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September 22, 2020 7:38pm by David Farrar

Debate Thread

Use this thread for comments on who you think is winning the debate, and comments after the debate on how it went.

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Comment132

NZ Politics
debate

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1st debate thread
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Comments (132)

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Flossie

Judith is streets ahead at this point.
John’s doing okay.
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September 22, 2020 7:40pm
- bartybart
  
  John was good
  
  19 4
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  September 22, 2020 8:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wish John Campbell would just ask a question and shut up with the gabble.
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September 22, 2020 7:43pm
- Cinematic
  
  John Campbell’s number one fan is John Campbell. John can’t get enough of John. Please Maggy, show some empathy.
  
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  September 22, 2020 7:50pm
  - kingerstinger
    
    He’s absolutely hating this analysis that started with how well Judith did.
    
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    September 22, 2020 8:31pm
- Unity
  
  And the posturing. He never keeps still and over-dramatises his speech.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:52pm
bruceavon

I am biased but Judith is winning so far. Ardern keeps going on rubbish detours.
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September 22, 2020 7:43pm
wimpston peeeders

good to see john cambell putting a little pressure on jacinda (not lots but it did throw cindy a tad)

judiths facials when jacinda talks crap is priceless!

Jacinda is doin large amounts of explaining… explaining is losing. judith has won both rounds but not by alot and certainly no knock out blows, whats happened to judith shes not the fearsome woman she was in the key era.
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September 22, 2020 7:43pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  Focus groups have probably told her to soften a bit to win key votes. Our kond host probably knows more 😉
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:49pm
Happychappy

Yes but as as you know John Campbell thinks it’s all about him. Has Jacinda let the cat out of the bag that Climate change will be one of her and Labours main policy for the next term.
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September 22, 2020 7:46pm
- Unity
  
  She sounded like a Greenie. Obviously she has bought into their nonsense.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:53pm
  - stephen2d
    
    It’s to eat the vote for the greens. That’s the only reason. Going by their previous achievements though, I expect the climate to worsen dramatically under Labour, just like anything else they touch. ?
    
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    September 22, 2020 11:02pm
  - Tricati
    
    And her comment re dairy farming should be really alarming to NZer’s – Its the primary sector that going to pull NZ out of this financial mess and she is sticking the boot in already.
    
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    September 23, 2020 7:29am
Im Right

It’s the John Campbell show…didn’t you know?
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September 22, 2020 7:46pm
niggly

Wow Jacinda is looking rather flat so far.

Judith is appearing confident, answering well and is positively shining compared to Ardern, who at times is struggling 🙂
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September 22, 2020 7:47pm
- Flossie
  
  Jacinda doesn’t think the bell applies when she’s talking.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:05pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Shes probably dosent know how to use a watch. maybe a working group idea?
    
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    September 22, 2020 8:25pm
KiWombat

Neither ahead for me.

What really irks me though, is the habit developing that all solutions to issues can be solved quite simply by throwing a bucketful of money at it.

Tony Ryall proved that this was not necessary to improve outcomes – we are now in desperate need of people of his calibre.
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September 22, 2020 7:47pm
- Ultima
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yes, i am a fan a Crusher but this is not the right time for her. She’s good at specifics that suits her, but not the overall narrative. Cindy is playing the “trust me” card and she comes across quite well even though the materials are quite thin. Thats my observation.
  
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  September 22, 2020 7:53pm
  - Mike22240
    
    You were downvoted to hell but unfortunately your unpopular opinion is right overall.
    
    2 18
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    September 22, 2020 9:01pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Tony Ryall proved that health outcomes could only be improved if you were wealthy enough to afford private medical insurance as he gutted the public health sector to enrich Nationals mates in the private medical operators.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:09pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    What a load of shit.
    
    34 2
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    September 22, 2020 9:03pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Tony Ryall was the most competent Minister of Health in living memory.
    
    34 1
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    September 22, 2020 9:24pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Cindy can’t tell the difference between Japan and China even when she just flew there. Obvious she knows Jack Shyte about anything of importance.
    
    She want’s to get rid of businesses and farming so there will be little left of NZ. What’s she going to do – boost tourism by having foreigners come over and watch school kids eat free sandwiches?
    
