-media-steer-clear-of-the-american-sewer/
    
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    April 26, 2020 2:50pm
krazykiwi

In Queensland, a police helicopter with night-vision equipment tracked down three young men who were drinking a beer on the roof of a house at night, thus violating “Corona regulations“. The men were informed via a megaphone that the building is “surrounded by police“ and that they must proceed to the exit. The men were fined about $1000.

Police state, much?
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April 26, 2020 8:00am
- G152
  
  I can see an annoyed lawyer having a field day at this and the police doing an about face and paying
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:25am
  - Inandout
    
    G152, you must be thinking of serial rule breaker Hone, no?
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:17am
    - G152
      
      No but John breaking the law and stopping people on a highway appears to be legit.
      Cindy says
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:42am
- igm
  
  Ardern would be fizzing seeing that joke.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:35am
PhilBest

Matt Walsh displaying his always-reliable logic and common sense:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/walsh-governor-cuomos-justification-of-the-shutdowns-is-incoherent-and-immoral
“…First of all, the illness is not death. For a very small minority of people, it will cause death. For most it will not. So, when Cuomo says “the illness is death,” what he must mean is that “the illness is a thing that for a minority of people leads to death.” But then how can he claim that economic hardship and domestic violence aren’t, in this same sense, death? Poverty kills millions across the world each year. Domestic violence kills thousands. I’m sure that Cuomo doesn’t actually think that domestic violence and poverty aren’t potentially deadly, but that’s what rationalizing his lockdown policies implies.
As for this “it’s not just about you” stuff, that holds true in the other direction as well. If it is selfish for a man to go to work to feed his family because he might get someone else sick, is it not just as selfish to demand or impose a lockdown that will impoverish other people just so that you can be safe? I would argue that “it’s not just about you” applies much more to the people supporting lockdowns than those opposing them, given that the policies are instated and enforced by government officials who still have jobs and defended by media personalities who still have jobs. They get all of the benefit of the shutdown – namely, whatever nominal and temporary safety the policies might afford – but suffer almost none of the consequences. ..
“…You simply cannot have a functioning civilization that views the avoidance of death as the ultimate and overriding goal, and death itself as a thing that must be avoided at literally any cost. By that logic, every action that carries risk should be banned. All driving banned. All vehicles impounded. Every pool and baseball diamond and beach and amusement park closed. To permit any of these things is to admit that we are willing to risk death. It’s probably much more likely that a young and healthy person drowns at the beach because of a riptide than it is that he dies from contracting the virus at the beach. And yet we closed the beaches only for fear of the latter scenario…”
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April 26, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  On the point of “contracting the virus at the beach”, what we know about UV – what all the so called “experts” should have been taking into account all along – means that the beach on a sunny day is virtually a safe space from viruses. Quite likely a major reason that lockdowns don’t show any recognisable effect statistically, is that people still getting out in the sun are not at any increased risk from doing so, and this may well be an infection-INTERRUPTING factor in the “spread”.
  
  The other reason is that sensible hygiene and distancing by a sufficiently-scared populace, is 95% of the potential mitigation. The cost of the lockdown shouldn’t be weighed up against “the worst case scenario” it should be weighed up against the “already 95% solved” scenario.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:06am
- Cinematic
  
  It’ll be interesting to see how NY’s numbers stack up in the long run. Looks like they were counting everything and anyone as covid related.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:38am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Do you set the alarm for 8am Phil? Not one, but two lengthy epistles this morning, both posted at exactly 8.00am.
  
  Do you suffer from withdrawal symptoms on the odd occasion when Kokila hasn’t scheduled the GD for the correct time?
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:55pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy World Intellectual Property Day!
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April 26, 2020 8:01am
- Justitia
  
  I hear it’s big in China.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:26am
  - Papalazarou
    
    Other people’s
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:10pm
- ldypen
  
  Does China know?
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:27am
- Tarquin North
  
  Other wise known as ” what’s yours is mine day” in China.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:30am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Thanks. How’s the foreclosure panning out?
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:35am
- JamesP
  
  Ironic from a person clearly posting from a list prepared by someone else without even an attribution.
  
  12 1
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  April 26, 2020 9:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You think looking at a public available list of dates and pointing out one of them requires attribution?
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:52am
- Lee C
  
  You should be feeling safer than Fort Knox in that regard, Milky…
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:46am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Good to see you are celebrating something Milkmaid!!
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:40am
- JackRabbit
  
  Funded by the United Nations it is an Unhappy World Intellectual Property Day!
  
  Another Trojan Organisation.
  
  You really are gullible Mikey.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Those Trojans sure get around. I thought the Greeks has settled their hash three thousand years ago.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:35pm
dave_c_

Covid – Stunning truths emerge.

This is the most sensible and understandable commentary about this whole Covid thing that I have come across.
I believe it is worth 3 minutes of your time to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNTHuCOjAy8&feature=youtu.be
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April 26, 2020 8:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Faucci has not seen a patient in 20 years. He is NWO.
  Trump will drop him like a hot potato soon
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:29am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Don’t worry, Trump has an excellent replacement lined up.
    
    In his letter, Mark Grenon told Trump that chlorine dioxide – a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk – is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirus
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:54am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Go take your meds Mike, you are triggered again
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:17am
- brett68
  
  Most medical centers are financially struggling and in danger of going under because no one is going to them.
  
  Of course, they want the lockdown lifted as soon as possible.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:24am
- emmess
  
  That video is explosive news
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:36am
Andrei

While moderation may have slightly reduced the amount of trash commentary on this blog it sure has hell has killed the conversational aspect, which is a crying shame IMHO
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April 26, 2020 8:11am
- JibberJabber
  
  Apparently the no1 trash commenter is locked out `til the end of the lockdown ?.
  
  16 2
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  April 26, 2020 9:26am
- [moderated]
  
  Yep, despite batman’s protestations, this blog is a shadow of its former self.
  
  24 4
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  April 26, 2020 10:07am
  - Ian Boag
    
    There must be a better unmoderated blog someplace ….
    
    8 3
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    April 26, 2020 10:32am
    - G152
      
      Well, you could always start your own blog and stop complaining on this one
      
      13 5
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      April 26, 2020 10:44am
NewInoffensiveName

I am amazed by the shallow response to what appears to be news, here on this site and almost everywhere else, especially when it comes to responding to President Trump. The same mechanism happens over and over.

In the most recent example, Trump uses loose vernacular to bait the press into losing their mind. This time it is over light and disinfectant for therapeutic purposes. Everyone in the media exclaims that Trump is advocating for the injection of the cleaners found under your sink, har, har, har…he’s such an idiot!

Well, three minutes of Google-fu and you will find that historically and currently there are abundant examples of the use of UV light INTERNALLY to treat a range of disorders as well as abundant examples of the use of hydrogen peroxide, a DISINFECTANT, to treat lung diseases. So Trump was right and the media was wrong. Again.

But the terrible thing is that nobody in the media, including this bog, ever pauses to wonder why Trump would do this. They are happier to remain ensconced in their “Trump is an idiot” position. It is uncomfortable for them to think for a moment that Trump may indeed be personally responsible for his business and political success and thus is a very smart guy that does what he does for very good and deliberate reasons.

I suggest to you here that what Trump is doing is distracting the media from what is really going on. And it works every time.

What was going on while the media was baying about imagined encouragement for us all to inject household bleach (or whatever)?

Well, I’ll tell you one thing:

The Special Prosecutor appointed by Atty Gen Barr to look into the prosecution of General Flynn released to his defence several potentially exculpatory documents previously and unlawfully withheld by the prosecution.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/24/newly-filed-court-documents-include-exculpatory-evidence-for-michael-flynn/

This Special Prosecutor is one of several Barr appointed to look into all of the dirty “Russia, Russia, Russia” attempts to take down Trump, the spying on Trump and other candidates, etc.

The release of these documents to Flynn’s defence is a huge step towards the ultimate prosecution of the whole dirty cabal involved in this attempted coup (and other crimes). Brennan, Comey, McCabe, etc., etc., etc. All of them had their pucker factor raised to infinity by this news.

And almost nobody reported on it because they were all making asses of themselves trying to show how they were so much smarter than Trump (they are not).
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April 26, 2020 8:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The most amusing thing about these desperate attempts to show Trump’s moronic ramblings were based on actual scientific knowledge is that Trump himself, the very next day claimed that his comments were ‘sarcastic’.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:59am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    …thereby maintaining the boiling churn of media distraction that he uses so masterfully.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:42am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I was a masterstroke really, using the backdrop of a crisis killing tens of thousands of Americans to troll the media.
      How we chuckled…
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:56am
      - NewInoffensiveName
        
        “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”― Mark Twain
        
        Mike, this is where you, most liberals, all socialists/communists, and the entire MSM live their lives. If you cannot take a moment to contemplate the possibility that you have been played for a fool you are condemned to remain one.
        
        Trump is playing a global game, one that involves billions of lives. He does not care if you understand it. He certainly does not care if his tactics offend you.
        
        The West has been dominated for decades by vain politicians who care more about maintaining their ‘dignified’ appearance. The MSM, and evidently you Mike, are unable to process a reality involving a politician who does not care one little bit about how you feel about him, but cares only for results. Trump is happy to play the bag guy, the buffoon, etc. if it keeps you focused on trivialities while his team goes about the important work unmolested.
        
        We used to make people learn to debate. They had to learn how to take up a view that they disagree with an defend it to the best of their ability. This skill, this ability to look at reality from multiple perspectives, to challenge your own opinions and beliefs, is almost entirely gone. Trump knows this and plays you like a fiddle as a result.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:05am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        JFC, it must really hurt tying yourself in such knots.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:57am
  - tavita
    
    I don’t think they were sarcastic, but I do think NIN is right that they were deliberately provocative. Assuming for the moment that NIN is right, what word would you use to describe his comments?
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:53am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Irresponsible? Unless you think the president is doing a great job by ‘provocatively’ rambling on about bullshit cures in the middle of a pandemic…
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So funny. I don’t know how Trump stops himself from bursting out laughing at the lame stream media.
  The took the bait, hook, line, sinker, and most of his arm. Now the lefties are all bitter and twisted – triggered
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:06am
  - barnacle bill
    
    @steve otto.
    
    Only tick I can give you for that post Steve, is a sheep tick.
    Because you are trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Thank you so much
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:40am
- MarkF
  
  And if you had spent 5 minutes on Google looking past the headlines and the debatable health sites you would have found that in more scientific testing maybe both (internal UV and H2O2) are less than therapeutic. Just look a little deeper.
  That aside, even “suggesting” injecting disinfectant is dumb. If St. Jacinda had made that statement you would be, rightfully, decrying her for doing so.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:07am
  - Inandout
    
    MarkF, you know well that the new Stuff government department would not print it, or just delete anything controversial. Jacinda must be worshipped and adored like Kim.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:21am
    - MarkF
      
      Concur IandO
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:49am
    - Paulus
      
      Isn’t Kim almost dead ?
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:36am
      - curry4me
        
        Paulus: Not according to SK media, and US intelligence.
        
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        April 26, 2020 11:42am
- Jules99
  
  Good point. What he may also be doing is drawing attention to cures that have the potential to work and have been around for a while, which might mean we have no need of a vaccine. If a disease is easily cured, why would you vaccinate healthy people? Big pharma won’t be happy to lose trillions in profits.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:09am
- tas
  
  Haha. You’re still defending Trump’s ideas even after he has called them sarcastic.
  
  Let’s put aside whether or not some of these odd treatments could work for COVID. What possible purpose is served by Trump musing about possible treatments at one of these briefings? Why can’t he just let the medical professionals do their job?
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:17am
  - Simon
    
    Tas – A Russian truther who thought Trump had started WW3 back in January.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:35am
    - tas
      
      If you go dig up my comments from January, you’ll see that I actually supported Trump on Iran:
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/01/trump_vs_iran.html#comment-2617512
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:53am
      - Simon
        
        Ok – Russian truther.
        
