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December 14, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 December 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

This morning RNZ described the words “Islam is Right about Women”, chalked on the footpath outside Al Noor mosque as Hate Speech™

I’m assuming the author used a particular hateful, insulting chalk colour, because the congratulatory message would otherwise have been lauded – surely?
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December 14, 2020 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is a confusing statement.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:05am
- Yvette
  
  Winchester, Mass. — A slew of controversial signs posted across one local town has been drawing more confusion than outrage.
  In Winchester, signs that read “Islam was RIGHT about women” has residents scratching their heads to figure out exactly what the poster meant by those words.
  While offensive to some, police said that, while it’s technically illegal to post anything on a street sign, it’s a tough law to enforce. Due to freedom of speech and because the signs in question aren’t threatening, police say it’s like posting a sign about a lost cat.
  “What is the intent behind it and what are we trying to prove by putting it on this pole so ambiguously,” said Shakeelur Rahman, the Imam of the Islamic Center of Burlington. “There is not a lot of clarity in it. I hope the person was trying to encourage people to look it up maybe or research it.” [1]
  
  Is the Christchurch chalked message a simple copy-cat incident? (Sorry, to cats)
  And at what point does “confused speech” become “hate speech”?
  
  Even despite its vast diversity, international Islam seems to differ in some respects to that of the New Zealand community, probably much to the confusion and annoyance of Brian Tamaki.
  While the Call to Islamic Worship, which last year was broadcast nationwide on State television as a part of commemorative Christchurch ceremonies, quite clearly expresses the exclusivity of Allah, the proceedings included karakia or Maori religion and even some Christian references which seemed acceptable, although the Koran in places seems to specifically condemn them. (And therein another problem: … many Māori would have had their hackles raised at the mere prospect of state interference in what many consider to be primarily a cultural, rather than a religious, practice)
  
  In New Zealand, Islamic women do appear to be equal to the men, and in the case of the release of their Royal Commission submission about 146 days ahead of the Federation of Islamic Associations.
  
  Here, it is Islamic women, who are self-identitied by wearing the hijab and who will suffer a certain amount of reaction to what happens in France and elsewhere overseas. (as asserted in the portion of the Royal Commission Report which the Islamic women’s group had already released early)
  
  Reputedly, Andrew Little plans to legislate in this area but there needs to be answers to some questions, a basic one being “Is the political religion of Islam – that would aim at “domestic separatism” in France, acting through dozens of off-shore funded Islamic institutions – the same Islam religion as has members wearing hijab on New Zealand buses and in New Zealand streets and communities, and suffer the reflection of opinions formed from valid (or not) international news reported here?”
  
  How difficult will Andrew Little’s job be in framing all this in simple “hate speech” legislation?
  Is “Islam is Right about Women” hate speech, while one assumes “Is Islam Right about Women?” is not?
  Also to be considered is the regard, or lack of it, for other religions – Christ’s name is frequently blasphemed now on “Shortland Street”
  
  [1] https://www.boston25news.com/news/-islam-is-right-about-women-odd-signs-spark-confusion-in-local-town/987837653/
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:12am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Christ’s name is frequently blasphemed now on “Shortland Street” ‘
    
    Will our Media party / NGOs / various quasi gubmint commissioners call TVNZ out on that ?
    
    They’d be very quick if the shoe was on the other foot .
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:34am
  - Kevin Herlihy
    
    The statement is essentially disingenuous, designed intentionally to insult women. The choice of location for the message is also deliberate, the intention being to incite animosity.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:56am
    - Ruahine
      
      Jesus was right about women also. Maori are also right about women. I know.
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:35am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I’m intrigued by your bold assertions about the intention and design of this message.
      
      And you know this how, precisely?
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:14pm
  - giltee
    
    As the Islamic number if people increase in New Zealand so will the level of extremism as witnessed everywhere in Europe and or indeed most of the world.
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:53am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  It’s a despicable tactic of right wing hate groups according to the good academic – all about using double negatives and being unduly positive etc., to confuse the woke left…
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:18am
  - Swifty
    
    Heh
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:18am
    - Observer of Life
      
      Why is this even news? Get a hose people!!!
      
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      December 14, 2020 11:01am
      - Sacha
        
        My thought too when I heard the report.
        
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        December 14, 2020 8:34pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    It’s also a despicable tactic of left wing groups using double negatives and being unduly positive etc., to confuse the public…
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The statement by the interviewed police officer shows the challenge of administering hate speech laws.
  
  “”We take any messaging that has any concern to it extremely seriously and a report has been completed and that has been assigned to an investigator,” he said.”
  
  So who needs to be “concerned”? And on what basis?
  
  Let’s say I wake up one morning and someone has chalked on my driveway “Give Taiwan back to China”… I would be somewhat “concerned”. Who wrote it? Why? Why me? Now let’s say I went to the police and ask them to investigate. I tell them I am concerned. Police would either laugh at me or stare at me blankly.
  
  As I have commented previously, people that actually incite hatred and violence should be dealt to. But there are many out there who will use hate speech laws to express outrage and demand action. This would not be a problem if we could rely on Police to distinguish between genuinely concerning behavior and people legitimately expressing a view. Unfortunately I don’t think many police officers have the ability to do that.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:24am
  - SGA
    
    Yes and no, Benedict. If you were President of the “Keep Taiwan Free Society”, say, you might contact the police if you were worried this might be the opening stanza of a more serious campaign.
    
    (btw, I wouldn’t count this as hate speech either).
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:19am
  - Observer of Life
    
    What a total waste of Police time and effort.
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It looks like this slogan is something that has appeared sporadically in the USA. So far nobody has figured out what it means beyond its literal meaning. Unless they can interview the person who wrote it, I don’t think the New Zealand police will figure it out either.
  
  https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/volokh/2019/09/21/islam-is-right-about-women/?amp
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:32am
- Mike
  
  Well, I guess that’s one interpretation of the message. I can think of others.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:33am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I heard that this morning and thought I might have a hearing problem. I must have heard that wrongly. Thank you for confirming that my hearing is okay.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:36am
- amospicton
  
  Yes it’d be interesting to see how this could be interpreted as ‘hate speech’ without impugning Islam.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:38am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    If you say “You were right about Fred.” Most people will interpret that as having a negative meaning about Fred.
    Therefore, I imagine most people would interpret the phrase “Islam is right about women” as having an anti-female nuance.
    
    Any phrase with the structure “_______ is right about ___x____” could be interpreted as being anti-x.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:05am
    - hmmokrightitis
      
      Sorry, I dont agree. The vast majority, I suspect, would (a) wonder who the fuck Fred is and (b) wonder what he Fred had said/done/not done/believed in/not believed in etc etc.
      
      We are now seeing the continued rise of speech I don’t agree with (or am at least confused by or that I wouldn’t use) being labeled hate speech.
      
      And if you ask RNZ why the insisted on calling it hate speech, they could not tell you.
      
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      December 14, 2020 9:32am
    - Ehlana
      
      It could be a negative statement about Fred. But it could also be a positive one, e.g., “You were right about Fred – we couldn’t have managed without him”.
      Without further information it would not seem safe to draw a conclusion.
      
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      December 14, 2020 11:03am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Was it that Fred was too sexy for his shirt?
        
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        December 14, 2020 11:41am
      - Sacha
        
        Context matters.
        
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        December 14, 2020 8:36pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Why on earth does it follow that most people would interpret “You were right about Fred” as saying something negative about Fred?
      
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      December 14, 2020 11:49am
- MCos
  
  There was a discussion about this message on the RNZ I listened to that agreed it was obviously not hate speech as it stood.
  On the other hand it’s most certainly not supportive of Islam either.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018777048/police-guard-al-noor-mosque-after-graffiti-message-left-outside
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:52am
  - Exclamation Mark
    
    So what if it isn’t supportive of Islam?
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:05am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Well, clearly the perpetrator would be guilty of a despicable hate crime, be shot through the head and asked to leave the country.
      
      /sarc
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:19pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    “On the other hand it’s most certainly not supportive of Islam either.” Does it have to be? Why should believing in god mean that your groups ideas on society are protected from scrutiny ?
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:46am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Was it near the separate women’s entrance?
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:18am
- mark15
  
  Just wait till someone says ‘it’s ok to be white!’
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:23am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Why? Because it is alright to be white but, someone will complain that it is raaaacist!
    
    I’m going for a coffee . . .
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:44am
    - Ruahine
      
      Will that be a flat white PG?
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:37am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        V good, made me smile but a James LeBron 😁
        
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        December 14, 2020 1:41pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Lauren Southern used to wear such a t-shirt and we saw what happened to her and Molyneux…
    
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    December 14, 2020 12:22pm
- PaulDunmore
  
  It is a very clever meme, because the instant reaction from almost any nonbeliever reading “Islam is right about women” is “No it isn’t”.
  So on its face the statement is supportive of Islam, and not hate speech at all; but it is calculated to induce thoughtcrime in people who see it.
  So who should be prosecuted: the author, or the reader?
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:39am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly.
    
    It’s criticizing Islam without criticizing Islam.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:53am
    - James Stephenson
      
      The intent of the statement is twofold, it’s pointing out the double-standards of the woke left who like to complain about “the patriarchy”, whilst simultaneously calling any criticism of Islam “hate speech” and it’s also highlighting the fundamental incompatibility of Islam with Western values.
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:06pm
- NoFax
  
  The phrase “Islam is right about women” is similar to a Zen aphorism. It is meant to cause confusion. The “RNZ” type don’t know how to handle this statement as on the one hand they know that women don’t have much value or rights in Islamic countries. But on the other hand Islam is the religion of peace (unlike nasty Christianity). So either a person must maintain his or her cognitive dissonance or accept that Islam is wrong on something. Further they must accept that critique of this religion is allowed despite their intersectional oppression matrix.
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:16am
  - Ruahine
    
    RNZ and other NZ Media outlets thinking they are the ‘authority’ in interpreting a very clever piece of language.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:40am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Agree. It’s designed to create an intellectual double bind.
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:32am
- Fletch
  
  Maybe it is to make people think about how Islam actually treats women. Whether it is the speech that is offensive or the way they are treated.
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:08am
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  I am also concerned about the hate speech used by Greta Thumberg and her comments about NZ and climate change.
  
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  December 14, 2020 1:09pm
mikenmildagain

Happy Monkey Day!
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December 14, 2020 8:03am
- ldypen
  
  Obviously a racist statement here.. what about apes!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:06am
  - Don Beckett
    
    It’s OK – MM is just greeting his family. 😆
    
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    December 14, 2020 12:03pm
- flash2846
  
  That’s racist!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:09am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    And speciesist…
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:42am
artemisia

So today we may hear that Fletchers is (gladly) out of the weeping sore of Ihumatao. And Fletchers have quite coincidentally announced a plan to build a huge urban village in west Auckland. A village nobody except Fletchers seems to like at all.

Quite the coincidence.
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December 14, 2020 8:05am
- sooty
  
  If I give you this and you let me build that, we’ll call it quits!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:32am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Plus $55,000,000.00 newly printed notes . . .
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:45am
- Nickc2
  
  A land swap huh? Who owned the land given to Fletchers? It wouldn’t happen to be the Auckland council would it?
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:04am
Happychappy

KK you have to remember unless it has something nice about Jacinda and Labour it will always be called a hate message , and you have to realize that woman are just there for Labours sexual enjoyment whether it’s consented or not.
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December 14, 2020 8:08am
artemisia

A whole lot of Massey professors are not happy about proposed restructure. And job losses.
According to the Herald item today they are concerned about loss of research and innovation, uni reputation and staff wellbeing.

I get staff are angry, upset and want to protect their jobs. However, there’s this thing called ECON101. Nowhere near enough students enrolling, and a little matter of a projected deficit of $18.1m a year.

Who do the professors think should be stumping up for that? I think we can make a wild-ass guess.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/71-massey-professors-hit-out-over-controversial-science-shake-up/QFMKVCY7QS5G2VPAE32BCQDVJA/
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December 14, 2020 8:08am
- Blackbob
  
  Except the university is keeping all the social science courses and only chopping the STEM based subjects – the stuff we need more of is getting cut vs the gender studies bone wearing stuff.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:10am
  - artemisia
    
    STEM students have other uni options. And looks like they are not heading to Massey anyway. Maybe potential STEM students have figured Massey out.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:26am
  - Pharmachick
    
    Ask the UK how it worked out for them when they started closing chemistry departments wholesale in the 00s…
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:27am
    - artemisia
      
      That doesn’t seem to be happening here though. It is one uni that can’t attract enough STEM students for all courses to be viable.
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:10am
      - hullkiwi
        
        But the original purpose of Massey was STEM for the agricultural sector. It was only in the 1970s when Massey went off into social sciences etc.
        