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    September 22, 2020 11:33pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I think Judy wiped the floor with little Cindy.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:34pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    wouldnt go that far but judith certainly won, next debate will be one to watch and fingers crossed cindy loses another 5% that day too.
    
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    September 22, 2020 8:43pm
All_on_Red

I’m not watching and won’t.
But as to Judith’s strategy I’d recommend plain talking of simple facts- as it’s hard to defend a nonexistent record.
Ardern will wilt if that blow torch is applied

Was I right?
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September 22, 2020 7:48pm
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Yes.
  
  Jacinda is toast 🙂
  
  44 3
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  September 22, 2020 7:57pm
- geoff3012
  
  Yes…Cindy fucking terrible..
  
  33 2
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  September 22, 2020 8:13pm
  - Unity
    
    It’s certainly excruciating to watch Jacinda. Judith looks Prime Minister material whereas Jacinda looks scrawny and in need of a good tidy-up.
    
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    September 22, 2020 9:57pm
iamkingi

Whenever they got asked about CGT, Housing, Jobs….they both had no answers. Not feeling inspired, it’s all negative. Can’t buy a house, can’t get a job, can’t go overseas, can’t start a business…..both parties are just 2 degrees of separation away.
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September 22, 2020 7:54pm
- Cobolt24
  
  Judith got housing, RMA reform freeing up land, she didn’t really expand beyond that.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:35pm
piglady

I don’t comment on this site much but watching this debate as cringeworthy as it is… this comes to mind…
Is the pope a catholic?
Is Cindy a socialist Marxist
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September 22, 2020 8:03pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  cindy will get 200 working groups onto it, in 2years when its complete she’ll have an answer she wont tell and a great plan she wont implement.
  
  can save ya the time and expense the answer is yea and YES
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:13pm
  - sooty
    
    Yes, but by the time they report back, she would have left for the UN!
    
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    September 22, 2020 9:43pm
all true

National Party or Labour Party, none of them have actually any substance. It is just a senseless word diarrhoea, painful to watch these two women.
By end of the day only David Seymour has some functional brains in between his ears.
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September 22, 2020 8:03pm
peterwn

Staging is terrible. The ‘general’ shot shows John large in the foreground, Jacinda in the middle background and Judith way out yonder. Almost like Peter Jackson’s trick photography in Lord of the Rings.
Jacinda is talking about all the things Labour plan to do, it would be more convincing if she was able to point to more solid things Labour had done during the last three years.
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September 22, 2020 8:03pm
- Happychappy
  
  Jacinda keeps using the word I, but I didn’t think the word team had the letter I in it.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:16pm
  - rouppe
    
    No, but it has an “M” and an “E”
    
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    September 22, 2020 8:26pm
  - Flossie
    
    It actually is all about her though. Take her out of the Labour party and what would the rest of the sorry bunch be polling…. 20%?
    
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    September 22, 2020 8:27pm
Mike61

Can we cut of Miss Ardern’s hands please. They are sooooo annoying.
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September 22, 2020 8:06pm
- RJ
  
  But if you mute her and try work out what she is saying by her hand movements it is far more entertaining.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:18pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  they flap around when judith state facts or logic, its just a typical leftard response
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:23pm
- Lance
  
  Maybe Jacinda thought she had to do the sign language bit as well?
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:37pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Doing a lot of pleading gesticulation. Weird.
  
  St Cindy of the Pestilence!
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:43pm
Fisiani

Judith easily ahead. Ardern is floundering.
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September 22, 2020 8:07pm
Hugh Jarse

What’s double judy ?, Jacinta said it a couple of times
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September 22, 2020 8:10pm
- Kate
  
  I’ve googled it, still no clue.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:34pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  It’s when you set up a fund to give people shedloads of cash, then you have to hire more people to administer the handouts.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:52pm
- Piniwi
  
  Right HJ it seems to be another gem from her spin team to counter criticism of most shovel ready infrastructure projects. The ones that have little or no tangible benefits. A cynic might well only see them as short term work schemes. Lol
  
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  September 22, 2020 10:25pm
- emmess
  
  More like fifty times
  
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  September 22, 2020 10:36pm
- Centrist
  
  She said “double duty” but it still makes no sense – trying to claim what they will do will achieve 2 things I think.
  