        4 4
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        April 26, 2020 10:02am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I watched Trump’s statement on the sarcasm, and he was really just telling the media they were being daft for not understanding his interest in possible UV or chemical anti-viral treatments. He actually continued to hope for research to find such treatments. As usual, one has to actually listen to Trump instead of buying anything the media claims.
    
    He does seem to be playing the media to get them to constantly berate and belittle him. And he’s too successful and smart to not have a reason for this. Maybe he wants to be underestimated, so weakly Democrat voters don’t bother voting at the next election?
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:42pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Tas, it is extremely likely that the medical experts had briefed Trump about it but not included it in their own presentation at the public briefing. This could all become clear in hindsight. But of course, now, as with Chloroquine, the world’s media, progressives, and vested interests in Pharma, will be furiously trying to kill these potential treatments.
    
    The initial phase from the MSM will be to try and ignore that these treatments are even being trialled, and Trump was just an ignoramus. Then they will flip to condemning the potential treatments as the stuff of “mad scientists” and trials that shouldn’t have been allowed and should be shut down. Then we will see a flurry of “failed trials” that were set up to fail by dishonest doctors beholden to vested interests.
    
    Finally the subject might be allowed to die without any apologies being made for wrongness, once thousands of people are being saved and the public everywhere are demanding that their politicians stop the dam political posturing and just give we the people the treatments that work. Maybe in some parts of the world marked by extreme Sheeple-ism, the treatments will remain forever “unfunded” because “Orange Man Bad”.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:45pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Here is Bob Jones hilariously discussing extreme Sheeple-ism:
      
      https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/04/25/a-nation-of-sheep/
      
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      April 26, 2020 1:47pm
- Nickc2
  
  Where was our MSM on this? Oh, that’s right, manufacturing ‘make Cindy look good’ stuff is more important than reporting truth. TV talking heads and news editors are more interested in protecting their $50m plus taxpayer-funded handouts.
  I don’t believe we are getting value for our money with regard to MSM handouts.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Those who are there knowingly trying to create copy out of misreporting Trump shouldn’t be surprised to get fed the popcorn dujour.
  Print first consider afterwards. That form of activism destroys journalism.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  biting the “journos” more with facts
  https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/egregious-statistical-horror-story
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:17pm
old skool reactionary

I still can’t get my head around businesses going bankrupt after just 4 weeks.

Are too many businesses over indebted?

Les Mills gym has started asking for voluntary resumption of membership payments after suspending them for the shut down.

Les Mills has been around a long time, and has an international brand. Its a big operation, the owner owns a multi million dollar mansion in one of Auckland’s richest suburbs. He has lived there for decades.

So there must be considerable wealth built up over the years in that business.

But now they are asking for voluntary customer payments?

Could Les Mills be that close to the brink?
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April 26, 2020 8:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The Mills family is reportedly worth $200 million. One might be forgiven for thinking they could weather this storm without asking customers to donate money to them.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:00am
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    You clearly have never owned a business and have no concept of what it entails.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:16am
    - old skool reactionary
      
      Well that is why I’m asking. There are lots of business savvy types on here.
      
      Could someone break it down for me?
      
      If Les Mills family is worth $200 million, why the need to go cap in hand to your customers asking them to pay for something they aren’t getting. After only a month?
      
      Is it because the $200 million is paper only? Or illiquid? Or there is $500 million in debt behind it?
      
      Imagine trying to sell your sprawling Herne Bay mansion in this market, to raise cash, LOL.
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:30am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Because Les Mills Limited is a company. The Les Mills family are something entirely different.
        
        There is a reason why the entire western world has been constructed around the limited liability company – since the Dutch invented the concept in the 1600s! It enables companies to take risks and grow, without risking the owners entire asset base. The whole of western society is based on property rights, the rule of law and the limited liability company.
        
        Les Mills the business has many many outgoings – lots of very big spaces in near central locations with rent and heat and cleaning. they are full of equipment that will have been financed.
        
        They are a heavy staff business – lots of staff and helpers (even if they are paid mostly crap)
        
        They rely on cashflow from members. Their personal trainers make their money from classes taught and people taught. The cleaners, the laundry people, the front of house, the back of house, the video and music people, the choreographers and class designers all need to get paid.
        
        Why would the business have 3 or 4 months cashflow sitting in reserves? I would assume they were efficiently leveraged, and have enough on the balance sheet to demonstrate they are a going concern.
        
        Turning back to the family wealth. Yes maybe the owners can and will dig-deep and inject capital.
        
        However why would that be prudent for a business with no customers? Your fellow trust directors would be pretty nervous about their fiduciary duties to go along with it.
        
        Now I am sure that the vanity, pride, and responsibility that the Mills family feel towards their business will lead them to do this, but of course you would tap “members” as well. Members derive benefits from membership too, and knowing that your favourite Gym is still there might be important one day.
        
        If members won’t pay, then that is another evidence point that the business is fucked.
        
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        April 26, 2020 9:57am
      - slijmbal
        
        Typically, running a business is all about the difference between two quite large numbers; income and costs. Furthermore, cash flow is invariably an issue, especially when a business is growing as the costs occur before the income the expansion generates.
        
        For instance, revenue is $1.2m p.a. and costs $1m. After whatever reinvestments in to the business I need to do I might get to pocket $100K. Note that the reinvestments are from POST taxed income so only $67K p.a. Not a lot. Depreciation really doesn’t help here until later.
        
        Lockdown hits. Next thing I know I have no income. After negotiations with the landlord, keeping staff on and the government handout I find myself with costs of $ 50k per month and no income. 3 months of that and I’m essentially working for nothing for the year. If I’m lucky I’ve got a few months of backup funds to live off but am I really going to be sitting on $1-200K of funds for a rainy day? I doubt it. That’s the sort of money I might need to survive.
        
        If we add to all of this it’s quite likely my post lockdown income won’t get back to $1.2m p.a. I’m really struggling as a business owner.
        
        An awful lot of businesses fail in the 1st 3 years as it’s a lot harder than most people realise and that’s during good circumstances. Few would have significant funds.
        
        You might say this is only really targeting companies in trouble but I personally know of several businesses that have been going for 10+ years who really don’t know whether they are viable in the future after the current costs of lockdown are factored in.
        
        Note, with business partners, I owned a business with multi-million dollar turnover for about 15 years. Through good times and bad.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:10pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “after only a month”
        
        What effin’ ‘month’??
        
        Maybe Les Mills is considering that this ‘month’ of lockdown is really to a very similar who-knows-how-long Level 3, in which they won’t be able to operate?
        
        And that even if we’re told ‘2 weeks’ or something, we have NO reason to believe the government liars?
        
        And that even if Level 2 is allowed after another month, gyms are places in which people sweat and pant and in which social distancing with constant cleaning of equipment would at least reduce client numbers, so that they are very unlikely to get back to full usage for many months?
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:51pm
      - guardianista
        
        When someone like nbr makes these calculations they look at the gym business that might make say $10 a year and sat that that is worth $180m. They then add any property they see and bingo they have an amount. The owners might have little in the way of cash resources to fund a couple of months of no revenue and the $180m part of the wealth is just an illusion.
        
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        April 26, 2020 6:29pm
    - Inandout
      
      kwkiwi, neither has our government.
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:38am
      - Joe Kerr
        
        There is the truth, the laughable idea that New Zealand ever produces any “surplus”, when it is in fact always carrying debt.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:17am
  - Simon
    
    “The Mills family is reportedly worth $200 million. One might be forgiven for thinking they could weather this storm without asking customers to donate money to them.”
    
    Lol rich pricks eh?.
    
    This is what left wing twitter looks like – except without the anger management issues.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:33am
  - EssenX
    
    Don’t the Mills family donate heavily to the Greens? That probably sums up their business acumen.
    
    In all seriousness, many people, including senior people in Government, criticising businesses do not understand cash flow. This is affecting the quality of policy response and Armageddon will follow when the wage subsidy ends. The inability to understand cashflow will probably cost them the election.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:36am
    - Ruahine
      
      I am sure there will some ‘assistance’ coming soon. The Gov’t must have some spare money somewhere.
      
      6 3
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      April 26, 2020 9:46am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Phillip Mills, who now seems to be the front person for the Les Mills empire, is a known Green Party donor, and a supporter of the coalition. I’m sure they’re getting paid for the fitness sessions that air daily on TVNZ.
      
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      April 26, 2020 9:52am
- fernglas
  
  A month’s turnover for a lot of businesses is not only the equivalent of their annual profit but their operating capital for the month to come. Home Depot is also wanting people to “pay now, buy later”. There are plenty of others working on the same model, so if you haven’t the income for this month, you can’t buy the product for next. The notion that every business should have a 3 month slush fund up their sleeve just isn’t right. Not only that, but once these businesses resume, they will not go straight back to full productivity for many reasons, mostly lack of demand, and are likely to be worse off as they will again be up for rent, wages and other outgoings without a corresponding increase in income.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:10am
  - artemisia
    
    One of ours is back at work Tuesday, may take a week or two to be back to normal work bookings. Employer received the 12 week wage subsidy for the small staff and ours received that plus a top up from annual leave to the full weekly pay (by agreement).
    
    Ok, so now he is back at work, should the employer be paying some of the subsidy back? Even though other costs continued over the L4 lockdown, there are extra costs at L3, and future bookings are not properly locked in yet.
    
    There are all these cases where employers are being audited, but for what circumstances? Certainly some employers back running Tuesday will be several weeks pay up per employee.
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:08am
- Simon
  
  Les Mills like any business need future cash flow. Debt or not. Also people’s preferences and spending will change – apart from those hundreds of thousands unemployed.
  
  For a gym generally if people stop paying they might find other alternatives such as home gym or going outside for exercise rather than spending on gym membership. Then there is no gym business.
  
  Its a different world now. Now you know something that all the [Del. – Mod] in Wellington dont know.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:13am
  - fernglas
    
    Can we have a competition to guess the word that that was [Del.-Mod] above? I go for “numpties”
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:29am
- Tony Norriss
  
  Not just four weeks though, is it? Though going four weeks without income is pretty difficult for any business.
  
  It is also the trading conditions after that period. For instance, how many people will be interested in renewing their gym memberships when they are worried about their job security.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:13am
  - old skool reactionary
    
    Well they are asking now, at the 4 week mark. Sure I can understand 3 months down the track when this might be a full blown economic depression they start asking for charity donations.
    
    And if it is true the Les Mill’s family is worth $200 million, can’t they use some of that first before asking $60k salary consumer/worker bees for a hand out?
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The answer is probably that the fortune is ‘their money’ and they have no obligation to inject any of it into a limited liability business that might be close to collapse.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:01am
      - david
        
        Again mma, the point whistled past your ear and went straight through to the keeper untouched by human hand.
        The Mills family value is likely to be based on a valuation of their holdings in the gym business. What do you reckon has happened to that value now? Duh
        Remember that the Rich List values would have been calculated 18-24 months ago so bear no relevance to either today’s valuation which today may well be negative, or to any member of that family’s ability to write cheque’s and have them honoured.
        Rule one: first engage brain THEN engage mouth (or finger in this case)
        
        You’re mind me of the proud Viking standing on the beach being told by the leader “ next time remember it is first Rape, then plunder, THEN burn”
        
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        April 26, 2020 12:42pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Because as said above:
      
      1. Its a company, it relies on cashflow
      2. 7 weeks with no income is a major, and there is no guarantee they can open in May, if Cindy makes another “captains call”
      3. Will the punters actually come back, how soon and how many:
      a. Gyms rely on having many more members paying than actually show up. will those non-attendees bother to renew?
      b. Will the customers have spare income to pay for a luxury consumption good like a gym membership anymore?
      