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        December 14, 2020 10:34am
      - Pharmachick
        
        @artemesia its the principle that I was talking about. Cutting STEM but not social sciences, then finding out in the UKs case, that CHEM is utterly required for a huge range of industries and having to deal with the subsequently self-inflicted skills shortage. (nice bit of alliteration there, even if I do say so myself).
        
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        December 14, 2020 1:18pm
  - Bob
    
    It is much easier to achieve high pass rates for social science degrees, than with real science degrees.
    I mean we as a country have hundreds of misemployed/unemployed engineers, maths and science graduates in NZ, obvious shortage of social engineers though.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:49am
- Loddenthinks
  
  They can’t possibly be concerned about a dent to their reputation in terms of attracting students – it’s about as low as it could be after their recent bouts of ant-free speech wokeness, lies and obfuscation.
  
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  December 14, 2020 12:28pm
KevO'Brien

A message of hope–
Dr. Lively explains why the fight to save the republic is not over, despite the Supreme Court striking down the Texas lawsuit. He is both a constitutional lawyer and pastor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-D1IevXyu0
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December 14, 2020 8:09am
- Mattb
  
  So he’s suggesting Trump declare martial law and invoke the insurrection act. Good luck with that delusion.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:26am
- Mike
  
  Scott Lively is an extreme crank. No surprises that one of Kiwiblog’s leading cranks finds him credible.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:31am
- Lance
  
  So are you saying this is a holy crusade against the forces of evil?
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:34am
- fernglas
  
  Is it this Dr (?) Lively?
  “Scott Douglas Lively (born December 14, 1957) is an American activist, author, and attorney, who is the president of Abiding Truth Ministries, an anti-gay hate group based in Temecula, California. He was also a cofounder of Latvia-based hate group Watchmen on the Walls, state director of the California branch of the American Family Association, and a spokesman for the Oregon Citizens Alliance. He unsuccessfully attempted to be elected as the governor of Massachusetts in both 2014 and 2018.”
  
  Sounds eminently qualified to comment on the election.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Author of The Pink Swastika, which claims homosexuals established the Nazi Party…
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:21am
    - softail 1450
      
      MMA,The night of the long knives cleaned out a large number of gay Hitler supporters,FACT.
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:53am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That some Nazi homosexuals were murdered by other Nazis does not mean that the Nazi Party was a homosexual organisation.
        
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        December 14, 2020 1:26pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Trumpy – 90 million Twitter followers.
  
  Sleepy Ol’ Joe – 18 million.
  
  What does that tell you?
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:53am
  - SGA
    
    As I’ve said before, it tells me that P.T. Barnum was right.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:04am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That there are many, many fuckwits on Twitter?
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:21am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      slightly more than New Zealand voters I would guess . . .
      
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      December 14, 2020 9:48am
    - hullkiwi
      
      ….and they don’t necessarily all reside in the US of A!
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:28am
  - Ehlana
    
    How many of those following Trump are doing so for entertainment value, rather than because they agree with him?
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:26am
    - Lance
      
      It was like watching Charlie Sheen’s meltdown a few years ago, people went along to his “The dangerous torpedo of truth” show out of morbid curiosity
      
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      December 14, 2020 11:08am
  - softail 1450
    
    M P ,the prison population of the USA.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:55am
  - C J Southern
    
    It tells me that that 90 million people are stupid.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:59am
    - JackRabbit
      
      People are not stupid because their opinions are different to yours. Perhaps it is you that is stupid.
      
      90,000,000 million Americans vs 1.0 C J Southern
      
      As a senior citizen was driving down the freeway, his car phone rang. Answering, he heard his wife’s voice urgently warning him, “Herman, I just heard on the news that there’s a car with a stupid driver going the wrong way on 280. Please be careful!”
      
      “Hell,” said Herman, “It’s not just one stupid driver in a car. There’s hundreds of them!”
      
      Perhaps C J Southern, you are the odd one out!
      
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      December 14, 2020 11:07am
      - C J Southern
        
        When 75,000,000 believe a guy who has zero credibility and can’t produce any evidence to support what he’s asserting then that says far more about them than it does about me.
        
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        December 14, 2020 2:39pm
  - guardianista
    
    Obama has 127m, does this mean he was a better president than trump?
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:07am
  - IC5000
    
    That losers use social media as a substitute for having a real life. What kind of cretin would take pictures of food they ordered in a restaurant and post it on Instagram ffs. It takes a special kind of stupid to think this is a worthwhile achievement.
    
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    December 14, 2020 5:43pm
- MCos
  
  You not still on about America’s election?
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:55am
- SGA
  
  Kev, I’ll be upfront. I don’t have the time nor the inclination to watch random youtube videos because they might have something to say (or, more likely, they are a complete waste of my time). How about a few sentences noting the key points/main arguments before such links so that people like me can decide whether it is worth the effort? Telling me, for example, he’s a pastor (why is that important?), doesn’t count.
  
  Perhaps I am alone in this grumble, but I doubt it. For me, naked “links” are a turn off.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:59am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    For me, naked links are turn-on, but I’m not certain we’re talking about the same thing… ;-P
    
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    December 14, 2020 12:30pm
    - SGA
      
      what you do with sausages in the privacy of your own home is entirely your own business, as far as I am concerned 🙂
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:39pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        I see what you did there 🙂
        
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        December 14, 2020 7:05pm
- BeeJay
  
  FFS Kev, Give it a rest! When it’s all done and dusted and Biden becomes 46 on January 20 you’re going to be so upset you’ll need psychiatric care!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Yeah Kev, let it go. On January 30, 1933, a certain man is going to become chancellor of Germany. And when he does, everyone will know that the extremist ideas that he is corrupt, will be assigned to the trashcan of conspiracy theories. 😉
    
    No-one has ever rigged an election. Venezuela have the most transparent election system in the world. 😉
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:09am
    - C J Southern
      
      If the US elections had been rigged in any way, shape, or form then some credible evidence of that would have surfaced by now.
      
      The FACT that no credible evidence has been found tells you all you need to know.
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:56am
      - Fletch
        
        You mean like the TONNE of evidence that has come out so far? The ballots in suitcases in Georgia? The hundreds of thousands of votes added only in swing states early in the morning that are 98% for Biden? The sworn affidavits by thousands of people? The FACT that states changed their election laws illegally to remove all safeguards of mail-in voting?
        
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        December 14, 2020 11:13am
      - JackRabbit
        
        The FACT that no credible evidence has been found tells you all you need to know.
        
        Your opinion, is not fact.
        
        Anyone stating that it is a FACT that no credible evidence has been found does not make it a FACT.
        
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        December 14, 2020 11:14am
      - SGA
        
        You mean like the TONNE of evidence that has come out so far? The ballots in suitcases in Georgia? The hundreds of thousands of votes added only in swing states early in the morning that are 98% for Biden? The sworn affidavits by thousands of people?
        
        All of which seems to wither away once exposed to the scrutiny of the court system.
        
        If there is so much evidence of such extensive criminal activities, then people will, and should, be pursued in court (irrespective of the election outcome). Then you and your like-minded cohort can crow about how right you were.
        
        Or, you’ve been had.
        
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        December 14, 2020 1:05pm
      - Fletch
        
        If there is so much evidence of such extensive criminal activities, then people will, and should, be pursued in court (irrespective of the election outcome)
        
        Um, what do you think they’ve been doing in all these cases? Exactly that! But courts have dismissed cases with no real reason. All they had to do was grant discovery and the evidence would have been collected. As I have said many times – no one goes to court with a truckload of evidence. They have reason to believe there is cause, the court grants discovery (a very low bar) and then the evidence is collected and presented.
        
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        December 14, 2020 2:37pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @Fletch
        
        If there had been a “tonne of evidence” then either (a) it hasn’t been presented to a court (gosh – I wonder why that would be …) or (b) a judge didn’t find the “evidence” credible.
        
        So which was it?
        
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        December 14, 2020 2:42pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @JackRabbit
        
        No – not “my opinion”; that was the opinion of multiple judges – in multiple courts – at multiple levels – in multiple states.
        
        Bottom line is you lot either need to “put up” or “shut up”; if evidence is credible enough that a judge agreed with it (which hasn’t happened so far) only then do you get to use it – so lets see some.
        
        In contrast, don’t expect any credibility from referring to childish creative misinterpretations & downright fabrications that are so flawed that not even Trump lawyers will try to use it.
        
        If you’re alleging all of this fraud was real – because presumably you’ve found the evidence to be so convincing – you REALLY need to ask yourself why either (a) their lawyers aren’t presenting it or (b) the courts aren’t finding it credible.
        
        Again, it’s a FACT (not opinion) that even Trump lawyers aren’t preenting most of it and judges haven’t been remotely pursuaded by arguments and evidence that has been presented.
        
        The bottom line here is that Trump can’t back up his assertions and you lot can’t prove any of them either. That’s fact – not opinion.
        
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        December 14, 2020 2:52pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @ Fletch
        
        “Um, what do you think they’ve been doing in all these cases? Exactly that!”
        
        Um – no. No they haven’t. In contrast in the vast majority of the cases the lawyers are not alleging fraud. In many cases the lawyers are explicitly signing statements & telling judges that they are not alleging fraud (including Guiliani).
        
        Here’s some excerpts:
        
        ‘In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted.’
        
        ‘Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.’
        
        ‘In yet another state case in Bucks County, Pa., Trump’s attorneys signed a joint stipulation of facts that explicitly admits that they are not alleging fraud, despite the President and his lawyers’ repeated public claims, according to Marc Elias, a lawyer working for Democrats on election-related cases. The stipulation of facts reads in part: “Petitioners do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any fraud in connection with the challenged ballots.” The stipulation also says they don’t allege or have evidence of “misconduct” or “impropriety” in connection with the challenged ballots.’
        
        ‘On Thursday, a judge rejected the Trump campaign’s attempt to throw out absentee ballots in the Bucks County case, noting, “The parties specifically stipulated in their comprehensive stipulation of facts that there exists no evidence of any fraud, misconduct, or any impropriety with respect to the challenged ballots. There is nothing in the record and nothing alleged that would lead to the conclusion that any of the challenged ballots were submitted by someone not qualified or entitled to vote in this election.”’
        
        ‘In a state case concerning votes in Maricopa County, Ariz., Trump lawyers again dodged and weaved. On Nov. 12, the same day that the President himself was tweeting about hundreds of thousands of votes being stolen from him, a Trump campaign attorney Kory Langhofer told a judge, “We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election.”’
        
        ‘While Trump has repeatedly claimed that glitches in voting machines were evidence of foul play, Langhofer also threw cold water on that idea, saying instead the case concerned “a limited number of cases” of “good-faith errors in operating machines.”’
        
        ‘Lawyers representing Trump’s campaign sent a letter to Attorney General William Barr on Nov. 5 alleging “criminal voter fraud” in Nevada. But lawyers representing Trump never made that allegation in court filings. Instead, as in many of the other Trump campaign election cases, the Nevada filings focus on much smaller claims, including questions about the use of a scanning machine to verify signatures and whether observers had proper access to observe vote counting.’
        
        ‘In a separate state case in Montgomery County, Pa., a judge asked Trump lawyer Jonathan S. Goldstein whether he was alleging fraud. “Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith.” The judge pressed Goldstein to answer the specific question: “Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” To which Goldstein replied: “To my knowledge at present, no.”’
        
        “But courts have dismissed cases with no real reason.”
        
        Um, again, no – they haven’t. They issue comprehensive written decisions that you can read if you want to.
        
        “As I have said many times – no one goes to court with a truckload of evidence. They have reason to believe there is cause, the court grants discovery (a very low bar) and then the evidence is collected and presented.”
        
        So we agree that no credible evidence currently exists of fraud. Great. Glad we got that sorted.
        
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        December 14, 2020 3:08pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @ Fletch
        
        So – let’s fact-check some of this:
        
        “The ballots in suitcases in Georgia?”
        
        ‘The video in question — which has been widely shared across social media — was presented to Georgia state legislators during the Dec. 3 hearing by a lawyer named Jacki Pick, who said she was volunteering for Trump’s legal team. Pick is listed as a lawyer by the State Bar of Texas, but she appears to work primarily as a conservative podcast host. She and her husband, Doug Deason, are major Republican donors.
        