  Hopefully that debate has brought the polling closer and moved a few undecideds into the blue camp.
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:51pm
- Raphael
  
  double jeopardy? we can’t try Our Glorious Leader for the same crime twice?
  
  perhaps she means we can’t accuse her of repeatedly making the same mistakes.
  
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  September 23, 2020 7:55am
Humble Capitalist

Today we have no new cases of Jacinda Ardern answering a question. Thats brings our total number of cases to zero.
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September 22, 2020 8:11pm
- Kate
  
  I have been reading this blog for about 10 years, this is my first ever reply. Your comment has made my day, nearly spat my Pinot across the room.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:29pm
  - Mike22240
    
    It was gold wasn’t it!
    
    17 1
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    September 22, 2020 9:12pm
- Saks
  
  This comment wins the internet.
  
  Funniest thing i have heard since the kindy teacher forced her way onto our screens daily in March
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:37pm
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  comment of the day – gold !!!!
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:27pm
skyblue

Crushed
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September 22, 2020 8:11pm
kingerstinger

Surely the quote of the night has to be JA trying to say 1950s State Houses were “good builds”!!
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September 22, 2020 8:12pm
- rouppe
  
  I thought it was her saying what a great job they’d done on child poverty. My jaw dropped
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:25pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Poverdy!
    
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    September 22, 2020 10:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I didn’t know that Judith was a State House girl… sure showed up Ardern’s lack of knowledge of basic working-class NZ.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:32pm
  - Jack5
    
    State house girl? Her parents were dairy farmers in the Waikato.
    
    Maybe they lived in a township and worked the farm.
    
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    September 22, 2020 9:03pm
    - Flossie
      
      I don’t think she said an actual state house, just a house of that style. I also grew up in one that looked very like post war state houses but my parents built it.
      
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      September 22, 2020 9:28pm
    - Lance
      
      Read her book if you have a chance, these situations are not mutually exclusive.
      
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      September 22, 2020 10:39pm
- bruceavon
  
  No. That was the only thing Judith got wrong. Old state houses are good, ask any builder. There’s a reason real estate agents always put it in the ads. Especially compared to building since the 90’s.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:41pm
  - Lance
    
    Solid but drafty, shit joinery, no insulation and poor infrastructure. Can be done up and made to look nice after a lot of work.
    
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    September 22, 2020 10:38pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    They were OK in their day, and they have OK bones. But no insulation, no double glazing, no carpets, and supply your own drapes. Sometimes no laundry or laundry ventilation either.
    
    They were. and are, sheds with people in. Nothing more, and nothing less. better built sheds than 1990s Mediterranean style homes, but sheds nevertheless. Have you all forgotten so soon how bloody cold they are, unless you have endless firewood and heaters on?
    
    Well built for “sub-tropical NZ…… Bwuhahahaha!
    
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    September 22, 2020 10:59pm
  - Jaywalk
    
    That’s because they usually are on large sections and make great do-er ups or removal and rebuild with better use of the land, they are the damp, cold, uninsulated ones they complain about. Where they are two story units they are badly designed, with a steep, narrow stair case.
    
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    September 22, 2020 11:45pm
- Toko
  
  What about the gobsmacking “ dairy farming is a world of the past”? I think it’s time Labour just admitted they hate business and assimilate the Greens into their party. Good luck with the country’s tax revenue once all the agri-producers have given up under the ever increasing tide of anti-farming climate change bullshit from the left.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Ye Gads..

In case you can’t think for yourself… there’s going to be a panel of talking heads to explain just what the 2 Js said!!!!!
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September 22, 2020 8:13pm
- RJ
  
  Well Barry Soper won’t be there, hope his operation went well
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:22pm
  - rockape
    
    What is he having his head removed from Winston’s arse?
    
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    September 22, 2020 9:12pm
Hugh Jarse

Sorry that should have been Jacinda
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September 22, 2020 8:18pm
BeeJay

Arden sounds like a whiny girl
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September 22, 2020 8:18pm
Ceejay

I hope Judith is happy to increase her property portfolio cos she’s owning Jacinda right now.
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September 22, 2020 8:19pm
Humble Capitalist

It was about time somebody hit Ardern that 5000 state houses were planned under the previous government. The ones that Ardern is taking credit for under her ‘nine years of…..’
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September 22, 2020 8:21pm
- Happychappy
  
  And her lies on Child Poverty, Bill English achieved more in his short time than Jacinda has achieved in three years and it pisses me off that the media let her get away with blatant lies.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:42pm
Ultima

I didn’t see Cindy smiled once, the acting classes have worked a treat. Crusher got better towards the end and smiling. I’d vote for a smile.
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September 22, 2020 8:22pm
SmokerGuy

Judith did ok but that Ardern is a slippery operator. Campbell let her talk and talk all day long. Pretty poor performance by him I have to say.
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September 22, 2020 8:23pm
- Unity
  
  He did an awful lot of talking himself. He really is a pain.
  
