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May 4, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 May 2020

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General Debate

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Steve Otto(North Shore)

May the 4th be with you
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May 4, 2020 8:01am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Happy Star Wars Day
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:09am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    If Kathleen Kennedy & Disney are involved it’s not.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:13am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  We have a labour government in a quasi legal lock-down; the force is with us . . .
  
  #releasethecrownlegalopinion
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:55am
- Gravelroad
  
  It seems there are people on here who campaign to downtick not because of what the poster says but because they don’t like the poster.
  Reminds me of school yard thinking.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:04am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Not at all!
    I have never voted Labour (I always down tick Labour) because they are socialists and socialism has never worked anywhere.
    I always down tick batty Brian McDonald, super-stupid Simon Gotleib and mad Milky for exactly the same reason. They are inept, incompetent boobs and their beliefs and ideology have never worked anywhere.
    
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    May 4, 2020 12:46pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      ..But they entitled to express their POV. Downtick when you disagree rather than because who they are – that makes you as bad as the controlling lefties.
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:18pm
      - kloyd0306
        
        If something happens once, it’s an accident.
        If the same thing happens twice, it’s a coincidence.
        If the same thing happens three times, it’s a habit.
        The three posters I have identified as being totally out of touch (just look at their quantity of down ticks) make a habit of posting dumb comments. They are such that I don’t need to read their comments. I already know that they’re dumb.
        
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        May 4, 2020 2:31pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That is rather closed-minded of you, if I might say. I can’t recall if I have ever downticked you, but that’s only because I can’t remember any of your comments making an impression.
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:23pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  May the L3 lock down be with you for ever – Cindy, PTPM of NZ.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:04am
Tony Stuart

LOST: 700,000 flu vaccines. If you find them, please return them (by bicycle) to Julie Anne Genter, C/- Parliament Buildings, Wellington

No reward – we’re in a financial crisis!
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May 4, 2020 8:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  But Cindy said they’re not lost. I heard her.
  Liar, liar, pants on fire.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:10am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    She said it was a misrepresentation – which may be different than being absolutely refuted…
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:44am
  - Maxx
    
    Did she refute the question? That sure is some strong language she’s using.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:04am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    What Cindy says is truth, nothing but truth, so help NZ, God.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:05am
- kevn
  
  @Tony… But, but JA has been telling Hosking there isn’t a problem. GP’s must have it wrong.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:16am
  - Maxx
    
    She also stated she’s not personally involved in the logistics. I’m sure there are plenty of money launderers who don’t handle the transactions…
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:06am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Yes. GPs are wrong. Afte all according to 55% of Sheeple. Cindy is saving their lives. She can walk on water.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:06am
Justitia

The Poilce have been acting ultra vires. The iwi roadblocks are illegal. Finally some recognition is occurring in the media that this has been the case: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329263. The government will try to walk away from this mess but huge damage has been unlawfully done to our civil liberties. These matters must be taken up in the courts. Parker should be sacked.
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May 4, 2020 8:04am
- Loddenthinks
  
  And Nash – dereliction of duty, consorting with the enemy, general uselessness.
  
  Mounting a challenge to David Clark for the Twyford Civic Bowl?
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:50am
- Nickc2
  
  I for one, don’t want Maori gangs controlling where I can or can’t go in my own country. To me, this is going to be a major factor in deciding where my vote goes.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I believe Maori have now got rights too at the consenting stages if you need a permit for renovations or extensions to your dwelling.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:34am
    - Nickc2
      
      True Kev and you also have to pay them some money too. Oh we can’t have that can we? Lets call it koha instead. A bribe is a bribe in any language.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:02am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Yeah right Nick2 bro. 55% of the Sheeple have already decided where their vote will go. So you are in minority. Cindy doesn’t care what you think. The election is already in the bag for her.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:07am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Parker was arrogant in the extreme when he appeared before the Epidemic Response Committee a couple of weeks ago. He point blank refused to release the legal advice from Crown Law, even to a private session of the ERC. He told Bridges if they wanted to see it, they would have to take the Government to court.
  
  The public have a right to know whether the Police were acting under a legal mandate for the first two weeks of the Level Four lockdown, until the Section 70 notice was issued. It’s clear from the leaked Police emails that Police themselves were uncertain as to their legal status.
  
  More importantly though, the two issues dominating the media today, flu vaccines and Police legality, have the potential to turn pulic opinion against the Government very quickly. If indeed UMR had Labour polling at 55% last week, I would suggest that is Peak Labour, and that the numbers will change quite quickly as more and more government incompetence and policy made on the run becomes apparent.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:55am
  - Maxx
    
    I doubt the brainwashed public will change based on this. Short of some evidence that shows that she knew it was illegal and went ahead anyway, it’ll just be “smile and wave”
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:08am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      But how do we hold Ardern to account? The ballot box is not adequate. We need a mechanism for effective punishment for deliberate misuse of power.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:38am
      - Maxx
        
        It shows what a joke this Government is that with more clowns in cabinet than a mini at the circus, yet everyones attention is on Jacindas frowny face when she “slams” someone for daring to question Parkers mountain biking house move beach getaway.
        
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        May 4, 2020 11:59am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        ~~Parkers~~ David Clark’s mountain biking house move beach getaway.
        
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        May 4, 2020 1:05pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Are you sure about public opinion turning?
    
    I think the media narrative will now be: “this government makes mistakes and has the fortitude to admit them. Isn’t Cindy just the bestest world leader that aotearoa has ever seen…?”
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:12am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The PM had the opportunity to admit to a mistake over flu vaccines in her media round this morning, but instead chose to parrot Robertson’s line from Friday that there are still 700,000 vaccines out there, just waiting to be injected into us.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It is not a mistake when it is deliberate. Ardern unfortunately acts a bit queenly and believes her “Capt’ns calls” have the force of law.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:41am
  - Mark Craig
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Mr Stuart I wonder if you would be so kind as to explain why the gnats mp’s have,bar 3or 4 ,not been given the polling results Mr Farrar assiduously collects on behalf of the party.After all it does strike an incongruous note that your motley crew is to be trusted with running the country,according to you,but not to be trusted sharing poll results.ps David Parker would be the least arrogant mp in parliament.cf Aaron Gilmour .
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:29am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I didn’t realise gnats had MP’s. Fancy a species of insects being so democratic!
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:40am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Another Fraser House brother at the fold . . .
      
      Twat
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:42am
      - Mark Craig
        
        I predict Sioiman will fall on his sword,sooner rather than later.In expectation of this I looked fo my well thumbed copy of Dirty Politics,a certain Mz Collins features prominently in this ,you will no doubt recall.Anyhow I cannot find it I wonder if any of the respondents here would be so kind as to lend me their copy.By the way childish abuse of me does not let you off the hook in regards to the gnat mps not being shown the poll results.I add this as an aside ,Jacinda is a textbook case on how to wield soft power.She is amazeballs.
        
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        May 4, 2020 11:07am
    - double d
      
      Leaked UMR polls. Pffffft.
      This is why I dislike this current lot of labour politicians. They are more focussed on politicising events and being re-elected than actually dealing with the crisis. The “leak” was carefully dripfed to useful idiot media repeaters (not to be confused with journalists) as they know there is a lot of very negative news to come in the months ahead. They are wanting a perception of “people are overwhelmingly happy and we have handled the crisis well”. I have been amazed at the comments from many people I know who are labour or green voters on how unhappy they are with the situation today, but more pertinent is the fact they are terrified at what the future holds for them with jobs being
      lost and serious economic hardship looming. And this lot continue to play games with leaked polls and not owning any stuff ups (vaccines and road blocks just the latest issues) – it is just embarrassing.
      
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      May 4, 2020 11:03am
      - Mark Craig
        
        Err what was Jason Edes job again young fellow my lad.
        
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        May 4, 2020 7:24pm
      - double d
        
        Wouldn’t have a clue what he did
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:00pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘have the potential to turn pulic opinion against the Government very quickly. ‘
    
    There’s clearly a floating 20 odd % of the public who are very easily swayed by the shallowest of imagery or messaging “go early , go hard”
    
    They are the type whose single brain cell isn’t overly taxed by such mundane and unimportant issues as their constitutional rights , unless of course it directly hits their bottom line .
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:58am
    - calendar girl
      
      Well done, kowtow, in highlighting Ms Ardern’s oft-repeated “go early, go hard” mantra in relation to her Government ‘s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. Ardern’s slick, sloganistic language does nothing in this situation to explain or to verify the meaning of such language.
      
      I would welcome a Prime Ministerial release explaining and demonstrating in detail what her Government’s catchy contention is actually intended to convey. Public sloganeering, even in its cutest form, is no substitute for clear public communications about policy, and about actions designed to underpin such policy.
      
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      May 4, 2020 3:57pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    So you think 55% of Sheeple will change their mind that soon, that too when they are getting free money to sit at home and bake cakes and sing kumbaya and welcome home?? Fat chance bro. Here is the Kumbaya lyrics for you to sing along. Search and Replace Lord with Jacinda in the lyrics.
    Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
    Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
    Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s singing Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s singing Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s singing Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbayah
    Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
    Someone’s sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    Oh Lord, kumbaya
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:10am
  - Hacked-Off
    
    True Tony, but what will impact more on the public consciousness will be the deteriorating economy (which was deteriorating before the Co-vid crisis). This lot have no idea and nothing concentrates the mind like empty wallets, no jobs and failed businesses.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:39am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed HO. As Bill Clinton said, between cigars; “It’s the economy, stupid”
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:19pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Hoskings sticking it to the cops now. The closest he got to the front line was through a microphone.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:02am
  - Lance
    
    Oh let me guess, only Police Officers can criticize Police Officers, only cricketers can criticize cricketers etc etc etc
    
    Oy Vey
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:06am
  - Steve James
    
    And your credentials Brian?
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:13am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Non-partisan Steve, give it a try.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:24am
      - double d
        
        Sure you are Brian.
        
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        May 4, 2020 11:04am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      A Labour voter with single digit IQ. Those two go hand in hand any way.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:38am
- chukar
  
  Relying on lawyers to get a result is just feeding the wolves.
  Fat wolves with no results, and if there were a result the CoL would just change the law
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:20am
- sgthree
  
  there are at least two ‘illegalities’ with respect to the lockdown.
  First of all, we were supposedly put in lockdown at midnight on the 25th March, but the medical officer of health didn’t issue any orders requiring the general population to isolate until the 3rd April. The only order issued prohibited large gatherings.
  The second issue is whether the subsection in the Health Act actually allows the medical officer of health to issue the order he has. The subsection he is relying on gives him power to isolate, quarantine or disinfect. Clearly he hasn’t required us to be quarantined or disinfected, so the issue is whether the word isolate (which isn’t defined, so look up ordinary dictionary meaning) has such a wide meaning that it permits the following order
  http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0069/latest/whole.html
  I would have thought if the medical officer of health was meant to have the power he has purportedly exercised, the legislation would empower him to “make such orders relating to the movement and activities of any one or more persons as he sees fit” rather than a power to ‘isolate’.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:43am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Update: Bridges has just announced on Peter Williams’ show that the Epidemic Response Committee will summons David Parker to produce the legal opinion from Crown Law.
  
  Bridges says he hopes that Parker will comply, but if he does not, we should then take it as read that the advice from Crown Law was that there was doubt over whether the Police had the legal authority to act as they did.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:56am
- DeepBlue
  
  The refusal to release the Crown Law advice was a huge red flag. The government knowingly acted as they did. Your Honour, my defence is I was being kind.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:44pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It is quite routine for government to refuse to release legal advice.
    Technically, the Epidemic Response Committee could demand it, but select committees tend to defer to the government on such matters.
    
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    May 4, 2020 3:50pm
Scott

Ron DeSantis is reopening Florida today. They didn’t lock down as severely as other places but have had few deaths, especially for such a big state.

Governor DeSantis focussed on protecting the elderly especially nursing homes. Now they are going to use a 15 minute virus test kit to test relatives wanting to visit the elderly. If they get a negative test they can visit their elderly relatives. This is important as those old people may have not had visitors for two months.

Asked on Sunday morning futures on Fox news about federal bail out money he didn’t ask for any. Over in New York they’re asking for billions of dollars of bail out money. DeSantis wouldn’t want his state to bail out poorly managed states who haven’t been managed well for 20 years or more.

This is my kind of guy. Governs his people well, doesn’t ask for bail outs, sets his people back to work as soon as possible and protects the elderly and vulnerable.

Seems an on to it guy. But he’s a man, he’s fairly white, he’s a Republican and he’s probably Christian. So no plaudits in the mainstream media for him!

Here at home our female agnostic prime minister is adored by the world’s press. But will we ever be let out of lock down? Or will Ashley keep us on the naughty step forever for socialising together and having parties?

Will we ever be able to get back to work? And has Labour got any clue about governing this country that would put us on a path back to prosperity?
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May 4, 2020 8:04am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Sounding a bit jelly about the PM Scott?
  Not sure I’d be happy about the 15 min tests, Covid in a rest home is like a match to dry brush.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:58am
  - Scott
    
    Brian – I am frustrated with the Prime Minister and the government generally.
    As I have said before if you take the words “safety” and “freedom”, what relative importance do you put to them? It seems for many New Zealanders and for our government that safety is the most important thing. Essentially many New Zealanders are saying I will willingly give up all of my freedoms, just keep me safe from this disease.
    
    Maybe I’m a bit different? For me freedom is far far far more important than safety. I have a deep reaction to being told by government what I can do, what I can’t do and in great detail. The Prime Minister even wants to tell me whether I should take up a new hobby or not??
    