        Pick said Trump’s legal team received the video the night before and that it shows observers and the press leaving a room at Atlanta’s State Farm Arena, which was used to count absentee and military ballots, shortly before 11 p.m. She claimed that, according to witnesses, a woman had told the observers and press that “we’re going to stop counting, everyone go home.”
        
        She pointed out that many of the elections workers had left for the night in the video, but four workers are seen in the video staying behind to continue counting.
        
        “Once everyone is gone, coast is clear, they are going to pull ballots out from underneath a table – watch this table,” she said at the hearing. “I saw four suitcases come out from underneath the table.” The video shows the counting continued until nearly 1 a.m., she said.
        
        But the supposed “suitcases” were typical ballot containers used to secure ballots, Georgia’s Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs told us in a phone interview. Likewise, Matthew Mashburn, the state Senate’s appointee to the state election board, told us the video showed “standard secure containers that are ubiquitous in tabulation in Georgia.”
        
        And Gabriel Sterling, the state’s voting system implementation manager, said that the full video showed that the containers were carrying ballots that were opened and processed earlier in the night. They weren’t suspicious ballots brought surreptitiously into the building, or ballots that were opened in secret.
        
        “They were put in there about an hour earlier,” Sterling, a Republican, said by phone. He said of the Trump campaign: “They watched the same video tape.”
        
        Sterling also said he saw no anomalies in the vote data that suggested any kind of mass voter fraud, as has been alleged. “These are just regular elections workers” doing their job, he said.
        
        While state law allows for observers to watch the vote counting, Sterling said, it was not illegal for the vote counting to resume when the observers left. He said his office was working on making the video footage from the arena public so that voters could see the footage with more context.’
        
        So no evidence of fraud there.
        
        The hundreds of thousands of votes added only in swing states early in the morning that are 98% for Biden?
        
        https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-vote-spikes-mi-wi-idUSKBN27L2RL
        
        The sworn affidavits by thousands of people?
        
        That mostly contain either heresay along the lines of “I think I might have heard someone say this” or “I think I might have seen someone acting suspiciously”. The courts have commented on these numerous times, or things like “One said military ballots going to Joe Biden ‘stuck out’ to them because they believed military ‘tended to be more conservative” or “Another claimed independent poll watchers seemed ‘ideologically far-left’ and supported the proclaimed autonomous zone in Seattle”.
        
        The FACT that states changed their election laws illegally to remove all safeguards of mail-in voting?
        
        Complete and utter BS. Some allowances were made to make it safer for people to vote in these COVID times and it’s been ruled (and is being appealed) that in some cases the person who extended something didn’t have authority to do that. That in no way, shape, or form “removed all safeguards”. They have extensive safeguards which – ironically – is why many of the accusations of “counting ballots more than once” and “creating fake ballots” completely fail.
        
        I’ll tell you what your problem is – you only listen to things said in an echo chamber; they sound real convincing because (a) they’re what you want to hear and (b) nobody pushes back against them because like you it’s what they want to hear – but THEY’RE NOT REAL. THAT is the reason why the vast majority of them aren’t even being presented to a court. To date not only has there not been any evidence proving fraud with a few minor exceptions there haven’t even been anything significant enough to warrent the courts ordering further investigation. That in itself is all the evidence you need of just how low-credibility all this childish nonsense is.
        
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        December 14, 2020 4:54pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        Upticked you by mistake. 🙁
        
        I disagree that there is no evidence. In any event a crime is not acted upon by the affected party providing evidence.
        
        You do not understand principles of justice. Justice starts with investigation of anomalies – unexplained things that cannot be accounted for in the normal context of events, and that do not fit the flow of events or narrative.
        
        Your neighbour and best friend informs you that every time you go away overnight on a sales trip, a strange car is outside your house overnight. The car is registered to a person whom your spouse had a brief but spicy affair, with while you were engaged to be married, but all was forgiven.
        
        The car parked outside your house is NOT evidence. Photos of them “going at it like rabbits” would be evidence. However the car outside your house is a red flag. Only being outside your house when you are away is red flag #2. Being outside your house overnight is red flag #3. And enough certainty to hire a PI.
        
        In the US election case, producing evidence, of which there is already quite a bit would take thousands of hours or tens of thousands of hours. To request, verify, collate, produce time lines for and much much more.
        
        In this instance, massive ballot spikes for Biden and not Trump, broken custody chain, more ballots received back than sent out, voting machines with no error correction to prevent multiple ballot scans, no scanning logs, and people counted in floating point not integers, 12 USB sticks in one booth when a max of 2 were allowed, boxes of ballots uncounted, the list goes on. All red flags. Dozens of red flags.
        
        And red flags to a professional investigator, which you are not. It does mean that Trump would have won, but it does mean that things are not as they should be. Anomalies, red flags or out of context activity are all in a day’s work for a professional investigator. But then you wouldn’t know, because you are not one.
        
        Software such as
        https://www.digitalforensics.com/blog/i2-analysts-notebook-overview/
        are one of dozens of tools used by professionals to track activity and produce an overview.
        
        But then you wouldn’t know because you aren’t a professional, just someone totally obsessed with Trump losing.
        
        I’m not hung up on Trump winning OR losing. The right President is the one the American people voted for, but the authenticity of the votes is in question.
        
        I’m even more interested in the process, and how people on KB present themselves based on their ability to see information from an unbiased viewpoint.
        
        It appears to me, that you are behaving like a mate’s rottweiler, going after anything it dislikes or that annoys it. You are not able to allow others to have their viewpoint on Trump here on KB without name calling or rubbishing them. It is clear you don’t like Trump. But whether you like him or not, should not sway you or anyone else wanting justice to be done.
        
        Your version of justice as reverse applied to you:
        
        CJSouthern: “Help, my brand new Porsche is missing. It’s been stolen.”
        
        Police: “Do you have evidence of it being stolen?”
        CJSouthern: “It’s missing.”
        
        Police: “That’s not evidence. Speculation is not evidence. Do you have evidence of someone stealing it?”
        
        CJSouthern: “It’s not in my driveway. So it must be stolen.”
        
        Police: “That’s not evidence. That’s speculation. Do you have evidence of someone stealing it?”
        
        CJSouthern: “No.”
        
        Police: “Come back to us when you have evidence of it being stolen, who did it and how they took it and where it is now, and then maybe we will look at it.”
        
        CJSouthern: “But, but , but…”
        
        Never rubbish professional investigation or process, or the justice system, either here or overseas. You wouldn’t want the justice system to fail you when you most need it.
        
        Take care. 🙂
        
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        December 14, 2020 5:04pm
- IC5000
  
  Looks like he’s big in Uganda. Wikipedia doesn’t list where Lively attended law school but I’m assuming University of American Samoa.
  
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  December 14, 2020 5:56pm
Paulus

Happy Christmas Ihumatao Day.
Last Parliamentary “working ” day.
Never thought the I would own a piece of land, as a Christmas present, in Auckland, at today’s value.
Thank you Jacinda for using my money to purchase this land for me and all my fellow New Zealanders.
Assume it is still costing about $40 million ?
I know you and your fellow “partners” could not really care a stuff – after all you do as you are told -it is our money not yours (except your share though).

Sorry Trevor you have not been forgotten – understand that you will remain as Speaker as your, do as you are told, cohorts have the numbers.
Am glad because I and many others would be sorry to see you go. We want you there for the next three years as a reminder of your disgraceful role and our money involved.
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December 14, 2020 8:10am
- sooty
  
  Isn’t it good every day, in every way, when cindy enters the debating chamber, that she is reminded of her failures!
  The duck sits there lording over everbody like a bloody great vulture that he is! Oh, the feels!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:37am
Benedict Yu

This is a terrible decision. How can the government reward people who illegally occupy private property by buying the property for them? And to make it worse, stop 480 houses from being built.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/432767/ihumatao-land-dispute-initial-deal-expected-to-go-to-cabinet-today
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December 14, 2020 8:11am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  That’s okay. Maybe Fletchers did a deal to get approval for their giant housing project in the Kumeu district….
  
  Ref: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fletcher-plans-huge-new-housing-development-in-kumeu-west-auckland-but-residents-up-in-arms/FROJPAX3BDOWYRZ2BH5QQICHY4/
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:08am
- Yabster
  
  yep and as Winnie predicted Labour will do a deal (as he was the handbrake), he also said once the precedent is set look out for more illegal land occupying and Labour stumping up cash- complete BS from Woke Cindykins.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:10am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Yes, but who allowed this to happen in the first place? It was Winston, he put Jacinda in “control”. The fault is all with him!!!
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:38am
  - MCos
    
    Shame Winston got voted out, said 2% of the electorate.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:40am
- Blackbob
  
  Easy, it’s how Kiwibuild works isn’t it?
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:11am
- backster
  
  Just imagine the idyllic obeisance she will receive when welcomed onto the marae at Waitangi and Ratana in the new year though.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    What’s the betting our PM won’t be speaking from the Paepae, though?
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:38am
- NoFax
  
  I suggest some more occupations – maybe in the Sandringham area. I am sure the PM would be more than willing to give her house back once she learns the land was stolen.
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:24am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They’re socialists. Using force to acquire other people’s stuff is the first ingredient listed on the tin. People should read the label before purchase.
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:29am
Nukuleka

And if the message had read ‘Islam is wrong about women’ that would be deemed as hate speech as well. Essentially any opinion about Islam that does not say we should all convert to Islam because it is the panacea for all society’s ills whether expressed in chalk on a pavement or wherever will henceforth be regarded by the woke media as hateful.
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December 14, 2020 8:13am
- MCos
  
  Nobody of consequence seems to be referring to the message outside the mosque as hate except for those who are pro free speech.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:44am
  - gravedodger
    
    So MCos what was the district commander of plods on about when he stated in an interview ” The police are taking this incident “Very Seriously”.
    Cant be the Graffiti as there are daily incidents of that across the City, chalk on a pavement even more common .
    
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    December 14, 2020 1:03pm
    - MCos
      
      Did he say it was hate speech?
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:45pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  That message does resonate. “I’ve been wrong about women” sez every man ever.
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:44am
hullkiwi

From the file of “you can fool some of the people, some of the time, but not all the people all of the time”…….. I give you Jacinda Ardern and James Shaw and their phoney virtue signalling over climate change……

First, earlier this year there was their phoney Carbon Trading Act, and then last week there was the Parliamentary Motion declaring “A Climate Change Emergency”.

But over the weekend we learn, that Boris, Macron and the UN co-host a teleconference with world leaders speaking about their commitments to “combatting climate change”.
NZ was not invited to the conference, because it is believed NZ has not done enough to combat climate change…

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/new-zealand-absent-from-climate-ambition-summit-2020.html

Ouchhhhhh!

No wonder we couldn’t find Jacinda couldn’t be found this weekend. She was hiding, avoiding being asked why we weren’t invited to a teleconference on wokeness….

As for the NZ woke media, they are not taking it well being told what to do by Boris……

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/heat-on-nz-from-unlikely-climate-champion/ar-BB1bTmoq?ocid=msedgntp

So, phoney virtue signalling by PriNZess is recognised for what it is, non-delivery!

However, I find it is ironic too, that we are being lectured to by the UK, the French and the UN. The UK and the Europeans would do well to look in their own backyards before they start lecturing countries about meeting carbon reduction targets, and running virtuous talkshops that exchange nothing but hot air. This given Europe’s love affair with cheap air travel, road transportation of goods across the continent, and the European answer for future electricity is Nuclear power and Windmills near any town of consequence (neither of which is environmentally friendly).
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December 14, 2020 8:20am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Unless the Government shuts the country down you can’t do much to reduce emissions. The average car age in New Zealand is now 14 years. Because that is what people can afford. If the Government “taxes” new petrol powered cars and subsidises EVs most of the gains will be from people who would buy EVs anyway. That is because if you can’t afford a $70k EV you probably can’t afford a $65k EV.
  
  So the result of such policies? People hang on to their old petrol cars for longer, and so New Zealand emissions end up HIGHER than they otherwise would have been.
  
  The best way to reduce New Zealand emissions is policies to increase the incomes of people. They will then buy more fuel efficient cars.
  
  My fear is that Jacinda will be humiliated on the world stage by lack of progress and, literally, make cars unafordable for many people. She probably thinks she has the backing to do that and she may be right. New Zealanders seem to be willing to do anything for her.
  
  Just thought experiment – Imagine in Australia if ScoMo declared climate change emergency and told Australians he was going to tax their cars? The result would not be pretty. Just shows again how the 2 countries are diverging.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:46am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Benedict sorry, fat fingers hit wrong link. I agree, short of shutting countries down, getting back to 1990 levels is almost impossible.
    