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  September 22, 2020 10:02pm
rouppe

Surprisingly I think John Campbell has done pretty well.

In terms of the head to head, Judith has done pretty well. Jacinda Ardern has shown the value of her communications degree.

Judith Collins has got in several pretty good hits and for those that care, Jacinda’s tilty head concern-ey face was irritatingly evident
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September 22, 2020 8:23pm
- David Garrett
  
  rouppe: Yep, credit where it’s due, Campbell was much better than I thought he’d be…mind you, I was told today there was a Floor Manager who had the power to shut him down at any point if he was too obviously favouring “his” side…Don’t know if that’s correct or not.
  
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  September 22, 2020 8:42pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Nah, there was far too much explaining, emoting and podium mounting. Its not supposed to be the moderators show. He nearly lost control in the second segment too.
    
    PS, whats with all the happy diverse families in the ads – do all skinny white girls want to marry a fat brown boy these days, who knew?
    
    The bank ads were tremendously uplifting too – they must be shitting bricks.
    
    This is the first time I have watched terrestrial TV since the last debates, it was really noticeable.
    
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    September 22, 2020 11:03pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You could make a case that Campbell talked too much, but I thought overall he was fair and even-handed.
    
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    September 22, 2020 11:03pm
Openmindfulness

Bring back Simon Bridges.
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September 22, 2020 8:24pm
bruceavon

Even if I try to be impartial I think Judith won. Not sure it will make any difference though and change votes. It wasn’t a slam dunk. Ardern seemed like she read the poll and couldn’t care less.
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September 22, 2020 8:30pm
- rouppe
  
  Perhaps more “no need to scare the horses” than “couldn’t care less”.
  
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  September 23, 2020 6:40am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Amazing that the poll came out right then, almost as if it was to counter any National momentum. Why do they have to try so hard?
  
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  September 23, 2020 10:22am
C J Southern

I haven’t seen it (and won’t be either), but I think most have missed the point; this isn’t a “debate that pits one against another in a neutral environment” – the media these days don’t provide news – they’re entertainment organisations.

With that frame of reference it’s important to remember that they will do whatever it takes to deliver the entertainment that their customers want; they’re NOT interested in providing an impartial platform for a fair fight – Labour supporters aren’t going to buy maximum product (ratings) if their favourite “team leader” is getting pummeled any more than someone wants to see the against-the-odds hometown down-under cute kid get their ass whipped.

With great power comes great responsibility. The media have great power and they abuse it constantly by favouring their own commercial self-interest over integrity & fairness every single time.
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September 22, 2020 8:34pm
David Garrett

Well, the debate is over…and Mutch-McKay and the pommy political scientist both agree that Collins won on points…Ardern looked like the somewhat out of her depth girl that she is.
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September 22, 2020 8:37pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  As did Mutch McKay, I thought.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:55pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Mutch-McKay was still being a Jacinda apologist saying how tiring campaigning can be and that could explain the lack lustre.
  
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  September 23, 2020 10:27am
rockape

Judith managed to get a few points in on Labour’s failures, electric cars,poverty @nd Kiwibuild. That and more needs repeating. The PM said “ judge m3 on my. Record” so let’s do this because the record compared to the promises falls short. We have seen that on an earlier post on this blog today. Close but points win for Judith.
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September 22, 2020 8:39pm
lastmanstanding

Jessica and the Pollie Scientist from Ak Uni both called it for Judith and said Cindy lost it.

Cindy is not looking good. IMHO the wheels are about to come off the trolley. Forget the TVOne poll.

Theres 14% undecided PLUS the shy Tory vote. And the Greens at 6% wont make it. Most of the kids have come back from overseas so factored into their 6%.

Shaw the Davison are both looking down in the mouth. They know Chloe is toast in Ak Central Helen White has that wrapped up.