    Like are we children? Beneath the nice smile and the warm reasonable tone, there is a spirit of control that lurks there. Our leaders appear to be very comfortable telling us what to do and how to do it. Our leaders appear to be very comfortable controlling every aspect of our lives.
    
    Freedom loving people like myself just cannot abide that.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:06am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Benjamin Franklin once said: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:42am
      - Ian Boag
        
        I was reading this thing written by a trainee doctor (not in NZ). He was dealing with a dead motorcyclist – keeping it all working so the organs could be harvested. He was in a State where helmets are optional – had plowed into something hard and trashed his head.
        
        He mused there are two approaches to government
        
        (a) “Live free or die”
        (b) “Regulate me lightly so I can live”
        
        Just saying
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:32am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Ian:
        (a) “Live free or die”
        MY CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!
        (b) “Regulate me lightly so I can live”
        Definition of “lightly”?????
        NOT your decision!!!
        Action and consequence….should always be mine to make.
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:41am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I’m completely in agreement Scott, and so are several others it would appear.
      
      However. Substitute “Islam” for “covid” and see what happens to our respect for freedom and constitutional propriety in the face of a real, proven (overseas, in countries not like us) but improbable threat to our safety and wellbeing.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:16am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I look at it way different Scott. It wasn’t about my values but rather what seemed the best choice for all the population.
      My personal interest was my own family then the vulnerable. After that work which is everyone’s interests.
      There is an old saying never give a mug an even break. That, if applied to Covid, meant attack it straight away, instead of standing back and seeing what would happen.
      So, easy in a practical way. If it was a mistake, it is better to realise that it was rather than it wasn’t.
      Looking ahead now – expecting a better NZ to emerge.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:39am
      - double d
        
        Aaaaah the collective ….
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:02pm
    - Alex13
      
      “Like are we children?”
      Some are indeed. Adults know what freedom is: a recognized necessity. They also know that freedom and responsibility are tightly linked.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:59am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Segue to US protests against excessive lockdowns by state governors: Styx has an interesting take on it this as usual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0k_TIzARFY
      
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      May 4, 2020 2:11pm
  - kloyd0306
    
    How many NZers died from influenza last year?
    When you find out the number, compare it to the number who have died from coronavirus.
    
    Then ask yourself why the country wasn’t locked down.
    
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    May 4, 2020 2:23pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Those tests sound promising for cross border travel however, to get quarantine times down.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Definitely..
    If the Shetland Islands can confirm whether a person has the virus within 1 hour 10 minutes,
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52441255
    
    then
    it’s a damn sight more useful than waiting 4 and half weeks.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/415731/woman-on-flight-with-covid-19-case-contacted-by-tracing-team-4-point-5-weeks-later
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:14am
    - SGA
      
      If the Shetland Islands can confirm whether a person has the virus within 1 hour 10 minutes
      then
      it’s a damn sight more useful than waiting 4 and half weeks.
      
      Confirming a person has got the virus isn’t the same thing as confirming a person hasn’t got the virus (and that’s what quarantine measures are supposed to ensure).
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:27am
      - Durden
        
        Not sure you got that right. Currently, even if a person with potential symptoms e.g. fever, is tested and is confirmed negative, they are NOT quarantined
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:50am
      - SGA
        
        Sorry, I was thinking specifically of the useful of testing for people coming into NZ.
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:57am
    - freethinker
      
      Maggie I too heard that women and her story re inforces my view that a principle cause of much of our problems lie at the feet of politicians making laws & regulations in response to pressure from their supporters often to protect or advantage their supporters and then the enforcement by the bureacrats. Solution for every new law repeal 5 and for every regulation repeal 10 then repurpose the bureacrats if thats not an oxcymoron.
      
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      May 4, 2020 11:26am
  - backster
    
    Those 15 minute tests were developed by Abbot Laboratories , have been proven and the only restriction is in meeting demand.
    They also show if one is carrying the antibody.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:43am
- Monique Watson
  
  Gavin Newsom has us in lockdown for another month after six weeks and we have to wear fucking face masks in public. His mug’s all over the media as is Pelosi’s. Not happy. In breach of the 14th. It’s all political maneuvering. Not happy.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:01am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Tony Heller gets it. Watch this video he put out today – the same things are happening here as in the USA, and he quotes proper science on this virus.
    
    https://realclimatescience.com/2020/05/new-video-the-new-normal/
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:14am
    - Doc Holliday
      
      Why visit crank sites when you have realclimate and Nasa…
      
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      May 4, 2020 7:21pm
- freethinker
  
  The clowns impersonating a government and their pet enforcers in blue will discover you cannot beat numbers and when sufficient people actively ignore instructions or “Law” you have lost, same happens at elections as corbin discovered despite the opinion polls.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:14am
  - EuropeanCanon
    
    Yes agreed. But will NZers do that? This lockdown has proven to me that the country is filled with conformist, docile snitches who accept the propaganda totally.
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:17am
- Ian Boag
  
  That will be an antibody test. There are over 100 different ones on the market in the US. Oodles made in China too. None of them have FDA approval. The UK ordered a few million then cancelled the order. Other countries have had similar issues.
  
  The problems with antibody tests are well known. Current antibody tests are either not sensitive enough or likely to give false positives because they react to other things as well as COVID (or both). I wish there was a test that is up to snuff – the whole world would be buying it.
  
  You can buy yourself test kits from
  
  http://www.haierthermometer.com/5pcs-coronavirus-test-sars-cov-2-covid-19-antibody-test-strip-rapid-corona-virus-test-kit-p2586367.html
  
  USD100 for a pack of 5. Free postage to NZ.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:49am
  - Durden
    
    Iceland have tested over 12% of their small population for antibodies. So there are tests available with sufficiently acceptable accuracy to find spread. The test is not considered sufficient as a diagnostic i.e. a health worker cannot be sent in to work with patients based in this test alone. They would need a standard PCR. Two serological tests spread out in time confirming immunity may be acceptable.
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:38am
- Littletramp
  
  A very important question should be asked here.
  Is the result of any test being used to allow access anywhere unable to find evidence of the virus (a negative result), or does it actually prove the virus does not exist in the person being tested? It is only a subtle difference but the gap between the two outcomes can mean life or death if a negative result recipient proves asymptomatic.
  Until a test can determine the virus does not exist in the tested person, we should not be leaning too heavily on any test. Hence the reason solutions require sufficient time to be clinically proven.
  I am all in favour of “right to try” attitude where an individual has a terminal condition, but in making decisions for populations the goal should be certainty.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:32am
hullkiwi

Yesterday, the Auckland Ratepayers Alliance released the Auckland Council Rich List. While there are some obvious errors, in general it is accurate. It also reveals the extent of the Peter Principle amongst Auckland Council and its CCO agencies. Making it a sad reflection of modern NZ and Auckland.
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May 4, 2020 8:05am
Happychappy

This will go down like a bucket of puke.
Helen Clark : Woman Leaders better in CORID-19 crisis ” because they do t have such big egos “.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/helen-clark-women-leaders-better-in-covid-19-crisis-because-they-don-t-have-such-big-egos
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May 4, 2020 8:06am
- MrTips
  
  Well that’s a helpful statement. So much for equality, sounds like its all about being and proving XX is better.
  
  Wonder what Freud would say?
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:48am
- hullkiwi
  
  Really? Rich given NZ’s response has been all about the ego of JA and being re-elected in September.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:58am
- cmm
  
  Because they are not data driven perhaps?
  I don’t think she has evidence to back up her claim, but then things like evidence, logical thought etc are part of the patriarchy.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:07am
  - Ruawai
    
    Helen is being very sexist, imagine if a man said that about men being better.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:36am
- Nickc2
  
  I feel a pots and kettles response with something of colour is needed here.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:08am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Pot, kettle of colour?
    
    Loses something in the pc translation imo
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:45am
    - Nickc2
      
      Read between the lines as someone of no notoriety once said.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:18am
- Jack5
  
  Finland’s Prime Minister, Sanna Marin, 34, is a looker.
  
  Marin was raised in a rainbow family, too – her mum has a lesbian partner. So Marin’s one up on Jacinderella in the feminista stakes.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:44am
lifesgood

I may be incredibly stupid but could someone please explain to me how long viruses can survive outside the body. I can’t fathom why, if there are no inward flights into NZ and currently only very few well contained cases of covid, we are still in lockdown and being threatened with a second wave.
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May 4, 2020 8:06am
- fernglas
  
  There are regular inward flights into NZ. About 3000 people are in quarantine. About half of Covid-19 cases are asymptomatic, so the Government really has no idea how many cases there are. The problem is with a failure to test. There is excess testing capacity, but arrivals are only being tested if they report having one or more of a narrow range of symptoms. Nor is there any community testing to determine the prevalence of the virus in the community. So, in a nutshell, the Government really has no idea how many cases there are in the community and there is the possibility that cases are coming in through quarantine undetected. To admit that would be to conceal the extent of the failure of this policy.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:00am
- PhilBest
  
  It depends on the humidity level indoors where the virus is. At low humidity they will be airborne and we don’t know how long they survive. At medium to high humidity, they precipitate onto surfaces; at medium humidity their half-life is about 6 hours and at high humidity this is about 18 hours.
  
  In direct sunshine the half-life is 2 to 3 minutes. The higher the UV the shorter the virud half-life.
  
  Guess why NZ never really had a problem? And why winter virus infection rates always die out in summer, even in the Northern Hemisphere?
  
  The bad faith and /or incompetence of the government’s so-called “experts” is further illustrated by bans on activities that take people out into the sunlight where viruses on skin and clothing will be speedily killed off! I hope the Royal Commission we have one day, gets to consider all this bad faith and incompetence.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    But what about punishment for the lack of duty of care and bad faith?
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:47am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Probably just a few hours in the air…
  Perhaps a day or two on some surfaces.
  https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-covid-19-how-long-does-the-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:19am
- MCos
  
  Incoming people are only one source of the virus.
  For example an incoming person was the initial cause of 90+ wedding guests down at Gore who then had the individual potential to spread the virus to who knows how many more if nothing had been done.
  At the moment there are 200+ min infected people. If all restrictions were removed we’d undoubtedly see a increase because not everyone has the same understanding of the responsibilities of being an ‘upright citizen’
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:36am
Loddenthinks

I did something today that I haven’t done for a very long time – watched a Duncan Garner interview with Jacinda. He made a compelling case for moving to Level 2 immediately, and cited experts (including an epidemiologist) who said that the only reason for not moving to Level 2 is if the health system can’t cope with another outbreak, and it clearly can.

Also experts that stated, as many of us have for some time, that we have broken this thing, that this week looks like last week, and next week would look like this week, and asked the very reasonable question of what metrics would satisfy the Prime Minister that it is safe to move down a level.

She could hardly have been more patronizing and snarky, congratulating Duncan on his new qualification as an epidemiologist. She also asked the following question verbatim:
“Do you doubt for a moment that I do not care about businesses?” I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt that she simply doesn’t know how to construct a sentence properly, but she actually asked if we doubted that she DOESN’T care about business – Freudian slip perhaps?

She played the kindness and caring card, and said that it was a good thing that we had empty hospitals around the country, dismissing those with much more serious health issues than the flu, who have been unable to receive elective surgery and other treatment, for 2 months by the time she allows us to go to Level 2, to further pain, stress and anxiety.

Thank you Duncan for attempting to hold the Prime Minister to account.
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May 4, 2020 8:07am
- pdm
  
  My 95 year old uncle went into Hastings Hospital emergency dept by Ambulance on Saturday night – at about 1am. Fortunately nothing too serious.
  
  When I picked him up to take him home yesterday morning he said he was the only one in there.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:16am
  - cmm
    
    I don’t know what Hastings hospital is like, but Christchurch hospital ED has two areas: the main ED which is always busy and a observation area that is off to the side which is more like a ward.
    
    Last time I was in ED (pre lockdown) I spent about an hour in the main area then was shifted to the observation area which was very quiet (only one other person – asleep).
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:14am
- PhilBest
  
  “Kindness” is a sham in these circumstances when your options are two evils, one lesser and one greater. The “kind” and ignorant politician out of touch with economic and “main street” realities is prone to choose the worse evil and call it “kindness”.
  
  As for claiming the government’s epidemiologists represent “epidemiology expertise” per se, I say no, this is a large part of the problem. The profession is obviously divided and it is just too convenient for a certain political agenda, that a certain type of person just happens to be in ALL the government advisory roles. This is a problem in every policy area, not just health.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:17am
  - Nickc2
    
    In practice, doctors often call for second opinions. I didn’t hear this doctor say he had called for any other opinions, Perhaps he should? Then again, maybe not as he had Cindy there and she knows everything about everything but conveniently forgets about lies she’s told.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Sycophants breed.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:48am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is why I can’t watch such interviews. I could be convinced that all this will deliver net benefits but I have seen no evidence based cases. It is catastrophic that these people have control over our lives.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:20am
- pjams
  
  I get concerned about the threats to extend level 3 if we don’t behave ourselves. Like they feel the need to punish us for being disobedient little school children to keep us towing the party line rather than treating us as adults with half a brain. (Though part of me wants them to deal out the punishment and piss half the country off – might make some see sense about this Government and how they operate).
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:20am
  - PhilBest
    
    C S Lewis’s quote on the “tyranny of omnipotent moral busybodies” is apropos. The lesser known last sentences are
    
    “…This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals…”
    
    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/quotation-of-the-day-on-moral-busybodies-vs-robber-barons-and-self-medication-as-a-basic-right/
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:09am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, it looks more like dog training – rewarding compliance – rather than responding to the key indicators such as infection rates etc.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:15am
    - yossarian
      
      What do you think that the whole allow the pleebs have some Maccas was all about? She knows her audience.
      