    The only real way to reduce emissions is to reduce the world’s population, in order to reduce activity and therefore reduce energy use and the emission of carbon.
    
    But that isn’t going to happy, so why the pretence that these talk shops will create a solution. As for EVs (and any variants), all evidence to date suggests that whole of life carbon emissions do not reduce, so where does that get us then?
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:43am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The thing is the USA, EU, and Australia are now all reducing emissions rapidly.
      
      https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/6686d48f-3f9c-448d-a1b7-7e410fe4f376/files/nggi-quarterly-update-mar-2019.pdf
      
      Australia is beginning to do really well (at great cost) by swapping out coal for renewables. It also has a much younger car fleet than NZ, because it is a richer country.
      
      New Zealand is doing the worst of any developed country when looking at start date of 1990. Of course rest of world knows this and just laughs at Jacinda’s climate emergency. But need to look at it through another lens. We STARTED with high level of renewables in 1990 and get no credit for that. We produce low carbon food for the world. We don’t have much industry.
      
      So where does that leave us? About the only thing we can do is switch to EVs on scale. But we are not a Norway. We can’t afford it. That explains why we are in this situation and why Jacinda can only reduce emissions in a big way if she makes cars not affordable for many people.
      
      You can talk as long as you like and form as many working groups as you like. But you will always come up against the constraints as I have just described it. It is about time Jacinda was advised of this.
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:41pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Benedict I agree with you. We start from low levels so how do you cut what is already a low level by international standards?
        
        1. Europe and all developed countries tries have been cheating by moving manufacturing to China, other parts of Asia, and Indian Ocean countries, where counting and allocating carbon emissions to consuming countries has been difficult in the past; and
        2. Where is the benefit moving to EVs which have greater whole of life emissions (admittedly not all would be directly attributable to NZ) than conventional vehicles?
        
        I agree, getting into fatuous debates about cutting emissions by percentage amounts when you are already at low levels is missing the point completely.
        
        As you point out motor vehicles are obvious, and NZ does not help itself with the importation of used Japanese vehicles. Such vehicles having been taxed off Japanese roads because of the vehicles technical obsolescence. Replace such vehicles with new fossil fuel vehicles would also cut emissions.
        
        EVs also provides NZ with another issue, which is the lack of electricity generating capacity.
        
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        December 14, 2020 2:19pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes we could tax old vehicles as Japan does and make it unaffordable to own veihicle more than six years old. But that would price many new zealanders out of cars.
        
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        December 14, 2020 3:35pm
- hullkiwi
  
  ….and just when you thought Jacinda’s absence from Saturday’s teleconference couln’t get any sillier…..
  
  It is reported by Newshub, that Greta (the Swedish one, who has to be told what to say) Thunberg wades into the debate on NZ’s (in particular Jacinda’s actions (or inactions)) on Climate Change.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/greta-thunberg-calls-out-new-zealand-government-for-so-called-climate-emergency-declaration.html
  
  I am no fan of Jacinda or Shaw, but this is stupid. NZ being lectured by:
  – Johnson;
  – Macron;
  – the UN; and now
  – Thunberg.
  
  Really, by all means have a debate, but at least involve those with credibility.
  
  On last night’s news they even showed an excerpt of the Barbudian PM speaking. At which point you can only laugh, because the economy of Barbados and other Caribbean countries relies on internation tourism i.e. people flying in on nasty passenger jets from the US ans Europe. Do these people realise just how hypicritical and foolish these people make themselves look?
  
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  December 14, 2020 12:22pm
- DenisPurdy
  
  Nuclear is the safest and most environmentally sound way to generate electricity. The fact that the NZ Greens don’t advocate for nuclear is indicative that they don’t really want to solve a problem; they really do want to make out lives darker, colder and poorer.
  
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  December 14, 2020 5:16pm
Yvette

Ihumātao land dispute: Initial deal expected to go to Cabinet today.
RNZ understands the deal is for Fletcher Building to sell the land to the government … so removing Fletchers from the equation, then more work to then decide how the government and mana whenua reach a final agreement about the land would likely still have to be done.

There was speculation back in June a deal was coming together, under which the land would be acquired under the Housing Act, avoiding any conflicts with Treaty of Waitangi settlements but not necessarily meaning any houses would be built there.

1 – Why be dishonest, confuse and lie and invoke the Housing Act? It is the housing value of the land that has boosted it from the $19 million Fletchers paid for it, to something like $40 million as land now rated by Auckland Council for housing.

2 – While Fletchers should of course expect payment of the basic $19 million, there is considerable design input and other work they have done in regard to the proposed housing they intended building, plus surely be compensation for Ardern calling the halt to construction, so wasting 507 days since July 26, 2019?

3 – The existing local iwi Te Kawerau ā Maki Treaty settlement was $6.8 million plus land substituted because Ihumatao privately owned at that time.
If the Government now acquires the land, they are surely obliged to offer it to local iwi Te Kawerau ā Maki, if the iwi will return the substitute land which is apparently forestry blocks.

Such an exchange would be simple adjustment of an existing settlement, providing that settlement was fair to start with, but see “Treaty expert on Ihumātao battle: ‘Crown playing dictator of iwi'” [1]
Also the substitute land – forestry blocks – may now be productive, while Ihumatao is not.

[1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/396902/treaty-expert-on-ihumatao-battle-crown-playing-dictator-of-iwi
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December 14, 2020 8:23am
- Yabster
  
  lets face it Iwi won’t give any land back but they will be given the Ihumatao land- more pandering to illegal occupation by minorities.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  So after conversion of Fletcher’s land for some long months they have finally decided to buy it?
  Lawful?
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:17am
  - artemisia
    
    The Ihumatao deal with Fletchers is lawful if the parties (ie Fletchers) agree.
    
    I think we can be quite sure that Fletchers will check very very carefully before proposing to build more cheap houses for iwi.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:42am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The occupancy was a criminal offence or string of them by activists at the outset assisted by accomplice MP’s. As the Police have dropped their enforcement role too this can still be dealt with privately. Justice must be seen to be done.
      That matter is quite independent of a subsequent land swap which cannot be said to a fair market transaction.
      
      I believe there is another occupation underway at present. Are all the interested Maori going to occupy what they will and treat with the govt for extra privileges for which they have been paid very generously, tax free, as “charities”. Maori are only doing what they customarily did–occupancy equates to ownership. That must be stopped–we have a registered title system not a physical possession one.
      
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      December 14, 2020 5:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Will Labour MPs thumb their noses at Parliament and the people of NZ?

“Well it is certainly true that those Labour Party members of Parliament could choose to vote along party lines and prevent Parliament from getting more information about what’s happened, however, one would hope that they see themselves as New Zealanders and members of Parliament first and Labour Party members second … after all, they swore an oath to the Queen and New Zealand, not the Labour Party

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/432766/national-wants-to-question-parliament-s-speaker-over-costly-legal-dispute
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December 14, 2020 8:38am
- Martin Williams
  
  You didn’t attribute the quote. It was [Deleted – Mod]
  
  [Mod – if you want a holiday from Kiwiblog over the Christmas/New Year period, you’re going the right way about it]
  
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  December 14, 2019 8:42am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    My uptick was for the Mod.
    
    19 1
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    December 14, 2020 9:23am
    - MCos
      
      I wonder if the moderators have a holiday over Xmas?
      
      4 1
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      December 14, 2020 9:48am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Mine too
      
      3 1
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      December 14, 2020 10:02am
  - Swifty
    
    Diversion fail.
    
    It doesn’t matter who said it – what matters are the questions raised. Well to anyone other than Labour hacks that is.
    
    What matters more to Ardern? The openness and transparency of parliamentary activity or venal self-interest of the New Zealand Labour Party and the protection of Trevor?
    
    I know where my money is on.
    
    I predict that they will hang on and hang on until either 1. people get sick of it and move on or 2. H1 and H2 tell Ardern that protecting Trevor is coming at too high a cost to the Party and to cut him loose.
    
    Either way Labour’s interests will be No. 1 Priority and the interests of New Zealanders will be way, way down the list.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:37am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh, my apologies, Martin.
    
    I had assumed that folks on KB were familiar with hyperlinks (that’s the blue text at the bottom of the italicized text).
    
    And due to the magic of the internet, you can hover your cursor over any part of that blue text and if you click on it…whoosh, you will be transported to a new site.
    
    Now, here’s the tough bit, (and I must admit I am a bit naughty sometimes pushing my desire for folks to read for themselves) you have to read through the material that has come up on screen to locate the quote and the chap who said it.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:52am
  - Swifty
    
    How will Ardern be remembered?
    
    1. A politician beloved by all because of the principled stance she took on matters and for looking after the interests of ALL New Zealanders, and ahead of the interests of her own Party.
    
    2. Just another Labour hack who put NZ Labour Party interests not only ahead of NZ’ers interests but actually HARMED NZ’ers interests in doing so in her quest to remain in power.
    
    What a pity for Kiwis she has chosen Option 2.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:09am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Kia ora Martin, ko te tumanako ka pai to ra
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:10am
- GazzaW
  
  I am aware that Mallard is disliked by many Labour MPs but would they be game enough to cross the floor over this issue?
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Jacinda Ardern may end up with the same problem Jim Bolger faced in 1990 – a large caucus, with individuals or groups of MP’s prepared to defy the party on issues they feel strongly about.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:06am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Seems unlikely. Having a large caucus seems more likely to be a strength than a weakenss.
      
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      December 14, 2020 9:23am
      - MCos
        
        Having a large caucus is not an issue the current Nats win be grappling with.
        A minuscule one also presents issues.
        At least they aren’t turning on each other just yet and they’ll never be as bad as the republicans in the US.
        
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        December 14, 2020 9:54am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        I guess time will tell mike
        
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        December 14, 2020 10:04am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Mike, Confucious saith “The largest army will still fail to conquer when led by the weakest linkette.”
        
        9 1
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        December 14, 2020 11:48am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      It occurs to me that despite the Labour caucus’s apparent ‘diversity’ in terms of ethnicity, gender, rainbow status, etc., etc. they look like they think like a pack of clones…
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:07am
      - IC5000
        
        Both National and Labour MPs are basically the same clones. Middle class university educated with the same experience in large organisations. Don’t expect any innovative thinking from either side.
        
        2 2
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        December 14, 2020 4:00pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      She already has a MAORI causus.
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:19am
    - kowtow
      
      Doesn’t matter ,cos the Media Pardy will ensure any controversies , that might see the light of day ,will be written up as a posidive for Jax.
      
      (Unlike their treatment of any and all issues for the Gnats over the last 3 years)
      
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      December 14, 2020 10:30am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “Will Labour MPs thumb their noses at Parliament and the people of NZ?”
  
  Of course they will. They are tribal. Trevor must be protected.
  
  41 2
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  December 14, 2020 8:45am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Trevor ergo the Prinzcess.
    
    No Jacinderella, no trough.
    
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    December 14, 2020 8:55am
  - pdm
    
    `Trevor must be protected’
    
    At all cossts!!!
    
    21 1
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    December 14, 2020 8:57am
- Swifty
  
  “(We will) be the most open, most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had” said Ardern.
  
  Labour, over-promising and under-delivering since forever.
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:50am
  - Paulus
    
    And over 50% of the voters voted for her – not the Labour Party.
    Disgraceful but serves you right – we get the Government we deserve.
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:12am
    - IC5000
      
      You deserve a lot of punishment then if that’s the case. Fate is a cruel mistress but not nearly as cruel and the PM
      
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      December 14, 2020 4:02pm
      - Swifty
        
        ” Fate is a cruel mistress but not nearly as cruel and the PM..”
        
        Please don’t post when pissed IC5000.
        
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        December 14, 2020 6:40pm
kiwikidsnz

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/waikato-mongrel-mob-kingdom-w-hine-toa-lodges-first-ever-all-female-gang-claim-with-waitangi-tribunal.html
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December 14, 2020 8:41am
- Yabster
  
  – the bs waitangi tribunal is a bloody joke isn’t it? It would hear a claim on anything as long as it keeps the fat cats in a job.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:21am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Troughers gotta trough.
    
    4 1
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    December 14, 2020 11:50am
- backster
  
  “The first hearings will take place before Waitangi Day with any final settlement invested in healing programmes and lifting the women out of poverty.”
  
  I wonder who is going to pay to lift the women out of poverty?
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    Make cannabis a taonga. Legalise its use next year. Allow only Maori women to be able to grow it and sell it. It is then covered by the Treaty. I am a starter.
    