Its a long shot for Judith but if she campaigns well and wins the next 2 debates like tonight the gap could close down fast.

It aint over til the fat lady sings as the saying goes.
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September 22, 2020 8:42pm
- yossarian
  
  As an anti-Sir Cullen Sidekick (I do love the guy tho) idea, the poll, although static for National showed momentum moving away from Labour.
  
  And politics is all about momentum. Notwithstanding, this may have been the first time many swing voters had even heard Judith speak. Jacinda has monopolised the airways for the last six months, there’s a chance that the swing voter is starting to get sick of her. I have heard rumblings from left voters (especially in Auckland) that they’ve getting tired of being talked to like they’re stupid, from someone who come across as a kindergarten teacher
  
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  September 23, 2020 5:25am
Ele Ludemann

Judith was making the point that farmers were appreciated and respected when she was growing up on a dairy farm when Jacinda interrupted to say “that’s in the past”, completely missing the point that the lack of appreciation and support now is due in no small part to her government’s policies.
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September 22, 2020 8:44pm
- lifesgood
  
  What a disgusting remark from Cindy. I hope no NZ farmer votes for her. I am not and never have been a farmer but I am very proud of our farming heritage and community.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:39pm
- ronsegal
  
  Could have been put much more strongly – Farming families with mental health problems due to Labour piling on the costs and inciting anti farmer sentiments.
  Couldn’t believe the cheek of Ardern’s ‘working with farmers’ meaningless platitudes. Yet so many gullible fools out there still believe the crap that comes out of her mouth.
  
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  September 22, 2020 9:59pm
Captain Mainwaring

The [del. mod.], seaweed-haired, shouty-voiced one was all over the place with platitudes and bullshit whereas the shortish blonde one was calm and restrained and seemed to make a lot of sense.
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September 22, 2020 8:59pm
Brian Marshall

I can’t stand listening to Campbell, and barely tolerated 30 seconds of Seabiscuit when I turned it over to TV1 before I had to turn the TV off. I already know which way I’m voting this election, but it’s good to see that Judith done well by the comments posted here. I gave the current government 3 months after the last election before I started calling them the worst government ever, and nothing since then has come close to making me change my mind.
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September 22, 2020 9:19pm
wineman

I tell you what though….Jacinda needs a good feed of steak,egg and chips.
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September 22, 2020 9:27pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Around here any woman thats that scrawny sickly and rundown are crackheads, they only have 20% of the teeth cindy has tho.
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:11pm
- yossarian
  
  The lighting did her no favours either
  
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  September 23, 2020 5:28am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Too much fish?
  
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  September 23, 2020 10:32am
Maggie Pie

My partner thought it was all a bit flaccid.
Reckons next time they should put both girls in bikinis and let them go for it in a pool of Jello.

😛
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September 22, 2020 9:37pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  tbh I dont know what one id dislike to see in a bikini most.
  
  7 1
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  September 22, 2020 10:13pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Campbell, and thank goodness he was flaccid.
    
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    September 23, 2020 10:33am
- JackRabbit
  
  Your partner might be in for a shock!
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:26pm
gorse

Stuff, Ardern lost, but Collins didn’t win. Can you believe that?
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September 22, 2020 9:42pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  so Covid was the winner on the night? Or Stuff is bleeding out and desperately needs that lovely, lovely “responsible journalism” infusion?
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:06pm
WaveyDavey

Could we just have a moderator whose ego doesn’t get in the way please
14 1
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September 22, 2020 9:48pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You mean a Professional broadcaster?
  
  Sorry, they’re extinct in NZ.
  
  15 1
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  September 22, 2020 10:59pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Only because Mike!Mike!Mike! doesn’t give a toss any more.
    
    2 1
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    September 22, 2020 11:07pm
niggly

Lol – Jacinda “I don’t need a tax cut”.

Sweetie, you are on half-a-million dollars/year … of course you don’t need a tax cut because even if you did you will still have enough “lazy” dollar bills floating around to fill a swimming pool!
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September 22, 2020 9:49pm
Tasman Terror

Ardern was embarrassing. Once she is away from the protection of Speaker Mallard and the media luvvies we see her for what she is, namely vacuous and insincere. Sadly those are her best qualidies.
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September 22, 2020 9:50pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Selfies are easy.
  