      If I were Les Mills, I’d be feeling a bit sweaty. This is going to be a very, very, bad year. As Fernglas said, this is likely a year of negative profit at best.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:12am
    - Poppa
      
      I suspect they have asked for cash to test the future security of their client base. If no customers going forward the business has no future
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:20am
- Jules99
  
  Businesses are not basing their plans on 4 weeks, but what will happen 1 year out from now. We haven’t seen the true fallout yet. For some businesses it will make sense to close now and avoid further losses, and start up again when the economy turns around which could be years away. You can be sure that Les Mills is already planning well ahead, perhaps closing some less profitable centres and maintaining their core business.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:13am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Jules99
    
    I think that is right. Les Mills (I am a member and got a call from the owner of the Takapuna gym) will be very worried that members will not rejoin. Many won’t be able to do so. They wont have jobs, or alternatively have had a pay cut, or own a business that is now in challenging circumstances.
    
    So all businesses have to think ahead and analyse their client base to find out who will be least affected in respect of their income.
    
    It is going to be really tough over the next year. And that is why Simon is in with a chance. A better recovery programme from National should be enough to change the political calculus in september.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:43am
    - fernglas
      
      Their worst problem is not whether people will be able to rejoin, but whether they will want to. People have been scared witless by an endless procession of statements designed to scare them into staying apart. Those people are not going to want to go back into close proximity of others, even when the all clear is sounded. It’s about time some positive messaging is begun. How about “If you are under 50 and otherwise healthy, your chances of dying from this illness are less than winning lotto”, or “No-one in this country has died of Covid-19 alone”
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:14am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Well said Wayne (wow, I said that) Totally agree.
      
      Asking if members will start paying their dues again is a very good way of testing the client base. Question one: Do we still have one?
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:15am
    - Jack5
      
      A good time to be selling home gym gear.
      
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      April 26, 2020 12:03pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “I still can’t get my head around businesses going bankrupt after just 4 weeks.”
  
  Because many businesses have fixed overheads. Les Mills needs to pay wages, rent on the premises and it needs to finance the very high cost of that gym equipment. Running Les Mills without customers would not be much less than with customers.
  
  Les Mills won’t go broke in 4 weeks. Not many businesses will. The real problems will emerge in 3 to 4 months. If 50 percent of people stop going to the gym, the industry will have a shake out. Gyms are vulnerable because people will cancel for two reasons. First, they are scared of the virus. Second they can’t afford gym fees any longer.
  
  A better example is nail salons. They are under capitalised and usually run by Thai or Vietnamese immigrants. They are a luxury item that people can ditch, and they involve close contact. Goodbye 60 percent of nail salons. Not in 4 weeks. But definitely in 4-6 months.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:15am
  - old skool reactionary
    
    Yeah those nail salons popped up all over Auckland the last decade like mushrooms. They look cheap and nasty, full of poker faced asian female underlyings. No doubt the work conditions are 3rd world but just enough to qualify for a pathway to NZ citizenship immigration scam.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:42am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      They are also people, paying the rent, feeding their families OSR!
      
      While I am not a nail salon kinda Deity, I do hope my local Chinese massage people survive, they are good people and do a great job!
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:18am
      - Papalazarou
        
        I hope there is a happy ending
        
        7 1
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        April 26, 2020 1:22pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah, that is not quite the case. I am a regular customer. The staff are friendly and the hygiene is first rate. Think about it – there are so many salons, that any place that was substandard would go broke – customers have many alternatives. It would only be if the Government took over nail salons :”Kiwi Nails” that they would become cheap and nasty. 🙂 Competition is your friend, including in nail salons.
      
      I can’t comment on the citizenship point.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:22am
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Can I just interrupt you there about the paying wages thing: government has subsidised wages 585.50 per full time worker, and 350 for part-time (under 20 hours) per week.
    Some employers are topping up these payments, but there is no particular reason Les Mills should have a wage bill while shut down.
    If Les Mills have an ADLS rent agreement they won’t be paying that either, but there will be other overheads.
    I suspect Les Mills are checking their customers future intent so they can complete some business planning.
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:05am
    - fernglas
      
      It’s when they open up that the problems arise. Paying out the overheads, staff and so on, but no customers? Disaster, and so few can see it coming.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:24am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Not sure I agree there Shaun. If the staff are employees, then there is an obligation to pay wages.
      
      I am sure that LM is structured so most are casuals or contractors (green voting capitalists are good like that!) and will have simply been let go – maybe they are getting the subsidy?
      
      For actual staff, the employer is obliged to pay the wage or lay them off – incurring more liability.
      
      of course employers may negotiate with staff to reduce pay, but that requires willing seller.
      
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      April 26, 2020 11:16am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I’m a member of Les Mills. All the personal trainers are independent entities. They actually pay Les Mills for the right to use the gym. The only employees at the gyms are the receptionist, and the folk that go around cleaning equipment.
        
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        April 26, 2020 6:39pm
  - trout
    
    Bad example. When lockdowns were eased in the states there were queues outside the nail salons; money or no money. I am told on good authority (SWMBO) that in this modern world a female does not want to be seen without her nails done!
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:22am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah, nah. If people hit tough times stuff like nails is the first to go. Those high end “beauty salons” that sell women seaweed moisturiser for $80 a jar – they are toast. Expect a huge shakeout. A friend of mine runs one of those outfits in Wellington. She has women coming in once a month dropping $500 a time. Boom.
      
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      April 26, 2020 6:43pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  One business is not the same as another
  
  Places like Gyms, Hairdressers, Dentists have high set-up costs and rents to service. They probably rely on a steady flow of customers through the year.. and a shutdown of 8 weeks or more is going to take a sizeable chunk out of their annual income.
  
  Chrysanthemum growers will have spent the year growing and tending stock ready for release to Florists and flower markets for Mother’s Day – May 10th…They are probably going to lose most of their income this year.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:31am
  - old skool reactionary
    
    “high set-up costs and rents”
    
    Les Mills flagship is decades old and on prime CBD land. They own the land.
    
    They have done some big renovations and built a flash new multilevel carpark which had construction delays. Maybe there is a lot of debt there?
    
    They have branches all over Auckland, I don’t know how much debt they have.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:46am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Assume lots. Carparks don’t finance themselves. Les Mills is all over NZ. I believe they are also in the States. I expect the company is in a world of hurt right now.
      
      Just like all the other businesses that provide luxury and “non-essential” services to us all
      (hairdressers, nail salons, mechanics, tradies, contractors, lawnmowing franchises, retail stores, greengrocers, butchers, bakers, manufacturers, cafes, bars, restuarants, growers……)
      
      In an economy every business is essential. We are going to learn this good and hard.
      
      We will also learn that an economy is an interlinked system. Your cafe employs people who feed the kids, they buy from suppliers, who also have families, they employ accountants and IT people, they buy equipment, they use power…..
      
      Sadly the kindy at the beehive has blithely ignored all of that to save us from a computer model!
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:24am
      - artemisia
        
        “In an economy every business is essential. We are going to learn this good and hard.”
        
        We should be digging up valuable stuff under the ground and under the sea. And making sure the protesters and activists know that the perfect is the enemy of the good. Especially for the next few years.
        
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        April 26, 2020 11:18am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      If we don’t know anything it is pointless speculating. However I am fairly sure there will be fewer gyms 12 months from now.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:24am
    - david
      
      OSR, read Wayne Mapp’s comment above carefully. ‘The owner of the branch called ….’. What does that tell you about the ownership structure? Franchises is what. Think it through just what is the impact if the franchises start falling over?
      Remember Rule One.
      
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      April 26, 2020 12:52pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Ironically, chrysanthemums are the funeral flower of choice in Japan (a bit like white lillies in the West).
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Many small (and some large) businesses exist on cashflow. In a stable society the incomings net of regular outgoings may provide a workable environment with a small surplus. That is the truth for many. Smarter businesses do not have large cash buffers, it gets invested in development–those buffers can be provided by a bank in some circumstances. Continuity is a key and that applies to customers and supply including staff.
  To suggest that small business should have large buffers shows a lack of business experience and required understanding.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:26am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    “Smarter businesses do not have large cash buffers, it gets invested in development“
    
    Or taken out as dividends
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:43am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      To take out the buffer puts the whole business at risk. That not being smart, its’s the quick way to failure.
      
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      April 26, 2020 12:20pm
- JackRabbit
  
  It all depends on the profit model. If a business makes a 5% net trading profit in a service based industry, that means anywhere from 85-90% of operating costs will not stop.
  
  Profit may not be retained and paid out to shareholders, after all that is why shareholders invest money in the first place.
  
  If turnover over several gyms is $1,000,000 per week, and that gone to $0, the business is going to go backwards at $850k per week. Gyms may be out of operation until Level l or Level 0 depending on Miss Frowny face. And even then people may avoid gyms altogether because of reduced income and still working from home. Mant may find with more time at home, it is easier to buy a cross trainer on finance. So the gym outlets go backward $30-40 million in 12 months.
  
  As business grow, excess capital is used to fund that growth. In the normal course of events, most businesses have business interruption insurance. A much better solution than putting $40m under the mattress, which they don’t have because it will need to be used to fund growth and improve the bottom line profit %.
  
  Unlike an earthquake, which is a “mother earth shaking event” the lock down is a “mother land politcal shakedown event”, and as such not covered by insurance. So yes, most businesses were prepared with business insurance, but not for a government order lock down.
  
  No actuary can give you the odds on when some political figure may attempt to abuse a situation and seize power, and so there is no insurance cover.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    5% is not an uncommon margin over a wide range of businesses. It’s the -5%’s that cause trouble.
    
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    April 26, 2020 5:25pm
- Philview
  
  It isn’t just 4 weeks. The Country started locking down in early March long before Jacinda made her call. At the time there was no testing going on and people were getting concerned and staying away from places.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:41am
The Proper Ghandi

Look at these meathead cops. Drunk with power and ready to tazer someone waiting for chicken in a supermarket.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121270196/coronavirus-police-officer-holds-taser-while-questioning-shoppers-over-covid19-distancing
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April 26, 2020 8:27am
- JamesP
  
  What I see is an elderly officer whose duty required him to approach a group including a gang member who asked to not be named alone. Consequently, and no doubt based on his experience, he decided to prepare an option if things went pear shaped. You see drunk with power. I see concerned for own safety. Seeing as the Taser is neither turned on nor directed at said gang member I would also challenge the assertion he is ready to use it.
  
  Try not to conflate the feelings / thoughts you have for the lockdown and it’s general enforcement with this specific set of circumstances.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:17am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    I think you conflate your prejudice towards gang members – similar to the cop – as justifying the assumption that anyone who doesn’t rigidly conform to an arbitrary edict (of which there is not even any evidence of the guy doing so, other than simply standing waiting) should potentially have 50,000 volts applied to them as a first resort.
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:32am
  - JibberJabber
    
    LoL, don`t you just love how feral gang scum get their panties in a twist when they feel they are not getting the treatment they deny to their victims, all of a sudden a Basic Courtesy becomes important to them.
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:00am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Elderly officer”…. you cheeky bugger 🙂
    
    Cop doing his job, gang member too fucking lazy to cook a chicken, I would imagine the initial response to the staff member was threatening, bleating wanker of a gang member throwing his weight around and probably didn’t like being shown up by said “elderly cop” …. you cheeky bugger 😉
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The guys were undesirables and gang members? So what? Waiting for pre ordered chicken is now a crime?
  This shit belongs at Jacinda’s feet
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:18am
- Ruahine
  
  Leave Cindy’s friends alone. He has probably just spent a long night bullying and intimidating people out driving from their places of work.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:39am
- quarterpack
  
  First All Blacks defeated by an underwhelming English team in WC final….now,even our gang members are turning to putty
  , squealing to the media at the sight of a middle aged cop. I blame the Labour Government and our feminist educational system
  
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  April 27, 2020 8:07am
KevO'Brien

Social Distance questioned as arbitrary:
https://www.rt.com/uk/486881-uk-guidelines-rule-thumb/
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April 26, 2020 8:28am
Paulus

Being an Octogenarian am I the only one who is very tired of being preached at by our dictatorial appointed Prime Minister/now Health Minister and everything else about how I am expected to behave.
I have stopped watching television because wherever I looked she was there, even in the adverts.
I hope to be able to vote her out in November – so two blues whatever.
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April 26, 2020 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One uptick is not enough. Many are sick of seeing her dial and socialist propaganda every time we open our eyes.
  Illegitimi non Carborundum
  
  48 3
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  April 26, 2020 9:38am
  - JackRabbit
    
    She has been reading and applying what she learnt in “Venezuela for Dummies, how to overthrow democracy in one term”.
    