    5 2
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    December 14, 2020 10:54am
- Harriet
  
  “……..”Our argument is with colonialism – which doesn’t excuse our men in any way – but it’s the reason behind the way they have reacted,” Ormsby says……”
  
  Enough is enough.
  
  The elephant in the country regards the ‘effects’ of colonialism is Ngai Tahu, and South Is whites.
  
  The civil minded are right, some deserve better than others. 😎
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:08am
softail 1450

So this government thinks it’s okay to build 3500 new houses on waitakere rd kumeu ,obviously none of them live in huapai helensville riverhead kumeu etc.
The single lane roads up in that area are swamped with slow moving cars at any time of the day now so hows it gonna be with an extra 10 k cars when Fletchers has finished?
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December 14, 2020 8:44am
- hullkiwi
  
  AT, Auckland Council and the government don’t care, because none of their leading members/management live there.
  
  out of sight, out of mind…..
  
  oh…..and don’t worry AT/Auckland Council, and Watercare will not worry about the needed infrastructure in a rural, low density residential area either!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:10am
  - Bob
    
    No, or very few socialist votes out in that area.
    
    2 1
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    December 14, 2020 11:28am
- artemisia
  
  The Fletcher proposal is so far just that. Maybe there will be a ‘Sleepyhead’ creating a lot of jobs in a new village so many residents don’t need to travel.
  
  How about government offices for a start. Win win.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:12am
  - softail 1450
    
    fletchers have bought the land so it’s going ahead unless it’s occupied by the local IWIs which there are around 7 of.
    
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    December 14, 2020 11:02am
- fernglas
  
  Fear not, there will be cycle lanes and light rail before you know it.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:14am
- Bob
  
  There will be double/triple tracking of the Helensville line announced in the New Year, after the Ihumatao agreement is completed.
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:32am
Maggie Pie

Headed up to Tindalls yesterday to get a few bits & bobs sorted prior to the holidays. I spent most of the day changing beds and washing the linen. Even washed the house down and cleaned all the windows. My partner managed to flush both of the Outboards on the boat and even took his new E-Bike for a trial-run out to the Peninsula.
By the end of the day we were both pretty stuffed, so on the way home headed to our fave restaurant for a ‘Peking Duck’. The manager there knows my partner from getting takeaways and showed us to a table. We asked him what he thought about the current goings on with the Chinese government? He was quick to point out that we should call it the “CCP”, as it doesn’t speak for all New Zealand Chinese. (Interesting, eh).
The duck was fab. Two pots of green tea, a shared plate of lychees, and we were out of there. Went to pay the bill and there were two really attractive Chinese girls standing behind the counter talking in Mandarin. My partner paid cash and added a $20 tip. They both bowed and put their hands together in a gesture of praise. Funny people.
As we headed out to the car I remarked how polite they seemed. My partner replied that he wouldn’t trust them as far as he could throw them.
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December 14, 2020 8:44am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  And you think your ‘lovely’ white neighbours who worship Cindy, believe in the apocalyptic cults of COVID and AGW can be trusted either?
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:48am
- stewmar
  
  Maggie Pie, Unless you are being sarcastic I think that your dreadfully racist comments about Chinese are disgraceful
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:54am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    She thinks her racist comments will amuse people. Sadly, on Kiwiblog, she is probably correct.
    
    12 36
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    December 14, 2020 9:25am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    I think once the list of a couple of million comes out with links to the CCP worldwide,there could be some very interesting conclusions.
    We will clearly know who sits on which side of the fence. One thing for sure and certain, There will be politicians in every country, that’s who they target.
    Not anything to do with racism, just cold hard facts.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:29am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I wonder if the two down tickers are members of the CCP.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OumhrE6JV3A&feature=youtu.be
      
      6 6
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      December 14, 2020 11:21am
  - BAM
    
    It does seem to be a common theme, I don’t know why the moderators on here allow the constant stream of racist unfunny dross from Maggie the catfish.
    
    12 22
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    December 14, 2020 9:33am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Bam, I think that Maggie and her partner would be a great pair to join for a beer and a few wines, just to listen to them. Your above comment is terribly unkind.
      
      10 8
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      December 14, 2020 12:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Perhaps BAM is not as appreciative of racist banter as you are.
        
        5 9
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        December 14, 2020 1:50pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Isn’t humor such a wonderful talent
    Brendan Grace bless his soul, was amongst the best
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUHS2_y1xLk
    
    3 1
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    December 14, 2020 3:12pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      OMG – that was sooo funny!! 😛
      
      Better hope that Nark calling himself ‘BAM’ doesn’t see it. LOL
      
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      December 14, 2020 4:26pm
- Biscuit
  
  Your Peking Duck reminded me of our one in, surprise, Peking/Beijing a few years back, Maggie.
  
  From my computer diary:
  
  I ‘misbehaved’ tonight whilst having a Peking Duck dinner … but it wasn’t my fault, honest…
  We arrived at our chosen restaurant (‘DaDong’) and immediately saw an open space kitchen where a few chefs were moving in and out the roasted ducks from hung ovens. The fat and juicy ducks are traditionally roasted for 30 to 40 minutes using the coals.
  
  There was a crowd. And, boy, China does crowds. Those folk, like us, had made reservations. But we all waited an hour before we got seated. So when our ‘super lean’ roasted duck (about $NZ 56) arrived – with no accompanying dishes – we ‘dug in’ in a very hungry fashion and had polished off a fair chunk each of the meat before a waitress arrived with a set of plates carrying strips of cucumber, rock melon, spring onion, minced garlic, oyster sauce, preserved radish and sugar that I now know, ha, you are meant to stuff, with your duck, inside the bun-like thin flour wrappers (called man tou).
  
  The waitress was most perturbed, ha, that we’d begun without her doing her routine of showing us what we were supposed to do and she was speedily onto her boss via a cell phone. Dunno what she said because she said it, I guess, in Mandarin but, I told (my partner) later, it was probably along the lines of ‘The b*ggers started without me – uncouth f*cking Westerners!’
  
  Serves her (well, the restaurant) right for making me wait an hour!
  
  What’d I think of the duck? Tasty, but too fatty/greasy for my palate and I’d not order it again just for that reason. The plum sauce, mind, was delish…
  
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  December 14, 2020 8:59am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    What a fab description Bikkie – made my mouth water 😛
    Try as I may, the one thing I have never mastered the art of is ‘Peking Duck’. Like most Westerners, I’m hopeless at it. Even my thin flour wrappers come out like pikelets.
    
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    December 14, 2020 9:39am
- MCos
  
  I don’t know what goes on in Chinese restaurants, but if it was Thai those cashiers are probably saying. What’s he giving us $20 for? I wouldn’t trust this guy as far as I could throw him.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:12am
  - SB2
    
    MCos, exactly my thoughts
    
    1 9
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    December 14, 2020 10:41am
- Ruahine
  
  Maggie. The girls may well have thought something similar.
  Like funny man. I wonder what he wants?
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:59am
  - sooty
    
    We love you, long time!
    
    1 0
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    December 14, 2020 5:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Damn cold in Gizzy today.
Where’s last week’s lovely summer disappeared to?

My Garden Picnickers had to decamp into the living room yesterday… Sitting for 2hours outside with a chill southerly gusting in was so reminiscent of Wellington that I began to get the shivers.
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December 14, 2020 9:00am
- sooty
  
  That’s a good girl! You bought your ducklings inside to keep them nice and warm!
  Aint you lovely!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:44am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ha, ha…
    
    Old Ducks or Boilers would have been a better descriptor of my Garden Party gals….
    (But let’s keep that our little secret).
    
    5 0
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    December 14, 2020 2:02pm
- Ruahine
  
  It must be a climate emergency in Gisborne. The thing that we keep hearing about.
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:01am
Biscuit

Maggy, the TV One weather people will be at your door in five…

I can just see it now…

‘Chaos in Gisborne today as temperatures dropped into the below-teens’…

Hilary Barry will probably interview you on Seven Sharp right afterwards!

(Let’s hope Hils dresses for the occasion and doesn’t get her usual sad detractors moaning that she had anything inappropriate uncovered!)
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December 14, 2020 9:09am
- sooty
  
  If the temperature keeps down, maybe you will missout on royalty visting!
  As if you’ll be so lucky!
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:46am
Yvette

Ardern – said both the Speaker and ministers had an arrangement where, if they were legally challenged for what they had said, “we are covered for that if it is in the course of us doing our duties”.
This had been in place for years, Ardern said.

Last year, then-Deputy Speaker, National MP Anne Tolley was the one who signed off that Mallard’s legal costs would be covered by the taxpayer.
It was considered that because the Speaker is the Minister responsible for Parliamentary Services, Parliament’s administrative entity, he should get the same entitlements as ministers.
Tolley sought advice from the Solicitor-General about the case.

So why did Tolley seek advice from the Solicitor-General about the case if “This had been in place for years”? [$4641.70 went to Crown Law for advice to the former Deputy Speaker]
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December 14, 2020 9:10am
- pdm
  
  If the Speaker gets – `the same entitlement as Ministers’.
  
  Then he should be accountable to New Zealanders through the OIA process.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    MPs (and parliament more generally) are not subject to the OIA. Ministers and government agencies are.
    
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    December 14, 2020 12:12pm
- Swifty
  
  “we are covered for that if it is in the course of us doing our duties”.
  
  What a pity NZ taxpayers aren’t ‘covered’ when reckless Labour bullies open their great gobs on Parliament’s steps and openly defame other Kiwis with the most disgraceful, and untrue, accusations.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:44am
- Bob
  
  Then SLG wasn’t even at school when that legislation she refers to was in place; amended by Anne Tolley under instruction from Mallard. Henceforth to be known as the the ‘Mallard Amendment’
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:26am
I remember when

“Islam is right about women.”
Would appear to be the ideal ‘hate speech’ to have as a test case of any intended law.
It would allow the freedom to investigate all the possible ways that a statement either is, or isn’t, hate speech.
Perhaps it is a Christmas Present for the legal profession.
The present that never stops giving!
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December 14, 2020 9:17am
WaynelSexton

Be interesting to see if any New Zealanders make the list

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001
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December 14, 2020 9:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I doubt that the China sympathisers in our National and Labour parties have gone so far as joining the CCP. It’s probably not a requirement to accept the donations they so happily rely on.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:30am
  - sooty
    
    Oh, helens a founding member and they gave her own foundation!
    
    12 2
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    December 14, 2020 9:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Helen (Clark, I presume) must a a lot older than I thought if she was a founding member of the Chinese communist Party.
      
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      December 14, 2020 12:13pm
      - sooty
        
        Yep! Old as the hills and twice as craggy!
        
        2 0
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        December 14, 2020 5:18pm
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    To Mike’s downtickers on this issue he is right. There is little I agree with him on but on the issue of China’s influence on both National and Labour he has been consistent and IMHO totally correct.
    We need to start looking at what at the time seemed odd decisions from both this government anbd the previous one in the light of China having undue influence.
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:18am
mikenmildagain

Congratulations to President Trump! Another historic middle east peace deal has ended the long-running war between Israel and Bhutan.
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December 14, 2020 9:33am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  That’s just nasty milken
  
  These peace deals ALSO mean that Israelis are able to go on holiday to these places.
  
  In the 1980’s the only place Israel citizens could visit in South East Asia was Thailand. The other places were closed due to official anti-Semetic stances of various SE Asian governments.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:53am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Bhutan maybe only bite-sized, but that is how you eat the elephant of Middle-Eastern conflict: one mouthful at a time…
  
  16 2
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  December 14, 2020 9:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now we just need the US, and the UK, and France, and China, and Russia.. (you know, the big 5 of the UN) to set up some diplomatic ties with Bhutan.
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:16am
  - SB2
    
    Four of the big five actually do have diplomatic ties with Bhutan,,
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Bhutan
    
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    December 14, 2020 10:47am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Did you even bother to read the material in your link?
      
      *Bhutan has no diplomatic relations with its northern neighbor, the People’s Republic of China,
      
      *Bhutan has no diplomatic relations with Russia.
      
      Check the Table at the end of the Article and you will see No mention of France and an empty space for Diplomatic Mission with UK column.
      
      The link you provides refers us on to another site for Bhutan-USA relations…
      and states
      While both countries do not share diplomatic missions,
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan%E2%80%93United_States_relations
      
      So SB2… the 5 permanent states of the UN do not have diplomatic ties to Bhutan
      
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      December 14, 2020 2:23pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    OMG, you mean Bhutan is not an international heavy hitter?
    