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  September 23, 2020 10:36am
Thought Criminal

Stuff says Taxinda lost.

The Horrid has their opinion behind the paywall so they must think the same!!
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September 22, 2020 10:06pm
Loddenthinks

This from $1uffed: “Ardern lost, but Collins didn’t win it” a non-sequitur if ever I read one.

Then admitting Collins had done better of the two, said “It’s not clear many voters would have changed their mind as a result of this lacklustre debate, dominated by Breakfast host John Campbell.” a statement with which I agree.

Then they had a clip of Ardern only – no semblance of balance, just 6 minutes of Ardern getting a platform. She called the journalists by name.

She called Maiki Sherman “Maika” not cool Jacinda.
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September 22, 2020 10:20pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  also in there was a comment along the lines of 1st debate is the incumbants to lose, good old stuffed brushing it off nothing to see her move it on.
  
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  September 22, 2020 10:52pm
Tomtoddy

JC 7.5
JA 5.5
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September 22, 2020 10:23pm
beadgame

18% versus 54%…..
Good to see John point out that National’s tax cut policy does not makes sense. JC did not have a good response for this.
And Judith acknowledged RMA is to blame for housing problems, not Labour. RMA that Key could have fixed if he had tried – “The conclusion is unavoidable that RMA reform didn’t happen mainly because Key didn’t want it badly enough to use all his formidable powers of persuasion to make it happen.” https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12366988
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September 22, 2020 10:36pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  their tax policy makes sense, the more you work/earn the more you get to keep, they will create more jobs and get bums of couches and earn more so they can keep more.
  
  cindy on the other hand wants to make more ppl unemployed with more holidays wages and burdens on employers and at the same time want to increase the payments to keep them at home on the couch. o yea and more tax to those that get ahead in life
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:06pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The RMA reform didn’t happen because of Peter Dunne and the Maori Party. But Collins is going one step further, repealing the RMA and replacing it with two fit for purpose Bills which she has spent the better part of three years preparing.
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:07pm
  - JJ56
    
    Just to remind, it also didn’t get reformed by the Nats because Labour didn’t support reform.
    
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    September 23, 2020 8:22am
Maggy Wassilieff

So pumped Hydro is going to save us all.

You’re dreaming, Jacinda
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September 22, 2020 10:39pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  I cracked up at that as to combat climate change shes guna get serious about renewables that rely on the climate.
  
  she claims the onslow project would make power cheaper, it will not as to make a profit water is pumped with cheap power then released at a later time when prices are high. Gentailers dont generate more at high prices to make power cheaper they do it to make mega profit.
  
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  September 22, 2020 10:59pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  That and the Unicorn farts!
  
  Cindy discovers perpetual motion machine – more at 6pm!
  
  While pumping hydro can technically be made to work, nobody yet knows if it is actually feasible, or cost-effective.
  
  It seems that between the cost of pumping, and the losses from evaporation, it is a net negative.
  
  In any case why is moving from the best renewable country on the planet to super good, but bankrupt, a winning plan?
  
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  September 22, 2020 11:10pm
  - JJ56
    
    We in fact know in this situation (dry year support) it isn’t cost effective or necessary.
    
    2 0
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    September 23, 2020 8:24am
  - cmm
    
    I worked for 2 years in the South African electrical supplier, Eskom, back in the days when they were world leaders.
    
    The group I was in were in charge of software for generation planning and part of that was modelling and planning how to use South Africa’s pump storage effectively.
    
    PS is basically a hydro dam with a reversible turbine: run it backwards and it pumps water back into the hydro lake, using it like a big battery.
    
    PS is particularly good at flattening out rapid changes in electrical load and making those into base load. For that reason, it is most often linked to some generation source that likes to run long and hard. eg. Coal and nuke stations.
    
    There is quite a lot of power loss in the pumping then re-generation – the whole process is only around 70% efficient.
    
    PS is good for that, but is, generally, not so good for long term storage because lakes tend to leak and dry winds evaporate the water leading to increased losses.
    
    We already have large hydro so those can already provide the high speed changes to accommodate changing loads. PS doesn’t really seem worth it in NZ.
    
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    September 23, 2020 9:32am
rouppe

When where and what time to watch minor party debate?
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September 23, 2020 6:49am

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