    16 1
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    April 26, 2020 11:25am
  - Sacha
    
    And I am sick of the endless interuptions to radio programmes. They are falling upon increasingly deaf ears –
    
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    April 26, 2020 8:23pm
- yossarian
  
  I haven’t watch not one of the Public Broadcasts, it will irritate me too much and I‘m rationing my meds.
  
  The news sites pretty print word for word anyway, along with their praise of how the great one is all seeing.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is actually fun. A competition to see if they can tell more lies than the day before.
    Then if the question is too hard, she just says ‘I don’t agree with that’ and dismisses it.
    
    32 2
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    April 26, 2020 10:21am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Covid-19 bingo, anyone?
      
      12 1
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      April 26, 2020 10:45am
  - emmess
    
    I watched part of the first one with my 12 year old daughter. We both laughed all the way through it, her tone of talking to us like primary school kids was hilarious.
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:50am
- adamsmith1922
  
  Right on sir, as a septuagenarian I hope to vote the detestable Ardern, the vindictive Peters,the lunatic Shaw and their gaggle of incompetents out later this year.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I am in that club too. I have never known a NZ PM so media hungry–Ardern reminds me of Megan Markle! She is an evident dullard and immature. Her govt are no better.
  Thanks Winston for revealing the ultimate corruption possible in our electoral system.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:30am
  - Paulus
    
    Markle is a damn sight more presentable and better looking than Ardern !
    
    12 3
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    April 26, 2020 10:40am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Markle has an agenda.Poor Harry.
      
      Jacinda lives in a magic fairy bubble. Unfortunately for us, her wishes are our pennies.
      
      20 2
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      April 26, 2020 10:47am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      but the same need to jump in front of every camera!
      
      At least Markel scored a rich sugardaddy, all Cindy gets to play with is this lousy little country full of whiners who aren’t grateful enough!
      
      13 1
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      April 26, 2020 11:20am
      - Paulus
        
        Markel is pretty rich in her own rights (at present) from her real acting.
        Cindy is an actor too but will never earn what Markel has!
        She is not good enough.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:19pm
tas

Trump’s defenders here were busy yesterday explaining that his disinfectant/light on the inside comments were a good suggestion that should be looked into.

Now Trump says it was a “very sarcastic” question to reporters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J019d2Cz0jA

Here’s the original video again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wcQYA-ol_A
I don’t detect any sarcasm there and he’s talking to his scientific advisors, not reporters.

Even Trump won’t defend his comments. How do you reconcile this?
Or are you going to finally accept that Trump is a fool and a liar?
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April 26, 2020 8:32am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Trump is living in your head rent free.
  
  45 4
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  April 26, 2020 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And he is staying there LOL
    
    27 4
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    April 26, 2020 9:16am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Bloody Squatters!
    
    10 0
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    April 26, 2020 10:03am
- All_on_Red
  
  Sure, Trump tells lies and he’s sometimes foolish. Often even.
  Now do the Democrats. Pelosi, Schiff, Adams, Waters, Nadler et all.
  That aside.
  Are you going to finally accept that the Steele Dossier was lies and came from Russian disinformation given to Steele and paid for by Clinton and the DNC via their Law Firm Perkins Coles.
  Because Horowitz the DOJ IG does and all the FBI source material proving it is now unclassified.
  So the Obama/Clinton’s/DNC conspired with Russia to wreck their opponents Election.
  Seen Bill Barrs comments lately?
  Lol
  
  Oh, and Flynns innocent.
  And I see all charges against the Russian Troll hackers have been withdrawn. There is no evidence.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:18am
  - tas
    
    Deflection…
    
    5 14
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    April 26, 2020 9:34am
    - All_on_Red
      
      I answered your question
      “Sure, Trump tells lies and he’s sometimes foolish. Often even.”
      So no deflection.
      You’re in Denial.
      Lol
      
      13 4
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      April 26, 2020 9:51am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Wow. You admit Trump lies and is foolish. Perhaps we will disagree about how often he lies and how stupid he is. But you justify your support for a stupid liar with some weak ‘not as bad as’ bullshit.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:05am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mikenmildagain
        
        All_on_Red said “sometimes” foolish. Unlike yourself where your are “always” foolish. If “sometimes” is say 20% then that means 80% of the time he is not foolish. Unlike you, where 0% of the time you are not foolish.
        
        6 1
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        April 26, 2020 11:31am
- Simon
  
  Turmp counters fake news because low information Dems / left tards who believed fake news in the first place will likely self harm from drinking Clorox.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    So, you think it’s fine for Trump to peddle dangerous miracle cures, on the basis that following his advice is more likely to kill people you hate?
    [Deleted – mod.]
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:08am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You need to get a new copywriter.
      
      19 2
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      April 26, 2020 10:32am
      - Tall Man
        
        He needs to get a new attitude and then maybe he’ll get a life rather than “enjoy” life trying to insult people on here.
        
        10 1
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        April 26, 2020 11:28am
The Proper Ghandi

Random cute animal videos:

https://twitter.com/humorandanimals/status/1253307004656988160

https://twitter.com/humorandanimals/status/1252693837132300289
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April 26, 2020 8:41am
kowtow

Stuff want us to feel sorry for gang thugs now .

Clearly from the story the shop was concerned about the thug’s behaviour to call the cops .

But stuff wants us to be outraged at the Lone Cop .
So much for stuff supporting essential workers.

Why doesn’t stuff run a special on the illegal road blocks, instead of running propaganda for the gangs?

“One of the shoppers, a gang member who asked to not be named, said he was “blown away” and “upset” by the “confronting” situation and felt he had been unfairly targeted by the officers and supermarket staff.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121270196
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April 26, 2020 8:44am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Well clearly he wasn’t “blown away”
  
  pity really…. /sarc
  
  This is one of those times where my libertarian rule of law deity clashes with my knowledge that gangsters are criminal scum, and proud of it!
  
  Why was the cop called to the shop – and why won’t stuff cover that?
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:23am
Biscuit

How Moral Are You?

A MORAL DECISION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.
This test has only one question, but it’s a very important one. By giving an honest answer, you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely and completely fictional situation in which you will have to make a decision.
Only you will know the results, so remember that your answer needs to be completely honest.

THE SITUATION:
You are in Palm Beach with chaos all around you caused by a hurricane. There is a flood of biblical proportions. You’re a photojournalist working for a major newspaper, and you’re caught in the middle of this disaster. The situation is nigh hopeless. You’re trying to shoot career-making photos. Houses and people swirl around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is unleashing all its destructive fury.

THE TEST:
Suddenly you see a man in the water. He is fighting for his life trying not to be taken down with the debris. You move closer. Somehow this man looks like…WOW — it’s Donald Trump. At the same time you realize the raging waters are about to take him under forever.

YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS:
You can save Donald Trump’s life OR you can shoot a dramatic Pulitzer-Prize-winning photo, documenting the last minute of one of the world’s most powerful and evil men.

YOUR DECISION:
Okay, here’s the question, and please give an honest answer:

WOULD YOU:

(A) select high contrast colour film, or
(B) go with the classic simplicity of black-and-white?
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April 26, 2020 8:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  (A) Then take photos of all of the morons taking photos
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:20am
- All_on_Red
  
  Black and White of course. It would probably look better on all the Tee Shirts you’d get printed with your photo.
  You’d make millions.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Neither.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:34am
- JibberJabber
  
  So the assumption here is that, Democrat voters are of the same ilk as Richard Pusey.
  Sociopaths?
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:53pm
Ford Prefect

Now would be a good time for a census, dont you think.
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April 26, 2020 8:46am
lazza

So… any of you Trumpers out there still rootin for him? … after last week’s insanity.

Question your own? …
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April 26, 2020 8:55am
- JerJer
  
  Absolutely. Trump landslide 2020.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    Beats the the other guy, what’s his name ……….
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:35am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Yes. Since most of his decisions have turned out to be correct. And that the alternative President would be absolutely terrifying…
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm_bVewT4xk
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:01am
rouppe

Remember Bio diesel from algae?

Another green initiative that was all talk and no action.
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April 26, 2020 8:56am
- rockape
  
  Now you know why I would rather not see people’s KiwiSaver I vested in “ green” projects.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:09am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Should have labelled it Snake-oil.
  
  I see one of its leading proponents has held very influential roles:
  
  Nick Gerritsen is a New Zealand based thinker, visionary catalyst, and impact entrepreneur. During his legal career, he advised leading corporates on intellectual property and later enjoyed a string of successful business ventures, most notably in radio, life sciences, and software sectors. He has been a consultant to New Zealand On Air, Radio New Zealand, Te Māngai Pāho (the Māori Broadcasting Funding Agency), Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and Government Chief Digital Office.
  https://tuiainnovation.com/our-principals
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:01am
  - amospicton
    
    What kind of pretentiousness does it take to allow oneself to be described as a “visionary catalyst”???
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:08pm
fernglas

An interesting discussion in the BMJ of the fact that there are many different presentations for Covid-19. https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1470 So the “cough, fever, shortness of breath” mantra could be completely missing not only those who are asymptomatic but also those who are atypical. Since our knowledge of the prevalence of the virus is so reliant on self-reporting in the absence of comprehensive testing, we could be sitting on many more cases than they would have us believe, both active and recovered.
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April 26, 2020 8:58am
MrTips

Random question for the day:

The WHO sound concerned about post-infection immunity from COVID19……..

So why are they and the UN pushing for vaccine discovery and production? Have they forgotten natural infection and vaccination rely on the same biological basis of immunity?

Doesn’t matter if natural immunity only lasts couple years – it’s enough to get back into things and for vaccination discovery. Can’t be related to annual ticket clipping could it? Surely not…..
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April 26, 2020 8:59am
- JamesP
  
  Of course it might be true, but it seems to be an extraordinarily claim with large negative impacts on people with the misfortune (Or not depending on your view) or having suffered the virus. A high level of proof should be required. Please don’t waste my time with a link to a “retested positive” news story (anecdote). I’ve read them.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Big Pharma have political friends. An old remedy that works is deemed useless without patent rights.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:37am
fernglas

Here’s a backdoor way of getting a take on the opinions of one of England’s smartest people.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/25/lift-the-lockdown-on-the-say-so-of-a-tory-with-an-empathy-bypass-no-thanks-catherine-bennett
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April 26, 2020 9:01am
Akarak

I’m sorry, but standing outside your gate on a day of such national significance as Anzac Day does not represent any form of leadership to me!
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April 26, 2020 9:02am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What would you have had them do in the circumstances?
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:24am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Always with the questions Albert.
    Why is that?
    
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    April 26, 2020 9:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Because the answers to his questions often reveal that those to whom they are directed have no fucking idea?
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:11am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’ve always replied to the Questions Albert Ross has put to me.
        Don’t think I’ve had much in the way of feedback from him though.
        
        Still, he doesn’t really want my replies, does he?
        
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        April 26, 2020 12:17pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Because I’m interested to know the answer.
      