    2 8
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    December 14, 2020 10:51am
- kowtow
  
  Bhutan is a darling of the Media pardy . Often reported as very peaceful and happy. Measures happiness , not productividy ( heard that before?)
  
  But we take refugees from there who are fleeing ethnic cleansing and other appalling atrocities.
  
  Something doesn’t add up in Media Lalaland.
  
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  December 14, 2020 10:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Thank you. I didn’t know anything about that. I see NZ has taken about 600 refugees from Bhutan.
    
    2 1
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    December 14, 2020 3:18pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The ethnic conflicts have been going on for ages..
      NZ was the first country to take Bhutanese refugees… many who had been in refugee camps in Nepal for years.
      
      Bhutanese refugees have been settled in Nelson, PN, and Chch.
      
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      December 14, 2020 5:02pm
I remember when

Grand daughter to her mother, “You’re making it really hard to believe in Father Christmas, when you keep saying I wont get anything if I don’t behave myself.”
8 1
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December 14, 2020 9:45am
Yvette

If the statement “Islam is Right about Women” is hate speech, how about “Islam is the religion of peace”, which is more often than not, said by a Muslim?
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December 14, 2020 10:17am
Maggie Pie

“I’m proud to be Asian” – said the Asian.
“I’m proud to be Black” – said the African.
“I’m proud to be White” – said the racist.
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December 14, 2020 10:18am
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie, you are that self-conscious about your skin colour?
  
  2 19
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  December 14, 2020 10:48am
- WaynelSexton
  
  A conservative will let you destroy his nations economy and culture, as long as you promise not to call him a racist.
  
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  December 14, 2020 11:03am
Frank the tank

Of course we could compare against Obama’s mideast peace agreements.

Remind me what are they?
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December 14, 2020 10:19am
- SB2
  
  Frank the Tank, I believe Obama included the Palestinians in any durable peace deal with Israel.
  
  Biden will likely follow in his predecessor’s footsteps.
  
  3 18
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  December 14, 2020 10:51am
NoFax

In the US, the Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said that all nursing home patients will have the Covid-19 vaccine by Christmas. And should have 100 million Americans vaccinated by end of March next year.

Here the government hasn’t even started the planning to roll out the vaccine. The big news of travel to the Cook Islands is a cruel joke as it won’t happen until March next year.

If this is a crises can they act like it for once – or is this the same as the child poverty crises, housing crises, climate emergency. Lots of words but no action.
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December 14, 2020 10:31am
Doctor Sigmund Freud

One of the Great Scams of COVID is the misuse of the term ‘non-medical interventions’.

It is supposed to imply a medical ‘thingy’ that is non-invasive.

THAT IS UTTER BULLSHIT.

A ‘non-medical’ intervention is a ‘medical intervention involving the unwarranted intrusion of police and other government officials’ and includes:

– Unconstitutional detention of large sections of the community.
– Forced wearing of masks
– Unsocial distancing rules
– Forced alienation of family, friends and the elderly
– Potential fines and JAIL TERMS!!!
– Killing of innocent sick people by denial of medial treatment to ‘save hospitals’
– Patrolling of beaches and parks by uniformed pigs to create fear and panic
– Allowing police unwarranted searches of homes
– Closing of businesses leading to bankruptcies.

My GOD Dr Ashley Bloomfield has blood on his hands.

Dr Death eh!

I’m beginning to wonder if Dr Death is guilty of crimes against humanity!!!

The GREAT LIE: Non-medical interventions!
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December 14, 2020 10:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Patrolling of beaches and parks by uniformed pigs
  
  You are a disgusting person.
  
  7 13
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  December 14, 2020 1:20pm
  - Batman
    
    Tell us something we don’t know, Mike.
    
    6 8
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    December 14, 2020 1:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I would point out that he gets plenty of upticks for his hateful opinions, although that is also self-evident.
      
      6 11
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      December 14, 2020 1:52pm
      - sooty
        
        Just like you get more downticks than everybody except the sb2!
        
        2 2
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        December 14, 2020 5:22pm
  - NoFax
    
    If I saw a pig in uniform I would be afraid.
    
    6 0
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    December 14, 2020 2:26pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Kunekune? Yorkie? Yucatan? Sinclair? Yeah that would be weird…
      
      5 0
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      December 14, 2020 3:06pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Particularly look out for large white boars.
        
        2 2
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        December 14, 2020 6:00pm
Rich Prick

Greta is furious with us. But I can’t remember where I left my last fuck to give.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/greta-thunberg-calls-out-new-zealand-over-lack-of-climate-change-action/O2IQVQ6QZ2O7OLYIKLI5FAAR3I/
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December 14, 2020 10:54am
- Swifty
  
  Heh
  
  10 1
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  December 14, 2020 11:08am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  How dare she!
  
  10 1
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  December 14, 2020 11:16am
- Fletch
  
  She needs to given a swift talking to about the REAL danger the world faces (Covid) and sent to her room without any supper…
  
  8 3
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  December 14, 2020 11:22am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Probably not the response from Greta that Ardern was hoping for!
  
  10 1
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  December 14, 2020 11:35am
- WellingtonBFF
  
  Oooh Greta vs Jaspinda!! Clash of the frowns!!
  
  Or should we call it the Clown Frown Showdown!!
  
  12 1
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  December 14, 2020 12:52pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    I have heard of the Game of Thrones.
    How about the Game of Frowns?
    
    3 0
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    December 14, 2020 4:41pm
- NoFax
  
  Doesn’t she know that Cindy is the best PM ever!
  
  7 0
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  December 14, 2020 2:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is she 18 yet?
  
  1 1
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  December 14, 2020 6:01pm
Scooter

Darwin award goes to… Honestly if you are young and have a death wish fair enough but a 38 year old mother with 2 young children???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/300182604/dangerous-selfies-can-kill-you-australian-police-warn-after-woman-falls-to-her-death?cid=app-android
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December 14, 2020 10:59am
Juliet2554

Nobody minus the Australia media is talking about a list of CCP members has been leaked worldwide. All 2 million of them. CCP members on the biggest boards throughout the world.
Let’s see which NZ university has members on their board?
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6216007204001
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December 14, 2020 11:01am
Harriet

“……..”Our argument is with colonialism – which doesn’t excuse our men in any way – but it’s the reason behind the way they have reacted,” Ormsby says……”

Enough is enough.

The elephant in the country regards the ‘effects’ of colonialism is Ngai Tahu, and South Is whites.

Maori are right, some deserve better than others. 😎
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December 14, 2020 11:22am
I remember when

Greta Thunberg calls out New Zealand.
Just when I was wondering if we were getting anything right!
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December 14, 2020 11:22am
Maggie Pie

A reminder…

Lifestyles of the rich & famous 😀

TV3 tonite @ 8:45

‘TARANAKI HARD’ (R16)
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December 14, 2020 11:35am
- sooty
  
  You have got to be kidding!
  
  2 0
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  December 14, 2020 5:24pm
Fletch

Looks like the Dems will try the same cheating strategy in the Georgia runoffs. There are 1.2 million absentee ballots requested, 85,000 of those new voters.
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December 14, 2020 11:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Dear old Fletch. Are absentee ballots always fraudulent?
  
  5 9
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  December 14, 2020 1:04pm
Fletch

Boxes of mail-in ballots for Georgia hidden in a warehouse in Fulton County, many shipped from Arizona.

https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1338214339447296003
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December 14, 2020 11:42am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you enjoy the crowd of Trumpers chanting “destroy the GOP”?
  
  5 10
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  December 14, 2020 1:05pm
  - Batman
    
    Too busy listening to the Qlawyers latest round of internet comments and forum posts presented as evidence
    
    5 6
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    December 14, 2020 1:41pm
- C J Southern
  
  So what did the judge say about it when they were presented with this strong evidence?
  
  4 1
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  December 14, 2020 3:12pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Nah, Unless they have been filled in (which I am pretty sure they haven’t) they’re just excess ballots printed for the election that weren’t required.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I didn’t know this……
“In 1975, President Ford was left to manage the difficult ending of the Vietnam War. President Ford went to Congress for a relief package to allow American personnel and our allies to evacuate. However, there was ONE US SENATOR who opposed any such support. The result was the embarrassing and hurried evacuation from the roof of the American embassy in Saigon. This senator reveled in the embarrassment and did everything he could to leverage it politically against Ford. Despite the efforts of this U.S .Senator–President Ford managed to rescue 1,500 South Vietnamese allies prior to the country’s fall. Had President Ford not acted quickly, these people would have been targeted and slaughtered for their support for America. When they arrived in America, President Ford asked Congress for a package to assist these refugees integrate into American society. That SAME troublesome SENATOR TORPEDOED ANY SUPPORT for these shell shocked, anti communist, Americans and our helpers, refugees. Instead, President Ford had to recruit Christian organizations to offer assistance on a voluntary basis. As he did so, the Senator belittled those efforts. What kind of person would oppose President Ford’s tireless work to do the right and humanitarian thing? Who would want to play politics with the well-being of innocent people who stood by America in the tragic Vietnam War? THAT SENATOR WAS JOE BIDEN”
From the book –
”When the Center Held. ”by Donald Rumsfeld in 2018.(biography)
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December 14, 2020 11:45am
- mikenmildagain
  
  https://medium.com/@osunick/no-the-democrats-didnt-try-to-stop-vietnamese-refugees-from-coming-in-1975-6da0736bd14b
  
  3 8
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  December 14, 2020 12:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I didn’t write it Mike, Rumsfeld did. It is a perfect example of Biden being a traitor and commie
    
    10 8
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    December 14, 2020 1:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    As usual , an opinion by Nick Nguyen blogger
    
    7 5
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    December 14, 2020 1:10pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Please help me out by listing the factual errors…
      
      4 6
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      December 14, 2020 1:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Hold up. Are you saying that Rumsfeld was lying in 2018? Seems to be what you are saying. Stop beating about thebush
        
        6 5
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        December 14, 2020 2:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes. It’s Rumsfeld, why wouldn’t he be lying?
        
        3 5
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        December 14, 2020 3:00pm
- Pharmachick
  
  “The centre will not hold”
  
  The Second Coming.
  WB Yeats
  
  “The poem is also connected to the 1918–1919 flu pandemic. In the weeks preceding Yeats’s writing of the poem, his pregnant wife Georgie Hyde-Lees caught the virus and was very close to death. The highest death rates of the pandemic were among pregnant women—in some areas, they had up to a 70 percent death rate. While his wife was convalescing, he wrote “The Second Coming”.”
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Coming_(poem)
  
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  December 14, 2020 4:05pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    1918 pandemic was rough. My grandmother was married at 17 had 4 children and died aged only 24. She may well have been pregnant again.
    The children all grew up in an orphanage.
    
    5 2
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    December 14, 2020 6:10pm
  - Fletch
    
    I like Joni Mitchell’s musical version –
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbBVJfuzws
    
    2 1
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    December 14, 2020 8:21pm
I remember when

NZ Farmers Weekly 14 Dec:
More than 100 farmers attend meeting at farm of Hamish and Ralph Brown, with Beef + Lamb NZ and Otago Regional Council in attendance.
Points raised at meeting included:
* Claims winter crop re-sowing by November 1st unworkable.
* How to calculate 10-degree slope for winter grazing
* What species constitutes a fodder crop
* The extent of feedlot rules
* Issues with the online slope maps
Many questions went unanswered because of the absence of interpretations and guidance from the Ministry for the Environment (MfE).
Otago Regional Council regulatory manager, Richard Saunders, tried to answer the questions, but noted much about the legislation remains unknown.
Existing use rights apply next year for farmers not altering their wintering practices. Otago’s rules system has allowed operating freedom as long as limits are not breached. This means the impact of the freshwater changes will be greater than for any other NZ province.
The Brown’s use direct drill instead of cultivation and their winter crops were sown by 24 November, the earliest for many years.
However, under the Government’s new rules, for the next four years winter crops must be resown by 1 November, and thereafter by October 1st.
The Council expect resource consents to increase from 400 to 2000 which means recruiting more staff.
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December 14, 2020 11:46am
Maggie Pie

And still clearing the backlog of Tweets that came in over the weekend.
Thort this one from Simon worth sharing with the group…

https://twitter.com/simomjbridges/status/1336899416389603329

(WARNING: Foul language)
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December 14, 2020 11:51am
Fletch

Johns Hopkins, who keep a running record of Covid and the number of deaths, posted an article on November 26th, just gone, showing that overall the number of deaths in the U.S is no different from other years. It was hurriedly taken down after criticism, and excuses were made etc, but you can still read the original article.

Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same.

Briand also noted that 50,000 to 70,000 deaths are seen both before and after COVID-19, indicating that this number of deaths was normal long before COVID-19 emerged. Therefore, according to Briand, not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.

These data analyses suggest that in contrast to most people’s assumptions, the number of deaths by COVID-19 is not alarming. In fact, it has relatively no effect on deaths in the United States.

When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising, as seen in the graph below, this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes.

This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years. Interestingly, as depicted in the table below, the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests, according to Briand, that the COVID-19 death toll is misleading. Briand believes that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19.

The CDC classified all deaths that are related to COVID-19 simply as COVID-19 deaths. Even patients dying from other underlying diseases but are infected with COVID-19 count as COVID-19 deaths. This is likely the main explanation as to why COVID-19 deaths drastically increased while deaths by all other diseases experienced a significant decrease.

“All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers. We found no evidence to the contrary,” Briand concluded.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tnb1a8TXHj_jJCM2BDfGSriUgdn-2gec/view

That sounds like more of the truth, right there, unless we are to believe that heart disease and other illnesses suddenly decreased this year.
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December 14, 2020 12:07pm
- Batman
  
  Yeah and if we nuked the globe and killed every living person, nobody would die from other illnesses and maladies.
  
  This kind of faux reasoning would be hilarious if you idiots didn’t swallow it gladly.
  
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  December 14, 2020 1:44pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The article cited has “Retracted by The Newsletter”.
  
  If information cannot be shared freely… Only robots tolerate not being human.
  
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  December 14, 2020 6:15pm
oldfella

I’m sure Islam is right about women, but I’m sure Harvard is even more correct. They understand these things, which is why humans formerly known as women are now called ‘birthing people’. There. Doesn’t that save a lot of confusion?
https://notthebee.com/article/heres-harvard-medical-school-referring-to-women-as-birthing-people
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December 14, 2020 12:19pm
oldfella

John Minto gets stuck into our Princess. Very unkind….

“Ardern’s happy place is one without vision, courage, guts, determination, direction or even aspiration. Her political life has never involved heavy policy lifting – that’s for others while she trolls the Women’s Weekly covers.”
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/12/14/jacinda-ardern-is-in-her-happy-place/
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December 14, 2020 12:35pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Never ever did I think that I would agree with something Minto said; he perfectly described Ardern in one sentence.
  However, he was true to his Marxist best in the remainder of his rant, anti business and as for those selfish farmers growing food for the world….
  
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  December 14, 2020 2:48pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  I despise Minto but on this it is hard to argue with him
  
  9 0
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  December 14, 2020 2:53pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Two ticks John for good discernment.
  Now the socialist are eating their own.
  
  4 1
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  December 14, 2020 6:17pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Cindy doesn’t need the left to win elections. She needs to stay sweet with the centre + ignorant poor.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:00pm
Fletch

British thriller writer John le Carré has died aged 89.
He finally came in from the cold
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December 14, 2020 12:54pm
Maggie Pie

I’ll tell ya what you need to be careful about on Twitter.
The other day I went to link to an interesting tweet that came thru relating to Jacinda and Trev. Then only to find the Twitterer was already commenting here under there own name, and had posted the exact same info, word for word, about 10 min earlier!

#BUSTERRRD!! 😀
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December 14, 2020 1:02pm
Pharmachick

RIP John le Carré.
14 1
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December 14, 2020 1:04pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Terrific writer.
  
  8 1
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  December 14, 2020 1:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Some great books. One or two of them had subterfuge-infused subterfuge which, I confess, had me struggling with who was the hero and who was the villain. Then, having latched onto the piece of wisdom, they often changed sides. RIP.
  
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  December 14, 2020 4:11pm
I remember when

If “Islam is Right about Women” is From the Ultra Right –
Who is going to explain that it is an insult to the members?
3 2
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December 14, 2020 1:10pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Islam has strict rules about women and men’s authority over them. I believe these are from the Koran.
  
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  December 14, 2020 6:20pm
Tony Stuart

Remember how Green MP wrongly accused Sir Robert Jones of being anti-immigrant in his maiden speech last week?

Sir Robert has responded 😀

https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/12/14/a-horrible-green-party-little-turd/
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December 14, 2020 1:15pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Heh, “ ghastly little pink clad ponce”. Bob nails it.
  
  24 2
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  December 14, 2020 1:23pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Dear,
  
  Is Golriz Gharhaman going to support her ignorant colleague…..or is she going to educate herself about the support Bob Jones has been giving to refugees/new immigrants?
  
  23 1
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  December 14, 2020 1:48pm
  - Swifty
    
    A good question.
    
    8 1
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    December 14, 2020 1:58pm
- Swifty
  
  Excellent. Good on Bob.
  
  9 2
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  December 14, 2020 1:58pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Lunch with Ricardo 😛
  
  https://reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/5u073v/pancho_villa/
  
  4 4
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  December 14, 2020 1:59pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  wow. gold. Why can’t this guy do the right thing and issue a statement: “I was mistaken about Bob Jones. I withdraw all my comments and apologise.” How hard is that? We have all had to do it on some occasions in life.
  
  14 2
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  December 14, 2020 2:12pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We have all had to do it on some occasions in life
    
    I’m beginning to notice quite a few folks who will never say Sorry when they are demonstrably wrong.
    
    Must be damn difficult for them being so perfect every day of their life.
    
    12 2
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    December 14, 2020 2:57pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Sir Robert absolutely nails the little sniveller.
  A great read.
  
  15 3
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  December 14, 2020 3:31pm
WaynelSexton

Trump’s final warning.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338254785666043908

The left is dumb enough to think Trump is bluffing. The Insurrection Act gets more likely by the day.
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December 14, 2020 1:45pm
- Batman
  
  Good luck, you band of secessionist fascists.
  
  The military will not be with you and your proud boy groupies
  
  8 10
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  December 14, 2020 2:44pm
  - WaynelSexton
    
    Trump created his own military unit, it’s called Space Force.
    Remember the Insurrection Act is only being considered because SCOTUS failed to do its job. Trump is the last line of defense to uphold the constitution.
    
    2 6
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    December 14, 2020 3:51pm
    - Batman
      
      What the hell has Space Force got to do with anything? And it is not a military unit, it is a full branch of the armed forces. Under control of its own leadership, which takes its oath to the constitution rather more seriously than the Mango Baby.
      
      Scotus did its job, the only reason you’re upset is because you’ve become an undemocratic fascist fan in the hysterical worship of Trump.
      
      Upholding the constitution means resisting meritless suits based on creative accounting and unfounded claims from conspiracy nuts.
      
      Look, even the National Review is saying this whole thing is a waste of time:
      
      https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/a-stunning-passage-from-the-latest-court-rejection-of-team-trump/
      
      “The rationalization behind that stunt was that the president has been denied his day in court. But every time a court offers him an opportunity to establish by proof what he is promoting by Twitter, Team Trump folds. Why is that?”
      
      5 5
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      December 14, 2020 4:48pm
      - WaynelSexton
        
        Look what the cuckservative gatekeepers are saying…. No thank you.
        If you want to keep going with the silly narrative that no fraud happen, then you do that. Just don’t be surprised when Trump doesn’t fold.
        
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        December 14, 2020 5:03pm
      - Batman
        
        Ahhhh yes, a classic insult there. Well done.
        
        4 1
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        December 14, 2020 8:17pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        SCOTUS opted out. That leaves them free to continue presently as the Supreme Court. POTUS has the duty and implied power to uphold the fabric of the Republic. So he rules in the topmost serious political situations and takes the consequences. I think the Court was wise to pass the parcel. The SC did not have to review the detailed evidence. There may not be evidence of fraud per se, that requires proof of intent, a different legal beast entirely. The consequences of deceit, do require an answer without which no side can agree to cease the hostilities.
        
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        December 14, 2020 6:40pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Oh dear. You really do write some nonsense, Kev. Where do you get these extremely weird ideas from?
        
        3 2
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        December 14, 2020 7:29pm
  - Juliet2554
    
    why dont you mention ANTIFA? They are domestic terrorists.
    
    6 4
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    December 14, 2020 4:05pm
    - Batman
      
      Can you point to an actual Antifa terrorist attack?
      
      They are a boogie man made up from a small bunch of activists who have no structure and no leadership.
      
      Meanwhile, proud boys thugs are channeling their anger from not enough masturbation and attacking churches in DC.
      
      6 11
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      December 14, 2020 4:42pm
Benedict Yu

This case was well before my time in New Zealand but it was interesting so I looked into it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123694269/parole-board-asks-for-urgency-over-scott-watson

It seems to me a not safe verdict. He may well have killed them but the physical evidence seems limited to a strand of hair from the girl. If he is innocent, he has paid a high price.
4 5
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December 14, 2020 2:02pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Benedict,
  
  please don’t. Its right up there with Bain and Lundy for forming long threads of conspiracy theories, nonsense, pseudo-science, shrieking etc
  
  8 2
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  December 14, 2020 2:53pm
- Ian Boag
  
  The strand of hair did not have a root, so the DNA test was less certain. Something like 1 in 30,000 rather than the usual 1 in 30 gazillion … and the hair was found on a second or third pass through things.
  
  5 1
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  December 14, 2020 3:28pm
graham

Damn … when a 17-year-old girl sees right through the Prime Minister’s frowny face, hand-wringing, heartfelt cry of, “It’s an EMERGENCY, I tell you … a CLIMATE EMERGENCY” …

… and calls BS on it in front of the world.

Greta Thunberg has called Ardern’s declaration “virtue signalling with little substance.” I’d say she’s nailed it.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/james-shaw-responds-after-greta-thunberg-calls-out-nz-over-lack-of-climate-change-action/O2IQVQ6QZ2O7OLYIKLI5FAAR3I/
11 2
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December 14, 2020 2:02pm
- greybeard
  
  What a choice: to agree with Greta or to agree with Jacinda.
  
  8 1
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  December 14, 2020 3:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Go with Greta.. she’s young and hangs out with the cool kids on the International Scene.
    
    Jacinda is a middle-aged matron and holidays in Gisborne.
    
    8 4
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    December 14, 2020 3:57pm
- mandk
  
  Grumpy face trumps frowny face.
  
  7 1
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  December 14, 2020 4:24pm
Benedict Yu

Just in case you wondering. Reason I am so active on Kiwiblog is am between jobs. 🙂
12 3
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December 14, 2020 2:13pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Hope you turn up something soon. I’m on here less often now as I now have a job… much to mrs kk’s delight.
  
  9 2
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  December 14, 2020 4:01pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Me too.
  
  4 1
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  December 14, 2020 6:42pm
Fletch

Brennan’s handwritten notes just been released and declassified, and they show that the Russians knew that Hillary’s Russian-collusion narrative was a smear. Even Obama was briefed on it and knew. Hell, the whole US intelligence community knew, but they went along with it anyway.

Top U.S. intelligence officials were so concerned heading into the 2016 election that the Russians were aware of and potentially manipulating Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s plans to smear Donald Trump as a Russian agent that they personally briefed President Barack Obama on the matter, newly declassified Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) documents show. CIA officials also requested that the FBI investigate Russian knowledge of the Clinton campaign’s collusion smear operation.

Newly declassified handwritten notes from former CIA Director John Brennan show that the U.S. intelligence community knew in 2016 that Russian intelligence was actively monitoring, and potentially injecting disinformation into, Clinton’s anti-Trump collusion narrative. The intelligence concerning Russia’s knowledge of Clinton’s campaign plans was so concerning to Brennan and other national security officials that they personally informed Obama of the matter in the Oval Office in the summer of 2016. The handwritten notes from Brennan were declassified by Director of National Intelligence (DNI) John Ratcliffe and provided to Congress on Tuesday afternoon.

According to the declassified notes, Brennan and the U.S. intelligence community knew months prior to the 2016 election that the collusion smear was the result of a campaign operation hatched by the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

“We’re getting additional insight into Russian activites from [REDACTED],” Brennan’s handwritten notes state. “Cite alleged approval by Hillary Clinton–on 26 July–of a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisers to villify [sic] Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by the Russian security services.”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifies-handwritten-notes-from-john-brennan-2016-cia-referral-on-clinton-campaigns-collusion-operation/

We knew it all along, of course. The whole collusion thing was a set up by Hillary and the Dems, and they all knew it. Hillary, Obama, Brennan, et al should all be in prison for putting the country through years of investigations into what they knew was fake. It was a coup attempt.
10 9
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December 14, 2020 2:21pm
- Batman
  
  Hahahaha you should be the next spy thriller writer… I hear a spot has sadly opened up today
  
  7 14
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  December 14, 2020 2:46pm
  - Fletch
    
    Um, these are Brennan’s own notes.
    