      While those who are struggling to keep their businesses going are with their backs to the wall, she knows that a feed of KFC will appease the stupid, and she’s a hero again
      
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      May 4, 2020 12:52pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes,
    Just like those ghastly school assemblies which everyone was made to attend at interval or Lunchtime after some scrot had set the fire-alarms/watering systems on and we all had to WAIT until he confessed (or was dobbed in).
    
    I never got the impression that such a practice was very effective….. seemed to indicate that the authorities were clueless as to what was going on around the school.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:36am
  - Ruawai
    
    Let us all going to level 1 but with 2 metre social distancing at all times.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:45am
  - Paulus
    
    You mean like wreckers and haters !
    
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    May 4, 2020 2:06pm
- Peter Lane
  
  Let’s sum this up:
  
  1. I know best.
  
  2. You have no right to ask any questions that may be even slightly critical of me.
  
  3. If you don’t tow the line we’ll be back in Level 4 because I say so.
  
  They’re losing the public at a rate of knots here. They don’t seem to realise that if the general population decide enough is enough then that will be that.
  
  Also noticed that there were still 30% idiots who voted in the poll to extend Level 3.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:20am
  - Crisplion
    
    I sure hope you’re right that they’re losing the public. It would almost be worth another week of economic catastrophe if that would make the difference between Ardern winning and losing the election. Even though the pain would be worse in the short term, the recovery will be a lot faster if there’s a change of government, especially if ACT picks up a few seats and becomes more influential. Seymour for Minister of Finance!
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:30am
    - freethinker
      
      Party vote ACT, with 10 MPs ACT will keep National honest and insert the common sense it currently lacks.
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:14pm
  - Lee C
    
    In short:
    
    “I have Narcissistic Personality Disorder”…
    
    Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:
    
    Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
    Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
    
    Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
    
    Exaggerate achievements and talents
    Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
    
    Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
    
    Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
    Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
    
    Take advantage of others to get what they want
    Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
    
    Be envious of others and believe others envy them
    Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
    Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:43am
    - Komata
      
      LeeC@0843
      
      Thank you.
      
      Those with a long memory may recall the late Penny Bright as another example of NPD..
      
      There were/ are certain similarities…
      
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      May 4, 2020 8:54am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      No that can’t be right. Helen Clark herself said that women leaders handle COVID-19 better “because they don’t have big egos” and she’s always right – her ego tells her so.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:01am
  - Level 3.9 Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
    
    With all CoronaPorn we have had in the media since January 2020 I’m surprised the number who wish to continue lockup is as HIGH as 30%.
    
    Looks like Jacinda’s chooks are returning to the roost 🙂
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:46am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      It’s the arrogant, selfish fools that are enjoying being paid without having to work. Of course they want the lockdown extended.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:55am
      - tf78
        
        That 30% can just stay in their bubble forever if they wish and do us all a favour- they’re not necessary for our society to function.
        
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        May 4, 2020 2:14pm
    - Durden
      
      Public Sector (414K) Public Sector contractors/consultants (20% of public sector employee budget say equiv of 82K) Beneficiaries (315K) > 65 on NZ Super (873K) 70k teachers
      
      Roughly a total of 1.75 Million
      
      https://ssc.govt.nz/our-work/workforce-data/the-composition-of-the-wider-public-sector/
      
      https://ssc.govt.nz/assets/SSC-Site-Assets/System-and-Agency-Performance-Team/Contractor-and-Consultant-Expenditure-FY-2017-2018.pdf
      
      https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/benefit/2020/monthly-public-update/monthly-public-update-mar-2020-final.pdf
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113409891/can-new-zealands-superannuation-age-remain-at-65
      
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      May 4, 2020 12:55pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Lost me at the beginning, once it became apparent that this was just going to be a bad Flu year.
    
    “Absolutely” no reason to completely trash the economy, unless there was another agenda.
    
    Now for some stupidity from Police
    
    The local liquor store have done themselves up like a condom, wrapped in plastic, with a 30cm by 40cm gap to serve customer’s, freezer as a barrier, log book, hand sanitizer, right over the top.
    Last night one of the workers was out front, didn’t make any sense, so I asked the question.
    They had been raided by a Police under cover operation, for selling over the counter.
    Because of the condom and the fact that a lot of their customers are terminally stupid, it was too hard to convey that they had to call the phone number, place the order and then wait 5 minutes to pick it up.
    The customer in question said he did not have a cell phone, then he had one in the car but no credits, so he had to go to the Dairy in the same block to get a top up so he could order his alcohol.
    Thye liquor shop was warned, threatened with prosecution and a black mark for their next license application. Sales have halved. You can walk into the Supermarket and Dairy.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:47am
    - bruceavon
      
      yes. I went to my local shops yesterday and the butchers, greengrocers, bakery and bottle shop were all open. And had go through a pantomime with the bottle shop. I turned up at the door and asked for an aussie shiraz around 15 bucks. He told me I had to phone them. So I stood at his door and phoned him to ask for a bottle of wine. But he couldn’t hear me on my phone because of the rain. So he just gave up and asked me at the door. All the while looking around for presumably cops. Was all very stupid. Not sure how all the other shops were open though. They must have just decided to plant the law.
      
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      May 4, 2020 11:51am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    “Also noticed that there were still 30% idiots who voted in the poll to extend Level 3.”
    
    These will probably be public servants who are off work but still on full pay and loving it.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:03am
    - PhilBest
      
      National should pass a law next time they are in office, that any “lockdown” ever enacted needs to share the pain by an immediate 30% pay cut for all government employees both national and local, apart from medical workers – and anyone on over $80,000 gets it chopped to $80,000, as long as the lockdown lasts. Hey, they don’t care about businesses folding, they shouldn’t protest about bearing this pain in a good cause?
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:13am
    - Steve James
      
      And bums Captain, bums that were bums before covid 19, bums during covid 19 and will be bums after covid 19.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:18am
  - Ruahine
    
    The 30% will likely be all those lucky PSA members and teacher types who are having it easy not having had to do anything meaningful for six weeks all on full pay. Meanwhile in the real world where all the money for the taxes that they live on comes from comes from Labour is doing great work destroying the tax base.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:21am
  - Im Right
    
    Public service workers either working from home or at home not working, but getting their pay each fortnight….of course its their own wee personal ‘holiday’ and wont want to end….and watch the PSA union call for a pay increase for its members in about 6mths time.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:29am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Employees on short pay or at home are getting fed up too. I’ve got a lot to deal with who claim their KiwiSaver contributions have not been paid over to the Fund Managers.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:52am
  - Alex13
    
    How do you know that those 30% were not the smartest ones?
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:10am
- Chris Peace
  
  We cannot go to Level 2 “early” because the Government is not prepared. Grant Robertson said on Friday that they would spend this week working out the details of Level 2.
  Good grief. At least 10 more days while the Government sorts out its own s**t.
  The problem is with the Government & not with us.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The MINFIN now becomes Level2 Poohbah?
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:52am
- JackRabbit
  
  US Covid-19 death toll already almost half that previously reported. 37,000 vs the previously reported 60,000. CDC says that is not a “mistake” because of a log in getting updates.
  
  A lag in getting figures would have the figure initially lower not higher. But here we are, initially higher, now downgraded. Given that the level of lock down was dependent on the death toll, and that the level of economic ruin, is impacted by the level of lock down.
  
  If the figures are lagging reality, does that mean that newer figures will decrease the death toll even further?
  
  A disgrace, and an “Emperor’s New Clothes” moment.
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR2d6yXX14Cct9aOtJ7Cv6Q5YWjIL4-7ZvKyoLi_Obox7SWoYrK66nyuT4s
  
  https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/coronavirus-death-toll-cdc-misinformation
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:54am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The PM lost her cool in her interview with Hosking this morning on ZB, and just for a moment, the mask dropped. I suspect Ms Ardern is under intense pressure this morning, and the controversy over leaked Police and MoH emails suggest that not everyone in the public service is happy with what her government is up to.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How to annoy a PM.
    The offense to her is in that Hosking was able to get hold of the material. All Govt business is secret so how dare he?
    She will bust her fufu valve if there is more.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:57am
- BobbyS
  
  I missed that interview (thank god) but if she did patronise him, he should have called her out – “Your reply is patronising, I’m stating advise from an Epidemiologist, instead of being unkind with your reply, please answer the question! NZers are looking for an answer to this question, respect their request and answer it!” I am known for been blunt & succinct, but that’s what this bi%$h needs, someone to tell her to stop lying and answer the fuc%$ng questions!
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:06am
  - Alex13
    
    Yeah, “I missed the interview, but I have a very strong opinion about it!” What a load of …
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:13am
- gorse
  
  I congratulate the PM on being such a well qualified
  epidemiologist.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:36am
  - alwyn
    
    Could she pronounce the word correctly?
    How did that old saw go?
    “Last week I couldn’t even spell epydemiodovist and now I are one”
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:29am
- kowtow
  
  Did he ask her if Ashley Bloomfield recommended closing the border in February ?
  
  ” It even turns out the Government was formally told by Bloomfield to completely close the borders in February.
  
  They said ‘no thanks’, and the compromise came way too late.”
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/duncan-garner-we-allowed-covid-19-to-be-walked-into-new-zealand.html
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:09am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  I watch Garner and the AM show most mornings. Great show this morning. Finding though I’m having to fast forward through any parts where the Gillies woman opens her mouth. She’s still scared we will end up like New York and Italy. She needs some new material. (swap her out for Tova O’brien? )
  
  Garner and Richardson literally the lone NZ tv media offering the view to open up. Have not watched Tv one since the crisis began. I must add Paul Henry’s show has also been very good, at times. Tv3 is to be commended for taking this stance.
  
  Even Sydney Morning Herald had an article yesterday basically mocking NZ for the demolition of our economy by Ardern’s overzealous and unnecessarily lengthy lockdown. https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/frustration-in-new-zealand-as-lockdown-hits-employment-20200503-p54peq.html
  
  When the ramifications of this approach kick in, which I predict will be over the next few years, we will be well ahead of oz in unemployment. Predicting a big exodus to Australia by NZers coming up.
  
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  May 4, 2020 11:01am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I also noted that Jacinda trumpeted that the economy was back to 75% in her interview with Garner this morning. When he expressed surprise and asked where she got that figure from, she snapped: “Treasury. Would you like me to send it to you?”
  
  So I went and had a look at Treasury’s latest briefing from 1 May (Friday) and the exact wording is this (it’s copy and pasted so the fairly egregious errors in the key sentence are included from the treasury website):
  
  “Businesses across the country reopened on Tuesday as lockdown restrictions eased, with some creatively adapting their business models to comply with ongoing health and safety measures. Businesses unable to comply with the measures and we expect activity to be around 25% below normal levels until restrictions are eased further. Alert level 3 currently remains in place for two weeks and will be reviewed by Cabinet before 11 May.”
  
  So at best it’s an estimate, it appears only to be related to the number of businesses able to open, and it has no definition of what “activity” means. Plus, they appear incapable of constructing a sentence properly, so who knows what they really mean?
  
  And this is the nugget our Prime Minister held up and tried to dazzle Garner with. He was right to be skeptical, I only wish more of the MSM were.
  
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  May 4, 2020 11:55am
Maggy Wassilieff

How legal is the Lockdown?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018745018/coronavirus-police-needed-clarity-over-lockdown-powers-early-on-coster

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329263
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May 4, 2020 8:07am
- NK
  
  I think the answer is “not very”.
  
  58 2
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  May 4, 2020 8:10am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    To paraphrase Scribe, not very, if at all.
    
    Watch this space.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:59am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      What’s to watch Tony?
      The test applied is did people comply and the answer is yes, apart from some gang members and wide boys. Did the public approve, and were the requirements considered to be of probable benefit for the greater community – so 2 more yes’s.
      You’re looking in the rear vision mirror again and not at the road ahead.
      When are you going back to work BTW?
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:12am
      - Frank Hematuria
        
        “….apart from some gang members and wide boys….” – and over a hundred people at a tangi. You missed that bit.
        
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        May 4, 2020 9:30am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I’ve been working from home all the way through Brian. Thanks for your continued interest in my welfare!
        
        As for “what’s to watch”, I would suggest that most New Zealanders would be concerned if the Police were doing something they had no legal authority to do. And I reckon they would be even more concerned if they found out the Government had received legal advice that what the Police was doing was illegal, and chose to ignore it.
        
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        May 4, 2020 9:45am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Public sentiment is important Tony. We know that the public accepted the lockdown by a large majority – on that basis you are on a hiding to nothing. But don’t let that stop you from being outraged.
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:44am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The Government cannot require the Police to do something unlawful. Nor can the Government change the law on the hoof, without going through the full Parliament.
        
        We may be viewing this from opposite sides of the political fence Brian, but I’m sure you would agree with me that the Government willfully breaking the law of the land is not healthy.
        
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        May 4, 2020 1:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  See this (today’s):
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/police-officers-were-uneasy-about-enforcing-lockdown
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:18am
- PhilBest
  
  In Britain: a Judicial Review action is being crowdfunded
  
  https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:19am
- PhilBest
  
  There needs to be fast-track legal processes by which qualified experts such as epidemiologists can legally challenge the “expert advice” that the government is choosing to listen to as a justification for emergency powers. Otherwise all it takes is for the right “tame” experts to stack all the government advisory positions and it is hello, Police State at any time.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:22am
  - NK
    
    I agree entirely.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:49am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “Otherwise all it has taken is the right “tame” experts to stack all the government advisory positions and it became a Police State.
    