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      April 26, 2020 10:38am
      - Akarak
        
        Two uncles killed in France WW1, grandfather wounded and repatriated WW1, father a Pilot Officer RNZAF WW2, wife’s father an Officer in the Maori Battalion WW2, wife’s uncle served in Italy WW2 and I served in the NZ Defence Forces 1966-69. I think that gives me the right to comment on the actions of those who claim to represent me.
        You are entitled to your own opinion. I don’t speak on your behalf. I believe your question to be rhetorical.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I don’t think Albert was questioning your right to remember your family members’ service, Akarak. I believe he was asking what form of Anzac Day commemorations you would have found acceptable on Anzac Day, given the present conditions.
        For me, gathering with neighbours at our letter boxes and listening together to the bugle call was almost eerily significant.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Didn’t you catch Scott Morrison’s address to the Anzac Day commemorative service at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fGCfT0i_No
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:13am
    - Ruahine
      
      Very convincingly delivered.
      Have been in Australia a few times on Anzac Day. They do it quite well.
      
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      April 26, 2020 1:56pm
  - Sacha
    
    To lead, implies going first.
    She should have done it on Thursday.
    
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    April 26, 2020 8:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What shit will she think of for ANZAC next year?
  PTPM hates ANZAC you know
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:29am
- Nickc2
  
  Lets face it, if she wasn’t appointed PM, none of those three would even be out of bed at that time of day, let alone stand outside to celebrate ANZAC Day.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:37am
kwkiwigirl

Getting utterly sick of the day after day photos of Ardern on the herald website. And the anti Bridges articles being written. He has done a very good job from what I can see. The $50m bailout thrown to media is just going to perpetuate more government propaganda through these channels. I actually have started to visit overseas news sites more these days.
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April 26, 2020 9:19am
- Lee C
  
  I have decided to ignore The Herald.
  
  It is an echo-chamber.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Don’t go there – your mental and physical health will be much better.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:31am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Facebook is your Daddy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcSUGxL8SVo
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April 26, 2020 9:21am
All_on_Red

Shouldn’t we really be at Level 2 with the vulnerable remains in Lockdown?

How are we going to get Population immunity?
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April 26, 2020 9:27am
- dave_c_
  
  I don’t think they want us to. It would derail the agenda.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:33am
  - Ruahine
    
    The agenda is to kill Small Business. The Claytons Alert Level 3 extension is to make sure it stays dead.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:52pm
    - Nickc2
      
      You are right. In Labour Party think, if unions can’t control a business, it has no right to exist. Small businesses are no exception.
      
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      April 26, 2020 2:08pm
- JamesP
  
  How are we going to get Population immunity?
  Just pray we aren’t asking that question 2 years down the track with no vaccine in sight, comrade.
  
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  April 26, 2020 9:33am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’s not yet clear whether herd immunity even exists for C-19. For reference, C-19 is a ‘flu, & there’s no herd immunity to the common ‘flu.
    
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    April 26, 2020 10:52am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I don’t hold much hope for a vaccine, just as there is none for the common cold.
    
    What I do hope for is a successful treatment regime to bring 99.9% of cases back from the drastic symptoms and to avoid any long term illnesses eg lung function, liver function, stroke in those that survive.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:22pm
- chaos
  
  What immunity
  
  People who have had it are getting it again
  
  China had a few who had it recovered got it again and died
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:44am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, China does have a few people. 1,438,176,942 to be precise.
    
    How many ‘got it, recovered, got it again and died’?
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:55pm
I remember when

Why, why, why?
USA,UK,France,Spain,Italy,Germany
652.83 million 125,565 deaths
Japan,Philipines,Indonesia,Vietnam,Thailand,Australia,Malaysia,Taiwan
746.06 1725 Deaths
SURELY, these figures tell us something about Covid-19.
Is it Heat, Sunlight, UV rays or just much better ability to deal with this sort of event?
My earlier posts of these figures have not got a response from either side of the argument.
Are the answers to the Covid-19 outbreak in there somewhere?
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April 26, 2020 9:30am
- Jules99
  
  Could even be odd things in the diet? The Japanese, for example, have high levels of iodine in their cultural diet which protects them from all sorts of diseases.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:48am
- chaos
  
  We got lucky
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:42am
I remember when

We keep hearing that covid-19 behaves differently in every country so the facts change. Is this really true?
How much have the facts really changed since the Diamond Princess and the Wuhan? About the only possibly new details relating to live on surfaces at different temperatures, humidity and UV/light and possible blood clots in US and outbreaks on children’s feet.
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April 26, 2020 9:40am
WaveyDavey

Anyone else seen the disgraceful lead article on Stuff at the mo?

Headline:

“$150k ‘profit’ in wage subsidy
Auckland construction boss says he’s pocketed $150k from the Government wage subsidy “lolly scramble”, and he has no intention of paying it back.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121254612/coronavirus-business-owner-pockets-150000-from-government-wage-subsidy-and-hes-not-paying-it-back

And yet the story says:

“I’m going to use it to pay my staff and keep my cashflow up and ensure that my guys have still got a job in five months time.”

So this guy is named & shamed for doing exactly what he’s meant to be doing f*cking disgraceful
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April 26, 2020 10:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Um, the article is quite clear that the guy claims to have made a ‘profit’ from the wage subsidy and that he is keeping that money in case he needs it.
  He also described the wage subsidy as a ‘stupid idea’. What a great guy…
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:45am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    No it isn’t clear Mike
    
    He isn’t quoted as saying that anywhere in the story – those are the writer’s words.
    
    “…says he has made $150,000 profit from the Government’s wage subsidy, and he has no intention of paying it back.”
    
    Not quoted anywhere in the piece.
    
    Regardless of whether or not he’s a great guy or a prick – putting words in someone’s mouth is reprehensible.
    
    This is Stuff instigating a pile-on and in the comments online he’s already being accused of fraud.
    
    I’ve spoken to the guy concerned and he’s already lawyering-up
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:37am
- Jules99
  
  Yeah, I thought it was a bit odd. They jumped on the story and then discovered he was not in favour of the subsidy and had survived hard times before without any help. Not the message of dependency they wanted to hear.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:46am
- Ipanema69
  
  Yes agree, however there is a much wider issue here.
  
  What are the obligations under the scheme if the business returns to normal (or close to it) operation under level 3?
  
  Given that the scheme pays out for 12 weeks in one lump sum there are potentially many firms who could profit from this situation.
  
  If the government hasn’t though this through there may well be nothing that they can do to recover the cash.
  
  The comment from MSD in the article is very vague , and doesn’t specifically cite a condition in the agreement between the crown and the recipient that allows for claw back in the event of the business restarting prior to the 12 week period. This indicates that such a clause probably doesn’t exist.
  
  Like anything with the Jacinda lead COL this program will have been rushed and ill thought through. I would be prepared to bet a considerable sum that they won’t be able to legally recover anything from the business owner in question.
  
  I’d go as far to say that company directors probably have a fiduciary duty to take the assistance if they legally qualify for it. Equally speaking they probably also have a fiduciary duty not to return it if there is no legal reason to do so.
  
  Robbo may wish to take some of the institute of directors courses on this matter. However I would have preferred that he had done this prior to kicking a lazy 10.2 billion of our dollars out the door.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:56am
  - Paulus
    
    This is only the first of the 10.2 Billion 12 weeks payments – when employers and employees catch on that they can get a handout, and the employees like doing sweet fa from home, like an extended holiday, as they are doing currently, it will have to be topped up again prior to the election.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The employee subsidy is conditional. Employers have to be able to show a 30% loss from the same period last year. Also they have to pay out the subsidy in full for the related wage period as well as top up the employees pay so they get at least 80% of their regular wage.
  
  It’s not really free. No revenue is expected and the employer has to find the difference in cash between the weekly subsidy and the 80%. Each pay period stands on its own. A lump sum of money for 12 weeks may be tempting but audits were promised and are happening. The payments were made rapidly on an honesty basis so a vigorous follow up is reasonable.
  The cash pressures are not all removed. The one sustained by the employers each week has to be provided for but not out of next weeks employee subsidy.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:10am
  - Rob2
    
    You do not have to make up the 80%.
    
    That is conditional on your ability to do that.
    
    Effectively it is a 12-week wage subsidy.
    You will have already paid out 3 days of stat holidays with another one in June. They are not covered by the subsidy. ( and neither is holiday pay.)
    Effectively you have a 12 week and four days wage subsidy less stat holidays.
    One would expect once you return to work that you would make full wage payments using the subsidy to pay the first $585 conditional on your turnover meeting the -30% in any month from the same period last year.
    
    The whole thing was a stuff up which is normal for labour clowns.
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:24am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We may have small differences but that only shows how poorly documented the whole subsidy is.
      Rule making again on the fly?
      
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      April 26, 2020 2:29pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Yep the key point is in the wording
    
    have to be able to show a 30% loss
    
    I’ve filled this in online several times now and it doesn’t ask you to do anything other than affirm that you expect to experience a 30% fall in revenue compared to normal
    
    So it’s nothing to do with making a loss it’s about income – you could still make a profit and be eligible.
    
    Also, if say you were planning to shut up shop for 3 months to travel overseas for NZ’s Winter and you now couldn’t go, although you had budgeted for zero income in those 3 months you are entitled to the subsidy as you would be comparing the projected income to last years actual income.
    
    I might know of somebody who has done exactly that for several STR businesses and been paid out in full.
    
    Note this is the business subsidy not the wages subsidy
    
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    April 26, 2020 11:46am
- Surely Knott
  
  Agree this article was an embarrasment to journalism even for stuff. They say he made an 80k loss and may make further losses. But they never clarify in the article 1. what the requirements of the wage subsidy are (that you have to make a 30% revenue loss in any one month and keep paying your staff). and 2. whether by losing 80k the guy was legitimately entitled to the wage subsidy . So the article was devoid of the necessary factual information. If the author’s issue is that the wage subsidy might results in a profit for some companies (which I doubt)who are able to return to level 2, then the article should have been about poorly formed policy. But the article’s being run currently by the herald and stuff that IrD are coming after business cheating the system is unfair. How do businesses even know if they need to return the subsidy yet, when you have to show a 30% loss in any one month between jan and june 2020. So he may still have further losses when he returns to work, and building contracts are cancelled. But they are smearing business owners less than one month into the scheme.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:32am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    The msm are smearing business owners who had good reasons to *expect* far lower income.
    
    People who might be perfectly willing to repay if things go better than expected, but where is WINZ providing such an ‘honesty box’ link for people who would be very happy to start repaying?
    
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    April 26, 2020 2:29pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I suspect there is a 12 week plan already envisaged and the subsidy won’t be expected back from most. It may even waived as a act of vote buying if the close down period is shortened.
      
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      April 26, 2020 5:30pm
  - artemisia
    
    The guy in the article has 40 staff, and by all accounts met the criteria for the wage subsidy. So the money is in the bank and wages will continue to be paid. 12 weeks wages for 40 staff in the construction industry is going to exceed the wage subsidy paid out. Even if they are all on minimum wage which they won’t be.
    
    It’s fake news.
    
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    April 26, 2020 7:16pm
Tasman Terror

National will win if they run a predominantly negative campaign. Yes put forward a plan and be constructive about repairing the economy. Wall to wall criticism of Twyford, Woods, and Jones being in charge of the infrastructure would be an example of where attacks could come from.The more than halving if our GDP growth before the Covoid 19 crisis is another. Don’t forget that the Nats and Act could form a government on the opinion polls before the crisis because of Labour’s economic incompetence. Many of you overrate Ardern’s popularity. If you go back in the polls Clarke and Key were far more popular as Prime Ministers. May be to do with having competent folk about them unlike the rabble she puts up with.
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April 26, 2020 10:06am
- Komata
  
  TT@1006
  
  EXCEPT, that (by their own admission to me) the Nats don’t currently have any clearly-defined policies that they can currently promote and won’t have any until AFTER the Lockdown has ended. Certainly, they have lots of ideas and ‘discussion’ and ‘intentions’, but not one actual ‘Policy’.
  
  It’s an absolutely weird way to run things since by NOT having anything in concrete they cannot counter what the CoL promotes, and if they have nothing ‘set’ they are essentially no better than cindy and her ‘making-up things on the hoof’ way of operating.
  
  Humpty Dumpty would seem to have been correct…
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Labour came in with nothing and have ballsed up ever since on the hoof !
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:48pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Huh? I’ve been looking at National’s policy publications and commenting on them for months now. Just look at their website.
    