    6 6
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    December 14, 2020 4:05pm
    - Batman
      
      Via Russian intelligence.
      
      Come on Fletch, I know you’re reaching but this is really poor.
      
      7 8
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      December 14, 2020 4:42pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        He has very little left but his beliefs.
        
        3 3
        Report
        December 14, 2020 7:16pm
Swifty

Looks like H1 and H2 were busy on the phones over the weekend:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/speaker-trevor-mallard-set-to-be-questioned-over-costly-legal-dispute-on-wednesday/I6BINMAECTNCCGSEDAAIZE5T64/

Trev must be spewing.
12 2
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December 14, 2020 2:39pm
- Swifty
  
  Questions for Trev on Wednesday:
  
  1. Just what did he mean when he said to David Seymour “the member’s time is up in more ways than one…”
  
  2. What did he wish David Seymour to infer from that statement?
  
  3. How does he think it appropriate for New Zealand’s Parliamentary Speaker to say “the member’s time is up in more ways than one…” to a member who has raised issues of his performance and behaviour?
  
  4. What message does that send to that member and all members about members questioning the Speaker’s performance or behaviour?
  
  5. Would he agree that his statement would have a chilling effect on members questioning the Speaker’s performance or behaviour in future? If not, why not?
  
  6. In moving to change Parliament’s rules on the taxpayer meeting the costs of settling libel actions did he know would likely personally benefit from the change?
  
  7. What did he know and when did he know it?
  
  8. What drove his move to change Parliament’s rules on the taxpayer meeting the costs of settling libel actions and when?
  
  9. What discussions did he have with anyone representing NZ’s Labour Party in seeking support for these changes?
  
  And a personal one from me;
  
  10. Will he voluntarily elect to repay the hard-pressed NZ taxpayer as, let’s face it, it was purely his great gob that got himself into this mess in the first place?
  
  12 1
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  December 14, 2020 4:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He will not repay anything. Remember, this is Trade Me Trev, selling corporate sponsor tickets online.
    The man is a fucking leech
    
    14 4
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    December 14, 2020 5:14pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I can’t believe the 2 Hs would let their good mate Trev down.
  
  I reckon they’ve hatched up “a cunning plan”
  or
  offered Trev a position in The Helen Clark Foundation
  
  https://helenclark.foundation/
  
  7 3
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  December 14, 2020 5:45pm
Bobba Fret

From the NZ Herald:
“Ardern said Speaker Trevor Mallard should stay in the role was because while he made a mistake, he was still the best person for the job.”

Good to know he is the “best” person……imagine what the others would be like!
21 2
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December 14, 2020 2:39pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  That job being having zero integrity and protecting Jacinda.
  
  10 2
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  December 14, 2020 3:45pm
SmokerGuy

The PM refusing to answer questions on Ihumātao. Just holding out so it can be buried over Xmas without any scrutiny from the media or opposition. What a cynical prime minister we have. Part of me hopes protests and occupations erupt all over the country to teach NZ a lesson.
16 0
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December 14, 2020 2:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I hoping for a private prosecution.
  
  2 3
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  December 14, 2020 6:44pm
Pharmachick

UPDATE on FDA Vaccine Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) Vote from Friday:

The original trial had inclusion criteria down to age 16, but there were vanishingly few 16 and 17 year olds (statistically unreliable). The paediatricians on the advisory board objected to mass immunization down to 16, so the committee chair forced the vote.

The 4 nays were against giving the vaccine under 18 years, the abstention was also against, but did not want to vote against the EUA proposal because it would delay rolling out the vaccine to everybody. FYI: there is a trial initiated currently in 12-15 year olds. Nada under 12 years right now.

The committee was also hesitant because everything they saw was positive, insofar as it went; but they felt like there was not enough information in totality (not just about kids, but in totality).
8 1
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December 14, 2020 3:04pm
Maggie Pie

‘Strawberry’s look real cheap at the moment.
Countdown had 2 punnets for $4.
Bort 12 with the intention of freezing them.
Every box was soft and squishy at the bottom.
I’m taking them back up there shortly to tell them what they can do with them.

#checkB4ubuy
7 6
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December 14, 2020 3:14pm
- mandk
  
  Pak-n-Save had 3 punnets for $5 at the weekend.
  Very few mushy ones either.
  
  5 0
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  December 14, 2020 4:22pm
- Dougal10
  
  Thats what happens when have to use local labour . They hide their mistakes at the bottom of the punnet
  
  6 0
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  December 14, 2020 4:35pm
- Fletch
  
  So you took a punt on the punnet…
  
  4 0
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  December 14, 2020 5:07pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I grow my own.
    On another planet compared to what you get at the supermarket.
    
    4 0
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    December 14, 2020 9:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hey Mike, something for you to digest. Unknown authors so you can call it fake news if you like. I don’t care sonny.
For those who don’t get it! This was copied from an unknown political author, but it makes some strong statements that have already happened, is happening and probably will happen.
Now you understand why there was never any action against the Clintons or Obama, how they destroyed emails and evidence and phones and servers, how they spied and wiretapped, how they lied to FISA, had conversations on the tarmac, sent emails to cover their asses after key meetings, how Comey and Brennan and Clapper never were brought to any justice, how the FBI and CIA lied, how the Steele Dossier was passed along, how phones got factory reset, how leak after leak to an accomplice media went unchecked, why George Soros is always in the shadows, why Romney and Paul and Bush and McCain were all involved, why they screamed Russia and pushed a sham impeachment, why no one ever goes to jail, why no one is ever charged, why nothing ever happens. Why there was no wrongdoing in the FISA warrants, why the Durham report was delayed. Why Hunter will walk scott free. Why the FBI sat on the laptop. Why the Biden’s connection to China was overlooked as was unleashed the perfect weapon, a virus that could be weaponized politically to bring down the greatest ever economy and usher in unverifiable mail in voting. Why the media is 24/7 propaganda and lies, why up is down and down is up, right is wrong and wrong is right. Why social media silences the First Amendment and speaks over the President of the United States.
This has been the plan by the Deep State all along. They didn’t expect Trump to win in 2016. He messed up their plans. Delayed it a little. They weren’t about to let it happen again. Covid was weaponized, Governors helped shut down their states, the media helped shame and kill the economy, and the super lucky unverifiable mail in ballots were just the trick to make sure the career politician allegedly with hands in Chinese payrolls that couldn’t finish a sentence or collect a crowd, miraculously became the most popular vote recipient of all time.
You have just witnessed a coup, the overthrow of the US free election system, the end of our constitutional republic, and the merge of capitalism into the slide toward socialism. What will happen next? Expect the borders to open up. Increased immigration. Expect agencies like CBP and INS and Homeland Security to be muzzled or even deleted. Law enforcement will see continued defunding. The electoral college will be gone. History erased. Two Supreme Court Justices might be removed. The Supreme Court will be packed. Your 2nd Amendment will be attacked. If you have a manufacturing job or oil industry job, get ready. If you run a business, brace for impact. Maybe you’ll be on the hook for slavery reparations, or have your suburbs turned into Section 8 housing. Your taxes are gonna go up, and businesses will pay more.
I could go on and on. There is no real recovery from this. The elections from here on will be decided by New York City, Chicago, and California. The Republic will be dead. Mob rule and appeasement will run rampant. The candidate who offers the most from the Treasury will get the most votes. But the votes voted won’t matter, just the ones received and counted. That precedent has been set.
“Benjamin Franklin was walking out of Independence Hall after the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when someone shouted out, ‘Doctor, what have we got? A republic or a monarchy?’”
Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.”
Ladies and gentlemen, you will now lose your Republic. You turned from God. You turned from family. You turned from country. You embraced degeneracy culture. You celebrated and looked to fools. You worshipped yourselves selfishly as you took for granted what men died to give you. You disregarded history and all it teaches. On your watch, America just died a little. It’s likely she’ll never be the same again.
Some of you have no idea what you’ve done. Sadly, some of you did.
Ain’t that the truth!! Amen and Amen!
11 9
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December 14, 2020 3:47pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s not ‘fake news’. That whiny rant was no doubt sincerely meant by the kook who penned it. Sadly, those crank ideas had the ring of truth for him, as they still do for millions of other deluded Trumpistas, now mourning the downfall of their orange idol.
  
  6 14
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  December 14, 2020 3:52pm
  - Fletch
    
    Remember this post in about a year if Biden gets elected. I reckon the U.S will be a shambles – many times worse off than it is now. Nothing good can come of a Biden term. I don’t see he has any worthy plans to prosper America. None of them do. They will raise taxes, open the border, hamstring the police, destroy the oil industry and jobs.
    
    8 4
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    December 14, 2020 5:05pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There are many ‘whys’ you could respond to Mike.
    Come on, wakey wakey, just try your favorite one. We will wait or see you Friday when you come out of the basement of Fraser House
    
    9 7
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    December 14, 2020 5:18pm
- SB2
  
  “.You have just witnessed a coup, the overthrow of the US free election system, the end of our constitutional republic, and the merge of capitalism into the slide toward socialism… ”
  
  Only in the minds of serously deluded Trump disciples.
  
  3 7
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  December 14, 2020 5:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden – not doing business with Americans in China, or Chinese in America. He was dealing direct with the Chinese Govt. Corrupt to the core and so blatantly open about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VMU040f_W8&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1nBd85jDN4PlDo-QGGTY2STxDEPC_gDKdHMWnw-07FK4dFV0eaWwU9lgc
14 8
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December 14, 2020 4:05pm
- SB2
  
  Trump is pushing a baseless conspiracy about the Bidens and China.
  
  Here’s what we know.
  There’s no evidence of wrongdoing on behalf of either the former vice president or his son, in China or elsewhere.
  
  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/trump-pushing-baseless-conspiracy-about-bidens-china-here-s-what-n1062551
  
  OAN too !
  
  3 11
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  December 14, 2020 5:35pm
  - Fletch
    
    Oh please. Of course there is. It’s also WAY more evidence than the Democrats had to try and impeach Trump. We have the emails on Hunter Biden’s laptop (and yes, it’s his). We have two material former partners of Hunter Biden who supplied emails, texts, and WhatsApp messaging. Tony Bobulinski met with Joe Biden TWICE and Hunter Biden and Jim Biden multiple times and he says they wanted him to arrange the deals. SO don’t tell me there is no evidence. Joe is up to his eyeballs in it. The whole damn family should be in prison for exploiting Joe’s then position as Vice President for monetary gain by selling access to the Chinese.
    
    4 2
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    December 14, 2020 9:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Pressure is building up on the PM about getting some travel bubbles up and running…

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2012/S00082/nz-dragging-chain-on-aussie-travel-bubble.htm

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2012/S00081/what-the-bloody-hell-are-you-waiting-for.htm
15 2
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December 14, 2020 4:33pm
- SB2
  
  Patience. Its coming earlier than you think,
  
  “New Zealand travel bubble with Australia coming in early 2021, NZ PM confirms”
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealand-travel-bubble-with-australia-coming-in-early-2021-nz-pm-confirms-20201214-p56na6.html
  
  The Scoop link is a National Party Press release. Sigh!
  
  0 8
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  December 14, 2020 5:26pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Don’t you like the National Party or something?
    
    4 0
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    December 14, 2020 9:49pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @SB2
    
    I provided 2 Scoop links…
    How about checking out the second one?
    It’s not a National Party Press Release.
    
    3 1
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    December 14, 2020 10:02pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Expect the incremental, measured return of our freedoms to match times when Ardern’s popularity or her government’s mess needs some cover. We are a nation of feckless fools, played and manipulated.
  
  6 1
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  December 14, 2020 9:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wonder when we can have a travel bubble with Taiwan.

You know, that country that went hard and early and has a Covid-19 incidence rate one tenth the size of NZ.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext
4 1
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December 14, 2020 9:23pm
Fletch

Mark Levin tells it like it is re: the Biden crime family…

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338324103401529344
4 2
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December 14, 2020 9:26pm
- Fletch
  
  The whole show –
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrvPcjH7t4
  
  3 2
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  December 14, 2020 9:52pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Poor Fletch…
    
    0 2
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    December 15, 2020 6:47am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Been removed, I wonder why?
    
    0 0
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    December 15, 2020 9:37am

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