    There fixed it for you.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:55am
  - fernglas
    
    The route is to challenge the decisions being made as unreasonable by a process of judicial review, and that can be done very quickly
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:07am
  - JackRabbit
    
    As an employer you can catch an employee making bogus “refunds”, on products that were never purchasd from the store.
    
    You can provide evidence in the form of serial numbers of product that never left the store but got refunded, evidence that of 55 refunds, 54 happened on his shift, the credit card / EFTPOS card number the refunds were issued to (his) and his bank account history obtained by court order that show the refunds going back into his bank account.
    
    The police will not prosecute because there is a “risk” that prosecution will not succeed.
    
    Yet, you can be outside your property with a few mates at 2m distances and no risk, and you get prosecuted. Yet same person can send their children to school which has a greater risk.
    
    The “rule” is not to stop corona virus spread, but to limit the amount personal contacts to complain about the lock down. A tactic employed by the Communist Nazis, Communist Soviets, Communist Cubans et all.
    
    By limiting personal contacts, people are forced to communicate through Email, Skype, Phone, Txt, Facebook, Zoom etc, all of which can be tracked.
    
    Not only is social media tracked, indexed and monitored, but all social media apps, scrape your contact lists so that it is very easy to track who knows who. If you are deemed an “enemy of the state”, they also know who is also a likely “enemy of the state”.
    
    Keeping tabs on who is who, has always been a strong point of communists states. Having everything digitised and in the cloud, makes the tracking process 60,000 times easier.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:12am
    - freethinker
      
      Until people wise up and defeat the system by Eg write an e mail with as many trigger words as you can think of – Bomb, Gun, attack, kill (add persons of choice.)re send evry hour say 8 times a day so if only 500,000 kiwis did this 4 million e mails to scan even for AI is a big task. Then real e mails with code or slang words will be more difficult to identify.
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:46pm
  - RightFirstTime
    
    So many “experts”……..so little sense.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:47am
    - JackRabbit
      
      So many “people with titles pretending to be experts”.
      
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      May 4, 2020 3:27pm
- MT_Tinman
  
  ’tain’t the house arrest that needs challenging for legality, it is the dictatorship and State of Emergency.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:30am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Phil Best can do the challenge he knows everything and he’s got friends that he really respects and they agree with him.
    The pleadings will make great readings. He could also mention how many times he got the 1st post on KB – that ought to keep him standing.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:14am
- DeepBlue
  
  ‘pretty legal’ (Def. we think so, if we say it enough everyone will believe us, and we hope it won’t be tested in court)
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:31am
- stewmar
  
  How legal is the Lockdown?
  
  Has this been tested in the Courts yet?
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Parker challenged National to go to court if they wanted access to the Crown Law opinion. I think they just might take him up on that now.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:00am
- JibberJabber
  
  Pretty legal?
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:45am
- cmm
  
  If Parker said it is legal, and it is not, then he has lied to us.
  
  Is politics the only career in which people can continually lie without being fired?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:17am
burt

Watching the news on Saturday I saw how $300,000,000 was being pumped into air freight by Air NZ. I don’t know about others here but I was very happy our tax payers money is being used to ensure wealthy people overseas have continued access to live crayfish.
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May 4, 2020 8:08am
- burt
  
  Two down ticks already. I guess since the vast majority of nz people can’t afford to dine on live crayfish it makes more sense than I thought it did to use tax payers money ensuring wealthy people overseas can still eat them while we subsidise them.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    If you can’t figure out the reasons for keeping Air NZ in business, burt, then I guess there will be lots of other things that are also too complicated for you to understand.
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:31am
    - burt
      
      Convince me that making sure luxury food items that most people in this country can’t afford are worthy of tax payers subsidy for off shore consumers,
      
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      May 4, 2020 8:54am
    - burt
      
      And keeping Air NZ in business is one thing, keeping them in business by using our money to make sure people offshore can get the things most of us can’t afford – and using that example on state funded media, shows how out of touch you socialists are.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:00am
      - KiWombat
        
        Oh burt – whilst you rightfully acknowledge that we give our crayfish a first class ticket to get out of here, and no doubt our dairy products have to resort to economy class. you conveniently (?) seem to forget that they return to our shores loaded to the gunwales with our hoki, and pallets of iPhones and TV sets !
        
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        May 4, 2020 10:07am
    - PhilBest
      
      I’m a libertarian purist on the subject of “national airlines”. They don’t achieve anything that an “open skies” policy would achieve even better.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:14am
  - Lee C
    
    I down-ticked you or using the word ‘crayfish’.
    
    Just don’t like the word.
    
    12 2
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    May 4, 2020 8:44am
    - Monique Watson
      
      I know what you mean. Some words I can’t stomach. ‘Candlestick’ comes to mind. First arena we drove past when we came to the Bay Area was Candlestick Park. Ugh.
      
      6 2
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      May 4, 2020 8:50am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You prefer Spiny red rock lobster?
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:32pm
- Blackface Twin Reverb
  
  Money coming into the country is more important than ever, and you’d have to be a weapons grade moron not to understand that.
  
  If you want to make a case that it’s a poor investment of precious resources, we’re all ears.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:25am
  - burt
    
    Ok sure, most people in NZ can’t afford to dine on fresh crayfish, convince me that using tax payers money so people offshore don’t go without is good for NZ.
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:05am
    - fernglas
      
      It’s not just crayfish. All sorts of fresh produce leaves here by plane all the time. This will enhance the country’s ability to tap the overseas market for fresh food, amongst others. Unless you think we should go back to sending frozen lamb and butter to the Mother country?
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:10am
    - alloytoo
      
      Well, if we can’t afford them, best to export them then.
      
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      May 4, 2020 9:58am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      Because the offshore people can pay a premium, that grows the pie and keeps people employed.
      Money coming in has to be better than money just going around.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:06am
      - burt
        
        The offshore people aren’t paying the premium, they are paying the normal price and we’re paying to subsidise that. God forbid the crayfish people need to drop their price and sell them on the domestic market. Much better to take a kittle bit of all of us so they can continue running a business NZ people can’t afford to support.
        
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        May 4, 2020 11:03am
      - Blackface Twin Reverb
        
        Hmm, let me see, should I:
        a/ sell an unknown amount of my product to the local market, ad a sizable reduction in profitability
        -or-
        b/ send the lot overseas where I can get top dollar, keep my staff employed and fulfill my business goals.
        
        You’ve failed to show how sustaining exports is bad. Have you tried using facts and figures?
        
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        May 4, 2020 11:58am
- DeepBlue
  
  We have to get raw materials back to NZ for manufacturing, and export product to earn some $. It makes sense to fill planes with the highest value product per kg of weight. The subsidy is to ensure a not full plane (in either direction) runs to a schedule.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:38am
- Lance
  
  Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  You think Air NZ only carries crayfish?
  
  And not insulin supplies, medicines, facemasks, primary products for export etc etc.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:12am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    If we don’t sell crayfish how can we buy basics? I will shortly need to import medicinal containers–they’ve got get here somehow.
    We shouldn’t be bothered that we can get a high price for our crayfish elsewhere–that’s a blessing.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:07am
    - alwyn
      
      If you are only importing the containers, which by implication are empty, why can’t they come by boat?
      There are still plenty of ships arriving in out ports you know.
      Did you not plan very well, and forgot to order them?
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:36am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I can order lots of 50 economically with cheap post and avoid customs costs–close to a JIT model.
        
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        May 4, 2020 1:12pm
- chaos
  
  Yes how dare these planes still be flying and bringing medicines and medical equipment back into New Zealand. How dare they still be bringing international mail back into the country. And worse keeping businesses alive and people employed by taking those products to market and bringing products back into nz. Let’s hope in protest you throw away every foreign made imported product you own.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:38am
Don Beckett

Virus: The COVID-19 Hoax
By Selwyn Duke
When I speak of a hoax and The Virus, I don’t mean there isn’t in our population a pathogen identified loosely as COVID-19 or, as the “unwoke” might say, the Wuhan Flu. As with past respiratory diseases, it’s also dangerous to the vulnerable. But as data increasingly show — and as I and some others have been saying all along — this current situation is very different from past pandemics in one significant and deadly way: It’s not being treated as only a medical/health issue.

It’s being treated as a political issue.

And as the Soviet Union’s Lysenkoism demonstrated, politics kills science.

I recently dubbed the Wuhan Flu the “Wizard of Oz Virus” because its reputation greatly exceeds its power. This was evident long ago, too. We only had to look at the early data coming out on Italy and a certain quarantined cruise ship, after all.

While the following might have changed a bit over time, we heard early on that 99-plus percent of the Italian victims had comorbidities and that their average age was 79.5. Italy is also a graying nation, with 23 percent of the population in its most affected area (the north) more than 65 years old.

Additionally, Italy has a wanting health care system, and stories emerged about askew triage-oriented priorities causing certain elderly to be denied care. Italy’s economic ties with Beijing also meant there were direct flights from Wuhan and 100,000 Chinese working in its factories.

There are other differences, too. One I pointed out is that Italy has an “un-social-distancing” culture, with acquaintances engaging in a lot of touching, and personal space between them only two to three feet (vs. four in North America).

Then there was the cruise ship Diamond Princess, which was quarantined off Japan’s coast in February and at one time had more than half the Wuhan virus cases outside of China. Of the 3,711 people on board, 712 (19.2 percent) contracted the disease and 13 (1.8 percent) died.

Yet note that this ship was called a disease incubator; the average age of those aboard was 58, with 33 percent over 70; and medical care was sub-par. Note, too, to illustrate the latter group’s (the elderly’s) vulnerability, that they were dying during a four-week stretch in 2018 at “a rate of 169 people a day [in the U.S.], or seven people per hour” of the common flu, reported the AARP.

In other words, there was never a reason to believe the Wuhan virus would transform America into Black Plague-ravaged medieval Europe. The Enemedia pretended to know this at one time, too.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/05/a_wizard_of_oz_virus_the_covid19_hoax.html#ixzz6LPb0UgBs
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
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May 4, 2020 8:14am
- PhilBest
  
  Some of us on Kiwiblog have been pointing out all that evidence over the last 6 weeks as it was emerging.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:16am
- kowtow
  
  ‘its reputation greatly exceeds its power.’
  
  You can thank the Media party for that . Northern Italy then New York, fear and scare mongering that panicked the politicians into draconian measures that are now passed off by the same Media Party as “leadership” .
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:17am
G152

Well, Cindy had better start to go to ‘Situation normal get back to work peasants’ because there’s signs of dissension in the ranks.
And who knows just how many workplaces will close and how high the unemployment rate will be.
This is going to take at least a year to get over and her daily harangue from Parliament is going to rebound in spite of their pet polling company…
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May 4, 2020 8:16am
- Paulus
  
  Wynston is now her greatest dissenter as we will now see.
  He is making himself very relevant.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:14pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Winston is trying to make himself and his bunch of fools look even vaguely relevant leading into the next election.
    
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    May 4, 2020 2:34pm
Level 3.9 Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy

And to make matters even worse for the trendy lefties:

PLANET OF THE HUMANS
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May 4, 2020 8:20am
- oldfella
  
  ‘Planet of the Humans’, Michael Moore’s great takedown of the renewable fuels scam – available to watch for free on Youtube – till the green movement have it banned as they’re trying to do.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:53am
KevO'Brien

The rise and rise of Bill Gates who brought you your computer virus:
https://www.rt.com/news/487634-mikhalkov-bill-gates-microchip-implants/
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May 4, 2020 8:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hah, even RT call this a conspiracy theory!
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:32am
  - MrTips
    
    COVID1984 eh Mike!? You’re onto it!
    
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    May 4, 2020 8:54am
- freethinker
  
  Kev – Thanks for the informative link. Within the link was another item on possible Covid deaths in China – https://www.ntd.com/the-closing-of-21-million-cell-phone-accounts-in-china-may-suggest-a-high-ccp-virus-death-toll_447579.html
  The scale of closed Cell & Landline accounts does raise questions and I have read of info out of Taiwan of people with rellies in Wuhan of deaths at 120,00 with some substantiation by the delivery of 10,000 Ashes Urns to crematoria in Wuhna with pictures against about 4000 total deaths officially reported in whole of China. No doubt some cell phone account closures will be for legitimate reasons but even if a fraction are death related the situation in China may be catastrophic.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:01am
- bruceavon
  
  The bill gates microchip conspiracy can be used as a case model for how flaky ideas get promoted, monetised and gain ground in the lazy press. About as credible as the – Hillary Clinton is running a pedophile ring from underneath a pizza shop. gates has done more to warn about a novel corona virus and to look for a vaccine than anyone else in the world.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Unfortunately MS have patents on such technology. Some nerds are so narrow minded as to be really dangerous.
    https://www.theinternetpatrol.com/microsoft-and-others-create-id2020-alliance-to-force-digital-id-on-all-perhaps-by-vaccine/
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:13am
Ruahine

The tone of the interviewees is quite telling. The more ones sees and reads about this whole thing I am coming around to the belief that this virus was deliberatelty allowed to come into the country.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300003549/coronavirus-social-cohesion-among-kiwis-threatened-postcovid-say-experts
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May 4, 2020 8:26am
- Loddenthinks
  
  May I direct you to Hanlon’s Razor?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:26am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Downtick in error, apologies.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:22am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Uptick in forgiveness 🙂
      
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      May 4, 2020 11:40am
BeeJay

Living on a significant road in BOP it’s clear that the change in traffic volumes from Alert 4 to 3 is a hell of a lot more than “essential traffic” now! As is the traffic parked by Beach Access points! I think lots of people have had enough of the restrictions and if they can’t work they’ll take the kids to the beach! (You’re allowed to exercise)! Ardern is loving the power over the people and it’s going to bite her in the arse, sooner rather than later!
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May 4, 2020 8:29am
Don Beckett

This final paragraph from the same article is very relevant:

“But, again, in those times disease wasn’t a political issue.
Now, of course, data are showing what cooler heads have long theorized: The Wuhan flu mortality rate may end up being similar to the flu’s; the doom-and-gloom computer-model projections were way off; lockdowns are deadlier than what they supposedly combat; perhaps 80-plus percent of the afflicted are asymptomatic or only mildly affected; the infection rate is far higher than most “experts” suspected; and as with the flu, going outside, living relatively normally and establishing herd immunity (while protecting the vulnerable) is the best way to eliminate the disease.