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    April 26, 2020 2:32pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sounds like an effort…
      
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      April 26, 2020 3:23pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    So,
    So great policies are made during lockdowns when no platforms are available?
    The PM is doing the most damage to her party by her markling.
    
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    April 26, 2020 5:32pm
- dave_c_
  
  Not “the rabble she puts up with”, rather “the rabble she is part of”.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:34am
- JackRabbit
  
  I suggested that on KB a few months and got slammed by KB’ers at the time as being too negative and that running a dirty campaign would make National look bad.
  
  At the time, I suggested that Labour were going to run a very dirty campaign. They are running their campaign now. Why do you think Mx Ardern is all over the media? A country locked down because of the annual flu?
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I have been warning of a dirty Labour campaign for yonks. That’s their way. They are intrinsic bullies and rely on an underground to push their cause. They only recognise might as right–sense is irrelevant.
    When people like Andrea Vance start public criticism you know that Arderns mob are being ousted.
    GO Simon and Team.
    ☑️☑️Make it a Rout 2020☑️☑️
    
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    April 26, 2020 5:37pm
- Wired-one
  
  I mostly agree. Ardern and co are good at reacting to crises with fancy language and slogans, but they cannot deliver any of their own shit. That needs to be messaged to the public and there is ample evidence of this all over the place from Kiwibuild to billion trees and the NZFirst re-election fund. National needs to simply show how incompetent this government have been on policy delivery, broken promises and their economic performance. We were already heading for recession before this pandemic. National are a team of strength, Labour is Ardern and a bunch of inept fools. That’s an easy TV advert right there and can have the same influence as the rowing boats did. This government does not deserve a second term, I just hope that the opposition gets their messaging right.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Reliable or fake news?
Maybe he had dirt on Hillary?
https://amp.tmz.com/2020/04/25/north-korea-dictator-kim-jong-un-dead-dies-heart-surgery-reports/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1rmf5sRQosXjqbHP6l0KleVyBXQx_zg6T9SC65w3qz_C6doYc9_UeO234
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April 26, 2020 10:08am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Tears in the White House. President Trump fondly recalls a close personal friend:
  “I was really being tough and so was he,” Trump said. “And we would go back and forth. And then we fell in love. No really. He wrote me beautiful letters.”
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:48am
- rangitoto
  
  Yep. Another case of Arkancide. If it is true I wouldn’t want to be one of his medics. The story that a Chinese medical team was urgently dispatched to NK appears to be solid but who knows about his death.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:43am
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto (North Shore) : I’ll beleive it when SK media say so.
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:01pm
Michael

Gee , this annoys me.
I am sure Tamihere murdered those Swedish tourists, but he just won’t admit it.
He admits to stealing their car with the camping equipment in it and then selling off some of that gear.
Tamihere was hiding out because he didn’t want to go to jail for rape. One would think he would be keeping a low profile, which he was until he stole that car. what is the first thing those tourists would do when the came out of the bush and found their car with their camping gear had been stolen? They would contact the police and the police would start looking for that car. But hey, Tamihere wasn’t worried about them contacting the police because he knew they were dead , having murdered them himself .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121234887/its-about-time-david-tamihere-says-his-30-year-quest-for-justice-rankles?fbclid=IwAR2YWGkUDUz-IU2A4JeyY8x1shRQJxbP90M55FB14QIlH_BCHipebZTaWgo
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April 26, 2020 10:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Sadly, you being ‘sure’ doesn’t prove the case. The prosecution evidence rested on unreliable jailhouse informants and was eventually proven false.
  He may have murdered them. Apart from him, I doubt anyone will ever know for sure.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:51am
- G152
  
  Why did the police claim Tamihere had the males watch when later the watch was on the body when found ????
  There are other ‘anomalies’ but that will need answering first
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:59am
- Philview
  
  I recall he had already done jail time for killing someone so I would say the statistical probability of the tourists bumping into 2 murderers in New Zealand on the same day on the same section of track would be extremely unlikely.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:35am
curry4me

http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/Corona.pdf
Gerry Brownlee posted this on his Face Book page yesterday. I doubt he did it wothout Simpns’ blessing.
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April 26, 2020 10:27am
- marcw
  
  The truth is curry, unlike Labour, NZF and the Greens, National Ministers think for themselves, and don’t have most of their elected representatives in witless protection. I am sure I don’t have to give you a list of them, we all know who they are.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:41am
- kiwiracer
  
  I’ve just read this report, it is well worth the time, it’s 33 pages long.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:27am
- James Stephenson
  
  Do keep up, DPF posted on this a week ago.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/04/a_robust_critique.html
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:46pm
curry4me

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/why-the-kim-jong-un-is-dead-rumors-deserve-skepticism
US, and South Korean sources don’t believe he is dead. He could
Be trying to draw out potential opposition.
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April 26, 2020 10:28am
- chaos
  
  His kind never die, just their double takes over…
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:40am
Maggie Pie

Reports of Dear Leaders death may be premature.
CNN reports that China has sent a specialist medical team into North Korea following latest threat….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0qW9P-uYfM

😀
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April 26, 2020 10:31am
graham

Wow. Published on Stuff, of all places:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121247586/why-the-heroworship-of-jacinda-ardern-is-unhealthy

Andrea Vance gets it.

The global praise for Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s leadership during the coronavirus pandemic reads like the extravagant quotes transcribed on movie posters.

But as the country moves into recovery, it’s time to tune out the global hype and tone down the hero-worship.

Politicians should not have fans. By placing our leaders on a pedestal, it creates an unhealthy and polarising dynamic.

There is evidence of it already in our online political discourse. Any criticism of the Government’s policies and measures is met with a wave of venom.

Even gentle questioning – by opponents, interest groups or the media – is seen as a personal attack on Ardern.

Just because Ardern is remarkable, does not mean she is always right.
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April 26, 2020 10:39am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Andrea Vance is reading the runes on her future, & is desperately trying to row back.
  
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  April 26, 2020 10:54am
  - Garbageman
    
    Yep that 50 Million dollar bribe to the media for their continued support of Labour wont cover the costs for long and their talent-less pool of opinion writers will probably be for the chop first so all you pale stale males might get a break from the incessant whining from the its all your fault brigade, such fun when all of those chickens come home to roost
    
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    April 26, 2020 12:16pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      Stuff are quite upset as they are not eligible for most of the bribe categories.
      
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      April 26, 2020 1:30pm
      - Ruahine
        
        Cindy is not being very kind.
        
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        April 26, 2020 1:42pm
- Philview
  
  I am not convinced by her assertion that John Key was equally loved by the media. The thing about John Key is that we could discuss his strengths and faults in casual conversation without a negative impact on a relationship.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:29am
- curry4me
  
  graham: Stuff didn’t get any of the PMs Pravda 2.0 funds did they?
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:04pm
- kevn
  
  Andrea Vance v/s Jessica Mutch-something apparently…
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:22pm
Dave Mann

I don’t think New Zealanders are treating this Chinese virus with the seriousness that it deserves.

As of yesterday, a full 1461 people are feeling a bit poorly and 1117 of these are actually confirmed to have it. The fact that 1118 people have recovered doesn’t alter the fact that lots of people are feeling out of sorts at the moment. When you add to these huge overwhelming figures the terrifying fact that there are a massive seven people in hospital and eighteen people have died of
with it, you can certainly see the serious predicament that our country is in.

Given these horrific statistics, it is obvious that the only way to save ourselves is to totally destroy both our economy and our society. I mean, it stands to reason, right?

By ignoring this virus until the very last moment and even then refusing to close our borders while putting the whole country into house arrest, our ‘government’ was able to cleverly fool this virus into behaving as if New Zealand was a healthy place to live, with an extremely healthy population. It’s almost as if we were well fed, socially safe with no (actual) poverty and the advantages of an extremely good health care system…… but this couldn’t possibly be a factor to consider, could it?

Anyway, after this is over, New Zealand certainly won’t have any of these societal attributes, so it’s a very good thing that our wise masters are ‘eradicating’ this devastating disease, right?
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April 26, 2020 10:44am
- Critical Thinker
  
  I know right!
  
  It’s a good thing that our most beneficent and most merciful government didn’t follow the incredibly inept and dispicable ScoMo government in Australia. Which went for a so called “Common sense” strategy of keeping a good amount of its economy running, while in its very unkind and much less stringent lockdown. Otherwise New Zealand would have had similar results to them…
  
  https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-daily-deaths-trajectory-per-million?country=AUS+BEL+CAN+FRA+DEU+ITA+MYS+NZL+KOR+ESP+SWE+GBR+USA
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:31am
- chaos
  
  And if the government hadn’t of done what it did and we were looking down the barrel of what other countries are then you would be whinging your ass off that people were dying because of the Government inaction.
  
  our hospitals aren’t flooded with cases like in other countries, we don’t have a huge daily death rate like overseas, be thankful.
  
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  April 26, 2020 11:39am
Aunty

For KB readers who are particularly enamored of the Swedish experiment, I invite you to go to this site and do a little comparison between the following countries:- Taiwan, New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Australia, South Korea, UK, Italy, Spain, USA, and Sweden.

This site plots (on a log-log plot) the number of new confirmed cases and allows for direct comparisons of the infection rates and trends among countries.

The countries I have suggested above are a mixture of those who have had good success up to this time in stopping the spread of the virus (and deaths) with those that have not. I have also included Sweden’s Scandinavian neigbours. So where does Sweden lie? Check it out for yourself.

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/
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April 26, 2020 10:48am
- Critical Thinker
  
  The stat that really matters is the death rate.
  
  We won’t actually know if the Swedish herd immunity experiment worked for another few months. But we do now know that it hasn’t been the catastrophe that many thought it would be.
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:14pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  This plot only gives the view of the actual reported infections. Time has been removed and the intrinsic nature of the cumulative queue type population is shown as a scary exponential function.
  
  The Source is John Hopkins Uni. who are pals with Bill Gates and other eugenicists. To them scary is good, bringing them hopes of control.
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:36pm
dave_c_

Having just waded through all the posts in this thread relating to the virus, I can’t help but to conclude that there are ‘Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
We are all being taken as fools, and our oppressors are making a meal of it, at our expense.
Who cares what the statistics are, or are not saying.
If government had made such a huge fuss about the 500 or so that die EVERY year, (and have been for decades) and had been seen to be doing something about it, I might give them credit.
Our government is driving forward in lock-step with the world wide tyranny being meted out to nations across the world.
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April 26, 2020 10:54am
Fletch

It is looking the the virus not only attacks the lungs, but can attack any healthy organ. There are reports of people in their 30s and 40s with the virus suffering a stroke. People who were completely healthy beforehand.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/121276557/coronavirus-young-healthy-people-dying-from-covid19related-strokes
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April 26, 2020 10:57am
- Andrei
  
  Got to keep the sheep frightened Fletch – and anecdotal stories about horrible deaths work very well in that regard
  
  Younger people have strokes Fletch, its rare but it happens but if you also find COVID-19 in a stroke patient you have hit gold and can sell it to the papers
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump tells everyone to drown themselves.
https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-says-to-drink-lots-of-water-media-reports-as-deranged-trump-tells-everyone-to-drown-themselves?fbclid=IwAR0NHVixbEUxQ7QUxXaO3DQgZLWeQi5b8C4cMK5zBnZ9mEOgb60TQFEX1sw
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April 26, 2020 11:00am
Michael

My wife and I are both octogenarians and I have to say the lockdown has hardly effected us. We are running out of reading material because we can’t make our weekly visit to the local library, but other than that, nada. We still go for our daily walks.
And our pension has just gone up.
Oh, I almost forgot. Our lawn is getting a bit long but the lawnmower man is up and running again on Tuesday.
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April 26, 2020 11:04am
- fernglas
  
  Have you tried going onto your library’s website and signing up for EBooks? You can read them on the computer. Also the Gutenberg Project website has lots of the classics available for free.
  