Yet the Enemedia and leftist politicians, far from correcting their mistakes, are doubling down on destructive policies. Given this, it’s time to examine how the Wuhan Flu was turned into the Wizard of Oz Virus.
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May 4, 2020 8:29am
- PhilBest
  
  Another important point I just picked up, is that “the normal flu” and other pandemics have killed a much wider cross-section of society, cutting short young lives. And yet it is a virus that takes down those who were likely to die anyway “this year”, that made us lose our collective minds?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:19am
- north island kiwi
  
  so maybe we need to ask whats the real reason for
  the lock down ?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:47am
tavita

So now we are threatened with level 3 being extended – not for medical reasons but because we have not been following level 3 rules. Naughty naughty. I am going to keep the whole class in after school until you tell me who was responsible.
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May 4, 2020 8:31am
- MrTips
  
  Pretty hard to take when he stood at the podium and would have known about the flu vaccine debacle, as well as over-stepping the mark on his initial lockdown order which he had to correct 2 weeks later.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:53am
- Justitia
  
  Indeed tavita, that kind of “reasoning” from a public health official is disgraceful. The only reason for extending this (potentially illegal) lockdown is that the Ministry of Health still hasn’t got its act together when it comes to surveillance testing and contact tracing. But hey, let’s blame the public instead.
  
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  May 4, 2020 8:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Collective punishment. Remember the bossy bitch teacher who kept the whole class in detention because 1 bully would not own up to being a prick?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:05am
Swifty

An interesting little piece from 1975 on the Common Market and featuring Enoch Powell and Michael Foot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usJUMOlpE24

Of at least as much interest, for me, is the identity of the NZer speaking quite well at around the 16:30 mark.

Who was he? Whom did he represent?
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May 4, 2020 8:31am
- krazykiwi
  
  A young Mike Moore perhaps?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:15am
  - Steve Todd
    
    A young Mike Moore!!! Surely you’re having a larf?
    
    In 1975, Mike Moore was 26, and an MP. The guy in the video is at least 50.
    
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    May 4, 2020 12:11pm
    - MCos
      
      Mike Moore looked 50 when he was born.
      
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      May 4, 2020 12:49pm
- hilaryt
  
  Is it Bob Tizard? Labour were in until end ’75…
  
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  May 4, 2020 4:15pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    No, it’s not Tizard – or, indeed, any politician from that time. I’m guessing he was a rep from Federated Farmers.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:34pm
Saks

Another step towards full government control…

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121386639/coronavirus-cabinet-approves-new-legislation-to-fasttrack-resource-consents-and-boost-economy-as-it-emerges-from-lockdown

So now if the government wants to build it they will. Lucky any new projects will be viewed by experts and an environment court judge… (sarc)

No mention whatsoever about projects needing to make sense from a financial or any other benefit perspective.

So instead of quality projects to keep nzers employed and create sound infrastructure etc we will have the pet projects these twits want to push onto us.

Footpath widening anyone?
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May 4, 2020 8:34am
- PhilBest
  
  We should actually be looking hard right now at eliminating public spending that is already steeply negative cost-benefit, not looking at increasing spending that falls into that category.
  
  Another problem though is that government has “tame experts” everywhere, so you can bet that they will have an economist who will fabricate benefit for trams, bikeways and wide footpaths, just as they have epidemiologists who fabricate deadliness of a virus, and “climate scientists” who fabricate a human causation for climate change.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:23am
  - Doc Holliday
    
    So how do these “climate scientists” persuade every scientific organisation on the planet to endorse the science?
    
    Oh I know, it’s a conspiracy!
    
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    May 4, 2020 7:24pm
seismac

I am proposing a new competion
The Great Cindy Lying Quiz
Rules
List the lies from the Great One each day up until the election
If the number is greater than the internet can handle
the best lie will be declared the winner
Great Lies
Check points are legal and always attended by police
Flu vaccines are always available at every GPs practise
The lockdown has always been legal in NZ
Cindy fully supports Ministers Clark Twyford Russell Curran
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May 4, 2020 8:35am
- freethinker
  
  I hope our host creates a lieometer on the lines of the Kiwibuild ometer to be used during election campaigning.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:07am
I remember when

The Great Wrong War WW1:
“The war for democracy was fought by an army in which soldiers were not asked their opinion, in which orders were not questioned, in which power was wielded by threat.
The chain of command was from the top down.
A soldier was like a slave in that he lost all freedom to go where he wished, when he wished. He lost all freedom to choose his own work.”
Can you imagine what that must have been like?
You wouldn’t be allowed to treat people like that NOW.
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May 4, 2020 8:36am
MrTips

Siouxsie Wiles has really gone off the deep end unfortunately. Not once, but twice , bagging Sir Peter Gluckman in tweets that don’t really seem to have much to do with him, other than he made some favourable comments in the past about Singapore.

Gluckman has obviously made some comments in the media that don’t fit with her Jacinderella narrative. Either that, or she’s pissed off that Gluckman has made Gerrard look ineffectual and nothing more than a research assistant.
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May 4, 2020 8:37am
- PhilBest
  
  My opinion of Gluckman has come up a little bit lately as he hasn’t bought every bit of alarmist BS this time around. Still nothing like strong enough though IMHO.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:24am
- Tricati
  
  The woman is just another MSM created “celebrity’ expert – The run to for a comment to suit their political narrative.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:45am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s a hair that does it–brain is minor.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:17am
Benedict Yu

https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/121391205/coronavirus-mackenzie-mayor-attacks-hotel-closures-and-tourism-job-cuts

I found this interesting. The Mount Cook Hotel is likely to shutter its doors. For obvious reasons. However those reasons are not obvious to the local mayor who goes to the press demanding they stay open.

We will see a tsunami of these reactions as the wage subsidy runs down and reality bites.
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May 4, 2020 8:41am
- JackRabbit
  
  There was a publishing error on that stuff article. It was accidentally truncated and the last two, but very relevant paragraphs were omitted.
  
  The first omitted paragraph was where said mayor had donated $100,000,000 of his own money to keep the Hermitage open and staff paid over the next 2 years, while they rebuild marketing.
  
  The second omitted paragraph was were the mayor has laid the blame for the closure on the COL and was mounting a case hold Jacinda to account and have her tried in international court for crimes against the state.
  
  /sarc
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:22am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I haven’t read today’s story, but on Friday, the hotel’s management had said the hotel would be mothballed indefinitely, with 170 out of 178 jobs going. Their best case scenario is a reopening in October. The worst case wasn’t stated, but I would guess that would be The Hermitage not reopening at all.
  
  Sadly, this isn’t isolated to The Hermitage. Job losses in the hotel sector will be significant.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How many hotels can achieve annual break-even at only 50% occupancy?
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:20am
I remember when

burt
It’s called supply and demand. I didn’t know there was a requirement for local people to able to afford everything we export.
The wealthy people over seas pay for the crayfish and this is called export income.
The fishermen of NZ pay the government for the pleasure of working in rubbish weather, in often dangerous conditions for the ability to make a living. They call them fees.
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May 4, 2020 8:43am
- Ed Snack
  
  Those with Crayfish quota very rarely “make a living”, they tend to be the sort of people who buy a new Audi RS6 (or equivalent) every year because the old one got a bit tatty after 20,000 Kms. And they don’t seem to need to get out that often either though there’s no doubt that sometimes the conditions are less than ideal.
  
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  May 4, 2020 1:40pm
Benedict Yu

So the weather here in Christchurch yesterday was warm and sunny. Lots of people went to the beach. Apparantly the police patrolled the beach and told people who were “not exercising” to go home. That makes sense.
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May 4, 2020 8:45am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Why don’t they save their efforts for stuff that actually matters and makes a difference? Widely separated people on a beach is irrelevant compared to supermarkets.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:50am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Because most police are only capable of rigidly following rules.
    
    About 10 years ago I was on SH1. I was driving between 100-107 kmh – ie sticking to the speed limit. Got caught behind a truck doing 80. Came to a passing lane. Good weather, lots of visibility. I accelerated to 125 kmh to pass the car in the available length of the passing lane, after which I planned to immediately decelerate to the speed limit. (In most New Zealand passing lanes, passing a truck doing 80 or 90 while you stick to 100, is impossible.)
    
    You have now guessed that there was a police car right behind me . He was having none of my explanation. So now I have a radar detector. Not because I habitually speed, but to avoid situations like the one I describe here.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:13am
- kowtow
  
  What makes sense .
  
  The police telling people minding their own business to go home or the police actively assisting illegally run road blocks by people who should themselves be at home.
  
  The police and gubmint have created a huge credibilty gap for themselves. ( To thinking people anyway)
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:31am
Monique Watson

Only in Davis! I went to Chevron to fill my car up. I noticed 2 cops were watching a woman over there who was smoking while filling her car up. I thought, is she stupid, crazy, or both, especially with the police standing RIGHT there?! ?.. BUT I minded my own business filled my car up and went to pay. As I was paying for my gas, I heard someone screaming!! I’m talking like somebody was killing them! I looked outside and saw that this woman’s arm was on fire!!!! She was swinging her arm, running around and going crazy!! I ran outside, the police had the woman on the ground and they were putting the fire out!! Then they put handcuffs on her and put her in the police car!! I was shocked and couldn’t believe they arrested her, surely she should be in an ambulance and not a police car?? Me being nosy like I am, asked the police why they were arresting her… He looked at me, dead serious, and said, “WAVING A FIRE ARM”!!
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May 4, 2020 8:47am
- dave_c_
  
  Indeed – “Laughter is the best medicine” – even in times like we are experiencning today.
  
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  May 4, 2020 11:29am
Lee C

Today is National Jacinda Ardern Day.

But then everyday seems to be
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May 4, 2020 8:47am
Brian McDonald

Salute to GW for this, he’s the man:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/george-w-bush-we-are-not-partisan-combatants-in-fight-against-coronavirus/ar-BB13wNpc?ocid=spartandhp
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May 4, 2020 8:48am
- Ed Snack
  
  I thought he was Hitler incarnate. He was to the left when he was in the Whitehouse, what on earth could have changed ?
  
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  May 4, 2020 1:45pm
I remember when

Hands up everyone who doesn’t think there is a political element to the lockdown.
It is now a battle to ensure people know how dangerous Covid-19 was and still is. Therefore the length of the lockdown ensures this is stressed.
A poll showing public sentiment is shifting would bring a rapid change of direction.
If that battle is lost so might the war be.
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May 4, 2020 8:52am
Critical Thinker

China lied
WHO complied
Press denied
People died
?

NZ Intelligence along with it’s Five Eyes allies, believe that the Chinese Communist Party regime went out of its way to facilitate the spread of the deadly Coronavirus pandemic, which is killing hundreds of thousands of people around the world:

– Our Five Eyes Intelligence has evidence that the naturally outpourings Coronavirus strain was accidental leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. “Confidence is high” among US intel agencies that this indeed likely.

– They found a ‘deadly denial of human-to-human transmission’ from the CCP. Right up until January 20th. The World Health Organisation followed China by denying evidence of human-to-human transmission until late January despite concerns raised by neighbouring countries’.

– The CCP started censoring search engines in December to stop any internet surfing relating to the virus. Deleted terms included “SARS variation,” “Wuhan Seafood market” and “Wuhan Unknown Pneumonia.”

– Information on asymptomatic carriers of the disease was ‘kept silent’ by the Chinese state.

– Chinese researchers whom tried to raise the alarm have been silenced or disappeared and evidence of the outbreak was destroyed.

– China has refused to hand over virus samples to develop vaccines. And ordered virus samples to be either moved to designated testing facilities or destroyed, while simultaneously issuing a “no-publication order” related to the disease.

– China heavily criticised other countries’ flight freezes while simultaneously locking down Hubei Province.

– The EU also prepared a report which blamed the pandemic on Chinese disinformation. China then threatened to end trade with several of the member nations unless they struck that language from their report. The EU complied.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/770389/china-lied-coronavirus-dossier-spy/

– Meanwhile our ridiculously corrupted NZ Press ignores this bombshell story, while incessantly running Orwellian puff pieces for Saint Cinders, and spreads pravda CCP propaganda:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/05/coronavirus-china-mocks-us-covid-19-response-in-lego-like-animation.html
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/china-reports-just-two-new-cases-covid-19-today-records-only-one-death-in-past-weeks
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May 4, 2020 8:54am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  Yes interesting that none of our media outlets have run this story when we are part of the 5 Eyes network. Collusion or did the hacks not interview the right Facebook page for their stories?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:53am
  - kowtow
    
    Our Media Party are studiously ignoring the war being fought by the CCP on the diplomatic front .
    
    Plenty of big stories here at home ,near to home in Oz and further afield about how their ambassadors and consuls are throwing their weight around , but as far as our Media Party is concerned it’s all Trump and bleach.
    
    “It’s not just coronavirus.
    
    Experts say Chinese diplomacy has gotten more assertive—and in some cases, aggressive—in the past year, especially in Europe, where China is facing competition from an increasingly antagonistic United States.”
    
    https://qz.com/1812162/china-mobilizes-against-medias-malicious-coronavirus-coverage/
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:39am
- oldfella
  
  Popular saying in Hong Kong: ‘Don’t trust China, China is asshole.’ I’ll go with that.
  
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  May 4, 2020 11:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Not reported here?
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12328811
  
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  May 4, 2020 1:38pm
Maggie Pie

The weather was sooo dreadful on Sunday that the boys decided to stay another day at the farm. Apparently the poor ducks don’t stand a chance when its like that.

Got a call from my partners mum yesterday afternoon. Suffering from ‘cabin fever’ by the sound of it. She asked if I’d be able to come over and take her out for a drive somewhere. Picked her up and we headed round the waterfront. Must be quite scary living down there with waves crashing over the sea wall. I asked her if there was anywhere in particular she’d like to go? She said she wouldn’t mind heading out to Mt Roskill to have a look at the homicide scene on May Rd, where that poor woman was killed on Friday. I told her there wouldn’t be much to see now, but she was keen to have a gawk anyway. Sure enough, other than a police car still parked at the scene, that was it. She got me to drive past a couple of times, then we went to the Countdown there to see if they had any rotisserie chickens.

We couldn’t believe the number of old cars in the supermarket carpark. The other thing we both noticed, nearly every one of them had some sort of ‘dangly-thing’ hanging off the rear vision mirror. That’s something you never see in Remmers.
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May 4, 2020 8:57am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have an old car but it has no dangling things.
  
  I don’t mind dangling things unless they are arms. What I hate is people driving along with their right arm dangling out the drivers side front window. Especially fat arms of fat bogans in singlets. (This seems to be a an exclusively male habit .)
  
  In Australia this practice is illegal.
  
  https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/the-law-on-driving-with-your-arm-outside-of-the-car-window-in-nsw/
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:46am
Belinda

I made a comment nearly a week ago on the Stuff FB page, simply stated I’d feel better if John Key was in charge of the economy, I’m still receiving abuse for it, beginning to think it’s orchestrated or else people really do believe Ardern is up there with mother Therese.
I don’t think there is enough time to change people’s opinion of her before the election.
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May 4, 2020 8:57am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Mother Teresa was a nasty piece of work – late Hitchens wrote a book about it.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:46am
  - lifesgood
    
    Hitchens…Lol.
    
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    May 4, 2020 1:10pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    She relished death and, especially, the suffering of the dying, claiming it brought them closer to her imaginary deity.
    
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    May 4, 2020 1:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Be patient. The economy within 3 months will be a visible horror story known and felt by all. Short pay then unemployed don’t make happiness. Kids on Zoom for schooling? Maybe if they’re awake.
  Re-start 21 more like. Ardern will get a backlash like an avalanche.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:26am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I have friends who are wading into dirty politics tricks online. I think it’s less coordinated and more just a realisation on their part that they can help the cause by doing so.
  
  It’s just like how they come down hard on anyone that points out the March 15 issue re Covid 19 (i.e. why we waited so long to do anything).
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:38am
  - oldfella
    
    No, no, no, no, LAR. We went hard and fast. Say it with me. Hard and fast.
    Now, don’t you feel so much better. Please put that phrase into a positive post on KB. If you chose to resist we can probably find out where you live… comrade.
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:05am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We went very soft on Mar 15 visitors–then got caught waiting. Meanwhile the PM assured the “borders were locked down” (but the visitors had all the keys.)
      
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      May 4, 2020 1:16pm
lastmanstanding

For those who werent there or have forgotten let me give you a lesson of where we are headed should the Coalition of Morons win the next election.

I will use the Muldoon Government of 75/84 and the motor industry as thats where I was working at the time.

If you wanted to buy a new vehicle you had to have a 60% deposit.

If you wanted to buy a used vehicle you needed a 50% deposit.

Finance was rationed. The finance companies were told on the first of each month how much they could lend that month against vehicles. If the allocation ran out before the end of the month tough titties.

I wont go into the other imposts like top tax rate at 66% applying at not much more than the average wage due to inflation of up to 20% with no adjustment for the tax thresholds. Nor will I go into rent controls price controls wage controls interest rate controls. And then there was Death and Gift Duty.

So to the 55% in luv with Cindy and the CoM I say be careful what you wish for.
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May 4, 2020 9:16am
- PhilBest
  
  Something that is different now, is that public sector employees are grossly overpaid. At least back in the seventies the job security correlated with an assumption that the pay wouldn’t be fantastic. Now the public sector is one of the worst leeches on the common wealth, equalling the finance sector.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:28am
- Ruahine
  
  Death and Gift Duty are likely to be coming back after September.
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:38am
  - kowtow
    
    Class war with a vengeance , comrade.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:49am
- old skool reactionary
  
  Well be don’t have a car industry here anymore or much of anything else manufacturing wise thanks to “free markets”.
  
  But we do have mega amounts of $US denominated private debt thanks to cheap credit that allows immigrant “skillsl shortage list” uber drivers and dish hands to leverage into a property portfolio and “live the Kiwi dream!”.
  
  What’s not to love about Globalism?
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    We do have a manufacturing sector.
    
    https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/f0f81b6194/new-zealand-manufacturing-sector-report-2018.pdf
    
    Yes it is a smaller share of the economy than 30 years ago. If that had not occurred we would be a much poorer country. No we do not make cars any longer. But we do make boats, medical equipment, processed foods…
    
    https://www.stats.govt.nz/experimental/which-industries-contributed-to-new-zealands-gdp
    
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    May 4, 2020 9:58am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The NZ Dollar was not floating then and we had international speculators placing bets on devaluation. Also we had the Arbitration Court making compulsory wage orders. That put pressure on prices and the spending put pressure on foreign exchange demands–NZ came close to not be able to import basic food.
  The Arabs had socked us by tripling the price demanded for oil. Muldoon was in the middle and he did manage to contain the wage/price spiral. No one liked it. We got a variety of projects to make us more independent for the future.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:35am
kevn

@lastman… Indeed. But there is a whole wave of voters who weren’t even born in that era.
Wouldn’t have a clue about ‘economy killing’ processes like we are seeing now.
Talk to any recently opened small business who has had a visit from WorkSafe. Play their silly game or we will shut you down.
Socialism on a roll now.
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May 4, 2020 9:30am
Benedict Yu

Every cloud has a silver lining 🙂

Zoom Video Communications Inc
NASDAQ: ZM

Stock price has doubled since January.

https://tinyurl.com/y7npn3pm

BTW last night I decided to buy a web camera and a microphone to upgrade from the crappy inbuilt ones on my laptop. LOL. Unless you want to spend crazy money there is not a webcam or mic available in New Zealand. If anyone finds one let me know 🙂
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May 4, 2020 9:31am
- Ultima
  
  You can use your iPhone or Android phone as a webcam. Better quality video and cheaper as well.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:12am
chukar

And 20% plus interest rates
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May 4, 2020 9:36am
- old skool reactionary
  
  Yes, now we have 0% interest rates!
  
  We are so so lucky!
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:46am
UrbanNeocolonialist

This will surprise no-one. Recent fertilizer factory opening appearance by the evil Un, wasn’t:
https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1256715157037813760
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May 4, 2020 9:42am
- Inandout
  
  UN, I have watched videos of Kim’s latest ‘appearances’ and buggered if I can tell the difference. Because there is no time recording on the videos it could have been taken any time, but I did notice that his chain smoking was shown more than it used to be. As an aside, and to show how brainwashed the citizens are, they actually believe that because Kim is a god he does not have bodily functions like toilet visits.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:50am
david

How can she be under pressure? We are in the middle of a global crisis on two fronts – health and economic and the “system” from the top ( Prime Minister) to the bottom ( virus testing) takes the weekends off.
No press conferences and updates from the Government, a pattern repeated now for at least the last 3 weekends including Easter and ANZAC weekends.
It should be renamed the Mike Hosking virus – all sound and fury Monday to Friday, invisible on the I for one am heartily sick of being told how to live by a bunch of 9 to 5 eras.
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May 4, 2020 9:44am
tf78

Great show on Magic talk this morning – tune in, I recommend it. Simon Bridges is on in a minute.
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May 4, 2020 9:45am
old skool reactionary

Herald had article this morning about the district that had the worst breaches of lockdown. Anyone want to take a guess?

South Auckland, lol.
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May 4, 2020 9:47am
- Inandout
  
  osr, also a strong Labour voting base.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:52am
  - dave_c_
    
    Don’t worry – there will no repurcusions and be no prosecution of such valuable voters !
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:10am
RW Capitalist

There will be a massive economic divide between:
Republican states and Democrat states
about 75% of covid deaths are in Democrat states, about 55% of the pop. are in Republican states.
Republican states (largely) have opened over the weekend.
The reason I make this comparison is:
NZ is still closed, for at least another week.
The rest of the world, is opening up and has been more open than us.
Without our businesses open, we are on our way to meet the 3rd world.
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May 4, 2020 9:47am
I remember when

From The Gisborne Herald
Call for Tairawhiti to leave Lockdown.
Chamber of Commerce President and MP Anne Tolley both want the district back at work.
Mayor Rehette Stoltz is more cautious citing health and safety of residents.
She said: “The Prime Minister made it clear that once we are at Level 2, they might consider region-wide approaches.
The PM said she may consider a regional approach in future”
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May 4, 2020 9:49am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Actually, when we went into Level 4 Jacinda the liar said they’r consider regional approaches if appropriate. There are 9 regions that should never have been in level 4 and should have skipped Level 3 to Level 2 once they’d come out of Level 4. Tairawhiti is one of them. Wanganui, Taranaki and MidCentral are others.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:42am
  - niggly
    
    Don’t forget the Chatham Islands are also still locked down …. which seems absurd as presumably passenger flights to and from there ceased weeks ago, and they have had zero cases in the first place!
    
    Madness Labour, Jacinda, Robbo & Clark … just madness!
    
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    May 4, 2020 12:46pm
    - niggly
      
      Those poor buggers!
      
      “An early release from lockdown for New Zealand’s most remote and sparsely-populated islands appears unlikely, despite being free of coronavirus.
      
      Authorities on the Chatham Islands, which had considered the idea of an early exit, have been told to observe the same four-week period as the mainland.”
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120943762/coronavirus-early-exit-from-covid19-lockdown-off-the-table-for-island-dwellers
      
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      May 4, 2020 12:55pm
RW Capitalist

Jacinda:
You said 75% of the economy is open (AM Show today)
Show me….which businesses?
LIAR
Every shopping mall is closed
Most take aways are closed (more than 50%)
Most if not nearly all high st. businesses are closed
There are for lease signs going up on commercial properties.
Many B to B businesses are still closed.
Even essential businesses are on reduced output (at least 50%).
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May 4, 2020 9:52am
- cmm
  
  She’s basing it on them earlier saying they are “at least partially operating”.
  
  If the businesses website or voice mail is operating, then the business is “partially operating”, even if the doors are shut and they cannot sell any goods and services.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:01am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    My business is deemed “essential”
    I was speaking to one of my customers (also essential)….he told me tat 7 of his friends, had already handed to keys back to the landlord…that was 2 weeks ago. I wonder what the actual numbers are.
    
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    May 4, 2020 10:08am
- LTA1955
  
  We probably won’t have to wait too long – you should have heard Winston wheezing like a fucked set of old bagpipes tonight on Jack Twats Queens & Aholes Love In. Hope Cinders is watching!
  
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  May 4, 2020 9:53pm
cmm

Stuff says Moore is right: there’s too much greenwashing.

Putting aside the whole Green Party being greenwashing, he does have a point. Most of the “Green Tech” is bullshit that is only there to scam subsidies and make people feel good.

The article then goes on in a very foot-stompy way to say we need more real Green Innovation.

Sorry dude, the limiting factor for Green Innovation is not really will (beside the fact that nobody wants to go back to a Middle Ages lifestyle – deathstyle would be more accurate).

No, the problem limiting Green Tech is mostly the laws of physics. Wanting cannot fix that.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/121343812/michael-moore-has-a-point-and-we-need-green-innovation
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May 4, 2020 9:55am
- alloytoo
  
  It’s increasingly obvious that the green movement do not want practical proven solutions.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:11am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “……mostly the laws of physics.”
  As we currently understand them…..
  I am sure in about 100yrs, we may understand them better and find new things.
  BUT that is not now, and we don’t have the answers, using current tech.
  Solar is limited by the way we “collect” it.
  and our knowledge of it.
  Wind is limited by mechanics
  same a wave etc
  The funny thing is, the most effective renewable is hydro.
  We use gravity to to drive turbines, using mechanics.
  See above limiting factors. We still don’t understand gravity, except that two bodies with mass have it with respect to each other.
  Maybe we are crying out for the “Unifying theory”
  Before we can take the next step?
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:15am
  - cmm
    
    The laws of physics, as they matter to Green Tech, are pretty much the same as they have been for the last 150+ years.
    
    While photovoltaics and various materials do rely on new physics (semiconductors etc), there is no escaping the basics of energy: you can’t make it out of nothing.
    