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  April 26, 2020 12:41pm
Yvette

Two years ago, Ashley Bloomfield appeared before a Waitangi Tribunal about health inequities for Māori, arguing that Māori health outcomes are unacceptably bad, and must be addressed by the health system. The current vulnerability of Māori to this pandemic demonstrates that not nearly enough has been done. – Pearl Little, Newshub [1]

Total cases 1461 (includes confirmed and probable cases)
Maori cases 125 – Newsroom [2]

So Maori cases are 8.55% of the total, while Maori are 16.5% of the total population.
Meanwhile, Asian 165 cases are 11.29%, but population share 15.3%

With lower life expectancy, greater underlying poor health and in many cases inter-generation family structures like Spain, Italy and France, why do Maori numbers defy all expectations, so far

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/opinion-coronavirus-is-much-worse-for-maori-but-it-shouldn-t-be.html
[2] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/25/1101216/covid-19-in-nz-the-numbers
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April 26, 2020 11:08am
Manolo

Covid-19 and the criminal behaviour of the Chinese Communist Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MQtuLM2FY&t=134s
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April 26, 2020 11:10am
Fletch

Sick. Cuomo sent a letter on March 25th to nursing homes saying that they must accept Covid-19 positive patients discharged from hospitals. A woman who runs a rest home facility phoned Mark Levin last month and read him the letter. The story eventually made it into the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.marklevinshow.com/2020/04/25/caller-elaine-exposes-cuomo-from-march-26/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-mandates-nursing-homes-take-covid-19-patients-discharged-from-hospitals-11585228215
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April 26, 2020 11:14am
- kowtow
  
  UK Daily Telegraph reports the govt instructed NHS hospitals to discharge covid patients , who were still possibly infectious but didn’t need high level care into nursing homes ( to free up hospital beds) .
  Look at how well that worked out.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Triggered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dye1_M0c8U4
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April 26, 2020 11:14am
trout

For the oldies, common sense;
Seniors Minister Tracey Martin said Over-70s and other higher-risk groups have the same rights as everyone else to go to work, to exercise and to access essential services but she urged them to be especially careful. ( Instruction to stay home in Level 3 has been rescinded).
I am warming to Tracey Martin as a pragmatic politician who has the capacity to see through bureaucratic bulldust; pity about her venal leader.
Compare this attitude to the over 70’s with Green’s spokesperson, GG , who believes that oldies need ‘guidance’ as to what they are allowed to do. (‘shut up and obey’)
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April 26, 2020 11:33am
- Harriet
  
  Tracey Martin knows that retired people — because that is what over 70’s people largely are — will mostly stay indoors this winter just like they did last winter. Otherwise she is fucken ignorant.
  Rest homes is where 90%+ of the danger is, and they also are over 70.
  
  In short you don’t need a lock down, never did, and Tracey Martin knows it.
  
  Tracey Martin is not a good seniors minister, because if seniors were told the truth they would be pleased to stay at home – just like they mostly do – allowing their kids and grandkids to get on with prosperity, instead of worrying about what is unlikely to happen and decimating society by allowing themselves to be locked up in their own homes under false pretences.
  
  Here where I live in aussie it is increasingly day by day heading back to normal, people just spread apart further. But Jacinda is only going to allow some of you to go dead slow, all in the belief that you will bounce back quicker????????????
  
  NZ will pay a catastrophic price for the response that is being taken.
  
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  April 26, 2020 2:18pm
I remember when

While Donald Trump may not be voted brain of the month any time soon does anyone REALLY think he believes in some of the cures he has mentioned.
So, if this is the case what reasons would there be for promoting them?
Do they deflect some of the attention away from the number of deaths and loss of jobs?
Then he can walk away without answering questions which means more stories about him not the problems.
All publicity is good publicity approach. Still getting his name out there.
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April 26, 2020 11:34am
Herodotus

After this post and from the queues I noticed cycling past 4 supermarkets were longer than I have seen excluding Easter – It appears to me that this post could also apply to yesterday morning “The Government allowed supermarkets to open today, which was a partial victory. But they should have allowed them to open on Friday also. Frankly making people queue for 90 minutes to get into a supermarket helps no-one.” So where is the consistency in the argument/your stance ????
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/04/this_is_why_it_was_stupid_to_close_supermarkets_on_friday.html
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April 26, 2020 11:36am
Yvette

May 04 2018
Government announces $100m plan to fight homelessness
Housing Minister Phil Twyford has announced $100m of funding for homelessness, with $37m allocated to finding 1500 new places by the end of winter.
The remaining $63.4m will be spent over four years to expand and sustain the Housing First programme across the country, adding 550 more places and keeping 900 established households going. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103619757/government-announces-100m-plan-to-fight-homelessness

April 26,2020
Government announces $100m for housing homeless
Housing Minister Megan Woods announced the funding today, saying it would help vulnerable New Zealanders during and after the Covid-19 pandemic.
She said more than 1100 additional motel units had already been secured for people without housing by government agencies, community housing, iwi and Māori providers since the alert levels were put in place.
Dr Woods said the funding would ensure people continued to be housed for the longer term, with 1600 units being funded https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/415165/government-announces-100m-for-housing-homeless

Same headline, different minister and date …

“Many of the people living in the motels have high and complex needs and it’s crucial they get support,” she said. “It will enable people to stay housed until we can secure more long-term housing supply.”

… but their solution still seems temporary
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April 26, 2020 11:47am
- Paulus
  
  But what happens when it is time for the Motel Owners to move towards their normal clientele and the current special Government paid occupants say (as some have declared already) that they are not going anywhere.
  The Motel Owners may regret their original agreements to help- but not on a permanent basis.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:55pm
  - wairarapapaul
    
    We stayed in a motel last year which had some housing NZ people staying there. They were generally flouting the rules by staying up late, drinking, talking loudly, playing music, leaving rubbish and mess around, parking inappropriately and sitting around outside all day in common areas. It’s as good a place as any to provide some temporary housing and I have no problem with that. But I won’t be staying in another motel as long as I live.
    
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    April 26, 2020 3:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  Why not this….
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzpv47o80eg
  
  or this ….
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgdcBOWPYZc
  
  And even this is better than a motel room isn’t it?
  
  https://www.businessinsider.com/tiny-plug-in-house-hex-key-peoples-architecture-office-2?op=1&r=AU&IR=T#the-plug-in-house-is-much-more-modern-3
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:35pm
Tall Man

For those who don’t know.

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/why-democrats-are-donkeys-republicans-are-elephants-artsy/index.html
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April 26, 2020 11:50am
- Ruahine
  
  Mr Nast was definitely correct with his cartoon depictions.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:26pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Tom Scott used to be a bit like that but couldn’t face being non woke so ended up only attacking the right.
    
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    April 26, 2020 5:09pm
alex Masterley

According to Sky News OZ this morning, a contact tracing app will be rolled out in the next day or so.
Ours is expected in weeks?
Why hasn’t the NZ MOH not been comparing notes with the Oz equivalent instead of going it alone or simply buying the Singaporean system.
we really need a Royal Commission of enquiry to run the sole over what was done well, what was not and identify the bits where we lucked out and those we did not.
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April 26, 2020 12:27pm
- Harriet
  
  “….Why hasn’t the NZ MOH not been comparing notes with the Oz equivalent instead of going it alone or….”
  
  NZ exceptionalism. Just look at your PM. And John Key.
  Also remind yourself of all the constant nationalism, kiwibank, kiwikids, KiwiRail, kiwi build.
  And remind yourself of all the anti aussie remarks you’ve heard constantly over the last few years.
  
  NZ doesn’t exactly endear itself to aussie. NZ now sees it more like competition “we can beat the aussies.”
  
  It’s a mindset that has sunk in rather than rationalism.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:50pm
  - chaos
    
    Cindy wants to save the world herself which is why she has invested quarter of a million of no money for a rapid test rather than ring up trump, apologise for being a dickhead over the years to him and ask about the rapid testing they already have.
    
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    April 26, 2020 2:09pm
- Cinematic
  
  Completely unnecessary. We’ve all been keeping diaries remember?
  
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  April 26, 2020 4:00pm
slightlyrighty

A tweet from Matt Hooten

“Right-wingers who still insist on supporting Trump remind me of swivel-eyed left-wingers who insisted on supporting Corbyn to the end. At a certain point, integrity demands you accept that whatever party rosette they’re wearing, they’re a sinister and dangerous clown.”
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April 26, 2020 12:53pm
- lifesgood
  
  As is Hooten.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:21pm
- fernglas
  
  “We have now Tested more than 5 million people. That is more than any any other country in the world, and even more than all major countries combined” Trump on Twitter.
  AS at 24/04, the US had tested just under 5 million, Russia 2.5 million, Germany 2 million, Italy 1.5 million, Spain 900,000, Turkey 800,000, Canada, UK, France and India combined 2 million……..
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:26pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It is almost as if every single thing he says is a lie…
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:52pm
    - chaos
      
      Can’t be like Cindy, every time she opens her mouth she lies
      
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      April 26, 2020 2:07pm
  - chaos
    
    Current the USA has tested 5,184,635
    
    https://covidtracking.com/data
    
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    April 26, 2020 2:08pm
    - Cinematic
      
      I’m wondering what the point is of testing all these people? Is there a point?
      
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      April 26, 2020 3:57pm
- Cinematic
  
  I’m not supporting Trump but I do think he’s making America great again!
  
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  April 26, 2020 3:59pm
I remember when

Pay Now Deliver later.
Don’t forget what happens if the firm goes bust before delivery.
Are there protections in place – Money held in trust account?
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April 26, 2020 1:02pm
- Harriet
  
  All of your future earnings are now up to being placed into trust – with the tax office. 😎
  
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  April 26, 2020 4:37pm
Michael

I see a kiwiblogger is attributing this quote to Mark Twain It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.
Sounded like a good quote, I thought I might use it in my next book on the Bain murders, but when I goggled it I found that there was no record of Mark Twain , or Samuel Clemens, if you prefer , having actually said that.
Think I will stick with Abraham Lincoln’s quote
You can fool some of the people , etc.
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April 26, 2020 1:13pm
- fernglas
  
  Good, except that was from PT Barnum.
  
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  April 26, 2020 1:27pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Abraham Lincoln’s most famous words were: “most of the quotes you read on the internet are completely bogus”.
    
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    April 26, 2020 1:54pm
    - Harriet
      
      Just like all of your comments Milky. 😎
      
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      April 26, 2020 4:33pm
- Fletch
  
  There’s a very good website where a guy has taken it upon himself to find the origin of many popular quotations. I couldn’t find your original one on there, though.
  
  https://quoteinvestigator.com/
  
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  April 26, 2020 2:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Remember, it does not matter what Trump actually said. What matters is what we tell you he said.
Love TV1, NZ Herald, CNN, Washed post, MSNBC, and Mike
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April 26, 2020 3:18pm
- fernglas
  
  What matters is what he tells you he said.
  
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  April 26, 2020 8:31pm
Manu-Rau

Good afternoon everyone

There was an interesting discussion about the Maori Battalion on yesterday’s GD. Because I am currently living overseas, I wasn’t able to comment until late into the evening. Without wanting to show ‘poor form’ by repeating an earlier post, it was an interesting discussion, and I thought some of the commentators might be interested in my own response. If not, then fine, I won’t be offended. Feel free to skip over and move on.

The post was in response to an opening comment by David Garrett, and reads as follows:

“David, I normally agree with most of your posts but do have to disagree with this one. My comments here relate to your posts, and a number of the responses below.

Before proceeding, I should explain that I curated a major exhibition on the Maori Battalion for the Army Museum in 1988. This involved extensive research, including sources which had not previously been covered, and in some cases covered up. I came away with a very good understanding of the Battalion and its story.

While it is true that the Maori Battalion suffered heavier casualties per capita than any other unit, they didn’t take part in more actions, or more heavy actions, than any other. There were a number of reasons for their heavy losses, the key ones of which were – unfortunately – ill discipline in battle and a tendency to lose control in contact. The attack at Cassino was a good example.