    Of course there is always a chance that we will discover something we do not know about now. For example, radio waves were only discovered in 1887 although they had been mathematically predicted in 1867.
    
    “We still don’t understand gravity”. We don’t need to understand stuff fully to use it. We only need to understand it sufficiently to use it.
    
    Ultimately we do not fully understand any physics and we never will – there is always going to be another layer of “why does X do that?” underneath.
    
    Even if there is a Grand Unifying Theory there is still a question as to why things are that way and if there are ways to escape that.
    
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    May 4, 2020 11:47am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Hydro is good stuff. If only we had a bit more available.
    
    The cancelled one on the West Coast was something like 20 or 30 Mw. NZ total use is some thousands of MW. I know every little helps but there aren’t any more Benmores, Manapouris or Waikatos waiting in the wings. Not to mention the problem that over time they tend to silt up ….
    
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    May 4, 2020 5:33pm
LetMeOut

In the data in https://ourworldindata.org, when you plot the deaths per million per day after it reaches 0.1 on a logarithmic scale, most countries have a peak and deaths start to decline after about 20 to 30 days regardless of what type of controls were implemented. This suggests the lockdowns have no major effect and the main cause of the decline is the number of infections and the initiation of the herd immunity process. So the curves for Sweden and Italy are the same even though Italy had many more deaths (and very different responses). Will NZs curve with 20 deaths and ~1600 infections be the same or, since we had the strictest lockdown, have we just delayed the pandemic here? I predict another wave in a month or two. The most vulnerable are the elderly and those with co-morbidities. What steps are the government taking to protect them? If they have failed to do so, all this economic pain and sacrifice will be for nought. This failure despite buying 6-7 weeks from the Lockdown may be their greatest strategic mistake.
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May 4, 2020 9:57am
- cmm
  
  It is interesting to look at a place like Australia where different states have different policies. The areas that had the toughest lockdowns (eg. Tasmania) ended up with the highest death rates.
  
  It is clearly not very convincing that lockdowns save lives, whatever “saves lives” actually means.
  
  Since the Grim Reaper visits in flu season we can expect that is when the most people get killed.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:07am
Tricati

Why is Behrous Boochani still in NZ – Isn’t a 1 month visa, a 1 month visa, or have I missed something.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/415744/national-wants-answers-about-kurdish-refugee-behrouz-boochani
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May 4, 2020 10:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good question to ask Golriz Ghahraman next time she starts spouting her nonsense
  
  16 1
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  May 4, 2020 10:34am
  - Swifty
    
    I know it’s wrong of me to assume in the absence of evidence – but until I see information clearly demonstrating otherwise I will continue to believe that this man’s arrival here and continued presence has been arranged and abetted by NZ Green Party politicians.
    
    The staged photo ops with him on arrival were highly dubious and where, may I ask, were their open calls for him to honour his visa and our laws and get on a plane?
    
    Ms Ghahraman swore to uphold our laws upon becoming an MP. Has she fulfilled that oath in this case?
    
    Surely she will not have conspired to break our laws, and breach her oath, for a publicity stunt?
    
    16 1
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    May 4, 2020 11:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She’s a flaky greenie
      
      10 1
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      May 4, 2020 12:35pm
    - Paulus
      
      You don’t mean the Greens are Haters & Wreckers too!
      Didn’t Helen Clark say so.
      
      3 1
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      May 4, 2020 2:23pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      That’s the story running in the Guardian
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/new-zealand-denies-behrouz-boochani-benefited-from-politicised-process-in-asylum-bid
      
      2 1
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      May 4, 2020 4:18pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  It is believed Behrouz Boochani has applied for asylum.
  
  Under New Zealand law, ministers & officials cannot discuss any details of individual claims, or even confirm if an application has been made.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:42pm
tedbear

“Environment Minister David Parker said new legislation was expected to be passed in June to allow for faster Resource Management Act (RMA) consenting of development and infrastructure projects, in response to the damage the coronavirus pandemic was having on the economy. ”

Listen up Comrade Parker.
20 (mostly elderly) people who died with a type19 flu had no effect whatsoever on people unable to open their businesses and move freely.
The damage to the economy was caused pure and simple by your Govt’s Police State measures.
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May 4, 2020 10:04am
greenfinger

#JacindaArdern’sLockdownDecimatesNZRetail
#JacindaArdern’sLockdowmSpikesNZUnemployment
#JacindaArdernLiedAboutFluVaccineShortage
#JacindaArdernIllegallyLockdownNZ
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May 4, 2020 10:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  #Jacindaarderncausespovertyinnz
  #jacindaardernabiggerliarthanhelenclark
  #economicdistructionbyyetanotherlabourgovt
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:20am
alloytoo

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/pandemic-plan-doesn-t-mention-shutting-borders/ar-BB13xG5R?ocid=msedgntp

Something interesting.

I maintain a Billion dollar cheque to the Hospitality industry could have made border quarantine work in a very short period.

Cheap at the price.
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May 4, 2020 10:07am
- Ruahine
  
  Coalition of Morons claimed that could not be done.
  Lying again.
  Where there is a will there is a way.
  
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  May 4, 2020 12:58pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Well they couldn’t figure out how to do it, but then they can’t figure out most things.
    
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    May 4, 2020 4:45pm
I remember when

Kyodo News:
Japan will allow the reopening of parks, museums and libraries and some other public facilities, even in areas with a relatively high number of coronavirus infections a senior government official said on Sunday.
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May 4, 2020 10:14am
Paulus

We ordered and paid for an upgraded TV (Smart) from a major retail company but now told cannot be delivered and set up because we are over 70 years of age.
Have to wait for ???? until she says so.
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May 4, 2020 10:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Citizens are of all ages. They cannot discriminate on age.
  They announced a few weeks back such measures but have noticeably backtracked–they forgot basic rights, our PM is not the brightest chook in the farmyard.
  
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  May 4, 2020 10:41am
- Inandout
  
  Paulus, withdraw your order and try another retailer.
  
  10 1
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  May 4, 2020 10:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why tell them your age? Order from someone else, fuck them
  
  12 2
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  May 4, 2020 11:18am
Manolo

What will China say?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/pompeo-says-enormous-evidence-virus-came-from-wuhan-lab/ar-BB13xAE2

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Sunday that there was “enormous evidence” that the coronavirus pandemic originated in a laboratory in Wuhan, China.

“There is enormous evidence that this is where it began,” he said on ABC’s “This Week.”

But while highly critical of China’s handling of the matter, Pompeo declined to say whether he thought the virus had been intentionally released.
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May 4, 2020 10:30am
- cmm
  
  Deliberate or gross negligence, either way bad, bad, bad…
  
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  May 4, 2020 11:55am
Bill Felt

“The leaking of these numbers shows beyond a shadow of doubt how Machiavellian this lot are. This about their vote. Their winning a second term. Nothing about you or me or our wellbeing. They are playing us like a fiddle. This is political. Please if you haven’t already, wake up to it!”

Hosking 4 May 2020
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May 4, 2020 10:34am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Gawd, he is desperate.
  
  2 36
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  May 4, 2020 10:55am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Of course he is. Because he’s right.
    Anyone with a brain can see that Labour have been playing this for political gain right from the start.
    Or are you one of those completely insane people that believes that Labour didn’t hold off our reaction until after March 15th (despite eventually caving on the 14th) so that they could have their hug fest?
    
    23 1
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    May 4, 2020 11:27am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    As are your lot.
    
    6 1
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    May 4, 2020 1:21pm
Manolo

This Labour government will not stop until a large number of SMEs found themselves bankrupt. PM Ardern is determined to break the NZ economy, while telling us she is our saviour!
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May 4, 2020 10:36am
- dave_c_
  
  We’re from the government and are here to help !
  
  6 2
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  May 4, 2020 11:02am
  - chukar
    
    The most frightening thing we could hear?
    Ronald Reagan
    
    3 3
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    May 4, 2020 12:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A certain French King sorta tried that too and look at the bucket of trouble that got him and his followers into.
  
  4 1
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  May 4, 2020 1:35pm
  - david
    
    I hear that tumblrill construction is an approved lockdown hobby.
    
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    May 4, 2020 3:39pm
greenfinger

We know negative headlines are great clickbaits. So, here’s an idea for our NZH and Stuff spies in this forum. Along side with the super duper low number of new coronavirus cases, why don’t your papers tally up and start printing the daily number of jobs lost to the Jacinda’s lockdown. Just a thought?

#NZJobLostToLockdown
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May 4, 2020 10:53am
- [email protected]
  
  I have seen articles in the media bemoaning job losses, some of the companies are being demonized for letting staff go.
  
  After the wage subsidy stops the job losses are very likely to accelerate.
  
  Perhaps this blog could add a lockdown job loss counter similar to the lockdown cost counter.
  
  11 1
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  May 4, 2020 11:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The losses are hidden by the subsidies at present. When full pay hits again so will the losses.
    
    5 1
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    May 4, 2020 1:33pm
dave_c_

SO ! Explain to me, why if we have been ignoring social distancing rules (throughout Levels 4 & 3) there are absolutely NO cases caused by this behaviour.
You would think that if there had, our PTPM would be lecturing us and crowing from the beehive roof-top that she had told us it would happen.
What an arrogant/dangerous know it all he is.
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May 4, 2020 10:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The rest of the World has been told covid 19 has been ‘eliminated’ by PTPM.
  She is now an epidemiologist you know, and Hosking is not!
  
  16 3
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  May 4, 2020 11:15am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Get it right. She has the benefit of having a bunch of experts consulting with her, including epidimiologists, and Hosking plucks opinions out of his rectum.
    
    1 6
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    May 4, 2020 2:45pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      If you think Hosking does NOT have access to a bunch of experts, similar to the PM.
      Then you dont understand the media system.
      
      His producer would call them all individually to confirm things, then suck them into a discussion. They know that if they say NO COMMENT. Then this will be used on air.
      
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      May 4, 2020 10:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Alcohol is the glue holding this shitshow together
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May 4, 2020 11:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  OK, alcohol will not cure your problems, but then again, neither will milk
  
  6 2
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  May 4, 2020 11:09am
Maggie Pie

My partner tweets

“NZ right now…”
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXHwL15VAAETDr1?format=jpg&name=small
17 1
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May 4, 2020 11:11am
- JibberJabber
  
  Deborah Russell, “if you go broke (due to the Govts fuckwittery )it`s your own damned fault”.
  
  Kinda paraphrased, but you get the gist.
  
  17 2
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  May 4, 2020 11:24am
  - Swifty
    
    That’s what Martin Williams and R reckon.
    
    If you can’t survive just a few weeks of pesky lockdown then your business was running inefficiently and deserve to go under.
    
    Your business was not viable to begin with.
    
    Just goes to show you the willful ignorance, and nastiness, of many on the left. They seem happy to burn the village in order to save it.
    
    19 3
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    May 4, 2020 12:41pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They don’t run their own businesses but are parasites on others. They send in their unionist bully boys to exact their fees .
      
      11 1
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      May 4, 2020 1:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    She’s lucky to have a job–I was appalled by her inabilities shown in her maiden speech. Academic tax expert? Not by my standards.
    
    12 1
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    May 4, 2020 1:31pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Very true
  
  5 1
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  May 4, 2020 12:43pm
JibberJabber

Ohhh, look more anecdata….
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/melbournes-teen-suicides-surge-during-states-coronavirus-lockdown/news-story/053cf03699958e5e383240fa2c5f4033?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_source=HeraldSun

Teenage suicides have surged during the coronavirus lockdown, sparking calls for Victorian schools to fully reopen to save lives.
5 1
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May 4, 2020 11:21am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Sad for the families of these poor people. Utterly irrelevant to the situation in New Zealand right now. The mental health foundation has commented today that there is no rise in suicides in New Zealand.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:47pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Mental Health Foundation doesn’t know whether there has been a rise in suicides or not during our lockdown since the data haven’t been collated yet.
    
    A death is not declared a suicide in New Zealand until a coroner has ruled it is one. Statistics are published annually.
    
    Director of Health Ashley Bloomfield said the Ministry of Health would study all-causes of mortality throughout the lockdown to see whether there was an increase in deaths not directly-related to Covid-19.
    
    “We haven’t looked yet, but that’s something we will want to look at—all causes of mortality during the period
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300003381/coronavirus-mental-health-foundation-and-police-push-back-on-suicide-spike-rumour-says-there-is-no-evidence-rate-has-increased
    
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    May 4, 2020 4:30pm
greybeard

The most feared words in NZ today:
“Minister of Transport Phil Twyford”.
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May 4, 2020 11:25am
- Swifty
  
  Shudder.
  
  7 1
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  May 4, 2020 12:41pm
greenfinger

Ardern, her adoring fan club and cheerleading squad can stay in her waiting room all day everyday for the rest of the year, we are leaving ours come Monday.

#LockdownProtestersStormNZParliament
20 1
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May 4, 2020 11:48am
- jv
  
  Communications 101 fail – dopey smarmy response to Duncan Garner
  
  14 2
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  May 4, 2020 12:46pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  It’s your right to protest. Try not to catch anything icky while you’re out and about. I’d like to get back to normality sooner rather than later and overseas experience would suggest large gatherings of people are perfect places for infections to spread.
  
  1 9
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  May 4, 2020 2:48pm
  - greenfinger
    
    You mean like, the gathering at schools?
    
    5 1
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    May 4, 2020 3:09pm
Stu2

Stuff has an article on where Britain went wrong

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/300003719/coronavirus-biggest-failure-in-a-generation-where-did-britain-go-wrong

I hadn’t realised you could fly into Britain from Spain or China for instance, well after those borders should have been closed

In March they still had half their usual number of international visitors. Early action makes a huge difference, or in their case early inaction

And like the USA their early testing program was hopeless.
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May 4, 2020 12:27pm
- rangitoto
  
  NZ’s early testing programme was equally hopeless if not more so.
  
  5 1
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  May 4, 2020 1:56pm
  - MCos
    
    Maybe, but the UK’s testing programme remains fairly feeble; behind even the US, way behind us, but way ahead of Sweden.
    
    Last I heard travelers were flooding into the country unimpeded by quarantines or similar . . . .
    
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    May 4, 2020 3:43pm
oldfella

Remember when Cindy came to power and proclaimed that climate change was this generations nuclear-free moment?
Wonder if she still thinks that?
19 2
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May 4, 2020 12:33pm
Maggie Pie

If ‘Coronavirus’ was a person 🙁

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXIGxK6XYAAFUrB?format=jpg&name=small
9 2
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May 4, 2020 12:45pm
- graham
  
  Wow. You have to wonder just what she’s been sucking, swallowing, huffing, snorting …
  
  8 1
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  May 4, 2020 1:24pm
Illegally Imprisoned in Cindy's Jail

I read somewhere about a certain Meghan and a Harry. Is he her bodyguard?

Does anyone remember them???
7 1
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May 4, 2020 12:49pm
- MCos
  
  I think they’d be quite happy if you forgot about them entirely, which doesn’t seem likely apparently.
  
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  May 4, 2020 3:33pm
Illegally Imprisoned in Cindy's Jail

Memo to self: Good time to watch re-runs of Porridge.
5 1
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May 4, 2020 12:51pm
gump

You say it’s your right to protest, but you get angry when Kaepernick takes a knee.
You say your body is your own, but you get angry at a woman who demands the same.
You are against abortion saying every life is precious, yet you are willing to sacrifice your parents and grandparents for the economy.
You claim coronavirus is fake, yet you wear a mask, gown, and gloves.
You say healthcare is a privilege, but want your covid-19 hospitalization covered.
You say socialism is bad, yet your hand is out for a stimulus check, unemployment benefits, and you wait in line at a food bank.

What you say confuses me.
Forgive me if I no longer care what you say.

–Author unknown
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May 4, 2020 1:06pm
- Illegally Imprisoned in Cindy's Jail
  
  Bloody awful author. Was it a certain ‘Suzie’? Cough.
  
  7 2
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  May 4, 2020 1:29pm
- BananaLlama
  
  You get angry at those who protest against Kapernick but say you should have the right to protest.
  You say your body is your own, but you get angry at a man who demands the same.
  You are for abortion saying you have rights over a unborn child, yet you are willing to sacrifice the public by letting violent criminals go free.
  You criticise those who wear a mask, gown, and gloves while claiming they say the corona virus is fake.
  You criticise those who want their healthcare costs covered while claiming they say healthcare is a privilege.
  You criticise those who ask the government and society for help, yet you say they are against socialism.
  
  What you say confuses me.
  Forgive me if I no longer care what you say.
  
  0 2
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  May 4, 2020 4:45pm
Maggie Pie

WOW! Did i just hear Ashley Bloomfield say that the number recovered from Covid-19 now exceed the number of probable and confirmed cases?
13 2
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May 4, 2020 1:09pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Sigh… I guess you missed the explanation of why that is. A lot of people who came back from overseas brought the coronavirus with them. But they’d been tested overseas, so the country they were tested in “claims” them as a case. However, because they came here we “claim” them as a recovery.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:50pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thank’s Simon! I knew there had to be a Simple answer 😛
    
    7 0
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    May 4, 2020 3:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

No PTPM on today’s propaganda message. Heat must have got to her, called out on hers lies too often?
17 2
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May 4, 2020 1:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Freeview TV guide had the propaganda message down for 1 hour today. Now reduced to 30 min. Was it wrong? Or did someone chicken out?
  
  5 1
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  May 4, 2020 1:32pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Cabinet is meeting today. The PM will do her normal post-Cabinet presser at 4pm. Hopefully, someone will ask her tough questions.
  
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  May 4, 2020 1:50pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘someone will ask her tough questions’
    
    Bwa ha ha haaaa.
    
    7 1
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    May 4, 2020 2:26pm
- chaos
  
  She’s on now
  
  1 0
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  May 4, 2020 4:17pm
lifesgood

A couple of people have quoted Jacinda with Duncan Garner this morning but they seem to have left out the worst of her nasty remarks and I quote them here verbatim after Duncan suggested that international experts said we could be in this mess for months This is exactly what she said ” I didn’t realise you were an epidemiologist, Duncan. Congratulations on your new qualifications Duncan” That is disgusting!
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May 4, 2020 1:18pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  The irony of course is that the academic who did all of the (spectacularly wrong) modeling that the Govt used for justification was a Physicist and the “expert” Jacinda keeps quoting is a microbiologist academic. Neither of these people are epidemiologists and unlike Garner have been pushing their own expertise rather than quoting actual experts.
  The stupidity of Ardern is astounding.
  
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  May 4, 2020 1:37pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Hopefully Garner will have seen that as a win. When she starts playing the man, you know she’s on the ropes. Clearly doesn’t like being interviewed by Garner.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:32pm
Tomtoddy

Becoming more and more apparent that there has been a multitude of cock ups over testing and PPE availability.
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May 4, 2020 1:20pm
Tauhei Notts

I saw this editorial on the Stuff site 67 days ago.
……………….
Act leader David Seymour took point-scoring a step further when he demanded that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern return immediately from a three day visit to Fiji to deal with a worsening coronavirus crisis. That is glib over-reaction by Seymour, as is the claim that “the New Zealand economy is at a tipping point.” Seymour’s outburst can be attributed to a desperate need to be involved in political events.
……………………
Our country’s main stream media have proven themselves to be reprehensible and unscrupulous individuals of the lowest order.
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May 4, 2020 1:24pm
- Swifty
  
  That is damning of the Stuff editorial team.
  
  Will they post an article saying how wrong they were?
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:03pm
fernglas

Does anybody else believe the PM when she says we are back to 75% of pre-shutdown productivity? She says that her figures are from Treasury, but in fact they are based on month old projections which were nothing more, even according to Treasury, than stabs in the dark. How much longer do these people think they need to soft pedal this thing? They risk one hell of a backlash when reality strikes.
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May 4, 2020 1:27pm
- Swifty
  
  75%? Really?
  
  With all tourism, events, sport, hotels, motels and other accomodation, internal travel, person to person (dentists, hairdressers, doctors, nails, tattoos, etc etc), malls and all related businesses closed or dormant?
  
  A quick run to my local shops today shows maybe 1 in 10 open for business.
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:50pm
- chaos
  
  Going through town and the industrial area, I’d say about 10% of our local economy is up and running. And those that are haven’t got anywhere near the businesses they used to have
  
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  May 4, 2020 3:43pm
Maggie Pie

I do remember seeing one of these in Auckland’s Wintergarden Pavillion but forget what it’s called. Can anyone fill me in?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXF-S2mXgAAIi-C?format=png&name=small
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May 4, 2020 1:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It’s called a David Clark
  
  8 3
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  May 4, 2020 1:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s the penis passionfruit; giant granadilla.
  Passiflora quadrangularis cv. Erotica
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:20pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thanks for that Mags! Thought you might recognize it 😀
    (Although my partner said he’d go with Steve) .
    
    4 2
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    May 4, 2020 2:38pm
    - chaos
      
      You’re partner wants to go with Steve? I guess that explains the tranny out at the pool now.
      
      2 0
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      May 4, 2020 3:41pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So ‘Dr Passionfruit’ it is
    
    3 1
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    May 4, 2020 3:22pm
Alex13

The announcement is that zero new COVID-19 cases have been identified over the last 24 hours. Has anyone seen the number of tests performed during that period published?
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May 4, 2020 1:55pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  2473 tests.
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/no-new-cases
  
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  May 4, 2020 2:22pm
Fletch

Really great live version of Whiter Shade of Pale. I think the guy’s voice is even better now – older and more affecting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6jyEFe5WM
8 1
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May 4, 2020 1:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Brooker at his best in my opinion. This was in Denmark
  
  6 1
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  May 4, 2020 2:11pm
greenfinger

Ok, Ardern. ZERO NEW COVID19 CASES. You got want you wanted for your CV. You win! Take your victory lap, uncock that champagne and send that bcc email out to the world. Now, can Bloomfield and you get on with level 2.9 or are you waiting for 600,000 NEW CASES OF UNEMPLOYMENT IN NZ?!
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May 4, 2020 2:42pm
BananaLlama

PM Getting shitty now that her decision making processes and legality of the governments actions are being questioned. I hope this provides a big wake up call for the news journalists in our country, that the only role she sees for them are as propagandists that write puff pieces for her and her government and that power is not to be questioned.
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May 4, 2020 2:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We have news journalists in NZ? I thought we only had shitheads who can link to BBC, and CNN.
  Not much NZ news on play school TV1 or TV3
  
  4 2
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  May 4, 2020 3:25pm
greenfinger

Such a laugh! Parker can fast track the RMA process all he wants. There are a thousand reasons why the private sector won’t be bidding for many construction projects. For one, there won’t be many that would survive beyond this Ardern shut down. Those that manage to carry on won’t be able to get any of their staff to go back to work as they choose to enjoy their government-funded holiday. Very hard for any business to compete against “a job offer from the government that comes with 52 weeks annual leave”.
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May 4, 2020 3:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The ‘supply’ has dried up.
  Have you tried to order the usual monthly 5 tonne of steel?
  That is just the start. This fucking Government needs arse kicking real bad
  
  7 4
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  May 4, 2020 3:28pm
MrTips

Brook Sabin asks a relevant and important question: where’s Kelvin, Minister of Tourism and what is he doing to help the sector?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/121397294/where-is-our-tourism-minister-when-we-need-him-the-most
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May 4, 2020 3:16pm
- PaulP
  
  He’s helping by being hidden away.
  
  Imagine the disaster if he actually tried to help. He’s just not smart enough to be a minister.
  
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  May 4, 2020 5:43pm
Fletch

SO I finally watched that new documentary Planet of the Humans that everyone is talking about and that the greens are protesting about. Hosking talked about it on his show this morning as well. Friggin SHOCKING. What I took away – there is no such thing as “renewable energy”. It’s all powered, one way or another, by fossil fuel and natural gas. Those solar panels? Made of quartz which you have to throw in with tons of coal to get the temperature high enough. The whole industry is a sham. As one person in the documentary says, you may as well just burn the coal for energy, rather than using the party trick pretending that renewables are better. It would be more honest.

And people are making big money off of this, like Al Gore and the Koch brothers. And this is not to mention “biomass” which is really another term for cutting down and burning trees. That’s all it is.

Disgusting. It is free to view online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE
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May 4, 2020 3:29pm
- Komata
  
  Fletch@1529
  
  The obvious question arising: WHY has Michael Moore, one time darling of the anti-western, pro-climate cange luvvies, suddenly changed his tune, and ( a supplementary), who had paid him to do this?
  
  Leopards like Moore NEVER change their spots unless under very-severe inducement (and even then only very, very, reluctantly), so…?
  
  Followng the money might lead down some ‘interesting’ rabbit holes…
  
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  May 4, 2020 4:57pm
  - Fletch
    
    Well, it’s not Moore’s film. He was the executive producer and backed it, but it’s his long time collaborator Jeff Gibbs, who wrote, directed and produced it. Other than that, I don’t know. I don’t usually like Michael Moore or his films. He is also rabidly anti-Trump. I did get a lot out of the film, but I didn’t like its undercurrent, hinting at population control. It seemed to be suggesting that the only way we could save the planet was by having less people – limiting how many of us there are.
    
    But yeh, watching that bit about the trees, all I could think of was that part of Lord of the Rings with Saruman cutting down all the trees to power his evil machines and the Ents fighting back.
    
    2 1
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    May 4, 2020 6:23pm
    - cmm
      
      Considering his girth, Moore is clearly consuming more than his share. Perhaps he’ll give up his place on the planet for 6 Somalis?
      
      Or maybe he only wants others to sacrifice?
      
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      May 4, 2020 8:57pm
david

Do you hear the people sing
Singing the songs of angry men
……..
An anthem for our times?
3 2
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May 4, 2020 3:42pm
secondcumming

Does anybody know of a person in this country who has reportedly died of *Covid-19* that didn’t have an underlying medical condition, or was already in God’s Waiting Room?
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May 4, 2020 3:53pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  I’d also like to know what happened with anyone who had the so called lethal comorbities. Hardly anyone got admitted to hospital. Surely some of the 1500 NZ cases had asthma/high blood pressure/diabetes etc.
  
  With regards to the move to level 2 would like to hope that Ardern doesn’t use the ‘too many people transgressing card’ if it is in actual fact that the health department is out of control with their contact tracing system.
  
  6 1
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  May 4, 2020 4:53pm
  - Poppa
    
    Well the fact is unless you are over 80 with dementia or similar your chance of dying from this is about the same as a plane crash happening in NZ
    
    People are becoming angry
    
    8 2
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    May 4, 2020 5:36pm
chaos

* Dr. Anthony Fauci is an adviser to President Donald Trump and something of an American folk hero for his steady, calm leadership during the pandemic crisis. At least one poll shows that Americans trust Fauci more than Trump on the coronavirus pandemic—and few scientists are portrayed on TV by Brad Pitt.

But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.

In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some gain-of-function work. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million.*

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741
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May 4, 2020 4:20pm

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