There was another issue, which has largely gone unreported, of traditional inter-tribal rivalry manifesting itself, particularly in North Africa. At El Alamein, the Battalion was used as the reserve battalion for a two-brigade attack (ie, two brigades advancing side-by-side, with the Maori Battalion spread across the entire rear of the attacking brigades, with two MB companies advancing side-by-side behind each brigade. This is a most unusual deployment for a reserve battalion: indeed, I have never heard of it happening elsewhere. Normally the reserve battalion would be kept intact, and deploy behind the brigade that had the more difficult objectives or was likely to suffer the heaviest casualties. The reason it was done at El Alamein (which, as you may be aware, was a night attack) was to avoid the companies deliberately ‘fragging’ each other in the darkness.

And for the posters below, yes, there were atrocities. These included:
– a Cretan policeman and a number of civilians being bayonetted at the 42nd Street counterattack on Crete.
– Italians not being allowed to surrender and/or being killed after they had surrendered during the night attack against El Mrier ridge.
– A German field hospital being shot up (and ambulances being set alight, and wounded German soldiers being thrown into them) at Minqar Qaim.
– Italian POWs being shot, bayonetted and thrown off the cliff at Takrouna.
– German POWs being crucified with their own bayonets at San Silvestro. (Yes, this did happen. Evidence was provided to the Red Cross, who complained to Churchill.) In the Battalion’s next action (in February 1945), after LTCOL Pita Awatere (Donna’s father) ordered that no prisoners were to be taken, LT Huata (Donna’s father-in-law) shot a group of Germans through the head as each tried to exit a cellar to surrender. When Churchill found out, he demanded that Awatere be court-martialled. Freyberg refused, but immediately ordered Awatere back to NZ. He was replaced by MAJ (later Sir) James Henare.

WG Stevens makes an interesting observation in the Official History of HQ 2NZEF. In the chapter on ‘Discipline’, he notes that unfortunately soldiers from the Maori Battalion were responsible for more than 50% of the disciplinary breaches, despite being only 4% of the force total.

When the Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment was formed in the early 1960s, there was a suggestion that a new Maori Battalion be raised. Significantly the suggestion was quickly, and quietly, killed off by the senior leadership of the Army, all of whom had served during WW2.

Sorry to bring this up on Anzac Day, but the issues were raised by others, and I thought I should respond with some facts.”
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April 26, 2020 4:18pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The killings at Takrouna may well have cost Haane Manahi the VC his action that day merited.
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:14pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    Indeed – and quite rightly so, in my opinion. The irony was that he got the Distinguished Conduct Medal as an alternative award.
    
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    April 26, 2020 6:13pm
    - Jack5
      
      Manu-Rau, consider Churchill, weighed down by information, discussions and decisions about the Atlantic war, the plans for invading Europe, the bombing campaign, relations with Roosevelt and Stalin – and de Gaulle.
      
      Would he ever have known about a New Zealand lieutenant shooting a relative handful of enemy soldiers as they tried to surrender?
      
      On your report that the Army declined to re-raise a Maori Battalion: on the other side of the balance, weren’t the special troops later designated the NZ SAS originally called NZ Rangers, presumably with a nod to von Temsky’s Rangers in the Land Wars?
      
      The current TV advertising campaign for Army recruits is heavily oriented towards Maori, and the Army already has a disproportionate number of Maori compared with Maori proportion in the national population.
      
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      April 26, 2020 7:25pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        “consider Churchill, weighed down by information, discussions and decisions about the Atlantic war, the plans for invading Europe, the bombing campaign…….Would he ever have known about a New Zealand lieutenant shooting a relative handful of enemy soldiers as they tried to surrender?”
        
        The events I speak of happened in late 1944 and early 1945, a year after the Battle of the Atlantic had been won, 15 months after the invasion of Italy, 6 months after the invasion of Normandy and in the final few months of the bombing campaign. I think he would have been well and truly on top of those things by the time Awatere came to his attention.
        
        And, yes, he most certainly knew about Huata. A British liaison officer (rank of Major) attended the Orders Group where Awatere gave his ‘no prisoners’ order. The Battalion 2ic, Major James Henare, protested, but was overruled by Awatere. The British liaison officer then stated that regardless of whether or not prisoners were killed, he would send a report on Awatere’s words to the UK. Awatere apparently simply shrugged. Churchill was given a copy of the report, and details of the Huata shootings came out shortly thereafter.
        
        I’m not really sure what other points you are trying to make, but yes, the modern NZ Army has very strong Maori representation. I think that most who understand the NZ Army well would agree that it draws together the best martial characteristics of all its predecessors: Maori, British Regulars and colonial forces. Our Army’s culture reflects, and celebrates, all these characteristics.
        
        The field wing of the NZ SAS Regiment has been called ‘Ranger Company’ at various times, although to be honest I’m not sure how that relates to this discussion
        
        Incidentally, the NZ Forest Rangers were established and commanded by Major William Jackson, not von Tempsky. Von Temspky was one of his subordinates, but wrote up his own exploits to make himself look like he was in charge.
        
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        April 26, 2020 10:44pm
- Tall Man
  
  Thanks.
  
  My father served in both North Africa and Italy, at times closely with the Maori Battalion, and he had told me of many of those events when he was alive.
  
  That is not to say that they were the worst of the worst as they were not as history tells us.
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:15pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Thanks That is interesting. I expect the mainstream media to ask you for an interview and publish a story. No just kidding 🙂
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:28pm
- Papalazarou
  
  Thanks. That is very interesting.
  
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  April 26, 2020 7:45pm
rangitoto

I noticed around the neighbourhood that there’s a big increase in ignoring the lockdown rules. People having friends visiting to their houses. It’s not going to hold much longer.
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April 26, 2020 4:32pm
johnson777

What is it like working for a bunch of truly evil people who hate anything approaching the truth on this matter?
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April 26, 2020 4:39pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Must be hard
  
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  April 26, 2020 6:22pm
RW Capitalist

I see on SKY NEWS
Australia are expecting long term unemployment to be 6+ %
Here it appears we are already above 7%
PSST Jacinda, it’s spelt
E X O D U S.
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April 26, 2020 4:39pm
oldfella

Not sure if this has already been discussed on KB, but it’s a worth a read (an open letter to the PM).
https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpress.com/2020/04/23/an-open-letter-to-jacinda-adern-re-covid-19/
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April 26, 2020 4:39pm
Benedict Yu

“Public funds should be used to invest in the future, not the past, and flow to sustainable sectors and projects that help the environment and the climate.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/121255279/for-earth-day-un-chief-urges-green-recovery-in-response-to-coronavirus

I hate this stuff – people using the pandemic to push their agenda. And it is just slogans “sustainable sectors” green economy”, and this one “the use of eco-friendly jet fuel” ha ha.
You know how much land you would need to produce enough crops for biofuel turbofan engines? I’ve got news for you. Jet A1 will be powering airplanes for at least the next 30 years. There is no technology on the horizon that will change that. There is this thing called physics that gets in the way.
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April 26, 2020 5:10pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Yeah, and the same physics that shows global warming.
  
  We cannot alter the physics but we can alter the emissions.
  
  And if we don’t, in 30 years it will be too late to reverse the damage.
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:58pm
  - kiwiracer
    
    Doc. . . .please show one climate change model that has been proven correct.
    
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    April 26, 2020 6:07pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Another manmade model, another manmade mistake. Models can be manufactured to produce the answer you want. Look no further than COVID-19 Models.
    
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    April 26, 2020 7:54pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are missing the point. I worked for many years on climate change policy. I gave up after I realised none of the choices for New Zealand were remotely palatable to any politicians. This guy is saying “lets run planes on biofuels”. That.is.NEVER.going.to.happen.
    
    So if you have ideas, I mean real ideas, beyond “clean green economy” let me know.
    
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    April 26, 2020 8:02pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12327334

“Simon Bridges on Borrowed Time”

What a beat up. It is behind a paywall, but I can predict the content. This is just an example of journalists making shit up. If National rolled Simon Bridges they would be guaranteed to lose the election.
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April 26, 2020 5:24pm
- Poppa
  
  You could be right, but I hate to say it, I think they will lose anyway
  
  I hate to think of the carnage we are in for over the next 3 years
  
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  April 26, 2020 5:41pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes I agree. I have family members who think that the Government has saved us from thousands of deaths. Unlike me, said family members are not working from home (in my case after agreeing to a 20 percent price cut on my services to maintain my key contracts). Instead, they are all benefiting from the wage subsidy and have had a nice time at home with the kids. One of these folk said to me yesterday “I wish it was like this all the time”. She has no clue as to the shit storm that will greet her when she emerges from her holiday.
    
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    April 26, 2020 6:53pm
- rangitoto
  
  The horrid is on borrowed time.
  
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  April 26, 2020 6:09pm
johnson777

http://www.preearth.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1184

[ Mod : you have posted this link umpty times in any thread you can find. Point taken. Knock it off ]
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April 26, 2020 5:40pm
- chaos
  
  Not a hoax
  
  Don’t worry you’ll find out pretty soon all about it and some other things that will cause global rioting
  
  Such fun times we are living in
  
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  April 26, 2020 6:47pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hah. Sample topics from that website:
  Proof that Adolf Hitler was a double agent.
  The world’s greatest tank battle. It never happened!
  Hitler had Jewish roots, DNA tests show.
  Stalin’s birth-name translates as “Joseph son of Judah”.
  Proof World War One was fought to steal Israel for the Jews.
  The 1919 book titled; The Holocaust.
  Were the Manson Killings a US Government Black Op?
  Maybe, just maybe, not the most reliable source?
  
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  April 26, 2020 6:59pm
- johnson777
  
  It only ….
  
  [ Mod : enjoy your holiday up to the end of L2.
  
  You should start a blog that wants to see your repetive hoax stuff ]
  
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  April 26, 2020 7:13pm
Benedict Yu

Just visited New World in central Christchurch. A woman freaked out in the supermarket – yelling “Leave me alone” and running up and down the aisles. Police arrived and took her away.

I guess some people reaching breaking point is to be expected.
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April 26, 2020 6:46pm
Jack5

To bureaucrats who allowed re-entry, to families and friends – and to any Islamic supporters – of the local mongrels who fought as volunteers with ISIL and have been re-absorbed into New Zealand …

An Iraqi ISIL fighter has been charged with crimes against humanity – genocide of the Yazidi religious minority.

One of his alleged brutalities is buying a five-year-old Yazidi girl as a slave and chaining her in the hot sun to die of thirst.

Presumably from the silence of his supporters, NZ ISIL fighter Mark Taylor is back in the country. Others who were in ISIL have returned here.

The Yazidis are probably to passive to go after former ISIL members internationally, but, when their anger boils over, perhaps some of them will.

If so, let’s hope they have some special fate for the ISIL dog who tortured the little girl to death.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/iraqi-goes-on-trial-in-germany-charged-with-genocide-and
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April 26, 2020 7:12pm
Mark Craig

I predict a bit of a firestorm in the Gnats caucus tomorrow.Nick Smith has fragged Soiman ,and there is going to be a dust up.For centre ,centre lefties like me it just does not get any better.Oh happy days .
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April 27, 2020 8:01pm
- marcw
  
  Oh wow, after a rambling post what would we expect? Do you even know what day it is Mark?
  You will get it, eventually.
  
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  April 27, 2020 8:46pm
Mark Craig

Can any of youse very informed correspondents give a rundown of the nett effect of immigration following 9 years of National govt.How much did the population grow ,how many house were built ,how many empty Asian investor homes ,and how much infrastructure was built,out side of the earthquake zone.I tried looking but drew a blank, my gut feeling is that it was a clusterfuck of biblical proportions.
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April 27, 2020 8:44pm
- marcw
  
  Nope – still hasn’t clicked.
  
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  April 27, 2020 8:52pm

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